Latest / The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast / Why Starting Deshaun Watson is a Mistake (with Derek Brown from FantasyPros) - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 5/21/26

Transcript

Why Starting Deshaun Watson is a Mistake (with Derek Brown from FantasyPros) - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 5/21/26 · The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast

0:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in our blood, it's in our bones Orange and brown, yeah, we ride for our own Like a dog, peg runnin' We ain't a long game, big cums Get ready for the show It's our call, it's our walk, it's our song We stand tall, yeah, we've been here all alone Through it all the dog, pounds, then it's strong We all, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah
0:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we all dogs, welcome to the dogs podcast with your hopes, Blake Rennaker, Justin Charles, Kenny Mack, and John Shaw.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, what's up everybody?
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to another episode of The Dog's Podcast Joshua.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: One of your hosts that a man do we ever have a special guest lined up for you guys today.
0:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The other night, Justin and myself sat down with Derek Brown, that's right.
0:52
[SPEAKER_01]: D-Brow, fantasy, pro's, Derek Brown joins the show, gives us his perspective on all things Cleveland Browns.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The quarterback.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: competition to Sean Watson versus Shador Sanders, we dive heavily into that conversation and a lot of things surrounding it on this episode.
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The conversation was so awesome.
1:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We spent a lot of time with Derek the other night.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an amazing get together.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be split into two episodes for you guys because we had a lot to discuss.
1:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing we're going to talk about here today obviously is going to be focusing on the quarterback situation in Cleveland.
1:31
[SPEAKER_01]: get Derek's perspective, some deep analytical metrics that he has to share with you guys.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't say enough about the wealth of knowledge and information that Derek possesses and brought to the episode.
1:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys are gonna love it.
1:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the next episode, we look at all the other pieces on the Browns offense, those new wide receivers we drafted.
1:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked Jerry Judy, we talked Isaiah Bond, we talked Harold Fan and Joe Royer,
2:02
[SPEAKER_01]: on the Browns offense in 2026 and beyond.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's get over to that conversation real quick.
2:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll remind you guys before we do go to join the dogs dot com if you want to be part of the 24 seven conversation in our just ever growing ever expanding online Browns community.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a great place.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Get into the private discord.
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Hang out with us during the Discord live episodes.
2:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on the show, talk to us, ask us questions, get to know everybody in there.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Me, Justin, Blake, Kenny Mac, and everybody else who's in the dog packet is a great time and fantasy football signups will open on June 1st.
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got everything ready to go for the registration.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: All I gotta do is make it live and you guys can start signing up for the fantasy leagues, which, again, I keep reminding you guys the drafts will be late August, early September, right before the season starts.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But you want to get in now.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to reserve your spot.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: All you got to do, be a member of the dog pack.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can reserve a spot, no problem.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So get in now, get in early, don't wait, and just let's have a good time.
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get to know everybody in there and join the conversation at jointhedogs.com.
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of some fantasy stuff, we will get into a little fantasy talk with Derek Brown at the end of the second episode at the end of part two of this conversation.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's kick it over.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Part one right now with Derek Brown.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody, like we said in the opening, we've got Derek Brown, Fantasy Analyst from Fantasy Pros.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that look for?
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's just what I think.
3:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, I don't want to tell you, it happens.
3:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got Deepro join in us.
3:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the, I said, what do we call you tonight?
3:43
[SPEAKER_01]: He's that doer of things, no more of things, semi-noer of things.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's going to tell us what he does at least believe.
3:50
[SPEAKER_01]: based on his research and analysis of the Cleveland Browns for this season.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about the quarterbacks.
3:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to dive into these rookies.
3:57
[SPEAKER_01]: We drafted primarily the wider severs, conception and boss.
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I know Derek, you were high on those guys.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I right about that?
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very right about that.
4:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You listening to you and your breakdown of these guys is what had me so excited about them in the pre-draft process.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then once we did actually somehow, like both these guys, I still don't know how that happened.
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Crazy.
4:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we'll talk about all that.
4:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Justin's got some questions he wants to run through, so we'll just have a fun conversation here.
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That dude, it's gonna be blast.
4:24
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, man, well, let's kick it off with the quarterback conversation, obviously.
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got in Cleveland.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I know this is one you'd love to talk about.
4:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Deshawn Watson, the $230 million dollar three first-round draft pick, quarterback for the Browns, who somehow, after all that, is not the quarterback by default.
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He is in the competition.
4:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Wistardor Sanders, the second year fifth round pick from last year, who,
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe he was your number one quarterback pre-draft.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
4:53
[SPEAKER_03]: He was, he was the number one quarterback pre-draft post-draft because of, you know, the draft capital and stuff he felt on the board.
4:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I did move, it was, shoulder was my KB1 going into pre-draft, Jackson Dar was my KB2, but because of the draft capital stuff, I moved Dar to my KB1.
5:08
[SPEAKER_03]: But I know, I love Shoulder's game, pre-draft.
5:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, just as a prospect.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's what I keep trying to reiterate because, you know, you get the comments on social media.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's just a fifth round pick, fifth round pick.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't a typical situation.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: When is the last time that a player was a consensus top 10 mocked player, the entire pre-drive process and fell all the way to the fifth round?
5:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that doesn't happen.
5:32
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that doesn't happen and you know, we could, that don't want to sidebar this into like, you know, a long conversation about why that happened and stuff.
5:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll just suffice to say, I think a good bit of why that happened was his interviews with teams and stuff went very, very poorly.
5:49
[SPEAKER_03]: having your dad kind of like in your ear representing and where he where deon comes from and I mean deon doesn't give any kind of crap about it now because I mean I think about it's like he's not in the league you know so when you're pouring a lot of this stuff into your sons ear and advising him how to like conduct yourself and do all this kind of stuff and things
6:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Shidorah was kind of like sold a bed set of goods by his own dad and had a conduct himself and some of these team interviews from everything I heard and what have you.
6:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think all of that kind of, you know, led plus like your deon son, it's kind of like,
6:25
[SPEAKER_03]: You know the media circus that's going to be around Chador and stuff like that, too, whether you draft him in round one or round four and stuff.
6:33
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of like what team wants to take that on, too.
6:35
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like not a one for one comparison, but you know, when Tim Tibo was in the league, even though like after years of proving he wasn't very good at quarterback, wherever he went, there was a gaggle of it was a media circus no matter where he was.
6:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think you put all of that
6:53
[SPEAKER_03]: and you can craft a pretty good narrative of why shudder fell outside of the talent.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that makes sense, but then on the talent side of things, though.
7:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's take all that off the table.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you said you had them very highly rated.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we'll just look at this season, in your opinion, what would be the best route for the Browns to take for their Keith Tharton, Star Shoulder Sanders, don't let Dishon Watson see the field, period, full stop, don't care, that would be the way to
7:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to have, Deshawn has gone after this year.
7:31
[SPEAKER_03]: What good do you have by playing him this year?
7:35
[SPEAKER_03]: If he plays and he plays well, what?
7:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So he comes back to you after this year and tries to what negotiating an extension, but have you, he's not a young quarterback.
7:45
[SPEAKER_03]: He's honestly been got awful when he's been on the field of the last few years when we have seen him.
7:50
[SPEAKER_03]: He's coming off of two Achilles tears.
7:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Would of any of this,
7:55
[SPEAKER_03]: helps your franchise.
7:58
[SPEAKER_03]: If Shidorah can take a step forward and he can at least look like an answer as a franchise quarterback, or give you hope that he could be that guy.
8:08
[SPEAKER_03]: That's probably not going to preclude you from drafting a guy next year.
8:12
[SPEAKER_03]: if this team wins more games than anybody thinks that they can, then again, that's a positive, not a negative per se.
8:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And from a culture building standpoint with a new head coach, you, that's what everybody's like, they go through this like, oh, well, they, they need to suck, they need to lose games.
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done that.
8:36
[SPEAKER_03]: No, yeah.
8:37
[SPEAKER_03]: But from a realistic standpoint, all of these guys are fighting for their jobs and their livelihoods.
8:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Every one of those guys that is on that active roster is not only fighting for, I want to keep my job in the NFL, both for this year and the guys that are in on any one-year deals or the guaranteed money falls off their contracts after this year, they're fighting for a job next year.
8:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So nobody is going to go out there regardless and try to lose, play bad, or suck.
9:04
[SPEAKER_03]: that's just it's a ridiculous narrative anytime it gets thrown out there because it's like it's just you're you're saying with supposed common sense that players want to play bad for what?
9:16
[SPEAKER_03]: The players that are on this team right now don't give a crap where they pick next year because they don't even know if they're going to be on this team next year if everything works out right or it doesn't work out right.
9:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So
9:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think it's a load of garbage.
9:29
[SPEAKER_03]: They should be starting sugar sanders.
9:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I understand from the perspective.
9:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is where I think that like how it's getting framed right now of it's a competition.
9:38
[SPEAKER_03]: You heard a lot of the stuff like coming out of like the very, very beginnings of
9:42
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, this office he's imposed draft of like Watson's the leader of it, brother, they're in t-shirts and shorts.
9:48
[SPEAKER_03]: He ain't lead nothing.
9:50
[SPEAKER_03]: They haven't had real practices yet.
9:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And now that we have OTAs opening up, oh, they're splitting reps.
9:56
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was told to Sean Watson was definitively ahead, and he was QB1.
10:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, so let's cut the crap.
10:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think a lot of that is
10:06
[SPEAKER_03]: If with Monka being a new head coach and culture and everything, I think a lot of this comes back to he has to earn it and you need to make him earn it.
10:17
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you want your young quarter back to prove it to earn it, yeah,
10:22
[SPEAKER_03]: make him win the damn job.
10:26
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.
10:27
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's what I'm taking away from this and before we get in further deeper, you know, any deeper into this, like I just went everybody to fully understand too.
10:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Should your came out of college as a prospect?
10:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we need all be kind of rewind of who he was as a prospect as well.
10:43
[SPEAKER_03]: In 2024, amongst all FPS quarterbacks, at least 150 dropbacks.
10:48
[SPEAKER_03]: He was third in passing grade.
10:50
[SPEAKER_03]: He was fourth in a just a completion rate.
10:52
[SPEAKER_03]: He was 12th in yards per attempt.
10:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Deeper metrics.
10:55
[SPEAKER_03]: He was 18th in deep all completion rate.
10:58
[SPEAKER_03]: 17th in pressure, a just a completion rate.
11:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I just keep rattling this off because it's all true.
11:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Second in clean pocket, a just a completion rate and eighth in clean pocket pass rating.
11:07
[SPEAKER_03]: So regardless of whatever that you look at that has tangible meaning as a prospect, Shiduravuk, pretty damn good.
