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#373 Jason Flom with Elwood Jones · Wrongful Conviction

0:03
Speaker 1: On Labor Day weekend nineteen ninety four, Rooda Nathan flew
0:06
Speaker 1: into Cincinnati for a bar mitzvah. She shared a room
0:10
Speaker 1: at the Embassy Suites in the nearby suburb of Blue
0:12
Speaker 1: Ash with two friends. On the morning of Saturday, September third,
0:17
Speaker 1: her friends went down to the complimentary breakfast, leaving Rhoda
0:20
Speaker 1: behind to shower. They returned less than an hour later
0:25
Speaker 1: to a bloody scene after life saving measures had failed,
0:30
Speaker 1: and autopsy revealed blood force trauma to Roda Nathan's head
0:33
Speaker 1: and torso, as well as that two teeth were missing.
0:36
Speaker 1: Also missing five hundred dollars had some jewelry, allegedly including
0:40
Speaker 1: a pendant that Rhoda always wore. There was no sign
0:44
Speaker 1: of forced entry, so the police narrowed their search to
0:46
Speaker 1: hotel employees, eventually discovering one staffer named Elwood Jones, who
0:51
Speaker 1: had injured his hand that day. Further investigation revealed his
0:56
Speaker 1: access to a master key, as well as various objects
0:59
Speaker 1: there could have been responsible for Rodin Nathan's injuries, including
1:02
Speaker 1: a walkie talkie and a door chain found in his car.
1:06
Speaker 1: During the following week, el was injured hand became infected.
1:10
Speaker 1: His treating physician noted a bacteria in the wound that
1:13
Speaker 1: is commonly found in human mouths. The state argued that
1:16
Speaker 1: Elwood Jones infected himself in knocking out Rooda Nathan's teeth,
1:20
Speaker 1: which sounded scientific enough to the jury. But this is
1:25
Speaker 1: raeful conviction. Welcome back to Rafel conviction, where we're covering
1:39
Speaker 1: yet another story of an innocent man who had been
1:41
Speaker 1: sentenced to death in Ohio. This time it's out of
1:44
Speaker 1: Hamilton County, which encompasses Cincinnati, and when it comes to
1:48
Speaker 1: raefel convictions in Ohio, Hamilton is second only to Cuyahoga County.
1:53
Speaker 1: And this time it's believed that the prosecutors at trial,
1:56
Speaker 1: Mark Pete Meyer and Seth Tiger, names you're going to
1:59
Speaker 1: become fromiliar with. Well, it appears that they knew that
2:03
Speaker 1: Elwood Jones was innocent but sent him to death. Throw anyway, Elwood,
2:08
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry about where you've been and what you've
2:11
Speaker 1: been through, but I'm happy and honored to have you
2:14
Speaker 1: here today. Thank you, You're very welcome. And joining him
2:17
Speaker 1: or two of his attorneys, David Hine, first of all, welcome,
2:20
Speaker 1: thank you, glad to be here, and of course j Clark.
2:24
Speaker 2: Thanks Jason. I'm glad to be here as well.
2:26
Speaker 1: So let's start right from the beginning. As I mentioned,
2:29
Speaker 1: this is a Cincinnati story through and through, and you
2:32
Speaker 1: grew up there, right.
2:33
Speaker 3: I was born in Susinaoha. I grew up downtown in
2:38
Speaker 3: West the end. I went to Catholic school. My parents
2:42
Speaker 3: now moved to the suburbs in the later years.
2:45
Speaker 1: And what was Cincinnati like back then?
2:48
Speaker 3: You tell him about in the sixties, and what none
2:51
Speaker 3: spectacular about if you're talking about the criminal justice system
2:56
Speaker 3: is just as worse as it is now.
2:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe you.
3:00
Speaker 2: There was a study that Hamilton County, by zip code,
3:02
Speaker 2: has more people on death row than anywhere else in
3:05
Speaker 2: the country.
3:05
Speaker 1: Wow.
3:06
Speaker 2: I think that in Cuyahoga County they had the same problem,
3:09
Speaker 2: as they have one or two or three prosecutors who
3:12
Speaker 2: think the rules don't apply and they shouldn't apply. There's
3:15
Speaker 2: probably a handful of three or four assistant prosecutors whose
3:18
Speaker 2: names keep coming up constantly in cases that have been reversed.
3:23
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it, the rules kind
3:26
Speaker 1: of don't apply to any prosecutor. Their immunity from accountability
3:30
Speaker 1: leaves them free to chase the tough on crime image,
3:33
Speaker 1: and with this anything goes mentality, we too often see
3:36
Speaker 1: a trail of wrongful convictions in their way. And clearly
3:39
Speaker 1: Cincinnati was, and sad to say, still is no exception.
3:43
Speaker 3: It's a very conservative city. And I understand that I
3:47
Speaker 3: get that and not believe in law and aught that
3:51
Speaker 3: I do, even though I was on the other side
3:53
Speaker 3: of the track when I became adult. A couple of
3:56
Speaker 3: times I was arrested.
3:58
Speaker 1: What was that for?
3:59
Speaker 3: It was? And burgery?
4:01
Speaker 1: That was it? All right? So your record wasn't exactly clean,
4:05
Speaker 1: but no violent crimes. And I understand that by now
4:09
Speaker 1: you had paid your debt to society and had a
4:12
Speaker 1: job working at a hotel, steady job at the Embassy
4:15
Speaker 1: Suites in the Cincinnati suburb called Blue Ash, and you
4:18
Speaker 1: were in your early forties by this time, married, so
4:21
Speaker 1: things were stabilized. And what was your wife's name?
4:25
Speaker 3: Ebon. I had a friend on the side, and I
4:28
Speaker 3: think there was another piece of the paws in tree
4:31
Speaker 3: that they used that I was having an affair. The
4:34
Speaker 3: name was Earlene Metcalff non Meta. In ninety four, Erlein.
4:40
Speaker 1: Was one of Elwood's coworkers at the Embassy suites in
4:42
Speaker 1: Blue Ash, And obviously, I think most people would agree
4:45
Speaker 1: that although theft and infidelity are usually not items on
4:49
Speaker 1: the top of anyone's resume, they just don't merit a
4:53
Speaker 1: death sentence. These things are also not indicative of someone
4:56
Speaker 1: being the type of person to bludgeon another human being
4:58
Speaker 1: to death. In this case, a sixty seven year old
5:01
Speaker 1: hotel guest named Rhoda Nathan. She had come into Blue
5:05
Speaker 1: Ash from New Jersey on Friday, September second, nineteen ninety four,
5:09
Speaker 1: the day before she died.
5:11
Speaker 4: Nathan came in for her best friend's grandson's bar mitzvah.
5:16
Speaker 4: So she was traveling with a friend, Elaine Shubb, and
5:20
Speaker 4: her friend's boyfriend, Joe Kaplan, when the three of them
5:23
Speaker 4: were staying in the hotel together, and part of the
5:26
Speaker 4: state's narrative here is that Roda Nathan's friend and her
5:29
Speaker 4: boyfriend were coming from Florida and had checked in earlier
5:33
Speaker 4: in the day, just as two people Rode Nathan was
5:35
Speaker 4: traveling in from New Jersey. She had a different flight,
5:38
Speaker 4: she got there later, and the state's position was, whoever
5:42
Speaker 4: was watching the room thought that there were only two
5:45
Speaker 4: people in the room and there were actually three people
5:47
Speaker 4: staying there, and then the next morning Rhoda's traveling companions
5:51
Speaker 4: got up and went down for breakfast, Rota stayed behind
5:55
Speaker 4: to shower. So the story goes, whoever was watching this
5:59
Speaker 4: room room entered the room, expecting the room to be
6:02
Speaker 4: empty so that they could take whatever they wanted, and
6:05
Speaker 4: were surprised to find.
