Latest / Authentic Living / Navigating Tech Challenges and Building Remote Connections with Sabrina Shafer

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Navigating Tech Challenges and Building Remote Connections with Sabrina Shafer · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi.
• 0:37
  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:38
  I'm a mental health and wellness specialist and a corporate leadership executive coach.
• 0:43
  My new book, return on relationships, launching on June 10 2023, introduces the concept of
• 0:51
  return on relationship a new metric for business growth.
• 0:55
  Grab a copy.
• 0:56
  Let me walk you through how to be a better leader and provide you with exclusive tools to
• 1:00
  guide you in building your authentic leadership legacy.
• 1:03
  You can find the link in the show notes to pre order your copy today.
• 1:07
  Hope you enjoy.
• 1:09
  Our interview last week was so good that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 1:14
  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 1:18
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
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  amazing conversation.
• 1:26
  Hi, everyone.
• 1:26
  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 1:28
  Thanks for tuning in again to the today to authenticate living with Roxanne.
• 1:32
  Today, I have a a colleague that I think I've just recently met.
• 1:35
  We've been spending a lot time together Sabrina Shaver.
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  Sabrina, has a quite a fascinating background that intrigued me, and, we recently did an
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  event for International Women's Day with, women, younger, women, I would say, mostly
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  across size and sectors of companies that were talking about work life balance, which was
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  actually quite amazing.
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  So her background is she's not only a corporate litigator, but she's a behave she's studying
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  behavior analysis, and I'm gonna be intrigued by that story about what kind of got her into
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  doing what she does.
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  And and she works with teams.
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  She's working to figure out what's most autonomous ways that teams can work together
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  and she's predominantly in the tech sector.
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  So Sabrina, thanks so much.
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  For taking the time to spend with us today.
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  Oh, Roxanne.
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  You are wonderful.
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  Thank you so much for having me.
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  Like you said, we've been doing a couple different speaking engagements together lately.
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  And each topic is more riveting than the next.
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  This is something that couldn't be more relevant right now.
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  It's a passion of both of ours.
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  So I'm excited to dive in.
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  It'll be fun.
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  Exactly.
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  Now let's talk a little bit about, we know, presently in the world, there's so much going
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  on.
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  Obviously, the tech sector, has been gravely impacted.
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  I think there's a lot of, layoffs that have happened are gonna continue to happen, but
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  obviously there's amazing things also happening in the tech sector.
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  What are you seeing out there in reference to, kind of the pulse of the tech sector in
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  reference So to all these changes that are occurring?
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  You know, it's, it's unlike anything I've seen in in the pandemic certainly helped accelerate
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  so much of this.
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  You know, we went through this hiring craze where, you know, CRO of giant company would
• 3:32
  call me and say you'll never believe how much they just poach this guy from me about, you
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  know, you'll never believe how much this bonus is of these people they poach So we went this
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  it went through this insane hiring craze to now these mass layoffs.
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  And again, some we support some of the largest organizations in the world.
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  You know?
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  And so we get an inside perspective that maybe you don't always get to see and, or at least
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  until it's much later.
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  So there's still plenty more to come.
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  And, you know, between supply chain issues, manufacturing issues, obviously different wars
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  and and geopolitical conflict is maybe a safe way to say it.
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  You know, there's a lot of unrest and uncertainty And I think, in fact, I was just
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  reading some, you know, some research on this literally just yesterday.
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  You know, what people are looking for now our resilient teams helping retain the talent that
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  they do have because you have to do the same, if not more work with less.
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  So now you not only do you have a demoted team, which one of my sort of mini expertise is
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  around motivation.
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  So you've got a demotivated team who have to do more with less They're all remote.
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  They don't feel connected, or maybe they feel semi connected.
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  And it's a lot, and they're worried about their job.
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  So now they've got all kinds of hormones triggered and You know, we're it it's just a
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  it's a it's a it's a mind mass.
