Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.232 ‘Invictus Games: Resilience & Camaraderie’ with Sam May, Gemma Barnes, Carla Bickerstaffe, Jenny Lane

Transcript

Ep.232 ‘Invictus Games: Resilience & Camaraderie’ with Sam May, Gemma Barnes, Carla Bickerstaffe, Jenny Lane · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
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back into soft tissue therapy.
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Music.
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And we're live. Hey everybody, welcome to episode 232 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast.
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My name is Matt Phillips, creativerunchecklive.com And as always,
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this episode is being recorded live at 8pm on a Tuesday evening on the Sports
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Therapy Association YouTube channel and Facebook page.
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This episode is part two of this month's focus on working with athletes with
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disabilities, and it's entitled Invictus Games, Resilience and Cameraderie.
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And very soon I shall be bringing up special guests Sam May and Gemma Barnes,
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both Team UK athletes recently returned from Invictus Games 2025.
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And with them will be sports therapist Carla Bickerstaff and massage therapist
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Jenny Lane, both of whom have experience of working with athletes with disabilities,
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with Jenny Lane recently returning from her position as soft tissue therapist
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for Team UK at this year's Invictus Games.
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If you recognise those names and you listened to last week's episode,
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that's because everybody who is appearing in this series was with me last week
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and that episode is still available on YouTube and all popular podcast apps.
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I was joined by, like I say, all the guests in this series and it's
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a superbly amazing honest and informative hour on some
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of the shared experiences as athletes with disabilities so
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if you haven't listened to that yet then make sure you do and
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if you'd like to join us for the recording of part three that's being recorded
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next wednesday not tuesday so make a little note in your diaries it's wednesday
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not tuesday march the 19th at eight o'clock i'm going to be joined in that episode
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by dan wheels metcalf who despite being less paralysed from the waist down after
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a motorcycle accident in 2014,
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has since achieved three scuba diving world records, and is currently preparing for the next one.
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With Dan is going to be Snickler Hunt, specialist in neurological vestibular
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and respiratory physiotherapy and only in physio care rehab, and also Dr.
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Catherine Dawson, who's consultant clinical neuropsychologist and director of Sphere Rehab.
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In part four being recorded Tuesday, back to Tuesday, March the 25th at eight
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o'clock, Carla and Jenny are going to return to accompany Rich Potter and Rich Davis.
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For those of you who aren't familiar with them, they're both armed forces veterans
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and single below-leg amputees who set world records at the end of last year
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on their limitless expedition conquering the Himalayas as the first ever amputees
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to achieve the half and full length of the snowman trek in Bhutan.
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The toughest trek in the world, with 11 mountain passes at altitudes of over 5,500 metres.
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So an absolutely fantastic, valuable month lined up, all with the goal of not
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only sharing information for therapists who are or want to work with athletes
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with disabilities, but also,
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as we've already heard, and I'm sure we're here tonight information that can
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play a hugely beneficial role in working with any athlete whatever
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their ability right then so just
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a welcome to people who have joined us live tonight tracy marsh
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is in the house this evening all if you listen to the podcast then
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you do want to join us live then the advantage is obviously you can ask our guests
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questions directly and when you do i can bring your
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questions and comments up onto the screen for example cecily hislop
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is here and says all right then my lovers and that probably that's
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a pretty good accent precisely i just came out no one that came out so
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there's an advantage joining us live we love to see you can mix network with
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other soft tissue therapists so if you have got the time and
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then yeah eight o'clock next wednesday normally tuesdays but
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next wednesday right then we're going to crack on this episode so if you joined
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live do feel free as always to ask questions as we start part two of this month's
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focus on working with athletes disabilities entitled invictus games resilience
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and camaraderie i shall now bring our guests up.
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Music.
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There you go. There's a voice there for you podcast listeners.
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Hi, Gemma. Hello. Good evening.
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And Carla. Hi. And Jenny. Hello.
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Excellent. Thanks for joining us again. I can't believe it's only been a week.
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I know I've already said this and sound like a broken record,
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but I don't know, maybe we've all got such busy weeks.
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But it was a week ago since you all joined us with the other guests.
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So thank you for returning. That's very kind of you.
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And yeah so this week is all about
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letting our listeners know about Invictus Games as well as all of
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your experiences as competitors and as therapists and
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showing some of that valuable information so I guess
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we should start really with with a little introduction for listeners
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who don't know what the Invictus Games is and maybe
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a little bit of a history on it so I don't know who
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the historian is here who'd like to introduce us
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to a little bit of where it all came for carly you know
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when you put your finger over your mouth the teacher sees you do that at school
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they're going to ask you to answer the question i don't know a
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lot about it i do know i can tell you the first games were so
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the first games were 2014 in london and
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it was sort of i suppose a
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way of helping wounded sick
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and injured service personnel and veterans find a
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way back into sort of for
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want of a better word sort of their normal lives after
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being discharged from the service from the armed forces
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and using it as a recovery tool and then
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it sort of had multiple iterations over
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the years different venues around the world different sports have.
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Been incorporated but I think the fundamental like
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core values have always been the same it's about a recovery journey for
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those personnel to help them either
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continue serving be it in a different capacity or sort of transition into civilian
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life really and what sport can do for them to help them with that if anybody
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would disagree you can do it.
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Sam and Gemma is that a fair summary in your experience as competitors Yeah,
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I think that's a great summary.
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I think it was Prince Harry's baby, really, after he went and saw the Warrior
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Games in America and saw how positive it was for the veterans over there,
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and then wanted to bring it to a wider audience.
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And as Carla said, it's all about recovery for wounded, injured,
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sick veterans and current service people.
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And Gemma anything you'd like to add to that yeah I
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think it's just important to point out that you don't have to have been an athlete prior
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to taking part in the Invitus Games I think
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a lot of people sometimes assume that you have to have been very
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high level sport before you come swimming in Invitus but
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that's not the case at all sport is used as a vehicle for recovery so you don't
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have to have tried any of these sports before you can try it first time here
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and you know that's what they use to help you recover so it really is harnessing
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the power of sport and irrespective of your ability or your previous background
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or your previous exposure to this sport.
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I'm interested in is it
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something which obviously everybody the situation and
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the experience for any person that gets disabled is going to be different but
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for somebody who's in the armed forces is it something which people are already
7:17
aware of and think somewhere along the line that's something I'm going to turn
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to or does it often take a while before people in that situation even consider
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going to the Invictus Games?
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I think it's probably changed recently because it used
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to be very much that the Invictus Games was for veterans and
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veterans of military service across all the different services but more recently
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it's being sponsored by the Royal British Legion and the MOG so there's an increased
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number of serving personnel who can also now take part so it was I can't remember
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the exact number Sam you'll have to remind me but I think it was 27 or 28.
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27 personnel yeah out of the team of 60 so that was definitely the highest number
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of serving personnel you've ever had within the team so it's definitely opened
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up to more people and I think,
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previously it was more word of mouth whereas now I think there's more active
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participation from people who are still serving, I guess the word is going to
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get out a bit quicker within those realms, I think.
