Latest / Ask the Lawyer / 09/18/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Harvey Peyton

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09/18/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Harvey Peyton · Ask the Lawyer

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Speaker 3: O courts, oh.
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Speaker 4: Cre equal.
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Speaker 5: When nass come here in a capony, can rocks.
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Speaker 6: Well, you don't have to fight the law this morning.
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Speaker 6: You can put the law on your side in studio
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Speaker 6: with me this morning. Is is a Harvey Peyton from
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Speaker 6: the Patent Law Firm. Harvey is back in studio with
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Speaker 6: this this morning. Taking your phone calls threes are four three, four,
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Speaker 5: Harvey, good morning, how are you well? I'm quite I'm
1:12
Speaker 5: doing quite well this morning. Yesterday was I completed my
1:16
Speaker 5: seventy sixth trip around the Sun. Yesterday, Happy Birthday. Well
1:22
Speaker 5: it was a good day. I listened to the radio,
1:26
Speaker 5: and you know, this morning, the first thing I'd like
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Speaker 5: to do is just say great thanks to two really
1:32
Speaker 5: wonderful West Virginians. First of all, Hoppy Kerchiefal. I don't
1:36
Speaker 5: want to patronizing suck, but if anybody wants to read
1:40
Speaker 5: a really good commentary on the state of the assault
1:44
Speaker 5: on the First Amendment that we're doing right now, read
1:47
Speaker 5: copies column on what was it statewide Metro NEWSPV, metronews
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Speaker 5: dot com, YEW and then read the comments, which will
1:55
Speaker 5: be undoubtedly hateful and threatening by those who feel like
1:59
Speaker 5: they're hated by somebody else. And Brad Smith. I heard
2:04
Speaker 5: Brad Smith on the air. First of all, Brad Smith,
2:07
Speaker 5: for those who aren't aware, is the president of Marshall University.
2:11
Speaker 5: He's also an extremely wealthy person from his career in it.
2:17
Speaker 5: I don't really know what he did. He was the
2:18
Speaker 5: president of some oracle or a quick Hunt or something,
2:22
Speaker 5: but he's from Wayne County and I met him briefly
2:26
Speaker 5: when he got the job down there, and I've talked
2:29
Speaker 5: to him a couple times briefly since, but his presentation
2:32
Speaker 5: on air yesterday and the day before he and his
2:35
Speaker 5: wife gave Marshall University fifty million dollars. That's fifty within
2:39
Speaker 5: him incredible, a million dollars. That's a game changer as
2:43
Speaker 5: a part of his pursuit of a university that can
2:47
Speaker 5: graduate students with graduate degrees with no student debt. And
2:52
Speaker 5: the philosophy that he expressed on the air. It was
2:56
Speaker 5: on statewide and I don't know whether it's day will
3:00
Speaker 5: TJ is a Meadows or yeah. Ask him about his
3:03
Speaker 5: thoughts on you know, income, inequality and taxation, and it's like, oh,
3:07
Speaker 5: I'm a capitalist, but I also realize nobody gets here
3:10
Speaker 5: alone and it's my duty, it's all of our duties
3:13
Speaker 5: to help those who may be less fortunate. And he
3:15
Speaker 5: left with a Greek parable. You know, he the greatest
3:19
Speaker 5: society is judged by people who plant trees under whose
3:21
Speaker 5: shade they'll never sit. It was wonderful. He's a kind person.
3:25
Speaker 5: You know, people who have positions of responsibility, whether it's
3:29
Speaker 5: big money or political jobs or judges, you can hurt
3:35
Speaker 5: people without thinking about it. Unless you're careful in your
3:40
Speaker 5: dealings with others. You can be little people unintentionally have
3:44
Speaker 5: a big effect on him. I've seen judges do that.
3:46
Speaker 5: We had one here in Kanall County who was horrible
3:49
Speaker 5: to be little and experienced lawyers, and I always thought that,
3:52
Speaker 5: you know, you have any idea how much you can
3:54
Speaker 5: hurt a person. My experience was my wife and I
3:58
Speaker 5: were flying somewhere on Delta and we're up at Canaw
4:02
Speaker 5: Airport and there's President Smith sitting there. He's gonna leave
4:07
Speaker 5: on this. Well, you know, obviously, if you're gonna get
4:08
Speaker 5: fly Delta, you're gonna leave here and go to Atlanta
4:11
Speaker 5: on an early morning flight. And they called the flight
4:14
Speaker 5: when he first in light. I'm sure he had a
4:17
Speaker 5: premium ticket. Well, he handed the young lady's ticket. Now
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Speaker 5: your name's on the ticket and we're hind there and
4:23
Speaker 5: she says, oh, you've got a Marshall ring on. Did
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Speaker 5: you go to Marshall? She's talking to Brad Smith and
4:29
Speaker 5: he said, well, yes, I did. Did you go? She
4:30
Speaker 5: said yes. He said I really like it, and he
4:32
Speaker 5: said I really like it too, Thank you very much.
4:35
Speaker 5: It's really good to talk to somebody who is a
4:38
Speaker 5: friend of Marshall. He got on the plane so we
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Speaker 5: get off in Atlanta, and I said, Brendent Smith. He
4:43
Speaker 5: said no, she had no clue who I was. And
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Speaker 5: I wasn't going to say anything because he could have said, sure, well,
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Speaker 5: I'm the president of the university and unintentionally probably hurt
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Speaker 5: the young lady's feelings. He was just a kind of person.
