Latest / Foul Territory / Saves are getting devalued + Justin Turner’s wife Kourtney joins

Transcript

Saves are getting devalued + Justin Turner’s wife Kourtney joins · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Corney. Turner is the host of the Holding Court podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Court with a Kay joins us now. She is a podcaster,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: She is a mother, She is uh wears a lot
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: of hats, one of which is the wife of longtime
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Major League baseball player Justin Turner.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Court.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Always a pleasure to see you, and it's not like
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: you have anything going on. When we were texting yesterday,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: you were talking about being in the middle of a move,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: two dogs, a toddler, and a rental home going through renovations.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: What's that been like for you?
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: I know we've been now in four different places in
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: eleven days. So it's all for the love of the game,
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: right We just have to make it through, and it'll
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: all be worth it.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Loving the game.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: Loving the game and being tortured by the game are
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: two different things, Courtney, You should know that more than anybody.
• 0:52
  Speaker 5: Right right now.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Justin should be very grateful he has a supportive spouse
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: going through all this.
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: But yeah, so.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that Justin is now playing in Tijuana
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: for the Toros there in Mexico. How did that come about, Court,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Because Justin obviously has had such a tremendous Major League
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: baseball career. I had the pleasure of starting to get
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: to cover him and you guys in twenty fourteen, and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: he's gone on to have a hell of a career.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: He didn't have to continue to play, but obviously this
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: is something very important to him. How did this decision
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: come up of him wanting to extend it in a
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: completely different league, in a completely different country.
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's definitely different, for sure.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: I think the focus this off season he wanted to
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: keep playing, and I think it was just about getting
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: an opportunity to play somewhere, and we didn't really know
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: where that would be or what that would look like.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: And then as spring training was winding down and the
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: MLB season was starting, he realized, Okay, I'm probably going
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: to have to start looking elsewhere for opportunities. And I
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: was fully on board, and you know, talking about Japan
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: or Korea or playing in Mexico, whatever it was going
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: to look like. I was all for it because I
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: think after last season he thought he still had something
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: left in the tank and he wasn't done, it was unfinished.
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: So I was all on board and seeing where it
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: would take us.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: So it's been definitely a transition, but it's been incredible
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: I've We've had a lot of warm welcomes with teams,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: but I don't think we've ever had a bigger red
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: carpet rolled out for him as we've had in Tijuana
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: All Right, Corney, you got to keep it one hundred
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: because I think my wife is going to watch this.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: Plenty of wives are going to watch this. When he
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: told you Tijuana is where I'm going to go play,
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: were you like, I'm really busy in April. We're gonna
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: make it down there? Like but if he had said, Hey,
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: we're gonna we're I'm gonna go to San Diego, you
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: have been like, I love San Diego in April for
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: a wife. Is there a home place where you're like,
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: you know what, We're totally fine, I'll visit you in
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: Chicago Or is it one I'm going wherever you're going.
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: Maybe I'm just built different.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I know how much he loves this game, and if
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: this was his opportunity this season, then I was all in.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: And he left a few days before me, and then
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: I packed everything up and got us down here and
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: we were there for his debut, and I honestly wouldn't
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: have it any other way.
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: There's difficult stuff, but I.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Know he's happiest on the baseball field, and so wherever
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: and whatever that was going to look like this season,
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: I was all in. So I know a lot of
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: other wives would have probably said, I'll see you when
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: I see you. And there's some wives on this team
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: that you know aren't making that move and coming down here.
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: But I don't know. I just part of me thrives
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: in the chaos. I love it. I love you know.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I think I'm the most productive when things are, you know,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: up in the air and a little crazy.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: But I'm I just know that he wants to be here,
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: so that's important to me. If it's important to him.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: What does that look like you said, pack everything up?
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: What does that look like for you guys at this
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: stage of your life, pack it up and move down there?
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: And also from a player's standpoint, how much do you
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: think you being there supporting him helps him play better.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I always say that, you know, if we handle everything
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: at home, then the guys can just worry about everything
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: at the field, And I try to, you know, even
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: with the renovations going on in the rental that we're
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: in right now, I'm trying to not you know, you
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: don't want to text him all day long and say,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is happening, This is happening, this
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: is happening. He has enough going on there, So just
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: trying to handle as much as I can at home
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: and make sure that he's good to go for the game.
