Latest / Start Me Up with Kimberley A. Johnson / Start Me Up: Elizabeth Cronise McLaughlin

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Start Me Up: Elizabeth Cronise McLaughlin · Start Me Up with Kimberley A. Johnson

• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Start Me Up podcast part of M.S.W.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Media and the sexy liberal podcast network.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Kimberly Johnson in DC.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today my returning guest is Elizabeth Croniz McLaughlin.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's the founder at the Gaia Leadership Project.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's the author of Becoming Heroines, unleashing our power for revolution and rebirth, and she's the host of Resistance Live on YouTube.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love talking to Elizabeth.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's really, really smart, but before we get into it, start me up podcast is independent, listen or funded, and woman run.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Visit patreon.com slash start me up to see the variety of tears offered, including the option to get a bonus what's up episode just for patrons every Tuesday.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like my online journal where I get a little more personal and I talk about whatever's on my mind.
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's also an ad free tier with a much shorter intro.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just visit patreon.com slash start me up.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now please enjoy my conversation with Elizabeth Croniz McLaughlin.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the show, Elizabeth.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad to be here.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's always wonderful to be on your show.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I always appreciate your incredible knowledge about everything.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're just one of those smart ladies, you know what?
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to quickly before we get into all of the news because there's so much news.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk and ask about this guy a project.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I might have asked you about it before, but I don't remember, so I want you to just refresh my memory.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so what I actually do for my day job is I run a company that helps people figure out how they can make the greatest impact possible right now.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's called the Gaia Leadership Project and we do work with folks who are really committed notwithstanding these incredibly challenging conditions that we're all living through right now.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: to building out generational change unified by progressive values and so we're doing that now through a signature community that we're running called the Ripple Effect Institute, which is really designed to help people who are called right now to make a really big difference to fight back against authoritarianism, to build community power and we work with them to really help them build out non-profits,
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: community programs and other forms of really significant social justice movements.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's great because it kind of keeps me grounded, but also it really gives me a lot of hope.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because we're working with people all over the country and actually all over the world now, who are really trying to build for a better future and trying to do it, even notwithstanding what's happening here and around the world with regard to far-right wing movements rising.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's great.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And people can learn more about it at Geil LeadershipProject.com if you're interested.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: awesome and thank you for doing that.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay so drip drip drip drip we're going to talk about the Epstein files and you had posted there's so much to this but you posted I'm telling you I've just spent 40 minutes in these files and there's so much damning shit it's hard to fathom reminding me of the day is going through docs in the human rights violation cases it's really bad so can you just talk a little bit about that tell us what you saw obviously a lot of it's out there I don't know if all of it's out there but you know what is your big takeaway from it and then we'll just
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, you know, it's fascinating.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, my background, of course, is that I was a human rights lawyer, and I also worked on Wall Street doing securities fraud litigations for many, many years.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I decided this morning to kind of log into the documents and just go through them using the search methodologies that I used when I was working with documents for trial.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things that's really obvious is that in the second tranche of documents that were released yesterday, there's 20,000 new pages of documents.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Even though reporters have been working through these documents to find things that are significant with regard to Trump, it's really hard when you start going through these documents to not come across something that is incredibly damaging and damning with regard to just an enormous number of white men worldwide who are engaged.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Epstein, and to be honest, it's been really disturbing because it does really feel as though, you know, particularly with the national political figures who were implicated and the international political figures that are implicated as though he was the center of so much criminal activity that everybody knew about and it was really quite quite out in the open and that so many of these men were even emailing and testing him.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: jokes about if not participating in it, it's really hard to look at all of that and not think that this is just a sign of absolute rot among wealthy white men who have so much power over the lives of the rest of us.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been disturbing to investigate it to keep investigating it because I, you know, it's certainly there's so much more to go through.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, the big takeaways for me are just that this is so much bigger, I think than any of us had even imagined, to the point that it's actually really quite frightening.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it really is.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, it just, it just...
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't even describe like the feeling and I guess I'm speaking for me but I'm also speaking for so many people because it makes you feel incredibly vulnerable and it makes you feel especially as a woman.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You just feel unsafe.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: These people have been running things for so long and it's so disgusting and then now to make matters worse, I don't know if you saw Megan Kelly is defending this and basically saying that they're 15, it's basically
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: she said something like I know someone close to Epstein or something like that and he's saying that it's, Epstein was not a pedophile.
