Latest / Anele and the Club on 947 / Madlanga Commission 101 with Thembekile

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Madlanga Commission 101 with Thembekile · Anele and the Club on 947

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake up with a pang and the club on nine
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: four seventh.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: So for the past year, it feels like a whole year.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: It's been just over a year since the briefing that
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: led to the dramatic events, because it was the sixth
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: of July that got us here.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: And this is why when General Kannazi opens his mouth,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: we're just like, oh, what's he What's he gonna say now?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Because the last time he opened his mouth, things change
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: in this country forever.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Now here's the thing.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I've not seen the numbers, but I'm pretty sure you
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: can vouch that news channels have seen a saw of
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: ratings since the Madlanga Commission came about.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, since the start of the Matlanga commission. That
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: so you've got an unusually high number, especially if people
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: who watch during the day, because it starts at half
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: past nine in the morning and normally it'll finish at
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: around four and at any given time there are more
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: than half a million people watching on just the news channels.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So when you look at the streams, for example, I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: know they SABC runs a daily stream. On that stream,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: you can find out to two hundred thousand views in
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: a day.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: The reason I want to have this conversation is because
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: somebody tweeted that they saw somebody at the gym running
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: on the treademill listening to the Madlanga Commission.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Catching up, catching up on the Madlanga Command.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: I think I think part of it's been because of
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: the so many explosive details that have come out, right,
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: and that's why we're all interested, going what's happening here?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Explosive and entertaining.
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: I'm establishing a judicial commission of inquiry. Sends a WhatsApp
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: to Vusimusi kat Machala, the.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Minister of Police, mister sands and on leave of absence.
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: And this syndicate involves politicians who are currently serving in parliament.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: It's all to do with the allegations that she leaked
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: a criminal docket.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Now, I guess the thing some of us don't know
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: the full story. We're just catching bits and pieces. But
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: you and you want to be part of the conversation.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Malanga commissioned this, did you hear on the Malana Commission?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: And you just need somebody to sit in the corner
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: of the TV to bring you up to speed, to
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: almost press pause when something happens, They press pause and
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: then that little person in the corner says, Okay, so
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure you're confused.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: This is what's happening here.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: And the reason we hear is because this one did
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: this to this one did that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: That's all we need in neg that's all we need.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: It will take several mind maps to work through all
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the evidence. I mean, for some of the people who
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: are implicated, there are thousands of pages worth of WhatsApp exchanges,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: bank statements, et cetera. So no, ladies, I'm here to
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: reassure your husband is not cheat India. He's just streaming
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the Matlanga Commission on his wild That's what he's actually
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: been doing since late last year. And can I just
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: ask a stupid question.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Everybody who's been at the Malanga Commission, who's had to tasteify,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: who's been called, they're all connected to one thing.
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: No.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: So, by the way, we call it the Mazanka Commission,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: but what it is is is the Judicial Commission of Inquiry.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: It looks into criminalityolitical interference and corruption in the broader
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: criminal justice system infrastructure. I'll give you an example. So
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: on the sixth of July last year, and then Kanazie
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: the police Commissioner in Guaznadal. None of us had an idea.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: It was a Sunday morning cause a briefing. Oh, we
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: start promptly, he's in special uniform and then he says
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: that there are people in the police, in the judiciary
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and in politics who are conniving, colluding with criminals basically
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to steal, to rob to kill. Right, that sort of
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: thing where you asked if it's about one thing, not necessarily,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I'll just give you a breakdown. Just this past week,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with IDAC and alleged drumdoing at the Investigating
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Director against Corruption because that had to do with criminal
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: charges that were bought brought against members of Crime Intelligence
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: for the appointment of a woman Dino mcgwailey, who has
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: hired at Crime Intelligence, and these people were charged with
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: fraud and corruption for that appointment. And what the Commission
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: has been struggling with is if there was an ad
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: for a post that went out externally and someone applied
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and they got the job, how do we land at
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the charges of fraud and corruption? So this is where
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: for Ruth Khan and them are So for z Khan
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: is separate. He is to do with this way I'm
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: going to take it from the top. You gotta take
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: it from the top. So let me. I'm giving you
