Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:40
  Welcome back to our Hamster with a Blunt Penknife the Doctor Who
• 0:43
  Commentary Podcast. I am having a glorious evening
• 0:48
  today with my new friend, Mr. Dan Pin.
• 0:51
  Hello Dan. How are you doing?
• 0:53
  I'm loving it. I'm really good.
• 0:57
  We're talking Sylvester McCoy, baby.
• 0:59
  Oh yeah, So we're are now two episodes into Paradise Tower.
• 1:04
  So obviously I'm going to ask you this is a true test as to
• 1:07
  whether you do listen to hamster or blump in knife or not.
• 1:10
  If you could please summarise the entire plot to date.
• 1:13
  Off you go. So.
• 1:16
  The Doctor and Mao were planning a trip for well because Mao was
• 1:22
  very keen to go swimming, so, so there's this.
• 1:25
  The whole reason they're there is to go to this swimming pool
• 1:29
  that is at the top of this tower block.
• 1:31
  When they get there it's looking rather shabby and and run down.
• 1:37
  We find that there are rival girl gangs running wild
• 1:41
  throughout the throughout the towers but people are
• 1:47
  disappearing and the rumour is that it's the clean the bots are
• 1:52
  bumping people off. As we explore further we we're
• 1:57
  introduced to the Caretakers that are run by a rather
• 2:03
  jobsworth chief caretaker and they they live by a rulebook and
• 2:10
  some of them die by it as well. Later on the the Doctor you know
• 2:17
  is captured by them he then escapes from them he he he's
• 2:20
  then captured again by the Kangs and and he's builds up a
• 2:23
  friendship with those guys. Then because the Doctor and Mel
• 2:29
  have been separated, Mel is then she comes into contact with a
• 2:35
  couple of residents or Rezis who very who seem very sweet and
• 2:40
  innocent and very nice like just like you know you your dear old
• 2:45
  grandma kind of you know that lives down the road.
• 2:48
  Then then she's rather violently introduced to to Pex who bursts
• 2:55
  through their door and Mel continues on her quest to find
• 3:01
  the the pool in the at the top with Pex tagging along.
• 3:08
  Later on she finds out that Pex is is a is basically a a bit of
• 3:16
  a coward and he had run away from a war that most of the
• 3:20
  Paradise Towers residents were sent to other than those that
• 3:23
  were too old or too young. And then she finds herself in
• 3:29
  the in the home of the Rezis again.
• 3:32
  But this time, as we found out with that cliffhanger, they have
• 3:36
  got interior motives than just feeding her up with tea and
• 3:39
  cookies. And that is basically they want
• 3:42
  her for lunch. That sounds like an amazing
• 3:46
  Doctor Who story. I mean, it's crazy as fucking
• 3:51
  it. Oh man, yeah, on paper that
• 3:55
  sounds again. It sounds bad.
• 3:57
  I don't. Think it sounds bad at all?
• 4:00
  I just think it sounds quirky, eccentric, shall we say.
• 4:06
  I I mean that's The thing is it, it's one of those stories that
• 4:09
  is is quite unique isn't it? You know, you know even when you
• 4:15
  put it into context with things that we've seen in new who you
• 4:18
  know that Russell and Moffett and Chibbers have done it.
• 4:21
  It still stands out as being sort of in in a category of one
• 4:25
  really doesn't it? It's there's not much that's
• 4:28
  like it. What baffles me is yeah, how the
• 4:31
  two things the the society like this all in one contained
• 4:38
  setting has never really been done before.
• 4:41
  And the the building that tries to kill you, which just seems so
• 4:46
  custom made for Doctor Who because it's kind of cheap, you
• 4:50
  know, that's never been done before either.
• 4:52
  So they're sort of ticking two boxes as they go.
• 4:57
  And and it begs the question and I think this is we've kind of
• 5:01
  alluded to this that there's there's there's many a problem
• 5:06
  with some of the the plot and and it gives you like well that
• 5:10
  doesn't make sense. It's like so they're in this
• 5:13
  tower block. Does that mean there are other
• 5:16
  tower blocks as well on this planet?
• 5:19
  Because? We open with a shot of several
• 5:21
  tower blocks, don't we? I don't know.
• 5:23
  Obviously the problem with this one is that in the basement
• 5:26
  there's something unpleasant. I don't spoilers.
• 5:28
  I don't want to. I don't want to ruin that for
• 5:30
  for anything. Explain why they can't just go
• 5:32
  out through the front doors. Exactly.
• 5:35
  Look, you know, it's almost. Never covered, do we?