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Yeah, I think for lots of us, we were signposted to it from the Baselbach Centre,
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which is like a recovery centre at the Royal British Legion run.
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But I think, as Gemma said, there's now currently lots more serving who've done
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it. So maybe the word will get out a little bit quicker.
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I sort of happened upon it by accident, but we'll see how it evolves,
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especially with it coming back to Birmingham next year.
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I think awareness will be higher than it has been.
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Is that a definite now? Yeah, 2027 Birmingham Oh sweet, nice,
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okay that's good news Sam,
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can I just ask a quick question Sam and Gemma, do you know whether all of the
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serving personnel were being discharged, going through the medical discharge
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route or were some of them currently serving and continuing to serve?
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Yeah, it's different for lots of people. So some people are in the process.
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So like for me, I'm in the process and I don't know which way it's going to go.
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Some people know they're on their way out and some people know they're staying
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in, but most of them with kind of medical limitations on how they can deploy.
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So it's the right mix of us.
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And when you look at that across the bigger spectrum you're looking at.
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Veterans who were discharged 10-15 years ago you
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know fresh veterans in the last five years people come out
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during the process and like Sam said people who are
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about to come out and then who might be you're unknown
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and staying in so you've got such a vast spectrum of people
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you know a range of disabilities and functions and
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medical serving statuses so it's quite
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a lot to manage for the uh for the support stuff how
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much of a service does it provide in the rehabilitation of
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people is it something that I presume not everybody can do
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is in the state of mind of even considering was it
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something that they're trying to encourage that most people consider as
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part of their recovery process at some point so from
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my experience I think it's not for everyone
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but there is a huge number of people who can benefit from
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it and it's as Gemma said rightly it's not
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just people who would previously identify themselves as athletes sport is
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for everyone and it's very good at helping the people
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who are kind of in the right place to be helped by it but there
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are some people who it wouldn't be the right thing for
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them and there are lots of other recovery programs for them so
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you know through art or comedy or more traditional
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talking therapies there's lots of different avenues out there and it's
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not being pushed upon people as something you must try people are so they're
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still serving and you're winded and you're sick for long enough you are encouraged
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to go to the battle back courses and i think that will probably highlight to
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you whether or not it would be something you would enjoy that's really a very
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interesting answer because i remember the riches.
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Kind of saying that for them
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personally it's only saying for everybody it was it was not being
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able to serve their country anymore that was kind of very much their identity
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and the games gave them a chance to suddenly wear the flag again
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and restore an identity that they felt been taken away from them but
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i guess that's not going to you can't that's not paid the
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same brush on everybody but that does form quite an important part for some
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people does it if you've been in the forces being able to wear that flag again
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is that kind of a common theme i think so yeah absolutely because i think when
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you when you take that decision to join the military it's a big decision whether you fully appreciate.
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But you an allegiance to the other thing.
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Is that just me losing sound a little bit? No, you're a robot.
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Yeah, you know, monarchy and this and,
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sorry Gemma we're not hearing some of what you're saying I'm
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not sure whether it's at your end or not I might ask you I might kick you out
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basically in short words and then have you joined again I couldn't think of
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a nice way of putting it no I just no I didn't want to miss anything you were
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saying now you've gone now you've stopped talking it's all beautiful again but it was going with it.
12:17
For people you said the last 20 seconds it's about it was about yeah yeah sorry,
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yeah I was just saying it's a lot of people it's really important
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when we join up because we swear to the queen
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as was or the king and I think no matter
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what arm you're in there's a real strong degree of and service
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to country and service to self so I think that
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that degree of service it never quite leaves you and service
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to country pride in your country pride in wanting to defend
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and represent your country I don't think that ever leaves you so
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when you leave the military that part of
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you doesn't die it just sits there waiting to
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be used again and I think Invictus for me particularly it
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really opened up that opportunity for me to be part of Teen UK represent the
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UK you know that sense of pride and that sense of national pride as well which
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I think is always really strong in the military so yeah for me it really opened
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up the opportunity to represent the country again and I really felt that deeply
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for me that was a really that was a really important thing to do.
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Similar for you Sam or? Yeah I mean so
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I'm still serving so I've not kind of been out of
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it in the same way that Gemma's been but definitely
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yeah it's good to feel like you're achieving something
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again you're contributing you're representing and lots
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of it as well as kind of networking's maybe the wrong word but
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it's kind of like political relations you're
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going and meeting other allies who you're going
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to fight alongside and so actually just being
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back in that environment again was pretty special very interesting thank you
13:49
carla and jenny last week you had not a lot to say which i know both of you
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is is not because of you it's because of me it was me not you because you've
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got loads to say but maybe now's a great time to to ask or Although,
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no, it's not a great question for you because you talked about this off air.
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But how did you guys get to work for the Enuxer's Games?
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How did that all come about? Because maybe there's people listening who are
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thinking, this sounds amazing.
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I'm hoping there are people thinking, I want to get involved in this.
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It sounds like it could be really interesting and make good use of my skills.
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But it's not that easy, is it?
14:19
Not really, if I'm being honest. That's fine. So we...
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Well, I was invited to apply to be part of the team.
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And when I did my first cycle for Dusseldorf, which was for the games that were in 2023.
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So the application process for that actually started in 2022.
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So how were you invited then? Who invited you? So, well, I'm getting to that
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point. I got an invite from... Patience, sit in your hands.
14:49
I was invited by Swim England to apply for a swimming coach's role.
14:55
And then when I had the application form to put the application in because I
15:01
am a qualified coach as well I went no I don't want to do that I want to do
15:05
medical and I switched my application.
15:09
Into the medical side so I did swindle it a little bit but I had been I had
15:15
been invited to apply in the first
15:17
sense and then I had to go through a selection process the same as the
15:21
competitors did so I had to go
15:24
to the selection camps and I was kind of
15:27
observed there were competitors from
15:30
previous games that were kind of sent as almost plants
15:34
to come and see me to then feed back on how
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I treated them and how I
15:40
interacted with them and things like that um and then
15:43
I had sort of
15:46
was given feedback on that and then was selected for the team off the
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back of that and then for Canada
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it was the same sort of we I
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was invited to apply this time purely as medical based off
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of the reputation I built on the first cycle and we still had to go through
16:03
an application process we had to apply we had to be interviewed for the role
16:07
because there was only a set number of places so we had our interviews and then
16:13
what offered positions off the back of that.
16:17
So it was, yeah, it wasn't an easy, it's something that I've wanted to do for years.
16:23
And every time I tried to get in from its inception, so like from sort of 2014
16:28
onwards, I was always kind of.
16:32
You could never sort of find the right door to knock on, if that makes sense.
16:36
And it was always like you need to go and build your reputation.
16:39
You need to go and do things out there.
