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Will Davison | Part 2 - F1 testing and a new chapter in Supercars · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:19
  G'day, it's Rusty here.
• 0:19
  All set for part two of my feature episode with Will Davison.
• 0:23
  If you've somehow missed part one, head back to the Garage Library and enjoy the listen.
• 0:28
  Will's recollection of his family racing history is brilliant.
• 0:32
  The story of a World War II Spitfire race avoiding capture is incredible.
• 0:38
  There's also Will's own story of his early years, how he stopped racing for a little while in karts before a light switch moment that saw him back in, deeply committed and on the pathway to a career behind the wheel in both Europe in single seaters and in Australia in supercars.
• 0:56
  And they are the chapters that we're going to focus on in this second part.
• 1:00
  A little footnote, I don't get to every story.
• 1:03
  I should have covered how Will and Rihanna, his wife, met, for example.
• 1:07
  But
• 1:07
  Will has shared a little bit of that already with our good friend of the podcast, Aaron Noonan, the V8 sleuth, and he did that pod prior to the pandemic.
• 1:15
  You might enjoy that at some stage.
• 1:17
  There is a little bit of road noise and some wind noise that creeps in at times in this second part, but I'm not going to make any apologies for that.
• 1:25
  It's nice to be outside and in a relaxed setting.
• 1:28
  Let's get back to it now.
• 1:31
  Right, for this second half, we're actually outside on a nice outdoor setting.
• 1:36
  The lake Topor is across the road from us.
• 1:39
  Before we get into Europe and supercars and whatever else, I want to tap into today.
• 1:46
  You actually raced that car we spoke about at the beginning of the first half.
• 1:51
  Nearly got a podium, too.
• 1:52
  That was good, mate, wasn't it?
• 1:54
  Yeah, the racer in me came out.
• 1:56
  I mean, in reality, I was, yeah, I mean, with such limited laps, you know, off the start, I just didn't know how to play it, even just, you know, open wheeler flow and that opening few corners at cars next to me, and I was very cautious.
• 2:16
  So it was kind of...
• 2:17
  Yeah, but then it started coming to me, and I was a bit disappointed I'd lost a couple of spots to some of those Formula Toyota cars, because they're just so different, the characteristics.
• 2:27
  They're very fast in the straight, but I was all over them in the corners.
• 2:30
  So I actually just wanted clear air, because I just wanted to enjoy the car and let it loose.
• 2:34
  So I started to do that.
• 2:35
  By the end, I started to figure the car out.
• 2:39
  But I was in this little battle with someone, which was fun.
• 2:42
  But I kind of didn't really need for that to be happening.
• 2:44
  But we had a really fun little race.
• 2:46
  But I was actually frustrated because I really wanted to test the maximum potential of that car.
• 2:51
  And I got close.
• 2:52
  To be honest, if we started now, I actually feel like quite at one with the car, which is great.
• 2:57
  Yeah.
• 2:58
  testing the ground effects and how you've got to drive it and having a chat to Kenny Smith when I got out of the car and toing and froing, which doesn't matter at all.
• 3:06
  But I still like to understand every car I drive.
• 3:09
  So I think at the end there, I really start to understand it.
• 3:12
  Apologies for a little bit of the wind noise kicking in.
• 3:14
  It's coming off the lake.
• 3:16
  But Kenny, I'm glad you mentioned Kenny Smith.
• 3:19
  He's kindly agreed in recent days to come on the podcast.
• 3:22
  I mean, his story, I don't know how the hell we're going to keep it to, like, one or two parts because he's just done so much in his time.
• 3:27
  Again, a little reflection of your love of history.
• 3:31
  You enjoyed that chat today with him, didn't you?
• 3:33
  I enjoyed the whole weekend.
• 3:34
  I kept saying to him, Kenny, this is an honor to be on the track with you.
• 3:39
  I've always, through my dad, who's always just worshipped Kenny, and you always keep an eye on him and just one of the –
• 3:46
  Crazy.
• 3:47
  He finished fifth today.
• 3:48
  Amazing.
• 3:48
  Yeah, and he was saying, I wanted to come up next to you, Will, and I could see him in my mirror there under the safety car.
• 3:54
  But just what a privilege, what a legend that we won't see the likes of Dan Smith ever again.
• 4:03
  And just at the end having a chat with him, just actually watching the telecast, the little feature story, and I just had to go and clarify something with him and say,
• 4:12
  was your first New Zealand Grand Prix 1965?
• 4:15
  He said, yeah.
• 4:16
  And I said, well, you know, Lex was on the front row with Jim Clark, Graham Hill, and he was killed two weeks later.
• 4:22
  And he said, that is exactly right, Will.
• 4:24
  And he said, I was in a Lotus, Lotus 22 or whatever he said he was in.
• 4:29
  But to think, there he was with Dash today.
• 4:31
  He grabbed my little son, threw Dash in his race car.
• 4:34
  We got a photo.
• 4:35
  So there's, he's raced my grandfather.
• 4:36
  He's raced my dad.
• 4:37
  He's raced me.
• 4:38
  Unreal.
• 4:38
  And just...
• 4:39
  He's out there just still loving it.
• 4:42
  Unreal.
• 4:42
  I love that stuff more than anything.
• 4:44
  That was a real privilege today to just be sitting next to him, getting changed with him, getting in the race car, real old school stuff, just the best.
• 4:50
  Brilliant.
• 4:51
  That naturally leads me to your time in the UK chasing the single-seater dream.
• 4:58
  You stitched together, mate, quite a group of backers and people, and that was hard work.
• 5:06
  to, you know, to pull it off and to go there.
• 5:09
  How do you frame that sort of chapter of your time now?
• 5:12
  Yeah, it all came back to me this weekend.
• 5:14
  You know, I saw Richard Dutton on the grid today from 4Tech Motorsport and I haven't seen him in 20 years.
• 5:20
  He hasn't changed.
• 5:21
  I mean, his team were first and second in the British Formula Renault Championship when I was fourth, Lewis Hamilton third.
• 5:27
  I had meetings with Richard Dutton.
• 5:28
  I mean, throw that into the mix as a deja vu this weekend, one seeing all these young kids with these dreams and aspirations and...
• 5:35
  feeling it smelling it tasting it but then to see like that it's just been a just blown me away this weekend because it's so long ago but yeah we had a good crack and we were very firmly fixated on getting to Europe and just I think now my dad probably wasn't that much older than I am now at that period and you know just what what he
• 5:57
  did for me to help my dream come true and you know a lot of his friends and backers and um the journey we went on to get over to firstly the formula ford festival after i'd won the australian formula ford series and just step by step work out what to do i mean i remember it so clearly was it formula renault did we do british formula ford which was very big back then over there um and i'd
• 6:20
  Yeah, it was just, yeah, it was one of those journeys that British Formula Renault went pretty quick.
• 6:27
  I remember first getting over there and, you know, I was probably in a four-car team, very established teammates who had, my teammate Rob Bell had actually won the Winter Series.
• 6:37
  Lewis Hamilton was new to the Series, but he'd done the Winter Series.
• 6:40
  So even the rookies had just done three or four races.
• 6:43
  I'd never driven wings and slicks.
• 6:45
  I never knew any of the circuits.
• 6:47
  So I just remember the thrill of going testing.
• 6:50
  And I mean, I thought I knew what pushing the limit was, but you thought you were pushing the limit and it was just, you do all these official test days and you're just half a second off and bit by bit.
• 6:59
  And I used to hear it from Michael Ritter and all my friends that had worked in Europe, but it's to the level, you know, the level you got to get to.
• 7:06
  It's just the best schooling because you think you're on it and you're absolutely nowhere and you've just got to dig and dig and dig.
• 7:13
  and take risks, tear corners off.
• 7:15
  I mean, we didn't have the budget to, but you're there every day.
• 7:18
  There's just cars hanging out of the fence, and you've just got to push the limits, and all the circuits there are very unforgiving.
• 7:24
  So I just remember always trying to push myself and ended up fourth in the championship that first year, my rookie year.
• 7:29
  We're pretty much equal third with Lewis in points and had a really, you know, was the lead car in my team at Motorworld, which I didn't expect.
• 7:37
  There were some amazing drivers on the grid that year.
• 7:40
  It's quite a roll call, mate.
• 7:41
  I mean, it was...
• 7:43
  I won't be able to recount them all and some of them may be from different parts of your time in Europe but I mean you talked Lewis there a moment ago, I mean I think Lucas Degrassi was over there, you know The list goes on, yeah, Degrassi, I mean Formula Renault there was Jamie Green and we had you know it was Pat Long, we had Ernesto Vizo I mean you had a lot of GT guys I mean Formula 3 was, the list went on the year I was there was obviously PK Junior and we had the Carlin boys, Alan Vandermeer it was and
• 8:11
  Gosh, who else?
• 8:12
  There was Will Powers, Robert Dalgram.
• 8:14
  But then Formula 1 was Scott Speed.
