Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1082 - The Sunday (or Anyday) Roast

Transcript

#1082 - The Sunday (or Anyday) Roast · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:04
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
0:07
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
0:10
Speaker 2: wants answers Now.
0:14
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago on the Happy Family Podcast,
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Speaker 1: we did an episode about dad jokes and the importance
0:18
Speaker 1: of humor and family life. Then last week we looked
0:22
Speaker 1: at some research that has come out on our Doctor's
0:25
Speaker 1: Desk episode that showed the parents who use humor have
0:29
Speaker 1: better relationships with their kids. And Kylie, you raised an
0:33
Speaker 1: interesting point, and that is that humor doesn't always work.
0:35
Speaker 1: You were raised in the home where there was on
0:37
Speaker 1: a lot of humor, but one of those reasons is
0:39
Speaker 1: because you come from a home where people tend to
0:42
Speaker 1: take everything quite seriously, and if somebody was to say
0:44
Speaker 1: something with the hint of sarcasm, if somebody was to
0:47
Speaker 1: say something that was a little bit roast oriented, it
0:52
Speaker 1: would not go down world. It could cause some family
0:55
Speaker 1: relationship issues. That got us thinking. The new trend everyone's
1:00
Speaker 1: letting chat GPT roast their insta feeds. We've done that
1:04
Speaker 1: at Happy Families. I'll share what it said about our
1:08
Speaker 1: insta feed shortly, but I want to have a conversation
1:12
Speaker 1: about how humor works in families for good and for evil,
1:15
Speaker 1: because it can be wonderful, as the research we talked
1:18
Speaker 1: about on the Doctor's Desk episode showed last week, but sometimes,
1:22
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, it can be absolutely terrifyingly dangerous.
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Speaker 2: Well before I even realized this was a trend, Jared
1:30
Speaker 2: and Chanell, our eldest daughter and her husband, they gave
1:34
Speaker 2: it a go, and I'm telling you, we just laughed
1:37
Speaker 2: our heads off this. I don't know what's so bad
1:40
Speaker 2: about this?
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Speaker 1: Sure hit me with it. So somebody is this their
1:44
Speaker 1: Instagram feed?
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Speaker 2: Right? Their Instagram feed? Jared's? Was your Instagram feed looks
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Speaker 2: like a Hallmark card factory exploded, complete with golden our lighting,
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Speaker 2: adorable baby giggles, and more perfect hair than a shampoo commercial.
2:00
Speaker 1: So this is because they've just had a baby in
2:02
Speaker 1: the last year and they've got nothing.
2:04
Speaker 2: And Jared has long hair like Fabio.
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Speaker 1: Right insid does Chanelle?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, seriously, we get it. You've mastered the art of
2:11
Speaker 2: family photos. Are you trying to make the rest of
2:13
Speaker 2: us look bad? Maybe throw in a messy kitchen or
2:15
Speaker 2: a Todd the tantrum next time, just to remind us
2:17
Speaker 2: that you're human.
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Speaker 1: Right, That doesn't feel like a roast, does it? Like
2:22
Speaker 1: it's very much a compliment with a couple of backhanders
2:25
Speaker 1: thrown in.
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Speaker 2: So Chanelle's wasn't much better either, It said, your Instagram
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Speaker 2: feed is a delightful, albeit slightly chaotic mix of family moments,
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Speaker 2: adorable baby picks, selfies, and random scenes that scream I'm
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Speaker 2: living life on shuffle. From maternity shots and couple selfies
2:41
Speaker 2: to beach days and construction site cameos. It's like you're
2:44
Speaker 2: trying to fit every life milestone into a single grid.
2:48
Speaker 2: The feed radiates warmth and happiness, but a bit more
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Speaker 2: consistency or cohesive theme could help tie everything together.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't feel like a roast.
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Speaker 2: Still, it's clear and sharing what matter is most to
2:58
Speaker 2: you and what makes it uniquely yours.
