Latest / I Do, Part 2 / We Were Supposed To Meet In Mexico, Instead We Met At His Husband’s Funeral

Transcript

We Were Supposed To Meet In Mexico, Instead We Met At His Husband’s Funeral · I Do, Part 2

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: It is Saturday, September 5th, and we don't get to
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: say this a whole lot, but we're very excited for
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: you to hear from our guest who we met at
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: a funeral. And with that, welcome to this episode of
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Amy and TJ. We met him at a funeral in
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: robes who were actually supposed to meet him at his engagement.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: This is a hell of a story, a hell of
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: a guy that we only know because of another hell
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: of a guy. That blessed our lives.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: Many of you have heard us talk about who we've
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: described as our guardian angel, the late and great Howard Bragman. Professionally,
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: he was a public relations guru, but personally, I think
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: it's fair to say he was our personal lifesaver at
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: a time we needed him the most.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: He was a guardian angel to us, as we say,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and just weeks before that, Ish kind of hit the
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: fan for us over at ABC and Good Morning America
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: and some very nasty headlines about us. We bumped into
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: him and Howard reentered our lives of all places at
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: a wedding, at a wedding of a mutual friend. And
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: we reconnected. But then a few weeks later, of course,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: things happened. He reaches out to us and this started happening.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: really rose for the next couple of months, a back
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: and forth and a reacquaintance and really a beautiful growth
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: of a relationship that we had been missing for quite
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: some time. And then as soon as we got it,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: it was gone.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he entered our lives at a time we didn't
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: even know we were about to need him more than
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: ever before. We were leaning on him, his wisdom, his comfort,
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: his care. And then he invites us to come and
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: share this story exciting place, Puerto Vallarta, that we had
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: never been to with a man who he had been
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: in love with for the past year. He was excited
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: to introduce us to what he called his forever guy,
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: the guy who he just knew he was going to
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: marry one day. So yeah, we thought we were going
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: to get to meet Mike Momoni in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: What we didn't know is Mike Momoni had plans of
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: his own to propose to Howard during that trip.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: That trip never happened for all of us because Howard
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Bragman died in February of 2023. Just about 11 days,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I believe it was, after we last saw him and
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: visited him at his home in Los Angeles. And it
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: came on suddenly, something that he thought was initially just
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: an issue or an irritation in his mouth that he
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: was actually going to a dentist for. But turns out
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: they found that he had leukemia. And in only a
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: very short time after we saw him, he ended up
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: in the hospital and he never left the hospital. But
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: while in the hospital the day before he died, he
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: married the love of his life, Mike Mamone. And Mike
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Mamone later rose. We got a chance to talk to
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: him via text there for a little while when everything
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: was going on with Howard. But the first time It's odd, Robes,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: the first time you meet somebody who's at a funeral service.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, especially when you thought that you were going to
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: meet him at a beautiful location, come to find out
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: he was going to propose. And yeah, we would have
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: possibly gone from reuniting with Howard at a wedding to
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: then being there with him at his very own wedding. Instead,
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: we met Mike Mamone at Howard's funeral in Los Angeles.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: And Mike wrote a book called honoring the man that
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: we will always regard as our guardian angel.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: The name of his book is guess what? I love you.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: And here now is our powerful and beautiful conversation with
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Howard's forever guy, Mike Mamone.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: And Mike, it is such a pleasure to see you again.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: It's been, it's been a couple of years and we
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: know where we saw you last.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: Um, I wish we would have met for the first
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: time in a little happier circumstances, but I was really
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: grateful that you all have been remembering my late husband
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: Howard with me, and so thanks for having me.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: You know, it's crazy to think we met you at
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: a funeral. The time we spent with you was at
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: a memorial service. That's weird. I haven't really put it
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: in those terms and to say out loud, but we
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: know him through that.