• 5:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: He just like the barely legal girls that were 15, which keep in mind she has a 14-year-old daughter.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But she's saying that it's not eight-year-olds.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so one of the things that I wanted to ask you, that is so gross, she is such a disgusting human being.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were hearing earlier in the year that this was going to be the thing that was going to break maga, but we're you know, we are seeing prominent maga leaders like Megan kind of making excuses for it now.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think we're just this go with like everybody.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say that you know I know she said that yesterday this morning I saw a clip of an interview where she actually admitted perhaps now in hindsight that what is in the files is really bad what we have seen so far.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: So she may be spinning that a little bit at this point.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: She is actually the only person that I have seen defending it which I take is a good sign.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: We did have
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, representative Don Bacon, who is a Republican, say on the record yesterday after not endorsing the discharge petition that he would be voting in favor of the release of the files.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there's now some, you know, not publicly sour, definitely like anonymously sourced reporting, that there may be as many as a hundred or less.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: house who are planning on voting for it.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I have to say that one of the things that I've just been thinking about in the political dynamics of this is that all of Trump's base was set up from the beginning to believe that the Epstein files were going to bring down prominent Democrats.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: been calling for years now.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this goes all the way back to Trump's first term for information about Epstein's death, that they thought we were going to bring down Bill Clinton and various other prominent Democrats.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now, having been conditioned in that way, and that's leaving us, I'd queue in on, which, of course,
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ironically enough, a pair of projected that a cabal of global elites, pedophiles, were running the world.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say I look to these documents yesterday and today and thought maybe that wasn't that far off, but one of the things that we have to keep in mind here is they've all been conditioned by these conspiracy theories to believe that the Epstein Files, the
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: contain incredibly damning things and they've been told over and over again by Trump and his people that they would release the Epstein files.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think one of the reasons why this has so such serious legs to it as a story in addition to just the absolute disgusting nature of what we're learning day by day is that when Pam Bond, the E-back in June of July, said the Epstein files don't exist.
• 8:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was after years and years and years of the Epstein files being touted by the Trump regime, by his people, as being something they would absolutely release when he returned to power.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: So now the manga base feels betrayed.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: A number of podcasters on his side of the fence have, you know, come out and said this is ridiculous, including Joe Rogan.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I think that we have to think about what this means in the context of the information ecosystem on the far right when you do have far right wing figures suddenly feeling betrayed by the fact that the Trump regime will not release these documents so I I'm going to be really interested to see where this goes because
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: the the confidence right now of people on our side of the fence on the left or Democrats and people on in the manga base who want these files released is is very substantial.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw a poll number yesterday that 81% of the American public believes that Trump is covering something up but not releasing the obscene files.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you know this is really actually ironically enough quite a bipartisan issue and that
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: That may mean that the pressure that's being put on Republicans to release this is significant enough to get it done.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then I kind of want to ask you too, because I don't know if you saw that Elson Gill, she had put out a call to all of the people in the DOJ who had to go over the files, right?
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was like a thousand of them.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so what she saw was, no, first of all, I just want to clarify that,
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: she asked whoever she spoke with and I don't you know we don't know because it was all an anonymous that nobody said they saw anybody recognizable but that that there were photos perhaps are even videos of men with all these underage girls and it was just awful but there was this one man who specifically I guess it was just so upsetting and difficult for him but she you know because of all the things that he had to read and see and that it was so much worse than what we're
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but she said the files were not marked.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so when when these agents were going over these files like that's looking for Trump They weren't so they were looking for very specific things so they weren't marked.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't know what they were gonna see when they opened that file And of course that was upsetting for so many and then the rules would change, right Bondi and everybody's like changing the rules So that meant they had to go back
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: and relook at all that shit for whatever new thing they were looking at.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if they were traumatized, they had to be retraumatized.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess, you know, I mean, I'm going to take that even though that was just with with Allison's reporting, then, you know, you would mention those hundred Republicans.