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Speaker 5: He kept it to him, didn't bother him. The fact
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Speaker 5: that he may not be recognized as an very important
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Speaker 5: person on the plane is just another thing, and that
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Speaker 5: told tells me a lot about the guy.
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Speaker 6: That's a subtle thing. But actually I've read a little
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Speaker 6: bit of this before. Whatever the the whatever was going on,
5:13
Speaker 6: it has subconscious or that is a very real thing
5:15
Speaker 6: that in that situation, the power dynamic is, oh, well,
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Speaker 6: I'm the president of Marshall University. And suddenly, for no
5:21
Speaker 6: reason at all, you put the other person like they
5:24
Speaker 6: feel defensive, they feel bad for not recognizing your stuff.
5:27
Speaker 6: Like just by not saying anything, you're able to have
5:29
Speaker 6: a pleasant conversation and move on. That's really very insightful.
5:33
Speaker 5: On another vein, when I've graduated to law school, I
5:38
Speaker 5: got a job. Johnny Fisher Dean Fisher helped me get
5:42
Speaker 5: a job as a law clerk, which was a really
5:45
Speaker 5: plumb position, being a law clerk for a federal judge.
5:49
Speaker 5: Not a lot of at that time, back in nineteen
5:50
Speaker 5: seventy four, there were fewer federal judges than there are now.
5:53
Speaker 5: At a law clerk's jobs for you know, few and
5:56
Speaker 5: far between. It had some sort of distinction because it
5:58
Speaker 5: made you did well in school and you were help
6:00
Speaker 5: helping a judge. And you know, even at the district
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Speaker 5: court level, which is the lowest level of the federal judiciary,
6:07
Speaker 5: the trial court level, those are powerful positions. I mean,
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Speaker 5: you were appointed by the president, nominated by the President
6:12
Speaker 5: the United States, you're confirmed by the Senate. It's a
6:15
Speaker 5: job for life if you want it to be. And
6:19
Speaker 5: in your district you command tremendous respect. You've got a
6:22
Speaker 5: security detail, you've got a marshall, you've got a bailiff,
6:25
Speaker 5: you've got a clerk's office, You've got clerks. And I went.
6:29
Speaker 5: The judge was Robert E. Maxwell from Elkins. Judge Maxwell
6:32
Speaker 5: was young when he was appointed to the bench. The
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Speaker 5: story that I heard, actually Senator Randolph Tell I can
6:39
Speaker 5: tell you this story was true because I heard it
6:40
Speaker 5: from the horse's mouth that there was some objection in
6:44
Speaker 5: the Senate, maybe from Dick Russell and Georgia, that Judge
6:47
Speaker 5: Maxwell was too young to be a federal judge. And
6:52
Speaker 5: he told this with great gust of Jennings Randolph's great storytellers.
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Speaker 5: He called the Elkins time they had air service, Bob,
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Speaker 5: if you'd get over here. So Judge Maxwell, who was
7:05
Speaker 5: that time, wasn't a judge. He gets on a plane,
7:07
Speaker 5: flys to d C. H. Randall picks him up at
7:11
Speaker 5: National Airport and they drive over to the White House
7:14
Speaker 5: where he goes in to see his old buddy Lyndon
7:16
Speaker 5: who's President United States, and says, uh, Lindon, I've got
7:21
Speaker 5: a man I want you to meet. This is Bob Maxwell.
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Speaker 5: I want him to be a judge in Northern District
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Speaker 5: of West Virginia. And Dick Russell says he's too young.
7:28
Speaker 5: He said, well, Jennings, you tell Dick Russell. I'm going
7:33
Speaker 5: to appoint him and a little time will cure that
7:35
Speaker 5: he'll get older. And that was into that. So but
7:40
Speaker 5: he always said when he passed away, we had a
7:43
Speaker 5: funeral service to memorial services, and Elkins and all the
7:46
Speaker 5: former law clerks were there who remembered to a person.
7:51
Speaker 5: Judge Bixwell never introduced any of his staff as somebody
7:55
Speaker 5: who works for me at the court. I want you
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Speaker 5: to meet part. He works with me over in Elpins.
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Speaker 5: This is Helen. She works with me in the clerk's office.
8:05
Speaker 5: Never asserted the authority figure of being the boss. And
8:10
Speaker 5: little things like that make a difference. And I saw
8:12
Speaker 5: that in Brad Smith. We're lucky to have him. We're
8:14
Speaker 5: lucky to have Hobby. Now, having said that, wanted to
8:20
Speaker 5: move on if I could a legal issue that is local,
8:23
Speaker 5: it's perking up. It involves homicide. Homicide is the killing
8:31
Speaker 5: of one human being by another. Now, it can be justifiable,
8:35
Speaker 5: as in an act of self defense. It can be negligent,
8:40
Speaker 5: as in a traffic accident or an accidental shooting, which
8:46
Speaker 5: is still punishable as a crime. Justifiable homicide is not
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Speaker 5: or it can be manslaughter or murder. Murder, make no mistake,
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Speaker 5: is the most serious, profound crime that could be committed.
