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Convicted Killer Susan Smith's Shocking Prison Texts · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 2: In the last days shocking and let me say, disgusting.
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  Speaker 2: Jail text of baby killer mom Susan Smith. Remember her,
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  Speaker 2: she drowned her two children. This woman, it never ends
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  Speaker 2: with her. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
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  Speaker 2: want to thank you for being with us. Killer Mom
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  Speaker 2: Susan Smith, who's round her two little boys in South Carolina,
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  Speaker 2: is raking in I can't believe this. I have to
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  Speaker 2: go to let's see four years of undergrad three years
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  Speaker 2: of law school, and three years of graduate law school
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  Speaker 2: at NYU. That's four plus three US ten years to
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  Speaker 2: make a living. This woman is raking in thousands of
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  Speaker 2: dollars from lovelorn men, promising she will quote be with them.
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  Speaker 2: I think we all know what that means when she
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  Speaker 2: ever gets out of prison. Yes. Yes, Transcripts have been
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  Speaker 2: obtained of hundreds of voice and text messages. Smith has
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  Speaker 2: traded with love sick men while she's behind bars.
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  Speaker 1: She gets and.
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  Speaker 2: Sends around twenty texts a day, spending hours talking on
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  Speaker 2: the phone to love sick guys who engage in sex
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  Speaker 2: talk with her, and these guys range from age twenty seven.
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  Speaker 2: Go go find a young woman your own age, Repeat's
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  Speaker 2: sake twenty seven and mid sixties. They send money to
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  Speaker 2: her prison account and she texts about how she wants
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  Speaker 2: to be with them and what she wants to do
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  Speaker 2: to them when she gets out. Okay, reality check, this
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  Speaker 2: is who Susan Smith really is.
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  Speaker 3: Love.
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  Speaker 4: He's a lady got about and some guy dum to
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  Speaker 4: a red light with her car with.
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  Speaker 5: Her two kids in it.
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  Speaker 4: The need to golf, and he got out of call
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  Speaker 4: here at Ohio and he got let.
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  Speaker 5: Her call it.
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  Speaker 4: I don't I need to go along, get down here.
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  Speaker 6: An carry, but we need a Maga proty day.
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  Speaker 5: What color was it?
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  Speaker 4: A burgundy Maga Protegee? We don't get him?
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  Speaker 7: Going pay him?
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  Speaker 4: I got two.
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  Speaker 2: I love that degree of detail. You know. I don't
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  Speaker 2: even know where to go first because I've got such
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  Speaker 2: awesome experts, But I'm going to go first with Chris mcdonna.
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  Speaker 2: He is the director of Cold Case Foundation. Okay, don't care,
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  Speaker 2: former homicide detective, starting to care, getting warm, getting warm,
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  Speaker 2: getting hotter. He has his own YouTube channel, the Interview
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  Speaker 2: Room where I found him. You can find him at
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  Speaker 2: Coldcase Foundation dot org or on the Interview Room. Former
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  Speaker 2: Homicide detective three hundred ish homicide scenes under his belt.
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  Speaker 2: Chris mcdonna, don't you love the degree of detail?
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  Speaker 1: Hey?
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  Speaker 2: You know what send me? Sometimes you got to hear
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  Speaker 2: the best stuff. Can you play that one more time? Listen,
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  Speaker 2: my love?
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  Speaker 4: And he's a lady you come on, got dolar And
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  Speaker 4: she's some guy dumping into a red light with her
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  Speaker 4: car with her two kids in it, and.
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  Speaker 6: He's took off.
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  Speaker 4: She got out of call here at Ohio Layo, let
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  Speaker 4: her call it. I don't rhy I need to go along,
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  Speaker 4: you know, down here and a car is what we
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  Speaker 4: need to add. A maga protegee. What color was it?
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  Speaker 4: A burgundy maga protege.
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  Speaker 7: We don't get him going pay him?
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  Speaker 2: They got take I'll call all the detail, Chris mcdonna.
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  Speaker 2: She's quote real hysterical and you need to call himlong
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  Speaker 2: and get him down here right now. And you hear
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  Speaker 2: her feeding details in the background.
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  Speaker 8: Nancy, Wasn't that the narrative that captivated America?
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  Speaker 2: How can you be so calm?
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  Speaker 8: You know, we just get used to it. Unfortunately, right
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  Speaker 8: it's when.
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  Speaker 2: Somebody still get very angry, very angry. And I know
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  Speaker 2: the end of this story.
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  Speaker 1: But the detail.
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  Speaker 2: Have you ever seen perps and they will spin you
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  Speaker 2: a yarn with such incredibly rich detail.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, and typically that detail, if it's that minutia and
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  Speaker 8: that amount, is typically a sign of deception. And she
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  Speaker 8: kicked it off right.
