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Transcript

Amipotence Unveiled: Good Friday Conversations on Love and Control - The Whole Church Podcast · Systematic Geekology

0:38
First
0:38
Peter
0:39
2:21
0:40
25
0:41
say,
0:42
for
0:42
you
0:42
were
0:42
called
0:43
to
0:43
this
0:43
because
0:44
Christ
0:44
also
0:44
suffered
0:45
for
0:45
you,
0:46
leaving
0:46
you
0:46
an
0:46
example
0:47
that
0:47
you
0:47
should
0:47
follow
0:48
in
0:48
his
0:48
steps.
0:49
He
0:49
did
0:49
not
0:49
commit
0:50
sin,
0:50
and
0:50
no
0:51
deceit
0:51
was
0:51
found
0:51
in
0:51
his
0:52
mouth.
0:52
When
0:52
he
0:52
was
0:53
insulted,
0:54
he
0:54
did
0:54
not
0:54
insult
0:55
in
0:55
return.
0:56
When
0:56
he
0:56
suffered,
0:57
he
0:57
did
0:57
not
0:58
threaten,
0:58
but
0:58
entrusted
0:59
himself
0:59
to
1:00
the
1:00
one
1:00
who
1:00
judges
1:01
justly.
1:02
He
1:03
Himself
1:04
bore
1:04
our
1:05
sins
1:05
in
1:05
his
1:05
body
1:06
on
1:06
the
1:06
tree,
1:07
so
1:07
that
1:07
having
1:07
died
1:08
to
1:08
sins,
1:09
we
1:09
might
1:09
live
1:09
for
1:10
righteousness.
1:10
By
1:11
his
1:11
wounds
1:11
you
1:11
have
1:12
been
1:12
healed,
1:13
for
1:13
you
1:13
were
1:13
like
1:14
sheep
1:14
going
1:14
astray,
1:15
but
1:15
you
1:16
have
1:16
now
1:16
returned
1:17
to
1:17
the
1:17
shepherd
1:18
and
1:18
overseer
1:19
of
1:19
your
1:20
souls.
1:21
In
1:21
this
1:21
pricopy
1:22
the
1:22
author
1:23
is
1:23
describing
1:24
the
1:24
response
1:25
we
1:25
should
1:25
have
1:25
to
1:25
Jesus's
1:26
sacrificial
1:27
love.
1:28
Dr.
1:28
Ord,
1:29
for
1:30
this
1:30
Good
1:30
Friday,
1:31
what
1:32
do
1:32
you
1:32
think
1:32
Jesus
1:32
sacrifice
1:33
truly
1:33
accomplished?
1:34
And
1:34
how
1:34
should
1:35
we
1:35
look
1:36
to
1:36
this
1:36
event
1:37
as
1:37
an
1:37
example,
1:37
in
1:38
your
1:38
opinion?
1:39
I
1:39
think
1:39
Jesus
1:40
was
1:40
killed
1:40
by
1:40
the
1:41
Empire.
1:41
I
1:41
think
1:42
Jesus
1:42
could
1:43
have
1:43
used
1:43
violence
1:44
to
1:44
try
1:44
to
1:44
resist
1:45
the
1:45
Empire.
1:46
He
1:46
may
1:46
or
1:46
may
1:46
not
1:46
have
1:47
succeeded,
1:47
but
1:48
he
1:48
chose
1:48
not
1:49
to
1:49
use
1:49
violence
1:50
and
1:51
ended
1:51
up
1:51
dying
1:52
because
1:52
of
1:53
decisions
1:53
made
1:54
by
1:54
those
1:54
in
1:54
power.
1:55
In
1:55
the
1:56
time
1:56
of
1:56
Trump.
1:57
We
1:57
have
1:57
something
1:57
to
1:57
learn
1:58
from
1:58
Jesus.
1:59
We
1:59
should
1:59
resist
2:00
Empire,
2:01
but
2:01
do
2:01
it
2:02
non
2:02
violently.
2:10
Hey
2:10
everybody,
2:11
welcome
2:11
to
2:11
the
2:12
Whole
2:12
Church
2:12
Podcast
2:13
special
2:14
bonus
2:15
episode.
2:15
We're
2:16
excited
2:16
to
2:16
do
2:16
for
2:17
you
2:17
guys
2:18
part
2:18
of
2:18
an
2:19
ongoing,
2:20
I
2:20
guess
2:20
trilogy
2:21
on
2:21
the
2:21
Amazon
2:22
Podcast
2:22
Network.
2:23
You
2:24
know,
2:24
starting
2:24
this
2:25
off
2:25
was
2:26
way
2:26
back
2:27
when
2:27
originally,
2:28
really,
2:29
truly,
2:29
we're
2:30
like
2:30
the
2:30
origins.
2:32
Dr.
2:32
Thomas
2:33
J.
2:33
Ord
2:33
wrote
2:34
a
2:34
book,
2:34
the
2:34
Death
2:34
of
2:34
Omnipotence
2:35
in
2:35
the
2:36
Birth
2:36
of
2:36
Amnipotence.
2:37
I
2:37
think
2:37
that's
2:37
correct.
2:38
And
2:38
then
2:39
recently
2:40
there
2:41
was
2:41
a
2:41
two
2:41
volume
2:42
set
2:42
that
2:42
he
2:42
orchestrated
2:43
of
2:43
critiques
2:44
and
2:44
criticisms
2:45
and
2:45
expansions
2:45
and
2:46
support
2:46
for
2:46
his
2:47
idea
2:47
of
2:47
omnipotence.
2:48
And
2:48
then
2:49
we
2:49
did
2:49
a
2:49
panel
2:49
of
2:49
that
2:49
on
2:50
the
2:50
Whole
2:50
Church
2:50
podcast.
2:51
I
2:51
think
2:51
that
2:51
was
2:52
back
2:52
in
2:52
February.
2:53
That
2:53
was
2:54
with
2:54
Thomas
2:54
J.
2:54
Ord,
2:55
Josh
2:56
Patterson,
2:56
myself
2:57
and
2:57
Aaron
2:57
Simmons.
2:58
From
2:59
that
2:59
did
2:59
I
2:59
mention
3:00
Nick
3:00
Polk?
3:00
Nick
3:00
Polk.
3:01
And
3:02
from
3:02
that
3:03
I
3:03
realized
3:04
Nick,
3:05
who's
3:05
part
3:05
of
3:06
the
3:06
book,
3:06
was
3:07
talking
3:07
about
3:07
like
3:07
pop
3:07
culture
3:08
references
3:08
and
3:08
how
3:08
we
3:08
see
3:09
that
3:09
the
3:09
culture
3:09
also
3:10
doesn't
3:10
really
3:10
like
3:10
this
3:10
idea
3:11
of
3:11
omnipotence.
3:12
And
3:12
I
3:12
was
3:12
like,
3:13
wait,
3:13
why?
3:13
Why
3:14
didn't
3:14
we
3:14
talk
3:14
about
3:14
Mr.
3:14
Purple
3:15
in
3:15
that?
3:16
So
3:16
then
3:17
we
3:17
did
3:18
a
3:18
whole
3:18
research
3:19
project,
3:19
me,
3:20
Nick
3:20
Polk,
3:20
and
3:21
then
3:21
Pastor
3:21
Will
3:22
Rose,
3:22
friend
3:22
of
3:22
the
3:22
show.
3:23
Also
3:23
one
3:23
of
3:23
the
3:23
other
3:23
hosts
3:24
on
3:24
Systematic
3:25
Ecology
3:26
read
3:27
the
3:27
omnibus
3:28
of
3:29
the
3:29
Alias
3:30
comics,
3:30
Alias
3:31
Jessica
3:31
Jones,
3:32
as
3:32
well
3:32
as
3:32
rewatch
3:32
the
3:33
Netflix
3:34
season
3:34
one
3:35
of
3:35
the
3:35
same
3:35
show,
3:36
Jessica
3:36
Jones.
3:37
And
3:37
we
3:37
kind
3:37
of
3:38
Reviewed
3:38
it,
3:38
thinking
3:39
about
3:39
it
3:39
through
3:39
the
3:39
lens
3:40
of
3:40
this
3:40
idea
3:40
of
3:40
omnipotence,
3:41
controlling
3:42
power,
3:42
coercive
3:43
love,
3:43
and
3:43
omnipotence.
3:44
And
3:45
now
3:45
to
3:45
close
3:45
off
3:46
the
3:46
podcast
3:46
trilogy.
3:47
So
3:47
we
3:47
did
3:47
the
3:47
first
3:47
one
3:48
on
3:48
the
3:48
whole
3:48
church
3:48
podcast.
3:49
We
3:49
did
3:49
the
3:49
second
3:49
one
3:49
on
3:49
systematic
3:50
ecology.
3:50
Now
3:51
we're
3:51
back
3:51
on
3:51
the
3:51
whole
3:51
church
3:51
podcast,
3:52
and
3:53
Dr.
3:54
Thomas
3:54
J.
3:54
Ord
3:55
and
3:55
Josh
3:55
Patterson
3:56
are
3:56
going
3:56
to
3:56
tell
3:57
me
3:57
how
3:57
terrible
3:58
the
3:58
podcast
3:58
on
3:59
systematic
3:59
ecology
3:59
was
4:00
and
4:00
how
4:00
we
4:01
all
4:01
are
4:01
going
4:02
to
4:02
go
4:02
to
4:02
hell.
4:02
But
4:02
hell
4:03
doesn't
4:03
exist,
4:03
so
4:04
that
4:04
doesn't
4:04
make
4:04
sense.
4:05
So
4:05
then
4:05
we're
4:05
going
4:05
to
4:05
have
4:05
to,
4:05
like,
4:06
explain
4:06
that
4:06
paradox
4:07
and,
4:07
like,
4:07
a
4:08
whole
4:08
separate
4:08
trilogy.
4:10
But
4:11
that's
4:11
what
4:11
we're
4:11
here
4:12
to
4:12
do
4:12
today.
4:12
I'm
4:12
excited
4:13
to
4:13
have
4:13
Josh
4:13
Patterson
4:14
and
4:14
Thomas
4:14
J.
4:14
Ord
4:15
back
4:15
with
4:15
us
4:15
today
4:16
to
4:16
continue
4:17
this
4:17
conversation.
4:17
Guys,
4:18
thank
4:18
you
4:18
so
4:18
much
4:18
for
4:19
joining
4:19
me
4:19
in
4:19
my
4:20
convoluted
4:21
nonsense.
4:22
Thanks
4:22
for
4:22
the
4:22
opportunity.
4:23
Yeah,
4:23
yeah.
4:24
I'm
4:24
always
4:24
excited
4:25
to
4:25
talk
4:25
theology.
4:26
And
4:26
when
4:27
we
4:27
can
4:27
get
4:27
nerdy
4:27
with
4:27
the
4:28
two,
4:28
it's
4:28
a.
4:28
It's
4:28
a
4:29
fun
4:29
time.
4:30
And
4:30
the
4:30
reason
4:30
this
4:30
one's
4:31
back
4:31
over
4:31
here
4:31
is
4:32
mostly
4:32
because
4:32
I'm
4:33
hoping
4:33
this
4:33
can
4:33
kind
4:33
of
4:33
show
4:33
us
4:34
where
4:34
maybe
4:34
we
4:34
have
4:34
some
4:34
disagreements
4:35
here
4:35
and
4:35
there
4:36
and
4:36
we're
4:36
not.
4:37
Or
4:37
tweaks
4:38
on
4:38
the
4:38
same
4:39
idea,
4:39
maybe,
4:39
but
4:40
we
4:40
could
4:40
still
4:40
work
4:40
together
4:41
in
4:41
unity
4:42
for
4:42
those
4:42
who
4:43
are
4:43
truly
4:43
in
4:43
Christ,
4:44
which
4:44
I
4:44
think
4:44
means
4:45
in
4:45
love,
4:45
which
4:46
is
4:46
very
4:46
close
4:47
to
4:47
a
4:47
lot
4:47
of
4:47
what
4:47
Dr.
4:48
Ord,
4:48
I
4:48
think
4:48
is
4:48
getting
4:49
at
4:49
in
4:49
all
4:49
this
4:49
idea.
4:50
So
4:50
that's
4:50
what
4:50
we're
4:50
going
4:50
to
4:50
be
4:50
unpacking.
4:51
The
4:51
only
4:52
one
4:52
of
4:52
us
4:52
who
4:52
has
4:52
not
4:53
listened
4:53
to
4:53
that
4:53
podcast
4:54
is
4:54
TJ
4:54
Tiberious
4:55
Mom
4:55
Blackwell.
4:55
And
4:56
that's
4:56
because
4:56
he
4:56
already
4:56
knows
4:57
all
4:57
things,
4:57
so
4:57
he
4:58
doesn't
4:58
need
4:58
to
4:58
listen
4:58
to
4:58
podcast.
5:00
Yeah,
5:01
yeah.
5:01
I
5:01
just
5:01
don't
5:01
really
5:01
like
5:02
podcasts.
5:03
Yeah,
5:03
yeah.
5:03
But
5:04
it's
5:04
because
5:04
he
5:04
created
5:05
them,
5:05
so
5:06
he's
5:06
already
5:06
over,
5:06
you
5:07
know.
5:07
Yeah.
5:08
So
5:08
welcome
5:08
to
5:08
your
5:08
show.
5:09
Welcome
5:09
to
5:09
your
5:09
podcast
5:10
that
5:10
you
5:10
love
5:10
to
5:11
not
5:11
listen
5:11
to.
5:12
Thank
5:12
you.
5:13
Thank
5:13
you.
5:14
If
5:14
you
5:15
don't
5:15
agree
5:15
with
5:15
me
5:16
and
5:16
you
5:16
actually
5:16
quite
5:16
like
5:17
podcasts,
5:17
you
5:17
should
5:17
check
5:18
out
5:18
the
5:18
other
5:18
ones
5:18
on
5:18
the
5:19
Onazow
5:19
Podcast
5:20
Network
5:20
website.
5:21
Link
5:21
is
5:22
below
5:22
to
5:22
check
5:23
that
5:23
out.
5:23
And
5:23
then
5:24
if
5:24
you
5:24
feel
5:25
like
5:25
supporting
5:25
us
5:26
when
5:26
I
5:26
won't
5:27
do
5:27
it,
5:28
you
5:29
know,
5:29
other
5:29
than
5:29
monetarily,
5:30
because
5:30
I
5:30
do
5:30
do
5:30
that,
5:32
but
5:32
you
5:32
can,
5:32
like,
5:33
subscribe.
5:33
It's
5:34
super
5:34
helpful.
5:34
It's
5:35
the
5:35
easiest
5:35
thing
5:35
in
5:35
the
5:35
world.
5:36
Helps
5:36
us
5:36
a
5:37
lot.
5:37
Also,
5:37
you
5:37
lost.
5:38
You
5:39
said
5:39
doo
5:39
doo.
5:40
I
5:40
did,
5:40
yeah,
5:41
yeah,
5:41
yeah.
5:43
Finally,
5:44
guys,
5:44
before
5:45
we
5:45
get
5:45
to
5:45
the
5:45
meat
5:45
of
5:46
this.
5:46
You
5:46
guys
5:46
know
5:46
I
5:46
always
5:47
like
5:47
to
5:47
start
5:47
with
5:47
silly
5:47
question.
5:48
And
5:48
I
5:48
thought
5:48
about
5:48
skipping
5:49
it
5:49
because
5:49
this
5:49
is
5:49
just
5:49
a.
5:50
This
5:50
is
5:50
a
5:50
bonus.
5:51
But
5:51
then
5:51
I
5:51
thought
5:51
of
5:52
a
5:52
great
5:52
one.
5:52
Since
5:53
this
5:53
is
5:53
going
5:53
to
5:53
be
5:53
releasing
5:53
on
5:54
Good
5:54
Friday,
5:55
I
5:55
was
5:55
like,
5:55
I
5:55
know
5:56
what
5:56
we'll
5:56
do.
5:56
Especially
5:57
if
5:57
I
5:57
have
5:57
Josh
5:58
Patterson,
5:59
we'll
5:59
get
5:59
as
5:59
heretical
6:00
as
6:00
I
6:01
think
6:01
we
6:01
can.
6:02
That's
6:02
what
6:02
I'm
6:02
gonna
6:02
do.
6:02
I'm
6:03
gonna
6:03
be
6:03
completely
6:03
irreverent.
6:04
We're
6:04
gonna
6:04
get
6:04
heretical
6:05
here.
6:06
And
6:06
you
6:06
know
6:06
what?
6:07
In
6:07
fact,
6:07
instead
6:07
of
6:08
actually,
6:08
you
6:08
know
6:08
what,
6:08
I
6:09
am
6:09
gonna
6:09
answer
6:09
first,
6:10
and
6:10
then
6:10
I'm
6:10
gonna
6:10
make
6:10
the
6:10
other
6:11
Josh
6:11
answer,
6:12
because,
6:12
you
6:13
know,
6:13
Josh
6:13
is.
6:14
That's
6:14
our
6:14
expertise.
6:15
Is
6:16
heresy.
6:17
So
6:17
we'll
6:17
start
6:17
with
6:17
us,
6:18
and
6:18
then
6:19
TJ
6:19
and
6:19
Tom.
6:20
What?
6:20
The
6:20
two
6:20
TJ.
6:21
So
6:21
the
6:21
two
6:21
Joshes,
6:21
then
6:22
the
6:22
two
6:22
TJ's.
6:23
Yeah.
6:24
In
6:24
today's
6:25
silly
6:25
question,
6:26
heresy
6:27
attached.
6:27
Happy
6:28
Good
6:28
Friday.
6:29
You
6:29
know,
6:29
Jesus
6:30
on
6:30
the
6:30
cross,
6:30
he
6:30
had
6:31
a
6:31
really
6:31
cool
6:31
catchphrase,
6:32
you
6:33
know,
6:33
that
6:33
someone
6:33
pulled
6:34
a
6:34
drawstring
6:34
and
6:35
he
6:35
said,
6:35
forgive
6:36
them.