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I saw a couple of weeks ago, Swallow, was talking about this and this is not gone away.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there was additional reporting, like you said, it's not source strength and we don't know exactly where it's coming from, but there's like a hundred Republicans who have connections in the DOJ and the FBI and whatever and they're all like, okay, we're hearing its worse.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they're going to break.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So do you think that this is going to
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're supposed to, I guess, release these files next week, isn't that, that's, isn't that what's being called for, that it's going to be released next or at least a call for it?
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to, they need to vote on it.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the district petition is the, is the procedural mechanism that allows someone to bring a vote to the floor of the house around the house leadership.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Johnson can't stop it.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, there are supposed to be a seasoning period after the discharge petition is filed where seven working days in the house have to pass.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: before it's brought to the floor.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then Johnson has two days to schedule a vote.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: He said yesterday, he was going to do it faster than that, which I actually found quite surprising.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to leave it when I see it.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: But apparently, it sounds like they're going to fast track a vote for it on the house.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then it has to go to the Senate where we have the problem of the filibuster.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And John Foon is already on record saying he doesn't think that he wants to bring it to the floor of the Senate.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, of course, if it does pass the Senate, the bill to release the files would have to be signed by Donald Trump, which brings us back to needing a two-third majority vote in the House in the Senate in order to actually get access to the files if it's functioning like a traditional bill.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is outside the subpoena power of the House oversight committee.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I just want to make that clear.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: House oversight has already subpoenaed these files from the DOJ and is working with the Epstein estate, which is where the documents that we got yesterday came from.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: this procedure is important because it is going to put on record who is actually in favor of releasing the files and who isn't, whether or not it's actually going to result in the DOJ releasing the files is another question and frankly I think this is one reason on my show today on YouTube I asked all my viewers to call their representatives and their senators to demand the Epstein files be released because we're probably going to have to put an enormous amount of pressure
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: done.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that with where we are right now and what's contained in these files that have come from the estate.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't include the 11,000 documented photographs and videos that were seen from Epstein's properties.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what we have seen so far is so awful and what we are expecting to get is so much worse.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: that I do think there's a chance that this could crack the whole thing wide open and and that's really on us as, you know, every day of our kids to pressure our leaders to do the right thing here and get justice for these victims.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you have to say to the people who are worried that these files are going to be scraped or erased?
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, one of the things that folks need to understand is it's very difficult to do that in this day and age with the way that evidence is maintained electronically.
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, for instance, you take Allison Gill's reporting that we just talked about.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: A thousand people are reviewing files all over.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: or the country in different offices.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're reviewing them on standard issued laptops presumably from the DOJ or on desktops in their offices.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: That means that those files are then back up copies of those files are being saved on devices all over the nation.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: that you usually, evidence is not kept any longer in paper format.
• 14:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: This has been true all the way back to my earliest days as a lawyer and where, you know, the first couple of years I would review documents in boxes and warehouses, but after that they were all scanned and loaded onto the cloud.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that means that there are generally speaking going to be backup tapes.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: around the country holding the evidence and then that's not even hurting if individual DOJ attorneys downloaded things to review onto their own great issue devices.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So for people who are worried about this I just want people to understand that as with everything else one something is uploaded to the internet it's really hard to get rid of it but also because preservation of evidence is generally speaking so important to the DOJ and to lawyers everywhere.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: The acts that you would have to take to scrape anything or wipe it are really basically impossible.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's possible at this point that these documents are just simply going to disappear.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're just in too many locations digitally stored for that to really be a prospect.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's good to know.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but we will be back after this message.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey real quick, are you my patron on Patreon?
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: If not, just go to patreon.com slash start me up.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Check out all the different tiers, support the show.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you in advance.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're back.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so now I want to switch over and talk about the fact that last Tuesday, we saw a massive win for the Democrats and then immediately following were seven Democrats who threw us all into the bus.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: They are called the surrender Democrats now.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like to listen and I know you have a similar message And I just want to hear what you say about this book first I watched there's a woman named she goes by park rose permaculture on YouTube Angela so she was ranting, you know, she was fucking pissed like so many of us are
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, all right, I'm done ranting, but I want to say this because it's like, I was from the beginning.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're all saying our elected officials aren't going to be the ones to save us.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be us.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she said we're going to save ourselves through organizing and she goes, boy, are we organizing?
