Latest / Results Driven / Episode 135: Why More Leads Made Our Business Worse (and What We Did Instead)

Transcript

Episode 135: Why More Leads Made Our Business Worse (and What We Did Instead) · Results Driven

0:00
SPEAKER_00: I am a big believer that you don't manage any of that.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: You don't manage any VAs, nothing.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: You manage a project manager who outbound manages everything.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: Because all I do all day is I sell or raise money, and any task that I do is income producing.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: So you'll never see me training a cool caller or anything like that.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: I pay someone else to do that.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Are you a driven real estate investor tired of inconsistent deal flow and ready to scale your business?
0:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm Tiffany Hyde and I'm Josh Hyde.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: And this is the Results Driven Podcast, where we share proven strategies to build systems, master sales, grow your team, and create a self-sustaining business with predictable income.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're a one-person operation or building a team, our mission is to give you the tools, support, and mindset shifts you need to succeed.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Tiffany, thank you so much for being here.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Legion Underground guys.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Tiffany, thank you especially.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: I would love to start out right on that because that is something I've wondered for some time.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: And so it's no secret that you can do more business if you can sell to a hedge fund.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: How did you find these hedge funds?
1:13
SPEAKER_01: How did you find people to sell to uh that work for them?
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: So this is what I do.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: I go into the MLS, I search by cash-only transactions.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: And then what I do is I do it by zip code first.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't do like the whole county because that would be overwhelming.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: And I would do like a contract close date of just say the last 30 days or 45 days.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: And then I'll do like a typical zip code that a lot of landlords buy in.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: And then so I'll start with that zip code, I'll search all.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: And remember, it's you on every train in our MLS, it's really time consuming.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: It took me like say all evening for one zip code.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: You create a spreadsheet and you put the first name, last name, cell phone, and email of the agent that represented the buyer who had cash.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And then in the row going across, you want to put an X for like, you know, let's say you see them three times.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Each time you see them put an X.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: When you see an agent that's representing typically more than two or three cash transactions within 45 days, they're representing somebody.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Whether they're someone that represents a bunch of rehabbers or our institution, it's rare for like a normal agent to be having that many cash transactions.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: So what I do then is I reach out to those one-off agents that have several cash transactions, you know, one by one and call them.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: But what I do with that spreadsheet is if you've represented two or three or more cash transactions, I then SMS blast them.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: I'll take that, save it as a CSV, and then I SMS blast them and say, Hey, notice you're representing some investors on the MLS.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I have some off-market deals.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Are you interested?
2:51
SPEAKER_00: If they are an investor-friendly agent, they will respond and say, What do you got, or something like that?
2:57
SPEAKER_00: You'll always know, like based on their response, if they're an agent you want to be talking to, and then just pick up the phone and obviously call them then.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: But that's just how I ended up finding them because 99% of the institutions or big, big rehabbers that have acquisitions guys buying off the MLS, they have agents representing their acquisitions.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: And so for your off-market deals, what's your hook for the agent?
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Are you paying commissions on your deals or so with institutions like hedge funds, they typically have like a rule or policy they're going to share with you.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: So like my biggest hedge fund, they cover their team's, you know, own commissions, all that.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: They just like, you know, it was like a straight assignment or a double close.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: And then I had another hedge fund that said, you know, anytime you sell us a deal, know that you know$2,500 has to come out to pay, whatever.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: And they tell you that.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: So you like if they say they represent a hedge fund, you need to say what are your rules, policies, procedures, etc.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Because the other thing is when you work for an institution like that, they always have like inspection procedures, and no matter what you think, say or do, like you can't break their rules.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: So it's always easier, for example, if we put a house in contract, if we think it's for a hedge fund and that's why we're putting it in contract, we typically on like a rehab one, we'll go do the walkthrough, get, you know, a hundred photos, all that, then market it.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: But on ones where we think, okay, I think this hedge fund's gonna want this deal, we will actually take their inspector with us through the walkthrough to keep the process rolling because we know automatically if they want it, they're not gonna give you like a set in stone until they get the inspection.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: And then let's just say it's an agent that's representing a rehab or a bunch of rehabbers, whatever.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: What we typically try to start out saying then is that you know, from zero to five thousand, you get five hundred, you know, five to ten, you get fifteen or a thousand, ten to fifteen, you get fifteen hundred.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Anything above, we're just gonna one off, you know, talk about the fee.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: I like basically ten percent of our assignment.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: And you have to make sure you clarify like if they're like, Do you pay my three percent?
