Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / What Are Boundaries and Why Parents Need Them, with Cathy Cioth

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What Are Boundaries and Why Parents Need Them, with Cathy Cioth · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Also breeding resentment, right?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's another emotion comes with it.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's so much resentment, not only with your kids, but seems like with everybody.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, that anger, to me, it overflowed to everything.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was short with everybody.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then it that was then this emotional turmoil, this war inside me with trying to present myself as everything is fine, nothing to see here.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: To what I was struggling with at home.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, I'm also guilty for throwing an electronic across the room.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to HopeStream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Brenda Zayn.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high-risk lifestyle.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly, find real hope in what might feel helpless.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're not helpless, and you're not alone anymore.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Find more resources at hopestreamcommunity.org.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friend, I hope your summer is going well.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening in real time, which is August of 2026, I'm taking a couple of weeks off from behind the mic to enjoy summer and have picked a special episode for you today because it is on a topic that I think every single one of our members struggles with in the stream community.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And probably, I'm guessing, every single podcast listener struggles with this as well.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Before I knew of the word boundaries, if you'd asked me what was feeling bad in my relationship with my son and in our home overall during our struggling years, it was the fact that I felt like I was invisible, like I was a doormat, like none of my rules were being followed.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was super frustrating because I had no way to enforce the things that I wanted my son to do or to make him do anything at all.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I had a set of rules and he was basically laughing his head off about them, which in turn made me more mad and frustrated and resentful and confused until I felt like maybe I was going crazy.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Once I started understanding boundaries, though, and how they actually have nothing at all to do with controlling how somebody else acts, everything started to turn around.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely not easy if you're in a position where you haven't been holding boundaries and then you start.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: We always warn people that things might get more uncomfortable, actually.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: They likely will get more uncomfortable before they start to feel better.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why Kathy and I decided to sit down for this episode back in 2023.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'll be good for you to hear some of our personal struggles with boundaries and how we frame them up to make them easier for people to come up with, how to communicate them, and then how to actually hold them.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because we always hear, oh, I don't have any problem thinking up what the boundary is.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting to a point where I can hold it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's the hard part.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And there is one very specific reason why we see so many parents not holding their boundaries, and it may not be what you think.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is going to be a great episode for you if you have been establishing rules or offering ultimatums or coming up with consequences, and they are just getting blown right out of the water.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you feel like you have no control over what goes on in your house, or if you feel like you're a doormat accommodating everybody else's behaviors and activities.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sound familiar?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: It sure did for Kathy and me.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you enjoyed this from the vault episode from 2023 with my partner in crime, Hopestream co-founder, and sometimes podcast co-host, Kathy Chart.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because we talk about boundaries a lot, we thought that boundaries would be a really good topic because not only are they helpful with our kids who are struggling, they're also very helpful with other people in our lives, right?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like spouses and parents and siblings.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's really true because they're great.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Our kids that are struggling is one thing, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: But when we have other family, we could almost practice.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: I hate to say that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds so awful, but really, it is really difficult to create boundaries for our kids who are struggling.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's best to start practicing with our spouses, for example.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Before we do that, what's going on with you?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening in life?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Just good.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know you had a hundredth birthday party for your father-in-law.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: I did.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: We did.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: We had my father-in-law turned 100 years old, and family all came from all over the country and from across the pond.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: We had some family come in from England and his old war buddies.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: One of them was there.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: He's a World War II vet.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: He fought for the Polish resistance.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: So it was super exciting.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: And boy, did he have a great time.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: We all had a great time, but it was just awesome to see him having just a wonderful weekend.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: We had a party and we even golfed and at Top Golf.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: And nice.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I saw you dancing.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: I danced with my father-in-law.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: It was great.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: One thing I love about him, and we always say, I wonder why he's lived so long.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: He lives a life of gratitude all the time.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: He says, I wake up in the morning and I say, Oh, thank you, God, for another day.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: And he goes to bed at night and he just asks for blessings on his families and how grateful he is to be alive.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, anyway, that started off our summer.