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So she was really putting an emphasis on that.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just want you to speak to it because I know you've got your finger on this pulse.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, just talking about how the
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: General public as we become more aware of what's happening is becoming more and more resistant to what's happening.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what are you seeing?
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, you know, most of my day and day at work is with community organizers now.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I will tell you that it's amazing to me, how many people who really have never been involved in any form of community or political organizing are now actually getting engaged.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm seeing folks who really, for whatever reason, were not part of the group who became radicalized after Trump was elected the first time, really understand now the way in which this is all coming home to roots.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's very difficult when, you know, your neighbors on SNAP are suffering, where people are losing their healthcare, where, you know, moms of trans kids are worried about their children and being persecuted.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: It starts to really bubble up into actually understanding that you have to take action.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm with her on that.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I follow her.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's great.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I will also just say that I think one of the things that is coming around now is that people are not waiting to be led.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is something that I've been saying for a number of years now that, you know, many of us expected Robert Mueller to save us.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Smith to save us and what we've ended up recognizing is that the power of the people is actually where the action that will end this change it, build a better future, has to lie.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so the one thing that I have just said to everybody is, you know, you don't have to be perfect.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to even know what you're doing, but you do need to decide the issues that you care about the most and then figure out who's doing work on those issues where you live, whether it's immigration defense or abortion rights or gun safety figure out who's doing that work where you live show up to a meeting or zoom and ask how you can help it's really just that simple and then you've got it like, you know, show up and continue doing that work, but I will tell you that I think that
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: more people than ever.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, no Kings 2 was certainly a representation of this swell.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Really understand that we're going to have to do the work and do the work of building alternative systems that support as the ones from the government that we historically relied on, that social safety net, are either dismantled or crumble completely.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think one of the things that Angela talks about a lot too, she's really big and divisible.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I just want to add on to what you're saying, one of the things that you can do to fight fascism, it doesn't necessarily have to be about voting or even anything political.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It can literally be helping people in your community who are vulnerable and needed.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So whether it's donating to food kitchens, spending your time doing something helping out people in your community, I think that one of the things that one of the benefits of this awful time is I do think it's making people more aware of how important community is and helping out other people.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so on that note, I want to ask you the question of, okay, going back to
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: what is a good thing that come out of the fact that, you know, let's say we, you know, we don't get our subsidies and everybody's health insurance goes way up and they're probably not going to fund SNAP again.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we all know what the bad, you know, the bad part of this is, the negative side, what could be the positive side of this?
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, I mean, I do think there's a silver lining that we finally got the House back in session and thereby got Adelita Grihalva sworn in finally and that led us to the discharge petition with regard to Epstein.
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So none of that would have happened otherwise.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I heard a few people speculating that this was like five D chess by Schumer to get this done and I actually don't think that's what it was.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't either.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is a silver lining to this situation, but it's not, it wasn't by design, you know, I, I am, I'm on the ACA and I will say that, you know, I'm my premiums are going up by almost 100% and I'm still about two young kids as I know, you know, and you know, it's terrifying to know that we've lost those subsidies, but but the flip side of this also is that
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was about time, I think, for certain aspects of those of us who are opposing fascism to understand that the senior leadership in the Democratic Party is not aligned with the idea of being in opposition.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're not actually taking steps to overtly fight back.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I honestly can't imagine a better leverage point than last Tuesday's election, and that's on top of the fact that Trump's poll numbers are in the toilet.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: that would have allowed for a more effective negotiation here, and so I think it is really important for people to understand that like we need fresh blood in the party.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: We need younger leaders.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: We need more progressive leaders.
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: We need people who are willing to fight and seeing this revealed for what it is.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I know has had a lot of people contacting organizations like run for something.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: to volunteer to run for office for the first time, which is amazing, but I also think that it's really really serious questions about, you know, what is the future of the Democratic Party going to be?
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think those are necessary questions.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: I see a lot of good coming out of that.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to see more people who are aligned with the Democratic Socialists, who are aligned with the Working Families Party, still running on the Democratic Ticket, of course, but, you know, running for office because those folks are fearless, you know,
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, folks like that we've seen like the newly elected mayor of Seattle who just skated by.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's a renter.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's a mom.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, these are people who we actually need working on our behalf relying on old guard centrist Democrats who are used to working across the aisle who maybe haven't recognized that what we're up against is a fascist movement, not just the old school Republican party.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Seeing those folks where who they are really creates new opportunities for us to do things differently and get new candidates into office.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and when you mentioned Mondani and then Democratic Socialism, so I, I mean, I consider myself like an Elizabeth Warren Democrat, right?