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: That's kind of my role right.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Now, Courtney.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: Is there a time where you where it'll come to
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: You might say, I mean, he's forty one years, always
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: playing in Tijuana. Hey, it's time to stop. Because I
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: know when my wife and I was at the end
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: of my career, she said, I'll never tell you to
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: stop playing because if you don't feel it, then you'll
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: resent me forever.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: So is there ever a point where you're going to say, man,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just tired of this.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: No. I think he'll make that decision. And I also
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: think even when his playing days are over, he's going
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: to find his way into a dugout or somewhere near
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: the field. So I don't think we'll ever be away
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: from it. It'll just look a little different. But yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: that's really not my decision to make. And I think
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: he still feels like he brings value and he can contribute,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: and he actually for not having a spring training and
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: I think maybe Opening Night was the first live ABE
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: he's had since October. It's actually doing pretty well, so
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I think he still got it too. So we're just
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: enjoying the ride and making memories, especially now having our
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: son with us and seeing how much he loves being
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: around it. It's just takes it to another level. So
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: I think that makes it worth it too, Like seeing
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: him enjoy it. I think if it was difficult in
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: that sense and you know, having to drag him to
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: games and all that, but so far he's adjusting really
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: well and we're enjoying it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Nothing makes me more irritated than when and we just identify, Oh,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: she's the wife of Justin Turner, she's the wife of
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: now Aaron Judge or whatever it is. You're so much
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: more than just Justin Turner's wife, not that that's not
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: an important role obviously as a mother now of Bo
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: and Justin's wife. But you have your own podcast. You're
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of your own thing, and you have
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: been way before you met Justin. So tell me more
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: about the podcast in terms of how that got started,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: why you wanted to do that, and maybe you know
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: some of your favorite guests and somebody perhaps you'd hope
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: to get on.
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that started through COVID.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: This season shut down, and Justin actually got me all
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: the equipment for Valentine's Day that year, in lieu of
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: flowers and chocolates and all that.
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: He got me a podcast set up.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: I was kind of, you know, kicking the can and
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: delaying it and not really starting it. And this season
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: shut down, and one night I came downstairs in our
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: condo in Arizona and he said, you want to have
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a podcast, let's go, and we set it up and
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: hit record and didn't really know.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: What it was going to be about.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: I just knew that I wanted to have a podcast.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: And I think what's fun about it is I've been
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: able to have different baseball wives on there and kind
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: of just shine a different light on them. Like you said,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: obviously what's under me right now, it's his wife of
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Justin Turner, and that's kind of what happens with baseball
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: wives too. But it's fun to share their side of it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: They do have their own things going on, you know.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: I just had Sarah Garver on, she's a veterinarian. I
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: had Kara bieber On, and she's an entrepreneur. She just
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: started her own company. So I think, for one, showing
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: what they have going on, but then I also think
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: it adds a good layer for fans to just see
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: these guys as humans, and I think no one can
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: offer a better perspective of a player than their spouse
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: and kind of shining light on them and their day
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: to day and just making people I guess reminded that
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, they're humans, They're not
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: just players and robots and all that.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: So it's been fun.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: It's been six years now, and I'm still surprised when
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: people say yes and they want to come on, because
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I think someone asking people to come on a podcast
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: is like asking for a ride to the airport, and
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: you know, you feel a little guilt you're putting people
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: on there.
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: But yeah, it's been fun for sure.
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: All Right, Well, who do you admire as far as
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: a wife that you haven't talked to from afar? Like,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: because like, who's who's the show hey of wives? Right now,
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying show Hay's wife. I'm saying all players
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: look at show Hey, and they're like, holy crap, this
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: dude's amazing, like he's he hits, he pitches. Who is
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: the wife that is the show Hay of the wives?
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: Well, wouldn't it be Showy's wife? No, I don't know.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if she's that. I
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: don't know what you what you girls think of?
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's wild the I don't know if
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: it's like the Taylor Swift effect.
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: Or what it is.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: But there's definitely like an increased interest in in wives
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: of professional athletes and Kylie Kelcey and all of that.
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: But I don't know.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I try to ask everyone I want to have Mookie's
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: wife on. I think she is incredible. She's doing a
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: lot on her own. Like you said too, I think
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: she would be fun.