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we, we were a long board here on this show for taking him to, yeah, in the during this.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was up until, yeah, yeah, figure it out, figure a quarterback situation out.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I, something to touch on that you said, like the whole guy's talking about, you know, the just losing games purposely tanking.
11:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I've argued that so much that, look what purposely, not purposely tanking, but look what, not winning games got us the last couple of years, but almost lost our best player.
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Miles Garrett was ready to absolutely walk out the door on this franchise, a city that he loves, and I'm like, those are the risks that you run.
11:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you want to talk about, oh, we got a tank for Jeremiah Smith or whoever it is, you know, the next big name that's going to be number one or whatever on the draft board.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the consequences that you're gonna face is you might lose your franchise player He might just want to get the hell out of here.
12:07
[SPEAKER_00]: He's wasted enough time with his career But I just thought that was interesting.
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You brought that up.
12:11
[SPEAKER_03]: You might lose the entire freaking club house But none of these guys like nobody goes to a certain team or signs of contract or wants to be an environment We're losing
12:23
[SPEAKER_03]: is the end goal, losing is the illness, like, I mean, just again going from this a common sense standpoint, like anybody that played any type of organized sports growing up, whether that was high school college, what have you?
12:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Did anybody that put on cleats, pads, a jersey,
12:44
[SPEAKER_03]: at all or it had any type of level of competition with any fricking sport.
12:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Did anybody go into it saying, how yeah, baby, let's lose our ass as off.
12:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's freaking lose.
12:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's lose.
12:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
12:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard the JV roasters got a lot of young guys coming up that are going to put their next year.
13:03
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, why don't we talk about it?
13:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I really don't know.
13:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just
13:07
[SPEAKER_03]: But people don't think about it.
13:09
[SPEAKER_03]: They hear the narrative that's pushed out there by bigger media or whatever.
13:13
[SPEAKER_03]: People were talking points and it's like, oh, yeah, they've got to suck for this guy.
13:18
[SPEAKER_03]: They've got to lose.
13:19
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, it's so freaking stupid.
13:23
[SPEAKER_01]: it is so stupid and to your point I think the idea of tanking would be more of a to me it's more of a front office approach to the to everything because or maybe not even that well yeah I guess so that in coach but if they tank and they lose can't the front office all lose their job to you right now unless you have
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of assurance because then it's like, well, you put the best players on the field.
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: They just weren't all that very, you know, and they were very good.
13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't help anybody to go down that path, like you said.
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: No, because Justin, how many times last year did I bet you're about the losing culture that we were sucked inside?
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Kevin Stephansky, with this Browns team, we just couldn't get out of it.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no accountability, nobody got,
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: held accountable for anything weird.
14:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember literally a Mari Cooper that like pros pro Nick Chub version of wide receiver rolling his eyes during a play call and just go on we are screwed.
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like the second game of the season.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like we are so screwed.
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We are that entire season.
14:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, dude, he was given up on routes and stuff.
14:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like he was you could see if you turned on the all 22 you saw what was doing and what he wasn't doing to.
14:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
14:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And then coming off of the year where he dominated to like he was an absolute
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: complete just, uh, well, and that was 2024.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the last time to show on Watson started games for this team.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the first time.
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a first time we saw him after Dick, I know you mentioned the two Achilles tears.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't seen him yet, but that was the first time in 2024.
14:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw him after the shoulder surgery.
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: that we didn't really have a good case study of that ever happening to another quarter back in the league that I could find.
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you have a pretty much a first case of that that sort of break that he had.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He looked terrible.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He couldn't throw the ball.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we already have in problems with dirt balls and stuff with him completely healthy.
15:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then to got even worse, he couldn't throw the ball past five yards and everything was in the dirt or if he did go past five yards, it was 10 yards over the guy's head out of bounds.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We won one
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: in seven starks in 2024 with him at quarterback.
15:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I just don't see the, I just don't understand why anybody would think it's going to be better now.
15:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't either, and the thing about it is I do agree with them making an open competition to make him earn it, but outside of that, like, why would you be starting to Sean Watson regardless of anything that we've already mentioned here in stuff, too?
15:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, if you want to talk about the ability of the offensive system and structure,
15:58
[SPEAKER_03]: After two Achilles tears, does anybody really think we're going to access to Sean Watson's Mobility?
16:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, is that really still a thing?
16:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Whereas you look at Shidorah Sanders, his final five starts, he was averaging almost 30 rushing arts per game.
16:16
[SPEAKER_03]: There is some mobility, some untapped potential there with what he can do with his legs.
16:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not telling anybody that he's going to go out and he's going to be freaking the Marjaxon.
16:23
[SPEAKER_03]: But can he give you 300 yards on the ground, maybe four?
16:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Can he give you the ability to whether it's cubic movement, motion, boot action, stuff of things that nature of the RPO game and all of these parts of pieces,
16:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Is he a more mobile quarterback than to Sean Watson at this point of his career?
16:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that that should shock anybody by anybody saying that that is a fact.
16:49
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16:51
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18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: he averaged more yards rushing per game in his seven stars than to Sean Watson did in his last seven stars that he played and should or average more yards per scramble which and what's another thing that people remember
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: or even realize, especially if you're not like in it like we are all the time as Browns fans, Shidorah Sanders had no rushing game.
18:54
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no run game for him to lean on in our offense, whatever he was starting.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He was our leading rusher three out of his seven starts and he was only seven yards shy of being the leading rusher of fourth game.
