Latest / Identity at the Center / #193 - Recapping 2022 and Predicting 2023 with Jerod Brennen

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#193 - Recapping 2022 and Predicting 2023 with Jerod Brennen · Identity at the Center

• 0:09
  You're listening to the identity of the sender podcast.
• 0:12
  This is the show that talks about identity and access
• 0:14
  management and making sure you know who has access to what
• 0:18
  let's get started. Welcome to the identity of the
• 0:26
  center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
• 0:27
  Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Oh not so bad yourself.
• 0:31
  I'm doing great man and today was a really fun day.
• 0:34
  Got to participate in a Carolina identity Roundtable webinar.
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  I guess is what you would call it joined by you joined by
• 0:47
  Ashley ruse. Let's go and browse their route
• 0:51
  that's going. And this whole party should have
• 0:53
  just give me the names. Yeah.
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  Ashley Beth and prints. It was a great conversation
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  that's for sure. Thanks to Tom Lennon for
• 1:01
  inviting us. Not only to the CO2, the to the
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  webinar itself. But to the group, I'm a recent
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  Carolina transplant. So I kind of went with my feet
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  that one pretty easily. Yeah.
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  Yeah. It was a really good
• 1:14
  conversation about our back, the gift that keeps on giving.
• 1:18
  I mean you know we've been dealing with our back since our
• 1:21
  first days in identity access management.
• 1:24
  In its here this year, it'll be here next year, which goes with
• 1:29
  our theme of what's hot at the end of the year.
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  You know what, what happened in the past year, what's happening?
• 1:35
  In the coming year are back. We'll be there.
• 1:39
  Yeah, that's for sure. I was kind of surprised actually
• 1:42
  how far along each of them were with their Journeys, and their
• 1:47
  organizations. And I haven't, I haven't
• 1:50
  listened to the replay yet, so my hope is that I'll be able to
• 1:53
  turn it into an episode. In the future that will play.
• 1:56
  Maybe in January. This is most likely our last
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  episode for the year. We usually take a few weeks off
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  here between Christmas New Year's and sort of getting
• 2:05
  started in the New Year getting feet settled.
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  So we're going to talk about I guess, kind of identity and
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  retrospective you know, things that happened through the year
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  2022, What's it gonna be remembered for maybe some
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  predictions for next year? But yeah, I'm looking forward
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  to. I got it was, it was a fun
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  conversation. I had a great time with it.
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  Kind of emceed it. Had a panel discussion and had
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  some good interaction with the audience and, you know,
• 2:29
  questions and stuff like that. So it was fun.
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  I had a good time. You've gotten really good at
• 2:34
  that man. I think it's all your podcasting
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  time. Yeah.
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  Put a I can't do anything about the voice but at least I was
• 2:41
  prepared. So I guess that's the probably
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  the most important thing. So what else we have going on in
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  awe? There's a couple things that
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  have been working on with identify verse.
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  They're looking, you know, stole I think the call for speakers is
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  still open and that's definitely about you and I are going to try
• 2:55
  and hit next year. Still open.
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  We'll put the link to the, put the link to the call, two
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  speakers in the show notes. Obviously, it's one of the
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  biggest identity conferences of the Year gardeners.
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  Usually, the other biggest Conference of the year.
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  And I think that people need to be aware that that conference is
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  taking place in March this year. A different location near Dallas
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  Texas. Yeah so Usually Gartner is like
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  the first week of December, a kind of right after
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  Thanksgiving. I'm not sure yet.
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  If it's smart to pull it Forward, I think it is because
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  there's probably more budget still available at that time
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  versus towards the end of the year.
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  When people like, okay, what can I spend my money on?
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  Oh, there's a conference, like, that's how we can use it, which
• 3:42
  is also has benefits. Because, hey, there's money left
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  over. What are gonna spend it on?
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  Let's go send people to a conference.
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  So I would be interesting. Yeah.
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  How that, how that works out, but it's definitely be aware
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  Gartner is much earlier this year.
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  It is in March. I mean the date changes big but
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  I think location changes even bigger.
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  It's been in Las Vegas for as long as I could remember.
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  Announcing being doused Sexes. I'll enjoy that.
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  I mean I was kind of getting sick of Vegas.
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  My last visit. Nothing against Vegas are people
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  from Vegas but you know you only stay there so long on this trip
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  before you had too much. I like Vegas.
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  So we'll see grape Grapevine Texas.
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  Here we come for Gardner, you and I are planning on being
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  there. So, so we got that going on.
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  We're going to, I should say. Also while we have our break
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  going on, we're working on some pretty big stuff.
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  So hopefully people will stick around with us and come back
• 4:36
  when we're back in January. When, hopefully we'll have some,
• 4:39
  some big announcements that will be able to make for next year,
• 4:41
  as well, State of the Union. When it comes to the podcast, we
• 4:46
  had another great year. I could, we can say that.
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  As we ended 2022, we have doubled our listeners again.
• 4:54
  Both zero is still zero but we actually have listeners around
• 4:57
  the world. Thousands of folks tuned in,
• 4:59
  which is absolutely nuts. This is the, you know, the third
• 5:02
  year that we've been doing is podcast and every year we've
• 5:05
  been doubling and it is purely through Word of Mouth.
• 5:08
  We have you know, no budget other than whatever Jim and I
• 5:11
  decide to put into it and we don't do any advertising, so
• 5:15
  it's purely word of mouth and people sharing it.
• 5:17
  I saw a stat the other day that we are in the top 10 of the most
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  shared podcasts in the world for all.
• 5:24
  Cast, which is absolutely nuts. And we put out something like
• 5:29
  two thousand, six hundred minutes of content in 2022
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  alone. So if you think about like how
• 5:35
  much we've put out there, like where it's the stat was like
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  we're in the top 3% of all content produced from a podcast
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  perspective. Yeah, that's a lot of content.
• 5:44
  I think one of the sets that jumped out of me, the most was
• 5:47
  the percentage of listeners who actually subscribe to the
• 5:52
  podcast or follow the pod. Gasps think it was, what 42%?
• 5:57
  So just kind of a reminder, if you're a regular listener, just
• 6:01
  stumbled across the podcast for the first time, go out there and
• 6:05
  subscribe to the podcast, it really will help you, you know,
• 6:08
  know, when new episodes are out there and like, Jeff kind of
• 6:13
  alluded to. We put a lot of content out
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  there. At least every week.
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  We'll take a little break over the holiday.
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  Then we'll be recording episode 200, which I think it's a pretty
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  major milestone. Yeah, we had some we have some
• 6:26
  pretty interesting ideas how that might work.
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  So I think what we'll probably hit 200 sometime in February or
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  March depending on sort of the cycle but yeah kind of another
• 6:36
  milestone for us but yeah. Definitely you know the one the
• 6:39
  one thing that everyone can do to help us as hit that follow
• 6:41
  button or subscribe button. That helps us out you know, lat
• 6:44
  and obviously listening and sharing with with your friends
• 6:47
  or enemies. I don't care.
• 6:48
  You know, if you don't like somebody, you like these guys
• 6:49
  suck send to somebody you hate, we don't care.
• 6:52
  It sucks for listening that's all that matters.
• 6:55
  Okay, so that's where things stand at the end of the year.
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  For the podcast, we've got coming up for grabs a couple of
• 7:00
  weeks here, where we take our break.
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  We're going to close out this year with a recap of what should
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  2020 to be remembered for from an identity perspective and then
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  get into some predictions for the future.
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  We've brought back our friend Jared Brennan, he's a principal
• 7:17
  consultant and VC so virtual see.
• 7:19
  So with side Channel back on to the show.
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  Welcome Back Jarrod. Thanks.
• 7:24
  Jeff thanks Jim's going to be talking to you guys again.
• 7:26
  Yeah it's been a while. This is going to be episode like
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  192 or 93 probably 193 and the last time you were with us was
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  episode 60 back in September of 2020.
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  So we already know your eye agent.
• 7:41
  Origin story from an identity perspective.
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  If you don't know it, go back and listen episode 60.
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  We're not going to make you rehash.
• 7:46
  It all over again, but what's been going on going on the last
• 7:49
  couple years you know with yourself and then some things
• 7:51
  that might have been working on. Yeah, yeah.
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  Back in 2020. I would have still been with
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  sale point. I was in an advisory role,
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  they're having conversations like this, but I had an
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  opportunity to move into the startup world and help focus on
• 8:12
  both working with a start-up. And then also helping startups,
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  build Security, Programs that align with how quickly they're
• 8:20
  moving that align with the risk. Appetite of leadership.
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  Very Very different from what you see in the large, make a
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  corporate or prize, but all the principles are still the same.
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  The foundations are the same. It's just finding that right
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  balance. So, I've also spent a little bit
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  of time playing around with web three.
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  I do have some cryptocurrency. I'm still holding my Dogecoin,
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  hoping it'll pop back UPS, whatever's left, right?
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  Yeah. Whatever is left, but I've
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  really landed on on blockchain. Is it?
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  Technology with tremendous untapped potential.
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  And so I want to learn, I want to do this handle and I want to
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  build my own daps. I want to work with other folks
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  who were playing around in that space because that it's
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  absolutely fascinating to me and I'm teaching like a madman.
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  I've been working with LinkedIn learning for a few years now.
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  And I think I've got Almost 30 courses and the library some
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  courses on app SEC courses on, I've got a building
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  cybersecurity for startups course out there.
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  I've got a course in ethics that they actually published a
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  Spotify, so I can go to Spotify and see my picture blows my
• 9:37
  mind, but I'm really digging that and then the, the work I'm
• 9:41
  doing now, with side Channel, I'm as you mentioned, I'm a VC.
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  So for multiple startups, So I have some companies that just
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  want a few hours of security leadership a week and then
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  they've got resources internally to help keep the the program
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  growing. And I've got other companies
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  that have no formal security program and they reach out and
• 10:05
  say, hey, where do we start? How to, how do we actually
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  execute, how do we get to a point that we can meet contract
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  obligations and, you know, protect our IP and it's I don't
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  know, it's it's more my vibe. More my style.
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  That's startup space is it's a lot of fun.