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: I kind of just get a little courage sometimes at
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: night and just text everyone and say, hey, you know,
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: I don't want to bother you, and it can be
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: as long as you want it to be. I can
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: you know, you can have final say on anything. I
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: can give you the outline before and try to make
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: it as easy as possible. But like I said, I'm
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: always surprised when when people say yes and they want
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: to come.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: On see Carrera nine point fifty one in our chat
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: had to comment about you guys, and I wanted to
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: bring this up too, because it says the Turner's Foundation
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: is awesome and has really set the standard for Dodgers
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: players outreach into the community. Shout out to the Turner family.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: And I do think that that's a huge piece of
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: this because even after Justin left LA in terms of
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: playing for the Dodgers, you guys were still very active
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in JT's Foundation and in LA specifically.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Why.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I know that obviously he's from there, you're from Indiana,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: he's from southern California, But why is that so important
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: for you guys to continue to have that outreach, you know,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: in the in the Dream Center there and with veterans
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: in particular, and everything that you guys do in the
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: community there.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we always said we didn't want to do anything
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: that was just a one off, you know. When we
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: decided to partner with the Children's Hospital LA and the
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Dream Center and Operation Men through UCLA and those different organizations,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: we wanted to plant roots and we wanted to be
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: invested in the community and not just you know, write
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: a check and say okay, here, I hope this helps
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: and not stay invested, because I feel like oftentimes that
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: does happen, where you know, some things become just a
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: quick donation and a photo op and then you're done.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: So I think it was important to us and then
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: especially you know, justin winning the Roberto Clemente Award, like
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: with that comes such a responsibility, I think, And you
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: know a lot of people might have said, Okay, you
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: know you you receive this great honor for your philanthropy,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: all right, like you can you know you've been recognized.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: But now I think that just made us want to
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: hit the ground running more. And you know, we've been
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: invested in LA for a long time and it's it's
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: obviously where Justin's from and a huge part of his career,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: but we also continue to do things in other cities
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: as well and try to leave our mark there too.
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: What is harder going to a new team as the
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: new wife or trying to make a girlfriend who just
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: started dating one of your husband's teammates feel welcome on
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: to a team.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: I feel like probably the second one. It's it's hard.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: I always say it's like changing high schools, right, It's
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: going to a new team, especially later in Justin's career,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: it felt like, you know, I was like, hey, kids,
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: what's you know, what's.
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: Going around here?
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: But you know, you try to make everyone full welcome
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: and that was the hard part of the transition and
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: going in new teams. You know, I felt like I
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: was this betteran wife in LA and then I go
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: to a new team and you kind of have to
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: figure out that dynamic and you know who's kind of
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: you know, in charge I guess, or who's the leader
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: of the wives there. But yeah, I definitely think it's
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: important to make the girls feel welcome too, for.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Sure, Courtney, do you think Justin will manage one day?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Is that something that he has set his eyes set on,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: because I you know, when any dugout that he's been in,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: or any clubhouse that he's been in, I know, with
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the exception of a couple of teams or aren't captains,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: but Justin was, and Dave Roberts said that he was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the glue to that team and he's been that in
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: other organizations. Do you see him managing.
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: I do, I really do.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: I think it will be more nerve wracking than his
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: playing days for me though, because I think I think
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: it's a tough job because if things are going good,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: not everyone looks to the manager, But then if there's
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: a decision that doesn't pan out, I think it falls
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: back on the manager. So I'll have to stay off
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Twitter and all the comments for that one. But I
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: think so, I really do. I think he has such
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: a good understanding of the game. I think he has
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: good feel I think he does a.
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: Really good job.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I'm always in awe when he goes to these new
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: teams and then I see him in the dugout, you know,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: the first of the second game of the season, and
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: he's already meshing so well, and he just has that
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: ability to reach I think every single guy there, and
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I think that's what makes him so special. So yeah,
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: I one thousand percent see him managing one day.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: Justin's gone through so many different transactions in his career.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: What's the one that hurt the most for you? The
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: one that you were like, that's tough, like that one?
