Latest / Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy / 445 | When Sexualized Play Challenges Your CCPT Adherence

Transcript

445 | When Sexualized Play Challenges Your CCPT Adherence · Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy

0:00
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
0:03
Brenna Hicks,
0:04
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
0:08
Hi,
0:08
I'm Dr.
0:09
Brenna Hicks,
0:09
The Kid Counselor.
0:10
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
0:12
a master class in child-centered play therapy
0:15
and practical support and application for your
0:17
work with children and their families.
0:19
In today's episode,
0:20
I'm answering a question from Nicole
0:23
about
0:24
play that
0:25
was a little bit uncomfortable in the playroom.
0:27
And how to handle that moving forward.
0:30
So,
0:30
Nicole,
0:30
I appreciate the email.
0:32
Want to let you all know that
0:35
I know I announced on Tuesday that we have some things happening in 2027.
0:40
I'm really excited about one development,
0:43
which is that we're going to have new coaching options.
0:46
So,
0:47
just wanna make you all aware,
0:48
I'm kind of teasing it now.
0:49
It won't start till January,
0:51
but there will be a different path on coaching
0:54
and different options available.
0:56
So,
0:57
if you've been considering coaching or wanna go further than you already have maybe
1:02
We're gonna have some announcements to make in the next couple of months,
1:04
so I'm excited about that.
1:05
Go to playtherapynow.com and sign up for the newsletter
1:07
to make sure that you stay in the know.
1:10
All right,
1:10
so let me read parts of Nicole's email and then we will tackle this together.
1:15
I have a seven year old female that I've been working with for a year.
1:19
Since we've started working together,
1:20
her play has always included some romantic relationship themes and curiosity,
1:24
for example,
1:25
undressing Barbie dolls,
1:26
though not in every session.
1:28
However,
1:29
over the past 1 to 2 months,
1:30
her play has become increasingly relationship focused and overtly sexual.
1:35
The client has played and verbalized all showering together,
1:38
kissing,
1:38
and sitting on each other's laps.
1:40
She has played in verbalized adult scenarios such as cheating,
1:43
stealing someone's boyfriend,
1:45
and breaking up and getting back together.
1:47
Most recently,
1:49
we have a Mibi doll in our playroom.
1:51
She told me that Mibi was her boyfriend
1:53
and started kissing it in a rather suggestive manner.
1:55
I knew I needed to allow her to
1:57
continue this play to investigate possible mistreatment,
2:00
but I felt extremely uncomfortable doing so.
2:02
For the record,
2:03
I do not suspect any sexual abuse.
2:06
This went on for a few minutes,
2:07
and then I attempted to set a limit about that
2:09
being something she can do at home in private.
2:12
She then tried to hide with the me behind a bookshelf and told me to turn around.
2:16
I said something to the effect of that being enough
2:18
and moved the bookshelf away from her to redirect her play.
2:22
There's a lot here to unpack for me.
2:24
On one hand,
2:24
I was glad she felt comfortable enough to engage in
2:27
this kind of vulnerable play in front of me.
2:29
On the other hand,
2:30
CCPT completely went out the window because I had no idea what to do,
2:34
and my discomfort clouded my judgment.
2:36
For additional context,
2:37
the client had previously struggled with conduct at school,
2:40
so her mother decided to place her in a
2:42
Christian all-girl homeschool co op for the year.
2:45
Client's mother is also a new Christian,
2:47
and they participate in church and Bible study.
2:49
I'm positive that she is not permitted to
2:51
exhibit this kind of behavior anywhere else,
2:53
and I'm sure there's a lot of confusion for this client given these life changes.
2:57
I'm wondering how you would have handled this
2:59
and how I should address it going forward.
3:01
All right.
3:02
So,
3:02
yes,
3:03
there is a lot to unpack here,
3:04
Nicole.
3:05
I'm glad you emailed.
3:07
So,
3:08
let's start with
3:09
the fact that this play,
3:11
her play has always included
3:13
Some kind of
3:14
relationship or romantic kind of
3:16
notes.
3:17
OK,
3:17
so we know there's been an undercurrent of this.
3:20
We know that this is probably something that has been
3:24
pretty consistent.
3:26
There's maybe been an uptick in the last two months,
3:29
but you've said from the beginning,
3:31
it has always included something along these lines.
3:34
So that helps us have context.
3:36
In other words,
3:37
if this came up out of the blue and you'd never seen any
3:41
glimpse of this in a year,
3:43
that would be far more concerning and or alarming
3:47
than a child that has always been playing kinds of these kinds of things out,
3:51
and then it just becomes a little bit more severe or pronounced
3:55
because that means that this has been an undercurrent
3:58
for a year.