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  I mean it's stressful but it's the kind of stress I want.
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  It's it's pretty swell and you've put out a lot of content
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  as well. Like you mentioned that all the
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  LinkedIn learning. I'll put a link to that in the
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  show notes so people can check that out.
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  It is cool to see people contributing sort of, to the
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  knowledge of the universe. When it comes to stuff, an easy
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  to understand and easy, to kind of grok to Use an older term,
• 10:49
  right? Nut and pull into it.
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  So I think it's pretty cool. I'm glad you touched on the DC
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  so thing because you know, I think sometimes it's a little
• 10:57
  bit of a mystery. Like what does a virtual see?
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  So do are you a hologram right? Do you just appear out of the
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  blue? Like how does this work?
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  Do you like? Yeah, I know for company.
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  I dig that as a Halo fan letter of reference now it's funny.
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  I personally prefer the term fractional because the the
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  reason startups and it's usually Startups, who make the
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  investment. They just don't have the
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  capital, the money set aside to invest in a full-time security
• 11:28
  leader, but they also don't necessarily need somebody for 40
• 11:32
  50 hours a week. They may just need somebody
• 11:35
  who's more advisory or somebody who can step in and manage
• 11:39
  vendors or help them select the right technology or make a
• 11:42
  decision about what the the process should look like to
• 11:46
  again, strike that balance. So It's in some companies.
• 11:52
  It's still kind of army of one where you know you're rolling up
• 11:56
  your sleeve and you're running burps cans and you're going
• 12:00
  through boner ability, scan reports and you're building out
• 12:02
  security awareness training at other companies.
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  You know, I have one where I'm in more of a mentorship role
• 12:10
  where they have a security leader at the company and it's
• 12:14
  that person's First Security leadership role.
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  And if Having conversations with the executive leadership team
• 12:21
  and conversations with the board about the alignment between
• 12:25
  security and business and really being able to demonstrate the
• 12:29
  business value of a security program instead of security
• 12:33
  existing for its own sake. I'm bringing all that experience
• 12:37
  back and mentoring that individual so that they can step
• 12:40
  into the role. Because at VC, so gig isn't
• 12:43
  meant to be permanent. It's meant to go in, help them
• 12:46
  get their feet under them and then when they're ready to To
• 12:49
  leave the nest and fly on their own.
• 12:50
  You step away. And you go up another client.
• 12:53
  Yeah, it's it's fascinating. It's a world that I didn't
• 12:57
  realize how much I'd dig it until I was right in the middle
• 12:59
  of it. Yeah, and it's a cool gig for
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  sure. And I think there's so many ways
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  that, you know, that type of talent can be tapped and enjoyed
• 13:10
  and learn from right. You can be more public facing
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  right in that type of role, you can also be more behind the
• 13:16
  scenes, right? The guy behind the guy and
• 13:18
  really kind of setting, you know, someone up to be
• 13:21
  successful within their organization.
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  So it's an interesting role. I certainly I certainly dig it
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  because you know I actually had a conversation today with a
• 13:29
  company where, you know, there's For any person was an architect
• 13:32
  that was that was just what they had, right?
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  It wasn't like a formal position anything like that and
• 13:37
  eventually you know, this person took on more and more security,
• 13:40
  you know, responsibilities but was never really formally
• 13:43
  trained or brought up in that sort of environment.
• 13:46
  So they had to get, you know, a bit of a crash course.
• 13:48
  And I think this is a way to kind of accelerate that side
• 13:50
  that side of learning. Yeah, one of the courses I've
• 13:54
  got on LinkedIn learning, and it's quickly becoming my most
• 13:58
  popular course is soft. Skills for Information Security
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  Professionals. Because so many of us have grown
• 14:05
  up Tech, I'm a nerd through and through guys, you know, that but
• 14:09
  the ability to talk to a non-technical audience and the
• 14:13
  ability to step away from the details and communicate what we
• 14:18
  do in a way that makes sense to them and helps get them on board
• 14:22
  and you know, gets everybody moving in the same direction.
• 14:25
  It's a whole skill set that. Unfortunately, we don't get that
• 14:29
  exposure to When we're sitting down review on logs and
• 14:32
  configuring tools, we just don't and so you're right.
• 14:37
  You've that architect. I've worked with those folks.
• 14:41
  I've been that guy and the ability to talk to somebody
• 14:47
  about. What's it like to to sell an
• 14:49
  idea to an executive who doesn't understand any of the acronyms
• 14:53
  were using? It's a whole different skill set
• 14:57
  but again, it's exciting. It's like you said, contributing
• 15:00
  to knowledge. Helping people grow helping
• 15:02
  people advance in their own careers.
• 15:04
  That's the kind of stuff when I get to the end of my life, I'll
• 15:06
  look back and say yeah, that was time.
• 15:08
  Well spent Yeah. And the soft skills are
• 15:11
  important. Jim knows which I preach like
• 15:14
  being, you know, just to buy it, you know, the internal teams and
• 15:16
  stuff like that about. You've got to be able to
• 15:18
  articulate what it is that you're doing and why you're
• 15:20
  doing it. Yeah, they're certainly a
• 15:23
  natural gift to it. You know.
• 15:24
  Some people are more comfortable in a public speaking environment
• 15:27
  of presenting order maybe but it is absolutely critical for the
• 15:30
  folks out there if you're if you're, you know, just getting
• 15:33
  into this career I would definitely invest the time and
• 15:35
  being able to figure out what is your voice when it comes to
• 15:39
  Articulating your message. How would you deliver it?
• 15:43
  How do you present it? How do you make it easily
• 15:45
  understood? Because if you can't explain it,
• 15:47
  you're not going to get the approval to move forward.
• 15:49
  You're not going to get the funding nothing's going to
• 15:50
  happen. I know.
• 15:51
  Jim you and I have had conversations about the paths of
• 15:53
  like that so I don't know if there's any words of wisdom.
• 15:56
  You want to get the people out there when it comes to the
• 15:58
  articulation of of their issues and what they're trying to
• 16:02
  solve. I mean there are a lot of
• 16:04
  communication skills that I think make you a better.
• 16:09
  Communicator. But I think the key is you said
• 16:15
  like there's natural skills, maybe and I do agree with that.
• 16:18
  Some people are more Matt, naturally, talented with
• 16:21
  communicating, but I think it's one of those things.
• 16:23
  Even if you are naturally, talented work at it, get
• 16:27
  opportunities to speak and tell your story.
• 16:31
  They're not naturally occurring. Look for a group that you can
• 16:34
  join, where you can practice articulating, your points and
• 16:38
  and writing Things like that. As I do think there are natural
• 16:42
  to some people, but unless you're using those skills are
• 16:45
  going to soften. Yeah, if you'd told my high
• 16:48
  school self that I would be you know hosting a podcast later on
• 16:53
  and be comfortable speaking in front of an audience or you know
• 16:55
  microphone or on camera, I would have been like you are
• 16:58
  absolutely nuts like you are crazy, there's no way that's
• 17:00
  happening. But yeah, it's an important
• 17:03
  skill and I'm glad that it's getting some air time and
• 17:06
  charity. Bring it up.
• 17:06
  I think is it's really important for people to kind of think
• 17:08
  about Alright, let's talk a little bit about identity and
• 17:12
  access management, and when it comes to the year 2022, what
• 17:16
  it's going to be remembered for. There's a lot of things.
• 17:19
  I'm sure that we could probably pick from.
• 17:21
  And the way they were going to kind of do this is just kind of
• 17:22
  go person by person and kind of just discuss what that might
• 17:25
  look like Jared. Being the guest of honor.
• 17:28
  Today, we're going to start with you.
• 17:31
  What is, what is the I am thing that 2022 is going to be
• 17:34
  remembered for I know we don't have a solution yet but I firmly
• 17:42
  believe we're going to look at what's happening in.
• 17:45
  You know, pick your buzzword right.
• 17:47
  Web 3, blockchain Dow, whatever you want.
• 17:50
  To use this notion of decentralizing Technology.
• 17:55
  We had everything one Prem in the data center and then we took
• 17:58
  everything and started building it out in somebody else's Data
• 18:02
  Center. And now we're saying we'll wait
• 18:04
  a minute, do we need to keep all that identity?
• 18:06
  Stuff in there, or can we make it the consumers responsibility?
• 18:11
  The end-users responsibility to own and manage their own
• 18:15
  identity? Where what we saw with bring
• 18:18
  your own device, when the iPhone dropped and people started
• 18:22
  bringing him into work. This notion of bring your own
• 18:24
  identity of self, Sovereign, identity.
• 18:28
  We've been talking about it for some time, but I think there
• 18:31
  were some pretty big things that happened in the blockchain
• 18:34
  space. This year that are well, and the
• 18:36
  tech space in general that are are going to be seen as Catalyst
• 18:41
  for an actual working. Very widely adopted
• 18:46
  decentralized identity solution. They one of those is the, the
• 18:50
  FTX Fallout is the disaster. That is the crash of that
• 18:55
  exchange and when you you look at the nft Rose, you look at
• 19:00
  board. A yacht club and you look at
• 19:02
  everybody thinking well blockchain is just Owning a
• 19:07
  picture and that's what most people outside of the space.
• 19:10
  Think the technology can do, you know?
• 19:13
  It led is crazy. It is to a lot of money floating
• 19:18
  around. I've seen news coming out of
• 19:20
  Miami who is trying to be the crypto capital of the world
• 19:24
  where they were seeing millions of dollars a year on their
• 19:28
  nightclub scene. And now they're lucky to see 10K
• 19:31
  over three months and, you know as as all of this is bottomed
• 19:35
  out and People have said, well, wait a minute, maybe NF teas are
• 19:41
  the thing. I think it's giving us an
• 19:44
  opportunity to look at the true capability of blockchain of the
• 19:47
  compute capability of the code that you can build into the
• 19:50
  chain. Not, it's not just a distributed
• 19:52
  Ledger, you can build this, this Automation and you you have the
• 19:57
  ability to move away from what we hold onto in cyber security
• 20:04
  and identity as as Potentiality is one of the three legs of the
• 20:09
  stool, right? It's part of the CIA Triad or
• 20:12
  the AIC depending on on, where you cut your teeth.
