Latest / The Payments Shed / Ep. 40 - Who Decides What Fintech Talks About? Inside the Content Engine of Money20/20 Europe with Oliver Smith, Head of Content @ Money 20/20 Europe

Transcript

Ep. 40 - Who Decides What Fintech Talks About? Inside the Content Engine of Money20/20 Europe with Oliver Smith, Head of Content @ Money 20/20 Europe · The Payments Shed

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  Welcome to the Payment Shed. Podcast The weekly podcast that
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  dives into the big topics, trends and people shaping the
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  world's of payments, fintech and business leadership of your two
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  Co hosts, myself Grant Evans and Justin Hanna.
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  Welcome back to another episode of The Payment Shed.
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  I am Justin Hanna and joined by Grant Evans.
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  Today we are joined by Oliver Smith, Head of Content for Money
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  2020 Europe. Oliver, thank you so much for
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  joining us. Tell us a little bit more about
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  yourself. Yeah, it's great to be here.
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  As you said, my name is Oliver Smith.
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  I'm the Head of Content for Money 2020 Europe, which means
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  I'm responsible for the programming across all of our
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  stages, our speakers, our agenda and really making sure that we
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  have the best content in the fintech industry when it comes
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  to to large scale conferences. And what about your career prior
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  to to Money 2020? You've obviously had an
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  extensive sort of journey in the fintech world.
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  Can you tell us a little bit about that before taking the
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  Money 2020? Job So yeah, I've I've only been
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  here for seven months and before that I was a journalist.
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  I started off in at City AM as a tech reporter.
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  I moved to Forbes, to Fortune. And as I was a journalist, I, I
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  gradually discovered, you know, this, this incredible fintech
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  sectors, first of all in London when I was at City AM, you know,
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  I went to Monzo's first office opening and I started to see
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  what was going on. And that really led me down the
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  rabbit hole into fintech. And I I absolutely still have
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  that excitement and enthusiasm about about the industry today.
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  So you've been through, you know, the hype cycles, the
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  funding crash, the layoffs, the consolidation.
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  The packaging. The unpackaging if you like of,
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  of fintech that we've seen, do you think that the tone of like
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  your speaker applications and founder conversations with
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  regards to money 2020? And I know you've only been
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  there seven months, but I'm sure you've been building or attended
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  yourself of course previously. Do you think since sort of 2021
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  that post COVID time, as I look at it like the journey that
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  fintech's been on in the last few years has changed
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  dramatically? Do you do you think you've seen
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  that evolution with the event? Yeah, I think you, you
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  absolutely do. You know, I look at the speaker
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  line up 10 years ago. So in 2016, who was who was on
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  the mainstage at Money 2020 in Europe, You know, Tom Bloomfield
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  from Monzo, Nikolai from Revolute, you know, B to C
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  brands, consumer facing fintechs.
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  And when I think about the kinds of speakers we're programming
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  today for the for the show in in June, it has shifted remarkably.
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  You know, B to B is the new B to C.
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  It's very much where all the action is infrastructure,
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  crypto, defy. The conversation has changed
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  massively. And I think part of that is the
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  funding landscape. I think the world has changed.
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  I also think traditional institutions have caught up in
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  many ways with the disruptors that we saw back in the
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  20/16/2017 time. You know, your High Street bank
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  now has an app, which some would argue is as good as what's being
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  offered by the challenges. The gap has closed.
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  There's no longer that kind of blue water for for for fintechs
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  to dive into in the consumer space.
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  And that's why the excitement has in some ways shifted to B to
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  BI. Think some of them have closed
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  the gap. I think you're being quite
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  generous. There, it depends who you're
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  back with, yeah. Do you think some do you think
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  the vibe within that Fintech space now is kind of more mature
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  or or is it more more cautious that people aren't necessarily
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  putting themselves out there as much?
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  I think it's fair to say that there's less sort of crazy
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  experimentation going on. I think post 2023 especially,
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  that was the year where the funding landscape really
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  shifted. We saw those big drops in the
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  numbers. I think that caused a race to
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  profitability and I think it led to less radical decisions being
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  made, maybe less experimentation in some places.
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  I feel sad about that because I, I quite like, you know, the
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  early days of fintech when that experimentation was happening.
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  But I think this is the normal cycle of a maturing industry.
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  You know, there's, there's more certainty at least on what works
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  now and more companies are focusing on on nailing what
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  what's working and following the leaders, I guess.
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  So yeah, things have changed and.
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  What do you think the biggest mind shift in mindset shift has
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  been in the last two or three years than when you think, I
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  mean, there's supposed to be a narrative that founders are just
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  telling better stories here as well and they are still sort of
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  working in the shadows on some cool stuff or things that maybe
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  slip, slip away from that B2B focus as well.
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  But do you think there's been a big sort of mindset shift?
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  And is there any link to maybe some sort of VC funding and what
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  people are backing like you said in that regards as well?
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  Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, five
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  years ago you had, you know, every VC in London had to have a
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  certain element of their portfolio allocated to fintech
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  because it was, it was what it was.