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  And so, from a team's perspective, from a leadership perspective, even as folks who are
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  who are teammates who are influencing the culture of their teams, people wanna feel like
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  they're being invested in.
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  Enablement has never been more important.
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  You know, here's the other interesting thing is the tech industry is is rapidly moving to
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  solution sales.
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  We're not talking about, hey.
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  Look at this really cool new widget that spins even faster than this widget that we sold you
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  last year.
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  Or, hey, it's it's tech refresh time, and you've had that stuff for 3 years.
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  Let's get you a new box.
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  Now you're talking boxes and wires and software and It's it's incredibly complex.
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  And now not only are you selling to IT people, you're selling to OT to the business side of
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  things.
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  So you have brand new relationships you need to make who have totally different interests, and
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  you're worried about your job.
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  It's a total cluster, but in in these kinds of times comes an enormous amount of opportunity
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  if you can leverage it.
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  If you can get on, you know, if you can get a hold of it, And so part of it is, you know, if
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  we can enable our teams and show them, look, we're invested in you, you're important to us,
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  it also equips them with the right skill so that they can be successful.
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  Sometimes I say to my team, like, if I've got a salesperson who maybe hasn't had a sale in a
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  minute, I'll say you just need to win.
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  As humans, sometimes we just need a win.
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  And so I've noticed that the more you can invest in your people and enablement probably
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  one of the strongest ways you can do that right now because it can be remote.
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  It can be funny.
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  You can have prizes.
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  You can do gamification.
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  You can be silly and still learn.
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  It kinda ties in all those different pieces while still kind of telling them without
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  telling them.
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  I'm invested in you your worth investing, so your job is a little bit safer.
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  Those are the kinds of things that I'm seeing really work when it comes to retaining talent.
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  And nurturing a culture for growth and more
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  success.
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  So lately, obviously, I'm sure you've dealt with some companies where they've had massive
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  layoffs and and and and they've, you know, they've got these teams and this peep they're
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  worried probably about retaining who's who's left.
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  Obviously, I often say that, you know, you have to take care of as much of the people that are
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  left behind as the people that are about to go or who have left.
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  Right?
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  You really have to address that.
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  So tell me some of the things that you've seen that people have done poorly.
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  At this time, and some things that people really like you talked a lot about enablement.
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  Hybrid, you know, is is hybrid an option again, or is it people mostly stay remote or how are
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  they kind of?
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  I often say we're human beings.
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  We need connection.
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  We need we need that fun.
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  We need to be able to, like, to, you know, just to laugh and giggle about nothing and not talk
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  about work sometimes because work always gets done.
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  So what are some of the things that people aren't doing or haven't done so well that
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  you've seen and some of the things that they should start considering?
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  Because from what I'm hearing, kind of this lag from, you know, with with things with the
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  recession and all the other things that's happening globally, it may be a couple of years
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  before we gotta kinda get back to a a space of kind of consistency.
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  I think it'll be a minute.
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  I do think it'll be a minute.
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  And I think we'll see some rollercoasting.
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  We'll see some peaks and, you know, what I think this is not gonna be a a steady downward
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  state.
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  I think we're gonna, you know, see ebbs and flows.
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  Least, maybe that's a little polyenna of me, but that's what I anticipate.
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  Some things I'm seeing, like, absolutely don't do You know, there's this there's this narrow,
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  piece of the IT industry, and and they tend to be more your legacy leaders.
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  That just don't believe in this idea of culture or, you know, they're like, oh, it's too I have
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  a very, very funny, very close friend of mine at AWS.
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  He's a leader over there.
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  He's just a funny act.
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  Just a funny human in general.
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  And he calls me up, and he's like, ah, these millennials and you guys with your, you know,
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  your beers, you know, on tap in the office and your what are those balls, those yoga balls
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  that kids sit on and everything?
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  And I'm like, you know, You kinda do that stuff, and and he's one of these wonderful
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  people that you can kind of banter with.