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: just the breakdown now of the multiple streams, because that's
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: what the Commission calls. You've got a stream that's dealing
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: with IDAC related issues, right I've just told you about.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Then you've got a drug stream. That's where other names
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: start to come in. Then people like for Oz Khan,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: where in Durban and in Djoeburg there were two drug
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: basts in the last five years, right, huge consignments where
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: at the scene there were people who came from leave
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to respond to mad to major drug basts. But when
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: they get there, for example, in the Joeburg one, the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: drugs are touched by people with their bare hands. There's
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a traffic official involved in this this raid what is
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: now known as the Riton drug bust, right, so the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: scene is completely mishandled. For us Khan, the crime Intelligence
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: General who you referenced, then arrives at the scene and
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: orders the arrest of the first group of cops who
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: are at the scene. So that then turns into a
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: turf war between separate members or units of the police service.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: So that's the one drug bust in drovert.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: So we've got IDEC, we've got drug bus.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: What's the other pillar of corruption? There just as a whole,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: the whole, the whole of it, all of it the municipality. Remember, yes,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Jules mcquanazi was the acting chief of the Eculiny Metropolice
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Department when Kat Macala's vehicles were fitted with blue lights
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: that belonged to the city. These are cars. They were
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: driven by civilians, which is not allowed by Lord. Kat
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Mcala's kid wife was a also driving the convoy that
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: had these lights, right. And then in Akuruleni, that's where
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Macala is alleged to have made all of this money
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: from contracts that he would have benefited from sam and Twani.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: You know Medicaire twenty four. Familiar with Medicare twenty four.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: It was supposed to be a three hundred million rand
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: more than three hundred million rand contract that Macala's company
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: would have received to provide services health services for members
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: of the police service. But it was awarded irregularly. But
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: you said we're going to go back. I want you
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: to listen to what quanas he said when he set
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: things off, and.
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: I can confirm before the South Africans today that the
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: investigation which these members were involved within houting has and
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: musked the syndicate. And this syndicate involves, amongst others, politicians
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: who are currently serving in parliament. The law enforcement officers
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: include the members of the s Adophan Police Service, the
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: Metropolice and Coreational Services.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Zero eight to four double zero double zero nine four seven.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Tim Killer's got all the answers. Anything that you do
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: not understand about the Madlanga Commission. We are spending the
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: next hour just trying to bring you up to speed
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and calming through everything with a fine tooth comb. A
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: question I have so last year sixth of July that
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Conazi says that right, then sets off the Malanga Commission.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Then the President responds with an evening address because there's
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: been so much talk questions about what are you going
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to do, because even the Minister of Police sends the
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: sun had been placed at the center of this alleged
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: wrongdoing because that's when the Political Killings Task Team issue
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: came up because CUNU had in December of twenty twenty
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: four sent out a later, by the way, during Christmas
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: holidays saying let's disband the Political Killings Task Team. Why
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: because he argues that it was not feasible financially, it
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: was costing too much. He then says, a task team
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: by definition, is not meant to last forever. It comes in,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: does a job and lead, Yes, who is he protecting?
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: But you see now they're saying the Political Killings Task
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Team was looking too close to home at people who
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: would have benefited from its disestablishment.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So in Tanta Quanas he says, the ball rolling And
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: since then, how many verticals have we had? And by
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: vertical I mean the I deck or the Akrollini one
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: that we've had because they isolated in a way, this
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: is what I'm getting, But they're.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Not really all that isolated. So there are like I said,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: so there are multiple things you've got. Yes, you've got IDEC.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: You've got broader police issues, which is where SUN and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the Political Killing Task Team come in. Right, You've got
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: these drug bas where police officers are basically accused by
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: the way of trying to steal the drugs for themselves.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: That's the bigger allegation. And then we're still to deal
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: with the part about the judiciary if it does come
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: up in the commission, because there's already one judge I
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: think already who's had to be suspended for allegedly receiving
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: money to sway a decision.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: But this is part of it, right, because you start
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: pulling one thread and then you starting Oh, but there's
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: all the stuff that's connected to that thread. Oh, all
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: the stuff's connected to that thread.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, all of your questions ready to be fielded?
