Latest / The Hannah Hammond Show / I Was Homeless And Addicted Before This | John Fernando

Transcript

I Was Homeless And Addicted Before This | John Fernando · The Hannah Hammond Show

• 0:00
  If I was to investing $1,000,000 I would have $1,000,000 back, a
• 0:03
  double my investment in 10. Months.
• 0:05
  If you had to name one of your biggest regrets, what would it
• 0:08
  be? Going into partnerships with my
• 0:10
  close friends. And oil.
• 0:11
  What's the chance of a deal going bad and you lose money?
• 0:14
  A lot of bad deals. I always say you got to invest
• 0:17
  in the person, not the deal. Everybody that I do business
• 0:19
  with are kind people. They always deliver on their
• 0:22
  word and their name means as much to them as mine does.
• 0:24
  We've had a few, had one last week that called me up.
• 0:27
  He was arrogant. I was like, you know what, I
• 0:30
  don't really care how much money you get.
• 0:31
  I'm not going to do any business with you, so don't call me
• 0:33
  anymore. That's it.
• 0:34
  Did you want to die? My son coming into the world
• 0:36
  pretty much saved me cry. He was like, where'd you go,
• 0:40
  Dad? You know what was so important
• 0:42
  that you left me for the first time?
• 0:44
  I'm crying. You told me that you made four
• 0:48
  phone calls and raised a billion dollars.
• 0:51
  So how the hell did you do that? Welcome back to the Hannah
• 0:55
  Hammond show. I'm here today with my friend
• 0:57
  John Fernando, who you were just amazing.
• 1:00
  And I'm so excited to hear your journey today and learn about
• 1:05
  oil and gas and minerals and premium insurance finance and a
• 1:08
  lot of the things that I just don't know a ton about.
• 1:10
  And I met you through a real estate community that we're a
• 1:13
  part of. So it's a little bit of a
• 1:14
  different conversation, but what you've done and you've raised
• 1:17
  over a billion dollars. I remember when I met you,
• 1:19
  actually, you were like, Oh yeah, I raised a billion dollars
• 1:21
  from like 4 phone calls. I'm like who the hell is this?
• 1:25
  How do I raise 4A billion dollars from 4 phone calls?
• 1:28
  It's so difficult. So anyway, you're just such an
• 1:30
  awesome person and I can't wait to to hear your journey and
• 1:34
  learn a lot of new things today too.
• 1:35
  So welcome to the show. Absolutely.
• 1:37
  Thank you for having me. I'm so blessing to come on here
• 1:39
  with you. Thank you.
• 1:40
  And so you're the founder of multiple companies, serial
• 1:44
  entrepreneur, you and an industries that don't pop up,
• 1:48
  like they didn't pop up when I Googled at 13 how to get rich.
• 1:51
  You know, it wasn't oil and gas and minerals and royalties and
• 1:54
  premium insurance finance. It was by real estate, right?
• 1:57
  And so and be an entrepreneur. So I'm super fascinated to hear
• 2:00
  that. But you have three different
• 2:01
  companies. Primarily right now you have
• 2:03
  grasslands, which is your oil and gas.
• 2:07
  It's called a brokerage, a land brokerage company.
• 2:10
  Thank you. So like a land man.
• 2:11
  OK, so grasslands. You've got Firethorn.
• 2:14
  Firethorn Holdings, which is a mineral acquisition company.
• 2:18
  OK. Mineral acquisitions and then
• 2:20
  you have a Freedom premium finance.
• 2:23
  Yes, that is a premium finance company.
• 2:25
  So if you had $1,000,000 insurance that was due upfront,
• 2:30
  then we would pay 80% of it and then you would pay 20 and then
• 2:33
  they'd make 10 payments is through the year.
• 2:36
  And that's how that one works. And we can fund it in seven
• 2:38
  days. Incredible.
• 2:40
  And so we're going to get into all that and obviously you're
• 2:43
  insanely successful, your man behind the curtain.
• 2:47
  You're not some like big influence or anything like that.
• 2:49
  You're building wealth in a tremendous way in these areas
• 2:54
  that not everybody knows about at all, including myself.
• 2:57
  And I like study and research everything.
• 2:58
  I feel like, and I don't know much about any of these.
• 3:01
  But who were you before the man that you are today?
• 3:05
  Oh, that wasn't wasn't any good. I was in my 20s.
• 3:10
  I struggled with drugs and alcohol to the point when I was
• 3:13
  29, I was what I call couch surfing homeless, which is
• 3:18
  you're kind of living from couch to couch.
• 3:20
  I was divorced. I was addicted to Oxycontin.
• 3:24
  I had a lot of father wounds throughout my life.
• 3:28
  It was what was. Your father like.
• 3:30
  My father was performance driven and so he was very demanding and
• 3:36
  he was very physical. And then he also he, we have a
• 3:41
  great, great relationship now. So if he sees this, I mean, but
• 3:44
  he just told me that I was not very smart all the time.
• 3:47
  I was an idiot and I believed it.
• 3:49
  And so it was really hard for me to do to be in school because I
• 3:53
  just didn't think I could pass the tests.
• 3:55
  And and so it, it all led to AI went to a rehab on 9/9 of O9 and
• 4:01
  they taught me leadership. And they were, it was extremely
• 4:05
  hard. One of my punishments when I was
• 4:07
  on discipline was I had to cut A1 acre field with a pair of
• 4:11
  scissors and a ruler. And they taught me delayed
• 4:15
  obediences, disobedience and really went over a lot of the
• 4:19
  lessons that the lessons that I learned there with people.
• 4:23
  And there were 90 people in a 5000 square foot house.
• 4:26
  I mean. This was in rehab.
• 4:27
  This was in rehab, so I went to a fancy rehab first and then I
• 4:31
  went to this rehab, which was kind of in a not so good play in
• 4:35
  by Cowtown in, in Fort Worth. And it was free to go there.
• 4:40
  I was there for 180 days and I'm, I became a Christian
• 4:45
  through that process. And but they taught me a lot of
• 4:48
  things that eventually the teachings that they taught me
• 4:53
  maybe leaner. Wow.
• 4:56
  Yeah. And you know, I always talk
• 4:57
  about trauma and how so many of the most successful people have
• 5:02
  so much trauma in their life. And this doesn't necessarily
• 5:05
  need to be big T trauma, which is like being beaten or homeless
• 5:10
  or starved or like severe, severe trauma.
• 5:12
  It could be as simple as Doctor Gabramante.
• 5:15
  Did you know who that is? No, I do not.
• 5:17
  So Doctor Gabramante was a huge part of my healing journey.
• 5:21
  And he's a famous Hungarian trauma therapist, a
• 5:25
  psychiatrist, something like that.
• 5:27
  And he, I went to one of his workshops, this was a few years
• 5:30
  ago. And he said a few things that
• 5:32
  stuck with me so profoundly and really helped transform the way
• 5:36
  that I saw my father and my mother and my family and myself
• 5:40
  and all these things. But he said so many of us trauma
• 5:42
  compare like, oh, I don't have trauma, right.
• 5:44
  A lot everyone said a lot of people say I don't have trauma.
• 5:47
  But he said, well, most, most people actually do.
• 5:49
  A lot of people really do. Some people don't, and that's
• 5:52
  real, but a lot of people do. And he said the primary wound in
• 5:56
  all people who have trauma is not the big trauma that happened
• 5:59
  down the path. It's the the, the primary wound
• 6:04
  that feels the same in all of us is not feeling either seen,
• 6:08
  heard or protected by one or both of our parents in our
• 6:13
  childhood. And that wound usually occurs by
• 6:15
  the time we're three or four years old.
• 6:17
  Oh, yeah. And that's what is the the pain
• 6:21
  that then opens up the door to more trauma.
• 6:24
  Whether you know, whether your parents or someone else abused
• 6:27
  you or you didn't have resources, or you were bullied
• 6:30
  or you were or whatever that is, the primary wound is still the
• 6:34
  same. Because if they saw you, if they
• 6:36
  heard you and if they made you feel safe, that wouldn't have
• 6:39
  happened, right? But but we also have this
• 6:42
  attachment to our parents because we love them.
• 6:44
  We love them. They did the best they could in
• 6:46
  most cases. In most cases, they didn't
• 6:48
  intentionally try to destroy our lives, right?
• 6:52
  And so a lot of us just shoved that down, down and toughen up
• 6:55
  and be like, you know, I don't have any trauma.
• 6:58
  My parents love me. I love my parents.
• 6:59
  And they just kind of let that fester into this soul tumor.
• 7:04
  And then they funnel all of that energy into drugs or success or,
• 7:12
  or addictions or something. And then they just ignore it.
• 7:16
  And then over over time, that soul tumor grows and grows and
• 7:19
  grows. And then they feel they, they
• 7:21
  wake up and they wonder why they never feel happy and they never
• 7:23
  feel successful. And they keep having failing
• 7:24
  relationships or they lose everything that they've built,
• 7:27
  or they just are, you know, workaholic and they have all
• 7:29
  this money, but they're sick and miserable inside.
• 7:32
  And so that's why it helped me so much to be able to identify
• 7:36
  like, OK, that's the primary route.
• 7:37
  And then how do I get through this route?
• 7:39
  But once you get through that, looking back, you realize it was
• 7:42
  your biggest blessing, right? And so, I mean, I want to, I
• 7:46
  want to really dive into like what your childhood was like,
• 7:50
  because I'm always fascinated by it.
• 7:51
  And I know now I, I was like a victim by it for so long as
• 7:55
  like, I hate my, you know, I hate my dad.
• 7:56
  He's apos and my parents like whatever, right?
• 8:00
  Just complaining and victimized by it and kind of separated
• 8:03
  myself from the family for a long time.
• 8:05
  And then now looking back, I'm like, no, that was the greatest
• 8:08
  blessing. And I am who I am today because
• 8:10
  of that. And it made me strong and it
• 8:13
  made me grateful and it made me appreciate now connection and
• 8:16
  love and like having empathy to actually see people and hear
• 8:20
  people and make people feel safe and all that.
• 8:22
  What age do you remember feeling like I'm not enough or I'm not
• 8:27
  worthy? And like, how did you channel
• 8:28
  that energy at that time? Well, there's many times that I
• 8:32
  felt like I wasn't enough. So you know, and just a touch on
• 8:36
  what you just said. I've never met a drug addict
• 8:39
  that didn't have a father wound period.
• 8:41
  And I've I've worked with thousands of them.
• 8:45
  But my dad and I, it was completely performance and in
• 8:50
  like you said, that's a it is a gift, but but it's hard to work
• 8:53
  through that because when you think when your hero is your dad
• 8:57
  and you don't perform athletically, that's the most
• 9:02
  crushing thing ever to you. So if you have that mindset
• 9:06
  built inside you, and it's not even fair for a normal person,
• 9:09
  because when they enter business, if they don't get it
• 9:11
  done, they're just normal. So they handle it.
• 9:13
  But when you're sitting there thinking, if I don't get this
• 9:16
  done, somebody's not going to love me.
• 9:18
  Well, that's a different mindset.
• 9:19
  So that person will kill to win. So their competitiveness is
• 9:23
  huge. But when the rubber met the
• 9:25
  road, I was in 6th grade and I was my dad was my golf coach and
• 9:30
  I had 101 degree fever. But he wanted me to play that
• 9:33
  day. And so it was 41°.
• 9:36
  I ended up playing and there's a there's a hole that goes by the
• 9:42
  in front of the range and he was on the range.
• 9:44
  And so I ended up getting in a fistfight.
• 9:47
  And so they start yelling fight, fight, fight.