• 8:16
  But Kubica, I mean, there's when Ryan Briscoe won the Euro Series that year.
• 8:22
  Christian Clean wielded the Marlborough Masters.
• 8:26
  Awesome.
• 8:27
  A lot of big names.
• 8:28
  I'm probably missing a heaps.
• 8:29
  Nico Rosberg.
• 8:30
  Just, yeah, it was a pretty cool era to be a part of.
• 8:34
  What were some of them like back then?
• 8:36
  Because, I mean, Lewis is now a seven-time world champion.
• 8:38
  I mean, life changes significantly for him and for all of you.
• 8:42
  But you're all young people.
• 8:44
  youngsters having a go back then were they easygoing were they all these you know staunchly competitive types what were they they're all differently you know programmed probably but what were most of them like um i'm just kids um but it's dog eat dog it's aggressive there you go there and it's a real eye note just to the the sheer aggression of the racing yep um it's just ingrained in everyone it's the best of the best from every country trying to fit into
• 9:12
  you know, very few slots.
• 9:15
  But everyone lives in a hub as well.
• 9:17
  So every weekend you're not racing, you're all out.
• 9:20
  There's a party crew, you know.
• 9:23
  My mates were all Irish.
• 9:24
  It was actually Susie Stoddart, sorry, was in Formula Renault, Susie Wolfe.
• 9:28
  Yes.
• 9:28
  So it was a good friend of mine.
• 9:30
  She actually did Formula Renault the year I did it.
• 9:32
  Catherine Legg was in there.
• 9:33
  There was a couple of females.
• 9:34
  Okay.
• 9:34
  But Susie was part of the crew with Adam Carroll, who was a great driver, did some Formula 1 testing.
• 9:40
  It was Mike Conway, James Rosader,
• 9:42
  Some guys that have all, they were in Formula Renault the year I did it.
• 9:45
  The list, it's all coming back to me now.
• 9:48
  But there was a great, great party crew, Heike Kovalainen.
• 9:50
  I mean, there's a lot of guys part of that.
• 9:52
  Crew, James Courtney, obviously the Aussie.
• 9:55
  But, yeah, there was a real hub, a real camaraderie, just wild, wild childs.
• 10:00
  You know, we're all having a good time.
• 10:02
  But just hardcore racing, just testing every week, the mileage you're doing.
• 10:07
  You know, you get a few days off and just driving around the country.
• 10:09
  And you get to Formula 3, it got real serious.
• 10:12
  The budgets get serious.
• 10:14
  And just even the engineers, the mechanics, you know, when I went to dockings.
• 10:18
  You're based at Silverstone.
• 10:20
  I lived in Buckingham.
• 10:20
  You'd wake up every morning hearing the Jordans doing straight line testing or Mark Janay and the Williams.
• 10:25
  I'd just get out there, go to the workshop.
• 10:26
  That's so good.
• 10:27
  It was all very open then, but that was just normal living for me.
• 10:31
  And then F3 testing, all the engineers, they just loved F3.
• 10:35
  Everyone would stand on the pit wall, see those flat through cops.
• 10:38
  And I remember my first day in an F3 car, and it was like, you're a big boy once you get in an F3 car, because they were fast.
• 10:45
  And everyone loved F3.
• 10:46
  So that was a really exciting step.
• 10:48
  I'll never forget that first day in an F3 car at Silverstone.
• 10:53
  you know, it went really well, which led us to probably fast-track that process to make it happen to get into Formula 3.
• 10:58
  Yep.
• 10:59
  You worked, I mean, among the different backers and things, I think there was a bit of support from the Australian Motorsport Foundation and so on to stitch all this together, and you put your neck out on the block, mate, didn't you, basically, to have a crack at this?
• 11:11
  Yeah, we really did, rightly or wrongly.
• 11:13
  I mean, yeah, I mean, Dad, I mean, man of times when we enter F3,
• 11:19
  You know, Scott Speed was my teammate, so fully Red Bull-backed.
• 11:22
  He'd won the first Red Bull scholarship.
• 11:24
  Red Bull didn't have an F1 team.
• 11:26
  But I remember him being a flamboyant American, telling me he's going to be in F1 in two years with this Formula 1 Red Bull team.
• 11:34
  And I was sort of like, right on.
• 11:38
  Sure enough, it happened.
• 11:40
  But, yeah, that was when, yeah, Helmut Marko was at our...
• 11:45
  you know, a test out in Spain that year, but Scott wasn't established, but, um, but yeah, it was, uh, where was I going with that?
• 11:52
  Where were we?
• 11:53
  Well, I mean, just, just the, the, the way that you committed to it, mate, how big that was.
• 11:57
  So we were down on budget.
• 11:58
  Yeah.
• 11:59
  And the amount of times we were getting in and, you know, I'd get a rock up at Sneddon or Alton Park and,
• 12:04
  Couldn't get in the car.
• 12:05
  You know, money hadn't gone through and dad's been up all night trying to beg, borrow and steal, you know, to the point where we, you know, got underway in F3.
• 12:13
  We had some very loyal friends of my dad's that really put their necks on the line in the infancy.
• 12:19
  But then we got our sort of investment scheme up and, not scheme, it sounds wrong, doesn't it?
• 12:24
  Program.
• 12:25
  Program, up and running.
• 12:26
  Because I'd actually, you know, very early in pre-season testing, I'd top pre-season testing and...
• 12:31
  So I got some good media on side.
• 12:33
  I didn't really know what I was doing, but I was very fast, very quick in a Formula 3.
• 12:37
  But it was a very sporadic year.
• 12:39
  Then we were sort of nowhere for a few rounds and came out in the third round of the series and dominated.
• 12:45
  So we got some good momentum, but we really didn't have any funding.
• 12:48
  came back to Australia and that's when we had, uh, you did regularly, mate, I think, didn't you?
• 12:52
  You jetted backwards and forwards.
• 12:53
  That's right.
• 12:53
  I remember coming back in May and we were an ambassador with the Grand Prix Corp, but we had a big fundraising, um, night where we launched this investment program where people could buy shares in my career.
• 13:04
  And, um, you know, I mean, Peter Brock was there.
• 13:06
  Actually, Shane Warren was on his band that year, but his brother Jason had,
• 13:10
  got Shane a part of it to try and get him some positive publicity.
• 13:13
  And I remember sitting with him doing a thing with the Herald Sun.
• 13:16
  But that night, I mean, we had Sammy Newman, Brockie, Shane speaking, and just all the who's who are businessmen and media in Melbourne trying to generate interest and money and stuff.
• 13:27
  did we do it the right way?
• 13:28
  I don't think there was such thing as a right way.
• 13:31
  But we tried our best.
• 13:32
  We tried our utmost.
• 13:34
  And, yeah, we had a great time, finished the end of that 03, changed teams to Alain Menuh Motorsport because I'd had a bit of a tough run with Alan Docky in the mid-year.
• 13:45
  There's no point throwing good money after bad.
• 13:47
  Was it me?
• 13:48
  Was it the car?
• 13:49
  We needed to know.
• 13:50
  And straight to topping two official tests at Brands Hatch, pole position the last round.
• 13:55
  Finished second.
• 13:56
  Pico Jr. got me at the start.
• 13:57
  But on the GP circuit, wow.
• 13:59
  F3 car around Brands GP.
• 14:02
  Memories now that I think back, you know, through Hawthorne's Dingledell.
• 14:05
  I mean, just being on pole, I was really on top of my game then.
• 14:10
  And then that led to...
• 14:12
  the official tests with high tech, which was the, the Renault young driver program.
• 14:16
  And really this was the highlight of my career, but the low light because we had no more funding.
• 14:22
  Um, but I was ready to go and, you know, I topped, topped those two official days, but they weren't just any British days.
• 14:28
  They were two weeks for Macau.
• 14:30
  So you had Rosberg come out from Europe.
• 14:33
  He was with Carl and Lewis was in British F3 by now.
• 14:35
  He'd won the Renault series.
• 14:37
  Um, Kibitz was there, all the British guys, you,
• 14:40
  PK and power was there.
• 14:41
  I mean, everyone.
• 14:43
  And I topped the days.
• 14:44
  Degrassi was in the car next to me and really was in a sweet spot with a British F3 car at that point, an F3 car.
• 14:51
  But we didn't get in that program, which was going to obviously underwrite the funds moving forwards.
• 14:55
  So.
• 14:56
  I think you told me too, in the way that all kind of shook out in the end, and you still got a good relationship with him to this day.
• 15:02
  I think didn't, was Mark Webber partly involved in actually
• 15:06
  letting you know ultimately what they decided.
• 15:08
  You were clinging and clearly felt like you had the right stuff for them, but they went a different direction, mate, didn't they?
• 15:15
  Yeah, yeah.
• 15:15
  I mean, I see this through my eyes.
• 15:18
  I'm actually really close with Mark now, more on a mate front, which is great.