16:41
You need to go and sort of work on building your
16:44
profile as a person and as a therapist because
16:47
you are an unknown entity and you're going
16:50
into work with quite a
16:53
vulnerable group of people who are going
16:57
to put a lot of trust into you and you
17:01
need some credibility with that I think for
17:04
you to be able to go in and then come to you because you you
17:07
don't know anybody you're all thrown into this situation together
17:10
and the competitors can either choose to engage
17:13
with you or not and if you've not got
17:16
that sort of reputation or
17:20
that demeanor I think it puts people off
17:23
and some some competitors still aren't fully
17:26
ready to work with you I think if they don't quite understand your
17:29
role or things like that and it's it's I
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think for me sort of I'm not
17:36
naive in that I don't know the different branches of
17:39
the military or things like that but I don't
17:42
know particularly the hierarchy so I'm very much out
17:46
of it and if somebody says to me oh I
17:49
drove tanks for a living I'm like that's brilliant that's great I love it
17:52
like I'm not I'm not necessarily going
17:55
to ask and pry into what it is that they do if they.
17:58
Want to disclose that to me then great we'll have
18:01
that conversation but I want them to feel safe when
18:04
they come for a treatment with me that I'm not going to ask triggering questions
18:07
or things like that so it's kind of it's a very sort of unique situation to
18:15
be in and it's a very privileged one I think for us as therapists to be able
18:19
to work in that environment and with that group of people,
18:22
because it takes a lot for everybody to be in that situation and sort of work together effectively.
18:30
Jenny, I'm going to ask you for this, basically whether you lied yourself in
18:33
as well, but before we do that, I mean, Sam and Gemma, is that interesting to
18:38
hear what the selection process was like?
18:40
And for Carla, does that resonate, the things which they were looking out for
18:44
and trying to make sure they find the best therapist possible?
18:47
Yeah, it's really interesting because actually, obviously, as competitors,
18:49
we don't really know what the process is.
18:51
These wonderful people turn up at camps and some of them keep coming to camps
18:54
and some of them don't keep coming to camps. Yeah, OK.
18:57
It's sort of like bimbling through because everyone's so focused on themselves, really.
19:01
So it's really interesting to hear how they got to where they are.
19:04
And as Richard said in the comments, they're both absolute assets to the Invictus programme.
19:08
So we're lucky to have them both. They're both fabulous.
19:12
Very nice to hear. Yes. Thanks, Rich, for joining us. which says Carl and Jenny
19:15
are both major assets to the Invictus community exclamation mark very nice for
19:19
you Rich Potter and Gemma you were nodding away I mean obviously for you Gemma you're,
19:23
physiotherapist so a lot of the things you're hearing is you're
19:25
thinking yes so it should be that sort of stuff so obviously it resonates with
19:28
you a lot as well yeah absolutely I mean
19:31
it's great to hear that they go through this process more than anything
19:34
I think it's personality driven a lot of the time it's
19:37
a difficult environment that you're coming into as a
19:40
medical professional of and I see that because
19:43
I was there as a competitor but you never quite take
19:46
off your medical hat really do you and there were ties when I'd
19:49
hear people you know talking about their injuries or talk about their
19:51
you know disabilities and they got into a really negative spiral and I would
19:56
try and help them as much as I could but when you know they're going to see
19:59
really good clinicians you feel really comfortable saying go and speak to the
20:03
soft tissue guys or go and speak to the medical team because they're such great
20:08
people but they were so approachable and like Carla says,
20:11
she knows the basic layer of the military, but it's good that you don't know
20:14
all the intricacies and all the rank structures and that, because we want to
20:18
be there being treated as.
20:21
You know to people people doing what we
20:23
can doing sport you know giving it a go good
20:27
days bad days and everything in between you don't necessarily want to
20:30
be there as an ex-officer or as an ex-courts or
20:33
as a current you know colonel or a current this
20:35
you just want to be seen as a person
20:38
and sometimes the the military you know sees you
20:41
with a number or a rank or a trade and the
20:45
joy of the medical team here was that everyone was
20:47
just treated and seen as a person and a human being
20:50
and I think you know you brought up really good rapport and relationships
20:53
with them as a result because you could talk about anything and there was
20:56
no judgment and I think whoever decided to
20:59
bring all of you in as a medical team was genius because
21:02
you all worked really well together you had a really lovely balance male
21:06
and female you know there was always somebody
21:09
you could go to if you were happy or sad or feeling one way or
21:11
feeling another and I think to get that from the medical team is
21:14
incredible you know you're really confident you're really good at your job but
21:17
you're also really loving people who could who could relate to the whole spectrum
21:21
of people so you know thank you from all the team because I think we all really
21:25
felt that and we all possibly didn't mention it as much as we should have done
21:30
because we were normally crying or in pain and or.
21:37
Yeah but actually I think the medical team was such a great success because
21:41
you taught people things and you taught people things they didn't even know
21:44
you could do and I think yeah we were really lucky to have you guys.
21:48
It's so interesting I mean we'll touch later on on all the qualities you're
21:53
talking about they have are qualities that anybody in healthcare is supposed
21:56
to have whether you're a GP or anybody having that empathy that time to listen
22:00
the body language that you know the teaching people to individuals it's all
22:04
supposed to be what healthcare is but but first Jenny, yeah.
22:07
So Jenny, for you, selection process similar?
22:11
Yeah. So Carla very kindly introduced me into the selection process.
22:18
It was interesting the way that they were going to go about it.
22:22
Obviously, the military have physios that they use every day through their basic
22:29
training all the way through right up to the time that they finish.
22:32
And they didn't always come to us having had a great experience.
22:39
Now, whether that was not from the treatment point of view, but it could have
22:43
been that they didn't really want to be discharged. They didn't really want to leave the military.
22:48
And that process sometimes can be a bit bumpy. It's just the natural way of it, I think.
22:55
And so on occasion, I think that.
22:59
Some of the competitors found it difficult to relate to some of the military
23:03
physios who were there for lots of different reasons.
23:07
And so actually having Carla and I there who weren't military at all,
23:10
I think was a really nice balance because they knew that we had no preconceived
23:15
ideas of who they were, what they'd done or what was going on with them really.
23:21
So I think, I think that balance was really nice. I think it
23:24
was really important to have that balance with us alongside
23:27
it as well and I think quite rightly as
23:30
Gemma and Carla and Sam have said that the way
23:33
that they put together the team was quite interesting and that they really
23:36
pulled on skills that each of us had some very specific
23:39
skill sets that we brought into the team as
23:42
a whole so if somebody came up
23:44
to either Carla or I and really
23:47
the person they needed to see was another one
23:50
of the physios who was particularly good with spinal manipulations
23:54
or there was somebody else who was particularly good with
23:57
the categorization so it might have been that that they needed to be recategorized
24:01
or or you know just talk to somebody about their categorization we all had our
24:07
place with within the team itself so I think that's why it bonded quite so well
24:12
I think and worked worked well.
24:15
Very interesting so what was so yeah multi-disciplinary carriers what was your
24:20
experience before you started then how much did you know going in?
24:24
About about Invictus or? About generally working with this population,
24:29
about working on the spot, having to make decisions.
24:32
I mean, we're talking a little bit about how much time you did have and whether
24:35
it was kind of more pitch side rather than clinic and appointments,
24:37
but what was your experience going in and how much did that serve you?