6:06
Speaker 5: Wrote to Nathan in the room.
6:07
Speaker 1: You know what I was reading about this? I thought,
6:09
Speaker 1: if the goal was to steal, then why not just
6:12
Speaker 1: pretend to be housekeeping and leave, you know, without murdering someone.
6:17
Speaker 1: I mean, at first glance, there's already a hole in
6:21
Speaker 1: the store you could drive a truck through. But okay,
6:23
Speaker 1: so I would hear from Elwood. I would tell me
6:25
Speaker 1: about that morning.
6:26
Speaker 3: So when I came in that morning at four point
6:28
Speaker 3: thirty and brought Earleen to work, we clocked in I
6:33
Speaker 3: think it was about quarter to five. I usually come
6:36
Speaker 3: in early in the morning to help in the comp breakfast,
6:39
Speaker 3: and then I would go to the banquet department and
6:43
Speaker 3: finish my day out.
6:45
Speaker 1: On that particular day, one of Elwood's coworkers had called
6:48
Speaker 1: out sex, so he had to pull double duty, floating
6:50
Speaker 1: between complimentary breakfast and the banquet departments. So after setting
6:54
Speaker 1: up camp breakfast, he went up to the banquet halls,
6:57
Speaker 1: which were not in the best.
7:00
Speaker 3: They was trashed, so I had to clean them out
7:04
Speaker 3: and come downstairs. I think it was around six, and
7:08
Speaker 3: going to the dumpster, I tripped going up the steps
7:12
Speaker 3: to the dumpsters the metal stairs. Going up there, I
7:15
Speaker 3: smashed my hand. Come on back into the kitchen, clean
7:20
Speaker 3: my hand, put a band aid on it, and went
7:23
Speaker 3: on back to work. I think it was around eight
7:28
Speaker 3: or something. After that the scream was upstairs. I was
7:31
Speaker 3: in compbrepast. Everybody started going upstairs to see what.
7:36
Speaker 1: Happened, and the scream, you know, presumably came from Elaine Shubb,
7:41
Speaker 1: who first came upon this literal here scene rode to.
7:45
Speaker 1: Nathan was naked, covered in blood, and the area around
7:50
Speaker 1: her was, you know, a bloody mess. So whoever attacked
7:54
Speaker 1: her would logically and certainly have been covered in blood.
7:59
Speaker 4: Within the minute of this vicious attack, Elwood was standing
8:03
Speaker 4: in the restaurant, completely composed in the clothes that he
8:06
Speaker 4: was in, not disheveled in any way, not covered in blood.
8:10
Speaker 2: Whoever did this had to have been covered in blood themselves.
8:14
Speaker 1: Right, Jay and At this point, no one knew what happened.
8:17
Speaker 1: They were just trying to save Rhoda, who had blood
8:20
Speaker 1: pouring from her mouth.
8:21
Speaker 2: I think the initial thought was that she had had
8:24
Speaker 2: a medical emergency, probably a heart attack or something along
8:28
Speaker 2: that line. The guest a Hotel who was also a nurse,
8:32
Speaker 2: they were trying to render her first aid.
8:34
Speaker 4: She was still breathing and she still had a pulse,
8:36
Speaker 4: but she was struggling like she was I think, effectively
8:39
Speaker 4: choking on the blood. So one of the issues here
8:42
Speaker 4: is that they kept taking towels and trying to mop
8:44
Speaker 4: the blood out of her throat and out of her
8:46
Speaker 4: mouth to kind of clear the airway. All of those
8:49
Speaker 4: towels used to help clean up the room that would
8:51
Speaker 4: have had DNA on it were thrown out when.
8:54
Speaker 2: Blue Ash Fire department arrived. I think they tried to
8:57
Speaker 2: intubate her, and that gets to another issue about teeth
9:00
Speaker 2: maybe being dislodged or broken out.
9:03
Speaker 1: Later on, the States speculated that Rooda Nathan's broken teeth
9:06
Speaker 1: were responsible for the injury and the infection on ELA's hand.
9:09
Speaker 1: But back to the immediate aftermath. At this point, the
9:12
Speaker 1: room was not yet being treated as a crime scene.
9:16
Speaker 1: Evidence was being contaminated or destroyed, and new injuries were
9:20
Speaker 1: potentially being created by first responders and medical personnel that
9:24
Speaker 1: added to the overall picture. At the autopsy, she was
9:27
Speaker 1: pronounced dead Epitheesda North Hospital and then was taken to
9:31
Speaker 1: the Hamilton County Coroner's office.
9:33
Speaker 4: What they reported in the autopsy was that there was
9:36
Speaker 4: Bluntfort's trauma and I think they said that there were
9:39
Speaker 4: blows to the torso, the face, and the jaw.
9:42
Speaker 1: She also tested positive for hepatitis B right.
9:45
Speaker 5: She was actively infected with it.
9:48
Speaker 1: Although we cannot be one hundred percent sure. This suggests
9:50
Speaker 1: that she was infected with hepatitis B prior to the attack,
9:53
Speaker 1: and that became pretty important later on. However, as soon
9:57
Speaker 1: as her death was rolled a homicide, two thirty seven
10:01
Speaker 1: was then considered a crime scene, where they discovered that
10:04
Speaker 1: about five hundred dollars was missing, along with some jewelry,
10:07
Speaker 1: allegedly including a pendant necklace that Rhoda's traveling companion, Elaine Shubb,
10:13
Speaker 1: said that Roda had always worn. I know, you guys
10:16
Speaker 1: had said that the bloody towels had been tossed, right,
10:19
Speaker 1: So was there any other probative physical evidence at all.
10:23
Speaker 4: So there were fingernails, scrapeigs, some hairs, things of that nature.
10:28
Speaker 4: There was blood all over the room, so they scraped
10:30
Speaker 4: it from all over the place, the television, the bed,
10:32
Speaker 4: the table, the carpets, the walls, the doors, et cetera.
10:35
Speaker 4: And there should have been direct evidence of whoever was
10:38
Speaker 4: involved in this crime, because you were going in there
10:41
Speaker 4: immediately after the killers.
10:43
Speaker 1: DNA should have at least been under her fingernails. None
10:46
Speaker 1: of it was a match for Elwood. But before any
10:49
Speaker 1: of that was even tested, they started talking to staff
10:52
Speaker 1: and hotel guests, and they were leaning towards the staffer
10:55
Speaker 1: since there was no sign of forced entry. Oh you
10:59
Speaker 1: know how sometimes they focused on the guy just because
11:02
Speaker 1: they have a prior record. You think that's why they
11:04
Speaker 1: focused on you.
11:06
Speaker 3: I really can't say, because it was at least thirty
11:09
Speaker 3: seven of the employees with criminal records, and some of
11:13
Speaker 3: them worse than mine. From the general managerone down.
11:17
Speaker 1: Wow, So there was thirty seven all right, Well, listen,
11:20
Speaker 1: you know, more power to the hotel for giving guys
11:22
Speaker 1: a second chance and women too. Right, So when did
11:25
Speaker 1: you go in for your interview?