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: That one is? That one gets me every time I
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: think about it. But also in the moment, it was
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: really tough.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I think leaving LA for sure was a shock and
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: definitely unexpected for us. But I think Once you get
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: that first one out of the way, it definitely becomes
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: a little easier and you're reminded it's a business, and
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a lot of changes. I think another
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: one for me he was leaving Boston and not going
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: back to Boston because I think that was such a
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: special season for him, you know, to have that big
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: of a career change, and then I think he had
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: like statistically his best season and we just had a
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: lot of fun there and I feel like it was
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: such a good fit for him. And then to not
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: go back there, that one got me so left my
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: part of my heart in Boston for sure.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I'll be thankful you're not in Boston right now. Court
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: has her podcast. Check it out, guys, don't forget you
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: can check her out on court with Holding Court on YouTube,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast, checker out there. We appreciate
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: you as always. Best of luck to JT. Give Bo
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: a hug from us, and thank you Courtney, thanks for
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: the time. Good to see you as always.
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: Thank you, good to see you. Let's have a.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Conversation about the importance of the save statistic as the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Bullpens keep evolving and there's more guys, at the back
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: end of a bullpen that can throw that ninth inning,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: those coveted and most difficult three outs. Do you think
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the stat, the safe stat eka will start with you
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: is devalued at this point because there's no longer for
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: every team a bona fide closer, no longer one guy
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: that gets that call.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Uh uh.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: I think some of the teams have it. I mean
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: we look what the Dodgers did. They went out and
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: got Edwin Diz Why because Tanner Scott, the guy they
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: had gotten before, wasn't closing games down for him. Dave
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Roberts had to do his magic last year bringing in
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: starters to throw in the bullpen. Is the actual save
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: stat devalued? Yes, That's what the Rays have wanted to
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: do forever. That's what any team that wants to keep
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: a value for a player that's reaching arbitration, they want
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: to keep it down. Look at the small market teams
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: that lop guys up that are getting saves. You know
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: what you want to become? Our close will lock you
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: up for your assumed value, because the game has a
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: set value for what a save is. I know guys
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: that have gone too, that have gone to arbitration and
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: have been told, well, you don't have as many saves
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: as that person did, but I had three. I had
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: twice as many strikeouts. So yes, it's being devalued, but
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: it's being devalued on purpose. And I truly believe in
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: the fact that what teams say, yes, three outs are
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: three outs, and sometimes it's more important to have your
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: better pitcher throw in the eighth inning because that's the
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: better spot in the lineup. But I also know the
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: human side of the ninth inning, and we've had numerous
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: closers on here that the ninth inning is different, and
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: I know, as a hitter, I'm facing a pitcher completely different,
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: completely different type of situation, different mindset. They're going to
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: approach me differently as a hitter in the ninth inning.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: It's just it's how it has been, it's how it
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: will always be, because the game is played by humans
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: and not by robots.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: AJA. In two thousand and eight, Francisco Rodriguez had sixty
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: two saves that set a high water mark at that point.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I mean that long gone are the days right that
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: we're ever going to see anything like that. I mean
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: even I mean, what's a high amount of saves now
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: because there's so many guys that are just a part
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: of a revolving door at the back end.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Disagree, disagree. Not a good team. I think we'll get there.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Not on good teams.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: If the Dodgers had Edwin Diaz, he'd have a bunch
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: of saves. Mason Miller's racking up saves, but Mason Miller's
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: racking up saves. The thing is, you have to be
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: on a good team, and you have to have an
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: organization that understands that.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I don't care what the numbers say.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: Analytically, you have to have roles in your bullpen, and
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: the good teams have that guy in the ninth inning
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: that will lock down the ninth inning, and then you
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: can figure out the eighth to seventh and at the
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: sixth if you have to right. And that's when guys
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: go down there, excuse me, and they know Mario and
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: Rivera has the ninth, Jeff Nelson has the eighth, Mike
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: Stanton has the seven. Blah blah blah, whoever you want
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: to throw out there, if it makes teams better when
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: they know they have that hammer in the ninth inning,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: ask any manager, asked Terry Francona asked Steven Vode, who
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: has you know, had class and now he has Kate
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Smith in the back end right, ask these these managers
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: that are super successful. Pat Murphy has McGill at the
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: back end, right, and he before that he had Devin
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: Williams who was lights out. That makes your job so
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: much easier as a manager, because you know, you really
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: only have to cover eight innings. And most of these
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: teams that are really good that have a hammer in
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: the night, they have a pretty good eighth inning guy too,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: and usually a lefty somewhere that could get you through
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: the seven. So those are the teams that are really good,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: and those are the teams. So are they undervaluing it?
