Latest / Simply Bitcoin / BlackRock: Bitcoin Price Should Be WAY HIGHER [EXPLAINED] | EP 1206

Transcript

BlackRock: Bitcoin Price Should Be WAY HIGHER [EXPLAINED] | EP 1206 · Simply Bitcoin

0:00
No, the largest asset manager in the world just said what we've
0:04
been feeling at this point in the cycle.
0:06
All of us have been feeling the price.
0:08
Should be way higher. But it's not.
0:12
BlackRock said the demand they're seeing isn't reflected
0:16
in the Bitcoin price. And then hours later, Bitwise,
0:20
one of the largest and oldest Bitcoin index funds, just said
0:24
that the. Bitcoin price should be at at
0:26
least. $200,000 today and Samson Mao agreed of course what
0:32
exactly is BlackRock in these institutional asset managers
0:36
seeing behind the scenes that we're not seeing today?
0:39
We're going to be exploring whether this Bitcoin bull run
0:42
has topped out or is just getting started and of course we
0:46
apologize for the delay we had some issues with our with our
0:50
streaming software but we're happy that we got it resolved
0:53
anyways joining us on the show today we have Dylan and Tyler.
0:58
Dylan and Tyler are with an awesome Bitcoin event space in
1:02
Denver. It's called bitcoins Denver's
1:04
Bitcoin Citadel, and the name of the space is called the space.
1:08
Anyways, guys, no more delay. Let's jump to let's jump into a
1:12
couple of these clips that unload everything.
1:15
And of course, to my right is my beautiful wife Internet Sophie
1:18
joining me in the Co host seat today, replacing Opti for just a
1:23
day. But anyways, guys, let's check
1:25
out this clip and then we'll talk about it.
1:26
Here we go. Is there has been so much
1:30
fundamentally positive news and it's just been buried sort of in
1:34
the background. We've we've caused ourselves to
1:37
ignore it. There's this tragic Bitcoin
1:39
reserve that the SEC pulling back on essentially every
1:42
lawsuit. There's progress on stable coin
1:44
legislation. There's talk of market structure
1:47
legislation. There was the White House crypto
1:50
summit. These are game changing positive
1:53
developments that should put Bitcoin trading at 150 or
1:57
200,000 dollars today. It's been suppressed because in
2:01
the short term this overhang of the economic uncertainty is
2:05
weighing on the markets. I think if that is released,
2:08
we're at new all time highs quickly and we're on our way to
2:11
where I think we'll be at the end of the year, which is
2:13
Bitcoin 200,000. So I think there's been this
2:16
sort of suppression of really good news.
2:19
If that is that suppression is removed, I think it's a coiled
2:22
spring. So in that scenario, I think we
2:25
do exceptionally well. Is there anything else that
2:28
needs to happen to get us to Bitcoin AT200K by the end of the
2:31
year? I don't think so.
2:32
You you have these three horsemen of insatiable demand
2:35
for Bitcoin. You have ETFs, which I continue
2:38
to think will have strong net flows this year.
2:41
You have companies. We saw MicroStrategy buying more
2:44
Bitcoin. I think the number of companies
2:46
buying Bitcoin is going to triple this year.
2:48
I think the game theory is on. It's slower than people maybe
2:52
want in this impatient crypto world, but I think countries
2:56
around the world are going to be buying Bitcoin.
2:58
So there is structurally more demand than supply in Bitcoin.
3:02
I think all we need is to release this sort of economic
3:05
gloom that's hanging over us if we.
3:11
All right, everybody, it seems like again, we're having issues
3:14
on YouTube. Seems like we're not being able
3:16
to stream on YouTube as of yet. Guys, we are working on it in
3:20
the background. Like I said, our streaming
3:22
software is having some issues these days.
3:24
But I mean, there you had the BIC, the Bitwise CEO we are
3:29
streaming on YouTube just confirmed it on the back end,
3:33
guys, sorry. We had, we had some streaming
3:36
issues on our with our software in the background today and
3:39
we're trying to fix it live. So it's a little bit
3:42
complicated. But we just played you guys the
3:44
clip of the Bitwise CEO basically saying we should be at
3:48
at least $200,000 Bitcoin. It's not happening.
3:53
It hasn't happened. I think a lot of people are
3:55
feeling a little bit underwhelmed today, including,
4:00
you know, Michael Saylor. I mean, Michael Saylor, we
4:01
played you guys a clip of him yesterday at the OR over the
4:05
week him at the future proof conference here in Miami Beach.
4:09
And he's basically saying like, look, the the macro conditions,
4:13
people are a little bit spooked. They're off risk, off assets,
4:16
they're not feeling them. But when the tides change, he
4:19
expects Bitcoin to RIP. And there you have, you know,
4:22
the CEO of a very large company basically saying the same thing.
4:26
And also you have someone from BlackRock saying the same thing
4:31
as well. I'm going to play you guys a
4:32
clip and then we'll all discuss it as a panel.
4:35
Let's check it out. For more, we're bringing in
4:38
Robbie Mitch Nick, Global head of digital assets at BlackRock,
4:41
which of course has the biggest ETF that is pegged to Bitcoin.
4:47
Robbie, it's good to see you first of all, I guess first of
4:50
all, if you can help us set have set the scene by explaining
4:53
perhaps why Bitcoin has not done better, right?
4:56
There were so many hopes pinned on this White House, the big
4:59
vibe shift, deregulation, and we have our we have seen some
5:02
actual concrete moves in that direction, but we haven't seen
5:07
price follow. Why not?
5:08
Sure. Well, I think it's important to
5:10
take some time perspective on it, right, which is Bitcoin is
5:13
still up, we call it 15% or so since the beginning of November,
5:19
right? So you saw a pretty
5:21
extraordinary rally, you know, right into the end of 2024.
5:25
You've seen Bitcoin, the crypto market give some of that back.
5:29
I think that there were maybe accelerated, perhaps premature
5:34
expectations of just how quickly some of these catalysts would
5:37
start to arrive. You know, our focus now as we
5:41
look at what's unfold in 2025 is more about the pace of
5:46
institutional and wealth advisory adoption, which, you
5:50
know, has showed frankly a lot of momentum coming into 2025 and
5:55
that hasn't really abated even in this price environment.
5:58
So I mean. Given that, what do Bitcoin ETF
6:01
flows look like? What have they looked like?