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's been really great.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's so great.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: How about you?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on with you?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just had my son with me last week, my former troublemaker, which is so nice to be able to put the word former there.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that was amazing.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it really talks about gratitude, man.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you wake up and that 26-year-old body now is laying in the bed healthy and not hung over, not under any influence of any substance, and you're just having really meaningful time together.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: It I have to pinch myself every day.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't so special.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So special.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Six years.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that was pretty amazing.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't complain.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's the check-in.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great check-in.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: I guess we should move forward on this topic.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we could go a lot of other directions, but we won't.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So boundaries.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to start out with a question to you.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think so many parents struggle with setting and holding boundaries?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go, especially with the ones whose kids are using substances, since that's our thing.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think parents struggle with it so much?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: I can just give my own personal feelings around it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: They are hard.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Boundaries are so difficult.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And it can be confusing because you often aren't sure what a boundary is when we start wanting to set boundaries.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so we can go into really what a boundary is.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: We can give a little brief lesson on that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I just think they're really difficult.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: Personally, I had such a hard time.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: I used to call myself the marshmallow.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: I was just so soft.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: And my kids knew that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: And my husband, their dad, would be really tough.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so the harder he got on them, I would get really soft.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I was also so scared to set boundaries.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why were you scared?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: What was the scary part about it?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I was just scared that I would lose my kids that setting a boundary and saying, for example, you can't keep drugs in our home.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: What I was worried about was once I said that, they would say, fine, we're out of here, and we're never going to be home.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the reality was that's happened without me setting that boundary.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Clearly, I didn't even really have to say it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: They chose to not be around anyway.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, we did find drugs in the home.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we can talk later about that.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: One of the boundaries we set was no drugs in the home.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think you're right.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I like to ask what feels hard about it to people because I think sometimes we just say, oh, boundaries are so hard.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, what's hard about it?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: But also when I think back to my experience, I don't think I ever even knew that there was such a thing as a boundary.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't remember thinking, oh, I have weak boundaries because I didn't even know what that was.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you're listening and you're like, what are they talking about?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's normal.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think the word gets thrown around a little bit more now just because sort of mental health is a little bit more out in the open.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I had never heard the term.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like, oh yeah, I have weak boundaries.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't know that I didn't have them.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to remember when that kind of terminology came into my awareness, which everything's so fuzzy that I don't remember.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Probably when I finally got in regularly with a therapist.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the other thing that I hear people say is really hard for them about boundaries is like you said, the outcome.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's the outcome of holding a boundary that means something might happen that is going to either be emotionally painful or could be, like you said, scary, like maybe my kids aren't going to be able to be at home.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's often the natural consequence of holding a boundary that makes us avoid it because we're like, I know what's going to happen if I do this.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or also with substances, there's often emotional outbursts, right?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we always talk about with like red lights and green lights, if it's a red light situation, if they're under the influence, do not, this is not the time to communicate a boundary for sure.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes you don't know, and sometimes they're just irratically emotional anyway.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you never know if you start to communicate a boundary or you start to hold a boundary that you've previously communicated, the reaction might be unknown because they might blow up.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a huge landmine, like you just don't know.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: I was the queen of avoiding those landmines.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: I just didn't want to hear it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you're absolutely right.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that, yes, I think my fear was also based in the outburst that would happen.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting you say that you didn't know when that word just became that you realized what it was.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I should clarify that when I say that I was a marshmallow in my boundaries, I really didn't know that until after my kids had gone to treatment and having family therapy and realizing, oh boy, that's exactly what went on in my house.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, yeah, it's complex, but I will say this when you learn how to create a boundary, when you realize who they're for, and once you do it and you have a little bit of success, it feels so good.