• 9:50
  So my dad, he's big guy 63250, he runs down the range and the
• 9:55
  other guy was the other kid was on the ground and the fight was
• 9:58
  over and I stuck miles about 110 lbs and I put my hands up and he
• 10:03
  reared back and hit me as hard as he could in the stomach and I
• 10:09
  knocked the breath out of me. I go down and then he picks me
• 10:13
  up and does it again. And so then he drags me by my
• 10:17
  ankle about 400 yards to the pro shop.
• 10:19
  It was front page news. So it was my my mother had to
• 10:25
  live through that, which was tough for her.
• 10:28
  And then he ended up losing his job because of that.
• 10:33
  But that was a really, that was a big moment.
• 10:37
  So he ended up not having a job. He got a couple of degrees.
• 10:41
  And then when I left, I never drank any alcohol.
• 10:45
  And when the day that I left for college, he left to Washington.
• 10:50
  And that was we didn't see each other for quite some time.
• 10:53
  But on that night, it was my first night to ever consume
• 10:56
  alcohol. It was my first day in college.
• 10:58
  So. But it was it was it was rough
• 11:02
  because, yeah, I just didn't think that I was.
• 11:05
  When I walk in still to this day, sometimes I walk in rooms
• 11:08
  and I don't think that I'm like worthy to be inside the room.
• 11:12
  I almost had that mindset of that I just wasn't as good as
• 11:16
  anyone else. And so and then I masked that by
• 11:20
  probably talking too much or inflating what I am, and I had
• 11:24
  to learn not to do that. And so there was a lot of
• 11:27
  things, but I would say alcohol and drugs, if I wouldn't have
• 11:31
  gotten on those, I would have just thought I was normal.
• 11:33
  But really I was a really sick person because, you know, before
• 11:38
  my dad, his dad taught him that. And I don't think my dad didn't.
• 11:43
  I know he loves me. He just this is what how he was
• 11:46
  taught. And so that was just a long line
• 11:49
  that you have to break. And so be an alcoholic and drug
• 11:53
  addict. Breaking that and recognizing
• 11:55
  that I was an outcast in society was the greatest thing for me
• 12:00
  because I knew I was going to die and there was no doubt about
• 12:03
  it. Many times I would start, I'd
• 12:06
  start breathing and ran my car off the road and so I knew the
• 12:10
  death was inevitable and so it was.
• 12:13
  Did you want to die? There was many times I was doing
• 12:18
  towards the end, right before I went in that rehab, I had done
• 12:21
  too much. I'd done like 28 balls in one
• 12:24
  night and my veins were sticking out not only in my arms but my
• 12:29
  chest. And I just remember thinking I'm
• 12:31
  probably going to die. And then I, I was like, you know
• 12:34
  what, death would probably be better.
• 12:36
  And so then I put down a A1 gram line and did the whole thing.
• 12:40
  So it was didn't end up dying, but that I just remember it
• 12:44
  wasn't. I just hadn't done anything
• 12:46
  success besides sports in my life and I just didn't think
• 12:50
  that I was going to be successful.
• 12:52
  So my son coming into the world pretty much saved me.
• 12:56
  Did he come into the world before rehab?
• 12:59
  No, he came in the world. He was when I went to that
• 13:03
  rehab, I had gone, we had gotten divorced.
• 13:06
  I'd gone to pick him up and I'd separated those two worlds from
• 13:09
  him. And so my dealer called and
• 13:13
  said, Hey, I've got an oxy is something you, you just, you,
• 13:16
  you just can't just like take off 3 days.
• 13:18
  And so he was going out of town. And so I, I brought my son to
• 13:22
  this house and I just remember thinking like, what am I going
• 13:25
  to do with him? Should, can I take him in or
• 13:28
  should I just, he was in the car seat.
• 13:30
  And so I was like, OK, I'll just go in and get it and then I'll
• 13:33
  come back out. And when I got back out and this
• 13:35
  is, this is going to cry, he was like, where'd you go, Dad?
• 13:40
  You know, what was so important that you left me for the first
• 13:43
  time? And so it was, that was probably
• 13:46
  the first time I felt convicted. And that's when I called my
• 13:50
  sister. She's a youth pastor in Fort
• 13:52
  Worth. And she was like, I've got a
• 13:54
  place for you. And so I went there and it was
• 13:58
  it was rough. You know, you're living with 90
• 14:00
  guys in a 5000 square foot home. It was very, very, very, very
• 14:05
  taxing. 3 minute showers. It was really, really tough, but
• 14:09
  it was it was really great because I got mentored by a guy
• 14:12
  that was ended up being incredible for me.
• 14:14
  I'm crying, not the first time someone's crying of my job, but
• 14:19
  the first time someone's made me cry, so thank you.
• 14:22
  Absolutely. I'd never really helped anybody
• 14:24
  but myself. And so we would go out and
• 14:26
  evangelize for probably 6 to 8 hours a day, 6:00 to 8:00.
• 14:30
  You what? Evangelize so, so evangelisms
• 14:35
  where they would give us, they would sell bread or beaded
• 14:39
  necklaces. And because the ministry is
• 14:42
  free, so they have to support it.
• 14:44
  So you go out on the streets and this is kind of what helped me
• 14:47
  to be good in sales. So I'd walk out.
• 14:49
  So you realize at that moment when your son asked you where
• 14:53
  you where you went and you left him in the car and then that
• 14:58
  that was the catalyst for you. Yeah.
• 15:00
  So I, I went down there and visited that home.
• 15:02
  I, I, I called my, my mother and so I, I went to my sister and
• 15:07
  told her I'm going to go and I'll go visit this place.
• 15:10
  So I visited, came back that next week, went out for the last
• 15:14
  high which. I know a lot, yeah.
• 15:17
  Yeah, yeah. So I went out and, you know, you
• 15:20
  go harder than ever before. I was doing coke with girls and
• 15:24
  guys and I went into the shower and my nose is bleeding and.
• 15:29
  And it was like, you know, it was like my son's voice was just
• 15:33
  sitting there saying, Daddy, where you at?
• 15:35
  You know, one of those things. So I packed everything I owned
• 15:39
  in a backpack and I walked out. And those guys, people were
• 15:42
  there partying still. It's like 6 in the morning.
• 15:45
  And I said, bro, where are you going?
• 15:46
  I'm going, I'm leaving. And I said, well, get us some
• 15:49
  cigarettes. And I said, you'll never see me
• 15:51
  again. So I said, I I walked out, I
• 15:55
  made it. I was on all sorts of coke and
• 15:59
  then I took an 80 milligram Oxycontin and then when I got to
• 16:03
  Ardmore, I went to my mom's house because I couldn't drive
• 16:05
  anymore and took the other 80 milligram Oxycontin so could
• 16:08
  level me out and then went into that rehab and that's when it
• 16:15
  started 9/9 of 09. 9/9 of 09 were you.
• 16:20
  You were married. I was divorced.
• 16:22
  You were divorced, so your ex took your son.
• 16:26
  So I told her I was in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil doing oil and
• 16:29
  gas. So I thought I'd be able to call
• 16:31
  her, but they took my cell phone.
• 16:33
  So that became another problem. So this is the place is cut off
• 16:37
  some society you I didn't even know that any world events that
• 16:42
  were going on while I was in there.
• 16:43
  And it is up at 5:00. It's it's a Christian boot camp.
• 16:50
  It is very difficult. One of the hardest times I've
• 16:55
  ever had is the guy yelled at me for doing something like putting
• 16:59
  my sweatshirt in a cubbyhole after I was, I would do car
• 17:03
  wash. So he came and yelled at me.
• 17:06
  And so that I went down in front of my mentor, one of my best
• 17:09
  friends now, And he said, I remember this.
• 17:14
  It was a great teaching. He asked him to leave.
• 17:17
  He said, you know, the, the, the authority's always right.
• 17:19
  And he was, I was like, OK, so I was like, how could you think
• 17:22
  this guy's right? He's, he's yelling at me this
• 17:24
  and that. And he goes, can you name three
• 17:26
  things you don't like about that guy?
• 17:28
  And I was like, absolutely, let me give them to you.
• 17:31
  And you only want 3. And so I, so I named him off and
• 17:34
  he goes, I want you to, he goes, do you want to grow?
• 17:37
  And I said, yeah, I said, he goes, now I want you to do
• 17:39
  something you never done. Name three things you don't like
• 17:42
  about yourself. And I sat there and thought
• 17:45
  about it for a little bit and he said, are they the exact three
• 17:49
  things you don't like about him? And I was like, yeah, they are,
• 17:53
  he said. See what?
• 17:54
  Were. They, they were just like the
• 17:56
  he's egotistical. He's always abrasive.
• 18:00
  I went over a list of he made me write down all my insecurities
• 18:03
  after that. So it's, it's sometimes I don't
• 18:07
  put somebody's feelings in front of myself.
• 18:09
  It was, it was always my way or the highway.
• 18:12
  And the coolest part was he goes.
• 18:15
  You think when you pray to God that God plucks the hair out of
• 18:18
  your head and it's gone. He goes, but he doesn't.
• 18:20
  He sends a vessel. He says iron sharpens iron as
• 18:23
  one man sharpens another. And this is the guy.
• 18:26
  And so he goes. Most people want to separate
• 18:29
  themselves from somebody who irks them, but the people who
• 18:32
  irked them are there to teach them.
• 18:34
  So what he goes, he asked me this and this was one of the
• 18:37
  best teachings I've ever had. He said you want me to help you
• 18:39
  grow And I was like golly, what's this going to you know,
• 18:42
  what's this going to entitle? So I said sure.
• 18:45
  He goes for 14 days. You won't, you won't leave a 5
• 18:49
  foot radius of this guy. He goes, he'll sleep on your
• 18:52
  bunk. He goes, y'all be bunk mates.
• 18:54
  He goes when you use the bathroom at 2:00 in the morning,
• 18:57
  He's going to go with you and he goes when he prays, you pray and
• 19:00
  at the end of the day he's your authority and he you have
• 19:03
  anything short of sin, he is going to can tell you what to do
• 19:07
  and you need to abide by it. That was probably the hardest 14
• 19:11
  days of my life. So it was he was over book
• 19:15
  report, he was over car wash. He was also over where I had to
• 19:19
  make bread so he would make me go get bananas to make banana
• 19:22
  nut bread at midnight. I would get done at 2:00 and
• 19:25
  then he had gave me the longest book report and he also had me
• 19:28
  on car wash and I had to be out there at 5:00 AM to wash the
• 19:31
  cars. So I only got 2 hours of sleep
• 19:35
  every a little bit less because of the book report.
• 19:37
  So I was just running. I mean I was falling asleep
• 19:41
  standing up. It was really hard.
• 19:43
  And I've got this guy that's breathing down my throat and it
• 19:46
  taught me how to be obedient to somebody I didn't respect.
• 19:50
  And that was probably one of the best teachings I've ever had it
• 19:54
  it allowed me to learn how to follow correctly, which
• 19:58
  inevitably made me be able to lead correctly.
• 20:01
  So it's, it's very hard to follow somebody that you don't
• 20:04
  respect. And it taught me and I got to
• 20:07
  really get inside his head and just talk to him.
• 20:10
  We ended up becoming good friends, but he was one of the
• 20:13
  greatest teachings that I had as far as at that point in my life.
• 20:19
  It's interesting because when I was going through a lot of
• 20:22
  therapy, I remember them saying what you hate in other people is
• 20:26
  generally what you hate in yourself.
• 20:28
  Yeah. And so it lines up exactly with
• 20:30
  what you just said in that. And it's I kind of argued it.
• 20:34
  I was like, no, because I, I will see you.
• 20:36
  I'm like, no, I need to think about that again because I was
• 20:39
  like, what I, you know what I hate in, in my father.
• 20:43
  I feel like I'm the opposite. So I, I, I'm confused by it, but
• 20:47
  I, I need to do more thinking on that, right?
