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Prequel to The Outsiders - Treasure Planet Fan Reaction, The Outsiders Preview · This Film is Lit

• 0:11
  Speaker A: On this week's prequel episode, we follow up on our Treasure Planet listener polls and preview the outside. Hello and welcome back to this film is lit the Pockets where we talk about movies that are based on books. It's a prequel episode. We have some of the most feedback we've ever had, which is very exciting. Thank you for that. But we're gonna jump right into it with our patron shout outs. I put up with you because your father and mother were our finest patrons. That's why. Two returning patrons this week. Coming back at the Hugo award winning level, we have Laura Pinhaligon. Pinhalig. I don't know where the emphasis in that name.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, I don't either.
• 0:52
  Speaker A: Laura Pinhalagan. Pinhaligan. Pinhaligan. Let us know. My guess would be Laura Pinhalagan. That doesn't sound right. I don't know. I can't figure out where the emphasis goes. Anyways, thank you for jumping back in. And at the $2 Newberry a medal award winning level, we have Dylan Eldred. Thank you, Dylan. And as always, we have our Academy award winning patrons and they are Nicole Goble, Harpo Rat, Nathan, Vic Apocalypse, Mathilde Cottonwood, Steve. Teresa Schwartz, Ian from Wine country, Kelly Napier, Gretch Justgratch, Shelby says watch Thunderbolts that darn Skag and V. Frank. Thank you all for your continued support. Truly cannot thank you enough, Katie. Let's see what the people had to say about Treasure Planet.
• 1:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion man on Patreon. We had four votes for the movie, two for the book, and one listener who couldn't decide.
• 1:56
  Speaker A: Indeed. And I am going to do the comments this week because Katie is still getting over whatever illness she has. We think maybe a sinus infection, but she is still recovering and talking this much, I would ruin her. So I. I'm gonna do most of the talking. First up, from Kelly Napier. The main reason why I voted for the book over the movie is because I liked discovering the story of Captain Flint, the treasurer and who was after Billy Bones along with Jim. Instead of everyone being aware of everything right from the start, the little bit of mystery was fun and kept me more engaged in the story. I agree with y' all that the farting alien was so unnecessary. It feels so dismissive of the viewing audience as a whole to reduce the comedy down to lowest common denominator like that kids are witty. Let's not treat them like they're not. That is something the Muppet movies are amazing at. If that version of the movie had won the vote instead of this one. Getting really good jokes in that don't insult people's intelligence. I don't disagree, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with the Fart monster for little kids. I think it can be fun and fine. It's a little overdone in the movie, in my opinion, but I think kids do like stuff like that. Kids can also like smarter kids also like fart monsters, but kids also like fart monsters. So I think that's fine, I guess is my point. This era of Disney. This era of Disney was so hard. Lilo and Stitch, which is an amazing movie, was released in theaters less than five months before this film. And you can tell why the production on this was held up for so long. The art is amazing, but the plot felt thin and wooden, which is such a shame given the rich source material. Outside of Lilo and Stitch, the other Disney, not Pixar animated films released between 2001 and 2008 were Atlantis, the Lost Empire, which, also not as well known, is the better animated action adventure movie versus this one. Brother Bear, Home on the Range, Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons and Bolt before they finally got their act together, releasing the Princess and the Frog in 2009. That's a rough stretch. There are also a bunch of movies that I get confused with other movies.
• 4:00
  Speaker B: I haven't seen most of those ones.
• 4:03
  Speaker A: I don't think I've seen any of those movies.
• 4:05
  Speaker B: I've seen Brother Bear and I think I've seen parts of Chicken Little.
• 4:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 4:10
  Speaker B: But I'm pretty sure I've not seen any of the rest of those.
• 4:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think I've seen Atlantis, the Lost Empire.
• 4:16
  Speaker B: I think it might be the movie.
• 4:18
  Speaker A: That I was confusing with this one for parts of it. But yeah, I don't think I've seen any of the rest of those. Maybe Chicken Little, but I don't think so, man. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Kelly. Next up, Shelby. Shelby says watch Thunderbolts, I think is what current name is. I think you two like pirate things more than I do. Very well. Could be. We like pirate things more than a lot of people. I love Curse of the Black Pearl and Treasure Planet is a cult classic for a reason, but other than that, I only have a general interest for learning about historical pirates. I read Treasure Island a couple years ago mainly because I was planning to read a retelling, and these days I try to have read the original before I read the retelling. It was an odd experience. Usually when I read A classic. I can casually leave it in the background and not get lost. Treasure island sets a brisk pace with new characters throughout and ever changing locations. So I couldn't do that. I spent much of the book. That's that thing character from Treasure Planet. So that was fun. The movie takes the best elements of the book and gussies them up with a healthy splash of sci fi to really make it all pop. I was never not going to give it to the movie. Even if Doc Ock read me the book. Other thoughts? I'm pretty sure part of the reason Disney aged up Jim is so they didn't have to show a child shooting a gun. Even if it's a phaser. Could explain the sci fi elements too. Yeah, could be.
• 5:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, could be.
• 5:39
  Speaker A: The retelling of Treasure Island. I read. Does he even shoot a gun in the movie though? To be fair, does Jim shoot any guns?
• 5:44
  Speaker B: I'm sure he does at some point. Point probably. Like the phaser gun.
• 5:47
  Speaker A: The retelling of Treasure Island I read was a Clash of Steel by CB Lee. It's a gender swapped Treasure island that significantly ages down silver. It's also Sapphic and set in 1826 China. It features some important pirates from that time period too. If you love Treasure island and pirate stuff, you should check it out. It's a much slower burn, but worth your time. What did we just watch? That had a Chinese pirate in it.
• 6:13
  Speaker B: Are you?
• 6:13
  Speaker A: No, it's an animated thing. Cause Xena did. But I'm not thinking of Xena. I'm thinking of. I swear we watched.
• 6:19
  Speaker B: Well, you're not thinking of. Our flag means death. It was a while ago that we watched that. But it had Chinese pirates in it.
• 6:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think she might be based on a historic. Because that show is based on historical figures.
• 6:29
  Speaker B: Yes, there are a lot of historical figures in that.
• 6:32
  Speaker A: Stede Bonnet, whatever his name is the main character is based on. His actual historical.
• 6:37
  Speaker B: Blackbeard was also obviously an actual historical pirate.
• 6:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. So yeah, that might have been what I was thinking of. Because I think. I think. What's her name in that? The Chinese pirate lady who shows up.
• 6:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, she was like the pirate queen.
• 6:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. So anyways. And it's around that time period too. So although 1826 is late for pirates. That's interesting. That is not. Maybe not.
• 6:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, that is a little late for pirates.
