Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Clue

Transcript

Clue · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. I know who
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: did it? Who was it? It was Caitlin in the
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: bedroom with the microphone. Yeah, by it do you mean
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: recorded a podcast? Because if so, then yes, it was
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: me who did it. Yes, and that past the Bechdel Test. Well,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Darrante, and this is our feminist
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: movie podcast where we use the Bechdel Test as a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: jumping off point to analyze famous movies. We're we're in
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the quarantine zone, as is everyone at this point. Um,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So you know, I don't know. I don't remember life
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: before this anymore. I don't either. So we had hinted
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: possibly doing this movie during our National Treasure episode, right,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: because we're just trying to stick to the romps. We're
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: trying to stick to the romps. I feel like it's
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: particularly fitting in the Quarantine because it's a movie pretty
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: much exclusively taking place in one location, one house, no
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: one really leaves. Some people come in and then they
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: die their self. Yeah, and that's what you get when
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: it's a metaphor. They weren't wearing masks when they came in,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: and they didn't wash their hands. They did not. They
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: didn't know when you don't see anyone wash a single
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: hand and the house looks not you know, it's all
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: it's inherently dirty. And and there's a doctor present. He
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: should know better. He should be telling people there's literally
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: someone from the World Health Organization there, and and he's
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: not like scrub scrub, big issues, big problems. Obviously that
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: that's just the beginning of the critique we'll be talking
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: about today. And this are like our first who done it?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: So this will be a fun episode. Um, But first
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: we should tell you what the Bechdel test is. Sure, Caitlyn,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: do you remember what it is? Oh? No, it is
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: flipping my mind if memory serves. It is a media
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: metrics sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test. It requires that
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: two female identifying characters have to have names such as
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock, Miss Scarlet, Mrs White, the Cook, the the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: nameless cook. They have to speak to each other and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that conversation cannot be about a man. I want to
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: see if we can figure out the Bechdel Test version
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: of the of crimes. Here, here's a pitch. Okay, please, Yeah,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: if two women with names commit a crime that has
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with a man, it passes the Bechtel
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: test crime edition. Crime edition. Yeah, I'm into that, right.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think that any of the crimes would pass
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the Bechtel Test crime edition in this movie, in this
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: particular movie where it's it's usually connected to a husband
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: or something like like with Miss Scarlett, it was like
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: men were always tangential to what was happening for sure.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: You know, we've got to do better. We've got to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: do better crimes. Although if the crimes are committed against
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: men who are behaving badly, that that's okay to me.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I think men should be stolen from and like, that's true.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: But then most of the women in the movie, everyone
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: in this movie is basically bad, so you're like, Okay,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: everyone's rich, so that's not you know, except for the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: cook who and we don't even get to know what
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: her name is. You know, she's the only woman of
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: color in the movie too. Yeah, and she's killed and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: made fun of fuck John Wanna than Lynn? God damn it?
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, we have a lot to talk about
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: and no guests today, just us today, So the girls, Jamie,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: what is your relationship history with the movie Clue? I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: liked this movie. I didn't see it like when I
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: was growing up or anything like that, but I've seen it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I think like it's like a good comfort movie. I
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: love Who Done It? And thrillers and stuff like that,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: so a comedy Who Done It's right up my alley.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I think I've seen it, like yeah, like three or
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: four times. I rewatched it, most recently after seeing Knives Out,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: which I think that I mean, I was not alone here,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: but I watched or rewatched a ton of Who Done
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: It's after Knives Out came out because I really really
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: liked Knives Out same, I loved it. So yeah, there,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a clue head, I'm a Who Done It? Head?
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: What about you? I also didn't grow up with it,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: but I saw it sometime, I think, in like my
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: late teen years for the first time, and I think
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: it was just that once that I saw it, I
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: remember thinking it was fun. But like I also, I
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: didn't play the game really at all. Ever, growing up,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I think maybe I did play the game, not heavily.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: It's more of an operation kid. Yeah, I was a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: scrabble kid myself smart. That's smart kid culture. Well, it's
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: why I went on to later get a master's degree
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: in screenwriting, which I hate to bring up, but there
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: it is, us one degree. Heads were just poking at
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the guy's like liver in Operation and they're like, he's dead.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I forgot. I don't forget how that game works. That's
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: more or less it. If you lose Operation, does he die? Oh?
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: That's yeah, what are the stakes? I don't lose? Does
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: a man die? That's really dark. I actually don't remember.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I haven't played in stuff. Oh, Jamie, I played a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Shrek version of Operation. Oh. I forgot about that. It
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: was right before I had my sludge surgery. For those
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: of you who don't know what I'm talking about, get
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: with the program the whole podcast about it. But I
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: had my gall bladder removed. Um, but I was told
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: that I had sludge in my gallbladder. Anyway, It was
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: a whole thing. But the Shrek, So you perform operations
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: on Shrek and right around where a person or Ogre's
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: gall bladder would be it said, like slugs. So it
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: looked not unlike sludge, and you had to remove the
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: slugs out of his gall bladder area. And it was like,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: so the Shrek operation game was kind of like an
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: oracle for you. Yeah, exactly. I never forget Shrek. Actually
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I don't, now that we're talking about it. I think
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I've only played the Clue board game proper a few times,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: but I did. My cousins had Simpson's Clue, and so
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: that was just like you could be like Mr Burns
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: did it. That's it. It was fun. It's a fun game,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and it's a fun movie. I'm excited to talk about
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: it in this whole genre. I do love who done
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: it indeed, and also, um, I know we'll probably go
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: through all of them. But for in case you're not
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: familiar with the stick of this movie, there's three different endings,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: and so if you went to theaters in you would
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: have seen one of the three endings. But in the
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: in the cut that we that they distribute, now you
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: just the three endings in a row and kind of
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: like none of them makes sense or satisfying. Um, So
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that's part of the thing. Yes, indeed, so should I
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: recap it somehow? I don't know this is this is
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: a difficult movie, do it, But I'll do what I can.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Thank Yes, same. We have no guest mucking up the
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: place today, so we should be fine. No disrespect to
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: all of our wonderful guests. What if this was the
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: What if we did have a guest and they tried
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to murder us? Oh? Wow? Things. I don't know about
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: everyone else, but my mental state is unraveling. Oh I'm
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: deteriorating rapidly, really having some weird thoughts. Weird weird thoughts. Oh, yes, yeah,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: well bear with us, okay, yep. So the movie Clue starts.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: We're in New England. Ever heard of it? Yea, it's
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, the year that my mother was born.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Shout out to Laurie. Hi, Laurie. Yeah. It's a dark
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: and stormy night. And Wadsworth the butler played by Tim
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Curry our king and Icon also the the second most
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: popular Tim Curry movie that starts on a dark and
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: stormy night in a mansion. Wait, the other one being
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Oh Rocky Harker, Oh my gosh, yeah, he's all about
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: that dark and stormy mansion. Yeah, Tim Curry, he does
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: just kind of look like he belonged in a dark
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and stormy mansion. That's true, it makes sense. It does
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: make sense. Yeah. Um. So he arrives at said mansion
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: because there's a dinner party that night. He and other
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: staff members are making preparations. He checks in on the
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: maide A k Yvette, then he checks in with the cook.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Guests start arriving. They've all received a letter from a
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: man who lives at the mansion question Mark and has
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: invited them to this dinner party. He has given them
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: all an alias, so when the guests arrive, they are
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: addressed as Colonel Mustard. He gets there first. That's Martin
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Mole icon Gene Parmesan from Arrested Development So Good. Next
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: to arrive is Mrs White that's Madeline Cohn, then Mrs
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Peacock played by Eileen Brennan in Year. For a second,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: you're like Susan Sir Randon, because you're so to seeing
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: her in Tim curry movies about dark and stormy nights.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: But it's not her. See, I think miss Scarlett looks
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: like it's right, that's who I was talking, That's who
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I was talking about Mrs Peacock is has like the
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: feathered hat. It is very hard to keep the character's
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: names straight, truly, is I kept My notes might be
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: jumbled also because most of them, I would say, except
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: for Mrs Peacock, have a name that is related to
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: a color, either a color specifically or like mustard yellow.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Of course, there's Mr Green, he shows up. Next, there's
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Mrs White, Miss Scarlett, that's a color, and then Professor
