Latest / The Financial Feminism Podcast / Debt Is Not Always a Character Flaw

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Debt Is Not Always a Character Flaw · The Financial Feminism Podcast

0:15
There's a particular kind of embarrassment that comes
0:20
with making decent money and still owing people
0:25
money, because once you reach a certain point
0:28
in your career, people assume you're good.
0:31
You have the job, you have the title,
0:34
maybe you have the degree or two, your
0:37
bills are getting paid, you know how to
0:39
handle business.
0:41
People come to you when they need advice,
0:43
and from outside you look financially responsible.
0:47
And then you open your banking app.
0:49
You look at the credit card, the student
0:52
loan, the personal loans, or the payment plans,
0:57
the thing you finance because there wasn't enough
1:00
cash when you need it, and suddenly that
1:04
successful woman disappears for a minute.
1:07
In her place is a woman thinking, how
1:10
am I still here?
1:13
I should be further along than this.
1:15
I make too much money to still have
1:18
debt.
1:19
I know better.
1:21
And there it is, that sentence, I know
1:25
better.
1:26
As though knowing better automatically means life will
1:30
cooperate with the plan.
1:33
It doesn't.
1:34
Welcome to Financial Feminism.
1:36
I'm Dr. Tanika Bruce, and today we're having
1:39
a conversation that I think a lot of
1:41
accomplished women have quietly needed for a very
1:44
long time.
1:46
Debt.
1:47
Not just how to pay it.
1:49
I want to talk about what we think
1:51
debt says about us.
1:53
Because somewhere along the way, debt stopped being
1:56
only a financial condition.
1:59
We turned it into a character assessment.
2:03
Responsible people don't have this kind of debt.
2:08
Disciplined women don't end up here.
2:11
Smart women should know better.
2:14
Successful women should have figured this out already.
2:17
But financial lives don't happen in laboratories.
2:21
They happen while we're raising children, or changing
2:25
careers, or going back to school.
2:28
Maybe even taking care of parents, moving, starting
2:32
a business, getting divorced, recovering from relationships, helping
2:38
family, losing jobs, changing jobs, trying to make
2:42
one income stretch across the life that keeps
2:46
getting expensive.
2:48
And sometimes we make bad decisions too.
2:52
Let's say that plainly.
2:54
Sometimes we bought something that we couldn't afford,
2:57
or we ignored a balance.
2:59
Maybe we kept spending because we didn't want
3:01
to deal with what was happening.
3:04
Or we underestimated what something would cost.
3:09
Maybe we made a decision at 27 that
3:13
the woman at 47 would never make.
3:17
That's real too.
3:20
Financial feminism doesn't require us to pretend every
3:24
financial decision we've ever made was wise.
3:27
But here's what I refuse to do.
3:30
I refuse to take a financial decision, a
3:34
difficult season, or a balance on a statement,
3:37
and use that as evidence that a woman
3:39
is fundamentally irresponsible.
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Those are two completely different things.
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And if we don't separate them, shame starts
3:49
running the financial plan.
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That's where things get really expensive because shame
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doesn't...
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Here's what it does.
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It does something really interesting.
4:00
It makes us avoid information.
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We stop opening the statement.
4:06
We don't add everything up, or you pay
4:09
the minimal and you move on.
4:11
Or tell yourself you'll deal with it when
4:13
you make more money.
4:15
And then when you make more money, and
4:17
somehow you still don't deal with it, not
4:20
because you're incapable, but sometimes because looking at
4:24
it feels like looking at evidence against yourself.
4:28
So I want to change that today.
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I don't want you looking at debt as
4:32
evidence against you.
4:34
I want you looking at it as information.
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Because information gives us something shame never will.
4:43
Options.
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Think about this.
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If you walked into a doctor's office and
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you said, hey, I'm here, something hurts.
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A good clinician won't simply look at you
4:55
and say, well, that's unfortunate.
4:57
Let's just get rid of the pain.
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No, we want to know more.
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When did it start?
5:04
What happened before it started?
5:07
What makes it worse?
5:08
What keeps bringing it back?
5:11
What else is happening?
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Because if we don't understand what created the
5:16
problem, we can treat the symptom and leave
5:21
the cause sitting right where it was.
5:24
Money deserves the same level of curiosity.
5:28
So today we're doing something I call the
5:31
debt autopsy.
5:33
And yes, I chose that word intentionally because
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I want us, I don't want us staring
5:39
at the balance and asking only how fast
5:43
can I kill the debt?
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I want us to understand how we got
5:48
here.
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There are four questions and the first one
5:51
is what created it?
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Now that question sounds really simple until you
5:57
actually answer it.
