Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster Season Ten (featuring Jack Coyer & Jon Arnold)

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Strictly Come Hamster Season Ten (featuring Jack Coyer & Jon Arnold) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:34
Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster.
0:37
My name is Joe Ford and Ross, I've got a point I'd like to
0:43
make to you immediately before we go any further.
0:46
My life at your command, Sir. The contestants on Strictly Come
0:51
Hamster are usually a bit more intelligent than Wilkes.
0:57
Oh, excellent start as we mean to carry on.
1:01
I know we've got two of the bradiest ones here as well off.
1:03
We I know this, this could probably be a long podcast.
1:06
Not that the others have been particularly short.
1:09
Well, over to you. Thank you very much.
1:11
Well tonight, if that wasn't clue enough, we are covering
1:14
season 10. Jon Pert was Perl.
1:17
Season 10. Season.
1:19
Oh, Joe, that joke's been done. That joke has been done so many
1:22
times. I've just finished watching Fed
1:26
Ice. It's a tradition you've.
1:29
Done that. I did.
1:30
I did right. You've done the right year.
1:32
Yeah, I've done the right year. You.
1:35
So yeah, Pert was penultimate. Yeah.
1:37
And you know what? I was watching this, and because
1:41
you watch things differently when you're preparing for
1:42
Strictly, don't you look through a more critical eye.
1:45
And I was watching this and I was absolutely bloody disgusted
1:49
by this. I mean, what the hell is going
1:52
on? You've got thinly veiled
1:54
political allegory, you've got discussion of illegal
1:57
immigrants, you've got workers rights.
1:59
They talk in Polari. That's the carnival language
2:02
that was adopted by gay people in the 1960s.
2:05
I mean it's disgusting. On top of that anti war
2:09
environmental messages being rammed down your throat left
2:12
right and centre. I'm off to YouTube to leave a
2:15
rant video. Absolutely bloody disgusting
2:18
and. Then when people.
2:20
Don't like it? You can say you've been hacked
2:23
by. An.
2:23
Irishman by an Irishman, Yeah. I mean, come on, people.
2:26
You complain about Doctor Who today.
2:28
I think the themes have always been there.
2:30
So what? Has happened to the magic of
2:33
Doctor Who? I think we established the other
2:36
week it departed 5:45 on the 23rd of November 1963.
2:40
That's. Right.
2:42
We've not been happy since. Well, we've we're never happy
2:44
with Doctor Who fans. I'm not going to wrap the.
2:47
Pilot episode. Let's face it.
2:49
Oh, that's, that's a good point. Yeah.
2:50
We should have checked out then, shouldn't we?
2:51
The originals not as good as the pilot.
2:54
Never made it to. Eggs.
2:57
But come on, let's get into it. And to sort out our condom
3:00
filled maggots from our hairy testicular monster, we're joined
3:04
by two very special guests. Is that what your testicles?
3:07
Look like. Well, you you said yours on
3:09
season 17 look like the. Wolfweed so.
3:11
Well, the older I get, yeah. So I don't mind looking like an
3:16
old grown God, even if it is only from the waist down.
3:21
So our guests are going to help us decide which story's going to
3:23
be lifting the cursion glitter ball and which will be swallowed
3:26
dramatic pause by a drash egg. So let's meet our guests.
3:31
John, would you like to introduce yourself?
3:34
Yes, on the answer to the question Jr. asked the other
3:36
week of Who is just who is John Arnold?
3:39
I'm usually be fine mediating between Matt and Jr. on
3:43
Strangers in Space and I you may have read one of the black
3:47
archives I wrote way back. Oh my God.
3:50
Wonderful. And can you also clear up some
3:54
confusion, John? Are you one of the many husbands
3:56
of Riversong, I mean Joe Ford? Oh, totally.
4:00
Excellent. Yes, there's many of them out
4:02
there, I have to tell you. Yes, we we do early week and
4:06
then the others are late week. We haven't got the time for your
4:08
weekday. It's great.
4:10
You get the best of me before I get tired by the Sunday, you
4:12
know? I don't think we wish to know
4:15
any further. And Jack, would you like to
4:19
introduce yourself? Hello, I'm Jack Claire.
4:22
I've been, well, I've not been many books, but I have been on
4:29
Hamster with Penknife twice doing Being Quite Dead,
4:34
everyone's favorite doctor story, and The Edge of
4:37
Destruction, everyone's other favorite doctor story.
4:41
And yeah, now I'm here talking about some pretty well
4:46
celebrated Dr. so it should hopefully be much easier.
4:50
We have. We have also covered Amy's
4:52
Choice, haven't we? Which hasn't.
4:54
Been released yet and we're about to do a tonne more with
4:57
Stephen Buzvinski. Well planned, but well at the
5:02
moment. Unless Joe gives some of the
5:05
wrong opinions in this episode, in which case they might have.
5:08
Oh. It's highly likely.
5:09
Above all, yeah, yeah, that's just standard, Jack.
5:13
That is just standard, right? So before we get into the see
5:17
the stories themselves, let's just have a quick overview.
5:20
Gentlemen. What do you think about series
5:22
tan season tan even in a nutshell, John.
5:28
It was one of those I didn't kind of think that much.
5:32
It's quite unique in the city's history because it's the only
5:34
time I think you've had three seasons where, you know, the
5:37
star, the companion, the producer and the script editor
5:42
are all the same people. So I'd always had the impression
5:45
it was a bit say me, it was all but you know, oh, here it is and
5:49
just another season of Perk week.
5:51
But you know, re watching it for this and re watching a couple of
5:54
times, particularly with my son who's been re watching it this
5:57
week quite independently of doing this.
6:01
There's so many great things for it.
6:02
You know, this Katie Manning, the theme of independence just
6:05
runs through this entire season. It's, you know, it's one of
6:09
those that I think it's quite easy to underrate because purely
6:14
you can think you're just spending time with John and
6:16
Katie and they could lighten up anything.
6:20
So yeah, it is one of those that's kind of risen a little in
6:24
my estimation overall. Oh, excellent.
6:26
Jack, you've already hinted of the fact that these are this is
6:30
a good year, but. Yeah, I mean it's she's not
6:34
obviously always been quite well celebrated.
6:37
I think the John Perks we're is with most fans.
6:41
I think he's often held up as one of the most consistent
6:44
periods of the show. As John said, that's, you know,
6:49
small part because of how the creative team were and the
6:54
actors were. And this is sort of that, but
6:58
the twilight of the era, I suppose.
6:59
Not not getting for spoilers for where the season goes, but it's
7:04
also more important maybe a 10th, sort of the 10th, the 9th
7:09
slash 10th anniversary of the show.
7:12
And they addressed that by really, you know, looking,
7:18
looking back, both the past and the present and the future of
7:22
Doctor Who. I mean planet, the Daleks and
7:25
the three Doctors very much, you know, picking up a lot of the
7:29
iconography and storytelling conventions of Doctor Who gone
7:34
by Frontier and spaces of addressing the fact that we're
7:39
now going back out into the universe, you know, and you
7:45
know, taking a little bit of time to get there, but
7:47
ultimately showing the sort of places that we can go.
7:52
The Green death obviously touches on a lot of themes that
7:56
are resonant within the era. It's, you know, very put site,
8:03
you know, Jumper 3 unit story and the common of the monsters
8:09
is really Robert Holmes, obviously the upcoming script
8:14
editor in a couple of years time showing really where the program
8:18
is destined to go in the future. So I think that's the best that
8:23
a Doctor Who anniversary year can do.
8:25
Obviously we just had one recently in real life, but
8:28
that's the best it can do is show where we've been, show what
8:32
the current state of affairs is and therefore points a map to
8:36
where we're going. I hate to disagree with you so
8:39
early in the show, but I'm. Going to.
8:45
Because. Well, no, no, no.
8:46
But the only one thing, because you said that with Robert
8:48
Holmes, is sort of pointing ahead to what's coming.
8:51
Actually, he writes one of the funniest scripts ever in Doctor
8:55
Who this season, and he does it again next season.
8:59
And then he writes three seasons of the bleakest fucking Doctor
9:02
Who you've ever seen in your life.
9:03
It's like, come on, you're so funny.
9:06
Oh, mind you does bow out with talents when you show I Am a
9:08
story we can't talk about anymore.
9:09
That's very, very funny. But I would like to have seen
9:13
more of this in the Hinchcliffe Times Talent.
9:17
Six how do? You How do you feel about the
9:20
series though, Joe? Oh yeah, I feel sorry.
9:23
I've got to give an opinion, don't I?
9:24
I love it. This is my favorite Jon poetry
9:27
season, actually, by country mile.
9:29
Mostly because I think it all of it is just vastly entertaining.
9:34
To quote Jon Pertwee, it's incorrigibly frivolous in places
9:38
and I love it. Colourful stories, social
9:41
commentary, lots of wit, lots of style, lots of money on the
9:45
screen in places, a tons of action, a doctor with charm and
9:51
an increasingly mature and developing companion.
9:54
I think it's as confident as this era gets.
9:58
And in terms of delivering 25 minutes a week of just riveting
10:04
adventure for kids, I think this is the best of the job per era.
10:08
I love it. Fabulous.
10:10
Yeah, I love this too. I mean, I am as, as we know the
10:13
old get to the podcast. So I was kind of 6 going into
10:16
seven when this. Thank you, Joe.
10:18
Six to seven when this launched. Six or seventy was it?
10:22
Did you say Rob? 60 to 70.
10:25
Was that John? I I can't hear you.
10:27
Sorry. You're just you're just being
10:28
removed from this call. I thought you were going to be
10:31
polite then and said I can't believe you were around when
10:33
this was transmitted. Thank you for I can't.
10:35
Believe you were around when this was transmitted.
10:39
Fucking Elcho tried to be a bit more convincing, for Christ's
10:42
sake. Yeah, I was, funnily enough
10:46
around when this came out and Oh my God, I love that.
10:48
I mean, this is perfect for kids, isn't it?
10:50
I mean, I'm not just distracting from the fact that there's a lot
10:53
of themes. There's a lot of stuff for
10:54
adults do, but for kids entertainment, my God, you can't
10:57
beat this. I absolutely lap this up.
11:00
As you said, Joe, 25 minutes a week, every week.
11:03
Jeez. This was absolutely top.
11:06
And and John and Katie, I think you've already touched on it
11:09
already for their relationship and their chemistry here.
11:12
She has got so much as a character.
11:15
She's suddenly so much more independent and they just work
11:19
together. I mean, they are absolute
11:21
gallbusters. Were they?
11:22
Were they at it at this point? Well, it depends if you've been
11:25
listening to Dylan Reece. Well, no, actually I was
11:28
listening to the Toby Hedrick podcast and he seemed to imply
11:31
there is something quite interesting.
11:33
Gana if anyone would know. Well, others are the rumours for
11:38
other people as well, so. Oh.
11:39
Really. Oh, we must talk.
11:42
Yeah. Lifetime warming your slippers.
11:45
You're warming is what, Sir? Anyway.
11:47
Head slippers. Oh, right, sorry, sorry.
11:50
The line went a bit fuzzy at that point.
11:52
Oh, John, I was just going to say, is your headspace supposed
11:55
to be down? You are.
11:57
You've got your headpiece. Up is it?
11:59
Down. Down.
12:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it, it, it. It has a bit of a.
12:03
Problem with it so oh. OK, no worries.
12:05
No worries. Yeah, I can hear you fine.
12:06
Yeah. It's taking you a long time to
12:08
notice that it's up, Joe. You usually notice those things
12:10
straight away. Right.
12:14
May I apologize for Rod? I mean, you can you can talk.
12:21
We'll see. We'll see how much apologizing
12:23
we have to do at the end of this, but it.
12:26
Is opinions. Right.
12:30
So let's go to our listeners comments first of all and see
12:33
what they think of the season as a whole.
12:36
Oh, by the way, if you wish to disagree with the comments as
12:39
you're reading though, please go ahead.
12:41
Insulting the the listeners comments is one of my favorite
12:44
things to do. So should we start?
12:47
John, you look prepped. Do you want to take the first
12:49
one? And then we'll go to Jack.
12:51
Certainly will. All right.
12:52
At first that we have Michael Storm feels like it's paving the
12:57
way for the end of the Purple era.
12:59
The tighter unit has gone. For the first time since the
13:01
Crotons. We will run of stories not set
13:03
on Earth, but the 3rd Doctor. A series of state ventures
13:07
doesn't feel quite right somehow.
13:10
On the other hand, we have a season of strong stories with
13:12
the weakest being a little over average.
13:15
Yeah. I did that.
13:18
I agree with most of that. I'm bringing up the Crotons was
13:22
a bold move, but yeah. The Next up is James Lock.
13:31
This is Ultimate Comfort. Who as cosy and familiar as an
13:35
old pair of pants. To continue the analogy, if you
13:39
inspect them too closely, these pants are all retired and put.
13:44
They're in places a favorite version of the colourful,
13:49
confident pair you first put on only a couple of years earlier.
13:54
Lovely to wear, but not the pants you put on for the first
13:59
day. And like and like most pairs of
14:03
pants, this is men's with the Green Beth.
14:09
What sort of pants do you put on in the first date may I ask?
14:13
Well, none I thought would be a provision, but.
14:17
Depends. If you're at a restaurant, that
14:18
might raise a few eyebrows perhaps, but.
14:21
I do know someone who's got like a good luck pair of pants.
14:24
You know they know they're going to score that night if they're
14:26
wearing those pants. I think it's on Baker pants.
14:30
If. Tom Baker's on your scrote.
14:33
You're. Going to score a.
14:35
Big grin. Then moving swiftly on.
14:41
Took on to the one man bullshit rumour mill.
14:44
Dylan Reese. OK feels like the eunuch family
14:49
are running on empty at this point.
14:50
There's nothing particularly bad about this season, but it feels
14:53
very much like we've seen it all before.
14:56
I can't help but feel Per we should have fagged out about
14:58
season 9 as usual, like TV .2 Dylan's wrong but.
15:03
I mean, what bullshit. Is that he's at his best this
15:07
year, right? I mean, he's, yeah.
15:09
He's not a tall light. Bulb, he glitters.
15:11
Thanks, Tom. Yeah, sorry Dylan, but absolute
15:15
bollocks. More more bollocks than the
15:18
Ogram guard. More bollocks than BBV.
15:24
Oh, okay, I've seen Zygon that yeah, that's a lot of bollocks.
15:31
Stephen B says it's greater than the some of its sometimes meager
15:36
parts. That is in testament to Letts
15:40
and Dicks, craft and TV that was pushing the technical and
15:45
storytelling envelope television at the time.
15:49
A stable of reliable writers aids them in making Doctor Who a
15:54
British staple. But also more mixed comments
15:58
than I was expecting. Yeah, I think as well you should
16:02
mention that directors are all worked on series before, so it's
16:04
not just the writings as well. Well, stable, all righty.
16:10
So Jason Thompson a decent season that sags a bit in the
16:14
middle but has some good comfort.
16:15
Who in it hopefully a man go at the top of the game.
16:18
No, no arguments were on me there.
16:21
So who departed hits as it should.
16:25
So I hope says a solid season contains my two favorite
16:30
poetry's and one of my least favourites.
16:34
So there's a balance. Poetry becomes a doctor I love
16:38
this year, so he gets there in the end.
16:41
I know Carnival of Monsters and The Green Death are his two
16:45
favorite John Perry's stories. So I wonder.
16:47
What his least favorite one is, I know it's.
16:49
Very, very teasy. He doesn't tell us.
16:51
He's just. He's just.
16:52
Going to leave. It I'm wondering if it's
16:53
frontier in space. Goodbye.
16:57
It better not be Planet of the Daleks or we're through.
17:00
Sorry I'm. Making my power.
17:07
OK, so next we have Daniel Knight, probably the Perk V
17:11
season I watch most. It's comfortable and confident
17:15
with two leads that have great chemistry together.
17:18
But there are times when it feels like you could or should
17:21
be so much better. Yes, three doctors.
17:23
I'm looking at you. We'll.
17:28
Look at that. We'll look at that, Paul Smy
17:32
says. A refreshing change to the
17:35
predominantly Earth based stories of the previous three
17:39
years. Colourful and vibrant, partly.
17:43
They're not my favorite doctor. He's probably at his best here.
17:49
How much more smarter is Paul smile than Dylan Reese Every.
17:53
Everyone's smarter than Dylan Reese.
17:55
Come. On Oh, I know, but he's so hot.
17:57
Oh, sorry, John, you're right there.
17:59
Yeah. All right, his Internet staying
18:01
so he's not going to hear this for a while.
18:02
Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's very true.
18:04
I've heard he's always down, but there we go.
18:09
You should see the screen when he's not around.
18:13
OK, The delightful Luke Malloy. One of those classical seasons
18:17
that has a magical feel. Exciting, cosy, fun and flair.
18:22
A glorious high point in the 60 year series.
18:26
That's why it's my favorite home.
18:31
Dan Pin says a warm curdly comfort blanket season with some
18:38
of the most iconic stories of the classic run.
18:41
Love it. I've got to intervene at this
18:43
point we're already on and I've done a little bit of judicial
18:46
sentencing here and there, but fuck me, we're on about the 4th
18:49
use of the word comfort already. The word comfort for this season
18:53
is now banned. Going forward for the rest of
18:56
this episode, there's. Something to comfort who you
18:58
know. We'll get there.
19:01
Cozy. There you go.
19:03
We'll use cozy as cozy. I'm not.
19:07
Sure, that's much better, but anyway.
19:09
Like a. Blanket it.
19:11
Is adequate. That.
19:13
Story we have here. Overall, a fun season if
19:17
afflicted by the usual perfect problem of too many 6 parters.
19:21
A Shane Delgado was cruelly denied a farewell and his last
19:25
scene is bungled as he radiates star quality in every
19:28
performance. The beginning of the end.
19:33
Anthony Cowell says love it. Fun and ambitious. 8 out of 10.
19:41
Oh, okie. Dokie, we have Andy.
19:45
Hang on a second, John. I think Jack might have frozen.
19:49
Oh my God, he's here twice. He.
19:53
Goes again, got three where? Have you seen?
19:56
That yeah, the three corners, therefore we're going.
20:02
Oh. You're my replacement.
20:05
So under the clown, the Dambian one, this Wi-Fi is down.
20:13
I think I'm hopefully patted some at this point.
20:18
No, I meant in this call there's.
20:20
Two windows. Oh, I'm the one who's saying the
20:23
small things. I'm not sure which one the other
20:25
one is. Yeah, we have.
20:26
One that's thick as shit, I'll tell you.
20:28
Yeah, honestly, you are. We got as far as you saying 8
20:32
out of 10 and that's when it cut off.
20:35
OK, well for me this call was let down by my Wi-Fi, but for
20:41
Anthony Carroll, season 10 was only let down by the jail cards
20:47
and the CSO mines. OK, we have Andy Parkinson.
20:53
Perhaps not the strongest overall, but there's a lot to
20:57
love. Tom Newsom says possibly the
21:02
most joyous season of Doctor Whoever.
21:08
And Samuel Barker says really good.
21:11
One of the best seasons of Who? Oh no.
21:17
And because we enjoy a variety of different opinions here, well
21:22
end on LSJ, who has summed it up quite so simply.
21:29
Shit. I was I I wondered if he got
21:33
serious 10 and season 10 models up there because I've never
21:36
heard anyone called season 10 shit before.
21:39
I wouldn't normally. Do this sort of thing, but I
21:41
feel as with a comment that erroneous.
21:44
I need to name and shame LSJ Luke Sims Jenkins from our book
21:50
club. OK so if anyone wants to send
21:52
hate mail, send it to him all. Right.
21:55
Yeah, I I thought you got confused with the Capelli
21:57
season. It was a burner account for the.
22:01
Guilt. Oh Jack.
22:01
Guilty. Oh, you're on the black
22:02
triangles. Popped off again.
22:04
Oh no, really hard disappear. It's time.
22:10
Right, let's get into it. John, would you like to pick
22:14
your first story and give us the three reasons why you are
22:17
championing it or condemning it? Well.
22:21
Being down here in Wales, I really shouldn't pick it
22:23
because, you know, they mispronounced it.
22:25
But let's go with the start at the end.
22:27
Let's go with the green death, shall we?
22:31
Let's go with big one. And despite the fact they can't
22:34
pronounce on Viva, you know, I'm obviously going to champion it
22:38
because let's face it, it's the green death.
22:43
Let's start off Katie Manning. How good is she in this?
22:48
She drives this story, you know, you start out that relationship
22:53
with the doctor, that beautiful kind of thing she's built up
22:56
with Jon Pertwee. You know, the fact they're
22:58
talking over each other, they're just happily in each other's
23:00
company. And then you kind of the way she
23:04
breaks that, that scene breaks that relationship a little.
23:08
That because this, this story is so well written on that.
23:10
It's got that first eve where the doctor's talking about going
23:13
to bed to BS three, and then Joe's talking about going off,
23:16
you know, down to Wales because she's so passionate about hope.
23:20
It's kind of giving you, gives you in that impression.
23:23
Joe's ready to leave. Yeah.
23:25
Honestly, John, you never listened to a word I say.
23:29
Sorry, what? Yeah, the fledgling flying the
23:35
coop and all that. And it's just so, so well done.
23:39
And then the way she interrupted and we obviously we know she was
23:42
off with Stuart Bevan at this point.
23:45
The chemistry is beautiful. The way Stuart Ben's character
23:47
is written as that doctor substitute, the way that
23:51
introduct, the way they meet each other.
23:53
It's called back to Tear of the Autons.
23:55
It's calling back all the way through.
23:57
You know, you had that love affair in the previous episode,
24:00
but she wasn't ready to go. She didn't want to go to a world
24:02
that's not her own. And then she's ready to go and
24:06
write through the story. You know, she's the one who
24:09
provides the answer at the end. She finds that pace at the end.
24:12
It might be you a little bit of an accident, but she's proactive
24:15
all the way. She's the one who cares.
24:16
She's the heart of this show. And then just the way this story
24:22
is kind for me at the end of the per era, it's you know, and I
24:26
think half of it is obviously because Raj Delgado sadly died.
24:30
See, so Planet of Spiders isn't that finale they were going to
24:34
have with the master, But it's kind of that theme.
24:37
It's, it's the last, you know, the next door.
24:40
I think you've got Alan Bromley coming, New Hampton .24.
24:42
So there's new personnel, but it's, it uses that way, that
24:46
cosy personnel to just break you to make that departure such a
24:53
tragedy at the end that that whole series has been building
24:58
up to this. You know, Katie's had that those
25:01
two stores in space. She's gone off they've they've
25:04
had this fine running space and a planet of dialect.
25:07
She just wants to go home and she perfectly bring you know,
25:12
and this she finds her home and impact.
25:17
You know, the way I see it, you know, doctors and companions,
25:20
you can kind of invite them into the ones who I'll just go so
25:26
actors and forms and it's not a pejorative thing on either of
25:29
their parts. The actors, you you trust them
25:31
to sell a big emotional scene and you know, probably maybe
25:38
isn't the guy who you trust with that, you know, he's a guy who
25:40
can drive it along as an action hero.
25:43
But that emotion in that final scene and you can feel both of
25:48
them together. You know, there's a genuine
25:52
South end of working relationship for the actors, the
25:55
end of absolutely, you know, a strong one of the strongest
26:00
heroes, one of the most consistent heroes of Doctor
26:02
Who's ever had, you know, tearing sticks and Barry, you
26:05
know, Barry let's this is as close as any gets to the
26:09
cracking how to produce Doctor Who, that consistency and it's
26:14
there in in that whole thing just feels like and they play
26:20
into that so, so beautifully. And then of course, there is
26:25
Jumpert with disguises in this story again.
26:30
He's a Welsh man. I really should be lacerating
26:33
them for the grass Milkman. Because there's lovely boyo,
26:36
isn't it? What about what the cleaning?
26:41
Woman. Yeah, you see her and go and see
26:46
you see her maggots in it. Oh, jumping.
26:50
I love Richard Franklin's grin when he sees her cleaning woman.
26:54
It's beautiful that rubbing the hand what he says.
26:58
I love your handbag. Brilliant, you know.
