Latest / Gunther Fehlinger Podcast / Austrian MP Gudrun Kugler: From Vienna to Washington-Human Rights, War & Europe’s Future

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Austrian MP Gudrun Kugler: From Vienna to Washington-Human Rights, War & Europe’s Future · Gunther Fehlinger Podcast

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We are so happy at the Gunther Failing, a broadcaster to
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welcome again Gudrun Kugler, the Member of the Austrian
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Parliament and the spokesperson for Human rights, on this very
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special day on the 10th of December.
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You were willing to speak to us and to our audience.
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Thank you very much, Gudrun, because why?
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What's the meaning of the 10th of December, the UN Day for
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Human Rights, for you? Thank you Gunther for having me
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and good to see everybody again. At least on the through a
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podcast. Look, December 10th is in a way
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you could see a symbolic date. The the the rights of human
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rights really happened after World War 2.
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And it's as a good reason that in 1948 the Universal
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Declaration of Human Rights was agreed on.
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Everybody was still very much in the under the impression of the
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incredible atrocities of World War 2.
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And we just needed to say, look, there are certain rules that are
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always true no matter where you are, who you are, in what states
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status you are personally, but things that are always true and
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rights that you always have. And and these rights go beyond
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the capacity of the state to say, well, but we don't care,
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right? So there's an international
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order. And today we speak about the
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rules based international order and this is innovative core of
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it. And it has had been a very
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intense development. Things have changed.
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There were enlargements of the idea of human rights and so on.
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But it came I think for me all the way to a culmination in the
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year 2000 when the ICC was founded in a national Criminal
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Court and the Rome Statute was agreed on in the year 2000.
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And the Rome Statute of the ICC says if somebody acts in
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according with their national law and and or on the on the
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order of his or her superiors and thereby commits crimes
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against humanity and war crimes, then this person is still guilty
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and can still be imprisoned. So your national law cannot be
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stronger than the these basic understanding of the rights of
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the human person. And, and here you have for the
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first time in international law, the, the international law
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actually legislates all the way through to the individual, which
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normally that's, that's not what it does.
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It binds states. But also you say even if your
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legislative order, your laws say that's OK, it is not OK.
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So this and today is the day where this becomes apparent.
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And this is so powerful and so meaningful, and basically this
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is the Western world order. This is our values, this is our
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system. But today, unfortunately, it's
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under attack on many fronts. Where do you see the biggest
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attacks on human rights globally today on the 10th of December
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2025? You know, it is a trap when one
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speaks about human rights only to think of, you know,
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developing countries or countries in transition or
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countries within war because we need to look at human rights in
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every society. We also need to look at human
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rights in Western Europe. And but it's very fast.
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People say, oh, let's talk about, you know, some fire away
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place. But I understand that we talk
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about fire away places also. But I just would like to say let
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us always look at our countries as well.
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And we could talk more about this later if you want.
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So looking at other places in the world, obviously every war
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and every conflict situation, violent conflict situation
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becomes a violation of human rights, many of them, right,
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virtually almost everyone, every right gets violated in a war
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situation. So and, and you know better than
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anybody else where these places are and what we need to see.
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And then there are also frozen conflicts in the world that are
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constant human rights violations and or places where we have
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political oppression, but not of war, right.
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So maybe in this case, I would like to mention the the, the
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issues that we see in Georgia. You have a governing party that
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imprisons political opponents, that uses chemicals against
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people protesting and these and, and we do speak about it, but it
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always almost seems we do not speak enough about it because I
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count toward to the European context.
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And if these things are happening so close to us, but
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Speaking of close to us, Belarus, you have an entire
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suppression system where virtually hardly any political
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and human freedoms and rights are being respected.