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Plum Plum purple purple, but no one wears the color
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: of the name that they are given, which is um rude.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: So then Mr Green shows up. That's Michael McKean. And
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: then outside down the road we have Miss Scarlett that's
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Leslie and Warren. She has car trouble, and then Professor
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Plum played by Christopher Lloyd, who was having a great
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: year in Because this is also when Back to the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Future came out. Yeah, I think that if Back to
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the Future had come out before this, he probably wouldn't
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: be in this movie. So this is like the last
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: chance you get Christopher Lloyd in like a supporting, supporting role.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: So he drives by, picks up Miss Scarlett, and they
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: both arrive at the mansion and everyone sits down for dinner,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: but no one knows what's going on really who anybody
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: else is. But they all start chatting and they figure
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: out that everyone has ties to Washington, d C. And
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: it's also like the McCarthy era, so you're it. It
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: took a while for me to like click in what
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: they were doing with the historical like setting, because I
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: was like, why were they going through the trouble of
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: having this? But it's all vaguely. I'm like, is this
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: movie trying to say something? If so, I don't know
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: what it is, but I think they might be sort
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of trying to say something by setting it in the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: McCarthy era. And it's like a bunch of Washington elite
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: in the McCarthy era because a little later on we
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: find out that this Mr. Body guy is blackmailing everyone
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: because they're like, you're an American and instead of reporting
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: you to the like house an American Activities Committee, I'm
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: gonna make money guys camping it. It's like it's very
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: campy commentary where that's the one moment where you're like, oh,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: that's what they're trying to say, okay, Like and then
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: in all three endings, you find out that communism was
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: a red herring, and it's like, what are you talking about? Right?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: It's so campy that I'm like, I don't know, I
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: don't know how much of it is like camping, how
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: much of it is like good Americans? You know, Like
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I also, Jonathan Lynde is British, so he might just
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: be making fun of Americans in general. We don't know.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: We don't watch this movie for the message. Okay, speak
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: for yourself, Jimmie, I'm looking for inscsive political commentary. Clue
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: a movie. It's an allegory for the red scare, now, Okay.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: So then the seventh guest arrives, Mr Body and Wadsworth
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: is like, hey, everyone, the reason that you're all here
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: is that you're being blackmailed. And then we find out
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: the various reasons each character is being blackmailed, such as
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Professor Plum is a former psychiatrist who lost his license
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: because he assaulted his female patients. Yikes, and that's a joke.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Huh huh, So we'll talk about that. Um Mrs Peacock
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: takes shady political bribes on behalf of her politician husband.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Her husband, her husband, um Miss Scarlett runs an escort service.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard is a client of that escort service. Mrs
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: White probably killed her husband, and then you later find
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: out probably killed. Mrs White's character gets better and better
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: as the movie because she is fine. And then Mr
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Green is gay and has to stay in the closet
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: to keep his job in the State Department. So those
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: are all the reasons they are being blackmailed. I do
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: at least appreciate that Mr Green opens by saying, I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: am not ashamed of it, but it is basically I'm
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: not ashamed of it. However, it is ninety four. That's
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: more than I expected of So I'll give a little
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: tip of the hat. Yeah, there's a whole conversation to
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: be had about the way all of that is framed.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: But and then we learned that Mr Body is the
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: one who is blackmailing everyone. But Wadsworth is like, good news.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: The police will be here in forty five minutes and
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you can tell the police that you're being blackmailed and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Mr Body can be brought to justice. Then Mr Body
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: gives everyone a weapon, which are a candlestick, a new pipe, wrench, gun,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: and dagger, and he's like, here's the thing. If you
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: expose me, you're also exposing yourself for whatever it is
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that you're being blackmailed for. But if one of you
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: kills Wadsworth, then this whole thing can be over. So
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Mr Body shuts off the light. Then there's a thud,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: a gunshot, and a scream, and when the light is
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: turned back on, it's Mr Body who has been killed.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Your Body is a great character name. I don't know why.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: It's so like, it's so achy. Um, yeah, you can't
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: kill Tim Curry this early in the movie. It doesn't happen,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: certainly not. Tim Curry is such a champion in this movie,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: where like if you think about, like how much more
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: dialogue he has than everyone, because he's just like paragraphs
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of exposition at a time, just on a You're like,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: what a professional, right, incredible. Everyone starts freaking out. No
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: one knows who killed Mr Body or with what weapon.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Then Wadsworth reveals his motive for wanting Mr Body to
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: be brought to justice, which is that his wife. His
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: wife was being blackmailed by Mr Body, which led her
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to end her life. And this is where we get
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the whole Like Mr Body thought you were all doing
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: something un American. Right, So everyone's bad, no one's good,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: No one is good. And that's part of what makes
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Who Done It's fun is that people everyone is usually
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: everyone's a suspect and it's well, I can't wait to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: talk about Who Done? It's in class anyways. Um okay,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Then they find another dead body. The cook has been
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: killed in the kitchen with the dagger, the only woman
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: of color, the only person whose name we don't learn,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: and then she gets like one or two lines of
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: dialogue before she is murder. Yeah. Yeah, this movie was
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: not thoughtful in terms of um, non white characters really
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: at all. True. Um So, then they all come back
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: into the room, which and I was losing track of
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: what room was what in this movie, but I think
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: they're in the study and Mr Body's body is gone.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: But then they find it again, in this time it
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: is bloody and he is definitely dead. Right. Then a
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: motorist shows up at the doorstep and needs to use
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the phone because his car broke down, so they locked
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: him in the lounge. I think, there's so many it's
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: a mansion. You're just like too many fucking rich people
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: in their many many rooms, and they are they're like, oh,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: a library, a study, a billiard's room, a lounge, especially
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: right now where we're all like locked in small spaces
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: to various capacities, and like, how dare you stiple floors
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: grow up? Not fair? Um, So they locked him in
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the lounge, and they decided that they should search the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: rest of the house to make sure there's no one
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: else who might be in there who is just like
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: popping up to commit a murder and then like go
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: back into hiding. So they split into pairs and search
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the house, and everyone still suspects everyone else of being
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the murderer. We don't know who has done it. We
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: don't know. They also like kind of uncharacteristic for who
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: done it, Like they don't. The movie doesn't super try
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: to convince you it's any specific person. I feel like,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: usually who done it? Movies are like, oh, this guy
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: is looking pretty suspicious, but you're kind of just like
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: watching people walk around a really nice house. But but
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: it's fine, that's true. I'm surprised there's not a character
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: named like Mr. Red Herring. Oh, yes, he was the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Red Herring, of course, but communism is the red Herring.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I guess that's like I'm like, sure, I don't like
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: And then by the time this comes out, it's the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: reggae administration, so God only knows where everyone's values were at,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: so the disaster. So they're searching the house, and while
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: they're searching, we see the motorists get murdered with the
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: wrench in the lounge. But by whom, who done it,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: whom don't know, whom done it, whom's done it. Then
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard and Miss Scarlett discover a secret passage, which
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: was how the murderer snuck into the lounge to kill
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the motorist. Uh. And then a random cop shows up
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and searches the house and they have to pretend to
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: like make out with the dead bodies. I forgot about
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: that part. I've always forget about and it makes me
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: laugh so much. It's such a funny theme where they're
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: like making out with the corpses, especially the one where
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: they're holding like the cook between two people, and you're
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: just like, oh, it's so it's so cross um, it's
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: a Then Mustard and Scarlet find another secret passage that
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: leads from the kitchen into the study. Then the murderer
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: turns the power off in the house and then in
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the dark, I know spook and in the dark whoever
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the murderer is, kills Yvette, the maid with the rope
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: in the billiard's room, then kills the police officer with
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the pipe in the library. I think there's a book
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: in there. There's a library, could be possible. Um. And
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: then the murderer shoots the singing telegram lady who shows up.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: So now there are six murders total. And then Wadsworth
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: is like, guess what. I know what happened and who's
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: behind it. He's figured out who done it. How does
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Tim Curry not get a olden globe for this ending performance?