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  Nowadays, the demand for AI and those kinds of AI investments
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  means that what was previously set aside for fintech has been
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  squished and reduced. And now every, every VC has to
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  have AI in their portfolio. Fintech has done what it can do
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  to adapt to that. You know, a lot of fintechs
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  dress re redress themselves in a different way to try and try and
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  fit in that category, but it's undoubtedly that, that, that
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  funding has been squished. You mentioned mindset shift and
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  I, I think the real mindset shift for me and, and from what
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  I see is around topics like crypto and defy.
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  Because again, I remember in 2012 when I was at city AM and
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  we put Bitcoin at $100 on the front page.
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  And it was, it was laughed at, you know, we in the office and
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  beyond, but it was, it was seen as a, you know, and, and
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  actually for many years it was, it was disregarded and it was
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  downplayed and, and mainstream finance and mainstream fintech
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  even dismissed what was happening there.
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  I think post post 2020, post COVID, whatever that is, there
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  has been a shift. I think it's seen very seriously
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  now. I think stable coins are seen
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  very seriously. I think the regulators are on
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  board. I think the central banks are on
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  board. I think politicians when they
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  get their head around it, I think are on board as well.
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  For me and, and for money 2020, that's now taking center stage
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  for us. You know, we have a whole
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  section called the intersection, which is all about, you know,
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  defy meeting trad Phi, that kind of intersection of, of those two
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  groups. It's amazing because again, I, I
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  just think back to 2012 when we were laughing at it and for many
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  years we were no one's laughing anymore.
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  It's it's very serious now. We've had a couple of guests,
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  some recently as well that have kind of they've called out their
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  dislike of the term fintech now, even because I think fintech was
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  portrayed as this new shiny thing this, you know,
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  challenger, if you like. And now what were those initial
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  fintechs are mature multi billion dollar pound dollar
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  businesses, whatever you want to say there.
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  And maybe now fintech just has a different name.
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  It's disruptor, it's disruption, right?
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  Like, yeah, do you think that's a fair comment?
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  I think it's really fair. I think, you know, putting a
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  brand name on something is quite natural in the kind of evolution
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  of it. We name something until it
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  becomes normal Fintech in many ways.
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  When I show my my parents or my friends the Monzo app, they
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  don't think of it as special, unique anymore.
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  Maybe in 2016 they they did, but nowadays it's a banking app.
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  I've got one of those. I think about other trends that
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  we see at the moment, like agentic payments, for instance.
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  At the moment we put a label on it because it's unique.
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  It's different. In five years time they'll just
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  be payments. You know, we won't call them
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  agentic payments anymore. It'll just be the way things
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  work. So I agree, I think fintech as a
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  label is, is shifting and changing.
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  I think it still has a space maybe within the industry, but
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  certainly for consumers and outside of the industry.
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  It's just finance now, which which I think is good.
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  And so do you think you mentioned about agentic
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  commerce, you're going to feel like that's the strongest
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  segment that's on the ground right now?
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  Yeah. I, I think what's happening in
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  Agentic as a whole and for us at Money 2020, it's one of our four
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  pillars of the event. So agentic AI in the agentic
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  ages is one of our four content pillars.
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  What is happening in that space has a lot of potential and
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  there's a lot of excitement around it.
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  I think because we've got big tech weighing in, we've got
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  fintech and traditional finance weighing in and we've got a lot
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  of genuine engagement and excitement from consumers.
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  It's that kind of perfect coming together of the three.
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  I think we can all see the potential for what could be.
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  We're definitely not there yet. There's a lot of work to do, but
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  I think what could, what could become there is amazing.
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  And I think about not just payments and commerce, but other
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  elements. I was speaking to someone today
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  about, you know, agentic lending.
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  You know, what happens when lending can happen through the
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  medium of, of agents and AI? What happens when it's not just
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  commerce and buying, it's actually borrowing and buying?
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  I think there's there's some fantastic exciting kind of ideas
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  and concepts that people are working on.
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  And you get thousands and thousands of submissions for,
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  you know, there's probably been a fair few agentic commerce
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  applications in that this year from payments companies in
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  particular. But when you're trolling for all
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  those thousands of submissions, are there any brands that you're
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  you're looking at and going, These guys are getting some real
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  traction at the moment. They're generating a huge amount
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  of noise in the market. Maybe these are the next big
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  disruptors. Yeah.
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  So just to explain the, the process, how we build money 2020
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  before Christmas, we had our call for content, which is where
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  we essentially it's a, it's a, it's a call for the industry to
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  submit their best and brightest ideas, sessions, speakers,
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  moderators. We really want to hear what's
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  happening in the industry. We have around 1000 submissions
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  through that process. And then my team go through them
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  with a tooth comb looking for those, those very ideas you're
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  talking about. It's a long, difficult process.
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  But from that we're looking to extract the best ideas, the
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  biggest ideas. It's it's not just about the
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  biggest names, it's also about those that can tap into the kind
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  of content we're trying to program.
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  So I mentioned AI in the agentic age, but we have three other
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  pillars, regulation in the fast lane, which is looking at the
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  speed and change of regulation around the world.
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  We have the great rebundling you mentioned kind of the
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  unbundling, rebundling of the industries before.
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  We're looking at this coming together of the industry at the
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  moment when a bank can't just be a bank, it has to do stable
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  coins, it has to do tokenized deposits as to all of these
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  things, this coming together, money stack rewired, which is
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  looking at the tech stack of the bank, stable coins and beyond.