6:36
They
6:36
know
6:36
not
6:36
what
6:36
they
6:37
do.
6:37
And
6:37
I
6:38
want
6:38
to
6:38
know,
6:38
if
6:39
you
6:39
were
6:39
to
6:39
pick
6:39
from
6:39
any
6:40
other
6:40
movie,
6:40
show,
6:41
book,
6:41
whatever,
6:41
what
6:42
is
6:42
the
6:42
worst
6:42
catchphrase
6:43
Jesus
6:43
could
6:44
have
6:44
said
6:44
on
6:44
the
6:44
cross?
6:45
I'm
6:46
gonna
6:46
go
6:46
first
6:46
from
6:47
Hitchhiker's
6:47
Guide
6:47
to
6:47
the
6:48
Galaxy.
6:48
I
6:48
think
6:48
it
6:48
would
6:48
have
6:48
been
6:49
great
6:49
if
6:49
Jesus
6:49
was
6:50
hanging
6:50
on
6:50
the
6:50
cross.
6:51
He
6:51
would
6:51
have
6:51
looked
6:51
up
6:51
to
6:51
the
6:52
crowd
6:52
and
6:52
said,
6:53
so
6:53
long
6:53
and
6:53
thanks
6:54
for
6:54
all
6:54
the
6:54
fish.
6:55
I
6:55
think
6:55
that
6:55
would
6:56
have
6:56
been
6:56
great.
6:57
So,
6:58
Josh,
6:59
give
6:59
me
6:59
some
7:00
heretical
7:00
silliness.
7:01
Oh,
7:01
my
7:02
goodness,
7:02
man.
7:03
This
7:03
is
7:03
one
7:03
that
7:03
I
7:04
feel
7:04
like
7:04
I
7:04
needed
7:04
time
7:04
to
7:05
think
7:05
about.
7:06
No,
7:06
it's
7:07
good.
7:07
I'm
7:07
trying
7:07
to
7:07
pull
7:08
from
7:08
places
7:08
that
7:08
I
7:09
enjoy
7:09
or
7:09
that
7:09
I
7:10
quote
7:10
often.
7:11
Thing
7:11
that
7:12
Jesus
7:12
did
7:12
say
7:12
on
7:12
the
7:12
cross
7:13
is
7:13
not
7:13
super
7:13
great.
7:14
I
7:15
don't
7:15
know.
7:18
I'm
7:19
sorry.
7:19
I
7:20
did
7:20
spring
7:20
this
7:20
on
7:20
everybody.
7:21
It's
7:22
all
7:22
good.
7:22
Yeah.
7:23
Can
7:23
I.
7:24
Can
7:24
I
7:24
have,
7:25
like,
7:25
maybe.
7:25
I
7:26
feel
7:26
like
7:26
tj,
7:26
in
7:26
his
7:27
infinite
7:27
wisdom,
7:27
probably
7:28
already
7:28
has
7:28
an
7:28
answer.
7:29
Can
7:29
I
7:30
be
7:30
returned
7:30
to,
7:31
please?
7:31
Oh,
7:31
absolutely.
7:32
Give
7:32
me
7:32
a
7:32
second.
7:33
I'll
7:33
throw
7:33
out
7:33
a
7:34
second
7:34
one.
7:37
There's
7:37
so
7:37
many
7:38
catchphrases,
7:39
and
7:39
it's.
7:40
It's
7:40
hard
7:40
to
7:40
think
7:40
of
7:40
a
7:41
really
7:41
good
7:41
catchphrase
7:41
in
7:41
the
7:42
moment.
7:42
But
7:42
I'm
7:43
gonna
7:43
go
7:43
with
7:43
the
7:43
worst
7:44
one
7:44
probably.
7:45
It's
7:45
clobbering
7:46
time.
7:48
Yeah.
7:48
That's
7:49
been
7:49
great.
7:49
That's
7:49
been
7:49
great.
7:50
That's
7:50
the
7:50
worst
7:50
one
7:51
I
7:51
can
7:51
think
7:51
of.
7:51
That
7:51
or
7:52
Flame
7:52
on
7:52
the
7:52
Fantastic
7:53
Four.
7:53
Yeah,
7:54
all
7:54
of
7:54
them
7:55
have
7:55
terrible.
7:56
Yeah,
7:57
yeah.
7:58
Backup
7:58
One.
7:59
While
7:59
our
7:59
guests
7:59
are
7:59
thinking
8:01
going
8:01
to
8:01
the
8:01
Teenage
8:02
Mutant
8:02
Ninja
8:02
Turtles,
8:02
I
8:03
think
8:03
it
8:03
would
8:03
have
8:03
been
8:03
great.
8:03
She
8:04
just
8:04
would
8:04
have
8:04
just
8:04
shouted,
8:05
cowabunga.
8:06
You
8:06
know,
8:06
that
8:06
would
8:06
have
8:06
been.
8:07
No.
8:07
Turtle
8:07
power.
8:08
Turtle
8:08
power.
8:09
Yeah,
8:09
that's
8:12
Tom.
8:13
Josh,
8:14
do
8:14
either
8:14
of
8:14
you
8:15
have
8:15
an
8:15
answer
8:15
to
8:16
this
8:16
terrible
8:17
question?
8:18
I
8:18
have
8:18
an
8:18
answer.
8:19
I
8:19
have
8:19
an
8:19
answer.
8:20
Actually,
8:20
it's
8:20
from
8:21
Monty
8:21
Python.
8:22
Yes.
8:22
You
8:22
know,
8:22
the
8:22
money
8:23
Python
8:23
theology,
8:24
beer
8:24
camp.
8:25
Yeah.
8:26
Jesus
8:27
on
8:27
the
8:27
cross
8:27
leans
8:28
over
8:28
to
8:28
Peter
8:28
and
8:28
says,
8:29
hey,
8:29
I
8:29
can
8:30
see
8:30
your
8:30
house
8:30
from
8:30
up
8:31
here.
8:35
Fantastic.
8:38
All
8:39
right,
8:39
Josh,
8:40
come
8:40
back
8:40
circle
8:41
now.
8:41
You
8:41
have
8:41
to
8:42
give
8:42
the
8:42
heresy
8:43
since
8:43
you're
8:43
last.
8:44
No,
8:44
I
8:44
got
8:45
nothing,
8:45
dude.
8:45
To
8:45
be
8:46
honest
8:46
with
8:46
you,
8:46
like,
8:46
all
8:47
that
8:47
keeps
8:47
coming
8:47
to
8:47
mind
8:48
is
8:48
like
8:48
Borat
8:49
quotes.
8:49
And,
8:50
like,
8:50
I'm
8:51
quite
8:51
fond
8:51
of
8:51
Borat.
8:52
So,
8:52
like,
8:52
if
8:53
Jesus
8:53
was
8:53
in
8:53
the
8:53
cross
8:53
and
8:54
was
8:54
like,
8:54
very
8:54
nice
8:55
like.
8:56
That.
8:58
I
8:58
think
8:59
that
8:59
would
8:59
be.
8:59
Be
8:59
some
9:00
great
9:00
last
9:00
words.
9:01
This.
9:01
This
9:02
cross
9:02
is
9:03
nice.
9:05
Yeah,
9:06
I
9:06
don't
9:06
know.
9:06
I.
9:07
That's
9:08
all
9:08
I.
9:08
A
9:09
great
9:09
way
9:09
for
9:09
him
9:09
to
9:09
stick
9:09
it
9:09
to
9:10
the
9:10
man,
9:10
you
9:10
know,
9:11
going
9:12
the
9:12
government.
9:12
That.
9:13
Yeah,
9:14
yeah,
9:14
yeah.
9:16
No,
9:16
I
9:17
love.
9:19
I.
9:20
Other
9:20
ones
9:20
involve
9:20
the
9:21
F
9:21
word.
9:21
And
9:21
since
9:22
Tom
9:22
is
9:22
present,
9:23
I
9:23
respect
9:23
him
9:23
too
9:23
much
9:24
to
9:24
speak
9:24
that
9:24
way.
9:26
God.
9:27
Yeah.
9:28
I
9:28
say
9:28
he
9:28
also
9:29
could
9:29
have
9:29
pulled
9:29
from
9:29
the
9:29
Deadpool
9:30
and
9:30
Wolverine
9:30
movie
9:31
with
9:31
the
9:31
let's
9:31
effing
9:32
go.
9:34
Maximum
9:34
effort.
9:35
Yeah,
9:37
that's.
9:38
That
9:38
might
9:38
be
9:38
a
9:38
good
9:38
one.
9:39
Maximum
9:39
effort.
9:40
Maximum
9:40
effort.
9:42
Yeah,
9:42
that.
9:42
Yeah,
9:43
that's
9:44
a
9:44
more
9:44
bad.
9:44
That's
9:45
essential.
9:45
That's
9:46
essential.
9:46
Essential
9:47
kenosis.
9:47
If
9:48
Jesus
9:48
is
9:48
on
9:48
the
9:48
cross
9:49
and
9:49
we
9:49
see
9:49
that,
9:49
but
9:50
as
9:50
you
9:50
know,
9:51
the
9:51
Christ,
9:51
Him,
9:52
Jesus
9:53
emptying
9:53
himself.
9:54
Maximum
9:54
effort.
9:56
It
9:56
works.
9:57
I
9:58
like,
9:58
I
9:58
should
9:58
have
9:58
known
9:59
that
9:59
somehow
9:59
this
9:59
would
9:59
have
9:59
got,
10:00
like,
10:00
actually
10:00
theological
10:01
and
10:01
not
10:01
just.
10:04
All
10:05
right,
10:05
so
10:06
before
10:06
we
10:06
actually
10:07
get
10:07
to
10:07
the
10:07
reviewing
10:08
part,
10:08
I
10:08
did
10:08
want
10:08
to
10:08
dig
10:08
a
10:09
little
10:09
bit
10:09
deeper
10:10
into
10:10
this.
10:11
Your
10:11
idea
10:11
amnipotence.
10:12
So
10:12
that
10:12
is
10:13
all
10:14
love
10:14
rather
10:14
than
10:15
all
10:15
power,
10:15
which
10:15
is
10:15
omnipotent.
10:16
So
10:16
that's
10:16
kind
10:16
of.
10:17
To
10:17
just
10:18
kind
10:18
of
10:18
catch
10:18
people
10:19
up.
10:19
The
10:19
idea
10:20
that
10:20
you're
10:21
positing
10:21
is
10:22
that
10:22
omnipotence,
10:23
which
10:23
is
10:23
this
10:24
doctrine
10:24
that
10:24
God
10:24
has
10:25
all
10:25
power,
10:26
needs
10:26
to
10:26
be
10:26
done
10:26
away
10:26
with.
10:27
And
10:27
instead
10:27
we
10:27
need
10:28
to
10:28
think
10:28
of
10:28
God
10:28
as
10:28
all
10:29
loving
10:29
and
10:29
love
10:30
being
10:30
the
10:30
kind
10:30
of
10:30
power
10:31
that
10:31
God
10:31
has.
10:33
And
10:34
go
10:34
watch
10:34
the
10:34
other
10:34
episodes.
10:35
I'll
10:35
link
10:35
them
10:35
down
10:35
below
10:36
in
10:36
the
10:36
show
10:36
notes
10:36
for
10:36
those
10:37
who
10:37
kind
10:37
of
10:37
want
10:37
to
10:37
catch
10:37
up
10:38
on
10:38
all
10:38
the
10:39
nitty
10:39
gritty
10:39
details
10:40
of
10:40
all
10:41
that.
10:41
But
10:42
before
10:42
we
10:42
get
10:42
to
10:42
the
10:42
other
10:43
stuff,
10:43
since
10:44
we're
10:44
talking
10:44
about
10:44
omnipotence,
10:45
I
10:45
thought
10:45
it
10:45
would
10:45
be
10:45
Interesting
10:46
to
10:46
give
10:46
you
10:46
a
10:46
chance
10:47
to
10:47
speak
10:48
about
10:48
that
10:48
through
10:48
the
10:49
lens
10:49
of
10:49
Good
10:49
Friday
10:50
and
10:50
Easter,
10:50
since
10:50
this
10:51
is
10:51
releasing
10:51
on
10:52
Good
10:52
Friday.
10:52
So
10:53
did
10:53
you
10:53
want
10:53
to
10:54
maybe
10:54
just
10:55
riff
10:55
on
10:55
that
10:55
a
10:55
little
10:55
bit?
10:56
Sure.
10:58
I
10:58
think
10:59
shorthand,
11:00
I
11:00
like
11:00
to
11:01
say
11:01
omnipotence
11:02
is
11:03
God's
11:03
power
11:03
of
11:04
uncontrolling
11:05
love.
11:05
Because
11:06
sometimes
11:07
people
11:07
will
11:07
say,
11:07
will
11:08
think,
11:08
well,
11:08
the
11:08
power
11:09
of
11:09
love
11:09
still
11:10
might
11:10
be
11:10
controlling
11:11
from
11:11
time
11:11
to
11:11
time.
11:12
And
11:12
I'm
11:12
pretty
11:13
clear
11:13
that
11:13
I
11:13
think
11:14
omnipotence
11:15
never
11:15
controls,
11:16
and
11:16
God
11:16
can't
11:17
control
11:17
anyone
11:18
or
11:18
anything
11:19
at
11:19
any
11:19
time.
11:20
When
11:20
it
11:20
comes
11:20
to
11:20
the
11:21
cross
11:21
and
11:22
Good
11:22
Friday
11:22
or
11:24
the
11:24
Passion.
11:25
I
11:26
think
11:26
Christians
11:26
have
11:27
wrestled
11:27
with
11:28
trying
11:28
to
11:28
figure
11:28
out
11:29
what
11:29
exactly
11:30
is
11:30
being
11:31
revealed.
11:32
On
11:32
the
11:32
one
11:32
hand,
11:33
I
11:33
think
11:33
I
11:33
want
11:34
to
11:34
strongly
11:35
affirm
11:35
Jesus
11:36
as
11:36
an
11:36
actual
11:37
human
11:37
who
11:38
is
11:38
put
11:38
to
11:39
death
11:39
by
11:39
the
11:39
Empire
11:40
and
11:40
whose
11:41
suffering
11:42
is
11:42
true
11:42
suffering
11:43
as
11:44
a
11:44
human.
11:45
But
11:45
I
11:46
think
11:48
we
11:48
have
11:49
licensed
11:50
to
11:50
wonder
11:51
if
11:51
even
11:51
in
11:52
this
11:52
suffering
11:52
and
11:53
death,
11:53
Jesus
11:54
tells
11:54
us
11:54
something
11:55
about
11:55
God.
11:55
If
11:56
Jurgen
11:56
Moltmann
11:57
were
11:57
here,
11:57
he
11:57
would
11:58
really
11:58
emphasize
11:59
this
11:59
point
11:59
that
12:00
the
12:01
suffering
12:01
and
12:01
death
12:01
of
12:01
Jesus
12:02
tells
12:03
us
12:03
about
12:03
the
12:03
suffering
12:04
and
12:04
death
12:04
of
12:04
God.
12:05
Now,
12:05
that
12:05
brings
12:05
up
12:05
a
12:06
really
12:06
difficult
12:07
issue,
12:07
and
12:07
that
12:07
is
12:08
how
12:08
can
12:08
a
12:08
God
12:09
who
12:09
necessarily
12:10
exists
12:11
die?
12:12
And
12:12
that's
12:13
a
12:13
huge
12:13
question
12:13
theologically.
12:14
I
12:14
don't
12:14
know
12:15
if
12:15
we
12:15
can
12:15
solve
12:16
it
12:16
right
12:16
now,
12:17
but
12:17
setting
12:18
that
12:18
one
12:18
aside
12:19
just
12:19
for
12:19
a
12:19
moment,
12:20
I
12:20
think
12:20
we
12:20
could
12:21
at
12:21
least
12:21
say
12:22
that
12:22
this
12:23
human
12:23
Jesus
12:24
points
12:25
us
12:26
to
12:26
or
12:26
reveals
12:27
a
12:28
God
12:28
of
12:29
suffering
12:29
love.
12:30
Yeah,
12:31
yeah,
12:31
I
12:31
like
12:32
that.
12:33
This
12:33
is
12:34
not
12:34
going
12:34
to
12:34
be
12:34
an
12:34
Atonement
12:35
Theory
12:35
episode,
12:36
but
12:36
it
12:36
is
12:37
interesting
12:37
since
12:37
it's
12:37
the
12:38
whole
12:38
church
12:38
podcast
12:38
and
12:39
Good
12:39
Friday.
12:39
Just
12:39
kind
12:39
of
12:39
thinking
12:40
of
12:40
how,
12:40
like,
12:41
some
12:41
of
12:41
our
12:41
listeners
12:42
are
12:42
going
12:43
to
12:43
be
12:43
people
12:43
who
12:43
affirm
12:44
something
12:44
like
12:45
penal
12:45
substitutionary
12:46
atonement
12:46
theory.
12:47
You
12:47
know,
12:47
that
12:48
this
12:48
is
12:48
the
12:48
big
12:49
day
12:49
for
12:49
them,
12:49
right?
12:49
That,
12:49
like,
12:50
Christ
12:50
died
12:51
for
12:51
their
12:51
sins
12:51
and
12:51
that's
12:51
a
12:52
sacrificial
12:52
love
12:52
act.
12:54
For
12:54
me,
12:54
myself,
12:55
being
12:55
more
12:55
like
12:56
Christus
12:56
Victor,
12:57
I
12:57
guess,
12:57
would
12:57
probably
12:58
be
12:58
the
12:58
thing
12:58
I'm
12:58
closest
12:59
to.