• 20:51
  Because I'm like, he's complacent and I'm a workhorse,
• 20:55
  right? And like these, these types of
• 20:56
  things, like he's lazy and he's not smart and he doesn't learn.
• 21:00
  He doesn't like to learn. He doesn't provide, he doesn't
• 21:02
  protect, like all these things. I'm like, I'm the opposite.
• 21:04
  I do all those things, but there's probably something more
• 21:08
  in in there that that I see that I, I, that I am maybe that I
• 21:13
  don't like in myself, but. It probably give you the
• 21:15
  motivation to be what you are there.
• 21:17
  Yeah, it did. And that's where it comes back
• 21:19
  to. It's the greatest blessing.
• 21:21
  And that's what Doctor Gabramate was saying.
• 21:24
  He said what was done to you because it's it's it's so hard
• 21:28
  for people to comprehend like that.
• 21:33
  That could be a blessing, right? Like that, your dad beating you
• 21:38
  could be a blessing. It's hard.
• 21:39
  It's hard while you're in it. So it's when you get through it,
• 21:45
  it really makes you, you know, conflict like to when I have a
• 21:52
  conflict with somebody, it's, it's kind of strange, but I, it
• 21:55
  doesn't mean I see their hands sometimes shaking when I have a
• 21:59
  conflict. It doesn't.
• 22:00
  I'm probably the most because I've been in so many.
• 22:03
  I was in them every day. Every day I walked in the house.
• 22:05
  It was going to be a conflict. So when I got into business and
• 22:09
  there was and you're going to have conflicts, the conflict
• 22:11
  didn't bother me. Learning how to resolve the
• 22:14
  conflict healthy is what took me a while to learn.
• 22:18
  Well, it took an incredible amount of therapy because I had
• 22:22
  never seen conflict resolved in a healthy way.
• 22:25
  It was like it's my way or the highway or there's going to be
• 22:28
  physical violence and that's the only way I knew.
• 22:31
  And that was but to learn how to hear somebody.
• 22:35
  That was really tough for me too.
• 22:37
  So because I don't think I ever felt heard.
• 22:40
  And so when you don't ever feel heard like you were talking
• 22:43
  about, you don't really know how to hear somebody else either.
• 22:46
  So that was there was there was a lot.
• 22:48
  I I the sky, you know, I started on the floor with all these
• 22:52
  things. So there was only one way to go
• 22:53
  but up and I feel blessed that I had to go through all that stuff
• 22:58
  because it, it might, you know, you have that grind moment
• 23:02
  though in entrepreneur. I mean, cause most of the time
• 23:05
  things don't go your way. And so you always think about
• 23:09
  the, when things do go your way. But there's that you get around
• 23:13
  these people who are just grinders and you can tell that
• 23:16
  they're just, this is where we're going and this is how
• 23:20
  we're going to get there. And, and the one thing that I
• 23:22
  learned from that was there's a lot of times that where I want
• 23:26
  to go is not where God wants me to go.
• 23:29
  And so when he's closed doors and I've been like, Kelly,
• 23:32
  that's what I wanted to do, another door opens.
• 23:35
  That's just way better than I thought it was going to be.
• 23:38
  So when we transition and we go to and this, you know, this has
• 23:42
  happened. This happens all the time now.
• 23:44
  So I look and like, is this this really the way that I need to
• 23:47
  go? Or is, am I being stopped for a
• 23:50
  reason? And so when and this it, it's,
• 23:53
  it's happened. It happens all the time in my
• 23:55
  career as far as that goes. But being going through that and
• 24:01
  going through that ministry and learning from those guys that
• 24:04
  were just, and they're still my friends today.
• 24:07
  Some of those teachings that I learned inside there have been
• 24:09
  the greatest teachings I've ever, ever seen.
• 24:11
  Robert Kiyosaki and I talk about this a lot.
• 24:13
  He says wealth is a spiritual game, Life is a spiritual game,
• 24:18
  right? And business is a spiritual
• 24:20
  game. Was it difficult for you to open
• 24:22
  up your heart to God when you were going through rehab and all
• 24:25
  of that? Or were you like, I was very
• 24:28
  resistant to God in my childhood because it was another way I
• 24:31
  didn't feel seen, heard or protected.
• 24:32
  I was like, what the hell are you, you know, like hello, and
• 24:36
  so I was very much F you God for many, many years and my parents
• 24:40
  were were very religious and that was, you know, through
• 24:43
  them. I didn't feel seen her to
• 24:44
  protected. And so therefore, I, I hated God
• 24:47
  and it was hard for me to open up my heart back to God and
• 24:52
  build that relationship with God.
• 24:53
  But through a series of actually through plant medicine was a way
• 24:57
  that I started to become closer with God and like really finally
• 25:01
  feel him in my heart because it was always like, where are you?
• 25:03
  I don't feel you. I don't see you, I don't hear
• 25:06
  you like you, you don't seem to be protecting me and all these
• 25:08
  things. But through that journey of
• 25:10
  appealing, that's where I was like, Oh, you're, you're here.
• 25:12
  You've been in my heart the whole time.
• 25:14
  And I haven't been listening to you.
• 25:16
  Like I haven't been open to anything that you've had to, to
• 25:20
  share with me. But what like for you, how much
• 25:24
  of your journey has been a spiritual journey?
• 25:26
  And was the opening up your heart to him a difficult
• 25:30
  process, or were you ready for it at that time?
• 25:32
  I looked at God like he was a fictional character that these
• 25:35
  that I was always in church and my mom was always, you know, you
• 25:40
  need to pray, you need to go read the Bible.
• 25:42
  But I was I never had seen God show up for me.
• 25:46
  It was like, if I'm going to do this, I got to go do it myself.
• 25:49
  And so it wasn't till I entered that rehab that God became real
• 25:54
  to me. And yeah, I became a became a
• 25:59
  relationship and, and I got to see miracles upon miracles
• 26:03
  happen right in front of me. Just like we're out on route
• 26:08
  and, and somebody's we're praying and there's like some
• 26:12
  somebody across the field is sitting over there and we, we
• 26:15
  say, hey, we need. I just feel like God is drawing
• 26:17
  me to go talk to that person. And I watched as we walked over
• 26:20
  there. This guy's shooting up with
• 26:22
  heroin in his arm and he was like, I prayed for somebody to
• 26:25
  come and help me and and you're you're it.
• 26:29
  And so I watched that guy go through that program and and his
• 26:32
  life changed. He never complained.
• 26:33
  But you know, as I got closer to God, I, I noticed that this is
• 26:39
  sometimes the small things that you don't notice anything God's
• 26:42
  doing for me when you're not really looking.
• 26:44
  But when you start looking, you see all these things that it, it
• 26:48
  happens all the time, all the way down to the weather or the,
• 26:51
  the smell of my daughter making cookies.
• 26:54
  You know, like how grateful you are.
• 26:57
  And when you live in that gratitude and you start to see
• 27:00
  what God's doing for you in your life and how he orchestrates,
• 27:03
  like how did he orchestrate this relationship?
• 27:06
  You know, it was just, we meet one time and there's then
• 27:10
  there's everything that you know, it just it's a beautiful,
• 27:13
  I call it the the greatest Symphony ever written because,
• 27:17
  you know, before I came in to like, I was just a guy sitting
• 27:20
  in Ardmore and, you know, didn't really have much going.
• 27:24
  And then I started to really kind of get out there and get
• 27:27
  after it and I started to meet people like you and, you know,
• 27:31
  like Kent, all the people that that we see on, you know, time
• 27:34
  and time again. And, and I start to just learn
• 27:37
  like I walked in, you know, like thinking on the boardroom, I
• 27:40
  walked in thinking that it was that I had everything put
• 27:43
  together. And, and then I learned I was
• 27:46
  probably in the bottom tier of the people that of running
• 27:49
  companies. And so I just learned from, you
• 27:52
  know, we're out here, you know, going through this and learning
• 27:54
  again. But I would say that that is,
• 27:59
  that is something that I kind of got off topic on that.
• 28:03
  But no, I, I would say that that is, you know, that spiritual,
• 28:07
  it's, it's been, you know, when they taught me how to have a
• 28:10
  relationship and really just relying on God and just, and
• 28:14
  it's been the, the greatest thing about it has been my kids.
• 28:17
  I mean, because that's my number one responsibility is to teach
• 28:21
  them. And both of my kids are really,
• 28:24
  really good Christian people and they want the best for them.
• 28:27
  You know, when you're just, you become depressed when you have 0
• 28:30
  gratitude and you only focus on to me, you, you become, when
• 28:35
  you're grateful and you start focusing on other people and how
• 28:38
  to help them. I would say that's that's why we
• 28:41
  have people out here. That's why I love the people I
• 28:44
  work with and I want to see them be.
• 28:47
  So when I learn all these nifty things that you know, you know
• 28:50
  how to offset debt, how to do all these things, I'm like
• 28:54
  writing it down, showing them how to construct their life
• 28:57
  because they're paying a lot of taxes to that relationship with
• 29:00
  God is probably the most important thing for me.
• 29:03
  Yeah, that's awesome that you raise good children too that are
• 29:06
  have a good relationship. It's changed my life and I'm not
• 29:08
  a preacher and I'm not a great big like religious person.
• 29:12
  Like believe what you want to believe religion wise.
• 29:16
  Like there's thousands of them and they're man made.
• 29:17
  So I don't, you know, I just don't really care what religion
• 29:20
  people follow or get involved in that.
• 29:21
  But the relationship with the creator, like that's the same
• 29:26
  thing I think for all of us, like we have a creator and that
• 29:31
  relationship is the most it has been the most impactful thing in
• 29:35
  my life from from going like you can't be depressed and grateful
• 29:39
  at the same time. You know if you're depressed,
• 29:42
  you are ungrateful and you are in victimhood and you are
• 29:46
  disconnected from your Creator. That's that's true.
• 29:49
  And that's exactly what I what I had found.
• 29:51
  And so becoming, building a relationship with my creator and
• 29:55
  recognizing the Symphony that he creates and reading, I actually
• 30:01
  just recently started reading scripture.
• 30:03
  Oh, really? Yeah.
• 30:04
  And it is pretty incredible. Like take religion out of it.
• 30:09
  But it's pretty incredible. The messages.
• 30:11
  I was like a playbook for life. And there's really good business
• 30:14
  lessons are there too. And I'm just dissecting it and
• 30:17
  working with my AI and figuring out like, what does this mean
• 30:20
  and how do I dissect this? And it is, it is so amazing.
• 30:23
  And one of the scriptures says something along the lines of I
• 30:26
  pray that you will open any door that's only meant for, for me
• 30:31
  and close any door that's not. And that's what you were just
• 30:34
  saying, how sometimes we think we want something and then we're
• 30:38
  frustrated as to why we're not getting it or why that door
• 30:42
  seems to keep closing or be closed or we get veered off in
• 30:45
  another direction. And we're that's this.
• 30:47
  I always talk about flow versus force.
• 30:49
  That's when we're in the state of force and we're trying to
• 30:51
  force outcomes in our life. We're trying to, you know, force
• 30:54
  the business outcome force, the relationship outcome force,
• 30:57
  whatever it is. And we lose that connection and
• 31:00
  that guy and that faith and that trust.
• 31:02
  And like, OK, maybe this isn't for me and maybe there's
• 31:05
  actually a reason for this. And let me trust in God's timing
• 31:09
  and trust in something bigger than myself and surrender to the
• 31:12
  fact that I don't have to have it all figured out.
• 31:16
  And I'm not going to understand it right now in this moment, but
• 31:19
  I am going to understand it someday.
• 31:21
  And let me just let things flow and pay attention to the signs
• 31:25
  and to the messages and to the open doors that are in front of
• 31:28
  us and not keep trying to fight them.
