Latest / Sass & Small TALK / The Invisible Load of: PARENTING AFTER THE RAINBOW BABY (Introducing Our Egg Donor After Losing 10 Pregnancies)

Transcript

The Invisible Load of: PARENTING AFTER THE RAINBOW BABY (Introducing Our Egg Donor After Losing 10 Pregnancies) · Sass & Small TALK

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Because as it stands, Auntie Jen laid an egg for us, according to Mike.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, they think I'm a chicken?
0:06
SPEAKER_00: You're a chicken.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: They think I'm a chicken.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean a really chicken, like a really attractive chicken.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: So every Easter we pay hom homage to Ni Nang Jan that you gave the ultimate Easter egg.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna start messing with your kids and I'm gonna start showing up with eggs and just be like, would you like one?
0:21
SPEAKER_02: Don't worry, there's not a baby in it.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe there is.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: I need my sass back.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: If you're doing it all from meltdown to task and still fighting to keep up that sass friend, I got you.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm Deb, host of Sass and Small Talk, the mental load of parenthood, season two.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: As a mom of two small leads, navigating life with a neurodivergent family, and my own neurospicy brain, caregiving for aging cats, and trying to hold it all together with grade.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: I know what it means to carry the mental, emotional, and physical load of parenting.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: we weren't meant to do this alone.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: This season, we're exploring the many faces of parenthood, from single parents to co-parents, blended families to chosen families, and everything in between.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Right here in our beautiful city of Victoria BC and beyond.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: They're sharing real stories of overwhelm, grief, imposter syndrome, breaking generational cycles with the resilience it takes to keep showing up.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Real parents, real families, real stories.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Because it takes a village to raise a child and a community to raise their parent.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Dallin, I need my sass.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Sass and Smalltalk, The Mental Load of Parenthood.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Deb Bellino, and it seemed very fitting to kick off this new season with today's episode, one I hold very close to my heart.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: We often talk about longing for something: a baby, a family, a new chapter.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: But what happens when you finally get what you've longed for?
1:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's still hard.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Jen.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: A friend, chosen family, really.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: A fellow mama.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: And to me, someone who changed the course of my family story.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: She is an integral part of my village.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Jen is a mom of two beautiful children, but the road to get here was not easy.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Marked by loss, infertility, and a selfless decision that ultimately helped complete not just one, but two other families, mine being one of them.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about what happens after the rainbow.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: When joy meets exhaustion, when gratitude crashes into anxiety, and when the pressure to make it all worth it becomes another weight to carry.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I am beyond thrilled to introduce to you the very person who selflessly gave a piece of herself so that my son could find his way into the world and into my life.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: This is Jen.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Jen.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Hi.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: I promised myself that I wouldn't do these awkward introdu introductions, but I'm sorry, you deserve an awkward introduction.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Come on, this is not your everyday situation.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Right?
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Fair enough.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Fair enough.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: So I apologize and I love you.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm allowed to say this is the host because this is my show, but also because you really are my sister.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: And we'll get into uh the depths of why I called her that.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but let's start because this show is about the mental load of parenthood.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: This is not about, you know, our journey per se, or my journey.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: It's about how you handle your life at home.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I have spent a big chunk of my parenthood journey um figuring out why I can't do things right.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And I'm always wondering why I am 10 steps behind everyone else?
3:49
SPEAKER_00: You being one of them, I admire you.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: So I brought people in here to ask them how the heck they do it.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I'm going to talk about your family, talk about your village, your life.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: And let's start with who sits at your table.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: That's my husband, right?
4:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's your husband.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, who sits at my table?
4:07
SPEAKER_00: You're like, who sat there this morning?
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Who sits there generally?
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Generally.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh that would be my husband, yes, Craig, and our two beautiful children.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: I can agree.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: Derek and June, yeah.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes, Derek and Juni.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I think I would, I like, I think it behooves me to say that I'd like to consider myself an extension of that table because you have literally given a piece of your biological self to us.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: So I've always been very blessed to be able to call you family.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: But again, let's not make it this about me, okay?
4:43
SPEAKER_00: This is about you and trying to figure things out.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Now let's can we take a little brief um let's talk a little bit about your IVF journey or how to how you had your kids.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Um how do we have our kids?
4:59
SPEAKER_00: You.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Me.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh it was to both my children were IVF, uh, many, many years of treatments.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it took about five years to have my son and two and a half to have my daughter.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we did many different rounds of different treatments, um pregnancy loss, but finally able to bring home my beautiful boy and my daughter after some time in the hospital, but some time in the hospital, yes.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: During the pandemic, Melissa.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh, yeah, not a great time to be in the hospital.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: So you will get a very good idea, a very good glimpse at the strength and resilience that this woman has.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, we'll get into that in a bit, but I just wanted to say you are right now training for a marathon on top of everything else.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: You had just had surgery earlier this year.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in January.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: It's been a lot.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it has been a lot.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: And you still want to run.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is where I don't see eye to eye with you.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: I have to run.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: I want to run.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, why is that?
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh I I joke that I'm a spiteful person, but uh mostly against myself.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: It's my body.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: It I was sick.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: I was very, very sick, and I couldn't run.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: I was unable to, the my mobility, my strength, it was all taken from me in a matter of months due to my illness.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: And in January, I could barely walk to the bathroom because I had no strength.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: And now I do.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: So I feel like it would be wrong not to do it.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: So it is out of spite to my body and the illness.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: My well, I'm better now.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: So I want to do the thing that I couldn't do before.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: There's a little bit of a spite thing if you look at it that way, or you can look at it as I'm grateful that I got my body back.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm very grateful with with the side of cheeky spikes.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, because you're Jen.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: She's a little cheeky.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna see that too.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna, we, we're gonna get into a little bit more of Jen, but let's talk about how a day looks like in your house.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's chaos.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: It's messy, it's loud.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: There are plans that are not followed.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: I love plans that aren't followed.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Plans are not followed.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: There are plans.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: It's executing of the plans that are that always we always struggle with.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: That's with outside the house, not necessarily inside the house.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we do our very best.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: We do our very best, but you know, sometimes you gotta fly by the seat of your pants.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Especially when you have two neurodivergent children.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: So plans change.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: Plans change.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I know that very well, but let me ask you this.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, do you also have to battle with your own neurodivergence to some degree?