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  Speaker 2: From that nine one one call from the beginning, the beginning,
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  Speaker 2: running up to somebody's house talking about some guy jumps
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  Speaker 2: out and you know this occurs in rural Union County,
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  Speaker 2: South Carolina, near the John D. Long Lake. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: hold on, Chris McDonald, where where do you live, Chris?
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  Speaker 7: Well?
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  Speaker 8: Right now, I'm in Arizona, but I lived in South
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  Speaker 8: Carolina right there in Mount Plus.
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  Speaker 2: You're very familiar with this area. Let me go to
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  Speaker 2: another country boy like this country girl right here. Just
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  Speaker 2: got Morgan joining me, although he's gotten pretty high falutin.
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  Speaker 2: Professor Forensis, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet,
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  Speaker 2: still waiting on another book to come out, host of
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  Speaker 2: Bodybag's hit podcast. This area. Chris McDonough has lived in
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  Speaker 2: South Carolina. I've gone to this scene before. It's extremely rural,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm supposed to believe a guy jumps out of
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  Speaker 2: what from behind a stop sign and hijacks her car
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  Speaker 2: and takes off with the children clearly in the back seat,
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  Speaker 2: two little boys.
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  Speaker 9: Yeah, what are the odds that you're going to have
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  Speaker 9: somebody that wants to do this kind of harm, whether
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  Speaker 9: or not they had an awareness that, you know, these
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  Speaker 9: poor little angels were buckled down in those back seats.
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  Speaker 9: The fact that you would have this kind of aggressive
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  Speaker 9: behavior in that location where she was specifically targeted as
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  Speaker 9: an investigator, I'm certainly going to raise an eyebrow and
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  Speaker 9: I'm going to take a long look at what she
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  Speaker 9: has to say, because, as you and I both know, Nancy,
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  Speaker 9: the line share, the line share of home sides that
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  Speaker 9: we talked about have some kind of familial connection. That
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  Speaker 9: means that you're around intimates those individuals that are most important.
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  Speaker 9: So you're going to tell me that a random stranger
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  Speaker 9: just came up and kidnapped these babies and run off
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  Speaker 9: with them and left her standing on the side of
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  Speaker 9: the road weeping.
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  Speaker 2: Now, did you hear what he just did? Chris mcdonah,
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  Speaker 2: I am going along with everything he says, but he's
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  Speaker 2: a wilely one. You got to really watching watch what
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  Speaker 2: Joe Scott says. I agree with the whole rural aspect.
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  Speaker 2: But did you hear him say if the unknown male
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  Speaker 2: assailant noticed the children in the back seat. I'm looking
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  Speaker 2: right now at a ninety four Mazda Protege. You can
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  Speaker 2: see straight into the back seat from every angle of
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  Speaker 2: the car. It's not like you know, you see those
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  Speaker 2: black su these with tended windows, you can't see what's
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  Speaker 2: going on in there. No, you can see exactly what's
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  Speaker 2: going on in the back seat. And I'm looking at
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  Speaker 2: a shot from the distance, I can see through the
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  Speaker 2: back window, through the back dash, and through the other
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  Speaker 2: side of the car. Whoever took the car could definitely
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  Speaker 2: see that children were strapped into car seats in the
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  Speaker 2: back seat. I mean, okay, you know what, Let's take
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  Speaker 2: a listen to the nine one one call.
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  Speaker 5: Listen when a by golehead did it with a black
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  Speaker 5: mail driving a Burnandi Protege, a firm did one fine.
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  Speaker 3: They had two juvenil waiting ones fine for one underd
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  Speaker 3: or smile children.
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  Speaker 4: These are her children.
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  Speaker 5: And she jumped out of the car, and he took
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  Speaker 5: the car with the children, and he hated toy Chestram.
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  Speaker 4: Are the victory of the.
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  Speaker 7: Family.
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  Speaker 3: When I gathered by the call.
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  Speaker 1: They are not.
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  Speaker 5: This is a stranger that had jumped in the lady's
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  Speaker 5: car at a red light, and she jumped.
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  Speaker 2: Out, I mean really, Tara, and I'm leading up to
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  Speaker 2: what Susan Smith is doing right now. And let me
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  Speaker 2: tell you that involves six different men, that said Tara
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  Speaker 2: Malick joining me out of Boise, Idaho co owner Smith
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  Speaker 2: and Malik, former state and federal prosecutor.
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  Speaker 1: Tara once again blamed the black man. I remember when
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  Speaker 1: this happened.
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  Speaker 2: I was trying a case and I looked over at
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  Speaker 2: my friend, my colleague, who went on to be a joke,
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  Speaker 2: I might add, and I went, Herman, have you seen
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  Speaker 2: the composite of the guy that Susan Smith described? And
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  Speaker 2: he went, yeah, I know what you're going to say,
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  Speaker 2: but yeah, it looks just like you. It looked just
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  Speaker 2: like Herman Sloan, my trial partner who had come into
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  Speaker 2: court to.
