Latest / Speak In Flow / Transforming Conversations: Conflict, Leadership, and Growth with Anil Awasti

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Transforming Conversations: Conflict, Leadership, and Growth with Anil Awasti · Speak In Flow

• 0:04
  Melinda Lee: Hi Anil, it's good to have you on the show.
• 0:07
  Anil Awasti: . Thank you for having me.
• 0:09
  Melinda Lee: Yes, I'm so glad you're here, especially because
• 0:13
  you help nonprofits and mission driven organisations. And so
• 0:18
  before we jump into the meat and potatoes about conflict
• 0:21
  resolution and conflict management, I'm curious, what
• 0:25
  are you excited about working with these organisations?
• 0:29
  Anil Awasti: Yes, thanks for asking. So I started off my
• 0:32
  career in nonprofits even before I got into HR. After I decided
• 0:37
  that I want to pursue a career in HR, I kind of fell into a
• 0:40
  nonprofit that applied to a number of organisations and
• 0:45
  nonprofits where I just started my HR career. And I really liked
• 0:48
  the idea of serving the community, and thinking of the
• 0:54
  community as our as our shareholders and our
• 0:56
  stakeholders. And that just really resonated with me. And
• 1:00
  long story short, 10 years later, I've just been working in
• 1:03
  nonprofits and HR leadership. I teach at a nonprofit and I
• 1:08
  consulted nonprofits. Although I do consult with some for
• 1:11
  profits, most of my work is bent around nonprofit, that our
• 1:15
  mission.
• 1:17
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, no, I'm just so glad I love talking to people
• 1:20
  meeting people that have a connection to their work. And,
• 1:24
  and just a connection to feel, hey, I'm putting in so many
• 1:27
  hours of my day, you might as well find something that you
• 1:30
  feel connected to you, you. And also the people around you.
• 1:35
  Yeah. So thank you for all your work on that. And the nonprofit
• 1:39
  space and helping the community really appreciate it. And so
• 1:43
  what and your specialty, even drilling down further, you have
• 1:47
  specialty around conflict management. And so I was
• 1:51
  curious, I heard I have a conflict resolution credential
• 1:55
  from Golden Gate University. And that's also where you're adjunct
• 1:59
  professor. And so it's interesting, because I wonder,
• 2:02
  what's the difference between conflict management and conflict
• 2:05
  resolution?
• 2:06
  Anil Awasti: Yeah, yeah, that's one of the first classes I
• 2:09
  started teaching university. And I still teach that this semester
• 2:14
  as well. So the way I see the distinction is that not every
• 2:18
  conflict is going to be resolved. With a win win
• 2:22
  resolution. I firmly believe most conflicts, like 80% of
• 2:27
  conflicts can be resolved with a win win, meaning both parties
• 2:30
  can actually have everything they want. Maybe not in the
• 2:34
  manner that they wanted, but they have to collect a genuine
• 2:37
  emotions, you still have their interest and their goals be met.
• 2:43
  Conflict Resolution, on the other hand, if I'm sorry,
• 2:46
  conflict management, on the other hand, I believe is for
• 2:49
  those like 20% or so conflicts that aren't going to result in a
• 2:53
  win win. Where you have to agree to disagree, but how you agree
• 2:57
  to disagree, I think is what matters. It matters in workplace
• 3:01
  relationships. And I think it matters in close personal
• 3:04
  relationships. So I think how you manage that disagreement is
• 3:09
  where conflict management shines. And that's why I use the
• 3:12
  use the term conflict management in my class more than I use
• 3:15
  conflict resolution.
• 3:17
  Melinda Lee: Oh, that's really interesting. So do the conflict
• 3:20
  management is that for specifically, once you've
• 3:23
  identified, we're not going to be able to resolve this. And
• 3:28
  then this is where the class filled in the gap for the 20%,
• 3:32
  or you kind of cover the whole gamut
• 3:34
  Anil Awasti: will occur the whole time. Okay, mostly, it's
• 3:37
  more easy for me to illustrate this. And those Yeah, those
• 3:40
  areas where all of our needs are not going to be met, as opposed
• 3:43
  to a compromise where we meet halfway, I give up something,
• 3:47
  you give up something and I get something and you get something,
• 3:50
  well, we might not be completely satisfied, but we have to move
• 3:52
  on. Because conflict just isn't over. When you have a
• 3:55
  resolution. You have to manage the aftermath, the emotions and
• 3:59
  all, all those things that, you know, come to the forefront, and
• 4:05
  can put our relationships in danger. If they're right. Right.