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Then obviously in Ukraine, we have a war that's it's own
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category. But look at the occupied
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territories and we always terrible and we, we forget about
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the people who live in occupied territories because in a way we
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are like, what can we do? And yes, it's very sad, but, but
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we have to keep speaking in their favour and and on their
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behalf because they cannot right, They cannot speak, also
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have no political freedoms. There's a lot of talk about
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changing land borders and so, but it always comes with
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millions of people and their conditions should be also
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considered. I am totally with you.
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You know, I mean, we have to establish peace somehow, and it
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looks like that it will include the movement of borders.
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And this is very sad. But this is also a reality that
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we have to accept. I'm not happy about it.
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And I know that the prices people pay is absolutely
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outrageous, but we have to find a solution that this does not
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escalate further and that the dying will stop and it will
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unfortunately include, it seems, a a moving of borders.
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And another very sad thing is that the aggressor gets
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something right. So it looks like the aggressor
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gets his way and then other aggressors will say, oh, it
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actually works. But then also with regard to
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human rights, what if there was an amnesty for war criminals,
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atrocities committed on Ukrainian soil by Russian
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soldiers? And I am very worried that if we
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let these people go free, then a new world order is established
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of saying, oh, actually, you know, we just have to be strong
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enough and we can do whatever we want.
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So this is this is just a few examples of where we have to be
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very watchful and worrisome, while at the same time this is
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real life. Like we have to find solutions
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and these solutions have to be based somehow in the realities
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that we have. And we cannot choose our
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neighbors and we cannot decide who is the one we talk to.
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We have to talk with the people that we have to talk to.
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Good on you. Also as a member of the Austrian
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parliament, one of the few personalities in Austria with
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really good access to the United States leadership.
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You're also the coordinator of the National Prayer breakfast in
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the Austrian parliament. You are have been just last week
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in the United States. Yeah.
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How do you see the situation? Because we're all a bit worried
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that the Americans are not longer so on this world order as
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we know it since 45, when the Americans basically won the
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World War and they have made this world order.
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But now they you seem somehow no longer so proud of it or don't
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want to keep it up. And please, what's your
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perspective after your visit in Washington, DC last week?
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Look, there is a lot of debate about the geopolitical changes
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that are also caused by the Americans.
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And one, of course, is that they say, well, Europe, you know,
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defend yourself. Why should we do it?
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And we should not wonder why the Americans are doing this after
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we have treated them terribly for years.
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That's also something, you know, the words that are being used to
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the transatlantic community is, I mean, I understand that they
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are upset. So now the issue of the security
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document and this document, it's called the US National Security
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Strategy 2025 and this and, and it came out a few days ago and
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there's a lot of anger about it within the European hierarchy.
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I understand it, but there's one thing I can learn from this is
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if you know, the bird gets thrown out of the nest, the bird
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just has to fly. And so yes, we're not happy to
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be thrown out of the nest, but now we need to fly.
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And instead of being angry at America, we should think about
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how flying looks and how we do it.
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And 1 of this is defence. And look, we need to work
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towards very fast towards interoperational ability.
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Sorry, I said the word in English.
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Interoperational ability of our armies, right?
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So that's what language do we use?
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How do we share information? How do we understand codes?
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What's the ammunition that we use?
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Can also somebody else use it? How can we cooperate?
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So we need to be strong in order to be safe.
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In the Austrian National Library, there is a statue of
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Charles the 6th, father of Mother Teresa of, of Maria
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Teresia, Charles the 6th. So he stands there and he points
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towards the, the, the, the, the beautiful arts and but then he
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shows that he has a sword here to the other side, right?
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So he says, look, we are here because life is beautiful and we
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are happy to live together as friends and neighbors.
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But for us, you know, for you to respect this, I will show you
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that I have a very sharp sword on this side.
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So this is where we need to get so bird thrown out of the nest,
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but learn how to fly. And if we don't do it, we will
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be in serious trouble. That's the one thing.