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Or is your focus fully on the fact that your kids have the neurodivergence?
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's me too.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: It's for sure me too.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: So it's it's balancing my own mental health and my own neurodivergence while also um supporting my kids through theirs.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: And then, oh, my husband's just in the background with this little white flag.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm here too.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm here too.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm here too.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Just rallying the troops.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: And we need that, right?
8:33
SPEAKER_00: We need that.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: And my my husband is also the guy with the white flag saying, okay, come down to earth, everyone.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Especially with the plans that don't, you know.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: I know that very well.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: All right.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: So now we're gonna talk about something that I just I came up with this.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty proud of this little term.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's a thing, but the rainbow mom guilt.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: And what that is, it's a complicated notion of gratitude versus reality.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: And this is something that I believe many families experience who've struggled with losing a baby or having just general um pregnancy loss or even not getting pregnant and then eventually getting pregnant, that when you do, you're not allowed to complain.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of this narrative we tell ourselves, right?
9:24
SPEAKER_00: And I say we because I've experienced that.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: But I want to talk about that unspoken pressure.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: And if you've you know experienced it, how you navigate it, talk to me about that.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I deal with that often.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I anytime there is something that is stressful for me, especially when the kids were younger and I would start feeling like distress or anxiety, I would it'd be hard to let myself feel those emotions, right?
9:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling your emotions is how you work through them, but it was like this stop where I couldn't feel them because how dare I have anxiety when I work so hard to have these children?
10:05
SPEAKER_02: How could I be dealing with something like postpartum depression after my son when I worked so hard to have my son?
10:13
SPEAKER_02: I how is this happening?
10:15
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
10:16
SPEAKER_00: I I want to go back with that because I think that experience was a tough one for you because you didn't seek help immediately with a postpartum depression.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: I did not know what happened there.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: So after I had my son, I knew pretty quickly that there was something not right with how I was feeling.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: It started with some pretty intense anxiety that being someone who struggled with anxiety, you know, on and off their whole life, I was able to identify that it was not good thinking for pretty quick, pretty quick.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: And then it ended up turning into some postpartum depression.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: But I never sought any help for my postpartum depression right away.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: I knew it was happening, I knew what was happening, I knew why it was happening.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but there was this little piece of me that kept saying, How dare you be depressed right now?
11:11
SPEAKER_02: You waited five years for this moment, you had countless pregnancy losses, you did everything to have this baby, and now you're depressed.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: You should be frolicking in the fields, smiling, laughing, and plucking peaches off trees.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Pretty much.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: And you know, think of all the women who were in my position that haven't yet had a baby.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: And now here I am with my rainbow baby, and I'm depressed.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: And it took me going back to work, yeah, ending up on a stress leave from it, yeah, and then another miscarriage before I was finally, my midwife said, You're not okay.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm not okay.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And they, you know, being with my midwife at the time because I was pregnant again and having a miscarriage, is she said, you know, you need some, you need some postpartum psychopathic help.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: You need some help.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: And I'm so glad that I did.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Goodness.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad that I did because, you know, we it's easy to say to someone else, it's easy to say to your friend, like, you don't have any control over your brain chemistry.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: You would have never chosen this.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, this isn't your fault, but you would have said that to me for sure.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: I would have somebody said that to you.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: I would have said that to any of my friends.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: It's just a lot harder to say to yourself.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: There's a big difference between knowing what is happening and also then accepting what is happening.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, I find though, in treating my postpartum and treating my anxiety and working through that, it's helped me become a less anxious mom.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: And I strongly believe getting help for my postpartum depression and staying on my medication helped me through my daughter's Nick News Day.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: Because had I not sought help with my son, I would have never had the like strength to ask again.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: You would have ignored it.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I would have just ignored it.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: I would have just ignored it.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: I would have told myself, you're so lucky that your baby is alive after all of this.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: You don't get to ask for help.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: But I had already done it.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: So I was able to be like, nope, nope, let's nip this in the butt right now.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: So I immediately started counseling when my daughter was born.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: I made sure I was in um contact constantly with my uh midwife and my doctor, and making sure my medication was, you know, at the appropriate dosage.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: And I took really good care of my mental health, um, which I'm so thankful I did because 2020 had everyone's mental health.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: I was in the middle of the pandemic.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: So I'm lucky in that sense that I was able to deal with it with my son because I was able to deal with it with my daughter.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: You gave permission to yourself the next time around.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: And it probably, because it was managed, it probably was um, it supported you in a way that definitely was needed so that you could be there for her.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: She needed you to be as much Jen as an and as much mom as you could be while she was in the NICU because that was some hard stuff.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: It was hard.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: But my son needed me too because he I was only six months pregnant when I had her.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: I thought I had three more months with him.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden, he's, you know, in the afternoon with his mom at Boot York Garden, smelling the roses.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: And a few hours later, his mom is at the hospital having his baby sister, you know, three months early.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And he needed me too.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: So it was juggling being at the hospital with my daughter and being home with my son.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: And if I wasn't mentally as as mentally sound as I could be in that situation with the with the support that I had, I don't know how I would have juggled it all on top of the pandemic.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: On top of the pandemic, where there was, if you remember, if anyone remembers, it there was so much protocol, like it was shocking that they let you in the hospital at all.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, my husband and I couldn't visit like our daughter at the same time.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: Like we, Craig and I, I didn't get to see my husband hold our baby for the first time.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: I didn't get to watch him give her a bath.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, we weren't allowed to take our masks off.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, she didn't really see our face for the first couple months of her life.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: It was rough.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: It was rough, Jen.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: It's rough.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: And I I don't have words to when I think hard times.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: I I'm humbled quickly when I think about that time.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: That was a really hard time for your family, and you still got through it.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: And I love that you knew you needed help and you went for that help in order to show up.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: I hadn't even left the hospital yet before I asked to be referred to counseling.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I was like, nope, nope, this is this is gonna be hard.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: I haven't even had the hormones hit.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: I need you set me up with some help immediately, and I'm so happy for you that you did that.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: You really answered that for me um in multiple ways because I think you managing that guilt, um, that the stress that that that you've been placing on yourself, you managing that.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, my question was like, how did you manage it?
