Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Ep. 648 - Behind the Scenes: Decoy Carving Techniques with George Strunk

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Ep. 648 - Behind the Scenes: Decoy Carving Techniques with George Strunk · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• Katie Burke: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, Katie Burke, and today is special because not only do I have my friend George Strunk here, who is a decoy carver, but we are in his shop in Glendora, New Jersey. All right, George, so I've tried to get you on this podcast for, well, as long as it's been on. So here we are, which I'm glad that I didn't do it before, because now we get to do it here in your shop, which is way cooler than actually doing it just talking on the phone. So, well, I always start off like everything first with like, how did you get in? I know you're a hunter. So how did you like get into the outdoors? Did hunting and outdoors come first or did decoys come first? George Strunk: Hunting came first. Hunting came first. When I was younger, everybody hunted around here, you know. And my parents in the early 50s, 52, 53, they broke ground down the shore and built a little hunting cabin, fishing cabin, cabin. Katie Burke: So where would that be? George Strunk: In Goshen, near Dennisville. And our backyard was Dennisville Wildlife Refuge. Katie Burke: Oh, cool. George Strunk: So, you know, it was pretty rural back then down there. You know, as kids, that's all we did. Whenever my parents had off, we were down there. So they built that before I was born. And me and my brother would go down. Katie Burke: So are you the youngest or the oldest? I'm the oldest. You're the oldest, okay. So y'all just kind of got to run around and do whatever you wanted, really? George Strunk: Pretty much, yeah. And before we were driving and all, we would walk back and duck hunt and walk through, you know, play in the woods. Katie Burke: So did you start off duck hunting or did you start off doing something else? George Strunk: I started off, when I got my license, we went rabbit hunting. Okay. That was the first thing I did. Yeah, okay. And my brother started, he's a year younger, but he kind of took to it a little more than I did. So when we went duck hunting as kids, it was mostly his decoys and Katie Burke: Oh, really? So did he make his decoys, or did you all buy them from somebody? George Strunk: No, it was a mixed match of corks and plastics and stuff like that, and we kept them down in the cabin. Okay. So yeah, until then, and I didn't start— Well, we had the cabin, and when I got older, the lot next door was for sale, and Jamie hand bought it. Katie Burke: Okay. George Strunk: And Jamie put out a sign, decoy maker, and I really didn't— know there was guys still making decoys. I went over and met him, and he asked if I'd like to try it. How old were you? 22, 23. Okay. Somewhere in there. And I said, yeah. And he cut me out a decoy, and it's just, I've been obsessed ever since. You know? Katie Burke: That's cool. So, okay. Just because, I mean, I don't know, and some of our listeners probably do. So, okay. What is duck hunting like at that point when you're starting. So what does that look like, duck hunting-wise? What kind of marsh, what do you, like, what's that? George Strunk: What do you shoot, sort of thing? This is salt marsh, a lot of black ducks. Okay, salt marsh. Black ducks or teal. There seemed to be a lot more ducks then. Katie Burke: Oh yeah, it seems like there was a lot more ducks 10 years ago. George Strunk: Yeah, I mean. You know, every bend you'd go around, you'd jump a ton of black ducks. Katie Burke: So you would jump, shoot ducks, or would y'all do a mix? George Strunk: No, we would hunt out of blinds. In the beginning, it was… Actually, my brother had a little 12-foot boat, and we would go out in that, and we just… Well, originally, we would walk out and set up a little hide or something, or a blind, a makeshift blind. Right. And that's how we always hunted, because I don't think you're allowed to build blinds. We never built a permanent blind. Katie Burke: Okay, that's interesting, yeah. George Strunk: And as I got older, I started, I got a sneak box and then you could just move around wherever the ducks were. Katie Burke: Yeah, yeah, okay. George Strunk: But having a cabin, I could go down a day or two early and scout and find out where everything is. Katie Burke: Yeah, so did your dad hunt at all or you and your brother just kind of figured it out? George Strunk: My dad, he was a deer hunter mostly. He hunted rabbits and he hunted ducks, not when I was young because Before that, he would hunt with friends down there. I actually have video from like the fifties of him going out. He would take video and there were still little shacks out there. I had it put on DVD. Katie Burke: That's really neat. So your brother and you kind of just kind of figured it out on your own for the most part. Do you have any friends and stuff that do it with you or just you two? George Strunk: No, we had a bunch of friends. Everybody ducked on him back then. Katie Burke: And now, because like we're so close to Philadelphia, right? It's just like right there. And I went to grad school there and it's just that when I came up from Mississippi in grad school and like when I told people I hunted, they just like, it was like so foreign. They didn't know, they never met anybody, but it's so crazy because it's just, we're just right here. And it's so different. It's how quickly it can change from up here. George Strunk: Yeah, and we used to hunt right there. At the end of the street is the Timber Creek. Okay. Katie Burke: Or Crick, as we… As y'all say up here. George Strunk: We always hunted down there, you know. Yeah. You could just, you could walk across the tracks down here and go hunting on the other side of the Crick and… Shoot black ducks? Katie Burke: Or what'd you shoot? Down here, there was… Do you get any mallards over here? George Strunk: Yeah, there's mallards and… A little more variety, pintails and occasional shovelers. Katie Burke: Okay, I've never seen a shoveler over here. Yeah, that's cool. So you said like Jamie is who showed you about carving, but were you familiar with wooden decoys? I mean, before that, like when did you kind of George Strunk: Before that, about a year or two before that, me and my brother went to an auction down there, an old