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So let's say you have $12,000 in
6:03
credit card debt.
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Well, what created it?
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You could say spending technically, yes, but that
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doesn't tell us very much.
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Was it $12,000 of shopping?
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Was it part of a period when you
6:18
were unemployed?
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Did you put tuition on it?
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Did you relocate for an opportunity or cover
6:27
expenses during a divorce?
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Did you help a parent?
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How about maybe an emergency without enough cash
6:37
reserves?
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Did you have a bad quarter in your
6:42
business?
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Or did you just consistently spend more than
6:47
you earned?
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Maybe you financed a lifestyle that your income
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couldn't actually support.
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Those are very different financial problems and they
6:58
don't necessarily require the same solution.
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One woman may need a spending change.
7:07
Another woman may need a larger emergency reserve.
7:11
Someone else has an income problem.
7:14
Another woman has a family boundary problem.
7:18
Another may need to stop using personal credit
7:21
to keep an unhealthy business alive.
7:24
Somebody else has simply never had a plan
7:28
for irregular expenses so every surprise becomes debt.
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Same credit card, different story.
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That's why I don't want you beginning with
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judgment.
7:40
Begin with diagnosis.
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What created it?
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Not the sanitized answer, the real one.
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And if part of the answer is, Dr.
7:52
Tanika, I spent too much money, okay.
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Now we know something.
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We can work on that.
8:00
If the answer is, I was trying to
8:02
survive a season I wasn't financially prepared for,
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we can work with that too.
8:08
The point isn't to find the most flattering
8:11
explanation.
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The point is to find the true one.
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Because you cannot change a financial pattern that
8:19
you refuse to name.
8:21
Now here's the second question.
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What is keeping it alive?
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This one is different.
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So what created your debt five years ago
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may not be what's keeping you in debt
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today.
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And that's important.
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You could have accumulated debt during a divorce.
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The divorce is over.
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But five years later, the balance is still
8:45
there.
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Why?
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Maybe the interest is eating up most of
8:49
what you're paying, or you keep paying down
8:52
and charging back up.
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Maybe your income increased, but your lifestyle increased
8:57
right along with it.
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Or simply, there may not be an actual
9:02
debt repayment strategy.
9:04
You just send money towards everything every month
9:07
and hope the numbers eventually disappear.
9:10
Maybe emergencies keep landing on the same card
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because you still don't have enough cash between
9:17
you and the next emergency.
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Or maybe you're paying aggressively towards debt, but
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you haven't changed the behavior that created it.
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Or you could be doing everything you reasonably
9:29
can, but the numbers simply need time.
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That's information too.
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I want you to hear that because sometimes
9:37
women decide this isn't working, when actually it
9:42
is working.
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It's just not finished.
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Those are not the same thing.
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And if you've stopped adding new debt, you're
9:50
making progress.
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If the balance is declining, you're making progress.
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If you've built enough savings that the next
9:59
tire, or flight, or repair, or family emergency
10:03
doesn't immediately go onto a credit card, that
10:07
is progress.
10:09
If you're finally looking at the numbers without
10:11
avoiding them, that counts too.
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Financial progress is not only the day the
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balance reaches zero.
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Ownership starts much earlier than that.
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Now the third question in the debt autopsy
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is where this gets very, very interesting.
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It is, what is this debt costing me
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now?
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And I don't mean only interest, obviously interest
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matters, but I want you to look further.
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What is this payment preventing?
10:45
What does $700 a month towards old decisions
10:48
mean for today's decisions?
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Would that money be going towards your emergency
10:53
fund, a home, an investment, your business, retirement,
11:00
travel, a career change?
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Would it simply give you breathing room?
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Debt doesn't only have a balance, it occupies
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cash flow.
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And cash flow is where a lot of
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your options live.
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This is one reason I care so much
11:18
about ownership, because when we talk about becoming
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debt free, I don't want the finish line
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to be, I don't owe anybody.
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Wonderful, but then what?
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What are you going to own?
11:32
What are you going to build?
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And where will that payment go when it
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finally belongs to you again?
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Because if you're sending $900 a month towards
11:41
debt, and one day the debt disappears, you
11:44
just recovered $900 of monthly decision making power.
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That's not just relief, that's capacity.
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And that's where I want your mind going.
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Not merely, I can't wait until this is
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gone, I want you thinking, what will this
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money become when I get it back?
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That's a completely different relationship with debt repayment.
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Now you're not simply running away from something,
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you're moving towards something.
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Maybe that money becomes investing.
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Maybe it becomes the down payment.
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It could give you enough runway to start
12:27
the business that you've been thinking about for
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seven years.
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Maybe it becomes your freedom fund, or lets
12:35
you take a position that pays slightly less,
12:38
but gives you the leadership experience you need
12:41
for the next level.