• 15:22
  But then you imagine me, just bright-eyed kid, and he's in Formula 1.
• 15:26
  I mean, he's fighting his own battles.
• 15:28
  He's only two years into Formula 1 at this stage, which I hold him even in high regard.
• 15:34
  Now that I think he was actually just a young bloke.
• 15:36
  Yes.
• 15:36
  Now that I'm 40, he was 20s.
• 15:38
  Jaguar, 03, first year.
• 15:41
  But I just never forget, we lived a few miles apart.
• 15:44
  We'd often do dinner.
• 15:46
  Nice.
• 15:46
  You know, once a month at this little restaurant in...
• 15:51
  Merslow or Winslow.
• 15:52
  Okay.
• 15:53
  He'll probably, he'll know.
• 15:54
  It definitely was that.
• 15:55
  Yeah.
• 15:56
  But I mean, I just, yeah, I just, he'd always go out of his way to invite me to dinner and then invite me to his house.
• 16:01
  Let's go running.
• 16:01
  He'd show me up in training.
• 16:03
  It was, I think it was a kind of a sly.
• 16:05
  And I think back now, cause I thought I was fit and I was not fit.
• 16:08
  Okay.
• 16:08
  I mean, I trained.
• 16:10
  But Mark, you're like, okay, come on, mate, we're going for a 12K run.
• 16:12
  And I remember, I can't let Mark Webber down.
• 16:15
  And he's just there waiting.
• 16:16
  I remember him once, you know, I'm just keeping up and he's in the middle of this dirt driveway in the bush doing push-ups waiting for me.
• 16:22
  And I'm like, yeah, yeah, no worries, 12K.
• 16:24
  And I just remember this humiliating.
• 16:25
  I think it was just a...
• 16:27
  a sly sort of, this is what it takes.
• 16:29
  It's what it takes, mate, you know, and so he rubbed off on me in a great way all the time to the point where I remember I came home from an F3 ace and it was the day after the Italian Grand Prix, Monday morning.
• 16:41
  He'd ring me to check on
• 16:42
  my weekend oh nice and now i think back on how did you have capacity to do that worry about young aussies your window into the person the show's who mark is um and and then the invite me to silverstone i just remember jaguar in the middle of the garage he's testing in and out just standing there next to his cockpit yeah i'm just amazing stuff um but yes he was helping me
• 17:05
  Um, but then we, we had some management and I thought we had a pretty good link, but you learn, live and learn.
• 17:12
  And not that Mark and Anne wanted to manage me.
• 17:15
  There might've been an opportunity, but obviously then we'll power, um, inevitably came over and then he ended up getting in with Mark and Anne.
• 17:23
  And, um, yeah,
• 17:25
  And then it quickly, I felt like there was a divide.
• 17:28
  Not Mark, he was always personally great.
• 17:30
  But things got fickle and I understand what it takes.
• 17:32
  I remember being at F1 Paddock in 04, doing a Minardi PR thing because we had the test.
• 17:40
  Something was said to me that...
• 17:42
  You know, don't use Mark's name, you know.
• 17:47
  I noticed then that it was, yeah, it really upset me, but it was one of those divides.
• 17:54
  Like we're not at war now, but we're backing this guy and this is what it takes.
• 17:58
  And this might be how I saw it.
• 18:01
  But very quickly, yeah, it was, you know, they were looking after someone else and not me.
• 18:05
  And I'll probably have a huge regret on not, you know,
• 18:09
  Maybe not getting involved there.
• 18:11
  But, yeah, anyway, it's one of those things.
• 18:12
  I don't know how it could have played out.
• 18:13
  But, you know, we did things the best we could.
• 18:15
  We snuck back over there in 04.
• 18:17
  Campbell Walker, I remember, was the phone call to just get some funds to get us started.
• 18:21
  Had three podiums in the first four rounds in British F3.
• 18:24
  I was third in the points.
• 18:26
  But we just couldn't keep going.
• 18:28
  We were just getting further and further into a hole of debt.
• 18:31
  So we hung in there to get back for the F1 test.
• 18:34
  And there's a bit going on in this next phase with V8s.
• 18:37
  But still the F1 test, which was something else.
• 18:39
  Before we come to F1 test and supercars, one or two quick things.
• 18:43
  Firstly, Zenith moment in F3, the thing where you feel like you were just at your peak or that you're perhaps proudest of, and the moment your mate, Will Power, wanted to throttle you.
• 18:58
  Well, I suppose I won.
• 19:03
  I won very early.
• 19:05
  And I dominated.
• 19:06
  I mean, I pole, fast slap.
• 19:07
  But I didn't really know what I was doing.
• 19:09
  So I can't really say I'm much proud of that.
• 19:11
  They're a tricky thing, those F3 cars, though, aren't they, mate?
• 19:13
  They're beautiful, I think, when they're at their window.
• 19:15
  I wish an experienced Will Davison after 20 years in supercars, which I would say mechanically and process-wise with tyre management set up, I wish my experience in a young me now could go and do.
• 19:28
  Because I look at some of the stuff now and it stares me in the face of just –
• 19:32
  obvious engineering 101.
• 19:34
  Yeah, yeah.
• 19:36
  But, yeah, it's...
• 19:37
  So, yeah, amazing times early, but I wouldn't say I was...
• 19:40
  Although I dominated early, wouldn't say I was at the top of my game.
• 19:45
  By the end of the year...
• 19:47
  that brand's GP where pressure was at the highest.
• 19:51
  Like we were pretty much coming home and I had to perform.
• 19:55
  Again, mate, at a peak moment.
• 19:58
  Which is a message I probably have for young guys to this day.
• 20:01
  I mean, I don't – you know, some things I wish were different in my career.
• 20:05
  But what I do know is –
• 20:07
  the perception train and the perception wave changes very quickly in this sport.
• 20:13
  But when there's an opportunity there, you've got to strike.
• 20:16
  Yes.
• 20:17
  And you can't let it go.
• 20:18
  And I think any time I've had an opportunity to win or I've had a good car, I've grabbed it and I've performed when it matters.
• 20:27
  There might be a lot of other bad performances, but there's moments in time when you look back, one critical test, one critical moment where you've got to go whack.
• 20:37
  And I think, yeah, I was able to do that pretty well in my career when I needed to.
• 20:42
  Good stuff.
• 20:43
  Power.
• 20:43
  What happened at that time?
• 20:44
  I don't know where you were.
• 20:45
  I can't remember where you were.
• 20:47
  Was it Donington?
• 20:47
  It was Donington.
• 20:48
  It was like, I can tell you that area of the paddock and I haven't been there for 20 years.
• 20:53
  um i mean by now wills he's been over when he had no budget he'd slept on my floor um but he's got some backing he was with four tech yeah richard dutton who i saw today uh his team uh he upended things at docking i think this was 04 yeah so he was now we're at war a bit yeah um and it was a wet race it was the first race of the 04 season i think it was a wet dry
• 21:18
  I actually do remember it.
• 21:20
  Back straight, coming under that bridge at Donington, double coppice.
• 21:22
  Coming out of coppice.
• 21:24
  He got a run, I think, and I've just sort of driven him over and pushed him into the grass, I suppose.
• 21:29
  I got it.
• 21:29
  But, yeah, it's just very much everything you've seen with Will Power from a long way back, the pointing, the screaming, like, you know, probably mimicking or miming the worst words you can think of.
• 21:42
  You are effing.
• 21:44
  I'm dead, I'm going to kill you.
• 21:46
  But this is hundreds of metres away.
• 21:49
  And he sort of grabbed me and, yeah, he was like, oh, yeah, very much power.
• 21:55
  And we're kind of mates, you know.
• 21:57
  I wouldn't say confronting, but that's Will to a T. I've got some other good Will Power stories.
• 22:03
  But I love him.
• 22:03
  He's great.
• 22:04
  He quickly burns off.
• 22:05
  And it's from the right place because he feels someone's done something dirty to him or not right, although he was –
• 22:13
  I know when you catch up now, you have beautiful conversations.
• 22:16
  Oh, we always have.
• 22:16
  Even that moment didn't carry on.
• 22:18
  That didn't last.
• 22:19
  I mean, the end of 03, that round at Menus where I polled, Will was in the four-tech car.
• 22:26
  So he'd started the year in a Rolt, down the back of the field.
• 22:29
  Okay.
• 22:30
  The last four or five rounds, he'd got in a four-tech car and started coming up top six, top seven around me.
• 22:38
  And then Brands, he had a big accident in the back section and cracked his helmet.
• 22:43
  And there's a wonderful photo.
• 22:45
  People forget, but I loaned him my spare helmet.
• 22:48
  So the last round of the 03 British F3 is Will Power.
• 22:51
  You'll see in a four-tech white car is a Will Davison helmet.
• 22:54
  It's like the Schumacher Coulthard in the McLaren.
• 22:57
  But, yeah, we were very good mates.
• 23:00
  And, yeah, that was just out of sort of nowhere.
• 23:02
  But Will doesn't care.