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The other thing is everybody gets angry at the messenger of
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bad news. So again, people get angry at
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the United States. And maybe the language to use in
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this document is a little bit harsh, but let us just see if
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there's something in there that might inspire us that maybe lays
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a finger into a wound that we need to know about.
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So it says you guys are doing bad in economics, it is true.
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Over regulation, high taxes, industry leaving us.
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If we do not fix this, we are not going to be as Europeans
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meaningful on the stage. Secondly, they speak about
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migration and demographic problems.
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We have lots of migration which changes our understanding of it,
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changed who we are, right? It's true.
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If you look into Vienna primary schools, we were always a
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traditionally Catholic country. Now there are 17% Catholics and
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41% Muslims. And I think that, you know, this
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is a change that we need to be aware of and we need to deal
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with it. The demographic crisis, we have
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a birth rate in Europe of 1.31.38 in Europe, 1.3 in
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Austria. That means in every generation
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we lose a third of our population.
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Well, we better look at this and find solutions to it, right?
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What the Americans don't see a document is that they have the
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same problem, however significantly later.
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So. And then you speak about Europe
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becoming illiberal with regard to politics and some human
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freedoms. And right, so we are back to our
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topic. They say you're not doing good
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in free speech. And you know what I say?
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Unfortunately, that's true and it's not good.
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We can we have free speech in Europe?
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You know, so there are studies that say that almost half of the
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population of Europe think it's better not to say what they
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think, right? It's better not to say it,
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right? So that's already not a good
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climate for innovation and for finding better ways.
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Then we have a number of of of court cases of people who were
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who are being tried because of of speech issues.
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Examples are always difficult, but this ranges from criticizing
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Islam right to standing in in front of an English abortion
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clinic to pray what sometimes Christians do right?
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And these people are in court and many people in between.
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And then there's cancer culture. You have you heard how often
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have interesting speakers been disinvited from their stages as
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universities? You know, so that is something
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about free speech. So if we take all of these
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criticisms that America plays out on Europe, I understand that
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we are not happy to hear them, of course.
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And I understand that they have formulated in a very harsh way.
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I mean, you speak of civilization, Eraser the.
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Last time in Vienna I went out, everything was quite proper and
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fine. The real estate prices are high,
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the situation seems quite public, orders up kept, and the
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Americans are portraying us as kind of wilderness, a jungle or
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something like this in these documents.
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Yeah. But do they, do they really,
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they say in Europe will look very different in 20 years.
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I think we know that maybe it's 30 years, but that's true.
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They say that industry is running away, but and we'll see
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that coming and the demographic crisis will hit us soon, right?
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So yes, you look at the street of Vienna and everything is
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really nice. It's a.
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Pool of tourists. And it's expensive.
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We have to think far ahead. And, and so all of you know what
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I'm saying is let us take the criticism seriously in so far as
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it we say it makes sense and think about what we can do with
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it and if we and, and, and see where we can get better.
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So that's right. Instead of getting angry at
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Americans, I think we could say let's see what we can improve.
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And yes, there are issues we need to improve, but you are
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absolutely right in saying that Europe is an incredible place to
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live. And somebody just recently said
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being born in Europe is like winning the lottery.
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And that's true. But let's make sure it stays
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like this. I know America also very well.
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I know Eastern Europe, I know all of Europe and some other
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countries in Asia, Africa, and it's actually quite nice in but
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surprised by Elon Musk and also Jade events.
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They were criticising as well that we somehow restrict the
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freedom of speech online. But for example, in Russia, they
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have forbidden all the Internet platforms of America like X
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YouTube. They have basically forbidden
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all of that and by the force of law and you get into prison if
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you promote the content of the free world there.
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So, you know, he could have also chosen a little bit of a bigger
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target and target the abuse of Russia internally and in
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Ukraine, but he chose not to. And I wonder how we get out of
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this messy situation with our allies now in 2026.