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then you want to keep doing it, you want to build on that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you're exercising this amazing muscle and it gets stronger.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And exercising it appropriately and knowing, hey, it's okay that I can pull back a little bit here, and having real conversations.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: It just seems once it's done and it's done right, things get a little calmer a little bit.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you give your definition of what boundaries are and what they're not?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll never forget when I joined the stream and you talked about being in the hula hoop.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's where your boundaries imagine this hula hoop around you.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I like to say that if I were to do my own definition, it would be my own little spot of land.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: There's green grass around it.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Your boundaries are for you.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a really beautiful white picket fence that I imagine that is around me.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just this really nice and serene area.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: And there is a gate in my picket fence.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I create a boundaries, I know that this is to protect and keep my world safe and healthy and what I want.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying that you can't come inside, I can come out, you can come in, but it is really just for you.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Your boundaries are for you.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: And what you need to be safe, what you need to feel healthy, and go from there.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's your environment.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're not trying to control what's happening outside your fence.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you're communicating, hey, here are the ways in which the gate opens.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to open the gate, that's totally cool.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Here are the ways that you can unlock it.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't want to do that, then you have to stay outside the fence.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really good visual, either the fence or the hula hoop.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to talk about a couple of different kinds of boundaries.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, like the hula hoop one, I visually think of that in my mind more when I'm thinking of emotional boundaries.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I'm thinking of a boundary with someone else, I tend to think about the fence analogy and just like, this is how you get to come into my yard.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what I see and what I experienced when I didn't have boundaries, when I didn't even know what I didn't have, but when I didn't have any boundaries, what I always felt like was a doormat.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody, not everybody, a few people in my life were trampling over all the things that I was, and I was even being very nice in requesting these things, but I felt like a doormat.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was always walking on eggshells.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just never knew when I was going to step in the wrong place and everything was going to become a mess.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of anger.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it really was boiling up, boiling and boiling, and I'm a very patient person.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it probably took a lot longer to surface than with other people.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then I would just explode.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And my poor kids, even though they were one of them in particular, was causing mayhem.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't deserve me yelling and screaming at him.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one time I just lost it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: They had been playing Xbox for six hours or something insane.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And because I was, I just let everybody walk all over me.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I finally at one point I just started yelling at them.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I went over and I like unplugged the Xbox and I think I threw it across the room.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: That is not good.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: That is not a good thing.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes people will say, I feel really mean when I hold a boundary, or I feel like that's mean.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: What is mean is yelling at your kids and throwing their Xbox across the room.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is not healthy behavior.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And not like you.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's so not like you sit there and you're thinking, what have I become?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you're wondering, like, why do I need boundaries?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can recognize some of those times in your own life where physically you feel like, oh, like, why is this happening again?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm giving in again.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying, okay.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's because we're just too tired, also.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just too tired to deal with whatever is going to come on the other side of me holding this boundary.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's real too.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you just need to go back to taking care of yourself, making sure that you're fed, watered, all the things that we need to be.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: So and also breeding resentment, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's another emotion comes with it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: There's so much resentment.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: Not only with your kids, but seems like with everybody.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: That just like you said, that anger, to me, it overflowed to everything, but just was I was short with everybody.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then it that was then this emotional turmoil, this war inside me with trying to present myself as everything is fine, nothing to see here.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: To what I was struggling with at home.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, I'm also guilty for throwing an electronic across the room.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: I've my kids are listening to this.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: I know my son's say I remember that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember when I did it and thinking, what is wrong with me?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: What has gone so bad that I have gotten to this point?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I really resonate with what you just said and the doormat.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: I remember feeling really dumb, feeling like just not my best self.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't I supposed to be the parent here?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And why do I feel like I'm being bulldozed by this kid who's in their teens or early 20s?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, why are they running the household?