• 23:03
  No mates on the track.
• 23:04
  And he's very much like that.
• 23:06
  He separates the two hand in hand.
• 23:08
  He still does it today, you know.
• 23:10
  So you come back to Oz ultimately and with a fair bit to repay, which you sorted.
• 23:18
  But initially, I think, for the idea of a supercars thing, does it come about from an ultra passionate Oscar Fiorinotto and team dynamic?
• 23:30
  What was the first kind of foray and how did that come about?
• 23:33
  How did that start?
• 23:34
  Yeah, it was before we went back in 04.
• 23:38
  Oscar had reached out and was, you know, from, you know, really the only supercar team or
• 23:45
  Maybe Willsie was behind that, I believe, a lot as well, since me and Simon were good friends.
• 23:51
  And Simon has since said, hey, I was the one pushing because he'd done British Formula 3.
• 23:55
  You've got to remember Simon had been down that route in the late 90s when Mark Webber was in British F3.
• 23:59
  Willsie had quite a good career in the UK and a lovely bloke.
• 24:04
  So anyway, Oscar was the point of contact and they were very much keen to get me.
• 24:11
  commit to me without even turning a wheel in a supercar Marcus had obviously just come back from British F3 yeah with Alan docking he'd done a similar route and you know everyone saw what he did when he jumped in a supercar so obviously it was a bit of the flavor of the month and so I turned it down I really want to get back in 04 like I could have jumped in probably for 04 I think okay but for
• 24:37
  going to say full time.
• 24:38
  I can't remember that, but there was definitely interest there.
• 24:40
  Okay.
• 24:40
  I just said, we'll just stay in touch.
• 24:42
  We'll just stay in touch.
• 24:42
  So obviously the first thing when I had to return home in July, August was give them a call.
• 24:47
  So I'm home.
• 24:48
  I don't know what I'm doing.
• 24:49
  Within two days, I was at Malala doing a ride day with some passengers.
• 24:53
  And again, like I said, I just, I remember sitting next to some wheels, H pattern, brake points, V shape, the Kirby used.
• 25:01
  So I just got in, picked it up really quick.
• 25:05
  and then did some laps in the middle of the day on my own, which you're not really meant to.
• 25:08
  And then like, that's like nearly as quick as we've ever gone here or a few tenths off wheels he's ever gone or talk about just maximizing opportunities.
• 25:16
  But I don't know.
• 25:18
  I loved it.
• 25:18
  I really loved it.
• 25:19
  Radically different to the F3 thing.
• 25:21
  Oh, my gosh.
• 25:22
  Yeah.
• 25:22
  Oh, and I found that out soon.
• 25:24
  You go around to different circuits and all of a sudden you realize.
• 25:26
  But whatever it is at Malala and in that car and copping Simon and just, yeah, it just all came to me very quickly.
• 25:33
  And from that moment on, they threw me into Winton two weeks later.
• 25:37
  So you tell the kids today in Super 2 that have got Super 2 for years, rookie days.
• 25:43
  I mean, they threw me out in a main game.
• 25:45
  I'd done 14 laps in a supercar.
• 25:47
  Like, imagine how out of my comfort zone I was and it was wet and I'm out there mid-season with all the scathe and Garth and Russ just shoving me out of the way.
• 25:58
  Like, I was just getting in everyone's way.
• 26:00
  But then it was wet and again, I finished the practice session in 11th or something, my first ever session.
• 26:07
  So, it was sort of...
• 26:08
  Yeah, very quick debut, and then I did the Enduros with Dynamic.
• 26:12
  Wasn't nothing to write home about, but enough where they committed and offered me a full-time seat for the 05-06 season, but I had written in there, if I make Formula 1,
• 26:22
  I'll get cleared from my contract because I was still going back in November to test the Formula 1.
• 26:28
  So I was still doing some Formula Holden tests to stay in Sharp.
• 26:32
  And that leads to a whole new story as to what happened in 05 because that never obviously eventuated.
• 26:38
  But I debuted with them at the Grand Prix in 05.
• 26:41
  Tony Longhurst bought a franchise.
• 26:43
  Yes.
• 26:44
  So I rocked up at Clipsill.
• 26:45
  I'd finished well at the Grand Prix.
• 26:46
  I had a sixth place finish.
• 26:48
  I hadn't tested the car.
• 26:49
  I hadn't driven it since Bathurst.
• 26:51
  I'd since driven Formula One.
• 26:52
  So five months have gone.
• 26:53
  You don't get a test day.
• 26:55
  Straight in.
• 26:56
  And qualified 12th or 13th and finished sixth in this wet dry race.
• 27:02
  and then went to Adelaide and Longhurst needed me to sign a contract to drive his car and I didn't want to sign that, but obviously Willsy owns the team.
• 27:12
  And you had a lot of time with something with what you already had.
• 27:14
  So I was left, yeah, without the drive, but I was contracted to get the drive.
• 27:18
  So that left me on the sidelines, got me up to DJR for the Enduros the next morning after the
• 27:25
  He had nothing to do all year.
• 27:26
  Did A1 GP, which was great.
• 27:29
  But it was in no man's land.
• 27:30
  At that point in my career, it was the only time I felt like I was in no man's land a bit.
• 27:34
  No one would take my calls.
• 27:35
  I was thinking, oh, this is a bit of a worry.
• 27:38
  Until one pivotal moment at a Super 2 race, which DJI ran me out at QR, where I won.
• 27:43
  And the floodgates opened again, the perception train.
• 27:46
  I did nothing different from the Thursday at Queensland Raceway to the Sunday, put in a good performance, and the world changed for me that next week.
• 27:52
  Everything.
• 27:53
  Stone Brothers were on the phone and all sorts, mate, from what I can gather.
• 27:57
  One little kind of footnote in all of that is that the F1 test with Minardi is kind of bubbling away, I think, isn't it, mate?
• 28:06
  I mean, tell me about that.
• 28:08
  You've driven the two-seater on a number of occasions at Albert Park since then to go and do that.
• 28:13
  What the heck was that like?
• 28:15
  Yeah, just a culmination of just everything you dreamed of as a kid, although feeling quite ready.
• 28:23
  Just...
• 28:25
  Yeah, just, I mean, I'd spent a few days in Fanzar and with the engineer, and then there's a four-day test.
• 28:32
  So it was done properly.
• 28:34
  They really did it well for us, although Will and I were only doing half a day each.
• 28:38
  Mizano, wasn't it?
• 28:39
  Mizano.
• 28:40
  They had a four-day test, and they had a lot of their current Grand Prix drivers, a bunch of other young guys doing multiple days, like Pastor Maldonado, that one.
• 28:50
  Christian Albers, Patrick Friesarca, who actually ultimately ended up in the Grand Prix seats the next year.
• 28:55
  And Will and I had one day.
• 28:58
  The number was big, mate, that they wanted if you were to come and have a full-time gig.
• 29:01
  I think relatively speaking, wasn't it?
• 29:03
  Yeah.
• 29:04
  I mean, it never really...
• 29:05
  It briefly got to that.
• 29:06
  But the day went really, really well.
• 29:09
  I remember just sitting in that car.
• 29:13
  And there's another great story where Will was meant to be in the morning.
• 29:16
  Yeah.
• 29:17
  Power.
• 29:18
  Power.
• 29:18
  So I was very relaxed arriving.
• 29:20
  I had to chat to him about this one day, but his girlfriend at the time worked for Anne Neal and Mark Kerry.
• 29:27
  And I had no idea.
• 29:28
  Actually, I was fine, but he'd been there testing in an F3000 the week before.
• 29:33
  I'd never seen the track.
• 29:35
  He was really taking it serious.
• 29:36
  I mean, I was.
• 29:37
  Yeah.
• 29:38
  But I've got it on video.
• 29:40
  Okay.
• 29:41
  Because my mate was there filming.
• 29:42
  Yeah.
• 29:43
  So I'm very relaxed.
• 29:44
  Rock up at 8 a.m.
• 29:45
  I'm not in the car till 1, so I'm not panicking yet.
• 29:47
  Yeah.
• 29:48
  Roll in and I just get a tap on the shoulder.
• 29:52
  Davison, like, get in the motorhome like you're in the car in 30 minutes.
• 29:56
  And I've got on camera the mechanics of the car.
• 29:58
  They're going...
• 30:00
  What?
• 30:00
  Like, Davison?
• 30:01
  Davison?
• 30:02
  How?
• 30:02
  How?
• 30:03
  Because they were shocked because the belts are different, the seats, the sticker on the name.
• 30:06
  Yeah, right, right.
• 30:07
  Everything had to – and I'm like, what?
• 30:08
  I thought – they're like –
• 30:11
  Pau was having a meltdown because it was icy cold, freezing.
• 30:14
  I think he thought it was going to be slippery.
• 30:16
  I'll get on lunch and be better.
• 30:17
  I'm going to ask you one day.
• 30:18
  I don't care.