3:01
Speaker 1: Which is kind of funny because when you look for
3:04
Speaker 1: a roast, you really want it to burn, and that
3:05
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it burns what I mean? And it's
3:08
Speaker 1: not as funny as it could be if it was
3:09
Speaker 1: really burning. Does that make sense? This is the Happy
3:14
Speaker 1: Family's Instagram roast. Okay, I've just Evelyn in the office
3:18
Speaker 1: has sent this to me, especially in preparation for today's podcast.
3:20
Speaker 1: I don't think you've heard this, I haven't. Your Instagram
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Speaker 1: feed looks like it's where inspirational quotes and pairing advice
3:27
Speaker 1: go for a spa day. The color scheme screams, I'm soothing,
3:32
Speaker 1: trust me, while your captions are like that friend who's
3:35
Speaker 1: always a little too chipper at six am.
3:38
Speaker 2: It's an ebbs feeling really good about itself.
3:40
Speaker 1: Now it's almost like your poster trying to raise the
3:42
Speaker 1: parents instead of the kids. If one of those inspirational
3:45
Speaker 1: quotes could do the dishes, and let's not forget the
3:47
Speaker 1: endless carousel of how to parent better tips that make
3:50
Speaker 1: us wonder when do you actually sleep? Anyway, Evelyn didn't
3:54
Speaker 1: like it. She said it wasn't mean enough, so she
3:56
Speaker 1: told it to do better. Isn't it how amazing? I
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Speaker 1: mean serious. I don't know if it's changing the world.
4:01
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's cure in cancer, but it
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Speaker 1: sure is spitting out some entertaining content, which is, oh
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Speaker 1: my goodness. So this was the harsh one that it
4:09
Speaker 1: sent us. Your Instagram feed is like the Pinterest board
4:12
Speaker 1: of a self help junkie who discovered canva and never
4:14
Speaker 1: looked back the PASTA overload is so aggressive it might
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Speaker 1: as well come with a side of kale smoothies. Those
4:21
Speaker 1: life changing tips and quotes are basically parenting fortune cookies, predictable, saccharine,
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Speaker 1: and a little too proud of themselves. Your captions read
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Speaker 1: like you're trying to win parent of the Year in
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Speaker 1: a competition no one else entered. And honestly, all those
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Speaker 1: perfectly post family photos, they're more staged than a reality
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Speaker 1: TV show. When's the last time you let your hair
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Speaker 1: down and posted something real? So harsh? Right ash? So
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Speaker 1: that got me thinking, how does humor fear in a family?
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Speaker 1: And I means roasting has always been a thing. When
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Speaker 1: I was a kid, we used to love to like
4:54
Speaker 1: we would roast somebody. We didn't use that terminology.
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Speaker 2: No in your family.
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Speaker 1: It was tush.
5:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'd bait each other and say horrible things to
5:02
Speaker 1: each other. But it was things like if somebody did
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Speaker 1: a good one, everyone in the group would look at
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Speaker 1: the person who had just been roasted and go oh burn,
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Speaker 1: Like there was that. That's got to hurt, that's got
5:15
Speaker 1: to cause some pain. And yet, for the most part,
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Speaker 1: as much as I as an adult, as a mature
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Speaker 1: adult who's trying to cultivate compassion, and kindness and generosity.
5:26
Speaker 1: You still like the band No No, I a cringe.
5:30
Speaker 1: It makes me feel awful. And the Tom Brady roast
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Speaker 1: is the most famous roast of all, which happened maybe
5:36
Speaker 1: six months ago now something like that. I watched a
5:39
Speaker 1: portion of it and I had to turn it off.
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Speaker 1: It was brutal the things that these people were saying.
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Speaker 1: The things they were saying about his sporting career are
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Speaker 1: about his divorce. I mean, these things were They went
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Speaker 1: to places that are hurtful. And these are strangers who
5:54
Speaker 1: are about.
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Speaker 2: To say the people that don't have like, there's no
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Speaker 2: real relationship there. They just get to have an opinion
6:02
Speaker 2: because someone's in the limelighte.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're comedians who are being paid to roast this guy.