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  So all of the pieces that are coming together there.
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  So we're looking for submissions that tick a lot of boxes, and
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  sometimes it can be submissions that do things just differently.
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  Do they say, look, the concept for our panel, it's not just a
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  panel, it's a debate. It's not just a debate, it's a
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  big debate. And we're going to have a
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  contentious like coming together of two sides of an argument.
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  We're looking for all of those pieces.
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  Do you feel, you mentioned that you mentioned the word banks a
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  couple of times which is interesting.
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  Do you do you feel that kind of banks have come in to try and
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  reclaim some of that kind of narrative power and even like
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  Money 20 into where maybe they had been losing out some of the
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  challenges over the last few years?
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  Yeah. I think, you know, I think the
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  advantage banks have with some of these trends that we're
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  seeing at the moment, stablecoins being the most
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  obvious 1 is that banks can become an enabler for, for this
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  new sector. So we've already seen nine, it
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  was 9. Now it's 10 European banks
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  coming together to form a stable coin consortium to launch their
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  own euro denominated stable coin led by ING and some other large
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  European banks. BBVA have now joined making it
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  10 of them. I think it's, it's showing that
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  banks can actually not just be fast followers or or slow
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  followers maybe in some of these earlier revolutions, but
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  actually when it comes to stablecoins especially, this can
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  be beneficial for them and their customers and they can be part
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  of the leadership of it, which is exciting to see.
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  And it's maybe a slightly different place that banks
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  haven't been in before. I think we've got more like
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  quick fire questions for you than any guests we've ever had
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  on before as well because money 2020 just has so much going on
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  and conscious of times that I just want to ask a few quick
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  ones as we kind of round up this, this initial part of the
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  conversation. So embedded finance still hot or
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  plateauing for you? Maturing, I would say, you know,
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  there was a lot of excitement. I, I know this is supposed to be
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  a quick fire question, so I'll try my best.
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  There was a lot of excitement a few years ago.
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  I think similar to what we touched on with fintech, the
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  excitement has slightly been drained out the room by some of
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  these other topics, agentic, AI, stablecoins, etcetera.
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  But what I think's interesting is that I think AI and agentic
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  is a pathway to actually reinvigorate some sectors of of
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  finance that have become maybe slightly less exciting.
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  So open banking I think is a really good example.
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  You know, suddenly open banking data in an AI agentic world
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  becomes a lot more interesting. Like if that data can be
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  unlocked and passed over to an agent, that's interesting.
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  Embedded finance. Similarly, a lot of the stuff,
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  you know, agentic payments versus embedded finance, there's
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  a lot of similarities starting to come together here.
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  So certainly maybe not as sexy as it was a couple of years ago,
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  but I think there's still room for.
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  Open banking needed the kind of AI boom, I think, didn't it
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  really? Would this be money for Europe?
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  I'm going to ask you obviously about some of the the big
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  European brands that we see. Do we think Europe is still
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  producing more regionally strong players or are we still
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  producing players that can go on to the global stage and really
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  dominate? That's a difficult question.
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  Do you mean within fintech or do you mean startups in general?
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  I think just generally and it you know, it can be startups as
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  well. I think I hate to sound like a
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  broken record because I think people have been saying this for
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  years, but I think Europe still has work to do.
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  We certainly aren't churning out the kind of multi billion dollar
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  companies that I think our ambition is.
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  But I think has progress been made in the last, you know, 5-10
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  years? Yes, but it's a shame that we're
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  still here today asking that question because that question
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  was being asked a decade ago, probably will be asked in a
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  decade's time. I think the advantage Europe has
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  is that we do turn out very good companies and we do turn out
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  companies that are maybe not world changing, but certainly
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  regionally impactful whether in fintech or beyond.
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  But but do we you know, are we yet rivaling the Googles, the
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  Apples, the Amazons of the world?
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  Probably not just yet. And final one then.
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  So we walk into the room at Money 2020 Europe this year.
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  What's the first impression that we get around the theme that
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  you've gone for? I know you've got the four
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  pillars, but what's shouting out to me as I enter the room?
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  Or I, I would say our stages, you know, the, the work and the
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  effort that goes into the six stages that we have in Europe
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  this year is phenomenal. You know, these are world class
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  teams building some of the best stages in the world.
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  Our our orbital stage is this fantastic light show of in a
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  darkened environment with this circular theme to it.
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  It's like nothing you've ever seen before.
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  And then on the polar opposite, we have Money Lab, which is our
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  new immersive learning stage. Beautiful white stage in this
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  small intimate environment that's really about teasing out,
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  learning, encouraging small groups to work together and have
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  deep dive conversations. We have a phenomenal creative
• 16:19
  team and I can't wait until you. Get us excited about it.
• 16:22
  You, you mentioned before around kind of how you get to be on
• 16:27
  stage at Money 2020. How do you balance kind of that
• 16:30
  height versus substance when you're going through all the
• 16:33
  applications? It must be quite difficult,
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  right, Because everyone's selling something.
• 16:36
  Yeah, yeah. So what I got world touch on
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  there is depth because I think a lot of people when they think of
• 16:42
  money 2020, they think about you know a really big stage and
• 16:46
  having high level 50,000 foot kind of conversations strategic
• 16:50
  about the industry. Actually what we get asked for
• 16:54
  most of the feedback is around is on depth of content.
