Latest / Karl and Crew / Addressing Antisemitism with Dr. Michael Rydelnik; Pursuing God's Vision with Dr. Gregg Allgood; and 4 Key Principles of Prayer with Greg Dempster

Transcript

Addressing Antisemitism with Dr. Michael Rydelnik; Pursuing God's Vision with Dr. Gregg Allgood; and 4 Key Principles of Prayer with Greg Dempster · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Coming to you live in studio. It's Carl and crew
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  S1: on Moody Radio.
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  S2: Well, it's so good to get Ali back in the
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  S2: studio here and. Super. Oh that's right. It was me
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  S2: that was gone. Excuse me. Yeah. Yeah. I realize how
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  S2: much I love you guys and routines. Their routines are good.
• 0:25
  S2: Routines are good. Even if they're early morning, they're good. And, um. Yeah,
• 0:29
  S2: it's good to be back in the saddle again.
• 0:33
  S3: Good to have you back.
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  S2: Yeah, it's good to be back here. Good to be
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  S2: with family for a week or so. And see my
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  S2: bride's mom and dad and see how they're doing and just, uh,
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  S2: help them get around a little bit and have a
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  S2: little connection time. That was valuable. It's good to connect
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  S2: with family guys.
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  S3: Absolutely.
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  S2: Yeah. Yeah. And family comes with all kinds of cool
• 0:55
  S2: twists and turns. You know that, right?
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  S3: Oh, that's another show. No twists and turns. Twists and turns. Yeah.
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  S2: We're talking core truths this week. Why in the world
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  S2: would we talk core truths as opposed to all truth? Allie.
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  S3: Come on. I mean, you.
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  S4: When you have to reduce it down, you want to
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  S4: find out what is the most important. What are the
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  S4: most important things to focus on?
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  S2: Yeah. It's, you know, the interesting thing about truth and
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  S2: opinions and all those things that we have is, I mean,
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  S2: we can really, we can set ourselves up for some
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  S2: grave disappointment because we can have truth that we anchor
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  S2: on and that's dynamite. But if we're not careful, we
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  S2: can begin to create kind of sides, as it were.
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  S2: I've got my side and I've got those people that
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  S2: we're against here. And the interesting thing is that in
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  S2: Joshua chapter five, we find, uh, something that's that's amazing. Joshua.
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  S2: And about 40,000 fighting men are about to go do
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  S2: a conquest of Jericho. And just outside Gilgal, Joshua runs
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  S2: into a christophany, which is Christ himself. And he's wielding
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  S2: a sword. As a matter of fact, let me go
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  S2: ahead and open up the text here. Joshua was by Jericho.
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  S2: He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a
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  S2: man was standing before him with a drawn sword in
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  S2: his hand. And Joshua went to him and said, and
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  S2: by the way, I don't blame him for saying this.
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  S2: I see a guy with a drawn sword. I'm going
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  S2: to ask the same question, are you for us or
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  S2: for our adversaries? And the Lord Jesus Christ said, no,
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  S2: I am the commander of the army of the Lord.
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  S2: Now I have come. And Joshua fell, whose face the
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  S2: earth took off his sandals, because he said, Jesus had
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  S2: said to him, this is holy ground here. Almost all
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  S2: theologians believe this is a christophany. It's a vision of
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  S2: Christ obviously appearing as a warrior. And the the interesting
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  S2: question that is asked is, and it's the right one,
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  S2: are you for or against us? And the answer that
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  S2: God gives us through this christophany this meeting with Jesus
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  S2: is no. And what that means is this I sought
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  S2: through sides, and I stand and anchor myself on truth
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  S2: in the. The danger with getting sides is pretty quick.
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  S2: You can get. You can accumulate all these convictions and
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  S2: positions that you hold about everything theological, social, right. I mean,
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  S2: relational and pretty quick, you can really set yourself up
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  S2: for for challenges. And it's due in large part to
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  S2: the fact that, you know, when we, when we ask
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  S2: God to take our side, but then our side loses,
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  S2: as we find in Hebrews 11, it didn't come always
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  S2: out as victory. In fact, most often not for those
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  S2: that were the faithful in Christ Jesus. So it's always
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  S2: good to stop and go, God, what is your will here?
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  S2: Not what is my will, not what is my side,
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  S2: but what your will here. And and that's what we
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  S2: want to do with core truths is boil it down
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  S2: to what are the essentials of faith? And can we
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  S2: get camped on those? Because it's easy to get off
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  S2: into the squiggly woods of how many angels can sit
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  S2: on the tip of a needle, right? I mean, you
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  S2: can get into weird, weird stuff. And the interesting thing
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  S2: about core truths is the older I get, the more narrow,
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  S2: I don't know, let's let's go this way, the shorter
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  S2: my doctrinal statement has become, but the more solid I
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  S2: am around those things. And it's a it's a beautiful privilege.
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  S2: So we've got an opportunity this week to bring on
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  S2: guests to open the word and say, what are the
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  S2: core truths? The interesting thing about core truths that I've
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  S2: found is that you take the issue of, let's just say, eschatology,
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  S2: end times theology. When's the Lord returning? When is he
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  S2: coming back? What's going to be happening around those events?
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  S2: And here's what I found. That's kind of funny. People
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  S2: that are fairly compared to theologians that have researched these
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  S2: deeper things for years and years, people that are more
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  S2: novice at it actually get a little more table pounding
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  S2: about it. The older people get, the less they get
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  S2: wrinkled up about it. Isn't that interesting?
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  S3: Yeah, it's.
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  S4: It's very true. I mean, there's something about a mature,
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  S4: seasoned saint who has, like you said, those core convictions
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  S4: and holds them deeply and doesn't compromise on them. Yeah,
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  S4: but also isn't going to flip a table every time
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  S4: they meet somebody who doesn't see it exactly the way
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  S4: that they do.
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  S2: It's funny that you say that because flipping tables get is,
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  S2: is oftentimes kind of the.
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  S4: The excuse that people use.
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  S2: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of the proof text. It's like, well,
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  S2: Jesus flipped over the tables. Well, be careful with that. Yeah.
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  S2: I mean, it was, it was in one situation where
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  S2: he did this a couple of times, two days, uh,
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  S2: where he came in and opened a can and said,
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  S2: come on, this is a house of prayer. You've turned
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  S2: it into a den of thieves. So it's, it's dangerous
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  S2: because more often than not, and remember, those were religious
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  S2: Pharisees who had really sullied the temple courts, and they
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  S2: had turned it into a profit making enterprise for Passover,
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  S2: giving away sacrifices at a very high premium because they
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  S2: knew people couldn't travel to Jerusalem, to which many didn't
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  S2: travel with their sacrifices. So it's like, hey, we got
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  S2: an opportunity to gouge them. So Jesus has taken on
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  S2: the religious elite with a very clear problem that was
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  S2: going on. Now, the interesting thing is, if you look
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  S2: at Christ, he was very patient for different theological positions,
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  S2: even ones that were totally twisted and wrong. He was
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  S2: very loving, very kind, very compassionate, very chill compared to
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  S2: sometimes what we become. I remember when I was a
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  S2: freshman in college, ooh, baby. Oh, the freshman came in
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  S2: and they got on high horses. And I remember calling
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  S2: the president of the Bible College, uh, a few, uh,
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  S2: one year after I graduated from Bible college. And I
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  S2: had to apologize for one thing. And I said, Doctor
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  S2: Joe's doctor, Joe Aldrich at Multnomah Bible College. Great man
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  S2: of God. I said, I just want to apologize so
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  S2: much for what I was as a student body president
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  S2: and got on my high horse and all that. And
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  S2: he said, oh, I forgive you, Carl. He said, but
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  S2: but you need to know something. I got a whole
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  S2: new crop of freshmen that came in this year. I
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  S2: got a whole new crop of you crazies that showed up.
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  S2: So it's fascinating coming up here in a moment. Let's
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  S2: get Doctor Michael Ray in here. What do you say.
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  S4: Let's have him weigh in on some core truths.
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  S2: Yeah core truths week guys. Let's get anchored on what
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  S2: really matters. Going to be going after it all week.