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What's your advice on this one? I think we need to work on good
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relations with everybody. And even though we might have
15:32
hesitations and, and if we and even if we disagree, look, you
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can decide yourself who goes to your birthday party, but you
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cannot decide, you know, who sits on the table in
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international negotiations, right?
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So on the one hand, I think we need to really try to understand
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American concerns and not unnecessarily work against them.
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Then we also need to, I talk, I'm sorry to say, but we also
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need to talk to Russia. Look at the OSCE.
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Russia is still a participating country and many try to get them
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out. But Austria and about 15 other
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countries are very strong and saying no, you know, we are, we
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need to talk to them. Not because we love them or
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they're so grateful to do, of course not, but because if we do
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not talk, we will not find solutions and then it's unsafe
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for all of us. So.
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We kicked them out of the Council of Europe.
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Why? To keep them in OS City.
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What's the difference? Because OSCE was founded in the
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Cold War for East and West to talk to each other.
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It's the entire purpose. But the whole Helsinki process
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was very much about human rights in Eastern Europe.
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And to some extent many people say that the Helsinki process
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was very useful to have the Charter 77 and more human rights
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and protection for the people of Eastern Europe during communist
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meeting. But now Russia is not keeping
16:57
any of these provisions in, even in Russia actually, but in the
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occupied territories, they are basically reintroducing a modern
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kind of slavery. And they are not keeping any of
17:08
the things which we hoped we would do by keeping them in the
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OS today. And what's your call on that
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situation? But as you say, it was founded
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in order to strengthen human rights in Eastern Europe,
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amongst other things. Well, that's what we need to do
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again. So you hope that Russia will be
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more compliant in the future? Well, first we hope that we will
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find a form of just peace, and yes, then we will work together.
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It's good that everything else is unsafe.
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And what? That's a beautiful German.
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That is called jumping over your own shadow, right?
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It doesn't exist in English, doesn't exist in Russian.
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But in Germany we say jump over your shadow, which means leave
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behind your own pride issues and try to understand the other one.
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And just like, say, OK, I, we will, we will.
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Let's find a way. And I personally think that if
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we are not able to do this, we will be in a very dire security
18:12
situation. Europe and I have children.
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I don't want that. Sure, Mrs. Member, I ask you a
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good one about the peace process.
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You were in Washington. I think you were also in the
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White House. Do you have any secret breaking?
18:25
News, I feel. Optimistic that this peace
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process led by President Trump will come to a conclusion.
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Honestly, I don't know. And I also don't know what I
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want in this. It's difficult to say.
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Look, I'm in favour of a peace process and I know it's it, it
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hurts and every, you know, that it, it, it, it, it hurts the
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Europeans, it hurts the Ukrainians, it should hurt the
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Russians also. So we have to accept that it
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will be difficult for everybody. But we need peace, so that's one
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thing. The other thing is that I am
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very worried about amnesty for war criminals and about giving
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over territory that was not even occupied yet, right?
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And I'm extremely worried what it means for the people who live
19:16
there. Soviet Union 2.0 And then
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there's another war. Maybe the biggest worry and that
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is that Putin will use this to just take a breath and then keep
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going. And who can guarantee that he
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doesn't do it since the rules based international order does
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not seem to be a very good big concern to him.
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So I have to these questions. Could I have no answer?
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I'm sorry. So some people say, yes, he will
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agree and keep the peace and and then times will change and he
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will be old and die and then we'll be safe.
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That's what some people think. I don't know.
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Other people will say if we keep fighting and he sees he's not
20:00
making progress, we will kind of keep our us safer.
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But it means so many people that are dying and will keep dying in
20:11
this war. And I'm also not very happy
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about this. So I, I honestly don't know if
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we, if we come to some form of an agreement, then it will be
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our task of all of us on the different levels of society and
20:26
politics to work with the Russians in a way that we will,
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that we will bind them to our value family in a way that they
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will not think of doing this again and going any further.
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Maybe that's where I most practically would say that's
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what I hope for. Good one in 96.
