Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #98: Questions? We've Got Some Good Ones!

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#98: Questions? We've Got Some Good Ones! · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, everyone.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: The Deep Grace Diving Podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Tim Wright, along with Don D. Burgess.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hey there.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Terry is not with us again today because her internet is still down.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you may be thinking, wow, that's a long time for it to be down.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: But we actually recorded that.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: We should just go back to you.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's at the dentist.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's still at the dentist.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 0:40
  This is episode 98,
• 0:42
  which means,
• 0:43
  John,
• 0:43
  how many more episodes till we hit 200?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, 100.
• 0:48
  200 if we make it and fortunately it's not a podcast that uh is
• 0:55
  based upon our
• 0:55
  knowledge of math we got two more to celebrate the the big the
• 1:00
  big milestone all
• 1:01
  right 100 it's coming up well we'll figure out something
• 1:04
  interesting for it all
• 1:06
  right so john uh does a um a youth group up at his church uh
• 1:12
  and uh has um
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: may I say,
• 1:15
  sort of veered from the curriculum to allow the kids to create
• 1:19
  their own curriculum
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: through their questions about faith and so on.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is that fair?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: That is right.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's Wednesday nights and these are amazing kids.
• 1:30
  I mean,
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  you know,
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  I think I tell them every single time I'm astonished that
• 1:34
  they're there.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like after a full day of school,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: They've, uh, tried to get something to run back over to church.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: and I think they really like,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just have them submit anonymous questions and that seems to be,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: we,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: we get to talk about some great stuff when they do.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they,
• 1:54
  they submit amazing questions and they've really kind of opened
• 1:58
  up at least
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: anonymously.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm super proud of them.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I always found, uh, when I would do ask pastor Tim and church, um,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: The best questions always came from kids and the youth.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: They just tend not to filter them, right?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And questions sometimes,
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: not always,
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  SPEAKER_00: but sometimes can seem really simple,
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  SPEAKER_00: and then you find out that's not a simple question at all.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the stuff that they're wrestling with,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: from a theological perspective,
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: from a,
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
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  SPEAKER_01: biblical perspective,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: from a school perspective,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: from a life perspective,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: just really good stuff.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: if when,
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  SPEAKER_01: because I think that,
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  SPEAKER_01: um,
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  SPEAKER_01: some of them are listening,
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  SPEAKER_01: I just want them to know that,
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: their teacher,
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Kim and I are just super proud of them.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:51
  We've got a few questions from them that we thought our
• 2:53
  listeners would enjoy.
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  SPEAKER_00: So here we go.
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  SPEAKER_00: Question number one.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So this is actually two questions, but kind of closely related.
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  SPEAKER_01: So and they're both about prayer.
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  Even though I pray almost every day,
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  why is it that when I don't pray,
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  I feel sad or depressed?
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  And then the second kind of related one is how valuable is
• 3:15
  worship and prayer to God?
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  SPEAKER_01: If I'm going to heaven, no matter what, does it matter?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:27
  So,
• 3:28
  John,
• 3:29
  let's just imagine you've got all those kids sitting in front
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  of you,
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  rapt attention.
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  SPEAKER_00: Every one of them,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: they aren't thinking about anything else right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: but John,
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  SPEAKER_00: what kind of John wisdom are we going to get in this moment?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I have to tell you,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: if there's a tension,
• 3:48
  it's because I totally bait good questions and participation
• 3:55
  with high-protein
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  SPEAKER_01: snacks.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'll use anything to get along.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the first question,
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  SPEAKER_01: even though I pray every day,
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: almost every day,
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  SPEAKER_01: why is it that when I don't pray,
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel sad or depressed?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's super interesting because...
• 4:15
  You know,
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  prayer is,
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  as we talked about in the last podcast,
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  ideally relational.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got this highly relational God.
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  SPEAKER_01: Most of scripture is explaining to us what God is like,
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  SPEAKER_01: and it's always wanting to be in relationship.