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: The relationships, everything.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: As we know, I mean our parental relationships, right?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: I felt again, that was that thing where I was home with them.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: My husband would come home, and here I am trying to tell them what was going on.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like one of the kids at one point.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: I just thought I lost my role completely.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: It was crazy.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's the worst feeling.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is a worst feeling.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when we get to that point where we lose it, and maybe we throw an electronic or perhaps a coffee cup.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I only know my experience, but I felt like I had snapped at some point.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: You do step into this third person, like she is crazy right now.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't stop what you're doing.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think it's important to acknowledge that because I think there's a lot of shame as a parent when you get to that point where you have let everything boil up to the point where you do lose it, you don't recognize yourself, you can't believe what you're doing or saying, but you can't stop yourself because you get into this place of, am I mentally stable?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is why.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times when people talk about boundaries, they don't talk about this.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is why you really need boundaries.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friend, if you've ever finished an episode of Hope Stream and thought, hmm, but what do I actually do when they come home tonight?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is what the stream was built for.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: The stream is a private online membership for moms who are navigating all the same difficult things you are.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like those nights when your kiddo comes home at 2 a.m.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: and you don't know what to do and things are escalating.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's where knowing about things like craft and the invitation to change become real and you start actually using it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And right now you can try it free for two weeks.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: No credit card required and no long-term commitment.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing to cancel if you decide it isn't for you.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: What you will have is full access to our special community and the women who have been or are in your exact kitchen situation.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: They've had those difficult conversations.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Even on your busiest, hardest weeks, there is something here that fits for you.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can engage as little or as much as you want, and of course, you get to show up in the way that feels best for you.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Go to hopestreamcommunity.org forward slash try to get that free two-week offer, and I will see you inside.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's get back to the show.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Really good self-care so that you don't get to that volcano point.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is not good for anybody, especially our kids, to see that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you talked a little bit about what they are and they aren't.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to add to that I think the most common thing that people think about when they think about boundaries is saying what in their mind is like, you can't do this or you can't do that.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do this, then this is gonna happen and what.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're actually thinking about our ultimatums to try to control someone else's behavior, which is 100% not a boundary.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like Kathy said, the boundary is for you.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it always starts with I.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not always about someone else.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to give some examples of boundaries that we held in our families, but I just want to call out that there are emotional boundaries that we need to have.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: It just is equally as important as boundaries with other people.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are some sort of what I'm thinking of as I don't, this is not a thing because we're not therapists.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just to reiterate, we probably should always say that at the beginning of our episode.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: I know, we really should.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: We're not.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not therapists.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: These are this is a parental sort of example, but I think of them as more attitudinal boundaries, and we'll talk about what those are.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: But to go back to the ultimatum thing, an ultimatum is you trying to control what someone else is going to do.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a boundary is you controlling what's going on around you and how you are going to respond to different inputs from the world, not just your one child.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like if Kathy was talking about her white picket fence, and I'm sure you have lovely green grass in your garden that you're thinking about.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I come into Kathy's yard and I start letting my dog like poop all over her yard and I'm tearing up her grass and I'm doing whatever, she's gonna say, um, no, that's actually not okay.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is not how we treat our lawn.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is how we treat our lawn.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you would like to come into my yard and not bring your dog and not tear up my lawn, cool.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: But if that's your plan, go to my neighbor's yard.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: I would never say that, but yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Train your dog, bring your doggy bags, yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's just a kind of a non-child related example of what we're talking about, which is here are the conditions in which I interact in my world, and I need to feel safe and healthy and sane.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're cool with those, we're in business.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not cool with those, we're gonna need to wait until we can come to an agreement on those.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean that your boundaries can't shift.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, sometimes you can adjust as long as they still work for you.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they always start with I.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I do need this or I feel this way, and therefore, this is what I'm gonna do.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So let's give just a couple of examples because I think it's always easier to hear one that's real that either worked or didn't work, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes they don't and we have to adjust.