• 31:31
  So yeah. Yeah, I mean there my, I mean
• 31:34
  one of mine is there's, when I was in there, it was a Romans 5
• 31:38
  was like, it's about tribulation and how tribulation creates
• 31:41
  character and character produces hope.
• 31:44
  And so that was pretty much the basis of that what you just
• 31:49
  said. And I loved your presentation,
• 31:51
  by the way, in Turks. But yeah, that's that is that I
• 31:55
  would say that that is spot on. You know, when you're when
• 31:58
  you're flowing and not pressing against everything and causing
• 32:01
  everything to have friction, It's and you know, I know it
• 32:05
  best when I don't have peace, you know, like you're just I'm
• 32:09
  always on edge. I'm about to, you know, yell at
• 32:12
  somebody walking down the sidewalk.
• 32:14
  And I know that things are not is there's a lot of friction
• 32:17
  going on in my life. And that's it always starts with
• 32:19
  inside me. It's always so I know that when
• 32:24
  things aren't going right with other people, that is that's a
• 32:27
  me problem. And so, and then took me a long
• 32:31
  time to get to that, that to to really say that to myself.
• 32:35
  Like I can't fix anybody out here, but I can fix me.
• 32:39
  And the way that I respond to people and I always say business
• 32:42
  has no emotions. So it's a, you know, when I'm in
• 32:45
  business, I tried to stay, you know, tactful.
• 32:48
  And it was a lot of times when, you know, I had anger issues.
• 32:51
  So I would get upset that they weren't doing what I wanted them
• 32:55
  to do. And so I would get upset with
• 32:58
  them when they wouldn't do. You know, the biggest thing for
• 33:03
  me is when somebody tells me they're going to do something
• 33:05
  and doesn't deliver, that's somebody who we probably won't
• 33:09
  be associates very long. So that's a that's a big thing
• 33:12
  with. Me same that's value.
• 33:14
  Oh, it's, it's probably my biggest value, which I told my
• 33:17
  son, I said if you can just deliver on your word in this
• 33:20
  world, you're ahead of 99 / 100 people because they have no
• 33:24
  value for their name. I said, but your name has to be
• 33:28
  the most priceless asset that you have.
• 33:31
  I said as long as you always and and my grandfather told me that
• 33:35
  my grandfather was going to sell something and he was going to
• 33:39
  sell it for I. It was for I, it was like, it
• 33:43
  was like 500,000 and somebody else offered him 800,000 And I
• 33:47
  was like, are you going to do this other transit?
• 33:50
  And he was like, absolutely not. I'm going to sell it for
• 33:52
  500,000. I was like, why?
• 33:54
  And he goes, my name's worth more than that. 300,000 And I
• 33:57
  was and that was that was a big team.
• 33:59
  My grandfather, his character is probably the best character I've
• 34:04
  ever met on planet Earth. So he, you know, even though I
• 34:08
  was going through all these traumatic trials, I got to hang
• 34:12
  around with him and he taught me business.
• 34:15
  So, but he was, we were really good friends.
• 34:18
  I went to lunch with him about three days a week and he ended
• 34:22
  up passing away about six years ago.
• 34:25
  And but he'd really taught me those things that are, you know,
• 34:29
  to always call somebody back. It doesn't matter if they're the
• 34:31
  janitor or the CEO, he goes always call him back and, and
• 34:36
  he'd live by that and I got to watch him live that and it
• 34:39
  couldn't have been a better teacher.
• 34:40
  So I've tried to pass that down to my kids and they, you know,
• 34:44
  with today's time, they don't even want to pick up the phone.
• 34:46
  I'm like you, you got to quit tik toking and whatever else
• 34:50
  they do these days. I said, pick up the phone and
• 34:52
  actually have a relationship with somebody because kids don't
• 34:55
  want to do that. It's but my kids, they're, I'm,
• 34:58
  I'm blessed. They they're, they could walk in
• 35:01
  and do this show and sit here just like me and they would,
• 35:04
  they'd probably do it better because they, but I would
• 35:08
  they're, they're, they're just really good kids and some both
• 35:11
  both kids. So I'm blessed to be able to
• 35:14
  walk with them every day. And he got to go to watching
• 35:19
  Carter and Maddie as their names are their names and they
• 35:23
  watching them grow and really be great people has been and one of
• 35:28
  the greatest blessing. Being called Dad is the one of
• 35:32
  the best things I've ever been called.
• 35:34
  Did you want kids as a kid? Yeah, I didn't know it would
• 35:38
  come so soon. So, and, and one of the good
• 35:41
  stories also, I should tell you that when I got out of the
• 35:44
  rehab, my, their, their mother and I got remarried.
• 35:48
  Oh wow. And so.
• 35:49
  Are you still together? Yeah.
• 35:50
  We've been together for 19 years.
• 35:52
  Yeah. So we didn't have Maddie yet,
• 35:54
  but when we got out, it's she, she actually went to that
• 35:59
  program too. She wasn't a drug addict, but I
• 36:01
  wanted us to be equally yoked and so she went in there as
• 36:04
  well. So it's wow.
• 36:05
  Yeah, the the tough one. Yes.
• 36:07
  Geez, yes, that's a, that's a, she went.
• 36:10
  For a month and I went for 100 and 8082 days.
• 36:13
  Yeah, so. That's wow.
• 36:15
  So, so going back, because you said you were already, you told
• 36:18
  her you're doing oil and gas at 29.
• 36:20
  So you were already in business when you were still doing drugs
• 36:23
  and going through this whole life crisis.
• 36:26
  So who taught you? Because I was telling you at the
• 36:29
  start of the show, I didn't have any money growing up.
• 36:32
  We owe my my parents, my mom was a night shift grocery bagger.
• 36:34
  My dad worked at a pawn shop and I just had the Internet and
• 36:38
  books, right. So I would research how to get
• 36:40
  rich because I thought that's was the answer to freedom and
• 36:43
  peace and happiness, which is what I wanted in my life.
• 36:46
  And it said, you know, own a business and buy real estate and
• 36:49
  invest, right? So it was like stock market real
• 36:51
  estate and entrepreneurship. Nothing told me about oil and
• 36:55
  gas and royalties and insurance and all this stuff.
• 36:58
  So like, how the hell did you learn that?
• 36:59
  Kali so and it's, yeah, it's, it's a veiled community.
• 37:03
  So you couldn't it's like real estate.
• 37:05
  You can find thousands of people to you know to do to learn from
• 37:09
  that, but but it only guess there's I can only name one guy
• 37:12
  that that speaks on it. Who's that?
• 37:16
  His name is Steven Hatcher. Is it because it's like a good
• 37:19
  old boys club or is it? I you know, it could it is a old
• 37:27
  it's old school. So we're you know, we're behind
• 37:31
  in technology. You guys are you can't just go
• 37:35
  out and have a computer system run your title.
• 37:39
  You we want to keep it to where it's we're got land men.
• 37:42
  Land men are the the show is is different than what a land he's
• 37:46
  he's most he's a company man, which means he runs a land man
• 37:50
  never goes out to an all well they only stay in and read
• 37:53
  records of. So when I would, if I was going
• 37:55
  to run title on your land, I would have to go to the county
• 37:59
  clerk's house in this county and I'd have to start at conception
• 38:02
  of statehood and run it forward. And we put together a.
• 38:06
  So all the way back to the state being formed, is that OK?
• 38:09
  That's how you run the cleanest title.
• 38:11
  So that company does you know right away due diligence,
• 38:14
  curative leasing and title. And so ExxonMobil would come and
• 38:19
  say, I want, if this was 200,000 acres, this table, they want
• 38:23
  everything run, all the title run and everything waste.
• 38:26
  And so I would go out there and do that.
• 38:28
  So the way I learned it is we own 12,000 acres.
• 38:32
  My granddad did. And so my granddad was like, you
• 38:35
  know, why don't you go and try to run our title?
• 38:37
  So he sent me out. He said just try to ask the land
• 38:41
  man inside the vault. So you go into a vault that
• 38:43
  holds all the land records and you just start, you pull an
• 38:47
  index and then you look at the section Township and range that
• 38:50
  you're in. And then you you, you index
• 38:53
  those book page, book page, book page.
• 38:55
  And then you start to read of how that flowed through when the
• 38:59
  Indians turned it over to the United States government to win
• 39:02
  all the way out to present day. And it can be one person owning
• 39:07
  that section or it could be 5000 and you have to go to the six
• 39:11
  decimal point and you have to figure out and it has to all add
• 39:14
  up to 640, which is the size of a a section.
• 39:17
  So we 100 and. 40 acres. Yeah, so I worked for my
• 39:21
  granddad and I didn't even know it was a business.
• 39:23
  I was like, he was like, you know, people do this for a
• 39:26
  living. I was like, they do.
• 39:28
  And he was like, yeah, one of my, I'm on the same floor.
• 39:30
  I worked for a company called Rd.
• 39:31
  Williams and I probably wasn't I wouldn't put as the best
• 39:35
  employee they've ever had and I don't think they would agree
• 39:37
  with that either. So it was I was probably one of
• 39:39
  the worst. So I went to work.
• 39:40
  I learned about title they put me and title for me is really
• 39:45
  tough to do because you're sitting there all day grinding
• 39:48
  over different pages takes a it takes a special person to go run
• 39:52
  title. No, it's I was like, so stuck in
• 39:58
  sitting here reading these bells like this can't be the right
• 40:00
  thing for me. So I did that for probably about
• 40:04
  a year and finally they were like, we're going to move you to
• 40:07
  leasing. And I didn't even know what it
• 40:09
  was and I started leasing. I was just picking up from
• 40:11
  talking to people. I was like, I can do this.
• 40:14
  So I I started calling I became they and it was such a cool
• 40:18
  event how I learned it because I.
• 40:21
  I was inside this room and I was usually hungover, so there were
• 40:25
  these four older gentlemen that sat beside me and they critiqued
• 40:29
  every phone call and it freaking drove me up the wall.
• 40:34
  And the cool blessing on that was they were teaching me things
• 40:39
  that I didn't even know they were teaching me.
• 40:41
  But just being around them, they had like 100 years of experience
• 40:45
  and later on in life, after I got out of rehab, I went to work
• 40:49
  for what I would say a kind of a, a newer company that was all
• 40:55
  about take all young guys and girls and that we're into more
• 41:00
  technology. And they put me in the worst
• 41:03
  area. And they're like, Hey, I would
• 41:04
  prepare to get fired because you have to get 8 leases this month.
• 41:09
  I was like, why am I getting fired?
• 41:10
  They're like the last four people who've worked your
• 41:13
  section got fired. And I was like, hmm, so I went
• 41:16
  out there and I actually led the company and I did it by what
• 41:20
  these old guys had had taught me.
• 41:23
  And I was like, this stuff freaking works.
• 41:25
  And so they showed me how to look up somebody, like how to do
• 41:29
  it, not buy a computer, how to go to the town, get with the
• 41:32
  post office and all these different tricks that they
• 41:34
  taught me. And that really got me to where
• 41:37
  I was. I was the top leasing agent in
• 41:39
  the whole Barnett shell. And it was all because of what
• 41:42
  they taught me, like how to walk up to somebody, how to go over
• 41:45
  their minerals and how to sit on the back of a, you know, a John
• 41:49
  Deere tractor in the middle of the field and go over this
• 41:51
  contract, which is something you'll do and, and oil and gas
• 41:54
  all the time. So, so in leasing in oil and in
• 41:59
  minerals is how do you know that's the right, the right?
• 42:02
  But basically you're finding people that have minerals in
• 42:05
  their land and then you're you're finding drillers, oil
• 42:11
  people to lease the land from them.
• 42:13
  So they have what do you, what does it even leasing mean?