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  And I think it's actually good to miss prayer time and then
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  feel a little bit like
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  SPEAKER_01: you missed some quality time with God,
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  SPEAKER_01: whatever that looked like.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I think a part of that is to miss that time is good.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think when I miss the time with my wife, I miss her.
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  SPEAKER_01: And there's a longing in the heart for that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And certainly God would have built us with that longing.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think that's well said.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: As you were talking, I was remembering a song...
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Larnell Harris, who's a great gospel singer.
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  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
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  We had a chance to bring him to a church I was pastoring at
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  many years ago.
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  SPEAKER_00: He had a big song.
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  SPEAKER_00: Must have been in the 90s, maybe.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's called I Miss My Time With You.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was Jesus God singing to us.
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  SPEAKER_00: I miss my time with you.
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  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
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  SPEAKER_00: fascinating way of looking at prayer, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: That Jesus misses time with us.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: he doesn't think less of us because we're not praying,
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  SPEAKER_00: but Jesus is a relational God who wants to spend time with us.
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  And it may be in some ways you're missing Jesus or your prayer
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  time is sort of that
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  SPEAKER_00: quiet spirit of Jesus saying,
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  SPEAKER_00: hey,
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  SPEAKER_00: I miss you too.
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  SPEAKER_00: Let's get together.
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  SPEAKER_00: And let's spend some time.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say, uh, let me say this as a pastor.
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  Um,
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  I think it's really healthy to miss your,
• 6:18
  to,
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  to not to,
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  I gotta find the right word.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to say to miss your prayer time.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean, I mean, if you don't do it, you miss not doing it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um,
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  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe just take a little bit of pressure off of yourself and say,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: if you do miss one,
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  SPEAKER_00: you don't need to kind of beat yourself up over it.
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  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to feel bad about it.
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  In any relationship,
• 6:54
  there are times where you spend more time with each other than
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  others.
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  SPEAKER_00: than other times.
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  SPEAKER_00: And even husbands and wives who really love each other,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: they can go hours and hours and hours without talking to each other.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes days if they're not in the same state or whatever.
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  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't change the relationship.
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  You just sort of feel an emptiness when that person is in your
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  life or you haven't connected.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's healthy.
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  But we don't want to be beating ourselves up if we haven't had
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  our prayer time.
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  yeah it's not a it's not a law it's a uh a guideline yeah and
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  it's not even it's a
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  grace it's a grace it's a grace yeah and maybe that gets to how
• 7:40
  valuable is worship
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  and prayer to god does it you know if i'm if i'm going to
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  heaven no matter what
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  SPEAKER_01: what what is the value what is how does it matter yeah um
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  This is one of those questions that on the surface it seems
• 7:58
  fairly simple,
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  SPEAKER_00: but there's some good depth to it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I have heard people from time to time suggest that the God of Israel,
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  SPEAKER_00: the God of Jesus,
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  SPEAKER_00: is a narcissistic God.
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  Because this God seems to demand that we think about this God
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  all the time,
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  SPEAKER_00: that we worship this God,
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  SPEAKER_00: that we make sacrifices to this God.
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  SPEAKER_00: That this God, you know, to put it really plainly, it's just me, me, me.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you could get that impression.
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  SPEAKER_00: But that's not what the heart of God is about.
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  The heart of God is about coming to us and showering us with
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  grace and love and
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  SPEAKER_00: compassion and mercy.
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  SPEAKER_00: And
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  SPEAKER_00: We don't necessarily worship God for God's sake.
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  SPEAKER_00: God doesn't need our worship to exist.
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  SPEAKER_00: We worship God because God knows that worship is healthy for us.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because it refocuses on God's love for us.
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  SPEAKER_00: It helps us see God again.
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  SPEAKER_00: We all worship God.
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  SPEAKER_00: things that aren't God.
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  SPEAKER_00: To worship means to place high value on.