11:27
Speaker 3: I think around eleven. I went up to be interviewed.
11:32
Speaker 3: It was Sogeant Lily John Latt, and I'm pretty sure
11:36
Speaker 3: it was Stokes in there there at that time, and
11:39
Speaker 3: they asked me what happened.
11:41
Speaker 1: I wrote my statement, so you were free to go.
11:44
Speaker 1: But eventually they came back to you, seized and search
11:47
Speaker 1: your car, found or allegedly found items in your toolbox
11:50
Speaker 1: that they thought were incriminating. But that didn't happen that
11:53
Speaker 1: Saturday or even the next day.
11:55
Speaker 3: Well, on the Sunday, I went to Lublin and was
12:00
Speaker 3: at Earlene's house, and I had a guy named Jimmy
12:03
Speaker 3: plus my radiate out seem the last person used my tub.
12:07
Speaker 1: Bouts right, and what Jimmy saw or didn't see became
12:11
Speaker 1: very important later on in your case. And we'll get
12:13
Speaker 1: to that in a minute. So, Dave, what made them
12:16
Speaker 1: focus on Elwood.
12:17
Speaker 4: What ultimately got the police and the state to start
12:20
Speaker 4: looking at Elwood, was that he had, as he mentioned earlier,
12:24
Speaker 4: cut his hand that day on the dumpster and then
12:27
Speaker 4: later when he kind of jammed it in the door,
12:29
Speaker 4: and a couple days later went to the hospital because
12:31
Speaker 4: it had gotten quite infected.
12:33
Speaker 1: Since the victim had been beaten to death, one could
12:36
Speaker 1: expect that the assailant's hand might have been injured, and
12:39
Speaker 1: Elwood's infection and hospitalization drew unwanted attention to his coincidental
12:43
Speaker 1: hand injury, so police spoke to his treating physician, a
12:46
Speaker 1: doctor McDonough, and although this was a Strep A infection,
12:50
Speaker 1: there was another bacteria present in the wound called icinella,
12:53
Speaker 1: which is commonly found in human mouths. This spawned of
12:57
Speaker 1: theory that the infection came from wrote in Nathan's teeth. However,
13:02
Speaker 1: according to Elwood, he had licked his own wound soon
13:04
Speaker 1: after his work related injury had occurred. Elwood saw testing
13:08
Speaker 1: for akinella to prove his claim, but was told that
13:11
Speaker 1: his heavy course of antibiotics would have already cleared up
13:14
Speaker 1: any icinella in his own mouth. Further police interviews with
13:18
Speaker 1: hotel staff only served to corroborate Elwood's alibi. However, only
13:23
Speaker 1: Arlene Metcalf could give a solid time and place for Elwood.
13:27
Speaker 1: At around seven point thirty, the belief time of the murder,
13:29
Speaker 1: the pair had gone on break together. It appears the
13:33
Speaker 1: police found this alibi too convenient and brought him in
13:36
Speaker 1: again for questioning on September twelfth.
13:39
Speaker 3: When They questioned me on the twelve. They didn't like
13:42
Speaker 3: my attitude when God told him that you asked me
13:47
Speaker 3: what idea that day? And I told you, And they say, what,
13:51
Speaker 3: you had a master key? And I explained to them,
13:55
Speaker 3: I say, every key in the hotel is a master key.
13:59
Speaker 3: I say, guests don't know they mastered the keys.
14:02
Speaker 1: Wait, so every key was the same for every room.
14:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they just didn't tell no what nuts. I
14:12
Speaker 3: thought it was crazy when I first found out about it.
14:15
Speaker 4: It's kind of funny to think about now thirty years later.
14:18
Speaker 4: But they were all still metal plates for them to
14:20
Speaker 4: cut new keys when a guest would leave with the
14:22
Speaker 4: key or something like that.
14:24
Speaker 5: They just didn't bother. Everything matched.
14:26
Speaker 1: Well, I'm certainly glad it's not the nineties anymore. I mean,
14:29
Speaker 1: I can't get over that. So they already thought that
14:32
Speaker 1: you were their guy, so this probably looked to them
14:35
Speaker 1: like you were trying to deflect attention from yourself. Now.
14:38
Speaker 1: They also brought in your wife, Yvonne, on the twelfth
14:41
Speaker 1: as well.
14:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, on the way to the police station, they told
14:45
Speaker 3: her say, well, by the way, you know your husband
14:48
Speaker 3: was having an affair. She said, well, I knew he
14:51
Speaker 3: wasn't coming home on time, she say, but all men
14:55
Speaker 3: are dogs in a sense, and that just shut that up.
14:58
Speaker 3: She one told me exactly what she told police, and
15:02
Speaker 3: the end of that.
15:03
Speaker 1: Comes, that's a pretty understanding person that you were married to.
15:07
Speaker 3: But did weird talk about that later? We just get
15:10
Speaker 3: through this. She stuck with me.
15:13
Speaker 1: So they were probably telling her that to get her
15:14
Speaker 1: to turn on you. Right, it's not you don't need
15:16
Speaker 1: to be Columbo to figure this out. But Yvonne didn't bite.
15:20
Speaker 1: So they seized your car and initially just found a
15:22
Speaker 1: door chain that they later tried to say was some
15:25
Speaker 1: sort of a weapon. Right, And we'll get to that
15:27
Speaker 1: in a bit. But then, if I'm understanding this correctly,
15:30
Speaker 1: A day or so later, a Blue ash police officer
15:32
Speaker 1: named Michael Bray claimed to have found miss Nathan's pendant
15:35
Speaker 1: in your car. Am I getting this correct?
15:38
Speaker 4: Can I take this because this is a part that
15:40
Speaker 4: this is something I am really like.
15:43
Speaker 5: This bugs me.
15:44
Speaker 2: I wanted, Dave, I want to talk about Yeah.
15:46
Speaker 4: So, so the story with the pendant. So the police
15:49
Speaker 4: went to pawnshops and ostensibly couldn't find this piece of
15:53
Speaker 4: jewelry anywhere. Then they took his car. They impounded it
15:57
Speaker 4: on the twelve. They then had it in their possess
16:00
Speaker 4: for forty eight hours before they took it to the
16:02
Speaker 4: coroner's office, and multiple people searched the car for hours
16:06
Speaker 4: and didn't find anything. And then after that one officer decides, well,
16:11
Speaker 4: I'm going to go back and search again, I guess,
16:15
Speaker 4: or search the one spot that you would think they
16:18
Speaker 4: would want to look for evidence, which would be the trunk,
16:20
Speaker 4: the space where someone might store something. And if Officer
16:24
Speaker 4: Bray is to be believed, they never looked in the
16:26
Speaker 4: trunk before. I don't know. But when this guy is
16:30
Speaker 4: all by himself with no one to corroborate it, he
16:33
Speaker 4: says that he went into the trunk of the car,
16:36
Speaker 4: opened the toolbox, and there it was, just sitting there. Now,
16:39
Speaker 4: did he take a picture of it in the car?
16:41
Speaker 2: No.
16:42
Speaker 4: Did he take a picture of the trunk open with
16:44
Speaker 4: the toolbox in it.
16:45
Speaker 5: No.
16:46
Speaker 4: He took a picture of the pendant in his hand
16:48
Speaker 4: with the car in the background, and then told people,
16:51
Speaker 4: look what I found in the car.