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  S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and
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  S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
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  S2: We're called in Ephesians and many places in Scripture that
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  S2: this desire to not only sing songs of praise to God,
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  S2: but to one another. One of the things that requires
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  S2: is that we're locked at the hip around a few
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  S2: things and not divided over what I would call lesser
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  S2: important issues. We're talking core truths this whole week. It's interesting. Michael,
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  S2: I want to go back to when you were a
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  S2: freshman in Bible college back in the day. It seems
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  S2: like freshmen come in with an opinion on almost any
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  S2: theological topic there is out there, and they're more dogmatic
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  S2: than guys that have been doing it for 40 years.
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  S2: What do you say? Why is that, Michael?
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  S5: Because we don't know anything.
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  S2: And we think we do.
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  S5: The more you learn, the less. The more you learn.
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  S5: The less you realize the real, the more you realize,
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  S5: the less you know.
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  S2: You know what? That that is so true. And and
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  S2: the less argumentative you are with people that hold a
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  S2: different view. Yeah, yeah. What is that all about? Is
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  S2: it just a spiritual trajectory thing? What's going on with that?
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  S5: Well, I actually think that that's why Paul says, don't
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  S5: let a novice become an elder because they don't know
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  S5: anything yet, but they think they know everything and. And
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  S5: that's a good thing to remember. And then also, uh,
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  S5: I think that as you grow spiritually, you have greater
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  S5: tolerance for, uh, others who, who may differ with you,
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  S5: I think. Yeah. And now the thing is, there's certain
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  S5: core truths of scripture.
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  S2: You gotta hold on to that.
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  S5: You got to hold on to, and I will argue it.
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  S5: I won't be obnoxious. I can be brothers with someone
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  S5: that disagrees with me about them. But, uh, I tell
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  S5: you what I was just doing, I was just reading. I'm,
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  S5: I'm reading through Ezekiel right now. I was reading the
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  S5: Bible right before we talked. And, and this is not
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  S5: what I planned on talking about for my core truth, but, uh,
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  S5: here's what I was reading. Uh, it says that Moab
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  S5: says in Ezekiel 25, uh, look, the house, this is
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  S5: what Moab says, behold, because Moab and Seir said, look,
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  S5: the house of Judah is like all the other nations. Therefore,
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  S5: I'm about to expose Moab's flank, beginning from its frontier cities.
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  S5: The pride of the land, basically. God says, I'm going
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  S5: to judge Moab because they didn't recognize my covenant with Israel.
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  S5: They say like Israel is like every other nation. Yeah. And,
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  S5: you know, that's something that I have spent a lifetime
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  S5: trying to tell people, no, you can't just say God's
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  S5: done with Israel. He still has a plan with Israel,
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  S5: and Israel has God. God has a special concern there.
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  S5: And still, you know, I know there are people who
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  S5: are brothers and sisters in the Lord who disagree with me,
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  S5: and I can love them in the Lord. But this
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  S5: is a core truth that God warns Moab about, and
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  S5: I think we need to be concerned with. So those
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  S5: are some of the things that. But that's. I was
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  S5: just reading Ezekiel. What do you do at 530 in
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  S5: the morning? Michael read Ezekiel 25. So.
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  S2: Well, that was in Joshua five. So we're all over
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  S2: the place.
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  S4: Doctor Michael Riedel with us this morning, professor emeritus of
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  S4: Jewish studies here at Moody Bible Institute. I'm curious, Doctor Riedel,
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  S4: what are maybe give us 1 or 2 things that
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  S4: a much younger Michael would was a fist was fist
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  S4: pounding passionate about.
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  S2: You're going to get a confession out of him.
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  S4: And now. And so these would not be the what
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  S4: you would now say are the core truths. But maybe, uh,
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  S4: younger you would have gotten fired up about are you
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  S4: willing to give us 1 or 2?
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  S5: Sure. I'll tell you a core truth, I haven't changed.
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  S5: And when I did, okay, I haven't changed my opinion,
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  S5: but I'm not as fired up about it. Okay. Okay.
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  S5: So first of all, the core truth that I've put
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  S5: my whole life on, it's it's central to my whole
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  S5: life is that Jesus is the Messiah revealed in the
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  S5: Hebrew Scriptures. I really argued, I thought I couldn't be
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  S5: Jewish and believe in Jesus. It was a terrible thing
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  S5: when my mom came out with her faith and then
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  S5: by studying messianic prophecy. I planted the flag. I came
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  S5: to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. And then, you know,
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  S5: I've encountered Old Testament scholars that say, oh, the Hebrew
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  S5: Bible isn't messianic. It doesn't point forward to the Messiah.
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  S5: It's just sort of symbolic. And no, I've I've planted
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  S5: the flag and I, I've written books about it. I
• 13:00
  S5: you know what I'm saying? It's this is something that's,
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  S5: that's a core truth for me. And I will proclaim it, uh,
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  S5: and argue it. Uh, when I first came to the Lord,
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  S5: I was pushed, uh, prodded to receive a second blessing
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  S5: with evidence of, uh, of speaking in tongues. Yeah. And
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  S5: I tried and tried and tried. It didn't happen for me.
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  S5: And then I was told I was demonized and they
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  S5: were going to cast out demons because I wasn't speaking
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  S5: in tongues. And, you know, finally I thought, oh, this
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  S5: is ridiculous. And I became quite what I would say,
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  S5: hostile to those who held that view.
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  S2: Yes. That's not healthy either, is it?
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  S5: Yeah. But now I don't care. You know, you, you know,
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  S5: whatever people want to say about that. I'll teach them
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  S5: the scriptures. I won't argue about it. Uh, but so
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  S5: that's one of those things I was really, really feisty about.
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  S5: If you go back about 50 years.
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  S3: But.
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  S5: Not now.
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  S3: Thank you for sharing that.
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  S2: Yeah. No, that's that's, that's a good one. And I,
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  S2: and I'm thankful that a lot of people that, uh,
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  S2: have held positions on tongues, those camps used to be
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  S2: really divided. It was a necessary evidence of salvation. And
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  S2: there's certain denominations for which I will not cite. There's
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  S2: no need for that, that that have loosened that position
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  S2: radically as of late, which is good, isn't it, Michael?
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  S5: Well, you know, because we agree on the essentials, we agree.
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  S5: And and so that's a secondary issue for me. And,
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  S5: you know, again, I haven't changed my opinion about all
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  S5: believers fully having the Holy Spirit when we come to
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  S5: believe in Jesus. I haven't in Romans eight nine, it says,
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  S5: if you don't have the Spirit of Christ, you don't
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  S5: belong to him. So I, I know what I know
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  S5: about this. However, you know, I have friends who are
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  S5: fighting the good fight and they are of a different
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  S5: mind about this than I am. But they're really committed,
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  S5: growing wonderful followers of Jesus. And I'm not going to
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  S5: argue with them about that.
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  S2: Michael, that's so healthy. That's so healthy. Because if we
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  S2: if we start splitting sheets over these things, yeah, we
• 15:17
  S2: get on some pretty narrow terra firma here, buddy. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
• 15:22
  S2: Coming up, coming up here in a moment. Uh, Michael.
• 15:25
  S2: Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick here. Just great man of God,
• 15:28
  S2: great passion. Core truth Around Jew hatred. You're not even
• 15:35
  S2: calling it an anti-Semitism anymore. And we're going to tackle
• 15:39
  S2: that one head on. And we've got a phenomenal resource
• 15:42
  S2: for you that you're going to want to get a
• 15:44
  S2: link to. Hang on. Uh, Michael Redlick is with us
• 15:47
  S2: right now, and he's no longer calling it anti-Semitism, although
• 15:51
  S2: there's a summit titled with that word but Jew hatred. Michael,
• 15:56
  S2: I've got one one thing I want you to do
• 15:59
  S2: for me at your summit, and I hope you planned
• 16:01
  S2: on it, because the title of the summit that's coming
• 16:04
  S2: up is is opposing the new Christian anti-Semitism. Mhm. I,
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  S2: I think that we need to get air quotes around
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  S2: Christian because I, I don't believe that, Michael, I don't
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  S2: believe you can be a disciple of Jesus Christ. And
• 16:19
  S2: maybe that's the difference.