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: But do you have an example of one that you want to share that you had in your family and how that went?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we did have one.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: We used to call the drugs in our family the software, and the implements to use the drugs the hardware.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: So if you've got a kiddo that's using THC, the hardware are the bongs, the pipes, and all of that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And and the software is obviously the pot and really any drug.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that we had said was that we would not allow any software in our house.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: If we found them because we wanted to keep our house safe and healthy, and so we said if we found them, they would we would dispose of them.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the consequences also would be that you would not be able to stay the night at home that night.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: And oh boy, that was such a tough one for me, honestly.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: That was really tough.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we did that, and my son ended up staying out of the house lots of times.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it was difficult.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: I almost felt so defeated every time I would find something.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: But the first time I remember, oh gosh, and I remember my husband and I tag teaming, okay, we found something, and he'd be the one to have the conversation.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'll be honest, most of the time it was him having the conversation because I was so afraid of the outburst, like we had talked about earlier.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely got much better at that over time.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, that was one of the most difficult boundaries that we had in our home.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And was that something that you co-created with your husband to say, okay, we know that this is going on.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: What can we live with and what can we not live with?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is that like how did you arrive at that?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I guess is my question.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was basically exactly what happened.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: We had so many incidences of finding nugs or whatever, pot, and Leslie never really found really tough drugs in our home.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: They were there.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: We just never found them.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: But it was, what are we gonna do?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: This keeps happening.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: What are we gonna do?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then we'd hear, oh, these implements that we use to smoke pot, they're so expensive.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: You can't tell us that we can't, where are we gonna leave it?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: We can't leave it in the car or whatever.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's how we came to that boundary with our kids.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, it was definitely something that my husband and I talked about for a long time.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was so scared to implement it.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: It took a long time.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of things on that I think are worth just highlighting is that first of all, you came up with it together so that it wasn't one of you saying one thing and one of you saying the other.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing is that you took the time to figure out what you wanted it to be, because I think sometimes we feel like something happens.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so in your case, we found a baggie of weed, and right now we have to do something about it.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the truth is you can take the time to say, okay, we found this.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're not okay with it.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: This does not work in my white picket fence green grass situation.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna come up with something, and you took the time to figure it out and figure out something that would work for you, that was doable, that seemed fair, and then you probably communicated it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that pause right there, whether that was four hours or 24 hours or a week, you get to decide what that is, and you can be communicating to your son or your daughter, hey, we found this, your dad and I are not okay with it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: We don't really know what we're gonna do yet, but there's gonna be some boundaries set around this in the future, just so you know.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that when you do have the conversation, it's not like springing it on them at three in the morning when they're under the influence and you haven't slept, like huge red light situation.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to highlight those things because I think that's really important.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's really important to say that.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you brought that up because we did have the wherewithal to know that back then, which was so great.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: To gosh, it's not gonna go well if he's coming in at two in the morning and we're saying, okay, here it is.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: What was nice is when you do say that to your kids, by the way, in a really calm way, hey, we found this.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Try to take out all that emotion of your anger and your fear.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because, and I know that I'm not saying that lightly, I know it's difficult, but I often like to say, pretend you're talking to your co-worker and just say, Oh, hey, I found this in your drawer.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it also paved that way to have that conversation later.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a little more calm because they know what is coming.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say, when we first set out that boundary, my son took it really well.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was really good.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I was bummed it when it happened and he'd have to stay away, but at least he took the boundary and he followed it and he accepted that this is how we wanted our home to be.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it felt good.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of it, like you said, is in the delivery.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have paved the road to say, your dad and I are talking about this, or if you don't have a co-parent, I'm gonna think about this.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you have a parent coach, maybe you're in one of our communities, and you can reach out and get some input and to say, once I figure out what I can live with, I'm gonna let you know and we can talk about it.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Then, let's say it's two days later, you can go back and use the information sandwich and say, hey, would this be a good time to talk about how I found your weed the other night?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, I told you that we were gonna talk about it again.