27:04
It's just a perfect phenomenon and the effects of the maggot is
27:09
brilliant. These the cliffhanger has
27:11
there's two shots here. I'd want to go back to the
27:14
cliffhanger from the maggots point of view, where you've got
27:17
closing on jump gorgeous and then right at the end with you
27:21
know, where boss and Stevens are there.
27:23
We've got the boss eye view of the computer.
27:27
It's such a gorgeously directed, but you know, sometimes I go
27:30
barriers. He don't he's who's who's
27:32
directing this one, Michael? Bryant.
27:34
Michael Bryant, that is such a brilliant idea.
27:39
You know, the the monster Cliff. I know it's like Creature on
27:41
Black Lagoon stuff, but it's perfectly sells those the
27:45
jeopardy and and the drama of the moment you're getting, you
27:49
know it. And Malcolm Hulk does a
27:51
brilliant job with that maggot thing in the book.
27:54
It is, you know. Yes.
27:57
Cracking as so as you want. The Reagan's on top for the
28:00
Brigadiers jacket as well. Come on, how you look?
28:05
So 1970s, Yeah. Nick Courtney could pull it off,
28:09
but he does. Yeah, let's face it, doesn't he?
28:14
Yeah. Ultimately, it's gorgeous.
28:17
It's emotional. It actually imagines my
28:21
hometown. It's the only document to make
28:24
in my hometown. I can't.
28:26
I can't go in there. What's your hometown?
28:30
Well, ah, OK. Well, we've apparently we've got
28:33
mine equipment, or we did have. And ultimately, you know, I'm
28:36
not saying this affected my parents at all, but, you know,
28:40
my mum's from the valley area. But nine months before I was
28:42
born, you know, they decided to move back down here to the
28:47
Valleys. You know, it's like, OK, yeah.
28:49
And you're. Madness.
28:50
I'm I'm trying. I'm saying that I'm only around.
28:54
I've never asked them but my theory is I'm only around
28:56
because of how sad Katie and John.
29:02
That sealed the deal that night, did it, John there.
29:06
You go. I'm so miserable.
29:07
What could we possibly do now? Let's create John Arnold.
29:10
Let's go. It was the sight of all those
29:14
maggots, wasn't it? But.
29:15
I didn't realize we were getting your original story tonight.
29:19
Amazing. I might be a rich, I might have
29:21
invented it, but I don't care. That's that's a first for us on
29:24
strictly. Shall we go to the comment?
29:27
I don't know how to top that one.
29:28
Shall we go? Shall.
29:29
We go to the comments, Michael Mills says.
29:31
Glorious and a rare bit of genuine presence from Doctor Who
29:36
with environmental concerns that would take another 15 years or
29:39
more to move from the fringe to the mainstream.
29:42
Joe gets one of the very few decent companion exits of the
29:45
classic series. I'm not going to try and pretend
29:47
it's got anything meaningful to say about AI though.
29:51
Every time anyone says Joe I just perk up and then realize
29:55
they're not talk. That's how self-centered I am.
29:57
Dan Pidden says the most quintessential perk.
30:00
We adventure 3rd doctor karate, tick.
30:03
The doctor driving an array of vehicles, tick.
30:06
The unit family, tick. Mad homegrown menace, tick.
30:10
Political twats tick. Such a great story, true
30:14
classic. Lucy McCall says the idea of a
30:16
computer invented to run things, which it does with very human
30:19
ruthlessness, is really well done and John Dearth relishes
30:23
every villainous line. I like the unlikely allegiance
30:26
between Eunice and the hippies and Stuart Bevin is an ideal
30:29
match for Joe. The finale is genuinely moving
30:32
as the Doctor is alone again. Michael Storm says very
30:36
memorable moments and the giant maggots are justly remembered.
30:39
However, the story does drag around episode 4.
30:42
Some of the CSO is woeful. Oh, get to that.
30:45
Even by Pert, Weira Sanders and jeez Louise that fly.
30:49
James Lark says gives all the regulars something interesting
30:52
to do that plays to their strengths.
30:54
The subject matter is the perfect distillation of Barry
30:56
Letty's vision for the show Pert.
30:58
We gets to dress up and have more fun than usual, Manning
31:01
goes out on a high, and the maggots are justly remembered as
31:04
one of the most successfully horrible nightmares Doctor Who
31:07
has given us. James H literally makes the anti
31:11
pollution message bright and glowing green.
31:14
The most heartbreaking companion exit ever.
31:16
Boss rules. There's a traitor shock.
31:19
There's sexual innuendo. Keep, keep and keep again.
31:23
Matt Foy says there's a reason people remember the one with the
31:26
maggots. Well, obviously John remembers
31:29
it for particular reasons. Aside from the crap CSO and a
31:32
few dodgy references about the Welsh, it mostly holds up.
31:36
The maggots look great. And what an exit for Joe.
31:39
Big Orange, Michael says. Possibly the best script
31:42
credited to Robert Slowman. I can see how certain elements
31:45
were seared into the imaginations of fans of this
31:47
era. That's it.
31:48
I've never loved this one as much as other fans do.
31:51
Dylan Reese's great location filming, The Boss is hilarious
31:54
and the ending is brilliant, but I rarely revisit it.
31:57
The whole thing just leaves me a bit cold.
32:00
What is wrong with that man, David Gillespie Pratt?
32:02
If you're not crying at the end then you're a sociopath like
32:06
Dylan Race. I was going to say directly.
32:08
That's actually in the comment. Yeah, oh, no.
32:10
Directly comparing Chris. Chris Gillespie, Pratt.
32:13
So we've got two husbands, Chris says.
32:17
Love the genuine sadness at the end with the toast and that's
32:20
that. Joe's looking when the door is
32:22
closed. Second favorite story, Always
32:25
cry. I mean, they could be brothers.
32:27
They're. Not Dang Hollingsworth a
32:31
companion exit marrying off at short notice that actually
32:34
works. Joe and Cliff getting together
32:36
to share all their hair products.
32:38
What a lovely shaggy 70s hair they both have.
32:41
A great one for Pert Wee's moments of charm.
32:44
Ian McCann says a cracking story maggots and CSOB damned, but
32:49
also has an emotional intelligence many early whose
32:51
stories rarely hard. Joe leaving the doctor still
32:54
hurts to this day. Complexicated Cookie as written
32:58
as a small dissertation. My favorite story of all.
33:01
When you realize it's all about grief and loss, it hits you on
33:04
another level. For episode one, the doctor
33:06
realizes he's losing Joe. We then watch him come to terms
33:09
of that over six episodes through sadness, anger, fear,
33:12
bargaining by saving Cliff's life, and finally acceptance.
33:16
The final scene with him silently sneaking and driving
33:19
away is breathtaking. Who gives a flux says this has
33:23
everything going for it. It's in Wales too, so bonus
33:26
points. Joe has an emotional farewell.
33:28
A solid message too. You read any more out from him,
33:31
you got to do the Walsh accent. Oh, I'll do that for you.
33:33
Sorry, Oreo. Oreo LSJ, otherwise known as
33:37
Luke Sims Jenkins says one thing, one good grief, only does
33:42
one thing better than the war machines, and that's the
33:44
companion's exit. Love Katie but never been much
33:47
of A Joe fan. And finally, lovely Joe Short
33:51
says my first ever Doctor Who story.
33:54
Maggots, maggots and more maggots.
33:56
Oh kinky bitch. I don't know, she loves a bit of
33:58
maggot action. Anyway, let's move to Jack.
34:01
Jack, has John won you over with his beguiling summary of the
34:07
Green Death? Oh yes, I mean, John didn't need
34:11
to do much of A job to convince me and put this one.
34:14
So this is always a contender for my favorite of the season.
34:19
It is a contender for my favorite Jon Pertwee, full stop.
34:23
It's you know, it's funny, the bits that you remember as a
34:29
child versus, you know, as a slightly bigger job.
34:35
Obviously this one is, you know, the one with the Mavis the one,
34:38
the one where the companion leads.
34:40
And then these are the moments that stick with you and sort of
34:43
watching it for the first time. But going through this season
34:47
again, in particular when I went through, you know, the jump over
34:51
here in order. This is such a crucial moment in
34:56
the show's history. And it's so well executed.
35:01
You know, you, you always worried it's the top of the
35:05
coin, whether you're going to get, as we've mentioned,
35:08
something like, you know, the war machine for the invasion of
35:12
time or whether you're going to get something like this whenever
35:16
a character is written out of the show.
35:19
What I like is that it is so utterly geared towards this end.
35:27
You know, it's very one track mind.
35:29
We all know what we're here for and we're going to continue the
35:33
story to its logical conclusion. There's no, we're making this up
35:38
on the fly. There's no, you know, we'll see
35:41
what happens week to week. Everyone is focused on getting
35:45
this to where it needs to be at the end.
35:49
There's a lot of moments in this story, but going back on other
35:53
John Purple stories, you you find certain beats being
35:58
repeated. There's, you know, the five
36:01
rounds Rapids from the from the demons becomes 10 rounds Rapids.
36:05
Yeah. You've got a repeat of the bit
36:08
in Doctor and Michelle Lurians where the Doctor has to
36:11
convince, tries to convince the Bullet beer not to explode the
36:15
mime with the Silurians. I'm in the magnets.
36:18
But this time, you know, he's more successful in doing that.
36:22
And the Brigadier delays the explosion.
36:25
You've got Michael Damons again. This story ends with the
36:30
Bugabeer and Mike Yates going off for a drink and being being
36:36
pulled off for well, maybe, maybe that that you haven't seen
36:43
my copy of the Demons being asked to dance by sort of
36:49
strange hippie woman. You've got the, you've got the,
36:55
the inversion of the moments in Inferno where I think some of
37:02
the best for Doctor moments or the times where he feels
37:08
separate from the UNIT. So you, you, you've got moments
37:12
where you can tell that he is desperate to drift off and go
37:16
and explore other planets. Now he has his sleep.
37:20
And I think most importantly, it's got a reversal in fortunes
37:26
of the critical theme or one of our favorite themes in Terribly
37:32
Autumn, where Joe first meets the Doctor.
37:35
That theme is basically repeated in the theme where Joe first
37:40
meets Cliff. It's the same Sheen, it's the
37:42
same beats. But more importantly, it's, you
37:46
know, Cliff's attitude towards Joe is clearly different.
37:52
He's a lot more forgiving of Joe than the doctor is.
37:55
You know, Cliff's not going to call her a hand flisted band
37:59
vendor. You know, there's, there's a lot
38:01
more sympathy there for Joe even though she's doing similar
38:05
things, you know, women, the experiments of this scientist
38:09
that you've only just met, you know?
38:11
Yeah, But Jack. He.
38:13
He was the fucker. The doctor didn't.
38:16
Well, not really not but apparently most other people on
38:20
the production staff. But yeah, I think there's some
38:27
very deliberate call backs that are machines, moments, stories,
38:32
characters that aren't, you know, just a happy accident.
38:36
I think they are being very deliberately seated in so
38:41
that's, you know, the the running stuff that that is all
38:44
being geared towards this moment.
38:47
But as a one off serial, you know, that goes out week to week
38:51
on BBC One in in 1973, this is an incredibly entertaining and
38:58
dare I say political possibly story.
39:03
It turns out you can do both. You know this on the previous
39:10
episode you guys looked at series 12, Jeremy Whitley series
39:14
and you talked about anyone. 50. Five, well, everyone's favorite
39:18
doctors for oil from 55. And was that sort of not the
39:23
most positive films? I mean, I, I feel a bit bad for,
39:27
as I said in my comments on that series, but the one thing that
39:31
really sticks in my mind is the ending of it, which I think is a
39:35
complete misfire. I was technologically executed
39:40
as a piece of television. I just think it's an invasion.
39:43
But the narrative, what it's trying to say, I think it's
39:48
perspective is skewed all wrong. The Doctor basically looks at
39:52
Ryan Graham and Yaz, who are three perfectly nice people and
39:57
says, hey, isn't it terrible? All the things that you are
40:00
doing for the environment. And it's all look at Glen Ryman.
40:03
Yes, I go what Glen Ryman, yes to him it's a big moment, but
40:07
it's until probably the dogs have to scold them.
40:10
It's just it's it's and the only reason it's done is so that they
40:14
can look down the camera and go you, audience member, you or.
40:19
Jack is. Then we cut to the Drake, so we
40:22
know those four, those lovely companions, are all going to
40:24
turn into hideous monsters. Well, and actually Jack and
40:28
actually Jack, I can answer that because what Ryan is doing
40:30
wrong, actually he's wasting air by breathing.
40:33
So if he just. Stopped.
40:34
We'd all be a hell of a lot happier.
40:36
Always so prissy. Well, how could you say that?
40:40
So, I mean, who, you know, who needs oil and coal when you can
40:44
just burn wood? Fire setting a fire whenever
40:47
toasting coals trying to have Yeah.
40:49
It's a very good point. But anyway, not, not that I know
40:53
the Christian leader receives a lot more, you know, unpleasant
40:58
reactions the most. So I'll stop it there.
41:00
But my my point only in the comparison is that this is
41:04
obviously also reaching certain environmental concerns.
41:09
But I think the way it's communicated is very woven into
41:13
the plot and to the characters. You know, it's written as if
41:17
it's being said by a character. If you go back and watch Jo
41:21
Graham's speech, I think in episode one where she's, you
41:24
know, frantically turning her head between the Brigadier and
41:28
the Doctor and talking about all the the dangers of pollution and
41:31
we must stop it. And you know she.
41:33
Kind of gets so. Swasted that she forget what
41:36
she's saying and she. Goes we're going to go down the
41:38
slippery slope. Of, of whatever, Yeah.
41:42
And that's how you do it. Environmental messaging, but
41:45
it's wrapped in plot and character.
41:49
I'm communicating. Hang.
41:51
On, hang on, you're being very mean about all the 55 here a bit
41:55
where we cross cut between Joe and Cliff and the Brigadier and
42:00
Jerome Willis's character that no oil, no pollution.
42:05
I mean, it's very on the nose, it's very lecturing.
42:08
Oh, it's, there's a lot. There's a quite a bit on the
42:10
nose stuff. I'm simply at that bit again.
42:12
And that's the one where they shamelessly rip off the Neville
42:18
Chamberlain. You know, I have a piece of
42:20
paper in my hands, you know, piece in our time, you know,
42:25
bit, which is very, you know, for the parents watching at
42:28
home, they're like, oh, I understand that reference.
42:30
Yeah. So I won't deny that, you know,
42:34
1970s television sometimes will do that.
42:38
But it's been. That's just for example for me
42:41
of how they four years in they had such an understanding of
42:47
plot and character about it and turn sticks that they are able
42:52
to construct a piece of television is factual and
42:58
entertainment and you know, understanding its function and
43:03
yeah, I mean, I'm not sure what else to say about it is the
43:08
absolute pinnacle of everything that's on Perth we ever is
43:13
trying to achieve. Obviously there are stories in
43:16
the season but that seem like outliers in a lot of the
43:21
perfectly era, both in positive ways and negative ways.
43:26
But if you want to describe some to someone, or if someone were
43:29
to ask you what is a John Perksley unit story that is
43:35
executed to the hilt, it would be Blue Death.
43:40
Or the Divas. Well, I enjoyed the demons as
43:45
well, but I hadn't been asked to be on the season eight one
43:49
second. Fair enough.
43:53
That wealth in our country is is brilliant because that it
43:57
doesn't let things get too morally straightforward because
44:00
you've got the miners there and they need that, you know, the
44:04
mine is going. So they need that money, global
44:07
chemicals money coming morally complex.
44:10
You know, the way they look at Cliff, they don't just accept
44:12
his arguments. They're happily putting, you
44:14
know, point and counterpoint there.
44:16
And you know, it's the kind of story that they had to tell
44:20
through analogy before, but this time, you know, really angry.
44:24
So they they telling you honest. It's really the most explicitly
44:28
political of the Berkeley. Like in in planet of the
44:31
dialects where we'll get to, you know, the whole don't glorify
44:34
war. You know, war is, is bad.
44:37
It there's not two points of view there, is it?
44:39
It's just him looking straight out of the camera going all
44:42
right, you people, if you go to war, all right, it's.
44:45
Not you're accusing termination of Paul.
44:47
You communicate in this. Oh.
44:49
Not at all. We haven't got that.
44:53
So, Joe, what do you think of the green dust?
44:55
Well, that's too very smart readings.
44:57
So I'm going to come along now and just be very immature and
45:00
say I absolutely adore the the whole sequence on Metabellius
45:05
3IN episode one, especially the bit with those enormous
45:09
pantomime chicken legs that fly over John Perry's head, like
45:14
when you guys said about how entertaining this is.
45:16
This is just a perfect. Example of that.
45:19
I mean, it's fucking ridiculous, isn't it?
45:21
So, so bad. We've got this lovely stuff.
45:24
Happening on Earth we're titting about in a quarry at night with
45:28
every prop the BBC has that's. Well, that's for John Perk.
45:32
Have you ever watched for John Perk's with Stories Jam?
45:35
It's all tit in about, of course.
45:36
That's well. That's Doctor Who, not just John
45:39
Perky stories. But oh God, it's so funny.
45:41
And the way it all escalates to that gag when materializes back
45:47
in, it just goes, hello, yes, I'll speak to anyone.
45:51
It's so funny. And actually there's a thread of
45:55
lovely humor that runs through all of this alongside all the
45:59
other things. But I just think those things
46:00
are so funny. Poor John Bowie's assaulted in
46:03
every way they possibly can, and how that bit of fluff sets up
46:09
the whole of Planet of the Spiders.
46:11
Brilliant. So, so indicative of this era.
46:14
The second thing I quite mostly want to say is the CSO that
46:19
everybody's shitting on in the comments today, and I think it
46:23
isn't great, but it is ambitious and it gives them a chance to do
46:29
things they wouldn't otherwise do.
46:30
Yeah, you can clearly tell. They're not hunting their way
46:33
for a mine shaft of maggots with the fringe lines going around
46:36
them. But this is how technology
46:40
progresses. It comes in you, you have to
46:42
give it a go, you perfect it and go on.
46:45
And Doctor Who's always pioneered technology and this is
46:49
the Hyper here is a brilliant example of that.
46:52
They don't always pull it off. Sometimes they do.
46:54
I think that the bit where Sarah Jane first goes towards the
46:57
Exelon City and Death to the Daleks is a fantastic bit of
47:01
CSO. It doesn't always work here.
47:04
I absolutely love them for trying it and for opening out
47:08
storytelling possibilities visually, and that's my final
47:12
word on that matter. Barry Net always hates the CSO,
47:15
doesn't he? Every commentary.
47:19
It's crazy. It's and, you know, yeah, I
47:21
mean, I can see why he's embarrassed by it.
47:23
I'm glad he he's one of those people at the BBC that was
47:26
pushing this stuff along. You know, I've, I've recently
47:30
been watching what I used to consider the nadir of
47:34
television, Babylon 5. And I'm just going through the
47:37
first series at the moment with some very primitive CGI in
47:41
there. But Jesus Christ, if they didn't
47:43
do it and if they didn't push that to his absolute limits and
47:47
I'll know it gets better because I've seen stuff later, then we
47:51
wouldn't have the CGI we have today.
47:52
So I think this stuff is, it's important.
47:56
And my third reason, because that's two rather silly reasons
48:01
to say that that Green death is Jerome Willis, who I think it's
48:05
a really great villain in this. He's very smooth when he needs
48:09
to be. I love the scenes where he
48:10
reveals his political connections.
48:12
You know, in high office, sort of Brigadier, he's sitting there
48:16
smoking and flirting away with his head guards.
48:19
Yeah. And then by the end of the
48:21
story, he's a really tragic character, isn't he?
48:23
And and ultimately, it's his sort of journey that saves the
48:27
day. He's the one that stops the boss
48:29
at the end. Sorry, John.
48:31
And most importantly, he has a sex dungeon.
48:34
He has won't change MM gates. So what else is going on in that
48:38
dungeon? I want to know.
48:40
Mike Gates was enjoying himself a little bit too much and there
48:43
seems, I think, chains. Hanging there, aren't there?
48:46
How did John? We said we weren't going to talk
48:48
about our sex dungeon on this, all right?
48:54
And just for all the other reasons you guys said, I think
48:56
the scenes between John Perry and Katie Manning, there's three
48:59
in particular. The first one that you
49:00
highlighted, John, the fledging flies, the coop, The look on
49:04
John Perry's face when you realize that she ain't coming
49:06
and this is all over it breaks your heart.
49:10
The one in the middle off on the most interesting is the one
49:13
where she stops Cliff from going to the fireside and pulls him
49:19
away and like, goodnight Joe. And he's jealous.
49:22
The man who wouldn't shot of her and terror of the Autons.
49:25
You know, I'll have a properly qualified scientist or no one at
49:29
all. And now he's absolutely jealous
49:31
that this gorgeous, smart, you know, moral bloke, a younger
49:36
version of him basically. Oh, he's pretty hot.
49:39
Is, is taking her affections away.
49:41
That's really interesting. And we don't go there very often
49:45
in Doctor Who, so that's worth celebrating.
49:48
And of course, that the very quiet way they say goodbye to
49:51
each other. He gives her the crystal, you
49:53
know, all the sort of holding back of the the restraint of
49:57
that last scene is what makes that so moving.
49:59
And then him going off that beautiful shot of Bessie going
50:03
off in the sunshine. I don't think our emotions are
50:07
played quite as expertly as they are in the Green Death at any
50:12
other point in the Classic series is run.
50:14
No other point, of course. It's going through.
50:19
OK. So it's down to me.
50:21
It's very sad. It's very derivative.
50:24
We've seen all these messages before.
50:26
We've been through discussion of pollution, we've had that
50:30
before. We've seen creatures being
50:32
transformed into giants before. We've done evil corporations,
50:36
we've done corrupt politicians. And there's even a hint here of
50:40
love between the Doctor and his companion.
50:43
So it's all just a bit sad and but Oh no, hang on, that's
50:48
arachnids in the UK, isn't it? Oh please, this is the Green
50:53
Death. Please, this is the green death.
50:55
And this is fucking magnificent. So of course it's going through.
50:59
It's brilliant. You guys arachnids in the UK and
51:04
it will make you eat those words in that episode.
51:07
Cannot wait till you do series 11.
51:10
It's it's coming shortly. So first reason you guys have
51:14
touched on that a lot already, but there's few other bits I'd
51:16
like to pull out the love triangle between the doctor Joe
51:20
and Professor Jones. You're absolutely right.
51:23
There is a real, I mean, it doesn't play out the way the new
51:25
series will play it. It will play out now, obviously,
51:28
but there's a real battle, isn't there, for Joe's affections and
51:30
Joe's loyalties. So right from that first scene,
51:33
the Doctors looks quite desolate.
51:35
Joe's not just going to slavishly follow him into the
51:37
TARDIS. Off to Matter V List 3.
51:39
It's a couple of lines. She says she's talking about
51:42
Professor Jones. She said he's a man that will
51:44
never give up. Well, that's a description of
51:46
the Doctor and and Joe, you alluded to it before.
51:49
She says that Professor's like a younger version of him.
51:53
It's it's very on the nose, isn't?
51:55
It you should have said he's a prettier version than you.
51:58
Yeah, I want him. I don't want you.
51:59
You're a bit too old for me, love.
52:04
And and then obviously we've got the dinner at the Nut Hatch in
52:07
Episode 3. Gorgeous.
52:09
So Joe's upset because Lovely Bird has died.
52:13
So. So Professor Jones takes Joe's
52:15
hand. Doctor comes in, and instead he
52:18
puts his arm around Joe's shoulder.
52:20
They're really battling her over, over her, aren't they?
52:22
But obviously she goes off to the fireplace with Professor
52:25
Jones, and the doctor bursts in and catches them about to kiss.
52:29
The look on the doctor's face, I mean, he's more, he's more upset
52:34
in that moment than if he'd open the door and seen a a Yeti on
52:37
the low in Tooting back. I mean, he's absolutely shocked
52:40
at that point. We've just never done it before,
52:42
have we? We really.
52:44
Really have one and it it's all the better for it.
52:47
He tries to watch Joe he says come on Joe time to go to Ben.