• 16:58
  People don't just want the 50,000 foot view, they also want
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  the ground level, how things are working and being put into
• 17:05
  practice. Part of this is what has
• 17:07
  inspired Money Lab and we're also doing some stage takeovers
• 17:11
  where we dive deeper into certain topics.
• 17:14
  People really want depth of content, so I would encourage
• 17:19
  anyone wanting to talk at Money 2020 to actually look, look
• 17:24
  inwards at what they're doing, what they're working on, how
• 17:27
  they're implementing things, what they're building.
• 17:29
  Try not to follow the trend. Think about how you're adopting
• 17:33
  AI within your organization. What learnings and lessons are
• 17:36
  there there? That's what I would say.
• 17:39
  I think I think depth is, is what people are really hungry
• 17:42
  for Money 2020. And what themes don't make the
• 17:46
  agenda that you maybe wish could make the agenda in the future?
• 17:50
  That's a good question. I, I, so leadership and sort of
• 17:57
  professional development is one of those topics that I think
• 18:03
  always deserves more time than it's given.
• 18:05
  And we would love to give more time to that kind of content.
• 18:10
  It's hard because our stage time is so valuable and and so
• 18:14
  precious, but at the same time, I this year and in the future
• 18:19
  years, I'd love to spend more of our stage time actually talking
• 18:23
  about personal development, leadership skills, you know, how
• 18:27
  people can further their career within our industry.
• 18:30
  It's not your traditional fintech conference content, but
• 18:34
  I think it deserves a place. And actually we have two
• 18:36
  programs not on the show floor, Rise Up and Amplify, which are
• 18:40
  focused on elevating different groups within Fintech and
• 18:44
  supporting and they do so much great work on on that kind of
• 18:47
  leadership style content. And I'd love to bring more of
• 18:50
  that to our stages. Sure you could.
• 18:51
  Probably get some recruitment companies to sponsor that
• 18:53
  professional. Development.
• 18:54
  Stage as well today's. Episode is sponsored by ISX
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  For supporting the show so. So.
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  What kind of in your opinion Jenny makes a great speaker at a
• 19:44
  Money 2020 event? I think it's a speaker who can
• 19:47
  put themselves in the shoes of of the audience and understand
• 19:51
  why delegates come to Money 2020.
• 19:54
  They come to learn, they come to network, they come to sell.
• 19:58
  Some of them can do deals, meet new people.
• 20:01
  But I think the best submissions certainly we have are the ones
• 20:05
  that understand Money 2020. They're not just doing a generic
• 20:09
  presentation that the type of which you know they have in a
• 20:12
  folder somewhere and they roll out every show.
• 20:15
  They're thinking about Money 2020 and how they can do things
• 20:18
  differently. You know, the best ones, the
• 20:21
  very best are the ones that say, look, we're not just going to
• 20:23
  come and do a presentation or a panel.
• 20:26
  We're going to come and reveal some exclusive news on your
• 20:29
  stage with some of our partners in the room.
• 20:33
  And your audience will be the most special people in the world
• 20:37
  because they'll be there when we announce that news.
• 20:40
  You know it it it doesn't always happen, but that is magic.
• 20:44
  Yeah, I like the partner essence of that.
• 20:47
  I actually have a customer there with you that you can can talk
• 20:50
  through their real world problems with or things that
• 20:52
  you've helped them to to resolve.
• 20:54
  I mean money 2020 is not just a three day event anymore, right.
• 20:58
  I mean, yeah, that's all of the events that you have.
• 21:01
  I mean, it's a, it's a media platform.
• 21:04
  Is it a all year community? Like how would you define what
• 21:07
  money 2020 has become now? Yeah, it's grown, you know, far
• 21:12
  beyond what it what it started off as in 2012 in Vegas, you
• 21:16
  know, money, 2020, USA, the first show.
• 21:19
  Then we came to Europe in 2016 and since then it's gone to
• 21:23
  Asia, the Middle East, you know, 4 shows across the calendar year
• 21:27
  all around the world. And as you're quite rightly say,
• 21:30
  within that year, we also have podcasts.
• 21:33
  We have Taking Stock, which is our, our live show with the New
• 21:36
  York Stock Exchange. We have a huge amount of stuff
• 21:39
  going on. We have reports, we have
• 21:41
  webinars. It, it has grown so big.
• 21:45
  I think part of the challenge we have is, you know, it's almost
• 21:50
  too much to, to unpack and explain as a delegate, you, you
• 21:53
  go on the website, what do these, what do these guys do?
• 21:56
  They do so much, we do so much. So how can we help all of our
• 22:00
  delegates to understand and explore across what we do?
• 22:04
  Part of it is our job, you know, to present it better to say, you
• 22:07
  know, yes, you're, you're based in Europe and you're coming to
• 22:10
  the Europe show. But did you know we have three
• 22:12
  other shows around the world? And actually, if you're
• 22:14
  expanding into these markets, these shows are the places you
• 22:18
  can, you can get your foot in the door and, and start that
• 22:20
  journey. So yeah, it's it's a lot, but
• 22:25
  we're working on it. And you want people repurposing
• 22:27
  content beyond the main event. I mean, we, we obviously better
• 22:31
  conscious decision when we were in Vegas last year that we
• 22:33
  wanted to get our content out real time during the event.