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: Yes, and Mike, I also realized we were supposed to
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: meet you. Oof.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: In Puerto Vallarta. We were supposed to meet.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: You at what now, after reading your book, I realize
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: was going to be your proposal to Howard Bragman. You
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: were going to be proposing to him on that trip
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: that we were lucky enough to be invited to, and
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: we had all of these plans that we were going
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: to be hanging out with you and Howard and all
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: of your friends, and it was just a surreal experience
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: to unfortunately instead meet you at his funeral. It's hard
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: to get our heads around still even after these few
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: years to realize things unfolded so quickly and so tragically.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: It took all of our breaths away.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: And I don't think we've caught our breaths when it
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: comes to thinking about how that all happened and how
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: quickly it all happened.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a difficult thing to process.
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: It's like we were supposed to be there celebrating life
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: with Howard.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: And then you all went.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: There graciously because that's what he wanted. he really, he
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: was in the hospital, on the phone, taking care of
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: his loved ones, his friends and family, and just making
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: sure everyone was as okay as possible while he was
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: in the darkest time of his life, so he wanted
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: that for his friends to go down there and to
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: celebrate life in his name, you know, just live it up,
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: because that's what he did, and yeah, so I'm glad
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: you all did that, and Unfortunately, then, yeah, we ended
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: up meeting at his memorial service.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Mike, can you tell us, what was that time like?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: We were only on the phone with him when he
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: was in the hospital. What were those? And I believe
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: you actually sent us a message that said you had
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: to take his phone from him. But we've never actually
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: had a chance to have this conversation those days in
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the hospital. What were those like?
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: Well, I think the biggest takeaway for me is that
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: the way that Howard lived his life is the way
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: he left it. And that was inspiring for me when
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: I finally had time to process it because he went
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: in determined to fight cancer. I will never know what
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: transpired that made him flip fairly quickly from I'm fighting this,
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: we need the rest of our lives together to after
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: we get married, I'm ready to say goodbye. I think
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: he just realized that I think he had some really
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: difficult nights and then realized, uh, for the small amount
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: of life he would be given and the, the, the,
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: the way he would be living those months, he just didn't,
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: he didn't want to go through it. He just wanted
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: to get married and then say goodbye. Uh, so for me,
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: it was excruciating to go from those two things from
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: Howard is.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: In this and we're going to.
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: Have a happily ever after to, I had to come
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: around to support his decision.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: So that, and not being in his head, I'll never know.
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: What that was like, but the end of it was
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: a lesson to live our lives fully and completely and
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: give more than we take so that when you're ready
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: to face down that moment, you can go with.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Grace and confidence and courage.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: And he ended up just tending to us, tending to
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: his loved ones more than he was.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Thinking about himself.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: Mike, you write about that moment when he had this
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: tough night that you didn't realize how tough it was.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: And when he said no, no to more treatment, no
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: to more chemo, one of the reasons he gave was,
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: I've known true love. I've lived my life. I've done
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: everything I set out to do. And he, in a way,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: attributed part of his decision to having met you, to
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: having known you, to having loved you, and to feel
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: that peace at being able to say, I don't need
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: to suffer for another day because I've already experienced what
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: we're here on earth to do, to love another person truly.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: What was that moment like?