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Oh one one.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Eighty eight thirty eight, nine four seven. What do you
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: not understand about the Madlanga Commission? Ask anything like? Okay,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: are any.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Of these people gonna go to jail?
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Because now we have been watching a lot of criminality
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: being discussed on our TV. When is anybody gonna go
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: to jail? When is anybody gonna be on trial? Zero
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: eight four double zero double zero nine four seven? It
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: is the Madlanga Commission files exposed on nine four seven.
• 9:33
  Speaker 7: Tekila, I just like, I just have two questions. How
• 9:36
  Speaker 7: long is this gonna go on for? And and what
• 9:40
  Speaker 7: is the like? What will the outcome be? Will anybody
• 9:44
  Speaker 7: actually ever go to jail?
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Well, the commission it was supposed to actually today is
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: significant because we were supposed to have concluded its public
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: hearings last week of end of July, and then it
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: was extending and sublitter report at the end of this
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: month August. Now they've been given until November to handle
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: all of that because there was just the more they dug,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the more the more they found. Literally, So send it
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to your point about whether anyone will actually be held accountable.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: We're already seeing arrests like people like Julius Mukanazi, the
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: suspended deputy chief of the Iquliny Metropolice Department. They've got
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: a case going emanating from the Mashlanga Commission. His co
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: accused include Image Mashazi, the former city manager, the former
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: head of HR and Eculin That Lashka is also in
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the dock, as is Kemi Bahari, the head of legal services,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and in fact, Glaciaga and Kemy Bahari were fired last
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: week all to do with this scandal.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, so got it that they're in the dock. But
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: we're also seeing that judges are being bought right there
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: is allegedly that judge and we're seeing that through the commission.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: So what does it help if the same people are
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: going to be in the dock who don't know which
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: judges are you know.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Well, it's only it's all depend so it depends on
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: whose name is brought up, right, because it's similar if
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: someone says, oh, they're all the presenters of nine for
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: seven are corrupt, they can't file suspend us all. It's
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: about someone saying, well, timber Giles corrupt, then that is investigated.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Like I said, there's already a criminal matter against one
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: judge who's accused of taking a bribe. So hopefully between
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: now and October, when the public hearings end, we'll get
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a bit more detail on that. But remember again to
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the context of this and how we got here. When
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: cam Connas he spoke at that briefing on July sixth,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: one of the things that he was aggrieved about was
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: again the political Killing's tasting thing where there were these
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: more than one hundred and twenty dockets that were taken
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: from him from the PKTT and he said, if you
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: had just left me, I was sitting in my corner.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Had you left me and my dockets in case of
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: n we wouldn't be here, wouldn't have uncovered all of this.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And when Minister Sensom Kunu then had to explain why
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the dockets were taken and what would happen to the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: members of the PKTT. He had a bit of trouble
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: explaining that they.
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: Are understanding that is written down Plagenhoit including after the
• 12:00
  Speaker 8: effect was that they would be re recruited if I
• 12:05
  Speaker 8: could use that into serious and violent crimes, including in
• 12:11
  Speaker 8: documents on the fifth and sixth. So this is now
• 12:15
  Speaker 8: from the National Commissioner from Spear. What Sbia subsequently says
• 12:20
  Speaker 8: could loosely be interpreted as to say, if you were
• 12:25
  Speaker 8: from Limpopo and you are in p kt T, in
• 12:30
  Speaker 8: case that you'll go back to your province.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: But to Madame Robert.
• 12:35
  Speaker 9: Minister, now we can't do that. Please don't do that.
• 12:38
  Speaker 9: Sabia's letter doesn't do that. It doesn't. It says go
• 12:43
  Speaker 9: back to your station.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 12:45
  Speaker 9: Please accept that's what it's not. Try and reconstructed. He
• 12:49
  Speaker 9: may come back, he may he will come and testify.