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  Speaker 1: Bail me out of some sling.
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  Speaker 2: I got in with the judge with some appellate law
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  Speaker 2: trying to suggest that I was right and whatever I did,
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  Speaker 2: but he went, yeah, I've heard I looked just like
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  Speaker 2: this Susan Smith park and he did, I mean, think
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  Speaker 2: about it, Tara, An innocent person could have been arrested
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  Speaker 2: and probably tried and convicted based on her fake composite
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  Speaker 2: and all of her lies. Like my Herman, one of my.
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  Speaker 1: Best friends in the DA's office.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, I mean the crime itself was atrocious and horristic.
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  Speaker 6: And and then and then you know, to give this
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  Speaker 6: false profile of someone else who may have done it,
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  Speaker 6: wasting resources, law enforcement resources, wasting everybody's time, but also,
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  Speaker 6: like you said, putting somebody else potentially in jeopardy of
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  Speaker 6: being picked up for It's just mind boggling that she
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  Speaker 6: would go down the road.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I've dealt with a sod defense many times.
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  Speaker 2: I named it that some other dude did it. Sod d.
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  Speaker 2: Here she goes, some other dude did it, and listen
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  Speaker 2: to her.
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  Speaker 1: Listen.
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  Speaker 10: I would like to stay to whoever has my children,
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  Speaker 10: that they please they please bring.
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  Speaker 9: Them home.
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  Speaker 10: To us where they belong.
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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 10: Now.
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  Speaker 2: In one instance, she tells a love dude quote, I
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  Speaker 2: don't ask for money, That's not who I am. Does
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  Speaker 2: he know you're a two time killer, But if you
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  Speaker 2: wanted to send me something, I can tell you how
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  Speaker 2: to do it. He writes back, and says he has
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  Speaker 2: absolutely sent money into her jail account. Love you, She responds, okay,
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  Speaker 2: please somebody bring me my vomit bag. This is who
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  Speaker 2: Susan Smith really is. Susan Smith murdered her boys. Doctor
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  Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall joining says she's a renownced psychoanalyst at Doctorbethany
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  Speaker 2: Marshall dot com. As a matter of fact, Doctor Bethany,
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  Speaker 2: I don't get it. We've got men sexting and texting
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  Speaker 2: and writing and sending money and love letters to Susan
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  Speaker 2: Smith when she is a ballfaced liar that count her
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  Speaker 2: children and the worst way letting her car, her Burgundy
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  Speaker 2: protege go down a ramp with the two little boys
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  Speaker 2: alive strapped in the back seat.
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  Speaker 1: Why I don't get it.
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  Speaker 2: Why would men want to be with this woman, send
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  Speaker 2: her money and sex text with her? But did you
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  Speaker 2: hear her lie? Do you remember when that happened? Crying
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  Speaker 2: in the snotting and all that happening. And I want
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  Speaker 2: to say you ever have my children? They please please
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  Speaker 2: bring them home to us where they belong, knowing full
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  Speaker 2: well they drowned strapped in their car seats.
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  Speaker 3: We'll show how immature she is at the most.
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  Speaker 2: Basic level that she wants the most. You could say
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  Speaker 2: she's immature. She murdered two little boys.
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  Speaker 3: We know she's a sociopath, but what beyond the fact
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  Speaker 3: that she's a sociopath, what additional factor are there that
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  Speaker 3: would lead to this? And one is an over attachment
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  Speaker 3: to men. She loves that feeling of falling in love,
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  Speaker 3: the feeling you have.
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  Speaker 1: The first s. Are you linking this to double murder?
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  Speaker 1: Why this woman did not get the death.
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  Speaker 2: Penalty, I do not know. And now there's six guys
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  Speaker 2: trying to have sex with are really ill.
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  Speaker 3: Butically it's really a pathological attachment to.
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  Speaker 2: Men, like being in a barrel with with a rattlesnake.
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  Speaker 1: Who was that?
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  Speaker 3: Well, apparently they do. And you know, women who couldn't
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  Speaker 3: have fantasie who kill their children often have some really
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  Speaker 3: First of all, they were usually what we call cluster B.
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  Speaker 2: Then or not I really have some sexy mesia going
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  Speaker 2: on because I'm totally cutting your mic.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, So their cluster B, which means they have three
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  Speaker 3: different disorders sociopathy, bipolar, and borderline. Often they have a
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  Speaker 3: very pathological attachment to men. Either they kill the children
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  Speaker 3: to get back at the object, like I'm going to
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  Speaker 3: kill her children because I'm mad at you. It's hard
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  Speaker 3: to describe this without really sounding like it's trite, but
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  Speaker 3: it's These are the underpinnings of what these women do.