• 7:00
  Speaker A: The golden era of pirates is like 16, late 1600s to late 1700s, I think. In that range. I can't remember exactly, but somewhere in that period.
• 7:08
  Speaker B: Katniss. Katniss.
• 7:14
  Speaker A: RIP Mr. Arrow. Gone too soon. Loved your banter with Captain Amelia, aka the best character.
• 7:20
  Speaker B: You know, I do think that we maybe could have done with a little bit more Mr. Arrow before he met his untimely demise.
• 7:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, I thought Brian was a Star Trek fan. No shout out for Dammit, Jim. I'm not a doctor when Amelia is hurt. Shaking my head. I did notice it. To be fair. I just didn't make a note of it. Because I will say as. As I am a Star Trek fan. I'm not a huge TOS guy. Like I've seen them. Fine.
• 7:44
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Speaker A: But I much prefer TNG Deep Space 9. Really? Those two are the main ones that I like. I've seen episodes from every series except for I haven't seen any of Strange New Worlds. But I've heard it's good. Was this Katie's first time reading Treasure Island? Because I'd be shocked to learn that I read both this and Dracula before you.
• 8:05
  Speaker B: It was my record. Classics is not great, if I'm being honest. Like they tend to have been things that I've avoided in the past.
• 8:16
  Speaker A: There you go. Immensely proud of us Treasure Planet fans for making this episode happen. My pick never wins the polls for the classics. Well, there you go. And it did. It eked it out at just barely one vote. Yes. Next up from Eric. Eric says this is the first time in a while that I read something specifically for the pod. I usually don't read or watch and just listen to the episode. Well, it's interesting to hear. I'm glad I did. I thought the book was a fun children's adventure. And as someone who only knows Black Sails for the K. Shit. Spoilers. It was fun to contrast all the stories about Flint dying drunk and raving in Savannah versus where the show leaves him. I think we'll get into this more later. Somebody else had a question.
• 8:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, and I'm. I don't remember enough about black sales.
• 8:59
  Speaker A: I looked up a little bit about it. I also don't remember enough about how it ends, but I looked up a little bit so we can discuss it when we get to that question. But yes, that is one of those things that I don't think people realize that Black Sails is like one of the gayest shows.
• 9:15
  Speaker B: Super gay.
• 9:15
  Speaker A: Like so gay it's been on TV.
• 9:17
  Speaker B: In a while and like gay for everyone.
• 9:19
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Which I thought was. It's. You wouldn't expect that, I think. Because I think that also might be one of the reasons it never got as popular as it was is that People just saw Produced by Michael Bay.
• 9:30
  Speaker B: Yeah. And you gotta look past produced by.
• 9:33
  Speaker A: Michael Bay because it's not nothing before Michael Bay.
• 9:37
  Speaker B: Nothing like anything that's ever been produced.
• 9:39
  Speaker A: By Michael B. Yeah, yeah. Not at all. Next up from Cottonwood, Steve says hopefully this gets in. I've been driving all week. Good news. We recorded real late. I'm gonna stand up for the movie. And not because it's necessarily a great film, but because it went down a weird street. I don't think you need to stand up for the movie.
• 9:59
  Speaker B: No, I enjoyed the movie, I think. Yeah.
• 10:01
  Speaker A: I don't think there's a lot of movie haters out there. We enjoyed the movie, just Katie slightly chose the book, but because it went down a weird street, this sort of thing needs to happen more often. In my opinion, the mixture of the CGI animation and the hand drawn animation should honestly have become the new standard rather than the full CGI we saw in lesser films. Yes, I am old, but it's rather sad to me knowing 2D animation is just a niche. I do agree that I think it would be fun.
• 10:26
  Speaker B: I think 2D animation is ripe for a return resurgence. Yeah, yeah.
• 10:32
  Speaker A: Of course. Robert Louis Stevenson is a legend. And how can I choose the movie? Well, I love sci fi. The ending was a little bit rushed, that being only silly part for me, but the rest of the film was fine. Had plenty of stakes for this film and it. It had plenty of stakes for this film. And Atlantis, it's companion film I always recommend. Beside, it had pretty high body counts for a Disney movie. The fact Jim was trying to save his family business also brought a little nobility to him. Anyway, great choice. Loved it. Looking forward to this month because I love the Outsiders and Cloud Atlas. Well, there you go. Spoiler Spoilers for our non patrons about what is after the Outsiders. Next comment is from Nathan who says I've been on vacation so I still haven't gotten to listen to the whole pod, but wanted to say that this one clearly goes to the movie for me. I was surprised how profoundly boring I found the book. I thought this was going to be about exciting pirate swashbuckling and instead it feels like most of the interesting parts of the story took place off page while we follow Jim incompetently and uninterestingly stumbling his way back to the ship that wasn't going anywhere anyway. Then we have the world's least interesting treasure hunt for treasure that is clearly already dug up.
• 11:37
  Speaker B: That's the dramatic irony.
• 11:40
  Speaker A: None of the characters are particularly interesting. Even long John Silver, who in the movie is a character full of depth and emotion. In the book he is just a greedy pirate with slightly more intelligence than the truly stupid and superstitious folks around him. He doesn't grow at all. As to the book, where even Dr. Doppler and the Captain feel like dynamic people, even if I found their romance to be entirely uninteresting, at least they had a story. Ljs Is that. What's his name? Oh, Long John Silver and Jim's father's son. Dynamic was moving and almost made me cry during the musical number. Random thoughts. I felt like Jim's mom looked like Belle from Beauty and the Beast. She also looked like the same age as grown up Jim, which was weird. Yeah. She might be very young. We don't know.
• 12:21
  Speaker B: We don't know.
• 12:21
  Speaker A: We honestly don't know. Interesting. I don't want to say she didn't look like Belle. She had similarities. But she looks exactly like Jane. Like, if you go look at pictures Jane, I feel like it's like identical. Long John Silver didn't have a peg leg in the book, as far as I could tell. That is the number one characteristic I would have attributed to him. So it's weird that it must be a later edition.
• 12:42
  Speaker B: It's a little confusing in the book because they talk about him. They talk about him having a crutch that he carries. But also sometimes I thought it did seem like he had like. What is the word I'm looking for? What is the. What is the word for when you get a mobility like. Like when. When you get like your arm replaced?
• 13:06
  Speaker A: A prosthetic?
• 13:07
  Speaker B: Yes, a prosthetic. A peg leg is a type of prosthetic.
• 13:12
  Speaker A: That's exactly what it is. Sorry, I guess I'm confused. At what. What are you saying?
• 13:16
  Speaker B: I was just trying to come up with the word prosthetic.
• 13:18
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 13:19
  Speaker B: That's all.