16:33
SPEAKER_00: But you you managed it by just doing it.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: You faced it the way you needed to, and it was raw and it was real, and then you did it a second time.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And you probably now with the kids older, whenever you need that kind of support, no question, you will deal with it.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: You will immediately deal with that.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, now with a just going back to like not just postpartum depression, but like even just the guilt of feeling overwhelmed at home and the days aren't easy.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: What are some like ways that you managed um those those moments of rainbow mom guilt?
17:12
SPEAKER_00: What do you do about it?
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, do you just accept have you learned to just accept like I can feel I can feel you know angry, I can feel frustration like every other mom, or do you still struggle with it?
17:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh I I think I still struggle with it.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: Um an imperfect human.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, a lot less so, uh significantly less than when my kids were little.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: I had a lot of moments where when I, you know, late nights crying and you feel frustrated, like, ah, just please go to sleep.
17:47
SPEAKER_02: I just need to sleep.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, they do finally sleep.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: And now I can't sleep because I'm laying there feeling guilty that I was just frustrated about not getting the sleep.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I start to spot you wanted this for years.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: There's women that have tried, you know, just as long as you and you have your baby, and now you're frustrated because you can't sleep.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, who?
18:07
SPEAKER_02: How dare you?
18:08
SPEAKER_02: How dare you, how dare you?
18:09
SPEAKER_00: That still creeps up on you.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: It's less now.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: It's less now.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: And I I do something now that I did a lot while I was trying to have um babies is that recognizing that we can hold two conflicting emotions at the same time.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: You can, two things can be true.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: Two things can be true.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: And a thing that I used to say to myself a lot, and I'm sure you did too, was that I can be happy for my friends having a baby and sad for myself that I am not.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: And so if I was able to hold both of those emotions before, I should be able to do it now.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: And I was able to do that for them.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: I was able to be happy for my friends and sad for myself.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: So I should be able to then be sad for myself and happy for myself at the same time.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Should make that into a book.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: Because the truth is, we, yeah, we live in this world where we're like one or the other, but you're right, two things can be true.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's still it, you can still be a good mom and still have hard days.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: And that you're not excused just because you had a harder time having these babies.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: So I love that you said that because you're, and I can attest to that, that you absolutely, when we there was a speaking of guilt, I'm just this kind of aside, but when we got pregnant um after you had donated your egg to us and you struggled shortly after because we had these big plans, these big grandiose plans of having our babies at the same time.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: And the cool thing is that we had all these, I mean, not the cool thing, but the the crazy part of this is that we actually planned, we actually sat there and and and thought, we're gonna have photos together.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna wear for our photo shoot?
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, we just had these ideas and life took another turn.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: And I was able to get pregnant and have a healthy uh pregnancy, and you suffered another loss.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: And there was so much heartache on my end for that.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: And the crazy thing about this girl is that you were worried about me feeling bad.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: I didn't want you to feel bad.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: This is just it's a just like true testament to the kind of person you are.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so then let's talk about this because I think it's really important that we understand why the heck, with everything that you've been through, why would you even think of going through the process of IVF again for another person?
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Take me out of the situation.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Just the fact that you want to do it at all.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: What kind of thing did this give you?
20:45
SPEAKER_02: I am a firm believer in not just, you know, what I did for you, in in I want to help others.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I do I don't like human suffering.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't think anybody does.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: No, I like human suffering.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: You take it to the next level of my mom.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: But I feel like I have these things that I can give.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: I can make it better.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: I could make it better.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: So I did.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: I have these things.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: She means she's got these really good eggs.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Like really good eggs.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: She's got great eggs.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: But you know, I'm a I'm a blood donor.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I'm a registered organ donor.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Like these things, they don't take a lot of effort, but I can I can help people, you know, I can spend an hour every few months and donate some blood.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: I can register to have donate my organs.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: After I have my son, I donated breast milk, uh thousands of ounces of breast milk.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: Um I was lucky enough to have hyperlactation.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: So I donated breast milk.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: And then when I found out about you and what you were going with, you know, it it we were going through.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't really that to me, really that hard.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: I was able to separate like this is just a piece of my DNA.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: I have these eggs, you know, and you need eggs, right?
22:06
SPEAKER_02: I have extra and you have none.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: So it just makes sense, right?
22:10
SPEAKER_02: Even my four-year-old knows that if she gets her five-year-old now, if she has more eggs in her Easter basket, somebody has no eggs in their Easter basket.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: She's gonna give someone some of her eggs because you know, we all deserve to have chocolate Easter eggs.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: I love this.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Right?
22:26
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
22:26
SPEAKER_00: This is the best lesson you could teach your kids is like if you have an abundance, you give.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: You give, you just share it.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Right?
22:34
SPEAKER_02: So I knew because you we were going to the same fertility clinic, we had the same fertility doctor.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: I knew you needed eggs.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, I know how to do IVF.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: I know I respond well.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: We have the same doctor.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: We he said, you know, this hasn't happened before, where one of my patients who's struggling has donated to another patient that's struggling.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: But I think that it's a great idea, and let's try.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: So he was for it.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: He was for it.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he thought it was a great idea.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: It was one of those impulsive moves where we're like, that's kind of a good idea and we should go for it.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Literally, you handed your eggs on a golden platter, literally on a golden platter.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: And truth be told, petri dish.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Wasn't really golden, but it was a dish.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: It was a platter.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: It was a sterile petri dish, but same difference.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, we're gonna call it figuratively, it is a golden platter, a tiny, cute little golden platter.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: And the the the crazy thing is that um we didn't say yes right away.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was yes, my heart said yes right away, but I had I had a spouse, I had a guy, uh, the this is a third party, and he's actually very integral to this process too, because he, it was, if anyone really doesn't understand, which I I get that some people don't understand the process or even the mindset behind what we did.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but essentially, your egg, my husband's sperm, and like having our family together.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: I was the I was the incubator, I was the the oven.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: And so the three of us became a village.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: We became, you know, and we really were part of each other's process.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: She was there at the birth.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Luckily, this was before the pandemic.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: So you were able to be there.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: What a gift that we got from that.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it's funny because we I was gonna talk about our story, but the truth is, um, we weren't gonna go this way.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: I didn't suggest it.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: I didn't ask you.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: You presented it to me, and I thought that was crazy.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Like I felt it was crazy.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, crazy, but kind of wonderful.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: And I am all for thinking out of the box, literally.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: But my husband, George, is not as much that thinker.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: He's very practical and logical, and there's some stuff that goes with that.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: And Jen is looking at him right now because we're seeing if he's reacting.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: And he knows, like he's he's like, I did the thing.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: He thought it through.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think anyone who wants to do this kind of thing, you gotta think you have to think it through.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: You don't I offered, but it's not just let's do it.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: But like there's counseling, uh, there for all the parties.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: It's not uh it's not just something you just you know do.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's why I felt right because we all needed our time to think about it.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Mine was an immediate, yes, you were an immediate ask.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: And and then he was like, Okay, four months immediate for George, I gotta say.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: But we need that kind of person in our team.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: We need our white flag, and he was there to say, okay, let's weigh out the consequences or let's weigh out what can happen.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: More disappointment, like there was no guarantee.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: You too had loss.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: So, what could what like what can we guarantee here?