• 20:16
  And so, I think with the collapse of ft x and what we're
• 20:22
  seeing right now with crypto prices dropping down.
• 20:26
  If you also pair that with the tech layoffs, which it's been
• 20:31
  devastating for a lot of individuals, but we're seeing on
• 20:35
  average. And 10% of the workforce when a
• 20:38
  company says, hey we're in the tech space.
• 20:40
  We overcommitted we didn't count on the pandemic.
• 20:42
  There was some other factor and now we can't sustain our
• 20:46
  business unless we reduce our Workforce which is they're
• 20:50
  polite, way of saying, put people out on the street but
• 20:53
  they like if I look at meta, they'll say well, but we're
• 20:56
  going to give Severance so that they've got a few months to get
• 20:59
  their feet under them. You've also got a lot of wicked
• 21:03
  smart people who Are going through a very adverse time in
• 21:11
  their lives right now who are going to be left with a sour
• 21:14
  taste in their mouth. When it comes to counting on big
• 21:17
  megacorp or big company to provide my, my bread and butter,
• 21:23
  my monthly bi-weekly income. And I think a lot of these,
• 21:27
  these folks are going to say, you know what, if I've got
• 21:30
  severed. So, I've got a few months to
• 21:31
  play around. If they've wanted to explore
• 21:34
  projects in, There in that block, 3 web shape web 3 Block
• 21:40
  Chain space. Then there's a combination of
• 21:45
  events here that they're coming together, right?
• 21:47
  Convergence that. I think it's going to lead to
• 21:50
  some really really cool stuff in the decentralized identity
• 21:54
  space. you know, it's interesting that you mention
• 21:59
  that as sort of like, the thing to be remembered for, I'm
• 22:02
  thinking about Twitter and the dumpster fire that has become in
• 22:07
  the last month and the Exodus. That's taking place to things
• 22:10
  like mastodons. For example, right, right.
• 22:13
  Here's the challenge. I have with this.
• 22:15
  It is, it is not easy. I went to sign up for Macedon
• 22:18
  account and I was, I okay, what server do I join?
• 22:22
  How do I find my identity people, right?
• 22:25
  That's pretty much what I use Twitter for, is for David to the
• 22:28
  podcast and connecting with identity when we are pretty, you
• 22:30
  know, a decent following. Their, I've noticed, not as
• 22:34
  People posting on Twitter. So I'm like okay well where are
• 22:36
  we at next, right. Macedon is you know do I need to
• 22:39
  go and find what server people are connected to because even
• 22:43
  though there's this whole concept of federation and its
• 22:46
  really doesn't it the other day probably doesn't matter.
• 22:48
  So much what server you're on. I still think it's important
• 22:51
  because it becomes part of the address, right?
• 22:52
  I don't want to sign on for like, you know, at I don't know.
• 22:55
  I'll pick on Hotmail Hotmail die, what's wrong?
• 23:00
  Yeah. To show my age right here on
• 23:02
  that. I would probably want to have
• 23:03
  the Art of a full cool server or something is more reflective of
• 23:07
  the Persona that I'm trying to create and I just don't think, I
• 23:10
  don't think we're there yet. It's not easy enough for the
• 23:13
  average consumer to take advantage of these types of
• 23:16
  services. You have to be almost like an
• 23:18
  expert to be able to consume some of the stuff agree.
• 23:21
  Absolutely it and it's very much tip of the spear but that's what
• 23:26
  you know when I say what's the the Catalyst, right?
• 23:29
  When we get five, ten years down the line and we look at We
• 23:34
  engage with one another online with how we establish trust with
• 23:38
  people. It with how we enable people in
• 23:40
  third world countries or countries with a very low
• 23:43
  standard of living to engage in digital economies and
• 23:48
  participate as digital Citizens, We're going to be using
• 23:52
  decentralized technology that leverages blockchain to do that.
• 23:55
  And we're going to look at some of the things happening right
• 23:57
  now, the people who are looking at all the Mastodon servers,
• 24:01
  scratching their head thinking, I know, I'm just going to roll
• 24:03
  the Dyson. Pick one right?
• 24:05
  Those are the people who are at the Vanguard who are going to
• 24:08
  lead the way into this this new way of doing identity.
• 24:12
  So that's that's what I look at this year.
• 24:15
  I am right there with you. I think you know there's a lot
• 24:18
  of uncertainty right now but I also think if you talk to folks
• 24:22
  who work in app Deb and you look at this this approach to devops
• 24:27
  that was verboten. When we look at traditional
• 24:31
  waterfall methodology, you mean you're just going to Automate,
• 24:35
  all the right published test and nobody's going to sit down and
• 24:37
  review it. And now it's standard, right?
• 24:40
  If you're not moving that quickly, you're not keeping up
• 24:42
  and you're not competing and that's when it was new, it was
• 24:46
  scary. It was different.
• 24:47
  People didn't know how to manage it.
• 24:49
  When you were trying to secure it.
• 24:50
  You were at a loss of how you're going to be able to demonstrate
• 24:54
  compliance and security, when the codes already published a
• 24:57
  prod before you even do, they were writing it.
• 25:00
  But now it's already become commonplace and I think we're
• 25:04
  going to see that same pattern but I'm right there with you.
• 25:07
  Jeff. Yeah, we're very early in that
• 25:09
  Jim. What do you think about
• 25:10
  blockchain and sort of its role and where it stands today
• 25:15
  especially? I guess in relation identity is
• 25:17
  probably want to take it. But that's where you want to
• 25:19
  take it. But I actually have a favorite
• 25:21
  comments, where ya know systems yard because I was thinking, you
• 25:25
  know, we had that event back in like 06 or 08 time frame where
• 25:30
  the housing market collapsed and those of us Owned houses at that
• 25:35
  time or maybe were laid off or suffered, some other kind of
• 25:39
  financial catastrophe will never forget that.
• 25:43
  But it's listen to a podcast about a year ago and it just
• 25:46
  burned into my brain because the guy was saying, you know, if you
• 25:51
  have cash, you're stupid, you're stupid, you need to deploy that
• 25:55
  cash because cash is becoming less valuable.
• 25:58
  And you know everything else is going up in price and okay.
• 26:04
  Typically, that's right. But are you going to be the one
• 26:06
  smart enough to jump off the Merry-Go-Round before?
• 26:08
  Start spinning? A thousand miles an hour?
• 26:10
  Another words, because if you were in 06, 07 and had no cash
• 26:16
  and all you had were these assets.
• 26:18
  They collapsed overnight basically and you couldn't get
• 26:22
  out of them. So always have cash, that's what
• 26:26
  I learned through that event. And I think what you're saying
• 26:28
  is that this event that's happening now is going to burn
• 26:33
  something. To the psyches of those people
• 26:35
  we just don't know what to do shot.
• 26:37
  Yeah that's a good way to look at it.
• 26:39
  Jim they yeah yeah so my second point was on big or I'm sorry on
• 26:46
  the blockchain and I was going to go specifically to crypto
• 26:50
  currency and I think the way it's structured right now it's
• 26:57
  like the wild west I mean Bitcoin went from what sixty
• 26:59
  thousand dollars to fifteen thousand dollars in the course
• 27:03
  of a year. Or and that is not a good
• 27:05
  formula for our currency, maybe for a gamble or for a bet, but
• 27:11
  the way it kind of like blew up from nothing to this huge amount
• 27:16
  per coin and back down again. It's just you it's not a good
• 27:21
  store of value. In that case, it's an investment
• 27:24
  maybe but I think for it to become a store value needs more
• 27:28
  stability. So you hear things about maybe
• 27:31
  the government getting control of it, I'm not Sure.
• 27:34
  I'm like 100% on board with that because they do think that one
• 27:38
  of the advantages is that is not run by one government.
• 27:44
  However, I think for it to have a future as a currency it's got
• 27:48
  to be more stable and I think that's probably the path to get
• 27:52
  there. So the last thing in terms of
• 27:56
  the technology rate for identity and wallets and decentralized
• 28:00
  identity, I mean, I'm on board with it.
• 28:03
  I think it's a great good idea. I think people should be in
• 28:06
  control of their identity and shouldn't have to sign up for
• 28:11
  some third party, with their own privacy policy to, you know,
• 28:15
  manage your identity and basically spy on you everywhere
• 28:18
  you go. So that yeah that's my feeling I
• 28:23
  think that's the part that I struggle with though is that is
• 28:27
  so we can say, Okay itself sovereignty but who's running
• 28:30
  that Network, you're still behold into whoever that Network
• 28:33
  holder is is Going to be the government, a private entity,
• 28:36
  some sort of public concern that Jeff please do because I, I want
• 28:41
  an answer. The, the core cutter one of the
• 28:44
  Core Concepts in the blockchain space is the concept of a dow
• 28:49
  that decentralized autonomous organization which isn't a
• 28:54
  network run by somebody. It's a different way of thinking
• 28:59
  and it's it's hard to wrap your head around it.
• 29:02
  When you sit down and say, How is this going to work?
• 29:05
  If nobody's in charge? This is destined to fail.
• 29:08
  This is not going to function and then you see these these
• 29:12
  projects, these experiments working and functioning.
• 29:16
  And they I know I've I've got opinions guys, that go Way
• 29:21
  Beyond Tech. I've got social theory, economic
• 29:24
  theory in and I tie it all together when I look at things
• 29:27
  like this. And I'm also a parent of three
• 29:29
  adult, children, 18, 20 and 22, and I have In the the
• 29:35
  generational differences in what's important to one
• 29:39
  generation versus the next and how they they approach
• 29:43
  problem-solving. Now, I've got, you know books.
• 29:46
  I could talk about that. I've read on the subject that
• 29:49
  really helped me better articulate, the ideas of the
• 29:52
  things that we're seeing in the things I wanted to understand
• 29:54
  more and that notion of a decentralized autonomous
• 29:58
  organization of taking the responsibility of proving that
• 30:03
  you're Jeff and Moving that your gym, improving that the
• 30:06
  transactions that are being executed in your name are
• 30:09
  authorized by you the right person with a distributed Ledger
• 30:15
  technology, we've got kind of this.