24:42
Sorry, sorry, Matt. Going into the- Invictus Games, yeah.
24:47
About the competitors that we were seeing? Yeah, about the work you're going to have to be doing.
24:52
I had a little bit of an insight into working with military personnel because
24:57
my husband's in military.
24:58
So I had set up a clinic on the married path, which means that I was seeing
25:05
a lot of military personnel already.
25:07
So quite often they're sportsmen, a lot of them are.
25:11
So they came to me with running injuries or things that they didn't necessarily
25:16
want the military to know about.
25:17
So I kind of had a little bit of an idea of the type of things that I was going
25:23
to be dealing with and the complexities in some cases.
25:28
But if I'm totally honest, certainly this time round, I think that I worked
25:35
with a lot more complexity than I'd ever thought that I would work with.
25:42
And that was really hard. I'm not going to lie.
25:45
That was it was really hard because you really had to to
25:50
think long and hard about how you were going to approach particular
25:53
clients and clients competitors and how you you would deal with it and quite
25:59
often we worked as a disciplinary team so we'd all we'd all come together as
26:03
a multidisciplinary team and kind of say how can we help this person who's who's
26:08
best suited and sometimes.
26:11
It was more hands-off work that was needed with them.
26:15
And particularly because a lot of them needed help behind the scenes and not
26:20
just at the particular time that we're looking at.
26:22
So some of the guys with severe scarring really needed to be doing some of their
26:26
own scar work treatment because they would only see us once a month.
26:30
So there's lots of things that we kind of really needed to...
26:33
And I think we could still do better.
26:34
I think we could still work on that process on the back of this Games. But yeah, so it was...
26:41
It wasn't straightforward. It wasn't straightforward. And I think there were
26:45
times when you talk to the competitors and they told you the injuries that they had.
26:51
And it was overwhelming from an emotional point of view, because you're looking
26:55
at a body that has been, some of the injuries are really quite traumatic.
27:01
And so, and you have empathy for that. It's, you know, we're in a job,
27:04
we're empathetic beings and it's, it's difficult.
27:08
I mean obviously you're a professional and you don't show it at the time but,
27:11
equally you come away sometimes and feel really sad that anybody has to go through
27:17
those injuries I think is probably the the right phrase.
27:21
I mean that was wonderful yeah such an insight any reflections on what Jenny's
27:25
just said because there's so much there to unpack.
27:27
Gemma you were nodding away at some point where she mentioned the hands-off work.
27:31
Yeah absolutely I mean we alluded to it
27:34
before the the team was so diverse in terms
27:37
of a mix of mental health injuries physical
27:40
injuries mixture of complex mental health
27:44
and physical chronic injuries more acute injuries I mean you literally had everything
27:48
from you know 25 year old injuries right through to fresh injuries affectations
27:54
everything so I think I can definitely appreciate that it was complex to treat
28:00
a lot of that and I think there was an awful lot of.
28:02
Not necessarily flags, but there were definitely some pointers for some people
28:06
where they needed signposting to mental health issues or programmes that they
28:11
could get themselves into, because this might have been the first time that
28:14
they'd ever put their toe in that water and asked for help in any way.
28:17
And I think it's testament to how well you guys coped with it.
28:21
That if somebody who has been hiding and has been pretending to be fine,
28:25
and then during this process has felt safe enough to talk to
28:28
you about it it's you feel almost
28:31
lucky as a practitioner that they opened up to you but then
28:34
almost really you feel the weight of that
28:37
and you want to signpost correctly to the right place but
28:40
then you know where do they live they could be anywhere in the country they could
28:43
be still serving they could be out they could be there's so
28:45
many different charities so I think trying to navigate that as a therapist sometimes
28:49
you end up being a hands-on therapist and a
28:51
hands-off therapist and I think that's just as important sometimes because
28:54
somebody's head isn't in the right place their body's not going
28:57
to be in the right place and you can treat you know a
29:00
certain muscle you can strengthen it or you can you know do
29:03
as much soft tissue release as you want but if you're not dealing with that mental
29:06
resilience and that mental strength at the same time and I
29:09
think as a practitioner people do talk to you because you've
29:11
got your hands on them so teeth they they tell you more
29:15
and I think it's a double-edged sword sometimes it's great that
29:17
people feel comfortable to tell you that but then you have a responsibility you
29:21
know what do you do with that information how do you best help them and
29:24
sign face them and I think given the diversity of
29:27
the team you know all credit but it just reminds us that it's never just one
29:31
or the other it's never just physical or emotional or mental health we're such
29:35
complex beings so yeah I think it's um I think you guys did absolutely brilliantly
29:41
because there was a difficult it wasn't a difficult team but there was a lot
29:44
of issues expecting the team.
29:48
Amazing. Sam, as an RAF doctor, Sam, how much of this already made sense to
29:54
you and you were aware of and you kind of weren't surprised at?
29:58
Or when you saw the team working there during the games, were you kind of surprised
30:03
what the services offered or what was needed? Yeah.
30:07
No, but I think so. No, I wasn't surprised, but I think that comes more from
30:11
having been an athlete previously and been lucky enough to work with soft tissue
30:16
people and sports therapists and physiotherapists and sports psychologists.
30:20
And I was very lucky in my previous kind of athlete life.
30:23
People often assume that as doctors, we know all about injuries.
30:27
And actually, you know, I can do broken bones and dislocated ankles,
30:31
but muscle sprains and things are not my bag.
30:35
Like if it's not going
30:38
to kill you in any often you know it's not
30:41
our priority so people assume that doctors know lots of this
30:44
stuff and we really don't so having the multidisciplinary
30:47
team where people are genuinely experts in that
30:51
bit of the body and rehab is
30:55
excellent and you know we had a nurse
30:58
as well on the team on the medical team to look
31:01
out for kind of the more medical issues so
31:04
I think they did a really good job providing that
31:07
MDT and you know you've got the physios you can do diagnosing supporting it
31:10
by the soft tissue therapists and masseuses supported by the nurse so I thought
31:16
they did a really great job and it was good to see that they had thought of
31:19
it and covered that because sometimes if you just I love doctors they're great
31:23
but we have our limitations.
31:25
And you need people who are actually experts in kind of the hands-on stuff.
31:29
But that makes perfect sense you can't be that's why
31:32
multi-participating care is so important a patient center focus because
31:35
you wouldn't i don't think
31:38
you could be an amazing doctor if you also had all
31:41
of the stuff that's going on with amazing hands-on practitioner you just wouldn't be
31:44
able to make those decisions would you it's just too much for anyone
31:47
you shouldn't be expected to you know and do but i'm
31:50
interested with expertise because carla and jenny here's a question for you
31:53
he said rubbing his knees thinking he's gonna give him
31:56
a question that's too tricky but what are your
31:59
expertise we often talk about hands-on therapists yeah
32:03
what would you say your expert it's difficult you have to blow your own
32:06
trumpet but what what do you think your expertise are
32:09
if you had to write them on a cv because you're not going to say
32:11
oh i do a great pnf i do a great massage i'm i can back
32:14
massage absolutely amazing what do you think your skills or
32:18
things maybe attributes which maybe you took for granted but
32:21
you realize you have actually got are that make you so effective as part of
32:25
the team 50 questions hiding in the background not wanting to be a hero not
32:32
wanting to be a surgeon gloves mask i hate questions like this and people ask
32:38
them you ask them all the time.