• 5:37
  They're locked in this tower block, you know, never to feel
• 5:41
  fresh air on their on their face.
• 5:43
  Maybe, maybe there should be a a line, you know, a terroristic
• 5:46
  line again of like, I don't know, the atmosphere outside the
• 5:49
  towers is poisonous because our bomb was dropped during the war
• 5:52
  or something like that, you know?
• 5:55
  Yeah, like, like like the leisure hive.
• 5:56
  You know, going outside, it's not good for you.
• 6:02
  But you know, I think this is one of those times where the
• 6:07
  society has presented the characters within, and the
• 6:11
  situations are so fun to watch. I don't mind that there are
• 6:18
  logical inconsistencies and things that they haven't quite
• 6:23
  tied up. No, I mean it's it's the nature
• 6:29
  of Doctor Who, isn't it? I, I, I there are very few
• 6:33
  stories where there aren't plot holes in it that you could drive
• 6:37
  a a bus through. You know if you pick it apart,
• 6:40
  you can find them. If anyone could find the story
• 6:43
  out there, let down. And I know in the tweets when
• 6:45
  this goes out. All right, I don't think there
• 6:48
  is one. I stand to be corrected on that
• 6:50
  because because it may well exist.
• 6:52
  But someone. 'S going to throw Curse of
• 6:54
  Fenrik hours, but trust me, I've got a list of plots for that
• 6:57
  one, OK? OK, I'll let you, I'll let you
• 7:00
  defend that. Yeah, so, so, but.
• 7:05
  But that's that's the thing, isn't it?
• 7:08
  You know when the story that you presented with is so enjoyable
• 7:15
  from from the other aspects you you can look beyond that and and
• 7:19
  I think I think it's Doctor Who fans we're very good at doing
• 7:22
  that. You know because you you could
• 7:24
  find you know those ones that are held up as classics you know
• 7:27
  Genesis and Daleks, Caves of Andrazzani.
• 7:29
  You know these ones that you know we're we're we're we're
• 7:32
  kind of these are these are the pinnacles of of of classic
• 7:36
  Doctor Who. You can find them in there if
• 7:38
  you if you look you know. Just got bloody great clams in
• 7:41
  it. I mean, what was Davros trying
• 7:43
  to do the the biggest clam chowder you've ever seen?
• 7:46
  Don't know. And then, you know, in the magma
• 7:50
  beast in the I mean, bloody hell, that's dreadful, isn't it?
• 7:54
  You know he keeps it in the dark, in the mist for a reason
• 7:57
  as. Much as he can.
• 7:58
  But I think as well, it's always worth remembering that Doctor
• 8:01
  Who was supposed to be seen an episode at a time once a week,
• 8:04
  25 minutes, once a week. That's not a lot of time, and I
• 8:08
  don't think a lot of people sort of looked at stories as a whole.
• 8:12
  You couldn't because you were watching it over a month.
• 8:14
  Yeah, yeah. And also back in the day it was,
• 8:19
  it was a one shot you, you saw it, you saw it once and that was
• 8:22
  it. You know until the invent of of
• 8:25
  video well. We're kind of in the video age,
• 8:27
  I think, at this point, aren't we in 87?
• 8:30
  Yeah, I I mean, I know my family.
• 8:32
  We didn't. We didn't get one until the 90s.
• 8:34
  I think we we had one late 80s Scotch tapes were our type of
• 8:39
  choice and if you'd had a long play tape you could get free
• 8:43
  four part Doctor Who stories on it.
• 8:45
  Oh really? So old Dan, honestly.
• 8:48
  No, because I remember our first one was a top loader the the,
• 8:51
  the bit that you. Because normally they are the
• 8:54
  best. It just, it just like came out
• 8:56
  at the top of it. Yeah, so.
• 9:04
  But I didn't because because I think like when when we had that
• 9:06
  I was, I was because it was weird.
• 9:10
  We didn't have a video for ages but Mum and Dad were we we.
• 9:15
  I remember having Sky TV, so I had the UK go repeats and it
• 9:21
  must have been about 1415 when I had that so, so, so that you
• 9:25
  know that was that was my way of kind of plugging a lot of those
• 9:28
  gaps because because for all of us it felt quite a slow process
• 9:33
  wasn't it for the VHSS to to all be.
• 9:36
  It felt like it took forever, but then when it was all over, I
• 9:39
  was like, Oh no. Yeah, what?