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  SPEAKER_00: And not everything that we place high value on is bad for us.
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  SPEAKER_00: I place a high value on my wife and my kids and my grandkids.
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  But there are certain things in life where we become so
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  obsessed with them,
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  SPEAKER_00: place such a high value on them,
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  SPEAKER_00: that they actually distract us from the things that are really important.
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  And what worship of God does is it reconnects us with what's
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  really important in life.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's to start with the source of life,
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  SPEAKER_00: God,
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  SPEAKER_00: to focus on God,
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  SPEAKER_00: God's love for us,
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  SPEAKER_00: to remind ourselves of God's love for us.
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  SPEAKER_00: Worship has nothing to do with our salvation,
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  SPEAKER_00: has nothing to do with whether or not we go to heaven.
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  SPEAKER_00: Worship is about a quality of life right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: living the God life now,
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  SPEAKER_00: living in the joy and presence of God.
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  And worship reminds us of who God is,
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  just as we did with the Lord's Prayer a couple weeks ago.
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  When we pray,
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  it's to remind us of who God is,
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  to reconnect with the source of life.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's why worship is important.
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  SPEAKER_00: We don't always worship because we feel like it.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we don't feel like it.
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  I think that's the beauty of corporate worship is when I don't
• 10:44
  feel like it,
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  SPEAKER_00: or even if I do,
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  SPEAKER_00: we get together with other people and we join in,
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  SPEAKER_00: in similar rituals that we can all do together and shape us.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's the other thing that worship does is it forms us.
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  SPEAKER_00: It shapes us into God's children.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because what we worship,
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  SPEAKER_00: forms us and shapes us.
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  SPEAKER_00: We become what we worship.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why it's important.
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  SPEAKER_00: Not because God demands it, but because God gifts it to us.
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  SPEAKER_00: It is a way for us to stay connected with God,
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  SPEAKER_00: to remind us that God is God and we're not,
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  SPEAKER_00: and that's a good thing.
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  And to take our focus off all the stuff in life that robs us of
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  life and put our
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: focus again on the one who gives us life and gives it abundantly.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  and I'm going to go on a little bit of a tangent because I just
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  want to make sure
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: that this point is heard.
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  You said sort of the quality of worship is not wholly based
• 11:50
  upon the exuberance to
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: which I approach church.
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  or said i think what you said was you know part of the value of
• 12:01
  corporate worship
• 12:03
  is there's always going to be folks there and sometimes it's me
• 12:07
  in the congregation
• 12:08
  that just had to drag themselves to church that day right and
• 12:11
  right the the
• 12:13
  corporateness of the of the communal worship brings everybody
• 12:17
  along for the ride
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  that's right and and it's uh it's the kind of thing where i've
• 12:24
  said before in this
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: podcast
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  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I can't,
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  SPEAKER_00: I just don't have the faith to believe anymore,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: but the people around me will believe for me.
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  SPEAKER_00: They sort of become the ones who hold me.
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  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like the man who was brought to Jesus,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: the paralyzed man brought to Jesus on map by his friends.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, his friends believed for him.
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  SPEAKER_00: They held him.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you go to worship and you may not feel like it,
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  SPEAKER_00: but that corporate sense,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: these are people who are,
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  SPEAKER_00: they're going to worship when I can't.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm going to worship when they can't.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we do it together.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's why everything, it's always so communal.
