Latest / Salish Wolf / #56 Stefan Tim on Project Quiver

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#56 Stefan Tim on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

• 0:06
  Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
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  the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
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  world's finest traditional bow carvers.
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  I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
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  Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
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  book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
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  unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
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  the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
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  photograph his woodcraft in detail and share his story here
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  on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver the
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  Art of Life. Through bow craft and this
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  journey, our living story is Project Quiver.
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  How are you doing man? Thanks for joining.
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  Yeah. Well, thanks for having me.
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  Yeah, it's it's morning over there, I guess.
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  It is, Yep. So good morning, yeah.
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  It's a good morning, I was doing some working on Ash Bow a little
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  bit ago and took a break to come and chat with you, so all is
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  good. OK, OK, great.
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  Yeah, it's afternoon over here, so I had a full day at the shop
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  and, well, this is the end of the day for me.
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  Yeah, well, good to speak to you.
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  You too, it's great to meet you. Are you carving all day?
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  Is that your main profession? Well, I'm, I'm going towards
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  that, Yeah, at the moment I also teach history class at the local
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  high school over here. OK.
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  And that's something I really enjoy, enjoy doing.
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  And so I've been working on bows for many years.
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  And as you can hear, I'm I'm not an American.
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  I'm a Dutch guy living in Europe, making all kinds of
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  bows, teaching history to young students.
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  And I do that part time as well. So yeah, many.
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  Things Do you teach your students about bows at all the
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  history with them? Of course I take my my projects
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  along with them. You know, if, if we're talking
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  about the, the Middle Ages, I take AU or bow with me, or if
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  we're talking about prehistoric ages, I'd take some arrowheads
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  with me that I, I got from the US actually.
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  So that makes it very, yeah. I don't know how to how you call
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  it in English, but you can feel the history in, you know, they
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  can have something they can touch, feel and see for
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  themselves how, how, how that object was, you know.
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  So that's what I really enjoy. That makes it far more engaging.
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  Yeah, I think so, Yeah, Yeah. And what do your?
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  Students generally think about the bows.
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  Well, I think some of some, some students are impressed or
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  fascinated how it works. And there are always some
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  students who, you know, they, they're just waiting for the
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  next class. So that's just life.
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  You know, it's, it's no problem, but as long as there are a few
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  interested and just take 10 minutes of their time to to
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  teach them something about it. And you know, it always sticks
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  with somebody. So years later, I would walk
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  through the city, my hometown, and meet some old students, say,
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  Hey, Mr. Tim, or hey, how are you doing?
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  And you know, I remember that one time you brought this and
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  this. So that's, that's what I I
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  really like about, you know, about that.
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  It's the same for everybody. I guess.
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  You all all remember 1 teacher who made a little joke or an
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  impact on you or brought something special or it doesn't
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  have to be big or just something that reminds you of that time.
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  And yeah, that's what I like, yeah.
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  What is your hometown where you're in?
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  Arnhem. Arnhem, Arnhem.
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  Yeah, yeah, so famous. Sorry.
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  Go ahead. Yeah, it's a famous city, mainly
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  because the the Second World War, there's a battle of RNM
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  Operation Market Garden might some people might have heard
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  that. And yeah, that's one, one part
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  of that, yeah. How big is the city?
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  Oh, not that big. I think about a hundred 100,000
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  people or something. I'm I'm not sure, but something
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  like that. Where Where are you located?
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  Right now I'm on Vancouver Island on on the West Coast of
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  Canada. OK.
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  So yeah, I have, we have a farm here and we've moved to Costa
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  Rica. Well, we spend most of our time
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  in Costa Rica, but prior to that we lived here full time.
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  But I have three of our bow years that we're meeting with
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  starting the end of this week or this coming week are all based
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  in this area. So.
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  Yeah, yeah. I thought so about some specific
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  U's U bows over there. Yeah, Yeah.
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  Actually I think with all three of them, I think I'll be carving
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  Pacific U OK, great. Yeah, so.
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  Yeah, I heard that there's plenty of U around that that
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  area, right? There is a lot, yeah.
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  It's, well, I don't see it quite that much right in my general
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  area, but you definitely can find it.
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  So it's, it's a nice place for that.
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  Most of the first, I don't know. Probably the first few dozen
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  bows I carved were out of you, and then I started to branch out
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  and try different types of woods.
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  Yeah, OK. Yeah, yeah, because you started
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  making bows as well or? Yeah, I've been doing it for
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  very recreationally for probably about 7-8 years.
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  I'm not exactly sure how long, maybe six years.
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  I don't know. Jamie MacDonald of Ravenbeak
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  Bows was my first teacher, so I'll be going to see him again
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  and at the end of the month to carve an English Longbow with
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  him. So those were the first bows
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  that I I carved during English long bows with Jamie.
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  Yeah, OK. Yeah.
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  Cool. Yeah, he makes great bows.
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  Yeah. Yeah, lots of you.
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  Yeah. How long have you been in
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  Arnhem? I think.
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  Well, some passes between towns, but mostly all my life.
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  Yeah, I like the town. It's located near a National
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  Park, so lots of woods. Yeah, like 5 minutes from my
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  home. I can walk into the woods and
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  not meet anybody for a few hours.
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  So that's a nice thing to have, you know, walk around in nature.
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  And it's a small town, but it has everything you need.
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  Yeah. Beautiful.
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  Well, it's our first European stop.
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  We're excited. My daughter's never been to
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  Europe, so that's all. OK.
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  This will be her first experience.
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  Yeah, OK, cool. So.
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  I, I think it's nice that we're starting in R&M.
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  It's a bit smaller, so it won't probably won't be quite as
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  intimidating as some of the cities we'll be traveling
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  through. Yeah, we just done a 2 month
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  tour around Europe with a motorhome just in all, all, all
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  European cities or mostly in Eastern Europe.
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  That was yeah, lots of fun. Yeah, great.
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  Great to do. Yeah.
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  What were some of your favorite places?
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  Well, Budapest and Prague were beautiful, beautiful cities.
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  And Dubrovnik in Croatia also really, really well, inspired me
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  or, or struck me. Yeah, it's a beautiful medieval
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  town, like a Phoenician castle. And as a history teacher, I
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  mean, I have to, of course, castles all the time, you know,
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  so a vacation is not complete without a few castles on the on
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  the way. So I have to.
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  Yeah, yeah. Well, after, right after we
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  leave you, we're going to take a train to Prague.
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  So we get to spend a few days in Prague.
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  Yeah. Cool.
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  Yeah. And then on the way, we're going
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  to stop in Munich because there's a a surfing wave pool
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  there. So I need to I need to get it in
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  the water for a few hours before we carry on with our journey.
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  All right, OK. Yeah, I think I picked that up.
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  You you also surf in Costa Rica, right?
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  Surf a lot, Yeah. OK, so on a little holiday from
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  that right now, but it'll be good to.
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  I've never surfed in a wave pool and Munich has a really
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  beautiful 1 so. OK, that's like an automatic
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  automatic wave system. Yeah, yeah, just a a beautiful
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  wave that happens like every periodically, every few seconds.
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  And there's a number of people who share the pool at the same
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  time. So everyone gets their their
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  waves. I think you got like 15 to 20
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  waves in an hour, which is not usual in the ocean to get quite
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  that many waves, especially consistent, perfectly formed
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  waves. So it'll be fun.
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  Yeah. And it breaks up our journey
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  because I think it's a pretty long trip from your place to
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  Prague by train. I think it's like 9 or 10 hours.
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  Could be. Yeah.
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  I, I don't know. We, we did it in a couple of
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  days. So a couple of weeks actually,
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  yeah. Yeah.
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  So we'll stop in Munich to break that up.
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  And but yeah, that's you have kids, right?
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  I have one son. Yeah, one of us.
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  OK. He's four years old at the
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  moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  He's going to school in a couple of months, A couple of weeks,
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  actually, Yeah. Just starting right his first
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  time. Yeah.
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  Wow. Yeah, it's exciting for parents
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  and for him, you know? Yeah, yeah, one of my favorite
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  photos of yours is, I think it's on your Instagram, but I think
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  you're you're walking hand in hand with your son and you have
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  a bow in your hand. Yeah, I mean.
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  That's beautiful. Yeah, he, he picked up the bow
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  about half a year ago or something.
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  And you know, I shoot at the bike in the backyard and run to
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  workshop. And so he sees me do it all the
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  time. And then I made him a small
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  little bow and arrows, of course.
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  And he just picked it up, set up a target and began shooting.
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  And I was like, what? How, how, how is it possible?
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  And I said to my wife, you know, you teach him.
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  I mean, I'm not going to teach my son actually, because maybe
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  I'm too, I, I want to push things, you know, so you do it.
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  And she didn't tell him a whole lot.
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  She just taught him the basics. And he just started shooting.
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  And it amazes me because he, he never shot before.
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  And yes, suddenly those arrows were flying.
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  And so I made one bow for a kid that lives next door.
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  He's twice his age. He's about 8, I think.
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  And sure enough, Boris said, my son, you know, I know, you know,
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  you have to click the arrow around the on the string and
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  pull with these fingers and pull it.
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  And I was like, man, how? It's amazing, you know, just by
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  observing, you can learn a lot, obviously.
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  So it's really cool to see with your own own kit just what kind
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  of impact the things you do. And just by observing, he's
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  learning, you know, that's great to see.
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  That's incredible. So your wife does archery too?
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  Not, not that much, no. We did some competitions or just
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  some 3D shoots just for fun at the at the island around here.
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  The Netherlands has some beautiful islands around the
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  coast and every year there's a big 3D shoot over there and it's
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  a beautiful place to go to go visit.
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  So on holiday, why not shoot some arrows?
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  Yeah, So did your love of history get you into archery and
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  bow making, or was it the other way around?
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  I think it was the love for historical movies because I
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  watched a lot of new movies like Lord of Rings or Robin Hood.
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  Of course, King Arthur, all those historical dramas like
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  Gladiator as well. I mean, I just, I just could put
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  those movies on repeat every holiday in the summer.