• 22:38
  Because I feel like a lot of people that have FOMO anyway
• 22:41
  that like I wish I could be there, but it helps those people
• 22:43
  to kind of bring it to life. I mean, if you, I don't know if
• 22:48
  you've done the live, you might have done the live streaming for
• 22:49
  ticket holders before or a week after.
• 22:52
  But I mean, doing have you ever thought about doing like some
• 22:54
  live stream stuff to non ticketed individuals?
• 22:56
  Do you do any of that from a content point of view?
• 22:58
  We don't, I think FOMO, but also the magic of of money 2020 is,
• 23:02
  is having the ecosystem in the room that is, that is where the
• 23:07
  value is for everyone at our show.
• 23:10
  I think, you know, we're, we're happy for people to open the
• 23:14
  door and show what's going on, but I think we want to make sure
• 23:17
  that the best place, you know, the, as we say, the place Money
• 23:20
  does business is in the show is at Money 2020.
• 23:24
  That's where you're going to meet people you've never met
• 23:26
  before, meet people you do know and you bump into them there and
• 23:29
  you think what a small world this is.
• 23:30
  We really want it to be that ecosystem in one room.
• 23:35
  I think there's a lot of space for other media and content.
• 23:39
  That's why we have a podcast. We record episodes on site.
• 23:41
  We have two podcast booths. We'll be recording all week, but
• 23:45
  really that live event experience, we we package that
• 23:49
  and we want people to come to experience it themselves.
• 23:51
  The best way to be at Money 2020 is to be at Money 2020, right?
• 23:54
  Couldn't have said it better myself.
• 23:56
  Kind of what responsibility do you feel then as as a platform
• 23:59
  kind of shaping that fintech discourse across Europe?
• 24:02
  Yeah. So we very much see ourselves as
• 24:05
  part of that ecosystem. We don't sit in a, in a sort of
• 24:11
  a box for, for 11 months and, and build and then throw it out
• 24:14
  there. My team, the content team, the
• 24:17
  first part of our journey starts on the, the first day after post
• 24:21
  show. That's when we start our
• 24:23
  research phase. So we do, we did 30 interviews
• 24:27
  last year. We're planning to do 50
• 24:29
  interviews this year, speaking to people all across our
• 24:33
  industry. What are you seeing at the
• 24:35
  moment? What are the latest trends?
• 24:36
  What's happening within your organization?
• 24:38
  What should we be focusing on? Asking those questions,
• 24:41
  recording all the answers and building a picture of what is
• 24:45
  happening. Our research phase lasts about
• 24:47
  two or three months. And through that, that is where
• 24:49
  we craft our content pillars. So really we pull these from the
• 24:54
  industry and, and, and everything else filters down
• 24:58
  from there. So, yeah, for us, it's, it's
• 25:00
  really that research phase is crucial in, in understanding.
• 25:03
  And bear in mind that there's not just one research phase
• 25:06
  because we have 4 events around the world.
• 25:08
  So we have 4 research phases across 4 events.
• 25:12
  And they're all making those phone calls, they're all doing
• 25:14
  those interviews and pulling all that information together.
• 25:17
  And the advantage that that I have, that my team have is we
• 25:20
  can look across Asia, what are the biggest trends in Asia, the
• 25:24
  USA, North America, everything happening there.
• 25:28
  And then we get that advantage to pull together and say, right,
• 25:32
  what's going to happen at our show, Yeah.
• 25:34
  How much influence do sponsors exert on the themes of the
• 25:37
  shows? No, that that research phase is
• 25:41
  entirely on its own and our call for content is open to anyone,
• 25:46
  sponsors and non sponsors alike. All of the decisions that we
• 25:51
  make behind the editorial content on our stages is made by
• 25:56
  my team independently and is not influenced by anyone else.
• 26:00
  I think the call for content, I, I, I think, you know, some
• 26:02
  people look at it and go, what's going on?
• 26:04
  How does this, how does the sausage get made?
• 26:06
  But actually it is our team going through submissions,
• 26:10
  ranking and rating them and trying to just find the the
• 26:13
  magic in there. No, I like that.
• 26:15
  I think, you know, some of these events do get that outside
• 26:17
  influence and I think staying true to that value is good.
• 26:20
  It's our first time doing the the US one last year as well.
• 26:22
  We've done Europe lots, but it was noticeably different to me,
• 26:26
  like the 2 events felt so and I'm sure they all have their own
• 26:30
  flavor and you know, audiences different.
• 26:33
  More people wearing suits in the US actually lived in Europe
• 26:36
  standing out in our Nikes. But yeah, I really enjoyed it.
• 26:39
  So zooming forward then and I remember AI was it 2 years ago
• 26:44
  when I was like AI and we did a whole like AI is everywhere,
• 26:46
  money for 20 is AI dominance in the agenda in some guys the next
• 26:51
  three or four years potentially. Sorry, the question is, is it
• 26:55
  going to still be? Is it still going to be
• 26:57
  dominating? Because you know, you have
• 26:58
  different flavors, you had the AI initial breakout.