• 13:03
  If we're,
• 13:03
  if we're out being just Jesus and me,
• 13:07
  that's when we start getting stuck.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, I, I don't, well, it's Jesus and me.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And today I don't feel like talking to Jesus.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And pretty soon then in a week later,
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't talked to him forever and you just sort of lose contact.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're in church and so on and so forth,
• 13:21
  even if you don't feel like it there are people there who just
• 13:24
  kind of put their
• 13:25
  arms around you metaphorically speaking and draw you back into
• 13:29
  the story yeah yeah
• 13:31
  yeah yeah metaphorically speaking or this sunday it was hands
• 13:35
  on shoulders actual
• 13:36
  hands on shoulders uh for those that were interested in just um
• 13:41
  in kind of a
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: communal nature yeah yeah next question
• 13:47
  uh how can i tell if my actions reflect jesus in my life and
• 13:53
  then also you know i
• 13:56
  these these kids are great i oftentimes get multiple questions
• 14:00
  on one small sheet
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  of paper so how can i tell if my actions reflect jesus in my
• 14:04
  life and why is it so
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: hard maintaining consistency in my walk with god yeah
• 14:17
  Well,
• 14:19
  for the first one,
• 14:21
  the more we hang with Jesus,
• 14:23
  the more we're going to act like Jesus.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I got to qualify that.
• 14:31
  Because there are a lot of people today who claim they're
• 14:35
  hanging with Jesus and
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: are doing some pretty vile stuff.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're judgmental.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're angry.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're grievance-based.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: They want to get rid of certain people groups.
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  SPEAKER_00: There's no love of Jesus in their lives at all.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're not really hanging with Jesus.
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  They're hanging with other grumpy Christians,
• 14:58
  but they're not really hanging with Jesus.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when I say hanging with Jesus will be more like Jesus,
• 15:04
  I'm talking about some of these kids may not even know what
• 15:07
  this is because they
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: probably have never read a Bible before.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: They've read the Bible on an app.
• 15:13
  But it used to be that we would print out Bibles and Jesus'
• 15:17
  words would be
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: red-lettered so they would stand out.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:22
  And so there's been a lot of talk in the last couple of years
• 15:26
  of the red-letter
• 15:27
  Jesus and taking seriously the words of Jesus and the actions
• 15:33
  of Jesus and
• 15:38
  So the more we hang with those words of Jesus and find out what
• 15:42
  Jesus is like,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: then we can say,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: are my actions like Jesus?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you start by asking, well, what's Jesus like?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he loves people.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: He calls us to love even our enemies.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: He says, pray for those who persecute you.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: He wants us to be generous.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: He wants us to be compassionate.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: He wants us to be kind.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: He wants us to be self-giving.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: accepting, those are the things that Jesus does.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not talking specifics there,
• 16:16
  but if your life is being lived sort of shaped by those values
• 16:22
  and virtues,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: those red letters of Jesus,
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: then your life is going to look like Jesus.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and how do we balance the...
• 16:38
  The impossible feat that we put on ourselves at times to always
• 16:44
  do only those things.
• 16:48
  Sometimes I think,
• 16:49
  you know,
• 16:50
  I want to be like Jesus,
• 16:51
  but I'm not actually Jesus.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's okay.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think it's really okay.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you walk through life and it's a little bit like...
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's an unobtainable goal, I think.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: But yet there's real value and beauty in trying to obtain it,
• 17:17
  in rethinking how I'm relating to people and how I'm relating
• 17:22
  to myself and sort of
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: what does that compassion look like for myself and for others,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: but also knowing that I'm not going to get to Jesus level.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to take just a little tangent and I'll come back.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Martin Luther,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: the Protestant Reformation leader,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: 500 some years ago said,
• 17:44
  be aware of aspiring to such purity that you no longer wish to
• 17:50
  be looked upon or
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: seen or considered a sinner.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: For Christ dwells only in sinners.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Christ dwells only in sinners.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Luther used a phrase,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to get a little theological here,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: he called it an alien righteousness.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Alien righteousness.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Alien righteousness,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: meaning that when Jesus lives in us,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: there's an outside,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: an alien righteousness,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: not alien as in someone from another planet,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: but something from outside of us,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: i.e.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus lives in us.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: The righteousness of Jesus lives in us.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 18:33
  And I think sometimes we forget that this isn't first and
• 18:36
  foremost about me trying
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: to do things.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is about Jesus desiring to live through my life.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the spirit of Jesus living in me is the power to live that life.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that Jesus only lives that life through sinful people.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we're never going to get it right.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And never asked us to.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: What he's asked us to do is to...