• 12:53
  Speaker 9: Maybe he'll tell us what his intention was. But you
• 12:55
  Speaker 9: cannot interpret it to suit your evidence.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Now now it's just wrong to do that.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: If you just joined us, Tempighillia is running us through
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: the Matlanga Commission so that no one is left behind.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: It's basically Metlanga one oh one, hears to bring everybody
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: in the city up to speed over this commission that
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: has grow uped the entire country.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: What is happening in that clip. So that was sinzem
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Kuno again now having to explain this vague letter that
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: he sent about the disestablishment of the Political Killings Task Team.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Again to remind you he did this at the height
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: of the December holidays between Christmas and New Year, where
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: he says this decision was made and he could not
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: explain what the actual plan was When you disband the unit,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: where do these people go who are part of the unit.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And he tries to say, wow, they would go back
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to their stations and join certain units and that's why
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: commissioner says blow, then says wow, not really read the letter.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: That's not what the letter says. What's the assumption there?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Why did he disband them? So again that the assumption here,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the working assumption, is that the Political Killing's Task Team
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: would have been disestablished because they were investedating certain people
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: who did not want the scrutiny of law enforcements and
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: who are who are powerful enough to make those calls
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: exactly so, who would have had alleged political links. But
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Sinzom going to denies that he would have had any
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: links to any criminals. He just out of by himself.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: He woke up in December, took time out of off
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: his holiday and said, you know what, enough.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Of that he assisted was an innocent decision that he
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: took in December based on financial as well as operational reasons.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: But not everyone is convinced.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Hope is insensuron like to ask you something, Tiviglip, because
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: she's a little bit confused over something. Hope tim Beergilla's
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: all ears, what do you want to ask money?
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: How are you money?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: How are you? I'm good?
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: Thanks?
• 14:42
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: Last year, the Woolies bags were changing when kat matau I.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Was in court.
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: So I felt so lessed out because I did not
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: understand what is it with this black Woolies bags? Can
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: you please explain how were they in relation to what
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: kat was doing?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: So what happened with the Woolies bag was there was
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: evidence late last year. This was when they were still
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: talking about Muzikat Madala and Gattis. So Katie Malife, who
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: by the way, was arrested at his house in Santon.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: He's accused of orchestrating the med of Armantois. Remember the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: engineer who was who was killed in was it for
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Renach And I think it might have been at the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: time because he had uncovered something that he shouldn't have seen.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And they were saying that the cash that was used
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: basically to move bribes around. Seen for example, when you
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: look at Gattis Omleife's property where a police officer was
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: apparently seen carrying the money in a black Woolies bag.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And that's how the bag became so famous because it
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: was apparently being used as the mode of transport we say,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: for the bribes. Hope is that has that answered your question?
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: Yes, thank you so much.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It's how the money was moved around. It was. It
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: was the twenty twenty sixth version of an ewalid Wois bag.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Woolie also has been mentioned a few times. Yeah, is
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: this commission catching straight? It's catching straight.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: They're like guys. Last month day came up because Suliman Kareem,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: another alleged corrupt business person, he couldn't go to the commission.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: He canceled twice because he said he wasn't wold. And
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: then one of you knows the people said to the
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: commission high I've just seen him at my shopping center
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: and he was also at the Woolies. He was also
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: at Kawai by the way, we learned recently that he
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: did get a wrap.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: That peanut but but peanut that that bomb is amazing.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I absolutely understand. Why is there on the way more
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: questions around the mission, anything you don't understand and anything
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: you just feel like because none of this is over
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: our heads. But because there's so much lingo and so
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: much legal jargon that is used, you can't feel left
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: by the wayside when it comes to this madlannel commission
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: where you feel like ish, you know, this is too
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: high bra for me, but it isn't and it affects
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: you directly.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the thing I think. I think it's just
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: so vast. That's what we realized it. They've n covered
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: so much stuff that it gets confusing. Who is way
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: what's happening?
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Before we get into headlines. I just want to throw
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: a question that I have that Tim Beginner's going to
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: answer when you come back. Can I just call the
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: commission and be like, hey, can you guys investigate this
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: guy right who?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Who tells who that Okaye.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Who decides that what is going to be investigated the
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Medlana Commission, Right.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I think I think that will point too. Who's on
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the commission? Okay?
