Latest / #Faith4TodayPodcast / Episode 62 – Faithful in Transition | Leadership, Change & Becoming a Spirit-Agent of Blessing

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Episode 62 – Faithful in Transition | Leadership, Change & Becoming a Spirit-Agent of Blessing · #Faith4TodayPodcast

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Change is inevitable, but this orientation doesn't have to be.
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In Numbers 27, Moses prepares Joshua to begin to leave Israel,
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reminding us that how we leave one season shapes how we enter
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the next season. In this episode, we're going to
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talk about transition, spiritual authority, and how God forms us
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through seasons of change so that we can become life giving
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agents, a blessing wherever we go.
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It's another episode of the Faith for Today podcast.
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Let's go. Well, welcome to today's episode
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of the Faith for Today podcast. We are episode 62 and we're
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talking about transitions and being faithful in the midst of
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it and being people who bring blessing in every season and
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stage of life, regardless of what it is that we're
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experiencing. I'm your host, Matthew, and it
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is a delight to have you with us this week for the episode.
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Every week our our desire on this podcast is to help you not
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just be inspired from the scriptures, but to integrate
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them faithfully each and every day of the week.
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So we're going to recap a Sunday message.
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I'm going to share a little bonus content and then, of
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course, going to respond to some questions that we had come in.
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We got a lot to get into today on the episode.
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So let's jump right in. This week in the message, we
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came out of Numbers chapter 2712 through 23 and we talked about
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how life is really full of transitions.
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And this moment in the book of Numbers kind of marks the end of
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Moses's leadership, or the beginning of the end of Moses's
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leadership, and that the initiation of Joshua as the
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successor, reminding us that not everything lasts forever.
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Change, in fact, is inevitable. Careers, relationships,
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spiritual seasons, and even, of course, our physical bodies.
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But disorientation doesn't have to be inevitable.
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In fact, Moses knows his assignment is coming to an end
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because of his earlier failure, and yet God still allows him to
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see the Promised Land and faithfully prepare the next
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leader. It's a powerful reminder that
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how we leave one season does shape how the next one begins
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for us. God is intentional about
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succession, and wise people plan for what comes next with an open
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hand, not trying to control the future but stewarding the moment
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they've been given. We also explored how and God's
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character and desire is to shepherd his people through
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relationships and spiritual authority.
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God doesn't want his people orphan, and so he places us in a
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community where spiritual friendships can be formed, where
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we can go deep, be vulnerable, and where transformation is kind
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of expected. In the passage we looked at,
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Moses publicly lays his hands on Joshua, a physical act of
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blessing, commissioning and imparting authority.
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That touch communicates belonging and safety and healing
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in ways words often can't do it throughout the Bible, laying on
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of hands becomes a way to bless, to heal and empower people for
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God's work, commissioning them to being spirit agents for the
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Kingdom of God, something Jesus even commissioned his disciples
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to do. And we looked at that in Mark
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chapter 16. So wherever we're at in life,
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whether we're in a steady season or a season that's bringing some
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change, the call for us is still the same.
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To be ready, but not rushed to embrace the assignment that God
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has given to us as Spirit filled agents of blessing and to walk
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faithfully as a standard bearer in the sphere of influence that
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God has entrusted to us. Let me share a little bonus
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content with you. The first thing I wanted to
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point out is how God is a multi generational God and often the
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transitions were multi generations.
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He's known as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
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In fact, there's always like this crossfade overlap, Abraham
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to Isaac, Isaac to Jacob. They kind of all live together
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kind of cross fading when they were all present on on the earth
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and kind of leading the family. I think about Moses and Joshua,
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right? Moses was there, Joshua's there,
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Joshua's coming up, but Moses was still present.
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And so there was like a crossfade of, of leadership and
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I, and I love how that works kind of the a transition period
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to, to when the the change fully takes place.
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I think there's some wisdom to, to experiencing, not especially
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in, in leadership and job change and other things along those
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lines. But but what I love is that kind
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of the symbolic reality of who Moses was.
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Like Moses and Joshua are both type and shadows, foreshadowing
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Jesus Christ in some way. Moses a deliverer, Joshua one
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who kind of leads them into an inheritance.
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Now Moses kind of establishes a covenant.
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Joshua is the one that distributes the blessing of the
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covenant. Moses kind of in my mind,
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represents like this justification, this this element
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of a redemption that the people didn't earn, but man, they were,
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they were blessed with a complete grace on their life.
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This, this justification that occurs in in this the
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deliverance of something. But but then Joshua kind of
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represents the, this sanctification element in the
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New Testament where, where I think about Joshua's life and
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what he did was, was a purification of the land so, so
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that they could experience it like, like in the justification
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with Moses, it was promised in Joshua, though, it manifested.
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And I love that kind of duality of, of both of them in their
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lives. And, and Jesus actually comes
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and fulfills both of those, both of those things because Mosham,
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Moses and Joshua both were types and foreshadows of who Jesus
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was, who came to redeem and renew all things.
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And both of them shepherded, if you will, the people of God.
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And Jesus is the ultimate Good Shepherd.
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And when I think about shepherds and I think obviously about the
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pastoral work, even today, that that it's, it's right that a
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pastor or a shepherd would feed, would protect and would guide
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the flock. I think this is so much of what
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the, the the role of shepherd was in how Joshua did it, how
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Moses did it. And and we see in a Numbers 27,
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Moses talks to the Lord and says, Lord identify a man like
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Brent, somebody that's going to lead them in and lead them out.
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That's going to go in before you and go out before you something
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that's going to seek your face, seek your voice and deliver that
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to the people and help the people, guide the people to walk
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in obedience to your commands so that your people are not sheep
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without a shepherd. That was Moses's prayer and
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Joshua was God's response to Moses's prayer.
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And both Moses and Joshua, both, they helped kind of provide and
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lead them to a spiritual nourishment, kind of giving them
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the word of God, if you will. So, so Joshua, Moses both fed
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the commands of God to the people.
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They protected the people from oncoming threats inside and
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outside of the camp, the threats that were coming for them there.
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There's a protective element to their role as shepherds of God's
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people. And there was a guidance, right?