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. The writing is like not really doing much,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: but he's like he's like Sebastian Maniscalco, like running around.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: It's so he's zipping, he's dashing. Um. Yeah. Basically what
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: happens is in order for any of this movie to
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: make sense, he's like, I have to take you through
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the events of the evening step by step, and then
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: he basically goes into a Caitlin's famous recap where he
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: just recaps the entire movie that we've already seen. If
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: you like fell down, every five seconds of the recap,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: it's basically the same thing. Yeah, it's just like prop
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: fall after prop I should start doing that. You should, Yeah,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: you'll get a golden globe, thank you. Um. But here's
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: the thing. Some new information gets revealed during this recap,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: which is that when they first found Mr Body dead,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: he was only pretending to be dead. And then we
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: also find out that Yvette and the Cook were Mr
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Body's accomplices that helped him collect info on the people
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: who he would later blackmail. Then Wadsworth figures out that
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yvette killed the cook and then killed Mr Body. Um,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: but who killed Vette and the others who done it? Well,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it was miss Scarlett and for reasons that I've already
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: forgotten right in this ending, So this is ending a y.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: I also was reading about an elusive fourth ending that
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: they shot but cut from the movie because it was
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: They were like it was too stupid. I'm like, oh,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: it would have had to have been really stupid, because
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the three that you get are total nonsense. Yeah yeah,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: um the second one ending b like the movie says,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: that's how it could have happened. But what if this happens,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: and it's that Mrs Peacock is the murderer again for
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: reasons I forget what her whole mom about her husband
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and something no clear physicist, some plan for a fusion
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: bomb or something. It's all very nineteen fifty is. You're
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: like sure, but then we get how the movie claims
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: is what really happened, which is that so basically everyone
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: each person killed one other person. So Plumb killed Mr Body,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock killed the cook, Colonel Mustard killed the motorist,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Mrs White killed Yvette, Miss Scarlett killed the cop. Wadsworth
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: killed the singing telegram lady. That's so it's so funny
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: when that they killed the singing telegram lady. She's just like, up,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: it's so funny. And then it turns out that Wadsworth
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: is Mr Body, so Mr Green shoots Wadsworth because he's
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: an FBI plant. And then all the FBI guys come
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: in and they're like, who we saved a day. We're like,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: who cops. So that's the story, with its various endings.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come right
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: back to discuss, and we're back. Uh okay, you know what,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I think this is a good challenge feminism in clue
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the movie. I guess I wanted to start with just
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: a little like women in Who Done It's at large
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: because I've seen many, many, many of them. There's pros
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: and cons to the portrayal of women and who Done It?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: So obviously our most recent who Done It? That did
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: really well was Knives Out. I really enjoyed that movie.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like, hopefully we'll probably do an episode on
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: it at some point probably, but yeah, I think that
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the female characters in that story are fully fleshed out,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Like the hero of the story is a woman in
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and not a person that's in this like, I don't know.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Nine of these stories concern wealthy white people. A lot
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: of it comes down to like and I think that
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: in some way, I hope that we get Who Done
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: It to take place outside of that world. The closest
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: thing I could find is Identity, which is technically who
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Done It? And that's like a gritty who Done It?
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I saw that John Cusack is in it.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and that at least doesn't like concern
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: rich people. It's still all white people, but it's not
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: all rich people, and it's supposed to be great. I
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's like a fine movie, but in general
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: it concerns wealthy white people trying to figure out who
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: murdered a wealthy white person, and the answer is always
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: another wealthy white person. Um. So, so that is kind
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: of the history of the genre. It's definitely capable of more,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: but that's basically what it's been so far, kind of
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: including and like with some even though Knives Out has twists,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: it's still concerns a wealthy white family. Anyways, as far
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: as women go, more women right who Done It? Than
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: men in literature where there is like a huge legacy
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: of female mystery authors that go into the present. Obviously
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Agatha Christie is the most famous one who wrote who
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Done It specifically, but there is a huge legacy of
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: female mystery writers, female who've Done It writers and female
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: detectives in media like your Nancy Drew's and Murder she
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: wrote and on and on um And even though her
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: her Keel Poiro is a guy who was written by
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Agatha Christie's so there's a lot of female representation in
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: on the novel side, there is no female representation in
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the movie adaptations of these female penned stories. None of
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: this super applies to Clue because it is being adapted
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: from a board game. Uh was written and rewritten by
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: like four different men before the director ended up getting
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: the writing credit. But there was like so many Anthony
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Perkins did a draft of this script. Stephen Sondheim did
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: a draft of this script. Tom Stoppard, like the famous playwright,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: did a draft of this script, didn't. John Landis also
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: work on it, see like he has like a story
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: by credit. He'd yeah, he he was involved in it
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: in the beginning. He was originally supposed to direct. But
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: it's with the exception of feminist icon Deborah hill Um,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: who also produced. We've talked about her on the show
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: before because of her um spearheading the Halloween franchise. But
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: with the exception this movie, it's it's like the original
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: stories are written by women, and in Hollywood they've only
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: i mean, down to Ryan Johnson, basically only been adapted
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: by men. So that's kind of the thing. I think.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I'm curious in your opinion on this, Caitlin. They still
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: definitely work misogyny into this story, and they work misogyny
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: into most of these stories a lot of times. When
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: you see the room full of rich white people, the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: women in the room, are someone's his wife, or they're
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: defined by their sexuality. They're never defined by their job.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: They usually take place in the past, which I think
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: people use as a justification for them to not have
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: a job. But what I like about this is like
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: a real but like just because of how Who Done
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: It has to work? I like that for the story
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: to work, you have to give the female characters agency,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: otherwise you're not going to suspect them. That's true. So
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: in that way, I feel like it's one of the
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: only movie genres that like. Empowering your female characters to
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: a certain extent is like a necessity, And so that
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: is partially why I like Who Done It's they're just fun,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: But that makes sense, I don't know. That's that's uh
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: my context corner for the Who Done It? Appreciate it,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: thank you. It also reminds me of we've had this conversation.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Not a ton, but I've noticed in various slash or
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: movies I've watched that there seems to be gender parody
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: in the cast of usually teenagers. But it's because they
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: need women there to have sex with the boys that
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: are there, so that the women can then be killed
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: for having had sex the Um. Yeah, yeah, this is
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: this is weirdly. I mean it's not a very horny
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: movie and I and I like that for this movie.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: This movie does feel like it could have very easily
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: been a cartoon, and I mean that is a compliment.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: It is quite cartoony. Yeah, um, so that's the this
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: is by far I think, like the goofy like it's
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: basically a parody of Who Done It movies, which is
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: kind of weird to watch now because they're not very
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: popular anymore, or they just became popular again, so you're
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: like there are certain tropes that they're making fun of
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: that you're like, oh, is that a thing? I guess,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: so whatever. Yeah, I feel like it was far more
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: popular in like the film noir era and I have
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: a whole thing, a whole spiel on them fatalels. But um,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: it has a resurgence in the seventies as well. There's
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a bunch of like solid ones from the seventies. The
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: best one, I m oh being the Last of Sheila,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: which is a which is a boat Who Done It?