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: One one eight thirty eight nine four seven.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: If you have questions.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Around the Medlana Commission, things that you need to explain
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: as well, we're taking your calls. You can send us
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a voice note zero eight four double zero double zero
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: nine four seven.
• 17:30
  Speaker 10: I'm so grateful you guys to talk about this because
• 17:33
  Speaker 10: I feel like I'm getting a six before nine thirty
• 17:35
  Speaker 10: because I'm so addicted to the commission. I don't even
• 17:38
  Speaker 10: know one of two and it finishes. It's quite quite addicted.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: The Madanga Commission has gripped the country. Everybody is speaking
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: about it. But the thing is it's all in droops
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: and drabs, right, some some some of the narrative. We're
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: getting left behind also because not all of us can
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: be watching the Midlana Commission from half past nine until
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: four o'clock. Okay, this is why we've got Tim Bighillia.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: This man knows everything about that commission. In fact, for
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the past two weeks, SABC News has stationed you at
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: the commission, Timigilla, Right, Oh.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm tired. I'm grateful that I've seen today.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of you to go around,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: but this is too much.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Okay enough, But Timkola, thank you so much because what
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: you've done for the past, for the last forty minutes
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: is bring everyone up to speed and explain it in
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: layman's terms as to what is going on in the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Medlanga Commission. The one thing I can understand for sure
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: that it's not just one case. It's not just one thing.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: There are a few pillars here. Yes, there's a comment
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: through it that can be pulled through every now and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: then because of the deep dug and the world of corruption,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: but it is not just one thing.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got to do with the police, right, It's
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: got to do with different spheres of the police and
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: what's happening between them. It's got to do with powerful
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: people in our jurisdictions that are influencing and that's what
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: they're trying to unravel. Why is there so much influence?
• 18:56
  Speaker 11: I just want to know, Timbigill, what's what's your take
• 19:00
  Speaker 11: on this trend of masangelitis. There seems to be a
• 19:04
  Speaker 11: lot of witnesses falling ill just before they have to testify.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: How many have done that?
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: How many have said we call Mike good anymore?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Quite a few. So Andrea Johnson, who wrapped up last
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: week avricate Andrew Johnson, the former head of IBAC. She
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: missed her first session because she had apparently becomes sick
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: from her own testimony. Now last week know that she
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: had a panic attack apparently just before she was supposed
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: to appear. Eventually she made it. Suliman Kareem, the alleged corrupt,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: the alleged corrupt Northwest businessman. He apparently still undergoing treatment
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and unable to appear at the commission. The evidence leader
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: let his condition slip, but we're not really supposed to
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: say it because he'd wanted that kept confidential. So he
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: hasn't appeared yet. Mike Fanveig was music Kat Makala's business
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: partner from Medicare. He also panic attack as well, was
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the story that is given, and he did not appear.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: So what they did in his case is they just
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: raid his evidence into their court and he can decide
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: if he wants to come back to respond to those
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: issues or respond can be forced to come?
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: Can?
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Can?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Can the law say you will come and you will
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: tastify And why aren't we doing that yet?
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: The Commission does have powers to subpoena people, and there
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: have been people who have been subpoena who are reluctant
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: to appear, and that's why, for example, in the Kareem case,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: there was a postponement application recently that the Commission had
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: to deal with and they still expect him to appear
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: this month, still despite his legal team saying he's so sick.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: In fact, they are taking the Kareem appearance so seriously
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: that one of the things that was on the table
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: was that the Commission wanted its own doctor possibly to
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: go and check and verify whether he is as sick
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: as he says. My question is around.
• 20:48
  Speaker 12: The top five drug kingpins. They've only mentioned one is
• 20:53
  Speaker 12: the plan or something to uncover the other four members?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I would imagine that we're going to get there right.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: So the people who are accused basically of involvement in
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: shall we say, who are accused of being the criminals,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: influencing police members, et cetera. So kat Matalla's name has
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: come up quite prominently. Gottis So Katie Malayfair has come
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: up as well, there's also been the mention of the
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: late taxi boss Jonathan ceb So you would imagine then
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: that if we do circle back, especially to the issues
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: around those those two drug raids, we're likely to hear
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: more names because in the evidence so far on the
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: drug issue, we're only hearing about alleged wrongdoing by members
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: of the police, and the Commission now has to get
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: to who if we're saying that the cops on the
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: scene were fighting to steal the consignments of drugs to
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: pass them on on to because in cases then the
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: drugs that were at the Hawk storage facility were in
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: fact stolen from there and no one knows where they are.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: There's an issue about what was brought in and it
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: was eventually found in the room. Moodissee Modissa and Modisa don.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Ran Modissa talk to us about you in Centurion.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: What's your question for Timbiguine?