• 4:09
  Right. Right. Because like you said, you we are going to still
• 4:12
  continue to work with these people. This is conflict
• 4:15
  management, assuming that we are going to work with these people.
• 4:19
  And so how do we go through it? Tell me more about what you said
• 4:22
  about how we're getting to the the end or the the the not
• 4:29
  there's no resolution, but how in the process of managing the
• 4:32
  conflict. Tell me more about what that means. Yeah, it's to
• 4:36
  me what that means is my relationship with you. Yeah,
• 4:41
  more important to me than when right now? Yeah. Because
• 4:46
  sometimes you might get a win right now, but you'll do you'll
• 4:49
  incur a net loss over a period of time because you do more
• 4:53
  damage to the relationship than is necessary. So I think that's
• 4:57
  what it means to me. You know, if you back into it compromise,
• 5:00
  like I said, Well, you might not get everything. But maybe next,
• 5:05
  I suppose you're in conflict with your spouse or another
• 5:07
  loved one or close personal relationship. Maybe I got a
• 5:12
  little bit more out of the deal than you this time. And next
• 5:14
  time, I'm gonna manage this as maybe I'm gonna give it a bit
• 5:17
  more. One party isn't always getting the short end of the
• 5:21
  stick. So that's, that's the my opinion how you these number of
• 5:25
  acts that you do after conflict, to either destroy the
• 5:31
  relationship, or strengthen the relationship? Because
• 5:35
  relationships don't mean we're gonna be in agreement all the
• 5:37
  time. Right, right. This reminds me of this is this has nothing
• 5:42
  to do with conflict. But it actually just reminds me of my
• 5:44
  mom who had cancer. And when something like this happens, and
• 5:50
  you're about to go into conflict, you can do a couple of
• 5:53
  things, right. But she had cancer, she did everything that
• 5:55
  she needed to do to fight this cancer. For her in her
• 5:58
  perspective, there's a lot of ways to go about it. But she did
• 6:01
  her, her chemotherapy or radiation, she did the surgery.
• 6:06
  And there's some people that are going to fight the whole way, be
• 6:08
  upset the whole way and angry and yell at everybody around
• 6:12
  her. And there's something for her, she was just the kindest
• 6:16
  person, she was still just warm and, and so this is what we're
• 6:20
  talking about the process, right? When you're in a
• 6:22
  conflict, you can go about it a couple of ways. You can be angry
• 6:25
  and yell, or you can really try your best to to, to listen to
• 6:31
  have empathy, you're the outcome, like you said, it was
• 6:35
  no resolution, because she ended up passing away. But then when
• 6:38
  we reflect back about the whole process of what she had gone
• 6:41
  through, it was like, like, how she went about to do it was was
• 6:46
  what she wanted and what I remember. So like you said,
• 6:49
  like, if we're in a relationship with somebody, and we're having
• 6:51
  conflict, and you reflect back, even though there's no
• 6:55
  resolution, her first date for my mom, and there was no
• 6:59
  beneficial outcome for her that was not the outcome that she
• 7:01
  wanted. But I think yeah, but I think I think that her process
• 7:06
  of how she went about it, that's exactly what she wanted to do.
• 7:10
  I'm so sorry to hear. Yeah, I just for whatever reason, I'm
• 7:14
  sorry, you know, thinking about that. But I think that
• 7:16
  hopefully, that will help people see what, when you reflect that.
• 7:21
  And this moment, because you could do a lot of damage in
• 7:24
  those times. Yeah. Right. You know, we can either talk about
• 7:28
  this now or some other time, but emotions are internal facts.
• 7:32
  That's how I talk in my in my classes, and people often make
• 7:38
  these types of assertions. So you shouldn't get mad, you
• 7:40
  shouldn't feel that way. Well, they are. Right. Well, it just
• 7:45
  is what it is and to be acknowledged during conflict.
• 7:49
  Not acted out, but acknowledged. Yes, yeah. Part of it behind and
• 7:54
  in, which is, you know, very strong stimulus, in emotions are
• 8:00
  acknowledging them and trying to understand the emotions the
• 8:03
  others going through will help you get to a better resolution.
• 8:07
  And oh, right, I think both as well, right, I think both ends,
• 8:11
  right. As a person, if I'm angry, I have a I can decide
• 8:16
  whether I'm going to act out on it.