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: And it's really it's really it's super super fun and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and Anthony Perkins was involved in writing that, which is
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: why they asked him to write Clue. Um, it was
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: just like it's a lot of people quit clue. No
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: one could crack the story, and some could argue they
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: never did, they never did. I love when movies are
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: adapted from a board game or a Disney park ride
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: like and then sometimes they have the audacity to be
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: fun movies, but it's no wonder when the stories are
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: often flimsy at best because the source material is a
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: game or a theme park ride. But yeah, and in
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the seventies, you had Murder on the Orient Express, the
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: original one, you had the Last of Sheila, you had, uh,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: what else did you have? The Beast Must Die? That's
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: a that's a weird one. Death on the Nile, that's
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: a good one. So like this would be coming like
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: off of people would have more of a frame of
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: reference than they do for it now, like we basically
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: just have knives out. Is really the only who done
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: it of our generation? More contemporary one? Sure? Well that
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: that brings me to a section of my notes that
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: I have entitled women be Murdering. So I'll start there
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: hit it and this kind of focuses on the endings
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: of the movie. So we've got the three endings. So
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: in ending A, which is the one where Yvette kills
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: the first two victims and then Miss Scarlett kills the rest, right, Um,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: so that's the that's ending A. Ending B is when
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock has killed everyone. In all versions of the story,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Mrs White is thought to have killed various husbands of hers.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: So when you include Mrs White between these first two endings,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: there are four people who have committed murder in either
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the backstory or on screen, and they are all women,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: which reminded me of sort of the film fatale archetype,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: which is something we haven't talked about a lot because
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: we haven't really covered any film noir or neo noir.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I think the closest we got to really talking about
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: it was in our Who Frame Roger Rabbit episode, which
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: is behind the paywall on the Matreon. But yeah, yeah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: we haven't discussed it much. Yes, So I felt as
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: though at least a few of the female characters in
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the story have some fem fatale traits, especially Miss Scarlett.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Miss Scarlett for sure, Mrs White. I feel like there's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: some things there. Um. I would like to cover of
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: film noir sometime soon, because I think it would be
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: really interesting to talk about the film fatale trope. Get
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: on our Cariina Longworth wave. Oh yeah, what's the what's
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: the really famous one? Double Indemnity. I haven't seen that
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: since film school, where I only went once. In any case,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is a you know, it
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: feels like there's these film Fatale like characters present in
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: the story, which I couldn't help but notice that, like,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: at least in the first two endings, it's like, oh,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: there are like four evil women who be murdering everybody.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: My main thing is because it's like we have to
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: like it is I I kind of wonder and they've
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: never leaked what the fourth ending was. I like, was
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: there murder parody if you had all four endings, because
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: it definitely does lean female heavy, and like, because there's
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: a fourth one, maybe it ended up being closer. But yeah,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: with the way it ends. My my issue is I
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: kind of like that they end up doing the murders
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: because at least I'm like, well, at least they're doing
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: you know, they're active. But my my main thing is
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: more how they're like just in a movie that's so
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: goofy and you can write anyone as anyone. They're still
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: relegated to being wives, with the exception of Miss Scarlett,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: who I feel like, you know, she she runs a business,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: but I feel like she even is like shoved in
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: a corner of like, well, of course she wouldn't work
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: for the government like all the men in the room,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: you know, she runs. I don't know. I mean, I
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: like all the female characters, and I like they're also
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: cartoony and fun, and it's kind of a bummer that
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: all these male writers couldn't imagine past them being wives
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: or sex workers like that is I feel like very
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: telling of the offers because I don't think that there's
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: clue I don't I actually I'll look that up. I
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: don't know if there's board game canon of like the
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: people that these are supposed to be, because they're given
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: like board game canon names. But the characters, like the
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Washington d C Neists is totally inherent to the movie,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: so they could be anybody. Um. So I was bummed
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: out by the endless choices and then they were still
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: relegated to the same kind of stereotypical roles. And I
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: have a feeling like the writers and the filmmakers would
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: have justified that by being like, well, we said it
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: in the fifties, when you know, women were housewives, and
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: it's like, first of all, not every woman, and secondly,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: you didn't have to do that, and right yeah, like
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, that's always such a weak excuse to me.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, no one has a gun to Jonathan
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Lynde's head, being like, you better said it at a
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: time that was difficult for women, that you could have
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: easily said that in the eighties, And you're right, like
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: women were in the workforce in the fifth plenty of
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: women had careers in the fifties. It's it's just kind
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: of it's just a bummer choice in general, because it
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: could be more satisfying to see them do the murders
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: if they were given I mean, just like comparable motives
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: to to the male characters. I guess the only like
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: it's I feel like it's a total waste of Mrs
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Peacock and also there's like mrs and ms and like
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: they're always given these very like feminine you know, identifiers
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: of like is she married or is she not married
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: exactly exactly. I mean that's not a problem in her
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: into clue, but whereas like there's Professor Plum, there's Colonel Mustard.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: You know, they have these like they're defined by their
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: jobs jobs, right, So I was disappointed in that. I
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: still I Mrs White. I feel like Mrs White is
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: at least like there is some I guess I wouldn't
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: call it like commentary necessarily, but at least with her,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like they are like poking fun at a
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: trope that is seen in these movies of like, I
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: feel like she's almost like a little bit of a
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: like satirical fem faytale because she femd faytale's in the
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: same way over and over and over and over um,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: which is kind of funny. She has a line of
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: dialogue when she says, um, husbands should be like Kleenex, soft,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: strong and disposable. Yeah, and we're like, yes, feminist icono
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Mrs White, because like it's right in that moment when
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: we find out she's had five husbands who she has
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: presumably killed them all, and someone asks her like, how
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: many husbands have you had, Mrs White? And she's like
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: mine or other women's or something like that, and it's like, oh,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: so she also like sucks a bunch of other people's
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: husbands as well, right, and then she tries to like
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: seduce Wadsworth at the end, and you're just like, or
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: one of the ends, I guess, I don't even remember
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: which one. They're My favorite Mrs White, Bote is when
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: she goes, it's a matter of life after death. Now
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: that he's dead, I have a life, and you're like
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: it's all so right around then that she says life
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: after death is as improbable as sex after marriage, and
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: it's like she's like a Cathy comic, Like she's such
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: a like she's like a magnet on your mom's fridge,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Like do you think she's just like really horny. And
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: she marries a man and once they get married, they
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: don't want to have sex with her anymore, so she
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: just kills them so she can like marry the next guy.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I kind of like that it's not specified. I feel
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: like it would have been a very easy throwaway jug
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: for them to like label her as like a gold
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: digger or like something like that. But we don't know
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: why she kills all her husband's were like, that's just
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: her thing, that's what she does. I stand Mrs White.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I really like her, and that I found out that
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: that this was like a very heavily scripted movie. But
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: at the end though, like one bit of improv that
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: made it into the movie was whatever the ending is,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: where she's like explaining why she did it, She's like,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: the flames were in my face, the flame the names.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I guess you just made that up and it stayed.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: You can tell that's improvised because it's not very tight,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: because that makes no sense. Um, let's take a quick
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: break and then we'll come right back and we're back,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: all right. So my main issue, or one of my
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: main issues with the movie is the violence that is
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: enacted against women, which be so okay. So this is