20:49
We were all very optimistic because we integrated Russia in
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the Council of Europe. I myself was in the youth
20:54
department at that time, and we discussed before the youth
20:57
organization to join. And it was the argument, you
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know, inside our structures there will be human rights
21:03
protected and there will be the administration rights protected.
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And it will be much, much better than state by being inside our
21:12
value system. And for some years it works
21:14
relatively well. But then they have decided to do
21:18
all these criminal activities. How can some country stay inside
21:23
our system, like in the UN, for example?
21:25
Now Russia is in the UN Security Council.
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They are the lawmaker while they break the law and they break the
21:32
human rights. This is for all the people who
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love the UN as me as well, and also our system as we have it.
21:40
It's very hard to understand that somebody who is breaking
21:43
all the rules can be still inside the system as if nothing
21:48
is happening. For example, now the
21:49
international court of the in 10 hack you mentioned it the the
21:54
ball crimes court, they accept even the Russian to be part of
21:57
the negotiation. So the the process in some new
22:00
verdict and so how can that be That's something I think many
22:04
people ask themselves how can somebody who breaks the house
22:07
and be part of the family. That's something we've.
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I, I totally hear you, but look, it might make us feel better to
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exclude them, but what's the gain?
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And just for me to feel good because I did something very
22:24
brave today, I kicked out the Russians might have consequences
22:28
that, you know, it might make you feel good, but it might not
22:32
be good. And, and we cannot, as I said,
22:35
it's not your birthday party. You cannot choose the
22:37
participants. So they're they're, they're
22:40
relatively big and, and drawing them in is always safer.
22:45
But what I expect, of course, is that our colleagues who
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negotiate these things will not let corrupted laws enter our
22:54
system. But I do believe that the the
22:57
people are knowledgeable and they have large majorities.
23:00
So that should not be the case. That's of course the biggest
23:03
issue. But you mentioned also Georgia
23:05
and other states where Belarus, you also mentioned which other
23:10
countries in the world, because it's a global day of human
23:13
rights. Where do you see big dangers for
23:16
the human rights today in December 25 our.
23:22
Last Post, last podcast was about persecution of Christians
23:25
and we talked a lot about Nigeria and thousands of dead
23:29
Christians. We see that some countries are
23:36
not very open to protecting rights, for example, with for
23:44
different religious minorities. And I know that you care, care,
23:48
care very much about Kosovo, right?
23:50
And there are a lot of issues that we can look at there also.
23:55
And one thing that I never really understood, but I accept
24:00
it as a fact, is that the Orthodox Church thinks that
24:03
whenever they have a new border somewhere, they have to refound
24:06
the church. So I think that churches should
24:10
be above state waters. And in this case, we just see
24:17
lots of problems also coming from the church being part of a
24:22
political process. What do you see in the role of
24:26
the Catholic Church now at the human rights state?
24:29
Because the new Pope American is very active, for example, on the
24:33
rights of migrants in the United States and actually also on the
24:37
even criticized President Trump for his native statements.
24:40
So it made me very happy. The new Pope is really a
24:43
fantastic leader of the church. I'm so happy actually.
24:46
But it's so interesting. Yes, you're, you're absolutely
24:49
right. Look, I think the the the
24:52
Catholic Church has over centuries prepared the
24:58
understanding that we nowadays have of human rights and and
25:03
human rights really are a western invention and Western
25:07
civilization lies on three hills, as we already mentioned
25:12
earlier. So Rome, Athens, Jerusalem,
25:16
Roman law, Greek democracy and the Trudeau Christian vision of
25:21
the human person. These three together are the
25:24
basis and the soil of western, Western civilization and our
25:29
human rights is totally, totally and, and, and how do you say
25:38
runs out of, of this idea of, of the three hills?
25:42
And interestingly, people say, Oh yeah, the Catholic Church is
25:46
super medieval against all human rights.