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just so much better than the big crazy emotional confrontation at three o'clock in the morning when nobody is in a good position to do it.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have something that you can actually work with and hold.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you've also been able to think through what are gonna be, like you said, what are the consequences of me holding this?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, my son isn't gonna be home, and that's gonna make me nervous.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So then you can start working on the how am I gonna not be so nervous?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all the stuff that takes time to do.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good one.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the last thing I was gonna say about that is that was what worked for your family.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And for another family, they might somebody might be listening, going, what is she talking about?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: If I ever found a bong in my house, I would throw that thing in the trash.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's fine.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's totally fine.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Boundaries, there is no like the book of boundaries, right?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's what works for you and your family.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just wanted to highlight that because some people might be going, Why would she let them have a bong in the house?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because that's what worked for them.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if that doesn't work for you, that's fine.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if maybe you're like, I don't care if they have weed in the house, I just don't want fentanyl in the house.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, exactly.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine, that's your boundary.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there is no hard and fast rule.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just thought I would mention that.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's really important to say.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, which is so funny, because I would look at that boundary today and say, oh, there's no way that anything would be in our home.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: So boundaries can change over the years.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so I love that you just said that they are very personal.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: To one person, it's one way, and to another, just you can never say I would never do that because you never know.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad that you said that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: What about you?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to hear what was the boundary that you had in your home.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, like I said, I didn't really understand the whole boundary thing, but when I did start getting my head wrapped around it, two things come to mind.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: One was a boundary that I had for myself, and I'll just share that, which was I had decided I was going to start allowing the natural consequences to happen if my son didn't get up to go to school or to get up to do whatever he was supposed to do.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so crazy that I could not stop myself from going down.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I didn't go into his room and wake him up, I would go downstairs because I suddenly had to vacuum at seven in the morning because it's really embarrassing to admit these things.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so I was like, I can't keep waking him up.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I need to let him figure this out.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way I could stop myself from doing that was either to leave the house and go on a walk or to get in the shower.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I would do.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: I would be looking at my watch, I would be looking at the down the stairs.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: There is no sign of life.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just force myself, I would put that boundary around myself to say, I am not gonna do this.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, I'm going to keep myself busy, which eventually it got me more emotionally regulated.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: At first, it was just painful.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in the shower, just did it feel so forced?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, why am I doing this?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: This I should be waking him up.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: I hear you.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: It feels so unnatural.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's the worst.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was the worst.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then it really didn't take long before I realized, first of all, he was like, Mommy, don't wake me up.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's no, that's why they invented alarm clocks, or that's why they invented alarms on your phone.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And just me handing that responsibility back to him.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I told him that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you know what, buddy?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're 15 or whatever, however old he was.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: You are now responsible for waking yourself up.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I've talked about this before.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: My apology is like, I am so sorry.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've been treating you like you were two, because I did have to use to wake you up.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: So this is your thing now.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything I can do to help you?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want an actual old-fashioned alarm clock that you have to get up and turn off versus your phone, which is in bed with you?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or so we talked about it, but I still was so neurotic that I would try to go down and wake him up.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So did the shower thing and it started to have an impact, which is like what you said is when it starts to work, it is exactly like a diet or exercise.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Once you start to see some results, it's oh, and sure enough, there would be times where I would come back from my walk with the little dog and he would be gone.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now, sadly, he was usually not at school.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, like baby steps.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one, that's an example of what I call an emotional and attitudinal boundary, which is what am I gonna do to protect myself and my own feelings and do what I know is right.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: The harder one, and I had to actually go to therapy for this one.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: The harder one was we were moving as a family, and I had set out the conditions under which my son would be able to move with us.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that included going to therapy, not using, or at least not using around me in the home, packing up his room.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: We'd lived there for 11 years, so there was a lot of stuff.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Pack up your room.