17:04
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18:14
Speaker 4: Another officer flies up to New Jersey or New York
18:18
Speaker 4: with the pendant to meet with Rooda Nathan's family, and
18:21
Speaker 4: all of this is withheld from Melwood at the original trial.
18:24
Speaker 4: But the family looks at it and goes, that's not it.
18:28
Speaker 4: And then they tell the police officers look this pendant
18:30
Speaker 4: though it's a really unique piece of jewelry was made
18:33
Speaker 4: from some family rings, some heirlooms. And then they talk
18:37
Speaker 4: to another family member who we'd just refer to as
18:39
Speaker 4: Uncle Ira, who was Rhoda's brother in law, and he goes, no,
18:44
Speaker 4: that's not correct. I have those family rings. This was
18:47
Speaker 4: just bought in a jewelry store of Brooklyn. So there's
18:49
Speaker 4: evidence that potentially this isn't even the right pendant. There's
18:52
Speaker 4: evidence that it definitely wasn't the unique piece of jewelry
18:55
Speaker 4: that the state says that it was. And there are
18:58
Speaker 4: very very serious ques questions about whether this thing was
19:02
Speaker 4: ever actually found in the car at all. None of
19:05
Speaker 4: that was shared, none of that was provided.
19:07
Speaker 1: So their big smoking gun turned out to be total
19:10
Speaker 1: horseshit and they knew it. I mean, this has to
19:13
Speaker 1: be why they didn't arrest you for over a year. Now.
19:16
Speaker 1: There was one other item that we mentioned in your car,
19:19
Speaker 1: the door chain. What's the story with that?
19:22
Speaker 3: It was a door chain inside of my tub box,
19:26
Speaker 3: and it's not no type of doorchain used in the hotel.
19:30
Speaker 3: The hotail used a boar chain. And the first thing
19:34
Speaker 3: I askeaid, What'd I do? Go out to my car
19:36
Speaker 3: get a tool chain. I need something to whooped this
19:38
Speaker 3: woman with. I say, doesn't it have some type of
19:41
Speaker 3: blood or provensis or something on it? I said, come
19:44
Speaker 3: on with the stop it.
19:45
Speaker 1: So this freaking door chain wasn't even the type that
19:47
Speaker 1: would have been available in the room if somebody even
19:51
Speaker 1: wanted to use that as a weapon, which in itself
19:53
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. This was just some random ass door chain
19:56
Speaker 1: in your car. The whole theory is fucking ridiculous.
20:00
Speaker 5: And that's not even the worst one.
20:01
Speaker 4: One of their theories is they say that whoever it
20:04
Speaker 4: was beat this woman to death, not just with their
20:06
Speaker 4: hands and the chain, but then a walkie talkie and
20:09
Speaker 4: then hit them with multiple objects. In fact, the police
20:12
Speaker 4: officers for months were trying to send images to the
20:17
Speaker 4: FBI to get them to confirm, like, hey, this looks
20:20
Speaker 4: like it could be Elwood shoe, right, and they would
20:23
Speaker 4: come back and be like, no, no, this is not consistent.
20:26
Speaker 5: With Elwood shoe at all.
20:27
Speaker 4: In fact, it looks like it could be X and
20:30
Speaker 4: something that might implicate somebody else, And they'd be like,
20:33
Speaker 4: let's try again, how about the walkie talkie, And they
20:36
Speaker 4: finally got them to say something to the effect of
20:38
Speaker 4: the bruising is potentially consistent with something of that shape,
20:42
Speaker 4: so like a square or a rectangle, but that's as
20:47
Speaker 4: close as they would get. And with that, the state
20:50
Speaker 4: then completely distorted it into aha, a bruise and an
20:55
Speaker 4: item that's so significantly tied together that it's essentially a fingerprint,
21:00
Speaker 4: which is just a lie.
21:01
Speaker 1: I mean, a walkie talkie. How many other hotel staffers
21:04
Speaker 1: is probably haven't.
21:06
Speaker 3: I'm glad you mentioned that we have several departments. Everybody
21:11
Speaker 3: have at walkie talkie. But that morning the police was
21:15
Speaker 3: given information of two people leaving this Nathan's room, one
21:21
Speaker 3: going left, one going right with a walkee Chlkie in
21:25
Speaker 3: his hand, and to the day, I feel that's where
21:27
Speaker 3: they got that theory of a walkie talkie. They never
21:31
Speaker 3: went back to try to find out who these two
21:33
Speaker 3: people was or where that walkie talkie is.
21:37
Speaker 1: To the day, this is just one of many more
21:41
Speaker 1: compelling leads that were flatly ignored by Blue Ash PD
21:45
Speaker 1: in the Hamilton County Prosecutor's office. And we'll reveal more
21:49
Speaker 1: of those leads later when we talk about the discovery
21:51
Speaker 1: that happened in post conviction. It's mind boggling so instead
21:55
Speaker 1: they focused on Elwood Jones, who had access to a
21:58
Speaker 1: walkie talkie and a master key. But as we find out,
22:02
Speaker 1: so did everyone else. He had a criminal record, so
22:06
Speaker 1: did almost everyone else. And this theory was supported by
22:09
Speaker 1: the presence of a bacteria in his injured hand commonly
22:12
Speaker 1: founded you in mouse like canela, and then the pendant
22:15
Speaker 1: which appears to have been planted, as well as not
22:18
Speaker 1: even being the right freaking pendent. This is what they
22:21
Speaker 1: went to a capitol trial with. And it appears that
22:24
Speaker 1: even they believed so little in this theory that they
22:27
Speaker 1: waited for over a year to arrest mister Elwood Jones.
22:32
Speaker 3: That day when I was arrested at the two Blue
22:35
Speaker 3: ass offices, Stokes and Lily, they put me in the
22:40
Speaker 3: car to take me the District one police station to
22:43
Speaker 3: take me in the back, and at that time they
22:46
Speaker 3: show me this picture and say this is what we
22:50
Speaker 3: found in your car. And I'm looking and I told me,
22:53
Speaker 3: I don't know where did penman come from? And you
22:55
Speaker 3: found it in there? You put it in there. At
22:58
Speaker 3: that time, Stokes get up and go out, said to
23:01
Speaker 3: do and talk on the phone, and he said he
23:04
Speaker 3: didn't bite. I don't know what he meant by at
23:07
Speaker 3: who he was talking to on the phone, he said
23:10
Speaker 3: he didn't bite, And next I know they was taking
23:13
Speaker 3: me on to the Justice and that they booked me in.
23:17
Speaker 1: He didn't bite. Wow, I mean, it seems like they
23:21
Speaker 1: thought their lie would make you cave and confess, And
23:24
Speaker 1: it might have worked on a man who was actually guilty,
23:27
Speaker 1: but it still wasn't you. And even with Jimmy or
23:30
Speaker 1: a mechanic corroborated that this pandem was not in the
23:33
Speaker 1: damn toolbox. Along with so much Brady material that we're
23:36
Speaker 1: going to get to in a bit. The prosecutors Mark
23:39
Speaker 1: Pete Meyer and Seth Tieger still went ahead to trial,
23:43
Speaker 1: seeking the death penalty, by the way, on this bullshit
23:45
Speaker 1: evidence in November of ninety six, in front of Judge
23:49
Speaker 1: Ralph Winkler. And the case was purely circumstantial evidence.