6:03
What do you expect ahead? Yeah, Well, obviously 2024 was
6:07
pretty incredible, pretty historic on that front. 2025 to
6:11
start has been more negative. We've seen some outflows in the
6:15
category a relatively modest in the context of the overall asset
6:19
base which is close to 100 billion, you know just over a
6:23
year into into their existence. A lot of that outflow that we've
6:28
seen so far seems to be a little bit of hedge fund unwinding of
6:35
the spot futures arbitrage trade and less so in sort of the more
6:42
long buy and hold directional investors that make up the fund.
6:46
So you've seen the yield that hedge funds were clipping in
6:49
that trade, you know, go from double digits to low single
6:53
digits. And that's I think a lot of
6:55
what's driven some of the outflows we've seen.
6:57
Probably, as you know, there are a lot of different reasons that
6:59
people buy and hold Bitcoin. But as you also know, it's
7:02
frequently referred to as digital gold, right, a store of
7:05
value. Here we are in a period of time
7:07
where people are feeling nervous about the economy and it's not
7:12
performing like gold. Gold is performing like gold.
7:14
People are buying gold, but they're not buying Bitcoin.
7:17
Can you help explain what's going on there?
7:21
Yeah, I think it's a fascinating thing, Julie.
7:23
What we've seen is if you look at Bitcoin fundamentally on a
7:28
long term basis, it really seems like an asset that should be
7:33
uncorrelated or even inversely correlated against certain risk
7:37
factors that exist, right? But there are periods where it
7:42
does have these short term correlation spikes.
7:45
And what's interesting is some of what we've seen lately seems
7:50
to be self fulfilling and actually a self-inflicted wound
7:54
by some of the research and commentary that the industry
7:58
does leaning into this idea of it as a risk on asset at times,
8:03
which really doesn't make a lot of fundamental sense when you
8:05
think about what it is. It's a global, scarce, non
8:08
sovereign decentralized asset that exists.
8:14
I'm going to stop it right there.
8:15
By the way, it seems like the YouTube stream dropped today
8:18
again, it seems like our our streaming software is having an
8:21
issue. But the good news is we are live
8:23
on X and we are live on Rumble. So you guys could catch today's
8:26
show on Rumble and X live and we will re upload the version, the
8:30
full version later today on YouTube.
8:33
So if you guys are on YouTube, you can watch it there anyways,
8:36
if you guys are enjoying the show so far almost 1000 live
8:39
viewers despite all the technical difficulties smash the
8:42
like button. I mean so many people have
8:44
different reasons right? The bit the bitwise CEO is
8:47
basically talking about hey look like I don't understand I don't
8:51
get it. You know this thing should be at
8:53
200 K. Also, if you take a look at the
8:56
comments, Samson Mao agreed, he said we both agree it should be
9:01
at I love how Samson puts it at point 2,000,000 by now.
9:05
I 100% agree with that. So, yeah, I mean, I, I it
9:09
without a doubt, I think a lot of people are, you know, a
9:13
little bit disappointed with Bitcoin's current performance,
9:16
especially in this cycle. I remember I was talking to some
9:19
of our guests today, specifically Tyler.
9:21
Tyler, this is your first bull run.
9:23
I feel like you're like, oh man, this is not what I was promised.
9:27
This is not what I was expecting.
9:28
So what's your take on all this, Tyler?
9:30
Are are Bitcoin's best days behind it?
9:34
Best days are not behind it. First and foremost, excited to
9:37
be here. This is my first bull run, so I
9:39
don't really have any context missed out on the, the ribs in
9:42
2017 and whatnot. But you know, my impression of
9:45
all this is the people who expected all these things, all
9:49
this winning to happen, right? The strategic Bitcoin reserve,
9:52
fair asset accounting, etcetera. They, you know, bought the
9:56
market predicting this early on. And so when, when it was all
10:00
announced, there was literally no one else that was like, oh,
10:02
shocked by this news. It had already happened.
10:04
It was already being expected. So maybe they sold the, the top,
10:07
the 100K, they took their whatever gains, their 50%
10:10
returns, a lot of those ETF asset holders.
10:12
That would be my prediction. And you know, there, there's
10:16
just nothing else guys like me can do.
10:18
My, my checking account already has $0.00 in it and my credit
10:20
card balance is negative. So what am I supposed to do?
10:25
100% and you're, you're doing it the right way, right?
10:29
And you know, my, my checking account is negative.
10:32
I can't, I can't buy any more Bitcoin.
10:33
That's the way that's the right way to do it.
10:35
Everyone pays their dues. You have to do that as a
10:38
bitcoiner. If, if you don't have any
10:40
overdraft fees, you haven't done it right.
10:42
Anyways, I'm going to pass it on to Dylan.
10:45
Dylan, thank you so much for joining us today.
10:47
A little bit of a technical, little bit of a technical
10:49
difficulty before we went on air.
10:53
We are live on Rumble. We are live on X YouTube seems
10:56
to be down. Sorry guys are streaming
10:58
software. Literally dropped the ball right
11:00
before we hit the live button. So Dylan, what is your take on
11:05
all this? Well First off, I think restream
11:07
is just trying to keep the signal low, you know, and block
11:11
out all the streams. But I don't know personally,
11:14
like I hate the ETFSI think they are kind of detrimental to
11:18
Bitcoin in that they could kill mining in a sense if a bunch of
11:23
on chain activity moves to ETS. It's essentially like the worst
11:27
version of exchange. I mean, I think right now it's
11:30
just a great time to continue learning about Bitcoin and, you
11:35
know, diving into the fundamentals and kind of just
11:38
staying away from the noise. Like, I agree we should be much
11:41
higher, but I mean, there's more sellers than buyers right now,
11:45
unfortunately, although I think it should be the other way
11:49
around. That's why we have, you know,
11:52
community spaces like the space to teach people about Bitcoin
11:55
and custody of their own keys and stay out of the ETFs and
11:59
just, you know, stack stack sets. 100%, I mean stay humble
12:05
stack sets. And do you think that's what it
12:07
is? You think that there's just more
12:08
sellers and buyers. I mean, like it's, it's a little
12:12
strange that, you know, Bitcoin's price action is doing
12:15
this specifically on the day that, you know, specifically,
12:20
you know, a week after we're finding out that the US
12:23
government is going to be has every intention to make a
12:27
Bitcoin strategic reserve and also buy additional Bitcoin.
12:31
Do you have any? Do you have a take on that?