• 13:21
  Speaker A: It sounds like he doesn't have a peg leg. This. I will say this is the AI summary, but. Or it's not. It's an excerpt from some other. I don't know. It says Silver Ops for a crutch. Nicknamed his timber leg. Not an artificial leg. But he does have a stump. So. So this is implying that he is missing the leg in the book.
• 13:44
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 13:44
  Speaker A: But that he uses a crutch and not a peg leg.
• 13:47
  Speaker B: Fair enough.
• 13:48
  Speaker A: Which is different.
• 13:49
  Speaker B: Right?
• 13:51
  Speaker A: Because I agree that I always assumed he had a peg leg in.
• 13:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, and I'm guessing that must be another thing. Like we discussed his leg being cut off close to the hip in the book where it's usually a picture just cut off at the knee.
• 14:04
  Speaker A: This is the AI overview. No, Long John Silver did not have a peg leg in the book. He was described as having lost his leg at the hip and used a crutch to get around. The image of the peg legged pirate became popularized in later adaptations of the story and is now pervasive. I believe in Black Sails. He does not have a peg leg or no, he does get one of it. I can't remember. He uses a crutch for a while in black sales and then I think he might get a peg leg. I can't remember.
• 14:32
  Speaker B: I don't remember for sure. But I remember when he loses his leg.
• 14:37
  Speaker A: It's different apparently than what is described in the book, which we'll get to that here when we talk more about black sails momentarily. I have a question for the segment that, for the segment is that in the TV show, the book has several references to LJS's Long John Silver's black wife. And Jim imposes his own racism by assuming that this is why Long John Silver wants to leave town. On the trip. Long John Silver expresses no shut such thoughts himself. So I ask was Black Sails a progressive tale where Long John Silver chooses to love outside his race and what society says? Yes.
• 15:10
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 15:11
  Speaker A: He is with a black woman in black sails. She doesn't show up till like the third or fourth season. Maddie. Maddie. I can't remember. I think it's Mahdi is how it's pronounced. Maybe might be Maddie, but she's part of. There's like a former slave colony that is like.
• 15:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, there's a secret colony of like.
• 15:29
  Speaker A: Former slaves, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
• 15:30
  Speaker B: Like people who escaped slavery and they're.
• 15:32
  Speaker A: Like kind of like their own little pirate colony. And she like runs it, I think. And I believe she might even be the daughter of one of the pirates from that they was earlier in the show. The guy who had the scarring on his face.
• 15:45
  Speaker B: Maybe.
• 15:45
  Speaker A: It's been so long since we watched it, but I'm pretty sure he might have been like her father or something.
• 15:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think. Well, I think if I remember right, I think she's like the heir apparent to like like one of her parents runs it.
• 15:58
  Speaker A: I thought the thing was something like we find out that that one black pirate who was on the crew was like the king of this island basically.
• 16:05
  Speaker B: Yes, you're right. You are right.
• 16:06
  Speaker A: That's his daughter.
• 16:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker A: And we're like, we didn't know any early seasons as to your question. So I Ask was Black Sails a progressive tale? Yes, Black. As we mentioned earlier, Black Sails is. I'm sure there's some problematic stuff in it if you go back and watch it again. It's been a while, but it is an incredibly progressive tale that is full of gay romances and all kinds of stuff. And the whole plot and theme of the show is authority.
• 16:34
  Speaker B: Like, basically.
• 16:35
  Speaker A: And, like, bring capitalism. And essentially, like, it's. Yeah, it's a very progressive show. It's one of the reasons it's so good. All right, next up from Ben, we have Ben's comment, who's. I'm sorry, I was just. I was, like, confused by this first thing here. Hi, longtime listener, firsttime commenter. Thank you, Ben. Welcome. Just wanted to say, love your guys content. It's meant a lot to me and I couldn't get through work without you guys. That's great. I love when we get comments like this. Yeah, look, I. We don't do this for the praise, but especially as a smaller podcast where we don't have a ton of listeners, it is nice to know, like, when you get a comment from people, obviously all of our recurring fans who comment every week, it's fantastic. We love that interaction. But it is nice to hear because I always wonder, like, how many people actually listen and enjoy our show. And it's always nice when somebody new shows up and it's like, hey, love your show. Listen to it all the time. Anyways, I've also watched all of Black Sails and I really liked parts of it. Sorry, not a super fan like you guys. I will say there every time I pitch it to people, I do say, hey, the first season, you got to like. It gets. It takes a little bit to get going, but it's worth it, really. You got to get. You have to convince people to watch through the big twist in season two. I think it's season two where the big reveal of Flint's backstory happens. That was the moment where I was like, this is the best show I've ever seen because I just was not expecting it. And it was fascinating and amazing anyways, but I do like to hear your thoughts on it. I remember you guys doing an episode on it a while back, and I'd love to see you do more TV reviews. We did, didn't we? I guess.
• 18:12
  Speaker B: I don't.
• 18:12
  Speaker A: God, it's one of our earliest bonus episodes.
• 18:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, we probably talked about it and.
• 18:17
  Speaker A: Finished watching it the first time. Maybe I'd have to go back and see if I can find it, but I Do think we did a very, very early bonus episode on Black Sails and I'd love to see you do more TV reviews. Was wondering, having read the book, does the ending of Black Sails make sense with what happens the book? Because in the end John Silver decides to leave the treasure on the island and Billy Bones is left there. Not sure how that leads to Billy Bones having a treasure map in England and John Silver. John Silver hunting him to find it. Shouldn't Silver already know where the treasure is? How did Billy Bones get the map? And if he found the treasure, why didn't he take it? Of course it's an interesting adaptation, so you can kind of do whatever you want. But it's interesting if they ever do a Treasure island sequel, how that would all line up. So it's been a long time since we watched it. And part of the thing and I think the most important thing to remember about Black Sails is that. And it's kind of the whole theme in the fourth season that Flint and Long John Silver talk about a lot is that Treasure island is fiction based on the real life events of Black Sails. In the universe of Black Sails. The way that works is essentially what. When we read Treasure island, we are reading a fictionalized.
• 19:35
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:35
  Speaker A: Account.
• 19:36
  Speaker B: We're reading like a tall tale of.