19:06
[SPEAKER_03]: that doesn't say surprised me at all.
19:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, kind of going in tandem with that, he had no offensive line on whenever he was back there.
19:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I sent this in DMs earlier in the week, but during his seven starts in weeks 12 through 18, he was pressured at the third highest rate in the freaking NFL on 50.4% of his drop-ax.
19:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you look at all of these different factors.
19:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Jerry Judy is massively overrated as a player.
19:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Harold Fan was probably his only credible receiving threat on an entire freaking depth chart last year.
19:45
[SPEAKER_03]: There wasn't much of a run game.
19:47
[SPEAKER_03]: They couldn't block anybody to save their lives.
19:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Shoulder got no first stream reps. Kevin's defense key, honestly, I...
19:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a fair question to ask, Did he honestly want the kid to fail because I don't think he said him up for success?
20:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So you stack all of this just on top of each other against Shidorin.
20:08
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, what the hell did you expect him to do?
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: What honestly, what did you expect him to do?
20:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And what he did do was impressive considering all that to me.
20:22
[SPEAKER_03]: He almost single-handedly beat the Titans by his damn self if they didn't screw him over and pull the Juddkins non-sense at the freaking goal line, man.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the, we did that game live and we're going, what, what, why are we going for two?
20:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we don't know what's in.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The goofiness, just straight up goofiness.
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the play call was hilarious.
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We laughed hard, didn't we, Justin?
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I cried.
20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I cried tears of, I don't know if it was a lie.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Joy, but I have definitely laughed so hard that I tears running out of my eyes because
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: just listening to our other co-host freaking out.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great stuff.
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a cool thing, man.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a painful thing.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just not even emotionally damaged anymore, just like whatever you got, just throw it at us.
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: All fake wildcat, reverse, yes, for two for no reason.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell yeah, let's do that.
21:09
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like all done.
21:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Torture scene, man.
21:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And the guys getting hit in the nords, and he's like laughing and crying.
21:14
[SPEAKER_03]: He's in so much freaking pain.
21:15
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the only thing I could go pair it to.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yep.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That was Kevin right there.
21:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and let's execute this play with rookies and some UDFA guys Yeah, I don't work out real well.
21:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know man like and and speaking, you know you said they had no offensive line We talked about the no-run game UDFA wide receivers last year, man.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It was you know, you got Malachi, Corley.
21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We got off the Jets practice squad gauge.
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it then
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I say it on yeah, I mean that those were our top guys up after Judy said her Tilman's nowhere to be found so it was brutal.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Last year was just all around that situation.
21:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, but you look at how, I mean, I do.
21:52
[SPEAKER_03]: If I was a Browns fan right now, I'd be incredibly happy about the direction of the last two drafts and where the direction of the compass is pointing right now for this franchise, man, like, baby, we can be off the run in this year.
22:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Seriously, I'm not trying to just blow smoke up your butts, but like,
22:09
[SPEAKER_03]: These last two draft classes have moved some needles and, you know, there's still a lot of things that I know we're going to get into of like things that have to go right that right now on paper might look very rosy of an outlook, but we still have to see that like these positives come to fruition so like
22:28
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that the big takeaway for me over these last two drive classes for this front office is I mean it's fantastic like I know you know for other fan bases and like say like the eagles and the ravens and however people are like how he's doing it again bro and your barriers doing it again like he is absolutely smashed of these last two drive classes I don't know what they changed inside of their front office as far as process and how that all looks.
22:58
[SPEAKER_03]: but the proof is in the pudding.
23:00
[SPEAKER_03]: These last two drive classes have been freaking awesome.
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
23:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Justin knows I think a lot to do with the removal of Paul D. Pedesta.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
23:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that to play a part of it.
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't disagree.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't disagree at all.
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and yes, D. Pedesta was still here technically during the draft last year, but he was taking that job.
23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The baseball job because it's the C, the M.A.B.
23:21
[SPEAKER_01]: season was over.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He was gone.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he had that job locked and loaded.
23:24
[SPEAKER_01]: He was out.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this year, obviously, not there.
23:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And the draft approach is way different because I feel like they were very analytical.
23:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were just, they weren't taking football players.
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We complained about that all the time.
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And just, why can we just watch film and say, this guy's a good football player, take him.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's not that hard, I feel like.
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And the last two drafts, we've done that outside of Dylan Gabriel.
23:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're which.
23:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm very curious of who was in the draft room, pounding the table for Gabriel when they were on the clock versus, you know, even taking sugar with that pick.
23:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Kevin.
24:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Kevin.
24:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's my lean too.
24:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was definitely a defense ski, especially in the dude.
24:05
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, I don't hate Dillon Gabriel the player, but there's so many limitations with his game just because of his height and
24:14
[SPEAKER_03]: when we get into like quarterback play and you're looking at like what are what are actual things like that can limit a quarterback whether it's it's hand size and speed and all other kind of stuff.
24:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the hand size thing has a little bit of merit but it's a lot of fluff and a lot of goofy.
24:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the quarterback height discussion is absolutely real.
24:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And just from a common sense standpoint, these guys cannot see the middle of the field.
24:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And for everybody that doesn't think that that's real and they want to point to Calamurri and Russell Wilson, it's like, yeah, I can also pick up doing Gabriel, Bryce Young, a ton of other freaking quarterbacks where it is emphatically real.
