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Guy Kawasaki: Bold Steps to a Remarkable Life · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or douse along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today I have Guy Kawasaki.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: He's the Chief Evangelist of Canva and the host of the Remarkable People podcast.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: He was the Chief Evangelist of Apple, trustee of Wicca Media Foundation, Mercedes-Benz brand ambassador, a special assistant to the Motorola Division of Google.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Kawasaki has a BA from Stanford University, an MBA from UCLA and an honorary doctorate from Babson College.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being on the Bold Lounge, Guy.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So we're excited to get started and really jump into your definition of bold.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: So what does bold mean to you, Guy Bold?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: means thinking differently and focusing on what you want to do, as opposed to what people may want you to do or what people may not want you to do.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: So it's believing in yourself and going forward.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Going forward, believing in yourself.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: And I think, when you said your definition of doing what you want to do versus, maybe, what people think you should do or they want you to do, so going potentially against some conventions of, well, this is what you're supposed to do next or this is the next step, not that, and so really pushing against that and pushing through it and, in a way, so based on your definition, when's the first time you remember being bold?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is the first time, but can I tell you a great story of being bold, absolutely, absolutely Okay.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: This is in 1997 and the guy who was managing the Apple account for shy at day comes in with a series of ads that he wants to propose to Apple.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And there's about 10 people in the room all the top marketing people in Steve Jobs, and he shows the ads.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: This is the think different ad campaign, the one featured Picasso and Gandhi and Amelia, earhart and Einstein, and so we all loved it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Because back then, you know, to use a Macintosh you did have to think different.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: You had to be bold.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Only, if you were not bold, you wouldn't use a Macintosh, because so many people thought Apple was dead and you know Macintosh wasn't a viable platform.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, he shows this.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: We love it.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: And at the end of the presentation, lee Clow says to Steve Jobs I have two copies of the videotape of these ads.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I'll give you one and I'll give one to guy.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And Steve Jobs says to him don't give one to guy.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: And I spoke up and I said Steve, steve, don't you trust me.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And Steve said, guy, no, I don't trust you.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: And this is the bold moment.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: This is one of those moments when you look back in life.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: He said why did I win?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Why didn't I seize the day?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: And so I was determined not to have that regret.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: So when Steve said, guy, I don't trust you, I came right back and I said that's okay, steve, I don't trust you either.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: That probably cost me a few million dollars in stock options, but you know did anyone laugh or was it a very quiet room?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I would say it was more quiet than laughter.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Let's just say not a lot of people will take Steve on like that.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: How long had you been there at that point?
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I?
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: started at Apple in 84.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I left in 87.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: And I came back in 95.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: And then I left in 97.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: So it was my second tour of duty.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, what is?
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I know this is a question folks might have.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: What is a chief evangelist?
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: New York Canva now, which is an incredible company, and you were obviously at Apple.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: What?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: What does a chief evangelist do?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Evangelism comes from a Greek word, meaning bringing the good news.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: So what evangelist does is bring the good news, and so we were working with developers to create Macintosh products, and so we're trying to bring the good news of Macintosh that it would make developers more creative and innovative and it would make end users customers more creative and productive.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: So that was our good news with Macintosh, with Canva, what Canva has done is democratize design so that anyone can make beautiful designs and become a better communicator.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So that that's the good news of Canva.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So what a chief evangelist does is bring the good news.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: So you amplify it, you share it, you make sure people know about it, all of those things.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Demo it.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever I mean.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Basically, you're trying to get people to believe in something as much as you do.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so starting with something that you believe in too, that you believe does good, and because I think sometimes people may work or be in organizations that maybe they had belief in or it just maybe has waned, but I mean that's at the heart of it, right, the belief in what you're talking about.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: So what was it like to work for Apple?