• 27:00
  AI can help you do this, this and this.
• 27:01
  Then we have a Gen. tick and AI is going to constantly evolve
• 27:04
  and learn, right. So do you think there's there's
• 27:06
  going to be a continual theme that AI in some way, shape or
• 27:08
  form over the next few years is is quite heavily set within the
• 27:11
  agenda? I think so, but I think what
• 27:13
  you're seeing you know two years ago probably a lot of those
• 27:18
  presentations conversations were those 50,000 foot kind of ones
• 27:22
  where. There's no experts.
• 27:24
  Yeah, yeah. And and there was no there,
• 27:26
  there might not have been any actual real world applications
• 27:31
  like this is what we're hoping to do.
• 27:33
  This is what we're trying to do. Maybe last year we started to
• 27:36
  see some of those use cases come out.
• 27:38
  I mean, by this summer, there are pretty well known household
• 27:42
  brands that are going to have even more real world
• 27:46
  applications of AI energetic that that all of us will be
• 27:50
  downloading on our phones and trying out.
• 27:53
  I think that's the shift that we're seeing.
• 27:55
  And it's a bit like our fintech conversation earlier maturity,
• 27:58
  you know, moving into practice. I'm so excited about some of the
• 28:03
  things that are going to be shown off and revealed on our
• 28:05
  show floor because this is tangible now.
• 28:08
  It's not, it's not intangible like it was before.
• 28:11
  One of my predictions this year was also about, you know, Chachi
• 28:16
  BT and whether whether some of these apps might also start to
• 28:20
  enter our industry in a way. And, and, and I think we are on
• 28:24
  the verge of seeing that, you know, Chachi BT does health now,
• 28:26
  so it can connect all of your health data and start to give
• 28:29
  you recommendations. It's not a.
• 28:31
  Good thing for me. But they, they made an
• 28:34
  acquisition last year of a, of a New York fintech that does
• 28:37
  personalized financial recommendations.
• 28:40
  So how long is it going to be before something like that comes
• 28:43
  along? When I think about Claude and Co
• 28:46
  work, you know, we're seeing AI really start to integrate with,
• 28:52
  you know, these office tools we use.
• 28:55
  How long before it's integrating with your bank account, bringing
• 28:57
  us back to open banking? Yeah.
• 29:00
  So I'm, I'm super excited. It's it's those tangible, real
• 29:02
  world use cases. Do you think as as these
• 29:05
  businesses get more mature and build up more products for
• 29:07
  acquisitions, are we heading towards more and more
• 29:10
  consolidation as well? Potentially, I think how you
• 29:14
  know how this plays out is is speculation.
• 29:18
  You know, there have been many bets over the years that banks,
• 29:23
  that banking would become dumb pipes in this conversation.
• 29:28
  You know, Fintech, the V1 of fintech was all about that.
• 29:31
  You know, your bank, maybe they'll be the back end to your
• 29:34
  fintech that that serves you. That didn't happen.
• 29:38
  So I'm not going to say that it's going to happen in this
• 29:40
  revolution. But I certainly think that big
• 29:43
  tech has has for long had an ambition to play in financial
• 29:48
  services. We've heard that.
• 29:50
  We've seen that with Apple Pay and the like.
• 29:52
  I think AI is no different. I think there's an ambition
• 29:56
  there to move into more and more parts of our lives and our
• 30:00
  financial lives. It's some of our most personal
• 30:03
  precious data and information. And it's a place that fintech
• 30:07
  before and maybe AI now can actually help people in the
• 30:11
  biggest ways. I think about financial advice
• 30:13
  being the obvious 1, you know, robo advice, again, to talk
• 30:17
  about other buzzwords that have died to death.
• 30:19
  Robo advice 567 years ago was a really exciting trend.
• 30:24
  This personalized financial advice that you'd be getting, it
• 30:27
  didn't quite work out because the technology wasn't there.
• 30:30
  AI presents a potential solution to that.
• 30:35
  So yeah, we'll have to wait and see.
• 30:36
  You see any negatives in the the consolidation?
• 30:39
  Obviously there's an event where you're used to having loads of
• 30:41
  startups and challenges chipping away and then we're in this kind
• 30:44
  of consolidation phase like that concern you a little bit and the
• 30:47
  the world's kind of fintech and startup land.
• 30:50
  I think there's kind of two parts to that question.
• 30:54
  I think fintechs being acquired is is not a bad thing.
• 31:00
  You know, a lot of fintechs are looking for routes of exit the
• 31:04
  stock markets, public markets on a great route at the moment.
• 31:07
  Acquisition is a great opportunity.
• 31:08
  So consolidation acquisitions is is positive for them.
• 31:12
  I think we what we want to make sure is that the whole flywheel
• 31:15
  is working. And what we don't want to happen
• 31:18
  is consolidation on one end, but no support on the other end to
• 31:24
  help these new fintechs start. Because I think it's really
• 31:26
  important that we do have a start up industry that's
• 31:30
  flourishing because those are the new ideas that we do need to
• 31:33
  come into the mix. Acquisitions are fine as long as
• 31:36
  new companies are coming along, Yeah.