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'd like for you because there's, there's a lot of people out there.
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been critical of Democratic leadership and people going to upset with me, and I'm not going to shut up about it.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm not going to shut up about it.
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, it doesn't mean I'm anti-democrat.
• 22:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It just means that, you know, they are elected officials.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: They work for us, and so if we want them to behave differently, it is, that's what democracy is all about.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Standing up and speaking, truth to power, speaking to the people who are representing us.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I understand that the,
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the GOP or, you know, I don't even like to call them that anymore.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: The regime, they're the bad guys.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that the Democrats with the bad guys, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know all that.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need a lecture on that.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like we could always do better, right?
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yes.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want you to kind of, how, you know, because I see a lot of centrist Democrats, just regular, not lead in leadership, just, you know, people on blue scar or whatever.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not liking Mondani or mom-dummy.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always say his name or mom-dummy.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, whether it's AOC or any of these people.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you distinguish what is democratic socialism to you?
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm going to take the same answer that Mom Donnie gave on our MLB show like the day before the election because he was asked what is it and what he said was it means that I believe in the dignity of every human being.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's that sums it up in a nutshell.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you want to get into policy, it does mean that.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: government is there to provide for the basic needs of human beings, to provide things like universal health care, to provide things like social safety nets for elders and for disabled folks, to really make sure that nobody falls through the cracks, right?
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And to make sure that workers are supported, that unions are uplifted, and that the rich do not get to run away with enormous amounts of money without paying their fair share.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, those are all things that I think most of us would align with in the democratic party to be honest.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I do think there's this thing of people getting afraid of the word socialism and some of that is generational.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, there's still some like red scare stuff going on with the first.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think for some folks that hear the word socialism and they panic because you've been told that, you know, socialism, democratic socialism is not socialism, but democratic socialism is bad quote unquote without actually even really knowing what it is.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when you look at the policies that mom Donnie is putting forward, their things like make the buses free so that everybody can get back and forth to work, provide free supermarkets for people who are poor so that they can get what they need to eat, right?
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Find ways of freezing the rent so that housing costs are not over the moon.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the irony of this is that mom Donnie was actually able to bring over to vote for him
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: people who had voted for Trump just last year because these platforms is one that really recognizes the needs of working families, right?
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So part of this moment I think is that we need to educate folks about the fact that democratic socialism is still a democracy.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: It just aligns with certain principles about what the government is supposed to do to uplift and uphold the dignity of every person.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Mom Donnie won by huge numbers without throwing anybody under the bus.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so we have a lot to learn from that and I think it's really significant.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, Mom Donnie was photographed yesterday with Elizabeth Warren, who's entirely on board with what he's doing.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it's not as though there's really that much of a goal between folks who have run on very progressive platforms and Mom Donnie.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I just have to shout out, I think a lot of what's happening with him is actually a Zalama phobia more than it's actually, you know, a fear of socialism.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I also want to remind people that the police department, the fire department, public schools, public libraries, fixing the streets.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's all socialism, right?
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Democratic socialism.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're already experiencing it to a degree, even though some of it's being taken away from us.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's already been here.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what social security is.
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what Medicare is.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what Medicaid is.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, I'm all, I absolutely follow everything.
• 26:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: If Elizabeth Warren says it, yes, I just blindly agree with her because she's
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so now I want to ask you, okay, like I said, we saw Tuesday a big blowout, right, a big blue wave.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So now, how confident are you that we will get to the midterms and that they will happen?
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I have to say that, you know, I'm less worried about the things that, you know, folks are spending conspiracy theories about like, you know, somebody asked me yesterday if I thought that voting machines were going to be stolen.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that we have to understand that the regime doesn't have the people power right now to carry out even the things they want to do with us.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 27:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the idea that they're going to come into your individual polling place and steal your machines, let alone when there's backups for those is really not a rational fear.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we are going to see them when we are seeing them attempting to do voter suppression in other ways.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: this redistricting in Texas, which now California Prop 50 is past that will make a difference to counterbalance it.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing efforts to counterbalance it in Virginia and in New York State, various other blue states.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we do have to be aware of what's happening at the state level with regard to the voter suppression efforts.