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Like they kept pointing to commands of God, pointing to
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what God is saying and guiding and walking with the people,
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modeling and speaking to the people that helps them guide to
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the plans that God has for us. And I think that that's God's
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desire still for all of his people is that we would be in
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the family and be shepherded in in that way to feed, to protect,
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and to guide. And what you find is that when
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you are properly in the family of God and you're in the
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community of faith, that's where care begins.
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And I think it's really important.
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While I do think pastors do provide care, I actually think
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that it's, when you look into Scripture, it's the body of
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Christ as believers who care for one another, remember all of the
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love one another, care one another's burdens, all of those
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things. Those are instructions to the
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people of God who are priests in the House of God, not
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necessarily to those who are operating in a shepherding role
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in the House of God or in the family of God.
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And so I think it's really, really important that we
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recognize that care for one another, especially in moments
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of crisis, but in ongoing moments of celebration or in
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special times of consecration or just even in a change that
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happens in people's lives, that it's the people of God who walk
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with you. And I think it's really
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important that we understand that.
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I know for us as a church, that's kind of our framework and
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I think that pastoral care, what we think about people show up,
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like when you have a baby or when there's a death or when
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you're sick or maybe you're going through something, a
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really challenging season in your life.
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I think that having somebody who shows up, who cares is 90% of
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pastoral care anyways. I think there is a portion where
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the shepherd of that flock or of that congregation can come and
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add some guidance, help bring some protection and wisdom and
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help help nourish us spiritually and help encourage us.
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But by and large, I think it's the body of Christ that cares
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for the body of Christ. In fact, when you read Ephesians
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4, First Corinthians 12, Romans chapter 12 in other parts in the
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Scripture, you see that it's not the the leaders of the church
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that are caring for one another, but rather it is each part of
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the body supplying something to nourish and care for the rest of
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the body. This is why I think it's
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important that we recognize that following Jesus isn't something
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we do in isolation. It's not something we get to do
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alone. I, I really don't believe you
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can faithfully follow the teachings of Jesus by yourself,
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apart from being in a local body that gathers under the name of
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Jesus, However large or small that gathering is.
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I, I think that it, it requires more than three people that are
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not related to each other to gather and care for one another.
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That's I think what the, the point of what the, what the
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Eclesi is. You know, I think a lot of times
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you've heard it said that the church is in a building, You are
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the church. And I understand all of the
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things that we're trying to emphasize with that, that that
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we carry a, a role in representing Christ everywhere
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we go. I, I agree we are ambassadors,
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but but technically the church comes from the Greek word
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ecclesia. And the word ecclesia means
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assembled people. And that that assembly was for a
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common purpose. So it's the people of God
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assembled together for a specific purpose, a God honoring
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purpose. That's the church.
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You can't assemble by yourself. You need more than three people
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assembled together. And those three people aren't
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necessarily all related to you in a in a biological way.
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So I think that that's what the assembly is.
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And so when the Bible talks about the church, it's talking
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about an assembled people, a gathered people for a common
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purpose. And so I think it's important
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that we recognize that following Jesus faithfully requires us to
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engage, participate in and in a sense belong to a local
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expression of the body of Christ.
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Whether that's in a house church, whether that's in a
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satellite campus, whether it's in a large church, a small, a
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rural church, wherever that is, there's a body of believers that
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come come together. Now, we've talked about our
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ecclesiology before and, and kind of how we view that and
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what we believe, but I want to talk more about like the
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relational aspect of the church, because God wants his people
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shepherded, which means he doesn't want you as an orphan.
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He doesn't want you as a wandering sheep.
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And I think it's important to know the distinction between
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especially kind of in the area where we live, a rural
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community, you are familiar with a lot of people by name and
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you're probably friendly with a lot of people and you're
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friendly with them and familiar not only with their name, but
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probably some details of their life.
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That's not spiritual friendships, that's just being
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familiar or friendly. That's not the same thing as
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developing rich spiritual friendship where there's
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accountability, where you're in each other's lives, where you're
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communicating in an ongoing way throughout the week, where where
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there's a celebration and there's there's support and
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there's care and there's all of these things that are ongoing in
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your life. And here's what happens.
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Many people attend the gathering and they know some people's
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names and they know and they themselves are friendly.
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All good things. And they they're friendly with
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them. And then they're even maybe even
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serve a little bit and they're in a team and they're
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participating, they're giving and they're serving.
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All of those things are true and you are doing some things
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together, but that doesn't mean you are being known.
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They might know some things about you, but that doesn't know
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mean that you are known. And I think in, in a church, any
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church, but, but in our church for sure in faith church, our,
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our desire is not that you know everybody, but rather that
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everybody is truly known by somebody.
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And that doesn't mean that it's the, the, the staff's job to
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know, know everybody. We, we, I know as a pastor man,
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I want to know as many people as I can.
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I want to be present and as many people as I can.
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But at the end of the day, I can't walk in real life all with
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every person that gathers with our, our congregation.
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But there are people who can walk with each person in, in
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that gathering. And so This is why we have
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groups to, to help you to do that.
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This is why we encourage people to start groups to, to develop
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this because God does not want you lonely or isolated or living
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like an orphan. And, and I think, you know,
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again, as, as a pastor man, we really want to care for people.
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We want to be ready to, to help people in crisis.
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But we don't know everything that everyone is walking
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through. And certainly, if, if someone
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lets us know that they're walking through something, then
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we want to respond and we do and walk with people.
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I mean, I was just walking with the family who experienced a
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loss in their their life just over this last weekend.
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And this is something we do often because we respond and we
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care and, and we engage in those way.
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And there are other people in the body of Christ who know
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them, who responded and connected and cared for them.
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All of those things are true. I know as staff, as elders, this
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is this is our heart, this is our desire.
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We, we do those things and, and let me be kind of clear, like
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there are some things I do because of my role as pastor,
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like facilitate a funeral or something like that.
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But but when somebody's hurting, when somebody's having a change
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and we're walking through a transition, feeling the
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pressures of life like, and I respond to them.
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Sometimes I do it as a pastor, but most of the time I do that
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stuff just because I'm a follower of Jesus.
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And that's what we do as people of God.