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  I would live in a cool room at my parents' house and I'd have a
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  big screen DVD surround sound system and just play that movie
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  over and again. And every time just hit on pause
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  every time a bow came into the frame and figure out how did
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  they do it or how, what was the shape?
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  And, and then in the history class, I would draw those shapes
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  in, in, in the workbooks, you know, the when the teacher was
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  preaching about or yapping about stuff, I would just draw bows.
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  And so I think that the two combined a bit.
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  And then I just started making bows when I was what, 12 years
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  old out of sticks from oh wow. In the in the woods, you know,
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  cutting yew branches. And because we have yew yew
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  trees over here as well, but not the same quality as the the ones
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  you get in Vancouver or in in Canada.
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  Yeah, but that's the one it started.
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  And yeah. And then later on cutting,
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  cutting bigger and bigger trees. And, and then I thought, well,
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  it's, it's just not, not that convenient anymore for me to
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  could be cutting trees around my neighborhood because everybody's
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  going to know who cut that tree down.
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  You know, that that guy who was a woodworker over here.
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  So I thought, why not turn things around and make other
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  types of bows as well? And that's when I got into
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  bamboo and laminating bows because you, as you know, you
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  can make bows out of, you know, single pieces of, of woods but
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  also laminate them together. And that's when I started
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  laminating bows with hardwoods and bamboo.
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  Yeah. And what about the Japanese
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  influence? Where did that come from?
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  Yeah, So the Japanese bow, of course, the shape is very
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  different from what most people think a bow should look like
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  because it's asymmetrical shape. It's 2 / 2 meters long.
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  I don't know how many foot that is, but it's a, it's a very long
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  like. 6 feet, I think some of them are like 7 and 8 feet long,
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  yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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  And so the, The thing is that a lot of people think those bows
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  might be impractical to shoot, especially in hunting or in
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  warfare, but they're actually very powerful and fast.
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  And the way they are created is well, to, to me is looking at
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  the material and the shape and combining those together.
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  It's about the harmonics of the materials because it's mainly
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  made out of bamboo. And as you know, bamboo has
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  nodes and nodes are weak spots, but also the hardest spot on
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  the, the, the stem, the, the, the comb.
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  So there's a problem over there with the with the material, you
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  cannot put 2 nodes at the same spot because you have a very
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  stiff spot in the bow. So you have to alternate stagger
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  the nodes. And it's also, well, they don't
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  talk about it as much in, in, in the Japanese archery world.
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  But if you look at the the way the the tree grows or the the
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  grass, I would, I should say the same way the column grows, the
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  same way the bow is constructed. So what I mean by that is the
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  bottom of the stem, the column is also the bottom of the bow
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  and the top is also the top of the the bow.
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  And it's not only something they do a lot in bow making, but also
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  in furniture making or even with the making a house or wooden,
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  wooden frame, they would use the bottom stem for the bottom of
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  the home and the top ranch is for the top.
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  And now I'm going to get real into detail.
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  But please, if if you go higher up, the calm, the higher up you
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  go in the bamboo, the further apart the notes are.
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  So the material is more flexible and a little bit not not weaker,
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  but more flexible, easier to bend.
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  And so if you have a bamboo lamination that is over 2 meters
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  long or 7 foot, I think here you.
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  Yeah, I think 6 foot six, 6 1/2 feet would be two meters.
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  Then naturally the bottom of the column of the of the strip would
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  be stiffer than the top because the nodes are closer together at
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  the bottom than they are at the top.
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  Hope that makes sense. I can.
• 17:33
  Absolutely. Yeah.
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  So that's how you, that's how you tell when you're not
• 17:37
  harvesting the bamboo, what the top and the bottom is with the
• 17:40
  spacing. When you're harvesting or.
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  If you if you don't actually harvest the bamboo, if you're
• 17:46
  like buying the bamboo staves, you can tell the top and the
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  bottom based on the spacing. Yeah, yeah, sure.
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  Yeah. OK.
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  I have a piece over here if I don't know if you can see it,
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  but yeah, this is, this is the node.
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  There's a little Ridge, little Ridge over there and the Ridge
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  always faces up. And so you can see in this piece
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  maybe that the spacings are not as far apart over here, but
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  they're much wider in the top. So this is, this bends a lot
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  easier than the top. So that's also part of the way
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  the Yumi is glued up and the why the Yumi is asymmetrical.
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  And the yumi is the name of the Japanese bow.
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  What does Yumi mean? A bow.
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  Bow OK. Yeah.
• 18:35
  Fair enough. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:38
  Yeah. And is that the primary style of
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  bow in Japan, or are there other bows as well?
• 18:45
  Hardly any other hardly. It's.
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  I'm not really an expert on keto or Japanese archery.
• 18:54
  I know something about it, but I would not call myself an expert.
• 18:58
  But if you look at the materials used in those, in those bows,
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  they all come from mainland or main, Yeah, mainland China or
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  Japan as well, of course. And so it's unique to that
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  culture or that area. And so it's, it's like a natural
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  occurrence. You know, the you use the
• 19:20
  materials you have on hand to make the bow you you want to
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  make. So you have to look at the
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  material, how it grows and where it's available or not.
• 19:28
  They wouldn't make Osage bows in Japan because simply because
• 19:32
  it's not available 500 years ago, yeah.
• 19:37
  What about? I mean, there are plenty of
• 19:39
  other woods. What about like cherry?
• 19:41
  Cherry wood. Yeah, you could use, yeah, you
• 19:45
  could use cherry. Well, the main advantage because
• 19:49
  you laminate the the bamboo with the core, you can combine boots.
• 19:54
  And so we were talking about Osage or Pacific yield or highly
• 19:59
  regarded as one of the best bow woods to make a self bow out of.
• 20:04
  But the advantage of laminating bows is to me is you can use
• 20:09
  hardwoods that are on their own not suitable for bow making.
• 20:15
  But combined with bamboo, they make the best combination
• 20:19
  because you can use pieces like Wengue or other hardwoods that
• 20:23
  would be so brittle they would break.
• 20:26
  But the bamboo holds it all together.
• 20:27
  Yeah. And in Japan, traditionally,
• 20:31
  what were the main core woods that were used?
• 20:35
  Yeah. So they would eliminate cores.
• 20:38
  I can show you a little bit like like this one.
• 20:43
  Yeah. I don't know if you can.
• 20:45
  Yeah, I can check that out. But the science would be haze.
• 20:48
  That's a Japanese wax tree. That's a wood species.
• 20:52
  That's I cannot find it anywhere outside of Japan.
• 20:56
  I cannot go to a local wood supplier and say I want to have
• 20:59
  a Japanese waxy that hardly imported from Japan I think.
• 21:05
  But they will have hardwood sites, haze and then multiple
• 21:09
  strips of bamboo and sometimes oak or Maple in the in the
• 21:14
  center. OK, so am I looking at the belly
• 21:17
  of the bow that you were just showing?
• 21:20
  Both, yeah. So this is this is a core that I
• 21:24
  make. So these are two strips of wenge
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  wood at the side bamboo and then this one is masa ganduba, but it
• 21:34
  could be other hardwoods as well.
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  And so the way it works is you actually taper the core on one
• 21:42
  side and leave the other straight and then laminate 2
• 21:48
  pieces of bamboo like this like so.
• 21:50
  Wow. So what is the the physical
• 21:54
  advantage to having different linear layers running along the
• 21:58
  core? Like normally when I do
• 22:00
  laminates, it's each layer as you go deeper or shallower into
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  the bow as its own unique wood, there's not the linear layers
• 22:08
  that you have. Yeah.
• 22:09
  What is the advantage? For that style, yeah, you're
• 22:12
  talking about the the more common things you can see in the
• 22:15
  English Longbow construction. Yeah, so, well, if you have a
• 22:24
  very light bow, like a very thin core like this, you would have,
• 22:31
  I don't know, 2 mils of Purple Heart, 2 mils of Wenge or
• 22:35
  whatever. This.
• 22:38
  I was just working on a bow last night with Purple Heart and
• 22:40
  Wenge. Yeah.
• 22:41
  OK, Yeah. Well, common woods to use, yeah,
• 22:45
  yeah. So to me, the advantage is you
• 22:48
  can use a bamboo core, which is light, lightweight, but very
• 22:54
  resilient. So you have a core you can you
• 22:59
  can adjust for the properties you want.
• 23:02
  So for instance, if you want to have a heavy bow that really
• 23:08
  packs a punch, you shoot heavy arrows mainly for hunting or
• 23:12
  warfare. In the old days you would have a
• 23:15
  different construction in that core.
• 23:18
  You would have, well, I'm not not going to talk all the
• 23:22
  details, but a little bit different, how do you say it,
• 23:27
  different parts for different types of shooting.
• 23:32
  Different densities of wood and. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:35
  Or different variations with thicker bamboo or thin air or
• 23:41
  multiple layers or so. For instance, if you want to
• 23:44
  have a real soda bow that that's draws very smooth, but it's
• 23:49
  still very powerful, you would add maybe two or four more
• 23:56
  bamboo layers in there. Oh wow.
• 23:59
  And that's just because of the it's more subtle, but it still
• 24:04
  is very resilient. So it will still shoot that
• 24:07
  arrow very precise and, and, and, and fast.
• 24:11
  That's what you want, right? Sometimes.
• 24:14
  Sometimes not, yeah. Yeah.
• 24:15
  So that's the core we're looking at.
• 24:17
  Is there also a belly layer? Yeah.
• 24:23
  Where does that make up part of the belly as?
• 24:24
  Well, oh, here I have. So this one is ready to be glued
• 24:29
  up. Oh, that's right, you said the
• 24:30
  bamboo is the belly bamboo. Yeah, the bamboo is the belly
• 24:33
  and the back. Yeah, right.
• 24:34
  Yeah. So that's why you have to
• 24:36
  stagger the notes because if you don't, if you have a note on a
• 24:40
  note, then it's a very stiff spot in the bow.
• 24:44
  So that's why you stagger in. And I measure the distance
• 24:48
  between those and put the one in the middle.