52:50
She's she's going to stay there. So instead he has to nobble the
52:53
professor and lead him away. That's brilliant.
52:56
And then absolutely rise. Everybody said the moment in in
53:00
series 6. By now the doctors accept the
53:02
situation. He knows Joe's going to move on
53:05
and when the professor makes the marriage proposal to Joe and
53:12
they're all absolutely shocked by it.
53:13
I love the doctors get out of room line and he said oh, I do
53:17
think I'm going to be wanted on the telephone so that he can
53:19
excuse himself from the room. He knows he's lost at that
53:22
point. You know, those are all lovely
53:24
poems, but I don't remember any of that happening in Series 6,
53:28
episode 6. I do remember it happened again.
53:31
Oh, did I say seriously? There ain't.
53:35
Nothing as good as this in series 6.
53:36
Oh Jesus, no, bloody hell. So that's my first reason, the
53:40
love triangle. The second one is I mentioned at
53:43
the top lots of people saying, oh, this is comfort doctor, but
53:46
there's so much in here that really subverts expectations.
53:49
And again, you know, we, we're, I don't want to use the word
53:52
jaded, but we know this stuff inside out.
53:54
When you watch it first time, you've got to go back to that
53:57
and think, what were the audience expecting and what did
53:59
they get? So I mean, there's some really
54:02
basic stuff like we were expecting Metabolis 3 to be this
54:05
paradise planet. And as you said, Joe, it's a
54:08
hellhole from which the Doctor barely escapes for the period
54:12
we're in as well to have a group of hippies who are not just
54:14
there as Comic Relief, which in most programmes they were at
54:17
that point, but actually they're portrayed sympathetically.
54:20
And more than that, they're intelligent and they're right,
54:23
and they become the heroes of the piece.
54:25
That's really funny in places though.
54:27
Oh, they are, but that's. But that's good, isn't it?
54:29
Beef? But we get both sides off them.
54:32
They want the very wine. Oh, that's.
54:34
Glorious, but we treat them with respect. 1973 hippies were
54:38
usually just there to be laughed at.
54:41
We then get a suicide on screen so foul commits suicide.
54:45
Joe you and I talked about this on on Waters of Mars and going
54:48
too far. But that actually for 17/19/73
54:51
Doctor Who they watched this guy run and jump off and plummet to
54:55
his death and we even see the corpse then on the ground.
54:59
I mean that is quite a shocking moment.
55:02
Other ways that this subverse expectation, yes, the man from
55:04
the Ministry turns up. Now we expect he's going to be a
55:07
foe for the Doctor, but actually, no, this time it's
55:10
Mike Gates in disguise. So again, we get all those
55:12
lovely little twists. The villain, I mean, John
55:15
Dearth. Now, how has no one mentioned
55:17
John Dearth? What a beautiful, glorious, rich
55:20
vocal performance from him. But he turns out to be a
55:23
supercomputer that loves Wagner and Tchaikovsky.
55:28
It's wonderful in it. And John, as you said, you know,
55:31
we got also put we're playing some broad comedy, which he
55:34
hasn't really done up to now. So yeah, lots of ways it it
55:37
really suffers what you expect. And finally, the beasties.
55:41
I've got to give a call out to the maggots.
55:42
We've all said this was the one with the maggots, and everyone
55:45
at the time did refer to it like that.
55:47
But some of those maggot shots, particularly the close-ups when
55:49
they've got the jaw working and it's hissing, are spectacular.
55:53
Some of the longer shots with the condoms rolling down the
55:56
hill may be less successful, but those close-ups are are really
56:00
memorable for the right reasons, unlike the fly which is
56:03
memorable probably for all the wrong reasons.
56:06
Have you not seen some terrifying things in condoms?
56:08
I think those scenes are pretty. Scary.
56:10
I don't think we'd better go there.
56:12
OK. So yeah, absolutely, of course
56:15
it's going through. It's brilliant.
56:18
So lovely. Lovely.
56:23
So 4 for four green death through Jack.
56:26
Would you like to pick your story?
56:27
You either going to champion or condemn.
56:30
Oh God, OK, so haven't watched, well not watched listened to
56:39
this series. You start to get a hand of the
56:43
strategy of it. And I think the the the best
56:52
strategy is to present an argument that you're the least
56:58
concerned about losing. Because I really want to use my
57:02
votes for other stuff. There's other stuff I would
57:06
maybe want to bend, other stuff that I'd maybe want to keep.
57:10
So I think I'm going to, in the spirit of general positivity,
57:16
but not my positivity, I'm going to reluctantly nominate to
57:23
being, or should I say exterminate, terminate the
57:29
Daleks. But I am nominating it rather
57:34
than I'm nominating it rather than using one of my precious,
57:38
precious throats. So, you know, you have the
57:40
chance to tell me to get stuff. You will be.
57:43
Taken to the Daleks. Jack well I wish I was the
57:47
story, You know, once by the time I watched Planet of the
57:57
Daleks in colour but in black and white and it have Lynn
58:01
Hartman and Bob was in it and Ian was in it and even Susan was
58:06
in it, which you know was a slight distraction but not that
58:09
much. Which is now itself obviously in
58:13
colour and shorter. So even better.
58:18
My point being the obvious and somewhat redundant point, but
58:23
Planet of the Darts shares a lot in common with William Hart NV
58:28
Daleks. This is a point not just made by
58:32
me and probably also made by the comment section, but even made
58:36
by the BBC themselves. If you turn on the special
58:40
features of Planet of the Daleks, you will get Terence
58:44
Dipps and Barry Les couching their comments with, well, yes,
58:49
I suppose when we took Terry Nation for lunch at one time and
58:52
they offered him to write another story for us.
58:55
So I suppose that when we got it back, we looked at it and we
58:58
thought this is quite similar in a sort of playful way to 1973
59:05
for dollars. Which is fine.
59:08
I can understand the appeal for 1973 audiences you haven't seen.
59:12
You probably haven't seen 1963 for dollars in 1973, but
59:18
unfortunately in 2024 I have seen and so I sort of find it a
59:26
little bit redundant. You know, there are.
59:28
Excuse me, hang on. You cannot blame Terry Nation
59:31
for the digital revolution. That means I can't blame whoever
59:38
sold in this type, right? If we go down the list, and this
59:46
is just my list, we've got some plants that make funny animal
59:50
noises and squirt linen. We've got plants that take you
59:54
over on contact, like the bar. The plants for Mission to the
59:56
Unknown. We've got invisible creatures,
59:59
plague bombs. We escape through a tunnel where
1:00:02
the fall is killed. We have the Daleks using
1:00:05
subjugated humanoid turbans. We have an escape of a lift
1:00:10
shop. We're the Dorats all.
1:00:12
Hovers upwards. We have one of the characters
1:00:15
being humorously hiding inside of the Dalek and talking a bit
1:00:19
like a Dalek to impersonate one. We have a foe who falls in love
1:00:25
with one of the companions even though they haven't spoken much,
1:00:28
and shares a sort of comical misunderstanding of human
1:00:33
greetings. And we have show Grant, much
1:00:38
like Mark Corey, talking into a sort of handheld recording
1:00:42
device to take a look. I was quite pleased that it
1:00:46
seemed to be quitting quite a bit for Mission to the Unknown,
1:00:49
because obviously I'm we can't see Mission to the Unknown quite
1:00:52
as much. So if you're going to copy any
1:00:54
dialect story, copy Mission to the Unknown because at least
1:00:57
then I haven't really seen it. It's got entertainment moments,
1:01:04
which I'm sure people get into. But you know, absolutely, you
1:01:08
know, there's some nice visual effects work.
1:01:10
You know, I watched the version as broadcast without the
1:01:15
additional special effects and I was perfectly happy with a lot
1:01:18
of those. I like the Supreme spaceship.
1:01:22
I like the ice cream with 10,000 dots inside I found quite cute,
1:01:29
but obviously the problem is that we've seen a lot of it
1:01:34
before and that can't always be helped.
1:01:36
I understand, but if I want something that's a bit
1:01:42
comforting and it's a bit familiar, I'd also quite like it
1:01:46
to be a bit good. I guess probably if I had to
1:01:49
pick a word, I don't it's it's just should have been four parts
1:01:56
it all 2-3 or one or zero. It's all feels like we've seen a
1:02:04
lot of it before and not just in other dialect stories.
1:02:08
I spoke at the beginning about, you know, older storytelling
1:02:12
conventions being used in planet of the Dialects.
1:02:15
And I think it just feels like it should have been made even
1:02:21
possibly even the 50s, never mind the 60s.
1:02:25
There's a lot of we talked about the politics of the Green Death
1:02:28
and we'll get into a politics of, you know, carnival monsters,
1:02:32
frontier in space, probably less service 3 doctors.
1:02:36
But the politics here are so very 1960s.
1:02:43
Wouldn't it be pacifism be great?
1:02:45
And you know, shouldn't we give there's a chance which, you
1:02:49
know, I feel that we should be on more complex subject matter,
1:02:54
the rights of which we do get into the in frontier and space
1:02:58
and planning the darling. More the other way though,
1:03:00
because some of the files sold out, they're off in a military
1:03:04
going to war. Well, some of them are, but I
1:03:07
think there's a bit some .3 in this story I think is quite like
1:03:14
William Hartnell, which is fine because I prefer the 1st Doctor
1:03:18
to the Third Doctor. So I'm, I'm happy for him to
1:03:20
fact a bit more about William Hartnell in this story.
1:03:25
And yeah, I I just sort of feel that it's as a continuation of
1:03:34
Frontier in Space. It doesn't quite connect as
1:03:38
much. You know, there's so much
1:03:40
promise in she and the Daleks to be in the Frontier in Space.
1:03:44
And, you know, the story will continue.
1:03:48
Does it Does do the events of Frontier in Space get wrapped up
1:03:52
in the store? I mean, spoiler or that I don't
1:03:55
think they do. We haven't got to discuss in
1:03:57
Frontier in Space. The story ends with, ironically,
1:04:02
something that Terry Nation will use even later where the Daleks
1:04:06
do their you know, the Daleks will, you know, will survive and
1:04:12
we will get out before which obviously they go back to in
1:04:15
Genesis of the Daleks sort of ends on a similar notice as
1:04:19
well. And yeah, I understand it's it's
1:04:23
function as as comfort viewing, but and it's not helped by a
1:04:28
modern age where six years of television was all available our
1:04:33
fingertips. But I think there are better
1:04:36
dialect stories that come before it, never mind ones that come
1:04:40
after it. And yeah, I, I, David Maloney is
1:04:46
one of the best directors Doctor Who ever had.
1:04:48
This is not necessarily a strong showing for him.
1:04:51
I think a lot of the studio work is quite cramps and, you know,
1:04:58
you think to yourself, is this the guy who made, you know, the
1:05:01
war games, the mind robber talent and Tram is a great
1:05:06
productions and really well staged.
1:05:09
And I just think this is not it's a it's a little bit too
1:05:13
small screen for me. Yeah, I mean that that's, I'm
1:05:20
not sure what else to say really is I, I understood that by
1:05:23
nominating it, I made it well loose and that's fine.
1:05:27
But yeah, it's just, it's a little bit same, same, isn't it?
1:05:34
OK, let us go to the comments, James Lark, echoing what Jack's
1:05:40
just been saying, says perfectly watchable, but there's no
1:05:43
escaping the fact we've seen all of this done better before.
1:05:46
Terry Nation clearly hasn't been watching Doctor Who and is by
1:05:49
the numbers. It's escapades sits uneasily in
1:05:51
a series that now deals in more sophisticated fair.
1:05:55
I would support any any campaign to lose the colorized Episode 3
1:05:59
and restore it to foggy black and white, because this story
1:06:01
makes much more sense when it looks like it was made eight
1:06:04
years earlier. Dylan Ruiz talking sense for
1:06:07
once. Now we're talking a proper big
1:06:10
Dalek story set on an alien world.
1:06:13
This is what the last few seasons have been missing.
1:06:15
And yes, it may be full of things nations done before, but
1:06:18
who would even remember that at the time apart from Ian?
1:06:21
Perfect Recall Levine. Stephen B says the worst example
1:06:26
of Terry Nation hack writer. It may be comfort viewing for
1:06:29
many, but it's plodding pace, gaudy studio scenes and general
1:06:33
tiredness. Is Terrence getting something
1:06:35
onto the screen that wasn't the test card?
1:06:37
He really did deserve a knighthood.
1:06:40
Oh David Gillespie Pratt, love this story unashamedly,
1:06:43
unreservedly, and without a hint of guilt.
1:06:46
In 1993 it was the story being repeated that helped her.
1:06:49
My has your interest into being a fan with a capital F and that
1:06:53
for that alone it gets a free pass and always will.
1:06:56
Daniel Knight says the ultimate in comfort too, but it's not
1:06:59
without its faults. The plot is Terry Nation's
1:07:01
greatest hits and David Maloney's direction is not his
1:07:04
usual standard. Good cast though and you can't
1:07:07
vote it out as my eldest son loves the Supreme Dalek.
1:07:11
Are you listening to that John Arnold?
1:07:12
All right, Michael Storm, maybe a throwback to 60 space
1:07:16
adventure stories and you can play Terry Nation trope bingo
1:07:19
card or drinking game, but it's fun.
1:07:22
Interesting to learn that in the original storyline, all the
1:07:24
files were killed at the end of Part 40.
1:07:26
That would have been great. Evidently, Dix or let's objected
1:07:30
to Nation's rampant bloodlust. Aaron Lit Randall says more
1:07:34
happens here than in Frontier, so that's an improvement, but it
1:07:37
just doesn't appeal to me. The aesthetic is pretty nasty
1:07:40
aside from some good lighting. An off day for David Maloney.
1:07:44
Complexicated cookie. My favorite.
1:07:47
You're in this Jaguar. Favorite Dalek?
1:07:49
Story one of. His best performances, his
1:07:54
conversation about the nature of fear and telling the Thales at
1:07:56
the end not to glorify war, is beautiful.
1:08:00
A bit like the end of Auburn 55 55 Yeah files make for a good
1:08:05
supporting cast. I love the Spirodons, especially
1:08:08
as purple is my favorite color. LSJ says a greatest hit story,
1:08:12
but all the hits were done better elsewhere.
1:08:15
Boring. Dan Pin.
1:08:16
It has its faults, but there's so much to endure, especially
1:08:19
the Doctor's beautiful purple jacket.
1:08:21
Great to have the files back and there are some lovely scenes
1:08:23
between the 3rd Doctor and Codel.
1:08:25
Give western inhaler please. James H has so many mixed
1:08:29
feelings about this one. The show, which has absolutely
1:08:32
never been woke or preachy before, Has the anti war stuff
1:08:35
lit up in neon? The scene with the light bulb
1:08:39
eyes? But it's the TARDIS stuff.
1:08:41
I can't forgive Bennett. Andy Parkinson, another story I
1:08:44
love. It's got all the Terry Nation
1:08:46
tropes and Prentice Hancock is his useful irascible self, but
1:08:50
somehow it's just a great romp that rattles along nicely.
1:08:53
There's plenty of flaws for sure, but none of them really
1:08:55
matter. Keep it.
1:08:57
Gareth Bowley says worst story here A colour rehash of the
1:09:00
Daleks over Long and dull, however, cued us to put with
1:09:03
suit. And Gareth Bowley kicks out the
1:09:06
Daleks in the series. One didn't he?
1:09:08
He did. Batman, Jason Thompson.
1:09:11
Perfect, Sorry. Pure comfort.
1:09:12
Who? I loved it in 93 and I love it
1:09:14
now. Julie Welling says weakest of
1:09:16
the season. Too long, too boring, and I've
1:09:19
seen this plot before. And the very wise Chris.
1:09:22
Just says. Great, like a blockbuster action
1:09:26
film done on TV. John, over to you.
1:09:31
I saw you nodding quite a few time zone where Jack was talking
1:09:33
so I'm getting a little bit concerned, but let's get your
1:09:36
views. It it determination scripts
1:09:40
always interesting because I think because they're so
1:09:43
standard, you can tell a lot more about the era just from
1:09:46
comparing. So if you want to compare and
1:09:47
address this to say Genesis of Daleks, Destiny of the dialects,
1:09:52
you can tell a lot about the style of an era, about how it's
1:09:55
produced. And I think it's because Terry
1:09:59
Nation, his method was very kind of slap dashing away.
1:10:05
You know, he said he didn't like to go back and retype things.
1:10:08
So what he did, he just went, OK, if I've gone or I don't know
1:10:12
where I'm going, I'll just go away, you know, have have a
1:10:15
cigarette, have a cup of tea, whatever, come back and just get
1:10:18
out of it. So it's very, it's very
1:10:21
energetic. It's always an energy to Terry
1:10:23
Nation's storytelling. It doesn't necessarily hang
1:10:27
together that well. And I think, I think the problem
1:10:32
I've got here is he's is that Nation is still writing the
1:10:35
Doctor Who, as Jack said, as it was in 19651966.
1:10:40
You still, you know, it's still slow.
1:10:42
It's that first Terry Nation episode, which just, you know
1:10:46
where it's going. You know, it ends in the reveal
1:10:48
of a Dalek and it's it's not. Every Dalek story.
1:10:53
Yeah, and but then you get this Part 2, Doctor.
1:10:57
Oh, there's an army of Daleks on this family.
1:10:59
You just have the time not to send you there, for God's sake.
1:11:03
What's going on? It's.
1:11:06
Probably out to the kids that haven't been paying attention.
1:11:09
Yeah, I think this is a story that it's also been that you had
1:11:14
to be there at the time because they haven't had a proper big
1:11:17
Dalek story since 1966 at this point.
1:11:20
So yeah, I think it's Nick Briggs his favorite story, isn't
1:11:23
it, on that front. So I mean.
1:11:25
I thought you were going to. Say against it and I I just you
1:11:36
know, I obviously I was born after so I can't quite take to
1:11:39
it as as I come to it as someone who doesn't didn't get it in
1:11:44
context of Santi's kid. So I can't love it and you know,
1:11:52
and and I know we talk about effects, but the Bakaki plants
1:11:56
for God's sake, what's going on there and the heavy breathing?
1:12:00
What's termination been watching?
1:12:02
I want to know we know what it's called back we.
1:12:06
Know. This was the era of the heavy
1:12:09
breathing phone call, so you know, it was just it was invoke
1:12:12
with what was going on at the time.
1:12:14
It's what you get in whales, you know?
1:12:16
Wow. Yeah, true.
1:12:20
I there is the fact I I do love the way the supreme dialect
1:12:23
comes the end takes no shit. You know, it's like biggest
1:12:27
campus Dalek and I love that. But really a part of that you're
1:12:35
trying to get John Purvey to sell a big moral speak to him,
1:12:37
and that is not John Purvey strength.
1:12:39
You can't sort Peter Capaldi a speech, you know it it.
1:12:43
So it does come across very much as that end of all 55 or rows
1:12:48
away. You deliver that more or lesson
1:12:50
straight down the camera. And I think doesn't write great
1:12:56
characters and I think Dave will only he does his best.
1:12:59
He gets burned at all for him. But there's nothing breeding him
1:13:02
to work with you. So I can't you know, I'm not
1:13:05
that interested in the characters.
1:13:08
It's what are the stakes here to to be interested.
1:13:10
It's not what Russell D Davis said about the planet ZOG.
1:13:14
What am I actually, you know, what should I care about here?
1:13:18
I can't care about any of it, sorry.
1:13:22
So for me, I can't put it through.
1:13:24
So I'm I'm going to go with Jack and I'm just just into the bin
1:13:28
or if it gets the Kirsten clipboard, I'm putting the
1:13:30
killer in so. Joe, I think you've probably
1:13:37
already revealed your hand on this one, but go for it.
1:13:40
Oh Jesus I fucking hate this bullshit.
1:13:43
What a load of no. I'm like, I can't even give this
1:13:47
straight face for a second. Yeah, I really.
1:13:50
Love this, but then I'm six years old at heart and I think a
1:13:54
six year old would watch this and just love.
1:13:57
You know, we talked about this in Keys of Mariners, Rod Danger
1:14:00
after another and sort of I think this has got pace to it.
1:14:04
I think there is a new set piece every sort of 10 minutes or so.
1:14:08
I think the the the energy and the excitement of this story is
1:14:12
exemplified in episode 3, which I think is the best one of of
1:14:16
all. And that's the one with the the
1:14:18
fouls going through, through the ventilation shafts, through the
1:14:22
ice volcano, a fucking ice volcano.
1:14:25
Guys, come on. That's enough to put this
1:14:27
through on its own. And the ice or wallpaper pace,
1:14:30
whatever it is to come, is coming flying down the shaft
1:14:34
towards them. I mean, there's Daleks going
1:14:36
around the corridor shooting at people in lifts, but they're
1:14:40
stuck in a room with the Daleks approaching.
1:14:42
They're trying to go up in a fucking whole hair balloon up a
1:14:46
shaft. I mean, it's all going on in
1:14:48
that episode. And James Lark was right, boy.
1:14:51
It looks better in black and white.
1:14:53
It looked great in black and white.
1:14:56
A lot of people are saying this is reminding them of the past,
1:15:00
as if that is a bad thing, as if 1963 to 65, Doctor Who isn't
1:15:06
very good. And I remember reading and
1:15:09
running through corridors. Rob Sherman made a brilliant
1:15:12
point about how this is so jar. It's like cold water in your
1:15:15
face after frontiering space, which is political and a
1:15:18
character drama and carving out a corner of the Galaxy and doing
1:15:22
all of that. And this is just running around,
1:15:24
you know, being chased by Daleks and monsters and invisible
1:15:28
people and Princess Hancock and, you know, all this madness.
1:15:32
What I think is. Really refreshing for that, that
1:15:35
it's simple. Yeah.
1:15:36
And whilst the characters aren't particularly riversing, some of
1:15:41
them go on nice journeys. I think Codel goes on a really
1:15:43
nice journey, has a lovely scene with Perk we in Part 2 and then
1:15:47
has a really nice final scene in Part 6 where he gets to thank
1:15:51
him. You know, he's sort of found
1:15:52
bravery along the way. I think Bernard Horsfall does
1:15:55
have a sort of a dignity so that he brings it to that character.
1:16:00
So I think he's right at my other half who just adores this.
1:16:04
You know, this was another one among the stories I used to
1:16:06
seduce him back in the days. You know, I took him to a hotel
1:16:10
with a promise of watching Planet or The Dialects.
1:16:13
That was just my style for 10. But it works.
1:16:16
In fact, so much so, he's bought me.
1:16:21
A purple fro. Exactly the same colour as the
1:16:24
Spiridon and he puts it over his head.
1:16:26
Sometimes he just walks right going.
1:16:29
I hope I've not covered his spunk like with It's the Spirit.
1:16:33
It's just a very eccentric household, John, if I'm honest.
1:16:37
No, but he loves it for the same reason he loves a Terry Nation
1:16:41
story. He's got a Terry Nation drinking
1:16:43
game that he does for his podcast to watch who and you
1:16:46
know, all all the cliches in the part one like a companion going
1:16:50
off exploring on their own. The Daleks, like you said,
1:16:53
appearing at the end of the story.
1:16:56
Yeah, he, he loves all of that. And I can just see, I can see.
1:17:02
Divorce yourself from the past. Divorce yourself from being an
1:17:05
adult if you can. How old are you, Jack?
1:17:10
Oh, I'm there. A little bit older than the TV.
1:17:14
I'm round. My God, you look so young.
1:17:19
OK, this don't work then, you know, but you know, bring out
1:17:23
your inner child. And I just think there is so
1:17:25
much to enjoy here. And I want to dismiss what
1:17:28
everyone said in the comments and I can't remember which one
1:17:30
of you said it about David Maloney.
1:17:32
I think it was John. I think the direction of this
1:17:35
story is actually very good whilst not being very good
1:17:40
because they're asking him to direct an action movie in a tiny
1:17:45
BBC studio and if if someone else had been involved like
1:17:49
Pennant Robins or someone like that, you can only imagine what
1:17:52
would have hit the screen. But what he actually does is
1:17:55
very imaginative. It's very pacey, it's very
1:17:57
stylish in places. There's a scene where they're
1:18:00
sort of running down corridors and there's a fabulous
1:18:02
silhouette of a Dalek on a wall, you know, as it's coming towards
1:18:05
them. There is pace to this.