12:59
I'm
12:59
like,
12:59
this
13:00
is
13:00
a
13:00
cool
13:00
day
13:00
because
13:01
it
13:01
makes
13:01
the
13:01
big
13:02
thing
13:02
possible.
13:03
But
13:03
this
13:03
is
13:03
just
13:03
kind
13:04
of
13:04
like,
13:04
like,
13:04
you
13:05
know,
13:05
the
13:05
prequel
13:06
series,
13:07
the
13:07
original
13:07
series
13:08
is
13:08
the
13:08
best.
13:08
Star
13:09
Wars.
13:09
We
13:09
all
13:09
know
13:09
that
13:10
Easter
13:10
is
13:10
the
13:11
big
13:11
day.
13:11
This
13:11
is
13:12
just
13:12
kind
13:12
of
13:12
getting
13:12
us
13:13
there.
13:14
But,
13:14
you
13:14
know,
13:14
I
13:14
know
13:14
everybody
13:15
kind
13:15
of
13:15
has,
13:15
like,
13:15
different
13:15
views
13:16
of
13:16
this,
13:16
but
13:17
it
13:17
is
13:17
interesting.
13:18
I
13:18
think
13:18
love
13:18
is
13:18
kind
13:18
of
13:19
at
13:19
the
13:19
center
13:19
of
13:19
pretty
13:20
much
13:20
every
13:21
view
13:21
I
13:21
can
13:21
think
13:21
of.
13:22
The
13:23
question
13:23
whether
13:23
or
13:23
not
13:24
that's
13:25
love.
13:25
Yeah,
13:26
theoretically,
13:26
it's
13:26
at
13:27
the
13:27
center.
13:27
But
13:28
more
13:28
than
13:28
Half
13:28
of
13:28
them,
13:29
I
13:29
think,
13:29
suck.
13:30
They
13:30
don't
13:30
portray
13:31
a
13:31
God
13:31
of
13:31
love.
13:32
I
13:32
agree
13:32
with
13:32
Tony.
13:33
Including
13:34
the
13:34
penal
13:34
satisfaction
13:35
one.
13:36
Yeah.
13:36
Well,
13:37
I
13:37
think
13:38
for
13:38
me
13:39
personally,
13:40
and
13:40
I
13:40
don't
13:40
want
13:40
to
13:40
distance
13:41
people
13:41
who
13:41
do
13:41
the
13:41
penal
13:41
substitutionary
13:42
atonement
13:43
theory,
13:43
but
13:44
to
13:44
me,
13:44
it
13:45
feels
13:45
more
13:45
like
13:45
in
13:46
that
13:46
theory,
13:47
Jesus
13:47
is
13:47
very
13:47
loving
13:48
because
13:48
he's
13:48
sacrificing
13:49
for
13:49
us,
13:50
but
13:50
God
13:50
is
13:51
not
13:51
very
13:51
loving.
13:51
Right.
13:52
Because
13:52
he's
13:52
requiring
13:53
the
13:53
sacrifice.
13:54
And
13:54
it's
13:54
like,
13:54
well,
13:54
couldn't
13:55
the
13:55
dude
13:55
just
13:55
be
13:56
like,
13:56
now
13:56
y'all
13:56
are
13:57
good?
13:57
You
13:57
know?
13:58
Like.
13:59
Exactly.
14:00
Something
14:00
seems
14:00
off
14:00
there
14:01
to
14:01
me.
14:03
Yeah.
14:03
Yeah.
14:04
So
14:04
what
14:04
we
14:05
are
14:05
here
14:05
to
14:05
talk
14:05
about
14:06
today
14:06
is
14:06
the
14:07
Systematic
14:08
ecology
14:10
podcast
14:10
on
14:11
Mr.
14:12
Purple,
14:12
and
14:12
also
14:13
the
14:13
Ziggy
14:14
podcast
14:14
about
14:14
omnipotence.
14:15
It's
14:15
the
14:15
same
14:16
ish,
14:16
which
14:16
was
14:17
in
14:17
response
14:17
to
14:18
the
14:18
whole
14:18
church,
14:18
which
14:18
was
14:18
in
14:18
response
14:19
to
14:19
the
14:19
book,
14:19
which
14:20
I'm
14:20
not
14:21
sure
14:21
what
14:21
convinced
14:21
Tom
14:21
to
14:22
write
14:22
the
14:22
book,
14:22
but,
14:23
you
14:23
know,
14:24
maybe
14:24
God.
14:24
This
14:25
all
14:25
started
14:25
somewhere.
14:25
Maybe
14:25
God
14:26
started
14:26
this.
14:26
And
14:27
maybe
14:27
God
14:27
started
14:28
it
14:28
because
14:28
TJ
14:29
whispered
14:29
in
14:29
his
14:29
ears,
14:29
like,
14:30
wait
14:30
a
14:30
minute,
14:31
what
14:31
about
14:31
love?
14:31
God
14:32
was
14:32
like,
14:33
yeah,
14:33
so
14:34
what
14:34
about
14:34
love?
14:34
What
14:34
about
14:35
love?
14:35
So,
14:36
Josh,
14:36
you
14:36
were
14:36
on
14:36
that
14:37
episode.
14:37
That's
14:38
true.
14:38
Yeah.
14:39
I
14:40
can
14:40
unpack
14:40
a
14:40
little
14:40
bit.
14:40
Just
14:41
kind
14:41
of
14:41
the
14:41
basics.
14:42
For
14:42
those
14:42
who
14:42
don't
14:43
know
14:43
and
14:43
don't
14:43
feel
14:43
like
14:43
listening
14:44
to
14:44
us
14:44
geeks.
14:45
On
14:45
the
14:45
other
14:45
podcast,
14:46
Mr.
14:46
Purple,
14:47
the
14:47
reason
14:47
I
14:47
thought
14:47
of
14:47
it,
14:48
his
14:49
whole
14:49
character,
14:50
which
14:51
before
14:51
kind
14:52
of,
14:52
he
14:52
got
14:52
more
14:53
popular,
14:53
it
14:53
was
14:54
not
14:54
as
14:54
big
14:54
a
14:54
deal.
14:54
He
14:55
was
14:55
just
14:55
someone
14:55
who
14:56
could
14:56
control
14:56
you
14:56
with
14:56
speech.
14:58
Then
14:59
Bendis
15:00
was
15:00
like,
15:00
actually,
15:01
that's
15:01
a
15:01
terrifying
15:02
concept.
15:02
Right?
15:03
Like
15:03
someone
15:03
who
15:03
can
15:03
just
15:04
control
15:04
people.
15:05
And
15:05
then
15:05
it
15:05
kind
15:06
of
15:06
gets
15:06
into
15:06
this
15:06
discussion
15:07
of,
15:07
like,
15:07
is
15:08
he
15:08
raping
15:08
people?
15:09
Because,
15:10
you
15:10
know,
15:10
he
15:10
doesn't
15:11
even
15:11
know
15:11
sometimes
15:11
if
15:12
they're
15:12
doing
15:12
it
15:12
because
15:12
they
15:12
want
15:12
to
15:13
or
15:13
because
15:13
he
15:13
said
15:13
it.
15:13
And
15:13
it
15:14
gets
15:14
into
15:14
this
15:14
conversation
15:15
all
15:15
these
15:15
different
15:16
weird,
15:16
grayish
15:17
areas
15:17
where,
15:17
like,
15:18
he
15:18
desperately
15:18
wants
15:19
love,
15:19
but
15:19
maybe
15:20
he's
15:20
incapable
15:20
of
15:21
it
15:21
because
15:22
he's
15:22
constantly
15:23
controlling
15:23
people.
15:24
And
15:25
then
15:25
the
15:25
questions
15:25
I
15:25
think
15:25
we
15:25
brought
15:26
up
15:26
in
15:26
that
15:26
episode
15:26
are
15:27
kind
15:27
of
15:27
revolving
15:27
around
15:27
this
15:28
idea
15:28
of,
15:28
is
15:29
it
15:29
really
15:29
love
15:30
if
15:30
it's
15:30
controlling?
15:31
And
15:31
then
15:31
also,
15:32
if
15:33
a
15:33
being
15:33
is
15:33
controlling,
15:33
whether
15:34
it
15:34
be
15:34
God
15:34
or
15:34
Mr.
15:35
Purple,
15:35
are
15:36
they
15:36
even
15:36
capable
15:37
of
15:37
love?
15:37
You
15:37
know
15:37
what
15:38
I
15:38
mean?
15:38
Like,
15:38
because
15:38
Mr.
15:39
Purple,
15:39
for
15:39
him,
15:40
since
15:40
no
15:40
one
15:41
can
15:41
choose
15:41
to
15:41
love
15:41
him
15:42
because
15:42
he's
15:42
controlling,
15:43
love
15:43
is
15:43
something
15:44
he
15:44
can't
15:44
truly
15:44
grasp.
15:45
So
15:46
if
15:46
we're
15:46
going
15:46
to
15:46
put
15:46
that
15:47
same
15:47
characteristic
15:47
on
15:47
God,
15:48
my
15:48
question
15:48
is,
15:49
does
15:49
that
15:49
mean
15:49
God
15:50
can't
15:50
Love.
15:51
And
15:51
that.
15:52
That
15:52
makes
15:52
a
15:52
lot
15:52
of
15:53
theology
15:53
difficult.
15:54
So
15:55
I
15:55
think
15:55
that's
15:55
kind
15:55
of
15:55
the
15:55
basis
15:56
of
15:56
what
15:56
we
15:56
touched
15:56
on
15:56
the
15:56
episode.
15:57
Y'all.
15:57
Anything
15:58
I.
15:58
I
15:58
missed,
15:58
because
15:58
I
15:59
haven't
15:59
listened
15:59
to
15:59
that
15:59
in
15:59
a
16:00
minute,
16:00
to
16:00
be
16:00
honest.
16:03
Or.
16:04
Where
16:04
do
16:04
y'all
16:04
want
16:05
to
16:05
start?
16:05
I
16:05
mean,
16:06
for
16:06
me.
16:06
So
16:06
I.
16:07
I
16:07
listened
16:07
to
16:07
the
16:07
episode
16:09
this
16:09
morning,
16:10
and
16:10
one
16:10
of
16:11
the
16:11
things
16:12
that
16:12
came
16:12
to
16:13
mind
16:13
for
16:13
me
16:13
was
16:14
actually
16:14
kind
16:14
of
16:15
two.
16:16
I
16:17
don't
16:17
know,
16:17
two
16:17
ideas
16:19
that,
16:19
like
16:19
I
16:19
said,
16:20
came
16:20
to
16:20
mind
16:20
when
16:20
you
16:20
all
16:21
were.
16:21
Were
16:21
speaking.
16:22
And
16:22
I'd
16:22
be
16:23
interested.
16:23
I
16:24
have
16:24
a
16:24
guess.
16:25
Like,
16:25
I.
16:25
I
16:25
have
16:25
a
16:26
guess.
16:26
If
16:26
I
16:26
were
16:26
to
16:26
put
16:27
on
16:27
my
16:27
Tom
16:27
Ord
16:27
hat
16:28
and
16:28
be
16:28
like,
16:29
how
16:29
would
16:29
Tom
16:30
answer
16:30
this
16:30
question?
16:31
I
16:31
think
16:31
I
16:32
could
16:32
maybe
16:33
get
16:33
75%
16:34
of
16:34
the
16:34
way
16:34
there,
16:34
but
16:34
maybe
16:35
I'll.
16:35
I'll
16:35
throw
16:35
the
16:35
two
16:36
things
16:36
out
16:36
there,
16:36
and
16:37
then
16:37
we
16:37
can
16:37
see
16:37
what
16:37
Tom
16:38
thinks.
16:38
So
16:39
the
16:40
two
16:40
things
16:40
that
16:40
came
16:40
to
16:41
mind
16:41
were
16:41
this.
16:41
In
16:41
listening,
16:42
coercion
16:43
isn't
16:44
always
16:44
necessarily
16:45
bad,
16:46
and
16:46
persuasion
16:48
isn't
16:48
always
16:49
necessarily
16:50
good.
16:51
And
16:52
so
16:52
Tom's
16:53
argument
16:54
is
16:54
predicated
16:55
on
16:55
the
16:55
idea
16:55
that
16:55
coercion
16:56
is
16:56
bad
16:56
and
16:56
persuasion
16:57
is
16:57
a
16:57
better
16:58
form
16:58
of
16:58
power.
16:59
But
16:59
I
16:59
can
17:00
think
17:00
of
17:00
instances
17:01
when
17:01
both
17:01
coercion
17:02
and
17:02
persuasion
17:03
could
17:03
be
17:04
flipped.
17:04
So
17:05
I'm
17:05
not
17:05
here
17:05
to
17:05
ask
17:06
questions,
17:06
but
17:06
that's
17:07
what
17:07
came
17:07
to
17:07
mind.
17:08
Hey,
17:09
I
17:09
love
17:09
questions.
17:10
Before
17:10
Tom
17:10
takes
17:11
that,
17:11
though,
17:11
could
17:12
you
17:12
just
17:12
kind
17:13
of
17:13
tell
17:13
us
17:13
how
17:13
would
17:13
you
17:14
define
17:14
coercion
17:15
and
17:15
persuasion
17:15
and
17:16
the
17:16
difference,
17:16
so
17:17
that
17:17
we're
17:17
actually
17:17
addressing
17:18
what
17:18
you're
17:18
getting
17:18
at?
17:19
Yeah,
17:19
yeah.
17:19
No,
17:19
that's
17:19
good.
17:20
Actually,
17:20
I
17:20
was
17:20
at
17:20
a
17:21
talk
17:21
recently
17:22
with
17:22
two
17:22
nerdy
17:23
philosophers,
17:23
and
17:24
the
17:24
one
17:24
guy
17:25
said,
17:25
like,
17:25
hey,
17:25
before
17:26
we
17:26
start,
17:27
I'm
17:27
going
17:27
to
17:27
give
17:27
a
17:27
definition
17:28
of
17:28
this
17:28
word
17:28
that
17:29
I'm
17:29
using,
17:30
because
17:30
if
17:30
I
17:31
define
17:31
it,
17:32
you
17:32
and
17:32
I
17:32
can
17:32
disagree,
17:33
but
17:33
at
17:34
least
17:34
we
17:34
won't
17:34
be
17:34
confused.
17:35
And
17:35
he
17:35
was
17:35
like,
17:35
I'd
17:36
rather
17:36
have
17:36
disagreement
17:37
than
17:37
confusion.
17:37
So
17:38
I
17:38
think
17:38
your
17:38
instincts
17:39
are
17:39
right.
17:40
Coercion,
17:41
I
17:41
think,
17:41
would
17:42
be.
17:42
To
17:44
force
17:44
might
17:44
be
17:45
too
17:45
strong
17:45
of
17:45
a
17:45
word,
17:45
but
17:46
to
17:46
coerce
17:46
somebody
17:47
is
17:47
to.
17:47
Is
17:47
to
17:47
force
17:48
them,
17:48
to
17:48
manipulate
17:49
them
17:49
into
17:50
doing
17:50
something
17:51
that
17:51
you
17:51
want
17:51
them
17:52
to
17:52
do.
17:53
So
17:53
that's,
17:54
you
17:54
know,
17:54
like.
17:54
I
17:55
don't
17:55
know.
17:55
Yeah,
17:55
that'd
17:56
be.
17:56
That'd
17:56
be
17:56
coercive.
17:57
Or.
17:57
Whereas
17:58
persuasion
17:59
is
17:59
more
18:00
using
18:00
the
18:01
power
18:01
of
18:01
influence
18:02
or
18:03
invitation.
18:05
You
18:05
know,
18:05
to
18:05
persuade
18:06
somebody
18:07
is
18:07
not
18:07
to
18:07
override
18:08
their
18:09
free
18:09
will,
18:09
but
18:10
rather
18:10
to
18:11
invite
18:11
them
18:12
into
18:12
considering
18:13
something,
18:13
and
18:14
then
18:14
they
18:14
still
18:14
have
18:14
that
18:15
free
18:15
choice
18:15
of
18:16
agreeing,
18:17
participating,
18:18
or
18:18
whatever.
18:18
So
18:19
that's
18:19
how
18:19
I
18:19
would
18:19
see
18:20
those
18:20
two
18:20
as
18:20
different.
18:22
Well,
18:22
you
18:22
could
18:22
ask
18:22
the
18:23
philosopher
18:25
to
18:25
give
18:25
technical.
18:26
Tom,
18:27
jump
18:27
in
18:27
here.
18:28
Yeah.
18:28
I
18:29
think
18:29
there
18:29
are
18:29
three
18:30
senses
18:31
of
18:31
coercion
18:32
that
18:32
are
18:32
used,
18:33
and
18:34
because
18:34
there's
18:34
three
18:35
of
18:35
them,
18:35
there's
18:35
lots
18:35
of
18:35
confusion
18:36
that
18:36
arises.
18:38
One
18:38
sense
18:39
of
18:40
coercion
18:41
is
18:41
kind
18:41
of
18:41
like
18:42
a
18:42
threat
18:42
or
18:43
a
18:43
bully.
18:44
So
18:44
if
18:44
Donald
18:45
Trump
18:45
says,
18:46
I'm
18:46
going
18:46
to
18:46
put
18:46
tariffs
18:47
on
18:47
Canada
18:48
unless
18:48
they
18:49
lower
18:50
their
18:50
goods
18:50
and
18:51
services
18:51
to
18:51
the
18:51
US
18:52
that's
18:53
coercion,
18:53
trying
18:54
to
18:54
force
18:54
them
18:55
to
18:55
do
18:55
something
18:55
by
18:56
threatening
18:56
some
18:56
kind
18:57
of
18:57
harm
18:58
or
18:58
financial
18:59
loss
18:59
or
18:59
something
19:00
like
19:00
that.