23:53
Speaker 4: So they say, but that's okay, because circumstantial evidence is
23:57
Speaker 4: even better than direct.
23:58
Speaker 1: Evidence, which no, well it is obviously not a third
24:02
Speaker 1: grader can tell you that. But anyway, they presented their
24:06
Speaker 1: theory that Elwood allegedly waited for a lane shove and
24:10
Speaker 1: Joe Coplan to leave room to thirty seven before entering
24:14
Speaker 1: being discovered by Rhoda Nathan, punching her teeth out and
24:18
Speaker 1: fatally beating her to death, and finally stealing five hundred
24:21
Speaker 1: dollars as well as jewelry, including this alleged signature pendant.
24:26
Speaker 1: So what did they present to support this theory?
24:28
Speaker 4: They told the jerry that Ellwood was in the hotel
24:31
Speaker 4: that day, that he was on the second floor, that
24:33
Speaker 4: he had a master key, and that they purportedly found
24:37
Speaker 4: this pendant in his car, and that he had an
24:39
Speaker 4: infection in his hand. And the narrative that the state
24:43
Speaker 4: presented was that it was an Icinella Corridon's infection, and
24:48
Speaker 4: in fact that's not what it was.
24:49
Speaker 5: There happened to be Kinella in.
24:51
Speaker 1: The cut right, It was a strip a infection.
24:54
Speaker 4: And this doctor, doctor McDonough, who was a hand surgeon
24:57
Speaker 4: with no expertise at all in microbiology or in infectious diseases,
25:04
Speaker 4: opined that the only way that Ellwood could have gotten
25:07
Speaker 4: this was by punching somebody in the mouth, which is
25:10
Speaker 4: just objectively.
25:11
Speaker 1: False, but that's where the broken teeth come into it.
25:14
Speaker 1: They also tried to draw connections between miss Nathan's injuries
25:17
Speaker 1: and objects that might have been available to Elwood, but
25:20
Speaker 1: really they were available to any hotel employee, and there
25:24
Speaker 1: were dozens and dozens of them.
25:26
Speaker 4: Their absolute junk forensics suggests that they were able to
25:31
Speaker 4: match up one of the bruises with the bottom of
25:33
Speaker 4: a walkie talkie and the scratches. The particular scratches on
25:37
Speaker 4: the bottom of the walkie talkie can be found in
25:41
Speaker 4: the bruises. It's completely fabricated. They took pictures of Miss
25:45
Speaker 4: Nathan's body during the autopsy and effectively skewed the pictures
25:50
Speaker 4: and admitted that they manipulated the pictures. They said in
25:54
Speaker 4: order to match a scale, and they used items such
25:57
Speaker 4: as the walkie talkie and made that the scale so
26:01
Speaker 4: that when they were distorting the picture, they distorted it
26:05
Speaker 4: to fit the size of the walkie talkie and what
26:08
Speaker 4: they were actually told. After repeated attempts of submitting this
26:11
Speaker 4: evidence to the FBI and the FBI coming back and saying, nose,
26:15
Speaker 4: this is not consistent with this bruising pattern at all. Finally,
26:19
Speaker 4: after manipulating the pictures, the FBI came back and said,
26:23
Speaker 4: this is theoretically consistent with something sort of of that shape,
26:27
Speaker 4: but they did not say, yes, we can match up
26:30
Speaker 4: the scratches on the bottom of this wakie talkie so
26:34
Speaker 4: that it's like a fingerprint.
26:35
Speaker 1: They inexplicably then put four experts on the stand who
26:38
Speaker 1: would not corroborate their nonsensical weapons theory. But the state
26:42
Speaker 1: still had this random pendent that the jury was led
26:46
Speaker 1: to believe was the real McCoy, as well as doctor
26:49
Speaker 1: McDonald's erroneous testimony about Ikinella Ell. Would please tell me
26:54
Speaker 1: that your attorneys presented something anything to combat McDonough.
26:59
Speaker 3: I mean, did they The expert day had he couldn't
27:02
Speaker 3: testify in person because he had some other arrangements, so
27:07
Speaker 3: they did it by video.
27:09
Speaker 2: The way it played out is you don't have any
27:11
Speaker 2: way then once the state's expert testifies to call your
27:15
Speaker 2: doctor and say, hey, this is what he just said.
27:18
Speaker 2: What's your answer to that?
27:19
Speaker 1: So this whole video testimony was never going to work,
27:22
Speaker 1: let's face it. And this expert was paid for, by
27:25
Speaker 1: the way, which makes it even a little more insane.
27:28
Speaker 1: So did they do anything else?
27:30
Speaker 3: Julias Sanks was the leading attorney then, and he actually
27:34
Speaker 3: said some about my criminal record when I've still was
27:39
Speaker 3: lost to say I didn't even take the stand. Why
27:41
Speaker 3: would you put that in there?
27:43
Speaker 1: Ineffective assistance of counsel doesn't even begin to cover this.
27:47
Speaker 1: So the I Cainela evidence and dependent both total horseship
27:51
Speaker 1: were never successfully impeached. And then your own attorney brought
27:54
Speaker 1: up your criminal record, leaving it wide open for the prosecutors.
27:58
Speaker 3: The prosecutor say that I was the only employed with
28:03
Speaker 3: a criminal record, And at that time I knew it
28:06
Speaker 3: was some criminals in there. I didn't know as many
28:09
Speaker 3: as I found out mater when I got the documents,
28:13
Speaker 3: thirty seven people in there.
28:14
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not a misrepresentation that they the jury.
28:17
Speaker 1: That's just a straight out lie, right, I mean, how
28:20
Speaker 1: could they? How could the jury have ever gotten it
28:22
Speaker 1: right when they're being led down this crazy.
28:24
Speaker 3: Path doing post conviction a few affter Davids was taken
28:28
Speaker 3: to the jury. They said they noticed that I had
28:31
Speaker 3: a criminal record, so what make them think that I
28:34
Speaker 3: didn't commit this crime? And they came back in there
28:38
Speaker 3: and they said guilty and recommended death. Judge Winkler's got
28:44
Speaker 3: ready to send this to me, asked me, did I
28:46
Speaker 3: have anything to say? And I say I do? I say,
28:50
Speaker 3: yesterday Johanna, I say, even you in this courtroom offered
28:54
Speaker 3: me a man's laughter. I say, today, you want to
28:58
Speaker 3: kill me, I said, you're telling me this is a
29:02
Speaker 3: court My daily routine was get up in the morning
29:22
Speaker 3: at four, take my shower where I took a bath
29:25
Speaker 3: in myself until they changed over and put showers on
29:30
Speaker 3: the range.
29:31
Speaker 1: And when you say take a bath in yourself, what
29:33
Speaker 1: do you mean by that?
29:34
Speaker 3: I wash up in my saint.
29:36
Speaker 1: Right, that's a bird bath, right, this bird bath.
29:39
Speaker 3: Well that's the best you could do. I got them
29:41
Speaker 3: washed up, and I saved my little prayer and I
29:44
Speaker 3: prepair my day. Six o'clock I would come out. Can
29:48
Speaker 3: you describe the cell small self? About eight by ten.
29:52
Speaker 3: You've got a bed in there, sank a tilet you
29:55
Speaker 3: can afford. You can have a TV typewriter in a radio,
30:00
Speaker 3: and that's about it.
30:01
Speaker 1: So you're pretty much living in a closet.