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: I think it took me months to process the gravity
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: of that situation and the meaning of that situation. Um,
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: and just the gratitude that he felt was so inspiring
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: to me. Um, I maybe still haven't fully processed what
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: I meant to Howard because I tend to focus on
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: how much he meant to me. And I mean, he
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: changed my life completely in so many ways. Uh, just the,
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: the thing I write in the book is my year
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: of yes. I mean, he turned it into a lifetime
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: of yes, just opening up a possibility mindset and just
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: keeping my, my heart and mind open to things that
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: come my way. And, uh, so yeah, I just, I,
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: I guess I have gratitude in return. Just, I, I
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: feel lucky that we had that time. And yeah, being
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: special to a man who accomplished so much and meant
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: so much to so many, that just, yeah, it means
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: a lot to me.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: But Mike, did you have any anger? Were you pissed
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: at him a little bit that you were looking forward to, yeah,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: we're going to fight this thing. And then to have
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: him going, I'm at peace.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: It was, you know, it was one of those, those
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: mixes of emotion. There was some anger in there, some frustration,
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: a lot of sadness. Uh, but yeah, I wanted him,
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: I wanted him to keep, to keep fighting. And I
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: think I just, I, I knew it, it wasn't about me,
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: you know, this was his decision.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: And so, I think for a few days I really
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: hoped that he.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: Would come around, that some test or some treatment would
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: give us hope. So I kept thinking in my mind,
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: this is going to change and we're going to get
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: married and he's going to beat cancer. So, yeah, I'd
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: say there's a lot of anger, but there's also just
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: a lot of hope that he would change his mind.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: And I know, Mike, you ended up, he was talking
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: about it, but you technically officially proposed to him there
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: in the hospital. You write about going to get the
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: marriage license, about it being expedited because Howard knew some people.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: That's all Howard.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: He knew a lot of people.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: He knew some people.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: He was able to expedite the marriage license. You get
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: married there in the hospital. And you all had only
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: been together at that point for one year, correct? And
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: I say only, but that is a pretty quick period
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: of time to feel as intensely as the two of
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: you did. But that whirlwind romance and getting engaged and
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: married in the hospital.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: I cannot imagine....
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: How that must've felt, what you had in your mind,
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: what it was going to be like, what it was
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: going to look like.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: And then what it actually was.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: Can you, from the moment he was diagnosed with leukemia
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: until the moment he passed, how long was that stretch?
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: It was 10 days.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: He had been sort of feeling under the weather for
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: a few weeks, but even then it was just, it
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: was like a lightning strike. And, uh, The thing I
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: referenced in the book that I did not want to
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: hear one more time was that it was like a
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: med school final exam case because like everything that they
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: did on one system was affecting the other systems of
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: his body.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: So it was like there.
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: Just wasn't a path forward, even though the oncologist kept
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: insisting there was. There wasn't an acceptable path forward for Howard.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Howard, I mean, Mike, I don't know if we ever
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: told you this, but Howard called me from the hospital,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: the first thing he said to me, and I was confused.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: How did I look to you when you saw me last?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't even say hi on the phone.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I picked up. He said, how did I look to
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: you when you saw me last? Because he couldn't believe
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: that his health had turned so quickly. Did you see
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: a path forward? He said he didn't see one. The
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: oncologist might have. But did you see in reality that
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: there was still some option you could Try.
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because I hadn't had that experience yet, I think
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: that he had seen loved ones go through this and
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: battle cancer and saw how tough the last few months
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: of their lives were, and he just didn't want that.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: And I hadn't had that experience. So, yes, I was
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: definitely thinking, like, what are you talking about? Like, we
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: can do this. But he knew in his heart that
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: he wanted to go out. Like he said, I'm going
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: out a star.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: You know, like he wanted to go out feeling good.
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: And at the end of the day, I have to
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: admire that and just remember to live every day so
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: that when I'm staring down that moment that I can
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: do the same thing.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: You know, that is like I could get choked up
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: because that is such a gift to be able to
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: know that you lived your life so fully. so freely,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: that you're able to say, I'm good, I've.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Done it all.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: And like, leave it to Howard to put it like that,
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: because we had been with him, what, a few days
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: before this all unraveled, and I remember he didn't seem
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: he didn't seem unlike himself. He took a nap, I
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: remember that, but I thought, yeah, you know, who knows.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: He took a nap while we hung out, and then
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: he came back, and he begged us to spend the
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: night that night, and he was protecting us in this moment.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: I know you know the story, but we were literally
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: being chased by paparazzi. He was putting in phone calls
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: to Harvey Levin with TMZ to figure out who was
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: chasing us. He was there trying to protect us, and
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: I look back now, and I was like, why didn't
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: we spend the night He wanted us to, he wanted
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: to continue to protect us.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: That was who he was. He was like a papa bear.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: Uh-huh.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: I've heard so many testaments to him being this like
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: protector figure. And it's interesting because to me, it was just,
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: he's just my big bear, you know.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't really need that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: And I actually wanted to be that for him because
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: it felt like you know, stories that I knew from
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: some of his past relationships, it felt like he just
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: never had that protector in his life, because.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: He was always playing that role.