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me explain how we're making money.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: They know it if they're already representing investors, because it's not you know, if I make a five thousand dollar assignment, I'm sure as hell not paying you three percent on the whole purchase price.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: This isn't a listing.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: So right, absolutely.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: Back up for two seconds and just give us like the 60-second overview of your team and your market, and then kind of your exit strategies, what you guys are doing.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a few people that may not have heard of you.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Most of them should have, though.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: So we're in Columbus, Ohio.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: We rehab and wholesale in Columbus.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: We have rentals in Columbus and Toledo, Ohio, and we wholesale in Kansas City.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: We were in actually several cities before, and then we learned a lesson that scaling to multiple cities is not the answer.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: It's going deep into your market.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: That's the answer.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: We last year did 165-ish deals, and probably 70% were wholesales, 30% were rehabs, but this year it's flipped.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: We're doing 70% rehabs, 30% wholesales.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Our team is currently two acquisition managers.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: We did have a part-time follow-up specialist who now just yesterday accepted a full-time, so we'll have a full-time what we call like a junior AM.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And then we have an operations coordinator who's sitting right behind me.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: She does all of our transactions, all that.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: And then just me and Josh.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Part of your story was I saw just from following some of your posts last year, you said that you were starting to throw a lot of money at marketing and generate, you were just like, I need more leads, I need more leads, I need more leads.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: And you found out that that wasn't the answer.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit about that?
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so hopefully you guys never go through this.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: But so about halfway through last year, everyone in the biggest gurus in the industry will tell you, like, scale, scale, scale, scale, like hire all these people.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And I listened.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: And so I hired way too many people at once in acquisitions.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: And plus, that we also hired people that were um like really good salespeople, and actually quite a few of them were from the educational space, like for bigger companies.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: And they came in like they knew everything.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Instead of like hiring someone who's maybe fresh or came from a different industry who you can mold into the role, they like have this mentality that they knew everything.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: So they come in.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I spent literally like$70,000 to$80,000 a month in marketing.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: It was insane during this quarter, and uh, it was miserable.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: So they and then on top of it, they weren't performing.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And so what they would do is they would come to me and be like, Well, I'm not performing because I don't have enough leads, or it's the marketing, or it's that, it's this.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: So, like, I had all this anxiety, and that's why I was like, All right, maybe I'm not spending enough on marketing.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: So I would just blow up marketing, and I would literally, I was getting like 40 to 50 leads per day per acquisition manager, and I look back and like it's my biggest regret ever because it probably destroyed my data.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: It definitely destroyed my data.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, I go like we have very strict 30, 60, and 90 day expectations now for acquisitions, and ever since let me tell you how that all ended, by the way, but ever since that all ended, we have very clear expectations on performance.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't hit 30 days, you're let go.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: If you don't hit 60 days, you're let go, etc.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: But, anyways, I woke up three months later and was like, this isn't working, and my life's miserable.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: I'd rather like go get a job than do this.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: So I woke up on Sunday crying for all day, and then finally was like, it on Monday we came in and just literally let go three fourths of the team.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: And it was the best thing we ever did.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: So we obviously kept a game players and realized that going deep into your market is the best, putting the right people in the right seats, and we completely transformed how we lead people after that.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, we got mentors that weren't just like, you know, your average guru in the industry.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: We got mentors that were in other industries, but were sales mentors, sales leaders, things like that.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: So now we have like a totally different way in which we manage our sales team, and it has transformed us ever since.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: So we actually do higher revenue volume today with two acquisition managers than we ever did with 10 people on the floor.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Get out of town.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: What kind of KPIs were you?