• 19:38
  Speaker A: The events after the events of Black Sails. And they talk a lot in that. About in. In Black Sails about how the stories will change and morph and like that's a whole big recurring thing, especially in the fourth season from my memory, about how the stories that they will tell won't be true. But that doesn't matter. Like the stories about them won't be accurate or true. But that doesn't matter because what matters is what like persists or something. I don't know. I have to go find. There's a big speech. I think it's Long John Silver that gives it. Cause he's like the storyteller. And I'm pretty sure I don't have to go back and find it. But there's a big quote about or big speech about the stories and like how it won't. Like how things change and so they. You don't really need everything to match up perfectly. I read somewhere on Reddit or something somebody did like an exercise of like how. How do you get the. Where Black Sails ends to work with Treasure island and you can do it. I don't know how you would make it match up. Somebody did. If you want. If you want to like go to like Black Sails, Treasure Island, Reddit you can probably find this post where somebody like talked about how it all makes sense. Ultimately you don't. It doesn't match up. But the point of that. Or that's fine because again, Black Sails is supposed to be. Sorry, Treasure island is supposed to be inspired by the events of Black Sails. Not like a direct sequel necessarily.
• 21:09
  Speaker B: Prequel.
• 21:10
  Speaker A: No, no, no, no.
• 21:12
  Speaker B: Okay, yeah.
• 21:12
  Speaker A: Treasure island is supposed to be inspired by the events of Black Sails. It is not a direct sequel to the event of Black. And Black Sails is not a direct prequel to the events of Treasure Island. It is the. The real life events in the universe of the show. You're supposed to watch the show as if it is catal cataloging the real life events that inspired the story of Treasure Island.
• 21:36
  Speaker B: That makes sense, basically.
• 21:37
  Speaker A: And so if all the details don't match up, that's fine because it's. Yeah. Anyways. Alright. Last Patreon comment comes from Dylan Eldred who says had a bunch of fun with this movie. Though I'd never read the book when I was a kid. I always preferred Atlantis, the Lost Empire in the early 2000s edgy animated Disney movie battle. But this was a fun time watching. As expected, the animation is great, the acting is excellent, and even if. Even if the movie is overall just okay. I do love the cast though. In particular Michael Wincott as the pirate Shroop. That man's voice is just pure gravelly goodness. You're not wrong. Your conversation about Solar Sails made me think of Attack of the Clones since Dooku's ship in that is called the Solar Sailor and has them also a movie from 2002. Fun coincidence that you're not the only person that mentioned that by the way, but I hadn't thought about that either. That is fun and interesting. I wonder if there was a thing where like when those movies were being like written or produced where like Solar Sails as a concept like was like.
• 22:44
  Speaker B: Kind of fun news scene, like the.
• 22:45
  Speaker A: Fun new science, you know, like it was like a popular like mechanics article or something about the idea of solar sails or something. I don't know. I've not seen Black Sails though I've heard it's great. Sounds like I'll have to check it out at some point. You should. And again, persevere. Get to at least like halfway through season two and then you'll be hooked. I can't remember where that is. What episode that I think it's like halfway through season two. On Facebook. We had five votes for the movie and two for the book. First up from Jasmine. I think it's just because the movie got to me first. It's so special to me. I also need a morph. Morph is very cute.
• 23:22
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 23:24
  Speaker A: Ian says Treasure island alongside Dracula and Jungle Book is one of those dragons I chase. The book is on my way too long to read list. Your read to read list is way too long. Not. I was like, Treasure island is not way too long to read. Yeah, the book is on your to read list, which is way too long. Gotcha. Okay. I was interested because it would be accurate for Dracula that it's way too long to read or it like there's other things you could put on there. I was introduced to this when I was ill one school day and stayed home and Mum rented out the original Disney version with Robert Newton as Silver and I was hooked. The swashbuckling, the pirates, the treasure. It resonated with me in a big way. And I did enjoy the Long John Silver restaurant and one of the malls in Miami. Oh, goodness. Hush Puppies are pretty good. I absolutely love the Muppet version and will always have Tim Curry as Silver be the definitive version for me. There's a less than terrific version with Orson Welles in the role with various actors being dubbed, including Orson, I believe, which was a bit distracting for my liking. That sounds fascinating. Orson Welles. I am excited. I didn't. I guess I should have assumed Tim McCurry played Long John Silver in the live action version. But I didn't know who he played in it. I just knew he was in it. That excites me now to see because we are watching that version for the bonus episode. Sky did a miniseries. I assume that sky, the BBC or the British television channel. Sky did a miniseries with Eddie Izzard as Silver.
• 24:49
  Speaker B: That would be fun.
• 24:50
  Speaker A: That would be interesting. This one is slightly darker but closer to the book from what it sounds like. I do recommend checking that out. I remember when Treasure Planet came out, but I think at the time I wasn't keen on the idea of setting it in space. But I got around to watching it when we were quarantined on the ship when the plague first started to break out. Such fun. And I'm glad I did. It have taken the better part of 20 years, but I've come around to liking and appreciating this film for what it tried to do. Also, 2002 seems to be the year of solar sales, not only in this movie, but in episode two with Dooku's ship at the end. There you go. Sadly, this is not caught on in the maritime industry. And. Well, I don't think, to be fair, I don't think it would work in the maritime industry. And I know you're being silly, but. And the only two biggest pieces of tech we have is the Azipods, which gives ship absolute control to be omnidirectional. I looked this up. This is. It's basically just the. The screws, you know, the. What is the word? Propellers. Propellers are now on things that rotate 360 degrees.
• 25:47
  Speaker B: So you can like turn your ship anyway.
• 25:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, you can maneuver much more. That's the omnidirectional thing. And superheating the bow to create bubbles at the front, effectively meaning you glide on a cushion of air. So I looked this up, maybe that you might be giving away state secrecy and I don't know, I could not find any information that this is actively being used or. I read that it was like a conceptual technology for a ship that if you superheat the bow, it basically boils the water and creates an air like bubble. Similar, something akin to an air pocket in the front that would allow you, via the Leidenfrost effect and other things that it would allow you to move through the water a lot quicker, easier, whatever, with less resistance. I did not see anything about that being something that exists and is in use. It was like a. I literally couldn't have. Unless I did. Maybe I just don't know what the technology is called. But I googled, I found like a little like AI summary thing about it, but there's no like Wikipedia article or anything like that. And no matter what I googled, I couldn't find like, oh, this is clearly that thing. So. So Ian, let me know one, if it exists or two, if you're giving away state secrets and you can't say that because be interested to find out. When the missus and I were watching this again, we posited how much more feels there would be in the beginning if instead Mrs. Hawking's reading Jim to bed. It was his dad and it's the night he leaves. I get why for sake of a family animated movie, they'd merge the squire and doctor into one character. Oh, sorry, we're moving on. I think it could work. I didn't really. I thought that was gonna be connected. Yeah, I think that could work. It definitely. I think it could have been a very effective. If you didn't know and I assume this is what you're talking about, where the scene plays out and it feels normal and you don't see him leave at the beginning, but then later on that's the night he left out.
• 27:38
  Speaker B: That's the night he.