• 42:17
  Yeah. So you in this world, so it's
• 42:19
  separate. So 50 feet below the surface is
• 42:22
  to the core of the earth are minerals, 50 feet and up our
• 42:25
  surface water rights, our surface.
• 42:28
  But you would go in the first thing we would do if we were
• 42:30
  working for a company they hire, they might tell us to hire 100
• 42:34
  people. We go out and run the title and
• 42:37
  while they're running the title we're actually leasing.
• 42:39
  So we can, we can pull a lot of things to figure out who that
• 42:42
  we, we call them up, they tell us, hey, we want to offer $2000
• 42:45
  on a three-year with a 2 year option with three sixteenths
• 42:48
  royalty. So that means pretty much that
• 42:51
  if you had one acre, we're going to give you $2000 upfront.
• 42:55
  It's going to be 3 years. And if we end up, you know, we
• 42:58
  get the discretion to, to put on the two year option.
• 43:02
  So we would pay you an additional two $2000.00 an acre.
• 43:05
  And then you get 3 sixteenths royalty pretty much based on the
• 43:10
  unit size is going to be either like 640 or 12180 acres.
• 43:15
  So you would take the acreage that they own, divide it by the
• 43:18
  unit size and then multiply that by the royalty, which will get
• 43:21
  your decimal point. And so that company just does
• 43:25
  that. So then they the client is the
• 43:27
  operator, they're the driller. So you're just, they're going to
• 43:30
  drill a well there. And our job is to secure the
• 43:33
  most acreage in that section, preferably always over 51%.
• 43:38
  So they have operating control. And so that's what that company
• 43:42
  does as far as and we do it all over the country, probably we've
• 43:46
  done it probably 12 States and we've worked for most of the
• 43:50
  time, we've worked for 46 publicly traded companies.
• 43:53
  And so those projects can be big.
• 43:55
  It's anywhere from it could be two people all the way up to 4
• 43:59
  or 500. So they hire you to find land
• 44:03
  that they can lease. They already have the land
• 44:06
  picked out. So they would give me a map and
• 44:08
  they would say we want to, we want to, to buy right here.
• 44:13
  And so I would shoot people. Well, today you don't have to
• 44:16
  shoot them out to the courthouse.
• 44:17
  You can get digital so, but in Oklahoma, not all of it is
• 44:21
  digitized all the way back. So we would have to send out,
• 44:24
  send out imagers. The imagers would update to
• 44:27
  where it's now it's it's digitized.
• 44:29
  And so then we would send those off to landmen.
• 44:32
  They would start running title. All the while we're buying,
• 44:34
  we're going out to call in these leases we'd be offering, but we
• 44:38
  wouldn't have the acreage amounts that they have.
• 44:39
  They could own a .1 point 1/10 of an acre all the way up to
• 44:44
  hundreds. So we would offer them, they got
• 44:47
  us on what we're going to offer them.
• 44:48
  They give us the top and bottom. And then there you're, you're
• 44:51
  also negotiating the clauses inside of the lease, which are
• 44:54
  extremely important for mental owners.
• 44:57
  And so that's your company Grasslands.
• 44:58
  That's what grasslands. Says, OK, gotcha.
• 45:01
  And then so how like for the audience listening, how does one
• 45:06
  make money for what you do that's not in operations?
• 45:10
  That's not in SO. Like they don't want to go start
• 45:12
  an oil company. Like, yeah, 'cause you know,
• 45:14
  there's fund managers, there's syndicators, like there's
• 45:16
  investments that are in oil and gas.
• 45:18
  And I hear about them and I hear things like you have a great tax
• 45:22
  write off and you, you can make huge returns and long term
• 45:29
  income, but then you always hear like, but there's also a lot of
• 45:33
  risk. And so I, I've always stayed
• 45:36
  away from it because I don't understand it and a confused
• 45:38
  mind doesn't take action, right. And I want to understand it
• 45:40
  because a lot of the wealthiest people I know are in oil, oil
• 45:43
  and gas and royalties and minerals and like all these
• 45:45
  things. And it's funny because as you
• 45:48
  build more real estate, you start to see that like,
• 45:51
  commodities and minerals, like it all kind of starts to pull
• 45:53
  together and everybody starts to commingle and all of these
• 45:56
  different sectors. And recently, when I was in Mar
• 45:59
  a Lago with Robert Kiyosaki, I got to spend a couple days with,
• 46:02
  like, some big oil and gas guys. And I was trying to pick their
• 46:05
  brains. But I'm still confused about the
• 46:06
  whole thing. So like, yeah, explain it to a
• 46:08
  dummy on what it is and how you invest, what the risks are and
• 46:12
  why it is a great investment in your perspective because
• 46:15
  obviously you've done very well on it and there's lots of people
• 46:17
  that have done very well on it, and you've raised a lot of
• 46:20
  capital in that space, too. Yeah.
• 46:22
  So minerals, what we buy are, are minerals I, I, but I do look
• 46:26
  at minerals as they see it as a depreciating asset.
• 46:30
  So what we do is we buy what's called line of sight minerals
• 46:34
  under Tier 1 operators. So that means that we're going
• 46:37
  after the operators a big deal kind of like the operators a big
• 46:40
  deal when you're doing real estate.
• 46:42
  So there's, there's lots of similarities you can draw
• 46:44
  between the two worlds, but we go after one of the biggest
• 46:48
  companies we look for is Newborn Continental Devon.
• 46:52
  And when they drill, they drill in these, they file in patterns.
• 46:56
  And so I go in. So Newborn's probably the my
• 47:00
  favorite company to, to because they always are on time.
• 47:03
  When they file a permit, they drill in 45 days, but they, when
• 47:06
  they come on, they lease. So the first thing you'll see is
• 47:09
  leasing show up and so you'll start seeing leases filed.
• 47:12
  So we have software programs that send me emails that and I
• 47:15
  can see everything that they're doing and I see where their
• 47:17
  leases are, but we don't show up at that time.
• 47:20
  We wait until they do a spacing or pooling.
• 47:22
  The pooling gives you the names and addresses of everybody who
• 47:26
  owns in that section. So we, we scrape that data and
• 47:30
  we call them. The reason it's a, it's a great
• 47:32
  investment is well, it returns faster than anything in real
• 47:36
  estate for sure. A bad investment in oil and gas
• 47:40
  is going to return you your full capital in less than 40 months,
• 47:43
  so. A bad investment will return
• 47:46
  your capital in less than 40 months.
• 47:47
  Yes, a bad investment. So if you do working interest
• 47:51
  which is that probably better than a lot of the write off you
• 47:55
  get 90% write off. So working interest is this.
• 47:57
  So you, you buy minerals that are unleashed and then somebody
• 48:01
  comes along to lease it. You could actually to say I want
• 48:05
  to participate. Which means that you're going to
• 48:07
  be joint venture partners with the operator of which they'll
• 48:11
  give you an what's called an AFE affidavit for expenditure, which
• 48:14
  will tell you what the well pretty much broken down, you're
• 48:17
  going to owe $10,000 to be a partner with that operator per
• 48:20
  acre. But you get a 90% write off on,
• 48:24
  on all the expenses on of that, that operator that, that they
• 48:28
  have. And your return on investment is
• 48:31
  usually going to be within 12 to 18 months.
• 48:34
  So it's much faster than than real estate.
• 48:37
  You know, some real estate deals are 78910 years.
• 48:42
  Oil's not, I use oil investments as the engine to actually invest
• 48:48
  into real estate. So it's so we go out and we find
• 48:51
  these minerals. I, I already have contacts with,
• 48:54
  you know, billionaire guys, family office, private equity
• 48:57
  and I go and see who's, you know, who wants to be in this,
• 49:01
  this area. They come in, they say, well,
• 49:03
  we're, we're willing to pay X. So I'll go in and we probably
• 49:08
  have, I don't know, you know, 50 land like title guys.
• 49:12
  And we probably have another 30 to 40 acquisition agents And all
• 49:16
  they do is sit there and make phone calls all day to buy
• 49:20
  minerals. It's hard to do.
• 49:22
  You only get about a 2% out of every 100 phone calls about two
• 49:26
  will be maybes and so but we probably do for in between 3 to
• 49:33
  500 acres per month, which it's about a 32% return on investment
• 49:39
  every time I buy something so it's.
• 49:41
  In what time frame? Like if I were to give you
• 49:44
  $1,000,000, Yeah, I know, no investments guaranteed, there's
• 49:48
  a risk and you're most likely to lose your money.
• 49:50
  But if I were to give you $1,000,000 and everything worked
• 49:51
  out well, like an average deal, not a home run, not a bad deal,
• 49:56
  but an average deal, what could I expect my return to be and
• 49:59
  what timeline would I have to commit that money?
• 50:01
  Yeah. So I don't take on any
• 50:03
  investments in that world. I do all, I'm all self funded on
• 50:06
  that. But it would if you gave me a
• 50:09
  million. A. $1,000,000 and I went out and
• 50:12
  bought. You would probably get your
• 50:14
  investment. If I put that money to, to work,
• 50:17
  it'd be months to get another million back.
• 50:21
  So you'd that's because every time I buy an if I buy an acre,
• 50:26
  you know, I go buy 10 acres, I'm going to have spend, you know,
• 50:30
  let's just say it's 4000. Well, I'm going to sell that to
• 50:34
  my other investors for probably around 6000.
• 50:37
  So we, that's so the reason that my, my company, a lot of
• 50:42
  companies do this. They, they go arbitrage.
• 50:45
  So they buy this massive amount, which I've got great friends
• 50:49
  that, that make gazillions doing this, but they, they go out and
• 50:53
  they, they buy a billion dollars worth and they can arbitrage
• 50:57
  that and they'll sell it for 5 or 6 billion and they'll do it
• 51:01
  in about two years. What do you mean arbitrage that?
• 51:04
  So when they, they come in and they, they put together
• 51:07
  thousands upon thousands of acres and they, they buy from
• 51:11
  unsophisticated people and then they sell to sophisticated
• 51:14
  private equity. That's a.
• 51:16
  That's an arbitrage play. Gotcha.
• 51:18
  So in real estate, that'd be like wholesaling essentially, or
• 51:20
  flipping. But they but yeah, that they own
• 51:23
  it and the the reason it's so valuable, they'll put together
• 51:25
  150, 50,000 acres is the most. So I have one.
• 51:28
  Portfolio sales, yeah. I've got 1 friend that's done
• 51:31
  that. He's probably done 19 billion in
• 51:33
  sales. And so he's, he's a, he's a,
• 51:36
  he's a great guy, but we do it much on a much smaller basis.
• 51:39
  So we buy 500 acres on a monthly basis and then we'll sell that
• 51:43
  out and we make roughly somewhere between 1000 and $2000
• 51:48
  per acre on what we sell. So then we would flip that into
• 51:52
  different real estate once we've bought it.
• 51:54
  So because minerals are always declining because if you have
• 51:58
  something making $100,000 today, it might make 80 next month.
• 52:02
  So it's declining in value as it the only place it does.
• 52:06
  Because they're just running out.
• 52:07
  Well, because they're producing it and so until they drill
• 52:10
  another well, it's always going to be declined.
• 52:12
  So a well declines in the first year in Oklahoma by 80%.
• 52:18
  So you're going to get the bulk of what you that well on your
• 52:22
  first check. So they pay you 180 days after
• 52:25
  it's completed. And just just so you, you can do
• 52:28
  you know these terms, I'm just going to act like you don't know
• 52:30
  anything. So OK, so when you when you get
• 52:33
  ready to drill well, you get a permit.
• 52:35
  When you go to drill a well, those wells, this will shock you
• 52:39
  because you're not used to this. They might drill 2 miles down
• 52:44
  and three miles out. And so they're moving that drill
• 52:48
  bit, even though it's 4 miles away from where they are into
• 52:51
  there's a little stream that's, it's a, it's called shale.