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  He'll be open minded enough to kinda hear you out.
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  And I love, you know, I love that kind of conversation And so, you know, we were talking
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  about it.
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  And he's like, okay.
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  So maybe I do see some value, but I think if you're so close minded that you go, this
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  feeling stuff, this hippie dippy trippy stuff is not for me.
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  It's not for my organization.
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  You're missing out.
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  You're really missing out.
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  I had a mentor tell me years ago, and it will always stay with me.
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  Never forget the human element.
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  That applies to everything you do with your launching a product, launching a campaign,
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  leading a team, leading a company, leading a family, anything and everything you do, never
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  forget the human element.
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  And it's it's so brilliant, and it's so simple.
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  And I think once you leave that out, people will begin to leave you.
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  They they want to feel connected.
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  Now you you asked a brilliant question.
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  Well, how do you get there then?
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  Well, that's so much easier said than done.
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  In my experience, again, I'm one human out of 8,000,000,000, so ticket for what it's worth
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  statistically, I guess, not much.
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  But You know, I I find that you have to get a pulse for what kind of a team you have.
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  We have a very, independent and asynchronous team.
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  They are all over the world.
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  In fact, I have very few people who live in, like, close pockets other than, like, in New
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  York and Chicago and Idaho.
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  I Ironically, we've got a ton of people in Idaho right now.
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  But, you know, some in UK kind of stuff, but they're they're so they're such a, you know,
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  dispersed team It's nearly impossible for us to get together, and a lot of organizations still
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  have a travel ban.
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  You know, many of the largest tech companies that we support have a travel ban right now.
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  So, you know, get the pulse.
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  Some like doing happy hours, you know, if you're supporting a team that maybe there's
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  people were sober on the team or maybe whatever.
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  It just depends.
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  Maybe you did something different.
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  Like, they've done different cooking things and stuff like that.
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  That's not my team per se.
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  So we have these fun little traditions that we do around continuum.
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  You know, we always say we love Mondays.
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  I personally as a human, love Mondays.
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  It's when I have my most energy.
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  It's hard for me to sleep in on Mondays, like, right around 5 AM.
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  I'm like, let's go.
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  5, you know, 5 o'clock on Friday.
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  I'm beat, but 5 AM on Monday, I'll never be sharper for the week.
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  You know?
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  And so whenever anything good happens, we say, what is it Monday or something?
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  So we have all these, like, little inside jokes in our team that make us feel connected.
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  Like, it's it's us.
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  You know, it's just us.
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  And, the other one, like, another example of something kind of just us that we do is we have
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  this fun fact Friday.
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  And everybody just says some random fact about themselves.
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  And it can be hilarious.
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  The stuff that these people put out there.
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  And I remember, maybe last Friday or 2 Fridays ago, I had just forgotten about it.
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  And somebody said, what are we not doing fun fact Friday?
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  And this is one of those, like, crabby engineered types where you're like, you hate
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  this.
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  Right?
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  And he's like, no.
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  Where's where's fun fact Friday?
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  And then another, very, very serious engineer, you know, she and I were on a call with a
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  client And she's like, I gotta tell you we have this fun fact Friday, and this came out.
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  So, again, it it's, finding things that work for your team, We're very humor based teams, so
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  we love to send out silly jokes and things like that.
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  We also tend to be a very clean team, but some can, you know, take I would take a pulse of
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  where your team is at, make it anonymous.
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  I'm known for doing polls.
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  I love polls.
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  I love knowing where are people at.
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  And ask open ended questions.
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  What's something that would make you feel more supported?
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  What do you feel like you're missing from this team?
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  What's something that, you know, would be kinda fun that you think we need to do.
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  And I I think that also shows I trust you, and I care about you.
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  And I would really like to sure that what I'm doing supports you.
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  It's it's almost like the business love language.
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  You know, what's your business love language?