32:42
I can list your qualities if you want. That makes me feel more comfortable.
32:45
I'm quite happy. Someone else can do it for me. Like, I hate stuff like that.
32:49
Whenever anybody says to me, you know, when they go, oh, use three words to describe yourself.
32:53
I'm like. Oh, tell you what. Okay. Here, I'll make it easier.
32:55
Jenny, what's amazing about Karla? Say her skills though.
33:00
And then get ready, Karla, because you're going to have the same question.
33:03
Don't ask me. I don't know.
33:05
Where do you think she excels as a, as a somebody who's going to strive?
33:08
And I mean, you've been commended so much by everybody. what do you think the
33:11
skills are of Carla as opposed to a physio or the surgeon or the doctor or somebody?
33:18
I mean, Carla's a great listener.
33:23
She's also got a real good understanding mental health side of things.
33:27
And she is a really good professional. I know that sounds ridiculous,
33:30
but she's super on all of her CPD.
33:33
And she's really aware of how to
33:36
combine all of her treatments to make it really effective
33:40
you know and I think I think that's
33:43
probably Carla's really best trait is that her
33:46
treatments are just super effective super effective which is a bit of a cop-out
33:51
isn't it but but I think you think because of the listening as the listening
33:55
come first and that fuels the treatment yeah absolutely absolutely and it's
34:00
just an understanding of all of it I I think it's an understanding of how to speak to somebody,
34:06
how to not assume anything,
34:09
how to empathise with them in a correct, appropriate kind of manner.
34:14
And she's not, she doesn't flap on the outside.
34:19
It's important, very important. A beautiful swan on your webcam with legs underneath going crazy. Yep.
34:27
That's so interesting because they're all skills you've listened,
34:30
like listening not assuming not judging the person treating these aren't skills
34:35
really that still sadly i don't know about on physiotherapy courses but having
34:39
spoken to people who teach in universities i don't think they're still very
34:42
advanced in teaching these skills it's more still you're the fixer you can do
34:46
this you can do this this is a knee this is a shoulder so,
34:49
it's not surprising that therapists out there won't have these because
34:52
they haven't been nurtured in their courses i sorry to
34:56
jump in that i don't i i have this you
34:59
know who you had the the the i word that you don't like last week i don't like
35:03
this when people come to me and be like i need to be fixed like you're not broken
35:08
like we might need to change something we might need to adapt something but
35:13
you are genuinely not broken it's just a different version of,
35:17
what you were before and i think
35:21
if i take anything back to my clinical practice from working with these guys
35:25
it's how to understand that much better and obviously before Invictus like I'd
35:31
done work in para swimming and and quite a lot of my background is in that and I think.
35:39
I now have a better outcome with my clinical patients
35:42
because of the fact that I've had
35:45
the chance to work with these guys and like learn how
35:48
to listen better and ask the right questions but
35:51
also not to tell people no you can't
35:54
do that unless it's obviously unsafe then I'm
35:56
going to be like no we can't do that but just how
36:00
to modify things so that
36:03
they can still do the sports that they want to do because at the end of the day that's
36:06
the one thing that might be getting them out of bed every day and to
36:09
take that away from somebody unnecessarily for
36:13
me I'm like I can't do that I can't have that like
36:16
responsibility like somebody else can do that but it's not gonna be me like
36:23
I'm not gonna pull the like the rug out from underneath somebody I want I want
36:27
I want to champion them into doing something that they love doing and find a way to help them do that,
36:34
whilst sitting in the background going, yeah, you did it.
36:38
That kind of thing. That's what we're there for at the end of the day. It's never about us.
36:44
It's about getting the outcome for the competitor or for the athlete.
36:50
That's why we're there. That's why we do our job that we do at any event.
36:54
We literally, like I say, we just hide in the background. We are there just
36:58
to keep everybody else going and keep everybody else doing what they love doing.
37:02
In the military we've got a phrase that med is an enabler and i think that is,
37:08
because she's in the background and i suppose to some extent you guys are in
37:11
the background but without you guys we wouldn't have got to we wouldn't be on
37:16
the stage or doing on the floor or doing whatever we were doing so you know
37:20
you guys were a huge enabler for all of us.
37:23
Absolutely. And I think you guys really helped us realise that we have different bodies now.
37:29
We don't have a broken body that doesn't work anymore. We just have a different
37:33
body to the one that perhaps we joined the military with.
37:35
And I think there were several times when you guys, particularly Jenny,
37:40
when we were working together, where I would say, oh, this isn't working very well. I don't know why.
37:45
And you say, oh, it's not actually your leg. We need to follow that fascial
37:49
strain and then go up and then, oh, look, you can't move your head to the right.
37:52
It's probably that you know when you just think my god the
37:55
way that you looked at everything so holistically and just
37:58
as a whole person I found really brilliant
38:01
and you just sort of showed us that actually you know
38:04
your body's just worked differently now you just need to be a bit more aware of
38:07
x y and z or just pay attention to this muscle
38:10
you know you just you highlighted things that we
38:13
might not have considered because we were focused in on our injury or
38:16
injuries or those areas in particular which you
38:19
know I'm a therapist actually better but when it's yourself oh
38:22
it all goes out the window you just forget everything is important when it
38:25
comes to yourself I find so for you to say oh yeah yes it's your leg that's
38:29
the problem but actually if you think about facial trains and things like that
38:32
you need to be looking up here and that's where this is and that's like and
38:35
you just showed me that it's just a different body and you need to treat it
38:39
a bit differently and you need to manage it a bit differently but we can still
38:42
get it to work I I mean, look what everybody achieved.
38:44
Look what the whole team achieved. You know, we did incredible things.
38:48
I mean, everybody on a victim does incredible things with the body that they've
38:50
got. But we were just so lucky to have you guys showing us what our different bodies could do.
38:57
And I think that's what's really empowering for me.
39:00
And as a therapist as well, I think that's what I want to take back out is that
39:03
you can do things in that body.
39:06
You just need to look at it as the body that it is, not the body that it was
39:09
or the body that you want it to be.
39:10
You know you can aspire to that but you might not always like be there or get
39:14
there and sometimes you need a healthy dose of realism and you know you guys
39:18
could do that as well in a very gentle way but yeah I think really that's that's
39:22
now I reflect on it that's a really big thing I think is work with the body
39:25
that you've got not the body that you used to have.
39:28
That's a really hard thing to do sometimes for some people though I think that's
39:32
and absolutely it totally agree
39:35
it's the body that you, it's your new body, the new you, the new you.
39:39
And that might still have some overlaps, the old you, but there might be things
39:43
that you need to, I think everybody hates on their injury. They hate that injury.