• 52:55
  They put it the, the drill bit into this now.
• 52:57
  Now it's drilled. So that's what's called a duck
• 53:00
  drilled and uncompleted well, very valuable because they're
• 53:04
  about to come on and frack this. That means they're going to
• 53:07
  perforate the well bore and they're going to send millions
• 53:09
  of chemicals into the shell. It's going to break it apart and
• 53:13
  send it back through. That's called a completed well.
• 53:15
  That's how you do the completion completions.
• 53:18
  Drilling well takes 18 days. I can't remember how completion,
• 53:22
  I don't know how long completion, but I think it's
• 53:23
  four or five days to complete it and then it comes online.
• 53:28
  But they don't pay you initially.
• 53:30
  They take, most companies take about 6 months.
• 53:32
  Mewborn takes about 2:00 to 3:00.
• 53:35
  So that's one of the reasons I like them.
• 53:36
  But they, they pay you a lump check and most of the time
• 53:40
  you've worn drills at about 1000 barrels a day per well.
• 53:44
  And so the first probably 3 months they'll, it'll make 1000
• 53:47
  barrels a day. And then it'll start to see,
• 53:49
  it'll start to decline after month 3.
• 53:51
  But you start to get these big checks in and you move the
• 53:55
  capital of different things. And but it's a it's, it's a
• 53:58
  great business. I've loved it.
• 54:01
  I love the people who are in it that own minerals.
• 54:04
  I love going out to the middle of a farm.
• 54:07
  And I've also had like, just like the land man.
• 54:09
  I've had a double barrel shotgun in my face.
• 54:11
  Machetes. Seriously.
• 54:13
  You name it, because why? I had to work in the Hispanic
• 54:16
  district in Fort Worth. And the problem was their fence
• 54:20
  was around their yard. So the only way to get in, you
• 54:22
  had to jump the fence. Well, they knew you weren't
• 54:24
  supposed to be there. So I was, I would open the door
• 54:27
  and there would be a double barrel shotgun.
• 54:29
  There'd be all sorts of because it was a rough neighborhood.
• 54:32
  And so we were out there leasing for Chesapeake Energy.
• 54:35
  And that was my, I had 2500 rooftops.
• 54:38
  That was the only time I've ever done rooftop leasing.
• 54:41
  Most of the time you're in the middle of a field in the middle
• 54:43
  of nowhere. So yeah, you definitely you can
• 54:47
  get into some predicaments. So yeah, that's why I know.
• 54:51
  And anyway, Texas operates, I don't care.
• 54:53
  I just. Shoot you right?
• 54:55
  Yeah, they're allowed to. Yeah.
• 54:57
  Trespassing. So OK, as an investor, like we,
• 55:03
  my show talks a lot about investments.
• 55:05
  I'm an investor. Audiences are investors when I
• 55:08
  hear about the risks in oil, right?
• 55:10
  Like there's always these shiny potential returns and they
• 55:12
  almost seem too good to be true. But then you hear some of like
• 55:15
  the downside risk. So what are the risks?
• 55:19
  Because there's, there's a higher chance of losing your
• 55:21
  money from what I've heard then like if you're investing in a
• 55:24
  real estate deal, which in real estate deal, there's still a
• 55:26
  chance of losing your money. Everything has a chance of
• 55:28
  losing your money. A lot of people have been losing
• 55:29
  their money recently with the commercial real estate space
• 55:32
  because of all the things, the interest rates and adjustable
• 55:34
  rates and and camp rates, you know, going up and vacancies
• 55:38
  going up, all the things but and oil, what is the risk?
• 55:41
  And like what is the likelihood of that happening?
• 55:45
  Like what is a bad date? What's the chance of a deal
• 55:47
  going bad and you lose money? A lot of bad deals.
• 55:50
  I always say you got to invest in the person, not the deal
• 55:53
  that. Means that on the jockey, not
• 55:54
  the horse. Correct.
• 55:55
  And that is 100% true. You're not most people are just
• 56:00
  out for the dollar. You got to find somebody who's
• 56:02
  trustworthy, that cares about and, and, and my investors, they
• 56:06
  know that. So they, I would say, so a
• 56:08
  typical deal, the way you can lose money is, you know, their
• 56:12
  investors are usually clueless to, even if they own the
• 56:15
  minerals. So somebody could take their
• 56:17
  money and you wouldn't know. So they don't show you where
• 56:19
  it's been filed. They don't show you a link to
• 56:21
  where you can verify where it's been filed.
• 56:24
  Every state these days have a link to see where you can see
• 56:27
  where it went into you, where you know what's been going on.
• 56:30
  If they're not, they should be showing you how how did they
• 56:35
  price this? A lot of people get taken.
• 56:39
  In fact, I could know a person that does this all the time.
• 56:42
  He'll come up with a like a drilling to that they're going
• 56:45
  to drill $1,000,000. Well, well guess what, he'll
• 56:48
  he'll charge $1.5 million and so he'll just pocket the 500,000.
• 56:53
  And the way that you can see that is I can go on there and
• 56:57
  look at what he's producing. So when he tells me how much
• 56:59
  he's raised and, and I was like, well, he's raised this, but this
• 57:04
  is I can pull all his wells into a spreadsheet and I can come out
• 57:08
  with a formula to tell what he's made to the dollar and I can
• 57:11
  show that. And there's no way that he's
• 57:14
  returning a in a dime to his investors.
• 57:18
  So somebody who's new would know any of that the way I do it,
• 57:23
  which is well, I think it's the best way because or I would do
• 57:27
  it a different way, but way we do it, there's the more longer
• 57:31
  you hold something, there's more risk involved.
• 57:34
  And so I'm going my vision and somebody else's, which there
• 57:37
  there's a lot of people would disagree with me even in my own
• 57:40
  industry because they want to own it and they want to keep it.
• 57:43
  But when I saw that there's it's hard to it's called depletion is
• 57:49
  what we call something that would be like to you of a
• 57:52
  offsetting debt. It's called depletion and well,
• 57:55
  yeah, so depletion and depreciation, same thing, but
• 57:59
  it's not as good as real estate is.
• 58:01
  So the reason that the way I, I buy it and I, the way that I
• 58:06
  offset the liability is is this. I buy it, I know I'm going to
• 58:10
  sell it to one of ten groups. I'm going to sell it.
• 58:14
  I'm going to take it in, I'm going to buy the asset and then
• 58:16
  I'm going to sell probably within four days to a month
• 58:20
  afterwards. I'm going to sell.
• 58:22
  I'll keep some 'cause you can keep minerals and not get taxed
• 58:25
  on, if I buy 100 acres, I sell you 95.
• 58:30
  They're not going to see that there's just five acres taken
• 58:32
  out because it looks like the transaction was almost similar.
• 58:35
  So, but the way that we make it to where there's no liability is
• 58:39
  we know we're going to sell it. So now is there's a, there's a,
• 58:43
  a warranty problem. So warranty in oil and gas.
• 58:46
  And then there's two things that are great about oil and gas to
• 58:50
  warranty. We do you do a general warranty,
• 58:53
  We do what's called a buy through and under warranty.
• 58:56
  That means I'm only warranting it during the time I possess it.
• 58:59
  A full warranty means I warranted all the way back to
• 59:02
  when it became a mineral. So we, we make the the miner
• 59:06
  owner warranted full into us and then we do a buy through and
• 59:09
  under warranty going out. The other thing is that's
• 59:12
  fascinating about oil and gas that you'll find particularly
• 59:15
  interesting is let's just say that that Hannah is a mineral
• 59:19
  owner and you owned minerals and they drilled a well on your
• 59:23
  property on January 5th this year and it was a great well.
• 59:28
  It made 250,000 barrels to date. I can say, Hannah, you haven't
• 59:33
  gotten paid because you you're intestate.
• 59:36
  So you have what's called refutable title and we have to
• 59:40
  make it marketable title you have.
• 59:42
  But what I can go and buy Hannah's minerals.
• 59:46
  So I give her an inflated, inflated price and I say you're
• 59:50
  never going to get paid for as long as you live on this
• 59:52
  property because it's refutable. They'll only do marketable.
• 59:55
  Marketable means that you have to probate this estate.
• 59:58
  You have to, so you have to do that.
• 1:00:00
  People aren't willing to do that.
• 1:00:01
  They have a lot of different probates they're going to have
• 1:00:03
  to do. So I'll go do it.
• 1:00:05
  We can move. You have on in real estate, you
• 1:00:08
  have what's called an execution date.
• 1:00:11
  I have what's called an effective date, which is big in
• 1:00:14
  oil and gas 'cause I can move the effective date 30 years
• 1:00:17
  back. I can move it to January 4th.
• 1:00:20
  So I capture all that production.
• 1:00:23
  So so in order to give her top price.
• 1:00:26
  Like for me to pay you the top scale minerals and not having to
• 1:00:29
  factor in what how much has been exhausted from the wellbore.
• 1:00:32
  I say I'll move the effective date back to here where I can
• 1:00:35
  give you this higher price you won't have to worry about.
• 1:00:38
  So it might move it from if it's already been drilled, I might be
• 1:00:42
  only paying 1000 fifteen, $100.00 an acre.
• 1:00:44
  But if we move it back to where I capture it now, I'm paying
• 1:00:47
  $5000 or it could be anything. So real estate is always divided
• 1:00:52
  and it has a special place in planet Earth, right?
• 1:00:56
  Well, if you, let's say you died and you had three sisters, your
• 1:00:59
  father died when he, if he owns 100 acres, well, you guys own
• 1:01:04
  100 acres, but no one, it's not specific to what it's it's not
• 1:01:08
  specific. So each of y'all own 1/3 of 100.
• 1:01:10
  So that's how minerals are done. You don't have to have it's a
• 1:01:14
  it's called divided mineral interest and undivided.
• 1:01:17
  So minerals are undivided and surfaces divided.
• 1:01:20
  So we don't have to really look on where the exact location is,
• 1:01:24
  just as long as it's inside the unit.
• 1:01:26
  OK, so third grade in dollars. OK, third grade in dollars.
• 1:01:30
  Yeah, because so much of this is like right over the head and I'm
• 1:01:34
  not going to start an oil and gas company.
• 1:01:36
  I mean, I wish I could. It sounds like there's a lot of
• 1:01:38
  money in it, third grade dollars.
• 1:01:39
  So ultimately, how is someone making money and how much money
• 1:01:44
  could they make if they do well in oil as a passive investor?
• 1:01:47
  Let's say you invested $1,000,000 and you just rolled
• 1:01:50
  it kept on rolling it over you would make depending on the
• 1:01:53
  investment you're going to you can long as the market and all
• 1:01:58
  these things are just normal. You would you would be you'd
• 1:02:02
  probably triple your investment and after a three-year
• 1:02:05
  investment. So most of the time if I was
• 1:02:08
  going to buy $1,000,000 of of minerals and then you wanted to
• 1:02:13
  and you were just part of the system, you would probably on
• 1:02:16
  $1,000,000 in minerals. If we purchased them, you'd
• 1:02:19
  probably make a return of almost like you'd make about a 10th
• 1:02:24
  every every 10 months. So every month you'd make a 10%
• 1:02:28
  back on your investment every month.
• 1:02:30
  Every month. Every month.
• 1:02:32
  So that's those are the way, you know, if I was investing
• 1:02:35
  $1,000,000 and that's I would have $1,000,000 back or double
• 1:02:39
  my investment in 10 months. Do you get cash flow quickly
• 1:02:42
  like that or? You can depends on if you want
• 1:02:44
  to keep the minerals. So if you want to keep the
• 1:02:46
  minerals, your cash flow modules are going to be a little bit
• 1:02:50
  different depending on how many wells are drilled.
• 1:02:52
  So on well one you're going to reach so fascinatingly enough,
• 1:02:56
  make it simple math back to the napkin.