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  And so if you're not familiar with that, But as a Gary Chapman, right, I think that was he's
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  the author, wrote a book that outlines these 4 or 5 love languages and, So, anyway, so I I
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  think that there's love languages in business.
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  So if you can identify how your team feels most connected and supported, That's how you can get
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  them to really be able to communicate work to work together better, communicate better
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  together, trust each other more, and be able to say things like, hey.
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  I screwed up.
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  Or, hey.
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  I have no idea how to handle this.
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  Can you help me?
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  Right.
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  For some the main thing that they need to feel is safe.
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  Regardless.
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  Right?
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  And and I all I'm almost cognizant because obviously with companies, you're busy and you
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  go from project to the project, that, you know, you actually slow down to reflect Right.
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  And honor the time about the project that you've because obviously there's probably a
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  couple kind of knocking at the door that you need to get to to really sometimes just
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  recognize some of the basic things that you've done, like, to celebrate, have, you know, some
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  kind of celebration or to highlight who's done what.
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  Like, if somebody's hooked up in a way, maybe it's a not a skill that they're very good at,
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  and you really see that they've excelled, you know, in a particular area.
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  The those simple simple things means so much.
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  Cause the person may not think that anybody stops to realize, wow, you know, This person's
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  not so good with this, but they they they pull it together.
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  And the fact that even you as a leader or even that somebody else within their peers, even if
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  it's not coming from, say, someone like you, like the CEO, but coming from allowing creating
• 15:00
  a space or the context where people say, hey, by the way, Sabrina, I realize that you're, you
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  know, maybe not so microscopic with X Y Z, but I saw that you did this and this and this on
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  this project.
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  Wow.
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  How did you make it happen?
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  Right?
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  To allow that person also to share their space and to say, you know, this is what happened for
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  me it's all actually kinda helped me out and they were on the phone with me and it really
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  allows that that element, so like you said, of cross pollination of, you know, that we're
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  we're we're good people.
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  Right?
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  And that we all step up.
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  And, yeah, sometimes it's not so pretty when things are going well.
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  But we always we also buy it, and we always, you know, support each other in a way that gets
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  us to the to to the endpoint that we need to.
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  And I think that's something that I know as as a, you know, a leader myself in the various
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  roles I've played or just for the really, really good leaders that I've interviewed for
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  my books.
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  That they they they consistently in some way, stopping to reflect.
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  Yeah.
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  How is it that I am recognizing others?
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  Because I may be the type that's so quick that I move on to certain things, but, you know, it
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  may be that the person doesn't wanna be called out in the meeting, But, you know, if you send
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  them, you know, something like a favorite X Y Z, you know, coupon for something or send them
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  a nice email, they're better with that, and that keeps them connected.
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  So, like, to your point, what's the pulse of who's around you and what are you doing to
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  ensure that everybody is feeling good in their lane.
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  Right.
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  And the things that you reinforce or point out to the whole team, like, hey.
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  Julia did this great thing or guess what Mark did yesterday or whatever.
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  If you can tie it to something that they think they're even decent at, it'll mean more to
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  them.
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  There's a lot of science behind that, but it also shows the rest of the team what's
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  important to you.
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  It sets the tone for this is what we stand for.
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  This is what we stand for.
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  And, I just recently, you know, we had, a client needed our help on something.
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  It was kind of a mess.
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  You know, they but they were trying to also get a promotion at the same time, so we're trying
• 17:07
  to make sure that we could make them look as great as possible while cleaning up this mess
• 17:12
  behind the scenes that Another team.
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  It was just got very complicated.
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  That's why they pulled us in was to uncomplicate it.
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  So, anyway, so, So, you know, one of the one of the folks in our team was up really late
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  working on this stuff and was trying to collaborate with the client.
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  And so the next morning, you know, I'm seeing emails going and forth at, like, 11 o'clock at
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  night.
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  And and we are very I mean, I don't check email on Saturday Sunday.