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Speaker 5: Homicide in general, God's most precious gift life is taken
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Speaker 5: from one person by another. How do you handle that
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Speaker 5: in a society? Well, in West Virginia, we probably need
9:11
Speaker 5: to rewrite our criminal code overall, as it relates to
9:15
Speaker 5: the homicide offensive murder. Last week there was an op
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Speaker 5: ed in the Charleston Desad about perhaps we need to
9:25
Speaker 5: address sentencing for first degree murder, prompted by the fact
9:29
Speaker 5: that we had two juveniles convicted of a serious murder.
9:34
Speaker 5: One was convicted of felony murder as a participant, the
9:38
Speaker 5: other pleaded guilty to the killing itself. Both were sentenced
9:43
Speaker 5: to life in prison, and in accordance with our law,
9:48
Speaker 5: it was mandatory that they be given a recommendation of mercy,
9:51
Speaker 5: which means possibility of parole in fifteen years. That is
9:56
Speaker 5: the sentence before nineteen ninety four. I mean, we abolished
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Speaker 5: the death penalty in West Virginia in nineteen sixty five.
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Speaker 5: And of interest, the murder rate today in West Virginia
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Speaker 5: is identical of what it was in nineteen sixty three
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Speaker 5: and sixty two and sixty four when we had the
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Speaker 5: death penalty. You've got to acknowledge a lot of times
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Speaker 5: it's just societal retribution and not prevention.
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Speaker 6: Yeah's never show us a detail.
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Speaker 5: Well, I read the op ed and it struck me wrong.
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Speaker 5: I mean, the call for a revision and sentencing on murder.
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Speaker 5: I always fear opens the door to those who are
10:37
Speaker 5: proponents of the death penalty, which we have not had
10:40
Speaker 5: since nineteen sixty five. Don't need unequally applied. It's arbitrary
10:45
Speaker 5: and capricious. We are one of the few countries in
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Speaker 5: the world where any states are even still permitted to
10:51
Speaker 5: have the death penalty. But I thought the overall implication
10:55
Speaker 5: in the op ed a bit was, well, fifteen years
10:58
Speaker 5: is not enough. Almost in applying that, you know that
11:04
Speaker 5: minimum means people are released. They're walking out of prison
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Speaker 5: after being convicted of first degree murder fifteen years after
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Speaker 5: the occurrence. And that's not practically true as a practical matter.
11:16
Speaker 5: I know from being involved in the criminal justice system
11:19
Speaker 5: on the defense side, and from having friends one of
11:23
Speaker 5: my dear friends, Kylie and Dunallett Brown, who's been on
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Speaker 5: the board of the pro Board two separate occasions, that
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Speaker 5: the average time for a person serving the sentence of
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Speaker 5: life with a mercy recommendation, it's about thirty years. Pro
11:41
Speaker 5: Board takes just as seriously taking a human life. They
11:44
Speaker 5: don't even consider them, I don't think seriously until they've
11:46
Speaker 5: been confined for about twenty years. Well, then on Monday,
11:49
Speaker 5: I think it was Monday. I heard Ben Silango, who's
11:52
Speaker 5: a commissioner on the county. He's a lawyer, a good guy,
11:55
Speaker 5: and he's on the county commission. He was on the
11:58
Speaker 5: air and he personalized the situation because his wife's brother
12:02
Speaker 5: was a victim of a murder. I'm quite familiar with
12:06
Speaker 5: when it happened, because it happened in Nitro. It happened
12:08
Speaker 5: in Danny Jones restaurant in the kitchen. What started his
12:14
Speaker 5: horse play progress to a man pulled out a knife
12:16
Speaker 5: and stabbed his wife's brother in the neck and killed
12:23
Speaker 5: him and was tried in Knaw County and convicted the
12:27
Speaker 5: first three murder. At the time he committed the act,
12:30
Speaker 5: the mandatory minimum for eligibility was ten years. Now he's
12:34
Speaker 5: still in prison. I'm going to say his name, because
12:39
Speaker 5: you know, it just glorifies the person who's the perpetrator.
12:42
Speaker 5: But I knew his name, and so I just ran
12:44
Speaker 5: him through the DC. And he's still in prison thirty
12:46
Speaker 5: three years later and has not set for another parole
12:49
Speaker 5: hearing until next year. But the perspective that Commister Selango
12:55
Speaker 5: put on it was the personal wise said, look, my family,
12:58
Speaker 5: my wife's family has been to these parole hearings eight
13:03
Speaker 5: times in the last twenty years, and it just rubs,
13:06
Speaker 5: it just brings it all to the service again. Now,
13:08
Speaker 5: you know, if we as a society, and of course
13:11
Speaker 5: it's not fair because you know, her brother's not here
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Speaker 5: and this person's still alive, well, that in a fact
13:16
Speaker 5: is just a fact. But if we as a society
13:20
Speaker 5: say that even those who commit the most heenous crime,
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Speaker 5: if a jury hears the evidence and says they should
13:27
Speaker 5: have a possibility at some time in their life of
13:29
Speaker 5: being free, that we have to accept that as lawyers,
13:32
Speaker 5: as a civilized society. Now that well, you know, that's
13:35
Speaker 5: really really a valid point, which I didn't get from
13:38
Speaker 5: the op ed that was in there before. So what
13:42
Speaker 5: would be the harm? I mean, if it was a
13:44
Speaker 5: practical matter. The pro board doesn't release almost anyone with
13:49
Speaker 5: a recommendation of mercy until they've served thirty or near
13:52
Speaker 5: thirty years. Why not set the minimum, Why not just
13:55
Speaker 5: change the sentence not less than thirty years more than life.