• 8:18
  Melinda Lee: Right. The Oh, and also the receiver. Like you
• 8:23
  said, sometimes people will say you shouldn't feel angry. But if
• 8:26
  you're the receiver of this anger, like you said,
• 8:28
  acknowledging that anger, but when both parties can do that,
• 8:33
  and just acknowledge it. And then decide whether you want to
• 8:37
  act on it. If you have a lot of anger than that, perhaps like if
• 8:40
  you're thinking about back about the process, maybe we don't want
• 8:44
  to act out on it and give yourself some time and space
• 8:47
  Anil Awasti: emotions are complicated, I mean, on the
• 8:51
  surface observable, but actually the emotion the person is
• 8:55
  feeling there might be men tend to do this a lot. They will
• 8:58
  mask, you know, fear with anger. Right? Not all men, but it's,
• 9:05
  you know, overwhelmingly men do this. So understanding what
• 9:08
  emotion someone is feeling and to navigate those is incredibly
• 9:12
  important in conflict. I did the whole lecture on that in my
• 9:15
  classes.
• 9:16
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Can you share one tip or one? How to how to
• 9:20
  manage it. From your perspective?
• 9:23
  Anil Awasti: First, the biggest tip I can share is recognise
• 9:27
  your own emotions. Are you in fact angry? Or you're afraid?
• 9:35
  For women? Are you actually thinking it's not a big deal and
• 9:39
  you're just avoiding? Or is it a really big deal and just masking
• 9:44
  that anxiety of having to deal with a conflict with just an
• 9:48
  avoidant behaviour so recognising emotions is a great
• 9:52
  place to start.
• 9:56
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, most of us will avoid it because it's so
• 9:58
  uncomfortable.
• 10:00
  Anil Awasti: Yeah, it is
• 10:01
  Melinda Lee: It is uncomfortable, and what is the
• 10:04
  opportunity when we can? Go? And?
• 10:10
  Anil Awasti: Well, I mean, if you're talking about this in the
• 10:12
  context of managers and their roles and conflict management,
• 10:15
  right, I'm often times in my career managers come to me. And
• 10:22
  they're talking about a certain type of conflict that their
• 10:24
  employees are facing. And, you know, I talk through them, I can
• 10:28
  give you some coaching. And, you know, I'll ask questions about
• 10:32
  what the employee has done, because remember, we are talking
• 10:35
  about adults here. The employee done to resolve this, oh, the
• 10:39
  employee feels uncomfortable, or they feel uncomfortable coming
• 10:42
  to you directly. That's it. Okay. And as the manager, how
• 10:45
  have you addressed that, most of the time they address it by by
• 10:50
  taking over the responsibility. And that is a disservice, in my
• 10:56
  opinion to the employee and the organisation. Being
• 11:00
  uncomfortable is not a good enough reason to avoid
• 11:02
  something. That's how you learn. That's how you grow. And it's
• 11:06
  not a manager's job to provide a comfortable environment. A
• 11:10
  manager's job is to provide a safe environment.
• 11:12
  Melinda Lee: Got it, I love that. That's so true.
• 11:16
  Anil Awasti: So providing a safe environment means you'd have to
• 11:19
  encourage appropriate risk taking, right. One of the some
• 11:22
  of the biggest issues I see with managers, our managers avoid
• 11:27
  dealing with conflict managers, tend to be conflict avoidant.
• 11:31
  And one of the biggest complaints about managers is
• 11:33
  they do not handle conflict, they either open or just go
• 11:36
  away, or either pretend like it just doesn't exist. So they're
• 11:42
  avoided. Some other things that they do is they engage or they
• 11:47
  create a situation are avoidable conflict, actually flourishes.
• 11:52
  And people engage in conflict, easily avoided by having unclear
• 11:57
  expectations, unclear job descriptions, or setting up
• 12:01
  setting up situations where people are competing against
• 12:05
  each other for no reason. You should be eliminated. Right?
