Latest / Discourses of Epictetus / 053 - XXII On Friendship

Transcript

053 - XXII On Friendship · Discourses of Epictetus

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Section fifty two of Discourses of Epictetus by Epictetus, translated
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: by George Long. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Read by Christine Rocker, January twenty eighth, twenty twenty two, Westford, Massachusetts,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Book two, Chapter twenty two on friendship. What a man
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: applies himself to earnestly that he naturally loves? Do men
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: then apply themselves earnestly to the things which are bad?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: By no means? Well? Do they apply themselves to things
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: which in no way concern themselves? Not to these either?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: It remains then that they employ themselves earnestly only about
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: things which are good. And if they are earnestly employed
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: about things, they love such things. Also, whoever then understands
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: what is good, can also know how to love. But
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: he who cannot distinguish good from bad, and things which
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: are neither good nor bad from both, how can he
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: possess the power of loving? To love, then, is only
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: in the power of the wise. How is this? A
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: man may say, I am foolish, and yet I love
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: my child. I am surprised, indeed, that you have begun
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: by making the admission that you are foolish for what
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: are you deficient in? Can you not make use of
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: your senses? Do you not distinguish appearances? Do you not
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: use food which is suitable for your body? And clothing
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and habitation? Why then, do you admit that you are foolish?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: It is in truth because you are often disturbed by
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: appearances and perplexed, and their power of persuasion often conquers you.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And sometimes you think these things to be good, and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: then the same things to be bad, and lastly neither
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: good nor bad. And in short, you greef fear, envy,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: are disturbed, you are changed. This is the reason why
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you confess that you are foolish? And are you not
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: changeable in love? But wealth and pleasure? And in a word,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: thinks themselves? Do you sometimes think them to be good
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: and sometimes bad? And do you not think the same
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: men at one time to be good, at another time bad?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: And have you not at one time a friendly feeling
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: towards them, and at another time the feeling of an enemy?
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And do you not at one time praise them and
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: at another time blame them? Yes? I have these feelings also. Well,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: then do you think that he who has been deceived
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: about a man is his friend, certainly not. And he
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: who has selected a man as his friend and is
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: of a changeable disposition, has he good will towards him?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: He has not. And he who now abuses him man
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and afterwards admires him, this man also has no good
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: will to the other. Well, then, did you never see
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: little dogs caressing and playing with one another, so that
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: you might say, there is nothing more friendly, but that
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: you may know what friendship is. Throw a bit of
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: flesh among them, and you will learn. Throw between yourself
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and your son a little estate, and you will know
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: how soon he will wish to bury you, and how
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: soon you wish your son to die. Then you will
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: change your tone and say, what a son I have
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: brought up? He has long been wishing to bury me.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Throw a smart girl between you, and do you the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: old man love her, and the young one will love
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: her too. If a little fame intervene or dangers, it
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: will be just the same. You will utter the words
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: of the father of Admetus. Life gives you pleasure, And
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: why not your father? Do you think that Admetus did
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: not love his own child when he was little, that
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: he was not in agony when the child had a
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: fever that he did not often say I wish I
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: had the fever instead of the child. Then when the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: test the thing came and was near. See what words
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: they utter. Were not Etiochlus and Polyneses from the same
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: mother and from the same father. Were they not brought
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: up together? Had they not lived together, drunk together, slept together,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and often kissed one another, So that if any man
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I think had seen them, would have ridiculed the philosophers
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: for the paradoxes which they utter about friendship. But when
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: a quarrel arose between them about the royal power, as
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: between dogs about a bit of meat, see what they say, Polyneses,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: where will you take your station before the towers? Etiocles?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Why do you ask me this? Polyneses? I will place
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: myself opposite and try to kill you. Etiocles, I wish
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to do the same. Such are the wishes that they utter,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: for universally, do not be deceived. Every animal is attached
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: to nothing so much as to its own interest. Whatever
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: then appears to it an impediment to this interest, whether
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: this be a brother or a father, or a child,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: or beloved or lover, It hates, spurns, curses, for its
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: nature is to love nothing so much as its own interest.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: This is father and brother, and kinsmen, and country and God.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: When then the gods appear to us to be an
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: impediment to this, we abuse them and throw down their
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: statues and burn their temples, as Alexander ordered the temples
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: of a Esculapius to be burned when his dear friend died.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: For this reason, If a man put in the same
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: place his interest, sanctity, goodness, and country, and parents and friends,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: all these are secured. But if he puts in one