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: a movie where there's a lot of cartoony but still
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: pretty brutal violence that happens to a lot of different
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: characters of all genders, such as a bunch of people
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: are murdered, but but the way it's done to women
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: is different. It's different. Women are assaulted physically or sexually
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: to a greater extent, and it's sometimes like not even
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: as a murder, sometimes it's just as a site gag
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: exact where there's a few examples. Yeah, so I I
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: have a list of examples, Professor Plum grabs Miss Scarlett's
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: ass at the very beginning get its own insert shot.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: So why it's I guess to establish that he is
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: horny because we later find out his backstory of having
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: his medical license being revoked because he assaulted his female patients, which, again,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: like you mentioned, Jamie is played as a joke for
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the most part, and he continues to assault women throughout
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the movie. Mr Body grabs Yvette's asked at dinner. Mrs
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Peacock is screaming after she thinks she might have been poisoned,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: and Mr Green slaps her across the face and then
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: he goes like what I had to get her to
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: stop screaming, And then later Wadsworth slaps her again when
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: he's recreating that moment with his little recap Yeah with Caitlin,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: and Caitlin has never lapped someone during her recap for
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the record, Um, it's true, but yeah, I mean, I
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: think there's a few moments there where it's just like
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: the joke is, like women be hysterical, right, there's a
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: lot of like moments of I mean, and there's a
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: few moments where men are screaming, but it's far outnumbered
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: by like usually Mrs Peacock, but also it's it's the
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Yvette at one point. But it's just like, you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: women be hysterical, is alive and well in this movie, right,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: women be overreacting, women be the women be fainting. We
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: have several different it's and I think it's mostly Mrs Peacock,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: but she faints a number of times. Then we see
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the cook. She pretty early in the story gets murdered.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Her dead body is lugged and dragged around, dropped, trampled on.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: They also like mock her body as well, like they
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: make it seem like she's she's really difficult to lift.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: It's just it's so like, I mean, there's only two
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: people of color in this movie and they are both
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: killed almost instantly. And to add insult to injury, yeah,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: the cook does not even get a name, and they
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: like make fun of her. They body shame her corpse,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and you're just like what on earth? Totally because she's
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: a plus sized woman and the movie goes out of
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: its way to show how difficult it is for the
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: other characters to lift her and carry her. And she's like, yeah,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: she's totally body shamed, even after her death, and it's horrible. Yeah,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: but it's a very body normative casting process, so it's
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: very like, it's very agreed aus the way that that's presented.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: For a few more examples on this list is that, um,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: the characters are looking at Colonel Mustard's compromising sex photos
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: and Mrs White says, no one can get into that position,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: and Professor Plums like, sure, they can, let me show you,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: and then he like grabs Mrs White kind of pushes
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: her down on a couch and then gets on top
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: of her to demonstrate this thing, and she's like, get
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: off of me. Oh. We see Professor Plumb rest his
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: hand on the cook's but again after she's dead, for
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: no reason, just just to a visual jokes. I guess
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: there's a Yeah. I mean, I think most of the
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: like assaults on women and the I mean none of
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: them are not jokes. They're all they're all jokes that
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the logic is very like this is how you treat women.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: But at N eleven right, yeah uh. And then there
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: was I think one more that I noticed, which is that, um,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard and Miss Scarlett are searching the house together,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: they like go into a dark room, and he's like,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: what room is this and she says search me as
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: in like I don't know, But then he starts groping
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: her and she has to be like, get your mits
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: off of me. So, yeah, it's just women being assaulted constantly.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: And then I would argue and there's a whole conversation
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: to be had about Mr Green's sexuality. But except for
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: in the third ending when they like undo him being
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a queer man, you assume for most of the movie
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: that he is gay because he identifies himself as such. Um,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: but I would argue that he is also more brutalized
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: than the other straight male characters. There's a bunch of
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: scenes where like there and again, there's a lot of
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: scenes where like a lot of the characters are being
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: rough with each other. But I feel like Mr Green
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: gets the worst of it because you see that scene
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: where you know, Wadsworth is dragging him around and throwing
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: him down on the floor during the recap, and then
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: he's also slapped twice by two different men at the
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: end of the like at the second ending, I feel
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: like that is supposed to like directly imply that you
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: would treat a queer man the way you would treat
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: a woman. It's just, yeah, the only part of I mean,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: it's Mr Green's character. I mean, it's just it's complicated,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: it's weird. I mean there's one yeah, there, you're right,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: there's one ending where they totally undo it and they're
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: like just kidding, no homo. And that's like the ending
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: joke of that version of the movie, because he says like,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: I'm an FBI plant and I'm going to go home
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: and have sex with my wife. Because like, I couldn't
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: tell if that was like, if that was undoing it,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: or if that was him like lying to his coworkers.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what Oh, I didn't even consider that.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I thought maybe that the way I interpreted it, although
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: like I think that it's easily interpreted your way as well.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Was that he because he says at the beginning, like
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a gay man, I'm not ashamed of this um,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: but if my workplace finds out, I'll be fired. And
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: at the end he's in front of all his coworkers,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: So I thought he was like, I gotta go have
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: sex with my wife. By that very well could be
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: the case. My interpretation of it was that, like and
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: this is maybe just like my beck dol goggles like
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: clouding my vision a little too much sometimes and me
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: being very cynical. But I was like, oh, because he's
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: allowed to be the hero in this version of the story,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: they're not going to allow him to be gay. His
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: declaration of of being a gay man is was fake.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Listeners sound off. Yeah, I think that there's different ways
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: to look at it. I guess I'll optimistically hope that
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: he is like just kidding, I'm going home to my
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: communist boyfriend. I hope. I hope that too. Um, but yeah, no,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I do agree that he's like treated physically different than
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: the identified hetero guys in in the story. Um, it's
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: it's frustrating because it's like we have a queer character
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: who it's not coded. They stated there's no shame involved
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: with it, but even in that scene where he says
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: like I'm not ashamed of it, you cut to three
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: different characters who clearly think it's gross for sure, where
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: everyone's like what and then and then it's kind of like,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, like every every like suspect character, you don't
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: just there's too many. You can't spend that much time
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: with them. But then it just kind of like disappears.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't like I like that choice
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: for a character, and like in the era they choose
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: to set the movie in which they did not have to,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: but like they do. I like that there's some queer representation.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I just don't like that how it unfolds and how
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: it's really handled. So it's it stinks. The first like
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds of it is like really cool, and then
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: it becomes not cool anymore because in addition to him
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: saying like I feel no guilt or shame about that,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: the movie allows him to come out himself, like because
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: is he's outing everyone else's wrongdoings or whatever it is
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: that they're being blackmailed. Four And then finally it comes
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: to Mr Green and he stands up and he's like,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: here's my thing. So like no one outs him. He's
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: the only person that's done nothing wrong. Also exactly totally right, um,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: but yeah, he like he comes out himself. No one
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: outs him because like Wadsworth was, you know, revealing everyone
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: else's secrets. But Mr Green comes out himself to the
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: fact that he was. The movie allows him to do
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: that was interesting and unexpected for me. I kind of
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: wonder because there were so many drafts of the script,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: it's kind of impossible to track who that belonged to.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: But Anthony Perkins was a queer writer. I'm like, maybe
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: that's an Anthony Perkins thing. I don't know, I wonder,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: I wonder, but um, queer visibility in the movie Clue.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'd be interested to hear what our queer
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: listeners think about that, and if you have any additional insights,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: let us know. Yeah, we already touched on the very