• 9:41
  Were you saying then, then without going off to the other
• 9:43
  town, can you please bring me back some long play tapes How
• 9:50
  things have changed but. I I, I look back rather fondly
• 9:54
  on those Sunday mornings on UK guide you had.
• 9:59
  What is it? Survivors.
• 10:01
  Blake, 7. And then you had a Doctor Who
• 10:03
  story. At the end it was, oh, it was 8.
• 10:06
  I mean, I've told this story a million times, so I won't labour
• 10:09
  the point, but I'd go out to revenge in Brighton of a
• 10:12
  Saturday night, I have an incredible lay.
• 10:15
  Come home, I would wake up in some basement flat in Brighton.
• 10:19
  I didn't know where I was. Sort of go out into the light,
• 10:22
  find a coffee and a croissant, get the first train home, stick
• 10:26
  on UK gold. And there we were.
• 10:28
  Invasion of the dinosaurs are something fabulous like that,
• 10:30
  you know? Oh, what a life in.
• 10:33
  The midnight I, I I can, yeah. As as the 90s went on, I can
• 10:38
  remember watching many of those mornings very, very hungover on
• 10:42
  a Sunday. Sometimes that helped, you know?
• 10:46
  Other times, like the Sea Devils, I was like, I can't
• 10:49
  stand that noise in my mind. Yeah.
• 10:52
  Oh man, yeah. Actually, maybe even paralyzed
• 10:54
  towers would be a bit much for that funky music.
• 10:58
  Oh, it's worth talking about Kev McCulloch.
• 11:00
  Well, I'll tell you what. Should we go into three?
• 11:02
  Yeah, let's do it. Because there's still a ton.
• 11:04
  So we haven't even spoken about the director yet.
• 11:07
  Well, can't see. OK.
• 11:08
  I'll do that 321 go. What do you think about Nicholas
• 11:16
  Mallet then? Well, I like all of the stories
• 11:22
  that he directed. So you like mysterious planet?
• 11:25
  Yeah, I I was having this conversation with Luke at the
• 11:30
  Because and Dave Rennie. Yeah, because Luke hates
• 11:36
  Mysterious Planet, he says. It's just boring.
• 11:39
  Whereas for me, it's my favorite Colin Baker story.
• 11:44
  Yeah, I, I, I, I just just love. I just love so much about it,
• 11:48
  you know? An unusual but wonderful
• 11:52
  opinion. Go on.
• 11:53
  Yeah, I think part of it is nostalgia because like I was
• 11:56
  telling the lads, both me and Dave were reminiscing about that
• 12:01
  lovely TARDIS tin with trial of a Time Lord in it.
• 12:05
  That came out 93 and I I remember that Christmas
• 12:16
  whatever, for whatever reason my mum said I could have one
• 12:19
  present. I I mean, which is daft because
• 12:21
  I was, I was like 1415 so you think I could contain myself for
• 12:26
  one more day. But she goes, you can have one
• 12:29
  present Christmas Eve, so. I go and you took the creme de
• 12:34
  la creme. Did you?
• 12:35
  Yeah, I I do that Tardis Tim. And yeah, I remember watching
• 12:39
  the first time I watched Mysterious Planet was was.
• 12:42
  Christmas Eve. Oh my gosh, it's great when you
• 12:46
  can pin it to a day. Yeah, yeah and and I just loved
• 12:50
  it. I I, you know I I hadn't got at
• 12:52
  that point. I think we only had had we'd had
• 12:57
  Twin Dilemma and Vengeance on Varos.
• 13:00
  I think those were the only Colin Baker releases on VHS at
• 13:04
  that point, I believe. And I didn't have Twin Dilemma
• 13:09
  because it was a wasn't it a Woolworths exclusive or
• 13:11
  something. I was.
• 13:12
  Right. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:13
  Yeah. I couldn't.
• 13:14
  I couldn't. I didn't get that one.
• 13:17
  So but I was like wow, this is amazing, This and and I I love a
• 13:22
  visual and that. I know people don't like his
• 13:26
  costume, but don't Colin and Nicola look great walking
• 13:31
  through that forest at the beginning?
• 13:33
  It's all the mist. All been home as well.
• 13:36
  And this this this little BLOB of colour that just just coming
• 13:41
  towards us and it it gradually comes in and it's Colin and and
• 13:45
  and Nicola yeah and and glitz and Dibber.
• 13:48
  What a great the the I. Don't get me started that.
• 13:52
  Yeah, for me they are. They're they're one of Robert
• 13:58
  Holmes's best double wax, I feel.
• 14:00
  But I know a lot of people wouldn't agree with that because
• 14:03
  it's. Isn't he talking about his
• 14:04
  therapist? And he goes?