24:56
[SPEAKER_03]: that they cannot access the middle of the field, you have to get these guys in the move or you have to do all sorts of line spacing and things like that like Sean Peyton designed to his offense and how they they're blocking schemes everything.
25:07
[SPEAKER_03]: So Drew Breeze could actually see and diagnose the middle of the field.
25:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and that, but that also goes back into why Peyton has also been a huge proponent of the screen game and the running backs in the passing game to also counteract that, that's a staple of his offense, but going back to all of this, dealing Gabriel is a limited quarterback, it just, it is what it is, man, and that's not like I'm not shading him, but because of his height, that's a real thing.
25:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And you saw it last year when he played.
25:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, you go ahead, Jesse.
25:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was just going to say even before that, we used to get frustrated about Baker Mayfield getting balls battered down at the line.
25:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
25:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We used to get upset about that and have conversations about how we got to get that guy out in space and get him into passing lanes so that, you know, he could see it.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: We were worried about the line with that kind of stuff, so, and Gabriel Schorter, how much better.
25:59
[SPEAKER_01]: One year evident that last year when the rookies came in, I mean, Dylan Gabriel was taking first team reps right off the rip.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They just, yeah, here you go Kevin said here you're taking first team reps along with go and can you pick it at the time?
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And Shador was the afterthought.
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Fast forward a year later, Dylan Gabriel's taken, I think he threw four passes to the team at team drills at OTAs.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's all to Sean and Shador.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, obviously, it was a Kevin thing for sure.
26:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I, I fully believe it was a Kevin thing.
26:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it just screams to me like almost, uh, the way that's defense key handled all of this.
26:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And dude, I mean, just if you want to zoom out from like, a body language standpoint anytime that he was ever asking any questions about Shoulder, anytime that they ask him about the draft process and selecting him and stuff,
26:53
[SPEAKER_03]: just read his body language like just put the TV on mute and watch him throughout an entire press or you could almost pick it out when they ask him questions about shooter Sanders like he just looked like he was trying to crap out a pearl like it was automatically like he was tense he was awkward and I'm just like like man like if that's how you want to treat the kid look nobody can
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess before we shift into some of this other talk, you sent me a couple of stats the other day that I don't want you read out for everybody on it was the deep all passing right.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah deeper metrics on the deep all passing between Shador last year and to shine in 2024 guys this is very interesting information here.
27:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so last year amongst 26 qualifying quarterbacks for shudders Sanders and these 26 had at least 15 deep all attempts.
27:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Shidorah Sanders was third in highly accurate throw rate and 13th in catchable target rate.
27:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, a lot of his other passing metrics didn't look great on a per drop-back basis, but those numbers, I don't care how every splice them, they're really working good.
28:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, you juxtapose that with Deschond Watson.
28:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And in 2024, Deschond Watson in 2024 amongst 43 qualifying quarterbacks with at least 15 deep all attempts.
28:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that everybody is automatically going to just think and know that they're not going to be good stats and Bingo, you're right, they're not horrible.
28:31
[SPEAKER_03]: They're bottom five in the same two categories of highly accurate throw rate and catchable target rate amongst 43 qualifying quarterbacks in 2024 to Sean Watson was 40th and highly accurate throw rate and 42nd and catchable target rate on deep balls.
28:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is a large grab bag and not good.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, out of what 43 qualifying quarterbacks for Watson, there was only 26 that qualified for that metric.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for last year's, and even larger group of guys, and he was still at the bottom of the barrel there.
29:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, it's just not good, man.
29:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, whatever magic Watson had, and we could also go back through Watson's tenure in Houston, there was a lot of bad teams, a lot of broken plays, a lot of,
29:20
[SPEAKER_03]: backyard day off.
29:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to hurt browns fans of bringing up a name of yesterday, but a lot of Johnny Manzell football that was being played in Houston of a lot of, let's run around in circles and chuck a deeper.
29:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to use my legs and a lot of that other stuff, and it's like heat.
29:37
[SPEAKER_01]: can't do that at this point of his career.
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He just can't physically, can't do it.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we talked about all the time.
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: How the mobility in the athleticism looked like it had taken the drop off when he was healthy.
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're talking like we said already, two Achilles tears, this is going to be his age 31 season.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can't believe the people that actually think there's a chance he's going to play the way he did when he was 24.
30:02
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that's a fool's errand.
30:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Anybody's saying that or truly believing that is honestly blind to themselves.
30:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And find like, keep your book and clip this up.
30:12
[SPEAKER_03]: If Watson goes out and has a stellar season, clip it up, clip it up, browns, fandom, and post it everywhere, find, I don't care.
30:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Because anybody that's gonna tell you, they really believe that that's gonna happen.
30:27
[SPEAKER_03]: it's just foolish.
30:28
[SPEAKER_03]: It really is.
30:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And if it does come to fruition and it does happen fine, I'll eat all these words.
30:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll put them on a platter and I'll tear it up.
30:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, salt and pepper all day.
30:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Love it.
30:39
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think it's going to happen.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're already here in the stuff you know that he like looks great at OTAs in the mini campus stuff like you said it's shorts and t-shirts Yeah, but like me and Justin This happens every year.
30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: This is every year 24 this is 20 years already.
30:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We got the reports from training campus Man, he looks so great and everything.
30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like awesome.
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know game start Not so great
31:05
[SPEAKER_03]: guys is out on errands practices on air and a lot of this stuff that that's also well like I feel like with everybody that's truly dialed into their team and this is not just browns fandom specific but be very careful of the content that you consume as far as from beat writers.