• 30:18
  I love it about him.
• 30:19
  I love it about him.
• 30:21
  And I didn't have a leg to stand on.
• 30:24
  But I actually think it worked well because I know I got on it very quick.
• 30:28
  There was nothing wrong with the track conditions.
• 30:30
  And I actually just – one of my strengths, probably in my career, I always did –
• 30:34
  get up to speed very fast.
• 30:37
  And I really picked it up.
• 30:39
  We had a datum lap of a 13 from Tiago Montero.
• 30:41
  And my head's like, oh, I'll be doing an 18.
• 30:44
  Like, I'm not going to... You hear the noise the day before watching it, the scream.
• 30:48
  I'm like, oh, that thing looks too fast.
• 30:50
  Sitting in it, just that moment, the moment before I left, I just never forget it, the big Bridgestones and all the setup.
• 30:58
  It's just that moment.
• 30:59
  I'll never forget sitting there going, this is it, like this is it, and then rolling down the lane.
• 31:05
  What did it feel like?
• 31:05
  What did it feel like?
• 31:06
  Oh, I mean, just like a race car until you open it up, until it was just like on another stratosphere.
• 31:15
  What was the horsepower back then?
• 31:16
  I'm trying to remember, like 900 plus.
• 31:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:19
  But just, yeah, just an incredible feeling.
• 31:23
  Just the first time you, yeah, just an installation lap.
• 31:27
  Just full throttle up the back straight to say, I'll just get all these shift lights up.
• 31:30
  And you're like, bang, give a gear.
• 31:31
  And you haven't even given a shift light yet.
• 31:32
  Far out.
• 31:33
  Third to fourth, right?
• 31:35
  Oh, I get it all the way.
• 31:37
  You just can't explain it to people.
• 31:39
  And then just the braking force.
• 31:41
  And then I'd stop, do an install, bang, two laps.
• 31:44
  And I just straight away, just straight away hard in the TC, first, second.
• 31:48
  And it was just like a rocket.
• 31:49
  But I just, the cars are very...
• 31:51
  Very nice.
• 31:52
  It was very edgy, that Minardi, but still very easy to drive, very user-friendly.
• 31:56
  But you're just, like, so fast.
• 31:58
  Your brain can't comprehend it, but it does everything so well.
• 32:01
  It plucks gears well, the electronics, the braking force, like it stops for you.
• 32:06
  Yeah, it's something I wish everyone could actually experience because it's – particularly when I felt on top of it, although my neck wasn't on top of it.
• 32:13
  Yeah.
• 32:13
  I was on top of it.
• 32:14
  Top of it.
• 32:14
  And I got up to speed, like, really quick.
• 32:17
  Yeah.
• 32:17
  And actually, I remember the engineer said, I don't think we've ever, in like my second run, I remember he showed me the brake graph and he said, this is your third run and you've done 5.1 G at the end of the back straight.
• 32:28
  And they said, we rarely see that so quick.
• 32:31
  And there was still another 20 metres or so, which I got in my last two tyre runs, new tyre runs.
• 32:35
  But I got to a very good brake point very quick and it was just like insane.
• 32:40
  Yeah.
• 32:41
  So good, mate.
• 32:42
  Yeah, it was really cool.
• 32:44
  Again, etched in your memory, which I think is, yeah.
• 32:47
  Listen, Frosty, my last new tyre run, I was at the – you've got autosported now, quickest time of the week, 11.1 by Christian Albers.
• 32:56
  I think Will and I did 11.5 or something.
• 32:59
  Well played.
• 32:59
  But my last run, which – because I was actually a bit up on power in all the runs.
• 33:04
  We did the identical time in the end.
• 33:06
  But my last run –
• 33:08
  the second last corner I just went so deep this run I was so committed my head was flopping around everywhere like a rag doll like I was just went to like 60 metres at the end of the back straight and I was just hanging on just in the traction control it's like and then the second last I just went in so deep and I just I've still got I can still see it just big inside lock Bridgestone ran past the corner I'm just hard in the gas in the TC and
• 33:34
  Like I'm in the marbles.
• 33:35
  And I'm like, no.
• 33:36
  I've thrown away.
• 33:38
  And like I did the 11.5.
• 33:39
  And they're like, great job, great job, very good time.
• 33:42
  And I dumped like four or five tenths.
• 33:44
  And it was like 11.1 was the time of the week.
• 33:47
  And he'd done 200 laps, Albers.
• 33:49
  And I'm like, we did 30, 20, 30 laps.
• 33:53
  So, yeah, I always kick myself because it actually could have been exceptionally good.
• 33:58
  We still did very well.
• 34:00
  But I felt too good because we were never really going to get the seat.
• 34:04
  I mean, the engineers were actually pushing for us.
• 34:06
  Well, we'd love you to, I just remember, I'd love you to drive here next year.
• 34:09
  And will we see you?
• 34:10
  And so you sort of feel like, oh, my God, I'm going to be there.
• 34:13
  The PR people, the back of my head, I'm like,
• 34:16
  This ain't happening.
• 34:17
  Yeah.
• 34:18
  And we could have for like half the budget the others paid, maybe $6 million.
• 34:22
  Yeah.
• 34:23
  She had a brief.
• 34:23
  That's bittersweet, mate, isn't it?
• 34:25
  That's bittersweet.
• 34:26
  It really was.
• 34:27
  Yeah, anyway.
• 34:28
  Good times.
• 34:40
  Let's come to DJR.
• 34:42
  You, I think, have a fun exchange with Stevie Johnson in a nightclub.
• 34:48
  What are you doing for the Enduros?
• 34:49
  Off you go.
• 34:50
  Then that leads to a Super 2 drive that you've talked about.
• 34:54
  Let's come back to what you said there a moment ago.
• 34:56
  I mean, I alluded to Stone Brothers.
• 34:57
  That was just one of many that I think were on the phone, mate, in the wake of that.
• 35:01
  Everyone kind of realised...
• 35:02
  What Ambrose had done had obviously, among others, had changed a bit of thinking.
• 35:06
  And was that what was going on with you here?
• 35:08
  Like, we need to invest in a young person and maybe get him on.
• 35:11
  Yeah, I think obviously JC was coming back.
• 35:13
  He'd driven with HRT, the 500 in 05.
• 35:18
  Myself, I mean, Frosty had been in with Larkham.
• 35:22
  Jamie had just done GRM.
• 35:27
  He'd just done a year at Tasman and did very well.
• 35:31
  So I think there was quite a few of us amongst – I mean, I actually got offered the Tasman seat by Kevin Murphy.
• 35:38
  Oh, right.
• 35:39
  And I was – Did you have a discussion with Roland too?
• 35:43
  Yeah, so – oh, 100%.
• 35:44
  Sorry, I'm just getting to that.
• 35:47
  I was like, who am I replacing?
• 35:49
  And it was kind of they were talking to JR, Stephen Richards, and I'm like, what if there doesn't sign?
• 35:52
  I mean, because Jamie's gone great.
• 35:54
  And it was kind of like, oh, well, Jamie's – I'm like –
• 35:57
  Now you think back and going, this is so cutthroat.
• 36:00
  Okay.
• 36:01
  Like they were willing to just, and I just didn't make sense to me.
• 36:05
  And you do what you got to do.
• 36:06
  Yep.
• 36:06
  But it sat really uncomfortably for me.
• 36:08
  And I've had a few of the stories in my career where when you're hot, you know, everyone talks to you and they're going to get rid of your teammate and they talk to you very openly.
• 36:18
  Like you're the flavor of the month.
• 36:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:20
  And then I've had that to some, I won't mention names, but some really high up teammates where they're speaking to you pretty badly about them.
• 36:26
  But I'm like, so what happens when I have a couple of bad races?
• 36:30
  Like, how quick are you going to throw me to the wolves?
• 36:33
  And sure enough, it's what happens.
• 36:35
  So I very quickly learnt that early on, although you've got to go for it.
• 36:40
  But yeah, there was obviously, I flew up to 888, met with Roland.
• 36:44
  He was very much after the Enduros, wanted to chat, meet me.
• 36:48
  We'll make our decision after Bathurst.
• 36:52
  Stone Brothers were much the same I sat down with Ross and Jimmy at Oran Park 04, I remember I was there with Dynamic but I was in awe, I mean Ambrose was there, that was the Pertick, they were the championship winning organisation so that was the dream scenario really at that moment and the Tasman thing popped up and then DJR sort of after the Super 2 Conica series or what would it have been back then Noon's is going to kill me he will kill me too
• 37:20
  It had a crazy name, I think, in that year, didn't it?
• 37:22
  Yeah.
• 37:22
  Anyway, yes.
• 37:24
  Super 2, as we now know it.
• 37:25
  Yes.
• 37:25
  Oh, well.
• 37:27
  Don't beat yourself up on that one.
• 37:29
  Crikey, there's no point on that.
• 37:30
  Anyway, it doesn't matter.