12:33
I mean, options markets are way beyond my head.
12:38
So who knows what's going on with like CME stuff going on and
12:42
people shorting it, people going long.
12:46
Unfortunately, like our whole system is a big black box that
12:49
you don't get to see through the other side.
12:51
You don't know what the other teams are doing.
12:53
So it's, it's anyone's guess. I don't really have a good take
12:56
on that. Just the best thing we can do is
13:00
custody your own coins, get off exchanges, get out of ETFs, like
13:03
use unchanged. So you, you know, you have real
13:05
Bitcoin and that potentially paper Bitcoin.
13:07
Absolutely real Bitcoin. Real Bitcoin is Bitcoin in self
13:11
custody? I'm going to pass it on to
13:12
Sophie. Sophie, what's your opinion on
13:15
all this? You know, I actually never
13:18
considered Dylan's opinion here, which is that ETFs might be
13:23
taking off some of the trading action on chain.
13:27
And that's actually a very good point because a lot of the
13:29
people who are buying ETFs are these, you know, older Gen.
13:33
X or Boomers who might have a little bit more of disposable
13:37
income, who, you know, instead of buying on chain and actually
13:41
moving the price of Bitcoin. There are, you know, basically
13:45
buying fake Bitcoin through traditional finance.
13:49
At first I thought, you know, it's good because it'll get
13:52
people exposed. It gets their feet wet, it gets
13:54
their feet in the water. But ultimately that might
13:58
actually be the reason that the the price isn't moving up.
14:02
What it could also indicate is this is something that you and I
14:06
have talked about, which is the end of cycles.
14:09
Maybe this means that instead of seeing that 300X or 300 percent,
14:15
3X, which we usually see in the cycles, we're only going to see
14:19
a 50% increase over time, which is great news for Hodlers and
14:24
people who are actually saving in Bitcoin.
14:26
It's great news for Bitcoin adoption in the long run, but it
14:29
just means that we're going to have to be a little bit more
14:31
patient is as Bitcoiners and not expect this thing to to RIP, you
14:37
know, as as soon as possible. 100% I think that's a that's a
14:41
great point. Anyways, guys, let us know in
14:44
the comments what you guys think specifically on Rumble.
14:47
Do you guys think that the the Bitcoin bull run is over?
14:50
It's done and got cut up short? Do you think it's still going to
14:53
keep keep going? Do you think this is the end of
14:55
cycles? Let us know your thoughts in the
14:57
X chat or in the Rumble chat. But anyways, guys, we have a jam
15:02
packed show for you guys. So much to cover, so much to
15:05
unpack. We have a video of American
15:07
Huddle basically saying fuck the price, she shouldn't be paying
15:11
attention to the price. He feels as bullish as ever.
15:15
And so we have an update for you guys regarding Bolivia and
15:19
Russia. Seems like Bolivia's following
15:23
in the footsteps of Russia and using Bitcoin for energy
15:27
imports. I think this is a trend they're
15:29
going to continue to see all around the world.
15:32
And of course, during the culture segment, we're going to
15:34
be talking to our guests today about what they're doing in
15:38
Denver. They're absolutely building.
15:40
They're building something called the space and it's
15:43
Denver's Bitcoin Citadel. So if you guys ever went to
15:45
Bitcoin Park in Nashville, it's something very similar, but in
15:50
the city of Denver. So it's going to be be a great
15:51
show. So guys, sit back, relax, enjoy
15:54
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All right everybody, we are back.
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At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is $84,640.
18:58
Block height 888,505 sats per dollar 1181 market cap 1.68
19:06
trillion Bitcoin versus gold market cap 7.85% Percentage
19:10
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19:33
this epic video from American Huddle because I know you guys
19:36
are all feeling what we're feeling.
19:39
Just come on the price, The price action absolutely sucks
19:42
ass. Let's see what American Huddle
19:44
has to think. Yo, we're running up the score.
19:50
Hey, fuck the fact that the price is 86 K.
19:52
It doesn't fucking matter where we're going.
19:54
We don't need fucking roads, all right?
19:56
The price is going to 860,000 and it's going to 8.6 million,
20:00
then it's going to 86 million. You think I give a fuck if you
20:03
don't have a Bitcoin, you can get one now for the price of a
20:05
Mercedes, all right? Lot of you have a fucking
20:09
Mercedes or a BMW and you don't have a fucking Bitcoin.
20:13
Lot of you have a cyber truck and you don't have a fucking
20:15
Bitcoin. A lot of you have a fucking
20:18
shitty condo and you don't have a Bitcoin.
20:21
A lot of you have a four O 1K and you don't have a Bitcoin.
20:24
Price of bitcoin's only 86 K Bitch, the SPR just fucking
20:28
launched. You got an SPR.
20:30
The price has already been over $100,000 before.
20:34
The price is going to $1,000,000.
20:35
BlackRock is telling you it's going to $700,000.
20:39
BlackRock is adding percentage allocations to all of their
20:43
portfolios and you don't want to buy a fucking Bitcoin.
20:46
I have no simple empathy for you dude.
20:48
Don't come back to me in 20 years and tell me that I have
20:52
shit that you should have. You don't have anything that you
20:55
didn't deserve. You have exactly what you
20:58
deserve. And so do I.
21:00
Fix your fucking life. Buy your fucking Bitcoin. 86,
21:03
KSPR. It's on sale.
21:06
Ross over. It's out of prison.
21:08
We can do whatever the fuck we want.
21:09
We're going to run the table for the next 30 years.
21:11
Nobody can stop us. It's Bitcoin forever,
21:14
motherfucker. Everything we do is going to
21:16
succeed. Everything we do is going to
21:18
succeed. Oh, we were a factor in this
21:20
election. We're about to be a factor in
21:21
every fucking election forever. Till the end of time. 1000 years
21:28
Bitcoin, 1000 years fuck with us.
21:31
I mean, that makes me feel incredibly, incredibly bullish.
21:35
The community reacted super well.
21:37
I'm going to pass it on to Sophie.
21:38
Sophie, you, you seem touched by what Mr. Hoddle said.
21:42
I was, I was very touched when I saw this video.
21:45
Actually. It lifted my spirits so much.
21:47
And this is my official petition.
21:50
All of the Super cool Bitcoin DJs out there.
21:53
Please sample this. Please put this in a song
21:56
because that's just like, it's so moving what he said.