1:18:08
I I think he does a good job and once again it has got a nice
1:18:13
Cano in it which erupts with the full force at the end and
1:18:17
subsumes an entire Dalek army. Come on now, if this was enough
1:18:22
to get Mark Gatiss hard back in the day when his mother was
1:18:25
reading him the Target novel, surely, surely it'll do the same
1:18:29
for you. Yeah, it's it is unambitious.
1:18:31
It is very harking on past glories.
1:18:35
But I think in this season of really smart, really sort of
1:18:40
sophisticated Doctor Who stories, this is a bit of camp
1:18:44
old tosh, and there's absolutely a place for that.
1:18:48
Keep it. OK, so it's one apiece.
1:18:50
I've got the casting vote for once.
1:18:53
Joe, I completely and utterly agree with you.
1:18:56
Oh my God, this is. Almost.
1:18:59
This is just more of a shock. To me, the fact.
1:19:01
You agree with me or the fact it's going through?
1:19:03
I feel a bit dirty agreeing with you, but yeah, of course it's
1:19:06
going through. John, You, you said, you know,
1:19:09
if you were six at the time, you'd love this.
1:19:10
I was six at the time. I fucking love this.
1:19:13
It's brilliant. It's very easy.
1:19:16
Jack, I know you were saying, you know, in 2024 we've got
1:19:19
everything on on download, but we didn't know that, you know,
1:19:22
they didn't know that at the time.
1:19:24
They didn't know that was the future.
1:19:26
They thought this will probably just be transmitted once kids of
1:19:29
that era that were watching it wouldn't have remembered 10
1:19:32
years previously. They weren't even the target
1:19:34
books out of this stage. I think they started in 73,
1:19:37
didn't they? So they weren't even out yet.
1:19:39
OK, I had actually seen the Cushing movie because it was on
1:19:42
telly in 72. So I'd seen that and I
1:19:45
remembered that and I remembered the chasing through the
1:19:48
corridors and to see corridors of a similar look and style and
1:19:53
the Daleks pursuing now who was my doctor just made me think how
1:19:57
important this was. Because I had those twinges of
1:19:59
remembering the The Cushion movie and thinking, you know,
1:20:02
this must be something really big and dramatic and this is big
1:20:06
high stakes because. You even see one of those
1:20:08
cushion Daleks in this. Well, you do, absolutely, but I
1:20:11
don't think I was quite. I hadn't seen the Terry not
1:20:14
Nation Army. It's like the bitchiest manager
1:20:17
you've ever had, isn't it? We've.
1:20:19
Got plenty of them. Failed you bastards.
1:20:22
I'm shooting them away. And it's the anniversary.
1:20:26
So, you know, where's the harm in in harking back to some glory
1:20:29
days of before I say I was six when I saw this.
1:20:33
And I remember going to a birthday party on one of the
1:20:37
episode one of planet the Daleks.
1:20:40
And let me just indulge my memory because it's absolutely
1:20:44
sad into my mind, probably because it was the first time
1:20:46
I'd seen Doctor Who not at home. So I told the parents in advance
1:20:50
because there weren't that many birthday parties in those days.
1:20:52
So I'd I had to go, I said to the parents and before I've got
1:20:56
to see Doctor Who, yeah, I was, I was a precocious 6 year old.
1:21:00
I don't care what's going. On to your party.
1:21:01
All right, But I do have to watch Doctor Who.
1:21:04
I think I'd probably put it pretty much like that.
1:21:06
And they were lovely. So they they vacated the, the,
1:21:10
their lounge for me, gave me the space completely to myself.
1:21:14
I have the TV. It was just me and the TV and I
1:21:16
sat cross legged in front of episode one of plants the Daleks
1:21:20
and I was in absolute heaven. I remember and thinking, Oh my
1:21:24
God, the Doctor's dying at the beginning.
1:21:25
I remember thinking, Oh my God, Joe was infected.
1:21:29
Yes, I knew it was called Plants, the Daleks, but seeing
1:21:31
the Daleks at the end of the episode was just fantastic for a
1:21:35
six year old. My head was exploding.
1:21:37
But the most important thing of all was this was the first
1:21:40
episode I saw in colour and my world changed at that moment.
1:21:46
And we were talking about Joe, you said earlier about, you
1:21:48
know, it could work back better in black and white.
1:21:51
I completely disagree with you on that because I this was.
1:21:53
The first one I'd recolourized. One other the colourized guy.
1:21:57
But episode one, I mean, it's Technicolor on acid.
1:22:00
All the greens and the plants, the Reds and the shooting yellow
1:22:04
of the venom. I mean, I just couldn't believe
1:22:06
what I was seeing in front of my eyes and, you know, it was
1:22:10
absolutely seared on my memory and I can see it as if it was
1:22:13
yesterday. So for me, it's going through
1:22:15
for that reason if nothing else. Secondly, everyone's saying, oh,
1:22:19
this is Terry Nation's greatest hits.
1:22:21
OK, There are some similarities, but there are lots and lots of
1:22:24
new things in here. So the dialects are now trying
1:22:26
to use another species characteristics.
1:22:29
They're trying to get the the invisibility from the Spiridon
1:22:32
so they can make themselves invisible.
1:22:34
That's new at the time. OK, we'd had a bit the dialect
1:22:37
faction or the dialect factor before, but that to me felt
1:22:41
really new at the time. Also then the dialects are
1:22:43
experimenting with biological warfare.
1:22:45
That's quite telling of the time, you know, OK, it's not not
1:22:48
on the nose politics that we've got elsewhere in this season,
1:22:51
but you know, June warfare was being talked about at that time.
1:22:54
The dialects are doing it. Don't you not happier?
1:22:56
Well, that dialect realises that he's pretty.
1:22:58
Effective. Like a total bitchy breakdown,
1:23:02
don't he? I can never leave here.
1:23:04
I'm. Stuck with you for.
1:23:05
The rest of the world, I feel. Sorry for him.
1:23:07
That's brilliant. And then you've got this vast
1:23:10
army being being put in suspension so that they could
1:23:13
come forth and conquer the Galaxy.
1:23:15
I mean, these are good new ideas.
1:23:17
You've got ice volcanoes, Joe, you're absolutely right.
1:23:20
Brilliant anti gravity discs. The Dark.
1:23:23
The Dalek. Was flying up the when is the
1:23:25
first time we see a Dalek fly? You've got the plane of stones
1:23:28
at night time so you get a real kind of day and night of the
1:23:31
planet. So fuck all you lot, let's say.
1:23:33
Obviously just repeating lots before there's loads of new
1:23:36
stuff in here and it's brilliant.
1:23:39
And my third reason is John Purkley.
1:23:41
I'm not going to kind of mention him as one of my reasons
1:23:43
elsewhere, so I'm going to bring him out now.
1:23:45
He never gives a bad performance in Doctor.
1:23:48
I think you guys are right when you say he labours a little bit
1:23:51
with some of the kind of moralizing speeches and he does
1:23:55
about, I mean, the one in episode 2 where even
1:23:57
acknowledges that was a tutorial on bravery.
1:24:00
That's a little bit more than a little bit forced.
1:24:03
I think he knows, that's why. He does know.
1:24:09
He does know I like the anti war message at the end.
1:24:11
I think he pulls that one off better.
1:24:13
But it's those moments and he would say those were his moments
1:24:16
of charm that were specially written into the script for him.
1:24:18
But his real moments of charm are the quieter moments.
1:24:21
The best bit for him in this story is when he first meets
1:24:23
Joe. He thinks she's dead in episode
1:24:25
one. He meets her in episode 4 and
1:24:28
he's delighted he meets her. He puts his arm around, he takes
1:24:31
away to go and have a quiet conversation with him and they
1:24:33
huddle together and have a chat. That chemistry between Katie
1:24:37
Manning and Jumpert with that absolutely tangible and it comes
1:24:40
through that is perk with moments of charm.
1:24:43
But apart from that, you know, he's all over the place, isn't
1:24:46
he? He's he's commanding.
1:24:48
Every time he's on screen, you're looking at him, whether
1:24:50
he's strolling around the location, whether he's, you
1:24:53
know, throwing Daleks down corridors, whether he's winning
1:24:57
over the falls, breaking into the city, breaking out of the
1:25:00
city, going up the shaft on the parachute.
1:25:02
He is totally like Tom Baker will be afterwards.
1:25:05
He is the doctor at this stage and he absolutely takes us long
1:25:08
for the ride. So absolutely 100% plants that
1:25:13
Alex is going through. You know, I will say that, but
1:25:15
you know, a bit of the plane of stones where it goes to night
1:25:18
time and then those terrible. Come on.
1:25:22
I will say that's awful, but I've since bought a pair of
1:25:25
lasers, so when we turn the lights off at night, I'll get
1:25:28
the lasers going and go. Oh.
1:25:29
It takes things with the plates of.
1:25:31
Stones. No, I don't moment in my house,
1:25:34
you know. But when you see a cat.
1:25:35
'S eyes at night, they can be lit up, you know.
1:25:38
Come on, have a bit of imagination guys.
1:25:40
That's. Brilliant.
1:25:41
It's going. Through.
1:25:43
Sob. These two guests are so wrong.
1:25:45
They're. Very.
1:25:47
Smart. Like what did you do?
1:25:49
What turn on that? Joe, go for it.
1:25:52
Pick your story. So tough.
1:25:56
Something I love, something I don't.
1:25:58
Something I love, something I don't, something I don't.
1:26:01
I would like to destroy the three doctors if I may, which is
1:26:08
just unbelievably shit. 10th. Anniversary story for Doctor
1:26:14
Who. And I mean, like, I've talked
1:26:17
about some pretty ropey effects elsewhere, but honestly, this is
1:26:22
a series of truly inept special effects in this.
1:26:26
That dreadful BLOB that's coming out of the drain.
1:26:30
The jail guard costumes that have been knocked nicked from JN
1:26:33
TS latest epic at the end of Brighton Pier.
1:26:37
You know, the quantum singularity, which is supposed
1:26:40
to be this huge epic. Have you seen the book?
1:26:44
Have you seen the illustrations? This huge echoing chamber, you
1:26:48
know, with this enormous flame raising up?
1:26:50
No, it's just a bit of dry ice, very pumping limply out of a
1:26:55
hole in the BBC floor. Oh, it's awful.
1:26:58
And oh God, good grief, of all the production errors in this
1:27:01
story, that depiction of Gallifrey as the Wackaday set?
1:27:07
Oh, it's just so awful, isn't it?
1:27:10
In, in, in. Every respect.
1:27:13
I mean, the director didn't have a hope shooting in that studio.
1:27:16
So he just does it basically all in long shot and puts it all in
1:27:19
because it's so hideous. But I I think it is outrageous
1:27:24
that this is basically the the, the main story of the season.
1:27:28
It's the big anniversary special, and they've just saved
1:27:31
no money for it at all. And Lenny Main is not a terrible
1:27:35
director, I don't think. I think Curse of Peloton is very
1:27:39
atmospheric and beautifully lit. I think Hand of Fear has got
1:27:43
some wonderful set pieces in it. I don't know what went wrong
1:27:47
here, but from scene to scene, it's so turgid.
1:27:52
Yeah. So I think that how this looks
1:27:55
and I think visually this is one of the worst top two stories
1:28:01
we've seen yet and would see to come.
1:28:04
I really like the idea of the tragedy of Omega.
1:28:07
I've recently listened to The Big Finish or The O Omega and
1:28:12
that truth. Skillfully, it's Neve Fountain
1:28:15
to it skillfully leans into this idea of a misunderstood genius
1:28:21
banished to a black hole trying to salvage his reputation,
1:28:25
beautifully played by Ian Collier.
1:28:29
But unfortunately. You.
1:28:30
Give that wrong to. Stephen Thorn And once again
1:28:34
we've got someone who's perfect for the end of the pier and JN
1:28:37
TS latest panto. 'Cause he's just.
1:28:40
Screaming his head off. There's no subtlety in that
1:28:43
performance whatsoever that people go on about that.
1:28:46
That how he. Gives when he realizes he's.
1:28:52
He's like, oh, it's just agonisingly terrible.
1:28:56
Such an interesting idea. It's a story packed full of
1:28:59
ambitious ideas. Of course it is, because it's
1:29:01
Bob Baker and Dave Martin and they've got huge imagination and
1:29:04
no knowledge at all of what BBC can actually pull off in a
1:29:08
studio. And we we go through this
1:29:10
rigmarole again and again and again.
1:29:12
I think they do 1A season, don't they?
1:29:14
From this point on, yeah. Pretty much.
1:29:16
We we have that trouble with the mutant scores of acts.
1:29:19
They just about managed to do Armageddon Factor.
1:29:21
It just limps to a conclusion. Yeah, they just like someone
1:29:25
needs to just sit them down and go, guys.
1:29:27
And we know, we know you've got huge creativity in you, but just
1:29:30
just Doctor Who, you know, bring it, bring it down a bit.
1:29:33
Maybe. Maybe they don't watch their
1:29:34
stories when they go out. Maybe that's just it.
1:29:37
Well, so so conceptually, I think Ohmic is really
1:29:40
interesting in execution. I think all of the interesting
1:29:45
ideas are are lost and even Barry Lettson, terrace sticks,
1:29:48
Lord Stephen Falls performance in this.
1:29:51
But it's the most pantomimic I think you're going to see until
1:29:56
possibly Graham Crowdon in the Horns of Nylon, but he's trying
1:30:00
to give a pantomime performance. Yeah, yeah, it it doesn't work
1:30:03
for me at all. And the the worst thing about
1:30:06
this story and this is, you know, I'm sure it'd be in the
1:30:08
comments. You'll probably mention it later
1:30:10
on. The fucking stupid Brigadier in
1:30:14
this, like somebody said how brilliant the surprise was in
1:30:18
the Green Death that Mike Yates was the mole inside global
1:30:26
chemicals. And that's because the then the
1:30:28
Brigadier has a lion going. Well, I'm not such a dunderhead
1:30:31
as you all thought yet. Well, we all thought because we
1:30:34
watched the Three Doctors where he was so stupid throughout, I
1:30:37
mean. Just I don't.
1:30:39
Understand how this remarkably clever man in 67 I suddenly just
1:30:45
stopped accepting the evidence of his own eyes to doctors, the
1:30:50
fact that they're not on the same planet.
1:30:52
Like he knows all this stuff can happen and he just refuses to
1:30:55
admit. I know Nicholas Courtney plays
1:30:57
it for comic effect and it is very funny.
1:30:59
Jesus, go and listen to Katie Manning on the commentary.
1:31:02
She's apoplexic with laughter watching Nicholas Courtney
1:31:05
deliver his knives and he gets some zingers, but it's really
1:31:09
damaging to his credibility. Do you not Bent?
1:31:12
Benson's got one line, hasn't he?
1:31:13
When he said, oh, I think it's all been a bit too much for him.
1:31:16
Yeah, and you think? Oh.
1:31:17
That's, that's interesting. Are they almost trying to
1:31:19
suggest that he's he's having a bit of a mental breakdown at
1:31:21
this point? Well, we do get that immortal
1:31:23
undead, don't we? Yeah, exactly.
1:31:25
Maybe this is where? We're being off work, so does
1:31:29
that do anything to him? Maybe, maybe, I don't know, I I
1:31:34
Nicholas Cory is a very funny man and he's given funny lines.
1:31:37
And so they do land. But I, I can't, I don't
1:31:42
understand how this is the same character that I watched in
1:31:45
season seven. It with such a departure.
1:31:47
The the show is relaxed, Courtney's relaxed, the writers
1:31:51
relaxed, and he's just no longer believable in any way, shape or
1:31:55
form. You do you want to shake him and
1:31:57
go? Are you mad?
1:31:58
Like clearly. This is all going on.
1:32:01
I think it's fucking Chroma for God's sake.
1:32:05
So yeah. So it's cheap.
1:32:07
I don't like the villain. I don't like they're here.
1:32:09
I think there are obviously things to praise about this
1:32:12
story. The the three doctors, you know,
1:32:15
Patrick Trout and is magic in this shaman zoo.
1:32:20
What's the line he says about The Beatles?
1:32:22
I've forgotten it now and. When he says play is that song,
1:32:27
he is me and I am you. And we're.
1:32:29
All together. All together, COO COO COO.
1:32:32
Oh. That's Joe, isn't it?
1:32:33
Yeah, the song from The Beatles. Oh, we're set.
1:32:36
How does that? Go.
1:32:37
The best slide he gets is when he goes.
1:32:39
Here I was. Out for a stroke with my friend.
1:32:42
And then there's horrible grape Jelly came up to me.
1:32:45
He's he's so funny. So there's so much to enjoy in
1:32:49
this as well. But those three things I think
1:32:52
are enough to sabotage all the good work.
1:32:56
Oh, hang on. One last thing.
1:32:57
The sets, the sets of Omega's palace, the dream palace of
1:33:02
Omega in the world of antimatter, otherwise known as
1:33:06
the clay pit quarry down the road.
1:33:08
Oh, Jesus Christ. Another actually, let's take
1:33:11
them down and give them for JNT. It's it's not great, I don't
1:33:18
think. Yeah, it was a huge ratings
1:33:20
here. People love it.
1:33:21
I think it's a bit shoddy, a bit embarrassing.
1:33:25
Well, let's come to the comments because I, I think you're going
1:33:28
you, I think you're going to be surprised the the comments, I
1:33:31
think are pretty much in line with what you're saying.
1:33:34
So Jason Thompson says both a fun celebration of the show and
1:33:37
also an excuse in how not to do a fun celebration of the show.
1:33:41
Looks so cheap and tatty. You'd have thought they'd have
1:33:44
allocated a bit more budget. And it's one of the shorter
1:33:47
stories this year. It still has obvious padding.
1:33:50
Maybe Gillespie Pratt. It's Doctor Who's 10th birthday
1:33:52
party and we're all invited. A warm hug of a story, he says.
1:33:57
Full of classic moments and wonderful dialogue.
1:33:59
Pertwee Entrouten's rivalry on and off the screen gives some
1:34:02
fantastic chemistry. I won't hear a word against
1:34:05
this, or you will actually. You just heard quite a few,
1:34:08
yeah, Tom Newson says a flimsy production and strange plot is
1:34:12
worth it for Trouting and Pertwee together.
1:34:14
It's a shame Hart was too I'll to fully take part.
1:34:17
Stephen B. An incredible story, made better
1:34:19
by the target book, but frustratingly showing the
1:34:22
production limitations typical of the Pertwee era.
1:34:24
Thorns Omega as Oh, help me out. As for us, thank you.
1:34:29
The master blacksmith to the Olympians only to be cruelly
1:34:32
cast down by them is full of pathos.
1:34:35
On the page it is. Yeah, not on the screen, sorry.
1:34:38
Dumping says ah, the bounce between Trout and Purby and
1:34:42
Hanoi is superb and the heart of the story.
1:34:44
This is Maybe's Benton's finest hour.
1:34:46
The Briggs. The Briggs reaction to Unit HQ
1:34:50
being transported to another universe is priceless.
1:34:52
Chroma Myers. Exactly James Log.
1:34:56
It has design, wit and even acting style of a local panto.
1:35:01
Thank you James. Yeah, I enjoy it.
1:35:03
And trout and can rescue almost anything.
1:35:05
But compare this to the highlights of season nine and
1:35:08
consider the significance they knew it would have.
1:35:11
That's not really an excuse. Daniel Rawnsley said the delight
1:35:14
is watching Trout and steal the show away from Pertwee who
1:35:17
spends 4 episodes trying not to notice.
1:35:20
Omagate is the original lonely God and the scenes with him
1:35:23
briefly turned Doctor Who into tragic comic Greek theatre.
1:35:26
It also gifted us that Brig double take.
1:35:29
Oh, is that what Greek theatres like?
1:35:30
Like this? Yeah, I've heard.
1:35:32
So I won't bother then. Daniel Knight suffers the same
1:35:35
smug complacency as the Thai monster.
1:35:37
It's true. Double back-to-back, I think the
1:35:40
middle of the purple era, that's just the weakest spot.
1:35:43
Feels as if no one is really trying because it's a
1:35:45
celebration. Trouting is great, but there's
1:35:48
nothing like the Second Doctor. Dave, Rennie says this has a lot
1:35:51
of issues, the Jelly monsters, the Brig acting like a buffoon,
1:35:54
Omegas palace, etcetera. But I really like it.
1:35:57
Mrs. Ollis should have had her own spin off.
1:36:00
Dave, why aren't you on Mrs. Ollis?
1:36:03
It's a spin off series. I'm not quite sure where that's
1:36:05
gonna go. Don't give Big Finish ideas, all
1:36:08
right? Coming soon to a box set near
1:36:10
you. This is all this.
1:36:11
Affection or supper? Be ready tonight, Who knows?
1:36:16
She could end every story, end tease, ready Darren and lit.
1:36:22
Randall's nice to have Trout back his Comic Relief, but this
1:36:25
is crap. The production is dire.
1:36:28
Terrible set design work, too much Bellowy, pretty boring
1:36:31
really. Man, he managed to say all my
1:36:33
points in about 3 words. Big Orange, Michael says,
1:36:36
creates the template for future multi doctor stories.
1:36:39
Trout and steals the show. The target novel is better.
1:36:42
I say keep it for nostalgia's sake.
1:36:44
Matt for ways some great ideas young me found only because
1:36:47
missing face terrifying when I read the target book.
1:36:49
Let down by a few pantomime sets, a few wobbly jellies, and
1:36:53
the nadir of the Briggs characterization agrees with me.
1:36:57
Trout and Benton combo is a delight though, and it is fun.
1:37:01
Lucy McCall says I have a lot of affection for this.
1:37:03
It's I think it's possible to find the Joe God's cute and
1:37:06
still see Omagard's a credible threat because of Stephen
1:37:09
Vaughn's performance. And I know the Brig is becoming
1:37:11
the butt of the jokes now, but I love his gentleness to Joe and I
1:37:15
didn't know when I was well off. He's delivered brilliantly.
1:37:18
Actually what he says. Joe what?
1:37:21
He's trying to convince her to go back to work.
1:37:23
That is very well done. One moment Michael Storm the
1:37:27
Bristol boys pack out big ideas that are slightly out of reach
1:37:30
of the budget Slightly, but the story is solid and shouty.
1:37:34
Steven's performance is a perfect fit.
1:37:36
It's primeval cry of anguish when he realizes he has less
1:37:39
substance and the scenery of Crossroads is utterly
1:37:41
terrifying. The 1st and 2nd Doctors feel
1:37:44
like a bit like leaning into caricature, possibly to emphasis
1:37:48
perk we as the current Doctor or to Path or to pacify his ego.
1:37:53
Complexicated, Cookie said. A perfect celebration of 10
1:37:56
years of the show, telling a story with legitimate threats
1:37:59
and giving us a bittersweet conclusion and surprising us
1:38:02
with a happy twist of the doctor's exile coming to an end.
1:38:05
Omega is a superb enemy and I love the jail guards.
1:38:08
Plus maybe the best closing line in all of Who.
1:38:12
Supper ready. Gareth Bale, Brill.
1:38:15
The only issue is screen reflections on Hartle's last
1:38:18
performers. The only issue.
1:38:20
Did you hear that? Joel Ellen says a fun romp, but
1:38:24
any deep analysis of the plot will probably come up short.
1:38:27
And finally, you'll be pleased to hear LSJ, That's Luke Sims
1:38:32
Jenkins if anyone who wants to send an e-mail.
1:38:35
I love this as a kid. Trout on out shines his
1:38:37
successor and has better chemistry with the regulars.
1:38:40
Can he stay please? OK, so Joe, this is a woeful
1:38:47
production. It starts in such a low key way.
1:38:50
You know, we moaned about Battlefield starting with two
1:38:52
old bidders picking out some azaleas.
1:38:55
This is such a low key start to a big anniversary story.
1:38:59
Then we get the gel guards and they're worse than those
1:39:01
monsters from the Tomorrow people that you screen grabbed
1:39:04
when you recently watched it. Holy Moses, What's that?