• 37:32
  So, yeah, that weekend had a great run and things heated up real quick.
• 37:37
  And I got DJR then...
• 37:41
  Yeah, made a big move to put a really good offer to me for three years.
• 37:46
  Again, they had a very established legend, Glenn Seaton, with a contract.
• 37:51
  Things feel a bit...
• 37:52
  Awkward.
• 37:54
  Yeah, feel a bit close to home 20 years later for me now.
• 37:58
  Particularly when I'm at Run Group with Aaron Seaton.
• 38:01
  We talk about it, I'm like, wow.
• 38:02
  How's that for a full circle life moment?
• 38:06
  But, yeah, that was great, and that was going to be a right now moment deal.
• 38:13
  And I honestly didn't back myself enough to wait till after Bathurst.
• 38:18
  I'm like, what if I put it in the fence?
• 38:20
  What if I'm on the momentum train?
• 38:23
  I've got to grab this.
• 38:23
  The pressure's not great.
• 38:24
  They haven't done much for a few years.
• 38:27
  This is probably a good scenario for me.
• 38:29
  I remember rolling up the Sandown 500, and I believe –
• 38:33
  Roland offered me the seat.
• 38:38
  He met my dad and said, let's do it.
• 38:42
  Okay.
• 38:42
  I don't know the exact story, but I remember that.
• 38:46
  Because we hadn't actually put ink to paper.
• 38:50
  but we'd done a handshake.
• 38:51
  We're a long way down the route.
• 38:54
  Stuck by that.
• 38:54
  Stuck by it.
• 38:55
  And I don't have regrets.
• 38:56
  Obviously, we've seen what Jamie's done.
• 38:58
  I think a few years into my career, I think I could have done wonderful things at that team, but I'm not going to sit there and go, oh, if I made that decision, I'd...
• 39:06
  have seven championships like Jamie Winkup.
• 39:08
  A lot of people would just think that, you know, the tall poppy, a lot of young drivers think, poor me, I didn't get that run if I had that car.
• 39:16
  It's not true.
• 39:17
  There's a lot that comes to it.
• 39:18
  There's a lot of self-critiquing.
• 39:19
  There's a lot of lesson learning.
• 39:21
  There's a lot of looking yourself in the mirror.
• 39:22
  There's a lot of failure in yourself that you've got to analyse and make sure you're your own hardest taskmaster.
• 39:34
  to constantly better yourself.
• 39:36
  And I think it's like we touched on earlier, it's a fine line in this sport to letting your guard down and looking like you're vulnerable and being real and being hard on yourself and being real to make sure you constantly learn and better yourself.
• 39:48
  So I stuck by the I want to learn in a lower pressure scenario.
• 39:52
  I want to make sure when I get that call up with a big team, I'm ready to strike.
• 39:57
  And three years at DJR, by year two, three, we got...
• 40:01
  car better I won my first couple of races in 08 fifth in the championship and it was a hard decision to leave but a Holden racing team and bang so you know runner up in year one and was ready to take on a Garth Tander as a teammate I think if I went in as a rookie like I was in 06 next to Craig Lowndes I think I would have been eaten alive really well I think it would have been quick on my day um but yeah I wasn't ready I made so many mistakes in 06 but didn't matter so much because DJI sort of weren't
• 40:30
  in a great place yet.
• 40:31
  Jamie had come off Tasman two seasons.
• 40:35
  So he won on debut at Clipsal.
• 40:37
  I wouldn't have done that.
• 40:38
  He was driving so well at the end of 05.
• 40:40
  He was firmly dialed in to V8 supercar racing.
• 40:44
  So he jumped in that triple eight and although he was only maybe 10th in that first championship, he was still pretty on it.
• 40:50
  You choose your words the way you want to here.
• 40:53
  Which DJR chapter do you love the most and why?
• 41:00
  I would say two polar opposite chapters.
• 41:04
  That's a good answer.
• 41:05
  Yeah.
• 41:05
  The first one was more family-orientated.
• 41:09
  It was the last of DJR built BHAG chassis shell.
• 41:14
  They had some real tough financial times, but I grew with them through 07 and 08 and the relationship with Jim Beam.
• 41:22
  Adrian came on board.
• 41:24
  Scotty Sinclair.
• 41:25
  Mark Wolfrey numbers.
• 41:29
  and Stevie J, the Johnson family.
• 41:31
  To be honest, that podium was Steve in 07 at Bathurst, which was in a very tough time for the family and the team.
• 41:38
  And then to 08 really come out of my skin.
• 41:40
  Adrian had come on board.
• 41:41
  We'd got some triple-eight support, still a very old chassis, but some uprights and shocks and bits and bobs and sent the car to a wind tunnel.
• 41:49
  So to then take those steps together with the team, um...
• 41:53
  And yeah, it was, I was, I just, only time in my career, I still say to this day, I felt like I was myself.
• 42:00
  Like I'd go in every day and I could never get back to who I was then.
• 42:04
  I don't know if the sport damaged me or made me put my shield up.
• 42:09
  I've just never felt like I've been able to be myself since that era.
• 42:13
  I'm glad you cherished that, mate.
• 42:14
  Just drive freely.
• 42:16
  I didn't overthink anything.
• 42:17
  I mean, data is more paramount in racing these days and everyone's got better.
• 42:22
  I think I've got better.
• 42:23
  Okay.
• 42:24
  But as a driver, I think I would be better with less data, less information, more freestyle.
• 42:29
  Because the more I've thought and had data to analyse, it sort of goes against my grain a little bit.
• 42:36
  But I was so free then.
• 42:38
  I did not think about anything.
• 42:41
  Pure.
• 42:41
  I was very pure.
• 42:42
  And I think I was driving so well in that 2008, which got me into the 09 HRT.
• 42:48
  And I was much the same that year, but things got very serious to bigger teams.
• 42:52
  Yeah.
• 42:53
  The last iteration of DJR, post-Penski, team was incredible.
• 42:57
  Like when I came in, those Gen 2 Penski cars, the systems in the team.
• 43:03
  Like when I got there, all ownership was out the window.
• 43:06
  So it was running on autopilot.
• 43:08
  Yep.
• 43:09
  But it was still some incredible people there.
• 43:11
  With the Penski flavor or DNA in it.
• 43:13
  Yeah, and I just got there.
• 43:14
  I'm like, wow.
• 43:15
  Like the workshop, the methodical nature of everyone had their job.
• 43:18
  Everyone knew what they were doing.
• 43:20
  It was, and, you know, by then, Penske had gone, but it sort of, it was still incredible.
• 43:26
  And we started, team started losing its way a bit, but we still had the core engineering group, mechanics, the people, and the cars that were engineered.
• 43:34
  So through 2022, that car's the best supercar I've ever driven.
• 43:39
  Eight poles or those lap records.
• 43:41
  I feel totally underappreciated for what we did that year and even Anton and I, what we both did at times because, you know, things have changed a lot from Penske.
• 43:49
  Like, it was a different kettle of fish, but still with the core wonderful staff, still the same cars, still doing the basic preparation and engineering group to make those cars wonderful like they were.
• 44:02
  Like, they were freaking awesome.
• 44:04
  So on that element, I feel like that was awesome.
• 44:06
  Totally opposite to the other era at DJR.
• 44:09
  but felt like I did some great things, but was very underappreciated.
• 44:13
  A thought on HRT.
• 44:15
  Rob Crawford comes knocking.
• 44:18
  Scaifey is going to – you're going to replace Scaifey, basically.
• 44:24
  Year one for you there, lots of great positives in that.
• 44:28
  There were times where year two was really tough, mate, wasn't it?
• 44:33
  In 2009?
• 44:33
  Yeah, with the whole racing team, yeah.
• 44:36
  Oh, yeah.
• 44:36
  I mean, that was –
• 44:39
  That was phenomenal.
• 44:40
  Like, when – I remember when that phone call came with Craig Wilson and Rob Crawford to go and meet at this pub, this hotel, and I just kept having to ask, like, to replace Mark Scaife.
• 44:52
  Scaife.
• 44:52
  Like, I've been through – no, we've come home from Europe with no money, signed at Team Dynamic, which, you know, screwed because they had no money.
• 45:01
  Yep.
• 45:01
  DJR nearly on two, three occasions, you know, they'd nearly shut down.
• 45:06
  I was in conversations with Stone Brothers for 07 –
• 45:09
  Jim Beam actually came in and paid me extra.
• 45:12
  Wow.
• 45:12
  Because otherwise I would have been able to get out of my contract.
• 45:14
  Not that I wanted to, but I was led to believe the team wasn't going to continue.
• 45:18
  Okay.
• 45:18
  So there was a lot going on in that 06, 07 where I could have ended up at Stone Brothers.
• 45:23
  Um, but Jim Beam, you know, were amazing.
• 45:25
  They were so fun.
• 45:27
  They were great people.
• 45:28
  You kept them too, mate.
• 45:28
  They stayed with you for a lot of stuff, didn't they?