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: And then we'll move into the book.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: But I'm just curious in the sense of, because I'm sure people wonder, like, what it's like behind the scenes and kind of there, when it comes to innovation and curiosity and being able to have a growth mindset.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Is that a place where it flourishes?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I worked there 84 to 87 and 95 to 97.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: So data is a little old, yeah, but.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: But working for Steve Jobs was just it was.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: It was like going to Disneyland, except scarier A scary Disneyland.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: He was a very intimidating person and kind of ruled by fear and intimidation, and I'll tell you, though, that that fear drove us to do some of the best work of our lives, and I have no regrets over that whatsoever.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: And I think one of the lessons of remarkable people and being remarkable is that when you look back and it may take 10 or 20 years, when you look back you say the boss, the teacher, the coach, the mentor, the one that was the toughest on me, is the one I learned the most from.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: That's a very valuable lesson.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So, you know, don't, don't always take the easy road, don't look for the easy class, the easy job, the easy you know team, because in the long run, it's the tough ones that make you better.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: So with this book was this?
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: did I count correctly, this is your 15th book 16th, but I've said myself 15 times this year Last book guy.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Does it get easier with each book, so with number 16.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Well, some parts get easier because once you've written 16 or 15 books, you really know how to write a book, you know how to use tools and all that.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so is there anyone in the sense of the 16, including this one that you're the most proud of, or that feel like I overcame or had some bold moments in writing?
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Well, writing a book is a bold move, period.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Writing a book is a very difficult process Just the writing, you know.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: It's like.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I read some study that 90 percent of Americans think they have a book in them.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: But they may have a book in them, but it ain't coming out Right.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, take extraordinary discipline and you've got to write every day.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And many people believe that.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: You know, writing is this beautiful effort that you take and it's a windswept beach.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I have this visual of like sitting in the sun and on a you know window seat and writing my journal with your cap on your lap or something like that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: And you're using a Mont Blanc fountain pen with a drinking your tea.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: It's a little harder than that, isn't it I?
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: can see you understand Right, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: For all the difficulty of writing and producing and all that, the hardest part is marketing the book People.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: They think you know you write this great piece of art and all of a sudden but a bang.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: But a bang is just flying off the shelves.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I hate to tell you You've got to start yesterday, so like I definitely know that myself.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: So when you think about this book so this book is called Think Remarkable Nine Paths to Transform your Life and Make a Difference you actually, you know you have had numerous guests on your own podcast named Remarkable.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So how did you get the idea, or what inspired you, to write this particular book, Number 16.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Well, at some point I thought I kind of had a moral obligation.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So I've been very fortunate to be able to interview people like Jane Goodall and Stacey Abrams and Steve Wozniak and, just on and on, Mark Rober if you're a YouTube fan, and Olivia Giuliana if you're a political activist, and I have now 200 interviews in the can, an hour each, and 4,000 pages of transcripts.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of value in all that.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: It's unreasonable to think that someone's going to go listen to 200 hours or read 4,000 pages.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: So I thought that I should reduce this and it's come down from 4,000 pages to 170 pages.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So I want this to be kind of a guide, particularly for Gen Z and millennials, about how to make a difference and be remarkable.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: And do you ever think like as we get older, we need to remind ourselves of who we were or why we're doing what we're doing?
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean daily.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, like, I think this book has probably broad application, definitely for someone maybe potentially younger in their career, younger in their life, but I think each person with their uniqueness is remarkable and reminding ourselves of that is so, so important, which is what your book helps us do, I think, what's interesting about this book.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: So it helps us understand how to adopt a growth mindset, develop grit and resilience which we're going to talk about and embody grace and I really actually like those last two words and it helps us understand why it's possible to make a difference, become a better person, lead a fulfilling life, and then gives us the strategies to transform.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So let's just start off with what is your definition of remarkable?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: My definition of remarkable is making a difference.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: That that is, you made the world a better place.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: People when they hear this, they think, oh my god, I got to be Jane Goodall.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I'm saying that to be remarkable, you just need to make the world a better place.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: That could be one person, one team, one classroom.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: It could be your own life.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: It could be cleaning up a pond, a hill, a lake, you know whatever it is.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm, I'm not trying to say that to be remarkable, you have to be Steve Jobs or Jane Goodall.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: If that's your aspirations, god bless you.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I hope you achieve that.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: But I mean the people are featured in my book.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: They're like high school teachers in rural Oregon.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: They're not all billionaires.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: In fact, I don't think I have a billionaire in my book.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah so there's every day remarkable.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I think there's a Challenge we have in today's world of comparing ourselves to other people, of like how far we should be, what we should have done, or maybe we even have some of that in our head from how we grew up or, like you know, you should be here by now.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: You should have done this, xyz.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: There's external and internal judgment.