• 27:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that also once again leads back to community organizing and being involved in your own community so that you know what's happening because elections are administered differently from state to state.
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's another thing I think a lot of people don't understand is that the election decisions, the official responsible for the county could be your attorney general could be your.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Secretary of State really depends on where you live.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're not looped into that locally, you're not going to know what's going on or how to fight back against efforts to engage in voters suppression at the state level.
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's one thing.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: But as far as what we're looking at for the mid-terms, the interesting thing about the results from last week is that the folks who won really big, right, by numbers that were completely unpredictable, you know, Mikey Cheryl won the
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: These folks consistent, by the way, with Mom Donnie, were running on platforms of affordability and accountability, right?
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And safety.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, there's a new emerging platform across the party.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, you know, I got to point out, like, Mike and Cheryl is of that, right?
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Abigail Spanberger worked for the CIA.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are not people who we would think are radical socialists, right?
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: But they're hunting on similar principles that are really about bringing down the cost of living for every American, making the circumstances of working families better, and then also pushing back against the fascist policies of the Trump administration.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we've seen that sell everywhere, right?
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: That particular combination has now sold all over the country.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we saw election last week, even local races that were really quite extraordinary on this run using similar platforms.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: From, you know, it's early days heading into 2026, but I've had some conversations this week about how people are feeling about it with others who are in similar areas as me.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And folks are feeling like as long as we are running energized candidates who are not sacrificing anyone who are not trying to like,
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: white male voter into the party.
• 29:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have a good shot and, you know, I think I've also talked to some friends of mine here who are from marginalized communities after last week's election who also are feeling more secure about the future direction of the country next year.
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean they're not going to fight tooth and nail, it doesn't mean the trumps are not going to scream that the midterms are stolen, if we take back the house, send it.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone should be prepared for that, but at the same time, I think we all know what we need to do now, right?
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: We need to run great candidates who are fighters, who won't sacrifice anybody, we need to get behind those campaigns, we need to work our asses off to make sure our neighbors are aware of who's running and that they need to get out and vote, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess that's the best way to put it.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want to vote for whoever is going to shut these fucking leaf blowers up.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you can hear them, but they're so loud outside.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to switch over, just for a minute, I want to talk about this because I talk about this to everybody and it's kind of like a pastime for me to, whether it's listening to political predictions or even people reading tarot cards on when Trump's going to die.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just basically because I like being in that kind of world.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll just go on the political predictions like I was listening to some guy.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who he was.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was on YouTube and he was just giving his opinion.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, he was talking about how he thinks Trump is going maybe to last five to seven months, which is interesting because what's his name?
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Keith Edwards.
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: interviews a doctor.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's interviewed him twice.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this doctor insists that I think probably back in the summer, I think Trump had six to eight months to live.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the whole point of this is, we see that he's unhealthy.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: We see that he's cemented.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's falling asleep all the time.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are these mysterious lumps in his clothing and everyone's wondering, you know, what medical devices keeping him alive?
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're never going to know for sure, but the idea here is that he's not healthy and the big question and the big debate if this comes to pass for, you know, whether he dies of natural causes or he's 25th Amendment out because he can't speak anymore, whatever the deal is.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: If JD vances the president, how do you feel about that?
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's two ways of thinking there's the one way that he's like smart Trump and the other way is that he is not popular and he's just never going to.
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: really make as much trouble as Trump as even though he'll be dangerous that he's not quite as dangerous as Trump.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you feel about all of this?
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, it's a good question.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been asked about a JD Vance presidency a bunch of times and you know, we obviously, none of us knows what's going to happen next.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, he's a really important point for organizing.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I struggle with a lot of people being like all hope is lost and I'm like,
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: But one of the things that I think about when I think about advanced presidency is that he is backed by so many American oligarchs, right?
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Peter Teele, Elon Musk, folks who are really invested in the idea of creating a society that is for the super wealthy only, and everybody else kind of falls by the wayside.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: But...