3:59
Therefore,
4:00
it's not a huge shock that it's going to uptick a smidge
4:04
as she gets further into her work
4:06
or as she feels that she can be more vulnerable
4:09
or as she needs to process this at a deeper level.
4:13
So I think it's actually a positive thing
4:15
that you've seen
4:16
evidences of this throughout your time in working with her.
4:20
So
4:22
The fact that she has played out showering,
4:23
kissing,
4:24
and sitting on each other's laps,
4:26
cheating,
4:26
stealing someone's boyfriend,
4:27
breaking up,
4:28
getting back together,
4:29
these are all things that
4:32
a seven year old would be aware of
4:34
in certain
4:36
environments.
4:37
In other words,
4:39
Some kids would have no idea about that at 7,
4:41
others would.
4:43
Based on
4:44
shows,
4:46
based on movies,
4:47
based on
4:49
adult conversations,
4:50
based on paying attention,
4:51
based on the environment,
4:53
based on who they've spent time around.
4:56
So,
4:57
it's not,
4:58
although
4:59
not especially common,
5:01
it's not unheard of that a seven year old would be aware of these kinds of things.
5:06
And the fact that you don't suspect sexual abuse.
5:10
Then I suspect that this is exposure
5:13
and knowledge.
5:14
So what do we make of that?
5:16
When a child has been exposed to something or has knowledge of something,
5:20
but they're too young
5:21
to process it,
5:22
and she would fall into this category,
5:24
she's 7.
5:25
So she's too young to process this fully,
5:27
but she knows of it.
5:29
She's seen it,
5:30
she's witnessed it,
5:31
she's watched it,
5:32
something.
5:33
So therefore,
5:35
She's gonna have to make sense of it in her play.
5:38
And the only way you can make sense of it
5:40
is through experiencing
5:42
the play.
5:44
So she's bringing this in for a reason.
5:45
We have to remember.
5:47
And look,
5:47
especially when we're uncomfortable,
5:49
it isn't easy.
5:50
But we have to remember that what a kid brings up in their play,
5:54
verbally and through their actions,
5:57
there's significance there,
5:58
always.
5:59
So the fact that she's bringing this up,
6:01
the fact that this has become more pronounced,
6:03
the fact that
6:04
in the last couple of months there's been
6:07
a swing toward higher levels of severity with this,
6:10
she's working through something.
6:12
I suspect it's confusion.
6:14
She has no personal frame of reference for this,
6:16
so she's trying to put herself in a first person role
6:19
so she can make sense of this.
6:21
What does this feel like?
6:22
What is this?
6:22
How do I think about this?
6:24
How do I
6:25
behave?
6:25
How do I understand what this is like?
6:28
She's trying to
6:29
work out some of the unknown for herself.
6:32
So that's very common.
6:34
Now,
6:34
I think it's interesting.
6:36
I'm gonna
6:37
comment on one of the sentences that you wrote to me.
6:39
I knew I needed to allow her to continue this play.
6:43
If you would have stopped there.
6:46
I would say
6:48
We trust the child,
6:49
we trust the child,
6:49
we trust the process,
6:50
we trust the process,
6:50
we trust the model.
6:52
We know we always have to allow the child to continue play.
6:57
However,
6:57
then you added to investigate possible mistreatment.
7:01
OK,
7:01
so now
7:02
we're in a little bit of a pickle here
7:04
because that's not the reason why we would allow the play to continue.
7:09
We would allow the play to continue because it doesn't warrant a limit.
7:13
What are the 3 reasons why we set limits?
7:18
Thank y'all that are screaming at me.
7:20
I have to be safe,
7:20
you have to be safe.
7:21
Nothing can be broken or damaged on purpose.
7:23
OK,
7:24
she was safe,
7:24
you were safe,
7:25
nothing was getting broken.
7:27
That behavior does not warrant a limit.
7:29
So we're absolutely going to allow the play to continue,
7:32
not because we're investigating possible mistreatment.
7:35
But because we trust the child and the process and the process and the model of CCPT.
7:40
So I understand that you were going,
7:42
oh gosh,
7:43
I wonder if there's something more going on here,
7:45
which we all would be,
7:46
but that's not the reason why we allow the play to continue.
7:49
We allow the play to continue because it needs to continue.
7:53
So we always need to make sure that we're not
7:55
making decisions that are outside of the model and or
7:58
that are agenda driven.
8:01
And that's something that we have to keep in check for ourselves all the time,
8:04
forever.
8:05
It's not a you conquer it once and you're done.
8:07
This is something that we fight against the rest of our career.
8:11
And obviously you were extremely uncomfortable.
8:13
I think many of us would have been.