• 17:35
  You will not get me.
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  If it's an emergency, you gotta text me because I will not see your email.
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  We are very and it's very important to me that I set that example.
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  Like, no, you need family time.
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  We've gotta shut off at some point.
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  So it's pretty rare for someone to be working that late.
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  Not that we set hours.
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  For the most part, I'd go look.
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  You're an adult.
• 17:51
  Figure it out.
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  If you wanna email it 4 AM or 4 PM, you know, as long as it's done, do it.
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  But, anyway, so I saw that back and forth, and I reached out to the team, and it was a plug
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  for that person.
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  And then how honored I was that we've establish ourselves to be this kind of an advisor that
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  these these are the kinds of problems we're helping people solve that they can come to us
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  with their biggest problem saying I really want this promotion, this other team that I'm
• 18:16
  connected to, screwed it up.
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  I can't make them look bad, but I also can't look bad myself.
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  Can you help me fix it?
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  And without a gripe, without anything we go, no problem.
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  You wanna talk at 9 o'clock at night?
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  You got it.
• 18:27
  That that as a team we represent that that we are servant leaders and that we show up a 100%
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  for their betterment.
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  And in return, of course, I mean, anybody who's watched or heard anything that I've ever done,
• 18:41
  I quote this a billion times, but Warren Buffett said this years ago, love is an
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  interesting thing.
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  The more you give, the more you get back.
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  And I think that applies to business ten folds if you can really look in in Sanford
• 18:54
  Leadership.
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  If you can really look and say, okay.
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  This is what we do.
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  This is what we stand for.
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  And if your compliments or your recognition can acknowledge that for the greater team, I think
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  that could have a pretty significant, you know, punch to it as well.
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  It's it's more of a show than tell, which I think can be even more powerful for teams.
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  And another part to it too is, even when things aren't going well, the way the the leader
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  approaches it is is to become so, so key.
• 19:24
  Right?
• 19:24
  So, yeah, things that are like, you know, maybe there's things that are, you know, off kilter
• 19:30
  and you're off and you know that there's a lot of moving parts and how they approach it.
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  Becomes vital.
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  Right?
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  Because if you're like, go after someone or a couple of people because it's not happening,
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  everybody else on that team is looking and saying, woah.
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  I better not take a risk.
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  I better not, you know, try that new thing because what if it fails?
• 19:52
  So I think on the counter set to to what you're saying about highlighting everybody, but it
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  it's their it's also the the way they approach just generally people with, like you said, I'm
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  gonna say love and respect that we are all flawed.
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  We all make mistakes, and we are all capable of it, but kind of what can we learn from it and
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  the approach of the leader in that space really, really makes a difference.
• 20:17
  Yeah.
• 20:18
  Yeah.
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  Couldn't agree more.
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  It's And I I, you know, in in law, they teach you, you know, show don't tell.
• 20:25
  I can't tell the jury while they well, he didn't murder him.
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  You know?
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  That doesn't work.
• 20:29
  You have to show with evidence and and the way our brains work, you know, that's very
• 20:34
  effective.
• 20:35
  So by doing something like that, you're telling your team You know, this is a safe spot.
• 20:39
  You you're okay to try new things here.
• 20:41
  Or to your point, your words, words matter, your words could be saying this is not so safe.
• 20:48
  You cannot try new things here, or you cannot come to me, or you cannot blah blah blah blah.
• 20:52
  So especially as, You know, again, words matter, especially as you're choosing how you
• 20:58
  wanna influence your team, you have to be pretty intentional about those things.
• 21:02
  Because the impact is much bigger than we realize.
• 21:06
  So, Sabrina, I know we're almost a time, but what I want to I would like you to speak to any
• 21:12
  CEOs, either in this tech sector or just you know, people that are going through, we're all
• 21:20
  going through the same things in in in the financial time at present.