13:59
Speaker 5: There I get a determinate period of thirty years, they
14:03
Speaker 5: serve thirty years and go before the pro board, You're
14:05
Speaker 5: probably going to find more people released or be much.
14:07
Speaker 5: It seem to me less stress. The family knows that
14:11
Speaker 5: they have thirty years of peace before they even have
14:13
Speaker 5: to think about it. To me, that would seem to
14:17
Speaker 5: be a reasonable and logical way to approach it. Just
14:20
Speaker 5: look at the pro board records. I mean, they know
14:24
Speaker 5: you can look online and see who's up and who's denied,
14:27
Speaker 5: and just sort of try and pair it to the
14:30
Speaker 5: practicalities which are in fact the facts. This is what happens.
14:35
Speaker 5: And don't let this argument go to the legislature with
14:40
Speaker 5: folks thinking, well, these folks get out after fifteen years,
14:44
Speaker 5: so we need to do way way more has to
14:45
Speaker 5: bring back to death paly. Well, no, that's not practically
14:48
Speaker 5: the case. Let's think about the families of the victims
14:53
Speaker 5: and minimize the impact on them of a mercy recommendation,
14:57
Speaker 5: but not take away the jury who hears the evidence
15:00
Speaker 5: and they're us their option and juries know, it's not
15:07
Speaker 5: like a jury finds a person guilty of first degree murder,
15:10
Speaker 5: and which first agree murder is the deliberate and intentional
15:21
Speaker 5: and malicious, that is, with the dark and evil heart
15:25
Speaker 5: killing of another human being. It can be by arson, poison,
15:30
Speaker 5: lying in wait, or in the commission of a felony
15:32
Speaker 5: or any other killing with premeditation. Now, in our law,
15:38
Speaker 5: which is rooted in the common law, the jury's told
15:42
Speaker 5: the premeditation can be for an instant. A person can
15:45
Speaker 5: form that premeditated intent to kill when they walk across
15:48
Speaker 5: the room and stab somebody, is what happened in this case.
15:53
Speaker 5: Or they can do what this gentleman, a fellow, this
15:56
Speaker 5: creature did out in Utah. You can just plan and
15:58
Speaker 5: go intention kills. Somebody's obviously premeditated murder. It's really serious.
16:05
Speaker 5: But the jury hears that, and they hear all the
16:07
Speaker 5: facts and circumstances, and perhaps somewhere in there they're told,
16:12
Speaker 5: you know, here are the verdict possible verdicts. If the
16:16
Speaker 5: indictment is for murder, generally it can be voluntary manslaughter,
16:22
Speaker 5: second degree murder, or if you find premeditation, it could
16:25
Speaker 5: be first degree murder. Period. If that's the verdict, it's
16:29
Speaker 5: the penalty's life in prison without the possibility of parole,
16:33
Speaker 5: pop w pop without possibility of parole, or having heard
16:39
Speaker 5: all the evidence, you can make a recommendation on your
16:42
Speaker 5: verdict of mercy, which means that this person will be
16:45
Speaker 5: eligible for parole and release in fifteen years. Well, the
16:48
Speaker 5: jury hears that it's not like it's something that's done
16:51
Speaker 5: in the dark. That's their expression. It was raised to
16:55
Speaker 5: fifteen years after nineteen ninety four. I don't know why.
17:00
Speaker 5: I don't know, particul don't remember what the debate was
17:02
Speaker 5: and the legislature at that time. But you know, it
17:06
Speaker 5: would I think, be unfair to our society to let
17:09
Speaker 5: that debate go to the legislature with the idea thought
17:12
Speaker 5: that people are walking out of prison in fifteen years
17:14
Speaker 5: after committing a premeditated, malicious, intentional killing of a human being.
17:19
Speaker 5: It's the worst thing you can do. But if it's
17:22
Speaker 5: an expression of our society that there are some cases
17:26
Speaker 5: in which the evidence and circumstances indicate that that person,
17:30
Speaker 5: regardless of the horror described they committed, should have some hope,
17:34
Speaker 5: then let's do it in a way that preserves that
17:38
Speaker 5: as it's practically done now, but eliminates that burden on
17:43
Speaker 5: the families of the victim to make these constant appearances
17:47
Speaker 5: in this intervening period of time. Just set it's what
17:49
Speaker 5: it practically is. I mean what happens in other states.
17:52
Speaker 5: I mean, a determinate sentence of not less than thirty
17:55
Speaker 5: years and more than life. And that's I think that's
17:59
Speaker 5: the law in probably a dozen states.
18:02
Speaker 6: It seems like abundant common sense.
18:04
Speaker 5: Well it does.
18:04
Speaker 6: It makes me concern for it, to be honest with you, Well,
18:06
Speaker 6: it might be concerned.