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jady Vance is pretty much universally despised by what him in the Senate, and he doesn't have the charisma, he doesn't have the pull of Trump's malignant narcissism to hold the base together.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of people who also because so much of Maga is so virulently racist, really despised the fact that he's married to a woman of color and has multiracial children.
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So these are all factors that could need to crumbling of the mug of base.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the things that we have to think about here is that cults usually fall apart when the leaders are no longer around.
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is I have real questions about whether or not
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: the pull of allegiance to Trump in the House and the Senate GOP would be there for President Vance.
• 33:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I wonder.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it will be much easier for people who, you know, I think these people are cowards, right?
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like if you run for office, you've got to do the right thing whether or not you're afraid that somebody's going to make death threats against you.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I get death threats online all the time.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you've gotten them.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Continue doing our jobs, right?
• 34:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a, there's a way in which though the people who claim to be afraid of blowback from the Trump base will be less afraid.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that may lead to a real shift in the power dynamics on the hill.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And who knows where that goes.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, I also just have to point out that, you know, he's going to have to dominate his own vice president.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's going to have to pass by a majority.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: house in the Senate, if Trump is no longer in office, if we take back the house in the Senate, that means there's a vice president that has to be approved by a majority of Democrats, that raises other questions, you know, what Vance regime would look like, Vance administration would look like.
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I also just, I'm not sure that the kind of nonsense that we've seen from people like Higgseth, from people like Cash Patel, is going to be tolerated if Trump
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I think Vance is a very scary figure because of who he's backed by, but simultaneously, I don't have a lot of confidence in his ability to hold everything together.
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, if that's how it goes, we're going to see how it plays out.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that it's going to create opportunities.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: The weaknesses will create opportunities for greater political change, and people should be prepared to organize for every potential outcome.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I like to just kind of throw in there that there's also the element of you know mystery when it comes to if Donald Trump is no longer the president that there's going to be this I don't even know what to describe it there's going to be something that we can't even factor in right now because we don't know exactly how that would all play out.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, like you said, anything could happen tomorrow that could change the trajectory.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if something big like that happened, there's the obvious stuff that we can predict.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then there's always that, you know, kind of, hmm, I kind of like liken it to when you're, I mean, this is a negative way to describe it, but like when you're at a concert or when you're with a large group of people, there can be that one spark.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: that sends like that group into a rage and a panic, and everyone starts beating and trampling each other.
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like there could be this spark, energetic spark, that could just switch things up, and we don't know, because that's an element of surprise that will be there if and when he departs during this, you know, I don't even want to call it his term.
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I said, I don't want to be you.
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: The one thing I will say about is that I do think that whenever he's out of office, because that day will come for whatever reason, whenever he's out of office, I think we are going to see an enormous attempt by certain people in the GOP to whitewash and develop amnesia about their prior allegiances to Maga because
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: That that's something that seems to me to be pretty obvious and I by the way this all circles back to Epstein because I do think there is a real awakening happening right now in certain elements of the GOP Thomas Massey of course leading this effort to get the Epstein files released that and he said something similar to this I'm paraphrasing this but a couple of days ago Thomas Massey who I am no fan of I just want to make this really clear said something along the lines of like this is your legacy and do you really want to know
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: come 2030 or 2035 that you voted to protect a pedophile and a sex trafficker.
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the legacy that you want?
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, I think some of this, you know, even with Trump in office is starting to circle around that people are recognizing that the allegiance has a cost.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not saying, I know there have been situations where people have said something similar to that.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: with regard to impeachment and other things, but I really do think that this is one of those things where it's kind of like a watershed moment.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it is like, do you want to align yourself with it?
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then down the road, I'm convinced that there are going to be people who claim I was never with him.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I never had anything to do with this.
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good thing we have tape.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 37:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 37:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the last thing I want to talk about is you just recently did a video on how to stop authoritarianism.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just want you to share some of those tactics with us.