• 30:17
  I don't want to call it groupthink, right?
• 30:19
  I'm not orwellian right but but it does change the model
• 30:23
  significantly. And if, if we start doing it, I
• 30:28
  mean, I want to point out Jim that we accept Little green
• 30:34
  pieces of paper here in the US as legal tender, as currency as
• 30:41
  I'm going to give you this piece of paper for that food, or for
• 30:44
  this house, or for this vehicle and you'll accept it.
• 30:49
  There was a time where that that just wasn't the way we did
• 30:52
  things and we introduced the concept of currency.
• 30:55
  We've got central banks and in the system that we have now came
• 30:59
  out of changes in how we interact with one another.
• 31:04
  We're at the cusp of one of those changes based on the
• 31:07
  advances in technology, and what we can do now with technology
• 31:10
  that wasn't even conceivable hundreds of years ago, do I?
• 31:15
  Yeah, I don't want to ramble too much guys, but this this notion
• 31:19
  of decentralized, autonomous organizations can solve that
• 31:24
  problem Jeff, but it's not going to be easy and it's not always
• 31:28
  going to be pretty, but I think we'll get there.
• 31:31
  I'm going to keep an eye out for it.
• 31:32
  I think. I think that's one of the
• 31:33
  biggest Ask questions that me as I couldn't Sumer.
• 31:36
  And as someone sort of in the know, right?
• 31:38
  In the identity side of how this should work, is whose where is
• 31:42
  my day going to be and what? Who's going to have access to
• 31:44
  it. Yeah.
• 31:45
  And I think just kind of understand it's almost like I'm
• 31:47
  gonna go back to my ass down, right?
• 31:48
  Did I pick the right server to join or not?
• 31:50
  I don't know. Alright, let's move along here
• 31:53
  Jim. How about yourself, what is an
• 31:55
  IM thing that 2022 is going to be remembered for?
• 31:59
  So I put this question out on LinkedIn.
• 32:01
  I guess some great feedback from some of our Think listeners of
• 32:05
  the podcast. So Chris and been.
• 32:07
  Kitaj basically said, one was incur careening.
• 32:12
  So three people basically said meeting you and I and getting
• 32:16
  back to in person which I thought those are all really
• 32:20
  love the first question, first answer.
• 32:22
  But, you know, getting back to in person, you know, especially
• 32:25
  like conferences and things like that Jake, and for identity our
• 32:31
  buddy fried enmity, say Said, Jake said, the increase in
• 32:35
  credential related, breaches fries said, so many breaches of
• 32:41
  Australian citizens data and then he put a sad face.
• 32:44
  So what I was going to say is kind of the opposite of those in
• 32:51
  a way because I was going to say what happened to all the
• 32:55
  ransomware attacks, it seemed like 2020 2021, we're just like
• 33:00
  one head. Like every week, we'd have a
• 33:03
  headline. Talk about the 10 million
• 33:05
  dollars in Bitcoin somebody paid out because their company got
• 33:09
  ransomware and I know they're still happening, but they're not
• 33:12
  as front pages they were. I think that I feel pretty safe
• 33:17
  making that argument because I follow information security
• 33:20
  news. And yeah I see them but it's
• 33:22
  usually like oh this this Hospital chain near, you know
• 33:27
  Akron, Ohio got rent, somewhere it and not the maid lied to
• 33:30
  that. That's important.
• 33:32
  But it's not like You know, they do Dr. Ransomware, something
• 33:37
  like that, right? Or some company paid out 40
• 33:40
  million dollars in Bitcoin because they got ransomware
• 33:44
  which we did see happen, I think in 2021.
• 33:47
  So, anyway, that was my answer. How about you doing?
• 33:51
  You know, it's interesting that you bring a transfer because
• 33:53
  when I was thinking about this question, I was like, well,
• 33:55
  ransomware is still a thing. It's still happening.
• 33:58
  And then I got to thinking about all bit more is okay.
• 34:00
  Well why why aren't we talking about it as much?
• 34:03
  And as why is it not making as much news, and I think it's
• 34:06
  because we've got numb to it. It happens with so much
• 34:09
  frequency now that it's just like any other, you know,
• 34:12
  identity data breach. Okay, who got breached this week
• 34:15
  or today? Or thank you very much Capital
• 34:18
  One for telling me that my email again was found on the darknet.
• 34:22
  Of course, it was, as you know, I mean, it was like just so much
• 34:26
  going on, it's like, okay, we've gotten used to it.
• 34:29
  So I don't know if I don't think that.
• 34:30
  I don't think the numbers bear out that there are Less
• 34:34
  ransomware attacks. I think if anything it's the
• 34:35
  same and continues to grow, what I think is the air time, that's
• 34:40
  it's given and the numbness that has a company with it.
• 34:43
  You know, you came also wondering, I'm also wondering if
• 34:46
  companies are defending better. In other words they're blocking
• 34:49
  them more or the attackers are busy doing something else or
• 34:55
  directing their efforts somewhere else.
• 34:56
  And I'm I'm specifically getting at the war in Ukraine.
• 35:00
  So we knew a lot of the attacks were, were em.
• 35:03
  Mating out of Ukraine or Russia and with everything that's going
• 35:08
  on there. With the war I'm wondering if
• 35:10
  that has any kind of influence and, you know, you might be
• 35:13
  right. The numbers might be out, be
• 35:14
  down, but they're not, you know, I don't think that the headline,
• 35:18
  the big ones. So I'm just wondering, well,
• 35:21
  what do you think there is? Yeah, let's have to be C.
• 35:23
  So in the room here, if you're advising somebody like where
• 35:27
  it's what's the stance on ransomware right now?
• 35:30
  Of all the clients I work with nobody's talking about it.
• 35:35
  None of the leaders at the organizations are reading about
• 35:38
  it in the journal, right? Or the times.
• 35:41
  That they're not saying Jared, are we prepared for this now?
• 35:45
  I'm still driving the point home of identity Centric.
• 35:48
  Security, not only creating backups but testing them.
• 35:54
  Don't table. Tops of your BCD are played in
• 35:56
  your incident response plan. I mean that's standard fare with
• 35:59
  every Client, but it's that's a really good point Jim.
• 36:03
  It's not making the news that Business Leaders are reading and
• 36:11
  I think that you're onto something there with also the
• 36:16
  global activity. None of this happens in a
• 36:18
  vacuum. It's all connected and if we had
• 36:22
  folks who were targeting US based companies, who now have
• 36:27
  bigger, priorities, Based on what they're in the midst of
• 36:32
  then that would definitely account for that drop.
• 36:37
  It could not have. It also could be that, you know,
• 36:40
  maybe the West has seen you in a better light by folks who I
• 36:45
  don't know. I mean I don't I'm trying to get
• 36:47
  inside the head but certainly the US and the West has gotten
• 36:50
  behind Ukraine in that situation.
• 36:55
  Yeah. Now it's really insightful
• 36:58
  because it Because I don't have folks asking me about it, and
• 37:02
  I'm not seeing those stories and I'm like you, I've got my Feedly
• 37:06
  that has all the the people I want to follow all the outlets I
• 37:09
  follow. And it's crickets when it comes
• 37:13
  to ransomware and I hadn't even noticed.
• 37:16
  Yes, it's wild. It is interesting.
• 37:18
  How much is faded away as I think is just hasn't gotten as
• 37:20
  much air time. Is it?
• 37:21
  You know, I didn't really think about it from the I guess the
• 37:24
  current, you know, russia-ukraine thing that I
• 37:27
  guess, just like any other business there.
• 37:28
  Are certain number of Horses. And if those resources are tied
• 37:31
  up elsewhere, you know, they've been shipped to a different
• 37:34
  project, right? Exactly.
• 37:37
  Let's see. Okay for myself, I thought about
• 37:40
  this a little bit and I'm going to go back to April when I was
• 37:44
  at RSA and I walked around the show floor and as I go k is the
• 37:49
  year 2020. 20, trust everything, like everything is a zero, trust
• 37:54
  product. Everything has something to do a
• 37:56
  zero trust security and you know we've got to solve folks I have
• 38:00
  to do is buy this one thing that will solve your zero trust, you
• 38:04
  know, issues and you'll be good to go and I feel like it's the
• 38:08
  year that zero trust. Sort of jumped, the Shark People
• 38:11
  kind of got you know got drowned in that marketing of what is
• 38:16
  actually zero trust in the real world and how does it actually
• 38:19
  work and all the various components that actually go into
• 38:22
  a true zero trust Network and it got obfuscated by the identity
• 38:26
  marketing machine of multiple companies out there trying to be
• 38:30
  part of that wave. That's what I'm thinking is for,
• 38:34
  at least for me, what 2022 has been about it.
• 38:37
  Has been the absolute battering of the zero trust name against
• 38:42
  the the altar of marketing. yeah, I do you think Jared I had
• 38:47
  a chance to hear John Kinder bag on a podcast or a webinar
• 38:53
  talking about how the idea that he presented of zero trust what
• 38:58
  over a decade ago is so misunderstood now and he if I
• 39:05
  recall correctly has a somewhat low opinion of the nist special
• 39:10
  publication on zero trust and I've worked with t' teams and
• 39:15
  companies. I've been in advisory roles.
• 39:17
  I've worked with sales teams and I know what it's like quarter to
• 39:21
  quarter when they're trying to win, logos.
• 39:23
  They're trying to close deals time, kills deals.
• 39:26
  So what's the quickest way they can get there?
• 39:28
  They know that this zero trust, buzzword clicks, it resonates
• 39:34
  with business and Tech leaders or it did.
• 39:38
  And so everybody internally would say, okay how do we
• 39:43
  support zero? Trust.
• 39:45
  You know, the message you get from kinder bag, is there is no
• 39:48
  zero trust technology. That's not the point.
• 39:51
  That's not the idea but the marketing teams are saying if we
• 39:55
  can find a way to publish some collateral that says our product
• 40:00
  enables zero trust, then when that executive, who says we need
• 40:04
  zero trust is saying, I will give you budget.
• 40:07
  If you can deploy zero trust, it's getting calls with sales
• 40:13
  teams and then that's closing deals.