19:00
A
19:00
second
19:01
sense
19:01
of
19:01
coercion
19:02
I
19:02
like
19:02
to
19:02
call
19:03
bodily
19:03
impact.
19:04
So
19:05
if
19:05
you're
19:05
standing
19:06
on
19:06
a
19:07
football
19:07
field
19:07
and
19:08
someone
19:08
hits
19:08
you
19:09
from
19:09
blindside,
19:10
they're
19:10
just
19:10
going
19:10
to
19:11
blow
19:11
you
19:11
down
19:12
on
19:12
the
19:12
ground.
19:13
You're
19:13
coerced,
19:14
you
19:14
had
19:14
no
19:15
choice
19:15
in
19:15
the
19:15
matter,
19:15
you
19:16
didn't
19:16
see
19:16
it
19:16
coming,
19:17
and
19:17
your
19:17
body's
19:17
now
19:18
flying
19:18
away.
19:18
The
19:19
third
19:19
sense
19:19
of
19:20
coercion
19:20
is
19:20
the
19:20
one
19:21
that
19:21
I
19:21
use
19:22
mostly
19:22
when
19:22
I'm
19:23
talking
19:23
about
19:23
theology.
19:24
And
19:24
it
19:24
has
19:25
a
19:25
particular
19:25
philosophical
19:26
meaning.
19:27
It
19:27
means
19:28
being
19:29
the
19:29
only
19:30
cause
19:30
that
19:30
brings
19:31
about
19:31
an
19:31
effect.
19:32
So
19:33
if
19:33
God
19:33
were
19:33
to
19:34
coerce,
19:34
God
19:35
alone
19:36
would
19:36
bring
19:36
about
19:37
some
19:37
outcome
19:38
in
19:38
that
19:39
use
19:39
of
19:40
coerce.
19:40
I
19:41
don't
19:41
think
19:41
any
19:42
person
19:42
ever
19:43
coerces
19:43
another
19:44
person.
19:44
In
19:45
fact,
19:45
I
19:45
don't
19:46
think
19:46
any
19:46
quirk
19:47
can
19:47
coerce
19:47
another
19:48
quark.
19:48
I
19:49
think
19:49
it's
19:49
absolutely
19:50
impossible
19:51
for
19:51
anyone,
19:52
including
19:52
God,
19:53
to
19:53
be
19:54
the
19:54
sole
19:54
or
19:55
single
19:55
cause
19:56
of
19:56
some
19:57
outcome.
19:57
So
19:58
if
19:58
it's
19:58
impossible,
19:59
I
19:59
don't
19:59
know
20:00
if
20:00
it's
20:00
good
20:00
or
20:00
bad.
20:01
It's
20:01
kind
20:01
of
20:02
like
20:02
saying
20:02
our
20:02
unicorns
20:03
good
20:04
or
20:04
bad,
20:04
if
20:04
they
20:05
don't
20:05
actually
20:05
exist,
20:06
I
20:06
don't
20:06
know.
20:08
Persuasion,
20:09
however,
20:10
in
20:11
the
20:11
philosophical
20:12
sense
20:12
means
20:13
acting
20:14
or
20:14
influencing,
20:15
to
20:15
use
20:15
that
20:15
word.
20:16
Josh
20:16
just
20:16
used
20:17
influencing
20:18
in
20:18
such
20:18
a
20:18
way
20:18
that
20:19
there
20:19
are
20:19
other
20:19
influences
20:20
that
20:20
are
20:20
going
20:21
to
20:21
have
20:21
some
20:22
kind
20:22
of
20:22
effect
20:22
upon
20:23
the
20:23
outcome.
20:24
I
20:24
think
20:24
God
20:25
always
20:25
persuades.
20:26
I
20:26
think
20:27
people
20:27
always
20:28
persuade.
20:29
So
20:29
what
20:29
I
20:29
think
20:29
we're
20:30
really
20:30
talking
20:30
about
20:31
is
20:32
should
20:32
people
20:33
coerce
20:33
in
20:34
the
20:34
sense
20:34
of
20:34
bullying,
20:35
threatening,
20:36
or
20:37
using
20:37
bodily
20:38
force
20:38
on
20:39
others?
20:39
I
20:39
think
20:40
that's
20:40
the
20:40
big
20:40
question.
20:41
And
20:41
in
20:41
that
20:42
case,
20:42
there
20:42
might
20:42
be
20:42
some
20:43
cases
20:44
in
20:44
which
20:44
using
20:44
coercion
20:45
in
20:45
terms
20:46
of
20:46
bodily
20:46
force
20:47
is
20:47
the
20:47
best
20:47
thing
20:47
to
20:48
do.
20:48
If
20:49
TJ
20:50
and
20:50
I
20:50
are
20:50
walking
20:50
down
20:51
the
20:51
street
20:51
and
20:52
a
20:52
car
20:52
is
20:52
about
20:52
ready
20:53
to
20:53
hit
20:53
him
20:53
and
20:53
I
20:54
shove
20:54
his
20:54
body
20:54
out
20:55
of
20:55
the
20:55
car
20:55
and
20:55
save
20:56
his
20:56
life,
20:56
I've
20:57
coerced
20:57
him
20:57
in
20:58
the
20:58
sense
20:58
of
20:58
bodily
20:59
impact,
20:59
and
21:00
he
21:00
probably
21:00
think
21:00
that's
21:00
a
21:01
pretty
21:01
good
21:01
thing.
21:04
In
21:05
terms
21:05
of
21:05
threats
21:06
or
21:06
bullies,
21:07
I'm
21:07
not
21:07
sure
21:07
that's
21:08
ever
21:08
a
21:08
good
21:08
thing.
21:10
Maybe
21:10
warnings
21:11
are
21:11
close,
21:13
as
21:13
one
21:13
might
21:14
get
21:14
to
21:14
a
21:15
loving
21:15
threat.
21:16
Like
21:16
if
21:17
you
21:17
warn
21:17
someone,
21:17
if
21:18
you
21:18
do
21:18
this,
21:18
then
21:19
something
21:19
bad
21:19
will
21:19
happen,
21:20
so
21:20
long
21:20
as
21:21
you're
21:21
not
21:21
the
21:21
one
21:21
doing
21:22
the
21:22
bad
21:22
thing.
21:22
I
21:22
suppose
21:23
it's
21:23
not
21:23
bullying,
21:24
but
21:25
I.
21:26
Like
21:26
it
21:26
a
21:26
lot
21:26
less
21:26
when
21:27
you
21:27
threaten
21:27
me.
21:27
Then.
21:28
Yeah.
21:29
Yeah.
21:31
That's
21:31
how
21:31
I
21:31
think
21:31
about
21:32
coercion
21:32
and
21:32
persuasion.
21:34
Yeah.
21:35
I'll
21:36
jump
21:36
in
21:36
here
21:36
for
21:36
a
21:36
second
21:37
to
21:37
just
21:38
a
21:38
couple
21:38
thoughts.
21:40
One,
21:40
just
21:41
getting
21:41
to
21:41
the
21:41
argument,
21:41
I
21:42
feel.
21:42
So
21:42
for
21:43
me,
21:43
it
21:43
feels
21:43
like
21:44
if
21:44
someone's
21:44
using
21:44
that
21:44
kind
21:44
of
21:45
argument
21:45
against
21:46
what
21:46
Dr.
21:46
Ord's
21:46
saying
21:47
about
21:47
how
21:48
sometimes
21:48
coercion
21:48
can
21:49
be
21:49
a
21:49
good
21:49
thing.
21:50
It
21:51
seems
21:51
like
21:51
a
21:51
semantic
21:52
issue
21:52
because
21:54
it's
21:54
similar
21:54
to
21:55
how.
21:56
Actually,
21:56
I'll
21:57
use
21:57
the
21:57
current
21:57
events
21:58
kind
21:58
of
21:59
deal
21:59
where
21:59
people
21:59
will
22:00
kind
22:00
of
22:00
say
22:01
by,
22:02
you
22:02
know,
22:04
being
22:04
Democrat,
22:05
basically,
22:05
or
22:06
just
22:06
simply
22:06
being
22:07
the
22:07
person
22:07
at
22:08
the
22:08
top
22:08
of
22:08
the
22:08
ticket.
22:09
So
22:09
Kamala
22:10
was
22:10
basically
22:10
antisemitic
22:11
because
22:12
they
22:13
weren't
22:13
doing
22:13
enough
22:13
to
22:14
stop
22:14
Hamas.
22:15
And
22:15
it's
22:15
like,
22:15
okay,
22:16
well,
22:16
you're
22:16
kind
22:16
of
22:16
redefining
22:17
what
22:18
anti
22:18
Semitic
22:18
means.
22:19
And
22:19
then
22:19
everyone's
22:20
like,
22:20
yeah,
22:20
we
22:20
agree
22:20
being
22:21
anti
22:21
Semitic
22:21
is
22:21
bad.
22:22
But
22:22
if
22:22
you
22:22
really
22:23
look
22:23
at
22:23
it,
22:23
what
22:23
you're
22:24
talking
22:24
about
22:24
isn't
22:24
necessarily
22:25
that,
22:25
though.
22:26
So
22:26
you're
22:27
kind
22:27
of
22:27
redefining
22:27
terms
22:28
then
22:28
attacking
22:29
him
22:29
off
22:29
of
22:29
a
22:29
new
22:29
term.
22:30
So
22:30
it's
22:30
not
22:31
quite
22:31
a
22:31
strawman
22:31
argument,
22:32
but
22:32
pretty
22:33
darn
22:33
close.
22:34
But
22:35
to
22:35
kind
22:35
of
22:36
get
22:36
at
22:36
what
22:36
I
22:36
think
22:36
Josh
22:36
is
22:37
getting
22:37
at,
22:37
though,
22:37
go
22:38
a
22:38
little
22:38
bit
22:38
deeper
22:38
and
22:38
then
22:38
go
22:38
back
22:39
to
22:39
the
22:39
show
22:40
that
22:41
we
22:41
reviewed
22:41
in
22:41
Cismic
22:42
College.
22:42
So
22:42
we're
22:42
talking
22:42
about,
22:43
like,
22:43
the
22:43
Jessica
22:43
Jones
22:43
show
22:43
on
22:44
Netflix,
22:44
one
22:45
of
22:45
the
22:45
episodes
22:46
that
22:46
stood
22:46
out
22:46
to
22:46
me
22:46
that
22:46
I
22:47
talked
22:47
about.
22:48
It's
22:48
basically
22:49
Mr.
22:49
Purple's
22:49
trying
22:49
to
22:49
show
22:50
Jessica
22:50
that
22:50
he
22:50
can
22:51
be
22:51
good.
22:51
He
22:51
actually
22:52
does
22:52
want
22:52
love.
22:52
And
22:53
that's
22:53
the
22:53
same
22:53
episode
22:53
where
22:54
he's
22:54
like,
22:54
I
22:54
genuinely
22:55
don't
22:55
know
22:55
if
22:55
people
22:55
are
22:55
doing
22:56
stuff
22:56
because
22:56
they
22:57
want
22:57
to
22:57
or
22:57
because
22:57
I
22:57
told
22:58
them.
22:58
And
22:59
in
22:59
that
22:59
she
23:00
tries
23:00
to
23:00
make
23:00
him
23:00
into
23:01
a
23:01
hero
23:01
at.
23:02
At
23:02
one
23:02
point
23:02
in
23:02
the
23:03
episode.
23:03
So
23:03
they
23:03
go
23:03
to
23:04
stop.
23:05
I
23:05
think
23:05
it
23:05
was
23:06
like,
23:06
domestic
23:06
abuse
23:06
or
23:07
a
23:07
bank
23:07
robbery.
23:08
Insert
23:09
generic
23:09
criminal
23:10
crime
23:11
thing
23:11
that
23:11
superheroes
23:12
stop
23:12
here,
23:12
right?
23:14
And
23:14
they
23:14
go
23:15
in
23:15
and
23:15
it's
23:15
incredible,
23:16
right?
23:16
He
23:16
walks
23:17
in
23:17
and
23:17
he's
23:17
like,
23:18
hey,
23:18
let
23:18
the
23:19
hostages
23:19
go
23:19
free.
23:19
I'm
23:20
like,
23:20
oh,
23:20
okay.
23:20
Yeah.
23:20
It's
23:21
like,
23:21
all
23:21
right,
23:21
stop
23:22
shooting
23:22
people.
23:22
Yeah,
23:22
right.
23:22
And
23:23
then
23:23
he
23:23
immediately
23:23
goes
23:24
to
23:24
now
23:24
kill
23:24
yourself.
23:25
And
23:25
Jessica
23:26
goes,
23:27
that
23:27
is
23:27
not
23:27
great.
23:27
He's
23:28
like.
23:28
And
23:28
his
23:29
thing
23:29
Was
23:29
I
23:30
genuinely
23:30
would
23:30
have
23:30
never
23:31
known
23:31
that
23:31
that
23:31
was
23:31
the
23:31
wrong
23:32
thing
23:32
to
23:32
do.
23:32
That's
23:32
why
23:33
I
23:33
need
23:33
you.
23:33
And
23:33
he's
23:34
trying
23:34
in
23:34
that
23:35
sense
23:35
to
23:35
be
23:36
manipulative
23:36
without
23:37
directly
23:37
controlling
23:38
her
23:38
by
23:39
kind
23:39
of
23:39
being
23:39
like,
23:39
see,
23:39
I
23:40
need
23:40
you.
23:40
You
23:40
have
23:40
to
23:40
be
23:41
around.
23:41
And
23:42
at
23:42
the
23:42
same
23:42
time,
23:42
it's
23:43
still
23:43
bringing
23:43
up
23:43
this
23:43
question
23:44
of,
23:44
like,
23:44
was
23:44
it
23:45
good
23:45
that
23:45
he
23:45
stopped
23:46
the
23:46
crime?
23:46
I
23:47
guess.
23:47
But,
23:47
like,
23:47
is
23:48
how
23:48
he
23:48
did
23:48
it
23:48
good?
23:50
It
23:50
isn't
23:50
even
23:50
possible
23:51
for
23:51
it
23:51
to
23:51
be
23:52
good.
23:52
Like,
23:53
your
23:53
brain
23:53
would
23:53
be
23:53
so
23:54
warped
23:54
by
23:54
that
23:54
kind
23:54
of
23:55
action.
23:55
And
23:56
I
23:56
don't
23:56
think
23:56
God
23:56
is
23:57
so
23:57
different
23:57
from
23:57
us
23:58
that
23:58
we
23:58
could
23:58
say
23:59
that
23:59
much
23:59
different
23:59
about
23:59
God
24:00
either.
24:00
I
24:00
don't
24:01
know.
24:02
What
24:02
do
24:02
you
24:02
guys
24:02
think
24:02
about
24:03
that?
24:03
Josh,
24:03
you
24:04
got
24:04
an
24:04
opinion?
24:04
Yeah.
24:05
Well,
24:05
I
24:05
mean,
24:05
I
24:05
think
24:05
for
24:06
me,
24:07
what
24:07
I
24:07
would
24:07
have
24:07
to
24:08
bring
24:08
into
24:08
this
24:08
situation
24:09
at
24:09
this
24:09
point
24:10
is,
24:11
or
24:11
into
24:11
the
24:11
conversation
24:13
would
24:13
have
24:13
to
24:13
be,
24:14
like,
24:14
some
24:14
of
24:15
the
24:16
metaphysical
24:17
assumptions
24:17
and
24:18
the
24:18
philosophical
24:18
assumptions
24:19
that
24:19
come
24:20
with
24:20
process
24:21
thought
24:21
that
24:22
a
24:22
lot
24:22
of,
24:23
you
24:23
know,
24:23
at
24:23
least
24:24
my
24:24
understanding
24:24
of
24:25
how
24:25
Tom's
24:25
argument
24:26
functions
24:27
are
24:27
built
24:27
on,
24:28
that
24:28
don't
24:28
necessarily
24:30
apply
24:30
to
24:31
you
24:31
and
24:31
I
24:33
that
24:33
might
24:34
apply
24:34
to
24:34
God.
24:35
So,
24:36
for
24:36
example,
24:37
one
24:37
thing
24:37
would
24:38
be
24:39
God
24:39
doesn't
24:40
have
24:40
a
24:40
physical
24:41
body
24:42
to
24:42
be
24:42
able
24:42
to
24:43
coerce
24:43
people.
24:44
You're
24:44
gonna
24:45
say
24:45
that
24:45
on
24:45
Good
24:45
Friday.
24:47
All
24:48
right,
24:48
Jesus
24:49
aside,
24:50
we'll
24:50
assume,
24:51
right
24:51
incarnation.
24:53
But
24:53
if
24:54
we're
24:54
gonna
24:54
do
24:54
that,
24:54
if
24:54
you
24:55
want
24:55
my
24:55
Good
24:55
Friday
24:55
take,
24:56
that's
24:56
a
24:56
whole
24:56
nother
24:56
thing,
24:57
because
24:57
I
24:57
don't
24:57
think
24:57
people.
24:58
Christians
24:58
take
24:59
seriously
24:59
enough
25:00
the
25:00
death
25:01
of
25:01
God.
25:02
And
25:02
I'm
25:02
gonna
25:02
use
25:02
that
25:03
philosophically.
25:04
But
25:04
anyway,
25:07
God
25:07
doesn't
25:07
have
25:08
a
25:08
physical
25:08
body,
25:09
which
25:09
makes
25:09
it
25:09
very
25:10
difficult
25:10
to
25:11
push
25:11
people
25:12
out
25:12
of
25:12
the
25:12
way,
25:12
you
25:12
know,
25:13
to
25:13
save
25:13
TJ
25:13
from
25:14
the
25:14
car.
25:14
And
25:15
also,
25:16
there's
25:16
some
25:16
assumptions,
25:17
you
25:18
know,
25:18
just
25:18
within
25:19
how
25:19
process
25:20
functions
25:20
in
25:21
general,
25:21
like
25:22
process
25:22
metaphysics.