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Or it could allow you to help family
12:46
from a position of choice instead of financial
12:50
chaos.
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Maybe it simply means you sleep better.
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That's worth something too.
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The fourth question is probably the most important
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that I'll ask you.
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What needs to change before I attack it?
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Notice what I said, before.
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Because this is where a lot of financial
13:13
advice loses people.
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We hear, cut everything, throw every extra dollar
13:19
at our debt, stop eating out, cancel everything,
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don't go anywhere, don't buy anything, right?
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Suffer until the debt's gone.
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And for some people, an extremely aggressive repayment
13:31
period may make sense.
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But I want you to think beyond the
13:35
balance.
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Suppose the real reason you keep returning to
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debt is that you have no emergency savings.
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You throw every available dollar at your credit
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card.
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The balance drops, and then your car needs
13:53
$1,400 worth of work.
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Where does the $1,400 go?
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Back on the credit card.
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Now you're angry.
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Because you were doing everything right, but you
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didn't have a debt problem.
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Not just a loan anyway.
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You had a resilience problem.
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There wasn't enough financial shock absorption between you
14:16
and life.
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What needs to change before you attack the
14:20
debt?
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Maybe you need a starter reserve, or automatic
14:26
payments, or maybe you need to separate business
14:31
and personal spending.
14:34
How about knowing your actual monthly expenses?
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Or you could just need to change the
14:42
financial arrangement that you have with someone in
14:45
your family.
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Maybe your income just genuinely needs to increase,
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or you've got to stop treating bonuses, overtime,
14:54
and tax refunds as permission to spend before
14:57
they arrive.
14:59
Or you could just need to sit down
15:01
with someone qualified to understand your options.
15:06
The answer will not be the same for
15:09
every woman.
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That's why I want you to stop asking,
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what is everyone else doing?
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Your financial plan has to survive your life.
15:20
Not Instagram's life.
15:22
Not your co-worker's life.
15:24
Not the woman online who paid off $80
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,000 in 11 months and somehow had no
15:30
rent.
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Your life.
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Your income.
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Your obligations.
15:38
Your goals.
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Your season.
15:42
Your numbers.
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Now I want to talk to the woman
15:46
who's been carrying debt for a really long
15:48
time.
15:48
Because long-term debt can become a part
15:51
of your identity if you're not careful.
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You stop saying, I got debt, and somehow
15:57
inside it starts sounding like I'm bad with
16:00
money.
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Those sentences are not interchangeable.
16:04
So I want you to listen carefully.
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You can have debt and become excellent with
16:10
money.
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You could have made poor financial decisions and
16:14
become financially disciplined.
16:17
You can be paying for an old decision
16:20
while making much better decisions today.
16:23
And you can be financially sophisticated and still
16:27
have something in your financial life that needs
16:30
work.
16:31
Growth does not require your past to disappear
16:35
first.
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This matters, especially for accomplished women.
16:40
Because competence can make it harder to admit
16:44
that you don't understand something.
16:47
And when everybody thinks you've got it all
16:50
together, they're saying, I actually don't know what
16:54
to do with this.
16:56
Can feel humiliating.
16:59
So you keep it private.
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And that's exactly why financial feminism exists.
17:05
You don't have to come into this community
17:07
and announce your credit score.
17:10
You don't have to tell strangers how much
17:12
debt you have.
17:13
You don't have to perform financial vulnerability.
17:16
You can simply come in and say, I
17:18
got a question.
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That's enough.
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You don't have to bring numbers into the
17:24
room.
17:25
Bring your questions.
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I want women to have somewhere that they
17:30
can ask, should I pay this first or
17:33
save first?
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How do I talk to my partner about
17:37
this?
17:37
Should I be investing while I'm still paying
17:40
debt?
17:41
How much emergency savings do I need?
17:45
What do I do when family keeps asking
17:47
for money?
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I make good money.
17:50
Why do I still feel behind?
17:53
Nobody taught me this.
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Where do I start?
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Those are normal questions.
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And the sooner we can ask them without
18:03
attaching our intelligence or our worth to the
18:07
answer, the sooner we can actually do something
18:10
useful.
18:11
Now, there's another side of this conversation.
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I don't want debt is not always a
18:18
character flaw to become an excuse that we
18:21
hide behind.
18:22
That's not what I'm saying.
18:24
Understanding why something happened does not remove your
18:28
responsibility for what happens next.
18:33
Actually, I think it increases it because once
18:37
you can see the pattern clearly, you have
18:40
information and information creates a decision point.
18:46
You may discover that life happened.
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Okay.
18:49
Okay.