• 14:06
  A deep seated man adjusted, he said.
• 14:08
  Mind you, I had just attempted to kill him.
• 14:10
  Was it? Was it?
• 14:12
  Did we go somewhere? That sounds like an insult?
• 14:14
  That does. Don't think about it too hard,
• 14:18
  dear. But you give yourself a hernia.
• 14:22
  Oh, hang on a second. Someone's just gone down that
• 14:24
  shaft. Poor old, poor old tabby.
• 14:27
  And this is the bit with the knife.
• 14:29
  She's coming at her with a knife.
• 14:30
  This is really quite scary, I think when she's like what a
• 14:33
  naughty little girl we are. There's something very sinister
• 14:39
  about that, yeah. And and and a bit real world and
• 14:45
  I think. Here he comes.
• 14:46
  Oh God. What I love about it though, is
• 14:51
  it takes a few seconds for him to realise that there is
• 14:54
  actually something going on for once, rather than him just
• 14:57
  scaring our ladies. And unfortunately you can see
• 15:01
  the string that is attached to the knife where they've pulled
• 15:06
  the knife away from the wall and then reversed it.
• 15:09
  Unfortunately, but never mind, you know, it's what primitive
• 15:12
  times. Yeah.
• 15:15
  I'm sorry, Sorry, back to Nick Mallet.
• 15:17
  Yeah. So I I think he, I like I say I
• 15:22
  mean I I'm, I I I mean from a from a directorial point of
• 15:28
  view. I don't really go into those
• 15:30
  kind of things too deep. But, but I know that all three
• 15:33
  of those stories that he did are ones that I hold quite highly,
• 15:39
  and I enjoy all three of them. I mean, I suppose in perceived
• 15:47
  fan wisdom, the only one that's perceived as a classic is is
• 15:51
  Curse, isn't it? And there's some ah, there's
• 15:54
  some wonderful bits in that. I love that.
• 15:56
  All those kind of like underwater shots of the of the
• 15:59
  that. Was JNTJNT.
• 16:02
  Oh wow. Yeah.
• 16:06
  So one bit of direction I'm highlighting was by somebody
• 16:09
  else. No, of course, sorry.
• 16:10
  Yeah. Oh, right.
• 16:11
  OK. But again, I mean, I don't know.
• 16:16
  I don't know if you've ever had the pleasure of going to
• 16:18
  Lilworth Cove and Durdle Door. No.
• 16:21
  Not yet. It's beautiful.
• 16:25
  I've done it a couple of Times Now and it's it's just fantastic
• 16:28
  because it it still looks as it did in Curse of Fenrick.
• 16:34
  You know where they shot para the doctor at the end?
• 16:37
  Yes. Same place, yeah.
• 16:38
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 16:39
  The the, the sort of arch thing. That's Durdle.
• 16:41
  Yeah, down in Dorset. I'll say one thing I will say
• 16:46
  for Nick Mallet is I think he's got 3 brilliant casts in all of
• 16:50
  his story that the acting on display is out of this world.
• 16:57
  I think he is a very flawed director.
• 17:01
  I think he gets the lightness of touch in Mysterious Planet
• 17:04
  right? But the action is a bit awkward,
• 17:09
  especially that pit where Collins tied up to that machine.
• 17:13
  It's all a bit pony. I think in this he's he's
• 17:18
  directing well within the studio, but tonally I don't
• 17:22
  think he's quite got it right. No, because I I mean you you've
• 17:28
  said it yourself tonight a couple of times that that the
• 17:31
  story that he seems to be telling, it feels like a
• 17:34
  different one to what Stephen Wyatt wanted to tell.
• 17:38
  They, they, they, they, you know, I think those really
• 17:42
  successful stories, it feels like it's a coming together of
• 17:45
  everything, you know, the the director, the script writer, the
• 17:47
  script editor, the producer, the the, you know, the the special
• 17:51
  effects and all that sort of thing.
• 17:52
  When they when they come together and work together as a
• 17:55
  team, you you you've got magic there.
• 17:57
  But it does feel like there's a little bit of a disconnect here.
• 18:01
  It's a funny script that Stephen White has written, hands full of
• 18:05
  funny lines, but the best way to deliver that I think in Doctor
• 18:07
  Who is play it straight and let the comedy come out of it.
• 18:11
  Whereas I feel like this is played as a comedy a lot of the
• 18:14
  time, which doesn't make you really enjoyable to watch, but
• 18:18
  perhaps not as disturbing as it might have been.