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  S5: Professing Christian.
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  S2: I do I really believe that, brother. I mean, it's
• 16:25
  S2: just what's going on with Jew hatred is, to me
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  S2: revelatory that these people do not know Christ, their Christian name.
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  S5: Only one of. Well, what they do, and this is
• 16:37
  S5: how it is justified by some people who profess to
• 16:40
  S5: be followers of Jesus. First of all, they say that
• 16:43
  S5: the church is Israel, and therefore it's okay to hate
• 16:47
  S5: Israel because they're not Israel anymore. That's one way. A
• 16:51
  S5: second way they say that. And when I say the
• 16:54
  S5: word Israel, I don't mean the modern nation state in
• 16:57
  S5: the Middle East. That's part of Israel. I mean ethnic Israel,
• 17:01
  S5: the Jewish people around the globe. So they feel like
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  S5: it's okay to justify it justifies their hatred because, hey,
• 17:08
  S5: we're the Israel, they're not Israel. The second way they
• 17:11
  S5: do it is say, they say the Jewish people aren't
• 17:13
  S5: actually the descendants of the Jewish people of the Bible.
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  S5: Have you heard that one?
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  S2: Yeah, I have.
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  S5: I mean, the Khazars are the Jewish people that a
• 17:25
  S5: Turkic people in near Ukraine and Turkey, that area that
• 17:29
  S5: they converted as a kingdom. And all the Jewish people
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  S5: that you see today are actually descendants of that non-Jewish kingdom,
• 17:38
  S5: which has been proven false. A number of ways. This idea.
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  S5: First of all, by genetics. Genetic science has shown this.
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  S5: This is ridiculous. The Jewish people are the Jewish people
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  S5: from that land of Israel. And genetics actually shows it.
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  S5: And DNA studies. But also there's no Turkic elements in
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  S5: any Jewish language. It's it's just you would expect that,
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  S5: but it's not there. So anyway, that's that's the second
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  S5: way they justify it and then they take a third
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  S5: way is they take verses out of context from the Bible,
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  S5: like in revelation two nine and three nine, where it
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  S5: calls certain people the synagogue of Satan. And then they say,
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  S5: this verse applies to all Jewish people. So Jesus hates
• 18:26
  S5: the Jewish people, so I should too. And those are
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  S5: the three ways that they justify it. Of course, revelation
• 18:31
  S5: 2939 says of these Jewish people who are the synagogue
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  S5: of Satan. They say they are Jews, but they are not.
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  S5: Meaning that they're likely Gentile converts to Judaism who are
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  S5: saying things like, oh, you need to convert to Judaism
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  S5: first before you can believe in Jesus. They were the Galatians. Uh,
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  S5: a generation later, uh, the legalists there, and they weren't
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  S5: even Jewish. But even so, even if they were Jews,
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  S5: which I don't believe, that's what that passage is saying
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  S5: in revelation two nine and three nine. But if they were,
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  S5: it's only a group right there that were at odds
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  S5: with the church. It's not all Jewish people all over
• 19:08
  S5: the place. Yeah. Look at how many synagogues the Lord
• 19:10
  S5: Jesus taught in all over Galilee. Would he go to
• 19:13
  S5: the synagogue of Satan? Come on. Yeah. So anyway, that's
• 19:16
  S5: how they that's how they justify it. It is horrific.
• 19:20
  S5: And that's why they are very loud. They're angry at
• 19:23
  S5: Jewish people because they don't believe in Jesus. Instead of
• 19:26
  S5: proclaiming Jesus in a loving way.
• 19:28
  S4: So coming up here at Moody Bible Institute, right here
• 19:31
  S4: in Chicago on November 7th, it's a Saturday, the Moody
• 19:34
  S4: Summit opposing the new Christian anti Semitism doctor Nick, one
• 19:38
  S4: of the speakers also Doctor Everett Piper, doctor Mark Yarborough,
• 19:42
  S4: Doctor William Washington, Aaron Shust is going to be providing
• 19:45
  S4: the worship. What are you hoping that that comes out
• 19:49
  S4: of this. Obviously anyone who has a wants to stand
• 19:52
  S4: with the Jewish people who wants to oppose this new
• 19:56
  S4: Christian or professing Christian anti Semitism. What's the goal of
• 20:00
  S4: the day?
• 20:01
  S5: Well, we want to inform, obviously, because there are people
• 20:04
  S5: who aren't aware of how big this has become. Uh,
• 20:07
  S5: and it is growing. Uh, there's a real problem. For example,
• 20:12
  S5: we want to inform people at Christian colleges, a lot
• 20:16
  S5: of young men are embracing what are called the groypers, uh,
• 20:20
  S5: these right wing haters of the Jewish people. Yeah. Extreme
• 20:25
  S5: right wing. And I've I've talked to several people at
• 20:28
  S5: several Christian colleges where the young men are just embracing this,
• 20:33
  S5: almost a neo-Nazi ideology. So that is, uh, going to
• 20:39
  S5: inform people about what's going on across the board. And so,
• 20:42
  S5: but then mobilize we want people to have the tools
• 20:47
  S5: so they can speak up, they can influence, they can
• 20:49
  S5: get their churches to be concerned about it because a
• 20:52
  S5: lot of churches are just saying, you know, we're just
• 20:53
  S5: going to keep our mouths shut about this. So what
• 20:55
  S5: we want to do is help mobilize people so they
• 20:59
  S5: can actually do something about it. So that we're not
• 21:01
  S5: like the church in Germany in 19 in the 1930s
• 21:04
  S5: that said, well, you know, this is not my business. So, uh, that's,
• 21:08
  S5: that's what we want to do. I do have some,
• 21:09
  S5: some good news, though, for listeners who want to be
• 21:12
  S5: part of this. If they sign up, you can go to,
• 21:16
  S5: I think you have a link on your. Yes, we do,
• 21:18
  S5: but if you when you register, if you put the
• 21:21
  S5: code radio 20, you get 20% off on the registration suite. Okay.
• 21:27
  S5: That's that's I hope that's a motivation for people to come.
• 21:31
  S2: Yeah, so I do as well. A quick 1/32 question here.
• 21:35
  S2: You know, a lot of issues of apologetics and, uh,
• 21:39
  S2: whether I mean, whether it's, uh, creationists who are debating, uh,
• 21:46
  S2: the common atheists of our day, a lot of those
• 21:49
  S2: discussions seem futile. Have you seen people sobered up as
• 21:54
  S2: you've talked with them or heard that there is a
• 21:57
  S2: turning of mind around on this issue?
• 22:00
  S5: Yeah. You know, there are people that get very angry
• 22:02
  S5: at me. I was, you know, I wrote this book, uh,
• 22:04
  S5: what should Christians think about Israel? And I was speaking
• 22:08
  S5: at a church and, uh, someone actually a Christian leader
• 22:13
  S5: stood up and said, why do you have to say
• 22:16
  S5: it matters? Why do you have to say it matters
• 22:18
  S5: because of all these verses. You're just. He wanted to
• 22:22
  S5: dismiss me as just a dispensationalist and he said, Jewish
• 22:25
  S5: people are made in the image of God. We should
• 22:27
  S5: be against hatred of Jewish people just for that reason alone.
• 22:29
  S5: And stop raising all these other questions. Why do you
• 22:32
  S5: raise it? I said, well, first of all, I'm showing
• 22:33
  S5: you what the Bible says. I'm not trying to give
• 22:36
  S5: a distinctive theology. And then I cited, which is really important.
• 22:40
  S5: There are a lot of great scholars like Douglas Moo, Thomas, uh,
• 22:44
  S5: Thomas Schreiner and others who I cited who point out
• 22:48
  S5: those verses that I was talking about, about Israel in
• 22:51
  S5: the New Testament, the same way I do. And they
• 22:53
  S5: are not they're not dispensationalists. They're just biblicist. And so
• 22:57
  S5: what I am seeing is that there are people who
• 23:00
  S5: are initially reluctant to hear this. And then when they
• 23:06
  S5: see that there is a broad swath of biblical commentators
• 23:11
  S5: who hold all kinds of different theological perspectives and hermeneutics
• 23:15
  S5: or interpretive methods that they agree. Okay, now. Now they
• 23:19
  S5: understand that this is a serious problem.