18:51
What are we building so the next version
18:54
of life doesn't have the same financial impact?
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You may discover that you overspent.
19:01
Okay.
19:02
What system changes now?
19:06
You may discover that you were supporting everyone
19:09
else.
19:10
Okay.
19:11
Where are the boundaries?
19:13
You may discover that your income isn't enough
19:16
for the life you're trying to maintain.
19:18
Okay.
19:20
Is the answer reducing expenses, increasing income, changing
19:26
the life, probably some combination, but now we're
19:31
dealing with reality.
19:33
That's where ownership begins, not in shame, not
19:38
in pretending and not in beating yourself up
19:41
for five years.
19:43
In reality, this is what happened.
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This is where I am.
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And this is what keeps the problem alive.
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This is what it's costing me.
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And this is what I'm changing.
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That's a woman taking control of her financial
20:00
life.
20:01
Not because every balance is zero, but because
20:05
the decisions belong to her again.
20:10
So here's what I want you to do
20:12
after this episode.
20:13
Not 17 things, one.
20:17
Take out a piece of paper and at
20:20
the top, write my debt autopsy.
20:25
And then choose one debt, just one.
20:29
Don't overwhelm yourself with every number you ever
20:31
owed.
20:32
Write the name of the debt and the
20:33
current balance.
20:35
Then answer four questions.
20:37
What created it?
20:39
What's keeping it alive?
20:40
What is it costing me now?
20:43
And what needs to change before I attack
20:46
it?
20:46
Take your time.
20:48
And when you answer the first question, don't
20:50
write what sounds responsible.
20:53
Write what actually happened.
20:55
When you answer the second, don't automatically blame
20:58
yourself.
21:00
Look for the actual mechanism.
21:03
When you answer the third, think beyond interest.
21:07
What opportunity is this payment occupying?
21:11
Then when you get to the fourth question,
21:13
choose something you can actually change.
21:17
That's your starting point.
21:19
Because I don't want you leaving this episode
21:22
simply feeling better about the debt.
21:24
I want you feeling that you understand yours
21:28
better.
21:29
That's the difference.
21:30
Feeling better may last until tomorrow.
21:32
Understanding changes decisions.
21:35
And I want to leave you with one
21:37
more thought.
21:38
Some of the strongest women I know have
21:41
financial chapters that they would rather nobody read.
21:45
A business failed, a marriage that cost more
21:48
than expected, a degree that didn't produce the
21:52
income they imagined, years of helping family, a
21:57
season of unemployment, a house they shouldn't have
21:59
bought, credit cards they never wish they opened,
22:02
a decision that they would make differently today.
22:07
None of that means the story is finished,
22:10
but we do have to turn the page.
22:12
So no, debt is not always a character
22:15
flaw.
22:16
Sometimes it's evidence of survival or evidence of
22:20
a system that wasn't strong enough yet.
22:23
Sometimes it's just the bill from an old
22:25
decision or the cost of trying something that
22:28
didn't work.
22:29
It could also come from generosity without boundaries.
22:34
So yes, it can come from spending money
22:37
that we shouldn't have spent.
22:39
Whatever your answer is though, I want you
22:41
to be able to look at it without
22:43
looking away because the balance needs information, not
22:48
humiliation.
22:49
The plan needs honesty, not punishment.
22:52
And your future needs you to present enough
22:55
to make the next decision.
22:59
Debt may tell me what happened.
23:02
It doesn't get to decide what happens next.
23:06
That's the sentence I want you to carry
23:08
with you all this week.
23:10
And if you know a woman who has
23:11
been quietly beating herself up about all of
23:15
this because she believes that she could be
23:17
further along financially by now, send her this
23:21
episode.
23:21
Don't give her a speech.
23:22
Don't ask her how much she owes.
23:24
Just send it and say, I thought about
23:26
you when I heard this.
23:27
Then come join us inside the Financial Feminism
23:30
Community.
23:31
It's free.
23:32
And no, you don't have to arrive with
23:34
your financial life organized.
23:36
That's the whole point.
23:38
Come, ask the question you've been embarrassed to
23:41
ask.
23:41
Come listen, come learn, come figure out your
23:44
next move with women who are doing the
23:47
same thing.
23:48
You don't have to bring your numbers into
23:50
the room.
23:51
Bring your questions.
23:53
I'm Dr. Taneika Bruce, and this is Financial
23:55
Feminism, your income matters, your decisions matter, but
24:00
ownership is what creates options.
24:03
I'll see you in the community.
24:04
♪ Financial feminism, ownership, income, freedom.
24:11
♪ ♪ Financial feminism, more options, more ownership,
24:16
♪ ♪ more freedom.
24:17
♪