• 27:39
  Speaker A: I assume that's what you mean. And I agree that could have been interesting. But I like having his mom in that. I think it works too. I get why for the sake of a family animated movie they'd merge the Squire and Doctor into one character in Israel Hands and George Mary into one as well. You need the core characters of Jim Silver and Captain. The others you trim and or merge together. I'm going to say it. It's not in the book. I'm going to say it's not in the book. I remember hearing somewhere that Silver isn't called Long because he's tall, but well, human flesh is known as long pork and it is theorized that John might have partaken. I could make sense.
• 28:12
  Speaker B: I don't remember picking that up as I was reading, but that may be.
• 28:17
  Speaker A: Like an outside like just speculation based on maybe not mentioned in the book. But I do like in Black Sails that John is a terrible cook. Nice twist to his mythos. It is. Yes. He is a terrible cook in that. And he does pretend to be a cook. That's like the first thing he does in the show. I haven't read yet read the book and would seem disingenuous otherwise. Oh sorry. I'm going to give it to the movie because I haven't read the book and would it would seem disingenuous otherwise. It's a gorgeous looking film and even with the differences from other versions, I like Cyborg John. And then in this version he initially doesn't want Jim around. Previous versions had him cozying up to Jim as soon as he can to get information about the map. So it's a unique dynamic from the get go in Treasure Planet that arguably allows Silver to have more character growth than previous versions. Keep up the good work. Stay Gold Ponyboy. That's a reference to Outsiders. Yeah, I actually didn't know where that was from forever. I heard the phrase Stay gold Ponyboy, but I had no idea it was from the Outsiders until this week when it's been referenced several times by listeners, including your mom. Lassa says hi again. Choosing between this film and this book is really difficult because they are such different beasts. That said, I really like this adaptation, not just visually, but also in the way it changes more stuff and changes some stuff and makes the relationship between Jim and Silver surprisingly moving. The amazing score by James Newton Howard helps to sell the emotions as well. It's clear it was a Dream project for the directors. And it's a shame it bombed so badly. I actually, actually recommend the video of the YouTuber breadsword named Treasure Planet. Disney's Biggest Mistake, which is not only a love letter to the movie and the genre in general, but dives deep into the technology used in the film, which explains why it was so expensive. He also presents some theories about how Disney basically wanted this movie to fail and makes a pretty valid case. It's worth your time. Check it out. I will. That sounds fascinating. Some fun facts on the DVD extras. You can look at concept designs for the characters, and there are a few ideas for the character of Blind Pugh, which are pretty fun. That also shows he was at least in an earlier draft of the script, but clearly not for long, given the fact that there are only about two drawings of him. Is that a character from the pirates?
• 30:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, one of the early pirates that comes to see Billy Bones. He did not make it into the film.
• 30:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. There is another Disney adaptation of the material, a live action film from 1950. That's the one Steve Ian. Somebody mentioned.
• 30:38
  Speaker B: Somebody else mentioned it. Yeah.
• 30:39
  Speaker A: Watching. Starring Bobby Driscoll as Jim and Robert Newton as Long John Silver. In that one, they actually make it explicitly clear that Silver has a hand in Mr. Arrow's death by serving him plum pudding with lo of alcohol during a storm, which then makes him go overboard. Interesting.
• 30:54
  Speaker B: Grindy.
• 30:55
  Speaker A: Grindelwald.
• 30:56
  Speaker B: Grindelwald. Get out of there.
• 30:56
  Speaker A: Get out of there. Get out of there.
• 31:00
  Speaker B: Come on, dude.
• 31:01
  Speaker A: Speaking of Silver, just like the book is the first quintessential pirate story which influenced everything, coming after Robert Newton's performance was also the first stereotypical pirate performance, which every actor borrowed from the piratey accent. And the use of the word ARR came from Newton from this very movie, which I think is really fun. I had not heard that. I would have thought it would have been earlier than that. Not super earlier than that. A little earlier than that.
• 31:23
  Speaker B: I would have thought maybe theater.
• 31:25
  Speaker A: Oh, that's true.
• 31:27
  Speaker B: Like theater, huh?
• 31:28
  Speaker A: Interesting. Finally, thank you so very much for this fun episode. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on Muppet Treasure Island. Greetings from Germany. Well, thank you, Lasse. You've said how to pronounce her name before.
• 31:40
  Speaker B: I think it's Lassa.
• 31:41
  Speaker A: Lassa. I think that's it. Anyways, thank you. And yeah, look out for Muppet Treasure Island. As we mentioned before, we're gonna actually release that on the main feed for everybody since it was such a tight race between the two. Next up, from Paige. I Say the movie, because it was one of the ones that my brother and I would watch together a lot. Eta. We wouldn't bond a lot. So when. What does ETA mean in this context?
• 32:05
  Speaker B: Edit to add.
• 32:06
  Speaker A: I think Edit to add. I've never seen that used that way. To me, that's estimated time of arrival. I was like, what is your estimated time of arrival? Okay, eta. We wouldn't bond a lot. So when we found something we both liked, it kind of became our thing. The movie holds more of a place in my heart than the book does. This came out when some of my favorite movies did this. Atlantis, Anastasia and Titan A were on repeat for weeks. Well, we have an episode on Anastasia.
• 32:30
  Speaker B: We did. We did. We covered that as a bonus episode.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's a bonus episode. So you have to go check that out on Patreon. I love Titan ae.
• 32:38
  Speaker B: I've never seen Titan ae.
• 32:39
  Speaker A: We have to do that as a bonus episode one day. I'm 99% sure it's not based on a book. And yeah, Atlantis is full fun. And then finally, from Melissa. I love the movie so much. The characterizations, music and artistic choices make it truly a gem. To expand on this a bit. I did like how the characterization of Jim visually shifted from him wearing black and having a world weary, tired look with bags under his eyes and just this heaviness in the animation to it gradually getting lighter and lighter until the end of the film when he is wearing white and the lines on his face have disappeared like he has regained his enthusiasm for life since he has a purpose and isn't just free falling like an illustrated at the beginning. I didn't notice that, but that's fascinating.
• 33:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, that is good.
• 33:20
  Speaker A: I remember reading that a lot of the animation of his skyboarding, forget the actual name, was inspired by professional skateboarding and perhaps even surfing. And it just added that extra element to it. Oh, yeah, I could see that. Also, snowboarding, I feel like, feels like a pretty direct reference about parts of it, but definitely skateboarding, 100%. I also wondered if Dilbert was meant to be a foil to John Silver with Jim being the median element. That could go either way, underlining his confusion and feeling of being unfulfilled in his life. Huh. Yeah. That's interesting.
• 33:51
  Speaker B: I think you could definitely read it that way. I don't know if I would say that that was something that was done purposefully. Yeah. I don't know having watched the movie, but I think you could definitely read it like that.