8:16
So,
8:16
after this goes on for a few minutes,
8:18
you attempted to set a limit.
8:20
OK,
8:20
so this is where you,
8:22
and you acknowledged it,
8:22
you said CCPTT went completely out the window.
8:25
OK,
8:26
so this is where your own discomfort,
8:27
you,
8:28
you already understand this.
8:29
You already
8:30
confessed it,
8:30
I suppose.
8:31
Jonathan,
8:32
here's your nod,
8:33
CCPT confessional.
8:34
So,
8:36
when
8:36
we go,
8:37
man,
8:37
I am really uncomfortable here.
8:40
We often will try to get ourselves out of our own discomfort.
8:44
Which often means we set limits,
8:46
we redirect,
8:47
we drift,
8:48
we drift,
8:49
we deviate
8:50
because staying CCPT is too uncomfortable.
8:53
So you set a limit,
8:55
but
8:56
it wasn't warranted.
8:58
So that's where
9:00
moving forward,
9:01
you would understand,
9:02
I don't set a limit on behavior like this
9:04
unless it
9:05
is required because of those three questions that we ask ourselves.
9:09
And then you said
9:11
that's something that she can do at home in private.
9:14
Well,
9:16
Based on what you said later in the email,
9:17
I don't think it's something that she can do at home in private.
9:20
That's why she's doing it with you in the playroom.
9:23
Second of all,
9:25
if we've given freedom and autonomy to children in the playroom.
9:29
And we know that they're gonna work through what they
9:30
need to work through what they need to work through.
9:33
She's bringing it up because she has to,
9:35
with you.
9:36
Therapeutic relationship,
9:38
therapeutic environment.
9:39
Even if the home environment would allow for her to do that,
9:43
which it sounds like it probably wouldn't,
9:45
but even if she could do that at home,
9:46
she likely wouldn't.
9:48
Because it's not a therapeutic relationship in a therapeutic environment.
9:51
So we have to honor the fact
9:53
that
9:54
when we give kids freedom and we say you get to choose what you do,
9:57
unless it requires a limit,
9:59
we know that it's work that they need to do.
10:01
So,
10:02
We wouldn't want to set a limit that she can do that at home.
10:06
We
10:07
would understand that she has to do it with us.
10:10
And that's probably why she fought you on that.
10:13
That's why she bucked a little bit because
10:15
she's like,
10:15
no,
10:16
no,
10:16
no,
10:16
I need to do this here.
10:17
So then she goes and hides behind the bookshelf.
10:20
Because you were putting an unnecessary limit,
10:22
she knew it.
10:23
And so she doesn't like
10:25
that notion.
10:25
So she's going to not comply.
10:28
And then at that point,
10:29
you
10:30
said,
10:31
OK,
10:31
no more,
10:32
that's enough,
10:32
whatever your words were,
10:33
and then you moved the bookshelf.
10:35
All right.
10:36
So you essentially then took over and said,
10:39
my agenda,
10:40
not yours.
10:41
I'm not going to tolerate this.
10:42
I'm not going to accept this,
10:44
so
10:45
you can't do it anymore.
10:47
And that's sometimes how
10:49
things end when we deviate.
10:52
So,
10:53
it's not a permanent issue.
10:54
I don't think it created a rupture.
10:57
I'm not sure that she's going to feel
10:59
comfortable bringing that kind of play up again,
11:01
maybe ever or at least for a while.
11:04
But it didn't cause a rupture in the relationship,
11:06
so we know that we can recover from something like that.
11:10
But we have to understand what comes up for us.
11:12
I,
11:12
I'm,
11:12
I preach this all the time.
11:14
I literally feel like I'm a broken record,
11:15
but
11:16
this is why we do our own work to do this work.
11:19
This is why we dive into our own junk.
11:21
This is why we dive into our own junk.
11:21
This is why we have to recognize what comes up for us and why.
11:25
And we have to recognize what comes up for us
11:25
and why.
11:25
And we have to examine and we have to evaluate
11:27
and we have to dive deeply within ourselves and go,
11:29
OK,
11:30
why did that bother me?
11:31
Why did that make me feel uncomfortable?
11:33
Why did I feel the need to intervene?
11:35
Why did I ask a question there?
11:37
Like,
11:37
anytime we deviate,
11:39
it's not,
11:39
oh shoot,
11:40
I'm a terrible CCPT and I really screwed up.
11:43
We say,
11:44
all right,
11:44
what,
11:45
what happened?
11:46
Why,
11:47
why did that
11:48
go the way it did?
11:49
Why did I say that?
11:50
Why did I do that?
11:51
Why did I do that?
11:51
Why did I feel that?