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: So I think, again, this book is a reminder of of seeing the good that's everywhere and seeing the remarkable that's everywhere, because it's you've already and you probably, as you're listening to this, you've already touched it today.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: You've already had that connection with someone.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You've already met someone remarkable, yeah, without yeah.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So what the book starts out which I think is a very important part of being able to evolve, to advance, to grow Outside your comfort zone starts off the book with the growth mindset.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: So tell me why the growth mindset is connected to being remarkable.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: It's kind of an observation.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So after you interview 200 people, you figure out some patterns and one pattern is every remarkable person has an absolute growth mindset.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: You can, you can grow along in two patterns Also.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: One pattern is you start at something and you just pursue it and you keep pursuing it, maybe for the whole life.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: That's Jane Goodall.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Right, she's From from her childhood till now she's almost 90.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: It's about animals and biology and chimpanzees and you know nature.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, there's also a growth mindset that, yes, you may be good at something, but it's time to learn other skills.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: It's time to you know Change horses in the middle of the stream.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: And I think a great example of this is Julia Child, where For the first 30 something years, you know, she was in one path and in her 30s she was working for the office of it's, the os s.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It became the cia and then she moved to france and fell in love with french cooking and she became Julia Child the chef.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: That's quite a change.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: That's really the mindset.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so being able to evolve and be open to it too, I mean, that's like the heart of growth mindset.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And obviously, carol dweck, the research that she did and the things that she did in her book Stand true today and continue to help us understand how we can be remarkable.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And I also think it connects with being bold as well, because it's not guaranteed, when you're being remarkable or bold, that you're going to succeed, that everything is going to be a home run.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: You may strike out.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Believe me, I know.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: You have an example of a strikeout that you cherish, that you learned a lot from.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: I've had many strikeouts.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: You know, as a venture capitalist, as an entrepreneur, I struck out many times and you know I can't tell you that all 16 of my books are successful, but you know I mean it.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: It really is a matter of you have the growth mindset that you can improve, you can gain new skills, you can take risks.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: And then grit kicks in and I I can't say that of the 200 people who I interviewed, any of them are lazy.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: That that is just not a common characteristics.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: It it takes effort to be remarkable and to make a difference.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Didn't?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: More people would be remarkable.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I read a quote this morning about Success is actually persistence, meaning that it's actually you keep going, you keep moving forward.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: You have a setback, you get up, you keep going, so that grit and resilience from failure or things that don't go your way is a really important piece of your success and your ability to be remarkable or bold.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so One of the things you talk about in the book is being vulnerable, and I'm assuming this is also a characteristic of the guests on your, your podcast, and you know I've definitely experienced that in making bold moves and doing things outside the comfort zone, you're exposed, like you potentially.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: You know people are looking, you're, you're, you're making moves that could go left, could go right, could go forward.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So why is being vulnerable so important?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Well, being vulnerable.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Vulnerable comes from a latin word meaning wound.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: In other words, you have to be open to being wounded, which sounds like a really dangerous thing but doesn't sound fun, guys.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, if you're not open to being wounded, you're probably not gonna grow right so right, I took up surfing at 60.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's just say that's about five years too late.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Right, you take up surfing at 60.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: You're falling, you're tripping, you're, you know you're drowning, you're, you're rolling around in the water.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's what it takes to grow, I mean.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: So you have to, you have to make this mental decision, this mental commitment that if I want to learn, I have to take risks.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And I say, you know, the greatest risk in life Is not taking risks.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: You don't take risks, you will never make progress.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw this sign one time I was in New York for one of the bold tables and it said Um, thank your haters, they're your biggest supporters.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: And it was this huge sticker that was like just stuck on a mailbox or something, yeah, and it kind of rang true.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: And when I saw in your book about you know how you Want your naysayers to be positive influences, tell me how you couch that, because it kind of reminded me of that sticker that I saw in New York.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I think the natural reaction to a naysayer is to hate them back right or to or just to feel hurt, or just yeah.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Right, but a better use of a naysayer is to use it as motivation.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: If somebody says you can't be a writer, you know you can't be a podcaster.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: You don't have a.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: You don't have a background in English, You're not a PhD.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: You know how can you write a novel.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: You don't have a Harvard English degree.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Like you, just got to take that as a challenge.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: But you don't have anything to prove to them.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I had someone once say to me well, I hope you proved me wrong and I'm just like.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: My actions are not meant to prove anything to anybody else, they're for me.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: But I appreciated like I guess definitely not in that moment that I appreciated it, but I appreciated someone challenging me, you know, and saying, okay, you know, you're not going to be a successful speaker, you're not going to, you don't have enough this or that.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: And it was this moment of like just being very reflective about one.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Why did that bother me so much?