18:07
Speaker 5: Is you take that idea that people are walking free
18:10
Speaker 5: and this is you know, you can see what's happened
18:12
Speaker 5: over the last few days. Things just get blown up
18:14
Speaker 5: into this adversary partisan attitude and next thing, well, let's
18:20
Speaker 5: just juice them, let's just we have let's just reintroduce
18:23
Speaker 5: the death penalty, which is you know, I vehemently opposed
18:28
Speaker 5: the death penalty. I think it's arbitrary and capricious and
18:33
Speaker 5: it's not something society should be involved in. And I
18:36
Speaker 5: can tell you that the I've had a couple of
18:39
Speaker 5: clients convicted of first degree murder with their recommendation, and
18:43
Speaker 5: I think either one of them would gladly submit themselves
18:47
Speaker 5: to the death penalty instead of looking walking into Mount
18:53
Speaker 5: Olive and knowing I'm never going to see the light
18:56
Speaker 5: of day.
18:57
Speaker 6: Or oh, we have called good think we have a
18:58
Speaker 6: phone calls. I called in the morning. Caller, you're on
19:00
Speaker 6: the air, what's your first name.
19:02
Speaker 3: Hey Jerry here, Hey Jerry, what's going on? Harvey? I
19:05
Speaker 3: hate to keep bringing this same thing up. You know
19:08
Speaker 3: where I stand on the death penalty?
19:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't really. I mean I guess your favorite.
19:13
Speaker 3: Or absolutely okay. And and the prime example is Harold
19:21
Speaker 3: Douglas gannot he got life without mercy and due to
19:27
Speaker 3: a technicality in the law, he was turned loose after
19:32
Speaker 3: killing a woman in Winfield, and within a year he
19:36
Speaker 3: killed another woman. Now, if the man was dead, that
19:41
Speaker 3: other woman would still be alive today.
19:44
Speaker 5: Well, but Jerry, he wouldn't have been dead because his
19:46
Speaker 5: conviction of killing the nurse in her home and Winfield
19:49
Speaker 5: was set aside, you know, because it was not lawfully obtained.
19:52
Speaker 5: You understand that, right, well, And Hobby's falling saw him.
19:56
Speaker 5: I saw him walking in the mall. And it was
19:58
Speaker 5: because Hobby was the proce he was stunned to see
20:01
Speaker 5: who was walking free. He shouldn't have been. But his
20:03
Speaker 5: prosecution should have been done properly. Now there would have problem.
20:07
Speaker 3: There's the problem.
20:09
Speaker 5: Well, it's the problem is the law requires due process
20:12
Speaker 5: for everybody.
20:14
Speaker 3: Okay, So he could go out and kill one hundred people.
20:17
Speaker 5: No, he couldn't.
20:18
Speaker 3: That's foolish that admit to killing one hundred people. They
20:22
Speaker 3: have evidence against him for killing one hundred people. It's
20:27
Speaker 3: it's a closed case. But due to a little technicality
20:31
Speaker 3: of the law, even though we know he did it,
20:33
Speaker 3: he admitted he did it, we have to turn the
20:36
Speaker 3: guy loose.
20:37
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, Jerry, nobody is released on a
20:39
Speaker 5: little technical Do you tell me since you know so
20:42
Speaker 5: much about that case in Winfield where a person who
20:46
Speaker 5: I knew was the victim and it occurred in a
20:49
Speaker 5: house that I was familiar with, and I know something,
20:53
Speaker 5: why don't you tell me because you know so much
20:55
Speaker 5: about it? What was the little technicality? Can you tell me?
21:00
Speaker 3: Well?
21:00
Speaker 5: Do you know? Do you know?
21:03
Speaker 3: Are you gonna let me talk? It's been twenty years?
21:06
Speaker 5: Well, I just once you asked the question, what was
21:07
Speaker 5: the little technicality? Do you know?
21:10
Speaker 3: Should not have asked him questions about that murder when
21:15
Speaker 3: they had arrested him on something else?
21:22
Speaker 5: What was it? A are you talking about sixth Amendment violation?
21:25
Speaker 3: Yes, something like that.
21:27
Speaker 5: Well was it or wasn't it? Was he waiting to
21:31
Speaker 5: be retried?
21:33
Speaker 3: The point of it is he admitted to murdering the
21:35
Speaker 3: woman they had the evidence and then they had to
21:38
Speaker 3: turn him loose because of that law.
21:42
Speaker 5: Well, the fourth the fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment. Well,
21:47
Speaker 5: William Holly Griffith is in prison. I think he Well,
21:51
Speaker 5: he was in prison. Kai Auxier was in prison. Ronald
21:55
Speaker 5: Williams is still up there in prison serving life. Where's
21:58
Speaker 5: Harold Gono now he's in prison now. To say that
22:00
Speaker 5: the other woman would be alive but for some quirk
22:04
Speaker 5: in the law, it just has no validity. I I
22:07
Speaker 5: just have no validity period to me now and the
22:10
Speaker 5: fact and to say that, well, he would have been dead,
22:14
Speaker 5: of course that's not true. He would have still been
22:16
Speaker 5: in prison had he had the prosecution been done correctly
22:18
Speaker 5: the first time, he would have been in prison for
22:21
Speaker 5: the rest of his life. Which still would you know,
22:25
Speaker 5: what's the difference between being locked up in the bowels
22:29
Speaker 5: of Mount Olive never being eligible parole. They're not going
22:32
Speaker 5: to go out and kill anybody either. They're sitting there
22:34
Speaker 5: going institutionally insane, just.