• 24:52
  And so this is actually ready to be glued up.
• 24:56
  And this is how it works. So you have two bamboo facings,
• 25:01
  the core, and then you glue it up like so.
• 25:04
  And the way I glue it up is just like the Japanese bow makers do
• 25:08
  with rope and wedges. So you wrap the whole core with
• 25:13
  a rope, you go one time and go back again.
• 25:16
  So you make all these cross crossings over there and then
• 25:20
  you have a wedge like like this. It's just a simple waste product
• 25:26
  of the bamboo. I mean, why not?
• 25:28
  Why not recycle these things? And you place a wedge every time
• 25:31
  you you pass that X sort of and the and if you place a wedge
• 25:39
  over on this side, you would get a curve facing the other way.
• 25:43
  And if you want to have a recurve or a deflex, you can
• 25:47
  change the wedges on the side. I can see that right behind you,
• 25:50
  there's one you can see. How?
• 25:52
  Yeah. So this one I clued up today.
• 25:55
  Yeah. So this is how it works,
• 25:57
  essentially. Yeah.
• 25:59
  Fascinating. Wow.
• 26:00
  Yeah. OK, so how did you get into this
• 26:03
  art of yumi Bo carving? Yeah, so there's another Dutch
• 26:08
  guy, his name is Jab Kopodryar, and he actually lives in, what
• 26:16
  was it, Georgia in the US And he grows his own bamboo.
• 26:21
  And so there's thousands of bamboo species, but there are
• 26:24
  only a few that that work for work for bow making.
• 26:30
  So he actually grows the bamboo that is specifically for bow bow
• 26:33
  making. And he studied on their Shibata
• 26:37
  sensei in the in Japan. That's a Japanese bow maker.
• 26:42
  And well, he, he did some workshops, I think maybe 10 or
• 26:48
  12 years ago. And I thought, well, why not
• 26:52
  want to do a workshop with him? I was thinking about going to
• 26:56
  Japan or going to Yap. And I thought, well, my English
• 27:00
  is, is is OK, but my Japanese is non existent.
• 27:04
  So I might as well go to the US and practice with him.
• 27:09
  And so I did a workshop with him for a week along with two other
• 27:12
  guys. And well, there, there was a
• 27:16
  connection there and a friendship.
• 27:19
  And I said to him, well, can I come back, you know, and harvest
• 27:23
  bamboo with you? Because he has to move his van
• 27:27
  around, go to places where the bamboo grows and cut it and cure
• 27:30
  it and split it and all these things that take a lot of time.
• 27:34
  And so I said, well, I'll, I'll help you if you, if you have a
• 27:39
  job for me, I can work a few weeks for you.
• 27:42
  And just for, for cost and living.
• 27:44
  I think. I don't know how you how you say
• 27:48
  that thing those things in in English, but whatever.
• 27:51
  That works, yeah. So I did that for two or three
• 27:56
  consecutive years and I learned a lot in those those months of
• 28:01
  working with him. And yeah, yeah, it was a lot of
• 28:03
  fun. And that's.
• 28:05
  Amazing. What a what a mentorship
• 28:07
  opportunity. What what's his name?
• 28:08
  Yap. You said Yap.
• 28:10
  Yap. Yeah, if.
• 28:12
  You're in in Georgia. Go look him up.
• 28:15
  Well, I think it was Waylon Olive when I was in North
• 28:19
  Carolina. It was telling me about him.
• 28:22
  Yeah, yeah. He's a living legend.
• 28:24
  I think about among bow makers, Yeah.
• 28:27
  Well, I definitely want to look him up.
• 28:28
  Does he have a social media presence or a website?
• 28:30
  Yeah, yes, Facebook. Facebook.
• 28:33
  All right. He's we'll.
• 28:35
  Try to find him. Yeah, he's he's well, he's how,
• 28:41
  how do you say it? He's slowing down at the moment.
• 28:44
  So he's he's still making bows, still making yummies.
• 28:47
  He loves making yummies, but he's, he's been making them
• 28:52
  since the 80s or something. Hornbos, Yumi's, that sort of
• 28:56
  stuff. Yeah.
• 28:57
  So I thought, you know, he's, he's my guy.
• 29:01
  So when I go to him and, you know, it took off from there,
• 29:05
  you know, you need just just some someone to help you along,
• 29:10
  you know, and and then just growth is exponential, you know,
• 29:15
  just the workshop can, can do a lot.
• 29:17
  Yeah. Notice he also and do you also
• 29:21
  practice like the traditional art of Japanese archery?
• 29:25
  I have, yeah. In the past because I, I became
• 29:29
  fascinated by by these, these bows, how they were constructed.
• 29:34
  I thought, well, now I have to shoot it, of course.
• 29:37
  So there's a Dojo here in the Netherlands, a couple of dojos
• 29:41
  and I practiced keto for a couple of years.
• 29:45
  But in the end, the the keto world is a lot different than,
• 29:51
  well, Western archery sort of say.
• 29:54
  So to combine those styles, we're not that great for my
• 29:59
  results. So I do a lot of 3D archery with
• 30:04
  my own bows, not really with Umis, but with the different
• 30:08
  designs I have. And so at one time, you know, if
• 30:12
  you're very tired at the end of the day, you put the, the, the
• 30:15
  arrow on the wrong side of the bow or left side, all the steps.
• 30:19
  And I thought, you know, it's, it's hurting me more than it's
• 30:23
  bringing to me in, in artery. So I thought I'm going to choose
• 30:27
  what either one, not both. So I quit keto a couple of years
• 30:32
  ago, but I still, I still practice the Yumi a couple of
• 30:36
  times a year. Yeah.
• 30:38
  And is that the style that you you have to shoot with a Yumi or
• 30:42
  can you shoot the kind of Mediterranean style that you're
• 30:45
  more used to? Well, depends on who you ask,
• 30:52
  but if you ask me, if you, if you ask me, I think I think
• 30:56
  there's a, a benefit in the keto style, but it's, you know, the
• 31:01
  keto style SB is a lot different than what the Yumi was sort of
• 31:07
  supposed to be doing. You know, 100 or 5200 years ago,
• 31:11
  they would still be shooting arrows on the, on the
• 31:14
  battlefield. And you want heavy arrows that
• 31:17
  pack a punch and heavy bows. And there's a technique that
• 31:20
  that goes along with shooting those bows, same as the English
• 31:23
  war bow. There's a specific technique you
• 31:26
  have to practice. And I think that the Umius is a
• 31:32
  very powerful, powerful bow in its, in its own and the way you
• 31:37
  shoot it with the thumb, almost like a thumb ring only then with
• 31:40
  a, with a glove, you know, the release is, is very powerful.
• 31:44
  So it's kind of the same with the Mediterranean.
• 31:48
  If your release is weak, you know, the, the, the shot won't
• 31:51
  work for you and you will lose power and speed.
• 31:54
  It's a kind of the same thing. I I think in my opinion, you
• 31:57
  know the same thumb shooting technique you have with Asian
• 32:02
  style bows, Yeah. So so can can you walk me
• 32:05
  through your understanding of the traditional technique?
• 32:12
  You mean the the Asian style? The the Kyoto Style.
• 32:15
  Kyoto style. Yeah, OK.
• 32:17
  The draw is a lot longer, isn't it?
• 32:19
  You go way beyond your your mouth on the draw.
• 32:23
  Yeah. So anyway, I'll let I'll let you
• 32:25
  describe it. No.
• 32:27
  Pressure. Let me grab an arrow here
• 32:30
  because that, that'll make it a little bit easier.
• 32:33
  So this is like a keto style arrow.
• 32:35
  And in, in Western archery, you would you would use a
• 32:38
  Mediterranean grip, as you say. And there are benefits to that.
• 32:45
  And three fingers, yeah. Or under the arrow, whatever.
• 32:49
  In keto style, you would kind of like a thumb ring hook the
• 32:54
  string behind your thumb and there's a little little notch
• 32:59
  that goes in, in the glove, sorry to say.
• 33:03
  And then you, instead of pinching down your, your thumb,
• 33:07
  you just place your fingers over it and would become a natural
• 33:11
  hook. So it would be like like hanging
• 33:17
  when you're standing in a bus or in the, in the, in the subway.
• 33:19
  And you would hold your weight on, on one of those loops, you
• 33:23
  know, and hold yourself steady. You won't, you don't.
• 33:26
  You're not grabbing it, you're not forcefully trying to get it,
• 33:30
  but just hanging on there. It's the same thing with that
• 33:34
  technique and the way there are two schools, 2 styles and this
• 33:42
  is a little bit out of frame, but you would lift the ball up
• 33:49
  and eat the arrow above your head and then push pull at the
• 33:53
  same time and then. Push pull.
• 33:56
  Yeah, and pull it behind or that's a different school.
• 34:01
  It's more of a older technique, more associated with the heavier
• 34:06
  bows and the more the war style is go low and then push pull.
• 34:13
  So it's more like a English Longbow.
• 34:15
  I think I'm, I've never shot a English war bow over £100, but
• 34:21
  it's about the same, you know, you put your body in the shot
• 34:26
  and that's about the same. So a lot of modern keto
• 34:31
  practitioners, they, they shoot this style, they, they raise the
• 34:35
  bow up, they raise the, the arrow and kind of like dropping
• 34:40
  your, your, your arm, you would have a sort of an advantage with
• 34:46
  the, with the draw. And that's why you come
• 34:49
  naturally behind, behind your ear.
• 34:52
  Yeah. And if you look at the, the,
• 34:56
  the, the behind shot, you know, you have the, these Archers
• 35:00
  pulling past the air and they'll have glasses on or the air
• 35:04
  literally behind the string. And everybody's figuring out,
• 35:07
  figuring out, you know, how would they not, you know, shoot
• 35:11
  their ear off or their glasses off.
• 35:13
  But that's kind of the way the bow works.
• 35:16
  Sorry, is that is that the string is on one side of the bow
• 35:22
  on the right side and you would a little bit sort of twist the
• 35:26
  bow and release and the bow will turn around.