25:24
But
25:24
also,
25:25
you
25:25
know,
25:25
if
25:26
you
25:26
want
25:27
to
25:27
assume
25:27
something
25:28
like
25:29
pan
25:29
experientialism
25:30
or
25:31
panpsychism,
25:32
that
25:32
also
25:32
muddies
25:33
the
25:33
waters
25:34
when
25:34
it
25:34
comes
25:34
to
25:34
things
25:35
that
25:35
God
25:35
can
25:35
and
25:36
can't
25:36
do.
25:36
What
25:37
would
25:37
constitute
25:37
as
25:38
something
25:38
being
25:39
coercive
25:39
or
25:40
manipulative
25:40
based
25:41
off
25:41
those
25:41
assumptions?
25:42
A
25:42
lot
25:42
of
25:42
process
25:43
people
25:43
assume
25:44
pan
25:44
experientialism
25:45
to
25:45
be
25:45
true.
25:46
That
25:46
messes
25:46
things
25:47
up.
25:48
So
25:48
I
25:48
think
25:48
it's.
25:49
It's
25:49
bigger
25:49
than
25:50
the
25:50
argument
25:50
of,
25:51
like,
25:52
is
25:52
love
25:53
coercive
25:54
or
25:54
non
25:54
coercive?
25:55
We
25:55
can
25:55
say,
25:55
okay,
25:56
we
25:56
think
25:56
love
25:56
is
25:56
not
25:56
coercive
25:57
in
25:57
the
25:57
philosophical
25:58
sense,
25:59
but
26:00
it
26:00
appears
26:00
that
26:01
there's
26:01
things
26:01
that
26:01
we
26:01
people
26:02
can
26:02
do
26:02
or
26:03
Mr.
26:03
Purple
26:04
can
26:04
do
26:06
that
26:06
you're
26:06
saying,
26:06
like,
26:07
oh,
26:07
If
26:07
God
26:07
did
26:07
that,
26:07
it
26:08
would
26:08
be
26:08
bad.
26:08
And
26:09
it's
26:09
because
26:09
there's
26:10
these
26:10
different
26:10
assumptions
26:11
baked
26:12
in
26:12
to
26:12
the
26:12
God
26:13
question
26:13
that
26:13
aren't
26:14
present
26:14
for
26:14
you.
26:15
And
26:15
I.
26:16
I
26:16
don't
26:16
know
26:16
if
26:16
that
26:17
makes
26:17
sense,
26:17
but
26:17
that's.
26:18
I
26:18
think
26:18
that.
26:18
I
26:19
think
26:19
that's
26:19
part
26:19
of
26:19
the
26:19
disconnect.
26:20
Yeah,
26:21
well,
26:21
that's.
26:22
To
26:22
me,
26:22
that's
26:22
why
26:23
I
26:23
think
26:23
story
26:24
is
26:24
so
26:24
powerful.
26:24
Right.
26:25
Because,
26:25
like,
26:25
as
26:26
soon
26:26
as
26:26
I
26:26
say
26:26
God
26:27
being
26:27
controlling
26:27
isn't
26:27
loving,
26:28
a
26:28
lot
26:28
of
26:28
people
26:28
are
26:28
defensive
26:29
and
26:29
they're
26:29
going
26:29
to
26:29
push
26:29
back
26:29
and
26:30
argue
26:30
back,
26:30
whatever.
26:30
But
26:31
I
26:31
could
26:31
show
26:31
them
26:31
that
26:31
TV
26:32
show
26:32
and
26:32
be
26:33
like,
26:33
do
26:33
you
26:33
think
26:33
what
26:34
he
26:34
did
26:34
was
26:34
good
26:34
or
26:35
bad?
26:35
And
26:36
it's
26:36
a
26:36
lot.
26:37
People
26:37
have
26:37
a
26:37
lot
26:37
more
26:37
freedom
26:38
to
26:38
really
26:38
address
26:39
whether
26:39
or
26:39
not
26:39
that
26:39
is
26:40
good
26:40
or
26:40
bad.
26:40
And
26:41
then
26:41
I
26:41
think,
26:41
okay,
26:42
once
26:42
we
26:42
settle
26:42
that
26:43
and
26:43
you're
26:43
saying
26:43
God
26:44
is
26:44
all
26:44
good,
26:44
so
26:45
let's
26:45
take
26:45
these
26:46
principles
26:46
and
26:46
tell
26:47
me
26:47
how
26:48
that
26:48
impacts
26:49
your
26:49
theology
26:49
at
26:49
that
26:50
point.
26:50
Right.
26:50
So
26:51
that's
26:51
why
26:51
I
26:51
think
26:51
it's
26:51
helpful
26:52
to
26:52
start
26:52
with
26:52
story.
26:52
In
26:53
some
26:53
ways,
26:53
I'm
26:53
going
26:53
to
26:54
push
26:54
you
26:54
a
26:54
little
26:55
bit
26:55
before
26:56
Tom
26:56
responds.
26:57
Not
26:57
on
26:57
anything
26:58
you
26:58
said.
26:58
I
26:58
just
26:59
want
27:00
a
27:00
clear
27:00
answer
27:01
on
27:02
a
27:02
different
27:02
part
27:02
of
27:02
the
27:03
question.
27:03
I
27:03
guess
27:04
when
27:05
Mr.
27:05
Purple
27:05
stopped
27:06
the
27:06
climb
27:08
up
27:08
until
27:08
the
27:08
part
27:08
that
27:09
he
27:09
tried
27:09
to
27:09
get
27:09
the
27:09
guy
27:09
to
27:09
kill
27:10
himself,
27:10
I
27:10
think
27:10
we'll
27:10
all
27:10
agree
27:11
forcing
27:12
someone
27:12
to
27:12
kill
27:12
himself
27:12
is
27:12
bad.
27:14
Is
27:14
what
27:14
he
27:14
did
27:15
good.
27:15
He
27:15
controlled
27:16
a
27:16
bunch
27:16
of
27:16
people.
27:17
He
27:17
forced
27:18
them
27:18
to
27:18
let
27:19
the
27:19
hostages
27:19
go.
27:19
They
27:20
didn't
27:20
have
27:20
a
27:20
choice,
27:21
so
27:21
he
27:21
took
27:21
their
27:21
choice
27:22
away.
27:23
But
27:23
the
27:23
hostages
27:24
were
27:24
freed.
27:25
Yeah.
27:26
So
27:26
I.
27:26
I
27:27
would
27:27
say
27:28
that
27:28
perhaps
27:29
that
27:29
situation
27:30
was
27:30
good.
27:31
But
27:31
what
27:32
I
27:32
take
27:32
issue
27:32
with
27:33
would
27:33
be
27:33
this.
27:34
If
27:34
Mr.
27:34
Purple.
27:35
So,
27:35
like,
27:35
now
27:36
I'm
27:36
taking
27:36
it
27:36
out
27:37
of
27:37
just
27:37
that
27:37
situation
27:38
and
27:39
pushing
27:39
it
27:39
up
27:39
to
27:39
the
27:40
register
27:41
of
27:41
God.
27:42
If
27:43
Mr.
27:43
Purple
27:44
could
27:44
prevent
27:45
all
27:46
cases
27:46
of
27:46
crime
27:47
at
27:47
all
27:47
times,
27:48
not
27:48
just
27:48
the
27:49
one,
27:49
and
27:49
chooses
27:50
not
27:50
to,
27:51
I
27:51
think
27:52
that
27:52
puts
27:52
Mr.
27:53
Purple
27:54
on
27:54
the
27:54
hook,
27:55
so
27:55
to
27:55
speak,
27:56
for
27:56
the
27:56
crimes.
27:57
And
27:57
so
27:57
if
27:57
he
27:58
presented
27:58
in
27:58
that
27:59
one
27:59
spot,
28:00
okay,
28:00
that
28:00
was
28:00
good.
28:01
But
28:01
if
28:01
Mr.
28:02
Purple
28:02
didn't
28:02
continue
28:03
to
28:03
do
28:03
that,
28:04
I
28:04
would
28:04
take
28:04
issue
28:05
with
28:05
it.
28:05
And
28:06
so
28:06
I
28:06
think
28:06
when
28:06
it
28:06
gets
28:06
pushed
28:07
out
28:07
to
28:07
God,
28:08
it's
28:08
the
28:08
same
28:08
problem
28:09
for
28:09
me.
28:09
If
28:10
God
28:10
could
28:11
prevent
28:11
genuine
28:12
suffering
28:12
and
28:12
evil
28:13
in
28:13
the
28:13
world
28:14
and
28:14
only
28:14
does
28:15
it
28:15
sometimes
28:16
and
28:16
not
28:16
every
28:17
time,
28:17
I
28:18
think
28:18
that
28:18
makes
28:18
God
28:19
liable
28:19
for
28:20
the
28:20
instances
28:21
when
28:21
God
28:21
chooses
28:22
not
28:22
to
28:23
prevent
28:23
those
28:23
things.
28:24
So
28:25
it
28:25
might
28:25
be
28:25
good
28:25
in
28:25
that
28:25
moment,
28:26
but
28:26
if
28:26
you
28:26
expand
28:27
it,
28:27
then
28:27
I
28:27
have
28:28
a
28:28
problem.
28:28
So.
28:29
So
28:29
how
28:29
do
28:29
you
28:29
do
28:30
with,
28:30
like
28:31
the
28:31
Minority
28:31
Report
28:32
where,
28:33
you
28:33
know,
28:33
they
28:34
do
28:34
have
28:34
recognition
28:35
of
28:35
a
28:35
crime
28:35
that's
28:35
gonna
28:36
happen,
28:36
but
28:36
it's
28:36
not
28:36
all
28:37
of
28:37
them.
28:37
What
28:38
then?
28:38
What
28:38
do
28:38
you
28:38
mean?
28:39
Sorry.
28:39
So,
28:40
like,
28:41
the
28:41
Minority
28:41
Report
28:42
has
28:42
the
28:42
same
28:43
qualm,
28:44
I
28:44
guess,
28:44
where
28:45
they
28:46
get
28:46
reports
28:46
of
28:47
major
28:47
crimes
28:47
that
28:47
are
28:47
going
28:47
to
28:48
happen
28:48
and
28:48
they
28:49
mobilize
28:49
to
28:49
stop
28:49
them
28:50
before
28:50
they
28:50
happen,
28:51
which.
28:51
Okay.
28:51
Have
28:52
you.
28:52
You
28:52
need
28:52
to
28:52
watch
28:53
it.
28:53
If
28:53
you
28:53
haven't,
28:53
it's
28:54
really
28:54
good.
28:56
I
28:56
can
28:56
respond
28:56
to
28:56
this
28:57
one
28:58
show.
28:59
Or
28:59
real
28:59
life
28:59
or
28:59
what.
29:00
What
29:00
is
29:00
happening.
29:01
This
29:01
just
29:01
sounds
29:02
old.
29:04
To
29:04
give
29:04
you
29:04
a
29:05
context,
29:05
in
29:05
the
29:05
Minority
29:06
port,
29:07
there's
29:07
this
29:08
machine
29:09
allows
29:09
them
29:10
to
29:10
see
29:10
the
29:10
future,
29:11
to
29:11
see
29:11
what
29:12
crimes
29:12
are
29:12
about
29:13
ready
29:13
to
29:13
happen.
29:14
And
29:14
since
29:14
they
29:15
can
29:15
see
29:15
the
29:15
future,
29:16
they
29:16
can
29:16
intervene
29:17
in
29:17
time
29:17
to
29:17
stop
29:18
them
29:18
before
29:18
they're
29:18
going
29:19
to
29:19
happen.
29:19
Well,
29:19
it
29:20
turns
29:20
out
29:20
that
29:20
it's
29:21
not
29:21
fully.
29:22
It's
29:23
not
29:23
inerrant.
29:24
It
29:24
makes
29:24
problems.
29:25
And
29:25
there's
29:25
this
29:25
Minority
29:26
Report
29:26
that's
29:26
always
29:27
there
29:27
as
29:27
well.
29:28
What
29:28
could
29:28
also
29:29
happen?
29:29
But
29:30
to
29:30
answer
29:30
that
29:31
question,
29:31
T.J.
29:32
i
29:32
think
29:33
the
29:33
usual
29:34
standard,
29:35
classic
29:36
view
29:36
of
29:36
God
29:38
falters
29:40
in
29:40
light
29:40
of
29:41
the
29:41
Minority
29:41
Report,
29:42
because
29:43
that
29:43
classic
29:44
view
29:44
has
29:44
a
29:44
God
29:44
who
29:45
knows
29:45
exactly
29:46
what's
29:46
going
29:46
to
29:46
happen
29:46
in
29:47
the
29:47
future
29:47
and
29:48
has
29:48
the
29:48
power
29:49
to
29:49
stop
29:49
it
29:49
whenever
29:50
that
29:50
God
29:50
wants
29:51
to.
29:51
But
29:51
the
29:51
God
29:52
that
29:52
at
29:52
least
29:52
Josh
29:53
and
29:53
I
29:53
believe
29:53
in
29:54
doesn't
29:54
know
29:55
the
29:55
future
29:55
with
29:56
absolute
29:56
certainty
29:57
and
29:57
so
29:57
can't
29:58
foresee
29:59
with
29:59
certainty
30:00
when
30:00
a
30:00
crime
30:00
is
30:01
going
30:01
to
30:01
happen
30:01
to
30:01
be
30:02
able
30:02
to
30:02
prevent
30:02
it.
30:03
Yeah.
30:03
So
30:03
it's
30:03
a
30:04
lot
30:04
more
30:04
like.
30:05
I
30:05
wish
30:05
I
30:05
remember
30:05
what
30:06
that
30:06
machine
30:06
was
30:06
called
30:07
from
30:07
the
30:07
Minority
30:07
Report.
30:08
It's
30:08
just
30:08
a
30:08
lot
30:08
more
30:09
like
30:09
that.
30:09
It's
30:10
a
30:10
good
30:10
movie.
30:10
Tom
30:11
Cruise
30:11
is
30:11
the
30:11
lead.
30:12
Yeah.
30:12
You
30:12
guys
30:13
ought
30:13
to
30:13
watch
30:13
it
30:14
now.
30:14
I
30:14
am
30:14
going
30:14
to
30:14
watch
30:15
it.
30:15
I'm
30:15
interested.
30:16
I
30:17
think
30:17
there's
30:17
one
30:17
other
30:18
issue,
30:18
though,
30:18
that
30:18
comes
30:19
into
30:19
play
30:19
as
30:19
Josh
30:20
was
30:20
talking,
30:20
I
30:20
was
30:20
saying.
30:21
Yep,
30:21
I
30:21
agree
30:21
with
30:21
everything
30:22
he
30:22
says,
30:23
but
30:23
he's
30:23
pointing
30:24
to
30:24
a
30:24
difference
30:24
between
30:25
Mr.
30:25
Purple,
30:26
even
30:26
though
30:26
I've
30:26
never
30:27
seen
30:27
this
30:28
show,
30:28
and
30:29
God
30:29
in
30:29
the
30:29
show.
30:29
It'S
30:30
usually
30:30
called
30:30
Kilgrave.
30:31
I'm
30:31
just
30:31
a
30:31
big
30:31
comic
30:32
nerd.
30:32
So
30:32
it's
30:32
still
30:33
Mr.
30:33
Purple
30:33
to
30:33
me.
30:34
Okay.
30:35
And
30:36
that
30:36
difference
30:36
is
30:37
that
30:37
most
30:37
people,
30:38
myself
30:38
included,
30:39
think
30:39
that
30:40
God
30:40
is
30:40
omnipresent.
30:41
And
30:41
so
30:41
God
30:42
would
30:42
be
30:42
directly
30:43
present
30:44
to
30:44
every
30:45
potential
30:46
evil
30:46
that
30:46
could
30:46
occur.
30:47
And
30:47
because
30:48
directly
30:48
present,
30:49
if
30:49
that
30:50
God
30:50
was
30:50
omnipotent,
30:51
if
30:51
that
30:51
God
30:52
should.
30:52
If
30:52
that
30:53
God's
30:53
loving.
30:53
Stop
30:54
it.
30:54
So
30:55
it's
30:55
hard
30:55
to
30:55
do
30:56
these
30:56
analogies
30:57
when
30:57
you're
30:58
talking
30:58
about
30:58
a
30:58
localized
30:59
individual
30:59
like
31:00
Mr.
31:00
Purple
31:01
versus
31:01
an
31:01
omnipresent
31:02
spirit
31:03
like
31:03
most
31:03
people
31:04
think
31:04
God
31:04
is.
31:05
Yeah,
31:05
but
31:06
in
31:06
that
31:06
one
31:07
moment,
31:08
I'm
31:08
going
31:08
to
31:08
push
31:08
you
31:08
on
31:08
the
31:09
same
31:09
thing.
31:09
Is
31:10
what
31:10
Mr.
31:10
Purple
31:11
did
31:11
good?
31:12
Yeah.
31:13
I
31:13
don't
31:13
know
31:13
the
31:13
scenario
31:14
well
31:14
enough,
31:14
but
31:15
if
31:15
you're
31:15
saying
31:16
he
31:16
did
31:17
something
31:17
that
31:17
had
31:18
both
31:18
good,
31:18
he
31:19
prevented
31:19
some
31:20
evil
31:20
but
31:20
then
31:21
caused
31:21
other
31:21
evil.
31:22
Is
31:22
that
31:22
what
31:22
you're
31:22
saying?
31:23
He
31:24
went
31:24
into
31:24
a
31:24
situation,
31:25
he
31:26
took
31:26
people's
31:27
choice
31:27
away,
31:27
he
31:28
forced
31:28
the
31:28
bad
31:28
guys
31:29
to
31:29
let
31:30
the
31:30
innocent
31:31
people
31:31
go
31:32
free,
31:32
basically.