6:07
Speaker 1: And of course he has agreed to show up and
6:11
Speaker 1: be roasted. That's part of the fun of it, right. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I'm a good sport I can take whatever you throw
6:15
Speaker 1: at me. I'm a successful person. I need to be
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Speaker 1: brought back down to earth. There's roasting and all of
6:20
Speaker 1: the time in our families that doesn't happen. But as
6:22
Speaker 1: I watched it, it just caused me pain to think
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Speaker 1: that people could say such unklind and cruel things and
6:28
Speaker 1: call it funny. And again, in line with the last
6:33
Speaker 1: few podcasts that we've done around humor and families, it
6:36
Speaker 1: just made me think, what is the role of humor
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Speaker 1: and how do we know where the line exists? Kylie
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Speaker 1: a family member that I just don't have anything to
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Speaker 1: do with anymore. I stopped having anything to do with
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Speaker 1: him because of his sarcasm. Every word that came out
6:51
Speaker 1: of his mouth felt sarcastic. It felt like it was
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Speaker 1: a put down and it was all an attenpse to
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Speaker 1: be cool, to be funny, to use humor to make
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Speaker 1: a point, but it just.
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Speaker 2: Got littling and humor it's sarcasm.
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Speaker 1: In their mind though it is, and so humor is.
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Speaker 2: Only humor if both people consider that funny.
7:10
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe. But the thing is, you often don't know
7:13
Speaker 1: if the other person will consider it funny or not
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Speaker 1: until you've said it, and then you might be so
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Speaker 1: impressed with your humor. I mean, how often do you
7:20
Speaker 1: look at someone and say, oh, come on, it was
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Speaker 1: just a joke that was funny, and they're like, no,
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Speaker 1: it wasn't funny, it was offensive. Therefore, I have three ideas,
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Speaker 1: three ideas that highlight the benefits of roasting and trash
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Speaker 1: talk in a family, because I think there really are,
7:33
Speaker 1: and I want to acknowledge that. I don't want to.
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Speaker 1: I don't want to sound all stiff and start to
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Speaker 1: you because it can be really fun to tear strips
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Speaker 1: off people in the right context with the right tone,
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Speaker 1: for the right reasons, but it can also be terribly destructive.
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Speaker 1: And I want to share research that highlights three different
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Speaker 1: concerns that we might have things that we need to
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Speaker 1: be careful of challenges when it comes to roasting and
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Speaker 1: trash talking in our close and personal, real life relationships.
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Speaker 2: So I really struggle with this conversation because I Number one.
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Speaker 1: I just because you're a serious person who grew up
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Speaker 1: in a serious house.
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Speaker 2: I am a serious person and I did grow up
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Speaker 2: in a serious house. I believe that if I'm going
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Speaker 2: to have an interaction with someone, I want it to
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Speaker 2: be an uplifting conversation. I want it and I can
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Speaker 2: still have fun with that. But if my intent is
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Speaker 2: to pull somebody down, then that doesn't meet my ends
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Speaker 2: of striving to live a life where I make a
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Speaker 2: positive difference in people's lives.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so here are three reasons that you might be
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Speaker 1: concerned about roasting and trash talk and a family based
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Speaker 1: on a sort of an amalgamation of a bunch of
8:44
Speaker 1: different studies that look at how that negative relational discourse
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Speaker 1: can happen. Number One, it can very very easily cross
8:53
Speaker 1: the line into hurtful teasing. You have to make sure
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Speaker 1: that whoever you're saying this to gets the context. They
9:00
Speaker 1: know that this is playful, but.
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Speaker 2: You don't ever know that, right because as an individual,
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Speaker 2: when somebody says that to you, especially in a group setting,
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Speaker 2: more times than not, especially when you're talking about teenagers,
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Speaker 2: we laugh because everybody else is laughing, But deep down,
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Speaker 2: you've just cut a massive hole in my.