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: limited number of of people of color in the movie.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: The cook the cop are the only two. They are
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: not given actual names. They're both minor characters who were
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: killed not long after we meet them. They didn't need
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: to kill the cop, Like I was like bummed. I
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: was bummed out, um, and I always am bobbed out
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: that day because he's of such a fun character. He
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: enters and it's kind of fun to have like a
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: bumbling cop character who's like everything looks fine to me,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: and everyone's like, you know, humping corpses and it's funny,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: and he's like they're just having a good time, right,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: It's so it's so funny. He's like this man's drunk
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: like dead drunk dead, right, There's there's so much dumb
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: word play in this movie. I like it. Um yeah,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: there was no I don't think that that character needed
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: to die, and he like that's a fun character to
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: keep in the mix for the rest of the movie. Sure. Yeah.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: And then let's not forget the reveal that Mrs Peacock's
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: favorite recipe was monkey brains quote, though popular in Cantonese cuisine,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: are not you know, often found in Washington, d c.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Or whatever. So just a racist little detail that absolutely
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: didn't need to be there. Yeah, this movie. It's weird
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: because it's like this movie is very of its time,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and then it's also very of the nineteen fifties. So
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: it's just like two eras that don't farewell for most
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: people that are not straight white guys. In one movie,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Tim Curry can't say it enough though he's great, Oh
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: love him. Things Uh facts about there. There was like
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: a pretty good um oral history style piece about Clue
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: that came out, Um, I think in two thousand thirteen
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: that just kind of tracks there's not I mean, there's
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: not a lot of you know, wildness behind the scenes
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: of this movie. It was written and rewritten by a
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: bunch of different men, a bunch of writers quit to
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: the point where the director had to finish it. The
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: closest thing I could find at any controversy behind the
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: scenes was the costuming. I guess that Jonathan Lynn definitely
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: needlessly had his female actors where really constrictive corsets during
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: the course of which is like wasn't even a thing
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: in the fifties, really, So what is this Titanic right
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: doing up roses corset? So they all had to like
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: wear these brutal corsets, and they just like laid out
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: these like diagonal boards so that if the women like
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: felt short of breath, they could just lean against the
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: board and catch their breath and keep shooting. So that's
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: that's not very thoughtful. Meanwhile, I read that um like
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: between takes because there's the billiards room where there was
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: the guys with typical stuff. The men would play pool
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: and the women had to like, you know, lie down
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: because of their painful costume. That's cool. Well, and then
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: speaking of costumes, we've got yvettes French made costume, yes,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: which and she's like a French character. I don't even
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: know what to even say about out Besides like that's ridiculous.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Her whole character is essentially a visual joke in many
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: different ways where it's like her her boobs are very
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: much out, it's a very short like it. It's more
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: of a French made costume that you would see in
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: like a soft porn than or like on like Halloween,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: like people like I'm a sexy French maid, right, And
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: it's like the the the actress who who played um
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Evette let me get her name, like Colleen Camp, she
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: was like completely on board with it. Um. She thought
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: it was funny. It wasn't like it wasn't the situation
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: where she like she didn't want to be presented in
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: that way. She was, you know, fine, fine with it.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: But I mean, it is just it's such a male
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: gazy Like there's that really long shot from the top
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: of the stairs down into her cleavage. That is just
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: it's a long shot strictly because you're supposed to be
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: ogling her boobs. Like that's just as they make they
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: make a visual joke of her a lot. And I mean,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: I guess that the the only argument for it is
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: that the actress was in on the joke in okay
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: with it, but it's still it's just like it's just
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: juvenile and dumb, right, Yeah, I mean, if she wanted
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: to wear it and she was cool with it, you know,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: her body, her choice. But but yeah, I mean, I
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: think in the costuming department, and because it's clear that
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: the character was written as being presented that way, it's
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: like a pretty clear like male gaze visual joke. But yeah,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: she's cool. So oh. Also, so let's talk about the weapons,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: shall we. I was wondering, are there, because we talked
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: so much about women's weapons, are there any actual weapons
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: given to women? I couldn't track which weapon went to
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: which person. Here's what I remember. I didn't write down
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: exactly who was gifted what, but from memory because there
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: are some household objects, but then there's also some weapons.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Professor Plum receives the gun. Okay, Mrs Peacock receives I
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: think she's the one who gets the dagger, Miss Scarlett.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Miss Scarlett gets the candlestick. So is a woman who
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: gets the household item at very at least this is
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: board game cannon, but that's yeah. Mrs White gets the
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: rope um. Colonel Mustard gets I think the wrench okay,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: sort of a weapon, I don't know, a tool more
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: than anything. Mr Green, which one does he get? Oh?
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: The pipe? So the main one that's a like domestic
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: you know, like kind of more. I guess none of
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: them are very gendered items, except maybe you could argue that,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: like the candlestick is like a more decor than anything else,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: and if we're yeah, that's I mean, I guess we
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: do see it in various And again I'm like, I
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: can't track the endings of this, but the we do
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: see Yvette shoot a gun, like there's like women do
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: get to use weapons in this movie, and especially because
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: in two out of the three endings they are the
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: culprits for the most Yes, we get to see them
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: using them. We see if also stabbed the cook with
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: the dagger, and yeah, that one ending we also but
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: then we see Yvette kill Mr Body with the candlestick,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: which is again, of those items, it's the one that's
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: the most sort of like domestic item. But then Professor
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Plumb uses it too. Can we also revoke him of
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: his professor title because he's a fucking rapist um While
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: it's the fifties, he'd never get fired for being a rapist.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Mr Plumb, I'll call him. Uh he uses the candlestick.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it feels like there's kind of like it
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel to me that the movie subscribes to anything
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: like the women have to use like quote feminine items
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: and the men get to use like actual weapons. That's
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: a relief, okay, because I I was I liked that
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: in I mean, I don't really like all the endings
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: kind of suck, but but the fact that you do
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: get to see women like they're not relegated to certain weapons,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: that is that's a pro Yeah, feminist. I on lead pipe, Yes,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: I love to see a lead pipe connecting. Um, that's good,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah. Carrie Fisher was supposed to be Miss
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Scarlett in this movie and then um she wasn't able
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: to do the movie. So that makes me sad she
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: would have been so goodness, I know. Well, speaking of
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Miss Scarlett, I don't remember exactly how much we touched
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: on this or not. But so she's like a sex worker.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: She runs she runs her own business, she runs an
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: escort service, and she seems to be like proud of
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: her work. Um, so whether or not, other characters are
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: obviously other characters think that her work is on savory
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: because she's being blackmailed for it, But um, there's no
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: shame that she feels attached to her work. I like,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess my I'm like, and this is
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: like asking more of clue than I could possibly give you.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: But it does. Some of the endings get into like, oh,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: this was a former employee of hers and blah blah blah,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, cool, she has her own business. She
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: is like sex worker representation. But then I'm always like,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: but if she's the boss, like, I need some more information.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: How does she treat her employees? Also all women? Is
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: she protecting them? Is she selling them out too? Well? Yeah,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: because and that brings that will bring me to some
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: like motive things I want to talk about. But um,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: I think it's the like ending a the first one
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: we see, she says the line like all members of
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist. So apparently she loves capitalism.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: She well, everyone in this movie loves capitalism so much.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, so I like, like, it's like some representation,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: but I don't think it's it's particularly everyone everyone in
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: this story except for Mr. Green is a horrible person
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: just canonically their whole bad, bad bad What is it?