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: Of course they are because these front offices, as we've said,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: are don't value human beings and they don't value saves.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: Because also it's a way, as Kraut's kind of said,
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: to keep salaries done. If we don't have a guy
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: that gets sixty saves, we don't have to pay him
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: for sixty saves. Talk to relievers, they'd be like, well,
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: holds are just as valuable as saves. No, I still
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: want a guy that can go out there and get
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: me the three outs of the ninth inning. That is that,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: to me is invaluable. Kenley Jansen, He's been doing it forever, right,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: he can do it. We know this guy can do it.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, Mason Miller, we know he can do it.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Why do you think the Braves went out and got
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Robert Suarez when they already had Iglesias because then they
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: had the eighth and the ninth locked up.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: That's a huge advantage.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: Trust me, as a player, I'd look down there and
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: when we were playing these the two thousand and one Mariners,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: You're like Arthur Rose, Jeff Nelson and Suzaki. Crap, we're
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: playing basically a five inning game, and we better be
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: ahead after five inches because I don't want to see
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: them dudes coming in.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're working your way backwards basically. All right,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you. E k Aj mentioned Kenley Jansen.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I mean he's an active obviously an active closer for
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: the Tigers. There's two other guys in that same bullpen
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that can close games as well. Is that do you
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: consider Kenley a guy for the Hall of Fame if
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: he gets to five hundred saves? Because if this stat
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: is considered to be devalue in today's game. Is ken
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Lee ah Hall of Famer if he makes it to
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: five hundred.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Yes, because of how he compares to the rest of
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: the game and the rest of the closers in history.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: I think Kimberrell was on his way. Obviously, it's kind
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: of been a little bit derailed here recently, but he
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: was on his way. But both of those guys are
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: so rare in the sense that they both came up
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: and were closing almost immediately. I think, you know, part
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: way through the year of their first full year of service,
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: they were closing, and they've been closing ever since. The
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: one thing, too, with a closer is there is a
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: psyche about what happens in the ninth thing. There is
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: a psyche about you give up a game winning home run.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: Just the other day, Kenley Jansen just gave up, gave
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: up the I think it was last night Matt Olsen
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: hit a game winning walk off homer against him. As
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: a closer, you got to come back out the next night,
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: whether it's the next night or the next time you're
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: back out there, and forget about that, use that fuel
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: whatever it is. You have to be willing to go
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: out there. That's why Yankee fans remember roll this Chapman
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: because he gave up big home runs. That's why Astro
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: fans remember Brad Liz because they gave up a big
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: home run. Like those guys are in those spots, and
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: then they continue to stay as closers because they're able
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: to bounce back, and they lose their closing role when
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: they don't bounce back, when they let that psyche get
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: to them. And that's that doesn't happen in any other spot.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: You're always saying, Okay, well, I like this guy against
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: these three hitters, no matter what the situation is. Why
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: because analytically, oh, it's all red. That means he's not
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: gonna do He's they're not gonna do well against him.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: This is the matchup we want or green, whatever the
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: number is in the matchup chart, and it's not the
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: same if you bring let's say you bring Ryan Stanick
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: out to open the game. Ryan Stanick opens the game
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: against the three best hitters in the lineup, he gives
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: up a run. There's very little psyche for Ryan Stanick going,
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: holy cow, I totally.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Blew that game.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: Now you bring in Ryan Stannick to close the game
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: because Ryan Stanick's done both. He's closed and opened, and
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: he's facing those same three hitters and he blows the
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: game by giving up the exact same run way, different psyche,
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: and it takes a different type of person to bounce
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: back and to make that make it not happen again.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: We had a conversation, guys with Jim Boden just moments
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: ago about the value of relievers. Aja, you've talked about
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: it too. I mean there's a shirt a long time
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: ago that said, you know, relievers need love to I mean,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: there's so many guys in the bullpen that are just
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: kind of overlooked. And Ryan Walker, the Giants reliever, had
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a kind of conversation he said, maybe leverage index needs
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: to be more valuable in terms of compensation negotiations. What
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: is your take on that in terms of because you
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: had mentioned too, like a guy might come into the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: game in the eighth just based on where the lineup
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: is that they're going to be facing. I mean, what
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: is your what's your opinion on that? If that matters
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: in terms of a leverage index.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Ninth inning is always the toughest.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: I don't care who I mean, I understand there could
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: be a bigger bats in the eighth inning. I understand that,
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: but that's usually why good teams have an eighth inning