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: So I was in the right phase of my life
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: after a couple frogs, to be like, you know what,
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: I want to be I want to be that guy
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: for for Howard.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, can you I don't know if it's what was
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the entire proposal planned? What did you plan to do
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: in Puerto Vallarta? And I guess we would have all
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: been there witnessing it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: You would have been there, yeah. Yes. Well, so his
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: birthday was coming up.
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: So I was going to wait till his birthday, wait
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: till everyone was gathered around the dinner table and just
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: like stand up and say, I have something to say.
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: And in front of all of his friends, just tell
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: him that I wanted to spend the rest of my
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: life with him.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that was the plan at least. What do
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: they say? Man makes plans.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: God laughs. Yes. I'm curious.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: You all referred to each other and I know you
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: dedicated your book to my forever guy.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: You were 41 when you met. He was 66. So
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: there was a 25 year age gap. Did I get
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: that right?
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: What made Howard? What was it about Howard that made
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: him almost immediately? I know you all played around a
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: little bit. You have a bunch of your text messages
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: in the book, but pretty quickly you all realized this
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: wasn't just a fling. This wasn't just an infatuation. What
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: was it about Howard that made you ready and aware
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: that he was your forever guy?
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, there's I definitely learned the word beshert from him.
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: you know, like soulmate. And I hadn't believed in that, but, uh,
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: now I do think that there's some version of that.
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: That's true because we just, it just clicked and there
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: was a 25 year age gap, but I almost feel
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: like it was in the other direction because I was
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: definitely the more mature one in the relationship. He's like
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: a teenager at heart, uh, very mischievous, uh, dirty sense
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: of humor. Like, so I was always just like mortified
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: by some of the things he would say.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: He was cracking jokes in the hospital bed.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: He, he kept a sense of humor until the last minute. Um,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: so yeah, it's, uh, I don't know.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: It's just, we ostensibly, there were so many differences, our age,
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: we were long distance because I was living in Nashville
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: when we met, uh, you know, our pace of life,
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: because I think he was kind of cutting back on
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: client on his client list and kind of trying to just.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Work with the people he wanted to work with.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: And, you know, I'm just all systems go still, because
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: I'm in my 40s. And I'm just still, you know,
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: hungry and trying to make things happen. And so those
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: things on paper don't look good. But once we really
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: dug in, and we started talking, we just had so
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: many of the same core values, so many similar experiences
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: and taste and music and pop culture. And it's just,
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: We didn't even think about the differences after my initial
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: walls came down. Then we really just, you know, we
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: were inseparable.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: When you find your forever person, and maybe you can
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: speak to people who lose the love of their life
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: in a breakup, that can happen. You lost it, obviously,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: in a much different way. But how do you get,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: when you finally find the person you believe is your person,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: what steps do you even begin to take to get
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: past that? that to try to move on from losing
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: somebody you waited your whole life for?
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: But I think the, the subtle vocabulary change I've learned is,
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: is not moving on, but moving forward because we take
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: them with us. Um, so it's, uh, I, for me,
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: I feel blessed because I'm able to create and I
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: didn't even, I mean, I've always liked writing, but I
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: didn't fancy myself an author. Um, But musically, I just
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: immediately went to learning the songs that were really important
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: to us, learning songs that were special for him, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: just recording my feelings and putting them into the piano
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: and making this tribute album for him. And it was
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: a devastating process. I've never cried that much while recording anything.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: And luckily, I can record myself because that would have
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: been super awkward to be in a recording studio with
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: an engineer around. I'm just like, hold on, I need
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: another break. I'm going to crawl under this piano and cry.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: For a little bit.