9:07
SPEAKER_01: You said 40 or 50 leads per day per that's what I was doing then.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Now we do like anywhere from like 12 to 17 new leads per day per the two acquisitions, but we also have a follow-up specialist.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: So like we decrease the lead count per day by a lot.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: But keep in mind, guys, I've been doing this for a while.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: So we have like 10,000 leads stacked in our system like over the last two and a half years.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, follow-up is key for us.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're like starting out or only in a few months into the business, you might need more leads than that.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: But any more than that, they just don't get appropriate time spent to them, anyways.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: So, like that, no more than 20 for sure per person per day is where we want to be.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of leads to still follow up with everything on the back end.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Your follow-up specialist, are they always picking up the phone or is it anything automated?
9:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's automation.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: So we have them on an internal dialer that's custom built into our system.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: We have them, like we have, you know, nurture sequences.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: So basically, we let about during that same time frame, I said, How can I do more with less?
10:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's when I became an expert at systems.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: So, like, my niche is definitely marketing and systems.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And I said, How can I make each person more money, more productive, etc.?
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And it was all about giving them the right tools.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: So everything from phone systems, custom dialers connected to our CRM, how are we automating follow-up and getting them in front of the hottest people?
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Because I want my closers closing, I don't want them spending time on cold leads.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: So that's been what we've been focused on ever since.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: So, like, we call it the no lead left behind system.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of big guys in the industry, if you ask them like what their lead to contract is, or days like from lead to contract, it's like three to six or something.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Ours is actually like in the 70-day range, which means let's say I pull list in 2018, it's been in my queue forever, and it became a lead six months ago.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, I just recently landed it.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: So like it goes to show you that how many deals we're getting from follow-up versus just focusing on the new leads.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: And is that a measure of you know you're going deep enough then into your own market and with your own leads, like that 70 days versus the lay down of four or five days?
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Are you measuring that 70 days as a KPI to how you're going?
11:28
SPEAKER_00: That and then what we did was so when we scaled to get that many leads per person per day, when we had all those people, we were in four more markets than what we are today.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's when I blew tons of money.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Like when you enter a new market, it's when it's the most expensive, right?
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Even if it's your own backyard, your first like set of big lists is you know 20, 30 grand a pop.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: So, like imagine we'd literally launch five cities basically all within a few months with all that data.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: And so that's why we could get that many leads, but it was worthless because you can't you can't successfully go deep in any city that fast.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Like you need to build the right relationships, the right inspectors, the right agents, you know, all that kind of stuff.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: And so the lead count was there, but were the leads, you know, streamlined, were they hot enough, all that kind of stuff?
12:15
SPEAKER_00: So we literally, when we were like, you know what, Kansas City has been good to us, and I think it's good to us too, because we also built the right relationships with buyers and all that kind of stuff.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: And then the rest of them, I went to other wholesalers in the industry that were in those markets and was like, look, I'm gonna stay out of your backyard, but I already spent all this money on the data.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Do you want it for like pennies on the dollar?
12:36
SPEAKER_00: So I just sold all that data that I bought just to like move on.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: And then I literally took all those leads from those cities in my podio system and had my VAs delete every single one.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Didn't that I just literally got them out?
12:49
SPEAKER_01: Didn't that function?
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I got it.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: I want to circle back.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: You just said mentors, and you just said not gurus within the space.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: How did you find men?
12:58
SPEAKER_01: That's a question I get all the time.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: People like, how do you find mentors?
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Who should be my mentor?
13:02
SPEAKER_01: What mentors did you find?
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Because it sounds like they did a lot for your sales game.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: How did you find them?
13:07
SPEAKER_00: So they were actually through like family, family, friends, and corporate space.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: So when I was in corporate space, I was the head of a US organization within a division.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: And I just reached out and was like, look, you need to put me in touch with whoever led like the whole customer service team or sales team.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: People are just on the phone because leading a sales team that's out physically at people's houses or businesses selling is completely different than a phone sales team.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: We also, like you had mentioned before to me, Nick Poe, who used to be with Raphael, was a great resource.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: And then my father actually scaled a sales team from like zero to 50 guys in two years and sold it for millions.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like managing a sales team is a full-time job.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: And so one of the biggest mistakes I see, like we do a lot of group and one-on-one coaching internally too.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: And when people come in for our one-on-one coaching, on the very first day, I'm gonna give you an example.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Someone came in, he does tons of rehabs, he owns six different companies, like a brokerage, all this other stuff.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And they wanted to get really good at wholesaling.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we put out the org chart, and I looked across it and I said, Who's gonna be managing your acquisitions?