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: guy and a ninth inning guy, right. I know you
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: can't get the saving the ninth without the eighth inning guys.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: But I'm sorry, there's a different there's a different feeling
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: kind of what Kratz said about the ninth inning.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I played with Joe Nathan, I played with
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Bobby Jenks.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I played with some really good you know, Rob n
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: was on a team I was on. He was hurt,
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: but he was around. I mean, there's there are some
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: guys I played with that legitimately. You know, Trevor Rosenthal
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: was another one. Uh, you know these guys. It's a
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: different breed of person for the ninth inning. And that's
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: why people just say, oh, you can throw anyone in
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: the ninth inning. I completely disagree, because you almost have
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: to be I don't want to say a little bit
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: nuts to be the closer, but you gotta be a
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: little bit nuts to be the closer because you have
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: to want all the pressure, and you also have to
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: understand if you do blow it, everyone looks at you like, gosh,
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: that dude just blew the game and be able to
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: get over it for the next day. So I think
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: ninth inning is the most valuable. Listen to the other
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: guys make value, yes, and we've seen reliever salaries go up.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: But for me, if you.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Haven't, most most good teams and I'm gonna take the
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: Dodgers from last year out because they were lucky that
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: they had enough arms to cover it and enough offense
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: to cover it. Most good teams and really good teams
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: have a guy in the ninth inning that is a
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: lockdown guy. And if they don't, when they say closer
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: by committee, that means you don't have anybody that can
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: pitch the ninth in and you're looking for that guy.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: Every team's looking for that guy. The Blue Jays just
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: moved Jeff Hoffman out of it and they moved Varlin
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: into it. Like AJ mentioned a ton of closers that
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: he played with, I play with Jonathan Paplebah. He's a
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: little nuts in the head, like there's a little but
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: there's a method to his men. There's a method to
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: getting up for that ninth inning and knowing in the
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: seventh inning he starts that routine to be able to
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: be ready when they're winning. I played with Waye Davis
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: in one of the greatest seasons I've ever seen a
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: reliever have. He didn't give up an extra base hit
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: until August. He's a little nuts, like he's a little crazy.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Josh Hater.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: I remember he was like, hey, brother, he goes, I
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: walked into regular field, He goes, I just feel like
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: I can throw harder. And I came in the seventh.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: It wasn't quite there, he goes, But man, when I
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: came in in the ninth, man, it was really coming
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: out of my arm. It was coming out of my
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: hand really good. Like those are guys, Those are actual
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: human beings telling you how they feel about the situation
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: in the ninth different than how they felt about the
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: situation in the seventh or eighth inning. And if front
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: offices recognize that, that's the difference in really good teams
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: and teams that are.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, we're hanging around.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: We almost tried fifty four percent.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Because you guys both said the same thing that I
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about in terms of personality of closers,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: because I kind of like enclosers, and also catchers and
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: goalies all you guys all have to be a little
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: bit off, all of you. Let me ask you, though,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Aj the personality of a closer, I mean you guys. Well,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Kratz had mentioned papal Bond, who I adore. I think
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: he's a trip. You never know what's going to come
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: out of his mouth. But do closers tend to have
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the same type of personality?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Uh no all the time.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: I mean, Joe Nathan was not like the other guys
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: that I that I played with, Eddie Guardado did, was
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: not like Bobby Jenks, and was not like some of
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: the other guys you've seen.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: So so everyone is different.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: I mean it just but at the end of the day,
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: they all have this mentality of I can get the
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: three outs in the night no matter what my stuff is,
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: and if I don't get it today, I'll get it tomorrow.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: That's it almost almost like a I would say, like
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: an intelligent dumb guy. Where they have because because everybody
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: looks at Pap and I'm gonna use them as an example, everybody.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Looks at me.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: All he did was just rare back and throw the ball.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: We had plenty of conversations about him needing to be
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: able to throw the four quadrants of the zone and
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: how and how that helps him to be able to
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: attack different kinds of hitters in big situations. But like
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Aja said, you give it up when you give it
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: when you give it up, you gotta be able to
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: have You got to be that dumb guy and be like,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: I kind of forgot that I gave it up yesterday.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Why because you have so much supreme confidence in who
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: you are as a pitcher that you're going to get
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: it today.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Be a goldfish, like Ted Lasso says, right, you got
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to be a goldfish. You just they don't have a memory.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Just wash it off.