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, you have to be out of the house by eight o'clock in the morning because realtors are going to come through and show the house.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't really have a zand out kid in the bed.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a really good selling point.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's here's this lovely home.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, the drugged-out kid in the basement does not come with the house.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to have him.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: So those were some of the conditions, right?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like get out of bed.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: You have to make your bed so the realtors can show your room.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he did none of those.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I was an absolute crazy person.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm at work thinking, oh my gosh, there's a realtor that's going to come to our house, and my son is going to be dead to the world on Xanax in his bed, and that is going to be horrible.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we got to the day when we were moving, and the pods were in the driveway full, and the house was empty, and he was curled up in a sleeping bag in the corner of his room saying, I'm not leaving my house, I'm not leaving my house.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to go through his room with trash bags and put everything from his childhood, everything from 11 years in those trash bags and say, You cannot move with us.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I cannot tell you the address of where we're moving to because I'm too scared of the people that you're hanging around, people that I know you're dealing with.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that took a lot of therapy to be able to do that, a lot of support from his dad and my parents and everybody else.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I just knew I had to hold that boundary.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it wasn't necessarily like saying that.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And knowing that he didn't have anywhere to go and that he would likely be, and this is what I often hear is well, if I do that, then that's going to push him closer to the drug dealers, the users, whoever.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: But guess what?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: He would have done that anyway.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: So just because I let him move with us wouldn't mean that he was going to stop seeing those guys or hanging out with them or dealing or whatever.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really hard.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say that if you are at the point where you have to hold a boundary that severe, get yourself some support, right?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't try to do that alone and make sure that siblings understand.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because here I have a son who is moving with us, and now he can't tell his brother where we're moving to.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't do enough planning because I was too busy packing the house, but I should have done a little bit more work up front to prepare our other son for the fact that his brother would not be moving with us.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: But have a therapist or a coach or a buddy or a oh somebody who can hold you through that because that is torturous.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: The stream, the stream, come join us in Hope Stream because I agree these that it's really so tough.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: And there's so many stories like yours, right?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it is so important to surround yourself with that community of people who get it and extra added support of a therapist, a personal therapist is really important because, like you say, our boundaries they're for us and they for our whole family around us too, right?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, it was for your son, but also it affected his brother.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I should clarify that I talked about the boundary starts with I or me.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: The way I phrased it probably wasn't super clear because I was like, you can't move with us.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: But what it was, I need to live in a home where I am not terrified every day that there are going to be drug dealers coming here, that you're going to be here under the influence, that I have to be anxious every time I'm in my home.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the root of the boundary.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll talk about we have a workshop that we do that goes through all of this because you really have to, you have to root your boundaries in a value that you hold.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the value that I was holding was safety and peace in my home.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I had none of that when my son was living with us.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that same boundary would have applied to his stepdad or anybody who was going to be moving with us.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that it was only about him.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was if anybody in our household is going to make our home unsafe, uncomfortable, potentially dangerous, that doesn't work for me.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's the green grass and the picket fence situation where actually, no, you can't come in here and let your dog poop on my grass.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the equivalent was.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, but in a very, very, very difficult situation.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the support is really important.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: So those are just some examples of, I think the emotional ones we tend to forget about.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I would just encourage people to think about those.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do you need to do for yourself to keep yourself emotionally regulated, physically regulated?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you might need to have a boundary that says, I need to exercise five times a week in order to stay sane.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or I need to order a meal service three times a week so that I can nourish my body because I don't have that bandwidth mentally or physically to cook right now.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean you have to do that forever.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about social media.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: I actually created a boundary around that too.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that I did that.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I still to this day do it, by the way.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: There are just certain times of year that for me, honestly, it's a little tough.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: And we're in a great place.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: And but I really feel that it's so important to give yourself permission to say, hey, you know what?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm either going to hide some accounts or I'm just not going to check social media.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's prom and graduation time, maybe whatever that is, Christmas, whatever that is for you.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: Give yourself that grace, set a boundary around social media or whatever that is that that might be affecting you because I think it's just so important.