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  Speaker 3: So it's either I'm going to kill the children to
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  Speaker 3: get back at you, or I'm going to kill the
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  Speaker 3: children if they found a new guy, and I don't
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  Speaker 3: want the children to be in the way.
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  Speaker 2: Interesting that you said that. Interesting, But I also want
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  Speaker 2: you to hear the level of detail that she waves
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  Speaker 2: into her big fat lie about her two murdered little boys.
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  Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. I'm more excruciating death than being
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  Speaker 2: strapped in a car, can't get out.
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  Speaker 1: The car goes underwater.
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  Speaker 2: A muddy lake, and you're in the car screaming for
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  Speaker 2: mommy as that car fills up with water till you drown.
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  Speaker 2: Listen to our cut crime online.
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  Speaker 7: On the night of October twenty fifth, Susan Smith knocks
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  Speaker 7: on the door of a house near John D. Long Lake.
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  Speaker 7: She's hysterical when the man answers the door and tells
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  Speaker 7: him to call the police. A black man just carjacked
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  Speaker 7: her at a red light. He had a gun, and
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  Speaker 7: she jumped out of the car, but her two boys,
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  Speaker 7: three year old Michael and fourteen month old Alex, are
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  Speaker 7: still in the car. Police begins searching immediately, and the
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  Speaker 7: nation's media converges on Union, South Carolina for eight days.
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  Speaker 7: Susan Smith tells an ever changing story of the carjacking,
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  Speaker 7: and friends get irritated when she keeps asking if Tom
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  Speaker 7: Findley has reached out to see her. Friends wonder why
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  Speaker 7: she would care about Findley when her two children are missing.
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  Speaker 7: On day nine of intense media pressure, Susan Smith meets
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  Speaker 7: with Union County Sheriff Howard Wells, and Wells meets with
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  Speaker 7: the press.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, note to sell who is Tom Finley? But there's more.
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  Speaker 2: There's more.
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  Speaker 1: Listen.
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  Speaker 7: Susan Smith has carried the line as far as she can.
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  Speaker 7: When she finally admits what she's done, there never was
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  Speaker 7: a black man with a gun that stole her car
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  Speaker 7: with their kids in the back. She now says she
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  Speaker 7: went out for a drive with her sons buckled into
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  Speaker 7: their car seats in the back, Feeling desperate, alone and suicidal.
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  Speaker 7: She now says she drove to John D. Long Lake
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  Speaker 7: and planned to roll the car into the lake. Smith
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  Speaker 7: puts the car in neutral, but instead of going into
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  Speaker 7: the lake with the car and the boys, she jumps
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  Speaker 7: out and watches the car sink. Based on her directions
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  Speaker 7: for where the car should be, scuba divers locate the
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  Speaker 7: vehicle with the boys in the back still buckled into
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  Speaker 7: their seats.
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  Speaker 2: Just let that so Kim for just one moment, claiming,
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  Speaker 2: you know, why is it chrismin Gunna that all these
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: people that want to commit suicide end up killing their
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  Speaker 2: children or their family or somebody else they miraculously live.
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  Speaker 8: I mean, just so horrific thought in of itself, right,
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  Speaker 8: Nancamy Night. I actually drove the entire route that Susan
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  Speaker 8: Smith took that day. There were ample opportunities for her
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  Speaker 8: to change her mind and turn around. There were stop signs,
• 17:01
  Speaker 8: they were, you know, through residential neighborhoods. And to think
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  Speaker 8: that she was saying to the public, you know, or
• 17:08
  Speaker 8: to the police when she initially confessed, well, you know,
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  Speaker 8: I thought about committing suicide, but I couldn't do it,
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  Speaker 8: et cetera. So I jumped out. You know, when you
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  Speaker 8: go to that boat ramp where these poor little babies
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  Speaker 8: are strapped in those backseats, and is that car is
• 17:23
  Speaker 8: going down that ramp. I would submit to you. She
• 17:27
  Speaker 8: had gotten out of that car almost immediately and let
• 17:31
  Speaker 8: that car go to your point a couple of minutes ago.
• 17:34
  Speaker 8: And as that water started to fill that vehicle, can
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  Speaker 8: you imagine the horror that these children were experiencing and
• 17:43
  Speaker 8: the mother standing there as that vehicle started to sink.
• 17:47
  Speaker 8: It took about six I think between six to fifteen
• 17:51
  Speaker 8: seconds for that vehicle to hit the water and within
• 17:54
  Speaker 8: a minute it was submerged.
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  Speaker 2: Yamya.