30:04
Speaker 3: In the cave is a filthy cave.
30:07
Speaker 1: And of the men that you serve time with in
30:10
Speaker 1: there was there one who made a you know, an
30:14
Speaker 1: impression on you that that helped you get through this
30:18
Speaker 1: incredible ordeal.
30:20
Speaker 3: Well, yes, he's off death row now too. De Ambrosil
30:24
Speaker 3: was best good friends.
30:26
Speaker 1: We spoke with Joe on the show. Josie Ambrosio. What
30:29
Speaker 1: an incredibly inspiring guy and what a horrible, horrible story.
30:33
Speaker 1: But he's come through it and he seems to be
30:36
Speaker 1: doing as well as he possibly could be doing under
30:39
Speaker 1: the circumstances. So, Joe, if you're listening, we're thinking about
30:42
Speaker 1: you and talking about you too. So how did you
30:44
Speaker 1: find the strength, because I'm sure there are other guys
30:47
Speaker 1: who just go crazy in that situation and lose their
30:50
Speaker 1: mind and end up killing themselves or doing you know.
30:52
Speaker 3: I've seen several guys on death ro commit suicide right
30:57
Speaker 3: there in the same part with the three guys I
31:00
Speaker 3: kept theirself and others. But I think what the main
31:04
Speaker 3: thing W gave me scrapt I knew in my heart
31:08
Speaker 3: I did nothing wrong. I lost the sister, I lost
31:11
Speaker 3: my wife, I lost several friends, my mother passed, and
31:16
Speaker 3: my father and all their uncles. And only thing that
31:20
Speaker 3: gives me hope and has gave me is to clear
31:23
Speaker 3: my name. And I could look up and tell my
31:26
Speaker 3: mother she can rest in peace. I understand Miss Nathan
31:30
Speaker 3: is dead and I'm sorry. I feel sorry for her family,
31:34
Speaker 3: but I'm also a victim in this case, and I
31:39
Speaker 3: was determined that I spent day in and day out
31:43
Speaker 3: trying to prove my anderson. I wrote letters every day.
31:48
Speaker 3: I had one thing on my plate is to get
31:51
Speaker 3: my life back.
31:53
Speaker 1: And now here you are.
31:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm still having got it fully back. That's
31:57
Speaker 3: all I want is my life back, and give me
32:00
Speaker 3: what little I had, and I'm happy and prosecuting them
32:04
Speaker 3: don't want to do the right thing.
32:05
Speaker 1: So tell us a bit about how you got here
32:08
Speaker 1: and what's still left. Starting with your direct appeal they raised.
32:11
Speaker 3: I think it was about I want to say about
32:14
Speaker 3: thirty two heirs. Some was in effected system new council.
32:18
Speaker 3: We were denied that all through state court. It wasn't
32:22
Speaker 3: withholding evidence until we got in the federal courts Brady validation.
32:27
Speaker 1: And I think that was about two thousand and five
32:29
Speaker 1: when your case was moved to the federal Public Defenders.
32:32
Speaker 3: They fell for a discovery in the federal courts and
32:35
Speaker 3: granted me saying that the prosecutor's police department and any
32:39
Speaker 3: agency who involved in this case had to turn over
32:42
Speaker 3: their records. As I was going through it, I begin
32:46
Speaker 3: to see things that I've never seen herd.
32:49
Speaker 2: In the original discovery. I don't remember the exact number
32:52
Speaker 2: of pages, like two hundred and eighty six pages, something
32:54
Speaker 2: like that. I think there's over forty two hundred pages
32:58
Speaker 2: that they got in federal habeas and discovery. The questionnaires
33:03
Speaker 2: that were sent to all the hotel guests, and I
33:05
Speaker 2: think there were sixteen or seventeen of them that had
33:09
Speaker 2: i'll say good investigative leads.
33:11
Speaker 3: The first thing I came across was the statement of
33:14
Speaker 3: two hotel employees, Dmitz Williams and Norman Ryan told the
33:20
Speaker 3: police they wouldness two guys coming out of that room,
33:24
Speaker 3: a black guy and the white guy, one going left,
33:26
Speaker 3: one going right. The black guy when he came out,
33:29
Speaker 3: he had a radio in his head. He was going left.
33:32
Speaker 3: They gave him a full description of what they had
33:35
Speaker 3: on both of them, and they toldly ignored. And there's
33:39
Speaker 3: nothing else in the files where the police did any
33:42
Speaker 3: follow up. Even the prosecuted.
33:45
Speaker 4: There were a ton of tidbits will say that they learned,
33:48
Speaker 4: whether it was from interviewing staff about keys or things
33:52
Speaker 4: like that, that they just never ever followed up on. Obviously,
33:55
Speaker 4: the Anthony Lackey information Anthony Lackett was off on the
33:59
Speaker 4: day that this happened, but a shuttle driver who drove
34:03
Speaker 4: employees to and from an employee parking lot remember taking
34:06
Speaker 4: him back to his car that morning, and when he
34:09
Speaker 4: was interviewed by police, he denied being there. It was
34:12
Speaker 4: also reported that later that day he and his girlfriend
34:16
Speaker 4: went out shopping and he was suddenly flushed with cash,
34:19
Speaker 4: which is significant because reportedly stolen from the hotel rooms
34:23
Speaker 4: five hundred dollars in cash that was never recovered.
34:25
Speaker 2: Oh and mister Lackey also had an extensive criminal record,
34:28
Speaker 2: a violent records from assault of behavior in there.
34:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is what I meant earlier about more
34:34
Speaker 1: compelling leads. This discovery also revealed that the Blue Ash
34:38
Speaker 1: Police Department had gone to New York and New Jersey
34:40
Speaker 1: and spoken with the family about the pendant, which unraveled
34:44
Speaker 1: that lie as well. There was so much Brady material
34:46
Speaker 1: with health here that it's hard to even keep track,
34:49
Speaker 1: But there are two more that are huge.
34:52
Speaker 2: The fact that wrote A. Nathan had hepatitis was not
34:55
Speaker 2: disclosed pre trial.
34:56
Speaker 4: Elwood knew that they had taken blood for test, but
35:00
Speaker 4: they didn't tell him what they were testing it for.
35:03
Speaker 4: And they didn't ever report back that he had a
35:06
Speaker 4: negative hepatitis B result, where Rodeon Nathan had a positive result.
35:11
Speaker 4: And that's really important because, I mean, the reason EMTs
35:15
Speaker 4: wear rubber gloves is because the risk of infection from
35:18
Speaker 4: hepatitis B because it is so infectious.
35:21
Speaker 1: So while he could have given himself like canella from
35:23
Speaker 1: licking his own injured hand, It's almost certain that Elwood
35:26
Speaker 1: would have tested positive for hepatitis B had he been
35:29
Speaker 1: the assailant. So the Blue Ash Police Department, Mark Pete Meyer,
35:32
Speaker 1: Seth Tiger, they all had scientific evidence clearing Elwood all
35:37
Speaker 1: the way back on September fifteenth, nineteen ninety four, when
35:40
Speaker 1: it really counted. And here we are, almost thirty years later,
35:43
Speaker 1: still trying to unravel this injustice. Oh wait, there's more.
35:48
Speaker 1: I know you're probably going no.
35:50
Speaker 4: No more.