22:00
And it just, it took my head out of the gutter and it was like,
22:02
yeah, actually everything that you just said, yeah, actually
22:08
what am I worrying about again? I'm I'm like dreaming of 100K
22:12
Bitcoin again and I'm like, damn, it sucks.
22:14
Like we're not there, but who cares?
22:16
We're post SBR Ross is free. We're about to hit $8.6 million
22:23
Bitcoin. Maybe not now, but like in a
22:25
couple eventually because that's just the nature of Bitcoin.
22:28
The nature of Bitcoin is to go up and to the right forever.
22:32
So watching that video just put my worries at ease and I'm sure
22:37
that it lifted a lot of maxi spirits out there. 100%, I think
22:41
that's an incredible, incredible take by Internet, Sophie.
22:44
I'm going to pass it on to our guests.
22:46
I'm going to start with you, Tyler.
22:47
Tyler, what are your thoughts on Hoddle's wisdom?
22:49
Because that's really what it was.
22:51
It was Hoddle's wisdom, Tyler. I, I love that clip.
22:54
It. It makes me think of, you know,
22:56
that that moment in Talladega nights where Ricky Bobby's like,
22:59
I don't know what to do with my hands when he wins and he's just
23:02
like trying to, you know, he's supposed to talk in front of the
23:04
crowd. That's us.
23:05
We're getting everything we want, right?
23:06
All the stuff that Sophie just outlined.
23:08
It's like what are we complaining about?
23:10
Also I love that clip because I drive a shitty 30 year old
23:13
pickup truck so it makes me feel like I'm on the right track
23:15
personally. I think you're doing it right,
23:18
bro. You're doing it the Bitcoin way,
23:20
right? Which is just, you know, you'd
23:22
stay humble. Stacks ATS, leave live below
23:25
your means and stack as much Bitcoin as humanly possible.
23:29
I'm going to pass it on to Dylan.
23:31
Dylan, what are your thoughts on that epic clip from American
23:35
Huddle? I mean, just like inject that
23:38
energy into my veins. How can you not be bullish right
23:42
now? Like I know price action is
23:44
boring, but I don't, I'm, I think I'm numb to it at this
23:47
point. I've written up, written down
23:50
and now I'm just stacking sats about it.
23:53
Like the only thing I care about is that we have enough sats to
23:56
pay rent at the space. But beyond that, I I really
24:01
don't care. Everything will come eventually.
24:04
Like why are you complaining that you're getting stats for a
24:08
discount right now when we all know we should be higher based
24:11
on all the news that's happening so.
24:14
The ultimate ultimate low time preference.
24:16
I 100% agree, man. It's, it's, it's, it's the
24:21
opportunity of a lifetime, like you said, man, and very, very
24:24
exciting times. And you know, I, I, I agree, I,
24:29
I agree with Otto. We're we're going to win, we're
24:31
going to win so hard and it's going to go to 800 K and then
24:33
it's going to go to 8 million. I think, I think a lot of us,
24:37
you know, had expectations that Bitcoin would be a lot higher by
24:41
now. And I think that's where a
24:42
little bit of the frustration comes into play.
24:44
And again, if you do the comparisons between the previous
24:47
cycles and the current cycle, then you know, you see like, you
24:52
know, there, there are, there are major differences like you
24:54
can't deny that, right? But I think this is kind of like
24:58
the name of the game a lot of people.
25:00
Or if you guys, I'm going to get your guys takes on this, I'm
25:02
going to get my wife's takes on this after this too.
25:05
Like are the cycles over? Tyler, I'm going to pass it on
25:09
to you. I've been wondering about that.
25:12
I think we really won't know until the next bear because with
25:16
the ETF, with the likes of the ETF like, OK, it's the inflow of
25:19
capital is much easier, but that also means the outflow is much
25:23
easier as well. So I, I don't know how that will
25:25
play out. I do think that there is kind of
25:27
this asymptotic, you know, decay return.
25:32
So the the gains each cycle should kind of reduce over time
25:36
as each cycle plays out eventually that that might just
25:38
reflect a cycle that doesn't look like a cycle at all, right.
25:42
So as Sophie was saying earlier, eventually it may just look like
25:45
you, you can't distinguish like a repetitive 4 year pattern
25:48
anymore. I don't know if we're there yet
25:50
though. We'll have to see this bear.
25:52
I don't know. I don't know.
25:53
Maybe, maybe it's the start of a new bear.
25:56
Dylan, what? What's your take on this?
25:58
Are you taking the the huddle approach?
26:00
Are you taking the you know what what the F?
26:03
We should be a lot higher by now.
26:05
I mean, yes to both. I would be really content with
26:10
just like a slow climb like blow off tops are awesome.
26:14
But you know, if we just have a slow climb that lessens the
26:16
chance of a 50% drop, which, you know, would hurt a little more
26:21
now that I'm fully Bitcoin. But beyond that, I mean, I think
26:26
Tyler's right that cycle cycles are dead or might be dead.
26:30
It's I want to look back at like 2017 cycle and be like, yeah,
26:35
that's coming. But I don't know.
26:37
I think with more adoption that kind of lessens the blow off top
26:41
and gets us more to it to gradual and less less suddenly
26:45
unfortunately. Yeah, 100% unfortunately, Yeah,
26:50
I agree with you, but but we all could be wrong here because this
26:53
also reminds me of this is giving me 2017 vibes.
26:57
If you guys, any of you guys were around for 20/17, it was
27:00
very, very similar. I know, I know, Sophie, you were
27:02
around for 2017 and it was the beginning would be January,
27:07
February was extremely boring, like it was extremely boring.
27:11
Nothing was happening January, February, March, you know the
27:14
price, what it had volatility, but it was, it was hanging
27:17
around the 1K region, right? And it wasn't until like the,
27:23
you know, two, it wasn't until like mid year that things
27:27
started to picking up that things start picking up.
27:29
And then by the end of the year you saw bang $20,000 Bitcoin.
27:33
If I would have told you that in the beginning of January, at the
27:36
beginning of 2017, you would not have believed me.
27:39
You have been like, you are crazy.
27:40
What do you mean at 20X? That is absolutely nuts.
27:43
So I think everything is aligning, Everything's fitting
27:47
into place. And I think that's where you
27:49
hear the frustration from the Bitwise CEO.
27:52
That's why Michael Saylor is saying what he's saying.