• 21:23
  And kind of things would you tell them to what might be 2 or 3 top things they should
• 21:29
  consider, to get their teams through, the bit of the uncertain times that we're already in
• 21:37
  it, but that we're gonna continue good to go through in the next little while.
• 21:41
  Specific to teams, I think you you you have to sit down and reflect.
• 21:46
  I call it an investment block, and I believe strongly that if it's not in your calendar.
• 21:51
  It's not gonna happen, or it's not gonna be intentional.
• 21:54
  Sit down and block out hours on your calendar.
• 21:58
  And do not let them move and say, what are we gonna stand for?
• 22:03
  What's the vision?
• 22:04
  How are we gonna get there?
• 22:05
  Now no longer the days, of course, for a 5 10 year business plan, but you can at least say
• 22:10
  this is you can paint the picture for your team.
• 22:13
  And I think, you know, I I I kinda think of this as like a child.
• 22:17
  If you If you stick a child at night in the middle of an open field, they're terrified.
• 22:22
  But if you put up a fence, maybe they feel a little safer.
• 22:26
  If you put up a a house and a roof and, you know, some toys in there.
• 22:31
  All of a sudden, they feel incredibly safe.
• 22:33
  People need boundaries.
• 22:35
  They need direction and structure to feel safe.
• 22:38
  It's just sort of innate in us.
• 22:40
  And, I think as a leader, the best thing you can do is create safe boundaries and a vision
• 22:46
  for your team to go.
• 22:47
  This is where we're going.
• 22:48
  This is what we stand for.
• 22:50
  Yep.
• 22:51
  Times are bad because by the way, you should not lie to your team.
• 22:54
  I think that's a different form of gaslighting, and I think it's very dangerous for leaders
• 22:58
  say, no.
• 22:59
  Everything's great.
• 22:59
  And you're like, well, we don't have sales for the last 12 months.
• 23:02
  What do we do about that?
• 23:03
  You know?
• 23:04
  No.
• 23:04
  Everything's not great, but I got it.
• 23:06
  Here's what we're gonna do.
• 23:07
  John, you're doing this.
• 23:09
  By the way, pull in your team.
• 23:10
  I am not I've never been I never want to be the smartest in the room.
• 23:14
  If I am, I'm doing a lot of things wrong.
• 23:17
  You you built your team for a reason.
• 23:19
  John, you're doing this.
• 23:21
  Jamal, you're doing this.
• 23:22
  Tamara, you're doing this.
• 23:24
  This is how we're gonna get out of this problem because we've built this incredible team, and
• 23:28
  this is what they're each gonna do.
• 23:29
  These are the expectations that we're gonna get there.
• 23:31
  This is how we're gonna work together.
• 23:33
  This is the kind of expectation that I have and then live it.
• 23:37
  I think it's very easy to to to say something, to bark something, but then not to do it.
• 23:42
  You know, the people to say, hey.
• 23:43
  Work Life balance, but then they call you, you know, at 5 o'clock on a Saturday.
• 23:48
  You know?
• 23:48
  Exactly.
• 23:49
  Exactly.
• 23:50
  So no work life balance then.
• 23:52
  Okay.
• 23:52
  So just kidding.
• 23:53
  You know?
• 23:54
  Yeah.
• 23:54
  So I think you've got it.
• 23:55
  And then the second part is live it.
• 23:56
  I think that's the part that builds trust.
• 23:59
  You can paint a beautiful vision, but if you don't follow through, you're only halfway there
• 24:04
  at best.
• 24:05
  You know?
• 24:06
  So I would say the the top 2 things is be very intentional about your vision, how you're gonna
• 24:12
  get there, who's gonna help you get there, be very clear in your communication, and make it a
• 24:18
  team effort.
• 24:19
  And then to live it.
• 24:20
  You know, practice what you preach.
• 24:22
  Make sure that you're doing that.
• 24:24
  And then other than that, like I like we talked about earlier, get a pulse on your team.
• 24:29
  I just feel uncomfortable about this sort of preaching from the ivory tower.