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: So I was able to just, you know, sit in
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: my own studio and do that and work through it.
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: So I guess my message to other people would be
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: to find what that is for you.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: You know what is.
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: Your outlet because we have to address the grief before
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: we can start to heal and so it's you know
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: if it's gardening or painting or writing or whatever it
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: is it's just whatever way you can feel like you're
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: connecting to that person you've lost I think it's best
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: to just dive in and and really really put yourself
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: into that rather than trying to just keep yourself busy.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because speaking of the grieving process, I know this,
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: forgive me, this will sound like a dramatic question, but
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: it was a dramatic experience.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: You go from in your head and in your.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Heart planning a proposal, thinking you're going to be planning
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: a wedding, to literally within days planning a funeral.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: Mentally, how do you get through that?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I was in such shock. But
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I will say.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: Howard's network of friends and family and chosen family is
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: immense and strong. I mean, it just felt like I
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: had this community.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: To catch me.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: And, you know, Scott Morrow, who did the majority of
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: the planning for his celebration of life, you know, he
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: took care of all of it. And I was just
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: sort of sitting in those meetings in a daze, like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: I could not believe this was happening to me.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: It was so surreal.
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: But everybody stepped up and I was told a couple
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: of close friends said, you know, be careful because right
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: now everybody's checking in on you and that's going to
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: go away really soon. And you're going to be left
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: by yourself in that house. And the thing about Howard
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: is that wasn't true. People still check in on me
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: and it's been three years.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: He meant so much.
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: To so many people that the lasting legacy is that
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: the family's still out there. And so people will text
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: me randomly, just like, I had a thought about Howard.
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: I just wanted to reach out and say.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Hi. His memory really, really continues.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: There is no question. It's kind of amazing to us
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: how often we talk about Howard.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Constantly.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: It is kind of amazing to think. And Mike, we
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: have your your book here in front of us, Guess What?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I Love You.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Was this a part of your, I guess, catharsis, just
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: like your music was? Or did you find that there
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: is a community for you and maybe there are folks
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: out there who need to hear what you went through
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: because they're dealing with something similar?
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: I think I came to that second point during the
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: process and especially now that I'm on tour, like doing
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: release shows and talking to people, I'm realizing that There
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: are just so many people that we don't even realize
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: are carrying grief with them every day.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: And it's hard.
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: It's definitely a conversation ender if you're just like, yeah,
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: I'm going through something and I lost whoever. And people
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: don't want to talk about it. So I think that
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: this process has become a way to put it right
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: out front and talk to people. And one person at
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: a show in San Francisco said he lost his husband
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: because And he didn't have the words to grieve properly,
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: but that my book and the record was helping give
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: him a framework to put his emotions into. And that's,
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: to me, that makes it worth the two and a
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: half years of crying on the page, you know, just
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: knowing that it's out there helping some other people.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, and it certainly does.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, people, the biggest thing is to know they're
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: not alone, to know that other people have walked that
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: walk and have managed to survive and eventually thrive. You
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: were referencing this, how often we genuinely, Mike, say, God,
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: I wish we could call Howard. I wish we could
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: call him about, yes, professional things and what should we do,
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: what shouldn't we do, but even about relationship issues.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: He was just this person who you trusted.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: He had walked the walk. He had lived so much life.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: He had seen so much and counseled so many. I
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: can't think of anyone who the two of us would
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: have trusted more with literally relationship problems, with helping us
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: see common ground when we don't understand each other. That's
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: what he did for so many people. I'm curious how...