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We care for the people of God. And so there's a real reality to
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it. And, and I talked about
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loneliness, how in the message, how loneliness is not what God's
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designed for us. In fact, it's a, it's a ploy of
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the enemy to get us living with an orphan spirit.
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Let me let me say this, loneliness is an emotion.
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It's an emotion that alerts us to a need that we have.
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What we do with that need is very, very important.
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So, so when you recognize like I'm feeling a little lonely, I'm
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feeling like I'm not known or I'm feeling uncared for or, or
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there's, there's something relationally that I'm missing
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that should alert you. And you can do one of two
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things. Either you can with courage,
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reach out and make confession, admit that to somebody and
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invite them into the need that you have.
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Or you can spiral play the victim and begin to to think
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more and more about how nobody sees you, nobody knows you,
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everybody's forgotten about you, they really don't care.
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And you can begin to spiral into a victim mindset, which isolates
17:22
you even more. And it it leads you to a
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spiritual condition to where you become convinced that you're an
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orphan and you don't really belong, that church really
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doesn't care. People don't really know you.
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And, and, and there may be some truth to that, but at the end of
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the day, you are as known in the body of Christ as you inform
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people to be, as you invite them into your life.
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In fact, this is how it works. Instead of sitting back and
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saying, man, I wish this person would say something to me or I
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really wish they would reach out and they would, you know, they'd
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invite me to lunch or they'd take me to coffee or that they
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would invite me to their group or all those other things.
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That, that's, that's a very passive aggressive beginning
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spiral that we, we can get into. It takes a lot of courage to
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reach out and invite somebody in And, and it takes courage to, in
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the moment need it. And like I said in the message
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on Sunday, it's better to learn how to handle change in
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transition before you need to change in transition somewhere.
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In other words, like it's not in the crisis that you want to
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learn how to manage a crisis. You want to kind of have some
18:35
forethought and some, some prep ahead of time.
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The the best time to have a friendship is not in the moment
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when you need it, but it's invested in before you need it.
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In other words, it's kind of like you need to know who you're
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going to call when you hit that moment and when you're fine,
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lost when when you have a loved one pass away, when you get a
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disappointing diagnosis or something that you are hoping
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for didn't work and you get disappointed And you just need
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somebody to encourage you a little bit because you're kind
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of feeling a little gun shy and you're not feeling very
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courageous in life. Like you, you need to have
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friends already in your life before you hit that moment.
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And so many of us live with a shallow sense of relationship
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because we are familiar and we are friendly, but that doesn't
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mean we developed rich spiritual friendship.
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In fact, rich spiritual friendship really occurs with
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fewer than 15 people in your life, typically 3:00 to 5:00,
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but but can be up to 15. So somewhere in that number,
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that's really where you're going to develop the rich spiritual
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friendships. And rich spiritual friendships
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are marked by three characteristics.
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Depth, vulnerability, and a commitment to transformation and
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growth. Those three things are what
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marks spiritual friendships. You need at least one or two
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spiritual friends outside of your spouse or family members.
20:03
Garrett like you need it and you have to cultivate.
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In fact, the Bible says it like this if you want.
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To have friends, you have to show yourself friendly.
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In other words, if you want people to care and respond and
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have that close relationship with you, then you have to
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develop close relationships with them.
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If you want a specific harvest, you have to sow specific seeds.
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Let me tell you what what happens in in our life when
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we're not courageous and we're not like building those
20:37
friendships like it's on us to build those friendships.
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No one's going to build the friendships in your life for
20:42
you. You have to build those
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friendships for you. The church is a great place to
20:47
begin. You get to know people, you get
20:49
familiar, you find people that you enjoy talking with and and
20:51
chit chatting with. Then take it further.
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You have have to be intentional about doing that, about getting
20:57
to know them, being inviting them into your life and
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continuing on that path of friendship.
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It is not automatic. And at the end of the day, if
21:08
we're not courageous, we'll end up in isolation.
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And what happens is isolation magnifies our instability.
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In fact, in times of transition and change it in, we have to
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learn how to increase relational honesty with people, increase
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our vulnerability. We have to invite their counsel,
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invite their comfort, and we have to avoid withdrawing from
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other people, because in transition you will want to
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isolate. That is the human tendency, but
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it is dangerous. It is not helpful.
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Again, all of the things in our life that come most natural
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typically are the most unhealthy, right?
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Like when you're trying to eat and you're trying to decide like
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what's ever quick, what's ever easiest, what's ever cheapest
21:56
often is the thing that we opt for, but that's not necessarily
22:00
what's the most beneficial for us.
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Let me give you just an example, just real personally, real quick
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on this subject of of if you want friends, you got to you got
22:10
to go show yourself friendly. In fact, the antidote to
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loneliness, it is not isolation. The anecdotal loneliness is
22:17
inviting people in. Don't expect people to intrude
22:21
into your loneliness. They they will not automatically
22:24
interrupt your loneliness. You have to invite people in in
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the midst of your loneliness, change, transition, or pain.
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You have to invite them in people.
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People will not intrude unless you've developed a close
22:36
relationship where that's a typical rhythm and pattern.
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Most of us don't have those spiritual friendships.
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In fact, that is the number one and probably the number two
22:47
reason why, if I'm, if I'm really honest, why we, my wife
22:51
and I, we started a connect group.
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What we started a group at faith because we know we LED groups
22:58
and, and it's good as a pastor to lead the way and to lead by
23:00
example. All those things are great and
23:02
fine and those are good spiritual reasons.
23:04
But to be honest, like the number one reason we started the
23:06
group that we have right now is because we just knew we needed
23:12
to develop rich friendships. And we had not had those deep,
23:15
deep friendships since we had moved from North Carolina.
23:18
And so it was just like, and we, we had had some close
23:20
friendships and kind of felt some, some pain in that, but
23:24
man, there was a depth of spiritual friendships that we
23:27
just didn't have. And so we decided we're just
23:30
going to be obedient. And if we want that kind of
23:33
friendship, then we have to be that kind of friend.
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So we started to become that kind of friend and started to
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develop that kind of relationship with people.
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And we love our group. We, we can't imagine life
23:43
without those people in our lives right now.