• 23:21
  S2: Dynamite. All right, we got a link for you guys. Boom! Crew.
• 23:24
  S2: This is important here. Text the keyword summit. Summit to
• 23:28
  S2: 805 557898. Summit to 805 5578, 98. When you get
• 23:37
  S2: that thing opened up, guess what we've got this morning, Ali.
• 23:40
  S4: Yeah, that radio 20, that's going to be your discount code. Uh,
• 23:44
  S4: because you heard it here on Moody Radio. So just
• 23:46
  S4: text summit to 805 557898. Be sure to use that
• 23:51
  S4: promo code.
• 23:53
  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
• 23:56
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
• 23:59
  S2: So I got a funny core truths kind of correlation here.
• 24:02
  S2: You know, the, the cool thing about, uh, you've noticed
• 24:06
  S2: this raising kids, Ali when, when kids start to understand
• 24:10
  S2: how life works and they start to get some patterns
• 24:13
  S2: of health, they get more boundaries, right?
• 24:15
  S4: Yes, I give me an example.
• 24:17
  S2: They get a little more latitude like, uh, well, let's
• 24:20
  S2: just say driving, for instance. Okay. You know, when a
• 24:23
  S2: kid starts to drive, you're wanting to be with them.
• 24:25
  S2: You're freaking out a little bit. That can be tense. Uh,
• 24:28
  S2: there may be turning right when they should have gone
• 24:30
  S2: left and all kinds turning into traffic or something. Well,
• 24:33
  S2: you want to say we're going to stay close to home? Yes.
• 24:36
  S2: But when they get a handle on that thing, boy,
• 24:39
  S2: they get they get more latitude out there.
• 24:42
  S4: Absolutely. And that's just been the in the last year
• 24:44
  S4: for us.
• 24:45
  S2: Yeah. That's why I wanted to use that one.
• 24:47
  S4: I totally get that. When she first started driving, I
• 24:50
  S4: was tracking her location like every minute that she was
• 24:54
  S4: out there. I didn't want her to go on the highway. And,
• 24:56
  S4: you know, now a year in and praise God, she's
• 24:59
  S4: a very responsible driver. So she's we've given her more freedom.
• 25:03
  S4: She drives on the highway and gets herself where she
• 25:05
  S4: needs to go.
• 25:06
  S2: Now she's got a sharp kid. She's a good firstborn.
• 25:10
  S2: She acts like a first born.
• 25:11
  S4: A first born for sure.
• 25:13
  S2: Uh. so big, big boundaries spread. I opened up some
• 25:19
  S2: latitude for blaze. He's one year old.
• 25:22
  S4: We saw that. Lots of our listeners wishing him a
• 25:25
  S4: happy birthday. Lots of our listeners, dogs weighing in on Facebook.
• 25:29
  S2: That's really cool. It's fun to get that kind of love. Yeah.
• 25:32
  S2: It is. And so now he's got a bigger chunk.
• 25:37
  S2: It was, you know, it was kennel and then out
• 25:39
  S2: for walks and staying on the leash and staying on
• 25:41
  S2: the leash, even in the living area, just kind of
• 25:45
  S2: hanging out because he had this propensity to chew everything
• 25:50
  S2: that was there.
• 25:51
  S6: He's a puppy.
• 25:52
  S2: Yeah. Everything. So we got that reeled in and now
• 25:57
  S2: he's got latitude guys. He prances like a show horse.
• 26:00
  S2: He's like, man, oh man. And he's running up and
• 26:04
  S2: down the stairs to to get food and water. And
• 26:07
  S2: so he'll go down and get a couple of kibbles
• 26:09
  S2: of food, a little drink of water, and then come
• 26:11
  S2: back up Like I've still got room to run.
• 26:14
  S7: Look what I can do. Look what I can do.
• 26:16
  S2: He doesn't have the the whole home. So I got
• 26:18
  S2: a kiddie gate going up to another level. So we
• 26:21
  S2: got that one cordoned off. And I made a grave
• 26:24
  S2: error yesterday of keeping that gate open. And he went
• 26:27
  S2: and was real curious about the cats. And the cats
• 26:29
  S2: were not all too pleased. So I said, this is
• 26:32
  S2: your area down here. Sorry, I left that gate open.
• 26:34
  S2: He's like, oh man. I'm like, it's coming. But there's
• 26:37
  S2: going to be another six months. So right now we
• 26:41
  S2: got him where he's not chewing couches, furniture, anything that,
• 26:44
  S2: you know, socks, shoes, sure.
• 26:48
  S7: Furniture, rugs.
• 26:49
  S2: Railings.
• 26:50
  S7: Whatever.
• 26:50
  S4: It may be a little bit more freedom, I love it.
• 26:52
  S2: And so he gets a little more freedom. So you
• 26:54
  S2: get those core truths down and bada bing, bada boom.
• 26:57
  S2: We're talking core truths today. And, uh, you know, it's,
• 27:01
  S2: it's an awesome thing to get anchored in these things,
• 27:03
  S2: isn't it?
• 27:04
  S4: Ali. It is. And we need to, because when you
• 27:06
  S4: have a really good grasp, not just intellectually, but actually
• 27:11
  S4: your heart wrapped around some core truths. Man, it makes
• 27:14
  S4: it much easier to just to look at life with discernment,
• 27:18
  S4: to discern what what I'm hearing. AM I hearing something
• 27:21
  S4: that's true or false? We talked a lot about this
• 27:23
  S4: last week. I mean, without a without being anchored in
• 27:26
  S4: core truths, you could easily be swayed by persuasive sounding arguments.
• 27:31
  S2: Yeah, yeah. It's really true. Coming up, the beat goes on, guys.
• 27:34
  S2: We're tackling core truths. What are those things that we
• 27:37
  S2: need to be anchored in, and what do we need
• 27:39
  S2: to let go? Or be a little more conciliatory with
• 27:41
  S2: people that see things differently? Hang on.
• 27:45
  S1: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening
• 27:49
  S1: to Carl and crew.
• 27:51
  S2: This whole week we're going to be talking core truths.
• 27:54
  S2: And here's a reality for me. The older I get,
• 27:57
  S2: the longer in the tooth. I like that term longer
• 27:59
  S2: in the tooth, the longer in the tooth I get,
• 28:02
  S2: the more I'm realizing something. My doctrinal statement is getting
• 28:07
  S2: more Compacted and more solid than ever. It's just like
• 28:11
  S2: there's a few key things you got to hold on to, Ali.
• 28:15
  S4: And certainly one of those things is how you spend
• 28:19
  S4: your time, right? We know that we need to make
• 28:22
  S4: the best use of the days because the days are evil.
• 28:25
  S4: So you can't be saying yes to everything, right? You
• 28:28
  S4: want to really hone in on what does God have
• 28:31
  S4: me to do in the days that he's given me?
• 28:34
  S2: Doctor Greg Allgood is with us right now. He's the
• 28:36
  S2: vice president of water and health at World Vision. It's
• 28:39
  S2: the largest Christian Christ follower relief and development organization in
• 28:44
  S2: the world. Let's get your backstory. You've got a lot
• 28:47
  S2: of experience. I'm not calling you old. I'm not doing that, doc.
• 28:51
  S2: But you got you got a lot. You got a
• 28:54
  S2: lot of experience. What has God taught you about finding
• 28:59
  S2: the yes in your life?
• 29:01
  S8: Well, you know, God uses flawed people, and I'm certainly
• 29:04
  S8: one of those. I've learned a lot of lessons along
• 29:06
  S8: the way. But what I found is that if you persevere,
• 29:09
  S8: if you get the support from others, and if you
• 29:11
  S8: you follow your passions. And I guess I really mean
• 29:13
  S8: by that if you find your purpose in life, and
• 29:16
  S8: I believe everyone has a unique purpose. And God showed
• 29:19
  S8: me that through a number of miracles, what my true
• 29:21
  S8: purpose was and is helping provide clean drinking water in
• 29:23
  S8: the developing world.