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Those are some really tough times emotionally.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: I also think it's important to think about boundaries with other family members because you often get into really awkward positions where it's we're having a birthday party for Uncle Joe, but we don't want your son Sam to come because he might be high or whatever.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to start to really think about how this expands out to so that you feel comfortable at family gatherings or oh, I don't want to get together with my sister because she always starts telling me exactly what I need to do with my daughter.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to send her there and you need to do this.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you have a boundary that for a while, if we're together, sister, we just don't talk about my daughter.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if that works for you, cool.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Come on into my through my picket fence.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you feel like you honestly need to tell me every time we're together what I need to do with my daughter, then I'm gonna need to spend some time away from you for a little bit.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we can text or maybe we can share photos on Instagram, but we're probably just not gonna get together.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so hard, especially with family.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: It is so hard.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it's again, it's what works for you to keep you safe and happy and healthy.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: And to understand too that this is a forever.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's I think one thing that I think holds us back is because we think, oh my gosh, we do this, it'll never, this'll be forever.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it isn't forever.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: It isn't forever.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe it's just not working the way you want it.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay to tweak your boundary a little bit.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like the example that you just gave by.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you could say to your sister, for example, hey, look, five minutes we could chat about it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: But after that, I just really want to enjoy this holiday with the family.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: Are you cool with that?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: And because our family members love us and are well-meaning.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so you could maybe tweak your boundary a tiny little bit if you feel like I just don't want to not celebrate with family.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: So tweak it so that it works for you.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: That is a really good point.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: We could go on and on, but I think we should let people know we do have a boundaries workshop where we do this for two hours.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't that sound fun?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: It actually does sound fun because I'll tell you this.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: If I had known seven years ago that there was something like that, that would have said, hey, Kathy, come on in here in this really safe Zoom meeting room.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: You could have your screen off if you want or whatever.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to have a nice cup of whatever you like to drink and just sit here and we're going to talk about something that is really difficult and we're going to guide you through it.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: I would have been all on board with that.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it is something that I think is a life-changing thing.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: And really, we just hope that you sign up for it and come because don't be afraid.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone gets it.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: The people in that meeting room have all been where you are, or worse.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so we often say there's not much you can do that shocks us at all.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Please come.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's a nice safe place.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: And gosh, you learned so much.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: We do have scholarships.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's$49.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can't do that, we do have scholarships for those who need a little bit of help.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: So don't be shy about that.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, this is what I love because you have a workbook that you go through and you walk away with a boundary written down, thought through, why you're holding it, what it means to you, how you're going to communicate it, what you're going to do when it blows up in your face, like all the things.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very helpful.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's a playbook.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is a playbook.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought about it that way, but it is a playbook.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: I imagine like you could wear one of those wrist playbook things like the football players wear.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then when you're walking around your house and something happens, you're going to go and flip that open and say, okay, this is the time.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: We might need to create some merch.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Alrighty.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining me.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: I will see you soon.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, my friend, I am so glad that you were here with me today.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want the resources from this episode?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you do, head to hopestreamcommunity.org, click podcast, and you will find this episode along with 300 or so others and every link that we mention.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if you haven't tried it yet, we offer a free two-week trial of our online community for moms, the stream.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: No credit card needed, no commitment, just go to hopestreamcommunity.org forward slash try, and we can get you set up with a free two-week membership.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if this is your first time here, or if this whole approach feels new and uncomfortable, that is normal.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can grab a free ebook I wrote called Worried Sick.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: It will help you start seeing new ways to respond to your child and find new ways to approach this whole situation that feels very confusing.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can find that at hopestreamcommunity.org forward slash worried.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: You, my friend, are an elite level parent.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: You are doing an incredible job.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: You do things most parents never have to do.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I am so honored to be walking this path with you.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Take ridiculously good care of yourself, and I will meet you right back here next week.