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Happy Hour #230: The (Queer) Miscommunication Trope · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told your production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: another edition of Happy Hour. As always, if you choose
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to drink or whatever you're choosing to do, please do
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: so responsibly. Samantha, are you choosing to drink or do
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: anything responsibly?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm always responsible, maybe scattered, yes, but with good intent.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I'm drinking my bubble water as pretty usual.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: What about you. I am drinking a glass of rose today.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I'm in a weird spot where I feel I'm cold,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: but I'm also hot. I don't know what's going on
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: with my body, which we are going to talk about
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: episode at a little bit. Yes, before we get into
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the episode, just a reminder that Smith and I with
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: our partners at Virgin Voyages, are going on a voyage.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is a trip that we're taking stuff at sea,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: a five night adult only trip October second through seventh,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty sixth, this very year, and it's gonna be
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: so fun. And we're going from New York to Bermuda
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: some other stuff. Podcasts will be there, stuff you should know,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. And we will
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: be doing podcasts that you can participate in and see
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: us record and we're going to be doing some other
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: events and we'll be out and about so you can
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: catch up with us and have fun with us, and
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: we would love to see you there. You can get
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: your ticket at Virgin worages dot com slash stuff. So
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: for today's topic, I'm continuing my ongoing look at some
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: of the conversations that came out after my queerbaiting experience.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I will say that I don't think I'm going to
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: get too much into anything, but we are talking about
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  Speaker 1: kind of internalized hatred and homophobia. So if that's just
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: not something you want to deal with today, totally understandable.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: But the topic at hand is the miscommunication trope and
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  Speaker 1: how it hits differently when people in question, or at
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: least one of them, is queer and closeted specifically closeted note.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: A miscommunication trope is typically used in romantic relationships, but
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: any relationship can have miscommunication. It can happen anywhere, so
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: it's not just romantic. It can rear it's often very
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: frustrating head and that's why I feel like the advice
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  Speaker 1: is always in relationships, communication is key, but a lot
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: of us know that and still don't do it. But anyway,
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  Speaker 1: also related, something else on my list that I don't
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  Speaker 1: think we're going to do an episode on is the
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: romantic interruption trope. And that's when you know they're finally
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  Speaker 1: about to like they're communicating out last, but before the
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  Speaker 1: truthful revelation can be said, they are rudely and suddenly interrupted.
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  Speaker 1: I don't think there's enough for an episode on it.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe in a future halfy hour I will look
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: into the interruption trope. Another one that I probably won't
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: as I was going down my list, probably won't be
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: an episode, but I just want you all to know
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: that it was on the list is the Queer Reading
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of Dead Poet Society. It's been forever since I have
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: seen Dead Poet Society, and now I'm thinking I need
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: to rewatch it and see what I think.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Wait, because they're saying there's queer baiting in it, or
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  Speaker 2: they're saying like there's.
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  Speaker 1: No just that a lot of people read it as queer.
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say queer baiting, okay, but that's why I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: need to see it, because it's all male school, and
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  Speaker 1: I think it's taught in Neil. The two characters taught
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  Speaker 1: in Neil Yeah are queer coded. Really, but I'm gonna
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  Speaker 1: have to I can't say I'm gonna have to rewatch
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: it in a long time. Then I'll I'll give a verdict.
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  Speaker 1: I shall do it all right. So we're not talking
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  Speaker 1: about that today. Today we are talking about the miscommunication trope,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: which is pretty much what it sounds like. So this
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  Speaker 1: is from BookRiot dot com. The miscommunication trope, for those
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  Speaker 1: who may be unfamiliar with the term, describes when characters
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  Speaker 1: interact with each other in some way but miss saying
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  Speaker 1: something which would very likely and often very easily, so
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: whatever misunderstanding they're now facing. Sometimes characters will say the
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  Speaker 1: wrong things in all the wrong ways, or a character
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  Speaker 1: will understand something and the complete opposite way of what
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  Speaker 1: was meant. This miscommunication becomes a big part of the plot,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes the only thing holding the story together, delaying its resolution.
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  Speaker 1: So that's I think an important part of this definition
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  Speaker 1: is that it can manifest in a couple of ways.
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  Speaker 1: So it can be they're just not communicating with each other,
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  Speaker 1: but it can be that they're saying the complete wrong things,
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  Speaker 1: or they're misinterpreting what the other person is saying. There's
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  Speaker 1: usually a lot of assumption going on, like you assume
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  Speaker 1: you know what the other person is thinking and feeling,
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  Speaker 1: but they never actually say it, and maybe you're too
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  Speaker 1: afraid to ask them directly because you think you know
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  Speaker 1: the answer and it's not the answer that you want.
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  Speaker 1: There is a long history of this trope, like every
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  Speaker 1: long history. When I was looking it up, there is
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  Speaker 1: a lot of frustration around it too. A lot of
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  Speaker 1: people don't like it, especially when it never gets resolved
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  Speaker 1: a lot. I think in a lot of things it
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  Speaker 1: does get resolved, and so at least the frustration pays
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  Speaker 1: off in that way, but sometimes it does not, and
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  Speaker 1: it is it makes you want to throw something. It
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  Speaker 1: really really does if you had just talked to.
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  Speaker 2: Each I think about that often, not necessarily in the
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: queer abaiting thought, but like when I see it kjrama
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  Speaker 2: and that's the main I'm like, oh my god, that's
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  Speaker 2: just irritating.