35:51
Speaker 1: I can't take it. I can't take it. But hang
35:53
Speaker 1: in there. They had another lead before a trial from
35:57
Speaker 1: a woman named Dolores Suggs, which didn't come to light,
36:00
Speaker 1: probably because they kept it in the dark until decades later.
36:04
Speaker 3: Yes, that was in two thousand and sixteen. I had
36:07
Speaker 3: an email from Deloris Sugg's daughter Terror and she told
36:12
Speaker 3: me that her mother told her about. She was in
36:15
Speaker 3: jail and a woman named Linda Reed told her that
36:19
Speaker 3: her husband had killed this woman and framed a black man.
36:23
Speaker 4: Delores Sugs is somebody who spent a very short period
36:26
Speaker 4: of time in the Hamilton County Justice Center in nineteen
36:30
Speaker 4: ninety five, and she was in there with Linda Reid,
36:34
Speaker 4: who confided to Dolores Suggs that Linda's husband, Earl, a white,
36:40
Speaker 4: red haired man from Blue Ash, had confessed to killing
36:44
Speaker 4: somebody in the Embassy Suites in Blue Ash and framing
36:47
Speaker 4: a black man. And she asked Dolores to do something
36:51
Speaker 4: about it when she got out, and Dolores was told
36:54
Speaker 4: by the Blue Ash police this is a close case,
36:57
Speaker 4: and even though she was reporting on a pair confession,
37:01
Speaker 4: they just did nothing with it.
37:02
Speaker 1: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, But I read that
37:04
Speaker 1: Earle Read was quite cozy with the Blue Ash Police department.
37:08
Speaker 4: He reportedly would get up in the morning and have
37:11
Speaker 4: coffee with the Blue Ash Police department. And there were
37:14
Speaker 4: a number of instances where I believe it's well documented
37:17
Speaker 4: he abused Linda Read. And there is a narrative that's
37:21
Speaker 4: part of the record here where severely beat her even
37:25
Speaker 4: after they were divorced or separated, to the point that
37:29
Speaker 4: she was in a medical facility and he was not
37:32
Speaker 4: allowed to come and visit her anymore. Now, I want
37:34
Speaker 4: to be very clear, we don't know whether Earle did it,
37:39
Speaker 4: and I think that there are, as I said, a
37:41
Speaker 4: number of other people in the records that are equally
37:45
Speaker 4: or potentially more plausible than Earle. But there are other
37:49
Speaker 4: facts that do kind of make the suggestion that Earle
37:51
Speaker 4: was there. For example, Robin Budd was a witness who
37:54
Speaker 4: said that the morning of the murder, at basically the
37:57
Speaker 4: exact same time that the murder apparently took place, she
38:00
Speaker 4: saw a man who sort of meets the Earl's description
38:04
Speaker 4: bolt from the hotel, run across the parking lot and
38:07
Speaker 4: into the woods in the same direction to where Earl
38:10
Speaker 4: Reed's house was like half a mile away. But the
38:14
Speaker 4: real significance of Earl Reid and the Dolores Suggs tip
38:19
Speaker 4: isn't so much that, aha, we've now found the killer.
38:24
Speaker 4: It's the blue Ash police apartment in the Hamilton County
38:27
Speaker 4: Prosecutor's Office was so polluted by cognitive bias and confirmation
38:33
Speaker 4: bias and tunnel vision that They didn't even bother to
38:37
Speaker 4: look into this. Before Elwood had been convicted, they had
38:40
Speaker 4: him in custody and they just went someone confessed to this, whatever,
38:44
Speaker 4: we've got our man, and that's true. Throughout there are
38:47
Speaker 4: hundreds of pages of records where people are identifying other
38:51
Speaker 4: potential suspects. Many of those records are from independent sources
38:55
Speaker 4: that fit together with each other and really kind of
38:58
Speaker 4: tell a narrative that it's like, gosh, I think that
39:00
Speaker 4: is a person that really could have been and it's
39:02
Speaker 4: definitely not Elwood, and they conceded they never looked at it.
39:06
Speaker 4: The Bluish Police par never looked into any of it.
39:10
Speaker 1: All of this information, the bevy of alternative and more
39:13
Speaker 1: likely suspects, including Earl Reid, Anthony Lackey, these two mystery men,
39:17
Speaker 1: as well as Dependent not being dependent, never mind it
39:20
Speaker 1: likely being a totally fabricated piece of evidence in the
39:23
Speaker 1: first place, and the irreconcilable hepatitis B test results. This
39:27
Speaker 1: was all information that they had at the time of trial.
39:30
Speaker 1: It was not shared with the defense. However, from a
39:33
Speaker 1: post conviction litigation standpoint, the problem with these discoveries is
39:36
Speaker 1: that they happened over time and were never litigated as
39:39
Speaker 1: a whole, so the twenty nineteen motion for a new
39:42
Speaker 1: trial was based solely on the alleged Earl Reid confession.
39:45
Speaker 1: But eventually Judge Winkler's successor, Judge Etna Cooper, granted a hearing.
39:49
Speaker 1: Jay was already involved, and then came Dave Hein from Vori's,
39:53
Speaker 1: one of the most widely respected law firms in the country.
39:57
Speaker 4: So Jay was that at that point, working with the
39:59
Speaker 4: Federal Public Defenders, they filed the motion for a new trial.
40:02
Speaker 4: Judge Cooper said, yep, we're going to give you a
40:04
Speaker 4: hearing on it.
40:05
Speaker 1: And finally all this Brady material would be heard altogether. Now,
40:08
Speaker 1: an election in twenty twenty brought in Judge Wendy Cross,
40:11
Speaker 1: and oddly enough, almost thirty years later, Elwood was facing
40:15
Speaker 1: Seth Tiger again. What stuck out the most about this.
40:18
Speaker 2: Hearing standing up in a courtroom and calling a prosecutor
40:21
Speaker 2: by name Mark Pete Meyer a liar, outright line to
40:25
Speaker 2: put somebody on death row. That doesn't happen every day,
40:28
Speaker 2: no way. It really got under Seth Tiger's skin. It
40:32
Speaker 2: really bothered him, and I'm kind of glad it did.
40:35
Speaker 2: But it was for the wrong reason. He didn't have
40:37
Speaker 2: the ability to defend his his friend. And I think
40:40
Speaker 2: to me, what was overall remarkable about it the lack
40:44
Speaker 2: of any meaningful response from the prosecutor from a litigation standpoint.
40:49
Speaker 2: We put on doctor Burdett to talk about the hepatitis.
40:52
Speaker 2: We were specifically told by the judge before the hearing started,
40:56
Speaker 2: we are not going to relitigate ikinella. Fine. The first
41:00
Speaker 2: question out of the prosecutor's mouth cross examining doctor Burdett
41:04
Speaker 2: was about ikinella. We were doing literally almost doing somersaults
41:08
Speaker 2: at the table when he opened the door, because David
41:10
Speaker 2: prepared the witness and drove a truck through that door
41:14
Speaker 2: after that, and they put on no meaningful rebuttal to
41:17
Speaker 2: anything that we put on. They didn't have anybody come
41:20
Speaker 2: in and say, hey, the blue ash investigation was fine.
41:22
Speaker 2: They didn't have anybody come in and say, oh, doctor
41:24
Speaker 2: Burdet's wrong. Hepatitis bees not that infectious. They did nothing,
41:28
Speaker 2: And I think it's because of the mindset in Hamilton
41:30
Speaker 2: County has been for so long. We don't need to
41:32
Speaker 2: the judge's going to give it to us. Judge Winkler
41:35
Speaker 2: was a former prosecutor. Judge Winkler's sons were both prosecutors.