• 35:30
  So actually the string will not hit you but will turn around
• 35:37
  your your shot. Yeah.
• 35:39
  So that's part of the kind of how it works.
• 35:42
  If you mess up that technique, do you get smacked in the face
• 35:45
  by the string? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:51
  Sometimes it, it happened to me sometimes as well.
• 35:54
  Or people get afraid of, of letting go, you know, And yeah,
• 35:59
  it's in those moments that things go wrong.
• 36:01
  You know, if you have fear and doubt in your shot of, oh, I'm
• 36:05
  going to hit my face or I'm going to shoot right around my
• 36:10
  cheek, then yeah, sure enough, it happens.
• 36:12
  But. Wow.
• 36:13
  You learn. You learn pretty quickly not
• 36:15
  doing that. Yeah, what are what's a typical
• 36:18
  draw weight on these bows? Well, most of the UI bows are
• 36:27
  what I would call a little bit lightweight.
• 36:29
  So 15 kilos or 30 lbs, something like that. 30 lbs, maybe 20
• 36:37
  kilos, 40 lbs, something in those ranges.
• 36:40
  There are people who shoot more than than 45 lbs and more than
• 36:45
  20 kilos, but I don't know. I've never been to Japan, so I
• 36:50
  have, I have not seen it with my own eyes.
• 36:52
  But there are people shooting 100 lbs and 120 lbs, Yeah.
• 36:57
  Oh wow. So wow.
• 36:59
  Yeah, and it's so so it's not like a whimsy, just a cute of a
• 37:04
  shot. It's just, you know, it's a it
• 37:06
  was a weapon, so it was effective.
• 37:07
  Yeah. So.
• 37:08
  Yeah. And then the draw length must be
• 37:10
  significantly longer, like 32 inches.
• 37:15
  Well, around 37, 37 or yeah. So it's the the you have
• 37:22
  different lengths of bows for different lengths of draw.
• 37:29
  And so the most common is like a Nissan in the Western world or a
• 37:33
  Nami Sun that's a 90cm draw or or 100 centimeter draw.
• 37:38
  So in Japan they do all metric and no inches and no pounds.
• 37:44
  But that's how how they are measured, yeah.
• 37:47
  Yeah, 100 centimeters. That's like nearly 40 inches, 38
• 37:51
  or something. It's huge.
• 37:54
  Yeah. So the arrows are quite long.
• 37:57
  Yeah, they're as long as your draw.
• 37:59
  A lot of times the the arrow would just hit the your knuckle
• 38:04
  or a little bit extend a little bit over that because, you know,
• 38:08
  for safety reasons, a lot of people don't don't actually want
• 38:11
  the arrow to stop right at the end.
• 38:14
  You know, they want a little bit of safety.
• 38:17
  But there are ways, you know, in the well, I call it ancient days
• 38:22
  and not say ancient, but a couple hundreds of years ago,
• 38:25
  you know, they would you have manuscripts talking about, you
• 38:28
  know, release as when you hit the Arrowhead with your or the
• 38:34
  when you hit the Arrowhead with your hands, you know, So you
• 38:38
  know, you have the consistent draw when you feel the Arrowhead
• 38:42
  hitting your hand and then. Release.
• 38:44
  Yeah. And then the release, is that
• 38:48
  like letting go of your taking your fingers off your thumb?
• 38:52
  What is what's special? How do you do the?
• 38:54
  Release. Yeah.
• 38:55
  Yeah. No idea.
• 38:58
  No, I couldn't have explained it, you know.
• 39:01
  OK. I mean, I'm not really man, you
• 39:06
  would have to ask a keto teacher sensei even he would maybe say
• 39:12
  something that he's not maybe 100% sure about because you
• 39:19
  know, you know the guy, Joe Turner, I don't know if you've
• 39:22
  heard about him, but he's OK. You should look him up.
• 39:26
  He's a real interesting guy who who talks about like the release
• 39:31
  in the shots and how everybody struggles with target panic even
• 39:35
  if you never heard about it. I've heard of it recently but
• 39:39
  I've never experienced it. But yeah, well, I might not let
• 39:42
  people keep telling me about it. Yeah, I think, I think
• 39:46
  everybody, you know, the he, no, his theory is your brain works a
• 39:51
  certain way and that's for all of us.
• 39:53
  You know, it's the same. You have your subconscious mind
• 39:55
  trying to override your system. So I'm not going to tell
• 40:01
  everything because you have to. Take his course.
• 40:04
  You know that explains everything in detail.
• 40:06
  Oh, I have heard of it. But ah, OK, yeah.
• 40:10
  So the moment upon release, there's something in your brain
• 40:14
  that triggers, well, all all sorts of things, sort of say so.
• 40:22
  And he's talking about taking control in your shop and
• 40:25
  overriding your nervous system, sort of speaking and overriding
• 40:29
  your subconscious mind so you can make a proper release in
• 40:34
  your shop. And so you're asking me how to
• 40:37
  how do you release your, your arrow in keto?
• 40:42
  Honestly, you know, for me, that's where the magic happens.
• 40:45
  And Joel Turner would, would say, no, that's not where the
• 40:49
  magic happens. That would that is where you
• 40:51
  have to take control. But so to me, it's always when
• 40:57
  you release it, you go through certain steps in your head, you
• 41:01
  go in your well, you go through your shot, sort of say.
• 41:07
  And then you can, you can slowly let go and let go and let go and
• 41:12
  let go and let go. But there are so many steps
• 41:15
  before that I I couldn't have explained it.
• 41:18
  Well, I read Eugene Harrigold's book Zen in the Art of Archery,
• 41:22
  which is a fascinating book. Are you familiar with it?
• 41:25
  Yeah, I I've not read it, but I'm familiar with it.
• 41:27
  Yeah, a little. Bit yeah, and there's also
• 41:29
  another one, Zenbo Zanero, which is based on that one as well.
• 41:34
  Both really good reads, especially for someone who's
• 41:36
  into to Japanese archery. I recommend it.
• 41:39
  OK. But yeah, that's a large premise
• 41:43
  of the book is about that release and how much emphasis is
• 41:48
  put on that in the Japanese tradition.
• 41:50
  And it's almost like a, and Taoism, we would say, I think
• 41:53
  like Wuwei, which means like effortless action.
• 41:56
  There's like this effortless release where if you tell your
• 42:00
  mind you're going to release, you mess up.
• 42:03
  And so you almost have to release simultaneously to when
• 42:09
  your mind knows you're going to release.
• 42:10
  So it's it's it comes up almost as a surprise.
• 42:13
  Now, I may be absolutely butchering with I don't even
• 42:16
  know if that's in the book, but this is a what I've what I've
• 42:20
  kind of read in various places. So it's you have to trick your
• 42:23
  mind into not knowing that you're going to release so that.
• 42:27
  There. Isn't that target panic or
• 42:29
  anything? It's the release is effortless.
• 42:32
  Funny you say that because it's the same things that Joel Turner
• 42:35
  found out in his journey in archery and, and, and target
• 42:39
  panic and that sort of stuff. And when I, I shoot keto,
• 42:44
  that's, that's what I call mystery.
• 42:46
  I don't know when I'm releasing, you know, it just happens.
• 42:49
  And so I could not really explain it.
• 42:53
  Yeah, maybe that's not a good thing.
• 42:55
  I don't know. Or it.
• 42:56
  Might be a great. Thing, but yeah, but I don't
• 43:01
  know. I don't know, it's a different,
• 43:05
  different feeling than in Western archery, I think because
• 43:09
  you're so struggling to hit target or so focused on hitting
• 43:13
  the target. And basic rule in keto is good
• 43:17
  form will, well, the reward for a good form will be your point
• 43:23
  or hitting target. So that's the end result.
• 43:27
  And a western artery is kind of the way other way around.
• 43:30
  Maybe it's more about shooting the points in competitions and
• 43:35
  the way you do it should be consistent.
• 43:38
  But you know, as long as you shoot the point and that's
• 43:40
  different in keto, you know, it's a it's a result.
• 43:45
  Yeah. Yeah, what other you mentioned
• 43:49
  you carve other types of bows, What other styles or types of
• 43:51
  bows do you carve? Yeah, so, well, I mainly work
• 43:57
  with bamboo and bamboo bows, of course.
• 44:01
  So almost all my bows have some sort of bamboo in them and
• 44:07
  almost all of them have have this this type of core.
• 44:11
  So because it's I, I think very beneficial to the, to the power
• 44:17
  of the, of the bow because the, the core to me is the powerhouse
• 44:21
  of the, the whole thing. So other bow types I make are
• 44:28
  the Orion or Orion, as you might say, it's a combination of worn.
• 44:33
  I can, I can show you this. So this is a bow that is waiting
• 44:41
  for a customer or it's sold already.
• 44:44
  I mean, but the customer is coming.
• 44:46
  So this is a combination of the bamboo and this is fire hardened
• 44:51
  and and smoked. So treat it.
• 44:55
  And this is the the dark Wengue would you see in the same core
• 44:59
  and in it in the belly side is a horn.
• 45:02
  So it's a bit like a combination of the Japanese style and horn
• 45:08
  bows, and that's kind of what I put together in one book.
• 45:15
  Beautiful. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:16
  What type of horn? So this is hems book and Oryx
• 45:21
  or? Oryx, yeah.
• 45:23
  Yeah, yeah. You have different types of HEMS
• 45:27
  book. This is the more common type.
• 45:29
  I think you know, that you have the the baisa or something and I
• 45:33
  don't know the terms, but there's the endangered species,
• 45:37
  which this is, this is not, I assure you.
• 45:40
  And the other and the other species, that's way more common.
• 45:44
  And so the way it works is you have one horn, you can cut down
• 45:50
  in the middle, sand it and you can get it for one bow.
• 45:55
  So one horn usually makes 1 bow. Yeah, that's stunning.
• 46:00
  A little bit different than the Turkish style or Ottoman style
• 46:04
  if you will, but usually takes 2 horns for for one bow, yeah.