27:54
That's why the BlackRock representative is saying like,
27:56
you know what? Like, yeah, like, you know, I
27:59
think it's, it's, it's undervalued based on the
28:02
fundamentals, based on what's going on, what's going on
28:05
around. Like the the fact that the
28:06
United States government is putting a rubber stamp of
28:09
approval I think is a big effing deal.
28:11
Sophie thoughts? Well, I think that Bitcoin
28:14
always does the opposite of what people think and that's why
28:17
we're in this predicament now. I am not sure if the cycles are
28:23
over. I think that's certainly a good
28:25
hypothesis and one that Bitcoiners could work with
28:29
because we plan on being on a Bitcoin standard and for hyper
28:32
bitcoinization to be the thing. And in order for that to happen,
28:35
I think that the price does need to stabilize a little bit and it
28:39
needs to kind of be consistent for a longer period of time.
28:43
However, however, one of the things that hasn't started yet
28:49
is the government hasn't yet bought Bitcoin.
28:52
And I think that as soon as that starts happening and the
28:56
Department of Government efficiency starts moving some of
29:00
the unused or wasted funds from Fiat to Bitcoin, I think that's
29:06
when we're going to start seeing a little bit of the price action
29:09
happen. But in reality, we just don't
29:12
know. And anybody who tells you they
29:13
do know the you know, they're lying to you.
29:16
And Bitcoin, really it's it's the it's the meme.
29:19
Honey badger don't care. It's going to do whatever it
29:21
wants. And whatever we predict us, you
29:24
know, mortal humans is likely not what's going to happen.
29:29
And you know, as Elon likes to say, the most absurd outcome is
29:34
likely the one to happen. So I guess we're just going to
29:37
have to wait and see exactly how the market kind of adapts also
29:43
to the adoption of Bitcoin because this is the first time
29:46
where so many Bitcoin products have been available on the
29:51
traditional market. So I think, I think, you know,
29:54
everybody is kind of like adapting to the idea that
29:59
Bitcoin is here to stay. And with that, we we will just
30:04
have to wait and see. Yeah, let's see.
30:06
Let's see what happens. I, I'm, I'm extremely
30:09
optimistic. I think the the cycles might be
30:11
extended. I still think we're going to
30:13
have a great 2025. I think Bitcoin's going to
30:16
surprise everybody. The general sentiment is just
30:19
overly bearish. Like if you see the greed and
30:22
fear index, it's like all the way to the fear side of things.
30:26
Like people are just scared. I think also the Trump
30:29
presidency coming in, creating uncertainty in the markets that
30:33
definitely, you know, has a, has a role to play for sure.
30:36
So anyhow, none of this matters if you have low time preference,
30:40
if you stay humble, stack sats and you have an opportunity to
30:43
stack Bitcoin under 100K. And I think a lot of people
30:48
would have loved to have that opportunity.
30:50
Anyways, guys, we're going to move on to news.
30:53
We have tons to cover today. We'll be right back.
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Anyways, let's get to today's news.
33:30
I mean, this is the game theory playing out.
33:33
We read you guys an article coming out of Russia.
33:37
Russia leans on crypto currencies for oil trade.
33:40
We read you guys. Here are the key points.
33:43
A crypto small but growing part of Russia's $192 billion oil
33:47
trade. Crypto used to smooth
33:49
conversions of yuan and rupees to rubles.
33:52
Russia oil companies have used tether, Bitcoin and ether,
33:56
sources say. So more news coming out.
34:00
Bolivia turns to crypto, so for energy imports amid dollar and
34:05
fuel shortages goes on to say Bolivia's state energy firm
34:09
YPFYPFB will use cryptocurrency to pay for energy imports amid a
34:17
painful shortage of dollars in fuel in the landlocked,
34:20
landlocked South African nation. A company spokesperson and
34:24
government official toward Reuters on Wednesday.
34:26
The country is battling a dangerous slide in foreign
34:30
currency reserves after years. So it seems like Dylan.
34:34
Let me bring up Dylan. There we go.
34:38
After years of dwindling exports of natural gas, which has
34:41
sparked off a fuel crisis in the country with regular long lines
34:45
at gas stations and scattered protests.
34:49
A spokesperson for a state-run energy firm why PFB toward
34:54
Reuters that a system has been put in place to use
34:57
cryptocurrency to purchase fuel imports after a government
35:01
approval to use digital assets to help meet demand.
35:06
Quote from now on these cryptocurrency transactions will
35:09
be carried out. A government spokesperson said
35:12
that why PFB had not made had not yet made use of digital
35:17
currency to purchase energy imports, but that it was planned
35:21
to do so. Bolivia, for decades a net
35:25
energy exporter due to its large reserves of gas, has become
35:29
reliant on imports as domestic gas production has dwindled amid
35:33
a lack of major new finds. So again, you have another
35:37
indication. I didn't specify exactly, you
35:41
know what, what crypto currencies are going to use, but
35:43
I mean, there really is there really only is a a good one to
35:47
use if you want to, if you want to facilitate international
35:51
trade. Of course, that is Bitcoin.
35:53
That's not me just theorizing that that's, you know, proof is
35:56
in the pudding. The news coming out of Russia,
35:59
same publisher saying the same thing.
36:02
And again, they can use Tether and they can use ether.
36:05
But if they want something that is fully decentralized, meaning
36:09
it can't be Co opted by another nation state to potentially
36:12
censor transactions, they want to use something that can't be
36:16
Co opted. And of course, the only thing
36:18
that exists is Bitcoin because it's the only thing that is
36:21
truly decentralized. So anyways, I'm going to pass it
36:24
on to Tyler. Tyler, what are your thoughts on
36:27
this man? Very interesting.
36:29
I mean, this is a game theory playing out right in front of
36:31
our faces, not surprising at all whatsoever.
36:35
But what? What are your thoughts?
36:37
I have an interesting take on this.
36:38
SO Bitcoin is energy money, right?
36:41
Takes energy to get it. Proof of work.
36:43
And so if you're a small country with natural resources like this
36:47
one that you just outlined, but they're running out of natural
36:49
gas, you better hope that you got a lot of that energy money
36:52
before you run out of those resources, because then you're
36:54
going to have to use that energy money to trade it for actual
36:57
energy. And that's what you see here in
36:58
this this article, right? They're trading energy money for
37:02
energy because they're out of energy.
37:03
So I would say that's a call to action for any country that
37:06
knows that they have limited natural resources.