14:16
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I am.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, I'm gonna hand you your you know your 20 grand back unless you make one commitment to me.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Like you cannot successfully do this if you are not leading them eight hours a day or you know, whatever your your time is, because you have to manage energy, you have to coach them throughout calls, you have to lead them at all times of the day.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Like it is a phone sales team.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: You can't expect that an acquisition leader, you just like throw them training videos of like John Martinez or whatever, and then just get them on the phone.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's just not how it's gonna work, and you're gonna lose out on tons of opportunity.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't agree more because that's how we do it too, virtual acquisitions, much smaller than you, but actively coaching, actively listening, uh and then actively working on role-playing and scripts and that kind of thing.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Definitely gotta be doing it daily.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Talk a little bit about your daily huddle, perhaps, and the daily and weekly KPIs.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Because you said something about if they're not hitting their 30, they're not hitting their 60, or their 90, they're out of there.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: What is that in your business?
15:16
SPEAKER_00: So you need to bring Josh on for 30 minutes next.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: He had to go sign a contract with a seller.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: So he manages the daily huddle for sales and he has a like a very structured process to it.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna have to bring him on because I don't know all the details other than they go over yesterday's KPIs.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: So they go, I do know they go over how many what we call processes in our company, which is six minute or longer conversations, which are tracked on my KPI board.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So there's on the front end of the process, it means do they want to sell?
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Did you get their motivation and condition of the property and all that before you made the offer?
15:49
SPEAKER_00: So we go over how many processes did you have, how many dials, and then how many offers, how many contracts, and then we look at how many people did you take through the process versus make the offer, things like that.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: And then there's a sales.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: So one thing that he does do is we used to like just pick a topic every day and train on it, and that was not effective.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: So we always say on Monday we review like what was the one thing last week that it seemed like a common trend that people were falling out of place on the process.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Um so this week, for example, it's about motivation.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: So instead of, and he has a you have to ask him.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So then motivation is the topic every day for the week because he wants to master the craft, he doesn't change it every day.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And then like one day is on theory, one day is on role playing, one day is on like I don't know, something like that.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to ask Josh, he leads the sales team.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: I lead the dispo side, so I actually have it up on my board.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: So on the dispo TC side, the first thing we always go over is wins.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: We go over new deals from yesterday, closing updates, priorities on dispo that day, and then project updates on the rehabs.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: If someone here's a question that's like multi-tiered.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: The group is uh evenly spaced between some beginners and intermediates, and then we do have a decent amount of experts in the group.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: We have a few people on the call that have done over a thousand deals.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: For someone who's starting out, what do you think is important to measure as KPIs and really pay attention to?
17:13
SPEAKER_01: And then for someone intermediate to get to that next level of expert, what do you think is important to measure?
17:18
SPEAKER_00: So, beginners, you're probably doing your own acquisitions, I assume, right?
17:24
SPEAKER_00: That's a Josh question on how to what to look at on the acquisition side.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: You really probably need to pay attention to like how many dials you're making a day, how many are follow-up versus new leads, like what's your new lead count, and then managing your budget.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: So your marketing should be 14 to 19% of your expected revenue.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: It's hard when you're by yourself because you don't have anyone keeping you in check.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: So, like if I could give any piece of advice, the best decision I ever made was I had I paid a lot of money in the beginning to have mentors that were expensive, but like at least someone was leading me, right?
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Because now we lead people below us.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: But um, you definitely need someone that who can listen to your calls, you know, tear them apart.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: Are you following the process, etc.?
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and then if you're trying to go to the next level, then you have to learn how to be a leader.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: So my biggest piece of advice is figuring out what are the right KPIs, how am I going to structure my meetings?