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, life is not a big guarantee.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: We have to take our risks, and we chose to take the risk.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: So, um, really quick with my story, just so you can understand the reason behind Jen offering, but we had nine miscarriages, four of them were in our second trimester.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, we had quite a few years of struggle with my second child and or with my first child, we actually um were able to meet one of our babies that we had.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: And so it was, you know, especially the second trimester losses was really confusing and stressful.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: And so you really were my village, my community.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: And this show is about community and how we all pull together to kind of support each other.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, I never felt alone in this process as soon as I reached for help.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: That's the biggest thing.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: And we joined um a group that's where we met, a pregnancy loss group here in Victoria, and our beloved friend Charlene um headed this foundation.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, she passed away right before the pandemic.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, uh, we we were able to the gift of the sisterhood of I guess we called ourselves mamas of loss or lost lost moms, lost moms, lost families, lost families, parents, lost parents, like just all the losses of babies uh that we rarely speak of.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: We came together and we met everyone on Tuesday, and we just like, you know, talk.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: We talked about burgers and McDonald's and we remember that we talked.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just about our losses, it was about just the community, and I think that is the key.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: So then she offered her egg.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: We had a successful pregnancy.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: It took me months and months and months and months to um feel safe and admit it.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: And then while we like I mentioned earlier, we had our um beautiful Jen trying and it didn't work out.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of that emotional distress there on both ends.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: And then we have our beautiful son who looks exactly like Jen, as the as as as luck would have it.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Um she just a beautiful relationship.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: She is our um godmama to him.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: We want we wanted this to be open and we had extra embryos to give.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: And you taught us the gift of giving, so we give it to another family who adopted, and um, they also wanted an open relationship.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: So, my daughter, who um we always knew there was struggle uh with neurodivergent.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: She has autism and many other things that um we need support for her as far as knowing safe community.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: So we always wanted siblings, and then we got our siblings and not just one, but now five, because of this beautiful gesture, and it's beyond a gesture.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's gotta be a word for it in the dictionary, but it's not gestures, it's bigger than that.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: So I do thank you for that.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, but now it's your turn.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Now we talked a little bit about the fact that you um did IVF with both kids, you had um losses throughout.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, is there anything we missed with that journey?
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Because I do I do want to talk about a little bit about how that shaped you as a mom.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: I know it's a loaded question.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: What's your story?
28:39
SPEAKER_02: What is your story?
28:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, it was you, I don't want to say typical infertility, but yeah, I had I had infertility.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: I did IVF and had my son and did it again after I donated eggs to you.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: I did it a second round of IVF to have my daughter, and you know, we thought things were smooth sailing, and then I tripped and fell.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: Um that's so it was the most freak fluke accident, but I fell while camping onto my stomach, and just where my placenta was situated, I caused a placental abruption and had to deliver my daughter at 28 weeks um via emergency C-section.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: And she it was really scary.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: She was in the NICU for two months.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: She it was it was a really hard two months.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: So we're very lucky for all the support.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: Um as you know, I near and dear cause.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: I talked earlier about being a blood donor.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: I also work for Canadian Blood Services.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: My daughter received a blood transfusion when she was a baby.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: So giving is what kept my daughter here, right?
29:57
SPEAKER_02: Giving is what saved my baby.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: There's a full circle, right?
30:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, giving is the whole reason that my baby even exists.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't think we would have been able to do a second round of IVF had I not, you know, donated eggs to you that, you know, helped us with being able to do our second round of IVF through the clinic because of that.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, they gave some support because of my generosity.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: We were able to do another round, which is amazing.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: So amazing.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, being in the hospital, my daughter receiving blood products is another some random stranger, some some random person who I will never meet just took an hour out of their day to save my baby, which is amazing.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: So I think, yeah, a huge part of my journey has just been other people to be giving and and and receiving.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: Giving and receiving.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Giving and receiving, giving and receiving, and just leaning on my partner, leaning on my friends, you know.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's true, just going back to like the the giving and receiving in the blood.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would not be here.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: It was a complicated um birth story for me.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I lost a lot of uh blood.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: I think it's it was close to four liters.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm only made of six, and so not good.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was with the transfusions that saved my life.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be sitting here right now had it and I wouldn't have my son had it not been for the generosity of donorship.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: And is that a word?
31:21
SPEAKER_00: Donorship?
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Donorship?
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Donating?
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Donor donating, yeah.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: The fact that because of our generous donors, yeah.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes, our generous donors, and it's kind of amazing that you work like you work for the the Canadian Blood Services.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just incredible that you know, um it's just full circle, the whole thing is first full circle.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: So I can see why generosity fills your heart and fills your cup.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I love that um this is the open story that we can talk about, but how do your kids handle the fact that you uh shared a story with other families?
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Do they understand yet?
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Are you we're working on it?