31:33
But
31:33
by
31:33
taking
31:34
their
31:34
choice
31:34
away,
31:34
he's
31:35
still
31:35
doing
31:35
something
31:35
bad
31:36
even
31:37
though
31:37
it
31:37
was
31:38
to
31:38
save
31:38
people
31:38
in
31:38
that
31:39
instance.
31:40
Yeah.
31:40
I
31:41
guess
31:41
my
31:41
answer
31:41
to
31:42
that
31:42
is,
31:43
who's
31:43
faster,
31:44
unicorns
31:45
or
31:45
mermaids?
31:46
And
31:46
by
31:46
that
31:47
I
31:47
mean.
31:48
By
31:48
that
31:49
I
31:49
mean
31:50
when
31:50
we
31:50
have
31:51
a
31:51
scenario
31:51
that's
31:52
not
31:52
realistic,
31:53
in
31:54
other
31:54
words,
31:55
this
31:56
scenario
31:56
has
31:56
a
31:57
person
31:57
who's
31:57
controlling
31:58
other
31:58
people,
31:59
and
31:59
I
31:59
don't
31:59
think
31:59
that's
32:00
ever
32:00
possible
32:00
at
32:00
any
32:01
time,
32:01
then
32:02
that's
32:02
speculating
32:03
on
32:03
something
32:03
that's,
32:04
you
32:04
know,
32:05
it's
32:05
not
32:05
going
32:05
to
32:06
be
32:06
get
32:06
us
32:06
anywhere
32:07
because
32:07
it's
32:07
like
32:08
a
32:08
unicorn
32:08
or
32:08
a
32:09
mermaid
32:09
in
32:09
a
32:09
race.
32:10
Well,
32:10
here's
32:11
why
32:11
I
32:11
think
32:11
it's
32:11
important,
32:12
because
32:12
I
32:13
think
32:13
if
32:13
we
32:13
can
32:13
pin
32:14
that
32:14
down
32:14
and
32:14
say,
32:16
yes,
32:16
it
32:16
was
32:16
good
32:17
because
32:17
the
32:17
outcome
32:18
was
32:18
good,
32:18
then
32:19
that
32:19
brings
32:19
a
32:19
lot
32:19
of
32:19
questions
32:20
to
32:20
okay,
32:21
so
32:21
if
32:21
God
32:21
knows
32:21
the
32:21
future,
32:22
the
32:22
outcome
32:22
is
32:22
going
32:22
to
32:22
be
32:23
good.
32:23
That
32:23
means
32:23
everything
32:24
he
32:24
does
32:24
must
32:24
be
32:24
good.
32:25
But
32:25
if
32:25
we
32:25
pin
32:25
it
32:26
down
32:26
and
32:26
say
32:27
the
32:27
act
32:27
was
32:27
bad
32:28
because
32:28
he
32:28
was
32:28
taking
32:28
choice
32:29
away,
32:29
even
32:29
though
32:30
the
32:30
outcome
32:30
was
32:30
good,
32:31
that
32:31
would
32:32
suggest
32:32
that
32:32
God
32:33
can't
32:34
just
32:34
be
32:34
good
32:35
because
32:35
the
32:35
outcome
32:35
might
32:36
be
32:36
good
32:36
in
32:36
the
32:36
end.
32:37
But
32:38
that's
32:38
where
32:38
Josh's
32:39
answer
32:39
comes
32:39
in,
32:40
which
32:40
I
32:41
agree
32:41
entirely
32:41
with.
32:42
Josh
32:42
said,
32:43
well,
32:43
if
32:43
he
32:44
could
32:44
take
32:44
away
32:45
freedom
32:46
sometimes
32:47
and
32:47
doesn't
32:48
do
32:48
it
32:48
all
32:48
the
32:49
time
32:49
to
32:49
prevent
32:49
evil,
32:50
then
32:50
he's
32:50
asleep
32:51
on
32:51
the
32:51
job.
32:51
He's
32:51
not
32:52
perfectly
32:52
good.
32:53
So
32:53
I
32:54
would
32:54
go
32:54
with
32:54
Josh's
32:55
answer
32:55
there.
32:55
Okay,
32:58
I'm
32:58
going
32:59
to
32:59
get
32:59
a
32:59
little
32:59
bit
32:59
into
33:00
my
33:00
own
33:00
kind
33:00
of
33:02
weird
33:02
thoughts
33:03
and
33:03
then
33:03
let
33:03
you
33:04
guys
33:04
rip
33:04
it
33:04
and
33:04
see
33:04
if
33:04
there's
33:05
anything
33:05
else
33:05
you
33:05
want
33:05
to
33:05
say
33:05
and
33:06
we
33:06
can
33:06
start
33:06
wrapping
33:07
this
33:07
up.
33:08
Coming
33:08
into
33:09
like
33:09
some
33:09
weird,
33:09
like
33:10
maybe
33:10
a
33:10
little
33:10
bit
33:10
of
33:10
white
33:11
heading,
33:11
a
33:11
little
33:11
bit
33:11
Taoist,
33:12
I
33:12
don't
33:12
know,
33:12
we'll
33:12
see.
33:14
But
33:15
so.
33:15
So
33:15
for
33:15
me,
33:16
just
33:16
kind
33:16
of
33:16
like
33:16
my
33:16
own,
33:17
I
33:17
guess,
33:18
ontological
33:18
view
33:19
of
33:19
God
33:19
maybe,
33:20
you
33:21
know,
33:21
I'm
33:21
thinking
33:22
from
33:22
the
33:22
wisdom
33:23
of
33:23
the
33:23
Taoist
33:23
tradition
33:24
of
33:24
like
33:25
this
33:25
harmony,
33:25
the
33:25
thing
33:25
that
33:26
connects
33:26
us
33:26
all.
33:26
And
33:26
to
33:27
me,
33:27
like
33:27
God
33:27
is
33:28
that
33:28
thing.
33:28
But
33:28
also
33:29
from
33:29
the
33:29
Christian
33:29
tradition,
33:29
I
33:30
still
33:30
think
33:30
I
33:30
can
33:30
commune
33:31
with
33:31
the
33:32
harmony
33:32
itself.
33:33
So
33:33
I
33:33
think
33:34
both
33:34
the
33:34
thing
33:34
that
33:34
connects
33:35
us
33:35
all
33:35
as
33:35
well
33:35
as
33:36
this
33:37
entity
33:37
that
33:37
I
33:37
am
33:37
able
33:38
to
33:38
converse
33:38
with.
33:40
And
33:41
just
33:41
to
33:41
pile
33:41
on
33:42
things,
33:42
I'm
33:43
not
33:43
convinced
33:44
that
33:44
time
33:44
is
33:44
real.
33:45
What
33:45
I
33:45
know
33:45
is
33:45
real
33:46
is
33:46
each
33:46
moment
33:46
I'm
33:46
given.
33:47
So
33:47
I'm
33:47
not
33:48
guaranteed
33:48
the
33:49
outcome
33:49
of
33:49
any
33:49
decision.
33:50
So
33:50
I
33:51
would
33:51
say
33:52
that
33:53
any
33:53
one
33:53
act
33:54
taking
33:54
choice
33:55
away,
33:55
you
33:56
know,
33:56
voting
33:56
for
33:57
someone
33:57
with
33:57
guilty
33:58
of
33:58
sexual
33:58
assault,
33:58
whatever,
33:59
it
33:59
does
33:59
not
34:00
matter
34:00
what
34:00
the
34:00
outcome
34:00
is.
34:01
What
34:01
you
34:01
did
34:02
in
34:02
that
34:02
moment
34:02
was
34:02
still
34:03
wrong.
34:03
So
34:04
I
34:04
think
34:04
the
34:04
act
34:04
itself
34:05
matters
34:05
regardless
34:06
of
34:06
the
34:06
outcome.
34:07
So
34:07
to
34:07
me,
34:07
taking
34:08
their
34:08
choice
34:08
away,
34:09
even
34:09
though
34:09
people
34:09
got
34:10
freedom,
34:10
were
34:10
saved,
34:11
taking
34:11
people's
34:12
choice
34:12
away
34:12
was
34:12
still
34:13
wrong
34:13
in
34:13
that
34:14
instance.
34:15
That
34:16
would
34:16
just
34:16
be
34:16
kind
34:16
of
34:16
how
34:16
I
34:17
look
34:17
at
34:17
it.
34:17
The
34:18
outcome
34:18
can
34:18
be
34:18
good
34:18
without
34:19
the
34:19
action
34:19
being
34:19
good.
34:20
I
34:20
guess
34:20
would
34:20
be
34:20
another
34:21
way
34:21
of
34:21
working
34:21
that
34:21
that's
34:22
less
34:22
complicated.
34:24
Yeah.
34:24
In
34:24
ethics,
34:25
this
34:25
is
34:25
a
34:25
debate
34:26
on
34:26
whether
34:26
or
34:26
not
34:27
actions
34:27
are
34:27
good
34:28
based
34:28
on
34:28
their
34:28
consequences
34:29
or
34:29
their
34:29
motives.
34:30
And
34:31
I'm
34:31
in
34:31
the
34:31
camp
34:31
that
34:32
thinks
34:32
that
34:32
motives
34:33
are
34:33
more
34:33
important
34:33
than
34:34
consequences.
34:35
But
34:36
the
34:36
motive
34:37
has
34:37
to
34:37
be
34:37
for
34:37
good
34:38
consequences.
34:39
So
34:39
consequences
34:39
still
34:40
matter.
34:40
It's
34:40
just
34:40
that
34:41
the
34:41
motive
34:41
is
34:42
for
34:42
good
34:42
consequences.
34:43
So
34:43
if
34:44
I
34:44
do
34:44
something
34:45
out
34:45
of
34:45
love
34:46
for
34:46
my
34:46
wife
34:47
that
34:47
ends
34:47
in
34:47
disaster
34:48
and
34:48
harms
34:49
people,
34:49
I
34:50
wouldn't
34:50
say
34:50
I
34:50
did
34:51
evil
34:51
because
34:51
my
34:51
motives
34:52
were
34:52
good.
34:53
On
34:53
the
34:53
other
34:54
hand,
34:54
if
34:54
I
34:55
try
34:55
to
34:55
hurt
34:56
somebody
34:56
but
34:56
accidentally
34:57
help
34:57
them,
34:58
I
34:58
wouldn't
34:58
say
34:58
I'm
34:58
loving
34:59
because
34:59
I
35:00
had
35:00
bad
35:00
motives
35:01
and
35:01
they
35:01
ended
35:01
up
35:01
having
35:01
good
35:02
consequences.
35:03
So
35:03
I'm
35:03
with
35:03
you
35:03
on
35:04
there,
35:04
but
35:04
when
35:04
it
35:04
comes
35:05
to
35:05
time,
35:06
I
35:06
think
35:07
everybody
35:07
who
35:07
denies
35:08
the
35:08
reality
35:09
of
35:09
time
35:10
is
35:10
a
35:10
hypocrite.
35:12
All
35:12
right.
35:13
Heresy,
35:14
hypocrite.
35:15
I'm
35:15
all
35:15
of
35:15
it
35:15
today.
35:16
It's
35:16
fine.
35:17
Well,
35:17
we
35:17
all
35:17
live
35:18
as
35:18
if
35:18
time
35:18
is
35:19
real.
35:19
Why
35:19
go
35:20
around
35:20
pretending
35:20
like
35:21
it's
35:21
not?
35:21
No
35:21
one
35:22
can
35:22
do
35:22
it
35:22
and
35:22
live
35:22
consistently.
35:24
Well,
35:24
yes,
35:25
yes
35:25
and
35:25
no.
35:26
Maybe
35:26
that's,
35:27
that's
35:27
a
35:27
talk
35:27
for.
35:30
Because,
35:30
you
35:30
know,
35:31
you
35:31
can
35:31
believe
35:31
in
35:31
space
35:32
time
35:32
without
35:32
believing
35:32
in
35:33
time.
35:33
They
35:34
are
35:34
different.
35:35
I
35:35
think
35:35
our
35:36
conceptions
35:37
of
35:37
time
35:37
are
35:37
going
35:37
to
35:38
vary
35:38
and
35:38
there's
35:39
going
35:39
to
35:39
be
35:39
different
35:39
models
35:40
for
35:40
time,
35:40
etc.
35:41
But
35:41
I
35:41
think
35:41
every
35:42
single
35:42
one
35:42
of
35:42
us,
35:43
including
35:43
you,
35:44
we
35:44
all
35:45
live
35:45
as
35:45
if
35:46
time
35:46
is
35:46
real.
35:47
I
35:47
call
35:47
it
35:47
experiential,
35:48
non
35:48
negotiable.
35:49
None
35:49
of
35:50
us
35:50
gets
35:50
out
35:50
of
35:50
that.
35:51
That's,
35:51
that's
35:52
fair.
35:54
It
35:54
could
35:54
not
35:54
exist.
35:55
But.
35:56
But
35:56
we
35:56
still
35:56
have
35:57
to
35:57
live
35:57
like
35:57
it
35:57
does.
35:58
So.
35:58
Yeah.
35:59
So
35:59
it
35:59
doesn't
35:59
matter
36:00
anyway.
36:01
Yeah.
36:02
Did
36:02
y'all
36:02
have
36:02
anything
36:02
else
36:02
you
36:02
wanted
36:03
to,
36:03
to
36:03
throw
36:04
out
36:04
there
36:04
from
36:05
that?
36:05
The
36:05
other
36:05
podcast?
36:06
I.
36:06
I
36:06
know
36:06
at
36:06
some
36:07
point
36:07
I.
36:07
I
36:07
said
36:08
something
36:08
that
36:08
I
36:08
was
36:08
like,
36:08
man,
36:09
Tom's,
36:09
Tom's
36:09
gonna
36:10
push
36:10
me
36:10
on
36:10
that.
36:10
But
36:10
I
36:10
don't
36:10
remember
36:11
what
36:11
it
36:11
was.
36:11
I'd
36:12
like
36:12
to
36:12
riff
36:13
a
36:13
little
36:13
bit
36:13
of
36:13
something
36:13
on
36:14
what
36:14
Josh
36:14
Patterson
36:15
said
36:15
because
36:15
he
36:16
brought
36:16
in
36:16
process
36:17
thought
36:17
and
36:17
pan
36:18
experientialism
36:19
and
36:19
these
36:19
big
36:20
words
36:20
and
36:20
such.
36:22
I
36:22
think
36:22
Josh
36:23
is
36:23
pointing
36:23
to
36:24
something
36:24
that
36:25
is
36:25
crucial
36:26
for
36:26
this
36:26
discussion
36:27
of
36:27
Mr.
36:28
Purple
36:28
God,
36:29
how
36:29
we
36:29
live
36:29
our
36:29
lives,
36:30
etc.
36:30
And
36:30
that
36:31
is
36:31
if
36:32
we're
36:32
going
36:32
to
36:33
analyze
36:34
not
36:34
only
36:34
God's
36:35
action,
36:35
but
36:36
our
36:36
own
36:37
actions
36:37
in
36:37
terms
36:38
of
36:38
its
36:38
morality,
36:39
goodness,
36:39
badness,
36:40
appropriateness,
36:41
or
36:41
whatever,
36:42
we
36:42
have
36:43
to
36:43
take
36:43
into
36:43
account
36:44
a
36:44
whole
36:45
wide
36:45
variety
36:46
of
36:47
things
36:48
pertaining
36:48
to
36:48
life,
36:49
what
36:49
philosophers
36:50
called
36:50
an
36:51
ontology,
36:52
what
36:52
we
36:52
think
36:52
the
36:53
world
36:53
is
36:53
like,
36:54
what
36:54
it's
36:54
made
36:55
up
36:55
of.
36:55
And
36:56
most
36:56
people
36:57
in
36:57
the
36:57
Western,
36:58
in
36:58
Western
36:58
philosophy
36:59
have
37:00
had
37:00
a
37:00
view
37:00
that
37:01
said
37:01
something
37:01
like
37:02
the
37:02
small
37:03
things
37:03
of
37:03
existence,
37:04
maybe
37:05
the
37:06
quarks,
37:07
cells,
37:08
worms,
37:08
plants,
37:09
those
37:10
things
37:10
are
37:12
inanimate
37:13
stuff.
37:14
They
37:14
have
37:15
no
37:15
mentality,
37:16
they
37:16
have
37:16
no
37:17
freedom,
37:17
they
37:17
have
37:17
no
37:18
spontaneity.
37:19
And
37:20
then
37:20
somehow,
37:21
maybe
37:22
it
37:22
was
37:22
an
37:22
act
37:22
of
37:22
God,
37:23
maybe
37:23
evolution,
37:25
somehow
37:26
mentality
37:27
and
37:27
consciousness
37:28
emerged
37:29
for
37:29
some
37:29
people.
37:30
They
37:30
think
37:30
only
37:31
humans
37:31
have
37:31
it.
37:32
Other
37:32
people
37:32
think
37:33
dogs
37:33
and
37:34
dolphins
37:34
and
37:34
elephants
37:35
have
37:35
it.
37:35
But
37:35
somehow
37:36
in
37:37
life,
37:38
this
37:39
agency
37:39
mentality
37:40
emerged.
37:41
And
37:42
then
37:42
when
37:42
we
37:42
talk
37:43
about
37:43
divine
37:44
action
37:44
or
37:45
our
37:45
action,
37:46
then
37:46
we
37:47
try
37:47
to
37:47
account
37:47
for
37:48
that
37:48
in
37:48
terms
37:48
of
37:49
the
37:49
schema.
37:50
And
37:50
that's
37:51
why
37:51
some
37:51
people
37:52
just
37:52
don't
37:52
like
37:52
the
37:53
idea
37:53
of
37:53
a
37:53
God
37:54
who
37:54
controls
37:54
free
37:55
will.