• 45:30
  Yeah, personally.
• 45:30
  Yeah, yeah.
• 45:30
  Hilton Racing Team.
• 45:31
  So that, you know, that was the survival of the team.
• 45:33
  Charlie bought in 08.
• 45:35
  You know, the team was in a great place.
• 45:36
  Um,
• 45:37
  But 09, you know, finally I'm like, we're finally in a good place at DJR.
• 45:43
  Like everything's great.
• 45:46
  But how do I turn?
• 45:48
  Like I'm like, you're holding a race to the team.
• 45:50
  Like you can't.
• 45:51
  That's it.
• 45:52
  You've made it in my mind.
• 45:53
  Not made it, but they're not going to go bankrupt next year.
• 45:56
  You know what I mean?
• 45:57
  Like it was – and everything I'd been through, I just couldn't say no.
• 46:01
  It was actually really hard because I'm like, DJR, I got two full-spec triple-8 FGs,
• 46:07
  coming, like full chassis.
• 46:09
  I'm at one with this team.
• 46:10
  And Courtney won a championship.
• 46:12
  I think I probably would have too if I stayed.
• 46:14
  Oh, really, I was in great form with that team.
• 46:17
  But I always knew it was going to be short term.
• 46:19
  Sure enough, what happened at the end of 10?
• 46:21
  Yes.
• 46:22
  Everything at the team sort of went a bit pear-shaped again.
• 46:26
  And I knew HRT was...
• 46:27
  in my eyes was a long-term prospect and oh no, I still have no regrets, you know, Phillip Island, 500 victory, Bathurst, 1000, Barry Sheen medal runner up in the championship 2010, the worst year of my career, but learned the most lessons ever through those tough times.
• 46:43
  Uh, very political, large organization made a scapegoat, like really, which is, wasn't prepared for it mentally, how to deal with that and how quick it turned on me.
• 46:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:54
  And so, yeah, I look at those lessons as actually everything happens for a reason.
• 47:00
  I don't sit there going, oh, I should have stayed at DJI.
• 47:02
  I would have won the championship.
• 47:03
  Or, you know, I went to FPR and that was, you know, I could have stayed at HRT.
• 47:08
  I had a one-year offer to stay, but I had a three-year offer at FPR.
• 47:11
  Yep.
• 47:11
  And they were like, they believed in me.
• 47:13
  I mean, that was a lot more money to go to FPR.
• 47:16
  And I still would have stayed at HRT if they just offered me two years.
• 47:19
  I thought they were going the wrong way as a team.
• 47:21
  Yep.
• 47:22
  with the cars in 2010.
• 47:23
  Yep.
• 47:24
  FPR were on the right path with Campbell Little.
• 47:26
  They were battling Triple Eight, you know, Frosty and Jamie.
• 47:30
  Thank gosh I made that decision.
• 47:32
  But I still went into that last meeting.
• 47:33
  I said, it's two years, I'm not staying.
• 47:38
  But I thought they were going to...
• 47:41
  adjust the one year to a two year.
• 47:43
  I went into the meeting.
• 47:44
  I'll never forget it.
• 47:45
  And they said, no, we're not budging.
• 47:48
  So I was like, decision made.
• 47:49
  I'm going to FPR.
• 47:50
  A lot more money.
• 47:52
  A lot better race car.
• 47:53
  And they're on a trajectory.
• 47:54
  And had probably the best three, most, yeah, three just amazing years.
• 47:58
  Grant me first in FPR.
• 48:00
  We're on a great trajectory.
• 48:02
  It was probably at the peak of my powers in 2012, trading post-Falcon.
• 48:06
  Epic battles with Jamie and stuff.
• 48:07
  Yeah, just won a lot of eight races, 18 podiums.
• 48:10
  Yeah, threw away a lot of great wins.
• 48:12
  But, you know, it was really, really memorable years, 11, 12, and 13, which got my confidence back and was the first step to continue to believe in yourself because 2010 just destroyed me.
• 48:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 48:24
  And then, bang, you know, pole second race back with FPR.
• 48:27
  And it was just some real lessons I learned out of that whole ordeal, which I carried through the rest of my career.
• 48:32
  Great stuff.
• 48:33
  I want to – I'm a huge believer in crediting.
• 48:36
  And you told Noon, so I would encourage people to go to his podcast and listen to it.
• 48:40
  about the fact that I think it was year one at HRT, you basically committed your salary, your contracted earnings, to going towards paying back all the debt from overseas, coming to an arrangement there, full credit to you.
• 48:53
  I think you basically lived off personal sponsors that year.
• 48:56
  Amazing.
• 48:56
  That's a story to listen to in Noons' podcast.
• 48:59
  I love what you just said about the framing around the FPR chapter.
• 49:05
  But you've talked fondly in this conversation about a couple of single car teams that you've been with and some of the moments where, let's call it your fight backs, your against the odds, your whatever you want to call it, performances.
• 49:18
  And in a very, very small Queensland-based team with John O'Webb, you win another Bathurst mate.
• 49:24
  What was that day like?
• 49:26
  And, you know, in the midst of some of these other operations that you've driven for and raced for and you do it.
• 49:32
  Yeah, I wish I was spoken about a little more.
• 49:34
  Because, yeah, it's...
• 49:39
  It's sort of one of those things that doesn't happen very often.
• 49:42
  I mean, I always thought it should.
• 49:43
  I mean, there's no reason you can't.
• 49:46
  And even that day, though, when I was in the battle all day, you know, I had Shane behind me.
• 49:51
  And now I know there was things why I ran out of fuel across the finish line with a KRE engine and he didn't, you know, which I found out the next year.
• 49:58
  You know, that little tricky maps at 70% throttle.
• 50:02
  Then they had special lights set up that basically when you're in a slipstream
• 50:06
  instead of the lift and coast, once you get that momentum up to about 260, 270k an hour, and once you get the throttle out to about 60%, it goes into a really lean map.
• 50:16
  and it's monster fuel save.
• 50:18
  Oh, wow.
• 50:19
  And they had a lot of straight line officials.
• 50:20
  There's just a lot of little things you're up against in the pit lane to beat those monsters on the big day.
• 50:25
  There's not one magical thing.
• 50:27
  There's just a lot of little things.
• 50:29
  So obviously a few things worked out our way that day, but that was magical.
• 50:35
  That was magical.
• 50:37
  Six people in that thing.
• 50:37
  Six, seven people.
• 50:38
  To still see some of them today, that I think probably got more appreciation for what I did that day than a lot of the... A lot of the...
• 50:46
  You know, the higher end people in our sport, the people that were working with me that day and my engineer, Jeff Slater, and you've forever got that bond, a little team to achieve that together.
• 50:54
  Yep.
• 50:57
  Yeah, so that was magical.
• 50:59
  We had actually a pretty good year in 2016 and I'd come from Erebus where, again, 2015, I think I probably was driving...
• 51:06
  some of the best races of my career.
• 51:07
  I'm in a Merc.
• 51:08
  I remember some of the top fives I had passing, Triple A, Jamie.
• 51:12
  A lot of them aren't wins, but I had like a one in Perth that year.
• 51:15
  Yeah, I knew I was driving well.
• 51:18
  These are things.
• 51:19
  I think I was 14th in the championship.
• 51:20
  No one will ever know.
• 51:21
  But I know I was sort of driving very well.
• 51:24
  I vividly remember Perth, mate.
• 51:25
  I remember it.
• 51:26
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:27
  Yes, and then it led to Techno, and obviously they just had Shane who...
• 51:31
  you know, being pretty stellar in that six car, but things changed a bit as well for 16 financially and things were getting a bit tougher at, uh, but we still had a good core group and, uh, at times I had a magical triple eight car, uh, one, two, three with Shane and Jamie.
• 51:46
  There were many times, um, where I, at Tassie, you know, I won and I was past Lounsey and I was coming to Shane and.
• 51:54
  with pole position, and I had big tie life on those boys.
• 51:58
  And then we had a bunch of good races early where... That was probably for someone else to say, but I gather...
• 52:05
  I was nicknamed for many years after by Couchy and Winkup, Terry.
• 52:09
  Terry Tywear.
• 52:10
  Because Roland pulled them all in a meeting, I gather, and had on a big whiteboard, Will Davison, and you need to study what the F he's doing on tyres.
• 52:20
  because he's destroying you and you imagine the engineers all sitting there going right righto mate but then everyone couching jamie's like mate we've got to watch what you're doing they were being a bit cocky but they're like old terry terry tie wear so still to this day they call me terry tie wear um but there was some yeah really good times in that year where you know i was i loved the car i mean it was the closest i ever got to triple eight but
• 52:43
  you know the times you're like oh no wonder they've just absolutely killed us for years because there were times i felt a bit of that at tasmania and i'm like oh this thing's incredible um and i wasn't triple eight we had the older equipment we had some of the older stuff but uh yeah it was a fun year to get a bit of confidence back to be honest yeah yeah a couple to finish here because time is going to beat us my dinner's going to happen inside and stuff and you've been really great with your time which i which i appreciate
• 53:07
  Firstly, you have driven all the chapters so far of Supercast, right?