• 1:02:58
  For every of 100,000 wells drilled, it makes $1000 per net
• 1:03:01
  mineral acre. So 100,000 barrel well makes
• 1:03:04
  $1000 per net mineral acre on $72 oil.
• 1:03:08
  So we're way above that right now, but that's how you can do
• 1:03:11
  back to the napkin math. So right now with oil prices
• 1:03:14
  crazy for 5 bucks a gallon in Scottsdale for unleaded.
• 1:03:18
  So I think the G wagon's like 6 bucks a gallon.
• 1:03:22
  You guys are doing really good. It's.
• 1:03:24
  Weird. Everybody thinks that the
• 1:03:25
  problem in so in grasslands does really well because the more oil
• 1:03:30
  companies want to buy want to want us to do stuff.
• 1:03:33
  Firethorn actually is is hurts a little bit during this time
• 1:03:37
  because every miner owner thinks they're going to be Jed
• 1:03:40
  Clampett. They're going to, they're going
• 1:03:42
  to shoot. You know, they're, they're.
• 1:03:43
  Their prices are high. They want more.
• 1:03:45
  Money, they want more money, yeah.
• 1:03:47
  So it it and it's we'll give them more money, but it's like
• 1:03:51
  they don't understand. So we have to educate them that
• 1:03:54
  they think that if the the wells that we look at usually make
• 1:03:58
  around 250,000 barrels, well that's $2500 a mineral acre
• 1:04:02
  we're going to get back on return, return.
• 1:04:04
  So they'll want 10,000 well. Now you've got to have four
• 1:04:07
  wells which they're not going to drill.
• 1:04:09
  So there's that's called an increased density report.
• 1:04:12
  So you see how many wells they're going to drill, they're
• 1:04:15
  usually going to be about two or three.
• 1:04:17
  So in order for us to make a return, if they only drill 2,
• 1:04:20
  that's going to be close to, you know, 4 or $5000 for us to get a
• 1:04:24
  return. If we're hoping, my investors
• 1:04:27
  are hoping, I don't have really hope because we pass it on
• 1:04:29
  through to them. If they drill three wells, they
• 1:04:32
  make an investment. So we pay them upfront for
• 1:04:34
  $500,000 or 400,000 barrels upfront, which makes it a really
• 1:04:40
  good deal for them. We rarely get beat on price and.
• 1:04:44
  How much of investor capital have you raised for in oil and
• 1:04:47
  minerals? Not as much as I haven't been
• 1:04:50
  finding stuff, but it's a, we've done about $500 million for
• 1:04:56
  that. 500. Million and that we didn't
• 1:04:58
  deploy all of it. So we started with a 250 million
• 1:05:01
  and we did another 250 million. We didn't deploy it.
• 1:05:05
  I actually did not enjoy it. And the reason I didn't enjoy
• 1:05:09
  it, it was with private equity. I I'm, I'm.
• 1:05:12
  Yeah, you work for the man. I do it was, you know, they
• 1:05:16
  don't really care what you have to say.
• 1:05:17
  They really don't want to hear any opinions and they just want
• 1:05:20
  you to go do this and this is what you're going to do.
• 1:05:22
  So I, I've since never worked with them again unless I'm
• 1:05:27
  selling them something. So I only work with with family
• 1:05:31
  office. Right.
• 1:05:32
  Only so how, how did you? And we will touch on premium
• 1:05:35
  finance too, because I want to learn about, about that.
• 1:05:39
  There's so many things I want to talk about, but we only have 20
• 1:05:41
  more minutes here or less. So anyway, when you told me that
• 1:05:46
  you made four phone calls or whatever you said and raised a
• 1:05:50
  billion dollars. So how the hell did you do that?
• 1:05:53
  How have you built relationships with these people?
• 1:05:55
  Because you you said you didn't really come from a lot of money,
• 1:05:59
  but your grant, but you did have some land.
• 1:06:01
  So yeah. Anyway, how did you build a
• 1:06:02
  relationship? So for somebody that's out there
• 1:06:04
  that wants to raise capital, they want to expand their
• 1:06:07
  business, whether they're in real estate or oil and gas or
• 1:06:09
  whatever they're in. What advice do you have for like
• 1:06:12
  how you built those relationships and were able to
• 1:06:14
  raise so much capital and build that amount of trust with very,
• 1:06:17
  very sophisticated high net worth people and actually
• 1:06:20
  deliver on that? Because obviously you couldn't
• 1:06:22
  raise a billion dollars before phone calls if you wouldn't
• 1:06:24
  deliver and have the trust. So first I hired a coach, I
• 1:06:27
  heard Paul Martinelli when I first got, which is John
• 1:06:30
  Maxwell's right hand man. I hired him when I first got
• 1:06:32
  started and I had zero clue. I didn't know how to, I know I
• 1:06:35
  didn't know the words or anything else.
• 1:06:38
  But you know, it's when you go in there, I couldn't talk
• 1:06:40
  finance terms or anything. So I had to learn those first.
• 1:06:42
  So I had to get educated on the way that they speak, what they
• 1:06:46
  look at. And so I just happened to, we
• 1:06:49
  did a lot of deals with a lot of family offices that buy minerals
• 1:06:54
  and they got used to deal. I mean, we do, you know, 60 to
• 1:06:58
  100 deals with different family offices every month.
• 1:07:02
  So in your land deal where you're where you're finding land
• 1:07:07
  with minerals or you're negotiating with the owners of
• 1:07:09
  the mineral rights, how are you finding your clients that were
• 1:07:12
  the family offices? It was simple.
• 1:07:15
  I just saw that they were transacting and I just called
• 1:07:18
  them and that's. How?
• 1:07:22
  I called them up and at first they didn't want, they wouldn't
• 1:07:25
  take my phone calls. And so the, what I did was I
• 1:07:28
  just got right in the middle of the, where they were trying to
• 1:07:30
  buy and I just got in there and bought it.
• 1:07:33
  And then I, I figured that they would come around eventually and
• 1:07:37
  they started to see that we were real and we started to do lots
• 1:07:41
  of transactions. So the first thing I do is I
• 1:07:45
  want to look at an area that is, is that is real prevalent with a
• 1:07:50
  bunch of oil well or rigs on it. The second thing I want to know
• 1:07:54
  is who am I going to be selling to?
• 1:07:56
  And it's really now down to how easy are they to work with.
• 1:07:59
  So any area that we've gone to, we've been really blessed to be
• 1:08:03
  able to. Now I just pick up the phone,
• 1:08:05
  say, Hey, we've, we've we're going to most of the what we
• 1:08:09
  call in. Buyers are going to want us to,
• 1:08:12
  they don't really want to go with the hustle and bustle, you
• 1:08:14
  know, doing the ground game. And I, we know how to do that.
• 1:08:17
  We also own a land service company.
• 1:08:19
  So most other acquisition companies don't they third party
• 1:08:22
  that out. Well, I make it into a nice bow
• 1:08:25
  because I give you an ownership report, a run sheet and a
• 1:08:30
  supportive docs behind it. So you don't have to go and make
• 1:08:33
  an expense of running all the title.
• 1:08:35
  I've already done it and I just wrap it up in a bow and send it
• 1:08:37
  to you. And that's here's here's what we
• 1:08:39
  have. Here's the validation.
• 1:08:41
  You can go through it and makes it to where they don't.
• 1:08:43
  They don't have to run title for a month.
• 1:08:44
  We've already done it. They can do it in three hours
• 1:08:47
  and they can close. So they knew I operated like
• 1:08:50
  that. So once I started really doing
• 1:08:54
  it with a few of them, then it started to get more and more and
• 1:08:56
  I get calls all the time for people who want us to, to really
• 1:09:00
  get deals for them. And then they they tell their
• 1:09:03
  friends and it's all yeah. And one thing turned leads to
• 1:09:06
  another. How'd you shift into a premium?
• 1:09:09
  Because like, you're a serial entrepreneur, most people have a
• 1:09:11
  hard time just having one successful company.
• 1:09:13
  And then you've net, you know, you have multiple successful
• 1:09:16
  companies now. And they're not necessarily the
• 1:09:18
  same types of companies. Like they're not necessarily
• 1:09:20
  vertically integrated. Like premium finance insurance
• 1:09:23
  is very different oil and gas and I think you're even in an
• 1:09:25
  opposite thing of like carbon credits and environmental stuff,
• 1:09:28
  which is, but let's talk about freemium finance.
• 1:09:31
  So what's the business model there?
• 1:09:33
  How did you get into it? And that's where you raised a
• 1:09:35
  billion dollars, but it sounds like you raised that money from
• 1:09:37
  your oil and gas connections. So I look for niches.
• 1:09:42
  You know, that's one of the things that not everybody's
• 1:09:45
  doing it and the do it did I look for the way to do it that's
• 1:09:49
  structured with the smallest amount of liability.
• 1:09:52
  Those that's the key to what I look for.
• 1:09:54
  And I probably learned that through Paul Martinelli and a
• 1:09:57
  lot of other people just by I always have to talk to these
• 1:10:02
  these guys who are billionaires or that are very wealthy.
• 1:10:04
  And so I'd talk to them all the time and they really just
• 1:10:07
  sitting, I'm not, I'm just sitting there asking them
• 1:10:08
  questions because it's obvious they know more about it than me.
• 1:10:12
  So I feel, I feel like it's a goldmine and a blessing that I
• 1:10:15
  get to sit here and ask this guy, how in the world did you
• 1:10:18
  create $4.5 billion of, of a net worth?
• 1:10:21
  And they're really, really not. So everybody that I do business
• 1:10:24
  with are kind people. They always deliver on their
• 1:10:27
  word and their name means as much to them as mine does.
• 1:10:29
  So those are the criterias of of actually doing business.
• 1:10:33
  We've had a few, had one last week that called me up.
• 1:10:35
  He was arrogant, didn't and so and I was like, you know what, I
• 1:10:39
  don't really care how much money you get, I'm not going to do any
• 1:10:41
  business with you, so don't call me anymore.
• 1:10:42
  That's it. So just eradicated him right off
• 1:10:45
  the list and so. Not misalignment of values.
• 1:10:47
  That's what I was talking about. I've ever misaligned.
• 1:10:50
  It's going to be chaos anyway. It's going to end a disaster.
• 1:10:52
  It's not worth. It yeah, I loved your quote.
• 1:10:54
  If it's not a hard yes, it's a hell no.
• 1:10:57
  Yeah. So we wrote that down.
• 1:10:59
  That's that's at the office now. Good.
• 1:11:01
  Yeah, it's funny. I did that talk again and and
• 1:11:04
  they made T-shirts that said if it's not a hell yes, it's a hard
• 1:11:08
  no. And like everyone has these
• 1:11:09
  T-shirts now with it plastered all over it.
• 1:11:11
  Yeah, that's. Excellent.
• 1:11:12
  That's excellent. No.
• 1:11:14
  So when I started, what was the question?
• 1:11:16
  It was how? Do I Oh yeah, premium finance
• 1:11:18
  because you're, I mean, you already have a successful
• 1:11:20
  company. So we gave you that and and
• 1:11:22
  what's the the business model there?
• 1:11:24
  You know, this was brought to me by what was a really close
• 1:11:29
  friend. And unfortunately through this
• 1:11:31
  whole process, it's, we are, I'm buying him out.
• 1:11:35
  But I saw he told me about it. It was, it's where you, let's
• 1:11:42
  just say you had $1,000,000. You're a, a company like a tow
• 1:11:45
  truck company and a oil and gas company.