37:55
Creatures
37:55
like
37:56
you
37:56
and
37:56
me
37:56
and
37:56
maybe
37:57
dogs
37:57
and
37:57
dolphins
37:57
and
37:58
elephants,
37:58
but
37:59
they're
37:59
usually
37:59
pretty
38:00
okay
38:01
with
38:02
God
38:02
controlling
38:03
quarks
38:04
and
38:04
worms
38:04
and
38:05
plants.
38:06
But
38:06
what
38:06
Josh
38:07
is
38:07
pointing
38:07
to
38:08
is
38:08
a
38:08
different
38:09
way
38:09
of
38:09
looking
38:09
at
38:09
reality
38:10
that
38:11
says
38:11
that
38:11
even
38:12
down
38:12
to
38:12
the
38:12
smallest
38:13
level,
38:13
there's
38:14
some
38:14
kind
38:14
of
38:14
subjectivity,
38:15
mentality,
38:16
agency.
38:17
And
38:17
if
38:18
that's
38:18
right,
38:18
and
38:19
it's
38:19
a
38:19
big
38:19
if,
38:19
but
38:20
I
38:20
think
38:20
it's
38:20
a
38:20
good
38:20
gamble
38:21
if
38:22
that's
38:22
right,
38:23
then
38:23
God's
38:24
love
38:24
and
38:24
action,
38:25
even
38:25
toward
38:26
the
38:26
quarks,
38:27
would
38:28
be
38:29
wrong
38:29
if
38:29
it
38:29
was
38:30
controlling,
38:31
just
38:31
like
38:31
it
38:31
would
38:31
be
38:31
wrong
38:32
for
38:32
God
38:32
to
38:32
control
38:33
free
38:33
will
38:33
humans,
38:34
if
38:34
you
38:34
believe
38:35
it's
38:35
wrong.
38:35
But,
38:35
you
38:35
know,
38:36
assuming
38:36
you're
38:36
a
38:37
free
38:37
will
38:37
theist,
38:39
and
38:39
so
38:40
if
38:40
you
38:40
extend
38:40
that
38:41
all
38:41
the
38:41
way
38:41
down
38:42
to
38:42
the
38:42
smallest
38:42
parts
38:43
of
38:43
reality,
38:44
I
38:44
think
38:45
you
38:45
can
38:45
provide
38:46
a
38:47
holistic
38:48
picture
38:49
of
38:49
God's
38:49
action
38:50
in
38:50
the
38:50
world
38:51
that
38:51
can
38:52
answer
38:52
the
38:53
biggest
38:53
objections
38:54
to
38:54
belief
38:55
in
38:55
God.
38:55
At
38:55
all.
38:56
Yeah,
38:58
I
38:59
don't
38:59
know
38:59
if
38:59
this
38:59
builds
38:59
on
39:00
that
39:00
or
39:01
compliments
39:01
that
39:01
or
39:02
what.
39:03
And
39:04
it's
39:04
because,
39:05
you
39:05
know,
39:05
people
39:05
like
39:05
Josh
39:06
Patterson
39:06
and
39:06
Tripp
39:07
and
39:07
I
39:07
think
39:07
even
39:07
you've
39:08
mentioned
39:08
my
39:08
head
39:08
before.
39:09
Anyway,
39:09
you
39:10
guys
39:10
made
39:10
me
39:10
think
39:10
too
39:11
much.
39:11
And
39:12
I.
39:12
Especially
39:13
since
39:13
I
39:13
was
39:13
already
39:13
leaning
39:14
the
39:14
daoist
39:14
thing.
39:15
I
39:15
am
39:15
convinced
39:16
all
39:16
of
39:16
us
39:16
are
39:16
defined
39:17
by
39:17
our
39:17
relationships,
39:18
not
39:18
necessarily
39:18
the
39:18
bits
39:19
and
39:19
pieces
39:19
that
39:19
make
39:20
us.
39:21
And
39:22
I
39:22
think
39:22
that's
39:22
interesting
39:23
about.
39:23
With
39:23
what
39:23
you
39:23
were
39:24
just
39:24
talking
39:24
about
39:24
and
39:24
in
39:25
this
39:25
conversation.
39:26
And
39:27
it
39:27
kind
39:27
of
39:27
brings
39:27
around
39:27
circle
39:27
for
39:28
all
39:28
those
39:28
who
39:28
are
39:28
listening.
39:28
Like,
39:28
why
39:29
does
39:29
any
39:29
of
39:29
this
39:29
matter?
39:31
Because.
39:32
Whatever.
39:33
And
39:33
I'll
39:33
go
39:33
back
39:33
to
39:33
Mr.
39:34
Purple
39:34
because
39:34
again,
39:34
I
39:34
think
39:35
it's
39:35
easier.
39:35
We
39:36
see
39:36
that
39:36
he
39:37
is
39:37
incapable
39:37
of
39:38
love
39:38
and
39:38
that
39:38
defines
39:38
his
39:39
character
39:39
because
39:40
every
39:40
time
39:40
he
39:41
speaks,
39:41
people
39:41
are
39:41
controlled.
39:42
So
39:42
he's
39:42
not
39:42
able
39:42
to
39:43
be
39:43
in
39:43
an
39:43
open
39:43
relationship.
39:45
See
39:45
if
39:45
I
39:45
did
39:45
there.
39:46
But
39:48
because
39:49
of
39:49
that,
39:49
that
39:49
defines
39:49
who
39:49
he
39:50
is
39:50
because
39:50
that's
39:50
his
39:50
relationship
39:51
to
39:51
everyone
39:51
else.
39:52
So
39:52
I
39:52
think
39:53
that's
39:53
true
39:53
of
39:53
each
39:53
of
39:54
us.
39:54
So
39:54
I
39:54
think
39:55
whatever
39:55
you
39:55
think
39:55
of
39:55
God
39:56
in
39:56
his
39:56
relationship
39:57
to
39:57
you,
39:58
you
39:58
know,
39:58
when
39:58
we
39:58
say
39:58
God
39:58
is
39:59
love,
39:59
automatically
40:00
we're
40:00
defining
40:00
him
40:00
by
40:00
his
40:01
relationship
40:01
to
40:01
everything,
40:02
right?
40:02
Because
40:03
he
40:03
is
40:03
love.
40:04
And
40:05
I
40:05
think
40:05
if
40:05
you
40:05
don't
40:06
get
40:06
something
40:07
right
40:07
about
40:07
God's
40:08
relationship
40:08
to
40:08
you,
40:09
it's
40:09
hard
40:09
for
40:09
you
40:09
to
40:10
be
40:10
in
40:10
a
40:10
proper
40:10
relationship
40:11
with
40:11
him
40:11
or,
40:12
you
40:12
know,
40:12
the
40:13
divine,
40:13
it,
40:13
she,
40:14
whatever.
40:15
You,
40:15
you
40:15
know,
40:15
enter
40:16
a
40:16
pronoun
40:16
here.
40:17
So
40:18
I
40:18
think
40:18
it's
40:18
important
40:19
for
40:19
us
40:19
to
40:19
understand,
40:19
you
40:20
know,
40:20
just
40:20
like
40:21
it
40:21
wouldn't
40:21
really
40:22
work
40:22
if
40:22
I
40:23
knew
40:23
my
40:23
wife
40:23
was
40:24
married
40:24
to
40:24
me,
40:24
but
40:24
she
40:24
didn't
40:25
know
40:26
that
40:26
wouldn't
40:27
work.
40:27
So
40:27
I
40:27
think
40:27
it's
40:28
important
40:28
for
40:28
us
40:28
to
40:28
understand
40:29
our
40:29
relationships
40:29
so
40:30
that
40:30
we're
40:30
engaging
40:30
with
40:31
them
40:31
properly.
40:32
So
40:32
that's
40:32
kind
40:32
of
40:32
why
40:33
I
40:33
would
40:33
say
40:33
all
40:33
of
40:33
this
40:34
is
40:34
important
40:34
and
40:35
relationships
40:36
matter,
40:37
including
40:37
your
40:38
relationship
40:38
to
40:38
God
40:38
and
40:39
Jesus
40:39
and
40:40
one
40:40
another,
40:40
etc.
40:40
Etc.
40:42
What
40:43
do
40:43
you.
40:43
What
40:43
do
40:43
you
40:43
think
40:43
about
40:43
that,
40:44
Tom?
40:44
Do
40:44
you
40:44
have
40:44
any
40:44
final
40:45
thoughts,
40:45
words?
40:46
I
40:47
like
40:47
that.
40:48
Maybe
40:48
my
40:48
final
40:49
thought
40:49
is
40:49
that
40:50
those
40:50
of
40:50
us
40:51
who
40:51
are
40:51
listening,
40:52
who
40:52
may
40:53
be
40:53
thinking,
40:53
okay,
40:54
well,
40:54
this
40:55
God
40:55
is
40:55
love
40:56
thing,
40:56
that
40:56
seems
40:56
pretty
40:57
obvious.
40:58
Not
40:58
saying
40:58
anything
40:59
new
40:59
here.
41:00
God
41:00
is
41:00
relational.
41:01
That
41:01
sounds
41:01
nice.
41:02
I
41:03
just
41:03
might
41:03
want
41:03
to
41:03
remind
41:04
them
41:04
that
41:05
the
41:05
most
41:05
important,
41:06
the
41:06
most
41:06
influential
41:08
Christian
41:08
theologians
41:09
in
41:09
history
41:10
and
41:10
many
41:10
of
41:11
the
41:11
most
41:11
influential
41:12
Muslim
41:12
and
41:13
Jewish
41:13
Christians,
41:14
they
41:15
believed
41:15
that
41:15
we
41:16
could
41:16
love
41:16
God,
41:16
but
41:17
God
41:17
couldn't
41:17
love
41:18
us
41:18
back.
41:18
God
41:19
didn't
41:19
have
41:19
the
41:19
kind
41:20
of
41:20
relational
41:21
influence
41:23
for
41:23
us
41:23
to
41:24
influence
41:24
that
41:25
God.
41:25
And
41:26
so
41:26
what
41:26
we're
41:27
talking
41:27
about
41:27
here
41:27
is
41:28
actually
41:28
a
41:28
pretty
41:28
radical
41:29
idea.
41:29
I
41:29
think
41:30
it's
41:30
pretty
41:30
biblical,
41:31
but
41:32
it's
41:32
not
41:33
what
41:33
most
41:34
Christian
41:34
theologians
41:35
have
41:35
thought
41:35
throughout
41:36
history.
41:37
Why
41:37
did
41:38
they
41:38
say
41:38
that
41:38
he
41:38
couldn't
41:39
love
41:39
us
41:39
back?
41:40
For
41:40
those
41:40
who
41:40
might
41:40
not
41:40
be
41:41
familiar.
41:41
Yeah,
41:42
they
41:42
were
41:42
really
41:42
worried
41:43
that
41:44
a
41:44
God
41:44
who
41:45
was
41:45
affected
41:46
by
41:46
creation
41:47
could
41:48
be
41:48
influenced
41:48
to
41:49
be
41:49
bad,
41:50
to
41:50
be
41:50
less
41:50
than
41:51
perfect.
41:51
They
41:51
wanted
41:52
a
41:52
God
41:52
who
41:52
is
41:53
in
41:53
all
41:53
ways
41:54
unchanging
41:55
and
41:55
unaffected
41:56
because
41:56
they
41:56
thought
41:57
any
41:57
effect
41:58
from
41:58
a
41:58
sinful
41:58
world
41:59
or
41:59
just
41:59
anything
42:00
less
42:00
than
42:00
perfect
42:01
would
42:01
make
42:02
God
42:02
less
42:02
than
42:02
perfect.
42:03
And
42:03
they
42:03
didn't
42:03
realize
42:04
that
42:04
they
42:04
could
42:05
affirm
42:05
God's
42:06
perfect
42:06
nature
42:07
of
42:07
love,
42:08
but
42:08
also
42:08
have
42:09
a
42:09
God
42:09
who
42:09
really
42:10
perfectly
42:10
changes
42:11
and
42:11
is
42:12
influenced.
42:12
But
42:13
yeah,
42:13
that's
42:13
a
42:14
major
42:14
issue,
42:15
actually,
42:15
that,
42:16
that
42:16
brings
42:16
me
42:16
to
42:17
what
42:17
I
42:17
want
42:17
to
42:18
invite
42:18
the
42:18
three
42:18
of
42:19
you
42:19
to
42:19
and
42:20
anybody
42:20
who's
42:20
listening
42:21
to
42:21
this.
42:22
I
42:23
have
42:23
decided
42:23
to
42:24
write
42:24
a
42:24
three
42:25
volume
42:25
systematic
42:26
theology
42:26
of
42:27
love.
42:27
And
42:28
I'm
42:29
going
42:29
to
42:29
be
42:29
posting
42:30
chapters
42:31
of
42:31
this
42:31
on
42:32
my
42:32
substack
42:32
account.
42:33
And
42:33
I'd
42:33
love
42:34
for
42:34
you
42:34
to
42:34
chime
42:35
in
42:35
and
42:35
give
42:36
me
42:36
suggestions
42:37
on
42:37
how
42:37
to
42:37
improve
42:37
it.
42:38
The
42:38
first
42:39
volume
42:39
is
42:39
going
42:39
to
42:40
have
42:40
about
42:41
12
42:42
chapters
42:42
and
42:42
I
42:43
think
42:43
I've
42:43
got
42:43
eight
42:43
of
42:43
them
42:44
written.
42:44
But
42:44
I'm
42:45
going
42:45
to
42:45
be
42:45
bringing
42:45
them
42:46
out
42:46
slowly
42:47
in
42:47
the
42:47
coming
42:48
months.
42:49
If
42:49
you'd
42:49
be
42:49
interested
42:50
in
42:50
helping
42:50
me
42:51
think
42:51
through
42:51
a
42:52
systematic
42:52
theology
42:53
of
42:53
love,
42:54
come
42:55
on
42:55
over
42:55
to
42:55
my
42:55
substack
42:56
and
42:56
check
42:57
it
42:57
out.
42:57
Yeah,
42:58
yeah,
42:58
I
42:58
think
42:58
I
42:59
am
42:59
following
42:59
your
42:59
subject.
43:00
I'm
43:00
pretty
43:00
sure
43:01
I
43:01
gotta
43:01
double
43:02
check.
43:02
So
43:03
yeah,
43:03
I'll
43:04
be
43:04
happy
43:04
to
43:04
engage
43:05
with
43:05
that
43:05
and
43:06
jump
43:06
over
43:06
there
43:07
too.
43:07
So,
43:08
yeah,
43:09
this
43:09
has
43:09
been
43:09
fun.
43:10
This
43:10
has
43:10
been
43:10
fun.
43:11
And
43:11
now
43:11
I
43:12
am
43:12
on
43:12
your
43:12
substack.
43:13
So
43:13
really
43:13
quick,
43:13
tell
43:13
us
43:13
about
43:13
hortcon
43:14
and
43:14
then
43:14
we're
43:14
going
43:14
to
43:14
wrap
43:15
this
43:15
up.
43:16
Well,
43:17
Josh
43:17
and
43:17
I
43:17
are
43:18
going
43:18
to
43:18
be
43:18
this
43:18
summer
43:19
at
43:20
a
43:20
really
43:20
great
43:21
resort
43:21
called
43:22
the
43:22
Grand
43:22
Targhee
43:23
Resort
43:23
between
43:24
Teton
43:25
national
43:25
park
43:26
and
43:26
Yellowstone
43:27
National
43:27
Park.
43:27
A
43:28
Monday
43:28
through
43:29
Friday
43:29
event
43:30
on
43:30
open
43:31
and
43:31
relational
43:31
theology.
43:32
We
43:32
fly
43:33
in
43:33
and
43:33
listen
43:33
to
43:34
speakers
43:34
and
43:34
go
43:35
on
43:35
hikes
43:35
and
43:36
just
43:36
spend
43:36
a
43:36
great
43:37
week
43:37
together
43:38
talking
43:38
with
43:39
people
43:39
about
43:39
big
43:39
ideas
43:40
related
43:40
to
43:40
open
43:41
relational
43:41
thought.
43:42
And
43:42
it's
43:43
a
43:43
family
43:43
friendly
43:44
kind
43:44
of
43:44
a
43:44
thing.
43:44
We
43:45
don't
43:45
work
43:45
people
43:45
too
43:45
hard.
43:47
We
43:48
have
43:48
conversations
43:49
until
43:49
noon
43:49
and
43:49
then
43:50
the
43:50
rest
43:50
of
43:50
the
43:50
day
43:50
is
43:51
pretty
43:51
much
43:51
off
43:51
until
43:52
evening.
43:52
And
43:52
then
43:52
Josh
43:53
is
43:53
going
43:53
to
43:53
come
43:54
in
43:54
and
43:54
help
43:55
us
43:55
in
43:55
the
43:55
evening
43:56
to
43:56
have
43:56
conversations
43:57
and
43:57
have
43:58
some
43:58
fun
43:58
at
43:58
the
43:58
bar.
43:59
So
44:00
yeah,
44:00
we'd
44:01
love
44:01
to
44:01
have
44:01
you
44:01
come.
44:02
It's
44:02
like
44:02
a
44:02
grand,
44:03
I
44:03
think,
44:03
for
44:03
A
44:03
person.
44:05
Thousand
44:05
dollars
44:05
a
44:05
person
44:06
if
44:06
you're
44:06
willing
44:07
to
44:07
share
44:07
a
44:07
room,
44:07
and
44:08
maybe
44:08
1,500
44:09
if
44:09
you're
44:10
single
44:11
families
44:11
or
44:12
two
44:12
grand
44:12
or
44:12
something
44:13
like
44:13
that.
44:13
But
44:14
given
44:14
the
44:15
kind
44:15
of
44:15
prices
44:16
in
44:16
that
44:16
part
44:16
of
44:16
the
44:17
world,
44:17
it's
44:17
very
44:17
reasonable.