11:52
What was going on for me?
11:53
What was that bringing up?
11:54
What is the work that I need to
11:56
tackle here?
11:57
What is unfinished that's
11:59
bubbling up right now as a result of this?
12:01
This work is going to jerk the rug out from underneath you.
12:05
If you haven't done your own work.
12:07
So,
12:08
I'm,
12:08
I'm kind of imploring at this point.
12:11
Every single one of us
12:12
needs to be able to self-examine
12:14
and have some introspection and go through what's going on and go,
12:18
all right,
12:19
where is this coming from?
12:20
I had a therapist on the collective call a while back now.
12:24
She said she
12:25
was really,
12:25
really having a hard time with this
12:27
female client.
12:29
And she said,
12:30
Brenna,
12:30
I don't know.
12:31
I,
12:31
I could feel that I was not able to accept her.
12:31
I could feel that I was not able to accept her.
12:34
I could feel that I was not able to remain congruent.
12:36
I could feel that I wasn't CCPT and I was like,
12:39
gosh,
12:39
what's going on?
12:40
And she went home
12:42
and she said after two hours of processing it at home after work by herself.
12:48
She realized it's because of
12:50
her childhood.
12:52
And her relationship with her family and things that happened
12:55
and how she was treated and things that were said
12:57
and related to her sisters and her parents and
13:00
And she had to like dive into this and go,
13:03
why in the world did that bother me so much?
13:06
These are the things that we have to tackle to do this work.
13:09
So,
13:09
Nicole,
13:10
please don't feel guilty or ashamed or beat yourself up.
13:13
This is a learning opportunity for sure.
13:14
It's also an opportunity for you to go,
13:17
OK,
13:17
so why,
13:19
why wasn't I able to handle that?
13:21
And then you move the needle.
13:23
As you dive in and you figure stuff out,
13:24
you're able to move the needle and you can tolerate
13:27
things more and you do know how to remain adherent
13:29
in those tough moments.
13:32
And so,
13:33
I agree.
13:34
I am also glad that she felt comfortable enough to dive into that.
13:38
That means that you have relationship established.
13:40
That means that you have rapport and trust,
13:42
that she feels that she can be vulnerable.
13:45
So,
13:45
those are really
13:47
crucial components
13:48
of why she's playing this out.
13:50
And then you also,
13:51
I think,
13:52
have your finger on the pulse of the other component.
13:54
She's probably not able to exhibit these behaviors anywhere else.
13:58
And with the changes of all of a sudden,
14:00
I don't go to a regular school anymore.
14:02
Now I'm only around girls.
14:03
Now I'm only around girls.
14:04
Now I have a mom who's probably going to be pretty restrictive
14:09
with
14:09
what is permitted in the home because of the,
14:12
the change in faith and that dynamic.
14:15
So,
14:15
we have all of these components now working in
14:19
and she's probably like,
14:20
gosh,
14:20
I just need to sort through this.
14:23
And so these are the moments where we go,
14:26
I don't always need to understand.
14:26
I don't always need to understand.
14:28
I don't always need to enjoy it.
14:30
I don't always need to be able to make sense of something,
14:33
but I'm able to trust
14:35
and rest
14:36
and have peace in the fact that the child knows what they need to do
14:40
and I need to stay out of the way.
14:42
That's always our challenge.
14:44
We trust the child
14:46
and stay out of their way.
14:48
And when she works through this stuff in the playroom,
14:52
she'll be more adjusted in every other environment.
14:55
When she works through this stuff in the playroom,
14:57
she won't behave in
15:00
Self-defeating or maladaptive ways outside of the playroom.
15:03
All of this is tied together.
15:05
This is practice ground.
15:07
When kids come in and play with us,
15:08
they're practicing
15:10
and sorting stuff out
15:11
so that they can be a better version of themselves.
15:15
And kids know that things aren't appropriate in every environment.
15:18
She knows that she probably wouldn't act like that at school.
15:20
She probably wouldn't act like that at home,
15:22
but it's something that she needs to process.
15:24
So she,
15:25
she's gonna wanna act like that in the playroom.
15:27
And that's what we're trying to make sure that we remain open to
15:30
and that we trust the model
15:32
as we're a little bit uncomfortable.
15:34
So,
15:34
Nicole,
15:35
thank you so much for the email.
15:36
I appreciate you
15:37
writing in.
15:38
The rest of y'all,
15:39
please email me.
15:40
I'd love to hear from you,
15:41
brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
15:43
I will talk to you soon.
15:44
Love y'all.
15:45
Have a good week.
15:45
Bye.
15:47
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
15:50
Brenna Hicks.
15:51
For more episodes and resources,
15:53
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.