• 40:14
  And That's driving that sales marketing conversation.
• 40:17
  I think you're spot on their jet.
• 40:19
  They it's just, it's noise. It's a terrific terrific concept
• 40:26
  and I'm right there with John that, you know, that that
• 40:30
  approach of of locking everything down and then only
• 40:33
  opening up access when you need it is.
• 40:36
  I mean, we used to call a principle of least privilege.
• 40:38
  We even when we deploy Del Parts on the Mainframe back, if I say
• 40:42
  back in the day, I know their shops are still running
• 40:44
  Mainframe. But the notion of an Alp are was
• 40:47
  to create that segregation there.
• 40:50
  These are all ideas or concepts that help you get toward that,
• 40:54
  that Panacea, right of zero trust, but, but yeah, sales and
• 41:00
  marketing is not helping the case.
• 41:03
  Jim. What are your thoughts on zero?
• 41:04
  Trust in my diatribe? I think your drive tribes,
• 41:07
  right? I mean, I think it's like become
• 41:09
  overuse and people are sick of it.
• 41:11
  And when people get sick of it's like, Liberty, A mutual
• 41:15
  commercials, right? It's like, oh no, I hate this
• 41:18
  already, which is quite sad, actually, because I think zero
• 41:24
  trust is one of the most important security architectural
• 41:28
  principles that has come out like during my lifetime.
• 41:33
  I take it makes so much sense but it's the funny part was like
• 41:39
  it's been around for a long time and had no play and then within
• 41:43
  the last two years got Too much play.
• 41:46
  So point that people are sick of hearing about it.
• 41:49
  Don't want to hear about it anymore.
• 41:51
  And and maybe I'm being a little bit too over-the-top here but I
• 41:57
  think that's sad. I think that's a net loss.
• 42:00
  Well maybe it'll be like bell-bottoms, they'll just come
• 42:02
  around again in a few years and you'll be back in style.
• 42:06
  All right, let's go to predictions for 2023.
• 42:11
  Jared you're up first. What's a bold prediction that
• 42:13
  you've got for us in the eye? Iím world for 2023, I think, and
• 42:19
  I'm going to tie a few ideas here.
• 42:22
  But again, this this is where I think we're headed, guys.
• 42:26
  What we're seeing happening right now in Quantum, Computing
• 42:30
  is going to have a downstream impact on how we do identity and
• 42:37
  how the way we approach that idea of the identity Centric
• 42:41
  security is going to be built out, like I just read a story.
• 42:45
  About physicist creating a wormhole, an einstein-rosen
• 42:50
  bridge. I mean this is 1935 is when
• 42:54
  Einstein and Rosen pitched this idea of what we've come to call
• 42:58
  Wormhole technology and the scientist physicist he did.
• 43:02
  It said look, it's the crummiest tiniest Wormhole but it's a
• 43:07
  wormhole. We observe the qubits and we we
• 43:10
  can recreate it, right? It's legit.
• 43:14
  There was a book, I read. Ed some years back by Arthur C.
• 43:17
  Clarke, right, 2001. And Stephen Baxter, co-authored
• 43:22
  this book called the light of other days.
• 43:26
  This book was published something like 20 years ago and
• 43:30
  they present the idea that scientists create Wormhole
• 43:34
  technology. We start leveraging it for
• 43:36
  communication and then they go on to talk about the
• 43:39
  ramifications with Society, economies and such but II had
• 43:45
  Ready earlier this year, been making my rounds at Regional
• 43:49
  conferences and events. Talking about rethinking
• 43:53
  cybersecurity in the quantum age because we're seeing a lot of
• 43:56
  activity with post Quantum cryptography and you know, just
• 44:00
  like I was saying with with blockchain, it's a different way
• 44:03
  of thinking, a different way of approaching the the problem and
• 44:07
  then the solutions to the problem with the the vetting
• 44:12
  that nist has done around post Quantum cryptography.
• 44:15
  Fe algorithms, they've been at it for five years and they've
• 44:18
  been hammering away at these. It's just it's different mats
• 44:23
  like lattice bath mat. It's not very large prime
• 44:26
  numbers anymore. It's changing how we protect
• 44:28
  data at rest and how we protected it Transit.
• 44:31
  And if we're using Quantum Computing for good, cyber
• 44:36
  criminals, with access to Quantum Computing, technology
• 44:40
  are going to be throwing it at data that's been encrypted with
• 44:43
  traditional encryption algorithms.
• 44:45
  And so as we have to figure out, how do we protect data, how do
• 44:49
  we encrypt data? We're we're also trying to think
• 44:53
  of what to what does that CA a Triad mean going forward and do
• 44:59
  we actually have to treat confidential data that we call
• 45:04
  confidential today as confidential in the future
• 45:08
  because if I've got data that I'm encrypting with 1020, bit
• 45:13
  RSA key. Quantum computer with reasonable
• 45:18
  error-free qubits. That is able to turn through.
• 45:22
  Very large data sets. Very quickly is going to crack
• 45:25
  that in minutes, a 2048 key. Which if you are listening, sisa
• 45:31
  has a post Quantum cryptography roadmap bare, minimum bump your
• 45:36
  keys up to 2048 because it buys you more time.
• 45:40
  It's going to take a little more time to crack those keys, but
• 45:43
  that data we're not going to be able.
• 45:45
  Able to protect it and the way that we protect it today and if
• 45:48
  I go back to my comments about blockchain, if we had a
• 45:52
  technology that I could publish my social, my nine digit social
• 45:57
  security number in plain text and say this does not have to be
• 46:02
  confidential data anymore. We don't have to encrypt it.
• 46:04
  We don't have to protect it because what I'm doing through
• 46:08
  decentralized, identity and through blockchain enabled
• 46:11
  technology. So the automation enabled
• 46:13
  through the compute Power Within Blockchain deployment.
• 46:18
  That's the right word for it. I can control when people use my
• 46:24
  social, when somebody wants to run credit, when somebody goes
• 46:28
  to apply for unemployment. When somebody goes to take out a
• 46:31
  loan at that moment at that point in time the combination of
• 46:37
  web three blockchain based technology and I think we're
• 46:39
  still going to see this blend of web to web three.
• 46:43
  Right? That the way we use Tech to Day
• 46:45
  internet-based Technologies. If I can at that point in time.
• 46:49
  Get a notification Jared do I have your permission to take
• 46:52
  this action and I can provide that validation that yes I'm
• 46:56
  Jared. And yes I said it's okay.
• 46:59
  All these processes we have around freezing enough reason
• 47:02
  credit at about the the car dealership running your credit
• 47:07
  against all three agencies. When you want to drive a car off
• 47:10
  the lot, it changes. And so I think that The quantum
• 47:17
  post Quantum impact on encryption technology, and
• 47:21
  communication technology, because there's a lot of impact
• 47:24
  in the iot space is going to drive development for these
• 47:28
  people in, this is again that convergence people who have this
• 47:32
  window of time to say, look, I'm passionate about this, I grew up
• 47:36
  in a world where I don't know what the future is going to look
• 47:40
  like, right? I don't have a lot of certainty
• 47:42
  of whether or not I'm going to be able to pay rent or whether
• 47:44
  or not I'm going To have the job that I'm in now who will sit
• 47:49
  down and start putting together solutions that are not
• 47:52
  profit-driven, they're driven by the opportunity to better
• 47:58
  society. And it's it's like the
• 48:00
  open-source Revolution all over again.
• 48:04
  But but with with a with this blockchain Centric technology.
• 48:09
  So I really think that what we see in Quantum is going to have
• 48:12
  that impact on different. Ease of doing things so that we
• 48:16
  don't have to protect all the data that we protected.
• 48:19
  A now it's not going to address everything.
• 48:21
  If I look at military operations and I look at encrypted data,
• 48:26
  that talks about informants and contacts that data will have
• 48:31
  value forever because once that need is decrypted, the if
• 48:35
  there's a regime, if there's a ruling power that has a grudge
• 48:41
  and they went to take it out on the people who supported their
• 48:43
  adversary, then Then they'll wait and that.
• 48:48
  I do have a quick answer for that one, and that to me, is the
• 48:50
  bigger scarier thing because that's loss of life, right?
• 48:53
  That's that's a whole different ball.
• 48:55
  Game than credit cards are socials, but there's a whole lot
• 48:59
  of data that we are just. We're putting a lot of time and
• 49:03
  money and effort into keeping secret into pretending that
• 49:07
  nobody else is going to see it until we have another data
• 49:10
  breach story in. Oh we had the OPM hack, we have
• 49:13
  the solarwinds weird, Okay, so many Exposures where we just
• 49:18
  have to solve the problem with different thinking and I think
• 49:23
  Quantum is going to drive Block Chain, which is going to drive
• 49:26
  some of that that generational shift you shift, you probably
• 49:31
  heard that the saying, hard times, you know, this is sexist,
• 49:37
  but I'm using like, like, quote from the guy who said it hard
• 49:40
  times, create strong men, strong men, create Good Times.
• 49:45
  Good Times. Create weak men and weak men.
• 49:48
  Create, what is it hard to our times?
• 49:52
  Yeah, so you've got this this generational cycle and a couple
• 49:56
  of the books, I've read the fourth turning, which is how in
• 50:00
  Strauss they approached it. From a historian perspective,
• 50:05
  generational Theory and and looking at how one generation to
• 50:09
  the next influences, things like technology.
• 50:12
  And when I saw Ray dalio, Principles for dealing with a
• 50:18
  changing World Order where he did it from an economists
• 50:21
  perspective and a Leo's Bridgewater, right?
• 50:25
  Incredibly successful hedge fund, 40 years in that space and
• 50:29
  he landed on that same pattern of these different generations
• 50:34
  and that's the other other concept that that's converging
• 50:38
  here. Is why we see advances in
• 50:40
  Quantum, we see blockchain technology kind of finding
• 50:44
  legitimate use case. Has and people who understand
• 50:47
  the full potential. You've also got an entire
• 50:49
  generation of people who are looking at.