farm auction. And there was a basket of old decoys, wooden decoys. And I said, I think together we had like 100 bucks on us or something. I said, I want to buy them and see if I can redo them. And the auctioneer started and they were going for 90, 100 bucks a piece. I thought I could get the whole barrel. So that was my, and I just couldn't. Do you know what they were? I do now. I found out who bought them, but they were Ludlum decoys from down that way. And I was just shocked what they were going for, because they were broken up, heads missing. Katie Burke: Oh, really? George Strunk: Yeah. Katie Burke: So that was your first, yeah, because I was like, so actually my first, I never knew what decoys were, because in Mississippi, like we have no, decoy history, or really any kind of object history. I mean, there's a lot of waterfowl hunting, obviously, in the Delta, but there's just no physical objects that were made. And when I came up here for grad school, I did some work with Tucker, and I saw him, and I was like, Like, what's this? Like, I don't know what these are. And that was the first time I ever saw them, and I was shocked. George Strunk: Decoys? Katie Burke: Yeah. Like, wooden decoys. I just assumed everything was, like, cork or plastic or… Right, right. I mean, it made sense, obviously, but we just never… They said there's no, like, there's just no decoy history there. Yeah. And I don't think they used them. Everybody I've ever talked to, because of the timber, I've talked to, because Arkansas doesn't have any, they always said they just painted jugs black and stuff, and kicked water. George Strunk: You don't see too many decoys from that area. Katie Burke: Yeah, there's none. No carvers from that area. There is like, when you get down to Louisiana, like South Mississippi, you'll see them, but there's none. Like in the flooded timber, Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, there's call makers. No decoys. George Strunk: But yeah. Yeah. I've never hunted down there. Katie Burke: It's fun. I mean, we don't hunt timber in Mississippi anymore, but when they were… And I've talked to Dad about it, because he grew up in my hometown, and he hunted there. And he said, yeah, you just had to find timbers. By the time they were close enough to see if there was a decoy, you were shooting them. So he's like, you're mostly just kicking water, and you need waves and stuff. And I don't know about here. And I always find this funny, because talking like Cooper and them like, you know, like on the East Coast, like the best day is like a stormy, wet, cold, like miserable. And where we're from, it's like bluebird skies and wind. George Strunk: No, that's a good day. Katie Burke: Yeah, that's like, that's a good day for us. Clouds are like the enemy. George Strunk: Yeah, a little bit of snow is nice. Katie Burke: Oh yeah, well, we don't get any of that. George Strunk: We don't get much of that anymore either. Katie Burke: But yeah, so it's just really different how that works. But okay, so you see those decoys, and then you, in between that, are you thinking about wooden decoys before you meet Jamie, or is it? George Strunk: Not really. Katie Burke: So how much older, is Jamie older than you? George Strunk: Yeah, he's about five years older. Katie Burke: Okay, so how long was he carving before you? George Strunk: He probably had 10 years carving before I met him, roughly. Okay, so he started young, yeah. Well, he started, yeah, he started, yeah, at least 10 years, I guess. So he was pretty good. Katie Burke: But was he already teaching people at that point? Or were you like the first person he was like? George Strunk: I don't remember because I would just he would cut it out for me and I would come home and I actually have it here. I should tell you. I want to grab it. You know, I took it home and I carved it best I could. And then I got Rustoleum flat gloss paint. It's still a little glossy. I painted it with gloss paint, and I gave it to my brother years ago, and he just gave it back to me recently. So I have it here, but I'm a little embarrassed, but you know. Katie Burke: What's your first? How old were you again? 23, I guess, something like that. Who was that I was talking to? I can't remember who it was. I think it was somebody, one of the Illinois guys of like that area maybe. And they were like, yeah, you can throw that first one away. Don't get too upset about that first one. George Strunk: I've made a pair of mergansers, my first mergansers. I got them back. You did? Yeah, because they were really bad. They were bad. Katie Burke: I think I was at Grayson's and he has Cameron's first one, I think. Right. Yeah, and it's pretty rough. George Strunk: Yeah. Actually, Jamie's brother bought the first duck off me. Really? Yeah, his brother Dave and he said— What'd you sell it for? $35. I thought, wow, sure. Take it. $35. Katie Burke: Okay, so you took it home and you carve it. Are you bringing stuff back to Jamie at that point to look at? George Strunk: Yeah, because we were going down every weekend. I mean, we were down there all the time. So I would bring it back the next weekend. He'd say, do this, do that. Yeah. Katie Burke: So at what point— I mean, your styles are New Jersey, but obviously you kind of go your own direction with it. So what's the transition like through carving, as you keep doing it? And when do you start doing it full-time? How long does this take? How long do you get to that point? George Strunk: I was probably carving 10 or 15 years before I went full-time. Okay. But I was doing ironwork. Yeah. So I was carving part-time. Okay. And I only went full-time because ironwork got so slow in like 92 and three. Okay. And that's about when I went full-time. Okay. Katie Burke: How many decoys were you making before you were full-time? George Strunk: I was making a pretty lot for part-time, maybe 100 a year or so. Katie Burke: Okay, that's a lot. George Strunk: Maybe, maybe 50 to 100. Katie Burke: Were you as detailed painting? No. Okay, yeah, I was going to say, yeah, because that would make it harder to pull out as many. George Strunk: No, I was making pretty simple decoys, but about a year or so after I met Jamie, somebody came here and said, why don't you make them like we make around here to Delaware River? Katie Burke: Okay, that's what, yeah, okay. George Strunk: And I said, all right, I'll try. And then I sought out Bob White. So he was really the only one