• 46:10
  And so I know like the Asiatic corn bows typically take a long
• 46:13
  time to make. One of the reasons is to allow
• 46:15
  the sinu and all the layers of glue to dry.
• 46:18
  Is this different because you're not using sinu?
• 46:22
  It is. Six months to make.
• 46:25
  It still makes six months to make because you know, I, I have
• 46:28
  many projects to work on. You know, if, if you, if you
• 46:31
  want, you can make this type of bow much faster.
• 46:35
  But I just right, I work on many, many projects.
• 46:42
  But the benefit because of of this design is, you know, you
• 46:45
  have to bamboo back. It's as you say, it's much
• 46:50
  quicker than waiting for the seen you to dry because six
• 46:54
  months is just for the outer layer, the the last layer.
• 46:57
  But before that you have to wait a couple of weeks for other
• 47:00
  layers as well because most of the the horn composite with with
• 47:06
  seen you have to well, they take a year at least to, to make and
• 47:11
  to dry. Yeah.
• 47:14
  So is that your own style? Did you kind of create that or
• 47:18
  is that based off of? Get it?
• 47:21
  The Orion is, is what I call my design.
• 47:26
  Yeah. So it's more a combination of
• 47:30
  different types of bows all put together.
• 47:34
  And it's very resemblance of the the five curve style Asian bows
• 47:41
  you have. They are made of bamboo, like
• 47:43
  the Humbo Han style bow you have on the market at the moment, and
• 47:48
  like those as well. And those are all bamboo
• 47:50
  composites. And there are a lot of bow
• 47:55
  makers who would use this method as well.
• 47:58
  I'm not the only one. But yeah.
• 48:02
  So the five curve with the with the bamboo and horn, this is
• 48:06
  something I, I was fascinated about.
• 48:08
  Yeah. How does that shoot?
• 48:10
  Might shoot really well. Yeah, fast.
• 48:13
  Yeah. So on average, this is most of
• 48:18
  my bows, they have a lot of pretension.
• 48:20
  So what I mean by that is, you know, they're all glued up in
• 48:24
  reflex, like Japanese yumi, like 30 or 40cm of reflex and they
• 48:30
  have to bend the other way around.
• 48:31
  So that's a lot of power already in the bow.
• 48:35
  And the the combination of horn with that bow, you have to be
• 48:41
  careful because the horn is heavy.
• 48:44
  So it's a lot of mass. You don't want a lot of mass in
• 48:46
  the bow, so you have to, you know, always seek the limit.
• 48:53
  On the average, they would shoot to 180 feet per second with 10
• 48:56
  gram per pound. And well, if you go lighter with
• 49:01
  arrows of obviously they would go faster, but they're pretty
• 49:04
  fast bows and they hold up very well.
• 49:07
  And so that's what I found. You know, I wanted a type of
• 49:12
  worm bow that would be a little bit more easier to maintain.
• 49:17
  So a customer or myself would be in the woods and just string it
• 49:21
  up and no worries. You can go straight to shooting
• 49:24
  instead of hornbows, in my opinion, are a little bit more
• 49:30
  subtle or you know, sensitive, I mean, to humidity or climate or
• 49:36
  unbalancing of the limbs. So you always have to work a
• 49:39
  little bit and that's not a big issue.
• 49:42
  But if you don't know how to do that and if the customer is 1000
• 49:46
  miles away, then it's a little bit more difficult to say, you
• 49:50
  know, how to adjust the horn bow than it is to say, OK, just
• 49:54
  string it and balance it and you're done.
• 49:57
  Yeah. Amazing.
• 49:59
  Those are so beautiful. You said you started making your
• 50:02
  own bows when you were 12. What was your inspiration?
• 50:07
  Yeah, those movies, you know, Robin Hood and yeah, I, I wanted
• 50:12
  to shoot those arrows and if even if they would shoot like 30
• 50:15
  yards, I, I would be amazed, you know, like how could this little
• 50:20
  stick with fair lasers shoot in the air?
• 50:23
  And how, how does that work? Just a simple stick in the in
• 50:27
  the string. And so that's what really, you
• 50:32
  know, it, it intrigued me how, how does that work?
• 50:35
  How can an arrow fly straight from just a stick and A and a
• 50:40
  string? And and when did you start to
• 50:42
  get really serious about making bows?
• 50:45
  When did you become a full year? Well, my company Bamboo Bows is,
• 50:53
  is around for a couple of years now.
• 50:54
  And I would say that is when I really, really started with
• 51:01
  with, with making bows professionally and, and selling
• 51:04
  them worldwide. Before that I did sell some
• 51:07
  bows, but there were mainly long bows or flat bows that I made in
• 51:11
  the, in the shed, you know, in the, and you know, there, there
• 51:17
  are, there are lots of fun projects over there, you know,
• 51:21
  in, in that period, a lot of different bow designs.
• 51:26
  But professionally I've been working for a couple of years
• 51:30
  now and I'm 34 now at the moment.
• 51:34
  So that's a pretty long time I've been doing this.
• 51:37
  And I, I think I'll, I'll do this until the end of the on end
• 51:41
  of my time. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 51:44
  Yeah. Why?
• 51:46
  What is it about it that is so special to you?
• 51:50
  Well, you know, it's first of all, it's so, so cool.
• 51:56
  You can make stuff. I mean, it doesn't mean it
• 51:59
  doesn't really matter what, you know, if you want to have a
• 52:02
  furniture, a chair or a table. I mean, making stuff is cool and
• 52:07
  it's sometimes got a bad Rep, bad, bad reputation, mainly over
• 52:13
  here and in the Netherlands, You know, you have to have be an
• 52:16
  accountant, a lawyer, a doctor or, you know, making stuff who's
• 52:20
  going to buy your stuff. And it's all you know.
• 52:25
  Everyone gets their stuff from IKEA and.
• 52:27
  Yeah, exactly. You're a big business to compete
• 52:30
  with. There's no market for that.
• 52:33
  I mean, yeah, who cares? I mean, even if the way you
• 52:36
  love. Yeah, even if there's no market
• 52:39
  for it, whatever. I mean, if you if you're not
• 52:41
  enjoying what you're doing, yeah, then there's something
• 52:44
  wrong. So I really enjoy making it.
• 52:47
  And like I say, I'm making the, the bows is what I love to do.
• 52:53
  And I'll make, I'll make bows for my, my kids in wooden boats
• 52:59
  so he can take out in the pond. And, you know, making stuff is
• 53:02
  cool. That's, that's the first reason.
• 53:04
  Yeah. And the other reason is there
• 53:10
  are so many things happening in your world in, in your personal
• 53:15
  world or in the outside world. I think everybody needs a sort
• 53:20
  of way to getting your own little bubble.
• 53:26
  And for some people that's yoga or meditation or playing an
• 53:29
  instrument, guitar, piano or whatever painting.
• 53:33
  And for me, that's, you know, picking up a wood scraper and
• 53:37
  scrape away on some piece of wood that will be later be
• 53:42
  functional as a as a full, full bow.
• 53:46
  And that's what I really love as well.
• 53:48
  You know, put your favorite podcast, put your favorite music
• 53:51
  playlist on and just go to work. And that's something a lot of
• 53:58
  teacher colleagues of mine as well.
• 53:59
  They say, you know, I'm so well jealous.
• 54:02
  It's not the right word. I'm so happy for you maybe that,
• 54:06
  you know, whatever, who cares? Who cares?
• 54:11
  But you know, to, to to have something in your life that
• 54:19
  really takes you to the core that that's really cool.
• 54:24
  And as I say, there can be many things.
• 54:27
  But to me, that's making bows. Yeah, making bows and arrows.
• 54:32
  I'm I'm finding it's a universal theme for billiards, like the
• 54:35
  therapeutic. Respect.
• 54:37
  Oh yeah. Yeah, every single person I've
• 54:39
  talked to, I think like does it out of pure love.
• 54:42
  And the meditative, therapeutic aspect is something that is
• 54:46
  invaluable to them. Yeah, myself included, Like
• 54:49
  everything you just described, putting on a favorite playlist
• 54:52
  or a podcast and just, you know, putting a draw knife or a
• 54:55
  scraper to A, to a piece of wood and know that you're creating
• 54:59
  this formidable weapon that's also a beautiful piece of art.
• 55:03
  Yeah, stepping into a role of your own.
• 55:05
  It's, and that's what I really love, you know, making your own
• 55:11
  instrument or your your own bow in this this regard and taking
• 55:16
  them out and make something fully functional and shoot them.
• 55:19
  And that's what I find is very special.
• 55:23
  And that's what I cherish about, about this.
• 55:26
  Yeah. Yeah, I, I would say that's one
• 55:29
  of the inspirations for this book that my daughter and I are
• 55:31
  doing and that bow making is so different than any other
• 55:36
  woodworking because I, I, I can't think of an exception.
• 55:40
  But if you're a furniture builder or a knife maker or a
• 55:44
  axe handler maker, all those pieces of wood are static.
• 55:48
  Like, you create something and it doesn't move, but a Bowyer
• 55:51
  has to create something out of wood that's going to be pushed
• 55:54
  to its absolute limit hundreds and thousands of times.
• 55:58
  That's exactly the same thing that fascinated me but also
• 56:01
  frustrates sometimes of. Course the end of the tiller is
• 56:05
  like. Exactly, Yeah.
• 56:07
  Never ending. We can all make something that
• 56:08
  looks like a bow, but to actually tiller it right so it
• 56:11
  actually shoots and doesn't break is another matter.
• 56:14
  Yeah. Yeah, and everyone who I, I
• 56:17
  teach archery in Costa Rica and I have like basically when I
• 56:23
  open up the door to my quiver of bows, there's always this moment
• 56:27
  where like everyone takes a, a deep collective breath and just
• 56:30
  like, and they look at these beautiful things because I don't
• 56:33
  think any of them are expecting that.
• 56:35
  I think they were just expecting some, I don't know, maybe a
• 56:38
  fiberglass bow or just a piece of wood.
• 56:41
  But they are so beautiful. And it's something that everyone
• 56:45
  who sees them just like wants to hold them and stare at them.