• 50:52
  Their Futures saying I would rather build something that's
• 50:55
  going to make life better for people around me, then make a
• 50:59
  profit. I don't want to be a
• 51:01
  billionaire. I don't even necessarily want to
• 51:03
  be a millionaire. I want enough money to take care
• 51:05
  of me in my own and then I want to put this thing out in the
• 51:08
  world that's going to make everybody's life better even
• 51:10
  people. I will never meet and as all
• 51:12
  these things come together, you're going.
• 51:15
  Find identity makes that happen. Because without that notion of
• 51:20
  decentralized identity, we can't participate in these digital
• 51:24
  economies, we can't participate in these processes and so it to
• 51:28
  me, it's I know that's a long-winded.
• 51:30
  I appreciate you guys got to sit here and just some thoughts on.
• 51:35
  Yeah. Thoughts on the as you talk
• 51:37
  about post Quantum and pre Quantum, my concern is well I
• 51:43
  guess it depends on how you define those but But my concern
• 51:46
  is that in between it's where there's some Quantum and others
• 51:50
  that are non Quantum and if there's commercially based
• 51:52
  quantum computers, but a lot of people, a lot of organizations
• 51:57
  are still running non-count quantum computers and you end up
• 52:01
  in this in-between, right? You've got every phone in the
• 52:05
  world is all of a sudden not capable of encrypting his data.
• 52:10
  Well enough to stop those with the quantum computer, here's
• 52:15
  where I want. I need to go with this because
• 52:18
  That. Potentially has major societal
• 52:23
  impact in terms of it could erode trust in technology, very
• 52:28
  quickly where that's what currency is based on, is based
• 52:35
  on trust, it's based on the that if you give me that paper for
• 52:38
  that, for the food I gave you, I can turn around and give that
• 52:42
  paper to somebody else and get something else that I need.
• 52:45
  Right. And whether it's cryptocurrency
• 52:48
  or paper currency or Or you know, some numbers on the
• 52:51
  screen, there's a trust factor involved.
• 52:54
  Now, all of a sudden, the computer World goes to hell in a
• 52:57
  handbasket. All the data is being broken.
• 53:01
  That, that's my concern is that in-between stage, and it feels
• 53:06
  like that's got to come, right? It's not like every computer at
• 53:10
  the flip of a switch has all going to become Quantum, and
• 53:13
  that's a really good College gym.
• 53:16
  And one thing I'll share when I started digging into quantum.
• 53:20
  Shooting what it means to actually use it.
• 53:22
  One of the things that I learned is that while quantum computers
• 53:26
  are great at tackling, very large data sets their garbage,
• 53:30
  when it comes to watching videos on YouTube.
• 53:33
  You do not want a Quantum phone so I don't know that we're going
• 53:37
  to see a Tipping Point where where we suddenly, everything
• 53:40
  has to be Quantum, but I think that that period of time where
• 53:45
  we've got traditional digital, you know, ones and zeros.
• 53:50
  Pewters they're still used for them and it's not going to
• 53:54
  change, it's not going to go away.
• 53:56
  But in this this subset where we've got 10s and then ones and
• 54:01
  zeros at the same time, the whole notion of superposition of
• 54:03
  quantum Computing is going to have a very specific use case
• 54:07
  and we're going to see. I mean threat actors will use it
• 54:10
  to try to decrypt data but as we have security vendors, who are
• 54:16
  pulling in more and more data for logging and monitoring to
• 54:19
  try to determine What normal looks like and can we detect a
• 54:22
  threat actor the ability to go through that data and very
• 54:25
  quickly make a decision. Yes, this this is somebody using
• 54:29
  Jeff's account. He's not in North Korea right
• 54:32
  now, trying to log into his Office 365 account the the speed
• 54:37
  at which they'll be able to identify and respond in the
• 54:40
  accuracy with which will be able to do that.
• 54:42
  But that's a very specific use case for Quantum but I really
• 54:45
  think the decryption is the one that has everybody's attention
• 54:48
  but I don't think We're going to see it on smartphones and I
• 54:52
  thought the same thing until I'll see if I can find the video
• 54:55
  and share the link with your Jeff.
• 54:57
  You can put in the show notes of a scientist in Finland, who
• 55:03
  knows, a hell of a lot more about Quantum than I ever will
• 55:07
  and he laid it out pretty simply.
• 55:08
  And I set back and said hi. Okay, that makes sense, I get it
• 55:12
  now, I hear your point. They just I'm sorry.
• 55:15
  Jeff one last Point. Don't even get me started all in
• 55:18
  artificial intelligence and Fakes and the fact that I can
• 55:22
  throw a random sentence into dolly or Dolly to and have it
• 55:28
  generate all this AI art that has the art community Shook and
• 55:33
  we're going to see, you can use AI to do copywriting which has
• 55:36
  the marketing Community wondering, am I going to have a
• 55:39
  job? If they can replace me with this
• 55:42
  this website that rates better copy than I do and your notion
• 55:47
  of? Yeah we need that trust.
• 55:50
  We don't even know when we're on LinkedIn and we're looking to
• 55:52
  profile pictures if that's a real person or not because a lot
• 55:55
  of the The Fakes on LinkedIn, Rai generated profile pics.
• 56:00
  And so yeah. There's there's a lot a lot that
• 56:03
  you said there about trust that we could go a lot deeper into
• 56:07
  that. I I got sad and scared when you
• 56:10
  were talking early on Jared. And here's why you talked about,
• 56:13
  okay? I'm going to be able to control
• 56:15
  when you know where my data is being used and how it's going to
• 56:19
  be used. And and you get notified when
• 56:21
  someone's using it for a loan above LA.
• 56:24
  And I immediately went to we already have that problem today
• 56:28
  with MFA and I say fatigue getting spammed with text
• 56:32
  messages, push notifications, you know whatever it may be and
• 56:36
  it's a it's it's a known thing at this point where, you know,
• 56:40
  if you if you send enough, you know faulty, you know or bad bad
• 56:44
  a second Factor requests, someone will press OK on it.
• 56:50
  And I got thinking about that too, is like oh no.
• 56:52
  Here we go again, I'm going to get spammed with.
• 56:54
  Hey your SSN was used here by blah blah or hey you know I do
• 56:58
  you want to connect to this bank account its going to come come
• 57:00
  come come come through and there will be a certain set of the
• 57:03
  population that at some point just to make their to stop the
• 57:06
  headache will hit. Yeah.
• 57:08
  Okay. It's either because they don't
• 57:10
  know, no, you know, better or not and I'm sure there will be
• 57:13
  hopefully better safeguards in that spot.
• 57:15
  But I was sad there for a moment.
• 57:17
  No, that's it's a good point. Jeff.
• 57:20
  I mean, anybody can go out to sign up for a Google Voice
• 57:23
  number and then they don't have to work hard to spoof.
• 57:25
  They have a legitimate Voice number that they can use to send
• 57:29
  texts and pretend to be somebody else.
• 57:32
  What I'm hoping. And, and I firmly believe that
• 57:36
  someone will solve this problem. Is that the, the verification
• 57:40
  that the person I'm interacting with this really who, I think
• 57:42
  they are. We can solve that with this
• 57:46
  distributed Ledger. If there are enough enough
• 57:48
  sources that Say yeah, this is really Jeff and this is really
• 57:52
  Jim and and that's who's talking to who, then we don't have fake
• 57:56
  profiles and we don't have MFA notices coming from somebody
• 58:01
  that we didn't allow. And I know that's not the whole
• 58:06
  problem, the notion of who can trigger the request on the
• 58:08
  Chain. If we have people who understand
• 58:12
  this a lot better than I do in the weeds building, a
• 58:15
  decentralized application, that has that trust built in from the
• 58:19
  Core from from the ground up, right?
• 58:22
  And that get to that it's not zero trust, maybe it's true
• 58:26
  trust right? I'm here patent pending we need
• 58:29
  a powder yeah we better neighborhood - Frost or but then
• 58:33
  we can build that and and I say that because if you look at what
• 58:38
  computers used to look like in the 50s where they took up
• 58:43
  entire floors of Metropolitan Office Buildings.
• 58:48
  And now I've got Computer that has access all over the world
• 58:52
  that fits in the palm of my hand.
• 58:54
  We solve that problem. I say we people smarter than me,
• 58:58
  solve that problem. It took them a minute.
• 59:00
  It took a lot of trial and error, but they solved it.
• 59:03
  And the problem that you're identifying right now needs to
• 59:07
  be at the top of the list, right?
• 59:08
  This is a use case. We need trust to ensure that
• 59:11
  people can't exploit the MFA fatigue attack that they can't
• 59:16
  abuse this system that decentralized.
• 59:19
  Identity really proves who we are to one another and if they
• 59:24
  build it in from the ground up, then it may take a couple of
• 59:27
  decades but we'll get there and we're seeing it right now.
• 59:31
  We're seeing the cusp of it. So we're running long but I'm
• 59:35
  enjoying the conversations, we're going to keep going and I
• 59:38
  went a little programming note. We are actually are heard in the
• 59:41
  Republic of Korea. We actually have listeners
• 59:44
  there, so, which is absolutely crazy for our podcast.
• 59:47
  Jim. What is Your prediction, you're
• 59:51
  bold prediction for 2012. Sorry was I Daddy.
• 59:54
  I want to start with the fact that that post that talked about
• 59:58
  David Stromer responded to his prediction was decentralized ID
• 1:00:04
  as well as verifiable credentials.
• 1:00:07
  He's in the banking industry and he's looking at look it really
• 1:00:10
  comes down to trust. So everything that Jr.'s
• 1:00:13
  been talking about I think is right up the alley of what David
• 1:00:18
  brought up. So I think we talked about at
• 1:00:19
  that enough. I'm going to go on the more
• 1:00:22
  tactical, end of the spectrum, Jake and fried entity were
• 1:00:27
  thinking the same thing as me, which is this is the year of
• 1:00:31
  Paso Robles. I know that sounds like what a
• 1:00:33
  big bold prediction but that a few conferences this year and
• 1:00:37
  that was the soup du jour. But also I started to hearing a
• 1:00:42
  lot of presentations from actual companies who are implementing
• 1:00:45
  it now, they seem like companies that were more on the Edge of
• 1:00:50
  Technology more on The Cutting Edge of identity but I think
• 1:00:53
  what you're going to see is that it becomes more commonplace and
• 1:00:57
  two reasons why I think if you are already doing MFA, it's kind
• 1:01:03
  of the next step, in terms of giving a better user experience
• 1:01:07
  to your end user. And even if you're not or if you
• 1:01:11
  are either way, what value does the password really?