I could think of that I knew of making Delaware River. So I met Bob and he was really helpful with everything. He's always been, you know. So how was, yeah, that relationship was important for… Yeah, I got pretty friendly with Bob, did a lot of hunting with him and Jamie. Yeah. I hunted with Jamie a lot because he was right next to our cabin, so. Katie Burke: Yeah. So where's Bob from here? Is he close? George Strunk: 40 minutes. Katie Burke: He's the other way. Yeah, I actually met him this weekend at Easton. Yeah, for the first time. And he's probably the fittest 85-year-old man I've ever seen. George Strunk: He takes care of himself. I'll never be like that if I make 85. Katie Burke: It's aspirational. But yeah, I'd never met him before. And I can see, I see that now that you say it. I never thought about the influence there. George Strunk: There is definitely… He was really the only one I knew of making Delaware Rivers. Katie Burke: It was it. Was that an easy decision to switch to a Delaware River style? George Strunk: I always like doing different stuff. And I did both for years and I still do occasional Barnegat style decoys. Katie Burke: So when were you… At what point did you start getting clients? How did you start selling stuff? George Strunk: I think it was just… Like an organic? Word of mouth. It was pretty local. Then I did the Tuckerton Show. I think first year was 85 or 86. I did the show. Katie Burke: And what was the Tuckerton Show like at that point? George Strunk: It was big back then. It was huge. Katie Burke: And what was… Were you meeting more Carvers when you were there as well? George Strunk: Yeah. Well, you know, everybody, you know, hangs out. Yeah. And I met Russ Allen real early too. Okay. When I started. Katie Burke: When did you start getting clients that were continuously asking for more stuff and you get some more of that sort of thing? When did that happen? George Strunk: I don't know. You know, in the beginning, I would sell them to whoever, and they were pretty cheap, and I sold some to a store down in Smithville. And some guy found me from there and started ordering some, and it just snowballs from there. You know, you do tuckered and you meet people. There was no cell phones. It was either a regular phone or you get a letter from somebody. There's no communication like today. Katie Burke: And you're like, so yeah, you're like doing that. So you can do like a hundred a year. That's a lot to do a hundred a year. Were you just doing like gunning style decoys at that point? Pretty much. George Strunk: Okay. Katie Burke: Yeah. So most of like hunting decoys for the most part. George Strunk: Yeah. That was all I thought about was hunting decoys. Katie Burke: Yeah. So when did you move over to doing more decorative stuff? George Strunk: I don't know. I did some, I don't know. Yeah. The timeline. You know, Katie Burke: You just kind of like, you were doing this and you start seeing the more decorative stuff and kind of— Well, the more you do, the more you see and you're influenced by different stuff. And you want to change something up, try something new, that sort of thing. George Strunk: Like, I was always interested in Barnegat and Delaware River decoys, like English and Schuertz and Horner and, you know, the classic stuff. And then you start seeing Krolls and you say, you know, I'm going to try something. Katie Burke: Yeah. So, because it's so— Because your decoys, obviously, you have the headpiece in there, you hollow your decoys out, but then you're having to come to these multiple-piece sort of situation, and I'm guessing it offers a new challenge on… Well, I've been wanting to try one of these for a while, and I just figured I'd give it a try, but this is a little more complicated. George Strunk: You've got to paint both sides of the wing and then put them on, and you've got to kind of figure it out. Katie Burke: Yeah, and I know like with uh, because I was talking to Cameron about his dead mount and like when you get with the wings like it gets complicated because like you're having to make sure the grain is like that's a whole situation because like it's more delicate and then near. George Strunk: Yeah, like even here there's dales and I got a dale going in through here and a dale going in through here because it's This is where it splits. So you gotta strengthen it in here before you carve it. Katie Burke: How skinny is that dowel, I think? George Strunk: It's just like an eighth inch dowel. But it adds strength to this. So your grain is, it's coming across here. So you could just snap that off if you didn't have something. I learned that by the first one I tried, I broke. I dropped it, I broke. So I'm gonna put dowels in it. That's a good way to learn. Katie Burke: Yeah, I didn't even think, I never thought about that until he was talking about it, because he was saying it was so complicated, like, because he had that one, that wing was hanging out, and it was like, he's like, yeah, that thing took me forever to get it just right. Yeah. George Strunk: Yeah, it's a lot. It's, you know, you got to figure it out. And everyone's different when you put the heads on and, you know. Katie Burke: And your bill is, it's all one piece, right? That's all one. The bill? Yeah. Is it separate? George Strunk: No, this is a, it's just a dow. Oh, you just put the dow on it. I use a poplar dow. So I can, if you use oak, it's hard to get that line in there and carve it. So it's not, it's not going to be used, but poplar's pretty strong. Yeah. Nice grain or no grain almost. No grain. Okay. A little bit. Katie Burke: Yeah, that's cool. Okay, so when do you change, so what is your paint style to start with and when do you start changing your painting style? Your painting style is very, Like, you can pick out your decoys. Like, it's very signature, like, of you. George Strunk: Well, I don't know if you change. I think you progress as you keep going. Okay. You keep carving. I think it's a long process. Katie Burke: So, who are you looking at? Who are you looking at at the paint that you were, like, what you were inspired by and what were you, like, George Strunk: Well, everybody, really. Contemporary guys. Bob, I used to watch Bob paint. He would never really teach anything, but he'd let you sit there and watch him. He was very casual. And then, you know, you'd look at, I like the Ward's paint. Kroll, of course. You know, any paint you see that's interesting. Katie