31:26
[SPEAKER_03]: There are a whole lot of fanboy bloggers out there that
31:30
[SPEAKER_03]: pace themselves as being beatwriters, but it's really just like, hey, we're just going to hype the hell out of whatever we possibly can hype for clicks and social media and all that kind of crap or it gets picked up and backlinked somewhere, not because it's actual substance.
31:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But because, you know, it's, it's, it's a little bit of self-serving kind of content.
31:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like where all browns fans are frustrated right now.
31:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because you see cleave of media, you know, kind of trying, not, they're basically, you know, trying to make some kind of agenda for clicks probably.
32:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But every excuse in the book for Watson, whether it was rust or, you know, a lot of stuff going on mentally.
32:11
[SPEAKER_00]: in off-field, on-field, you know, injuries.
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Then last year ended, we're coming off of wins, we're excited about the future of the team.
32:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We have another great draft, and then all of a sudden we're just shitting on Chador, and he sucks, and he makes mistakes and games that aren't fixable for a rookie.
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't understand what happened exactly.
32:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
32:35
[SPEAKER_00]: As far as with this team, I left last year going I'm I'm excited.
32:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We beat two teams that used to shit on us every year in the Steelers and you know, you know, like in teams like that, we're coming away with wins and we're complaining.
32:47
[SPEAKER_00]: We're saying that we don't have a future with this kid.
32:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And that we're going back to Watson.
32:52
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing Watson 5.0 experiment.
32:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just, I don't get it, man.
32:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I don't understand it.
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It's frustrating to me.
32:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I,
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was a guy that defended Watson, oh yeah, it was Rust, you know, you took a year and a half off, you know, sure, lots of stuff going on.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm at the point where I'm done defending, like there's nothing to defend, like you said, the future is very kind of like, it's common sense if you want this team to be successful moving forward, that's not the guy, it's not, that's worst case scenario, like, okay, maybe you win some games and stuff like that, but you're still financially screwed.
33:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know what you have with your young players, you know, like as far as quarterback
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just such a mind-boggling situation that this team has gotten itself into as far as just what's being put out there.
33:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure that it's like that in the building, but just what's being reported and said is insane to me.
33:46
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36:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't disagree with it all and I'm I'm pulling this up as we're kind of talking right now, but I'm kind of curious too.
36:59
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, as we're kind of discussing this and I know that everybody's pushback will be.
37:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, all right.
37:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what are you going to do if you start should door in this team surprises people.
37:12
[SPEAKER_03]: and they win more games than anybody thinks they should be in or they should win.
37:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's all because it's your door and people are going to automatically say, okay, fine, but going back to the, you know, we need to tank, we need to suck for a quarterback.
37:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, fine, if you don't want to believe that should door can be your long, long-term franchise pass or okay, that's fine, that I get it, I get it.
37:37
[SPEAKER_03]: When Deshawn Watson's contract comes off the books after 2026, and I just pulled this up, Cleveland right now as it stands has 45 million caps-based 13th most in the NFL in 2027.
37:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you, if this team does surprise and let's just, let's, let's give the fever drain pitch,
37:57
[SPEAKER_03]: all the games this year.
37:59
[SPEAKER_03]: They're in the running for a wild card.
38:02
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't make it there, but they win nine games this year, and they're a game over 500, and then everybody's like playing the whole push and pull of, but they want to win the games.
38:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Now they're out of the quarterback market.
38:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Does nobody understand that, okay, with this 2027 NFL class that's coming in with all these quarterbacks, you're going to have other quarterbacks that you get displaced in that process.
38:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And this team will actually have cap space to play with, to maybe go out and sign or trade for a quarterback, even if they take themselves out of the quarterback market in the NFL draft.
38:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not saying just wash rinse for Pete and let's,
38:41
[SPEAKER_03]: basically repeat the sins of yesterday or of like, well, to Sean Watson, that's screwed, as that blew up in our faces, trading for quarterback, but they will have the optionality of either we draft the guy or we sign a guy or something like that.
38:58
[SPEAKER_03]: They will have multiple routes to a quarterback, even if like, they don't want to go to contour as their long term franchise quarterback.
39:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They will still have options.
39:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard the same even worse I've heard the so that was that was a nice way of saying I've heard what if they wouldn't And games how are we gonna get our quarterback next year like he's not even part of the success of doing any of it It's like I just I don't my thing is is
39:25
[SPEAKER_00]: all I heard was 2026 was going to be the year of the quarterback in the draft, you know what I mean?
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't.
39:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It straight up wasn't, man.
39:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
39:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, everybody were excited about the 2027 draft as far as, you know, whether you're football fan, fantasy, fan, whatever, you know.
39:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But
39:41
[SPEAKER_00]: it's not all guaranteed you know like the moxa end at the end of the year never end up being I we always laugh who was who was it this past year club Nick was there you know projected guy to go through Aller was a first year quarterback baby.
39:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, you know here.
39:57
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fire.
39:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Mike
40:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Archbending was going 101.
40:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I absolutely agree with everything you just laid out there and I keep poking people about all the hype about this 2027 class and that I feel like that's just the realm that we live in now.
40:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, this class isn't the class, next year's class, baby, that's going to be the class.
40:20
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the class where you're just, and it's like, man, come on, man.