39:48
It's a case of trying to find a way to get them to be gentle with that thought
39:54
and not be aggressive with it, not fight that injury so much.
39:59
It's just being, And that again is sometimes a really difficult thing to try
40:06
to even untangle and pick in your brain sometimes too.
40:11
Amazing especially as you
40:14
say as you as the therapist are hearing these things getting to
40:17
stress yourself thinking how the hell am i supposed to do anything about
40:20
this this must be so horrible and you have to stay like carla says
40:23
like the swan and being able to be the swan that helps
40:26
the person in front of you kind of calm down as well ultimately rather
40:29
than saying oh my god they're panicking as well you know so
40:32
yeah so many traits there and again i hate to sound like a broken record
40:34
but so many traits that should be carrying across and
40:37
being done with any athlete who's who's injured who
40:40
can't do what they want to do or even somebody who's getting older and still
40:43
thinking they're going to do what they were doing when they were 20 you know
40:46
or or various different stages in their lives so
40:49
it's such common themes sometimes it's just the competitors highlight all of
40:55
that and intensify that in you you have it draws out more from you so I think
41:01
it just it hones the skills more because it's a bit more highlighted I think
41:05
because of the nature of the injuries.
41:08
I think this conversation helps us understand something that we picked up on
41:11
last week, where knowing that all of this is going on behind the scenes,
41:16
this rollercoaster of emotions and help and the highs and the lows.
41:21
That like you commented last week, it's not just about the medal.
41:24
It's about all of that journey, like Rich said, and having to stop and remember
41:29
this journey and not just doing it because you want to be on the podium or something.
41:32
So it's really interesting to hear it.
41:35
With regards to that, I think we had a question in, actually.
41:39
It was sent in by a colleague of yours, wasn't it, Sam? James Hollis.
41:44
And James Hollis, for people who aren't aware, competed in the 2012 London Paralympics
41:48
and 2022 Birmingham Commonwealth Games.
41:50
And also, as well as being a British Paralympic swimmer, he's also Invictus
41:53
swim coach. Is that correct? Yes, he's the assistant swim coach for the Invictus team.
41:58
Fantastic. Okay. And he was gracious enough to give a couple of questions.
42:02
I'm not sure we were trying to work out whether he was setting you up or not.
42:05
They were great questions, obviously. And the one maybe that I'll direct you
42:09
to, it kind of fits in now, was about, yeah, if you had to say,
42:15
well, direct it to the athletes, first of all. I'm feeling bad about calling
42:18
it athletes now. What should I call it?
42:19
Even the word competitor kind of winds me up a little bit because the idea is
42:22
it's not all about competing, is it?
42:24
I don't know what word to use, which I feel happy about myself,
42:26
but you're using competitor. So maybe I'll just use competitor.
42:29
Is that the best word? You're all competitors? That's what the whole process
42:32
refers to us as. Fine, you're competitors.
42:34
So yeah, what was the single most impactful moment of the Victor Games 2025?
42:40
You've had a little bit of time. Yeah, I've had a little bit of time.
42:44
I think so. For me, this is actually kind of a surprise and it was not what
42:47
I thought it would be going into it.
42:49
And Gemma will probably be surprised as well. I think for me,
42:52
it was doing the skeleton. Yeah, I know.
42:56
If you're listening to the podcast. Which is true. You're not telling the video.
43:02
Yeah, so I went into the, going into those games.
43:06
It was winter games. I've previously been offered the opportunity to do skeleton.
43:09
And I was like, absolutely not. These people are mad.
43:11
Why would I want to slide face first down an ice chute on a tea tray? Like, no.
43:16
And then we got offered to do it. And I was like, maybe. I
43:20
ended up somehow being the reserve for skeleton and kind of
43:23
was like oh you know I won't end up doing it I got told the night before that
43:27
I was doing it the next afternoon and I just the next day was busy and I didn't
43:32
really have time to panic and our coach was so lovely and was just like just
43:36
do the next step just do the next step just do the next step and I somehow found myself,
43:40
doing it and rocking it and
43:44
well you're not dying not dying
43:47
I was absolutely terrified of it and I think I don't know if anyone's been skydiving
43:52
it's probably a more common experience than doing skeleton that feeling when
43:54
you're sitting in a plane you're about to jump out the plane that's how it felt
43:57
at the top I was like is this really am I gonna regret this and I didn't tell
44:01
my mom I was doing it until after I'd done it because I was like it's just I can't handle.
44:07
So I think for me actually the biggest thing was being like no I can control
44:10
my emotions and I can do those really scary things and things that do risk injury
44:16
but hold it together and do it,
44:19
which is odd because going into it skeleton wasn't even one of my sports I haven't
44:22
trained for it I sort of rocked up and did it so it's weird that that is kind
44:26
of one of my biggest moments from the games I think it was Who does the other coaches?
44:35
That's a great answer. Yeah, it's a symbol for so much. And Gemma,
44:39
you seem very surprised at that.
44:41
I am surprised at that, yeah, because I was well up for doing Skeleton.
44:44
I couldn't wait. It was one of the things I was most excited about.
44:47
And Sam was my real sort of, yeah, that's lovely, but have you thought about X, Y, and Z?
44:52
And when you actually sit and think about it, it's an incredibly dangerous thing to do.
44:56
And, you know, we've had a bit of a laugh and a joke about it.
44:59
But actually, I think it was the best thing for Sam that it was very last minute
45:02
that she had a really busy day.
45:03
She didn't have time to think about it because, you know, like all good people,
45:06
we think about things and then we tend to think a bit more and a bit more.
45:09
And before you know it, you've overthought it. talk yourself out of doing something so
45:12
actually I think sometimes when you just have that opportunity to
45:15
do something you just do it sometimes there's some of the best moments
45:19
and you know there's great photos and video evidence of
45:22
Sam absolutely doing brilliantly so yeah
45:25
I really heard that I think Skeleton was brilliant and
45:28
such a good experience and yeah definitely one that you could I went into it
45:33
quite as doctors we see quite a biased view of life and I'd worked in rehab
45:36
at Stamford Hall which is like the military rehab centre and I'd seen some pretty
45:40
awful injuries from ice sports and I was like why would anyone do this but now I see,
45:45
now I see why doing it that was my thought with skiing again,
45:50
biased view of it I heard skiing and I immediately was like yep,
45:54
literally ACL, MCL knee injury,
45:57
no good comes from it so yeah.
46:00
Interesting games for all of us so Birmingham then, we're going to be looking
46:04
out for Samantha May in a new sport, are we?
46:08
Well, I don't think there's a skeleton in Birmingham, so I think we're leaving from that front.
46:13
No, this is true. Not particularly, not in Birmingham, no. Well,
46:16
then who knows with the weather at the moment. Gemma, what for you?
46:18
What was the most impactful moment of the Ewykter Games 2025?
46:22
For me, it was, I trained alongside the Team UK wheelchair curling team and
46:28
there was only four people that were selected for it, but we have a squad of
46:31
eight who train together regularly.
46:32
I didn't make the main team, but I stayed on the squad.