• 34:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. All right. Over on Instagram we had two votes for the movie, two for the book, and one listener who couldn't decide. First up, Rustic Realism says for me, I grew up having read the children's novel and Treasure Planet movie countless times. I love both dearly. I think my love of sci fi is the reason why I choose Treasure Planet. I can't stand to hate a good old sci fi tale. I must have read the book so many times as a child to have remembered such detailed aspects and plot points of the book. I was able to pinpoint and remember every book detail mentioned, which did surprise. As I haven't read the book since I was a child. It should be mentioned that in the book there is a doctor who is staying at the end who warns Billy Bones. I think that if he continues to drink the way he does, he will die. At least in. At least in. At least in the version I read. So to me, I felt that his sudden death was a result of his unhealthy living choices.
• 34:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, that is definitely a factor.
• 34:51
  Speaker A: Big factor.
• 34:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. At one point the doctor does tell him, like, hey, man, if you keep drinking the way that you do, you're gonna keel over. But I think it's also meant to be like. Like the shock that he gets and like the fear. Also with his already weak constitution from all the rum.
• 35:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. I also thought Jim's mom suddenly telling Jim, I'm going to faint now, and doing so suddenly was funny. I remember her just handing Jim her things and collapsing. Another detail I thought was interesting was the appearance of the black hole in the film, which reflects the larger scientific community's interpretation of black holes at the time. Loved this episode a lot. Well, that's amazing. Thank you. You. We'll have more in that black hole because I got some science wrong later. Threads on threads, we had zero votes for the movie and one for the book. Gumbyok234 said the book is better for all the reasons mentioned in the episode, but also because without it we wouldn't get Muppet Treasure island re the film. Loud and yelling. Martin Short is the best. Martin Short. I'd like Martin Short and a lot. One Martin Short. I like Martin Short generally, but it depends a lot on I find him really grating and annoying sometimes and enjoyable in other things. So over on Goodreads, we had one vote for the movie and zero for the book. Mikko, Ever reliable Miko. Over on Goodreads, I happened to read Treasure island earlier this year and I didn't feel like rereading it. Yeah, makes sense. You only Read it a few months ago. I might have forgotten stuff from the novel, but it didn't impress me that much. Though it was fun to see the origin of many pirate tropes, the movie is a surprisingly accurate adaptation considering it's an animated sci fi tale. It makes many good changes, like giving Jim and Silver a good arc together. I don't think we needed the flashbacks to Jim running after his father. The themes were plenty clear enough, even for kids. Without that, I shall go with my enjoyment rather than literary significance this time and give my vote to Treasure Planet. I just like sci fi.
• 36:44
  Speaker B: Fair enough.
• 36:46
  Speaker A: And here's my correction. P.S. and astrophysics correction. Thank you, Mikko. I was hoping somebody would in fact, check me on that one. It wouldn't take a million years for a black hole to form after a supernova. After a massive enough star starts producing iron in its core, it's dead in a day. As it reaches the critical limit, the core can collapse from a diameter of 5,000 km into less than 30 km in a tenth of a second before rebounding and scattering the outer layers. The black hole formed due to the collapse will then consume the majority of the star's bulk in a day or so. So the real critique of the scene isn't the speed the black hole formed, but them being still alive to see it. You have a better chance to surviving hugging a pile of million hydrogen bombs going off than hanging out even on the edges of a solar system going nova. So I will say that I. I already knew that obviously they wouldn't survive being that close to that happening. I was granting that for the movie's sake. I just. I. I'll take. I'll. I'll take the correction. I just know that generally most solar things take way longer than we like think or depict them to.
• 37:49
  Speaker B: I feel like Mikko knows everything I think Miko does. Mikko might be the smartest person I have a parasocial relationship with.
• 37:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, Miko.
• 37:56
  Speaker B: No offense to anybody else.
• 37:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. The rest of our listeners genius in other ways, but Mikko seems to be the science genius on this show, which is good. I like having somebody that can fact check that kind of stuff because I'm a science nerd and I don't like getting things wrong. I do just kind of speak off the cuff with that kind of stuff. I didn't do the research on it, but anyway, so thank you. And finally the results of the poll. The movie wins with 12 votes to the book seven, plus two listeners who couldn't decide. So there you go. Thank you all very much for all of that feedback. We love getting comments. So much fun hearing from you. It's fantastic. Katie. No learning things segment this week, but we are going to preview the Outsiders by SE Hint.
• 38:44
  Speaker B: I bet they're looking for us.
• 38:46
  Speaker A: This is our territory. I wish that you could concentrate on something else just once in a while.
• 38:54
  Speaker B: What's your name, Pony boy?
• 38:56
  Speaker A: Curtis. These are greasers who tried to pick.
• 39:01
  Speaker B: Up on our women. The outside outsiders is a 1967 coming of age novel by American author S.E. hinton. Hinton started writing the book in 1965 when she was only 15 years old.
• 39:22
  Speaker A: I saw this when I was doing movie research and it blew my mind.
• 39:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, this was, I think, a big part of the draw for me when I read it.
• 39:29
  Speaker A: This person wrote this book at my.
• 39:31
  Speaker B: Age because I was 13 when I read it. So I was like, like it can be done.
• 39:35
  Speaker A: It could be me.
• 39:36
  Speaker B: It could be me. But the book was inspired by two rival gangs at her school, the Greasers and the Socias. And her desire to empathize with the Greasers by writing from their point of view.
• 39:50
  Speaker A: I now know it's about gangs.
• 39:52
  Speaker B: You now know that.
• 39:53
  Speaker A: Vampires or whatever.
• 39:56
  Speaker B: No, vampires, Alas.
• 39:57
  Speaker A: I think I might have been the. The re. I. I didn't actually think it was about vampires, but I think I was confusing it was with the Lost Boys.
• 40:04
  Speaker B: I was wondering if maybe you were.
• 40:06
  Speaker A: I think in my head they were kind of similar. Yeah. Cuz they came out around the same time.
• 40:09
  Speaker B: The movies both came out around the 80s. Yeah.
• 40:12
  Speaker A: And they have like young stars.
• 40:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, young stars. Corrupt via other stuff. And like greasy, sad boys.
• 40:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's kind of. Yeah, I think that's why my brain mixes them up. I've never seen either. So.
• 40:27
  Speaker B: At her publisher's suggestion, Hinted decided to use her initials for her pen name rather than her given name, which is Susan Eloise, so that male reviewers wouldn't dismiss her work. Since its publication, the Outsiders has sold more than 14 million copies. In 2017, Viking Press stated the book sells over 500,000 copies per year.
• 40:51
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 40:52
  Speaker B: The novel has also found a seemingly permanent home in middle and high school English class curricula.