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  Speaker 3: It just shows how cold blood she is. She could
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: stand on the shore look at the car submerged and
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  Speaker 3: knowing that her babies were drowning. It really gives you
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  Speaker 3: insight into how detached and just cold blooded she is.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, who is this woman?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut three from crime online
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  Speaker 2: dot Com.
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  Speaker 7: After high school, she began dating David Smith. Soon there's
• 18:23
  Speaker 7: a baby on the way and the pair decided to
• 18:25
  Speaker 7: get married. Ultimately, they have two boys, Michael Daniel and
• 18:28
  Speaker 7: Alexander Tyler, but the children don't keep the marriage together.
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  Speaker 7: The Smith separate several times. During one of these separations,
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  Speaker 7: Susan Smith begins dating Tom Finley, the single son of
• 18:38
  Speaker 7: a wealthy mill owner.
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  Speaker 2: Ah, so that is who Tom Finley is, Okay, Tara Mallick,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: high profile lawyer joining us from our own law from
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Smith and Mallet. Would that be motive she wants to
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: be with this rich guy?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know.
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  Speaker 6: Who's painted in different ways. During the trial itself, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: there was some conflicting testimony. One of the theories of
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: the case that was put on and suspected was that
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: she wanted.
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  Speaker 1: To be with Thomas Finley.
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  Speaker 6: Finley didn't like the fact that, you know, she had
• 19:15
  Speaker 6: two kids, and in a way or in an attempt
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  Speaker 6: to get back together with Finley, who she was having
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: an affair with, you know, she drowned her two boys.
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  Speaker 6: The other testimony that was presented during the trial was that,
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: you know, she was someone who was an abused child,
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: she had had a secret affair with her stepfather, she
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: was frightened of her husband, you know. And so I
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: think those details this jury ended up grappling with. And
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: it's the case that should have been a death penalty case,
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: but unfortunately not here.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Quote she always thought it would be fun to be
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: on that show, and that when they put Anna Delvey
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: on the show, Susan felt like maybe it was the possibility.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Oh kay, I had enough of a problem with Anna Delvi,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: the fake eras who conned people out of hundreds of
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: thousands of dollars. She showed up on Dancing with the Stars,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: and then she blamed Dancing with the Stars for exploiting her. Okay,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: just these people. I can't make this up. And now
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Susan Smith is on the Dancing with the Stars train,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: oh or wants to be okay before she's cast for
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars. Can we just take a review
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: of the evidence?
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true?
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Dave Mack joining us from Crime Online dot Com that
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Finley broke it off with her claiming he did not
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: want an instant family.
• 20:50
  Speaker 8: He did, and.
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: Nanthy more to the point, are more than just saying
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: I don't want kids? There were other things he stated
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: in there about her and their relationship. He also cited
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: their different upbringings and that that was a big stumbling block.
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: Another one the way Susan Smith acted and flirted with
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: other men.
• 21:11
  Speaker 8: He didn't like that, so.
• 21:12
  Speaker 7: He mentioned three basic things that he really didn't want
• 21:15
  Speaker 7: an instant family. But these other two things were mentioned
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: as well, and one was her own behavior of hitting
• 21:21
  Speaker 7: on other men, but she dismisses that in her thought process,
• 21:24
  Speaker 7: blames it all on the kids and thinks she's seen
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: getting back if she just gets rid of that. She
• 21:28
  Speaker 7: doesn't address the fact that she hits on men all
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: the time.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: So let me understand something, Dave Matt. She met Finley,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: the son of the rich guy, when she and her
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: husband were what divorce separated?
• 21:44
  Speaker 7: What separated? They actually when they were married, they had
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: several full on separations where they were not living together,
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: were dating other people, and yet they would then get
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: back together, and it was on and off for I think,
• 22:00
  Speaker 7: I mean after they had the last time. He was
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: fourteen months old while this happened, so it was an
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: ongoing process in their relationship that breaking out getting back together.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Let me get back to doctor Bethony Marshall, what do
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: you make of this? It was always presented that family
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: broke up with her because he didn't want an instant family,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: But according to the letter he sent her before she
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: murdered her too little boys, it was a lot more
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: than that.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: He's probably minimizing it because now he has the scrutiny
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: of the country and the court and saying, well, I
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: didn't really want her anyway. But there's partially, I think
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: a half truth in that maybe he wasn't ready for
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: a family and children and he was contemplating that. And
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: I think Susan Smith was the kind of woman who
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: would just ignore the fact that he didn't want to
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: be with her. She would think, Oh, you know, i'll
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: buy any dress. Oh, i'll go shopping. Oh, i'll buy
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: some mistakes, I'll wear a low cut dress. Oh I'll
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: just kill my children. I mean just she would just
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: throw everything at it to get him back. So I
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: think if she was ambivalent about her that may have
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: even incentivized her to kill her children.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, I obviously need to reward my question. There were
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: other behaviors he found disturbing which led to his decision to.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Break it off with her.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Not only that he did not want an instant family,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: but he did not like the way she acted promiscuously
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: with other guys. He didn't want that.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I think some women relate primarily to men because they
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: feel they can seduce them, and I think this was
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: probably her mo that the minute she met a man,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: she would be furicacious, she would be overly sexualized, she
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: would try to attract them. She probably did that all
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: the time because this is a way of feeling important,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: like she's a real person in the real world, and
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: she doesn't really have to relate to the men. If
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: it's sexual in an instant then they never become real
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: people to her. They're all just objects, little objects who
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: flatter her.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Listen, now are cut for.