• 1:01:16
  Add in a multi-factor authentication.
• 1:01:19
  I mean, if you're doing a biometric, what is, what is the
• 1:01:23
  password, add to that? In fact, I think, when you've
• 1:01:26
  really inspect what the password does to the chain, in terms of
• 1:01:30
  the quote, unquote unhappy path, which I talk about it all the
• 1:01:33
  time. It's you have to have some way
• 1:01:36
  for people to unlock the password or maybe use the
• 1:01:39
  password as some form of, you know, hey, I don't have my
• 1:01:42
  biometric but I know my password.
• 1:01:45
  So maybe you are who you say? You say you are I just don't
• 1:01:48
  think the password adds value to the chain anymore.
• 1:01:51
  And so I think that people are absorbing that I think not.
• 1:01:56
  Everything's going to be pastoralist next year but I
• 1:01:59
  think you're going to see the wave grow significantly Jared
• 1:02:03
  when it comes to your perspective on Pastor.
• 1:02:04
  That's where do you stand right now.
• 1:02:07
  Love it to death. It's a guy's eye when I'm
• 1:02:11
  talking about passwords, I go back to Monty Python and the
• 1:02:13
  Holy Grail in the French Connecticut.
• 1:02:16
  John Cleese Standing On Top yelling, what's your password?
• 1:02:19
  And it that the back and forth, that's literally, the technology
• 1:02:24
  that we're using today, we've just implemented it with ones
• 1:02:26
  and zeros. Instead of two people yelling
• 1:02:29
  back and forth, over a castle wall.
• 1:02:31
  The, the big concern I have, when I look at password, listen
• 1:02:37
  and this is a little offshoot is From a legal perspective.
• 1:02:44
  When we talk about authenticating two devices, we
• 1:02:46
  talked about Biometrics, we talked about, you know, taking
• 1:02:50
  the password out of the mix, we still have a challenge in the US
• 1:02:54
  with the court system, understanding the application of
• 1:02:58
  the Fourth Amendment when it comes to technology.
• 1:03:01
  So I'm a full disclosure paid member supporter of the
• 1:03:06
  Electronic Frontier Foundation, absolutely believe in the
• 1:03:09
  mission of that organization. And and In the work that they're
• 1:03:12
  doing. And when I look at cases where
• 1:03:18
  an individual might be asked to turn over to Vice or to Grant
• 1:03:22
  access to something that the current law.
• 1:03:25
  The ruling precedent, I should say is that you can't be forced
• 1:03:30
  to tell somebody your password, but you can be forced to hold
• 1:03:33
  your finger to a fingerprint reader to unlock something and
• 1:03:37
  that's fundamentally. It's the same principle that
• 1:03:41
  there. A lock and I have the authority
• 1:03:43
  to either unlock or lock that lock to Grant access to whatever
• 1:03:48
  is on the other side. And if we go full-on password
• 1:03:51
  list without resolving the legal issues, we are going to have
• 1:03:54
  cases where people are turning over information that they don't
• 1:03:58
  want to turn over that, they're not legally obligated to turn
• 1:04:01
  over, but it's being interpreted, like that in a
• 1:04:04
  court of law. I just want to see that figured
• 1:04:07
  out. I have a, one of my former
• 1:04:10
  neighbors is a Defense lawyer and I asked him about a
• 1:04:13
  point-blank. I'm like how if if a and b are
• 1:04:16
  the same thing. It's just a different
• 1:04:17
  implementation, the same technology than why is it
• 1:04:21
  interpreted for differently. And it's the answer to me was
• 1:04:24
  well it's because whoever argued the case, the one attorney did a
• 1:04:29
  better job than the other that terrifies me guys.
• 1:04:32
  But yeah, that's my one. Hesitation my one concerned
• 1:04:36
  about going full-on. Password list is the legal side
• 1:04:38
  of it. Yeah, that is an interesting
• 1:04:41
  point. I think, yeah, I mean, how
• 1:04:43
  quickly will laws of the land, catch up to technology, they're
• 1:04:46
  notoriously behind, right? Yeah, I think that would scare
• 1:04:50
  off, you know, some folks from thinking about that perspective
• 1:04:52
  as okay. Well, you know, if we're really
• 1:04:55
  trying to provide the best security, you could make the
• 1:04:57
  argument that password lists based on that interpretation of
• 1:05:00
  the law, lowers your security. Yeah, which is absolutely
• 1:05:05
  asinine in my head but that's where we are today.
• 1:05:08
  I think it's going to A very ugly, very uncomfortable court
• 1:05:12
  case and nobody wants to volunteer to be the defender in
• 1:05:15
  that case. Nobody wants to be on the
• 1:05:17
  defense of of setting that precedent.
• 1:05:21
  But I think that's what's going to need to happen in order for
• 1:05:23
  us to land on a better understanding.
• 1:05:27
  Alright, so here's my bold prediction for 2023 on identity,
• 1:05:31
  I went completely the opposite way of both.
• 1:05:33
  You guys I think it's going to be a year where we go back to
• 1:05:37
  basics a bit more. Fundamentals.
• 1:05:41
  When it comes to access management identity governance,
• 1:05:45
  privileged access, I think we're going to see a lot of
• 1:05:48
  organizations really taking stock of their core identity and
• 1:05:51
  access management use cases, capabilities, and Technologies
• 1:05:57
  and going back and really nailing those fundamentals
• 1:05:59
  better than maybe they have in the past.
• 1:06:01
  I think part of that's going to be driven by the economy.
• 1:06:03
  I don't think there's going to be, I think we're seeing a
• 1:06:05
  pullback at least on the US side.
• 1:06:06
  So I think there's going to be a question to to say hi.
• 1:06:09
  We do more with less or do better with what we have already
• 1:06:15
  and try to button up some of those holes.
• 1:06:16
  So the way I see it is I think I think we'll see more companies
• 1:06:20
  really getting back to the basics a little bit.
• 1:06:23
  Maybe they've been distracted over the last few years with
• 1:06:25
  things like zero. Trust.
• 1:06:28
  Yeah or analytics or a I right or things like that.
• 1:06:32
  And there I think they will have gone through this process where
• 1:06:35
  there's like, oh yeah we bought this thing and we can't you
• 1:06:37
  really use it the way we thought because we In do this, other
• 1:06:40
  really important thing first, we didn't solve our data quality
• 1:06:43
  issue, or we didn't actually fix our business process to align
• 1:06:48
  with the way that our tools work where the way we want them to
• 1:06:50
  work at things like that. So I think it'll be, you know,
• 1:06:53
  Going Back to Basics and and figuring out how to get those
• 1:06:58
  done first. And I think that's a good thing
• 1:07:00
  because I think we continue. I need to go back and review
• 1:07:03
  things and not just sit on our Laurels and say, okay, well we
• 1:07:06
  saw that problem five years ago so that's good.
• 1:07:08
  Things have changed. Changed and there, probably
• 1:07:10
  needs to be a little re-architecting of process.
• 1:07:13
  Maybe people, maybe technology right to modernize and move with
• 1:07:18
  the times and catch back up, and then that sets you up for the
• 1:07:21
  next cycle of, okay, well, we're comfortable where we are now.
• 1:07:24
  What's next? Let's go to XYZ, whatever the
• 1:07:27
  ends up being blockchain Quantum voice, Biometrics decentralized,
• 1:07:32
  you know, Identity or salsa or identity, right?
• 1:07:35
  Or things like that. So that's where I think things
• 1:07:37
  are headed. I don't know.
• 1:07:39
  Jim. You and I we work a lot
• 1:07:40
  together. You know, what do you think
• 1:07:42
  about what I'm thinking is my bold prediction of of going back
• 1:07:46
  now to the Stone Age but going back to the basics, namely
• 1:07:48
  knows, I mean, it makes sense, especially given the economic
• 1:07:56
  premise that you put forth. That companies are going to be
• 1:07:59
  strapped for money potentially if that if that plays out
• 1:08:02
  because I don't think that's a guarantee people calling for a
• 1:08:06
  recession recession. A lot of times when that's
• 1:08:09
  Nobody's saying there's going to be a recession that's when the
• 1:08:11
  recession doesn't happen. So, and by the way, I'm not
• 1:08:14
  telling people to keep saying that.
• 1:08:16
  Yeah yeah, yeah, go for it. But in that context and
• 1:08:21
  companies do with what what, you know, I need to make myself
• 1:08:26
  valuable around here. What am I going to do?
• 1:08:28
  The thing that I think hurts that perspective Chef?
• 1:08:33
  Is that I think the demand for cybersecurity talent definitely
• 1:08:39
  outweighs what's available today.
• 1:08:42
  And I think that, you know, a lot of folks are in their roles
• 1:08:47
  and I am or nor and kind of stretch Each opportunities which
• 1:08:51
  isn't a bad thing. I mean we've all been there, but
• 1:08:54
  it makes it hard to know what to do to kind of get back to
• 1:08:58
  fundamentals when you you're like new to the position, right?
• 1:09:01
  I think so. Yeah, I think that's where, you
• 1:09:04
  know, the community comes together, right?
• 1:09:07
  And, you know, I'll point to ID Pro, which is a great community
• 1:09:10
  of identity people. The very healthy slack channel
• 1:09:12
  that exists where people can drop in and ask questions and
• 1:09:16
  things like that. I think we benefit from a time
• 1:09:19
  where Where there is so much more information.
• 1:09:23
  As of right now, today around identity and how to get things
• 1:09:27
  done. Then there was this time of year
• 1:09:29
  ago and expect exponentially more than, you know, years and
• 1:09:32
  years and years ago, as people have gotten into this.
• 1:09:35
  You could pop up a YouTube video about anything.
• 1:09:38
  And look on any topic, right, we basically have gone into the
• 1:09:40
  Matrix where, you know, Neal learns come to, yeah, right.