1:39:08
Oh, we've we've got a palace that's made out two bits of
1:39:10
cardboard. They can't even afford a throne,
1:39:12
so he gets a little bench to sit on.
1:39:15
We've got a puff of smoke for the singularity that almost goes
1:39:18
out to one point. And the most heinous of all
1:39:20
shot. No one talks about it and I
1:39:22
don't know why. It's the worst shot and I would
1:39:24
have sucked any man on the shots spot for it.
1:39:27
So in episode 3, Benton and the Brig come out and Trout and come
1:39:32
out of the TARDIS and they're in UNIT and they're shot in front
1:39:35
of the TARDIS. The doors are wide open and you
1:39:38
completely see the inside of the empty box.
1:39:42
I don't think that's ever been done before.
1:39:43
You can see the blinds in the crack.
1:39:45
In the. Corner of the.
1:39:47
Tardis. And it's on screen for about a
1:39:49
minute, a minute and a half. It's shocking.
1:39:51
The camera just sits on that and no one says, guys, maybe we
1:39:55
should take that again with the door shut.
1:39:57
It's terrible. Rd.
1:39:58
What but? Rd.
1:40:00
Can I just ask our guests? Yeah, I'm just going to do a
1:40:04
little vote now. Who thinks Rod is now going to
1:40:07
say why he's keeping it in John? 100% I think he's.
1:40:13
Going to Yeah, I think we might be about to say for pause.
1:40:19
Over to you, Rod. Oh come on, you miserable
1:40:26
scrounge. This is lovely.
1:40:28
What is wrong with you people? It's brilliant and I can I can
1:40:32
put hundreds of reasons. Why they haven't spoken yet?
1:40:35
I know I'm talking. I'm talking to the listeners who
1:40:37
are all mad. Yeah, it does look really,
1:40:40
really shoddy. I cannot and I'm not going to
1:40:43
even attempt to try to make up for that.
1:40:46
The only one I will say maybe is Omegas Palace in our quotes per
1:40:52
we does say that everything omegas created is is an
1:40:55
illusion. So maybe it's a bit like
1:40:56
Morphotron in the keys and Mariners, they're seeing this
1:40:59
magnificent palace. We see a shitty old sax.
1:41:02
So yeah, maybe my three real reasons for doing it is yes,
1:41:09
this is a celebration. But you know what?
1:41:11
It's faithful to the show. So you know, over the years
1:41:14
we've now got lots of anniversary specials, some more
1:41:17
successful. For others, they usually do
1:41:19
something really grandiose. So like for the 20th, Joe, you
1:41:23
and I were talking about it on the season 20 commentary.
1:41:27
For the 20th, they ditch those kind of small, thoughtful sci-fi
1:41:31
stories and go for a big nostalgia fest that's kind of
1:41:34
not really in keeping with what's around there.
1:41:36
In the 50th we introduce a previously unseen Dr. and
1:41:40
introduce a whole new storyline that goes off in a tangent.
1:41:43
And dare I mention the 30th when we introduced 3D and Albert
1:41:46
Square to Doctor Who. I know you love that.
1:41:50
Skill my heart. So anniversaries usually try and
1:41:53
do something completely different to what's going
1:41:55
around. This I think is quite unique,
1:41:58
but it brings it's returning elements into the structure and
1:42:02
the format of the show that Barry Lats and Terrance Dix have
1:42:05
created. So we've still got the Brig,
1:42:07
we've got Benson, we've got Unit, we've got Bessie, we've
1:42:10
got Joe and they are meeting the celebrate.
1:42:14
So the celebration is coming to them rather than a celebration
1:42:17
going out. And you could even, I thought
1:42:20
about this, you could actually even remove some of those
1:42:22
celebratory elements and you still have a a relatively
1:42:25
workable script that fits tonally with the rest of season
1:42:28
10. The fact that on top of that,
1:42:30
you then layer Troughton and Hartnell and they get to play
1:42:34
within the kind of playground that that's been created by this
1:42:37
production team makes it feel more quarry.
1:42:41
It just makes it feel more natural and organic to me rather
1:42:43
than some convoluted concept just for the sake of it.
1:42:46
Because I think the joy is seeing how these additional
1:42:49
elements fit, you know, whether how they interact or complement
1:42:52
or or contrast and conflict with the the things that we know in
1:42:57
the universe at the moment. I think it's that blend that
1:42:59
makes this really successful. My second reason, I'm going to
1:43:03
completely disagree with you, Joe.
1:43:05
I think this is all about the performances.
1:43:07
So as I said, I cannot deny that the sets are shit.
1:43:10
And it kind of reminds me of that period of theatre in kind
1:43:13
of the late 80s when all they did in theatre was have black
1:43:16
sets and maybe one black chair on stage.
1:43:19
And the audience was supposed to imagine these wild, beautiful
1:43:22
settings. Didn't matter whether it was
1:43:24
Russia, outer space, back living room.
1:43:26
It was just a bloody black set with a black chair.
1:43:29
Oh. You just said that's what we had
1:43:30
to do. Yeah, we had to do that, and you
1:43:33
kind of have to do it here because the sets are terrible in
1:43:35
this. But this lives and dies by the
1:43:38
performances, and I think the performances are great.
1:43:40
If Poetry walks in to Omikus Castle and says it's most
1:43:43
impressive, I'm going to believe him.
1:43:45
OK John, you know, you're in total control.
1:43:48
I believe you that it's most impressive.
1:43:50
Stephen Thorne, I disagree with you completely.
1:43:52
I think he gives a brilliant performance and he's one of the
1:43:56
greatest film roles in Classic Who.
1:43:59
He's complex, he's flawed, he's full of rage, despair and we
1:44:03
feel sorry for him. I think we do feel sorry for
1:44:05
him. Don't listen to Omega.
1:44:08
All right? OK, That's how you do it.
1:44:11
I know, I know. But I still love Stephen Thorne
1:44:14
and I The one thing I really disagree with you is that scream
1:44:17
when he realizes he's empty and disappeared.
1:44:19
I think that's like an animal in pain.
1:44:21
I think it's, it's very heart wrenching that moment.
1:44:25
Love that. And then on top of that, you've
1:44:27
got Patrick Trouts. And I mean he is just superb in
1:44:30
this. I think Trouts and certainly in
1:44:32
all his subsequent reappearances, he just brings
1:44:35
gold. Even if the store is shit like
1:44:37
the two doctors, he is absolutely gold and he's gold
1:44:40
here. And how did you not mention Joe
1:44:42
seeing, you know, the boss, William Hartnell on screen for
1:44:46
one last time as the. Doctor, OH.
1:44:47
This is nowhere near Hartnell's High.
1:44:51
Oh, I've seen. It's.
1:44:52
Struggling and. It's really.
1:44:54
Sad to watch an I'll old man struggling.
1:44:57
Because even his. Glories of the past, even his
1:45:00
voice has gone. You can you hear flashes of it,
1:45:02
but there's moments when his voice has gone.
1:45:04
We. Were talking about Hartnell in
1:45:06
one, weren't we? How?
1:45:08
How you couldn't take your eyes off him?
1:45:10
Yeah. What do?
1:45:11
You think about what do you think about the power of the
1:45:14
Doctor where they're wheeled out, the ghost of William
1:45:18
Russell? He's in one scene and he gets
1:45:23
one line. It's hardly offensive, but but
1:45:26
Hartwell's integral sort of What kind of intervals?
1:45:29
He was going to be wasn't. He was going to be there.
1:45:31
Had to write it back and just shoot.
1:45:33
Him in his garage. He's there.
1:45:35
Oh, he, he. Gets him.
1:45:36
He gets a cameo in every episode there.
1:45:37
They do spread in between each of the four episodes you always
1:45:40
get. Don't like that part though.
1:45:41
Yeah, Bing Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing.
1:45:43
Bing. Music he gets.
1:45:44
But you know what? He wants to do it.
1:45:46
He was absolutely committed to doing it.
1:45:48
He was too. I'll his wife didn't want him to
1:45:49
do it. He wanted to do it.
1:45:51
So God bless him. I'm glad we've got him back for
1:45:53
one last moment. And my third and last reason,
1:45:56
this is one of the best shack off guns in all of classic
1:46:00
Doctor Who. Troutons Recorder resolves the
1:46:02
plot. This is not a hexachromite gas.
1:46:06
From where is the deep? We see Troutons recorder right
1:46:10
from the very beginning. It's what brings him into the
1:46:12
story is Joe holding up the recorder and Trout and grabbing
1:46:15
it and popping into existence on the TARDIS.
1:46:17
He's always talking about the recorder all the way through the
1:46:20
story and we think it's either a bit of comedy stick or he
1:46:23
sometimes uses a plot device. So when he witters are on about
1:46:26
it to Omega it's to piss O Mcgruff to see how much
1:46:29
self-control omers got. So we talk about the recorder
1:46:32
constantly, but I bet you nobody realised it was that damn
1:46:35
recorder that was going to resolve the plot.
1:46:37
And that's what helps destroy Royal Lucas World.
1:46:40
It's jealous. That recorder inside the middle
1:46:43
of the TARDIS console though. It falls into it.
1:46:46
We don't ask questions, but it's it's a great plot point.
1:46:51
It's Steven Moffett levels of hiding things in plain sight.
1:46:55
It's worth. Remembering you know you.
1:46:56
Didn't. Put the Steven Moffett
1:46:58
anniversary through. Let's not mention that again.
1:47:01
Let's not. Go and you did put the.
1:47:02
I am putting this the one through.
1:47:04
And I'm putting this one through because this is brilliant.
1:47:07
And you? Didn't put the terrorist
1:47:08
tickets. Let's not, let's not go there,
1:47:11
Jack. Let's move swiftly on.
1:47:13
Let's go to Jack. Jack.
1:47:15
OK, so, well, a little bit of context before I begin.
1:47:22
So growing up, obviously the younger, the youngest person on
1:47:25
this call anyway, my don't rub. It.
1:47:29
In my experiences with classic who were obviously not, you
1:47:35
know, watching me on broadcast or anything like that.
1:47:38
I've seen when I was younger, we had things like, you know, the,
1:47:43
the Horror Channel Gold, but that would show a lot of mainly
1:47:49
some purpose and Tom Baker's. But largely when I wanted to
1:47:53
watch a Doctor Who because we didn't have, you know, the money
1:47:56
for kids every, you know, VHS on the shelf, I had to go onto the
1:48:02
Internet, onto either YouTube or whatever, proceed with YouTube
1:48:07
and type in things like, you know, best old Doctor Who
1:48:11
moments, you know, most exciting old Doctor Who moments, you
1:48:16
know, Daleks, old Doctor Who, Cybermen, old Doctor Who, you
1:48:20
know, and then obviously finding out that the Doctor Who's did in
1:48:25
fact meet each other was very exciting.
1:48:28
And so I thought, OK, what are the ones where they all, you
1:48:30
know, show me magic computer, show me old Doctor Who's meeting
1:48:35
each other. And so we had, you know,
1:48:39
compilation themes of the whole of the entrapment purpose stuff
1:48:44
from the three doctors, you know, the The Beatles stuff, the
1:48:49
Dandy McLean, the great moment with the flip of the coin and,
1:48:55
you know, the gag culminating with trout and flipping the coin
1:48:59
and perks. We grab it in midair and I
1:49:02
thought, wow, you know, three Doctors, they're having fun,
1:49:05
they're joking around with each other.
1:49:07
I wonder if there's any, you know, fun and exciting plot
1:49:10
twists coming up. Well, there was a pretty fun and
1:49:14
exciting plot. Well, maybe not fun exciting
1:49:17
plot twists coming up, which is that when I typed in the Three
1:49:22
Doctors Best Moments compilation into YouTube, I've in fact
1:49:27
already seen the three Doctors because that's all the three
1:49:31
doctors had to offer me and so I'm going to have to throw it in
1:49:35
the bin. Unfortunately, A5 to 10 minute
1:49:40
YouTube Riddle Patrick Troutman John Perth of doing the
1:49:47
Morecambe and Wise at each other was just about all the three
1:49:54
doctors had. I mean, Rob is funny, if
1:49:57
interesting that you pull up the terrible moment in episode 3
1:50:01
would be with the TARDIS that you can't, you know, see on the
1:50:05
inside of. And I thought, what a great
1:50:08
encapsulation of this story, completely and utterly empty.
1:50:16
Empty production. I mean, pantomimes would be a
1:50:20
shame of some of the sets in this story, you know, empty
1:50:25
production, 20 performances. You know, William Hartnell, I
1:50:30
understand that. The myriad of complications with
1:50:34
which cast members can we get back.
1:50:37
You know, how much can we give William Hartnell to do?
1:50:40
I know that Big Finisher are looking at adapting what would
1:50:43
have been the original sort of script for this story, and I
1:50:47
understand all that, but I can only take that it has context
1:50:53
for what I'm what I'm watching, as we all do.
1:50:57
And yeah, I just think if it's just so much lacking from this
1:51:05
and not just what it could have been.
1:51:08
You know, I Joe obviously mentioned the terrible
1:51:12
California Time Lord share with this, but it's arguably worse
1:51:18
than the sort of Arc and Infinity, you know, called the
1:51:22
1980s stuff because at least that's why and that.
1:51:27
Is saying something right? It's.
1:51:28
I just. Said something in Arc of
1:51:30
Infinity. I wrote down the name of one of
1:51:33
the actors, Moy Pershel, who plays the president of the Time
1:51:37
Lord Council, I believe, and I wrote his name down because he
1:51:40
could put a terrible performance.
1:51:43
What one of the worst performances I've ever seen in
1:51:46
any Doctor Who saw in any medium.
1:51:49
You know that, but but you can't it's but you can't just know
1:51:55
emotion behind it. Just don't really, really.
1:51:58
I don't. Think you're.
1:51:59
Doing that dramatically. Dramatically enough, he goes,
1:52:02
but you can't it's. Terrible.
1:52:06
I mean, I had to write his name down because I had to know who
1:52:09
was to blame for this. It's just an awful performance.
1:52:13
I think he has died, so you can't really go after him.
1:52:16
You know he suffered enough. Well, I'm not, you know, I can't
1:52:19
criticize the whole of this life.
1:52:20
I can criticize those, you know, three days, years on set, I can
1:52:24
criticize those. Yeah.
1:52:28
I mean, just. Yeah.
1:52:30
I mean, we talked about the, the caricature, the the of the
1:52:34
Brigadier. And you know what departure this
1:52:37
is from? I mean, you watch the Green
1:52:39
Death, which comes after this, and it's like, oh, the the
1:52:42
actual Brigadier returns finally.
1:52:45
You know, it's actually what it was like in season seven.
1:52:50
But like I say, the trout and purple stuff and when Hartman
1:52:54
eventually joins in is fun. Is, you know, solid interactions
1:53:01
that are best watched in the YouTube compilations.
1:53:05
Will if you pause this podcast, go into YouTube, type in three
1:53:09
doctors That that that's the material there that that
1:53:13
sustains this story. But yeah, just but but Mr.
1:53:19
Holland stuck. I mean, at the beginning and the
1:53:22
end. I mean, it's just so I just
1:53:26
can't imagine. But it'd be like it for five
1:53:29
doctors began and it ended with the castle animal, you know,
1:53:33
David Dr. began and ended with, you know, the rabbit, the
1:53:37
temple. It is such, such a bizarre lack
1:53:42
of focus and yeah, I mean, just a little bit.
1:53:48
An empty YouTube highlights reel, a 90 minute TikTok.
1:53:57
Yeah, you. Can tell he's young can't you
1:54:00
YouTube TikTok? What's all this nonsense?
1:54:04
One thing I do want to say though, is you don't know how
1:54:06
lucky you are because I would have killed as a young man to be
1:54:10
able to go onto YouTube, whatever that was, and type in
1:54:14
Doctor Who classic moments. So we got.
1:54:17
None of that. Oh, exactly.
1:54:19
Bloody hell. Lucky, although if you are bored
1:54:21
with us just go onto YouTube and type in strictly come hamster
1:54:24
highlights actually. You're all getting 5 minutes,
1:54:27
no? I'm.
1:54:28
Joking. I'm joking.
1:54:29
You got 16 hours instead. Yeah, exactly.
1:54:33
Punishment. Oh yeah, John, you have the
1:54:35
casting vote as one. Piece Power No.
1:54:40
See see, I I'm tempted to go one way just to see Joe's will be
1:54:44
all things shall be destroyed. All things.
1:54:49
That's The thing is Joe also pointed out earlier with Planet
1:54:54
of the Daleks. It's watching this when you were
1:54:58
seven. I got this for the five faces of
1:55:01
repeat season when I was seven and I absolutely bloody fell in
1:55:06
love with it. I think it's probably the point
1:55:09
I really hit became a fan because yes, it's a pantomime,
1:55:14
but it's equally it's got this kind of legendary aspect to it.
1:55:17
So it so what's Doctor Who, but a kind of, you know, mythic
1:55:21
storytelling dressed up as a pantomime.
1:55:23
That's. A good.
1:55:25
Point. That's all of Doctor.
1:55:27
Who and instantly and my multis. I totally fell in love with
1:55:34
Patrick Trout. Patrick Trout isn't playing his
1:55:36
doctor here. He's playing a kind of essence
1:55:40
of his doctor. He's kind of defining what the
1:55:41
performances of doctors when they come back up, you know,
1:55:44
you're not the star of the show, you're not the main man.
1:55:47
So he's so he's kind of playing off Purley so beautifully.
1:55:52
That relationship between them is so.
1:55:55
But from the moment they turn up, you know, the me, me
1:56:00
gorgeous, you know, and and we know this with Bynes because
1:56:04
that we needed to know his life because he wasn't most secure.
1:56:06
His acting was trend like to imprised, mess around a bit and
1:56:11
you can tell that there's different energy between them
1:56:13
and it's what how was the whole story?
1:56:17
Oh my God, I I love the kind of mythic thing, but I was watching
1:56:20
it. So I was kind of going.
1:56:21
Have we been sold so bullshit all this time?
1:56:24
Because, Oh my God, to me, I'm just going hang on.
1:56:27
You know, he got in the way of his own, you know, his own
1:56:30
solar, anything blowing up, right?
1:56:34
I think home is just a great big bullshit.
1:56:36
He is the Elon Musk he was just like he is, you know, he doesn't
1:56:43
necessarily know what he's doing.
1:56:44
He just got in the wrong way and he got trapped in this dark
1:56:47
pocket dimension. And again, like Elon Musk, he
1:56:51
completely lacks imagination. Really.
1:56:54
We could send Elon Musk to a black hole in another.
1:56:59
Time if I could put him there first.
1:57:00
Money off so yeah, maybe you know everyone's gone Just bought
1:57:07
this myth and Nah, Nah, he's a bullshitter and that's why you
1:57:11
can see everything's gone wrong for him in this black hole.
1:57:13
He's been withered away. He thinks he can get away with
1:57:16
it. He's totally selfish.
1:57:17
So, yeah, I, I, I don't think it diminishes him as all to say
1:57:23
that. But then you just look at it and
1:57:28
you go, it's, it's the also this metaphor for creativity, you
1:57:31
know, and I don't know if it can maybe come from Barry and
1:57:35
Terrace. Maybe it came from Bob Baker and
1:57:36
Dave Mark. It's really hard to come up with
1:57:38
a good idea and execute it. I know we go.
1:57:41
Yeah, yeah. I think in the novelisation it
1:57:43
said, you know, he created this, this whole wonderful, beautiful
1:57:46
world and it gradually decayed, which has a lovely tragic
1:57:51
feeling to it. Maybe just never had those ideas
1:57:53
in the 1st place. Yes, it's tough to make those
1:57:58
acts. It's coming up again a metaphor
1:57:59
for the show. You're on the treadmill.
1:58:02
How do you keep coming up with stuff time after time after time
1:58:06
and it wears you away and creatively wears away completely
1:58:12
and I completely, I think Lenny may do a terrible job.
1:58:15
He's careless at times, but there's stuff like the casting
1:58:18
of the Time Lords is lovely because it's the guy you've seen
1:58:21
before or you'll see again. Is it quite?
1:58:23
I think isn't calling in space? There's that attention to
1:58:26
detail. It's kind of Galfrey has some
1:58:28
familiar faces down there. And then there's that kind of
1:58:32
really years in advance casting. Where is it?
1:58:34
The guy who can't use his legs is casting a buggy draw and
1:58:37
that's a really nice touch. So it's really kind of
1:58:41
progressive on that. But again, you watch that this
1:58:45
with the eyes of a six year old. It's just as I think, as Jack
1:58:49
said, it's Bunny, it's treading and purpley having a woke up and
1:58:54
it's a party. It's you know, it's a party.
1:58:56
The only thing that you know, you've even got Jelly here.
1:58:59
Come. On it's a bit of ice cream.
1:59:04
This is a perfect party. My.
1:59:06
Birthday this week, all right, if I have jail guard don't show
1:59:09
up, I'll be very disappointed. Someone dainty?
1:59:12
No, I'll put the mask on. I'll send.
1:59:15
You always do. Well, if you, you know, you love
1:59:19
the Jelly there, I'm sure. What's up?
1:59:26
Yeah, this is Doctor Who as it's meant to be fun.
1:59:29
It's not meant to be deep, it's not meant to be serious.
1:59:31
You're meant to just have fun watching.
1:59:33
It's meant to remind you of the kind of things you know about
1:59:36
Doctor Who, Mick Williams. Hartnell's illness doesn't quite
1:59:39
do that. But as Rod said, it's just
1:59:41
seeing him back on the screen. It's what, and you realise what
1:59:45
it will remember what it meant to him.
1:59:47
You know, it is what I think was Heather bumped up the BBC after
1:59:50
and said he absolutely loved it. He had, you know, is it the last
1:59:55
is we're talking last year's was like he loved that.
1:59:57
He actually adored it. So to me, it's worth it.
2:00:00
It's given him comfort in his last years just to have that
2:00:03
last kind of bow. The series still remembers him.
2:00:08
The series still knows what he meant to it.
2:00:10
And even if he's so diminished and it's, you know, it's
2:00:13
obviously not that powerful performance that you get or that
2:00:17
that kind of twinkle in the eye. Between US and I think the thing
2:00:22
like that we hasn't merged it the way that ever manages to
2:00:26
interact with him to that footage.
2:00:29
You have to work around it and it actually sells, sells it
2:00:34
almost. It helps sell that kind of weak,
2:00:37
weaker Hartnell and I there's. A look of desperation on Trout's
2:00:40
fate at one point where he's sort of looking at like.
2:00:42
Yes, go on. Say the line I know.
2:00:47
What you're saying they're they are, they're trying their best
2:00:50
to get the best out of him. And trying to lift at the end.
2:00:53
He's always giving it more form for what urgency.
2:00:55
And it's really obviously that's kind of, it's kind of hard one
2:00:59
just to see them all together. Just trying to make sure it's a
2:01:03
celebration rather than Oh my God, what happened to him?
2:01:07
So yeah, as I said, a watcher of seven, like planter Daleks, I, I
2:01:13
can't help but watch this with the same eyes as I did when I
2:01:16
was seven, when I just went straight and went, I want the
2:01:18
target book of that. I went, you know, down down The
2:01:20
Smiths on the Saturday, grab the target book, devoured it and you
2:01:25
know. You.
2:01:26
Read Oh, that's what it was supposed to look.
2:01:30
Like all the Target books, they look better than your
2:01:32
imagination, don't they? Oh for sure.
2:01:34
A little BBC budget there, can I ask?
2:01:36
You a question though. Yeah, well, how old were you
2:01:39
when you saw this? Six years old when on the repeat
2:01:43
season. And So what year was that?
2:01:45
If you won. No, you don't look that old for
2:01:50
one, but for two, I wonder what would happen when we showed a
2:01:53
six year old today. They didn't.
2:01:56
Love it, you reckon? Wow.
2:01:59
Maybe not terrified by the idea that they're told this is just
2:02:02
an empty box, I think. A six year old today would be
2:02:06
delighted by the jail guards or wobble in the bass.
2:02:12
Ridiculous. But he, like I, was delighted by
2:02:15
the jail guards when I saw them for the first time in the clause
2:02:19
of Axos, because they look exactly like they don't.
2:02:25
Make that lovely like noise. It's very Bella done right.