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: Susan Smith is planning a future with the best catch
• 24:06
  Speaker 7: in the county when she gets a Dear John letter
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: from Dear Tom. He explains he doesn't think the relationship
• 24:13
  Speaker 7: will work because of the difference in their upbringing, the
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: way she acts towards other men, and he doesn't want
• 24:18
  Speaker 7: an instant family. He doesn't want children right now. Susan
• 24:21
  Speaker 7: dismisses her upbringing or her behavior towards other men as
• 24:25
  Speaker 7: possible deal breakers in the relationship, and the only thing
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: she sees is Tom Finley doesn't want children.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: So she ignores everything except the children part of the complaint,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: and then suddenly, poof, they're gone. In the last days,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Susan Smith back in the news, apparently having a romantic
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: relationship with at least six men behind bars. Okay, what
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: does that mean? Well, there are precursors to today's report
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: of Susan Smith's relationships with six guys. What precursors will
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: listener ourcut ten.
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: A tabloid news report claiming Susan Smith had been beaten
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: by guards at a prison in South Carolina gave birth
• 25:12
  Speaker 7: to an investigation into the matter. While there was no
• 25:14
  Speaker 7: proof she had been beaten, Smith told prison investigators that
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: she had four sexual encounters Lieutenant Houston Cagele, a supervisor
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: at South Carolina's Women's Correctional Institution WCI, where she's confined.
• 25:27
  Speaker 7: Cagle admitted having sex with Smith and another prisoner and
• 25:30
  Speaker 7: was charged with the offense in August of two thousand.
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: Smith was twenty eight at the time and was disciplined
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: for having sex with the guard, while fifty year old
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: Kagel pleaded guilty and spent three months in jail. In
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: two thousand and one, a prison captain, Alfred Rowe, also
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: pleaded guilty to having sex with Smith and was sentenced
• 25:47
  Speaker 7: to five years probation. It was then discovered that Susan
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: Smith engaged in sexual relations with Cagel after she tested
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: positive for an std.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, so, she claims I was beaten and that spawns
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: an investigation, but it turns out she wasn't beaten. She
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: was sleeping with various prison guards. Just got Morgan, remind me,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: what is it like to drown? You're the death investigator
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: one of the.
• 26:12
  Speaker 9: Most horrible deaths that you can even begin to think about.
• 26:19
  Speaker 9: And the fact is, the thing that's always bothered me
• 26:22
  Speaker 9: about this case, Nancy, is that with Alex and michael on,
• 26:26
  Speaker 9: I think it's really important that I say their names
• 26:28
  Speaker 9: at this moment in time, because they are the victims.
• 26:31
  Speaker 9: When they were strapped in those little seats in the
• 26:34
  Speaker 9: back of that Mazda and that tight, little confined place
• 26:38
  Speaker 9: where maybe their mother had taken them to McDonald's before,
• 26:40
  Speaker 9: had taken them all over town, and suddenly they're at
• 26:43
  Speaker 9: the edge of a boat ramp and they're thinking, you know,
• 26:45
  Speaker 9: what's mama doing? Now? You know, she gets out of
• 26:48
  Speaker 9: the car and as that car is left and neutral
• 26:52
  Speaker 9: and goes down that boat ramp and begins to slowly
• 26:55
  Speaker 9: sink beneath those dark waters out there. You know, they
• 26:58
  Speaker 9: found that car about one hundred and twenty feet off
• 27:01
  Speaker 9: of the shore. The dive team had looked for it
• 27:05
  Speaker 9: for some period of time. Car was filled with water.
• 27:09
  Speaker 9: Those kids were still strapped in that back seat. And
• 27:11
  Speaker 9: our reaction as humans, if we're trying to catch our breath,
• 27:15
  Speaker 9: is to fight. And just imagine this, Nancy. They're strapped.