23:45
It's just such a good and growing healthy kind of
23:49
spiritual friendship. You need those kinds of
23:51
friendships. I want to talk a little bit more
23:54
about change because a person doesn't just experience change,
23:57
they're continually being changed again, biologically,
24:00
neurologically, emotionally, spiritually.
24:02
It's a series of adaptations in life.
24:04
And navigating change well isn't about avoiding the disruption.
24:09
Rather, it's about becoming the kind of person who can move
24:13
through change and transition with steadiness, faithfulness
24:17
and growth. We want to develop that.
24:21
In fact, I think a lot of times our personalities is a mixture
24:25
of innate gifting and characteristics that's really
24:28
been formed to show up in a certain way because of our
24:31
environment, because of how we've been nurtured.
24:34
I really do think change is inevitable, but disorientation
24:39
is really optional. Let me kind of give you a
24:41
framework of how to handle change really well.
24:46
Number one, you have to name the change.
24:47
Honestly, most of us don't suffer from change itself, but
24:52
from denying the change or resisting the change.
24:55
So you need to ask what exactly is changing?
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What am I losing? What am I gaining?
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What feels uncertain? Name it, answer it.
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Unname change becomes anxiety in our soul.
25:09
Name change can become manageable and surrendered #2 I
25:14
think you have to expect grief. Even for good changes.
25:19
There's an element of grief. Every change includes loss or a
25:24
letting go of some kind. And some sometimes those things
25:28
that you're letting go aren't bad, they're good things.
25:31
Sometimes they are bad. Either way, you have to
25:33
acknowledge it. I think that you get a
25:35
promotion, it's gonna work. That's a good change.
25:37
But that means that you're going to have to let go of some old
25:40
rhythm. So even though it's a good
25:42
change, there's a a grief of men.
25:45
My old rhythm just doesn't work in this new job reality.
25:49
Or maybe you have a relocation, you move to a new city, you got
25:52
some new exciting things, but that also comes with a loss of
25:55
weight is familiar and comfortable for you.
25:58
Grief is not negative. It is just the mind adjusting to
26:03
a new reality. And healthy navigation of change
26:07
includes allowing space for grief without shame #3 I think
26:14
you can anchor to what doesn't change in the midst of change,
26:18
anchor to what doesn't change. So when your circumstances begin
26:21
to shift, we have to stay stable to something deeper or or less
26:27
moving. And so ask yourself, like, what
26:30
is it that remains true? Who am I at my core?
26:32
What, what values aren't changing in this situation?
26:38
I think from a biblical perspective, you think about how
26:40
God's character doesn't change. We think about how Our Calling
26:45
may deepen even if our role shifts.
26:48
Assignments are temporary, but but Our Calling to be an
26:51
ambassador, well, that hasn't changed at all.
26:53
It just is deepening and taking on a new context and, and then
26:57
of course, our identity in Christ that remains stable even
27:00
when things are, are changing. And so we want to stay anchored
27:03
to truth even when things feel uncertain.
27:08
I think #4 we, we've got to remember in the midst of change
27:12
to slow down before you react. In other words, major changes
27:18
kind of triggers our, our nervous system a little bit.
27:21
So like we, we get to fight, we get to flight or sometimes we
27:24
just freeze up. And I think it's important that
27:27
when a transition is happening or a shift is occurring, or
27:32
definitely during grief and loss, delay making major life
27:37
altering changes, increase your prayer and reflection during
27:41
those times. A decrease impulsive commitments
27:44
just to get busy and to hurry along and to move beyond it.
27:47
No, take your time, go slow, slow down before you overreact
27:53
or react in a way that's on unwise.
27:56
Often times when we get some rest and we slow down, that's
27:59
when we find clarity and perspective again.
28:03
What did Moses do? God had him climb a mountain and
28:06
lookout. Moses gained some perspective
28:10
before he made the decision to pass the leadership on to
28:14
Joshua. I think we need to slow down and
28:17
get some perspective before we make major decisions when things
28:21
around us are changing and shifting.
28:23
I think when we're experiencing change, I think we need to
28:25
build, build micro rhythms of stability.
28:28
So so during seasons of chaos or upheaval or change, create small
28:34
things that can be constant. So have a consistent morning
28:37
routine, have a exercise habit, maybe do a weekly meal
28:41
tradition, regulate, check in conversations.
28:44
One of the things that I do with my kids when we moved here is
28:47
every Thursday we went and got DQ.
28:50
We called it DQ Thursdays. So we got Dairy Queen ice cream
28:53
cones or or Dooley bars or sometimes Blizzards.
28:57
Every Thursday I would pick them up from school and it was their
29:00
favorite that they look for. It was a tradition that we
29:03
started in the midst of their whole world changing.
29:08
They move from one state to a new state, new friends, new
29:11
school, new everything in the spotlight now, man.
29:14
They we established some new rhythms and routines and I think
29:18
have regular check in conversations like like these
29:21
tiny consistencies build safety for you and allow you to
29:28
stabilize in the midst of everything else around you.
29:31
Shifting Another thing to do in the mix of transition is to
29:36
shift from asking why to what now, especially if the change
29:42
was not initiated by you, but you were informed of a change.
29:46
So, so instead of asking why is this happening, which can spiral
29:50
you out of control, ask yourself what now so you can move
29:54
forward. I think that then change can
29:57
become formative when you ask questions like, what is this
30:01
season shaping in me? What is God forming through this
30:06
in my life? What skill is being built in
30:10
this season? And I think growth rarely feels
30:14
good in the moment, but it's important that we embrace it.
30:19
And then finally, I would just say don't confuse a transition
30:24
for failure. In other words, just because
30:26
something is changing doesn't mean someone failed.
30:31
Sometimes it can feel like a set back, right?
30:33
Your career changes, there's a leadership change, unexpected
30:37
redirection in life, maybe a closed door that could feel like
30:41
a disappointment. Look at it as a redirection, not
30:46
as rejection. And I think reframing it that
30:48
way is really imperative. In fact, so many pivotal
30:52
biblical figures experience detours that shaped their
30:56
destiny before they experienced the fulfillment of their
31:00
destiny. And the same is true for you and
31:03
me. When we sit back and we trust
31:05
the Lord, Remember, change has a way of exposing what we cling
31:09
to. It has a way of exposing what we
31:11
fear has a way of exposing what and who we truly trust.