2:02:33
So such a sophisticated girl. So the three doctors is going
2:02:38
through. So all three so far have gone
2:02:40
through so right, my choice, I am going for the Carnival of
2:02:45
Monsters or as it probably should be renamed now, the
2:02:49
Brexit of Monsters. So Vogue tells us, doesn't he,
2:02:55
that the point of him and Sherna.
2:02:56
So maybe the TV series itself is what's he say?
2:02:59
It's to amuse, simply to amuse. Nothing serious, nothing
2:03:03
political. Absolute bollocks.
2:03:05
Robert Holmes, you're giving us a very political story here.
2:03:09
So we've got Colic, Orem and Pletrac, the tribunal.
2:03:14
They may look like grey faced bureaucrats, so you might think
2:03:18
they're kind of synonymous with civil servants, but they're not.
2:03:21
These. Mostly, yeah, These are
2:03:23
political beasts through and through.
2:03:25
And the most obvious is Kalik as obviously as played by Michael
2:03:29
Wisher, whose next role will be the kind of ultimate in fascism
2:03:33
and eugenics. But Kalik, you know, he's not a
2:03:36
million miles away from Davros or possibly even misses Thatcher
2:03:40
or Boris Johnson. He despises the working class
2:03:44
functionaries. He hates the thought of them, he
2:03:47
says, ascending to a higher level.
2:03:49
He doesn't want them to come to the middle classes.
2:03:52
He believes what they need is the distraction of a war.
2:03:55
Falklands, anybody? As for the aliens or people of
2:04:00
other nationalities, he doesn't want that one into mine.
2:04:03
He says that, you know, he wants to keep his planet clean.
2:04:06
He believes they all carry disease and he stigmatized them
2:04:09
straight away. He's a vorgan churner.
2:04:11
He wants to label them as spies and saboteurs to create hatred
2:04:14
and mistrust. You know, we are we getting any
2:04:17
political vibes here at all? And.
2:04:19
The doctor, he goes, don't touch it.
2:04:22
You could be carrying hideous diseases.
2:04:25
And And As for the air quotes, they call them unauthorized life
2:04:28
forms or illegal migrants when the Doctor stumbles out the
2:04:32
TARDIS. Carly Yeah, that's right.
2:04:34
Joe believes he must be crawling with germs and the only reason
2:04:37
he doesn't eradicate him is because he wants the Eradicator
2:04:40
for greater political expediency so he can wrest power from his
2:04:44
brother. So do you know what?
2:04:46
This is a really angry script, isn't it?
2:04:48
And they all these layers give it a lot more depth than you
2:04:51
would think. Because again, the one negative,
2:04:53
I will get it out the way now and again.
2:04:55
Part one really suffers from that opening shot with some
2:04:58
dreadful masks for the functionaries, some dreadful
2:05:01
Christmas wrapped boxes coming out.
2:05:04
It looks really shoddy to start. With and music as well at the
2:05:08
start. Oh, yeah, it really doesn't
2:05:09
help. And seeing as it's just come off
2:05:11
the back of the three doctors, yeah, it doesn't look great.
2:05:14
But just listen to that dialogue.
2:05:16
And yeah, it's it's beautiful and very, very political.
2:05:21
My second reason are the Drash eggs.
2:05:23
Now, in contrast to that terrible visuals to start with,
2:05:27
the Drash eggs are fantastic creation.
2:05:30
I mean, those opening shots, often they see oh.
2:05:34
Exactly. John's holding up his drashing
2:05:37
as we speak. Yeah, thank you.
2:05:39
I beg. Your pardon, I may say your.
2:05:40
Attraction has got incredible girth.
2:05:42
Well. I I can talk about many a time
2:05:45
my. Only my only concern, John, it's
2:05:47
got a bright green head. I think you might need to go and
2:05:49
get that treated. I've been down a mine shaft in
2:05:53
Wales, got to that. That would explain.
2:05:55
Not the best bit of merchandise ever.
2:05:58
Created. It kind of was, but you know
2:06:02
what that first shot of them, that climax to episode 2 when
2:06:05
the drastic head bursts out the swamp and its jaws are open and
2:06:09
the waters dripping off it, that looks spectacular.
2:06:13
And it's extra supported by that screaming noise they make.
2:06:17
That noise is just with Joe, you and I, we've talked about the
2:06:20
sound sound design of of classic Doctor Who before.
2:06:23
I mean, that sound is just so tremendous, you've never heard
2:06:27
anything like it before. So when the Trashers are
2:06:30
pursuing the docks and drove through the mini scope, we don't
2:06:32
even see them. You don't need to.
2:06:34
You just hear that roar and you know they're coming.
2:06:37
And then those late shots when they smash through the bulk head
2:06:39
of the ship again and the head comes through, oh, they look
2:06:43
spectacular again. Admittedly, they look not so
2:06:46
good when the CSOCSOD into other shots and they're matted in.
2:06:51
That doesn't. No come.
2:06:53
On it's not as good. It does not as.
2:06:56
Of model work where he smashes his head through the.
2:06:58
Oh, that's that's spectacular. That's spectacular.
2:07:02
And then we do have a problem when they go into into minor at
2:07:05
the end, the production team has kind of forgotten what size they
2:07:08
are. So we when we see them in the in
2:07:10
the swamps, they're massive and then they're quite small when
2:07:13
they're on into minor. And we have the first of the
2:07:16
real kind of botched endings of this season.
2:07:19
Fortunately, we're going to get it in the other story still to
2:07:21
talk about, but obviously we're supposed to presume that the
2:07:24
drastic actually eats garlic and we don't see it because the the
2:07:28
models all went a bit wrong, but.
2:07:30
Nevertheless, aren't you on that special feature you?
2:07:33
On the special feature, yeah, yes, exactly on special feature,
2:07:36
but it's a bit of a botched ending there.
2:07:38
But irrespective of that, again, let's go back to being six.
2:07:41
I thought the drashics were amazing when I was six, and they
2:07:44
really stuck in my mind as as a terrifying monster.
2:07:48
So drashics is my second reason, my third reason of Org and
2:07:51
Shirner. So this is Holmes's fifth script
2:07:54
and it's the first time he's hit on having a comedy double act.
2:07:58
Not done it today we had Milo Clancy from the Space Pirates.
2:08:01
But this idea of two characters that are funny obviously is
2:08:05
going to go all the way through the rest of homes, and it's the
2:08:08
first time we've got them here and.
2:08:10
It's good. Put your finger on that.
2:08:12
Oh ow. Oh.
2:08:13
Good. That's a live one.
2:08:16
And they played by current comedy Palmers.
2:08:18
We've got Leslie Dwyer, who goes on to be Mr. Partridge, and
2:08:20
Heidi High. We've got Cheryl Hall, who goes
2:08:23
on to being Citizen Smith. You know, again, JNT stunt
2:08:26
casting of casting comic or comic actors.
2:08:28
I won't say comedians, but comic actors.
2:08:30
That's what they're doing here and they absolutely pays off in
2:08:33
spades. Probably helps by their
2:08:35
ridiculous costumes. Stands out so well against the
2:08:38
grayness of inter minor. But I love them.
2:08:40
And the favorite moment is is when Vogue blamed Shirner for
2:08:44
helping him to rescue the Doctor by putting his hand in front of
2:08:46
the trash eggs in the swamp until Karlik reminds him it was
2:08:49
him that suggested and then vogues his run straight away and
2:08:52
says, Oh yeah, a merciful and compassionate decision.
2:08:55
It was great. Great dialogue.
2:08:57
They're hilarious. Merciful and compassionate.
2:09:00
One house twins. It's absolutely going through.
2:09:05
So yeah, love it. Should we go to the comments?
2:09:08
If. Anyone don't like this?
2:09:09
All right, I don't want any more comments from them.
2:09:12
Let's go. Stephen B says Doctor Who doing
2:09:15
a story about Doctor Who being watched on television.
2:09:17
Holmes is clever, sardonic, script is witty and sharp, but
2:09:21
somewhat let down by the studio realization of interminer.
2:09:24
Admirable, if not spectacular. Here he is.
2:09:27
Dylan Reese. The stuff in the Miniscope is
2:09:29
pretty good, but the planet is embarrassingly cheap.
2:09:32
When people think of Doctor Who and its ropey effects, it's
2:09:34
stuff like this they point to. I thought Dylan said it was the
2:09:37
star beast that they point to for shoddy special effects?
2:09:42
James H says. One of the most brilliantly
2:09:43
constructed stories, with the episode one cliffhanger
2:09:46
seemingly coming out of nowhere. An unsubtle attack on
2:09:49
bureaucrats, great monsters, and a guest cast on top form.
2:09:52
But it's so unlikely that any controlling powers would ban the
2:09:56
arts. Keep it.
2:09:57
Dan Pin the only hiccup in the season.
2:10:00
I love the concept of the Doctor and Joe being stuck in the
2:10:02
miniscope, but I struggle with this.
2:10:05
Another very grey looking purpley story certainly doesn't
2:10:08
help. Darren Lit Randall said one of
2:10:10
the purpley's best, and probably so because it's so atypical.
2:10:13
A great cast all having great fun with Holmes's marvelous
2:10:16
characters. I think it's possibly Barry
2:10:18
Letters most competent direction.
2:10:20
Mind you, there's not much competition there.
2:10:21
James, like he directs Inferno. James.
2:10:25
Lark, I have a lot of time for this.
2:10:27
It's the kind of clever quirking, if you wonder why
2:10:29
Doctor Who did name four more often.
2:10:31
Robert Holmes witty script is deliciously satirical and it
2:10:34
unfolds beautifully, delivering proper surprises and plenty of
2:10:37
suspense amidst all the fun. Big Orange Michael said Robert
2:10:41
Holmes is starting to remake Doctor Who with this story and
2:10:44
it feels like he's auditioning for Script editor.
2:10:46
Interesting. This was chosen for the Five
2:10:48
Faces of Doctor Who in that it doesn't include all the elements
2:10:51
of the typical poetry story. I still love it though.
2:10:54
A definite keeper, even if they reuse the trashing footage a
2:10:57
lot. And you're not a good Rob with
2:10:59
varied locations and characters. The trashings look great,
2:11:02
especially in the Mar scenes, and the Miniscope set is
2:11:05
effective too. Paul Smice is my favorite of the
2:11:08
season, packed with lots of clever ideas and great
2:11:10
performances by the whole cast. Episode one cliffhanger is one
2:11:13
of the very best. Jason Thompson A great little
2:11:16
story with superb sporting characters and an intriguing
2:11:19
premise. The drashings look pretty damn
2:11:21
good shot on film. If you don't light up at Shirna
2:11:24
smile at the end, you have no soul.
2:11:28
Michael Storm says the star of the season poems that is
2:11:31
imaginative and wittiest. Best Schooner and Volga are
2:11:34
great double act. The crew of the S S Bernice are
2:11:37
great fun. Complexicated cookie are.
2:11:40
Lovely little story with some great ideas and I adore the
2:11:43
trashings. David Gillespie practice and
2:11:45
wobbly effects and sometimes Barry Letters direction isn't as
2:11:48
strong as it could be, but the imagination and creativity more
2:11:51
than compensates. The doctor and Joe on fine form
2:11:53
and an excellent guest cast. One of Holmes best scripts.
2:11:57
And Andy Parkinson. I know this is a fan favorite
2:12:00
but it just doesn't jail with me.
2:12:02
Llewellyn says love this love vorgen Cherner early roles for
2:12:07
some very important who actors. Steve Miller The only story that
2:12:10
isn't 10 out of 10 in like otherwise almost comfort season.
2:12:14
I don't know why I just never got on with it.
2:12:17
Tom Newson says a sparking oddball and pure Doctor Who,
2:12:20
including those alien ball caps and.
2:12:22
Anthony Carroll brilliantly says.
2:12:24
Just creative and balmy. So over to you, Joe.
2:12:28
What do you think? Oh no, no, let's throw it to the
2:12:30
guests. I'll go laugh on this one,
2:12:34
George. Off you go.
2:12:35
Oh well, again, it's something I watched when I was 7.
2:12:43
It's perfect to make you fall in love with because this is where
2:12:46
you get Robert Holmes becoming the Robert Holmes that we kind
2:12:49
of know and love. It's where you know, the
2:12:52
language he uses the, the, the way the class, the class, the,
2:12:57
there's the joke back, the hygiene chamber, which is it's,
2:13:02
it's not funny. It's not remotely funny to
2:13:04
anyone who's not of that kind of ruling class.
2:13:07
And then there's, you know, the, the ship that the 23 schedule 20
2:13:11
times around the deck is a mile. The the dialogue is being used
2:13:16
to really convey character, and it's really, really.
2:13:19
Funny. That's absolutely done
2:13:21
perfectly. Everyone talks, obviously, you
2:13:24
know? Yeah, leaded right here.
2:13:25
They have that whole, the Polari show, the whole patter of it.
2:13:31
It's so well that it's the characters that we know.
2:13:35
Yeah, my old Clancy is a prototype here.
2:13:38
But it's the way the conversation, it's the way the
2:13:40
kind of dialogue interacts with each other.
2:13:43
You know, the doc, the doctors, the only the whole, the man who
2:13:49
holds it together, the man who can kind of ZAP between worlds
2:13:52
on this. And he's at that connecting
2:13:54
thread and I oh God, I absolutely adore that opening
2:13:58
scene where he tries to talk to the chickens.
2:14:01
And that's such a perfect scene. Katie and Johnson, that's the
2:14:08
equivalent of taking in series four.
2:14:12
They, you know, you might have roping moments in the in the but
2:14:16
they will sell this everything. You will watch it just because
2:14:22
it's these two. They're having fun and you want
2:14:25
to have fun with them. Yeah, as Rod said, it's the
2:14:30
political, as I've grown up, the political allegories are there.
2:14:34
The you know, you look, it's they are very Tory, but they you
2:14:38
know, that track etcetera. And and obviously, even with the
2:14:43
inviting as well. How Tory is that?
2:14:45
All we care in is the bloody Tory party inviting it and I've
2:14:49
just long since needs to care about who's up or down me too.
2:14:56
It's it's such that that kind of postmodern idea again and people
2:15:02
refer to in the comments television.
2:15:05
It is playing with the idea of as television, these monsters,
2:15:09
you know, the Cybermen. You get there, you get again,
2:15:14
point harks to the past there without dominating the story.
2:15:18
And then in the 10th anniversary, freedom.
2:15:20
That's really, really lovely to do so.
2:15:25
Absolutely. And that, that whole last shot.
2:15:28
Yeah. Cheryl Hawk, she's she knows
2:15:32
she's she's the straight woman here, so to speak.
2:15:34
She knows what she's doing. And it's such a lovely
2:15:37
performance on that she you know, she knows she's not going
2:15:41
to get the showy lines. She's she's getting this the
2:15:44
Sartre, but then she's getting that that little look again and
2:15:48
it's good. I love it.
2:15:49
Ian Marta, having him this beautiful jump up again, play
2:15:52
with Daniel Evans. Wait stuff.
2:15:55
So absolutely. Again, it's a lot of fun.
2:16:00
It is as clever as it thinks it is.
2:16:01
It's weird. We get croc Robert Holmes and
2:16:04
again with a with a kind of a property, but ending rather than
2:16:08
just I love the shit acted everything, so I'm definitely.
2:16:14
Brilliant, Tanya. Evans, Man.
2:16:16
Oh, you're feeling a bit empty. Every line reading he's got is
2:16:23
great. Oh, that, that last one with the
2:16:25
book. Oh, it's.
2:16:28
Great. What is it?
2:16:29
He says. About the book.
2:16:31
Oh, I thought. He was going to marry her.
2:16:39
Fabulous, Jack. Yellow.
2:16:41
Paper Carnival. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's been
2:16:46
a little bit bored admitting that we all actually quite like
2:16:49
all of these toys, isn't it? So I'm going to continue to be
2:16:53
bored and say I quite like this toy.
2:16:58
Yeah. Robert Holmes when he's on it.
2:17:00
There's almost no one better in in the history of the show.
2:17:04
This is so smart, so funny and engaging, and I think that's the
2:17:10
important thing is, you know, yes, there are some ropey
2:17:14
effects and sets in episodes one and four in particular.
2:17:20
You know, there's so much if there's a quite a bit of
2:17:25
egregious CSO in it and you kind of wonder who immersed on it to
2:17:30
miss them and you get to the end.
2:17:31
But they started by barrier. Oh, I see.
2:17:35
OK, that's one. Yeah.
2:17:38
Ultimately, what's going to make or break your tolerance for
2:17:42
Doctor Who production design is your engagement with the story.
2:17:46
We all accepted the the ones where our concentration is going
2:17:50
or where we are willing to suspend our disbelief or less
2:17:55
are the ones that don't engage us as much.
2:17:58
And this I'm willing to to put all those, you know, I can't see
2:18:03
where Michael wishes face to end up with the ball cap.
2:18:07
Can't see it because you know, you're engaged with the story.
2:18:13
We've already talked about, you know, Rourke and Sharma who are
2:18:17
absolutely the doctor and Joe or well, I mean, maybe possibly the
2:18:22
doctor and the shores more. But but you know that absolutely
2:18:26
that dynamic is there. You know, Sharma, we've seen a
2:18:30
lot of female, you know, people who are in characters who are in
2:18:35
subordinate positions of power, who are actually in charge and
2:18:39
actually much more on the ball. And you know, they're the doll.
2:18:43
It's and the Sea Devils arguably in the whole of season seven and
2:18:48
and you know, yeah, no, I don't think Rob's secretly of the one
2:18:58
and and there's telling. That.
2:19:03
And it's very telling that she gets a lost image of much like
2:19:07
live short at the end of Inferno, the end on her smiling
2:19:11
in acknowledgement. I think, you know, slamming that
2:19:15
dynamic. But the great moment in episode
2:19:19
2 was she says to him, you know, she says to him, Vogue him with
2:19:24
the yokels. You said, haven't eaten out the
2:19:26
palm of your hands, You said, and that's exactly the any
2:19:31
doctor and companions dynamic. You thought these people were
2:19:35
going to be idiots and you haven't even out the palm of
2:19:37
your hands. And now it's that side on you.
2:19:40
That's absolutely the character of the Doctor in the Doctor Who
2:19:44
story. And it's mirrored with the
2:19:46
Doctor and Joe. You know, Joe is the one who
2:19:50
figures out that the conversation on the ship is
2:19:53
going around and round in episode one.
2:19:56
And you know, as a young kid watching that, what a great
2:19:59
moment that is when you yourself figure out, oh, this
2:20:04
conversation, they they're saying the same things that they
2:20:07
were saying earlier. It's just one of those.
2:20:10
Great. You'd get it just before the
2:20:12
characters get it moments, but doesn't signpost it and it
2:20:17
doesn't go, hey, we're doing something quite small with the
2:20:20
structure here. It just lets you, you know, sit
2:20:24
there and get it for yourself. Some great left handers.
2:20:28
Obviously, episode one, the hand grabbing the TARDIS is so the
2:20:36
best kind of clip and that in there fundamentally changes the
2:20:40
dynamic of the story, which is what all the clip and it should
2:20:45
do. It should, you know, pull the
2:20:46
rug out from my view and make you fit there for the next seven
2:20:50
days going what's going to happen?
2:20:52
The dog who knows. Wait, you know, I don't.
2:20:56
Yeah. I mean, really witty, you know,
2:20:59
not at all serious, not at all political.
2:21:01
Absolutely has a lot to say about, you know, the nature of
2:21:06
television. I mean, as people pointed out,
2:21:09
you know, they are in episode 3 crawling around the back of the
2:21:13
television set, you know, some time motors and, you know, what
2:21:19
kind of a stick. People would want events like
2:21:21
these for kicks, you know? Yeah, They say if you're sat
2:21:25
there watching him adopt his story, it's there's lots of, I
2:21:31
think stuff that will gain inspiration from this in terms
2:21:36
of the meta commentary on the show, obviously above Stephen
2:21:40
Muppet stuff will do that. Things like Venture from that
2:21:45
last immigration in the Galaxy are very much looking at, you
2:21:50
know, the nature of television, our relationship with the
2:21:54
program, you know, the characters, relationships with
2:21:58
themselves. That's all there.
2:21:59
And I think this is an original for a lot of those ideas.
2:22:10
Yeah. Nails what we love secretly
2:22:17
about the Doctor and the companion, particularly this
2:22:21
Doctor and this companion and the adventures.
2:22:24
And I'm just going to end by saying what a brave, bold, quite
2:22:30
subversive choice it was to make this the story after the, you
2:22:36
know, whatever you may think about the three Doctors, it's a
2:22:40
very traditional, you know, pieces of the past celebrating
2:22:48
what we've loved about the show. And at the end of that story, he
2:22:52
obviously gets a gets the the dematerialization circuit from
2:22:57
the Time Lords and they can go off to wherever they want.
2:23:01
And you might think yourself as a kid, oh, I can't wait to see
2:23:05
the directs beside the men, the Ice Warriors, whatever.
2:23:09
And you would never imagine that their first trip would be to
2:23:12
take you to a story like this that fundamentally challenges
2:23:17
you and wrong foot you and just about every turn.
2:23:21
So yeah, I think it's crucial for this age of the season and
2:23:25
it's definitely going through. Brilliant, Joe, I think this.
2:23:30
Might be the best John Purley story.
2:23:34
So I'm absolutely putting it through and I went on a bit of a
2:23:38
journey with the story myself because when the VHS came out
2:23:41
and I got it, I put it on straight away.
2:23:45
And that first scene you talked about, I watched.
2:23:48
And I was just. Like, oh, what is this like?
2:23:51
Like shiny presents are terrible music that awful masks and I
2:23:55
just turned it off and I refused to watch it and I was like, this
2:24:00
is just going to be just bullshit.
2:24:02
Another dreary We adventure in space with dreadful production
2:24:07
values. I was at that sort of stage of
2:24:09
fandom, you know, when you're a cynical, when you don't like
2:24:11
anything. And then I talked to some people
2:24:14
like now you've got to watch this thing.
2:24:15
It's. It's great.
2:24:16
It's a. Classic.
2:24:17
That is a classic. I was going like whatever, and
2:24:21
then I stuck it on again with a different mindset and got past
2:24:27
the first scene. And I think it was the first
2:24:31
time ideas in Doctor Who's story truly excited me.
2:24:40
And the, the idea of the miniscope, the idea of outside
2:24:45
locations that are realised on the screen inside a machine, I
2:24:50
was like, my God, this is mind blowing, you know?
2:24:55
Yeah, so and I watched it through and it just kept
2:24:57
subverting my expectations with one scene after another.
2:25:00
Once the hand coming in the fabulous bit with the the tall,
2:25:04
they can't seem to try and get them when they're going through
2:25:07
the works. The idea that they were.
2:25:09
Going from one location to another.
2:25:11
The ship, which was outside my brain just couldn't figure it
2:25:16
out. I'm like, this is so amazing on
2:25:18
a purely creative level, regardless of what's on the
2:25:21
screen. And what's on the screen
2:25:23
actually is pretty amazing when you get into this thing with
2:25:26
lots of fabulous location work, big colorful sets and all of
2:25:29
that. It really stimulated me.
2:25:32
And funnily enough, Nightmare of Eden did as well, but, you know,
2:25:36
for quite similar reasons. So yeah, my, my first thing
2:25:39
reason is I think it was the point where I realized that just
2:25:44
ideas and a Doctor Who story were enough to win me over and
2:25:48
it really got me excited. My second reason is the wit in
2:25:52
this script. I mean, it's fucking funny,
2:25:54
isn't it? I should get, I'll say a few
2:25:56
lines, which I really, really love.
2:25:59
They ate it. They ate a spaceship.
2:26:02
It's a wonderful line delivery. What is it?
2:26:05
There's a great bit where, hey, Manning slips into the story and
2:26:08
Joe Grant, the parts where she goes.
2:26:10
Not yet. I'm only half cooked, which is
2:26:13
so wonderful. The bit when this.
2:26:15
Job it starts. Growing and Orem Goes Wicker
2:26:19
Black and Michael Wisher delivers the single best
2:26:27
delivery of one word when they use that gun and he just goes
2:26:32
rather it's mad. I'm just laughing all the way
2:26:36
through. Tanya Evans Hello.