46:36
And then as a result, I was entered into the Unconquered. So it's the Unconquered
46:41
Failing Teams, which is there were two of us.
46:44
And we basically got put together in a team with people from other nations.
46:47
And we formed two teams of four people each from all different nations that were competing.
46:53
And then we just went out on the ice as a team and competed against the countries
46:57
who had entered the team.
46:59
Which was amazing and my team one our
47:02
estonian didn't turn up so we were down to three not four and
47:05
then we had a frenchman he didn't speak a word of english so
47:09
we had to use google translate while we were on the ice and a
47:12
lithuanian guy who was really enthusiastic but had never played
47:14
never curled before in his in his life so there
47:17
were three of us and it was a really interesting team and i
47:20
thought oh my gosh this is going to be horrendous we're going to be going to
47:22
be a laughing stock and there was part of me that just thought oh i don't want to
47:25
i don't want to go out onto the ice you know this is gonna be so embarrassing and
47:28
my coach came along elspeth she's so amazing she
47:31
came bounding over and said this is so exciting what a great
47:34
opportunity you know you can just between you go out
47:36
there just have fun and she absolutely reframed the way i thought about it because
47:41
i immediately thought oh my gosh we're going to be a laughing stock you know
47:43
we're not going to be able to do anything where people are going to laugh at
47:46
it it's going to be embarrassing it's going to be awful and she just absolutely
47:49
flipped it upside down and said what an amazing opportunity there's zero pressure
47:52
on you you can go and have fun you can just do the sport you enjoy So,
47:56
yes, you'll have to use Google Translate, but, you know, curling's fun.
47:59
Just have fun with it. Just go out and enjoy.
48:02
I thought, you know what? Yeah, let's do that. Let's just go out and have fun.
48:05
And, you know, we had the most fun. We really, really did. We won two out of
48:09
our three games, and we actually lost to Korea, who won the gold medal overall.
48:13
So I have no qualms about losing to Korea.
48:16
And, you know what? We had so much fun. It was the purest version of the sport
48:19
I'd ever played because, you know,
48:22
there was a lot of hand signals there was a lot of google translate there was
48:25
a lot of sort of pointing and nodding and smiling and
48:28
so much laughing so much laughter on that
48:31
ice and when we won two games the feeling
48:34
honestly i felt like we've won a gold medal especially our second match against
48:37
colombia what was our third and final match against colombia they were
48:40
really good and we were trying to play tactically
48:43
and you know we we were just giving it our
48:45
everything and it was so pure and we won and
48:48
honestly people thought that we'd won the gold medal for the whole thing
48:51
and we hadn't at all I think we came I think came eighth overall
48:54
but that was out of 20 so actually we really held our
48:57
own but the feeling of coming off that ice with
49:00
two other people that I'd only met a few hours earlier of feeling
49:03
that sense of such close teamwork of working
49:06
together of overcoming all those silly barriers around language and things like
49:11
that just for the sake of pure sport and pure fun we had so much fun with it
49:16
and I think that was my we call it a gold medal moment and some people like
49:20
that some people don't like don't like that so much but for me that.
49:24
Absolutely epitomizes it it sums it up it was a gold medal moment I was buzzing
49:27
I felt like I've won because we just had so much fun and we yes we won our match
49:33
we made friends with each other we
49:35
had a laugh and in that moment you
49:38
know when you think quite often that you know I could be really quite shy
49:40
and I tend to sort of hide away a little bit and I'm like oh no I don't
49:43
want to do that I just thought I need to do that more I need to
49:46
put myself out there more and do more things like that because the
49:49
fun that can result from it is way better than
49:52
the fear of the bad things that might happen so yeah
49:55
it was uh for me that was my absolute best moment
49:59
that's great sounds sounds amazing yeah fantastic carl and jenny is it must
50:07
be interesting hearing what sam and jen were giving as their best moments and
50:11
that probably probably doesn't surprise you to other people listening I think
50:14
it's a wonderful insight into what Invictus Games is all about and,
50:18
you know, what is to be taken away from it.
50:20
But for you and for Carl and Jenny, I guess it's lovely to hear that.
50:24
And it makes perfect sense, isn't it? The camaraderie and the fun and the smiles
50:28
and the overcoming the fears and having to just put faith in yourself again.
50:32
Can't just nod at me. That would be terrible.
50:38
I mean, obviously this year I worked with the team right up until they went
50:44
out to Canada and unfortunately Derek didn't go with them.
50:48
But if I think back to Dusseldorf, you have a very similar sort of thing.
50:54
I remember the very first day was we had athletics going on and we had powerlifting
51:00
going on at the same time.
51:02
And the competitions were happening, but they were also streaming them on the tellies.
51:07
So there were, we had athletes in the powerlifting that were cheering on the
51:12
athletics athletes at the same.
51:15
They can't hear them. they're outside just watching it
51:18
on the telly but it was so lovely to see those relationships
51:21
that people had built and the support that they had for each other
51:24
and yes they were there to
51:27
sort of compete for themselves but actually it was
51:31
more important that they were there for each other and that really
51:33
comes across and that's really I think
51:37
what makes this sort of games totally
51:40
unique and it's so there's nothing else like it like really anywhere other than
51:48
things like warrior games in the states which i don't really know that much
51:53
about so i couldn't really comment to be fair but when you look at it comparatively
51:57
to everything else that we have.
52:00
It's it's the only thing like it there's not there's nothing else like this out there,
52:05
it's very special great and jenny for you what you were actually there this
52:10
year so So for you, is there a particular moment that you're going to remember,
52:14
the most impactful moment for you, Victor Gaines 2025?
52:17
The most impactful moment for me, like Carla said, it wasn't really about me.
52:23
I think the thing that I took away from each and every person was their special
52:29
moment and having the honour of sharing it with them, really,
52:33
and seeing their progress and seeing how, you know, at the very beginning when
52:38
you see them coming in and doing all the training,
52:40
you kind of think, wow, this is going to have to go somewhere at the end of
52:44
the, it's a bit like starting, you know, you're running training for a marathon.
52:48
You never believe that you're going to get to that end, that end line.
52:52
And I guess it's seeing them develop and move through.
52:55
So I know that's a bit of a cop-out, but like Carla says, it's not about us.
53:00
It's much more about seeing the joy on people's faces and seeing it work and
53:05
seeing it being such an amazing, as Carla said, amazing and unique experience.
53:10
Well answered. Yeah, I'm not surprised.
53:13
Brilliant. Well, look, somehow it's 8.59. We had, I mean, we should really have
53:20
respect for the other question.
53:23
We should get the other question in here, which is, and it's quite a nice way
53:26
to end actually, which again was a question shared with Sam.
53:31
It was regarding what's it like from James?
53:34
What was it like the transition? We touched on last week how tricky it is and
53:39
obviously the natural down there is of coming away from this in the atmosphere
53:42
and especially after such amazing memories.
53:44
But with regards to treatment and soft tissue therapy, James came in and asked,
53:49
how did you find the transition back into the real world where you no longer
53:52
had therapists at your disposal?