• 12:10
  Right. positions, incredibly healthy, right? It has to be
• 12:14
  deliberate. But when from an employee's perspective, they
• 12:17
  have unclear directions, they feel they're responsible for
• 12:21
  something or have jurisdiction over something. So to someone
• 12:24
  else, well, that's going to result in conflict. Coupled with
• 12:28
  a manager that is avoidant, it's just going to play off for a
• 12:31
  long period of time until it blows up. Wow. So the last thing
• 12:37
  managers, because what I illustrated the beginning is
• 12:39
  they feel the need to to go to the rescue of the person that's
• 12:43
  complaining. And while mediation is a powerful tool, it shouldn't
• 12:49
  be the first step. Not every, right for mediation. Managers
• 12:56
  roles I believe, are to teach to coach to facilitate, but
• 13:00
  facilitation comes later. That's the mediation piece, right? Uh,
• 13:04
  taking the time to think through what the per the complainant,
• 13:07
  that person has come to you with a conflict situation, what, you
• 13:10
  know, what is your role in this conflict? How have you
• 13:12
  contributed to it? What are your goals? How would you like to see
• 13:15
  it resolved? What can you say to this person? How can you
• 13:17
  approach them, spending the time and thinking through all of
• 13:20
  these is going to do more service for the employee and the
• 13:24
  organisation and the managers time in the future? Because they
• 13:28
  won't have to jump in every conflict. Right now.
• 13:30
  Melinda Lee: How do they know how does the manager know
• 13:32
  whether they're avoiding or not,
• 13:34
  Anil Awasti: How does a manager know if they're avoiding or not?
• 13:36
  Yeah.
• 13:38
  Melinda Lee: Clear something?
• 13:39
  Anil Awasti: Well, I think, you know, I think working with a
• 13:41
  coach is good. asking, you know, asking your staff for feedback,
• 13:48
  how well do you write conflict?
• 13:51
  Melinda Lee: That's a good one. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:53
  Anil Awasti: There's nothing remarkable about it asking for
• 13:55
  feedback. But it's also uncomfortable. And, and yeah, if
• 13:59
  you're coming from a collectivistic culture or saving
• 14:02
  face, right, is the norm, you're probably not going to want to
• 14:05
  ask those types of questions. And if you're an employee coming
• 14:09
  from collectivistic, cultures are probably not going to want
• 14:11
  to, to give direct feedback to your superior either. So you
• 14:17
  have to ask in different ways.
• 14:19
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I mean, anonymous survey would be
• 14:22
  helpful to get some feedback. And because, yeah, I mean,
• 14:27
  especially if you want, right, right, if you want to understand
• 14:31
  where there's some blind spots or as a manager, right, what can
• 14:35
  I do? You can put it more holistically. Yeah, what what
• 14:39
  can I do to be a better manager?
• 14:42
  Anil Awasti: And then I think a good place to start for managers
• 14:45
  is learning assertiveness skills. Yeah. So if somebody
• 14:50
  comes to you with a conflict situation, quickly assess it and
• 14:53
  like, you know, I'm happy to help but I really want you to
• 14:55
  deal with I really wish you guys would deal with it first. And if
• 14:58
  you can't get me Do you see the responsibility back on the
• 15:02
  employee? Make yourself available if they need help,
• 15:05
  they want to talk. But don't just jump in there, like I might
• 15:09
  go into the rescue one of your employees, they're
• 15:13
  uncomfortable, they'll be fine.
• 15:15
  Melinda Lee: What are you finding is the one of the
• 15:17
  primary challenges you mentioned, they avoid it. And
• 15:22
  they're avoiding because they're not giving. They don't know how
• 15:25
  to give direct feedback, or?
• 15:29
  Anil Awasti: Well, there are a number of reasons. Not all of
• 15:33
  them apply to everybody. Some people are naturally conflict
• 15:37
  avoidant strategy that they've practised ever since childhood,
• 15:41
  so they have a lot of competency with that strategy. And our job
• 15:45
  is to kind of get them to develop some level of competency
• 15:48
  with other areas like collaboration, accommodation,
• 15:51
  compromise, even competition. That others, it's just
• 15:56
  uncomfortable. Another reason it's uncomfortable, so they're
• 15:59
  rather not got it.
• 16:02
  Melinda Lee: And that's probably where we want to lean into when
• 16:04
  we're finding discomfort with something that, like you said,
• 16:08
  it's not about avoiding the discomfort, but it's about hate.
• 16:11
  Because you you and your team, we're all feeling discomfort.
• 16:14
  But as a manager, you want to be the safety, but like provide
• 16:18
  safety to go and lean into the discomfort because that's where
• 16:21
  you're gonna grow. Yeah, those are the areas Yeah, yeah,
• 16:25
  Anil Awasti: I just ran a couple of workshops over the last four
• 16:27
  weeks or so for a couple of my clients conflict management. And
• 16:31
  I was asked, I want to do my trainings on performance
• 16:34
  management, and interview skills, things like that. I
• 16:37
  always ask if the manager has ever received such a training
• 16:39
  before, and almost always, no hands go up. And it's so
• 16:43
  interesting, even in 2023, we put people in leadership roles,
• 16:50
  and not give them the tool because they're really good at
• 16:51
  the job, they're really good at attacking a piece of their jobs.