32:03
SPEAKER_02: My son does understand.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, being in a in a medical background, um, I've explained it very like science-y to them.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: We actually last week, believe it or not, pulled out my giant human anatomy atlas because uh my it's big.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's it's it's a huge book and I love it and it's beautiful with illustrations.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: But um, I was explaining to, you know, Derek about how, you know, Isaac, he's related to you by blood.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I said, you know, Debbie and George, and I, you know, explained, and I explained it very, very scientifically because, you know, I'm not gonna explain the birds and the bees to my children, but I said, you know, a lot of people are able to make babies in their home.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: I was like, mommy and daddy couldn't make the babies in their home, and neither could, you know, Auntie Debbie and George.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: They struggled too.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: I was like, mommy and daddy didn't struggle the same way that they struggled.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: Auntie Debbie needed eggs.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: And then I explained scientifically where eggs come from, where they exist in a female's body, and we looked at the human anatomy.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: I was like, these this is the ovaries, this is your uterus, this is where the eggs are.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: They took eggs out of here from mommy and they mixed them with sperm from Isaac's daddy.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, we flipped that.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: I was like, this is where the sperm ends.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: You became a teacher, didn't you?
33:25
SPEAKER_02: I did become a teacher.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: I did become a teacher.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know, we took George gave the sperm from here, and then the doctors mixed them together and we put them into Debbie, and Debbie grew the baby.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: And so my son, he he understood fully.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh, my daughter was a little bit more confused by it, but she's, you know, just turned five.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh my son did ask afterwards how we got the sperm into the uterus.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: He's like, 'Me at home, I was like, um, you know, I did I you but I said you could edit this part now.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: But I said I said to him, I was like, Well, Mom, we take this part and we put it into this part.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Yeah, just goes in there.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: Like, okay.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: I was like, but this is how you were made.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: Don't worry.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: This is the most part.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: This is a whole other podcast.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: And he's looking at the human anatomy book.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: He's like, how does that go?
34:32
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, well, I mean, you're almost nine.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean as well.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Scientifically speaking, like, don't make it weird.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: Don't make it weird.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm so supportive of this that I'm probably gonna send my kids over to you because as it stands, Auntie Jen laid an egg for us, according to my.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, they think I'm a chicken?
34:50
SPEAKER_00: I think you're a chicken.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: They think I'm a chicken.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean a really cute chicken, like a really attractive chicken.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: So every Easter we have this, like this, we pay a woman homage to Auntie Jen or Ninang Jen, is what we call you.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Um that you you uh gave the ultimate Easter egg.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Did you I'm gonna start messing with your kids and I'm gonna start showing up with eggs and just be like, I laid this.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Would you like one?
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, there's not a baby in it.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe there is.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: So I love that because there's just the this is the this is the openness and this is the village section of this because we we feel not we, like the society in the past has always seen this as like oh faux pas.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't talk about this.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: But I love the idea that we are truly um like this, this is an open situation.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: We we took open to the next level, open relationship in the next level.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, if you think about it, even our story is being generous.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: We're giving our story to other people who are struggling in silence.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: Like the number of times people have asked about my kids, and I will right away say, Yeah, you know, I have two kids, my beautiful children, they're both IVF.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: And the number of people have been like, You did IVF?
36:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, you did IVF.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: And then, and then I learn of all these people going through struggles, or um, you know, I I'll mention that, you know, but yeah, my kids, I I've got two beautiful children, but it was hard to get here, you know.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: I did suffer a lot of pregnancy loss, and then I had a miscarriage too.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: And it's just people just don't even just don't even think they can talk about it.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: So I think that just sharing our story is being generous.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: I I I I think so too.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: And this this took a lot of struggle for me too, and worrying about like, you know, kind of honing it back to the shame of being honest about what happened.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you look at my son and it he resembles you, like there's gonna be a lot of, you know, but the truth of the matter is like there is no shame on how this happened because it was a beautiful gift.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: It was the true essence of the village coming through.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, the village of one party came and knocked on our door.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: And the fact that we're sharing the story you write is generous because then we can give permission to this, the others who are not not necessarily to say, like, go and find yourself egg donors.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And we're not trying to like promote No, we're not trying to promote egg donors.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: We're we're we're promoting not suffering in silence.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Suffering.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you don't need to suffer in silence.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: This isn't shameful.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, no one is gonna bat an eye about declining a suite because they don't want to mess with their blood sugar, right?
37:35
SPEAKER_02: About their diabetes.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: No one is going to feel shameful saying that, right?
37:41
SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna feel shameful asking for a Tylenol because they have a headache, yeah, but all of a sudden a woman or a man is suffering with fertility and it's right, it's and like the fact that there's so many people out there that are just dying to build their family.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: And adoption is a beautiful gift and a beautiful, but it's not easy either.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: We we tried that process and it was just so difficult.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm not and again, it's it's not about the process and what we did, but it's the idea of being able to talk about it and feeling, and this is what I love about Victoria is that there is a strong community of people who are out of the box thinkers.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's it wasn't it's not a very um, you know, we can't talk politics here, but like it, the the kind of environment we live in is is a little bit more free, um free thinking.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: And so that's probably why I was really inspired to have not just you here as my you know first guest, as my special guest here on the show, but the fact that um this is the ultimate village story, and that's what Assassin Small Talk is all about, is like calling on our village and bringing in, you know, calling in the troops because we need one another and we need each other's stories.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: And this is a very unique story, it's not an everyday situation.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: And I still have friends that are like, I would never have done what you did, but I have a new understanding.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for teaching me.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: So the education portion of it that we never really got in our upbringing, right?
39:13
SPEAKER_02: No, right?
39:14
SPEAKER_02: I didn't when I I mean I didn't even realize that I could have fertility problems until I got older and started having fertility problems.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and never would have never would have guessed.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: No, never would have known that that's an option.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: I already had it in my head.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna have five kids, they're gonna be spaced out this much, this and and it just goes to show that we cannot control everything and we have to kind of go with what we have, go with the flow to some degree, but that's where we have to be okay with uh reaching out for the help and leaning on each other.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Saying yes to you is the biggest, uh like most humbling process for me was saying yes to your help and in general parenting.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: It's it's hard.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to say yes or ask for help.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: And people sometimes struggle giving it too because they think, I mean, I know uh donating eggs is is a big thing and it's a big generosity, but doing something generous for another person doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be expensive.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: It can just be sharing your story with them, or going and taking an hour and donating some blood, or you know, throwing a dollar into someone's little basket because they're hungry and they, you know, are asking for food.