22:37
Speaker 3: Like he was. He was told he would never be
22:44
Speaker 3: allowed to leave that prison, and within a couple of
22:47
Speaker 3: years he was. And that woman, the second woman, is
22:51
Speaker 3: dead because of that. That's not right.
22:55
Speaker 5: Well, do it correctly, do it correctly in accordance with
22:59
Speaker 5: the Constitution. I suppose you would, would you a spouse
23:02
Speaker 5: just taking this guy in Utah out and shooting him tomorrow? Absolutely, Well,
23:08
Speaker 5: that just shows that you don't know a hell of
23:10
Speaker 5: a lot about that. You think you know about the
23:12
Speaker 5: cost us in the United States, or about the rights
23:14
Speaker 5: of people in the United States, or the desperate necessity
23:17
Speaker 5: to protect even the least of us from the vengeance
23:22
Speaker 5: of some of us. I mean, the man has a
23:26
Speaker 5: right to do process. He has an absolute right to
23:30
Speaker 5: do process. And for you to say just take him
23:32
Speaker 5: out and shoot him tomorrow without a trial, which is
23:36
Speaker 5: what I have actually heard some people in our government say,
23:40
Speaker 5: is offensive to me. Now, I don't want to get
23:43
Speaker 5: crossways with you. They're a pretty good guy, but I
23:46
Speaker 5: don't you know, I'm opposed to the death penalty because
23:49
Speaker 5: I think it's arbitrary, it's capricious, It affects poor people
23:53
Speaker 5: way more than it does people have affluence. There are
23:58
Speaker 5: there are applications of the exclusionary rule and the Fifth
24:04
Speaker 5: Amendment and the Miranda ruling that I don't necessarily agree with,
24:07
Speaker 5: but it is the law.
24:09
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, well, if.
24:11
Speaker 5: You disregard the law because you feel vengeful, then we're
24:13
Speaker 5: in big trouble.
24:15
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, when a person admits to it and
24:18
Speaker 3: you have the absolute, one hundred percent proof of it,
24:22
Speaker 3: then you should throw out the rest of the law book.
24:26
Speaker 3: It's a closed case.
24:28
Speaker 5: Thank your hey, take care man, appreciate Erry. Let's not
24:31
Speaker 5: a close case. You don't know what motive is. You
24:34
Speaker 5: don't know what the person's state of mind is. Look
24:38
Speaker 5: at John Hinckley Jr. A noo question. He intended to
24:41
Speaker 5: kill Ronald Reagan. Now in today's world, we would have
24:46
Speaker 5: some goofy idea that John Hinckley killed Ronald Reagan because
24:53
Speaker 5: he admitted he was obsessed with Jodie. Foster said, well,
24:56
Speaker 5: you know, because he was obsessed with a LGBTQ.
25:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, a prominent democrat.
25:02
Speaker 5: So it must be right. She's a prominent democrat and
25:04
Speaker 5: she is a lesbian, right, So that's why the guy
25:09
Speaker 5: if you I don't know what's going on out there,
25:11
Speaker 5: and I didn't even know who Charles Kirk was.
25:14
Speaker 6: Truth, I don't know if anybody over fifty dow.
25:18
Speaker 5: I had to look at myself and I'm not going
25:20
Speaker 5: to try and find out, because it just looks to
25:22
Speaker 5: me like it's let's take a little snippet from this
25:24
Speaker 5: one commedy he made play it that makes him look
25:27
Speaker 5: like Adolf Hitler's handmaid. Let's take this other clipping, so well,
25:32
Speaker 5: he sound like pretty reasonable guy. So everybody can make
25:35
Speaker 5: their own judgment about Charlie Kirk. But you know what's
25:41
Speaker 5: it seems like he was mad at the guy because
25:45
Speaker 5: he hurt his girlfriend's feelings. Well, I mean, and there's
25:50
Speaker 5: no evidence that I've seen or even a hint that
25:54
Speaker 5: these people are loaners. Ye know. I've got a dear friend,
25:57
Speaker 5: like I mentioned, Kyleen doesn't that Brown Pottingham County. She's
26:03
Speaker 5: was a magistrate for several terms. She was on the proboard.
26:05
Speaker 5: I think she's back on there. We had a terrible
26:08
Speaker 5: case down in Winnfield where this fella he was just
26:10
Speaker 5: obviously mentally ill. He lived in a housing project down
26:13
Speaker 5: across from an Exxon station at the upper end of town.
26:17
Speaker 5: He walked through town to a gun store, bought a
26:21
Speaker 5: gun illegally. I mean, he marked that he was suffering
26:24
Speaker 5: from mental illness on the form and then when the
26:27
Speaker 5: clerk questioned him and so I can't sell you the gun.
26:29
Speaker 5: They marked it out and put no. Well obviously that
26:32
Speaker 5: store's out of business. He took the gun back, sat
26:35
Speaker 5: down on the curb, walked across the street into a
26:38
Speaker 5: gas station and just shot the clerk. Didn't know him,
26:40
Speaker 5: He just and the other clerk was standing there and
26:43
Speaker 5: he just put the gun down and waiting for the
26:44
Speaker 5: police to come because some voice told him to kill somebody. Well,
26:50
Speaker 5: I don't know, is that what happened here? Is that
26:52
Speaker 5: what happened in you? I don't know. We'll find out.