Burke: Yeah, but you have this softness to yours that's different, I find, than anyone else. George Strunk: Well, I don't know. Katie Burke: I do. I think it's different. Especially, like, they're on the wall back here. I can look at the backs of those teal. They're like, there's a feather. There's a softness to the feathers. Whereas, like, you know, the wards have that. I mean, there's a little more of it here where it's like sharper paint. Like, you know, they don't quite soften it out the same way. George Strunk: Well, I think Kroll did that a lot. Yeah, he did a little more. A little more blending. Katie Burke: Yeah, it's just the way you do that. George Strunk: But each one's a challenge, you know? Yeah. You try to get better. Katie Burke: So did you like look at them and think like, okay. I mean, you probably weren't thinking, I was thinking about this with like… I don't think too much. Yeah, you're not thinking about it. You're just kind of like doing it. You're like, this is what I like. I like the way this is going. And you just keep kind of going. Yeah. So you're just kind of thinking about like, as you're painting, this is what you're liking. And then you just kind of keep going. George Strunk: As you keep doing it, you get a little more confident and like… In the beginning, everything you do is, you know, am I going to mess this up? And then you realize if you mess it up, you can fix it. Katie Burke: Yeah, because you're doing it with oil, so you can fix it for the most part. Just wipe it off. Yeah. So what was, how was learning that? I was talking about this with someone, oh, I was talking to, I just interviewed, she's a, she mostly does like flat art and paintings. Rebecca Knight, she's like a newer wildlife artist. George Strunk: I've seen her on Facebook. Katie Burke: Yeah, and she's gotten second in the Duck Stamp Cup. She just actually, she was at Easton and she painted, she carved and painted a decoy, her first decoy. Oh, okay. And I actually, I was like, you need to talk to Josh, I think, cause he's kind of in between like doing that more decorative stuff. Like he'd be a nice person for you to talk to. But I was talking with her about like, and I, a little bit, cause like she, she knows how to build like paint, right? Cause she's, I mean, I'm not saying this is just, but that learning, I feel like when you're, I mean, I painted too, like that learning of, building color to get the color you actually want. It's a process to, because it's not necessarily intuitive. Like you don't necessarily, and I think for everybody realize like if you, these colors will actually give you this color in the long run. George Strunk: I think it's a long, hard learn for guys. Katie Burke: So it was like watching Bob and stuff like that. Was that really helpful in kind of like, George Strunk: Well, you know, I watched Jamie and, you know, he paints a little simpler, but you learn how to paint a straight line. Yeah. It's a little stuff. It just builds and you just keep picking up new things and trying to figure out if you see a carving, how the guy did it and try to figure it out. Katie Burke: Okay. So yeah, like when you go to shows and stuff, you're just picking up decoys and… Yeah. Mostly like figuring out what's going on in there. George Strunk: And I like the antique decoys, you know. Katie Burke: So mine are more along that line, if I do a decorative or… Yeah, you have a… It kind of… No, this is not… I guess… Does Blair count as… Like Delaware River? Yes. Yeah, that's kind of the one, he's my favorite. And I love, you kind of have that similar body style, that sleek. George Strunk: Yeah, Blair's was definitely an influence in Delaware Rivers. Oh, yeah. Totally different than, you know, English. There's an English up there, there's some Delaware Rivers up there. Katie Burke: Yeah, that's like, it's such a, because it's, You get that fat body, if you go that way, it gets all like those little fat body Chesapeake Bay ones. And then, but up here is these, those sleek. I love those sleek. George Strunk: The form on them are just- I like the Delaware and the Barnegat birds. Yeah. You can't beat, it's hard to beat a Horner, you know, Blair. Katie Burke: Yeah. The form on them is just, you don't even really need paint on those Blair. George Strunk: No, not really. Katie Burke: They're just so sleek. Yeah. I see that. I like that. It's kind of got a, I don't know, though, because the form's so delicate. It's not delicate, but it's just got streamlined. It's a much more streamlined form to a bird. There's not a lot of fuss about it. But then it's pretty technical. I don't know, but I'm guessing it's pretty complicated to make it that way. Is it? How thin are those things? George Strunk: What do you mean, they help hollow down? The horners were hollowed a lot more, I think. Katie Burke: Yeah, because they're so light. George Strunk: When you take one apart, even Horner, he used a small little gouge and he took his time hollowing. They're really light, but it depends, you know. Katie Burke: Yeah. George Strunk: I think Schuertz probably made a ton more and probably a little quicker hauling them out. Katie Burke: Yeah. And I guess it really just depends like what were they making them for, right? If they're hunting with them or if they're selling them or if they're, you know, like what they're doing with them. And that all depends on the guy, right? George Strunk: And what their job was like. Schuertz and Horner and English and all, they weren't doing real… They weren't doing… They weren't worried about decorative stuff too much. Katie Burke: No. And they were just… I don't even know that much about them. Were they guiding and hunting over their decors, or were they selling them mostly? Or was it a mixture between all of them? George Strunk: Well, Schwarz was a house painter. Katie Burke: He was a house painter, yeah, that's right. George Strunk: So, you know, I guess off-season he would make them, or maybe all year, I don't know. Katie Burke: Yeah, we don't know that much about them. George Strunk: No, there's guys that know more about them than me. Katie Burke: Yeah, I like… And I should know, but I like, they all blend together, because they all have like the same generic job description. It's like house painter, or carpenter, or yeah, fisherman. George Strunk: I think they did whatever they had to to make a living. Katie Burke: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, because I always, and I, so I can't ever remember which ones do which, because I'm like, they're all like basically the same. George Strunk: Probably all house painters. House needed painting. Katie Burke: Yeah, house painting, yeah. They were carpenters because they had to build something because they needed it. George Strunk: Yeah, and they were just functional tools back then, hunting, you know. Katie Burke: All right, this is a good time to take a quick break. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back. I'm still here with George Strunk, and now this is the best part because we're in a studio. So, George. What you got here? Tell us, describe. Okay, so what? Describe it. Describe it. Okay, because we got some people who would probably just be listening to it. So describe it. George Strunk: It's a duck body. What kind of wood? This is Jersey cedar. So I use mostly northern white cedar. Katie Burke: Okay, why? Is there any particular reason? George Strunk: I seem to like that a little better, but I like Jersey Cedar when it's a good piece. This is a pretty good piece. What makes it a good piece? It's soft. The wood is hard and soft, you know. It varies a lot, so when you get a nice piece, it's easier to chop. Okay. Go for it. All right. Katie Burke: So how long did it take you to get that sure with those strokes? George Strunk: I don't know. I've been doing this since I started, so I'm pretty used to it. But you always got to be careful because one bad move and this could go really bad. Katie Burke: So like, I mean, I'm guessing early on you'd have more where you'd make a bad move and then it's done. George Strunk: Yeah, I've messed up a lot of stuff. You know, you mess up when you start. Not too much lately. We'll see. Katie Burke: I mean… What would this be? What's the in bird on here? George Strunk: This is just going to be a Barnegat-style black duck. Okay. So, it's pretty easy to chop. There's no raised wings on it. You can pretty much get in there and get the tail pretty close to where you want it. It's gonna be like a Schwarz or a Horner style. Pretty simple birds. So you can get it pretty close. Then you'd, you know, and afterwards I'll go in with a spoke shave and gouges and, you know, but. And just smooth it up. Yeah, you can get it pretty close with this. Katie Burke: So you've already hollowed that bird out. George Strunk: I hollow them all first. Katie Burke: Okay, yeah, because you can see the seam down the side, like so. George Strunk: You've already hollowed it out. A lot of guys carve them, then split them and hollow them, take them apart and hollow them, but I've gotten to where I can get it pretty close. Unless I want to get something super, super light, but I mean, if you start with a light piece, you know. You don't have to do as much. It's not going to be that much lighter, so. Katie Burke: So do you have a pattern for this, or do you just like? George Strunk: Yeah, I have a pattern for different, you know. Katie Burke: When you're more consistent, like one of the ones you do more often. George Strunk: Yeah. Katie Burke: Do you make a pattern for every decoy you do, or do you just, are just the ones that you do more often? George Strunk: The ones I do more often, sometimes I'll just draw them right on. Right on there? Yeah. I mean, I, and I, you know, even the top I'll draw, because I can get pretty close to it. Yeah. Then I can always change it a little. You can make it a little thinner. Just going in like that. You know, there's no perfect set pattern. There is and there isn't. Katie Burke: Are you ever like working on one and then get inspired for another one and just like stop and draw a pattern or like? George Strunk: Oh yeah, all the time. All the time? Sometimes I never finish. Katie Burke: And then you never finish them. George Strunk: Yeah. Katie Burke: There's a lot of stuff. I don't want to do that one anymore. I got something new to do. George Strunk: Yeah, and sometimes I'll, like some of these minis, they've been sitting there for a long time. I just haven't painted them. They're done. Yeah. But, um, so I don't know. Katie Burke: Just haven't felt like going back to them again. George Strunk: At this point, I like to do what I feel like doing. Katie Burke: Yeah, I mean, there's no reason why. Yeah. Yeah, okay. George Strunk: And somebody came up with a suggestion for one of these, and that's when I tried it, and I thought, well, I'll give it a try. Katie Burke: Okay, cool. I figured that, because early on, of course, you're having to do way more orders and stuff, right? But now, at this point, people are just buying your stuff. Yeah. If they like it, you can sell it. George Strunk: If you don't feel like making something, it's probably not going to come out that great. Katie Burke: Yeah, that makes sense. George Strunk: But yeah, in the beginning you do a lot of orders. Katie Burke: Are there any that come to mind that like, you got that inspiration, you remember like certain ones that, you have favorites? George Strunk: Yeah, I like Black Ducks, Teal. Katie Burke: But is there any like certain ones that you like, that you remember and are favorites? George Strunk: Not really. I like whatever I'm doing at the moment. Katie Burke: Yeah, and then you're done? George Strunk: Pretty much, yeah. I move on. Katie Burke: Well, that's probably a very healthy way to look at it. Yeah. George Strunk: You gotta like what you're doing at the moment. Katie Burke: You like the work more than you like the end product. George Strunk: Yeah, I don't, you know, it's all about making it at the time. When I'm done with that, I go to something else. Katie Burke: Okay. George Strunk: You know. Katie Burke: Yeah, that makes sense. George Strunk: And I change it up. I'll do decoys. I'll do something like this. I'll do minis. No more swans. Katie Burke: No more swans? Why? George Strunk: Too big. They're too big. I'm repairing that for somebody. What about geese? Would you do geese? Yeah, I would do geese. But, you know. Katie Burke: You haven't done too many geese, have you? George Strunk: I've done a pretty lot. Katie Burke: Yeah. You have seen a Canada of yours. George Strunk: Yeah. Yeah, there was just one reason. Katie Burke: Is there anything you've never done? George Strunk: I thought I never did a coot, but one showed up at auction a couple weeks ago. Katie Burke: You don't remember doing it? I don't remember. George Strunk: I did it, but I didn't remember. Other than that, yeah, there's some things, but odd stuff. You know, like, I never did any stuff foreign, like Australian ducks. Yeah. Katie Burke: Have you ever done, like, a cinnamon teal? George Strunk: Argentina. I've done cinnamons, yeah. Not a lot. Katie Burke: Yeah, that would be the one that I would pick. That's an odd one. George Strunk: Yeah, yeah. So I do mostly stuff I know. Like there's an Argentine teal or something. I don't know. Katie Burke: Yeah. Why would you? I mean, I guess if someone really wanted it, they're paying you enough money. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. George Strunk: Maybe not. Katie Burke: Yeah. All right. So how far down will you get this done? And then will you move over here? George Strunk: Well, I'll move over to this when I get pretty close to now. Katie Burke: You can get it pretty close. George Strunk: Well, I also, sometimes I take a gouge and push it against here. Katie Burke: What do you mean? George Strunk: And clean up. Katie Burke: Okay. George Strunk: Like, I don't know if you can see this. Katie Burke: How old is the stump you use here? The what? How old is the stump? George Strunk: That's my second or third stump. Katie Burke: I don't remember. That's not that many stumps over a long period of time. George Strunk: I got this when I started carving, and that's what I make all my weights on. Katie Burke: Okay. And then, how old is this hat, your little hatchet here? George Strunk: This is from almost when I started carving. I bought this for, I bought just the head of it for three dollars down in Goshen. Really? New York Avenue, yeah. No, this one I bought for a dollar coming back from Easton one year. Oh, really? I just found the head of it. I have another axe. I've only had two. One's back here. This is the one I bought in Goshen, and they're just small. This is a Plum, and that's a Germantown hatchet. Katie Burke: Would you, do you, I mean, you probably just primarily use this one. Is there a reason why you would even switch over to that one? Or just, I mean, I would think it'd just be preference. George Strunk: I got this one. This one seems a little smaller. I don't know. Yeah. Katie Burke: They're just small. I would think it's just like a favorite brush, like when you paint, like you just, there's just ones you like to work with. George Strunk: There's just no need to get another one. Yeah. I've had this for, well, this one's probably 40 years I've had it or so. This one's maybe 30. So far, you know, who wears out a hatchet? Katie Burke: Let me just sharpen it and then move on. I mean, everything you have, I mean, it's all pretty soft for the most part, too. Like, okay, so then you take the gouge. George Strunk: Yeah, I would face in here a little more, but. Right, for the camera. Then I can clean, I'll see. I would clean it up a little like this. And then, you know, after you clean it up, you can get in here and with the spokeshave. Katie Burke: Yeah, and get it smoothed out. George Strunk: Yeah, and you can get pretty close with that, and then you can define your tail a little more when you get down. Katie Burke: How old's your spokeshave? George Strunk: How old's my spokeshave? I don't know. These are old Stanley spokeshaves. I got like three of them. Yeah. You used to be able to pick them up really cheap. Katie Burke: Yeah, you use a small one. When I went to Pete, he uses a big one. Oh my goodness. It's tiny. George Strunk: For detail work, you can use this and really get in tight for little stuff. Okay. And then you got this. Katie Burke: Okay. George Strunk: So this is nice because you can move it around. and spoke shave. So I do it all different ways, just whatever. Whatever I feel like at the time. What's that gonna be? It's gonna be a Delaware River Black Duck. Okay. Cross-wing. This is a Barnegat Black Duck. Could be a Moward. Katie Burke: Yeah, yeah, they can be the same. George Strunk: And then sometimes I'll get in like this. so you can clean up under the tail. So I'll use whatever works the best. Katie Burke: Yeah, that's cool. George Strunk: You want to try it? Katie Burke: Okay. You serious? Yeah. But be careful. I will be careful. All right, I'll let you talk me through it first before I do it. Big liability here. It's not a liability. I'm not gonna sue you. George Strunk: Wait a minute. All right, tell me how to hold this thing. Just make sure, keep your knees out of the way. All right. Just give it a little tap. Katie Burke: Like here? George Strunk: Nah, you're gonna hit it right about here, I guess. Right there? Just give it a little slight tap. Katie Burke: I'm nervous to like, to take a hunk out of it. Okay, no, I won't do it. George Strunk: I won't like take a huge hunk out of it. Look at it. You can't mess it up. I'll make it a teal if you take too much. Katie Burke: I'll make it a teal. It'll be like the thinnest teal you've ever seen. George Strunk: So that's not that hard. You just gotta keep your hands out of the way. Katie Burke: Yeah. Okay. It's just like cooking. Yeah. Don't chop your thumb off. Yep. Okay. All right. So let's move into painting. Do like we did before, just in case anyone's not watching. Kind of describe our scene here, what you got out here. George Strunk: I'm going to attempt to paint a green-winged teal, or part of it. Katie Burke: So you're going to start with the base paint. So what do you start? How do you start? What colors do you start with? How do you build up on it? George Strunk: I'm only gonna use raw umber, raw sienna, and white, and black, and white. Katie Burke: And you're using just oil paints, right? George Strunk: Just oils. So I'm gonna mix a little flat rust-oleum in with the white and the brown, the raw. Katie Burke: Okay, so why would you put in rust-oleum? George Strunk: Just to help it dry a little bit, just a dab. but mostly pure artist oils. So I'm gonna start. Katie Burke: Does it help thin it out as well? George Strunk: Nah, if you wanna thin it, you have to put a little, I keep a little drop of thinner on the palette. So I can just thin it with a little drop, just enough to make it move. I'll start with the primary. I'll just come in and paint that. Katie Burke: And you've already kind of laid out your… I did, yeah. Where your color patterns are and everything. George Strunk: It's just a basic layout. Katie Burke: Yeah. Like there's your speculum and where your wing hits. George Strunk: Right. So I usually paint the