2:26:38
Topping day. What is wonderful?
2:26:41
Oh, they're great favourites with the children.
2:26:43
Oh, I did terrorist lodges. One has no wish to be devoured
2:26:47
by alien monstrosities, even in the course of political
2:26:50
progress. I mean, it's just one zinger
2:26:53
after another. Everything you guys have said,
2:26:57
amazing double acts in this story.
2:26:59
I think Cheryl Hall is given a very naturalistic performance,
2:27:05
actually, in a story full of big, colorful characters.
2:27:08
She's the one that's sort of playing it for real, you know?
2:27:10
Oh, you've got a nerve fork, you know.
2:27:15
Where did? Where did?
2:27:15
They get that thing from again the.
2:27:17
Past Oh, from a wrestler, wasn't it Tellurian wrestling?
2:27:23
Oh. So, so funny.
2:27:27
I like, I really like the fact as well.
2:27:30
I think it's all said in the comments that no one actually
2:27:33
finds out what Carla's plan is. He's so shit.
2:27:37
He's got this huge plan to overthrow his brother.
2:27:40
Oh, and let's talk about that because Robert Holmes is
2:27:42
brilliant at doing this. The character you never see that
2:27:45
everyone refers to. And it's like the Sheridan thing
2:27:48
in keeping up appearances. You can never see that person
2:27:51
because we've all got a different idea of who they are.
2:27:53
And I and I had and Holmes does it again and again.
2:27:56
The graph in the K goes on about his brother.
2:27:58
Doesn't he take it over the throne?
2:28:00
Karen I I think that's so clever.
2:28:02
In fact, one of the best examples of that Rod is that
2:28:04
fella in Eve of the Daleks who's who's renting out the rooms for
2:28:08
everybody and utterly instrumental to the plot.
2:28:11
But we never met him. Yeah, the beefy beans guy.
2:28:14
You love that story. Don't even and I just I think
2:28:18
this Barry let's his biggest strength is how we cast overall.
2:28:22
It did cast Jenny Laird so we won't give him a totally free
2:28:25
pass. My husband.
2:28:26
Why? Why?
2:28:27
But this cast is amazingly good. Isn't it so confident with this
2:28:32
script where they're probably used to playing civil servants
2:28:35
and very boring roles and then this story turns up on their
2:28:38
mat. Like what the hell is this?
2:28:40
I'm some intergalactic con man. I'm some Gray faced racist, you
2:28:44
know, like glorious, glorious performances.
2:28:47
But from start to end, including the first scene, which I just
2:28:52
had to get over a bit, I think this is practically peerless.
2:28:56
You can sort of pick at the direction.
2:28:58
You can pick at the direction of any classic Doctor Who story.
2:29:00
None of it holds up now really. But as a as the experience of
2:29:06
watching television, I just think it's an utter joy.
2:29:09
Brilliant. So all four are through so far.
2:29:12
Jesus Christ. So we are left with frontier in
2:29:15
space. John and.
2:29:17
Jay out. Boys.
2:29:18
Who feels Who feels most impassioned about doing the
2:29:21
opening for Frontier? Does anyone have a positive
2:29:24
reading on Frontier in space? Yes.
2:29:29
I'm not you. Can you?
2:29:31
Have a try. Oh, neither.
2:29:36
Of them. Oh, OK, well.
2:29:39
I'll, I'll stop because it's the story that I was probably the
2:29:46
most mixed on when I, when I went into it.
2:29:49
I think there's a lot of, oh, this is good, but and all that
2:29:54
was good. But I, I quite like to start
2:30:01
almost, you know, very traditional doctor companion
2:30:05
walk around to the corridors, network one and, you know, poke
2:30:11
around and see what's what. I think it's quite a nice start
2:30:15
to the story. It's, it builds up quite well.
2:30:20
I think, you know, they do the smart thing and save the master
2:30:24
for a few episodes. You know, they allow us time to
2:30:28
immerse us in this setting, but you kind of poke it and go, you
2:30:32
know, should it be 6 hours, six hours, six hours, 6 hours?
2:30:41
I really like the Malcolm Hulk world building.
2:30:45
You know, the attitudes towards the Draconians and the the other
2:30:51
men isn't just we don't like you.
2:30:54
Well, we don't like you. I think they're trying to put
2:30:57
across the case a lot. Well, I like the use of Dragons
2:31:01
as a sort of ethnic for the draconians.
2:31:04
I just think that's a smarter way of introducing this on more
2:31:09
insidious anti draconian mentality.
2:31:15
I think we should probably address the elephant in the
2:31:17
room, which is the doctor and Joe get locked in a bunch of
2:31:20
cells and you know oneself. The other, which I, I had heard
2:31:27
about going in, you know, you most Doctor Who stories that you
2:31:31
watch, you hear the stories about, this is the one where
2:31:34
this happens and this is the one where the doctor and Joe don't
2:31:38
do anything because they're locked in cages all the time.
2:31:42
Well, I'd actually like to ultimately that was when I was
2:31:46
going into this story for the first time.
2:31:49
That was where I thought this is going to stand or fall based on
2:31:54
how I take from MBM, shunted from place to place.
2:31:59
And ultimately I would say I supported it because there's a
2:32:04
lot of variety in the settings. It's not just they don't just go
2:32:08
back to the same page over and over again.
2:32:11
So we're making different sets. They're all, you know, pretty
2:32:15
different. They're bought to be held.
2:32:18
They're bought to beg for the, you know, Sweden's in front of
2:32:22
the Earth prison. You know, they're the doctors
2:32:24
taken off the prison planet. You know, shows that great bit
2:32:29
that they have in the when they're held by the master and
2:32:33
they have to improvise. They're improvised their spiel
2:32:39
for that. The master stops paying
2:32:40
attention to them for the doctor can escape.
2:32:44
It's another, you know, great. We we know that Katie Manning is
2:32:48
going to leave at the end of the year.
2:32:50
So we'll sort of give a nice Little Joe understands her sort
2:32:56
of own personal foibles and sort of deliberately plays them up
2:33:00
by, you know, delivering on and tell them off to stop paying
2:33:04
attention to her. And yeah, I think that's why I'm
2:33:10
ultimately going to going to support it and put it through.
2:33:15
It's because it's a fairly traditional type of adoptive
2:33:19
story, but then executed with precision, with performances of
2:33:25
professionals who are some of the best to ever play main
2:33:29
characters in the show who have been here for a while and know
2:33:32
what they're doing. So this is a story that knows
2:33:35
what it's doing and that's why I'm permission.
2:33:38
Brilliant. Let's go to our comments.
2:33:40
Let's start with the lunatic that is Dylan Reece, he said.
2:33:44
I bet this board board the kids shitless.
2:33:47
I enjoy it as an adult, but it's all a bit too talky.
2:33:50
Delgado and Poet, we are fantastic.
2:33:52
And for the love of God, bring back the Draconians.
2:33:55
Lunatic, but he's got a lovely ass.
2:33:58
Jason Thompson, an incredibly dull title and a pretty dull
2:34:01
story. Supposedly the first half of the
2:34:04
12 part Dalek epic intended to rival Master Plan.
2:34:07
It's clear the two stories John said this earlier.
2:34:10
I have no connection except the no Jack said this.
2:34:14
The dialects popping up at the end.
2:34:15
That said, the Draconians are a superb design and Delgado is
2:34:18
brilliant. It's unfortunate that production
2:34:21
issues left the end of this one so messy and ambiguous.
2:34:23
This tragic death meant this was the last we saw of him.
2:34:26
James Lark said great mask design aside, it's a dreary old
2:34:30
thing. Even the South Bank centre looks
2:34:32
more like a car park than a futuristic prison.
2:34:35
Roger Delgado always lifts things, but it's a shame he
2:34:37
didn't go out with more of a swagger than this allows him.
2:34:40
Oh. Man, what's he talking about?
2:34:43
Naturally, because we're following.
2:34:45
Them. Thank you, Miss Grant.
2:34:47
We'll let you know. Complexicated Cookie, maybe a
2:34:52
little over long, but I can watch Perk, Wee Manning and
2:34:54
Delgado all day long. Eukonia's are a wonderful
2:34:57
concept for an alien race and there are some lovely allegories
2:34:59
about the nature of racism and how people can be manipulated.
2:35:03
Dave Rennie says one of the best new species in the era.
2:35:05
Poe is in fine form and I love the masters reading choices.
2:35:08
It's too long though, so it's got to go.
2:35:11
Matt Foy, the VHS cover said, is only when the master appears on
2:35:15
the scene that things begin to move, which says it all.
2:35:18
However, as always, Matt Cole creates believable characters
2:35:21
and incorporate serious themes under the surface.
2:35:24
Aronette Randall says a whole load of nothing, lots of going
2:35:27
back and forth to no real end. The production is solid for the
2:35:30
most part. Of course.
2:35:31
Delgado is brilliant and has a good cast, but the plot?
2:35:35
Michael Storm ought to be Dallas Ditchwater for most of the
2:35:38
story. One of the regulars is
2:35:39
incarcerated, with General General Williams telling him he
2:35:42
doesn't believe them so much so you have to wonder if he has
2:35:45
descended from Victor Mildrew. But it keeps me hooked.
2:35:48
And we get that wonderful virtual free hander episode with
2:35:51
Pertwee, Manning and Delgado. David Gillespie, Pratt said.
2:35:55
Perhaps the weakest of the five, but still lots to enjoy.
2:35:58
One last hurrah for Rogers Master and any scene with the
2:36:01
Joe with with the. Doctor Joe.
2:36:03
And the Master with the Joe with the Doctor Joe and the Master is
2:36:07
gold. A shame about the giant bollock
2:36:09
monster at the end, love. That monster, Big orange Michael
2:36:14
the Cliffhang has happened whether there is dramatic
2:36:16
tension or not, and the story is full of capture, escape, capture
2:36:20
again in the middle third. There's some great political
2:36:22
stuff going on and an interesting subtext to the Earth
2:36:25
President and the general, and yet there's not enough happening
2:36:28
to justify the longer runtime. Doesn't get my vote.
2:36:32
Daniel Knight says great at world building but the plot is
2:36:34
very repetitive. However, it's well cast, the
2:36:37
design is great and the Draconians are superb.
2:36:39
Shame Paul Bernard messed up the final scene.
2:36:42
Electronic Dan, One of my very favorite poet weeds.
2:36:45
I love a good space opera, it's just a shame the ending is a bit
2:36:48
weak and feels forced in order to create a cliffhanger.
2:36:52
Who gives the fluxes despite the back and forth to that bloody
2:36:55
cell? How many times do we find
2:36:56
ourselves locked up in this one? The story intrigued me and kept
2:36:59
me interested, and I enjoyed the cliffhanger Daleks when I
2:37:02
expected the story to end. Worth knowing you know there's
2:37:05
Three Doctors and in Carnival of Monsters and in Planet of the
2:37:09
Daleks, they're in and out of sales in the whole story.
2:37:13
Ian McCann If we have to nominate the worst, I suppose
2:37:16
Frontier falls into that lane. It's not especially bad, but
2:37:19
there's only so much capture and escape filler one can sit
2:37:22
through, and draconian politics just aren't that fascinating.
2:37:27
And Paul Smyce says the one really weak story of the season.
2:37:29
Lots and lots of padding. Great cliffhanger ending though.
2:37:33
Dan Hollingsworth very finely says love how the 20th century
2:37:37
Earth is concrety, like the southbound in London.
2:37:41
Yeah, that's. A weird coincidence.
2:37:42
Isn't it? Fancy that?
2:37:44
You guys must have played draconians shooting around when
2:37:48
you go to the BFI, have you? Oh yeah.
2:37:53
Right. Let's go to John.
2:37:56
Yeah, this was the one that it really is the hardest to make
2:37:59
your mind upon because, you know, after you've had the three
2:38:01
doctors and kind of monsters, it's very much you've had your
2:38:05
Fern, now eat your greens. Yeah, it's that God, because
2:38:10
it's good for you. And it's it's really nice in the
2:38:14
way it does kind of politics as this art of compromises, because
2:38:18
you get that the pressures on the president from, you know,
2:38:21
from the Hawks and the doves. So, you know, she's got that
2:38:25
congressman behind it. She's not necessarily driven by
2:38:28
what she wants to do. And that's a really nice touch.
2:38:33
And again, that the that the president is a woman in those
2:38:37
days before we'd had a leader in this country, as you know, the
2:38:41
US still hasn't had it. It's, it's really nice and
2:38:45
progressive. But again, it's so he's slow,
2:38:53
isn't it? It it does keep zipping along
2:38:55
because of all the different locations.
2:38:57
It does what Terry Nation and Dennis Brew did in Mass by while
2:39:01
doing the chase what they do in marrying what Nation doesn't
2:39:04
marry the look, the different locations keep things different,
2:39:08
keep things moving along, even if you know at least one of the
2:39:11
locations is in a cell on a spaceship for a whole.
2:39:16
And that episode, that episode 4, the Space Pirates, is the
2:39:19
only story, I think, which kind of tries to tell you how long it
2:39:25
takes to get somewhere in space and portray it.
2:39:29
And that episode, is it episode four, I think.
2:39:31
Is that that number? And it's just pure bloody
2:39:35
padding. It's just there to, you know, to
2:39:37
drag the story out. But as I said, it's Delgado
2:39:42
Purima. And 25 minutes of that.
2:39:44
Yeah. That's the kind of padding I
2:39:46
want. That's the kind of padding I
2:39:48
will keep watching all night, because it's fun, because
2:39:52
they're selling it all the way. Even if, you know, the Doctor,
2:39:55
jumping out his spaceship and then being able to get back to
2:39:58
it is complete, You know, physics nonsense.
2:40:01
Who cares? It's not who.
2:40:02
We don't bother about physics, do we?
2:40:04
It can't be physics nonsense junk because he's got all those
2:40:06
strings that are really. Helping him.
2:40:08
Pull along. He can do whatever he likes with
2:40:10
those strings. Yeah, do a part, yes.
2:40:17
It's. Yeah, it's just not the most
2:40:22
interesting story around. It's worthy stuff.
2:40:26
And Paul Bernard has this thing, not just with that last episode
2:40:29
where he cuts Smith hangers. I'm sure he's doing it to give
2:40:32
like pace and drum, but he kind of cuts up half a second.
2:40:35
It feels really, really odd on the episode endings and it just
2:40:40
bothers me. So it feels a bit a little bit
2:40:42
messy. So again, with with the with the
2:40:47
bollock monster as well that we've already mentioned.
2:40:49
I love The Cave painting of it, but you get on the wall and you
2:40:52
can see why barrel let's work. We're not going to have any
2:40:54
shots of that in the whole thing because it's a big duvet.
2:40:58
It's it's, but again, it's Doctor Who.
2:41:02
It's their for ambition. It's they they're trying to go
2:41:06
by the budget and you know, particularly this wire.
2:41:08
I, I like three doctors over over planted diets because it
2:41:13
should always try and exceed its ambition.
2:41:15
It should always try and be reaching and it fails
2:41:18
occasionally. What the hell?
2:41:20
And I don't kind of think this is reaching.
2:41:23
But the thing I do love, I do love a lot more is that the
2:41:26
Doctor just stumbles into the Masters plan by accident.
2:41:29
This isn't, you know, like the other masters I've seen
2:41:31
previously. He isn't planning to go after a
2:41:35
doctor. It's not obsessive.
2:41:37
It's just, hang on, the Masters been having a good laugh and
2:41:40
he's planning to double cross the diocese at the end, which is
2:41:42
a really lovely touch at the end.
2:41:45
And he and the doctor just suddenly gets all, you know, the
2:41:48
Master improvises something, gives him that really nice kind
2:41:51
of dark half of the doctor thing again, because he'll go, oh,
2:41:55
yeah, is he? Has he turned that right?
2:41:57
I'll have a have a laugh. Yeah.
2:41:59
And it screws up his entire plan.
2:42:01
But he's having fun, so he doesn't really care, does he?
2:42:03
And it, it's really lovely how Malcolm Hulk kind of rescues
2:42:07
that in the novelisation of it, you know, or he just goes, oh,
2:42:10
well, you know, here's another day, we'll have a laugh.
2:42:15
So I, I'm really, really kind of on the fence about it.
2:42:20
So I'm always inclined to be generous.
2:42:22
So I think I'll just about stick it through.
2:42:26
Yeah. Joe, go for it.
2:42:28
I really love this. I'm a huge fan of Star Trek and
2:42:34
I think there's a lot of Star Trek stuff going on in this.
2:42:37
The whole race thing, taking an alien race and making them a bit
2:42:43
more thoughtful and an actual culture rather than monsters of
2:42:47
the week. I will say this a lot, but I
2:42:50
think this story does it really well, carving out a huge sort of
2:42:53
corner of the gas in a lot of detail as well.
2:42:56
And I think that's why those scenes in those cells are so
2:42:59
important because like so you said, every time we go to
2:43:02
another location, which sketches in a little more.
2:43:07
So we go to the moon, we find out about the penal penalty, we
2:43:10
go to Draconia, we find out about their culture there.
2:43:13
We go to the over on planet and you know, and as the story goes
2:43:16
on, we open out and out and out to the point where I I really
2:43:19
feel like we've gotten to know this time period extremely well.
2:43:24
And I can't remember which commentary is on, but there's a
2:43:28
wonderful description of the rise and fall of the Earth
2:43:32
Empire in the Pertwee era, which starts with, well, this is all
2:43:38
about the mid period, isn't it? The Earth Empire at its height,
2:43:41
reaching out into the stars, you know, making contact with other
2:43:44
races and things like that. It's decline is the mutants
2:43:48
where they're pulling out of planets and, you know,
2:43:52
represented by people like the Marshall and obviously the other
2:43:57
one's colony in space where we're just making those first
2:43:59
steps out there because the Earth's in a terrible old state
2:44:03
and we need to get away from, you know, this battery head and
2:44:06
overpopulated planet. So this is sort of the mid
2:44:09
period here. And I love the fact that
2:44:11
Terrence sticks when Toby Haddock spells all this out to
2:44:13
him, this wonderful ground plan to show the Earth Empire, he
2:44:16
just goes, oh, honestly, Toby fans.
2:44:21
He goes. We didn't plan it at all.
2:44:23
Fans will see patterns in anything, but it does work
2:44:26
really well and this does show you the Earth empire is high
2:44:30
with all this technology, this fabulous spaceships and things
2:44:32
like this. And space opera is something
2:44:35
that Doctor Who doesn't do very often and I think it does it
2:44:37
extremely well here. I think this is the money story
2:44:41
of the season as well. This is where you know the, I
2:44:44
think this is the biggest budget.
2:44:45
If you look at the list of characters in this, I think it's
2:44:48
like 25 actors or something like that, which is huge for a Doctor
2:44:52
Who story. Like all speaking parts, you've
2:44:55
got detailed and large sets, you've got space walks, which
2:44:58
are done I think, quite convincingly.
2:45:00
Yeah, you can see the strings. Who cares?
2:45:02
It's all done on film, beautifully lit.
2:45:04
It's done really well. Loads of convincing model work,
2:45:08
locations that sell this sort of brutal view of the future.
2:45:12
I love the South Bank stuff and we're I love that garden that's
2:45:16
in the middle of London. He goes running through this
2:45:18
sort of one beautiful area in this terrible future and the
2:45:22
quarry for the Oakland planet as well.
2:45:24
All of it just helps to sell this as a very sort of realistic
2:45:28
depiction of the future. Beautiful costumes as well.
2:45:32
Tons of action and and stunts and things going on that the
2:45:35
Draconian Palace is great. Their makeup is amazing.
2:45:39
So we've sort of pointed at Carnival Monsters, 3 Doors and
2:45:42
other stories this season where the money really hasn't been
2:45:45
there, but they realized this is a big six parter.
2:45:48
I'm going to throw a lot of resources at it.
2:45:50
And I think it's Paul Bernard's best direction in the show as
2:45:54
well. Man, he loves a zoom, don't he?
2:45:56
He's zooming in and out of scenes all the time.
2:45:59
But actually it's quite nice because it adds a bit of
2:46:01
dynamism because he moves the camera and he zooms at the same
2:46:04
time. So he suggests a lot of
2:46:06
movement, but it does get a bit dizzy.
2:46:07
And at times I go what we're going in on here?
2:46:10
Oh, we're coming away from something.
2:46:12
But you know, it mostly works, I think.
2:46:14
I think he's a, he's a very competent director that sort of
2:46:19
his above average. He's not superb, but this is
2:46:21
definitely the best that he does.
2:46:24
You guys have already said the chemistry between Pertwee
2:46:27
Manning and Delgado in episode 4.
2:46:29
I would watch six episodes of them just standing right.
2:46:32
That monologue that Katie Manning gives, you know, oh,
2:46:36
they all my friends think that being a spy and UNIT is all
2:46:39
glamorous, you know, James Bond style escapades.
2:46:42
Well, I'm telling you, it's not. It's just a lot of paperwork.
2:46:45
Oh, man, it's so funny, Doctor, you have my sympathies when
2:46:50
she's ranting on. And even funnier is when he does
2:46:55
a course correction on the ship and goes fly and she's like.
2:46:59
Oh, you sort of know it's a space.
2:47:01
And the master just laughs his head off.
2:47:03
They're just glorious together, aren't they?
2:47:06
I love all of that, so that's fabulous.
2:47:10
I like all this little lines that Hulk gives incidental
2:47:15
characters that just make them more than incidental characters.
2:47:19
I love the line of fellows in episode one where he doesn't
2:47:22
want to throw his life away of this ridiculous cargo.
2:47:24
And he just goes, it's just a load of flour.
2:47:27
You know, they just sound like real people.
2:47:31
One of the guards goes, oh, I don't want to get mixed up with
2:47:33
her security. And then he's not in the story
2:47:35
again. You know why he said that lying.
2:47:38
But clearly, you know, he's just a real person there.
2:47:41
And in particular, I love the we were friends once that the
2:47:47
general says to the present. And that whole relationship is
2:47:50
so interesting. I like how she's in charge.
2:47:55
But in a lot of the early scenes, he's filmed and plays it
2:48:00
in the dominant role. It's.
2:48:02
Yeah, it's really, really interesting.
2:48:04
And he's sort of journey as he goes through the story to
2:48:07
discovering, you know, that the Draconians didn't do what they
2:48:11
for and that that's that's like a Babylon 5 plot arc there that
2:48:15
took place over five years. We do it in six episodes here.
2:48:18
JMS, take note. All right, but the real reason
2:48:23
I've got to put this through is the utterly glorious moment
2:48:27
where the Master goes Doctor I've.
2:48:29
Brought some friends along with me.
2:48:31
And the Daleks emerge and we don't do this right.
2:48:35
We don't have stories with two sets of or villain and monsters
2:48:41
together like this. It's so exciting, I think for
2:48:44
the kids, my God, the master and the darlings, the same kids.
2:48:48
Well, the adults then, but kids like must have been like that
2:48:51
when they watched Army of Ghosts and it was the side men and the
2:48:53
Dallas. Of course, we do a lot of it now
2:48:55
and it's all a bit boring. By the time we get to time with
2:48:58
the Doctor, we've got all bloody Weeping Angels and Daleks and
2:49:00
Simon. It's very dull, but here it's
2:49:04
really exciting. It's.
2:49:07
His origin story? You're saying this is Big Finish
2:49:11
his origin story? Oh God, Oh my God, this is the.
2:49:19
Start of what's? The future.
2:49:23
Then the. Dear of Doctor Who.
2:49:26
And the very last reason I want to give is that obviously the
2:49:29
starring role of Gruntly, the O'gron, absolute star of the
2:49:34
show. I love the way he eats the
2:49:35
banana that Joe gives him. You know, I love the way that
2:49:39
when the flea machine goes off, he's like waving his hands
2:49:43
about. It's a star turn.
2:49:45
Gruntly. If you're listening.
2:49:47
You're a superstar, baby. Let's put it through.
2:49:50
Fabulous was going through anyway, but I was also going to
2:49:53
put it through. So it's another one that gets a
2:49:55
full, full house. You've touched on a lot of
2:49:59
things I was going to touch. The first one was the kind of
2:50:00
cohesive storytelling. And Joe, you just touched on
2:50:03
this. You discussed this.