31:16
So if we can handle those changes well, it'll mature
31:20
Patience, trust, humility, resilience, adaptability in us.
31:26
These are things that are learned not in comfort.
31:30
They're they're forged in the midst of transitions that can
31:33
feel uncomfortable. And we're not just surviving the
31:37
change, but we're being shaped through the change.
31:40
And I think that's really, really important.
31:43
Now, I told you on Sunday that I was going to share with you how
31:46
to transition out of a church. And I think that there are times
31:50
when God would have you move from one local church to another
31:54
local church. And I think there's a right way
31:56
to do that. And I think there's a lot of
31:58
wrong ways to do that. And most of the time, whatever
32:00
your gut reaction is, it's probably the wrong one because
32:03
most, most people do it do it wrong.
32:05
Now I've been in full time ministry for 20 plus years, 23
32:10
years, I think something like that.
32:11
And I, I have seen people transition from church to church
32:15
so many times in my lifetime from out of our church to
32:18
another church and into our church.
32:20
And I've only seen it done well a few times.
32:24
And I do mean like I could probably count on one hand how
32:26
many times I've seen it done well healthily and biblically.
32:32
First, let me say it's OK sometimes to, to need to leave a
32:35
church. Sometimes you have to leave a
32:36
church because you're moving locations.
32:39
Sometimes God really is giving you a release or he's actually
32:43
sending you to another, to another body to be a part, to be
32:47
a blessing. And, and, and can I just say God
32:50
rarely sends us or releases us from one location because of our
32:54
discontent. It's normally for a purpose.
32:58
We were typically content, but yet God is nudging us into
33:02
discomfort instead because God's the one who plants and God is
33:06
the one who transplants. But I don't think God frequent
33:10
does that as frequently as we like to think.
33:13
Most of us are led by our emotions and our feelings, not
33:16
by the the voice of God and our convictions on something.
33:20
I think that's that's apparent. I think sometimes we have to
33:22
leave a church because trust just cannot be rebuilt with
33:25
leaders or with other people in the church.
33:27
I think sometimes we have to to change churches because the
33:32
healing that we need can't come in this environment because it's
33:36
the environment that wounded us the deepest.
33:39
I think that's true. Sometimes it's a hard
33:42
acknowledgement, but it is a reality.
33:44
Yeah, I think it's, it's also, I mean, obviously it kind of goes
33:47
without saying, but I'm gonna say it, that it's OK to leave a
33:50
church when maybe the essential doctrine is an error.
33:55
I think that there are some things that you can disagree on,
33:58
but they're not essential doctrine.
34:00
There are some secondary or third level issues in the body
34:05
of Christ that I think that some disagreement where you have room
34:10
because the Bible isn't explicitly clear in one specific
34:14
direction. It kind of talks about, talks
34:16
about a subject from, from both sides.
34:18
I think that there's some room for some of those things.
34:21
But I think on a central doctrine like those things, man,
34:23
you, you, you want to make sure you're in a healthy Bible
34:26
believing Bible holding to, to church in that way.
34:30
And so I think that agreement is helpful in, in that area.
34:34
So because of those things, sometimes you have to leave a
34:37
church. So let me give you 5 things that
34:39
I think are helpful when you're trying to change churches #1
34:44
have a clean heart. You got to clean your heart.
34:47
Don't leave with a, a distorted, A bitter offended heart.
34:52
Have your heart cleaned in repentance and honest
34:54
confession. Like clean your heart.
34:57
Because a dirty heart leaving one place is a dirty heart going
35:01
to the next place. Doesn't matter how much makeup
35:02
you put on it, when you go to the new place, you're still
35:04
bringing a dirty heart. So clean your heart, make sure
35:07
it's not bitter and your heart is free from those.
35:11
Those things number #2 communicate early, often and
35:16
clearly with leadership. Don't don't back channel it.
35:20
Like have direct conversation with your, your pastors.
35:24
Talk with them early, often and clear.
35:27
In fact, most, most pastors that, that I know, I, I know
35:30
there are exceptions to this And, and unfortunately, there's
35:32
probably more exceptions to this then then there aren't.
35:36
But but I think most pastors would rather be a part of a
35:40
prayerful process discerning what God is saying and doing
35:43
than just being informed of the decision saying, well, God said
35:46
to. I think they would rather be be
35:48
a part of that because they want to at least be able to bless
35:51
you. They want to send you out.
35:53
I have met with many people who have at least communicated that
35:57
they were leaving to me directly and we're able to just bless
36:01
them and say, hey, we love you, be blessed.
36:03
Go, go, go forward in it. Those are OK.
36:06
Those are conversations, but communicate early, communicate
36:09
often and communicate clearly. Don't, don't, don't hide it,
36:13
don't beat around the Bush. Don't say Oh no, we've never go
36:16
somewhere only till next week. Like never come back.
36:19
Like don't do that. Don't try to manipulate man.
36:21
Be honest, communicate clearly. I think when you leave, it's
36:24
good to leave quietly but not hidden.
36:27
In other words, leaving quietly without making a bunch of noise.
36:29
We're out of here. We never want to come back
36:31
again. Like leave quiet.
36:33
Be quiet in that departure. Not trying to ruffle or distract
36:38
or distort anything or create division, but, but rather, but
36:43
make sure you don't do it hidden.
36:44
Like don't try to be unseen in it, especially by the leaders,
36:48
but but be quiet in your spirit, in your heart about it.
36:51
Why? Because you don't want to create
36:52
chaos and you don't want to create unnecessary conflict and
36:55
you don't want to create divisiveness.
36:58
The the Lord absolutely has disdain in his soul, in his
37:03
heart for divisiveness. So don't be a part of that.
37:07
I think when you are leaving #4 you should honor the honoring to
37:11
the leaders, honoring to the church.
37:14
Do everything you can not to gossip and slander.
37:17
Even if there are things that are true that you would want to
37:19
say. Try, try, do, do, do everything
37:23
you can to be truthful. But like, and don't, don't be
37:27
dishonouring, don't don't negate that.