26:55
Speaker 5: But Kyleen and I were talking about that, and see
26:57
Speaker 5: she concluded because she had away with words. You know, Harvey,
26:59
Speaker 5: you're not any safer on any given day than the
27:01
Speaker 5: craziest person you walk by. And that's just the truth there.
27:05
Speaker 5: You take these loaners, you can go back. Charles Guitou
27:10
Speaker 5: was a loaner, a crazy guy who wanted the job from.
27:12
Speaker 5: James Garfield was all gosh. The guy that shot and
27:16
Speaker 5: killed McKinley was a loaner, anarchist, a loaner loser. Lee
27:21
Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald murdered Jack Kennedy. This little dishwarsher Palestinian guy
27:26
Speaker 5: in a hotel in Los Angeles killed Robert Kennedy Jr.
27:29
Speaker 5: Now James Earl Ray was probably a hired assassin at
27:32
Speaker 5: the at the bottom of a pyramid of racist hate.
27:38
Speaker 5: He got the money somewhere and he got out of
27:40
Speaker 5: the country somehow. He had her to plead guilty in
27:44
Speaker 5: so there was never a trial. But then you take
27:45
Speaker 5: a look at any of these people that saw the
27:48
Speaker 5: guy shot Gabby Gifford's loaner. This guy apparently a loaner.
27:53
Speaker 5: The loaner indoctrinated the shots, took a hammer to Papa
27:58
Speaker 5: LUSI I mean they us fit a pattern. And to
28:02
Speaker 5: say that any of these left or right were motivated
28:09
Speaker 5: by a particular group or ideology, I mean, I just
28:14
Speaker 5: we'll see. Because the guy is going to be tried,
28:16
Speaker 5: I presume unless he enters ampleaded guilty, maybe in exchange
28:19
Speaker 5: for a life sentence as opposed to the death penalty,
28:23
Speaker 5: they won't make that.
28:24
Speaker 6: And also, can't crazy people just fixate on things? I
28:26
Speaker 6: mean Charles Manson fixated on Helter Skelter. I mean the
28:28
Speaker 6: Beatles weren't trying to tell the Charles Manson to kill people.
28:31
Speaker 6: He got fixated on the song.
28:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean if you're familiar with with just the
28:37
Speaker 5: general criminal justices, I mean realize people realize loners just
28:42
Speaker 5: when they fit a pattern. Now another pattern. We saw
28:48
Speaker 5: what happened up in York, Pennsylvania yesterday. Three policemen killed
28:51
Speaker 5: doing what in trying to enforce a warrant in a
28:56
Speaker 5: domestic violence situation. That is the most dangerous work the
29:00
Speaker 5: police officer can do. Right, We had an offer a
29:03
Speaker 5: friend of mine, Jimmy Brammer, I would school with it.
29:06
Speaker 5: Killed up in Preston County on a domestic got hit
29:10
Speaker 5: in the bathroom and shotting down the hall. So let's
29:14
Speaker 5: take a break. Let's do our break back. We'll come
29:15
Speaker 5: back out fresher topics.
29:17
Speaker 6: We'll see what comes up and you can still get
29:19
Speaker 6: in if you'd like two threes or four three, four
29:20
Speaker 6: five fifty to fifty. Well, have a couple minutes when
29:22
Speaker 6: we come back. Threes are four three, four five fifty fifty.
29:24
Speaker 6: You can text threes are four non three five five
29:26
Speaker 6: zeros or eight. Well back after this you're listening to
29:28
Speaker 6: as the lawyer with Harvey Payton from the Fat Law
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30:44
Speaker 6: Just got about five minutes left in the program. You're
30:46
Speaker 6: welcome to give us a call this morning. We'll try
30:47
Speaker 6: to squeeze you in here at three zero four three
30:49
Speaker 6: four five fifty eight fifty eight had a caller while
30:51
Speaker 6: we were going to break but uh, I believe they're
30:53
Speaker 6: going to call mister Peyton at his office. That number
30:56
Speaker 6: is three zero, four seven five five fifty five fifty
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Speaker 6: six threes or A four seven five five fifty five
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Speaker 6: fifi seventy five five fifty five fifty six. Payton Lawfirm
31:02
Speaker 6: dot com.
31:03
Speaker 5: Yes, paid Lawfirm dot com where we can start by
31:05
Speaker 5: our office. We're a dedicated West Virginia law firm. We've
31:11
Speaker 5: been here. I've been practicing law well. As of this
31:15
Speaker 5: coming May, it'll be fifty two years. And Tom's been
31:19
Speaker 5: at it now, gosh, twenty five years. So we've been
31:22
Speaker 5: a lot of experience and a lot of time spent
31:25
Speaker 5: in Kanaw County, Putnam County, southeastern Ohio. We're not what
31:30
Speaker 5: we call jacks of all trade. We're lawyers who dedicate
31:35
Speaker 5: most of our time to help people who have suffered
31:37
Speaker 5: losses such as injuries and accidents, or a dispute with
31:41
Speaker 5: insurance carriers, financial disputes, people generally who are on the
31:46
Speaker 5: receiving end of what they consider to be unfair or
31:50
Speaker 5: inequitable conduct. That's our primary what we do mostly because
31:55
Speaker 5: it's time consuming and it requires a lot of expertise.