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Speaker 1: Heart, exactly. And the thing is, and this is why
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Speaker 1: I'm sensitive to this, Jokes that target sensitive areas or
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Speaker 1: personal securities, or jokes that are mean spirited can really
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Speaker 1: cause emotional harm and damage relationships. I mean, it really
9:30
Speaker 1: does undermine trust unless the other person is in on
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Speaker 1: the joke, playing along, and even then sometimes they're doing
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Speaker 1: it to save face, so it can be very very tricky. Second,
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Speaker 1: and this is a really big one for me, I
9:43
Speaker 1: think that when we get involved in trash talking and
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Speaker 1: roasting and these so called playful put downs. What we
9:50
Speaker 1: often do is in we build, we build a culture
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Speaker 1: of disrespect. Like if that becomes the primary mode of communication,
9:59
Speaker 1: or even if it's just a regular part of communication,
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Speaker 1: respect and kindness get undermined, Relationships get strained. It becomes
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Speaker 1: hard to be vulnerable with the people who you're closest too.
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Speaker 1: If everything that you say could suddenly become a target
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Speaker 1: and you end up being victimized over and over and
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Speaker 1: over again because of your sensitivities and vulnerabilities, you just
10:18
Speaker 1: don't want to share stuff. That culture of disrespect is painful.
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Speaker 2: That kind of reminds me of the conversation we just
10:23
Speaker 2: had with the kids the other night when something happened
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Speaker 2: and they look to us and went, is that podcast material? Now?
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Speaker 1: That's got to be careful? Mom and dad might use
10:32
Speaker 1: it for content. Third one is that it impacts on
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Speaker 1: vulnerable family members, especially children. Younger kids. They're usually I
10:39
Speaker 1: shouldn't say usually, but they're often not going to understand
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Speaker 1: the nuances that are involved in whether it's sarcasm or
10:46
Speaker 1: a playful roasts, and they're much more likely to internalize
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Speaker 1: those negative comments. Even me as a nearly fifty year
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Speaker 1: old man every now and again. Just recently, a family
10:56
Speaker 1: member said something at an extended family get together, and
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Speaker 1: it took me to a three three weeks to kind
11:01
Speaker 1: of get past it and realize that it was just
11:03
Speaker 1: a playful roast. I took it to heart. It really
11:06
Speaker 1: stabbed me because I happened to have a sensitivity of
11:09
Speaker 1: vulnerability in that area that I never knew that I
11:11
Speaker 1: had until it came up on the night. And when
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Speaker 1: that happens, that people don't feel safe, they don't feel respected,
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Speaker 1: it feels like a culture of disrespect. So there my
11:22
Speaker 1: three big reasons that I think we've got to be
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Speaker 1: so careful if we're going to engage ourselves in roasting.
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Speaker 2: Well. Like I said, I still don't agree with this
11:30
Speaker 2: trash talk conversation in any way, shape or form, But
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Speaker 2: you're obviously got a list of positives that can come
11:37
Speaker 2: out of y.
11:38
Speaker 1: Let me see if I can convince you that there
11:39
Speaker 1: could be some gain to be had. So the first
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Speaker 1: one is that it can strengthen bonds if it's done
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Speaker 1: in a playful and a lighthearted way, it can bring
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Speaker 1: people closer together. It's that witty banter, the shared humor,
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Speaker 1: the camaraderie. It can lead to increased feelings of I'm
11:55
Speaker 1: going to use the word intimacy and connection if it's
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Speaker 1: done playfully and everybody on the same page that we
12:01
Speaker 1: are goofing off and that there's no harm, no.
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Speaker 2: Foul, So I can think of other ways to have fun,
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Speaker 2: of course, without going down this road when you've already
12:10
Speaker 2: given me a big list of possibilities that are not great.
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Speaker 1: Secondly, it can build resilience. And what do I mean
12:18
Speaker 1: by that, Well, if the roasting in the trash talk
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Speaker 1: is good natured, Like let's say you're out on the
12:23
Speaker 1: sporting field with one of the kids and you're kicking
12:25
Speaker 1: a ball, or you're tackling each other, or you try
12:27
Speaker 1: to shoot hoops or beat each other in a race
12:30
Speaker 1: around a track or something like that. You can throw
12:32
Speaker 1: a little bit of trash talk their way and that
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Speaker 1: makes them fight harder, or push through more, or get
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Speaker 1: gritty and resilient and do hard things. And it also
12:41
Speaker 1: gives you the chance to laugh at yourself, like sometimes
12:44
Speaker 1: in those really desperate moments, when you say something that's
12:47
Speaker 1: a bit of a roast, either on yourself or somebody else,
12:49
Speaker 1: it just makes everybody laugh and recognize that what we're
12:52
Speaker 1: doing right now, we're taking it so seriously and we're
12:55
Speaker 1: just goofing off in the park. There's not even an audience.