18:19
SPEAKER_00: So, like we're very strict on times of the day, daily huddles, team meetings, all that kind of stuff.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: It's at the same time every day with everyone.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: You have to, you know, you have to start building it and thinking like a corporation if you want to truly take yourself to the next level.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing right there.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: As far as talk about trends for your outbound marketing or any marketing, outbound or inbound.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: What do you think has been the biggest driver for you this year?
18:47
SPEAKER_01: And that has it changed from last year?
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Like if direct mail was bad last year and now good this year.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: What kind of trends are you seeing there in your market?
18:53
SPEAKER_00: So, one thing that was actually really good for us last year that's been horrible for us lately, and I don't know if it's because of our provider or because of the system.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Last year, our most profitable deals actually, we didn't get very many of them, but was Facebook target ads.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: That was actually our most profitable deals, but we'd only get like one or two a month.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: And then PPC, but this year they are literally both completely dead for us.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: So we're actually interviewing different providers.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: I do think PVC is probably the provider more than anything at this point because I'm like interviewing quite a few people.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing that other people are having success.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's more on us having the wrong provider as well.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: And then Facebook, once they changed the zip code targeting, that just fell off the face of the earth for me too.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know again if it's the provider that hasn't been able to adjust to it.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: And then last year, RVM was massive for us.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: That's probably one of the smallest performing campaigns now for us, because I think everyone like got into it.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: But I would still say that cold calling was like, you know, 40 to 50 percent of our deals last year.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's 50% this year, but it's still like a pretty good portion.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: And is that like VAs overseas or a service?
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Are you guys doing that in-house?
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Ours are uh overseas in the Philippines.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Nice, and I and I don't manage them, I hire an agency.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's really cool.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: That's my next step.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Managing them is a little bit of a pain.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't manage, so there's one thing to learn from me is I am a big believer that you don't manage any of that.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: You don't manage any VAs, nothing.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: You manage a project manager who outbound manages everything.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Because all I do all day is I sell or raise money, and any task that I do is income producing.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: So you'll never see me training a cool caller or anything like that.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: I pay someone else to do that.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Guys, that's a huge nugget right there because she's still working in her business.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, she's got a great business going on over 150 deals last year, but she said everything that she's working on is income producing.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Everything that's incredible.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, as far as your outbound marketing channels, I know that you're doing a good amount.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: You just ripped off a bunch that you're doing for someone who's just starting out.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Where do you think they should start and like how many?
21:09
SPEAKER_01: And then what are some of the more advanced ones that you guys are like taking bets?
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Like you just said Facebook is kind of like fallen off and you're trying to recenter that.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: But if someone's just starting off, what should they do?
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Like just cold calling or add in direct mail?
21:20
SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
21:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's a good right answer for that.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I think it's that you just have to master one campaign at a time.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Every campaign brings in deals.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: So, like, I just talked to a guy yesterday that's coming out to our thing coming up, and he does seven deals a month and only does PPC.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: So, like, every campaign has its niche, and if you can run it really well, then that's it.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: So just don't try to launch three marketing campaigns at once when you're starting, thinking you should be doing all these until one is mastered, it's set up correctly, it's performing, and then go on to the next.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: On the disposition side, since that's where you handle, I don't want to ask you another Josh question.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: I'll definitely have to get him on.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Please let him know today.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: I told him you need to ping him individually because he is your acquisitions leader for sure.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: He's and I'm not saying this just because he's my husband, but I would tell you out of everyone in the industry and every event we've been to, he is by far the best sales leader out there.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Like when it comes to managing acquisitions, how to keep them in there, how he's coaching them through calls.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: We have systems internally that he can barge into calls, talk to his acquisition manager, coach him through it so the seller doesn't see it, etc.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: On disposition, personally, for me, this was a lot harder to get up and running successfully than acquisitions was.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: For acquisitions, getting the contracts wasn't really a big thing for me in the beginning, but then selling some of the harder deals, some of the thinner deals were harder.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Give us a few of your success tips on the disposition side of things, maybe how you operate a little bit, who your buyers are, and that kind of thing.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: So a couple things.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm probably not like your average wholesaler in the sense that I believe in mass blasting like tons of buyers.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: You'll see people pound their chest or tell you to put thousands of people or go buy some massive buyers list.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe in that.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: So I don't work with anyone typically, especially not since COVID, who uses hard money.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, hard money it can delay it, it can fall out.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, I just personally, I as a personal thing.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: You need to have cash or private money, and I need to be able to rely on you.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: So for the most part, we only sell to the big guys in town.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: And then because you know stuff's gonna close and it's worth it.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: That's a personal thing.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Like I know that other people teach people like how to get a you know, every agent in town, everyone's email, every this, every that.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe in that.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Because like at the end of the day, I want my VIP list to probably be 20 to 30 people or under in my city, which my city is a million people, so you may if you have four million, then you're probably have more buyers than that.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's probably me and five other rehabbers in town that if we give you a price, we're closing.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: And so that's who I want.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: That's the type of people I want to be selling to on the wholesale side.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: And then what was the other part of the question?