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Isn't it? Colonel Mustard, you find out that he like
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: took like radio parts from different like World War to
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: um like fighter jets and then it killed a bunch
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: of like American soldiers and he's like, what, I love money,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I was confused about that. I love I mean that
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: actor Martin malt like, shout out to him. He's he
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: is Jane Parmesan, he was, He's bent. He was um
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Willard Kraft on Sabrina the Teenage, which he was on
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Danny Phantom, and he was on my favorite obscure seventies
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: um soap opera, Mary Hartman. Mary Hartman, not familiar with
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: that one. He's a he's a camp icon. He's wonderful.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Everything he does is so goofy um. So yeah. I
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: want to talk about a little bit about um, the
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: various women's like motivations for committing murder, because again, in
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: various endings, we have some of the female characters being
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: murderers or not um, but the ones that we do
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: find out about, like in ending C for example, we
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: learn that Mrs White's motive for killing event was like jealousy,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: like a vent and her husband and had an affair.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: So I thought about that too, but I ended up
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: landing on being like I kind of it kind of
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: ended up being a wash for me because she at
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: least it's not the situation where it's like the woman
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: will just kill the woman who cheated with the husband,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: and the husband gets no come up and she kills
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: all of her husbands too. Yeah, good point. So, I mean,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: I don't like the jealousy motive, but at least if
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: it had to be any of the female characters killing
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: someone out of jealousy, at least with her character, it
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: bugs me less because you know, she's already killed five men,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, So let's let's examine some of these
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: other ones. We've got. Miss Scarlet killed the cop in
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: ending C, so that one doesn't really Mrs Peacock killed
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: the cook, so that's a woman killing a woman. But
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: I forget even why she was the informant or something.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, no one's motivation for murder ring makes sense.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: The plot is often nonsensical and it is very difficult
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: to track. So yeah, maybe, I mean the one that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: did stick out to me the most was like the
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Jealousy one and ending see at least um and endings
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: A and B you have Yvette and Miss Scarlett killing
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: everyone or ms Mrs Peacock killing everyone. I really have
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: to go back and rewatch what all the motives were
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: for those women to kill the other women. So maybe
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: this conversation is just moot. It is kind of hard
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: to track in terms of the endings, like what is
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: like somewhat success and what is just simply bad writing. Um,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Let's see.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: I wanted to point out that, Okay, so a lot
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: of attention is brought to the fact that Tim Curry
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: steps and dogshit at the beginning of the movie, and
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I kept thinking that was going to pay off in
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Someone Does It at All. There's a few insert shots
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: in this movie that you're like, why did you draw
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: our attention to? Right? Is that another? But then if
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: it never but I can't bear red Harry if it
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: never comes up ever, exactly just like it's just bad writing. Um. Yeah,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: it was like, oh, there's probably going to be like
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: a poopy footprint that like is a clue, but that
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: never happens. No, Yeah, I also didn't I mean, I
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: didn't love another like Mrs White choice was. I didn't
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: love when they had her like try to seduce Wadsworth
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: at the end. I didn't think that that was super necessary.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: But it's I don't all the ending suck. I'm like,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: just the endings are just a full like I don't know.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe this goes back to the kind of sem fatale conversation,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: but um, in the beginning of the movie, Colonel Mustard
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: quotes Kipling, Yes bad person, saying the female of the
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: species is more deadly than the male, and it's like, okay,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: is that foreshadowing of some of those endings. I feel
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: like maybe that's as close as the movie gets for
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: you to be like, oh, suspicion. But it is weird
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: how little the movie tries to get you to suspect anyone.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: They're just like, I don't know. Also, just another fun
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: fact I learned was that Mr Bean almost played Tim
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Curry's part, but he wasn't Mr Bean yet and people
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: said he wasn't famous enough. Rowan Atkinson. Mr bean visibility
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: very low in this movie, very low in this movie.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: You know, Frank Confurter visibility high. I love to and Curry.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about. I think I'm going to watch
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: the Tim Curry it soon. I have never seen it.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh it's pretty good. I have some
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: issues with it, but Tim Curry as it. I know,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: it's like it has to be great, amazing, love it.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I'm excited. Um yeah, I think that's about all I
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: had to say. Do you have anything else to me? No?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I mean it's the Rampa Meter. I mean I say
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: it's pretty high. It's a ten out of ten on
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: the Caitlin Rampo Meter. Everyone's romp in a way, especially
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Act three when Tim Curry is dashing around the house.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: It gets so so so rompy. Then yeah, I I
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean it's like this movie is so fun.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: It puts me in a good mood. I love Who
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Done It? And I love Who Done It's that don't
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: take themselves super seriously? And this is like on the
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: far end of that spectrum, but like there's I mean,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Who Done It? To take themselves very seriously can be
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: such a drag. That movie Gosford Park, It's like three
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: hours long and you're just like, oh, I need to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: rewatch that. I barely remember that one it's not great.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I mean it's I think it was like critically acclaimed,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: but it's deeply boring. It's so boring, like you know,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: who done it? They've gotta be fast and they gotta
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: be fun and this is a clue? Does it? It's great?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: There's a movie I think you would like. It's not
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: really a who Done It? But it takes place in
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: the context of like rich family and it all. It
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: mostly takes place within their mansion. But that movie ready
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: or not? Oh, I haven't seen that. It was fun.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: I liked it a lot. I'm down. I'm like, I'm
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: looking for for fun, like thrillers and Who Done It?