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: place his interest in another, his friends, and his country,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and his kinsman, and justice itself, all these give way,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: being borne down by the weight of interest. For where
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: the eye and the mind are placed to that place
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: of necessity, the animal inclines. If in the flesh there
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: is the ruling power, if in the will it is there,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and if it is in externals, it is there. If
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: then I am there where my will is, then only
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: shall I be a friend such as I ought to be,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: and son and father. For this will be my interest
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: to maintain the character of fidelity, of modesty, of patience,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: of abstinence, of active cooperation, of observing my relations towards all.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: But if I put myself in one place and honesty
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: in another, then the doctrine of Epicurius becomes strong, which
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: asserts either that there is no honesty, or it is
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: that which opinion holds to be honest virtuous. It was
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: through this ignorance that Athenians and the Lacedaemonians quarreled, and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: the Thebans with both, and the Great King quarreled with Hellas,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: and the Macedonians with both, and the Romans with the Gatae,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and still earlier the Trojan War happened for these reasons.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Alexander was the guest of Menelaeus, and if any man
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: had seen their friendly disposition, he would not have believed
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: anyone who said that they were not friends. But there
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: was cast between them, as between dogs a bit of
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: meat woman, and about her war arose. And now, when
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: you see brothers to be friends appearing to have one mind,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: do not conclude from this anything about their friendship, not
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: even if they swear it, and say that it is
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: impossible for them to be separated from one another. For
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: the ruling principle of a bad man cannot be trusted,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: it is insecure has no certain rule by which it
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: is directed, and is overpowered at different times by different appearances.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: But examine not what other men examine, if they are
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: born of the same parents and brought up together and
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: under the same pedagogue. But examine this only wherein they
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: place their interest, whether in externals or in the will.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: If in externals, do not name them as friends, no
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: more than name them trustworthy or constant, or brave or free.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Do not name them even men, if you have any judgment,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: for that is not a principle of human nature, which
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: makes them bite one another and abuse one another, and
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: occupy deserted places or public places as if they were mountains,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: and in courts of justice display the acts of robbers.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Nor yet that which makes them intemperate and adulterers and corruptors,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: nor that which makes them do whatever else men do
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: against one another. Through this one opinion, only that of
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: placing themselves and their interests in the things which are
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: not within the power of their will. But if you
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: hear that in truth these men think the good to
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: be only there where will is, and where there is
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: a right use of appearances, no longer trouble yourself. Whether
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: they are father or son or brothers, or have associated
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: a long time, and our companions. But when you have
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: ascertained this, only confidently declare that they are friends, as
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: you declare that they are faithful, that they are just.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: For where else is friendship, then where there is fidelity
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and modesty, where there is a communion of honest things
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: and of nothing else. But you may say, such a
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: one treated me with regard so long, and did he
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: not love me? How do you know, slave, if he
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: did not regard you in the same way as he
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: wipes his shoes with a sponge, or as he takes
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: care of his beast, how do you know when you
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: have ceased to be useful as a vessel, he will
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: not throw you away like a broken platter. But this
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: woman is my wife, and we have lived together so long,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: And how long did Efrefiel live with Amphiarus? And was
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: the mother of children and of many? But a necklace
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: came between them? And what is a necklace? Is the
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: opinion about such things? That was the beastial principle. That
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: was the thing which broke asunder the friendship between husband
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and wife, that which did not allow the woman to
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: be a wife, nor the mother to be a mother.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And to let every man among you who has seriously
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: resolved either to be a friend himself or to have
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: another for his friend, cut out these opinions, hate them,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: drive them from his soul. And thus, first of all,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: he will not reproach himself. He will not be at
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: variance with himself, He will not change his mind. He
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: will not torture himself in the next place to another. Also,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: who is like himself, he will be altogether and completely
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: a friend. But he will bear with the man who
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: is unlike himself. He will be kind to him gentle,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: ready to pardon on account of his ignorance, on account
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of his being mistaken in things of the greatest importance.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: But he will be harsh to no man, being well
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: convinced of Plato's doctrine that every mind is deprived of
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: truth unwillingly. If you cannot do this, yet you can
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: do in all other respects as friends do. Drink together,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: and lodge together, and sail together. And you may be
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: born of the same parents, for snakes also are, But
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: neither will they be friends nor you, so long as
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: you retain these beastial and cursed opinions. And of Book two,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Chapter twenty two