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: Good morning, Tim.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: My question is Hanguani Maumela.
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: Please let the Commission not wrap up its work until
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: he appears.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: We want to know this guy. Where is he, who
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: is he, why is he so elusive and what has
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: come of him? Because we were all for two weeks
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: we knew every car is he had three Lamborghinis and
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: blue Urus. We knew everything. We knew his.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: House here and sand hearth. Then the next thing nothing more, thank.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: You, mudy. And here's what it gets tricky. So we
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: are all familiar with the name of Hanguani Maumela because
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: he came up prominently in the Tembisa hospital investigation. We
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: remember basically hospital fans were literally looted by several cartels
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: once again syndicates and we're talking in the figure of
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: billions years. Yeah, so in that Timbisa issue, doesn't Babita Jokran,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the whistleblower, had flagged these these issues and was assassinated ultimately,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I think it was in twenty twenty one. But last
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: week Hawngady Mommella's name came up at the Commission and
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: when asked about it, the former head of IADAC, Andrea Johnson,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: said that that issue was not one that the office
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: was dealing with because the nature of the complaint did
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: not fall within its mandate. So that's where we are
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: on Maumela. But I don't think there's been any decision
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: by the Commission on whether they're going to call him
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: or not. It remains a possibility, and who decides what
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: gets investigated?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Could I call it to be like I think my
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: neighbors die.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: See, I mean you'd have to give them a bit
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: more because they then work on a bit of evidence
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: to build, shall we say, a case to look into.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, your neighbor would have to be connected to what
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: they're investigating. Just because they have the lights on all night,
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: that doesn't mean you can report them to commission.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: They cause bulletproof. CD and Krugersdorp, Good morning.
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: Good morning, Tean Mine morning, CD. Are you six years in?
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: This is my first time calling and I'm so excited.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, well the Madanna Commission will do that. Hey, it'll
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: make you pick up your phone and call the radio. Okay,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: city is all years coure my person is.
• 24:13
  Speaker 13: I haven't been paying so much attention. And last week
• 24:17
  Speaker 13: I saw this Indian lady Understand and they were playing
• 24:20
  Speaker 13: a recording. Somebody was telling, hey, hey, if the Madennal
• 24:24
  Speaker 13: Commission called you, please don't go there. And you know Margranda,
• 24:28
  Speaker 13: when you understand, he makes places and then they scare
• 24:30
  Speaker 13: you and they call you skin the country and it
• 24:33
  Speaker 13: was so funny. I was laughing, but at the same time,
• 24:36
  Speaker 13: I was so confused, what is happenings? Can just hear
• 24:39
  Speaker 13: that for me? Please?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Also, yes, that has trended beyond the word trending.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: I actually think this is why we're doing this things
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: today because when I watched that, as Tepic has explained
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: to me, what's going on here as well? Who is
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the dolly that was the young Indian girl?
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: So that's Drew Chanta rams me. She works for IDAC, right,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So Dushanta was at the commission because when her former
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: boss again Andrea Johnson that name again was at the commission,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: she mentioned as one of the people who were involved
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: in these controversial investigations that IDAC had launched at the time,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: including into issues around crime intelligence and again the employment
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: of Dinoo Makulu. Then turns out she had a twelve
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: minute recording of Andrea Johnson who had called her last
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: week during her evidence and she had basically the purpose
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: for the call when you listen to it, is that
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Andrea Johnson wanted to know from ram Sami where the
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: name or the names of the people who are going
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: to be charged in the crime intelligence case had come from.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: So ram Sami then says, no, you gave me the
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: name the names on a handwritten note, and then the
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: conversation progresses. The country okay.