37:29
Don't slander or gossip. That's, that's not helpful.
37:33
And then #5 I think be generous on your way out.
37:36
Leave a memorial offering, an offering that you give
37:41
generously, that cleans your heart out and kind of blesses
37:44
them as you go because you want to bless them for any level of
37:49
blessing that, that you've received any care and
37:52
nourishment. And there was a reason you
37:53
attended that church for the years that you did so.
37:56
So be a blessing in memorial to that like every time an end of
38:02
the season happened a lot of times in the Old Testament, they
38:05
marked it with a memorial offering to the Lord.
38:08
So give a generous offering on your way out as a memorial.
38:12
And I just a bless you because if you release blessing well,
38:16
you'll find yourself walking blessed.
38:18
And I think those are just five ways to leave a church.
38:22
Well, in God honoring ways with a clean heart as you go.
38:27
All right, let's get into a few questions and responses.
38:32
I had several questions today. I'm going to do my best to kind
38:36
of hurry through them. Question one, how do I discern
38:41
when a season of my life is ending and God is preparing me
38:44
for something new? First, let me say each type of
38:48
ending or season shift is going to be different.
38:51
And depending on whether we're talking about something that is
38:54
forced on you, but just something that got us leading
38:57
into, I think those would be different.
38:58
So when you feel like God is leading you into a new season or
39:03
preparing you for some change of some kind, here's typically how
39:07
I have experienced that in my life.
39:09
Number one time it it is likely he and a God in unexpected ways
39:15
will start to prepare you or highlight it for you over time.
39:21
It's not all of a sudden, it's a little bit here and then there's
39:25
another thought here and then there's something else that
39:27
happens here and, and it kind of he slowly warms you up to the
39:32
idea or to the impact of something like it.
39:35
And it happens over time. It's rarely quickly, but usually
39:39
it happens over over time. Secondly, I think that it's His
39:42
Word. God's Word will begin to spark
39:45
your movements and bring real conviction to the change.
39:50
And so I have yet to have even insignificant in the small and
39:55
large changes in my life that God did not somehow use His Word
40:00
to initiate, spark, and move me into real conviction around the
40:06
change #3 confirmation. I have found that there will be
40:12
confirmation from outside voices, outside things,
40:16
unsolicited. Confirmation that begins to
40:19
happen that will confirm the shift.
40:22
Normally it it's happened over time, his word has begun to
40:26
speak to me and then confirmation begins to to move,
40:31
begins to occur. Little things, somebody else say
40:34
something, somebody will have a prophetic word that just
40:36
encourages you. There'll be a message that you
40:37
hear that just kind of kind of is, is, is initiating or
40:41
confirming something that his word has already been that God's
40:44
already been whispering that something already been
40:46
happening. So it becomes confirmation, not
40:48
a sign. It becomes a confirmation, not
40:51
a, an initial sign. And then finally, I have found
40:55
that especially when like roles or jobs were shifting that were
41:01
if a relationship was kind of adjusting a friendship or a
41:04
business relationship, typically there is grace that begins to
41:09
lift. In other words, I remember when
41:12
my job was changing from youth pastor and then again, I let go
41:18
of a part of my role of graphic design, especially this graphic
41:21
design. I was always in communications
41:23
and got to the point where I knew that time was coming to an
41:26
end because things that used to be really easy and automatic and
41:30
super creative and things were easy to accomplish.
41:34
We're taking a lot longer. I was laboring a lot more.
41:37
I had to. I felt like I was toiling more
41:41
than producing life with it. And so this race begins to lift
41:46
and there just begins a little bit of a not friction because of
41:49
conflict, but just friction in terms of lack of ease into
41:54
something. And so that that's a way, that's
41:56
not the only confirmation, it's not the only sign.
41:59
Just because something is hard doesn't mean you need to change.
42:02
In fact, that's, that's rarely the case.
42:04
But there is often a a grace and anointing that kind of lifts
42:09
when there's a change of of things coming.
42:13
Next question. What does it practically look
42:16
like to live under spiritual authority while still taking
42:19
personal responsibility for my own faith?
42:22
So I think a big part of this is with rhythms and practices which
42:26
bring diligence and a direction that you move forward in your
42:29
life. We have to recognize that while
42:33
somebody has authority over us, it's still personal stewardship
42:38
that we have for certain things while under their authority.
42:42
So you care for what is yours to steward, even under their
42:48
authority that they have stewardship and really
42:50
responsibilities. Think about it, the children of
42:52
Israel we're under the leadership and spiritual
42:56
authority of Moses. He was giving directions, He was
42:59
giving instructions, He was helping them be be LED and
43:02
guided. However, they were still
43:05
responsible for their attitudes, for the affection that they had
43:08
for the Lord, and for the attention that they gave to the
43:11
Lord versus their attention that they were giving to other idols,
43:14
other gods, other customs, other way of life.
43:17
They had to say no to the distraction and the comparisons
43:20
so that they could wholly consecrate themselves unto to
43:23
the Lord. So there were some things that
43:24
Moses was in charge of, but their response, their attitude,
43:29
they were responsible for some of those actions they stewarded.
43:33
They were accountable for that in their life and the same is
43:36
true in our lives. You may not be the teacher in
43:39
the classroom, but your response to the teacher in the classroom
43:42
is yours. You may not be the coach of the
43:44
team, but how you treat your teammates, that's within your
43:46
domain. You, you may not be the boss,
43:49
but how you are a team player, how well prepared you are.
43:52
Do you show up on time? Do you have a good at?
43:54
There are still things in your care of your responsibility, and
43:58
the same is true of your spiritual life.
44:01
You may not be the one preaching the messages on Sunday, but you
44:04
can learn how to read the Word and discover what God is saying.
44:07
You can walk in obedience to the things the Holy Spirit has
44:11
convicted you of and spoken to your heart.
44:14
You are responsible for your worship as well.
44:20
The next question is this, how can I become a life giving
44:23
spirit agent in everyday situations, not just in a church
44:27
setting or this other question came in that's similar.
44:31
It says I want my kids to understand the importance of
44:34
this idea of being a spirit agent.