• 29:25
  S4: How did you land on that as your purpose? It
• 29:27
  S4: just flows out of you and you've been doing it
• 29:29
  S4: a lot of years. How did you get there?
• 29:30
  S2: Flows out of you. Pardon?
• 29:31
  S4: Pardon the pun. Pun intended.
• 29:33
  S8: Yes. Well, so I was in Kenya. I was working
• 29:36
  S8: for Procter and Gamble, and we had a water purification product,
• 29:40
  S8: a little powder, a tea sized bag size that made filthy,
• 29:43
  S8: dirty water turn crystal clear. We tried to make it
• 29:46
  S8: available as a for profit business, but unfortunately it was
• 29:50
  S8: not meeting our success criteria. And I was in a
• 29:52
  S8: place where people collected water from a dirty pond, and
• 29:56
  S8: I asked a woman named mercy if I could show
• 29:58
  S8: her how to make her water clear and clean. With
• 30:01
  S8: these packets. I added the packets to the water. We
• 30:03
  S8: stirred the water. It got crystal clear and she got
• 30:07
  S8: down on her hands and knees. When we finished drinking
• 30:10
  S8: the purified water and begged me for more of the
• 30:13
  S8: water purification packets, and that just hit me that this
• 30:16
  S8: is a matter of life and death for so many people.
• 30:18
  S8: In fact, still a thousand kids die every day from
• 30:22
  S8: the lack of clean water. At that point, it was
• 30:25
  S8: 4000 kids. And I knew if somehow I could get
• 30:27
  S8: P&G to continue this work as a not for profit,
• 30:30
  S8: then that would be my purpose. And in fact, we
• 30:32
  S8: were successful in doing that.
• 30:33
  S2: Well, here's what's crazy. So you didn't get on your
• 30:36
  S2: knees and and sojourn across the desert looking for God's
• 30:41
  S2: greater vision for your life. He smacked you in the
• 30:43
  S2: face with this thing. Doctor Allgood.
• 30:45
  S8: He had to smack me in the face a couple
• 30:47
  S8: of times. In fact, it took me a while to
• 30:49
  S8: figure out that God was putting miracles in my path,
• 30:51
  S8: and I arrogantly thought that sort of. I was always
• 30:54
  S8: the person of faith, but I sort of thought that, well,
• 30:56
  S8: I had God on speed dial. I was the the
• 30:59
  S8: blue eyed prince that, you know, I could ask for
• 31:01
  S8: help and he'd be helping me, but I finally figured
• 31:03
  S8: out that I was here to do God's mission, not
• 31:05
  S8: the other way around. Through a series of miracles that
• 31:07
  S8: he provided to me.
• 31:08
  S4: You've mentioned a series of miracles. You've mentioned that a
• 31:11
  S4: couple of times. Can you tell us one of those
• 31:13
  S4: miracle stories?
• 31:14
  S8: Yeah. So when I was struggling to get P and
• 31:17
  S8: G to to agree to a not for profit effort,
• 31:20
  S8: I was in Geneva meeting with some of our team there.
• 31:23
  S8: And I was struggling because actually some of my senior
• 31:27
  S8: vice president, he was trying to fire me because of
• 31:29
  S8: this radical idea that a scientist could lead a not
• 31:32
  S8: for profit business, something that P&G has never done in
• 31:35
  S8: their 185 year old company. So I was struggling with that,
• 31:38
  S8: and I was running around like Geneva. It's a beautiful place.
• 31:40
  S8: If you've ever been there. It's got the jet fountain,
• 31:42
  S8: water fountain. It's got the old city. The stress is gone.
• 31:45
  S8: But this time the stress kept building. And I finally
• 31:48
  S8: heard God say to me, do you doubt that I
• 31:51
  S8: can do this? And I'd never heard God speak to
• 31:54
  S8: me before. So I was, you know, very unusual. And
• 31:57
  S8: it stopped me in my tracks. And I fell to
• 31:58
  S8: my knees and of course, wept hearing that voice. And
• 32:01
  S8: that gave me the Holy Spirit entered me, and I
• 32:03
  S8: just had this enormous confidence. And that confidence helped absorb
• 32:07
  S8: the fear of others in my group that were also
• 32:09
  S8: trying to help me, and we were able to get
• 32:11
  S8: it done. We were able to get PNG to agree
• 32:13
  S8: to make it a not for profit. It still continues
• 32:16
  S8: to this day. It's provided 25,000,000,000l of clean water. After
• 32:21
  S8: a time, God told me it's time to move somewhere else.
• 32:23
  S8: That was World Vision because I loved their development model.
• 32:26
  S8: It really works to lift people out of extreme poverty sustainably,
• 32:31
  S8: forever and their gods led us to provide just in
• 32:35
  S8: the last ten years, 36 million people with clean water access.
• 32:41
  S8: That's more than the population of Texas.
• 32:43
  S2: Yeah. It's huge. Our guest right now, Doctor Greg Allgood.
• 32:46
  S2: All right. You've been okay. Let's just cut to the
• 32:51
  S2: chase here. You've been a high level leader. If you're
• 32:54
  S2: Procter and Gamble for 27 years and you've got the
• 32:57
  S2: ear of the. I mean, you're almost in the executive suite.
• 33:00
  S2: If you weren't. When you've lived your whole life taking
• 33:04
  S2: the bull by the horns, how do you determine that
• 33:07
  S2: you are walking by faith and not Greg Allgood presumption.
• 33:12
  S8: That's a hard one. And so it took me a
• 33:14
  S8: while to figure that out. In fact, I'm not sure
• 33:16
  S8: I had it figured out while I was at P&G.
• 33:18
  S8: I knew that I was doing the right thing. Okay.
• 33:20
  S8: P&G was doing the right thing by supporting the effort
• 33:22
  S8: to create a not for profit, but it was really
• 33:24
  S8: not until I moved to World Vision and got to
• 33:27
  S8: understand that God could do this with or without Greg Allgood.
• 33:30
  S8: He doesn't need Greg Allgood to achieve his mission. And
• 33:33
  S8: it was really because of some of the people that
• 33:35
  S8: support us that I helped see their generosity. And that's
• 33:38
  S8: what helped me understand that I was there to do.
• 33:40
  S8: I'm just God's water boy when it comes down to it.
• 33:42
  S9: Yeah. That's beautiful.
• 33:44
  S4: You know, one of the things that you cover in
• 33:45
  S4: the book is that sometimes the passion for work, the
• 33:48
  S4: passion for even a great cause, can, can lead to burnout.
• 33:51
  S4: If you're not careful as a leader, as someone who
• 33:54
  S4: wants to, you know, take charge and take care of people. Really?
• 33:58
  S4: But how do you know when you're on that kind
• 34:00
  S4: of crash course, that collision course with burnout, or you're
• 34:03
  S4: at least headed there?
• 34:04
  S8: Yeah. It's difficult. And particularly when you're doing something in
• 34:07
  S8: the humanitarian field where literally the work that you're doing
• 34:10
  S8: can be saving lives, you sort of get at least
• 34:12
  S8: I did got a superhero complex that if I don't
• 34:15
  S8: do this, if I don't, you know, not spend time
• 34:18
  S8: with my family, if I, if I don't go on
• 34:20
  S8: this vacation, then then people might not survive. And that's
• 34:23
  S8: a false choice. You know, you have to do both.
• 34:25
  S8: You have to take care of the priorities in your life,
• 34:27
  S8: your family, your faith, and then also do that work.
• 34:30
  S8: And I was all too often making the choice only
• 34:32
  S8: for work and not letting others around me support me.
• 34:35
  S8: So that's something that I learned through the journey.
• 34:38
  S2: So if I were to ask the boom crew right now,
• 34:41
  S2: for which there's a many tens of thousands listening, as
• 34:45
  S2: we as we just converse here. Are you thirsty for
• 34:49
  S2: a miracle? It might cause a tremor in North America
• 34:53
  S2: and beyond from everyone saying yes. And I think we've
• 34:59
  S2: got to just ask the question, what have you learned
• 35:02
  S2: about not only being thirsty for a miracle, but witnessing
• 35:07
  S2: God deliver that miracle?