• 19:03
  These questions should be sort of in the backs of our minds all
• 19:06
  the time.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Am I being loving?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is this serving my neighbor?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Am I accepting of people?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Am I generous?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not going to ask those questions every time you do something.
• 19:24
  Those are questions that you sort of want the Spirit of God to
• 19:26
  shape in you.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: as you live your life.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or as Paul says it,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: the fruits of the Spirit are love,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: joy,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: peace,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: patience,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: kindness,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: goodness,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: faithfulness,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: gentleness,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: and self-control.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: that's what it looks like to live like Jesus,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: to love,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: joy,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: peace,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: patience,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: kindness,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: goodness,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: faithfulness,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: and self-control.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to do it perfectly.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's asked us to.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: But is that the vibe I want to live with?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the vibe I'm asking Jesus to live through me?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: just to get in the habit in the morning,
• 20:02
  first thing when you wake up and you thank God for the day and
• 20:06
  for good night's
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: sleep,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: you say,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: use me today.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Live through me today.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Help me see you and other people.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And not always easy, by the way.
• 20:16
  And that doesn't mean that we don't take a stand for certain
• 20:20
  things,
• 20:21
  right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because justice demands we take stands against certain things.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: But if we want to be on the side of Jesus,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus is always on the side of the poor,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: the oppressed,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: the broken,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: the vulnerable,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: those who don't have a voice.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Rarely was he on the side of the powerful.
• 20:39
  Not because he's anti-powerful,
• 20:42
  but because the powerful really have no need of grace.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they think.
• 20:49
  So,
• 20:50
  you know,
• 20:51
  if we want to sort of say,
• 20:52
  am I living the life Jesus wants for me?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Am I living a life of love,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: joy,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: peace,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: patience,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: kindness,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: goodness,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: faithfulness,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: gentleness,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: and self-control?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I lived a lot of my life trying to measure up to that stuff.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, perfectionism in the kingdom of God is just not a great gift.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a perfectionist.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And thankfully, I'm mostly perfect.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, that does take some of the pressure.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank goodness.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Yeah,
• 21:25
  but we're called to live in relationship,
• 21:29
  not in rules,
• 21:30
  in relationship.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: to go back,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: say to marriage,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: when Jan and I were married,
• 21:37
  my relationship with her changed me and the way I interact with
• 21:41
  her and with life,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 21:43
  And so my relationship with Jesus changes me and the way I
• 21:46
  interact with life.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And just remember, it's Jesus living in me.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he only lives in sitting with people.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to get it right all the time.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: But if my heart's desire is to live like Jesus,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be a loving,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: caring,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: compassionate,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: forgiving person.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the short answer would be if,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: if,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: if Jesus is it,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: the question was,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: how can I tell if my actions reflect Jesus in my life?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: The answer that a shorter answer might be,
• 22:12
  does your life reflect the goodness of Jesus in yourself and in
• 22:16
  those around you?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it so hard maintaining consistency in my walk with God?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're a sinful human being.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Next question.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:36
  And,
• 22:36
  you know,
• 22:36
  when we hear that sinful human being,
• 22:38
  we think,
• 22:38
  oh,
• 22:38
  I'm a worm.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm, you know, I'm this, I'm that.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're just a human being.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And human beings have a lot of stuff going on in our lives.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a lot of voices.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So part of this is part of this is human nature.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:55
  Part of it is what is my,
• 22:57
  what is supposed to be my,
• 22:59
  my goal as far as consistency?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how am I supposed to be measuring that?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is easy to say,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: and it shouldn't be hard to live,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm going to say anyway,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: just get up in the morning and live like you're loved.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Live like you're loved.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just,
• 23:20
  god loves me so i'm just gonna live my life luther said sin
• 23:25
  boldly and believe more
• 23:26
  boldly still and what he meant by that was not go out and
• 23:30
  intentionally sin
• 23:31
  basically he meant as you're a child of god you're loved by god
• 23:34
  now just go live
• 23:35
  your life live like you're loved and if you sin don't worry
• 23:39
  about it jesus has got
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: you but just live your life and and live as someone who's loved and
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't beat yourself up over it when you don't quite get it right,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: because that's not what Jesus wants for you anyway.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you could get it right all the time, you wouldn't need Jesus.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not me for sure.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: When you are feeling down,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: discouraged and hopeless about current situations,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: where in scripture do you turn?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a two-part answer to this.