• 27:19
  Speaker 9: We've all got babies in our families that we've taken
• 27:21
  Speaker 9: care of. We strapped them in car seats. And you
• 27:25
  Speaker 9: ever seen a child struggle to get out of the
• 27:27
  Speaker 9: car seat. They're tired of being in it. Well, imagine
• 27:29
  Speaker 9: that only water's creeping up on you. Water's getting into
• 27:34
  Speaker 9: your nose, your little mouth, your eyes, You're running out
• 27:37
  Speaker 9: of oxygen. Your brain is screaming. It's on fire because
• 27:41
  Speaker 9: there's no oxygen. You can't catch your breath, and you
• 27:46
  Speaker 9: have no idea. It's panic that's setting in and it
• 27:49
  Speaker 9: would not have been. I just wanted to spell any
• 27:52
  Speaker 9: kind of fantasy somebody might be having right now that
• 27:56
  Speaker 9: this was a sudden and a quick death. It wasn't.
• 27:59
  Speaker 9: It was tortress. It was absolutely horrific what these babies
• 28:04
  Speaker 9: went through at that moment, Tom Nancy, and I'm with you.
• 28:08
  Speaker 9: I'm still to this day just befuddled why she's not
• 28:13
  Speaker 9: sitting on death row. And you know, forever and ever
• 28:17
  Speaker 9: she's getting going with her life. No isn't she and
• 28:19
  Speaker 9: those babies died, died at this monster's hands, out there
• 28:23
  Speaker 9: out there in that.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Lake, knowing full well what she did, immediately running to
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: a nearby home, claiming that an unknown male had jumped
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: into her car. And I guess the only red light
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: in the county. And I feel okay saying that because
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: where I grew up that we didn't even have a
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: red light, So out of the entire county, an unknown
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: assailant jumps into her car at the one red light,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: takes her car and murders her children. Okay, this is
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the woman these guys want to be with. Speaking of them,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: there's a matter of Captain Alfred Rowe. Now we heard
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: about Cagel Cagile, a supervisor at South Carolina Women's ci
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Correctional Institute.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: And what happened with him.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: We know that he was ultimately identified because Susan Smith
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: turned up with an std behind bars. But there's more.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut eleven. Does she not
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: realize there are consequences to actions.
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: Captain Alfred Smith was one of the guards who lost
• 29:32
  Speaker 7: their careers after having sex with Susan Smith behind bars.
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: Roe says Smith is a master manipulator, telling Inside Edition
• 29:38
  Speaker 7: that Smith approached him at three in the morning, telling
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: him she thought he was the nicest officer at the
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: prison and that she was lonely. The former guard says
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: things just escalated from there. Roe claims he only had
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: sex with Smith one time, but it cost him everything.
• 29:53
  Speaker 7: He was fired from the job, lost his pension, and
• 29:55
  Speaker 7: after pleading guilty to having sex with Smith, he was
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: sentenced to five years probation.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Take a listnour Cut twelve.
• 30:01
  Speaker 7: Sex isn't the only issue Susan Smith has faced in prison.
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: Twice in twenty ten and once in twenty fifteen, Susan
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: Smith was disciplined on drug charges, losing privileges for more
• 30:11
  Speaker 7: than a year. Susan Smith's drug use escalated when she
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: switched prisons from Camille Graham Correctional Center in Columbia, South Carolina,
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: to Leath Correctional Institution in Greenwood, South Carolina. Former prison
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: guard Alfred Rowe, who pleaded guilty to having sex with
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: Smith at the prison, told the TV show Sellmate Secrets.
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: When Smith was moved from one prison to another, that
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: it was at that point where quote she could no
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: longer get the mail attention that she used as a
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: drug unquote and instead turned to pill.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Which led to a series of drug infractions.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace. To another guy, Susan.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Smith writes, behind bar, she's raking in thousands of dollars
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: a month. She spends hours on the phone having phone sex,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: sending over twenty texts a day to these guys. Quote,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I want to be with you when I get out.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I think we all know what that means. Thank you
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: for the funds, they will come in handy. What is
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: she doing with the money behind bars? What can you
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: really even do with that? Her little boys, Michael and Alexander,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: were strapped into the car by their seat belts when
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: they were drowned, screaming for mommy. That's the last human
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: face they saw. As she rolled the car into a lake.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: She asked another guy if he would support her when
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: she was paroled. Then he does this big spreadsheet. Listen
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: to what this guy says, quote, I'll tell you what
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I did last night thinking of you. I'm sure he
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: was thinking of you.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I can't even describe what he was doing while he
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: was thinking of her. I made a spreadsheet that starts
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: out with two hundred and thirteen thousand dollars, you're gonna
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: have more than that. I think you'll be in the
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: two hundred and twenty thousand dollars range. All put together,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: you can spend forty thousand a year while you're withdrawing
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: from that balance. It's still earning interest on the undrawn amount.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: In twenty years, you will have spent most of that,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: but you'll still have some left. Smith sighs after a
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: pause and says, I love you so much. He says,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I love you too, and then they make kissy sounds. Okay, quick,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: bring back the vomit bag. This is so Susan Smith
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: really is the narrative, her story that she projects is
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: so different from reality. Life has not passed her by.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: She committed double murder. That that's what happened. It's not
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: anyone's fault but her own.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: I mean, and if life.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Has passed her by, how does she.