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Speaker 1: No one's watching. We're not playing for sheep stations, there's
13:00
Speaker 1: no multimillion dollar contracts on offer, and I just think
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Speaker 1: that I think that it can be fun from that
13:05
Speaker 1: point of view.
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Speaker 2: Is this just because you're a boy?
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Speaker 1: Boys do it a lot more than girls. Yeah, they do.
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Speaker 2: What's number three?
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Speaker 1: I think now I wanted to I'm trepidacious about sharing
13:16
Speaker 1: this one, but I reckon that it can if you
13:18
Speaker 1: engage in really clever verbal sparring. It requires really quick thinking,
13:24
Speaker 1: it requires it requires the ability to express ourselves in
13:28
Speaker 1: a fun and humorous way. And when you couple that
13:32
Speaker 1: with the connection and the bonds and the resilience that
13:35
Speaker 1: it can create, I think that it can actually burst
13:38
Speaker 1: confidence and burst communication abilities and turns it into a
13:43
Speaker 1: like just a fun, engaging interaction. It makes life spicy.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm just going to flip this all on
13:51
Speaker 2: its head, and I think more important than learning the
13:56
Speaker 2: art of trash talking, we'd be teaching our kids. It's
14:00
Speaker 2: the art of learning to laugh at themselves if we
14:04
Speaker 2: can take ourselves less seriously in the moments where we
14:07
Speaker 2: stuff but we make mistakes and it's okay because then
14:11
Speaker 2: you're the one leading the conversation. You're the one who's going,
14:14
Speaker 2: it's okay, I look like a goofball, It's fine, and
14:17
Speaker 2: we can have a good laugh about it together as
14:19
Speaker 2: opposed to somebody else putting shade on the other person.
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Speaker 1: I really love it.
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Speaker 2: You're going to have I think, a much happier and
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Speaker 2: healthier family relation.
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Speaker 1: I really really love that. Now this is a hard
14:31
Speaker 1: podcast for me as well, because roasting and trash talking
14:33
Speaker 1: and not something that I facilitate or encourage, And I
14:38
Speaker 1: just think we've got to be so careful there. Fundamentally,
14:41
Speaker 1: your idea is a much better one than what this
14:42
Speaker 1: whole podcast was about. But I wanted to do this
14:45
Speaker 1: podcast because we've been talking so much about humor and families,
14:47
Speaker 1: but also because a lot of families are not like
14:49
Speaker 1: you and I. A lot of families love to do
14:51
Speaker 1: some trash talk. A lot of families love to roast
14:54
Speaker 1: each other and they really get into it. So my
14:56
Speaker 1: caution would be if you are one of those families
14:59
Speaker 1: that really does in joy a good lot of banter,
15:03
Speaker 1: a good lot of just paying out on each other
15:04
Speaker 1: because it is fun and funny in your home. Empathy
15:08
Speaker 1: is the critical thing here. Be cautious, be empathic, watch
15:13
Speaker 1: body language carefully, and if you think that there's been
15:16
Speaker 1: any rupture in the relationship, make sure you dive in
15:19
Speaker 1: and repair it really effectively. Set We really hope that
15:26
Speaker 1: this podcast has given you some food for thought. Maybe
15:29
Speaker 1: it's changed the way that you want to engage with
15:31
Speaker 1: roasting and trash talk and it's time to ban it
15:33
Speaker 1: all together. Or maybe you can see that you can
15:36
Speaker 1: do it in ways that are going to work for
15:37
Speaker 1: your family and improve the family dynamic as a result,
15:41
Speaker 1: because what has been happening has not been healthy. The
15:44
Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin ruland from Bridge Media.
15:47
Speaker 1: More information about making your family happier is available at
15:50
Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com dot au