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  Speaker 1: Why are you Like stop?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, I saw something and that makes me not want
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  Speaker 2: to say it, and I'm like, oh, just tell them why.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes, it was a very epic Irol role listener.
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  Speaker 1: So I think some of the modern irritation with it
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  Speaker 1: is that it's frustrating. It's really frustrating. It is usually
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  Speaker 1: to delay the relationship in question or resolving conflicts or
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  Speaker 1: anything like that. So I was reading an article about that,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and it was saying like people nowadays would prefer real
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  Speaker 1: conflict with direct communication as opposed to construed conflicts that
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  Speaker 1: doesn't have communication and just the change in audience taste,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: which makes sense to me, I'm not sure. I would
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  Speaker 1: love to see an example, to see some side by
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: side examples of what this author meant. But I get
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  Speaker 1: their point completely because the miscommunication trope can feel like empty.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I guess they're not actually talking to each other, whereas
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  Speaker 1: if they were and still having real conflict and then
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  Speaker 1: resolving them that, according to this author, would be a
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  Speaker 1: more fulfilling story. So there's that. When it comes to
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the queer aspects, and Samantha knows this, I have been
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: reading a lot of stuff, this queer stuff, fan fiction,
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  Speaker 1: largely that takes place in the eighties with closeted queer
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  Speaker 1: characters who are terrified of coming out because you know,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the eighties was when HIV aids. It wasn't really accepted
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  Speaker 1: to be queer. It was very dangerous to be openly queer,
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  Speaker 1: and these characters are grappling with self hatred and internalized homophobia,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes compet compulsory heterosexuality, and it's just a really painful
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  Speaker 1: thing to read. It strikes me when I read it
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  Speaker 1: how differently the miscommunication trope hits because it's frustrating, but
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: it's also heart breaking. It's really heartbreaking because it's operating
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: on a belief that something is wrong with you, out
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: of self hatred, out of wanting to protect yourself and
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the other person, of believing that the other person could
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: not possibly be like you because nothing is wrong with them.
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  Speaker 1: Something's wrong with you, but nothing could be wrong with them,
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  Speaker 1: And just absolute terror at being found out and of
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  Speaker 1: losing everyone you know, including the person that you love
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  Speaker 1: who you're not gonna probably ever say anything to. On
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: top of that, yeah, there's the fear of AIDS HIV.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: There's the politicians and the newscasters and bullies and sometimes
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  Speaker 1: even your parents are people in your life just constantly
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: telling you something is wrong with you, even if they
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  Speaker 1: don't know you're gay, but they're repeating these messages, and
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  Speaker 1: so it just feels like in this case, the miscommunication trope.
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  Speaker 1: You get why it's happening, but it's just so painful.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: It's so painful, and Samantha knows like I have some
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  Speaker 1: like this one particular story that destroys me. And in fact,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: it's just updated and I'm like already, like I got
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to block out my time it's gonna But it's really
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  Speaker 1: just about this, Like it's not there's not like a
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  Speaker 1: lot of death or tragedy outside of this. It's just
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  Speaker 1: that like self hatred, especially from young people, and seeing
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: there reading about their thought process and having this like
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: you know, hopeful, youthful. Oh maybe maybe they could be
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  Speaker 1: like me. It just all feels really fragile and dangerous,
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  Speaker 1: and it's something that the characters will mock themselves for
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  Speaker 1: or they'll question endlessly, like even the tiniest bit of
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: flirting is an act of like a huge act of
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  Speaker 1: curve because it's dangerous and there's so much fear behind
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: it that they could ruin everything, especially in a small town.
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  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I guess it just feels really different
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  Speaker 1: than when I read about it with straight characters, because
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  Speaker 1: a lot of times when I was reading articles for
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: this episode, people were angry because these the straight characters
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  Speaker 1: in question are smart and surely they can see it
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  Speaker 1: what's wrong with them. But with queer relationships, there's a
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  Speaker 1: lot more of questioning and fear and hatred self hatred.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And I do think that that is not as big
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  Speaker 1: the case as it was like during the eighties. But
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  Speaker 1: I mean, the people writing these stories now obviously aren't
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: in the eighties and can still understand it. So even
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: if it's not as big as it once was, I
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: do think it still exists, especially in small towns or
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  Speaker 1: if you come from a conservative family or something like that.
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  Speaker 1: But yeah, the miscommunication show m it's a killer. It
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: is a killer. Yeah, oh my soul. It's so frustrating
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: you want to shake up, especially if you know, like
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: both of their their viewpoints. Yeah, like yes, it matches up. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I hate it when they start to they start to
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  Speaker 1: do it and then somehow still managed to miscommunicate. You
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  Speaker 1: had the conversation, but you still were actually, we don't know,
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  Speaker 1: completely having honest communication because you're protecting yourself and that
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  Speaker 1: can look you know, like fear of rejection or fear
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  Speaker 1: losing everybody, But it can also be kid eighties just
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: like really checking to make sure they're not going to
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  Speaker 1: be a dangerous person if they find out. So those
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: are just some of my thoughts I would love to
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  Speaker 1: hear from listeners if you have any thoughts about this.
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  Speaker 1: I'll continue this queer baiting one day. We'll get to
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the end of my list, and if you do have
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: tropes that you would like us to talk about. I
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: love looking into a trope and I love looking into
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: how a trope can look different differently in different communities,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So please let us know. You can email us at
• 13:37
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• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Rima and our
• 13:51
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• 13:54
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