37:09
Convert that into a digital representation of the energy
37:12
used to accrue that that value and then use it to set yourself
37:17
up best for the future. And it just showcases right that
37:20
the people that in all these countries that are fighting
37:23
about currencies, things like that.
37:25
If you just have your own natural resources be a
37:28
hydroelectric, volcanic energy, right, geothermal like you see
37:31
in El Salvador, you don't need someone's permission to go set
37:35
up a currency. Oh, I need to get the euro and
37:38
become part of the EU or BRICS or whatever it is you can.
37:41
There is a neutral and ethical digital currency out there
37:44
called Bitcoin. And if you have energy and
37:46
resources and a productive society, you can convert that
37:49
into currency that can be used to trade and facilitate
37:52
commerce. It's very fascinating to see.
37:54
I look forward to the day when you know, a barrel of oil is
37:57
priced in Bitcoin. That'll be a really good, good
37:59
one. I think it's going to happen
38:01
sooner than later, man. I think it's an inevitability
38:04
that it's going to happen anyways.
38:06
Dylan, what's your take on this? Will Bitcoin be?
38:10
Will oil be priced in in Bitcoin?
38:13
I mean, absolutely it's, I think that's an inevitability and this
38:17
is just one more step down that road.
38:21
I mean, eventually with that first article you were showing
38:24
in Russia using it to smooth out conversions between yuan and
38:29
ruble rubles, Like, why just cut out the middle man, You know,
38:34
just just for what it is. But like, it's awesome to see
38:40
it. But also I love the dichotomy
38:41
of, I know Forex exchange and everything, but I love the
38:45
dichotomy of we're running out of dollars even though we're
38:48
printing dollars left and right. It was just kind of funny to see
38:53
that transpose side by side. But yeah, I'm really excited.
38:57
I do think energy will eventually be priced in Bitcoin.
39:01
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think everything will
39:03
be will be priced in Bitcoin eventually anyway.
39:06
Sophie, I'm going to pass it on to you.
39:07
Do you have any thoughts regarding this news?
39:09
I mean, I feel like it's the game theory playing out in real
39:11
time. Not surprising at all if he
39:15
understands bitcoins. If you understand Bitcoins
39:17
incentives. Yeah, I don't think this is
39:19
about running out of dollars at all.
39:22
I think this is really just about using a better currency.
39:27
And I mean, that's kind of what it boils down to.
39:30
And I can't wait for the rest of South America to adopt Bitcoin
39:36
and to use this as their medium of exchange.
39:38
I think actually this is a great way for all countries to trade.
39:43
Why should we be pricing things in dollars when the dollar is
39:47
losing value year after year? Why can't we trade in a currency
39:51
that actually accumulates or sorry, increases in value over
39:56
time? I think, you know, eventually
39:59
all roads are going to lead to the adoption of Bitcoin.
40:02
I think it's just common sense. And it's not just going to be
40:06
gas. It's going to be our food.
40:07
It's going to be everything that we trade around the world.
40:12
It will be priced in Bitcoin eventually, or at least that's
40:14
the theory. 100% I, I 100% agree with that and I think it's an
40:19
inevitability. I think what's interesting too,
40:22
and I kind of want to open up the floor to this discussion
40:24
too, is what we've been seeing in developing countries is
40:28
really like the wide the, the mass adoption of stable coins,
40:31
specifically Tether, USDT, I believe it's a stepping stone, I
40:36
believe tethers a Trojan horse to Bitcoin.
40:38
I think the initial theory from a lot of Bitcoiners was that
40:42
Bitcoin was going to be the one that was going to be mass
40:44
adopted specifically in countries that have stable Fiat
40:47
currencies. But that doesn't seem to have
40:49
played out that way. It seems like something played
40:52
out in a much in a much different fashion, which is a
40:56
stable mass stablecoin adoption. Now, I don't think that's a bad
40:59
thing because I think once you get a once you get exposure to
41:03
stablecoins, it gives you exposure to digital wallets and
41:06
you're just one stepping stone away from, you know, downloading
41:09
a Bitcoin wallet. And I think also something to
41:11
keep in mind as well is that in developing countries, people are
41:14
like trying to survive, right? And unfortunately with Bitcoin,
41:17
I mean, not fortunately, I love the volatility.
41:19
Volatility's life, right? But if you're living paycheck to
41:23
paycheck, you know, you don't have the luxury, the financial
41:26
privilege of being able to shoulder that volatility because
41:30
it might work to your favor one month or two months, but one
41:34
month you might be 25% down and you can't afford 25% down. 20.
41:38
You being 25% down on your salary that month is the
41:42
difference between you being able to put food on the table or
41:45
you not being able to put food on the table.
41:47
So it makes total sense why this is happening, but I think once
41:51
people get exposure to digital wallets, when people get the
41:54
taste of being able to send money seamlessly without having
41:58
to ask the government or a bank for permission, I think all
42:02
roads inevitably lead to Bitcoin.
42:03
So I'm going to open it up to you, Tyler.
42:06
Tyler, what are your thoughts on a lot of stablecoin usage,
42:10
specifically in developing countries?
42:13
I think you hit the nail on the head.
42:14
I think volatility is part of it, like you outlined.
42:16
And then also name recognition. Remember, Bitcoin doesn't have
42:19
any marketing department, the US dollar.
42:21
That name carries some weight. And I think these people that
42:24
are in these countries with even worse Fiat currencies than the
42:29
US dollar, they're just focused on solving that immediate
42:31
problem, which is maybe, maybe my paycheck is worth 25% less
42:35
this month compared to last. And they don't need to
42:37
understand the the same issues underlie the US dollar as well.
42:41
They're just focused on what's right in front of them and as
42:43
would anyone that would be in this situation.
42:45
So I think that's a lot of the reason why stablecoins seem like
42:48
just the the next step alternative, the solution for
42:51
their immediate problems at hand.
42:52
Even though we know, I know that bitcoins kind of the ultimate
42:54
solution, I agree with you. It's kind of a stepping stone.
42:57
What's your take on this, Dylan? I mean, so I think it was in the
43:02
news this last week, I think it was Argentina, but I forget like
43:07
the bank, if you were a citizen holding dollars in the bank,
43:10
they just cashed out your dollars and gave you a
43:14
discounted rate on whatever their currency is.
43:18
And it's like, so obviously the government wants dollars.