• 40:58
  Speaker A: I wonder if that's part of the reason.
• 40:59
  Speaker B: Yes, that is part of the reason.
• 41:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 41:03
  Speaker B: Particularly in the United States. I know we've had a couple of listeners mention that they read it in school. I'm not sure. I know Shelby implied that she had read it in school.
• 41:13
  Speaker A: Perhaps, but was it. Was it part of your curriculum though? Or did you just read it right. In school because she's in Canada.
• 41:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know it's pretty common here in the US to read that either in middle school or high school. I don't know how common it is outside of the us.
• 41:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's an interesting. I would be fascinated to know, especially in other English speaking countries, obviously even non English speaking countries. But you know, Canada, maybe even less Canada. But if we have like any UK listeners or, or countries where they teach English a lot like, like a lot of some of the, like Sweden in those countries, they learn English pretty young. A lot of them do. I'd be interested to know what, like the novels you read. Like the classic novels that everybody reads in like high school.
• 42:00
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 42:01
  Speaker A: To see how many of them are like, you know, similar to us or different or. Anyways, I would be fascinated to know that. So Reply to this episode with some.
• 42:08
  Speaker B: Of the Please report back.
• 42:09
  Speaker A: I would love to hear it.
• 42:11
  Speaker B: In 2019, the BBC included the Outsiders on its list of 100 most influential novels. But that kind of popularity doesn't come without controversy. Outsiders has ranked number 38 on the American Library Association's top 100 most frequently challenged books between 1990 and 1999, and it has been banned from some schools and libraries because of poorly portrayal of gang violence, underage smoking and drinking, strong language, slash slang, and family dysfunction. So the kids are fans, the parents. Not always. The Outsiders is sometimes credited with starting young adult literature. I don't know if I agree with that necessarily. There are definitely examples of why I lit that predate the novel. Not by a lot, but there are some. But its immediate popularity I think definitely helped to really carve out that publishing niche and make it into the thing that it is today.
• 43:15
  Speaker A: That's interesting, because if you would have asked me, well, to be fair, I didn't even know what it was about. But I would not have guessed that the Outsiders was YA lit. I would have thought it was more like classic adult literature that is just also accessible to things. But having found out that it was written by a 15 year old, I don't know if a 15 year old can write anything other than Yaelin. If I'm being honestly not if most 15 year olds would have the. You just don't have the wisdom, the age, the experience to write know. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:51
  Speaker B: Following the Outsiders, Hinton continued to write for the YA audience. None of her subsequent novels achieved the same level of fame, although Rumble Fish was also adapted by the same director as the Outsiders. I'm not spoiling that one for you. Wow More recently she's written some children's books and some adult novels and I think had some nightmare tweets a couple years ago. So.
• 44:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, like, like J.K. rowling style or like, or like racism.
• 44:24
  Speaker B: I. Homophobic, I think. Yeah, yeah. Closer. Close to J.K. rowling. Although I don't, I don't think she's taken it like nearly to the level that Rowling has. But yeah, I think she's. If I'm remembering right, I think she has had some not great takes in more recent years. But aside from the 1983 film that we will be watching for this episode, the Outsiders was also adapted as a stage musical in 2023, which sounds fascinating. It also received a short lived television series that picked up where the film left off with an entirely different cast. But it only lasted for one season.
• 45:09
  Speaker A: I think I read about that. Yeah.
• 45:11
  Speaker B: And if you are a huge fan of I think the movie in particular, good news, the house that it was filmed in in Tulsa is now a museum. The Outsider's House museum, which features Outsiders memorabilia, according to Wikipedia.
• 45:29
  Speaker A: Saw that too. All right, time now to learn a little bit about the Outsiders, the movie. You be careful. Ain't gonna hurt me no more.
• 45:46
  Speaker B: Stay gold, pony boy.
• 45:53
  Speaker A: The outsiders is a 1983 film directed by Francis Ford Coppola. I had no idea, no idea. I thought it was gonna be some random person who directed like five movies that nobody had ever heard of other than this movie. No. Fucking Francis Ford Coppola, Director of the Godfather movies, Apocalypse Now, Dracula, Megalopolis, bunch of other stuff, including apparently Rumblefish. Yeah, never heard of that. And it was written by both Francis Ford Coppola, but mainly Kathleen Rowell, she's the main credited writer. I read other places that Coppola, he writes most of his movies, so I'm sure he was involved to some level. And Kathleen Rowell. Rowell wrote the Joy of Sex, Hear no Evil and Malibu Shores, among other things. Things this is by far her most popular. The film stars C. Thomas Howell, Matt Dillon, Ralph Macchio, Patrick Swayze, Rob Lowe, Diane Lane, Emilio Estevez, Tom Cruise and Leif Garrett. Insane cast people, most of them before anybody knew who they were. The film has a 71% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 45 on Metacritic and a 7 out of 10 on IMDb. It made 25% million against a budget of $10 million. So this is fascinating. You'll love this. This was all kicked off. It was like perfect for our show. This whole movie was kicked off when Coppola received a letter from A librarian from California, Joe Ellen Masakian, Librarians getting shit done. Writing on behalf of her seventh and eighth graders. The letter said, quote, we are all so impressed with the book the Outsiders by S.E. hinton written, that a petition has been circulated asking that it be made into a movie. We have chosen you to send it to, end quote. I love that it was chosen. That's great. With it was 15 pages of children's signatures. Coppola was so moved by the leather letter that he read the book and then decided to make the movie.
• 47:51
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 47:52
  Speaker A: That's amazing.
• 47:53
  Speaker B: That's a perfect backstory for an adaptation.
• 47:56
  Speaker A: It's so good. This movie features again, I assume that's mostly true as source from Wikipedia, so that sounds a little hypocrisy, but hopefully it's true. This movie features some of the first and or breakout roles for a ton of the actors that I mentioned above. Rob Lowe has said, and that's not really. This is a broad fact. It's a lot of these people's first movie. Then some very fun facts. Rob Lowe has said that Tom Cruise, quote, went ballistic over sharing a room with him during auditions and then accidentally hit Tom. And then Rob Lowe accidentally hit Tom in the face during rehearsals, which started a fight. The movie was shot on location in Tulsa, Oklahoma, as you mentioned earlier, from March 29 to May 15 of 1982. So two month, month and a half of filming is pretty standard. The film was originally 133 minutes long, but the studio was not thrilled about that runtime, so Coppola cut that down to 91 minutes for release. He would then later come back and release a quote. It's called the Outsiders, the complete novel, like recut of the film that has 22 additional minutes of the movie added back into it that ends up making it more faithful to the book than the theatrical cut. There's a scene in the movie where Dally argues with a nurse in the hospital about the whereabouts of his hospital gown. That nurse is played by Essie Hinton. That's the author cameo. She was also very involved just generally with the filming. I kept reading this multiple places that she became like a. A surrogate mother to a lot of the young actors in the movie. She was on set all the time and just kind of helped corral all of the kids or, you know, young, young boys in the movie.