• 53:13
  Is there, you know, whichever iteration that, you know, is there one that you...
• 53:20
  Yeah, I'm going to say Project Blueprint.
• 53:22
  Do you?
• 53:22
  I am.
• 53:23
  I mean, the 22 DJR Shell V-Power Mustang, absolutely sensational car.
• 53:29
  Oh, my gosh.
• 53:30
  Some of my pole laps, super soft tyres, but some of the tricky, dicky stuff we had going on with the roll bar system and just amazing sensation.
• 53:40
  But Project Blueprint, like 2012, trading post-Falcon, but even like battling Jamie for those years, the philosophies of the chassis, twin springs in the front, the rear.
• 53:52
  you know, the open damping.
• 53:54
  And then we had, in 2012, you know, we had a 50-litre water tank in the back of our car, which we learned from 888 on the Vision, that would cool the rims.
• 54:06
  So as you lift off the throttle and it would spray out the brake ducts.
• 54:13
  And I had like all these adjustments on the steering wheel that would shift, um, you know, the water brakes from cooling your front discs, the brakes weren't big enough on those cars.
• 54:22
  So if I'd get like seven laps in, I'm like brakes are good.
• 54:25
  I'm going to start winding a bit of water, dark blue seven to the rear.
• 54:29
  And it was, you get like 20, 30 degrees out of the rim or the tire.
• 54:34
  And it just helped your degradation massively.
• 54:36
  Unbelievable.
• 54:37
  But then you're like, I'm using a lot of water.
• 54:38
  Brakes are going, wind it back to the brakes for a few laps.
• 54:42
  front tires are going because the rear is that good then we actually added more water so i could then wind water to the front tires when they went away we had engine fuel maps there was a lot of adjustment back then and there was a lot of we're all doing similar lap times but in totally different way you're racing garth at hrt or whatever it was with a full point squirt mobile um triple eight flow fpr flowing mid corner the cars were so different
• 55:07
  Some had top end, engines were different.
• 55:10
  And I miss that.
• 55:11
  There was a lot of character looking in the cockpits of the cars and the exhaust notes of a GRM car to a Perkins car, to a 888, to a HRT note, FPR note, the gear shifts, the dash.
• 55:22
  It's like everyone, there was a lot of ingenuity and character that I really miss in the current generation.
• 55:28
  The Gen 3 car hasn't done a whole lot for me on that front.
• 55:32
  Yeah.
• 55:32
  I'm not going to ask you how you feel about the events of recent months.
• 55:37
  I reckon you've touched on it a little in this podcast.
• 55:41
  I reckon that's for a book one day with noons or someone when you have the benefit of time to frame it the way you want to frame it, right?
• 55:48
  Let's talk with a positive to finish.
• 55:50
  you're off to groves yeah you're gonna do the bathys 12 hour you're gonna do i mean they're in a great space and stuff at the moment you feel like you i think i've seen from this conversation like your head's in the right space for all this are you excited about that tell me about that everything happens for a reason and i yeah i won't talk about um everything because i'm also i will touch on happily that um this sport doesn't owe anyone anything um
• 56:16
  And there's no time for hard luck stories.
• 56:18
  And I get it from everyone's avenue, even when I feel hard done by and poor me.
• 56:23
  If you carry that attitude through your career, you're screwed.
• 56:26
  You can carry it for one day.
• 56:27
  If you have a bad race, poor me.
• 56:29
  You've got to press on.
• 56:30
  And everything does weirdly happen for a reason, whether that's...
• 56:33
  You know, that's not getting deep.
• 56:38
  That might be how you react without knowing it.
• 56:41
  If something kicks you down, you react in a way you wouldn't have otherwise reacted, which leads you to a new opportunity.
• 56:46
  So, yeah, there were some morally some things that have upset me a bit, but I'm cool.
• 56:50
  I appreciate certain things and decisions people like to make.
• 56:55
  And, you know, I'll use it to make me better again.
• 56:59
  I'll look at the positives of what's gone down unexpectedly for me at the moment.
• 57:05
  I've got a good memory.
• 57:06
  I remember certain things.
• 57:07
  And to me, at this stage of my career, it's a dog-eat-dog sport.
• 57:11
  So I've survived a lot.
• 57:13
  And there's no friends in the track.
• 57:15
  But, yeah, I still like to have a bit of class and hold my head high as to being an honest, good person with morals.
• 57:25
  And that goes a long way.
• 57:26
  And sometimes a motorsport doesn't get you.
• 57:29
  Doesn't get you a long way.
• 57:30
  But ultimately, it all catches up in the end.
• 57:32
  So there's a few things I've remembered have gone down.
• 57:35
  And it'll better me.
• 57:38
  And I'm excited where it's led me.
• 57:39
  And already it's...
• 57:41
  It's, yeah, led me to new pastures that are ahead this year with groves, which they seem like amazing people.
• 57:48
  I've been, honestly, the last few years keeping a close eye on what they've been doing anyway.
• 57:52
  Anton, who's a wonderful teammate, really good friend of mine, great mates with Brenton.
• 57:58
  So a few times, a few years ago, we'd have breakfast and I'd just hear the way they speak about their staff, what they were trying to create.
• 58:04
  And Anton and I talk about it a lot and it was like,
• 58:07
  I raked that.
• 58:09
  And I've been chatting to Couchy the last little bit through just Gen 3.
• 58:12
  And I'm like, I'd love to work with someone like you.
• 58:15
  You guys get it.
• 58:16
  I like what you're doing.
• 58:18
  And never thought stars would align.
• 58:20
  But so it happens their two young drivers are also people that the last 12 months I've been able to actually admire young talent, which I've never been able to do in my career.
• 58:30
  It must mean I'm letting go a bit because I'm like,
• 58:33
  I like those kids.
• 58:33
  I like who they are.
• 58:34
  I like their attitudes.
• 58:35
  I like their skills.
• 58:37
  So I think, yeah, it's good timing.
• 58:39
  And I'm excited for this next chapter.
• 58:41
  And they've got me in their GT program.
• 58:43
  And, yeah, I'm just looking forward to seeing how I grow as a person in this next phase, which I still don't know yet.
• 58:49
  But, yeah, I'm just going to embrace it.
• 58:52
  Dinner is served, mate.
• 58:53
  Thank you very, very much for this.
• 58:55
  I've enjoyed spending summer with you.
• 58:57
  You're going to get to drive.
• 58:58
  We learned today from Josie and Tony Quinn and the crew, you're going to get to drive a TA2 car, a Trans Am car at Highland.
• 59:04
  In the deep end again with your practice.
• 59:05
  It's awesome.
• 59:06
  It's going to be great that you're going to get a chance to do that.
• 59:09
  What I have greatly appreciated about this conversation is the wonderful recollection you give around your family's history in this sport.
• 59:18
  I find that fascinating.
• 59:19
  I just love that.
• 59:21
  Your vivid memory of all of those things.
• 59:23
  And the kind of, please don't mate.
• 59:26
  beat yourself up on things along the way that you may or may not have done.
• 59:30
  You're in a great phase now with your family, with what you're doing.
• 59:35
  You've done some very cool shit along the way.
• 59:37
  And you know what?
• 59:38
  You're just turning a page here, mate.
• 59:39
  It's a new chapter.
• 59:40
  Enjoy it.
• 59:40
  Thank you very much.
• 59:41
  Thanks, mate.
• 59:42
  To be honest, I know one thing I will never lose, and no one will ever know, but to be a professional driver for so long –
• 59:49
  And to have actually got myself to a level that I had for so long, I know.
• 59:53
  Like, I picture two 50K races, one, two with wing cup, no mistakes, up against every wall of the Bathurst.
• 1:00:00
  It's all in this, hundreds of them, of being at that level where even I every now and then go, you were at a good level, some of the quality laps.
• 1:00:07
  But I just picture those moments between walls and some of the things I've seen and done.
• 1:00:12
  It's awesome.
• 1:00:13
  And it's for nothing but my grandkids or my kids one day.
• 1:00:15
  And just myself, I sleep with it every night.
• 1:00:18
  So do the mistakes.
• 1:00:18
  Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  but it's a beautiful sport and it's a beautiful feeling to have driven some amazing race cars amazing teams and been able to execute always want more but i'm proud of a lot of the things i've done as well it's beautiful mate put the stories that we haven't covered here down on paper one day with noons thanks for chatting with us sorry for the blabbing cheers no it's all good it's great thank you
• 1:00:45
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 1:00:49
  Series editor and producer is Joel Harrison.
• 1:00:52
  Audio production by Link Kelly.
• 1:00:56
  If you've got a guest suggestion, get in touch with me on social media.
• 1:01:00
  The Garage, it's where a journey begins with a tank full of passion-fueled stories.