53:54
So basically going from everything to being far more limited has
53:58
that affected you sam and gemma yeah i've
54:02
been in a very lucky position that so one of the
54:04
physios from the team ben treaders is still
54:08
a military physio and he's my physio as a still serving person so.
54:11
I've had great continuity and i've seen him a couple of times
54:14
since the games and actually it's been a really good opportunity to talk with
54:17
someone who was there and saw it and has seen how it's gone
54:20
and you know rehab is a long slow grind sometimes
54:23
and you can't rehab the entire time so the games was a lovely
54:26
break from some of that rehab and now it's kind of a little
54:29
bit back to reality and back to doing the you know he's
54:32
a great physio he tries to make the exercises fun but there's only so much fun
54:35
that you can make some rehab exercises and so we're
54:38
kind of back to that grind but it's for me
54:41
it's great having someone who understands what's happened and
54:45
understands where my goals are at but yeah
54:48
I don't have them on my beck and call you know I can't just you know
54:51
of an evening be like oh Jenny can you just have a little look this you know
54:54
thing so but they've done
54:56
all the hard work in the education on how we can manage
54:59
ourselves and they've all been great throughout
55:02
the process of being like okay well we've identified this and you
55:06
know you need to look after this yourself by doing x y and z and so
55:09
now it's kind of keeping that sort of motivation or
55:12
discipline to do those things fantastic for
55:16
you jimma yeah i think I really felt actually because
55:18
I had my rowing on the Sunday so we
55:21
had I had two rowing competitions then it
55:24
was the medal ceremony and then the evening
55:27
sort of event and then straight onto the plane the next day so.
55:31
I the next day when I was sat on that plane my
55:33
goodness I could feel every single second of my rowing and
55:36
I really felt you know that is exactly the time
55:39
when I could have done with going to soft tissue you're like
55:42
can you just swap my SIJ back out please because it's done
55:45
that weird thing again and yet every part of me was was in
55:47
agony after the rowing so i think
55:50
feedback for the organizers next year don't put the
55:53
rowing on the very last day before we get a 10-hour flight
55:56
home i think the beauty blew a rehearsing as
55:59
a result of that but like sam said the hard work
56:02
could have been done by them in that we had gone
56:05
through different sessions i know how i can manage that by
56:08
myself you know we'd spoken about recommendations of other
56:11
therapists who live near me so that you can you know get into a regular practice
56:14
because i think all the way through it was reiterated to us you know you are
56:18
very lucky to have this here and you will not have this going forward afterwards
56:21
so let's get some exercises up and running let's give you some recommendations
56:25
for people you know that are in your local area that that understand and can
56:29
help you going forward so,
56:32
Whilst it would have been really, I think they'd have been really busy if they
56:34
had set up a treatment clinic on the plane.
56:37
Yeah, I think they've done the hard work and the education. Yeah,
56:42
I think they've shown us what's available from a really good soft tissue or sports therapist.
56:46
And I think that's been really, really helpful because now we can spread the
56:49
word about, you know, have you considered going to a really good sports tissue
56:54
therapist or a really good sports therapist, you know, as a place where the
56:57
chiropractor or video or, you know, somebody like that.
57:00
I think it's definitely on a lot of people's variety.
57:04
Which is interesting because we were just talking off air, weren't we?
57:08
There's not really a register or anything, Carl and Jenny, for people to find if they needed help.
57:13
If somebody is listening to this and they think that they could get benefit
57:17
from a soft tissue therapist or something, how do they, it's word of mouth,
57:21
isn't it? There isn't a register or a list yet.
57:24
Maybe there's one in the pipeline. Some of the soft tissue therapist associations,
57:27
they do have the registers, but they're not widely known about.
57:33
I think it's, as you say, I think it tends to be much more word of mouth.
57:37
And it's difficult as well because, as we all know, we each have different specialities, don't we?
57:45
And choosing somebody off a list sometimes isn't always going to give you what you really want.
57:51
And you know how many times you're going to go back and keep trying somebody else
57:54
until you find the one you want it's tricky it's difficult i guess this is what
57:59
we learned with kobe wasn't it like a zoom calls and from what we've talked
58:02
about the qualities which you have aren't all about just what's in your hands
58:05
so maybe with a some kind of zoom call you can find out if you can connect with
58:08
that person and listen to their experiences and that sort of stuff so maybe,
58:12
in both ways you know i think on the show not
58:15
long ago i think it was with joe turner and she made a
58:18
hugely valuable point about how therapists need to know if
58:21
the patient or client perspective client who's come to see them
58:24
if if you as a therapist think this isn't going to work i
58:27
haven't got the skills for you or you need to know when you say you know what
58:31
i'm going to refer you to somebody else and not worry about it it's nothing
58:34
it's not tiring you it's not tiring the other person it's just not all relationships
58:38
will click together we need to think accept that a little bit more be kinder
58:41
to ourselves as therapists you know and refer patients or clients on as and when,
58:46
but yeah well at least people haven't got a problem now all they've
58:49
got to do is get in contact with one of you two and yes you put
58:52
on there and we're sorted so there you go right fantastic
58:55
i don't want to keep you for any longer than you kindly agreed to so here's
59:00
905 so thank you again so much for your time and there's lots more we could
59:03
have talked about but i think also we've covered so much it's been massive massively
59:07
informative insight into both being there as a competitor and also being there
59:11
as a therapist and some really beautiful information coming out So thank you, everybody.
59:15
Right thank you those who joined us live as well appreciate it very
59:19
kind of you we will be back like i said
59:21
next week if you want to join us live listen to the podcast
59:24
and you like the idea of coming along and asking our guests questions live then
59:28
it's going to be wednesday okay not next tuesday
59:31
it'll be next wednesday still at eight
59:34
o'clock going live on youtube or facebook whichever you prefer and
59:37
my guest is going to be dan wheelsdan metcalf if
59:40
you want to look up on youtube just do a wheels down search
59:43
wheels down metcalf and you'll see his incredible story um and
59:47
the amazing features he's doing now very empowering and
59:50
very empowering stuff see what i did there yeah and and
59:53
yeah come along because yeah absolutely incredible such a
59:56
such a great talker and and really motivating and
59:59
and honestly it's worth coming along and joining his life just to ask questions and
1:00:02
react to what he's going to say no filter i think that's his
1:00:05
other nickname as well as wheels down so it's going
1:00:08
to be a really great hour really will be not challenging at all
1:00:10
and so yeah come along for that otherwise as always
1:00:14
available it will be on the podcast the same as this one if you
1:00:17
do listen to the podcast and please please please please please for to
1:00:20
help get the great information from our guests out there just leave a rating and
1:00:23
a review it takes a couple of minutes so yeah hopefully see
1:00:25
some of you live for that but thanks again sam may jenny barnes carla vickerstaff
1:00:31
and jenny lane thank you so much for your time thank you thanks thank you for
1:00:35
having us oh no it's absolutely wonderful i really appreciate you giving up
1:00:38
of time it's absolutely brilliant so thank you right take care of each other
1:00:42
and hopefully see some of you soon.
1:00:43
Music.