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: And then two like okay, let me get at it because I will be successful, but I'm not going to be successful to prove anything to anybody Because, especially at my age, like I'm not into proving it to anyone but myself.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Right, can you relate to that?
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Is that ring true?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I absolutely understand what you said.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I also want to point out that if someone is a naysayer, I think it's perfectly okay to want to prove them wrong.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, just a little quietly, but I mean it's not like I wake up every day and go I'm going to prove X wrong.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, I guess, because some people can get that and I think that's an unhealthy way potentially to use it, but it definitely can.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I said it stoked my fire.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: That's what I said and the sense of that.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And I think some of probably the remarkable moves and certainly the bold moves that people make are quiet ones.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: They're not ones that are spliced across the front page or are in social media with a gazillion impressions or anything like that.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: They're quiet moves that people are making every day that are remarkable, like you said, in the classroom, on the front line, doing things in healthcare facilities and all over.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be kind of a Taylor Swift moment.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: No offense to Taylor Swift.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: At some level it's between you and yourself and maybe your God.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: That's keeping score, yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Right, so then you move into planting many seeds.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Tell us what that chapter is all about.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so planting many seeds.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I use a metaphor of I'm trying to grow oak trees in my house or not in my house, in my yard, and what I learned is that the process of planting oak trees is you got to get a lot of acorns, you throw them in the water.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: The ones that float are dead, you throw those away, you put them in the freezer or refrigerator for a couple months and then you plant.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: And you have to plant a lot of acorns to get a few trees, because not a lot of them seed and become saplings and then the deer eats them and like lots of things happen.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: And another realization is that I'm planting acorns that will not be trees for 15 or 20 years, so it's very possible I will never sit under the shade of the oak trees I'm now planting.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: And that's a heavy thing to think about, right?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of shh, that kind of says that you're changing how you're keeping score.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: You're not keeping score for, like immediate gratitude, it's for the next generation and my grandchildren sit under that tree.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Of course, my children will probably sell this house, but anyway.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So that's so.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Planting many seeds it means that you got to take a lot of shots.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: You have to do a lot of sampling, that you write 16 books.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: You try a lot of careers.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: If you're a chef, you know you don't just cook one thing, you try a lot of things.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: And I could also apply this to personal relationships.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: That you know you got to date a lot of people before you find the right one.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: That's possible.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: It's not always your first date that becomes your lifelong.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: For sure, very rarely.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: What does resilience have to do with being remarkable?
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It has everything.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It's the flip side It'll.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, being remarkable is not easy.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: You have to be resilient.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: There's gonna be internal pressure, external pressure, there's gonna be imaginary pressure, it's gonna be real pressure.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be all kinds of things coming at you and, like I said, if, if being remarkable or easy, there would be more remarkable people.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people use the word grit a lot these days.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: These are both with a lot, but what does grit mean?
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Having grit?
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: grit means Having enthusiasm for something and sticking with it thick or thin.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you something grit Trump's talent.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: If you had two people, one who's quote naturally talented and one who's not naturally talented but it has a grit I would pick the grit person all day long.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and grit and resilience are partners.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: So when you think about that, you're kind of moving through all the guests that you've had and you know Some of the things that they do or habits that they have.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: You talked about some characteristics earlier.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Is there any any habit that comes to mind when it comes to kind of going beyond or thinking beyond themselves or realizing that they're making a difference?