• 24:33
  It feels disconnected just in talking about it.
• 24:36
  Get a pulse from your team.
• 24:38
  If you do it anonymous.
• 24:39
  There's great tools like SurveyMonkey and things like that that are free.
• 24:43
  A lot of these communication platforms have polls that you can do for free.
• 24:47
  There's things like Kahoot.
• 24:49
  There's another one.
• 24:50
  There's all kinds of different platforms that are free that you can get anonymous feedback
• 24:54
  from.
• 24:55
  And have fun with it.
• 24:56
  I think that's the other thing is, you know, people love humor.
• 24:59
  They like having fun.
• 25:01
  Enjoy your life.
• 25:02
  This is it.
• 25:03
  So have fun with it.
• 25:05
  And and enjoy your team.
• 25:06
  You've built them.
• 25:07
  You've gotten them together.
• 25:09
  Have some fun because just because times are difficult, doesn't mean that it it have to be
• 25:13
  bad.
• 25:14
  Well, thank you.
• 25:15
  It's been amazing.
• 25:16
  So for people, that one more of Sabrina and this vibrant energy that she's got.
• 25:21
  Where where can people,
• 25:23
  get ahold of you if they wanted to, find out more about about your company, and maybe you
• 25:27
  can share with them a little bit about your company.
• 25:29
  Yeah.
• 25:30
  Yeah.
• 25:30
  I always say don't do it.
• 25:31
  It's a trap.
• 25:32
  But, no, if you wanna find me Sabrina Shaffer, s h a f e r on LinkedIn.
• 25:38
  I do not have other social media because it's just not my jam, but If you do follow me on
• 25:44
  LinkedIn, you will see I do this thing called Fear Forward, where I do the scariest things in
• 25:49
  my life that I can possibly think of, and then I do them public online.
• 25:54
  And, all the way from running marathons to having very scary conversations to talking
• 25:59
  about unconscious biases, to posting pictures of me crying, talking about my childhood, as a,
• 26:05
  you know, homeless immigrant to, I mean, you name it.
• 26:08
  Anything that scares me, I do it on that platform.
• 26:11
  So you're welcome to follow me on LinkedIn and reach out to me.
• 26:15
  I love to meet new people.
• 26:16
  Roxanne, that's how you and I met, and I couldn't be happier about it.
• 26:19
  If you wanna know a little bit more about continuum, the company, the full name is
• 26:23
  transformation continuum, and you can find us at transformation continuum.com.
• 26:29
  Awesome.
• 26:30
  Thanks so much again.
• 26:31
  So what am I walking away with?
• 26:35
  Love and trust.
• 26:37
  And vision.
• 26:38
  And we
• 26:39
  can all get through it together, because good times will come again, but we're we're hitting
• 26:45
  some and it's the reality of business.
• 26:48
  It's cyclical.
• 26:49
  It always happens.
• 26:50
  So for everyone out there, if you wanted to get a hold of me, I will be launching my new book
• 26:55
  on June 10th.
• 26:57
  So, we're gonna be able to pre launch at this point.
• 26:59
  So if you'd like to go and, preorder copy, just go to roxandorge.comforward/book.
• 27:06
  You'll get all the information there, and I would love for you to At some point, I will be
• 27:12
  having an online, launch.
• 27:15
  I'll let make sure that everybody knows so they can come and hang out with us.
• 27:18
  Sabrina.
• 27:19
  Again, thank you so much.
• 27:20
  Always a lovely spending time with you.
• 27:22
  And
• 27:22
  every everyone, thanks again for spending the time with us.
• 27:25
  Take care, and we'll talk to you soon.
• 27:27
  Bye, everyone.
• 27:30
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 27:35
  healthy change.
• 27:36
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 27:43
  Derhodge dotcom/blueprint.
• 27:47
  We'll see you next time.
• 27:48
  An authentic living with Roxanne.