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Are are my ship? Like it puts me in a
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: good mood. Yeah, So does this movie pass the Bichtel test? Honestly,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I have no idea because I was too busy trying
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: to follow the plot to pay attention to that I was.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: I was also a little unclear. I think that there
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: are passing things where there's a few times where like
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock will say something to Scarlett and Scarlett will respond,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: but there's no there's no scene between two women. There
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: is only like women talking to each other in passing
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: in the crossfire. But the but often the subtext of
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: the conversation is who killed this man? Uh so? Or
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: there's a man will respond to a quiet like I
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: would say soft. No, there might be some barely passes,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: but I would say probably not right because even though
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: there is like pretty even there's like gender parody. Generally
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: some of the side characters who come and then get
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: murdered right away. If you include everybody you see on screen,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: there are probably more men. But as far as like
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: the core cast, it feels like there are. It's pretty
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: split down the middle. But anytime like characters have to
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: pair off together, it's always like a man paired with
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: a woman. There's there are no which is kind of
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: a bummer. Yeah, definitely no extended conversations between women. Yeah,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: like you said, it might just be like oh, two
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: line thing here and there. But again I didn't even
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: notice there were. I wrote down my favorite um exchange
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: between two women. This is uh ms Scarlett asking Mrs
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Peacock at dinner. I think this is in response to
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Professor Plum Mr Plum saying that he doesn't practice medicine anymore,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: and Miss Scarlett says, I think most men need a
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: little practice, don't you, Mrs Peacock. But of course that
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't even pass because she says men right in the
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: damn sentence. But yeah, I kind of stopped. I forgot
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: to keep paying attention after the inner scene of like
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: women talking to each other. But there are a few
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: like again to line exchanges between women, but they're always like, hey,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Mrs White, what does your husband do? Uh? That's like
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock asking her things like that. So basically I
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: know I would say no, and I guess let's just
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: jump on over to the nipple scale. So this is
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: our our nipple scale on a scale of one to
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: five nipples. How well do we zero? Zero, zero, sorry,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: zero to five. I've been on this show before the
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: zero to five. Based on how well we feel it
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: represents women, I'm going to give it. I think between
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: how often we see women be assaulted, and even if
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: the women push back against the man who is assaulting
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: her in that moment, the movie always frames it as
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: a visual joke, and just between everything we've talked about,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give it maybe a two. Because some
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: of the women, like women do often, like you said, Jamie,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: have agency. They have motivations for murdering each other and
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: also murdering men. They're doing stuff their active participants in
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: the story. I feel like of the discoveries that get
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: made or the clues that get found, and like the
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: characters piecing things together, I feel like it's mostly men
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: doing that, and it's honestly mostly Wadsworth, like Tim Curry
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: seems to be doing a lot of it. But even
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: like when they discover like the secret do okay, I
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: remember what's his name? Colonel Mustard discovers the one secret passageway?
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Do you remember if it's miss Scarlett that does the
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: other wonderful time? I took that as a note as
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: well that I forgot to REVERI right. Yeah, all of
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: the plan making after them as the murders are being committed,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: all of the plan making is initiated by male characters,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: and all of all of the major discoveries, unless there's
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: something We're my thing, are made by male characters. But
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: it's like Colonel Mustard at one point says Okay, this
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: is what we need to do, and then Wadsworth takes
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: over and it's like, okay, we're gonna do the short
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: stick thing and blah blah blah blah blah, Like women
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: don't really initiate the plan ever. Okay, in that case,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to drop it down to one and a
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: half nipples. Then it is a really fun movie that
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: I enjoy. But yeah, women aren't given enough to do.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: They're not given any sort of like skill because like
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: with the Colonel Mustard thing, being like I'm military, so
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: I have a good strategy, Like he's given a background
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: that enables him to like do stuff, whereas all the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: women have her husband's and that's how they are identified,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: except for Miss Scarlett, and even just ends up using
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: her sexuality to like try to seduce people sometimes, but
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: then she also gets assaulted. It's a mess. One and
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: a half nipples, uh, and I'll give I guess I'll
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: just divvy them up between Mrs Peacock, Miss Scarlett, and
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: Mrs White, but also a vet and also the cook. No,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: just kidding, gonna give all one and a half nipples
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: to the cook. She deserved far better than she got
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: before I give Well, I'm also going to give it
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: a one and a half. But I think Alfred Molena
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: could have played Tim Curry's part very well. He would
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: have really been If there is ever a Cluery boot,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: bring him in, he would kill it. And Alfred Willna
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: is never allowed to be identifiably British, so it would
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: be a great opportunity for him. True. I think alf
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Milena could have played every single party like this is
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: a movie made for him. It's like kind of disappointing
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: that he was not in it. But and I don't
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: mean every character would have been good for him. I'm
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: saying he should be cast in every single role all
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: uh nutty Professor Eddie Murphy. Yeah, yeah, like when Deep
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: Roy was every Opa loompa in the Yeah, that's what
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: I mean. And all Alfred Molina reboot. I swear to go,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: mark my words, one day Alfred Willna is going to
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: starve my rescpute in movie and then it's over for everybody. Um,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this movie one and a half as well.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: I think that the Who Done It genre has a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: lot of potential for women because you have to empower
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: all your characters on a fairly even keel. But I
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: don't think this movie does the best of um making
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: use of that freedom and necessity. UM. I think if
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: there had been a female writer involved or more women
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: involved in general. Um, that would probably not be the case,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: but I like, I mean, I just all the performances
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: from female actors in this movie are great. Um, I
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: I agree that the cook deserve better, the cop deserve better. Uh,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: it's a very I mean, it's a very white movie
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: and it's a very white genre. Um that is due
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: for you know, like some just different perspectives because it's like,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's ones I don't know about, but
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: like all the major who done it canon is straight
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: white guys. Yeah, listeners, if you have any suggestions for
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: ones that deviate from that mole, let us know. That
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: would be great. Yeah, I mean, and it's like and
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: I love Ryan Johnson, but including Ryan Johnson. Uh anyways,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, one point five. I'm going to give mine
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: to Mrs White because I like that she's a stone
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: cold killer. Yeah. Yeah, that's the episode gang. That's all, folks,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can follow us on social media
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram. I'm about to disable our Facebook
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: page because I we don't check it, so if you
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: want email us instead, if you want to send a
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: message on Facebook or something instead, we have an email address,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: So we always forget to give out. But it's the
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast at gmail dot com. It's infinitely more likely
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: that we would see that than anything on Facebook. Sorry,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: um so r I p Facebook in general? Uh but
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: um but yeah, contact us and then now is also
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: a great time to get on the Matreon wave if
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: you haven't. We've been welcoming a lot of new members
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: to the matrio on um but that's Patreon dot com
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: slash Bechtel Cast. There are I think over sixty episodes
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: at this point, um, just additional movies, a lot of
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: popular requests that haven't been on the main feed or
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: over there. And this month is gathering before a wedding month,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and we're we we did Bridesmaids and we're releasing our
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: Hangover episode soon. So yes, all that and more over
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: in the Matreon indeed. Ah, you can also get our
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: merch at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Oh here's another thing I would like to plug. Remember
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: when I talked about Sludge earlier, listen to my Sludge
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: podcasts were crying out loud. The season two is great,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for listening. Um. Yeah, it's a
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: focus on The first season is a focus on my
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: personal experience operating within the broken health care system in
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: the US, where I was diagnosed with sludge a k a.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: Gall stones and all the hoops I had to jumped
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: through to get any sort of treatment. Season two is
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: an exploration of other people's stories, with a particular focus
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: on the bias they have been on the receiving end
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: of when it comes to health care professionals being biased
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: towards various marginalized people, and how how certain patients have
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: had a more difficult time accessing health care because of
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: the patriarchal system that we live within. So check you
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: out and listen to my Year and Mensites as well.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: It's been out for a while, but hey, if you
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: didn't now, now now you could. It's not against the
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: law and you should give it a shot. Not like Mooderies,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: not like murder. Yeah, so, uh you know, it's great.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: I love it so much. Listen to my Year and Mensa,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: listen to Sludge and um thanks for tuning in. Take
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: care of yourselves, yeah, do what you can for people.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: Take care of you, your brain and your body, and
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: we love you, We love you. Bye bye,