primaries, so then I can drag the secondary colors right through that color. And so… Katie Burke: How far will you get along in that section, like building wet on wet until you need to like stop, like you'll have to stop and dry? You won't go all the way to the detail. George Strunk: I can do a lot now. Katie Burke: Okay. What's your favorite part, carving or painting? George Strunk: I like it both. You like it both? I like whatever I'm doing at the time. I like painting. Katie Burke: So if I'm not here and you're painting, what's going on in here? Do you have something playing? George Strunk: What are you doing while you're— Either music or podcast or something. Probably one of your podcasts, maybe. Katie Burke: Do you really listen to my podcast? George Strunk: I do. I listen to a few of them. Katie Burke: Did you listen to Guy Taplin's? George Strunk: No, I didn't. I recommend you listen to that one. Katie Burke: I think you'll find that one interesting. That was a good one. I didn't even know who he was. No? Yeah, he actually emailed me. Oh, I don't know him, but I've heard of him. Yeah, he's over in England. George Strunk: He's in England, yeah. Katie Burke: Yeah. George Strunk: No, I'll have to do that. Maybe I'll do it today. Katie Burke: Yeah, I'll send it to you. I'll text it to you. George Strunk: So basically, I'll do that, and I'll blend it in a little. Katie Burke: I know— The dry brush? So you take a dry brush? It's dry, and it's— Oh, look. And it gives it that soft feather look. George Strunk: You gotta watch how much you blend it. And let me see. Then I'll put this other feather in. Katie Burke: And you've just got this memorized. George Strunk: You've done it so many times. I don't have to look at anything for teal. So then I can lay in, let me see, I'll lay in this, just some raw umber. Get these back feathers going. Katie Burke: If you are listening to this, you need to be not listening and watching. This is awesome. George Strunk: I can lay in some other feathers. So it's pretty basic flat brush. Katie Burke: Okay. George Strunk: We'll give you sort of a feather look. Katie Burke: Okay. I see where you're going now. Yeah. And you'll just kind of keep building on top of this. Yeah. George Strunk: And it's just kind of making it up. Making it up. But you know. But you've done it enough times. Knowing what I'm going for. And you need a little. Let's see. So I'm going to scratch paint the back. OK. Katie Burke: And so, I mean, like, because it's oils, like, I mean, obviously you couldn't, if you didn't like it, you couldn't quite, it's harder to fix, like, in the moment. I mean, you can a little bit, right? But, like, if you would just let it dry and… I mean, at this point, I could just wipe it off. Yeah, that's true. You can wipe it off. George Strunk: You know. Katie Burke: That was like, I remember learning that for the first time when I was like oil painting as a kid, that you could just like wipe it off. George Strunk: And I was like, what? If I messed it up right now, I could just wipe the whole thing off. But I'd have to probably prime it again. Katie Burke: Prime it again. George Strunk: So I'm just going to break it up. Maybe a little more. So I'm just getting it ready to scratch paint the back. Katie Burke: So you'll scratch paint it. And what do you use? Do you have a tool for scratch painting? George Strunk: I do. Katie Burke: Okay. George Strunk: You're going to see it in a minute. It's right there. Katie Burke: Okay. How long have you had a tool for scratch painting? Like I'm guessing they didn't always make those. You used to use something else probably for scratch painting. George Strunk: No, it's just a comb that I put on a dowel. Oh, so you make the… Yeah, these are just, they're little baby combs that I put on a dowel so I can use it like a brush. But I'll put a little highlight in the middle, so it isn't one basic color there. Katie Burke: Okay. George Strunk: And then you can lighten it up if you need to lighten it. lightly, very lightly blend it. When it gets a little sloppy, you gotta keep drying it. Katie Burke: Yeah, cause then it just kinda, you're mixing colors you don't want in. George Strunk: Right. You only want certain colors to run in. Katie Burke: You keep this pretty thin, like this is, you're keeping the paint pretty thin. George Strunk: Yeah, it's pretty thin. So I'll take this one, and start scratching it. Katie Burke: Yeah, and it gives it that texture, that feather. George Strunk: Yeah, you could do it thicker, but… And this is Delaware style, right? This is Delaware. It's a cross-winged teal. Katie Burke: Huh. George Strunk: And there's different ways to scratch it. You can do bigger loops or whatever. whatever you feel like a teal looks like. And I can get in with a smaller one and do… And you get that end of the feather. Some lines in there. Gotta keep this pretty dry, too. Katie Burke: Well, I'm guessing as you scratch, the paint builds up on that comb, so you need to go back. George Strunk: It does. Yeah. So I just keep a rag handy to clean it up. Katie Burke: I used to use, when I painted it, like white t-shirts that would like hang at the bottom. George Strunk: Oh yeah, I used… We don't throw any shirts away, do we? Yeah, they work really well for that. Katie Burke: They come out as rags. Yep. So it goes pretty quick if you… How much paint do you go through? Of any bad paint? Pretty lot. Yeah, I would think so. George Strunk: Yeah. Katie Burke: Yeah. George Strunk: Pretty basic, but looks complicated, but it's really not that complicated. Katie Burke: Well, I beg to differ. You've done it enough times that it's so second nature, it's not complicated, but anyone starting off, they have to learn how to do this. George Strunk: Yeah. So that's a little brown, I think, so I'm gonna put a little black in it. Then I usually come in from the bottom and blend it in. Now I could leave it like that and scratch it. I could put a little more white in it. Katie Burke: Yeah, come in the bottom, yeah. George Strunk: So I don't really pre-mix anything. Katie Burke: Okay, yeah. You just go as you, and you probably know that the colors are pretty well at this point, what you're getting. George Strunk: Yeah, there ain't that many colors. I'm only using like three colors, four colors, so. There's variations on a few colors. Katie Burke: Well, you build off the color that you have, right? Like you have three colors, but you're changing