43:21
So if I can get this less sensorable version of dollars,
43:28
then I want to, I want to do it, but in a way that the government
43:30
can't just rug me on it. So that I think adds to the
43:35
demand for stable coins. And like you said, as people get
43:39
more exposure to digital wallets, then they see, oh, look
43:44
at Bitcoin over here. But like bitcoins for Bitcoin is
43:49
a saving technology in my opinion.
43:50
And if you don't have the ability to save, first and
43:53
foremost, like you're probably not going to look into Bitcoin.
43:56
You want to save in something that can't be taken, can't be
44:00
devalued. I mean, I know the dollar, but
44:01
relative to other South American currencies, I totally get it.
44:06
But like you said, it's just a stepping stone into getting into
44:10
Bitcoin. 100 percent, 100% Anyways, I do want to give a
44:15
shout out to the live stream almost 2000 of you guys watching
44:18
live on X and 180 of you guys watching live on rumble.
44:23
Appreciate the audience. From.
44:26
We had a little bit of a technical difficulty with
44:28
YouTube earlier on today. Unfortunately we weren't aren't
44:31
able to live stream to YouTube today, but we are live streaming
44:33
on X and Rumble and we will be reposting the entire episode
44:38
later today on YouTube. So if you guys are enjoying the
44:40
show so far, make sure to smash that like button and consider
44:44
subscribing if you guys are enjoying the show anyhow,
44:48
anyways, guys, we're going to move on to the culture segment
44:51
and we're going to be talking to Tyler and Dylan about what they
44:55
are working on in Denver. It's called the Denver space,
45:00
the space, Denver's Bitcoin citadel.
45:03
The space is a member run operated Bitcoin community.
45:06
So we're going to be doing a deep dive into their project,
45:09
what they're working on and. If you live in Denver,
45:12
potentially how you can get involved yourself.
45:15
All right, everybody, we will be right back.
45:17
We're going to hit the culture segment.
45:20
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All right, everybody, so let's talk about Denver's Bitcoin
47:26
Citadel, the space. I'm going to pass it on to you,
47:29
Tyler. Tyler, what is this?
47:31
Why should people care? What?
47:32
What am I looking at? Denver's own Bitcoin citadel,
47:36
Tyler. Yeah, so the space is a Bitcoin
47:39
hub here in the Rocky Mountain Front Range.
47:42
We do Co working during the day educational events every
47:44
Thursday, member exclusive events and benefits the whole
47:48
like it's this physical hub right this citadel very much
47:51
akin to Bitcoin park the Commons in Austin pub key.
47:55
There's now Presidio out in San Francisco.
47:58
There's a handful of other ones popping up around the the world
48:01
and it's exciting to see. And you know, we had that same
48:04
idea that has been done before, which is essentially Bitcoin
48:08
communities in person, physical connections and relationship
48:11
building help advance the industry, help build companies,
48:15
build relationships, accelerate adoption.
48:18
And it's really just something we're all passionate about.
48:20
And so we have been working on this for the better part of two
48:23
years now. We have only been open in that
48:25
location for around six months and so it's really exciting to
48:30
see. We called it the space.
48:31
There's a whole story behind that too.
48:33
Kind of confuses people when they say what do you do in the
48:35
space, like the industry? And we stuck with that as a
48:38
little marketing ploy, but it's been really fun.
48:42
Absolutely. I mean, dude, it's so cool what
48:44
you guys are doing. I'm a big, a big fan of, of
48:47
Bitcoin Park and I'm, I'm glad that this like Bitcoin spaces
48:51
are are popping up all over the world, all over the US.
48:55
So this is really cool what you guys are doing.
48:58
Sophie, do you have something? Yeah, I feel like these are
49:01
going to be like the new country clubs, you know what I'm saying?
49:03
Like before people would sign up for like, you know, going to
49:07
play tennis or golf or whatever. Like now people are just going
49:10
to like, congregate and talk about Bitcoin and like maybe go
49:13
for a hike or, you know, do sauna or banya or like cold
49:17
plunge therapy. And that's going to be like the
49:19
new recreational thing while talking about Bitcoin. 100
49:24
percent, 100% agree with that. Anyways, Dylan, what's your take
49:27
on this man? And so you joined Tyler on
49:30
building this out. I, I do want to show a picture
49:33
of the space 'cause it looks absolutely awesome that outside
49:37
space, you know, it's really, really cool.
49:40
So Dylan. Yeah, and also with that
49:43
picture, we just added some string lights so we'll be
49:46
hanging out spring and summertime and, you know, having
49:49
some some drinks kicking out back there.
49:52
But like the space is awesome. We, we have a pretty good
49:56
Bitcoin crowd in Denver and we would meet monthly at like a
49:59
Bitcoin and beer at a brewery or bit devs.
50:02
And then a bunch of us started talking like, hey, we want to do
50:05
this more often. And so we hustled.
50:09
And I mean, like Tyler likes to say we sold vaporware for like a
50:12
year, but we convinced people to start giving us money and
50:15
eventually we were able to afford a building.
50:18
And now we're just growing, expanding me, like you said, we
50:22
have events all the time. We tried to be open source and
50:27
as transparent as possible. We're member run, member
50:32
elected, but you know, it's just a lot of fun.
50:36
Like it's, it's changed my life to have this community and
50:40
exposure to people like this in in Denver.
50:43
Like I knew there were bitcoiners, but a lot have come
50:45
out of the woodwork excited that we have a community space to
50:49
hang out at. That's, that's the coolest
50:52
thing, Nico, sorry, if I could just pick it up here is we
50:56
didn't, we didn't have like a company to, to help us with
50:59
this, nor did any one of us individually have the resources
51:02
to go out and buy a building and do this.
51:04
And so it literally was there were consistently 30 to 50
51:08
people at bit devs. We had a meeting in the August
51:12
of 2023 timeline about, OK, how do we turn this into a building?
51:16
We ultimately like decided on a governance structure for a
51:20
member run kind of Country Club thing like Sophie said.
51:23
But we had no building. So that's why Dylan said it was
51:25
vaporware and and we essentially tricked up to 50 people to pay
51:29
monthly dues to build a treasury and for Bitcoin companies to
51:33
help donate to that treasury just so we could build up, you
51:36
know, a little bit of a little bit of sats until we had enough
51:39
to approach a landlord and say, hey, we can rent this venue.
51:42
And come October 1st of 2024, we pulled that off.