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: I can only imagine how many times during the day
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: that you wish you could say something to him, that
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: you wish you could ask him a question. Is there
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: something you miss most about Howard that you think about daily?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: It's the hugs.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: He's a great hugger. Yeah, he's a big guy. It's
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: just a big bear hug. Yeah, just being close. Those
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: are the things that I don't think anyone... makes a
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: movie or writes a book about it. It's those day-to-day
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: simple things, just like the casual touch, just being near
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: each other that I think stand out the most when
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: that person isn't there anymore. So yeah, it's pretty, it's
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: not like a very grand answer.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: But it's just those simple things.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: What is the, when do you, after going through that heartbreak,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: how do you ever begin to even think about it?
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: or consider opening yourself up to love again.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: I definitely had a few people tell me like they're,
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: you know, people like to tell you what's the right timeline.
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: I'm sure you've all, you've had a lot of people
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: tell you what's right and what's not right. But yeah,
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: so I didn't know, I didn't know what to expect.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: I didn't know how people would react.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: It's, it's really awkward.
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: You know, it's like how, How is Howard's family going
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: to react if I meet somebody?
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: What's the right thing to do? So it just, yeah,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: Think that through like approaching the healing journey of writing
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: and recording, I was just sort of like, I didn't
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: even realize it, but just sort of opening my heart.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: To new love. And knowing that Howard told me at.
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: The end, to find love again, even though I didn't
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: want to hear it, I think helped me realize that
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: there was another love in the future.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: And that's true love.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Literally on his deathbed, he was worried about you, TJ.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: He was worried about his friends. He was worried about
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: taking care of everyone else. And he made sure to
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: let you know that he wanted you to find love again.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: That is true love.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: Do you remember? it's hard for me to even speak
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: because that makes, I think, anyone who's loved someone so
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: emotional to know that is the most beautiful gift you
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: can give someone is to say, I love you so much.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Even without me, I want you to be happy.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: And you're a young man.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: You're in your 40s. You have a lot of life
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: to live.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. You're right.
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: I think that he just knew all the right things
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: to say. And I think that's why so many people
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: sought his advice. And probably from from living so much,
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: like you said, from advising people.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, I, I think, I.
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: Think there's just so many like kismet moments, so many
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: God winks as I've come to say.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: And I think that like your experience when you.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: Shared, um, on your podcast about Howard, about having just
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: sat right in front of him, I think at a
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: wedding so you could reconnect. I mean, it's just, it's
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: unbelievable how many things just kind of have to happen for, for,
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: for things to fall into place.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we had known him for years and years and years,
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: you at CNN, me at MSNBC, and then to have him, yes,
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: just sit right behind us in that moment when we
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: didn't know we were about to need him more than
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: ever before in our lives.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: We actually reconnected, I.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: Believe it was about two weeks before our world blew up.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: And that is not coincidence.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: And by the way, Mike, we didn't reach out to
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: him for help. When shit hit the van for us,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: our phone was blowing up, him offering that help. And
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: that's just, that's Howard.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: That's how he was, yeah.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: And not for a paycheck, not because he wanted us
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: to sign a retainer and employ him.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: He wouldn't accept a dime from us. It was just
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: his heart.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he saw that love, I think.
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: I think, like you said, when you're in a good
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: place in your own life and you feel that love,
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: I think that you can see it in others and
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: be happy for them. Cause I've definitely been in the
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: moments like after a breakup where I don't want to
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: see that. I'm like, if I see a happy couple
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: and I just had a bad breakup, I'm like, get
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: that out of my face. Uh, but when you're in
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: a good spot in your own life, I think that you're,
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: you're able to recognize it in others and, and, and
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: you just want to help, help support that.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Mike, can I ask, what did you say to him
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: when he told you to go find love again?