• 56:48
  You know, of course they want to shoot them too, but like just
• 56:51
  just holding that beautiful piece of art and knowing that
• 56:54
  it's, it's not just something you can look at, but it's
• 56:57
  something that you actually get to shoot and it's, it's
• 57:01
  incredible. Yeah, yeah, I think it also, you
• 57:04
  know, it, it connects with, with, with a deeper nature of
• 57:08
  ourselves. You know, it's, it's something
• 57:10
  that our ancestors used to survive to, to, to hunt with,
• 57:15
  to, to provide with, also wage wars with.
• 57:19
  So there's a connection there, I think.
• 57:22
  And I find it funny as you say the same things about, you know,
• 57:27
  it's not a static thing because that's that's why I'm saying
• 57:30
  it's something that fascinates me, but also frustrates me
• 57:33
  because it's all all these things that can go wrong and
• 57:37
  will go wrong sometimes, you know, with bow making, I mean,
• 57:41
  people who are so have so much experience or on experts on, on
• 57:47
  anything, they make things look so easy.
• 57:49
  So everybody thinks like it's wow, wow, he's just still set in
• 57:53
  10 minutes and I'm taking all day working away on this stage.
• 57:58
  But it's so, so cool that I often, I don't know if if if
• 58:05
  this is the right comparison, but I also often compare it with
• 58:08
  a like a guitar, like an acoustic guitar.
• 58:12
  When people ask me how do I take care of of my bow.
• 58:15
  And I'd say the same if you have an acoustic guitar and you know,
• 58:19
  just don't put it in the sunlight, don't put it in the
• 58:21
  car because the string tension is just kind of the same thing
• 58:25
  with the wood. It it will bend and it will
• 58:28
  adjust itself. So maybe a guitar, guitar
• 58:34
  woodworker would would say the same thing that we're saying
• 58:37
  right now, but because you know when, when things are pretty.
• 58:41
  Fascinating, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 58:43
  And, and, you know, when we all have both a break, I mean,
• 58:47
  happens to me every now and then as well, happens to everybody.
• 58:52
  And in those moments, I often say to myself, oh man, I wish I
• 58:56
  could just make furniture or tables or just, you know, make
• 59:01
  some chairs, you know, oh man, why do I have to pick such a,
• 59:05
  first of all, such a small piece of, you know, of, of a market or
• 59:13
  whatever, but also just a, it's such a difficult thing.
• 59:16
  But then again, I would not make very good tables and very good
• 59:20
  chairs. So I think I might have to
• 59:24
  stick, stick with this. So I would not trust the chair
• 59:28
  I'll sit on so. Yeah.
• 59:31
  Do you have any influence from your your family or your
• 59:34
  ancestors and woodworking? Well, not really woodworking,
• 59:40
  no. My father, he, he's an engineer
• 59:44
  and he worked at power plants. He's retired now, but he could
• 59:48
  fix your bike, He fixed your motor, fixed your car or
• 59:52
  whatever with with metal. He would how do you call when
• 59:57
  you connect pieces of metal? Welding, He's welding Weld, that
• 1:00:00
  sort of stuff. So he was my go to guy to fix
• 1:00:04
  anything, you know, a broken toy.
• 1:00:06
  OK, Dad, could you please, please fix it.
• 1:00:09
  And so that was also part of. My inspiration to make things
• 1:00:16
  because it's, yeah, as I said, it's so just so cool to have
• 1:00:19
  some thoughts in your head. I want to make this or that.
• 1:00:22
  Or could it be possible to adjust things and just create
• 1:00:26
  it? And so that, that to me, I think
• 1:00:31
  was the first step. You know, he opened me my, my
• 1:00:35
  world to, to fixing things and making, making stuff.
• 1:00:41
  So that's that's where it began. And I think that the, the
• 1:00:43
  workshop, as I said with I really, really took things off.
• 1:00:48
  You know, if, if anybody's thinking about making their own
• 1:00:51
  bows or arrows or whatever, or a guitar for that instance, I
• 1:00:57
  mean, go do a workshop. I mean, there are so many people
• 1:01:01
  making, making things and doing workshop at the moment.
• 1:01:04
  It's, it's, it's crazy. I think, you know, everybody's
• 1:01:08
  doing workshops at the moment, but I, I understand now the
• 1:01:11
  reason, you know, it's so cool to first of all, as a teacher to
• 1:01:15
  connect with people who are, who are willing to do and, and
• 1:01:20
  wanting to do the same thing as you, but also learning about
• 1:01:24
  what it takes to, to make it. I mean, we're so spoiled in that
• 1:01:30
  sense, you know, like IKEA or made in China or whatever, you
• 1:01:34
  know, just get it on Amazon, eBay or whatever platform.
• 1:01:40
  But the appreciation for handmade tools, handmade
• 1:01:44
  instruments, you learn a lot about it and your appreciation
• 1:01:49
  for it really grows. Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  Yeah, I think every person in Project Quiver teaches either
• 1:01:56
  bow making or archery or a bit of both.
• 1:01:58
  It's there's definitely something something there about
• 1:02:03
  I think, you know, passing this art on, passing on the legacy
• 1:02:07
  and helping others to learn about it.
• 1:02:09
  And every, not everyone, but most men who come and do archery
• 1:02:14
  with me, they want to learn how to make the bows afterwards.
• 1:02:17
  Like, can I make one? OK, thank you.
• 1:02:19
  Eventually, eventually. I'm not quite there yet as a
• 1:02:21
  teacher, but you know. Eventually that is too.
• 1:02:24
  That is one of your goals to to. Yeah, I, it's, I, I think it's
• 1:02:30
  a, a natural progression of where things are going with my,
• 1:02:34
  I'm building a workshop right now in Costa Rica.
• 1:02:37
  And so I also, I'm a, a practitioner, I'm an
• 1:02:41
  acupuncturist. I practice Chinese medicine.
• 1:02:44
  And where I live it's very seasonal.
• 1:02:47
  There's the rainy season, 6 months of the year and then the
• 1:02:49
  dry season 6 months of the year. And the dry season is when all
• 1:02:53
  the visitors come, and everyone who lives in my community,
• 1:02:56
  everyone's there. So that's when I'm absolutely
• 1:03:00
  busiest with acupuncture. But in the rainy season, a lot
• 1:03:04
  of people leave, school's out, kids go back to wherever,
• 1:03:08
  tourists don't come. So I have a lot more time.
• 1:03:11
  So I would like to kind of divide that up and in the rainy
• 1:03:14
  season do some, certainly some boat carving, but also doing
• 1:03:17
  some workshops, yeah. OK, Yeah, cool.
• 1:03:21
  Yeah, but I'm, I'm a long way from there.
• 1:03:24
  But I have 15 amazing teachers lined up for this book, so I
• 1:03:27
  think by the end of it, I I should be in pretty good shape
• 1:03:31
  to at least have a better sense of how to do it.
• 1:03:33
  But once my workshop is built out, I think it'll be done by
• 1:03:37
  December. Then I'm going to start playing
• 1:03:40
  around with local woods in Costa Rica because that's very
• 1:03:43
  different than what I have available here on Vancouver
• 1:03:45
  Island, where I have all sorts of white woods and you and and
• 1:03:50
  you name it. I can go onto the the lumber
• 1:03:51
  stores too and buy any number of exotic woods.
• 1:03:56
  But in Costa Rica it's much more limited.
• 1:04:00
  But there is a very good bow wood called degame or lemon
• 1:04:03
  wood. Oh yeah.
• 1:04:04
  Yeah, yeah, I know. It yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:06
  And I don't know if I told this story on the podcast or not, but
• 1:04:10
  I, I've been looking for this wood in Costa Rica cause I've
• 1:04:14
  heard of it. I've never worked with lemon
• 1:04:15
  wood or degame, but I've heard it's incredible bow wood.
• 1:04:18
  I was talking with, I believe it was Chuck Loffler on my
• 1:04:21
  interview with him and he was talking about how the wood was,
• 1:04:24
  you know, almost extincted from bow years it was so popular.
• 1:04:28
  Grows naturally in Central America.
• 1:04:30
  It's the national tree of Nicaragua, which is our
• 1:04:32
  neighboring country, so it's protected there.
• 1:04:35
  I'd asked around. I went to some lumber yards
• 1:04:38
  trying to figure out if anyone know where I can get the gome.
• 1:04:40
  No one knew. I think it's called Salomo in,
• 1:04:43
  in Costa Rica. And then just a few, I guess
• 1:04:48
  it's been about a month ago now. The, the guy who's building my
• 1:04:54
  new carving studio, he was there.
• 1:04:57
  We were checking out the lands and I have this beautiful swing
• 1:05:01
  that I made out of driftwood that's hanging from this, this
• 1:05:05
  tree that has a natural bend in it and it makes a, a perfect
• 1:05:08
  hanging spot. It's right on the side of my
• 1:05:10
  archery range. And so when I'm teaching
• 1:05:12
  archery, people are always sitting there watching their
• 1:05:14
  friends do archery or their family do archery.
• 1:05:17
  And he was talking about how like what trees need to stay and
• 1:05:23
  like, well, that tree has to stay.
• 1:05:24
  You know, you can't cut that tree down.
• 1:05:25
  My swing's in that. And his girlfriend was there and
• 1:05:28
  she's a Costa Rican. And I asked her, I'm like, what
• 1:05:31
  kind of tree is that anyway? It's the degamme tree, the tree
• 1:05:35
  that I've been looking 3. Years.
• 1:05:36
  For I had no idea and it turns out I have like 4 or five of
• 1:05:40
  them on both sides of my archery range.
• 1:05:43
  I had no idea. Wow.
• 1:05:45
  So I found the degamme tree, but I can't use it because it's like
• 1:05:48
  it's part of my archery range. But at least now I know what it
• 1:05:51
  looks like and maybe I I can find some other sources for it.
• 1:05:55
  But I I was blown away. I'm like, you got to be kidding
• 1:05:57
  me. Like, I hung this swing beside
• 1:06:00
  my archery range from the exact tree I've been looking for.