• 24:22
  The first part would be we live in a world today with instant
• 24:32
  access to what's
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: going on in the world.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not healthy for us by any stretch of the imagination.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And this is my worldview sense.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: that social media not only feeds us too much bad stuff all the time,
• 24:57
  but because of social media and because social media only works
• 25:00
  best when bad stuff
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: is happening,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: it has created a lot of bad actors in the world.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: The worse our politicians are, the more press they get, right?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the crazier we are because the more we hear about it, for example.
• 25:16
  So I think part of the answer begins with getting off of some
• 25:20
  of that stuff.
• 25:22
  And there are times when I,
• 25:23
  I,
• 25:25
  I just have to force myself to take a news break.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I, I love knowing what's going on.
• 25:31
  I want to keep up on what's going on,
• 25:33
  but there are times I think I,
• 25:35
  I just got to stop.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I, this is, I can't do this anymore.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 25:41
  So I think that there are a lot of people who say we really
• 25:44
  need to take a break
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: from our technology one day a week,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tech Sabbath.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: We know that a lot of the people behind things like social media and AI,
• 25:57
  they don't allow their kids to have any of that stuff because
• 25:59
  they know how bad it
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: is because they created it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: there's really,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: excuse me,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: as I told the,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: as I told,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've told them several times on Wednesday nights,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I said,
• 26:09
  there's really no research contradicting the idea that social
• 26:14
  media has been
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: devastating on the mental health,
• 26:17
  particularly for people under 20 and even more particularly for
• 26:23
  girls under 20.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's just no, there's no research that contradicts that.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we really need to be aware of that.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And for those who are interested,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Jonathan Haidt,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: H-A-I-D-T,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: has written a book called The Anxious Generation,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: one of the best researched books on the impacts of social media.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now we have the research, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: We've got the years.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: To know what it's doing to all of us.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it just makes all of us more angry, all of us.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then that makes, for example, our politics more angry.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then because our politics are angry, we get angrier and so on.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we need to weed off of that.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of where to go in the Bible,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's sort of up to the individual what it is they feel they need.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: The Psalms, the Book of Psalms, they're poems.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what makes them unique is that they tend to be...
• 27:24
  both the emotive and visceral response that that the writers
• 27:28
  are having to
• 27:29
  circumstances in their own lives um you know whether their
• 27:33
  country's being attacked
• 27:35
  or they feel like they're attacked themselves um you got to
• 27:39
  read them a little bit
• 27:39
  carefully because sometimes they're being intensely honest um
• 27:45
  you know and human
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And human, right.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so they'll say,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: God,
• 27:50
  I want you to take the babies of my enemies and dash them
• 27:53
  against the rocks.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't think that's the attitude God wants us to have.
• 27:58
  What makes that psalm honest is that sometimes we feel like
• 28:02
  saying that,
• 28:03
  right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:04
  Then the psalmist eventually turns to God and says,
• 28:06
  no,
• 28:07
  God,
• 28:08
  be God,
• 28:09
  right?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: You are loving your compassion.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there are times, and there's a thing, they're called lament psalms.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You could do a little Google research.
• 28:18
  Lament psalms are psalms of grief,
• 28:21
  of loss,
• 28:23
  of separation,
• 28:24
  whatever it might be.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Those could be helpful.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Psalm 23, we just mentioned that in the last podcast.