• 16:54
  But we forget that the leadership skills need to be
• 16:59
  developed. And it's okay to put a high performer in those roles,
• 17:02
  but you have to give them the tools as well. And sometimes the
• 17:05
  field that managers believe that now they're their manager, they
• 17:09
  have those skills, right? And they end up going to mediation,
• 17:14
  I think is going to do more harm than good. Because having, you
• 17:17
  know spent time practising or learning some theory or just,
• 17:21
  you know, the only thing to do is go on without preparation,
• 17:26
  remediation meeting, you know, I spent an hour or two hours
• 17:30
  prepping for the mediation meeting. So it takes time,
• 17:35
  right, you can do back to back, you can have back to back
• 17:38
  meeting scheduled and you just walk into mediation without any
• 17:41
  prep, that's gonna do a lot of harm. Right, right.
• 17:45
  Melinda Lee: I agree. And mediation is almost like the
• 17:47
  last step. If you can have these skill sets in the skill
• 17:51
  beforehand, before mediation, then you're actually going to
• 17:54
  avoid that mediation altogether. The goal?
• 17:57
  Anil Awasti: Absolutely. You want a mediation? Right, right.
• 18:00
  Sometimes you need external help, and that's okay. Right.
• 18:03
  Right. And like you said, I mean, because I think the
• 18:05
  managers, yeah, they they know all of the technical aspects of
• 18:09
  it. But this is all I don't think there's an end. Yes, you
• 18:13
  may know, some conflict management skills.
• 18:15
  Melinda Lee: But why why Kap it? Like, there's always more to
• 18:19
  learn as when I'm thinking, they might think I have some basic, I
• 18:22
  got this, I'm good. And then well, you know, what they don't
• 18:26
  realise is that I think that there's more to learn. There's
• 18:28
  always Yeah, skills that we can evolve and get better at, like
• 18:34
  these types of things.
• 18:35
  Anil Awasti: Yeah, people are listening. And they can think
• 18:37
  back to a conflict, a mediated leader, right? Even if they
• 18:40
  weren't a leader, and then mediate of the conflict. Maybe
• 18:43
  it went, Well, maybe it didn't go well. But in their minds, if
• 18:46
  you guys want to do like a post mortem and see what actually,
• 18:49
  you did that worked well, and things you did that did not
• 18:53
  work. Well. What what do you do differently? Yeah, I think
• 18:56
  recent conflict, that's a good tool as well. So at least you're
• 19:00
  continually improving, you know, by having a meeting with
• 19:03
  yourself, right?
• 19:06
  Melinda Lee: Can you share a example of a client that you
• 19:10
  work with like it was a before the the client was working with
• 19:14
  you before having these skills and then what happened after you
• 19:16
  started working, or finish working with the client?
• 19:20
  Anil Awasti: I'm sure. There's a client of mine in San Francisco
• 19:27
  they're having. They're having challenges with an employee. And
• 19:37
  they're not sure how to approach that employee because the
• 19:45
  employee is confrontational. And her home country had worked in
• 19:55
  HR, so they're a bit afraid of her as well. And they, they
• 20:04
  don't know what they can say or they did not know what they can
• 20:13
  say. You know how to deal with this. But the colleagues were
• 20:22
  complaining as well of this this employee. Okay, about 70 80% of
• 20:32
  the colleagues complained. There's a complaint in that
• 20:40
  department about that one person, the one person just
• 20:48
  doesn't see itin meetings, even all the way up to the executive
• 20:57
  director, she commit to making changes. But then she'd refute
• 21:06
  everything that's being said. One on the who's saying what
• 21:15
  things like that. So, it was decided that coaching is not
• 21:24
  going anywhere, we need to put this employee, we need to up the
• 21:33
  ante put her on a performance improvement plan. So I worked
• 21:42
  with the direct supervisor and the supervisors manager as well.