• 31:39
  And from a Money 2020 perspective, is there anything
• 31:43
  you've seen over after your short time, but maybe people
• 31:46
  spend that beforehand where you felt maybe there wasn't
• 31:48
  something relevant for Money 2020 and the businesses changed
• 31:52
  their thought process on that? Do you mean in terms of people
• 31:56
  wanting to talk on our stages? So as in we've thought it's not
• 32:01
  relevant and they've changed our minds.
• 32:04
  I guess there have been examples.
• 32:06
  I think a lot of the time through the call for content,
• 32:09
  especially, you know, companies don't always know the story that
• 32:13
  they're trying to tell. And we have submissions and we
• 32:16
  look at them and go, there's a, there's a piece here, there's,
• 32:20
  there's a, there's a hint of greatness.
• 32:22
  And we jump on a phone call with them and we talk it through and
• 32:25
  we try and understand, is there something that can we, we can
• 32:28
  make work? I should also say that for us,
• 32:31
  you know, the diversity of our line up is super important.
• 32:35
  And that's, that's both a diversity of ideas of voices.
• 32:39
  We don't just want a panel of people from the same company.
• 32:42
  We want their customers, their clients to be in the room and we
• 32:45
  also want a line up that reflects not just the financial
• 32:48
  services industry, but the world around us.
• 32:50
  So gender, ethnicity is super important.
• 32:53
  When we think about diversity, again, not every company gets
• 32:57
  that right, not every submission gets that right, but it's
• 33:00
  another place where we can sometimes jump in and have a
• 33:02
  conversation and make sure that our agenda really sings.
• 33:07
  One of the big content pillars this year, AI in the agentic
• 33:11
  age. Obviously, we've talked about it
• 33:13
  a little bit, but if we're unpacking it in a bit more
• 33:15
  detail, one thing I was particularly interested in is,
• 33:20
  you know, we were actually on a podcast not too long ago when we
• 33:22
  talked about some of the stuff going on in the US around open
• 33:26
  banking data. And something that that we've
• 33:28
  said could potentially help is, is open banking data with
• 33:32
  agentic and agentic around embedded finance.
• 33:35
  Do you think Europe is much better positioned than certain
• 33:39
  other markets because we have the free data here and we're
• 33:42
  maybe a little bit more aligned around where open banking is
• 33:45
  going next? Yeah, I, I really do.
• 33:48
  I think, you know, some of the changes happening in the US are
• 33:53
  fantastically positive. You know, in stable coins, for
• 33:56
  instance, you know, what an incredible leap we've seen since
• 34:00
  the Genius Act passed. On the other end of the
• 34:03
  spectrum, open banking is going through some, some major changes
• 34:07
  which are really undermining the certainty and the security of
• 34:09
  what's happening there. I think Europe, you know, one of
• 34:13
  our advantages has always been kind of the stability of what
• 34:17
  we, what we have, both regulation and, and as a, as a,
• 34:20
  as a market, It's an advantage and a disadvantage because we
• 34:24
  have the stability, but also we're sometimes slow to evolve
• 34:28
  and sometimes those other markets beat us to the punch.
• 34:32
  But personally, I I really hope that AI can be the injection
• 34:38
  that open banking and open finance needs.
• 34:41
  I think there was a, a promise in the late 20 tens of what it
• 34:44
  could be never quite got there. I hope this could reinvigorate
• 34:49
  that process. I think as long as it comes
• 34:52
  supporting regulation, supporting the ecosystem
• 34:54
  density, right, the the talent from a people spectre, I think
• 34:58
  it's global. It's how we use the AI to power
• 35:01
  advantage, right? Yeah.
• 35:03
  I think maybe the US, for right or wrong reasons, we're
• 35:06
  struggling to go over that, but I think there's definitely a
• 35:08
  future there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:11
  Fingers crossed. But you know a kind of payments
• 35:14
  hat on as well and with you being money 2020 Europe, I was
• 35:19
  going to ask you about the EPI and where what we're seeing as
• 35:23
  far as local payment methods in Europe is concerned.
• 35:26
  Is there anything in the agenda this year that's kind of leaning
• 35:28
  into not, not big revealed, but I'm very interested because
• 35:31
  obviously ideal is, is disappearing as a brand or has
• 35:33
  disappeared as a brand, you know, that does seem to be
• 35:36
  getting more traction that has done previously.
• 35:38
  Is, is that something you guys are keeping a close eye on in
• 35:40
  the European market? Absolutely.
• 35:43
  And I think if you come to the show, you'll, you'll probably be
• 35:46
  hearing a lot about what's what's going on in that space.
• 35:49
  And we're really excited to reveal our agenda in a, in a
• 35:52
  couple of weeks time. Maybe when your listeners are
• 35:55
  are watching they'll it'll be time to read it.
• 35:57
  So what are the big dates to keep in mind then for Money 2020
• 36:00
  Europe as we head towards the event?
• 36:03
  So in April we'll be revealing our agenda.
• 36:06
  So I'm not going to give an exact date, but it'll be April.