25:48
It's not true. It's it's the teaching that
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they've carried through the centuries has made our current
25:53
understanding of human rights possible.
25:55
And you can also see with the current Pope that he is not
25:59
trying to lean towards governments, right?
26:01
So he does, he says what's good and what is bad.
26:03
And it does not look at who's to lead in if he wants to be
26:06
friends or not. And what you said about EO and
26:09
President Trump is actually, I think the church is being very
26:13
brave. And it is important to think
26:16
about the issue at stake. And this is also one of the
26:20
symbolisms of today's day. Good, because you're a Christian
26:26
Democrat, conservative politicians and spokesperson for
26:29
human rights. Is there ideological difference
26:32
between the perspective of Christian Democrats on human
26:34
rights and the left wing perspective on human rights?
26:37
And what how to understand the approach on on this day?
26:41
And what perspective do you prefer on human rights?
26:45
Very interesting. Yes, I am a little bit worried
26:50
about the approach that I can see with the left towards human
26:53
rights, because they on the one hand use them politically,
26:57
instrumentalised them politically when it fits the
26:59
purpose and on the other hand, they are very selective in which
27:04
human rights they want to support and which they do not
27:06
want to support, right. So I can give you examples for
27:10
what I mean. The WE debate issues of
27:16
children's rights and in Western countries, bioethical questions.
27:22
For example, do we allow anonymous egg or sperm donation
27:26
for artificial reproduction? We, and it is very clear in the
27:31
Children's Rights Convention that a child has a right to know
27:35
it's both biological parents. So it obviously shouldn't be
27:39
possible to have anonymous sperm donation, right?
27:42
But the left wants that and so they do not care.
27:45
They just forget about the children's rights convention
27:48
there. And it's very clear because it
27:50
has a child has the right to know it's paralogical parents.
27:53
Of course, if it's not possible, it's not possible.
27:54
But we cannot organise our our artificial reproduction system
27:59
in a way that they cannot possibly find out who are the
28:02
biological parents. But then the left just ignores
28:06
it. But if they want to use it, then
28:08
they put it on all of their flakes and, and I think is that
28:14
if we want to be truthful to human rights, we cannot use them
28:18
selectively. It must be universally applied
28:22
globally. And it's yes, and it's, and it's
28:25
really not something that I can pick a truth from.
28:28
It's like, oh, I prefer not to have that human right, right.
28:32
So that's absolutely not OK. And, and I just can't, I can see
28:37
that they overdo it on many issues and, and they don't look
28:44
to the issues that might be just in front of the eyes and very
28:47
clear. Give you another very concrete
28:50
example. The one of the Armenian bishops
28:53
who actually works in Vienna for the Armenian Church all over
28:57
Europe, He said to me, you know, he said I met the human rights
29:03
defender and he said it in a way as if he met like a terrible
29:07
person and he has to apologised to me, right?
29:10
But I'm like, no, yes, I'm a human rights defender.
29:13
And and then I realised that in his view, human rights are
29:17
something bad because he constantly gets pressured by the
29:22
left to do things that do not correspond with his
29:25
understanding and the reality of Armenian society.
29:29
So he thinks human rights are just, it's just a socially
29:34
liberal pressure group and it's and it's not right if he has it
29:41
it that's just a total misunderstanding.
29:43
So I, I think that if the leftover interprets and over
29:51
emphasises things that might not be grounded in human rights, but
29:55
called it human rights and then use it selectively and overlooks
29:59
other things, the consequences that people turn away from human
30:02
rights. And the same is true, I'm sorry
30:05
to say, for the international institutions such as the
30:07
European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
30:10
So the court makes it difficult for countries like Austria to
30:15
return illegal immigrants, especially with a criminal
30:20
record. And, and there was a letter
30:25
undersigned by 9 prime ministers from different party families,
30:28
including my Prime Minister Glystovschoka to the European
30:31
Court of Human Rights saying please, you know, your decisions
30:36
should still remember that human rights have to be practicable
30:41
and doable and, and, and the people will otherwise turn away
30:48
from you. And we do not want people to
30:51
turn away from human rights because this would mean
30:53
authoritarian, authoritarian dictatorships and then end of
30:57
freedom. But we have to protect human
31:00
rights by not over interpreting them or by using them
31:04
selectively or instrumentalising them politically.