• 35:09
  S8: Yeah, God is on the move, particularly in the area
• 35:11
  S8: that I work in on providing clean drinking water. I'll
• 35:14
  S8: give you a little bit of facts here. Since the
• 35:16
  S8: year 2000, the world has reached 2.1 billion people with
• 35:21
  S8: clean water. There's 700 million left to reach, but we've
• 35:25
  S8: come way further than the distance we have to go
• 35:27
  S8: to finish the job. And so we believe that. We
• 35:29
  S8: believe that we can solve the global water crisis. World
• 35:32
  S8: vision is leading that effort. And in fact, we've picked
• 35:35
  S8: countries where usually we're the largest not for profit and said,
• 35:38
  S8: let's reach everybody everywhere. We work in an entire country.
• 35:43
  S8: And we did it. We reached 1,200,000 people in Rwanda.
• 35:47
  S8: The government helped fund the work because they want to
• 35:50
  S8: reach their people, and they signed off saying, yes, you
• 35:53
  S8: have finished the job. Now we're celebrating this year doing
• 35:56
  S8: the same thing in Zambia, where we reached a million people.
• 35:59
  S8: Then we're doing Honduras will finish in 2028. And next
• 36:03
  S8: up is Ghana, one of our biggest efforts ever. Because
• 36:05
  S8: not only do we provide clean water for the people
• 36:08
  S8: and typically villages that we're working in, but we're also
• 36:10
  S8: upgrading the schools with water and hand washing and and
• 36:14
  S8: decent latrines and health care centers. That's really important because
• 36:19
  S8: in the developing world, in places like where World Vision works,
• 36:22
  S8: half of health care centers don't have clean water, and
• 36:25
  S8: only 1 in 6 have handwashing with soap and water.
• 36:29
  S8: So infections spread unless we do that work to upgrade
• 36:32
  S8: them with water, with handwashing, with showers, so women don't
• 36:36
  S8: have to bring water to the clinic to wash themselves
• 36:38
  S8: and the newborns after giving birth.
• 36:40
  S2: It's awesome.
• 36:41
  S4: What would you say? Because everybody listening, you get inspired,
• 36:44
  S4: you get excited, and everybody wants to make a difference.
• 36:47
  S4: We're hard wired as image bearers to want to impact
• 36:51
  S4: the world for good, but it can be difficult to know. Okay,
• 36:54
  S4: what does that look like for me? What do how
• 36:57
  S4: does God want me in my corner of the world
• 37:00
  S4: to make an impact? How do you advise the believer
• 37:03
  S4: to start to look for that opportunity? You don't want
• 37:06
  S4: to just jump on any old bandwagon and say, this
• 37:08
  S4: is who I'm going to serve, because this is in
• 37:10
  S4: front of me. Or maybe you do.
• 37:12
  S8: That's a great question. I think everyone a unique, true
• 37:14
  S8: purpose in their life, and it's not always easy to
• 37:17
  S8: find it. It wasn't easy for me to find it,
• 37:19
  S8: but one of the things you can do is figure
• 37:20
  S8: out what are, what are your natural strengths, what are
• 37:22
  S8: the talents that God has given you? And you may
• 37:24
  S8: need to build those up. So what are you good
• 37:26
  S8: at and what fuels you? What are your passions? And
• 37:29
  S8: if you begin praying about it, listen to what God's
• 37:32
  S8: telling you. You'll find those for the high flyers. It
• 37:35
  S8: may be a little adjustment in their mindset. They may
• 37:38
  S8: already know what their strengths are, right? Yeah. And so
• 37:40
  S8: it may be asking like, why am I here? Not
• 37:43
  S8: what can I accomplish next? You know, what's not the
• 37:46
  S8: next thing I can put on my resume? But what
• 37:48
  S8: do I want people to say at my eulogy, and
• 37:51
  S8: that little adjustment may make all the difference for someone
• 37:53
  S8: who really thinks they already have it figured out because
• 37:55
  S8: they may not.
• 37:57
  S9: Oh.
• 37:57
  S2: Doctor. Greg. All good. Our guest and he's written a
• 38:00
  S2: book and I love the title thirsty for a miracle.
• 38:04
  S2: You got to love that title.
• 38:06
  S4: I love it. Just text world to 805 557898. Just
• 38:11
  S4: text world to 805 557898.
• 38:16
  S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the cast and
• 38:18
  S1: crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
• 38:22
  S2: So let me give you a core truth. The grace
• 38:24
  S2: of God saves us. And the grace of God trains us.
• 38:27
  S2: It's all God's grace, this human effort thing. That's one
• 38:32
  S2: of the big myths that we're trying to dispel here
• 38:34
  S2: every morning with Carl and crew. Now do we effort? Yes,
• 38:38
  S2: but you effort in relationship and in concert with the
• 38:44
  S2: Holy Spirit that is at work in your life. This
• 38:47
  S2: is not bootstrapping it. And the big miss that we
• 38:50
  S2: have in our culture today is if you get that
• 38:54
  S2: we are saved by grace alone, that it is his
• 38:58
  S2: work that regenerates us. The, the, the next threshold that
• 39:04
  S2: we got to walk through, that we've been through. This
• 39:06
  S2: has been a little dicier. We've put on ourselves the
• 39:12
  S2: need to get our lives squared away.
• 39:14
  S7: Yeah.
• 39:14
  S4: Yeah.
• 39:15
  S2: And it doesn't work. The same posture that saves you
• 39:19
  S2: is the posture that's going to grow you. And we
• 39:22
  S2: see that over and over again. But it's this point
• 39:25
  S2: of blessed are the poor in spirit. There's this kingdom
• 39:27
  S2: of heaven being poor in spirit and spiritually bankrupt. Understanding
• 39:31
  S2: our need for God is not just good for a
• 39:34
  S2: point in time, but for all time. That's the secret
• 39:38
  S2: to the abundant life recognizing without him, I got nothing here.
• 39:42
  S2: There's a core truth.
• 39:43
  S4: I mean, saving grace and training grace. The grace of
• 39:47
  S4: God saves us. The grace of God trains us and
• 39:49
  S4: we can't miss that.
• 39:51
  S2: Titus 211 and 12. If you want to highlight a
• 39:53
  S2: couple of verses that will really anchor you in that
• 39:57
  S2: core truth, Titus 211 and 12. I think it's the
• 40:02
  S2: best encapsulation of God's work, both to save us from
• 40:09
  S2: our sin and to grow us up into this new
• 40:12
  S2: life in Christ. I can't think of two better verses
• 40:14
  S2: anywhere in the Scripture right there. Titus 211 and 12.
• 40:18
  S2: So we're talking core truths. Why is it important to
• 40:21
  S2: pin down core truths?
• 40:23
  S4: Well, because I think if you're not clear on what
• 40:25
  S4: the core truths are, you know, people talk about keeping
• 40:28
  S4: the first thing or the first or the main thing,
• 40:30
  S4: the main thing. It's easy to get pulled off into
• 40:33
  S4: a lot of other directions on things that aren't core truth.
• 40:37
  S4: So you can find yourself, you've found yourself arguing with
• 40:40
  S4: somebody about anything, and then you're like, stop and go,
• 40:44
  S4: does this really matter? Like is it could be in marriage.
• 40:48
  S4: It could be in parenting. When you lose the core
• 40:51
  S4: truth of like, what is foundational to a relationship, a job,
• 40:56
  S4: you get pulled in directions that aren't helpful.
• 40:59
  S2: I would say most. I'm sitting here cogitating on what
• 41:02
  S2: you said. I think most relationships experience divides over things
• 41:09
  S2: that don't matter at all.
• 41:11
  S7: No.
• 41:12
  S4: And every once in a while, by the power of
• 41:14
  S4: the Holy Spirit, you realize it in the middle of it,
• 41:16
  S4: and then you go, all right, hold it. What are
• 41:20
  S4: we doing?