• 28:30
  There's some nice psalms that just are affirmation psalms,
• 28:33
  remind us of who God is.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's always good just to read...
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: a paragraph a day or a chapter a day from,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: the new Testament from the stories of Jesus.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I always recommend people start with the gospel of Mark.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: you're kind of need a brain cleanse,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: read some stories of Jesus and,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: let him refresh your mind with,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: with grace and love and compassion.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those are a couple of places to, uh, to start book of Psalms.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then, uh,
• 29:07
  uh the gospels like the gospel of mark yeah yeah good tim how
• 29:15
  come it feels like
• 29:16
  christians have a somewhat harder life than non-christians this
• 29:20
  is our last
• 29:20
  question yeah how come it feels like christians have a somewhat
• 29:23
  harder life than
• 29:24
  non-christians it's an interesting question because it's about
• 29:30
  perspective yeah um
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that question is asked a little bit in the Bible.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: God, why is it the wicked prosper and your people don't?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Why are they doing so well and we're not?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And of course,
• 29:50
  you might go over to the wicked side and find out they're
• 29:52
  asking the same question
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: about you.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: How come those guys are doing so well?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to say,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: my first thought on this question is absolutely this thing that I do,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: and I think all humans do,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: we're always comparing ourselves to the other person's A-game.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, social media is all about the A-game.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: they're having a great vacation and I'm just slogging away here,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: or they're having this great dinner,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: whatever it is that
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: that you're noticing when you flip by.
• 30:23
  We just always assume that everyone else is performing at a
• 30:27
  high level and we're
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: stuck in drudgery.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there are,
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 30:33
  there are places where it is no fun to be a Christian in terms
• 30:38
  of the way culture
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: treats people.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: The United States of America is not one of them.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're free here to worship as we want.
• 30:46
  There are some who are trying to make Christianity the national
• 30:48
  religion,
• 30:49
  which is a bad idea.
• 30:52
  but in some places,
• 30:54
  Christians are being persecuted for their faith,
• 30:57
  and it is harder for them.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I do wonder if sometimes,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: especially when we're kids,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm a long way from that,
• 31:07
  and we kind of look at our friends who maybe aren't involved in
• 31:11
  faith a lot,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: involved in church,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: and they seem to be having fun and
• 31:20
  A lot of Christianity for youth has been defined as if it's
• 31:23
  fun,
• 31:24
  that's not Christianity.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand my meaning?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it can feel like it's harder.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got to be a good person.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I can't get myself into trouble and so on and so forth.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: That can feel a little hard.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just... Again, I think people who know they're loved...
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: are people who are free to live.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: People who know they're loved are people who are free to live.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can just remind ourselves that God loves us and,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: start the morning,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: God,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: thank you that you love me.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Remind me today of your love for me and live in that love.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: We begin to see life differently.
• 32:16
  And it doesn't make life easier,
• 32:18
  but you just live with a whole different attitude toward life.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:27
  As we wrap up,
• 32:28
  I'm grateful that you make me look so smart on Wednesday
• 32:32
  nights.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good, good.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: I should probably be giving you a little more credit than I have.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, you can take all the credit you want, John.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're a prideful man.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, yeah.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm still working on that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working on that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank your kids for me, for them being a part of our podcast.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure in a month from now,
• 32:55
  we'll probably do it again because they're constantly asking
• 32:58
  you great questions.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: we have no idea,
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: to be honest,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: what we're going to be doing next week for episode 99 or episode 100.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: But believe me, it's going to be something amazing.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: We've got some exciting things.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're not sure which exciting thing is next.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 33:14
  We've got some things in the hopper,
• 33:17
  but we hope you'll tune back next week.
• 33:19
  And please tell your friends to give a listen to the Deep Grace
• 33:22
  Diving podcast.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: John, thank you.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, Terry's got her internet fixed.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and her teeth.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everyone.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.