• 21:51
  So the head of the department on how to conduct this meeting, and
• 22:01
  they had a lot of anxiety around. Key sessions all over
• 22:09
  zoom in the executive director and the deputy director were
• 22:18
  there as well. And so through the through these two sessions,
• 22:27
  it wasn't anything remarkable to be very honest, that I did or I
• 22:37
  taught them, it was just by facilitating a dialogue, we were
• 22:46
  able to take the time to plan for that meeting. I think that
• 22:55
  was my only contribution. Quite frankly, I didn't have the
• 23:04
  answers like things like, what do you what are your goals from
• 23:13
  this meeting? That's manager asking the supervisor, what do
• 23:22
  you think? Are the employees goals? What are your interests?
• 23:31
  What do you think are her interest? I know your position,
• 23:39
  what are her positions? you know, answering assertively
• 23:48
  politely and assertively, especially if the employee keeps
• 23:56
  probing, you know, asking questions that they can't
• 24:04
  answer. The meeting went well, the bottles meetings went well,
• 24:13
  and then the subsequent meeting with the employee went while I
• 24:23
  was not there, that was my job. But all that to say, all we did
• 24:32
  is we spent some time preparing, The reason that thing is so
• 24:41
  powerful is because it you can calculate, you know how to
• 24:50
  negotiate what goals are your non negotiables? And which goals
• 24:59
  can you negotiate upon still be very happy. If you don't go
• 25:08
  through those calculations, right, you might negotiate away
• 25:17
  the wrong things. Or you might not know you could have given
• 25:24
  Melinda Lee: Correct. That's huge. That's huge. Right? Yeah.
• 25:26
  something up and preserve the relationship, and there wouldn't
• 25:27
  And knowing the things that we want to negotiate that are
• 25:31
  negotiable, non negotiables. And that way, you're not in the
• 25:35
  be a difference to you. Correct?
• 25:35
  conversation and just standing, you know, with blank stare?
• 25:39
  Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Anil, and so what, when, you
• 25:43
  know, we have people out there, they're listening, they might be
• 25:48
  thinking about their employee having these difficult
• 25:51
  conversations with employees are crucial, and what, how can they
• 25:55
  reach you? Or how can they Yeah, what can you do to help them?
• 26:00
  Anil Awasti: Thank you, so they can visit my website, it's been
• 26:03
  an incredibly I believe, you'll have some information as well.
• 26:07
  But velocity consulting, is my last name, AWASTI
• 26:11
  consulting.com. You can shoot me a message there. And also shoot
• 26:15
  me a message as Anil Awasthi consulting.com, feel free to
• 26:19
  connect with me on LinkedIn, we're putting out some good
• 26:23
  content, hopefully, on a weekly basis around HR, and you know,
• 26:27
  the evolution of HR AI, all of these things a lot to do with
• 26:31
  culture. So I'm happy to connect to a lot of, you know, not just
• 26:36
  HR, but I do some operational consulting as well. Awesome. I
• 26:40
  love working with people. So, you know, I work with not just
• 26:44
  leaders, but emerging leaders and boards of directors as well.
• 26:48
  So if you if you'd like to just have an exploratory call, I'm
• 26:52
  happy to do that as well.
• 26:54
  Melinda Lee: you. Anil, and what are your last, like, Key Tips
• 26:58
  for leaders that are out there that are struggling with having
• 27:02
  these types of conversations effectively?
• 27:05
  Anil Awasti: Yep, well, the one tip I'll share is that be kind
• 27:12
  to yourself. It's conflict management, effective conflict
• 27:19
  management is not for the faint of heart, is it is challenging.
• 27:27
  It takes a lot of cognitive energy, takes time to prepare,
• 27:34
  takes time to go through the meetings, you have to sit in
• 27:41
  difficult, uncomfortable situations, and they will always
• 27:48
  be uncomfortable. Doesn't matter how long you've been, there will
• 27:57
  always be uncomfortable. And then you also have to spend time
• 28:04
  and energy and cognitive capacity to manage the
• 28:10
  aftermath. So be kind to yourself, know that you have a
• 28:17
  lot of expertise in whatever your default style is, it might
• 28:25
  be avoided, it might be competition, practice that your
• 28:32
  whole life. And others so I really apologise when you make a
• 28:39
  mistake. I know right? Very long way in my classes. Opponents
• 28:47
  have an apology, but it's we're running out of time here but
• 28:54
  apologise even need BNF speed your ego at the door, you'll be fine.
• 29:03
  Melinda Lee: It's huge. It's huge. Awesome. Thank you. And
• 29:06
  Neil, thank you so much for your time, your expertise, really
• 29:10
  appreciate it. Reach out to Emil all of his information will be
• 29:14
  in the comments and the notes.
• 29:16
  Anil Awasti: Take care. Thank you.