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: What are, what are some of their habits?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Well, some of their habits.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Probably the best example of habits in my book and in my podcast is Julia Cameron, right, because Julia Cameron has this habit of Writing these morning pages.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: That's number one.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Every morning long had three pages, and then she goes on artist dates, and artist dates means that you don't take your phone, you don't take your dog, you do something just for you, right, and it doesn't have to be you got to go to Tahiti, it could be you just go and visit Forest or a lake or something like that, mm-hmm.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And so these are the kinds of routines that Julia Cameron has.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And she's the queen of Creativity, right?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: It doesn't get more creative than Julia Cameron, so it is kind of habits.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I also interviewed BJ fog and he's talking about tiny habits and like people try to make these Humongous changes.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: He said you know you should tie it to smaller things.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so your habits connected with their reward, the cue, the habit, their reward, right, yeah?
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: So one of the things you talk about is going beyond the eureka moment like aha, I did it, I have this great idea and I think this is also related to bold as well as you have to actually take action.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: You have to do the what's next.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: It's not just I have a great idea, or when I can, or if I could, or once I retire.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about that in the connection to the remarkable outcomes that you can have you know what?
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: when I was younger, I used to think that the hard part is the good idea.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: The easy part is implementation.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I'll completely reverse my theory.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: My Good ideas are easy.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Implementation is hard.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, eureka is that moment where you think, oh, why don't I create a personal computer that's graphical user interface, with innovative software and has a mouse, and you know, and it simulates the real world.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: That's a brilliant idea.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: The hard part, trust me, is Implementation, and so the the key to getting beyond eureka, I think, is you have to commit yourself.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I need to make a prototype.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I need to get something done, physical, get it out there.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: And If you're writing a book, getting beyond the idea of a book is you have to write a proposal, you have to create an outline.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I would say a creating an outline is more important than the proposal.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So you create this outline and you know that's sort of your prototype, rather than thinking about that perfect day with your mom long pen.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: And our hot tea and the cat on our lap.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but out there and get beyond eureka, and that's a prototype.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so one of the things you talk about is just adapting to change and being able to go through the process of change.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: What advice, based on all the people you've talked to in your own life experience, would you give to someone who is needs to, or is about to embark on, a major life change a change in their career, a Change in, maybe, their relationship, a change in how they want to live their life?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Whether they're gonna do a pivot or maybe start their own business, what guidance would you give them?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Well, we can tie this back to writing too.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Actually, you can tie all of life to writing.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: But I Would say my advice is that you need to break down your big goal into tiny little goals Yep, the tiny little.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Just take a lot of little steps and you need to say to yourself okay, so Every day I'm gonna make a little bit of progress.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah that 1% better, right, right, 1%.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: But god, if man, if you were 1% better every day, you would be perfect pretty soon.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, I'll write one page a day, but I'll write one page a day every day, not when.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Only things are perfect every day.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Hello, high water, sick or healthy, busy or not, you write one page, right?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: You get into this habit.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And then you look back and you say, oh my god, it's been a year.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I have 365 pages, right, right, yeah, so it's that forward movement.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: You know, and I always and it's a famous quote and I don't know who said it but to begin, begin like start and then, if it doesn't work, start again.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: That's part of what we've talked about the growth mindset and resilience and grit.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And you know, Adapting to change is like keep going, you know, course correct and move forward Towards your goals and and chunk them out.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I call that goal chunking.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: So take your big goal and say, what do I need to do today if, by the end of the year, I want to let's use the weight loss, if I want to lose 50 pounds by December, what do I need to do today?
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: To work, I need to eat well, I need to sleep, I need to move.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: You know, okay, what are my goals in those areas today, and so I think that's a really important thing for for folks to understand as they're going through it.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Many of the people you've had on your podcast are leaders and they lead by example, and I'm wondering, from your perspective, how is that characterized?
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Or how can we understand or realize, because I don't think sometimes people realize that You're actually a role model or someone's seen you, are inspired by you.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: How can someone Understand the gravity of their leadership and learn to lead by example?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you just explained it.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: So the book is like growth, grit and grace, yeah, and race is what we're talking about, yeah, and I think that the people who are remarkable in the last third of their careers, they realize that it's not about them anymore.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: It's about what you're doing for the next generation.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: You know, because of fortune and good luck and grit and growth.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: You know, you made it through this door and now your job is to keep that door open and if you can expand the door but not shut the door, so that you're the only person, and that is a big realization.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You know, listen, when I die, I want people to say that I helped them make a difference.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: I want that to be my legacy.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And along your journey.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Have you ever felt like you had to take the high road to be successful?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Have I ever?