41:38
Speaker 2: Now they're judges. Prosecutors in robes is the daily norm
41:42
Speaker 2: down here for us. They didn't put on anything to
41:44
Speaker 2: justify why he should not get a new trial.
41:47
Speaker 1: And so on December twentieth, twenty twenty two, Elwood who
41:50
Speaker 1: were finally granted a new trial, and amazingly he got
41:54
Speaker 1: a bond set and were released on January fourteenth of
41:59
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three.
42:00
Speaker 3: I had been turned down so many times in the
42:03
Speaker 3: court that I was totally lost for words that day.
42:08
Speaker 3: It's the thing about death penalty cases. People just don't
42:13
Speaker 3: want to touch them or do the right thing. I
42:16
Speaker 3: was totally shocked, but I was so thankful I got out.
42:20
Speaker 3: I did the two things I said I was going
42:22
Speaker 3: to do. I was going to kiss the ground, and
42:25
Speaker 3: I went to the cemetery to see my mother and
42:27
Speaker 3: tell us that you rest of peace. So and from
42:33
Speaker 3: that day, I'm still frightened.
42:35
Speaker 4: The state is kind of doing everything that they can
42:38
Speaker 4: at this point too. It seems like to ignore reality.
42:41
Speaker 4: They've filed a petition for rid of prohibition, multiple appeals
42:45
Speaker 4: they've all been denied. It seems like they're doing everything
42:48
Speaker 4: they can to avoid having any kind of honest evaluation
42:52
Speaker 4: of the actual evidence, and they still want to litigate
42:56
Speaker 4: this and hold on to the conviction that they obtained
42:59
Speaker 4: in the nineties with only a tiny sliver of the evidence.
43:03
Speaker 1: And I understand that if this does go to TRILI,
43:05
Speaker 1: you'll be facing Mark Pete Myer and Seth Tiger again,
43:08
Speaker 1: potentially in February twenty twenty four. So despite the obvious
43:12
Speaker 1: and sane choice in front of them, this is not
43:15
Speaker 1: one hundred percent over. Is there anything our audience can
43:18
Speaker 1: do to help.
43:19
Speaker 2: Mark Pete Prior refers to people who support Elwood as his.
43:22
Speaker 1: Groupies, Well, sign me up for that.
43:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll wear that badge. I think awareness let Hamley
43:28
Speaker 2: County Prosecutor's office know that it's being watched, and Melissa
43:33
Speaker 2: Powers is now the Hamley County Prosecutor. Maybe they can
43:35
Speaker 2: reach out to her by email, letter, call and leave
43:39
Speaker 2: a message and follow up and ask her what she's
43:41
Speaker 2: going to do to write this wrong. Maybe if she
43:43
Speaker 2: knows people are watching and people have an interest, that
43:46
Speaker 2: she can do the right thing and dismiss it.
43:48
Speaker 1: So we'll have action steps of the bio. And now
43:50
Speaker 1: that brings us to my favorite part of the show,
43:52
Speaker 1: closing arguments. It works like this, I'm going to thank
43:55
Speaker 1: each of you again for sharing this incredible, incredible story,
43:59
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to kick back in my chair,
44:02
Speaker 1: turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, and just
44:04
Speaker 1: listen to anything else you have to say. So, Dave,
44:08
Speaker 1: why don't you go first? Then Jay and then ell
44:11
Speaker 1: would take us off into the sunset.
44:14
Speaker 4: It's important that people understand that although Ellwood has very
44:17
Speaker 4: graciously given Jay and I a lot of credit for this,
44:21
Speaker 4: there are a lot of.
44:22
Speaker 5: People who have been involved over the years.
44:24
Speaker 4: There's an entire unit of people at the Federal Public
44:27
Speaker 4: Defender's Office, the Capitol Habeas unit from Aaron Barnhart, Bridget Kennedy,
44:32
Speaker 4: tc Chansky. I have two colleagues at VORICE, Emily Saint
44:35
Speaker 4: Cyr and Zach Hollinger. You've got Dolores Suggs and Tierra Suggs,
44:39
Speaker 4: two experts, Doctor Burdett and Beth Moore. And you've got
44:42
Speaker 4: Judge Cross, who, frankly, I think a different judge in
44:46
Speaker 4: this situation would have caved to the political pressure. You
44:49
Speaker 4: had the prosecutor going on local radio stations before a
44:53
Speaker 4: decision had been made, calling her a crazy liberal judge, etc.
44:57
Speaker 5: Etc.
44:58
Speaker 4: And trying to make this a political issue. And I
45:00
Speaker 4: think she sat there and just looked at the evidence
45:04
Speaker 4: and said, politics be damned. I need to make the
45:07
Speaker 4: decision that is just. And finally, to the prosecutors, I'm
45:13
Speaker 4: a little bit more cautiously optimistic that the new prosecutor
45:17
Speaker 4: will take a look at this.
45:18
Speaker 5: Please take a look at this.
45:20
Speaker 4: Let's have a conversation, let's talk about the evidence, because
45:24
Speaker 4: there's absolutely no reason to be having a second trial.
45:26
Speaker 2: I won't repeat a lot of what Dave said because
45:28
Speaker 2: I agree with it, but I think the takeaway from this,
45:31
Speaker 2: I think you're going to find this as a common
45:33
Speaker 2: thread through the work that you do. You can guarantee
45:36
Speaker 2: that you will never commit a crime. You can in
45:39
Speaker 2: no way guarantee you won't be accused of committing a crime.
45:42
Speaker 2: And when you're accused and it's your day in the box,
45:46
Speaker 2: you want the system to work the way the system
45:48
Speaker 2: is supposed to work. You want people to follow the rules.
45:50
Speaker 2: You want police to do the investigation and prosecutors to
45:53
Speaker 2: do their job and disclose all the evidence. And right
45:57
Speaker 2: now in Hamilton County, honestly, in general terms, that doesn't happen.
46:01
Speaker 2: And so a lot of people can look at this
46:03
Speaker 2: particular case or any of the other cases that I
46:06
Speaker 2: know you've you've profiled, and go, well, that would never
46:08
Speaker 2: happen to me. Don't count on it because you cannot
46:11
Speaker 2: guarantee you won't be accused someday. Urge people to get involved,
46:15
Speaker 2: don't stay silent, and speak up.
46:17
Speaker 3: I'm very thankful for everyone who took their time, including you,
46:22
Speaker 3: to help add this and I'm hoping that I could
46:27
Speaker 3: have my little life back. And I would like to
46:29
Speaker 3: see the prosecutors be held accountable and two the whole
46:34
Speaker 3: prosecutors accountable for what they do to take in the
46:38
Speaker 3: man's life a woman's life. They gonna continue that need
46:43
Speaker 3: to change if you're going to bring change this system.
46:53
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I want to
46:56
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor hall Any, Chelsea, Maia Robinson,
47:00
Speaker 1: Jeff Clyburn and Kevin Warns. The music in this production
47:04
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
47:07
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
47:11
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
47:15
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction as well as at Lava for Good. On
47:18
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on Instagram
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Speaker 1: at it's Jason Vlahm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of
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Speaker 1: Lava for Good podcasts and association with Signal Company Number
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Speaker 1: one