44:18
And
44:19
more
44:19
importantly,
44:20
you
44:20
get
44:20
to
44:20
hang
44:20
out
44:21
with
44:21
fantastic
44:22
people
44:22
for
44:22
a
44:22
week.
44:23
Yeah,
44:23
yeah.
44:24
I'm
44:24
planning
44:24
attending
44:25
this
44:25
year.
44:26
It's
44:26
gonna
44:26
be
44:26
really
44:27
cool.
44:27
It
44:28
also,
44:28
I
44:28
think
44:29
the
44:29
price,
44:29
if
44:29
I
44:29
remember
44:30
right,
44:30
it
44:30
includes
44:30
like
44:31
your
44:31
stay
44:32
and
44:32
some
44:32
food
44:32
and
44:33
drink,
44:33
right?
44:33
Yes.
44:34
Right.
44:34
Includes
44:35
your
44:35
accommodations
44:36
and
44:36
probably
44:36
about
44:36
two
44:37
thirds
44:37
of
44:37
your
44:37
meals.
44:38
Yeah,
44:39
yeah.
44:39
And
44:39
there's
44:40
like
44:40
horseback
44:41
riding
44:41
going
44:41
on
44:41
apparently.
44:42
We're
44:42
gonna
44:42
like
44:43
Yellowstone.
44:43
We're
44:44
gonna.
44:44
We're
44:44
gonna
44:44
show
44:44
up
44:45
at
44:45
some
44:45
point.
44:45
I'm
44:45
like,
44:45
this.
44:46
This
44:46
looks
44:46
pretty
44:46
rad.
44:47
This
44:47
looks
44:47
pretty
44:47
cool.
44:48
Yeah.
44:48
Yeah.
44:49
The
44:49
resort
44:50
is
44:50
famous
44:50
in
44:50
the
44:51
summer
44:51
for
44:51
their
44:51
downhill
44:52
mountain
44:52
biking
44:53
because
44:53
they
44:53
take
44:54
the
44:54
ski
44:54
runs
44:55
and
44:55
they
44:55
put
44:55
this
44:55
great
44:56
mountain
44:56
bike
44:56
trek.
44:57
But
44:57
people
44:57
like
44:58
me,
44:58
we
44:58
go
44:59
on
44:59
hikes,
44:59
and
45:00
that'll
45:00
be
45:01
me.
45:02
My
45:03
leg
45:03
doesn't
45:03
permit
45:04
biking
45:04
yet,
45:04
but
45:04
hiking.
45:05
Hiking
45:05
I
45:05
can
45:05
do.
45:06
Yeah.
45:06
So
45:07
I'm
45:07
excited
45:08
for
45:08
that.
45:08
And,
45:08
you
45:08
know,
45:09
I
45:09
think
45:09
we've
45:10
shown
45:10
a
45:10
little
45:10
bit.
45:11
Some
45:11
of
45:11
us
45:11
may
45:11
just
45:12
differ
45:12
a
45:12
little
45:12
bit
45:12
on
45:13
ontology
45:13
or,
45:14
like,
45:14
how
45:15
we
45:15
think
45:15
of,
45:15
like,
45:15
God's
45:16
relation
45:16
to
45:16
time
45:16
or
45:17
the
45:17
future
45:17
or
45:18
process
45:19
thought.
45:19
But
45:20
all
45:20
of
45:20
us
45:20
kind
45:20
of
45:20
agree
45:21
on
45:21
this
45:21
open
45:21
and
45:21
relational
45:22
aspect.
45:22
So
45:22
I'm
45:22
excited
45:23
to
45:23
have
45:24
this
45:24
ortcon
45:25
to
45:25
learn
45:26
a
45:26
little
45:26
bit
45:26
more
45:26
on
45:26
the
45:27
stuff
45:27
I'm
45:27
wrong
45:27
about,
45:27
because
45:28
I
45:28
know
45:28
I'm
45:28
wrong
45:28
about
45:28
plenty.
45:29
If
45:30
we
45:30
say
45:30
that's
45:30
our
45:31
fact
45:31
collection,
45:31
that's
45:31
what's
45:32
going
45:32
to
45:32
bring
45:32
people
45:32
together.
45:32
They're
45:32
going
45:33
to
45:33
go
45:33
there,
45:33
they're
45:33
going
45:33
to
45:33
learn
45:34
about
45:34
their
45:34
relationship
45:34
to
45:34
God,
45:35
and
45:35
that's
45:35
going
45:35
to
45:35
help
45:35
their
45:35
relationship
45:36
to
45:36
one
45:36
another.
45:37
If
45:37
we
45:38
do
45:38
that,
45:39
and
45:39
that's
45:40
our
45:40
practical
45:40
action
45:41
tomorrow,
45:41
what
45:42
do
45:42
you
45:42
think
45:42
will
45:42
change
45:42
for
45:43
those
45:43
who
45:43
attend
45:44
or.
45:44
Most
45:45
people
45:45
who
45:45
come
45:46
leave
45:46
thinking?
45:47
I
45:48
found
45:48
my
45:48
tribe.
45:49
A
45:50
lot
45:50
of
45:50
people
45:51
show
45:51
up,
45:52
and
45:52
some
45:52
of
45:52
them
45:52
are
45:53
newbies.
45:53
They
45:53
don't
45:53
really
45:53
know
45:54
open
45:54
and
45:54
relational
45:55
thought.
45:55
Others
45:56
are
45:56
experts,
45:57
but
45:58
just
45:58
the
45:59
kind
45:59
of
45:59
community
46:00
that
46:00
gels
46:01
there
46:01
makes
46:02
people
46:02
feel
46:02
like
46:03
this
46:03
is
46:03
a
46:03
family.
46:04
All
46:04
right.
46:04
Yeah.
46:05
Yeah.
46:05
I'm
46:05
excited
46:05
for
46:05
it.
46:06
So.
46:09
Hey,
46:09
guys,
46:09
I
46:09
just
46:09
wanted
46:10
to
46:10
take
46:10
a
46:10
quick
46:10
break
46:11
here.
46:11
We
46:12
skipped
46:12
the
46:12
God
46:12
moment
46:13
section
46:13
in
46:14
this
46:14
bonus
46:14
episode
46:15
just
46:15
due
46:15
to
46:15
time
46:16
constraint.
46:17
However,
46:17
for
46:18
the
46:18
audio,
46:18
I
46:18
wanted
46:18
to
46:19
add
46:19
something
46:19
because
46:19
after
46:20
the
46:20
episode,
46:20
we
46:20
all
46:20
talked
46:21
about
46:21
that
46:21
and
46:21
we
46:22
mentioned
46:22
that
46:22
this
46:22
episode
46:22
itself
46:23
was
46:23
a
46:23
God
46:24
moment
46:24
for
46:24
us.
46:25
So
46:26
throughout
46:26
this
46:26
episode,
46:27
we're
46:27
just
46:27
talking
46:27
about
46:27
the
46:27
nature
46:27
of
46:28
God,
46:28
what
46:28
it
46:28
means
46:28
that
46:28
God
46:28
is
46:29
loving,
46:29
and
46:29
what
46:29
is
46:29
our
46:29
relationship
46:30
to
46:30
God.
46:30
And
46:31
sometimes
46:31
just
46:31
meditating,
46:32
all
46:32
those
46:32
things
46:32
on
46:33
itself.
46:33
You
46:33
don't
46:33
need,
46:33
like
46:33
a
46:33
big
46:34
moment
46:34
of
46:34
something
46:34
that
46:35
happened
46:35
to
46:35
you,
46:35
but
46:35
just
46:35
to
46:36
meditate
46:36
on
46:36
these
46:36
things,
46:37
to
46:37
discuss
46:37
them
46:38
with
46:38
other
46:38
people,
46:38
to
46:38
think
46:39
about
46:39
God's
46:39
love.
46:40
Can
46:40
itself
46:40
be
46:41
a
46:41
God
46:41
moment?
46:41
I
46:41
thought
46:41
it
46:41
was
46:41
just
46:42
really
46:42
cool.
46:42
We
46:42
all
46:42
kind
46:42
of
46:42
mentioned
46:43
that.
46:43
So
46:44
I
46:44
wanted
46:44
to
46:44
add
46:44
that
46:45
in
46:45
here
46:46
and
46:46
give
46:46
you
46:46
guys
46:46
a
46:46
chance,
46:47
have
46:47
your
46:47
own
46:47
God
46:47
moment
46:47
after
46:48
the
46:48
episode,
46:48
just
46:48
take
46:48
some
46:48
time
46:49
to
46:49
meditate
46:49
on
46:49
these
46:50
things.
46:50
What
46:50
is
46:50
God's
46:51
relationship
46:51
to
46:51
each
46:51
of
46:51
us,
46:52
to
46:52
all
46:52
creation,
46:53
the
46:53
quirks,
46:54
everything?
46:55
And
46:56
what
46:56
does
46:56
that
46:56
relationship
46:57
he
46:57
has
46:57
mean
46:57
to
46:57
you?
46:58
Especially
46:58
on
46:58
this
46:58
Good
46:59
Friday
46:59
as
46:59
we
46:59
meditate
47:00
on
47:00
what
47:00
it
47:01
mean
47:01
that
47:01
God
47:01
died.
47:02
Also,
47:03
after
47:03
the
47:04
show,
47:04
we
47:04
end
47:04
up
47:04
doing
47:04
a
47:04
Patreon
47:05
segment,
47:05
just
47:05
me
47:06
and
47:06
the
47:06
other
47:06
Josh
47:07
talking.
47:07
We
47:07
went
47:08
through
47:08
that
47:08
rant
47:09
he
47:09
wanted
47:09
to
47:09
do
47:09
about
47:09
Good
47:10
Friday,
47:10
and
47:11
we
47:11
discussed
47:11
some
47:11
other
47:11
stuff
47:11
that
47:11
we
47:12
think
47:12
are
47:12
fundamental
47:13
theological
47:14
truths
47:14
that
47:14
we
47:14
find
47:15
incredibly
47:15
important
47:15
for
47:16
all
47:16
Christians.
47:16
So
47:17
please
47:17
check
47:17
that
47:17
out
47:18
over
47:18
on
47:18
Patreon.
47:18
We
47:18
actually
47:19
listed
47:19
it
47:19
as
47:19
free
47:20
on
47:20
Patreon,
47:20
so
47:20
if
47:20
you
47:20
go
47:21
to
47:21
Patreon,
47:21
you
47:21
don't
47:21
need
47:21
to
47:21
pay
47:22
anything
47:22
to
47:22
check
47:22
that
47:22
out.
47:23
You
47:23
can
47:23
just
47:23
listen
47:24
to
47:24
it
47:24
as
47:24
it
47:24
is.
47:26
I
47:26
think
47:26
it's
47:26
worth
47:27
your
47:27
time,
47:27
and
47:27
I
47:27
would
47:28
really
47:28
appreciate
47:28
you
47:28
guys
47:29
just
47:29
hearing
47:30
what
47:30
Josh
47:30
had
47:30
to
47:31
say.
47:31
And
47:31
I
47:32
don't
47:32
know,
47:32
I
47:32
love
47:32
these
47:33
guys.
47:33
I
47:33
appreciate
47:33
them
47:34
and
47:34
I
47:34
appreciate
47:34
all
47:34
of
47:35
you
47:35
for
47:35
being
47:36
part
47:36
of
47:36
this
47:36
God
47:37
moment.
47:41
If
47:42
you
47:42
like
47:42
the
47:42
show,
47:43
please
47:43
consider
47:43
sharing
47:43
with
47:44
a
47:44
friend.
47:44
Share
47:44
with
47:44
an
47:44
enemy.
47:45
Share
47:45
with
47:45
your
47:45
cousins.
47:46
If
47:46
you
47:46
don't
47:46
have
47:46
cousins,
47:47
share
47:47
it
47:47
with
47:47
one
47:47
of
47:47
mine.
47:48
They're
47:48
tired
47:49
of
47:49
listening
47:49
to
47:50
me
47:50
say
47:50
it.
47:51
So,
47:53
you
47:53
know,
47:53
buy
47:54
the
47:54
merch,
47:54
support
47:54
the
47:55
show.
47:55
It
47:55
means
47:55
a
47:55
lot.
47:56
And
47:56
it's
47:56
comfy.
47:56
And
47:57
you're
47:57
gonna
47:57
need
47:57
something
47:57
to
47:58
wear
47:58
hiking
47:59
down
47:59
that
47:59
mountain.
47:59
Yeah,
48:00
get
48:01
some
48:01
comfy
48:02
whole
48:02
church
48:02
merch
48:04
for
48:04
our
48:04
hikes
48:04
and
48:05
hang
48:05
out
48:05
with
48:05
us
48:05
there.
48:06
It'll
48:06
be
48:06
a
48:06
fun
48:06
time.
48:09
I
48:09
don't
48:09
think
48:09
any
48:09
other
48:09
podcast
48:10
in
48:10
the
48:10
network
48:10
will.
48:11
Will
48:11
be
48:11
there,
48:12
but
48:12
other
48:13
shows
48:13
I'm
48:13
on.
48:13
If
48:14
you
48:14
want
48:14
to
48:14
listen
48:14
to
48:14
dummy
48:14
for
48:14
theology
48:15
and
48:15
then
48:15
come
48:16
tell
48:16
me
48:16
why
48:16
I'm
48:16
a
48:17
dummy
48:17
at
48:17
work
48:17
on.
48:18
You
48:18
could
48:18
do
48:18
that.
48:19
Other
48:19
things
48:20
maybe
48:20
to
48:20
check
48:20
out.
48:20
Let
48:21
nothing
48:21
move
48:21
you,
48:21
Christian
48:21
Ashley.
48:22
If
48:22
you
48:22
want
48:22
to
48:22
hear
48:22
someone
48:22
who's
48:23
very
48:23
different
48:23
from
48:23
most
48:24
of
48:24
us
48:24
in
48:24
their
48:24
theology,
48:25
he's
48:25
also
48:25
on
48:25
the
48:25
network
48:25
and
48:26
we
48:26
love
48:26
Christian
48:27
Also,
48:27
Kung
48:28
Fu
48:28
Pete's
48:28
party.
48:28
Brandon
48:29
Knight.
48:29
If
48:29
you
48:29
just
48:29
want
48:29
some
48:30
fun
48:30
kung
48:31
fu
48:31
and
48:31
pizza.
48:32
Lots
48:32
more
48:32
fun
48:32
than
48:32
that.
48:33
Yeah.
48:34
And
48:35
speaking
48:35
of
48:35
Brandon
48:36
Knight,
48:36
I'm
48:36
pretty
48:36
sure
48:36
he's
48:37
going
48:37
to
48:37
be
48:37
on
48:37
next
48:38
whole
48:38
church.
48:39
The
48:40
release
48:40
schedule,
48:41
if
48:41
I'm
48:41
right,
48:42
means
48:42
next
48:42
week
48:43
we're
48:43
going
48:43
to
48:43
be
48:43
talking
48:43
with
48:43
Brandon
48:43
Knight
48:44
about
48:44
his
48:44
job
48:44
as
48:44
a
48:44
ninja
48:45
coach.
48:45
Oh,
48:46
no,
48:46
that's
48:46
like
48:46
two
48:46
weeks
48:46
from
48:46
now.
48:47
Sweet.
48:48
Then
48:48
next.
48:49
You
48:49
know,
48:50
that's
48:50
great.
48:51
Josh
48:51
Patterson
48:52
next.
48:52
It
48:52
just
48:52
feels
48:53
weird
48:53
to
48:53
say
48:53
that
48:53
with
48:53
him
48:54
right
48:54
here
48:55
and
48:55
us
48:55
having
48:55
done
48:56
the
48:56
right
48:56
recording
48:56
in
48:56
the
48:57
past,
48:57
I'm
48:57
taking
48:58
over.
48:59
I'm
48:59
being
48:59
coercive
49:00
and
49:00
taking
49:00
over
49:00
the
49:01
whole
49:01
Truth
49:01
Network.
49:02
Yeah.
49:02
So
49:02
coming
49:02
up,
49:03
we've
49:03
got
49:03
Josh
49:03
Patterson,
49:04
then
49:04
Brandon
49:04
Knight.
49:05
And
49:05
then
49:05
we're
49:06
gonna
49:06
do
49:06
an
49:06
encore
49:07
episode
49:07
for
49:08
the
49:08
Job
49:08
Fair
49:08
series
49:09
on
49:09
comic
49:10
book
49:10
writing.
49:10
And
49:11
then
49:11
we're
49:11
gonna
49:11
have
49:11
a
49:11
round
49:11
table
49:12
of
49:13
pastors
49:13
and
49:13
professors
49:14
to
49:14
reflect
49:14
on
49:15
the
49:15
series.
49:15
And
49:16
at
49:16
the
49:16
end
49:16
of
49:16
season
49:17
one.
49:17
Francis
49:18
Chan,
49:18
also,
49:19
the
49:19
encore
49:19
has
49:19
been
49:20
changed.
49:20
It's
49:20
now
49:20
about
49:21
science
49:21
with
49:22
Andy
49:22
Walsh.
49:23
He's
49:23
a.
49:24
The
49:24
chief
49:24
science
49:24
officer
49:25
somewhere.
49:25
But
49:25
that's
49:26
a
49:26
cool
49:26
title.
49:27
Very
49:27
Star
49:27
Trek.
49:28
And
49:28
he's
49:28
a
49:29
great
49:29
guy.
49:29
Yeah.
49:30
Another
49:30
host,
49:30
Systematic
49:31
Ecology.
49:31
So
49:31
check
49:31
out
49:32
that
49:32
show.
49:33
And
49:33
then,
49:34
yeah,
49:34
bug
49:34
Francis
49:34
Chan
49:35
for
49:35
us
49:35
because
49:35
we
49:36
won't.