• 41:22
  S2: Oh, boy. When I was when I was a young man, uh,
• 41:26
  S2: at Bible college. I, like many freshmen. Uh, I came
• 41:32
  S2: into Bible college with all kinds of core convictions. And
• 41:36
  S2: I think I was less rabid than some because I
• 41:39
  S2: was still just enamored with the grace of God that
• 41:41
  S2: had saved my soul not too many months, year and
• 41:45
  S2: a half before. Is that right? Wow. It's pretty early
• 41:49
  S2: on to go to Bible college. So I went off
• 41:51
  S2: to Bible college and I, but I, I held on
• 41:54
  S2: to some things that candidly, looking back, I didn't know
• 41:57
  S2: anything about in relative to what I needed to know
• 42:03
  S2: to hold that firm a conviction. Sure. So it's important
• 42:07
  S2: for us to whittle down what are the core truths
• 42:10
  S2: that we're holding on to and even ask the question,
• 42:13
  S2: why am I going to the wall for this issue?
• 42:15
  S2: Because that can that can take the pressure off a
• 42:18
  S2: little bit and whittle it down to what's most important.
• 42:20
  S4: Now, I think this is especially true in terms of
• 42:23
  S4: how we look at our fellow Christians, our fellow believers.
• 42:27
  S4: Sometimes we can get so divided and just get on
• 42:31
  S4: Facebook for like 2.5 minutes. And you see so many
• 42:33
  S4: people who are divided on things that are not core truths.
• 42:37
  S2: We get that, right.
• 42:38
  S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 42:42
  S2: So I was looking around for a worship leader, and
• 42:44
  S2: we needed a worship leader because the only guy I had,
• 42:47
  S2: we would start the band with one two, you know
• 42:50
  S2: what to do. And he had a trumpet and then
• 42:52
  S2: he would start playing a song. No, I'm not joking,
• 42:55
  S2: you guys man. One, two. You know what to do. Oh, man.
• 43:00
  S2: And I needed something a little bit different because we
• 43:03
  S2: had this growing group of single adults. And man, I
• 43:06
  S2: got on the horn and I'm calling all over the
• 43:09
  S2: nation and the world. And I found a guy in Portland.
• 43:12
  S2: He goes, you got to find this guy. And then
• 43:14
  S2: I wanted to check it out. And so I found
• 43:16
  S2: a guy who said, oh, you got to be careful
• 43:19
  S2: with this guy. But the guy who told me to
• 43:20
  S2: be careful with this guy I was leery about. So
• 43:23
  S2: I'm like, oh, this is a good recommendation. See how
• 43:26
  S2: we got see how we got.
• 43:28
  S10: Confirmed with the bad advice, right? If he doesn't like him,
• 43:31
  S10: then I know I love him.
• 43:32
  S2: So I called this guy up and I didn't know
• 43:34
  S2: what I was getting. I didn't know what I bargained
• 43:36
  S2: for here, but I said to him, hey, I understand
• 43:39
  S2: you're a worship leader. This is what God's doing here.
• 43:42
  S2: And and I said, you know, man, we're needing you.
• 43:47
  S2: Do you feel a call here? And he inquired a
• 43:49
  S2: little bit more and he asked, you know, you know what,
• 43:52
  S2: what comes with something like this? And I said, I
• 43:55
  S2: promise you, we will have food for you to eat
• 43:59
  S2: and shelter. And that's what that was the offer. We're
• 44:02
  S2: going to have all the food you can eat and
• 44:04
  S2: we're going to have shelter for you. So we found
• 44:07
  S2: a place for him to flop, and he showed up
• 44:08
  S2: and we kept groceries in the reefer and.
• 44:11
  S9: Refrigerator.
• 44:13
  S2: Refrigerator, and he showed up. And all joking aside, my
• 44:18
  S2: life was changed because this is a real dude. This
• 44:21
  S2: is a real, genuine disciple of Christ. At least that's
• 44:25
  S2: the way I remember it.
• 44:26
  S11: Greg Dempster It was pretty close. You should have taken
• 44:29
  S11: that first guy's advice. But those were sweet times. I mean,
• 44:35
  S11: really the way that we the way that I remember
• 44:38
  S11: it was desperation and inability. Colliding with all the provisioning
• 44:44
  S11: that God promises to bring. We would fast and pray
• 44:48
  S11: and God would show up. I still remember your wife
• 44:50
  S11: up in the catwalk of that room that we were in,
• 44:53
  S11: just with a team of people interceding over every word,
• 44:57
  S11: every note played, everything that was happening in that room,
• 45:00
  S11: in that ministry in one year grew 400% in size.
• 45:04
  S11: Not just people showing up, but people who are hungry
• 45:07
  S11: to encounter God.
• 45:08
  S9: Yeah.
• 45:09
  S4: Greg Dempster is our guest this morning, founder and director
• 45:11
  S4: of Christ Life Ministries. Talk a little bit about the
• 45:14
  S4: role that prayer played in that time in your life. Greg,
• 45:18
  S4: what did you learn during that season?
• 45:20
  S11: Well, that we had nothing to bring to the table
• 45:23
  S11: that was going to turn this ship other than God
• 45:27
  S11: showing up and, and we need to get out of
• 45:30
  S11: his way. It was actually Carl's wife, Junan, who made
• 45:34
  S11: the suggestion that we fast and pray for 40 days.
• 45:36
  S11: So we went 40 days, no food prayer, walking in
• 45:39
  S11: that room every afternoon. And God made the change. It
• 45:45
  S11: wasn't our performance that somehow brought about the results that
• 45:49
  S11: we experienced. It was God getting us out of the way,
• 45:52
  S11: showing us that we needed him, showing us in Technicolor.
• 45:55
  S11: John 155 that we can do nothing apart from him.
• 45:58
  S11: And so when we surrendered ourselves, continued to surrender ourselves
• 46:02
  S11: to him, humble ourselves before him, we got out of
• 46:05
  S11: the way and God began to use normal, real, imperfect
• 46:09
  S11: people and display himself as the God that he is.
• 46:12
  S11: And that's, that's really prayer became that language of need
• 46:16
  S11: in that season.
• 46:17
  S9: Yeah.
• 46:17
  S2: It was so real. It was so palpable. Greg, you
• 46:21
  S2: brought with yourself, uh, an experience in a northwest renewal movement,
• 46:27
  S2: and you brought four principles of prayer that really guided
• 46:32
  S2: us in, in a powerful way. Give the backstory on
• 46:36
  S2: that just quickly, but then give those principles because I
• 46:39
  S2: want our boom crew to get these today. These are
• 46:42
  S2: these are like timeless principles.
• 46:44
  S11: You see, first of all, you're hearing from a guy
• 46:47
  S11: who is far from having it figured out. And back
• 46:51
  S11: in that season, I had just encountered Christ. I left
• 46:54
  S11: a a life of drug use. Even though my parents,
• 46:58
  S11: my dad was a pastor, my mom, church organist, I,
• 47:02
  S11: I just was looking for life and, and just completely
• 47:06
  S11: made a wreck of my life and encountered Christ while
• 47:09
  S11: high on drugs, uh, surrendered my life to him. And
• 47:14
  S11: that began a massive upheaval in a positive way in
• 47:18
  S11: my life that led to a sense of, of calling,
• 47:22
  S11: a desire to be used by God, and led me
• 47:25
  S11: to Multnomah Bible College back in the day. Joe Aldridge
• 47:28
  S11: was the the president, Terry Dirks was a partner of
• 47:33
  S11: his in a vision, a dream. And that dream started
• 47:36
  S11: off with this sense of just being tired of conferencing.
• 47:40
  S11: Pastors are constantly getting invited to go to conferences, and
• 47:45
  S11: Joe and Terry early on said, what would happen if,
• 47:49
  S11: instead of a conference, we invited northwest pastors to a
• 47:53
  S11: three day event where we do. We have no agenda,
• 47:56
  S11: and we do nothing other than seek the face of God.