• 1:11:47
  They have to pay a lot of premiums because they're high
• 1:11:49
  risk. So they don't want to take away
• 1:11:52
  all this capital because they need it for their everyday
• 1:11:55
  business. We would go in, we'd pay 80% and
• 1:12:00
  then they would have 10 payments and we'd have that delivered in
• 1:12:03
  seven days. And so it's great for them
• 1:12:06
  because they don't have to pay, you know, some of these guys had
• 1:12:09
  to pay $10 million in tax and, and, or in insurance upfront.
• 1:12:13
  So we were, I knew about it. He had some people that he knew
• 1:12:17
  that came in and taught me about it and took about six months of
• 1:12:21
  research to actually understand it.
• 1:12:25
  So we can, we funded it. We, we started doing it.
• 1:12:29
  There has been some headaches on that one.
• 1:12:31
  That's part, but it's about to get fixed.
• 1:12:33
  We're about to do a buyout. But what it does is we, we
• 1:12:36
  average about 14% APR. We don't charge any points and
• 1:12:41
  we fund this in, in less than 7 days.
• 1:12:44
  Sometimes it takes us three days, sometimes it takes us four
• 1:12:46
  or five. But we fund it.
• 1:12:48
  You're good to go. You have make 10 payments.
• 1:12:50
  It's you, you send this in and, and we've set up the entire
• 1:12:54
  office to make this flow. So there's a lot of, there's a
• 1:12:57
  major need for that. You know, I didn't even know
• 1:13:01
  that world existed. And he brought it to me and he
• 1:13:03
  was like, we need a lot of capital to to raise this.
• 1:13:07
  And I said, well, how much do we need?
• 1:13:09
  He was like, we'll probably need like a billion dollars.
• 1:13:12
  And I was like. Why did you need so much to get
• 1:13:14
  it going? Well, I funded the company, so
• 1:13:18
  the billion dollars doesn't go for operations.
• 1:13:20
  I funded the 100% of operations myself.
• 1:13:24
  So we needed a lot because the gentleman that was coming on, he
• 1:13:28
  did 100 and we didn't need it that much, but we needed
• 1:13:31
  something to tell us that this is how much money we could have
• 1:13:34
  if we got there. So the investor doesn't just
• 1:13:37
  hand over a billion dollars and it sits in an account.
• 1:13:40
  We mostly invoice and then, so I'll send out an e-mail.
• 1:13:44
  Hey, we funded $1,000,000 deal. Hey, we funded a $20,000 deal.
• 1:13:47
  Hey, we funded a $200,000 deal. He wires the money like this,
• 1:13:50
  but we were good at the contract reads.
• 1:13:53
  We can go all the way up to a billion dollars and he'll fund
• 1:13:55
  it. So when I called him, I called
• 1:13:58
  1. Oh, this is one capital source.
• 1:14:00
  One capital source, but I called 5 so I had three people.
• 1:14:04
  So the first guy like I, I do the whole presentation.
• 1:14:08
  I did the presentation with five family offices and so the first
• 1:14:12
  guy went for a billion. Unfortunately the two, two
• 1:14:16
  others went for 500 million. Well, the first guy in seat
• 1:14:20
  position, he said I don't want anybody else on this.
• 1:14:22
  So I had to call back these two family offices and say we can't
• 1:14:26
  take your capital at this point. At this point in that we we
• 1:14:29
  don't need it. So what was the upside for them?
• 1:14:32
  Like what what? What's the downside risk and
• 1:14:35
  what's their return? Well, it's great.
• 1:14:37
  So they get a, you know, you get a, he gets a there.
• 1:14:40
  The risk is the key part for some of the family offices that
• 1:14:43
  I deal with. So there's really less than
• 1:14:46
  about a 2% risk factor. So meaning that really out of a,
• 1:14:52
  out of 50 policies, you might have one that doesn't actually
• 1:14:55
  make it so. So it's less than one.
• 1:14:58
  It's, it's closer to 1 than it is 2.
• 1:15:01
  But so that's the best thing. When, when I go into it, the
• 1:15:04
  first thing we look at is risk exposure.
• 1:15:06
  That's that is it. So and then the he's gets a
• 1:15:09
  guaranteed return of a set amount of a percentage of the
• 1:15:14
  actual loan policy. Because you guys are charging
• 1:15:16
  14%, correct and then you probably like split with them.
• 1:15:20
  So, right, But why did you need a billion dollars upfront or I
• 1:15:25
  mean you said you call it, but you guys can do a billion
• 1:15:28
  dollars of Lee's loans? Wow.
• 1:15:30
  So the guy that we hired to work for us, he did $119 million of
• 1:15:34
  loans just in his last company, but his book size was 957
• 1:15:38
  million. So we knew just him.
• 1:15:41
  You know, we would we needed somebody because it's it's hard.
• 1:15:45
  We weren't he wanted to take the whole the entire investment.
• 1:15:50
  So we didn't need a billion dollars upfront.
• 1:15:52
  All we needed though is somebody that we knew that if we got
• 1:15:55
  there. So I mean, there's companies
• 1:15:57
  that compete with us. They have, I mean IPFS, they
• 1:16:01
  they do thirty, $35 billion in transactions every year.
• 1:16:05
  How are you marketing for it? We haven't marketed a single Oz
• 1:16:09
  yet because we've been kind of handcuffed because of the the
• 1:16:13
  tension between me and the other.
• 1:16:14
  Party the buyout and all that, yeah.
• 1:16:16
  That's been a, a major, a major point of contention.
• 1:16:20
  He we had an agreement he was going to reimburse didn't
• 1:16:24
  happen. So, and, and then unfortunately
• 1:16:27
  he was a really good friend. So it was, it was something that
• 1:16:31
  when he told me that he wasn't going to pay me back, I, I said,
• 1:16:34
  this will probably cost the friendship right here.
• 1:16:37
  And so it was, you know, that was, that was really tough to
• 1:16:40
  stomach because he was my golfing buddy and, and I really
• 1:16:44
  wanted him to, to be more successful.
• 1:16:46
  And so the operating agreement, even though I made it, it was
• 1:16:51
  probably the worst operating agreement I've ever signed.
• 1:16:53
  And I gave him 50% of the company and that I would pay all
• 1:16:58
  expenses for the company to March 1st and then I would raise
• 1:17:02
  all the capital for the cap. So it was a really, really great
• 1:17:05
  contract for him, bad for me. And I was sad to see that that.
• 1:17:09
  Happened. Why?
• 1:17:09
  Why did he screw that up? I don't have any idea why he
• 1:17:13
  screwed it up. So that was but you know when
• 1:17:17
  you have that door closed And I was like depressed about it and
• 1:17:20
  I had some resentments that were going on and but I ended up
• 1:17:26
  levelling up to better partners. And so that's.
• 1:17:30
  New doors. Open Yep, new doors opened.
• 1:17:33
  I think it'll These guys are really good at running
• 1:17:36
  operations and and they kind of just want me to raise capital
• 1:17:41
  and that's kind of that's they're way better than I am in
• 1:17:44
  operations. So raising capital doesn't sound
• 1:17:47
  too bad. Yeah, operations aren't normally
• 1:17:49
  a founder, visionary strong suit.
• 1:17:52
  No, it's not. Not mine.
• 1:17:53
  Yeah, it's not mine either. I freaking hate operations so
• 1:17:57
  but thank God who not how there's people out there that
• 1:18:00
  are amazing at it and they are. Yeah, I have a great team.
• 1:18:04
  My, my CEO is phenomenal. My, my God, love my assistant.
• 1:18:11
  She's spectacular. So she is.
• 1:18:15
  How many employees do you have or team members?
• 1:18:17
  About 100. Across all the companies, That's
• 1:18:20
  insane. It's a lot.
• 1:18:22
  And you're and you, yeah, you own all of them.
• 1:18:24
  Wow, that's a lot. Yeah.
• 1:18:26
  It's are you all in office or remote or?
• 1:18:28
  No, they're all well. There's like 4.
• 1:18:30
  I work with Beckett and there's not not.
• 1:18:33
  This will amaze you, but Ardmore doesn't have that big of a job
• 1:18:35
  pool so. Yeah, I don't even know what
• 1:18:38
  Ardmore is. It's it's, it's about 30,000
• 1:18:41
  people. So most of the people in oil and
• 1:18:43
  gas, they. They all work for you.
• 1:18:45
  They all work for remote, you know, from their house and so
• 1:18:47
  they can sit in their underwear and run titles.
• 1:18:49
  So yours are remote, Yeah. And that works well for you?
• 1:18:53
  Yeah, I I have remote teams too, and I think it's the new way of
• 1:18:56
  doing it. You know, back in the day you
• 1:18:58
  had to send them to the project area, which is out in sometimes
• 1:19:02
  the most desolate places in the United States.
• 1:19:05
  Cell phones don't work and because they have to run the
• 1:19:07
  title inside, but now it's digitized.
• 1:19:09
  So that was that's something that's changed during my
• 1:19:11
  lifetime. So when I started and back in
• 1:19:14
  2000, early 2000s, I started and we had to go physically drive to
• 1:19:20
  the courthouse every day to run the title.
• 1:19:23
  Thank God that that doesn't happen anymore.
• 1:19:25
  I mean, student title companies will be gone completely.
• 1:19:27
  There's already a property that's no, it's like a
• 1:19:31
  blockchain title. So it's, yeah, it's exciting
• 1:19:35
  what's happening there. But well, I always like to end
• 1:19:37
  with School Hard Knocks, rapid fire questions.
• 1:19:40
  You know what School Hard Knocks is, right?
• 1:19:41
  I think. Maybe the guy that interviews
• 1:19:43
  people? Oh, I haven't ever seen it.
• 1:19:44
  You haven't. No, Oh my gosh, no.
• 1:19:47
  I'll send you mine here. Oh yeah, yeah, dude, the guy
• 1:19:49
  that. James.
• 1:19:50
  Yeah. He interviewed me.
• 1:19:51
  He. Yeah, you're.
• 1:19:52
  Stepping out of your car. Yes, OK.
• 1:19:53
  So that's. I didn't know that that was his
• 1:19:56
  name. But yeah, that's his channels.
• 1:19:58
  Yeah, he's good. He's really good.
• 1:20:00
  But he is. Yeah, he's great.
• 1:20:01
  OK How old are you when you became a millionaire 31 line of
• 1:20:05
  business? Are you a?
• 1:20:05
  Oil and gas and finance. What's the most amount of money
• 1:20:08
  you made in a single year? Probably like 13 million.
• 1:20:11
  Dang, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
• 1:20:14
  Via your name over any transaction.
• 1:20:16
  If you had to name one of your biggest regrets, what would it
• 1:20:18
  be? Probably going into partnerships
• 1:20:22
  with my close friends. Who is your hero and why?
• 1:20:26
  Probably. My grandfather, he was just
• 1:20:29
  somebody who I just strive to be like.
• 1:20:32
  He's he's just full in character.
• 1:20:35
  His character is always intact and he knows his core values
• 1:20:38
  very well. If you could send one message to
• 1:20:40
  the younger generation, what would it be?
• 1:20:42
  I would say that get around to, if you're the smartest in the
• 1:20:46
  room, get out of the room, find somebody who knows what they do
• 1:20:49
  that that cares about you, that's in it for you.
• 1:20:52
  Get with them. Then let them show you how to
• 1:20:54
  grow and do that over and over throughout your career.
• 1:20:57
  What's the most important thing when it comes to raising
• 1:20:59
  capital? Honesty, integrity, delivering
• 1:21:02
  on your word well and knowing your liability structures and
• 1:21:04
  how much, how much exposure you have, those would be the top.
• 1:21:09
  What's the number one book everyone should read?
• 1:21:11
  Probably the Bible. And if you could send one
• 1:21:14
  message to your younger self, what would it say?
• 1:21:16
  Probably you're enough. You're amazing.
• 1:21:18
  Thank you for coming on the show.
• 1:21:19
  Thank you so much for having me.