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, just anything special that you might do on the dispo side, but you're you're talking to VIP buyers, you're not going really wide, but you're going super deep.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Anything else?
24:12
SPEAKER_00: So we do we do go wide, like what we'll do is if we can't sell it to our VIP for the price that we want, which rarely ever happens, we'll blast it out on like an email.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: But in our city, I don't know if you guys are running this similar issue.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes like you'll find out someone or an agent went around you, or someone's out trying to market your deal or run into all these problems.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: So we just got rid of all that shit and try selling straight to people.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Guys, we got five minutes.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: So we're coming in on the back end of the show here.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: Clara, uh, Brian wants to know why the switch of 70-30 from wholesale into rehabs?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you doing more rehabs now?
24:46
SPEAKER_00: So, what we did the first quarter was we did an audit of every so there was like four rehabbers in town that we sold shit tons of volume to.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: And we went back and we're like, dude, all they put was like 20, 25 grand in seas rentos.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: And we were rehabbers before we were wholesalers, and we have no problem raising money.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: So we're like, why aren't we rehabbing?
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, why did we sell that?
25:05
SPEAKER_00: And we went back and saw what their sale price was, and let's say we made 15 grand off them.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, they went and made 40,000, 50 grand on the rehab.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: So we're like, why aren't we closing the gap and just taking the whole margin?
25:17
SPEAKER_00: And so where the first year, the reason why we went from rehabbing to wholesaling was because we were doing these big gut rehabs, you know, 150,000 rehabs, and we got into legal issues with some, fired half our contractors, etc.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And so that pushed us to wholesaling.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, now we're like, if that renovation only took 20, 25 grand, that's nothing.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: We can turn that in three weeks.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: So anything now that we put into contract, that's a three to five week renovation, which for us is a full cosmetic turn.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: We can renovate an entire house, we can do roof, you know, anything that doesn't involve permits, we can do in less than five weeks.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: So we'll turn that ourselves and just take it down.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: And it has to be an affordable price range.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: So we only take down things in our city that have an ARV typically of 200 to 250 max.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: And if it's in a really good school district, then you know, maybe 350, 400, but only if it's in like a top school district.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: But our average purchase price is 80 to 110 with 25 grand in repairs.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: I like it.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Clark said, can you uh go into your list pulling process at all?
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh I have to understand what you're really trying, what's the goal of the question so I know how to answer it better, I guess.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, where are you pulling lists from?
26:29
SPEAKER_01: How often?
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Where do you load them into from there to deploy the uh I outsource all of this and I probably have 150 process documents that go to this, so I could spend an entire hour on it.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I mean I'm pulling all your courthouse data every seven days, so anything like foreclosures, share of sales, liens, you know, all that kind of stuff every seven days by county.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Then they get launched into campaigns.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: My VAs manage all that.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't touch any of it.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And then we pull the big list like once a year now.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: So long-term owner, absentee, all that.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: We pull only pull that once a year now.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: And then Daniel's asking what systems or software has allowed you to really understand your data and KPIs?
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Spreadsheets.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: No, we have uh we have a custom built podio, and then we have KPIs that feed from podio, and then we have some that have formulas and spreadsheets.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: We have dashboards too that can do all this, you know, fun looking stuff, but I'm a spreadsheet person, so everything that my system does feeds in, and that's how we're looking at things.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Last question for me What is your BHAG, your big, hairy, audacious goal?