40:31
SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't have to be a huge grand gesture.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: You can just help people in little bit ways every day.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like like uh taking the bus all the way from the city into downtown to come sit with your sister.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Right after work, right after we're gonna wear her fabulous scrubs.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm in my scrubs.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: She knows she's gonna wake up at four o'clock in the morning and she still did this for me.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm I am so humbled by that.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: And I I I do want to ask you, um, just in general, because you are faced with overwhelm all the time.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: So aside from the fact that you struggle to even build this family, then you have the family, then you've got the noise, and you have the you have with the neurodivergence, there were neurodivergence you had to go with the assessments and all the appointments that come with that.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of stuff, a lot of overwhelm.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you, Jen, keep it together?
41:24
SPEAKER_00: How the heck do you do this?
41:27
SPEAKER_02: Adjusting my expectations of myself, I'd say.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: Everyone always wants to do their best all the time, right?
41:35
SPEAKER_02: But my best and your best are not the same.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
41:38
SPEAKER_02: My best today and my best a week from now are not the same.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: My best today and my best in January when I was recovering from surgery are not the same.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: So looking at like your very, very best day when you've had all the sleep and the stars of line and your kids are all slept and well fed, and it's a moderate temperature, and like basing all your days on that, you're setting yourself up for failure.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Right?
42:03
SPEAKER_02: Just do the best that day, right?
42:07
SPEAKER_02: Baby steps, baby steps, right?
42:09
SPEAKER_02: And and lowering my expectations for myself, but also for my kids, right?
42:14
SPEAKER_02: Like that's the best to the lesson you can teach them as well.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh my modeling grace for yourself.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: Like I always tell my children, like, I don't care how good you are at anything, I just care that you tried.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
42:27
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the same for my kids.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: They just want me, they just want to see that I am trying.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: They want to see me show up, they want to see that I love them.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: So I didn't dress them up in every single theme day for school.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, the right times I've forgotten and the guilt that came with that.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: But let go, let go of that guilt.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember dressing up for theme day?
42:49
SPEAKER_00: No.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: My parents didn't bring me on play dates.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: They didn't dress me up.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: I think I was 11 years old.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: Even if it happened, though, like this is like my kids are not gonna grow up and turn into an adult and say, Oh, my mom forgot to dress me up on theme day.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: No, they're gonna say, My mom was always there when I was sad.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: My mom listened to me when I had a problem, right?
43:11
SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna care that I didn't do, you know, my favorite author day, right?
43:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: They're just not.
43:20
SPEAKER_02: And no shade on parents that do do that.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: Less, right?
43:24
SPEAKER_02: But you gotta pick your battles.
43:27
SPEAKER_02: Your battles, right?
43:28
SPEAKER_02: You gotta pick your thing for us.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: We love camping, we love traveling, right?
43:33
SPEAKER_02: We love planning all these trips and outings with my kids and being outdoors.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't that's a priority, right?
43:39
SPEAKER_02: That's a priority for us, right?
43:41
SPEAKER_02: Are my job is a priority for me.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: Making sure my neurodivergent kids are arrested and fed is a priority for me.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: So those types of things are lower on my priority list.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: And before, is not everything needs.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: To be taught priority, right?
44:01
SPEAKER_02: It used to be.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: It used to be.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: You had that mentality.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: When I had first had my son, I absolutely had.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: And if I didn't give him all wooden toys, and if I, you know, I remember the wooden toys.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: Like everything.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I was like worried about all of his shoes.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: They have to be perfectly bendy.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: I was worried about baby wearing.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm worried about breastfeeding and about attachment, about sleeping.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Do I, you know, I kept hearing people you should cry it out, and that didn't feel right for me.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: And so it was just everything needed to be perfect all the time.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: I was exhausted.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: It is exhausting.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: So, and not even one thing needs to be perfect all the time.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: No.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: No, not even one thing.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: But like prioritizing which things would I in a perfect world, which thing is at the top?
44:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:45
SPEAKER_02: Right?
44:46
SPEAKER_02: They can't all be at the top.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: That's just not how it works.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: And doing this on the daily, as opposed to like even just in the grand scheme of things, you could just look at the baby steps within the day, within the hour.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: And I mean sounds awful, but if you lowered the bar really, really low for yourself, right?
45:04
SPEAKER_02: You lower it down and then you're constantly going above it.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: Win win! Win win!
45:12
SPEAKER_00: So play games with yourself.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
45:14
unknown: Exactly.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: Because I have spent my life doing, I don't even sleep sometimes because I'm like, but I gotta get this done though.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: But I do, I but I have to make this card perfect.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: I gotta wrap this beautifully.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, but they have to do their, oh, I forgot about backpack day.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: I did.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: There's this one time I I forgot about backpack day, everybody, and everyone's supposed to come in with a backpack that's not a backpack or something.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't read that section.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: I didn't read that part.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what happened there.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: My I got, I don't know.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: I skipped the section on that, and then everyone went and everyone like had shoes and planters and hats as their backpack, and then my kid had the backpack backpack.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: And he he didn't even give me a hard time, but he was just like, Oh, we forgot it's not a backpack or backpack that's not a backpack day or whatever it's called.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: And I felt, and you know, his teacher, bless her, she she was like, Oh, it's no big deal.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, she didn't even care, but what did I do?
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Did I not run home and create a backpack, not backpack?
46:09
SPEAKER_00: That was unnecessarily better than it needed to be.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't unnecessarily better.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: It was like super cute.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: I know.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, like, why though?
46:16
SPEAKER_00: Like why, why?
46:17
SPEAKER_00: But it was a win-win for him because what I ended up doing was I recycled things like that that brought him joy.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: And we I was able to, but I took away the the the the whole thing of it is preparing it with your child and like letting them come up with it.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: But the part of it, it wasn't even to show other people.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Once upon a time, I was that person too.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: Now it was about me showing up for my son and the guilt.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: And I place that that was my own narrative, and I think we need to let go of that because that's just too much work.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: It is, it is too much work.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, if if you have a child and that it is super important to that child that these special days are done, then you yeah, maybe move that up your list a little bit, right?
47:02
SPEAKER_02: My son does not care at all, ever.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: I we've asked him, and no, we don't.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: And we tell him, Are you sure you don't want to dress up?
47:12
SPEAKER_02: Sure you don't want to dress up, you know?