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: I wonder what exactly I said. I think I just said,
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: stop it. You know, like, I don't want to hear it,
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: you know? Like, cause I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: anywhere near that headspace. I still wanted him to, to
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: turn it around, you know, but he was already thinking
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: 10 steps ahead.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: As he usually did.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Mike, at what point did you accept that he, he
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: was going to die? I mean, it was so quick,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: but do you remember the point when you actually realized,
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: holy hell, he's not going to make it?
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: I think it was the day it happened. I think
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: even through our wedding, I was, I was hoping. some
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: miracle would happen. Um, so we, we had one night
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: together as husbands, and then the next morning was when
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: it started to take a real turn so I think
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: that when he finally like shut his eyes I think
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: and just the breathing slowed down I just realized like
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: this is it and I just tried to get every
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: moment I could you know next to him singing to
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: him talking to him.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Mike, man, it's hard to talk about Howard. How does
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: he play in your world every day now, right? I mean,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: from the time you get up.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: In the morning. It's a funny thing you should ask that.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: So I have his picture by my bedside, and I
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: wake up every morning and I say, good morning, Howard,
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: I love you, and thank you. Because one of the
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: things I've learned is just daily gratitudes are very important. Actually,
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: a vocal coach told me that. So in the morning,
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: one of my routines is this voice training thing. And
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: one of the things is you hit the highest falsetto
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: note you can, and then you say something you're grateful for,
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: and you go for one note higher. And every morning,
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: it's I thank Howard for the love and for trusting
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: me with his story and his legacy and, and giving
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: me the, the, the means to share it. Um, so yeah,
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: I think it's just a daily gratitude and reflection on
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: the love that we had and that continues to be
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: around me.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: And, uh, and yeah, if you're wondering when.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: You said about new love, I actually did find somebody
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: and it was a crazy story.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: He's also a widower and they knew Howard.
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: Um, but Being a widower himself, he has his late
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: husband on his side of the bed. So we both,
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: you know, say good morning to our forever guys and
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: thank them for introducing us.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: What the hell?
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: That is so beautiful.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: There are four people in your relationship and you wouldn't
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: have it any other way.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And they respect it.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And they respect it. Wow.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, Mike.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Mike, when are you getting over to New York? We
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: need to sit down and spend some time with you, man.
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love that. Hopefully soon. I've got a
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: new booking agent. We're doing some work on 2027, so
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: I'm hoping I'll be out.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: There a bunch.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: Well, we would love to see you. We listened to
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: your music today. We read your book. It is such
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: a beautiful tribute, all of it, to honor someone who
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: deserves to be remembered. And I love that every day
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: starts with that gratitude.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: And I love you, Howard. I mean, that is as
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: beautiful as it gets.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: And I think, look, a lot of people have experienced
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: a loss, maybe not quite as... I mean, your story is...
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: almost like a, tells like a movie. It's like a
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: movie script. It doesn't even seem possible because it was,
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: it was so quick, but it was so dramatic and
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: it was so real. And I love how you have
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: honored him and still been able to move forward with
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: someone who understands.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: I think that gives people hope who might be in.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: A place where they don't see any, when they've lost
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: someone that they truly loved and considered their forever person.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope so. Thank you for saying that. I
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: think that that's, I honestly started the book just trying to.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Tell Howard's story because he lived so much.
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: I wanted to share that with the world. And then
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: it sort of morphed into telling his story through the
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: lens of our love story. So I really hope that
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: that that's the lasting impression will be to, to give people, uh,
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: some perspective.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: That there, there is a possibility out there for healing.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: What would Howard say about your new guy?
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Uh, Can I share that on the podcast? Okay. The
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: second thing Howard would say about my new guy is
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: just that he's really happy for us.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: I love that. I love that, Mike. Mike, thank you.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for being so vulnerable and so real.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: Like your book, your music, and just this interview, I
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: know will mean the world to so many people who
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: are going through it right now.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks, Amy. Thanks, TJ. I'm really, really grateful
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: that you had me on the show. Good to see you,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: my brother.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: We'll see you in New York soon, all right?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: All right. Sounds good.