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it touches on a lot of the things that we've actually already talked about, but I'll make it clear, you know, one of the things that people need to keep in mind here is that there are way more of us right now, and people who are actually aligned with Maga.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things that that means is that we've got to understand that the way in which the authoritarian regime works is that it tries to divide us, it tries to scare us, it tries to isolate us so that we feel like there's no point in fighting back.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's part of how, you know, the propaganda is working, it's part of why they're bombing random fishermen in this, you know, on the high seas, it's part of why they're randomly kidnapping our neighbors off the street because they want us to self-police because they don't have the manpower to actually do it.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So one of the things that we have to remember here is that the way in which we start to, not even start, continue fighting back is by being in community with others who are doing the same.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that means that again, you've got to choose one to two issues that you really care about.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to get aligned with organizations that are already doing that work.
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you've got to keep showing up.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: One thing that's really helpful here that I always tell people is, understand what you're good at.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what are the skills that you've acquired in your professional life, your personal life?
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Have you run a family?
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Have you run a business?
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you know how to run a spreadsheet?
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you send emails?
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you write?
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are all things that movements need.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people think that the only way that you can push back against authoritarianism is through protest and being at the front of a protest with a megaphone.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: to fight authoritarianism actually requires like people who can run things, right?
• 39:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Who can strategize, who can organize the back end of it.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so knowing what you're good at allows you to then show up for causes that you care about and figure out how you can plug in, right?
• 39:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the thing to remember here is that I often use the example of the French resistance, right?
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: The French resistance worked in small cells of people.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Many of whom did not know who was in the next cell in the next town over, right?
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were coordinated in particular.
• 40:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: secret ways to radio and otherwise, but they operated in small community cells to actually start fighting back against the Nazis, protecting their neighbors.
• 40:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: The model right now is similar, which is that we all need to be organizing in our own communities to protect people, to keep them safe, to keep them alive, to keep them fed.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also need to show up for protests when the opportunity is there.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we need to understand that
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: everybody is doing this in communities across the country.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that is what creates momentum then for really shifting the power that authoritarian regimes have over us.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Once we start to recognize that our collective power exists in that kind of base level work, it's much easier to understand that like millions of people organizing nationwide actually stand a chance of changing the trajectory of this country.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, all right.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's a lot, and please follow Elizabeth because she's so epic smart and you learn stuff.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, and not only that, I mean, look, everything that she's saying, everything that Angela from Park Rose permaculture and what I try to echo as well is all hope is not lost.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know at the beginning of this year, so many of us, including myself, I mean, I had a knot in my stomach for six weeks.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was terrified.
• 41:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what to do with myself, and now that things are starting to, it looks like, come together for our benefit, even though we did this to ourselves, obviously the people who voted for Kamala did not do this, but as a collective, we did this to ourselves, and we put ourselves in the situation.
• 41:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so rather than just lay down and say it's over, ask, how can I make this better?
• 41:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what good can come from it because if we take on that attitude, then number one, we don't capitulate and lie down and give them power automatically, which is what they want from us.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it opens up, you know, so, oh, maybe I can do something.
• 42:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you said, it doesn't matter how many followers you have because if you have one follower and you post something, that could go out to thousands of people.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're being really negative and you hit another person who's having a bad day, you're going to help bring them down or you're going to help lift them up.
• 42:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So who would you rather be?
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd rather be the one who says, fuck these people, we're taking democracy back.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there is already damage right now.
• 42:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be more damage.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like we can use this to make a better country.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just going to take a while.
• 42:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we have to do the people who come after us.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what I always say to people is like, you know, in addition to you only need one follower, think about whether or not your actions could save one of your neighbor's lives, be one child.
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: What that make it worth it for you to get involved?
• 42:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And inevitably, the answer is yes.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so when we start to recognize that it's really these small actions that build to a collective movement and a collective wave of pressure, it becomes much easier to get involved.
• 43:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I agree with you.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that people need to understand
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Who you are?
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can make a positive impact for change right now in this environment.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so please tell us where to find you a little bit.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you can follow me on blue sky, where I am at EC McLaughlin.
• 43:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I have two YouTube channels.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, one where I do regular news and political and legal analysis, that is resistance-lived ECM.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the ripple effect institute, which of course, as I mentioned
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: community for strategic change agents trying to make generational change has a YouTube channel where we actually do free activism training every week.
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's where you saw my authoritarianism video.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what we do on that channel is really try to give people support to be a part of positive change right now.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is at Ripple Effect Institute on YouTube.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Very cool.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well thank you so much for hanging out with me and sharing your wisdom.
• 44:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's always great to be here.