• 26:03
  Speaker 10: Named anyway, because you can just see it's.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, So Andrea Johnson is hey, gorgeous? They yes, okay,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: what's going okay?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: So yes? What?
• 26:14
  Speaker 13: Yeah?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: So just what was Andrea Johnson protecting? So to wrap
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: up on the ramsam me things, she says, Andrea Johnson
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: had a nickname in the office. They called her flip
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: flop knee jerk because she never could hold the line
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: on any particular issue. Anyway. At the end of Andrea
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Johnson's appearance at the Commission last week, we went into
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: her relationship with Major General Feroz Khan, who works for
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Crime Intelligence. Remember he was allegedly shot while driving home
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: about a month ago, right, so he's another person who
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: must still go to the Commission. But Andrew and Farroux
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: said that they don't know each other. She said she
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: didn't want to take it further than a collegial relationship
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: where we know each other because we both work in
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: law enforcement. Then it came out that she and her husband,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: who also were in crime Intelligence, had gone to Khan's
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: fiftieth birthday and then from there, the commissions went through
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: WhatsApp conversations between Andrea Johnson and Feroz kh and to
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: borrow from the evidence leader Advocate law they had a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: very deep, very personal relationship, and in that relation the messages.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: What we learned from that is that Kahn and Andrea
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Johnson at some point that player would ask each other,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: what are you making for dinner? And then she said
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: to him, well, I'm bringing husband, daughter, and parrot for dinner.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: She says that never happened, but then can't greet her
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: with a hey, gorgeous. They also then profess how much
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: they miss each other in these texts. But apparently these
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: texts are so sensitive that the evidence leader, I mean,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: while they don't show any criminality, did not want to
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: read them because they're so so personal. In fact, at
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: some point, at some point, as Andrea Johnson was trying
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to deny the closeness of the relationship, advocates Ala said, please,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I beg you don't make me. Don't me fly these messages.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: But the can't thing you asked about protection at issue
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: with Andrea Johnson and Major General Kann is that she
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: leaked allegedly details from a docket a complaint that was
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: laid against him while she was still a prosecutor. So
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: your friend who's a prosecutor says, hey, Anela, Frankie has
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: come in. He's accused you of ABC and D and
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: then basically tells you which is not allowed because.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: Your job is to investigate.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And not to flag into the person to be like
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: you're being investigated, Chips. Who is this going to end badly?
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: For several people? I mean I mentioned for example that
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: in Nico Rolinni we've already seen people like Judas Mukanazi arrested.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: The head of HR has also been arrested, fired as
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: has been the head of Legal Services. The police commissioner
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: for Animasmola. He his arrest is controversial, but he's among
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: the police members who are in the dock in the
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Medicare twenty four matter. He's not accused of corruption. They
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: say he failed in his duties regarding what he said
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: he should have taken once he knew that there was
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the STDGY contract. There are other police officers who've already
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: been fired. What we're waiting for now is the President's
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: decision on sin zom Kuno's future. The police minister. He's
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: currently on leave The President has already received two reports
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: from the Commission. A third volume, the final one is
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: due in November. So now we're waiting to see what's
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: going to become of Senzo Sin at the end of
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: this process. That's the big political question. And who else
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: might get a raised Yeah, sure it's a lot. Okay,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: that's a lot.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Still care for Tim Gilly there you go. I think,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: don't you want to do.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Like a like a weekly like a little podcast for
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: us where you.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Just bring us up this we we were here, we
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: are here, we are going here.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: The stress from this will be more slimming than oz mpig.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: The generical Zempo got the real one, because you know
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: we have a discussion to do on that as well.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Anything I got wrong, Sorry, no, I don't think you
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: got anything wrong.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Carry on sending a void well zero eight four double
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: zero double zero nine four seven, running out of time. Yeah,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: but I think that those questions were gonna hang on
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: to them, and when we find time during the show,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: we'll just play a voice made and again and give
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the answers because we are all engaged, fixited that we
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: are all.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Eyes on the Madanga Commission.
• 30:20
  Speaker 9: Start to making your morning and the club on nine
• 30:26
  Speaker 9: four seven