31:57
Speaker 5: But we do I do some other things that people need,
32:03
Speaker 5: little estate planning. If a businessman wants to talk to
32:06
Speaker 5: me about an issue or a problem or an issue
32:10
Speaker 5: title with a lot of property, I'm still you know,
32:13
Speaker 5: I'm qualified to do that because you know, that's what
32:15
Speaker 5: we learned in law school fifty years ago. Doesn't detract
32:19
Speaker 5: from our excellent ability to represent folks in disputes for
32:23
Speaker 5: involving accidents, injuries, death and other serious loss. So if
32:28
Speaker 5: you're in that situation and you don't feel like dealing
32:31
Speaker 5: with a megafirm or a big advertiser, you'd like to
32:35
Speaker 5: get closer to the ground level where people operate, just
32:38
Speaker 5: give us a call or go online to Payton Lawfirm
32:41
Speaker 5: dot com or stopped by the office uh A twenty
32:45
Speaker 5: eight oh one First Avenue in Nitro. If I'm there
32:47
Speaker 5: or Tom's there, we'll certainly be glad to talk to you.
32:50
Speaker 5: If we can't work you in, we'll set an appointment.
32:52
Speaker 5: We do it all the time, and without a whole
32:56
Speaker 5: lot of lack of success. Nobody wins every case. Anybody
33:00
Speaker 5: that says they've won every case as a lawyer hasn't
33:03
Speaker 5: had very many cases. They've maybe gotten lucky on one
33:05
Speaker 5: and then quit. Yeah, I don't want to say that
33:07
Speaker 5: they got their one and then quit. That's right, Well,
33:09
Speaker 5: that happens. If it's the right one, you can do it.
33:12
Speaker 5: Rate well, well, what happens if you lose the first.
33:18
Speaker 6: Fifty then right?
33:19
Speaker 5: Well, well, you know, I'll have to say that this
33:22
Speaker 5: part of West Virginia has been really good to us.
33:25
Speaker 5: It's been good to me. I mean, the pup the
33:28
Speaker 5: people in the Saint Albans Nitro Dunbar Cross Lanes area
33:32
Speaker 5: in Kanawa County. Even here in the city of Charleston
33:35
Speaker 5: had some class frow up in the eastern part of
33:37
Speaker 5: the county, which is where a lot of my family's
33:39
Speaker 5: from coal miners, uh and particularly Patinham and Mason County.
33:42
Speaker 5: We you know, get along intimately with people in the
33:47
Speaker 5: courthouse our way around. So I sort of like to
33:52
Speaker 5: think of ourselves as you know, if you've got an
33:55
Speaker 5: issue in you're in Putnam County, we should be your
33:57
Speaker 5: first call. If you if you know, if you think,
33:59
Speaker 5: well i'd like to have something bigger and flashier, well
34:02
Speaker 5: you can do that. I can't tell you who to hire.
34:05
Speaker 5: Nobody should be able to do that. I did hear
34:07
Speaker 5: a commercial this morning from one of the big big dogs,
34:13
Speaker 5: and I thought it was pretty good commercial. It's warning
34:15
Speaker 5: people about runners who come and chase you down and
34:18
Speaker 5: make contact with you after an accident, unsolicited to try
34:21
Speaker 5: and get your business and shuffle you into some law office.
34:25
Speaker 5: That is unethical, it's improper. It shouldn't happen. And if
34:28
Speaker 5: it does happen, you ought to complain to the state
34:30
Speaker 5: bar about it. You ought to call us Peyton Law
34:35
Speaker 5: Firm to straighten it out, because we deal with those
34:37
Speaker 5: sorts of shenanigans all the time. The ambulance chaser, yes,
34:40
Speaker 5: it is, indeed, and it's a few of those bumbs,
34:44
Speaker 5: which is what the lawyer on the radio is morning.
34:47
Speaker 5: Call them and I agree, bumbs who chase people around
34:50
Speaker 5: a lot of times. They'll sign these cases up. Don't
34:53
Speaker 5: know what they're doing. They can't get business because of
34:56
Speaker 5: good results. They chase around. And if that happens to you,
34:59
Speaker 5: call us and then we'll call the state law the
35:02
Speaker 5: Pathon Law Firm dot com and will somebody will be
35:05
Speaker 5: here next week either me age seventy six, age forty
35:09
Speaker 5: nine right.
35:10
Speaker 6: You can put the power of Paton on your side
35:12
Speaker 6: this morning with any of those Shenanigans or anything else.
35:14
Speaker 6: You want a local law firm to represent you, and
35:16
Speaker 6: the Pathon Law Firm can help with that. Three zero
35:18
Speaker 6: four seven five five fifty five fifty six three zero
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Speaker 6: four seven five five fifty five to fifty six. But
35:22
Speaker 6: the decades of local experience on your side, that's going
35:26
Speaker 6: to do it for us today. You can tune in
35:28
Speaker 6: to ask the law your next week at eight twenty
35:29
Speaker 6: right here on five ADWCHSDA Ballan's up next, followed about
35:32
Speaker 6: talk line. I'll be back this afternoon at three oh
35:34
Speaker 6: six on hotline with a weekly Have a great day everyone.
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