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Why do you do everything the way you do?
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Why do you work so hard?
27:40
SPEAKER_01: Why are you trying to grow?
27:41
SPEAKER_01: What's your BHAG?
27:42
SPEAKER_00: So I personally have a vision of helping other people get to where we're at because the first year, although we did a well, a million dollars in revenue, well, long let me go back, let me backtrack.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: So I got into this because my 17-year-old brother got diagnosed with cancer and three years ago, and my parents own a few companies.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: And when he was in the hospital for a year, my parents literally never left his side.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Like they never left the hospital for 365 days.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: And so that was a big eye-opener to me that like if I'm gonna be a mother someday, which I'm pregnant and do in two months, then I need to do something else.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Like I needed more flexibility.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just about money and my job and all that.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So I left my job and got into rehabbing.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Did like 40 rehabs our first year, learned a lot of lessons.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: So although like we did tons of revenue, we definitely didn't net that much because we made too many mistakes.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: And then when I went into wholesaling and scaled out systems, like my vision changed because I realized, like, holy shit, you know, I just made 33 grand or you know, 35 grand on something that took me three weeks to renovate.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: And it made me realize that, you know, I have 80 first cousins, like every one of those cousins, my family members, whatever, if they could just do one of those, like how much that helps them.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: And so my vision on more of the education side really blew up as well.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So now you know we stay very niche into what we're really good at on the systems and marketing side, and our real estate side is about as consistent as it gets.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, we land one out of every six offers, we're just like on par every week's the same.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: And we do have a vision of growing by about another two to four rehabs a month, but the bigger vision after that is more like showing other people to you know how to get there because it takes only one deal a year to for some people to change for life.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: So that doesn't mean that someone needs to be doing the value we're doing, but it has a lot of impact.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: You're a go-giver for sure.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Tiffany, where can everyone find you, follow you?
29:43
SPEAKER_01: And I know you do coaching and you have like a two-day mastermind coming up, guys.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, she has a wealth of knowledge.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we do a lot of our educations around two things.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: Systems and marketing is what we heavily focus on from me.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: And then Josh focuses on the acquisition side, on not just being good acquisitions, but how you're gonna lead your team, like how you're holding them accountable, the sales training, all that kind of stuff now.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: But we always require that everyone goes through what I have, I have a virtual training group and it's four weeks, and we go over our systems in great detail, everything from our phone systems, our marketing campaigns, content, all that kind of stuff.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: And then most people from there then come to the two-day because then we implement it live with them in person too in our office, and they get to see our operation and meet our team.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: So I keep it very affordable for now just to you know help grow my own name too as well.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you are interested, let me know because the price won't stay this low forever.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: There's one thing that has really changed my life and my trajectory and my career, and that's paying for education and masterminds.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: So if you've never paid for any education before, definitely don't shy away from it.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: It's something that's just going to transform you forward.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: So, Tiffany, thank you so much for being here.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Total go giver.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: You're just a wealth of knowledge, and I'm super, super impressed by you and can't wait to follow you and can't wait to talk to Josh.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely reach out to Josh.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: He'll definitely be a valuable one to bring on.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: Tiffany, thank you so much for your time.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: I know it is expensive.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate it.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate having you here.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: If this hits home and you know you need to go deeper, I want you to download the free resource that I recently just built.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: It's at www.rdebook.com.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Again, that's www.rdebook.com.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: It's called 26 Mistakes I Made as a Real Estate Investor.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: You'll get the playbooks, the stories, and the breakdowns so that you can shortcut all the mistakes I made while building this multiple seven-figure real estate business and start doing deals way smarter than I ever did sooner and faster.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: And hey, if you got value today, it would mean a lot to me.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: It actually would mean the world to me.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: If you left a five-star review on Apple or Spotify and left me a review and share with a friend who you think is stuck doing it all themselves right now, because one shift in strategy could be worth six figures or more.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Talk soon and see you on the next episode.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: This episode has come to an end, but your journey continues.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode.
32:12
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32:18
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32:22
SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time on the results driven podcast.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time on the results driven podcast.