• 49:39
  Speaker B: Sir Grundy, get out of there.
• 49:44
  Speaker A: Supposedly during filming. And this sounds true based on what I know of Coppola. During filming, the actors playing the socks were given leather Bound scripts socious and were put up in socks. Oh, the sochis. That's right. I forgot. It's pronounced weird.
• 49:58
  Speaker B: Y.
• 49:59
  Speaker A: That's not pronounced how it's spelled.
• 50:00
  Speaker B: No.
• 50:01
  Speaker A: The socias were given leather bound scripts and were put up in luxury accommodations. In contrast, the greasers were given battered paperback scripts and they had to stay on the ground floor of the hotel because Coppola wanted to create tension between the two groups. That's a pretty standard director thing. You hear about that in other movies where they will do that with the actors and stuff to kind of supposedly help them get in character. But you know, it's whatever. Getting to some reviews, I thought these were interesting. Kevin Maurer for the Times UK said, quote, and I had to source all these from Rotten Tomatoes because there were like none on wikipedia. For the UK's the Times, Kevin Ma wrote, quote, it's beautifully shot, written and placed, but the cast really is the thing, end quote. So he was a big fan of the film generally. Danny Leigh for the Financial Time Lee, probably Danny Lee for the Financial Times said, quote, the movie is sincerely anguished, sensitive to class. It can also wobble alarmingly, gave it three out of five stars. I also believe that most of these are. I don't know how many of these are contemporary reviews. They all were from the 2000s on rotten tomatoes, but that may. Some of them may have been written contemporaneously and then like when a DVD release or something came out, been uploaded again or something. Or they may have been written in 202007 or something. So some of these may be more modern reviews, I'm not sure. For the Guardian, Peter Bradshaw gave it a five out of five saying, quote, it is a movie with the heartfelt old fashioned urgency of a Hollywood film. From much further back with the Brat Pack in this film equivalent to the end. Equivalent of the end. Kids who made Angels with Dirty faces in the 30s. That's a famous movie from the 30s. I have not seen it. But for Sight and Sound, Gilbert Adair wrote, quote, one of the most overtly aesthetic art for art's sake films in Hollywood's history. A faunaf pre Raphaelite mural and come on, man, I mean it makes sense. He's writing for Sight and Sound, but Jesus Christ, is it fnaf? I don't even know how to pronounce it.
• 52:10
  Speaker B: I have no idea.
• 52:11
  Speaker A: A faux knopf pre Raphaelite Raphaelite mural in which angels with dirty faces but immaculately pure hearts burn with a hard gym like flame before being snuffed out in their prime. End quote. Good Lord.
• 52:23
  Speaker B: Katniss also.
• 52:24
  Speaker A: I did not know this. Katniss. Ma'. Am.
• 52:27
  Speaker B: Ma'. Am. Katniss.
• 52:29
  Speaker A: I will say, reading the. The one of the most overtly aesthetic art for art sakes film in Hollywood history really surprises me. That's not what I. I've never. Again, I've never seen a frame of this movie. My. My guess would not have been that it is overtly aesthetic and art for art's sake. I would. To me, I would have expected it to be a very, like, grounded worksman, like film or so I don't know. That's interesting to hear.
• 52:54
  Speaker B: I mean, I haven't seen it in a really long time.
• 52:56
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 52:56
  Speaker B: So we'll find out together.
• 52:57
  Speaker A: That. That sentence makes me very excited. I. I'm. It's got me amped. I just hope I agree with it. I also look up what the fuck faux knoff means pretending to be artless or naively. Okay, naively. Pre Raphael mural. Good Christ. And then getting to some negative reviews. Robert Osborne for the Hollywood Reporter wrote, quote, in the Outsiders, the director's class is consistently present, but it may be a case of the wrong man for the job, since overall, the film plays unevenly with a cliche and detached ambiance that robs the plotline of what passion it might have whipped up. Up. End quote. See, that's still like, heady and. And interesting, but I can understand what the. It's. Richard Corliss for Time magazine wrote, quote, because it falls in love with the. Because it falls in with the undulating rhythm of life, of the life of its heroes, for whom a fatal fight and a quiet night have almost equal importance. The picture never manages to reach the peak of satisfying Hollywood melodrama in the quote, quote. Variety called the movie, quote, well acted and crafted, but highly conventional. And finally, Ebert was not a huge fan, gave the film two out of four stars, saying, quote, the characters wind up like pictures, framed and hanged out, hanging on the screen. There's not much life in this movie or spontaneity. It's a stylistic exercise, end quote. Which kind of echoes what some of the stuff earlier about the overtly aesthetic art for art's sake. Like the I. Again, that's fascinating to me. I mean, it makes sense. Knowing Coppola, that it's over aesthetic now makes more sense. But I still just. I'm. I'm so. I can't wait to watch it now. I'm gonna be taking pictures of every frame. But anyways, as always, you can do us a favor by doing what you did following following us on all the social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram, threads, Blue Sky, Goodreads, all those places. Interact. We love to hear what you have to say. Go write us a nice little five star rating and a review on whatever platform you listen to us on. And Support us@patreon.com thisfilmislit where you can get access to bonus content. Although this month you don't have to pay that. You just get to listen to our Muppet Treasure island episode for free. But every other month you gotta pay and then you get that bonus content. Katie where can people watch the Outsider?
• 55:22
  Speaker B: Well, if you're really cool like me, you have owned it on DVD since high school. Or you can check with your local library. I feel pretty confident they will have a copy of this. Or a local video rental store if you still have one.
• 55:35
  Speaker A: Maybe your local high school English teacher.
• 55:38
  Speaker B: Perhaps your local high school English teacher.
• 55:40
  Speaker A: Have a copy so that they can show it in class.
• 55:44
  Speaker B: It's not streaming with a subscription anywhere, but you can rent it for around 3 to 4 bucks from Plex, Amazon, YouTube, Apple TV, Fandango at home and Spectrum.
• 55:57
  Speaker A: There you go. Like I said, I was already interested to watch it because I didn't know what it was and I've heard it talked about. It's one of those movies, I'm just like, I've heard of this, but I literally know nothing about it. And knowing now that it's Coppola and that it's apparently this aesthetic abomination makes me very excited to watch it. So, yeah, very excited already, right? Come back in one week's time, we're talking about the Outsiders. Until that time, guys, gals, non binary pals and everybody else, keep reading books, keep watching movies and keep being awesome. Sam.