them with, you mix them together. Yeah, you're doing it. George Strunk: And then you could put feathers underneath to make it a little more interesting. What brush is this? Katie Burke: You just, yeah, use this bigger brush. George Strunk: This is called a big brush. Katie Burke: Yeah, it's called a big brush. This is a medium brush. That's a dry brush. Big one. George Strunk: So, see your colors underneath. It should make it more interesting when you scratch it. Katie Burke: You add some depth to it, yeah. And then you come in and you scratch. I'm guessing after you prime it, it doesn't matter the wood for painting it, right? Does wood type matter for painting, or is it just like once it's primed, it's whatever? George Strunk: No, this has a little bit of grain raised on it. Katie Burke: Is that, I'm guessing that, I guess that makes it more difficult with the scratch paint. George Strunk: No, I don't think so. I mean, I don't know, I guess I'm so used to it. Katie Burke: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. George Strunk: So if it's a little too brown, you can add a slight bit of black. So you can do a certain amount on this and then you get a… Wait for it to dry, right. Katie Burke: And oil, that's the thing. Oil takes a little time to dry. George Strunk: Yeah, but this will probably dry overnight enough to handle it. Katie Burke: And, okay, just so, like, this is a good question to ask, because, I mean, I know the answer, but maybe the audience. Why oil over acrylic? Because, like, so many people do paint with acrylic, but I think, obviously, oil, I think, is better. And can you, like, describe why? George Strunk: I think… It's, I like it better. I think it ages well. It gives, it'll, every, well you've seen these teal up here and those, those pintails that, that's not a artificial age. That's just from hunting with them for 10 or 15 years. Right. You know, so they, they change colors. They get a patina on them. Right. With the oils. Katie Burke: And is it easier to paint with the oils for you? George Strunk: I don't know. Katie Burke: Did you ever do acrylic ever? I've tried them, but I've never really… I always found the acrylic, I hated the way it dried so fast. George Strunk: Well, that's the other thing. I mean, even some of this, like the Ronin's dry super fast, and I only use it to prime and stuff like that. Katie Burke: Right, okay. George Strunk: And once in a while, I'll put a little drop in some of the slower drying oils, the tubes. But really, I only have some raw sienna that I use for priming. So I think if you prime in that, it helps the oils dry also. That's my theory. Katie Burke: I mean, again, you're working pretty thin, so that'll help it. Yeah. And of course, like, Right, these are darker birds, so people don't know, but white takes a lot longer to dry than black. You know, so it depends on what color your bird is. George Strunk: Yeah. Katie Burke: Is that why you also don't do swans? Because they're all white. George Strunk: They're hard to paint because they're all white, I think. Katie Burke: Well, because people, we've said this before in the podcast, but people don't realize, like, white isn't white. Like, it's not just white. George Strunk: No, they're not white. Katie Burke: Yeah, they're not actually white. George Strunk: No. See now, normally I would add a little rodents to this, because this color… Is it slower to dry? It's just not covering as much as I want. Katie Burke: That's what I was going to ask, because you can see the primer through it a little bit more. So you'd have to go back on top of that. George Strunk: A little shot of this. Katie Burke: Oh, it smells. George Strunk: This, can you spell it? I know it's strong. So if I add that. Katie Burke: So what kind of paint is this? That's Ronin's. What is Ronin's? What does that mean? I don't know. George Strunk: It's just a Japan color. It's got Japan dryer in it. Katie Burke: I don't even know what that means. George Strunk: It dries faster. Katie Burke: Japan color. Yeah. So is it like, where do you buy it? George Strunk: Like just like a… There's a few places now, what you call it, Vincenti's have it down in Maryland, Haverdy Grace. So I'll let that, but you know, I could put a little, a little something in it before I, it's gonna need the dots. Katie Burke: Yeah, it's gonna need the dots. George Strunk: So at this point, I would probably stop with this one and let it dry. Let it dry. Katie Burke: And you paint the head last? George Strunk: Yeah, I always paint the head last. I like to hold it by the head and the tail. That makes sense, yeah. I usually paint that and the tail last. Now I'll go over that too. Sometimes it's hard to cover black. I'll do the speculums, there's a black stripe in there, and then all the primary detail. But that's basically how I started. Katie Burke: You know, already you've got a lot of feather detail, and it's got that signature softness of yours. George Strunk: Yeah, and once it… I would let it sit a couple days and come back, and I could almost finish it. Katie Burke: How many times do you have to come back on a bird to paint it? George Strunk: A few, because I've got to wait until everything dries, until I do the head and the face. Then I'll prime this out. I won't go… It's got a reddish head, so it'll take a while. I'll prime it out with a little… Even I put a little red with this to prime it out. I'll put a little red in it. Katie Burke: Yeah. George Strunk: Thanks. Not a lot of colors. Katie Burke: Well, I mean, most ducks are pretty brown. Yeah. So, and then I'm guessing a hen, does a hen take you longer than a drake just because of all the feather detail? George Strunk: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Katie Burke: Yeah. I mean, that's like, you know, that's the only thing I love about decoys is like, you know, the hen in real life is like the duller one, but in decoys, they're usually the prettier of the decoy because of all the… Now they get rid of my pal. And then you throw that away. Well, George, okay, before we go, is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanna mention or anything like that before we go? George Strunk: I don't think so. Katie Burke: Yeah, all right. Well, thanks for doing this with me. All right, thank you. Yeah, all right. Thanks, George, for coming on the show. Thanks to our producer, Chris Isaac, and thanks to you, our listener, for Sporing Wetlands and Waterfowl Conservation.