44:36
What are some practical ways that I can help them do this in
44:40
their everyday life, at school, practice, or wherever they they
44:45
are? I think #1 being a spirit agent
44:49
is living with the values of the Kingdom first.
44:52
So value based formation, value based parenting, value based
44:57
employee work, right? So, so be value based.
45:00
What are the values that represent the Kingdom of God
45:04
Have those values. What are the standards that are
45:08
God honoring? We've got to live according to
45:11
the standard that God has set in his Kingdom.
45:15
And I do mean in morality. I do mean in how we treat other
45:18
people. I do mean in how forgiving we
45:20
are. I do mean in our willingness to
45:22
develop friendships and be kind and to be courageous.
45:26
I think the standard of our lives should honor God, our
45:30
integrity, our honesty, all of those things, how we show up,
45:34
our we on time, all of those things.
45:36
That's being a good spirit agent.
45:38
It's representing the Holy Spirit and the Kingdom of God in
45:43
the proper way. I think it's good to remind your
45:46
kids that they represent gods to their friends.
45:48
I think it's good to remind ourselves that we represent gods
45:51
in our in our school, in our Co workers, in our work
45:53
environments, in our neighborhoods, on our teams, and
45:56
we want to live with the fruit of the spirit evident in our
46:00
lives. So Lovejoy, peace, patience,
46:04
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,
46:07
self-control, these are the attributes of the fruit of the
46:11
Spirit in us and we want those on display in every environment
46:17
that we're in. I think you need, especially
46:20
with your kids to remember a grace is required because
46:25
failure will be occasional. There's moments you're going to
46:28
fail, you're going to miss it. You're not going to live with
46:30
self-control, you're not going to be patient, you're not going
46:32
to be kind. You got to be willing to give
46:36
grace and to make repentance and repair where where that happens,
46:40
right? And I think when it comes to
46:42
kids as as well as all of us, we need to, to give ourselves
46:45
opportunities or give them opportunities to do spiritual
46:49
things. So pray out loud, lay hands on
46:53
one another and pray for their healing when they've got a
46:55
headache or their cold or the flu, help them have your kids
47:01
choose the scripture that you're going to read for family
47:04
devotion or to read the the devotional around around the
47:08
table time when it when it comes or or lead the way and ask it
47:12
Hey, highs and lows and caring for one another around dinner.
47:16
Invite them into the process of hearing God's voice.
47:19
It may be you and your, your spouse, your family is trying to
47:22
make some decisions about maybe a vacation or a missions trip or
47:28
involvement, or maybe even trying to decide between two
47:31
jobs, right? Just ask them, invite them in,
47:35
give them enough details to pray and say, hey, let's pray and ask
47:38
God if he wants to say anything to us and help them practice
47:41
just hearing God, right? Being connected and directed by
47:44
the Holy Spirit. Model that for them, teach them
47:47
for they give them opportunities to do those things.
47:51
I think model, but also teach them how to pray, bold prayers,
47:55
direct prayers. Teach them how to be a blessing
47:59
to others. At the end of the day, being a
48:01
spirit agent is about bringing blessing to other people to be
48:05
to be a blessing, to be light in the world that they live.
48:09
So teach them how to be a blessing to others.
48:12
So how can they be a blessing and not a burden on the team?
48:17
How can they be a good teammate? How can they be a good
48:21
classmate? How can you be a good worker at
48:24
your job? Like model it, teach it, talk to
48:26
them about it. That's one way that we're able
48:29
to be a blessing, not being a burden.
48:33
It doesn't mean that we don't show up with problems or we
48:36
don't need help from time to time.
48:38
That's not it. It just means that we're going
48:40
to be a blessing and be life giving in all that we say and
48:44
and do. In other words, we're going to
48:45
live with the fruit of the Spirit evident in our in our
48:48
lives. A few more questions here.
48:50
Here's the next one. It's true leaders are
48:53
accountable to God, but what is a Christian wife and mother to
48:57
do if her husband is not born again or is is a Christian?
49:01
He's a Christian, but he refuses to be the spiritual leader of of
49:04
the home. It's a great question.
49:06
I, I think I would liken us back, hearken us back to, to the
49:11
apostle Paul's word in First Corinthians 76 and 7, 6-7 and
49:17
eight, yeah, 6-7 and eight. And he talks about as a wife, as
49:21
a spouse, you just keep honoring God and you keep serving your
49:26
husband as best you can, right? You just keep loving God, loving
49:29
your husband as best you can, and still in the spiritual gaps
49:34
where maybe he's it's missing in your home.
49:37
If you can help your kids learn how to pray.
49:39
If you can help your kids live with godly character, If you can
49:43
help them get into church, like with a humble demeanor and a
49:48
courageous trust in God. Just fill in the spiritual gaps
49:52
as you can. And at the end of the day,
49:54
remember your heart for God. Your passion for God is not your
49:59
husband's responsibility, even if he is the spiritual leader in
50:02
your home. I used to think that it was my
50:05
responsibility to help Amber mature in God.
50:08
That's not her responsibility is to mature in her spiritual walk
50:11
with God. I can't control that.
50:13
I can create a safe environment for him.
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I can be an encouragement. I can, I can do that myself.
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We can do that together. But I can't do that for her.
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And no, no husband can do that for his wife either.
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And no wife can do that for her husband.
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You the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you
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can't make A and drink like that's kind of how it works.
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The end of the day, we we can live such a godly example and we
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can be so in love with Jesus that it's contagious and others
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want to come along with us. I just tend to believe that if
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we live such a compelling witness for what it means to
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love God, honor God and be a spirit agent that's full of the
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Holy Spirit and love and joy and peace and patience and kindness
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and goodness and faithfulness and gentleness and self-control,
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well, eventually people are going to taste and see that God
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is good. And that's what the apostle Paul
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says. He says, who knows, you might
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help save his soul just because you are faithful to Jesus in the
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way that you live everyday life and you have a soft heart
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towards God and towards him. And so that would be my
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encouragement there. How do I hold on to the Lord if
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those over me are making it clear they want me to leave?
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I think the question is coming, like how do I hold on even if
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those over me are making it clear like they want me to
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leave, they want me to part there.