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: Characterize what she did to her stife. She took their
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: life away. They didn't even have the opportunity to live
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: a life. I mean, these were really young kids here,
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: and I think you know the pattern of behavior that
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: she's exhibited, like the infractions that she's picked up while
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: she's been in prison. I mean, all of this doesn't
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: tend to show that this is someone who has been
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: rehabilitated while in prison. I mean, she's still showing those
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: signs of manipulation that you know she engaged in before
• 33:30
  Speaker 6: she was convicted in Sensus, you know, leading on the
• 33:33
  Speaker 6: nation for nine days, telling lies about what actually happened,
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: telling lies and bringing fingers of people that didn't exist.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: So this is a really deeply disturbed individual.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Chris mc dunna with me, a former homicide detective and
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: host of YouTube channel The Interview Room who has investigated
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: at least three hundred homicides. You know, defendants can be very,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: very charming. Think about Scott Peterson or doctor Martin McNeil,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: who killed his wife, a beauty queen. According to Susan
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Smith's family, they say, quote she seems to be happy,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: and that she quote always had a messy love life.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: She's creating a fictional version of her life and people
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: are buying it. These guys, these lonely hearts, are buying
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: it and attempting to have let me just say, romantic
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: interludes with her. Chris McDonough. Have you ever met a
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: charming murder defendant, because I have absolutely Nancy.
• 34:42
  Speaker 8: And what's interesting about her is we have to always
• 34:46
  Speaker 8: remember that all behavior has a purpose, and that past
• 34:51
  Speaker 8: behavior is usually an indication of future behavior. So she
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: has always, throughout her entire case and through her life
• 35:01
  Speaker 8: here while in prison and even before prison, she always
• 35:05
  Speaker 8: sometimes projected the words of day into her vocabulary. And
• 35:12
  Speaker 8: if we listen real carefully to the minutia of what
• 35:15
  Speaker 8: she said in the very beginning, whoever they are, please
• 35:21
  Speaker 8: bring them home. She's talking about two suspects, but she
• 35:26
  Speaker 8: talks about one in terms of a description. And now
• 35:30
  Speaker 8: if we fast forward that to today, we have six
• 35:34
  Speaker 8: individuals men who quite frankly, I can't figure that piece
• 35:39
  Speaker 8: of a puzzle out.
• 35:40
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 35:40
  Speaker 8: That's that's for the doctors to tell us what that's
• 35:43
  Speaker 8: all about. But she is utilizing that behavior still to
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: this day, by talking about money, by talking about sexual
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: you know, TIFFs there between the two of them, and
• 36:00
  Speaker 8: she hasn't lost a thought from miss Leopard, you know.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Just Scott Morgan, maybe we just know too much when
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: it comes to murder, because when I think of Susan Smith,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I immediately think of being trapped strapped in to a car
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: as it's going down a ramp and going underwater and
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: seeing the water coming up on either side and starting
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: to pour in through the windshields. It comes up around
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: you and you can't get out. I mean, the children
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: in this case were three and fourteen months.
• 36:35
  Speaker 9: They never had stood a chance within this environment. And
• 36:39
  Speaker 9: here's another thing that people might not be aware of.
• 36:45
  Speaker 9: After that car dip beneath the surface of that water,
• 36:51
  Speaker 9: one other element we have to consider. And again I
• 36:54
  Speaker 9: go back to the idea that we all have had babies,
• 36:57
  Speaker 9: you know, parents, that sort of thing. I've got yous
• 37:00
  Speaker 9: and grandkids whom.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: I love dearly.
• 37:02
  Speaker 9: And what is it the kids are afraid of late
• 37:05
  Speaker 9: at night? It's darkness, and it would you would not
• 37:08
  Speaker 9: have been able to have seen your hand in front
• 37:11
  Speaker 9: of your face. So not only are they absent a
• 37:14
  Speaker 9: loving mother who normally you would hope would take care
• 37:18
  Speaker 9: of them, they're they're disoriented, they're running out of breath,
• 37:22
  Speaker 9: and it's dark, Nancy, it's cold and it's dark down there.
• 37:26
  Speaker 9: And that's that goes to the level of horror that
• 37:30
  Speaker 9: they're that they're you know, experiencing Susan Smith.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Just go ahead and rake in all the money you want,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: but good luck enjoying it behind bars. Do you ever
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: even think of your two little boys that you murdered?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I do, Nancy Grace, signing off, good night friend,