2:50:05
So yeah, you're right with Dixon and Letts you had very
2:50:09
consistency with with the unit world and that was really
2:50:12
solidly built up. But you do also get it in there
2:50:15
off world stories too. You're absolutely right.
2:50:17
I was going to talk about solos. You're right.
2:50:19
So we do get that feeling, but you do.
2:50:22
You're absolutely right. You get that sense of this being
2:50:24
one big story and it's not just that there's so many little bits
2:50:29
that come into this. So Joe originally sees the Earth
2:50:31
crew as drashing, so we've just had drash eggs in Carnival of
2:50:34
Monsters. They come back again later on
2:50:36
when the Masters trying to intimidate her, she sees sea
2:50:39
devils and mutts. So it's all building the story
2:50:41
that this is kind of one. It's not just, oh, this is an
2:50:44
adventure for Doctor Who at the moment.
2:50:46
This is part of an overall tapestry.
2:50:48
It's a series of adventures that all fit together.
2:50:51
We meet the Okrams again after we've met them in Day of the Day
2:50:55
of the Dialects. We've actually just seen a
2:50:57
little cameo for them in Carnival as well.
2:51:00
And Joe worries that they might be working for the dialects
2:51:02
again because she's thinking of the dialects.
2:51:03
The doctor says, oh, no, no, no, they'll work for anyone.
2:51:06
What a great double bluff because he's kind of the
2:51:08
audience would think straight away, oh, are the dialects going
2:51:10
to pop up at some point? Dr. dismisses that.
2:51:13
And then, as you rightly say, come to Episode 6, who turns up
2:51:17
at the top of the cliffs in episode one?
2:51:19
We get people being hypnotized. And you know, if that's not a
2:51:23
tip and a wink to the audience who've seen the Master
2:51:25
hypnotizing people left, right and centre for the last couple
2:51:28
of years, they must have thought, oh, is the Master
2:51:30
involved here somewhere? I'm talking of kind of that in
2:51:33
show continuity. Got to talk about Joe in here,
2:51:37
that first scene when she comes out of the TARDIS and she's
2:51:39
walking about. Just compare that to the Joe in
2:51:42
Colony in Space who was all very timid and scared.
2:51:46
It shows how confident and assured she is now on what
2:51:49
fantastic and solid and subtle trajectory she's been given over
2:51:54
these three years to turn from that very meek little ham fisted
2:51:57
bum vendor into. The gum in that scene.
2:52:00
She is. She is I.
2:52:01
Feel like she's so cash. She's like caring a bowl of
2:52:05
about flower. But it is, isn't it?
2:52:08
You've got to go. You've got to.
2:52:10
Use for this now. It's yeah, exactly.
2:52:13
But she's it just shows what development we've seen over
2:52:15
those years. She's really grown.
2:52:17
And even in modern day, I don't think we get such strong growth
2:52:21
of a character over a couple of seasons.
2:52:24
And I think they all should get commended for that.
2:52:26
So I love all of that cohesiveness and it feels like
2:52:28
one big adventure serial, not a series of separate adventures.
2:52:32
The second one, as you've all talked about, it's the kind of
2:52:34
world building. There's all these little
2:52:36
throwaway lines like anti draconian riots in Tokyo and
2:52:40
Belgrade and the draconian consulate.
2:52:42
Helsinki has been burnt to the ground and demonstrates a
2:52:45
burning effigies of the earth president in Los Angeles.
2:52:49
All these little throwaway lines that just help build up a bigger
2:52:52
world than the budget can ever possibly show us.
2:52:55
You know, this is a world of of foreign embassies and political
2:52:58
prisoners in Guantanamo Bay style prisons.
2:53:01
You've got. I do think quite there that you
2:53:04
know. You do, absolutely.
2:53:05
And you've got rolling news channels.
2:53:07
It all just feels active. Peace Party.
2:53:09
They talk about when they're on the moon.
2:53:11
It builds up the idea. Joe, you said it before, These
2:53:13
little lines that make it feel real.
2:53:16
The characters feel real. I think all these little
2:53:18
dropping lines about what's going on in this world also
2:53:22
build up the image of this being a very consistent and very real
2:53:26
world. So I love all of that as well.
2:53:29
And finally, yeah, we've all talked about that and you've all
2:53:32
said it. There is lots of escape and
2:53:34
capture, but when it's this entertaining, I'm not going to
2:53:37
put up with it. You've all talked about the one
2:53:39
in Part 4, but I'm also going to throw reference to the one in
2:53:42
Part 2 when it's just the Doctor and Joe.
2:53:45
She's quite scared and he tells that great story about being
2:53:48
held by the Medusoids and breaking all their various mind
2:53:51
probes, and there's that. Brilliant.
2:53:53
I absolutely love it, a Sonic screwdriver gag.
2:53:55
When he uses that on the door and all the alarm bells goes off
2:53:59
and he just sits down very meekly and quietly.
2:54:02
It's great. She goes, hey, I've had a just
2:54:06
big idea, you know? And it's every escape plan
2:54:10
they've ever had. Absolutely.
2:54:12
So yeah, it's it's fabulous. It's so entertaining.
2:54:15
These two together are just gold.
2:54:17
So yeah, absolutely it's going through.
2:54:19
I can see why people don't like this if, if this sort of slow
2:54:24
burn political space opera isn't your bag.
2:54:28
If Doctor Who, you know, on contemporary Earth with autons
2:54:31
and things like that, which is what people have been used to.
2:54:33
I I can understand why this is some people's taste, but in a
2:54:37
season that's doing lots of different things, this is just
2:54:39
another really interesting flavour.
2:54:42
And I don't want to bang the same drum again.
2:54:44
But you know what? Watch these separate episodes,
2:54:46
one a week for six weeks. You don't get that sense of, oh,
2:54:50
we're just in jail cells because as as people have said already,
2:54:53
the location changes. So you're just not aware that
2:54:55
it's people being locked up all the time.
2:54:57
You get that when you sit down and watch binge 6 episodes, one
2:55:00
after the next. You don't get it when it's when
2:55:03
you consume it in the way it was originally intended.
2:55:06
Although that fella, you know, they're on the moon and all the
2:55:09
ears coming out of the room, But whoever's playing, that old man,
2:55:12
Professor, go hello, he's sort. Of literally.
2:55:16
Banging our eyes. Awful.
2:55:17
He's. Not great to.
2:55:18
Say, but bonus points for the bit where the Master reads out
2:55:21
all the charges against the Doctor and Delgado's loving it,
2:55:25
isn't it? And the close up another another
2:55:27
zoom in on part we just looking so angry.
2:55:32
Oh, Delgado is just superb in this, isn't it?
2:55:35
What a loss, right? So we've got to the end of round
2:55:38
one and all five stories. Are going to three hours and
2:55:43
we've accomplished nothing. No, we've heard lots of smart
2:55:48
reasons. And there has there has been
2:55:51
some. Criticism as well.
2:55:53
So Joe, do you want to start your camp Suspense music,
2:55:57
please? Camp music a go.
2:56:01
And the wheel of misfortune brings us the green death
2:56:06
against Oh hang on, let's get this green death again.
2:56:10
Carnival of Monsters. Oh, I thought this was going to
2:56:14
be the final. So, Jack, are you Green Death?
2:56:19
Are you carnival? Oh God.
2:56:23
Oh, OK, OK. Your results weakened all
2:56:30
episodes. Yeah, I've got no resolve left.
2:56:35
OK, so here's my reasoning. If you were to ask me, you know
2:56:43
what's the type of Doctor Who? Oh, blah.
2:56:46
But watch out these two. The type would probably be more
2:56:52
of a a carnival of monsters. But you know, we've seen these
2:56:57
themes, you know, being arguably improved upon him the likes of,
2:57:02
you know, that off some great show in the Galaxy.
2:57:05
And I think it's a celebration of season 10 of this crew of a
2:57:12
Jon Pertwee era of Doctor Who, which is what we're here to talk
2:57:16
about. I shall vote for the Green
2:57:19
Death. Hey, John.
2:57:23
Yeah, it's like I like my Doctor Who clever and I like it funny.
2:57:28
But what I did before this podcast, I said for this round,
2:57:31
I I said to myself, right, you watch them all, you rank them as
2:57:34
well. So I'm going to go with the ones
2:57:36
that you prefer because you get a more interesting view that
2:57:40
way, I think. And what he went for, he prefers
2:57:45
the green Death. So.
2:57:47
But I'm going to go with Green Day.
2:57:48
And because it's that end of an era, it has that effect.
2:57:51
We'll be working towards that and suddenly don't see a lot in
2:57:55
17 female television like this. And it's so well done.
2:57:59
And that ending breaks your heart every time.
2:58:02
So yeah, I'm going with the Green Day, Joe.
2:58:05
Oh. I'm going with a Carnival of
2:58:07
Monsters. It's the story that made me
2:58:10
appreciate ideas over production value, and it's just a hoop.
2:58:16
I'm really torn on this one. So when I first tried to
2:58:21
convince my now husband to watch classic Doctor Who, the first
2:58:25
story I put on was Carnival of Monsters.
2:58:27
God knows what he thought in our first scene.
2:58:29
I know. But he's clever and he's witty
2:58:31
and it's, I know, maybe well, we all pick on.
2:58:33
So City of Death, it's got a great first scene as well.
2:58:38
Do you know why you can get past one of City of Death watching
2:58:41
all four parts of Carnival So. There we go.
2:58:43
What a man. Do you know what?
2:58:48
I'm going to go Green Death as well.
2:58:50
So Green Death is going through just because I loved Joe and the
2:58:54
Doctor and this is the end to their story.
2:58:57
And it's brilliant terms of the story.
2:58:58
It's well thought through. Joe, as we talked about
2:59:01
something and I've been so well developed during this series.
2:59:03
This is a natural and organic end to to her storyline.
2:59:07
So it's heartbreaking that Carnival comes in last, but
2:59:11
Carnival of Monsters is the. 1st.
2:59:14
Of all. Well, so it's never going to
2:59:17
come back again. Did you say that's the beauty of
2:59:19
Strictly? The beauty.
2:59:23
The. Justice of this fucking podcast.
2:59:28
Who thought of this? So the second story is Planet of
2:59:31
the Daleks up against Frontier in space.
2:59:36
Crikey. The two halves of the 12 parter.
2:59:39
Let's go with John. Start with this time.
2:59:41
Again, I said because I've exhaust my beauty to my son, but
2:59:45
he prefers frontier in space beautifully.
2:59:52
It was he's 16 years old. Maybe it shouldn't because it's
2:59:55
slow when talking, but he loved it.
2:59:57
And you know, again, that it just a showpiece for that
3:00:01
Central Master Doctor Joe relationship that's been there
3:00:05
for the whole three years. So yeah, I'm going frontier on
3:00:09
this one. So do you see?
3:00:11
Do you see that slightly excused Supreme darling there behind
3:00:14
you, Josh? Oh yeah.
3:00:16
Yeah. Do you see him?
3:00:18
He's judging you right now, all right?
3:00:20
When this podcast is over, he's going to exterminate you.
3:00:24
I've got, I've got two of them. I've got the spirit as well.
3:00:26
Oh. Wow.
3:00:28
I'm in the shit after this. I tell this.
3:00:31
That is sexy. They're going to get you from.
3:00:34
Sexy where you're in the middle, What's going?
3:00:37
With a garlic sandwich. Do you know what they do with
3:00:40
their plungers? In every one plunger, in every
3:00:43
orifice anyway, moving swiftly to.
3:00:45
Jack, Jack, Oh God, I'm so. Sorry, corrupted.
3:00:48
Yeah, So what I mean, you know, I, I nominated dollars to go out
3:00:58
and I nominated Frontier in space to go through.
3:01:00
So, you know, I it's a these are two stories in the season that
3:01:06
both the thread threads that are sort of Doctor Who staples.
3:01:12
I think the difference is one of them has, you know, the main
3:01:17
creative players at the top of their game and the other one, in
3:01:21
my opinion, doesn't really, I don't think this is television
3:01:24
or David Maloney at the top of their game.
3:01:27
And I think, you know perks where man in Delgado and the the
3:01:32
richness of that Malcolm hope world building or absolutely
3:01:37
taking you know, material that I will admit has has been done a
3:01:41
lot before and after and elevating it to to more than
3:01:45
some of its parts or go with frontier and space to council So
3:01:49
2. For Frontier, Joe or?
3:01:54
I think they're both really wonderful in completely
3:01:56
different ways, but for no other reason than the fact that once
3:02:01
he hears it, he may never put that Spirodon shawl over his
3:02:04
head. Pretend to be Wester again.
3:02:07
I'm going to choose Planet of the Daleks.
3:02:10
Oh, these are hard ones, aren't they?
3:02:12
Not the. First time that's been said on
3:02:15
these podcasts. Well, it's very true, and it
3:02:17
won't be the last John. Is it the sort of thing that's
3:02:21
said on Strangers in Space? Only off Mike.
3:02:25
That's fair. I am going to have to go with
3:02:31
Frontier because it's down all of these.
3:02:34
It's Delgados last showing and it was.
3:02:38
I loved the Master and I just think Delgado is probably the
3:02:42
best master we've ever had, close with Michelle Gomez.
3:02:46
But yeah, and to to lose him and for him to but his last story,
3:02:51
he's everything you want from the Master.
3:02:54
So yeah, it's going to have to be very sadly, it's going to be
3:02:57
plants, the Daleks going. I never did like nursery rhymes
3:03:00
anyway. Oh, so plants the Daleks falls.
3:03:06
So the what will be the final spin of the Magic wheel gives us
3:03:12
Frontier and space again against the Green Death.
3:03:17
So the Three Doctors is in the final so.
3:03:20
Three doctors, the coward in the corner 3.
3:03:25
Doctors has not. Shown his face yet in round.
3:03:27
Two dead. It dead.
3:03:29
It's as pointless and as pushed to the corner as William
3:03:33
Hartnell. Oh, Ouch.
3:03:35
Green Death or Frontier Joe, let's start with you this time.
3:03:42
I really love Frontier in Space. I think it's still interesting
3:03:45
things, but as a package, the Green Death has got everything.
3:03:51
And So what I'll choose between the Green death and gullible
3:03:53
monsters. It was close because this has
3:03:56
got your monsters and your villains and your love story and
3:04:00
your companion departure and your fabulous oversized insects,
3:04:06
you know, and the Brigadier being smart and witty lions.
3:04:09
And it's just everything this era does well.
3:04:12
So the Green Death. Jack.
3:04:16
Oh yeah. I mean, you know, as I said, you
3:04:20
know, top of the show, I think the green Death is all good, you
3:04:22
know, up there for my top top some purchase story of all.
3:04:26
I think it's it, you know, it's got more of that unit feel.
3:04:32
And yeah, I appreciate Frontier. I'm pleased it's made it
3:04:37
through. It's it's battled this way so
3:04:40
far and it's not its fault the three Doctors has scumbered this
3:04:45
way into the last two. Well, Green Death, she'll be
3:04:50
defeating the three Doctors in the final.
3:04:55
Never, never prejudge on strictly, Jack.
3:04:58
We've we've learned that from bitter, bitter past, John.
3:05:02
It's two for green death. Well, Frontier in space, it's
3:05:06
that, as we said, it's that last the Empire story, it's the last
3:05:10
one they do the political out of green space.
3:05:13
And then this one brings it down to Earth where you've got, you
3:05:15
know, you've got the sharp suits against the kind of that mind
3:05:19
community looks alien. But it has more of what I love
3:05:22
because frontier space does build its world well.
3:05:26
But what this kind of era does well, I think the first time
3:05:30
does it deems it builds those communities really well.
3:05:33
It grounds it. It gives it that whole lovely
3:05:35
little will when no one's a little person, you know,
3:05:38
everyone matters. As the bird speech says,
3:05:42
everyone has, you see how they relate to each other.
3:05:43
They see how they, but they have lives beyond, you know, a Doctor
3:05:46
Who story. So I've really just got to go
3:05:50
with that, that green death and the power of that ending.
3:05:53
So Green Death is going through. I think I would have gone Green
3:05:56
Death as well. So Frontier falls.
3:06:00
So we are left with our two finalists of the Three Doctors.
3:06:05
The. Green Death the Closer is it
3:06:08
Serendipity, that's what. This one.
3:06:10
Because I think everyone knows where.
3:06:12
I'm going with this. What I will say is the beginning
3:06:15
of the season, you know, that dreadful weather balloon and all
3:06:19
those dreary scenes in UNIT, like Doctor Who has basically
3:06:23
become a parody of itself down on Earth.
3:06:26
And then at the end of that story, we're given the gift of
3:06:29
going back into space and we have Carnival of Monsters and we
3:06:32
have Frontier in Space and we have Planet of the Daleks.
3:06:35
And then it's so refreshing to come back to a contemporary
3:06:40
Earth story after all those episodes away.
3:06:42
Something we got very used to where we were desperate to go
3:06:45
into outer space, but back down to Earth with just the warmest,
3:06:51
loveliest, colorful, oh wonderful cast of characters,
3:06:56
the nut Hutch people. I love the the miners.
3:07:00
Fabulous. You know, I just think, yeah, it
3:07:03
is like the ultimate refreshment that Green Death must win.
3:07:08
John. Again, outsourcing my view to
3:07:12
myself. Yeah, it's the season, he said.
3:07:15
You know, it's one of the best seasons of the show, and he
3:07:18
loved every story in it so much. And I think that's why you're
3:07:21
kind of seeing a lot of split votes here because it's
3:07:24
genuinely all this kind of lovely level.
3:07:27
We watch it all. Some people might call it camp,
3:07:30
but but Rods banned that word. So we're not doing that.
3:07:34
But just for tension for for what my son said and just
3:07:38
because it's the show that made me absolutely fall in love when
3:07:42
I was set the doctor when I was seven.
3:07:44
It's got to be 3 doctors for me. Won the pace, Jack.
3:07:50
Jenny's win over Maggots. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm in my
3:07:56
bed. It's not particularly secret, I
3:07:59
suppose, at this point, but, you know, it's interesting that this
3:08:03
season, which it is quite, you know, cyclical in nature, and we
3:08:10
talked a lot about some of the current themes and beats of the
3:08:15
era as a whole. And this season in microcosm,
3:08:19
it's nice to sort of reflect on, you know, long-awaited returns
3:08:25
versus long dreaded goodbyes. It's nice that that that's the
3:08:30
dilemma, which is is maybe it's way for the final two.
3:08:36
I've wrapped a bit on the three doctors tonight, so I won't do
3:08:39
much more of it, but it's trying.
3:08:43
It gives the idea of an anniversary story, which
3:08:48
obviously the fans were pleading for.
3:08:51
You know, why can't the old doctors come back for so long
3:08:55
that Barry let's and turns dips just went well, let's take that
3:08:58
idea and work with it as much as we we can.
3:09:03
And it's not its fault that the five doctors is is then there
3:09:07
the doctor and power the doctor or better, but it is its fault,
3:09:11
but it's just not that good. And the green death, you know,
3:09:19
is is prime Barry. Let's I mean, my favorite two
3:09:22
stories of the season were the ones with the most Barry let's
3:09:25
involvement, obviously, the one he directed and the one that he
3:09:29
basically wrote. You know, Gabe, the sort of
3:09:32
Russell T debut is the right to and yeah, it's the perfect they
3:09:41
know how to proft a season of television, but it's a proper
3:09:46
season. It's not just here's a point in
3:09:50
the calendar where these doctors stories on it's you know, they
3:09:55
they're a link to gimmons middle ends.
3:09:58
And I think it it lands the ending so well, but on its own
3:10:06
and as part of the collective, it goes down as one the best.
3:10:11
It's always the feelings. So I have to say it's between
3:10:14
this. Before you make your phone, it's
3:10:18
like I want to do a metaphor. The three doctors, you know,
3:10:22
you, you have a, you've had a long successful career, you
3:10:25
know, and you know, the sort of work parties that everyone's
3:10:28
talking about for months and months.
3:10:30
Oh, we're going to have our best time ever.
3:10:33
And then you all turn up on the night and it's the most fucking
3:10:36
agonizing experience of your life.
3:10:38
Cheap, lazily organized, you know, unendurably terrible.
3:10:44
That's all of the three dogs, doesn't it?
3:10:45
Let's be. Honest.
3:10:46
Oh, I thought he's talking about great death.
3:10:53
Serendipity. Ros, I hear what you're saying,
3:10:56
but Oh, no droughts and just a joy of seeing them back again
3:11:03
was lovely. But at the end of the day, I
3:11:08
always say characters are what I like.
3:11:12
And we have in here the natural climax of a Jo's story and her
3:11:19
character has been so brilliantly developed and this
3:11:22
is a natural ending to it. Whereas we got Brigadier who
3:11:27
refuses to listen to Benton or Mr. Otis or Professor Tyler or
3:11:32
anybody that both doctors are there and he just seems stupid.
3:11:36
So on that basis of character alone, although there are other
3:11:40
reasons too, it's got to be the Green Dafters now.
3:11:43
So beat that is our winner. I'm.
3:11:47
Not saying this off the T-shirt. Oh, as if.
3:11:51
You had it, did you? Put it at.
3:11:53
The. Start.
3:11:54
No, I've got it off red bubble. I absolutely was convinced.
3:11:58
Carnival of Monsters was going to get this one.
3:12:00
So I was it was the 1st to go out.
3:12:04
Fantastic. Well, it's been a hard slog, but
3:12:06
we got there in the end and it is indeed the green death.
3:12:11
Crikey. You guys have already mentioned
3:12:13
it, but our next episode is going to be Drum Roll series 11
3:12:19
with Jodie Whittaker. Yes, bring.
3:12:21
It. On Bring on the Bitching.
3:12:26
Featuring the ultimate Doctor Who classic, the Battle of Red
3:12:29
Score Avkolos. I will try and take lots of wake
3:12:34
up pills before that to try to keep awake during it but.
3:12:38
Jeff from who called us, the caller coming on and he's the
3:12:42
biggest Jody stand going. He might be in tears by the end
3:12:46
of it, but let's thank our guests for tonight who have done
3:12:50
sterling work in a very difficult season because it's so
3:12:55
good. Gentlemen, where can people find
3:12:58
you on the interweb and is there anything you'd like to point
3:13:01
them towards, Jack? Oh well, I mean my I can be
3:13:05
found in a couple of bit. I mean, I'm on Twitter as a Jack
3:13:10
Hoyer 1996, which might give you an implication of how old that
3:13:17
and yeah, I could be found with Joe obviously doing the Edge of
3:13:20
Destruction and Young quiet bed. If you look up those on the
3:13:24
hamster channels then I'm sure you'll come across me with the.
3:13:29
Age of Destruction commentary was so compelling.
3:13:33
That was the one of the reasons why I'll put it through in the
3:13:35
season one episode, all right? Oh, I look forward to it.
3:13:38
I was terrified you're going to just all bit immediately I
3:13:41
thought there's no way people are going to.
3:13:44
Yeah. And obviously with Dynamis
3:13:47
Choice, which depending on when this comes out, may or may not
3:13:50
be released by that point. So eventually we'll hear that
3:13:55
and yeah, hopefully I'll be on for a lot more hamsters and, you
3:13:59
know, in the future. What we're planning.
3:14:03
Oh gosh I can't remember what I mean.
3:14:05
We human nature family of blood, human nature family of blood.
3:14:09
The awakening me and Stephen BF doing and Edwin's favorite John
3:14:14
purchased already from Monster. Oh gold.
3:14:17
Fabulous. And John, where can people find
3:14:21
you? I'm on Twitter as at the under
3:14:25
score arm. I'm on Blue Sky under my name at
3:14:27
John Arnold. I'm talking nonsense on
3:14:32
Strangers in Space quite regularly, or the Black archives
3:14:35
are available from good others, books, websites everywhere.
3:14:39
Fantastic. And thank you both very much for
3:14:42
your time tonight. Joe, It just remains for us to
3:14:45
say. Blessing.
3:14:51
Good. Night.
3:14:52
Everyone got in at last. Brilliant.
3:15:12
The. The.