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There's how do I hold on if I feel like the Lord is saying
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stay but people above me are saying go.
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I think you have to recognize who has the authority.
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If the decision is theirs to make, then you have to honor and
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bless as the decision is made. I think we often create
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unnecessary conflict with others because our refusal to embrace
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discomfort, disappointment, or suffering in holy ways.
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We don't get to control others. And often I think we try to
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control others, be trapped because we're trying to stay
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comfortable. And I would caution us with
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that. No, I'm not.
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Here's what I'm not saying that you're a doormat, that you have
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no agency, that you shouldn't stand up for righteousness or be
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a standard bearer. That's not it.
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I think at the end of the day, the Bible says live at peace
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with all people as far as it depends on you.
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So, so as far as it depends on you create and live in, live in
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peace. And, and I think there's a holy
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way about going about some of those things.
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And so if, if you're in a place and, and other people are
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saying, hey, they want to leave, but the Lord isn't releasing
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you, then at some point you, you, you stay faithful until
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they've made a decision. And when they've made a
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decision, just walk in honor of that decision and be a blessing
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as you can and, and to keep your heart pure and clean before God,
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trusting that he cares for you. It kind of leads into the next
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question. It says, I struggle with control
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when I face changes in my life. How can I show trust and
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obedience to God and surrender instead of trying to control
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everything? So when it comes to control, I
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read this just this morning actually, and I'm so glad that I
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did because I think it helps answer the question here.
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Mike Foster, who is the author of the Primal Question Path and
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book, and he in an e-mail today, he said something really
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profound about control. He, he broke control down into 3
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categories. He says there are things that
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you don't control. There are things that you have
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like partial control over and there are things that you have
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full control over. So in the midst of change, in
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the midst of upheaval in life, there are things that you don't
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control. You don't get to control the
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past, you don't get to control the future, and you don't get to
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control other people. You don't get to control those
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things. You have partial control, he
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says, over or partial influence and control over results, health
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and income. You have a little bit of say in
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that, right? Like you may not may have full
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control over how much money you make, but you have some control
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over how that money is spent. So how well you save, you have
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some control there. You have some control over your
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health. You have some control and
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influence over results of some of the things that you're
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endeavoring to do, like when you show up with a bad attic and
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there's some things that you can contribute negatively to.
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So there are some things we have some influence or some control
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over and there are things that we have full control over or
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full influence over. Things like our attention, our
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attitude, our actions, our words.
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These are things we initiate. We have, I can control whether I
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say it or I don't say it. I can control whether I take
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action or I don't take action. I can control my attitude, my
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reaction. I can control what I'm giving my
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attention. I could sit there and scroll all
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day or I can get off and get on a book.
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I can read a book, I can read the Bible.
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I can go for a while. Like I have some control on what
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I'm giving my attention to. And so when we're in the midst
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of change, you have to control the controllables and trust God
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with the things that you don't control.
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So, so be willing to embrace change, even if you didn't
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initiate it, making the most of it, controlling your attention,
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your attitude, your actions, like fueling your heart with the
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proper things. Acknowledge the change and your
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feelings around the change and put it to God.
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I think that's important. Take those things to God, not to
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other people. So, So what do I mean?
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I mean, like, if you're really frustrated with something, talk
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to the Lord about it. I think if there are times where
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we need wisdom from other people and we can give them context to
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to get their wisdom. But but I think, let me let me
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say it this way. I don't find much biblical
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permission to just vent. In fact, think about this in the
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Psalms we see them kind of venting and lamenting to God,
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giving their their cares, being real descriptive even in some of
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their words to the Lord. The, the Psalms are more of a
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prayer journal than a social media post.
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In other words, they're acknowledging the change,
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They're acknowledging their feelings.
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They're acknowledging how how the, the changes that are
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occurring, the shifts, the disappointment, how that's
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impacting them. And they're taking it to God.
56:45
They're not venting to the public.
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They're not letting somebody else have it.
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They're they're just bringing it to the Lord.
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So I think when we bring it to God, we're actually showing that
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we can trust God with those things.
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I heard it said that when we don't take our grief and our
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anguish to the Lord, we're actually revealing how little we
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trust him to heal that pain in our lives.
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I think we can take it to the Lord in in those moments and we
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and we should. Here's the final question.
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For someone currently in a season of change or uncertainty,
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what is 1 spiritual practice that would help keep their heart
57:29
aligned with God? I think solitude with prayer and
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lament or confession. I think stillness, solitude that
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turns into a prayer of lament or confession to the Lord is is
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where you're saying God, this is how I'm experiencing this.
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This is what I'm walking through.
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I think that spiritual practice is more important than any other
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in the midst of change or uncertainty that you would stop,
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you would be still, you would express and talk to the Lord and
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you would listen for the love of God in those moments.
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So I think stillness with Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the most
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important. And to lament is just to express
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or describe the anguish, weight or sorrow and give it to the
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Lord. That's all you're doing.
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You're offering the anguish, the sorrow, the the frustration,
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even that something is changing. You're giving it to the Lord and
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letting him carry that burden for you.
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Scripture says casting all your cares to the Lord.
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Why? Because He cares for you.
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The process of confession, lamenting, grieving, expressing
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that to the Lord is biblical in giving it to the Lord and
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letting Him give His care for you in the midst of change and
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chaos, transition and things in our lives.
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Know that God cares, God sees and God is with you.
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He hasn't left you, He hasn't forsaken you, and He wants you
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to develop rich relationships that can come alongside you in
59:09
those times. But people aren't going to
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automatically do it because they don't read your mind.
59:14
People are always even the best intended people still think
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about themselves and their life. So we have to be courageous
59:21
enough to invite them and have developed enough relationship to
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invite people in so that they can walk with us in seasons of
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change. They can be an encouragement to
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us. And ultimately we can go to God
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with all of those things and letting him care for us.
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Hey, that's it for today. Thanks for all of the questions.
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Thanks for watching, thanks for listening.
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I hope today's episode is how do you have faith for today?
59:47
Please share this with somebody that you think it can be an
59:50
encouragement to as well. And I'll see you next week,
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friends.