51:45
We had 50 founding members. These are folks who donated to
51:48
that treasury before we had anything to offer.
51:50
We were doing camping trips, we were doing hikes, we were going
51:52
to baseball games and going to beers and dinners and getting to
51:55
know each other's family and friends.
51:56
It was awesome. But now we have that location
51:59
where we congregate around. We do all that stuff.
52:01
We had yoga on Sunday and then we have really in the weeds
52:04
technical deep dives of bit devs and then we've got novice stuff.
52:07
So it's it's just awesome to have this place that you can
52:09
call home, where you can do so many different things.
52:12
That's so cool. Yeah.
52:15
No, I love the yoga. I mean, I, I'm practicing Yogi
52:17
myself and I love the whole being able to incorporate the
52:23
Bitcoin culture in real life because so much of it exists
52:27
only online that when you actually connect with people in
52:31
real life, it just takes it such a step further and you make you
52:36
know what, what you talk about online like real and you have
52:39
those real life connections, just different.
52:42
Yeah, so if people want to sign up, like if people want to find
52:45
out more about the space in Denver, where should they go?
52:50
What's the website? So Denver dot space is our
52:54
website and there's a tab for membership on there and you can
52:57
apply through there. The board votes in your
53:00
membership after review and then then you're a member once you
53:04
start paying dues. That's awesome.
53:06
And what does that give you? What does that give you access
53:08
to? So we have two tiers right now
53:11
with the third coming soon to be announced.
53:16
But so the first tier is our social membership and that just
53:19
gives you access to all of our events, swag, this kind of
53:23
ticketed events, various online resources.
53:28
And then we have the Co working tier, which gives you, oh, you
53:31
also get the Co working passes with the social, the Co working
53:34
tier, you get full 24/7 access. Drop them whenever you want and
53:40
then we are working on private offices and such with the
53:43
additional benefits. Very cool.
53:46
And then you guys, I'm assuming you guys are going to start
53:50
announcing events and spaces, is that correct?
53:53
Yeah, so we we do a bunch of events we just had under.
53:59
The event tab Nico and then just click on the public event
54:02
calendar from the drop down. Yeah, we had a heat punk summit
54:05
couple weeks ago, immediately followed by East Denver, which
54:10
is unfortunately there's a bunch of meth heads here in Denver.
54:15
But you know, we we hosted Bitcoin only events and like
54:18
Sophie, like what you were saying was funny.
54:20
I saw some interactions of guys who had only talked to each
54:23
other online and they're not using their names in person.
54:27
And so they're discussing some issues like, oh, I just talked
54:29
to this guy on Twitter about this.
54:31
And then they pull up the thread and they're like, that's me,
54:33
like. So, and, and it's also so
54:35
important, like Bitcoin isn't an easy thing to get into.
54:39
And lots of times like when you're looking at resources
54:43
online or you're talking to people online, it's not really
54:46
like the best way to learn something.
54:49
So just the fact that you're in a space where you can talk to
54:52
other people and actually like say, hey, like I'm having a hard
54:56
time with self custody. Like do you think that you could
54:59
like teach me a thing or two? Or like, why am I, you know, how
55:02
do I troubleshoot this here or there?
55:04
It's so cool to be able to like actually connect with someone on
55:07
that level and ask for help versus like always, just like
55:11
going to the blue screen. And it's been helpful for
55:16
accelerating adoption with new individuals and companies as
55:19
well. So this is like an initiative
55:20
some of our members started just because they, they got together
55:24
and planned this out is they've literally been going to all the
55:26
restaurants in the neighborhood and giving personal envelopes
55:29
with invitations to come over on a set date and time.
55:31
And we onboard those businesses to accept Bitcoin.
55:34
We teach them about Bitcoin. They can drop in anytime they
55:37
have questions. And so that is really only
55:39
possible when you have something to point to.
55:41
It's it's so much harder to say, hey, listen to these 10
55:44
podcasts, read these ten books, and then let's set up a call.
55:47
Has anyone has anyone started dating yet from because I know
55:51
that's something that a lot of bitcoiners are also interested
55:54
in is just like meeting people that might be their forever
55:57
partner and are also interested in Bitcoin.
56:00
Potentially, Potentially I. Don't know how much I should say
56:03
but. Potentially, yeah, we do have
56:05
some lady members. We got Ladies Night with a good
56:07
10 to 20 gals that come. That's that's important.
56:10
That's very important. Definitely like we need to get
56:13
more women to join these spaces so that the men come.
56:16
That that's impressive 1010 gals wow that's that's a are they
56:21
real that. Up to DJ Valerie below.
56:23
She she hosts that with my fiance Rachel.
56:26
And you know, she's very tapped into the women in Bitcoin ego,
56:30
which is awesome to have. Yeah, but we do have it.
56:33
It is actually just astounding that Denver has so many
56:36
Bitcoiners. You know, we have 81 members, we
56:39
have 210 slots. So we are still looking for
56:41
members. Some are supporting from afar,
56:42
but I'd say that what Dylan, maybe a good 70% are local.
56:47
Absolutely, yeah. So it's exciting to see.
56:50
Man, that's that's incredibly awesome, dude.
56:52
You guys, you guys. Have a a cannabis sommelier or
56:59
some, some type of event since it's legal.
57:01
Yeah, since it's legal over there.
57:03
I mean, you can, you can make it interesting.
57:05
Make it. Fun a dispensary offer to make
57:09
us a space strain of. That's super cool.
57:13
That's super cool. That's awesome.
57:14
That's awesome. Well, gentlemen, thank you so
57:16
much for joining us on the show today, guys.
57:19
Go to Denver dot space. I'm going to pull up the URL on
57:22
the screen right now. Go to Denver dot space and you
57:25
can find out more about Denver's own Bitcoin citadel.
57:30
You can become a member. Go check them out today, and I
57:34
do want to thank the these two gentlemen from from the space
57:40
Tyler and Dylan for joining us on simply Bitcoin Live Today
57:44
anyways, guys, if you guys enjoyed today's show appreciate
57:47
if you'd smash the like button consider subscribing if you feel
57:50
like we provided you value. Forgive us for the technical
57:52
difficulties are literally a streaming software rugged us
57:56
right before we were about to go on air, but luckily we were
57:59
still able to go live on rumble and X and again the YouTube
58:03
video will be out later today anyways guys love you all we'll
58:07
see you tomorrow for brand new episode of simply Bitcoin live.
58:11
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