40:25
[SPEAKER_03]: We're living in an NL era, guys are staying in school long and longer than they ever have, because in more power to them, right?
40:33
[SPEAKER_03]: They are a professional football players right now getting paid millions of dollars in life-changing money.
40:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you could secure the back for you and your family and the rest of your life, regardless of what
40:44
[SPEAKER_03]: ever the hell happens to you in the NFL.
40:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And you go to the NFL, you rip up your knee and you never play another freaking snap outside of your work you season.
40:52
[SPEAKER_03]: You've already got generational wealth in your bank account.
40:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Kudos to you, young man.
40:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Hell yes, let's go outside of that.
40:59
[SPEAKER_03]: We're doing what.
41:00
[SPEAKER_03]: We're lining the pockets of fat cats and boosters and stuff for colleges because that money is better served in their pockets.
41:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Hell no.
41:07
[SPEAKER_03]: So with all of this stuff, it goes back to
41:10
[SPEAKER_03]: it's the hyping of next year and getting the buzz and all is kind of stuff and it's like but what if half of these quarterbacks go out and they play like crap or half of them stay in school and or a lot of them go out and don't play good and then they don't come out or they do come out and we're like well they were really good the year before but they're not really good now so I don't know what to grow it all goes back to what you were just laying out there so yes this all goes back to
41:33
[SPEAKER_03]: If the Browns win more games than people, think they're going to, and Shidorah really looks like he can be a short and long-term answer for this franchise, if the franchise wants to invest in him and keep building up a situation around him, I think it's smart.
41:51
[SPEAKER_03]: if they want to pivot off of him, they should have them.
41:53
[SPEAKER_03]: They will have the money in the cap space to where they have this flexibility of finding an answer.
42:00
[SPEAKER_03]: If they don't think that Shidorah is the answer past 2026, they can figure it out.
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I guess like listening to all that too, if the Browns do have a better season than people think, and it's largely due to the success and the next step that Shidorah takes into his development and all that kind of stuff.
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if the Browns aren't ready to come out and say like, oh, this is our long term.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It's only been two years.
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We still have two more years of his fifth brown rookie contract.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the rush?
42:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I know everybody.
42:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We gotta find the franchise guy.
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: We gotta get him in here.
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: If he's good enough to win new games right now and there's no like obvious clear upgrade answer next year to keep rolling with him because we took Baker Mayfield number one over on thought that's our guy he's here long term that didn't work out so you just never know how these things are going to play out I just don't understand rush to move past him when
42:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like his contract's expiring like the Shons is.
42:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the rush to move past him because narrative street and people just generally don't want to like him.
43:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's how can we marginalize, how can we shove him to the side?
43:04
[SPEAKER_03]: How can we talk about anybody else being an option outside of shooter Sanders?
43:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not saying that like everybody has to like the person and love, you know, how he carries himself the things that he says and stuff like that.
43:18
[SPEAKER_03]: You can dislike the way that he carries himself at a podium of the answers that he gives.
43:22
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't push back on this kid and saying that he is a bad human though.
43:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he works hard.
43:28
[SPEAKER_03]: The things that he's done, he's earned a lot of, I mean, he's earned it.
43:36
[SPEAKER_03]: he has.
43:37
[SPEAKER_03]: He is an NFL quarterback and he's earned that.
43:41
[SPEAKER_03]: He's, you don't see him getting into trouble all field like he's not out there doing all this idiot, idiot, idiotic stuff like freaking Rishi Rice and who have you and stuff or in the news for domestic violence or anything of that nature.
43:54
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like,
43:55
[SPEAKER_03]: you got a problem with the kid because you got a problem with either him or his dad or both of them or you just got a bone to pick with the fact that you just want to hate him because whoa it's fun to hate on people in the year 2026.
44:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So I agree that people are so quick to dismiss and move past him and I'm like
44:16
[SPEAKER_03]: But what if you already got the franchise guy on your depth chart?
44:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And he is on a worky deal for this year and two more years past that and he can be that leader.
44:29
[SPEAKER_03]: What if what if that's the case?
44:32
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we've been dreaming for.
44:34
[SPEAKER_00]: that's exactly it's 99 that's what we've all wanted and we've all been so quick to jump on that where we're we are literally rotating three four quarterbacks a year.
44:44
[SPEAKER_00]: This is normal normal business out here since 1999.
44:49
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what we do.
44:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Bring three quarterbacks in and then we'll bring three more in next year and it's just that is like you said that's the answer.
44:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Find your franchise guy.
45:02
[SPEAKER_03]: But the other thing about this and I'm very curious of y'all's take on it, too, is because y'all, I mean, obviously, are tied in with the fan base, y'all are fans of the team and stuff.
45:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So you have a much better read on this situation, too.
45:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it just like, is this also just another situation, too, of like,
45:22
[SPEAKER_03]: We just got, like, we just have to hate what we have and want something else, like it's never good enough because I felt like the Cleveland Browns, like fan base love baker and then hated baker.
45:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Like while he was there, regardless of he's playing through injuries, he shouldn't even have been out there on the field, and he's putting his body on the line for the team.
45:44
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't win, and it's like he goes somewhere else, and he has success in Tampa Bay, and it's like, oh crap, now I wish we had Baker now.
45:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, but when you had him, you hated the guy.
45:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like, what do you want?
45:57
[SPEAKER_03]: You had him, you didn't like him, you disrespected him, and he goes somewhere else, and he has success, and he rebounds in his career,
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, we wish we had Baker.
46:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.
46:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're mad.
46:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We're mad that he's being successful.
46:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
46:12
[SPEAKER_03]: You're like the fan base was bad, but it's like when you had the guy, you hated him.
46:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what do you, what do you want?
46:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You just want to be the head?
46:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know.
46:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the end, like, am I all face here?
46:24
[SPEAKER_00]: no so no you're you're not this is this is basically what it is the Baker thing to which is interesting and I don't know how everybody feels about this nationally but like from Cleveland fan base he needed to grow up a little bit I think while he was in Cleveland and he went through a lot of crap like I think Kim going to Carolina Rams everything I'm
46:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy for the guy like I'm not a guy that's gonna go in bash baker.
46:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also not a baker bro I'm a Cleveland Browns fan so like my thing is I'm like hey good for him I hope and success and all that if we're playing him.
46:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope we you know absolutely shit on him, but like
47:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not actively like waking up Sunday mornings and going, hey, screw Baker may feel that guy.
47:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He, he, he get us a raw deal, you know, asking for a trade when we were getting a new quarterback.
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Now at the same time, like when we did the Deshawn Watson trade, I remember looking at my mom who was like a die hard Cleveland Browns fan being like,
47:20
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I don't like this at all, and I was like, this is the best quarterback that we've ever had.
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think this could be the future, and I have never, never been so absolutely missed on and just absolutely mind blowing how quick of a decline that was.
47:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But, no, this is normal.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just Cleveland fandom.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We rotate quarterbacks.
47:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We're never even when we think that we have something, it's almost like we self sabotage it anyway, and we just, we were excited for the next thing.
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I decided I don't understand it.
47:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes you just want to hug somebody and just say like give somebody a warm embrace and then slowly lean over and into their next to their ear and say, It's okay to be happy.
47:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is a space you can be happy.
48:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it's rough.
48:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It's uh, I mean, I've literally if you got on and got upset about the Browns right now I guarantee you somebody would be like, but what about the calves?
48:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They stink and they screwed it up No matter what like we would find something or the Indians or you know not looking great are the guardians You know and we will always find some you know depression and our fandom Just or they are they go to the fever.
48:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Kately Clark's overrated.
48:28
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you doing?
48:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
48:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we will we just you know it is part of our deal
48:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's see media in Cleveland doesn't help the situation.
48:38
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I just and probably agree with me.
48:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they feed on the negativity, obviously.
48:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a paper click kind of business anyhow.
48:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But the discourse comes from the quarterback stuff.
48:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're just, I think maybe a lot of it's there.
48:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So used to not having the quarterback.
48:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We have these quarterback discussions every year.
48:55
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we do if we don't have a quarterback discussion?
48:57
[SPEAKER_01]: What else we going to talk about, you know?
49:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so, okay, so one of our leading leading reporters in the media is Mary K. Kavit and she I call her the anybody but should door because well, she was also the anybody but Baker but anyway, go ahead.
49:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay.
49:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The like last year, I mean, this is during the season, when should doors plan, she was already on radio shows talking about, well, Browns need to use one of their high picks next year on a quarterback.
49:22
[SPEAKER_01]: like can we just see what this guy can finish doing here and then during the pre-draft process she wanted Tyson's and it's six and she's telling everybody hey Dillon Gabriel is going to be right in this quarterback mix with everybody else and it's like can we just stop with all these other guys
49:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, be mindful of the content that you consume.
49:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Cleveland fans, it's all I can say.
49:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take the high road with a bit of that.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I'll say.
49:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand the business.
49:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a business, you know, but it's not good.
49:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's bad, you know, it's bad business.
49:55
[SPEAKER_03]: You have the leeway and the freedom to conduct yourself, how you see fit with players and around that.
50:02
[SPEAKER_03]: You can also fashion stories.
50:05
[SPEAKER_03]: that are actually correct and not just click hungry and not just BS for the sake of BS.
50:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Well done.
50:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Well done, brother.
50:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:17
[SPEAKER_01]: What I tell you guys, an amazing conversation we're having here with Derek Brown from Fancy Pros.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you guys go check him out, follow him on social media, see the work that he's doing over at fantasypros.com and betting pros and all the work that he is putting into the industry.
50:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he this is a very well respected member of that fantasy industry, but
50:40
[SPEAKER_01]: really just football knowledge in general because again we and we kind of talk about this on the next episode you guys will see I think but if you can evaluate players for fantasy football purposes well you know fantasy football is a direct reflection of what you're doing on an NFL field so all correlates at all connects it's all works together but we'll dive into
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Derek's opinions on Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston.
51:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Joe Royer, these players in the next episode, we're really excited to bring you guys that content again.
51:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to join the dogs.com.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Get in.
51:17
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51:20
[SPEAKER_01]: June 1st is when the registration opens, so don't miss that.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We got a dog pack discord live episode.
51:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We're...
51:26
[SPEAKER_01]: tentatively planning for some time this weekend.
51:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to be a part of that, if you want to come on the show, ask us questions, get your thoughts on opinions on the show and all that.
51:35
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51:35
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51:41
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51:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you very much to everybody who's already in the dog pack and everybody who is even considering joining to see what it's all about.
51:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We appreciate you guys.
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we'll be back tomorrow with the next part of this conversation with Derek Brown so I see you guys tomorrow.
52:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go Brown.
52:06
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52:25
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52:28
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52:32
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52:37
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