• 36:10
  That's when you'll be able to unpack exactly what's happening
• 36:12
  at the show floor. In March, you'll be able to see
• 36:15
  our agenda at glance, which is your kind of high level look at
• 36:18
  what's going on across the show. Something that not many people
• 36:22
  know about is, is also what happens just outside of the
• 36:26
  show. So we run a, a Policy Exchange
• 36:28
  program called Policy 20, and that's really about bringing
• 36:32
  European policy makers into the room just outside the show
• 36:36
  behind closed doors to have conversations about the topics
• 36:39
  that we're having on the show floor because they're interested
• 36:42
  in what's happening too, and they want to learn from each
• 36:44
  other. And we have a regulatory
• 36:46
  network, you know, globally across all of our shows, so we
• 36:49
  can bring observers into the mix to learn and share from each
• 36:52
  other. Those are conversations that are
• 36:55
  happening around the show. So yeah, we're really excited to
• 36:58
  reveal more. Exciting to know what the events
• 37:00
  are this year as well, because at the street party and, you
• 37:02
  know, Amsterdams are cool. So you don't have the event and.
• 37:04
  Right. Yeah.
• 37:06
  Well, the team are harder. The creative teams, as I said,
• 37:08
  are are fantastic and they can't seem because what?
• 37:10
  I did last year. Anime is hard to follow up.
• 37:13
  I'm not saying anything. As we kind of talk about agentic
• 37:18
  commerce, I think we talk about nearly every single recording
• 37:22
  that we do. Do you think there's a future
• 37:24
  of, of AI negotiating contracts on behalf of you mentioned them
• 37:28
  on policy makers, right? Do you think there's a a world
• 37:31
  where AI is going to be involved in that kind of conversations?
• 37:34
  On political policy conversations, I mean, I was in
• 37:38
  one of my previous roles at at Fortune.
• 37:41
  I was in a a sort of ACEO dinner we were doing and they were
• 37:45
  talking about the Mario Draghi report that came out a year or
• 37:49
  two ago. And we asked the question, who
• 37:52
  in the room has read the report? 00 people have read the report.
• 37:56
  It was, you know, 100 plus pages.
• 37:59
  But who in the room has put the report into Chat GPTA couple of
• 38:02
  people had because the reality is that some of those documents
• 38:07
  are, are not readable by humans anymore And we don't have the
• 38:11
  time and the patience. I think, you know, political
• 38:15
  policy, a great way to understand some of the
• 38:18
  regulations and rules coming through, certainly from a
• 38:21
  layman's point of view, is to put it into these tools.
• 38:24
  That's how you can get a very quick understanding of what's
• 38:26
  going on. But yeah, that's all I have to
• 38:29
  say. About such an interesting
• 38:30
  observation. And I think that, you know,
• 38:33
  we're really in an age of wanting everything now.
• 38:35
  And, you know, financial services and applications should
• 38:37
  be instant. My data should be available
• 38:39
  instantly. I'm going to listen to a
• 38:41
  podcast, but I'm going to consume it quickly.
• 38:43
  So I'm going to listen to it in 1 1/2 or 2 speed.
• 38:46
  Like I know you listen to them. I, I can't do it personally.
• 38:48
  Like I just, yeah, I don't want to miss anything.
• 38:50
  But you know, that is like the habit now, want it now and get
• 38:53
  it in, you know, bite sized chunks so I can consume it
• 38:55
  quickly. Very interesting.
• 38:58
  And so we have a final section of the show.
• 39:00
  I don't know if you've watched or listened to the show
• 39:02
  previously, but it's called The Shelf of Shame, where our guests
• 39:05
  nominate something from business, fintech payments,
• 39:09
  whatever it might be, that they would quite happily see banished
• 39:12
  for. Ever in a day.
• 39:13
  What would you be willing to nominate for the Shelf of Shame
• 39:16
  today? Oh.
• 39:17
  Interesting. Is it?
• 39:18
  Is it like a like a buzzwords? It could be anything you want.
• 39:22
  Oh, oh, I really should have thought about this before the
• 39:24
  show. I would say, can I, can I?
• 39:30
  We mentioned embedded finance earlier and I that word and that
• 39:35
  phrase for me is all finances embedded.
• 39:39
  So for me it has it's meaningless and and I and I, I
• 39:42
  hate buzzword bingo. So for me, I'd put embedded
• 39:45
  finance on the shelf. You're.
• 39:46
  Going to replace it with a new term or not?
• 39:48
  02 point O no, no, no. OK, embedded finance on the
• 39:53
  shelf that is controversial at this moment in time considering
• 39:56
  how many publications are talking about embedded finance.
• 39:59
  I do think like that buzzword narrative though, definitely is
• 40:01
  like. We do love a buzzword in
• 40:03
  payments and fintech, don't we? I think you mentioned that
• 40:06
  finance, all finance embedded in in in 2026, right?
• 40:10
  I. Think what we're seeking is a
• 40:13
  new name. For embedded new names, put the
• 40:15
  old one on the show. Put it into chat.
• 40:17
  TV One, there you go. Amazing.
• 40:20
  Oliver, thank you so much for your time.
• 40:21
  Where can people find you? Get in contact with you and the
• 40:24
  team. Yeah, Linkedin's probably the
• 40:26
  best place. Oliver Smith Or go to
• 40:28
  money2020.com Europe and come and have a look at the show and
• 40:32
  we'll see you in Amsterdam in June.
• 40:34
  You will indeed. We are looking forward to it.
• 40:35
  Thanks for joining us. Thanks very much.
• 40:37
  Thanks guys.