31:08
So the left has basically done a bad service to the whole concept
31:11
of human rights and because they have overdone things and abused
31:16
actually the concept. Partly, right, The left has
31:19
also, you know, laid fingers and wounds that are important and
31:23
helped us create a free and just society, right?
31:27
But now I can see that that things are just going very far
31:33
and they're not helpful anymore in the dialogue.
31:35
And if we want to protect human rights, and if we want to keep
31:38
free and just societies, we just must not forget this on such a
31:41
day as December 10th. Exactly, because I always saw
31:45
myself and I see you as well as a human rights defender, because
31:49
you're fighting for the rights of Christians everywhere in the
31:52
world, from Syria to North Korea to Nigeria, Biafra.
31:57
And that's very much human rights.
31:58
Obviously, it's the rights of people to live in free
32:01
societies, and that's very much human rights.
32:04
So it should be our proud day and it is our proud day.
32:09
And I want to thank you very much for this interview.
32:11
And everybody, please, it's the global day for human rights.
32:15
And this is a very Christian concept.
32:17
This is a concept for freedom. This is a concept of we can all
32:23
be very proud for the defense of individual freedom and the
32:26
rights of humans to live secure, to have the property and the
32:30
right to be peaceful, to live in peace.
32:34
And that is something maybe the UN should return to, if I may
32:37
say so, a little bit more focus again on peace and less on all
32:42
the other issues. But the return to the Human
32:45
Rights Day would be wonderful. Guten, maybe some closing
32:48
remarks for you on the Human Rights Day.
32:50
And thanks again for coming to SECOND Time to the Pot.
32:53
And in 2026, hopefully, you will return and we will continue our
32:58
fight for human rights and against discrimination of
33:01
Christians and of everybody actually in the world.
33:05
I would love to return. Thank you.
33:07
You're so kind and so generous. I have me.
33:10
You know, human rights are not given to us by our states in an
33:15
act of generosity, but they are innate in us.
33:18
We have rights because we have dignity, right?
33:21
And well. And it is true that we can see
33:24
things about the human person, no matter where they live, no
33:28
matter what's their background and, and it, and these things
33:32
are still true. And that is that if we want to
33:35
flourish, we need freedom, right.
33:38
Without freedom, we will suffocate.
33:41
And human rights are not all the freedoms that we need us, but
33:45
it's the baseline. It's what we cannot do without.
33:49
And it's it is not up to a government to accept or not to
33:53
accept. We have to all underline and
33:56
support this as a broad community.
33:59
And it's the basis of flourishing.
34:01
And we've, we have learned a lot in the last 80 years about this,
34:06
but our learning process is not over.
34:09
But we can only learn by lots of great people joining minds and
34:12
having a lot of discussion about it.
34:13
And This is why I go to your podcast are just a great idea.
34:16
So thank you for having me. Thanks a lot.
34:18
This was my interview with Guten Kogler, Member of the Austrian
34:21
Parliament, who took this half an hour out of a busy schedule
34:24
today. It's the last plenary.
34:26
A lot of things are important in the agenda to be voted in the
34:30
Austrian Parliament. But thanks for taking the time
34:33
and thanks for your lifelong effort for global human rights
34:37
and for a better planet and for freedom in the world.
34:40
Thanks a lot, Gurung Kugra. Appreciate it.
34:42
All the best in 2026. And for you?
34:47
We have the camera often that's in tank.
34:51
This one, Bundabar, it's past.