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I think I'm sure.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, take the high road every day, yeah, yeah.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: So what's that got to do with it?
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: What's that got to do with making a difference and realizing, most likely, it's all about the world's, not about you or me, it's about everyone else.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Going back to that I think, in many ways, taking the high road is actually more efficient and easier, believe it or not, because when you, for example, let's say, you give people the benefit of the doubt, that you know you're not attacking them, you're not feeling superior to them, you're not angry with them.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: You know maybe they didn't give you your upgrade to first class, or maybe they didn't bring the water immediately or whatever, but you know, give people the benefit of the doubt, you don't know what they're going through, and I think that leads to inner peace, and inner peace leads to it's easier to live when you give people the benefit of the doubt and you don't let every little thing bug you and you know that you no longer think that, oh my God, you know my life isn't perfect, everybody isn't lining up according to my expectations.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: It's a lot easier to live life giving people the benefit of the doubt and, you know, just chilling out and relaxing I mean giving yourself a break the high road is actually, I think, easier.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I think of someone like, as you're talking, like I'm visualizing Matthew McConaughey.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I got you, you hear him talk, you see some of the things he said.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: He's written his own book but I think just in the sense of taking the high road and kind of just easing in to like life and life is not been easy for him.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: He actually came from a very abusive household as a child and so I think, just realizing the value in others and valuing other people and their world and respecting that you don't know what's happening, right, and I think that's that's really encapsulated, I think, in the book as well.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: So you end the book with turn and burn and I would love to know of all your guests, like, who represents the best turn and burn moments or something that resonates with you, that someone that leaves no regrets behind and they they're inspirational and they see and they seize the opportunities.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Well, first, you know I cite Daniel Pink in my book because he did this thing about the regret study.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: People submitted their regrets and their regrets were pretty good and their regrets were pretty common, like most of the regrets were.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: They regret not doing something bold, right.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: They had a bold idea and they didn't do it, and that is one of the major regrets in life.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: And the second regret is not maintaining social connection.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: That they you know.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: They left people in the dust.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: So I think it's important to understand that you are not alone and that people have these kind of thoughts.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And you know it's good to learn from other people who went before you that if you read Daniel Pink's report about regrets and you say, oh, you know, he proved that most people regret not taking that risk and not being bold, not not trying to be remarkable, then I don't want to be that person.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to listen to other people's examples and I'm going to be bold, I'm going to go for it, otherwise you're going to regret it, and I think that's a very important concept.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: So as we close out and someone's thinking about you know, am I remarkable, Am I not remarkable?
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: You know, people have these moments right, Like my bold and my not bold.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I think what I found in my interviews on my podcast and in my work is like people don't even realize how bold they are and how some of the things they're doing.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Do you find that with the remarkable people as well?
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: They don't realize how awesome they are.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Let me say the other half of what you're saying, because we are in complete and utter agreement.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: You know the point of this book and listening to this podcast.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: It's not self-help how to be remarkable, okay.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: So the way it works is you make a difference.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: You make a difference to yourself, to your family, to your team, to your classroom, to the environment.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: You make a difference.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: You make the world a better place.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: And if you make the world a better place, sooner or later people are going to figure out your remote.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: You're remarkable.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: So the way it works is you make a difference.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: You become known as remarkable.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: That's very different than saying ah, you know what?
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: My resolution tomorrow?
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start being remarkable, no, no, no no no, no.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: This book is about how to make a difference, and if you make a difference, you will have no choice but to be considered remarkable.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: That's the key, yeah.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: If you're making a difference and you're really looking at the greater good, you already are Remarkable and you just keep doing it because we need people to continue to do that, so I love that.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Everything about the new book is in the episode notes Please get your copy today and all about Guy as well.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: And I love the Bold.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of Bold stories.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: We are going to be talking about the Bold Lounge podcast Bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: You will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others Through their unique and important story.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next Bold journey with you.