47:13
SPEAKER_02: And you know, if I if I remember and if I put it, if I put everything together and I did it for him, he would do it.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: But if he came to school and wasn't dressed up like everyone else, he doesn't, doesn't care.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't, you know, so I stopped stressing about that one and moved it down the list.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: Teach us, right?
47:34
SPEAKER_02: He was like, chill, mom, relax.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: It's fine, it's fine.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: You know what he cares about?
47:39
SPEAKER_02: He wants special food day.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: He wants his hot food day.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: So your son.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: He wants his sushi, he wants his pizza.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what he wants on his special food day.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: That's what our school does.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: So we're lucky in our school district that we can buy special food day for the whole year.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh so I buy the whole year a special food day so that my neurodivergent brain does not forget because that's when I know he would be upset.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: Right?
48:05
SPEAKER_02: And so that to him is his priority.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: He wants it, he wants a special food day.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: So I make sure that happens.
48:11
SPEAKER_02: That is up at the top of the list.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: PJ Day, Rainbow Day.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: That is not important to him.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: He wants sushi when everybody else gets sushi.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: I want sushi.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: I want sushi right now.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: He got me hungry for some sushi.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: I love that you were able to prioritize and then you leaned into what he kind of taught you.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and I think it's funny how these little people teach us things.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: But I I I do like going back to your your experience, your history of everything that happened um with our loss and our struggles and stuff.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: I think because we've struggled, like we're learning to see um that we don't have to do everything perfectly or the way it's nothing is straight and narrow.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: It's it is like little detours here and there.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: So if that means we miss, you know, theme days and we miss certain things and then prioritize certain things, we're all gonna run fine.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: The family is gonna run fine, everyone's gonna survive, everyone's gonna be good because we have um other experiences that has humbled us so that we don't worry about the perfection of things.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: We have never had to strive for perfection because everything imperfect has been thrown our way health-wise, fertility-wise, building our family, the simple, the simple things that people take for granted or that we took for granted once upon a time.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why your story is so profound because uh it's full circle and it's being carried into your parenting style, which is let go of the things that matter.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: That don't matter, don't let go of the things that matter.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't listen to what I just said.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm not the house.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm just I'm just here I'm the furniture, I'm not the furniture here.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: Don't even listen to me.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I am gonna ask you one very, very important question.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: If you had a bottle, if you had to bottle one motherhood moment that sums up your parenting journey, what would that be?
50:10
SPEAKER_02: That would be the day I brought my daughter home.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: And we got to all be together as a family after, you know, months of not being together as a family.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: Because it was the day that I my daughter is home, she is alive, she is safe, and it's like I could walk up to that family building book and I could close it.
50:38
SPEAKER_02: And I could put it on the shelf.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't have to open it again if I never wanted to open it again.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, from this day forward, we can go forward.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: We can move forward.
50:49
SPEAKER_02: We don't, so that was like that was the best day.
50:52
SPEAKER_02: We I we super corny, but it was 2020.
50:55
SPEAKER_02: We hired a photographer to be at our house for us so that I could capture, uh, oh, I remember I could capture the look on my son's face when he saw his little sister for the first time.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: So that was like the most special day.
51:11
SPEAKER_02: And Dev will remember that we made a little detour on our way home.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: Tiny baby detour.
51:22
SPEAKER_02: A little teeny tiny baby detour.
51:24
SPEAKER_02: And I showed up at your house with my baby you didn't know was released from the hospital yet.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: It was supposed to be happening soon, but I didn't know it was going to be known.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: And I was wearing my Moo Moo.
51:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes, because your husband, bless his little heart, did not tell you to put something nicer on.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: I had to give him the eye because I remember that moment, but I, you know, I stared for a second because I'm like, there's a photographer hiding in the bushes.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: And she's going to capture this incredible milestone moment, and I'm wearing a moo moo.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: You looked beautiful in your moo moo.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: You looked so good.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, what was what was great about it is that I could just burrow my face into your into your shoulder.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Actually, it was probably lower because you're much taller.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: And I, and the baby was in, you know, baby June was in your arms.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: And the excitement that Isaac felt coming in, and I like an Ella, like everyone was just so excited to see her come.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm so honored that you took that detour.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that is a milestone moment.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna bottle that up as one of my motherhood moments too, because that really, that really was our full circle.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah.
52:32
SPEAKER_02: Both of our families are complete and now like shut that book.
52:36
SPEAKER_02: We don't have to do fertility treatments anymore.
52:39
SPEAKER_02: We don't have to worry about pregnancy loss anymore.
52:42
SPEAKER_02: And now we are opening the now.
52:44
SPEAKER_02: I have two kids and have to balance everything book.
52:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then we have to talk about teenage hoodies.
52:49
SPEAKER_02: Nobody warned me that book was so snake.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: It's a really big book.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: And I could barely finish books as it is, you know.
52:57
SPEAKER_00: So that was a little bit more.
52:58
SPEAKER_00: Do they have it on audiobook?
53:01
SPEAKER_00: Be easier if they did.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: That is that is a tool.
53:04
SPEAKER_00: Audiobooks is the way to uh read books these days with our brains.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're veering off because I need to get you home in bed because you have been so kind to come here and share your story.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna do this thing called fast round, which is spill the sass, because this is sass and small talk.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: You are going to tell me the first thing that comes to mind when I ask you the following questions.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Are you ready?
53:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you can do it.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: You can do this.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: You can do this, Jen.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: One word to describe your parenting style today.
53:39
SPEAKER_02: Messy.
53:40
SPEAKER_00: Mmm, one thing you secretly let slide bath time.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: In the summer.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
53:50
SPEAKER_02: When we're going in pools and sprinklers.
53:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, do they smell if they don't smell to me, they don't smell to you.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: We're good.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: We're good.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: Gosh.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay, what is your biggest pet peeve in your home that you just can't let go of?
54:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sugar.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: Sand.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: Sand.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: And velvet.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, velvet.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: She made me get rid of the pillow because there's velvet on there.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: And I forgot, as my sister, as as as her sister, I should have known this.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: She's not a fan of velvet, but now sand too.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Sand, because it it's on everything.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: It's like every little crack bit gets on the children, and then this sand gets in the bed, and I'm like princess in the pea, and I can feel every grain of sand against my skin.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, remember never to give you anything with sand in it.
54:36
SPEAKER_02: Like sand is fine.
54:37
SPEAKER_02: It's contained.