• 48:00
  S11: And that began an explosion of movement of new life
• 48:04
  S11: in the churches in the Pacific Northwest. Ultimately, it grew
• 48:08
  S11: into international renewal where they were doing these three day
• 48:13
  S11: agenda less seasons of pursuing God all over the world
• 48:16
  S11: and Taiwan, China, Germany, all over the the nations, all
• 48:21
  S11: over the globe. God was stirring renewal. And it was
• 48:25
  S11: in that season that that Terry Dirksen, I think he
• 48:28
  S11: just thought, this kid needs massive help. I'm going to
• 48:31
  S11: take him under my wing and disciple him for a season,
• 48:34
  S11: and we would pray, walk Multnomah and seek God's face
• 48:38
  S11: in the midst of this massive movement globally. And that
• 48:42
  S11: started the whole collegiate Division of Northwest Renewal, International Renewal,
• 48:46
  S11: where we brought college students. A friend of mine, Mike Pellicelli,
• 48:50
  S11: and I, would bring college students together for three days
• 48:53
  S11: of seeking the face of God, and it just changed
• 48:55
  S11: all of our lives.
• 48:56
  S4: You know, Greg, what you mentioned, what you're talking about
• 49:00
  S4: is both exciting and maybe a little daunting. Why is
• 49:03
  S4: it that we so struggle with pursuing God without programming?
• 49:09
  S4: I mean, we, we love our, our, our flow of,
• 49:13
  S4: of service and the, the almost, I hate to say it,
• 49:17
  S4: but we do kind of like the predictability of knowing
• 49:19
  S4: what's going to happen. But we know that with God,
• 49:22
  S4: we can't. Why do we struggle with that tension?
• 49:26
  S11: I think it's a human struggle. I think that Romans
• 49:30
  S11: eight lays it out. Paul suggests that we have either
• 49:33
  S11: phronema an orientation towards the flesh or towards self-effort, or
• 49:38
  S11: towards God in the spirit. And I think that in
• 49:41
  S11: our flesh we like to keep things under control. We
• 49:45
  S11: like to make sure that that we're performing to the
• 49:48
  S11: highest possibility so that we can gain or yield the
• 49:53
  S11: largest amounts of value. It's just all a self-effort thing.
• 49:57
  S11: And then I think also for some, they've had experiences
• 50:00
  S11: in the past where they're just like flipped out by,
• 50:03
  S11: by what was happening in the prayer house.
• 50:06
  S2: A little wacky. Yeah.
• 50:08
  S11: Right. Or else it was just absolutely dead. And they're thinking,
• 50:10
  S11: oh my gosh, yes. What am I going to do? Yeah.
• 50:13
  S11: So they, they want control. And yet at the same time,
• 50:17
  S11: exerting themselves into the equation is something that's directly interfering
• 50:23
  S11: with God doing what he wants to do in them
• 50:25
  S11: and through them.
• 50:26
  S2: You know, Greg, the four principles that you brought to
• 50:29
  S2: us in little Rock from the Northwest renewal movement were protection, direction. God,
• 50:35
  S2: manifest your presence here. And it's all based in truth.
• 50:39
  S2: I'll never forget those four. Greg. It's those were transformative.
• 50:43
  S2: Speak to those for a moment.
• 50:45
  S11: You know, Terry and Joe in the early days had
• 50:48
  S11: a tiger by the tail. They had all these senior
• 50:51
  S11: pastors showing up in one location. And all these guys
• 50:55
  S11: want to do is preach and prove themselves. Not all
• 50:58
  S11: of them, but a lot of them. And, and so
• 51:01
  S11: in the early days, just to provide a sense of direction,
• 51:05
  S11: they would start each one of these three hour rhythms
• 51:08
  S11: of prayer. And that's what they were. You'd wake up
• 51:10
  S11: in the morning, have breakfast, three hours of prayer, you'd
• 51:13
  S11: do some lunch, connect three hours of prayer, a break
• 51:17
  S11: and then dinner, and then another three hour segment of prayer.
• 51:21
  S11: But they would get these guys together. There was a
• 51:23
  S11: facilitating team and they would say, today, we're going to
• 51:26
  S11: start off this session in the same way that we
• 51:28
  S11: started off the last asking for God's protection. Because what
• 51:34
  S11: we're doing here is, is directly, in many different ways,
• 51:38
  S11: opposing the kingdom of darkness, which is all about empowering self.
• 51:45
  S11: So we're asking for God's protection in believing that there's
• 51:47
  S11: real protection that can be found in the name of Jesus.
• 51:52
  S11: We're also, number two, asking for the Spirit of God
• 51:55
  S11: to be unleashed on us so that he directs our steps,
• 51:59
  S11: so that we're filled with the sense of the direction
• 52:02
  S11: that God wants to bring this time together. And they
• 52:06
  S11: also would encourage pastors to just to listen. I mean,
• 52:09
  S11: if somebody over here is praying for renewal of the
• 52:12
  S11: Church of Portland, maybe we should stay with that until
• 52:16
  S11: God directs us to go in a different direction. So
• 52:19
  S11: protection direction, asking God to fill that time with his presence. Well,
• 52:24
  S11: when God's presence manifests itself, when God chooses to reveal
• 52:30
  S11: what's already true. Psalm 139 says, there's nowhere we can
• 52:33
  S11: flee from his presence. When God chooses by the power
• 52:36
  S11: of His Holy Spirit to unveil our eyes so that
• 52:39
  S11: we can see him and experience him. It's just like,
• 52:42
  S11: better put on the seatbelt because things begin to happen
• 52:46
  S11: dynamically and and then finally, the last one is to
• 52:50
  S11: just be filled with truth that God wants to place
• 52:54
  S11: guardrails on our time. That that the things that are
• 52:58
  S11: prayed need to be just based on biblical truth, that,
• 53:02
  S11: that the truth really paves the way for us to
• 53:06
  S11: more quickly move towards God and His purposes in that
• 53:10
  S11: prayer gathering that you're a part of. And so yeah,
• 53:12
  S11: those four things were a baseline for, for what we
• 53:16
  S11: did with international renewal.
• 53:18
  S2: Yeah. Protection direction. Manifest presence of God's Spirit and truth.
• 53:26
  S2: Just repeating those again for you. Boom crew. And I
• 53:29
  S2: want you to know something. Boom crew. Greg and I
• 53:32
  S2: have done a lot of ministry together over the years
• 53:35
  S2: in little Rock and in Alaska and now in Chicago,
• 53:38
  S2: in Greg's in Michigan. And it's been awesome to witness.
• 53:42
  S2: But I want you to know, just in a word,
• 53:46
  S2: I've had two tastes of, of what I call many
• 53:49
  S2: localized awakenings. And they were all due to prayer. And
• 53:55
  S2: I love of what we've been touching on here lately.
• 54:00
  S2: George Mueller is the one who said prayer is about
• 54:04
  S2: taking hold of the willingness of God. I think oftentimes
• 54:09
  S2: we head into prayer going, boy, is he reluctant or
• 54:11
  S2: is he going to move? And I want you to
• 54:14
  S2: know that Mueller was right. We can take hold of
• 54:17
  S2: God's willingness in prayer, Protection, direction, manifest presence, and truth.
• 54:24
  S2: Consider that for your prayer huddle this week. You two pastors. Well,
• 54:29
  S2: we want to put you on to Greg. Man, this
• 54:31
  S2: guy's got resources galore that work from the inside out,
• 54:35
  S2: don't they, Ali?
• 54:35
  S4: Yes, yes. You can text life to 805 557898, text
• 54:41
  S4: life to 805 557898. Check out those resources we've mentioned before,
• 54:48
  S4: the journey workbook, working through some of those family of
• 54:52
  S4: origin issues. This is going to be a great little
• 54:55
  S4: resource pod for you. There's a lot there. Just text
• 54:58
  S4: life to 805 five, five, 78, 98.
• 55:02
  S2: Hey, this is Carl with Carl and crew, and I'm
• 55:04
  S2: so grateful that you listened to this show cast. Thank
• 55:07
  S2: you mostly for being part of the boom crew as
• 55:09
  S2: we help you take your next step with Jesus, you're
• 55:12
  S2: a huge encouragement to us. We'll be here again live
• 55:15
  S2: every weekday morning from 5 to 9 a.m.. Godspeed.