• 1:06:04
  So yeah, my plan is, my plan is to start working with local
• 1:06:07
  woods and see what I can come up with there.
• 1:06:10
  I don't want to, I don't want to import woods for people to come
• 1:06:13
  in and make bows in Costa Rica if they're going to do what I
• 1:06:15
  want it to be. There's not much history that I
• 1:06:17
  can find for archery in Costa Rica, at least modern Costa
• 1:06:21
  Rica. It probably goes back, you know,
• 1:06:24
  further back into, you know, I'm going to kind of show my
• 1:06:31
  ignorance here. I don't know if this is the
• 1:06:32
  Aztecs or the Mayans or whoever lived in that area.
• 1:06:35
  I'm sure there was some archery in that history, but there's
• 1:06:38
  nothing really in the the semi modern Costa Rican history, very
• 1:06:41
  little on traditional archery. So.
• 1:06:45
  Have you heard maybe about the cops?
• 1:06:48
  Yes, yeah. I don't know how how big those,
• 1:06:52
  those trees on your property are, but I think that's
• 1:06:55
  something that the natives did you know, with the Osage, they
• 1:06:59
  would, you know, if, if you have a like a Osage tree that is, oh,
• 1:07:05
  it's, it's, I can pronounce it or explain it very well in
• 1:07:10
  Dutch, but not in English, but whatever.
• 1:07:12
  So if you have a have a single tree that might produce two or
• 1:07:18
  three trees, you know, like a like a clump, then they would
• 1:07:22
  take one, leave the other and you know, for future generations
• 1:07:28
  to to use. And that's a method they they
• 1:07:33
  would use to ensure that they will have boot while still
• 1:07:37
  having that tree. So yeah, I don't know if it
• 1:07:40
  would. Grow that way.
• 1:07:41
  But the ones that I have don't grow that way.
• 1:07:43
  It's just a one central trunk. Yeah, OK, OK.
• 1:07:50
  Yeah. Funny story, yeah.
• 1:07:52
  When did you start selling bows and was that was that an actual
• 1:07:56
  plan of yours as you got into bow making?
• 1:07:58
  Did you think you would eventually be able to sell them?
• 1:08:00
  No, I mean that that is something that that came along
• 1:08:06
  with my journey. I mean, yeah, I, I started
• 1:08:08
  making it all for myself. And then people, well, they
• 1:08:14
  would inquire, you know, if I want to buy this bow or could I
• 1:08:19
  order one from you? Then, then I thought, OK, well,
• 1:08:22
  that's, that's cool. That's nice.
• 1:08:23
  I will make them for you. And you, you start small and
• 1:08:27
  within your own network. And then I thought, you know, as
• 1:08:30
  a, as a teenager, I was making bows and selling them.
• 1:08:33
  Oh, wow. Well, this is, this is, this is
• 1:08:35
  way better than than doing the dishes in some restaurants, you
• 1:08:38
  know, working, it's amazing working some restaurant job.
• 1:08:42
  So I did some, some of those bows in those years and you
• 1:08:48
  know, I, I, the, the prices I got from them is really low.
• 1:08:54
  But at the time I thought, oh man, this is a lot of money
• 1:08:58
  because, you know, I was 17 or 18, whatever.
• 1:09:01
  So I thought, oh man, this is a, this is a business.
• 1:09:04
  But then I figured, you know, I, I want to do it, do this, do
• 1:09:09
  this well. And, and I want to do this
• 1:09:12
  firstly mainly for myself. So then I started experimenting,
• 1:09:17
  going to a workshop with Yap and learning from him and doing
• 1:09:22
  well, history studies as well and also giving classes so
• 1:09:31
  slowly. I, I thought, you know, if I
• 1:09:33
  want to make bows for a living and sell them, I, I want to
• 1:09:37
  produce what in my view is the, the best I can make.
• 1:09:41
  And that's why I'm, well, I, I still aiming for at the moment,
• 1:09:47
  you know, I'm still making bows and thinking, OK, this is good,
• 1:09:51
  this is cool, this is nice, this should good, but OK, next one
• 1:09:55
  we're going to up the game a little bit and change the core
• 1:10:00
  or change this or that. And so in a way, it's a lot.
• 1:10:08
  It's, it's not like full production, like every bow's
• 1:10:12
  exactly the same. They're all a little bit unique
• 1:10:15
  in their own way. And that's mainly because of the
• 1:10:17
  materials. It's natural, but also because,
• 1:10:20
  you know, a bow I made two years ago might look just a tiny
• 1:10:24
  little bit different than I'm making today because, you know,
• 1:10:28
  you're improving or changing your methods.
• 1:10:31
  And so, yeah, I've been making bows professionally, I think now
• 1:10:35
  for about 3 or 4 years where I'm selling worldwide.
• 1:10:39
  And yeah, shipping them out, yeah.
• 1:10:44
  Do you remember what the first bow was that you sold?
• 1:10:47
  Oh, it was probably an English long bow with the IP belly and
• 1:10:54
  bamboo in the core and bamboo at the back.
• 1:10:57
  And I, I sold that for, I don't know, €300 or something or 250.
• 1:11:04
  But at the time I thought, well, this is nice.
• 1:11:06
  But you know, then as soon as discovered, you know, it's not
• 1:11:12
  that easy to, to sell, to sell in the, in, in the Dutch market.
• 1:11:18
  I don't know if you know anything about our history, but
• 1:11:20
  Dutchies are, are traders, you know, and and they all all want
• 1:11:26
  the best price, as many of us do, you know.
• 1:11:30
  So I thought, you know, the Dutch market is first of all,
• 1:11:34
  quite small and second of all, I thought, you know, this is not,
• 1:11:37
  this is not the kind of place I want to focus on.
• 1:11:43
  I want to, well, have a wide open gaze and focus on, on, on
• 1:11:48
  all The Archers out there. And there are always people who
• 1:11:54
  are, you know, as I say, interested in your work.
• 1:11:59
  I mean, that's why I'm saying, you know, just do it, Go out
• 1:12:02
  and, and, and make your own stuff if you want to want to.
• 1:12:05
  And there's always somebody interested in it.
• 1:12:09
  If you want to sell it, if you want, if you really want to go
• 1:12:12
  for it, yeah. Then then you'll find that that
• 1:12:17
  somebody or the other way around.
• 1:12:22
  So that's that's kind of how it started.
• 1:12:25
  And that was, yeah, well, almost 20 years ago and.
• 1:12:29
  That first bow cell? I think, yeah, I was 16 or 17
• 1:12:33
  maybe. That's amazing.
• 1:12:35
  So that's a little bit like 18 years ago or something, yeah.
• 1:12:39
  And do you teach? Others, yeah, sometimes, yeah.
• 1:12:43
  At the moment, you know, I have a small shop and there's not a
• 1:12:47
  lot of workspace. So sometimes I have somebody
• 1:12:51
  helping me, like my neighbor a couple of days ago he was really
• 1:12:55
  interested and said, well, OK, can I get get in your workshop
• 1:12:59
  and help you out? And I did some workshops in the
• 1:13:02
  past, but next year I might expand a little bit and do some
• 1:13:10
  humi making workshops. I mean, you're coming by and and
• 1:13:13
  we're going to experiment and do some Yumi.
• 1:13:16
  Do yumi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be
• 1:13:18
  cool. I'm not excited.
• 1:13:20
  Yeah, I don't get a lot of workshops at the moment, so
• 1:13:25
  we'll see. Maybe in the future.
• 1:13:27
  Yeah, yeah, I got to figure out how to get that Yumi bow back to
• 1:13:30
  Canada. Yeah.
• 1:13:32
  Yeah, as with all the bows I'm carving.
• 1:13:34
  Cut it in half, you. Know.
• 1:13:35
  No, but you ship them everywhere, right?
• 1:13:39
  So you've got experience. Shipping.
• 1:13:40
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can work something out no
• 1:13:43
  problem. Yeah, yeah, sure.
• 1:13:44
  Yeah, everywhere. It's like I I've thought about
• 1:13:47
  carrying them from 1 bow year to the next, but they're just like
• 1:13:50
  so awkward. I'm going to be on trains and
• 1:13:52
  visiting other cities and like, I don't want these all these
• 1:13:56
  valuable. And you're starting, you're
• 1:13:58
  starting the journey with me in Europe.
• 1:14:00
  The European journey is starting with you, yeah.
• 1:14:03
  Then you would have to make the most inconvenient sized bow with
• 1:14:07
  you all all all the trips. Yeah, definitely going to have
• 1:14:11
  to ship that one. I think so, yeah.
• 1:14:13
  We'll do that, yeah. No, all of them.
• 1:14:15
  There's not a convenient size when it comes to traveling with
• 1:14:17
  them both. They're all pretty awkward for
• 1:14:21
  modern day travel so. Yeah.
• 1:14:24
  But yeah, I'm really excited about it.
• 1:14:25
  I know like what we have just discussed in the last hour
• 1:14:29
  basically is the extent of what I know about Yumi Bow.
• 1:14:32
  So I'm really looking forward to being able to be in your
• 1:14:36
  workshop and to to learn from you and create something
• 1:14:40
  beautiful. Yeah, looking forward to it.
• 1:14:43
  And yeah, it would be great to having you guys here and we'll
• 1:14:48
  talk more about those, those degami trees.
• 1:14:50
  I'm really interested in those as well, you know.
• 1:14:53
  And well, it's to me, it's cool to hear as you say, is that that
• 1:15:00
  there are many people maybe not connected or some are connected
• 1:15:06
  or experience the same thing. And that's so funny to hear, you
• 1:15:12
  know, you, you're talking about the release in archery about
• 1:15:15
  the, the sort of like spontaneous surprise.
• 1:15:18
  And that's something I'm, I'm thinking about or, you know,
• 1:15:22
  the, the woodworking frustration we all experience sometimes with
• 1:15:27
  the, with the bows. It's not only nice to hear, but
• 1:15:31
  also quite interesting that they're all.