• 1:09:45
  You're downloading things. The same thing.
• 1:09:47
  Like, I'm pulling up the skill right away and I'm seeing how
• 1:09:50
  it's done. It's a little micro training.
• 1:09:52
  Ali. So I think, I think, I think
• 1:09:54
  you're right and that there will be people who, you know, maybe
• 1:09:57
  don't have that experience, but I think they benefit also from
• 1:10:00
  the people who came before them and the contribution to the body
• 1:10:03
  of knowledge that exists as a whole from society.
• 1:10:06
  Specifically identity, you know, jarrod's doing LinkedIn and
• 1:10:09
  training and other things. We're doing this podcast, right?
• 1:10:13
  Our friend Andrew is doing videos on YouTube and he's also
• 1:10:16
  doing LinkedIn learning stuff. So there's just so much more
• 1:10:19
  content out there. Now that I feel like it's easier
• 1:10:21
  to catch up. What's missing from that
• 1:10:24
  content, though? And this goes back to earlier,
• 1:10:26
  Jerry you're saying is the soft skills.
• 1:10:28
  Is, you can be the smartest person, we're all.
• 1:10:30
  But you can't, if you can't articulate what it is, you're
• 1:10:33
  trying to do nothing's going to happen.
• 1:10:35
  So I think I think there's a yin and yang to it.
• 1:10:38
  Yeah, if you're trying to get people to stay in, for the Long
• 1:10:42
  Haul to build out a healthy identity program, convincing
• 1:10:48
  them that, it's not all going to happen overnight that it's going
• 1:10:51
  to be, you know, In some cases, you talk about role-based access
• 1:10:55
  controls, if you large Enterprise in, you're deploying
• 1:10:58
  technology that even if it's leveraging AI to go through or
• 1:11:01
  machine learning and turn through all that data, to help
• 1:11:04
  you arrive more quickly at what that are Beck program.
• 1:11:07
  A break program might look like it's still going to take a
• 1:11:10
  minute and keeping people interested.
• 1:11:13
  Keeping people, excited is not. You can't do it with stats.
• 1:11:18
  You can't deal with numbers but I really do like the notion
• 1:11:22
  Jeff. One.
• 1:11:24
  If you combine the ID Pro Community with the identity to
• 1:11:27
  find security Alliance, which is more vendor driven, vendor
• 1:11:30
  Centric, I think the resources between those two organizations
• 1:11:34
  for identity professionals, if you never set in the seat
• 1:11:38
  before, and your boss comes to you and says guess what?
• 1:11:42
  You're the identity person figure it out.
• 1:11:45
  You've got a world of knowledge and people hungry to share with
• 1:11:49
  you right there between those two, those Those two groups, but
• 1:11:54
  I also love the the notion of fundamentals fundamentals when
• 1:11:58
  the day anybody who's read the book Moneyball knows that, you
• 1:12:01
  know, you don't have to hit a home run every time you're up to
• 1:12:04
  bat, you just got to get on base.
• 1:12:06
  You get enough enough? Folks who understand the
• 1:12:08
  fundamentals and could keep that that machine moving forward,
• 1:12:12
  then you're staying ahead of the people who do you harm?
• 1:12:15
  You're staying ahead of The Accidental incidents that result
• 1:12:20
  in harm or disruption to the business.
• 1:12:23
  Yeah fundamentals I hope you're right on that man.
• 1:12:25
  I really do i-i'll talk about Quantum in all the kind of far
• 1:12:31
  out years out. I think there's still a critical
• 1:12:34
  need for people to be focusing on Innovation.
• 1:12:37
  But you know, you've if everybody is focused on
• 1:12:40
  Innovation and nobody's focusing on fundamentals, will never get
• 1:12:43
  there, right? Because things are all going to
• 1:12:45
  fall apart before then. All right, I think we've set a
• 1:12:50
  record officially for our longest episode ever.
• 1:12:52
  So we're going to start to wrap things up.
• 1:12:55
  We're going to end on a lighter note, as we always do, but we'll
• 1:12:58
  try to keep it brief if we can and we're going to stay with the
• 1:13:01
  predictions. So what is your non-identity
• 1:13:05
  related prediction for 2023? Jared you go first.
• 1:13:09
  All right, I've got to number one.
• 1:13:12
  I predicted people who listen to this podcast.
• 1:13:14
  We're going to reach out to me on LinkedIn and keep the
• 1:13:16
  conversation going. So let's see how accurate I am
• 1:13:21
  on that one. I will have a LinkedIn in our
• 1:13:23
  show notes so people will make it a lot bigger people.
• 1:13:25
  I really appreciate that, but I'm a big movie buff.
• 1:13:30
  I, you know, you can look me up on IMDb I, that's a whole nother
• 1:13:35
  story. The number of screenplays are
• 1:13:36
  written, the number of shorts that I've shot.
• 1:13:38
  I'm actually in a feature on to be it's bong of the Living Dead.
• 1:13:45
  It's a zombie Stoner comedy, that was Shot here in Columbus
• 1:13:48
  Ohio. I'm a Zombie.
• 1:13:50
  See if you can pick me up, but my other prediction is
• 1:13:54
  movie-related. I predict that people who go see
• 1:13:58
  Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and theaters are going to be crying
• 1:14:01
  like babies before that movie, stun.
• 1:14:04
  Really think that James Gunn is he's brilliant.
• 1:14:08
  He knows that he and Tycho with TD are two of my favorite story,
• 1:14:10
  tellers. And I think with, with this
• 1:14:13
  culmination of the Guardian story that it's going to tug on,
• 1:14:17
  Heartstrings in a way that people aren't ready for.
• 1:14:19
  That's my prediction. All right, well, I'm prepared
• 1:14:21
  for that. I'm a garden is Galaxy fan and I
• 1:14:23
  love taika waititi and is his take on the Marvel Universe.
• 1:14:26
  I think Thor 11 Thunder and yeah.
• 1:14:28
  Thor Ragnarok are two of my favorites because they don't get
• 1:14:31
  serious. It's just fun movies.
• 1:14:34
  All right, Jim. How about yourself, what's your
• 1:14:36
  non-identity prediction for 23? Well, I'm going to make a
• 1:14:40
  prediction about the identity at the center podcast.
• 1:14:43
  We had a double up on our listenership this year.
• 1:14:46
  I'm going to predict from They're double up.
• 1:14:48
  So we won't know if I was right until the end of 2023.
• 1:14:52
  But I mean I think we're, you know, we're getting great guests
• 1:14:55
  like Jared and, you know, we're being consistent, putting out
• 1:14:59
  episodes every week and people seem to appreciate it.
• 1:15:03
  So, you know, as they spread the word I think it happens.
• 1:15:07
  What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I hope you're
• 1:15:09
  right. I think, you know, people
• 1:15:11
  sharing it, following it subscribing to it, you know, as
• 1:15:13
  all good stuff, you know, being just part of the, I think the
• 1:15:16
  little kind of Unity that we've built here together.
• 1:15:19
  I think it's been a lot of fun. So you know we certainly have
• 1:15:22
  met listeners and those have been opened, you know, super
• 1:15:24
  positive experiences and got to do some interesting things,
• 1:15:28
  maybe in Las Vegas together, which was something that we will
• 1:15:31
  talk about on the podcast. But if you were there, you know
• 1:15:33
  exactly what we're talking about.
• 1:15:35
  So yeah, I mean, hopefully that'll kill continue to roll.
• 1:15:37
  Will keep doing it for as long as we're having fun, doing it.
• 1:15:40
  And we'll try to keep it as true to home as we can and not make
• 1:15:44
  it a commercial for any anything and kind of a vendor neutral.
• 1:15:46
  Safe place. The goal here.
• 1:15:49
  Mine is somewhat selfish. I'm going to say here that in 23
• 1:15:54
  2023. The Cubs are going to beat the
• 1:15:57
  Cardinals when they play in London during June of twenty
• 1:16:00
  twenty-three because I actually have tickets to the game one of
• 1:16:03
  the games there and I'm planning on being in London for watching
• 1:16:05
  one of those games. So I'm hopeful that my Chicago
• 1:16:08
  Cubs will beat the Cardinals at least one of those games.
• 1:16:11
  Hopefully, what I'm at Cubs have not been good.
• 1:16:14
  The last couple of years, we are still celebrating the world.
• 1:16:17
  Series from several years back. I think they've, you know, if
• 1:16:21
  that's that's totally been fine for a lot of people, but I'm
• 1:16:24
  expecting a Cubs Victory when I attend the game Inland.
• 1:16:27
  So that's my prediction. All right.
• 1:16:30
  We're officially an hour and 15 are longest Episode.
• 1:16:33
  By far, we're going to go ahead and wrap it up for this week and
• 1:16:36
  probably this year as well. So I want to thank everyone
• 1:16:40
  who's been part of this journey with us.
• 1:16:42
  Listening, we're on the web identity, the center.com, or on
• 1:16:45
  Twitter so far idac. Guests, who knows, maybe 23 will
• 1:16:49
  bring a mastodon account of some sort.
• 1:16:51
  Maybe we'll be over there but we're looking forward to
• 1:16:54
  connecting with Folks at conferences that will be at over
• 1:16:57
  the next year. I Denver's Gartner probably
• 1:17:00
  other ones that I'm missing and not just thinking about the
• 1:17:02
  moment but those are the two ones that come to my mind.
• 1:17:05
  And if you have ideas and comments for the show, hit us up
• 1:17:07
  on LinkedIn to show do to be chock full of stuff for this
• 1:17:11
  one. We'll have Jared's LinkedIn,
• 1:17:12
  will have the LinkedIn learning sort of playlist that also
• 1:17:15
  includes Jared stuff. Links to identify verse Gartner,
• 1:17:19
  Jim. And I and I'm sure a bunch of
• 1:17:21
  stuff that I forget right now. So with that, we're going to go
• 1:17:23
  ahead and leave it. Thanks everyone for listening
• 1:17:26
  and we'll talk with you all in the next one.
• 1:17:32
  Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast.
• 1:17:35
  If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and
• 1:17:37
  visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.