54:38
SPEAKER_02: Contained sand.
54:39
SPEAKER_02: Or that that uh kinetic sand is the worst.
54:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you don't like kinetic sand.
54:44
SPEAKER_02: It makes your floor slippery.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's true.
54:47
SPEAKER_02: Very slippery.
54:48
SPEAKER_02: But it's like it's so condensed.
54:49
SPEAKER_02: It very sticks together.
54:50
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but I don't know.
54:52
SPEAKER_02: That sand is a pet peeve.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: That's a really hard one.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, in the house, it could be, yeah, that's a pet peeve.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: I I that I I I I feel you on that one.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay, parenting hack.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: A parenting hack you can swear by.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: One.
55:06
SPEAKER_00: You've said a few.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, snackle boxes.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: What's that?
55:10
SPEAKER_02: What's that?
55:12
SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a tackle box, but it's a snackle box.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: So you fill it with snacks, and then you open it up, and there's like a bunch of containers with snacks in them.
55:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's not a bento box, isn't that just a snack thing?
55:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, no, because it's the snackle box has all these boxes that go inside the box.
55:30
SPEAKER_02: Boxes isn't inside the box.
55:30
SPEAKER_02: It's a box inside the box, box inception.
55:33
SPEAKER_02: But are you are you throwing this in the fridge first or just live in your car?
55:37
SPEAKER_02: No, it's in your house, but you constantly can like fill things in the snackle box, or the night before you put things in the snackle box.
55:42
SPEAKER_02: A lot of time, it's the best for like non-perishable food things.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay, non-perishable.
55:46
SPEAKER_02: Non-perishables, but sometimes I'll stick like fruit in it, or I'll stick like the like non-stoggy food.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, no, don't put soggy food on the band.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: Great.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: But then you have the snackle box and you leave, and then you've got this like smorgasborg of snacks.
55:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like a chiccutre.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: It is with for children.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: Children.
56:01
SPEAKER_02: It's a snackle box, and it's the best.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: It's like a bento box, but it's like big.
56:07
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
56:08
SPEAKER_02: It's a snackle box.
56:09
SPEAKER_02: And people were making them out of actual tackle boxes, but that's not really food based.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: Not really food space.
56:13
SPEAKER_02: No, so then they made snackle boxes.
56:15
SPEAKER_02: So there's an actual snackle box, snackle box.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: It's a snackle box, snackle box, yeah.
56:19
SPEAKER_02: I how many times have we said snackle box?
56:21
SPEAKER_02: I'd have to count.
56:22
SPEAKER_00: I should have had one here.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: You should have had a snackle box here.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: Next time.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: Snackle box.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, here we go.
56:29
SPEAKER_00: If you were stranded on a non-Victoria Island with just your kids and Craig, your husband, what's the one thing in your just in case bag?
56:37
SPEAKER_00: I think you just answered that.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean my snack goes, but I also have a oh goodness.
56:44
SPEAKER_02: It could be for your benefit.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be for the kids, but like I've already had it in my bag?
56:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, you'd put it in the case.
56:50
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be a first aid kit.
56:51
SPEAKER_02: Oh, she's so responsible.
56:53
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna always be a first aid kit.
56:55
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
56:55
SPEAKER_02: There's probably a first aid kit in my bag right now.
56:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're so good.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: She's so good.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now I feel shame.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: I would have thought something else like a bug.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no.
57:05
SPEAKER_00: Maybe something like water.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: No.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, that's just a little bit more.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: So there should be water.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: Am I thinking too practical?
57:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, then if we're not being practical, I want fully charged devices that never die.
57:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a good one.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: That's a good one.
57:21
SPEAKER_00: I want a tablet that never dies.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: Never dies.
57:24
SPEAKER_00: What for your benefit or for the kids' benefit?
57:26
SPEAKER_00: Both.
57:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: This is where we could take the shame away from screen time.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, we're spending it on an island.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: We need them to be kept busy.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: We'll be getting a lot of time.
57:35
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna get bored, okay?
57:36
SPEAKER_02: There's only so many like tic-tac-toe and like stick rock throwing things like that.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: And and don't even get us started about Jen liking sand.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, you like it outside.
57:44
SPEAKER_00: You don't love it.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't like when the sand gets attached to the kids and the kids bring the sand in the house.
57:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
57:50
SPEAKER_00: I feel you on that.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: One piece of advice that you would give another parent that is still waiting for the rainbow sunshine baby.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: What would that be?
57:59
SPEAKER_00: Don't lose yourself.
58:03
SPEAKER_00: In trying.
58:05
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: I wish I heard that years ago.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: I lost myself.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: I think we both did.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's why you can advise so wisely.
58:15
SPEAKER_00: Jen, thank you so much for coming here.
58:17
SPEAKER_00: I know you came here after a long day of work, after training for a marathon.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't know where she gets the energy.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: You came here and you shared your story so humbly and so generously.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of generosity, um But of course, you coming into my life, I probably wouldn't even be sitting here if I was still on that train of uh hopelessness and trying to get that baby and get my family.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: You helped expedite that.
58:48
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm so grateful to you.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: Um but also today you shared your story of what life really looks like after the rainbow, which will serve so many families.
58:59
SPEAKER_00: Um people who haven't even experienced loss or who will never experience this kind of loss, baby loss, pregnancy loss.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: Um the fact that you can offer such wise words and humility.
59:11
SPEAKER_00: I am humbled.
59:12
SPEAKER_00: And I even know your story, like the back of my hand.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: I know your story, and yet I'm still so touched and moved by it.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
59:20
SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah.
59:22
SPEAKER_00: That's all I have to say about that.
59:24
SPEAKER_00: You know how grateful I am to you.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, but thank you for being real and thank you for being you.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: I love you.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: I love you too.
59:31
SPEAKER_00: And for all of you out there who are still, you know, waiting and grieving and choosing hope.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: You are seen.
59:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, you are not alone.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: And I thank you so much for joining us here on Sass and Small Talk, the mental load of parenthood, because it does take a village to raise a child and a community to raise their parent.
59:51
SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you on the next episode of Sass and Small Talk.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: Bye.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh my different how did we do it?
1:00:00
SPEAKER_00: How did we do it?
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: We did it.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_00: We did it.