• 1:15:36
  Yeah, well, we're all living our own little life and all little
• 1:15:39
  bubble, but they're all experiencing the same struggles,
• 1:15:42
  the same same things in life. Even as a bow maker, a
• 1:15:45
  woodworker or whatever, as an Archer.
• 1:15:48
  Yeah. So that's.
• 1:15:49
  Same struggles and and also, I think the same victories, the
• 1:15:52
  same in our own unique way. We're all gaining something
• 1:15:58
  invaluable from the experiences of, in this case, being
• 1:16:03
  woodworkers, being bowyers, and being able to create these
• 1:16:06
  amazing tools. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:16:11
  We'll talk more about that when you when you guys get here.
• 1:16:14
  I'm looking. Forward to that sounds good.
• 1:16:15
  Yeah. Why?
• 1:16:17
  Yeah, we're so excited, like I said, especially for me to be
• 1:16:20
  able to bring my daughter to Europe for the first time.
• 1:16:22
  And yeah, I was just started in your city.
• 1:16:24
  She's 15. OK, so.
• 1:16:27
  This isn't she. OK.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah, no, I was just going to wonder, you know, as a teacher,
• 1:16:34
  how, how, how's that work with school?
• 1:16:37
  Yeah, so she does at school, she's or she does her own thing.
• 1:16:42
  I, I like to refer to her as a high school dropout, which I
• 1:16:46
  absolutely love. I spent prior to this version of
• 1:16:49
  my life, I owned a College of holistic medicine in Canada.
• 1:16:53
  And so I spent like 18 years in in higher education.
• 1:16:56
  And one might think I would be a proponent of it, but I'm
• 1:17:01
  absolutely not. And I'm a proponent of following
• 1:17:04
  passion as you and I have been talking about, do what you love
• 1:17:07
  to do and things will come from that.
• 1:17:10
  And so about about a year and a half ago, she decided that she
• 1:17:15
  was not. She was in an amazing kind of
• 1:17:19
  Montessori based school in Costa Rica.
• 1:17:21
  And my son is still there and love the school, love the
• 1:17:23
  community behind it. But she was, she was kind of
• 1:17:29
  outgrew what she needed from that.
• 1:17:30
  And she's very self driven and motivated.
• 1:17:33
  And so we talked about her just pursuing her passions.
• 1:17:37
  And one of the amazing things about the community where I live
• 1:17:39
  is people from all over the world have moved there at least
• 1:17:43
  for part of the year. And many of these people are the
• 1:17:47
  best at whatever they did. You know, there's incredible,
• 1:17:52
  incredible community. And so one of the things she
• 1:17:54
  wanted to do was drama and aerial arts.
• 1:17:58
  And so we found some amazing teachers for her.
• 1:18:00
  And now she's part of a a group in that community that creates
• 1:18:04
  beautiful performances. We're actually going to go to
• 1:18:06
  Austria to stay with one of her teachers after we visit with
• 1:18:08
  you. And another thing she wanted to
• 1:18:11
  do was photography. And she basically found her an
• 1:18:14
  incredible photography teacher. And that's where kind of the
• 1:18:19
  that was part of the genesis of this book.
• 1:18:21
  I knew I wanted to travel around and study under different bow
• 1:18:23
  years and I eventually knew I wanted to write a book about it.
• 1:18:27
  But once she got into photography and was no longer
• 1:18:30
  bound by school schedule, like we'll hang on here, we could
• 1:18:34
  create a beautiful visual book because I started to also
• 1:18:37
  realize, like if I'm making a book based on bow years, we need
• 1:18:41
  photos. And and so then it just kind of
• 1:18:45
  started to take shape from there.
• 1:18:47
  And she's been, for the last almost year, she's been working
• 1:18:50
  very hard with her teacher to basically gain the, the skills
• 1:18:55
  she needs to be able to do the photos for this book.
• 1:18:57
  So it's been incredible. And yeah, she's, I'm, I'm
• 1:19:03
  thrilled with the way she's doing her education.
• 1:19:05
  She reads so many books. She reads like a literally a
• 1:19:09
  book every day or two. So she's getting lots of
• 1:19:11
  experience from that. But she has very, very clear
• 1:19:14
  things that she's passionate about.
• 1:19:16
  And that's what we want to help her.
• 1:19:18
  Yeah, You know, explore those things.
• 1:19:20
  One of them's Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
• 1:19:22
  She trains 8 or 9 * a week. She's crazy about it.
• 1:19:26
  So OK. And if she was in school, she
• 1:19:28
  wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah, I think, you know, there's
• 1:19:32
  lots, lot of things to say to, to sometimes, you know, school
• 1:19:36
  is not always the best system for everybody.
• 1:19:38
  And, well, as a teacher, you're still teaching.
• 1:19:41
  So you. You.
• 1:19:43
  Well, you don't. Have to incriminate yourself
• 1:19:47
  yet? But.
• 1:19:49
  You know, I, I mean, there's a lot of things to say about, you
• 1:19:52
  know, the school system that doesn't work for a whole bunch
• 1:19:57
  of students. But also in general, we, I think
• 1:20:00
  we have to wonder, you know, what is the purpose of the
• 1:20:04
  system? And I mean, teaching is good,
• 1:20:07
  but what do you teach and why and.
• 1:20:09
  Yeah, yeah. I think it's.
• 1:20:11
  Still and listen and and just I mean.
• 1:20:15
  Yeah, as a system, I think through traditional style we're
• 1:20:18
  used to in the West is definitely dysfunctional.
• 1:20:21
  I think there's a lot of other ways to go about it.
• 1:20:23
  And. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:20:25
  Yeah. Traveling the world and creating
• 1:20:27
  beautiful experiences and meeting people and creating this
• 1:20:30
  book for me and my daughter. This is one of those ways.
• 1:20:33
  And for like, this is my schooling too.
• 1:20:35
  Like I'm yeah, that's it's this is me going back to school to
• 1:20:39
  learn from the best bow teachers, bow carving teachers
• 1:20:42
  in the world, which is incredible.
• 1:20:43
  Like I, I get that opportunity to be a student again and to
• 1:20:47
  study under 15 amazing mentors. So for me, this is my schooling.
• 1:20:52
  So it never stops. I think, I think kind of we got
• 1:20:55
  stuck in that rut that you need to do your schooling until
• 1:20:58
  you're 18 and then you need to go on to your postgraduate
• 1:21:01
  studies and say you're in your mid 20s and then check.
• 1:21:04
  The boxes, yeah. That's it.
• 1:21:06
  And then you enter into the workforce and start a career and
• 1:21:08
  become miserable. So yeah, I, I don't really
• 1:21:12
  prescribe to that. So it's like you said, do what
• 1:21:16
  you love to do and there'll there'll be a, there'll be a
• 1:21:20
  market for it. And if it's not a market
• 1:21:22
  financially, there's there's a market from the sense of
• 1:21:25
  fulfilment and purpose. Exactly.
• 1:21:27
  You you found something purpose in life or Yeah, fulfillment.
• 1:21:31
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 1:21:33
  Well, great to be part of your, your, your schooling and
• 1:21:36
  adventure and thank you. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:39
  I mean, man, I would love to to be on that journey as well, but
• 1:21:45
  I'm, I'm part of it now, so. That's you are part of it, yeah.
• 1:21:49
  That's also very cool. Yeah.
• 1:21:51
  Lovely, yeah. Yeah, Well, thank you so much.
• 1:21:54
  And I, I can't believe it's like a month away.
• 1:21:56
  We're going to be there with you, so.
• 1:21:58
  Yeah, I'll prepare some stuff for you guys over here and so we
• 1:22:02
  can get straight to work and yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:05
  And well, we'll, I will exchange numbers over e-mail and so we
• 1:22:10
  can talk a little bit easier about this in depth or whatever,
• 1:22:16
  but how to get here. But yeah, looking forward to it.
• 1:22:20
  Yeah, same, Stefan. And thank you for doing this.
• 1:22:22
  What an educational experience for me and the listeners been
• 1:22:26
  incredible. Thank you very much for sharing
• 1:22:28
  your knowledge and expertise. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:22:31
  Well, thank you for the opportunity as well.
• 1:22:33
  And maybe I raised some eyebrows or maybe you think people are
• 1:22:38
  having some questions or thinking, huh, did he really say
• 1:22:42
  that? And I'm, I'm really curious
• 1:22:43
  about that. So I don't know if people are
• 1:22:46
  can leave comments on, on the yeah, they can leave comments.
• 1:22:49
  They can leave comments. Yeah, I'm really interested in
• 1:22:51
  that. And we'll see what, what this
• 1:22:54
  brings. Yeah.
• 1:22:55
  Yeah, and where can people find you on the Internet?
• 1:23:00
  Yeah. So you can mainly find me on
• 1:23:03
  Facebook, Bamboo Bose or on Instagram.
• 1:23:07
  That's, I think that's Bamboo dot Bose, correct.
• 1:23:11
  And well, there you can find me mostly.
• 1:23:15
  And if you want to look for orders or something, I'm, I'm
• 1:23:19
  currently rebuilding my website, but you can find me on Etsy at
• 1:23:23
  the moment. And that's that works for me at
• 1:23:26
  the moment. But I'm that's going to change
• 1:23:28
  soon with the webshop or something.
• 1:23:30
  Yeah, great. Yeah.
• 1:23:33
  Thank you so much. We'll see you soon.
• 1:23:37
  Yeah, great talking to you, you too and give my regards and
• 1:23:42
  looking forward to meeting you and in person over here.
• 1:23:45
  Yeah, likewise. Thanks for listening to Project
• 1:23:57
  Quiver on Salish Wolf. Follow our journey on Instagram
• 1:24:00
  at Project Quiver as we seek out the world's most extraordinary
• 1:24:03
  traditional boat years and join our newsletter at
• 1:24:06
  projectquiver.com. Our coffee table book, Quiver,
• 1:24:10
  The Art of Life through Bow Craft, arrives in 2026.
• 1:24:14
  We are honored to share with you the beauty, history, and magic
• 1:24:18
  of traditional archery.