• 18:23
  Yeah. Whereas oh don't come at me with
• 18:26
  knives. I actually think because Fenrik
• 18:28
  is his weakest direction, I think I don't think he shoots
• 18:32
  very well on location. I don't think he frames shots
• 18:35
  very well. I don't think he's edited very
• 18:37
  well. I think there are.
• 18:38
  There is some great stuff in there, but I think he's a it
• 18:42
  does look a bit awkward at times.
• 18:44
  I. Think that's the thing, though.
• 18:45
  We've we've we've Fenrik because there was so much material.
• 18:49
  You know like like you say enough to fill another episode
• 18:54
  that that he could have gone to five.
• 18:57
  I I guess because of the way that they had to be so brutal
• 19:00
  with the edit I I guess some of it gets, you know?
• 19:04
  We're not seeing his vision, are.
• 19:05
  We. No, no, exactly.
• 19:06
  Yeah. But I accept that as a minority
• 19:10
  view, and because Fenerick is a much treasured story by everyone
• 19:14
  but me, I'll shut up. But I do think he always
• 19:21
  produced his own very watchable. Yeah, like like like I say the
• 19:24
  the three stories that he did. I I love all all three of those.
• 19:29
  You mean what you said earlier about the set and how big it
• 19:31
  feels? Do you think it's because not
• 19:33
  only because they've done the two levels and they saw it is a
• 19:36
  big set, but because there's so many walkways to other
• 19:39
  directions, it just feels like this, like maze?
• 19:43
  Yeah I mean I should imagine it's not as big as it looks but
• 19:47
  the the set design has done a absolutely superb job in kind of
• 19:53
  being clever with with what little they've got.
• 19:56
  I I I think you know because like you say you've got all
• 19:58
  these walkways but you've you've got corridors coming off of it.
• 20:02
  So it's it's one of those things where it feels like you're
• 20:05
  always looking at a new a new corridor.
• 20:08
  A corridor that they haven't done been down before.
• 20:09
  They probably have, but they've dressed it.
• 20:12
  And and shot it from angles where where you get that kind of
• 20:15
  like this isn't this is a bit of paradise towers we haven't
• 20:18
  explored yet you know. You said it there, shot it.
• 20:20
  So fair play to Malik because he then he has to shoot it at
• 20:24
  different angles and make it feel bath.
• 20:27
  It's a bit like what Fiona Cumming does in the TARDIS in
• 20:29
  Castro Valva. Clearly she's got a tiny
• 20:32
  corridor to shoot in, and she makes it feel like a labyrinth.
• 20:36
  Yeah, and that's just. The work of a of a clever oh,
• 20:39
  what do you think about this bit here where it starts off?
• 20:41
  He's in the chair being interrogated by the chief
• 20:43
  caretaker and by the end of the scene the chief caretaker's in
• 20:47
  the chair being interrogated by the doctor.
• 20:50
  Yeah it is brilliant and and you know that that that's that that
• 20:54
  that feels like another classic 7th Doctor moment isn't it When
• 20:59
  he he he's able to out out think and out talk his his and like
• 21:05
  you say because because the Richard Reyer's performance of
• 21:11
  this is so large Mccoy's really quite contained quite small and
• 21:16
  and and and it does play to his his strengths as an actor he he
• 21:20
  does those bits so well. I always think when he under
• 21:23
  plays he's brilliant. Ghost light, burnt toast, bus
• 21:26
  stations, it's just brilliant. Go listen to him in Master the
• 21:30
  Big Finish story where he's underplaying so much of that Oh
• 21:34
  my God, he goes to the key chief caretaker, he goes, I don't know
• 21:38
  why you do that. But then I'm not a power crazy
• 21:41
  psychopath. He's crazy.
• 21:44
  Oh, this is that line from Clive Merrison about two of the
• 21:48
  ulsters have gone down the waste disposal unit.
• 21:51
  I mean, it's funny this, Yeah. Again, they they've at this
• 21:58
  point they feel like a brilliant double act.
• 22:01
  The the Deputy and the chief, did they work really well
• 22:04
  together? It's why, when in episode 4,
• 22:08
  he's behaving like he's constipated, you know, walking
• 22:11
  around with that strange walk. He's like when the chief
• 22:14
  caretaker clearly is not the chief care.
• 22:19
  He jumps over the cleaner. Robots get out of the room.
• 22:22
  He legs it, yeah. I want no more funny business
• 22:25
  with the rule book this time, Dan.
• 22:27
  OK, OK. I love, I love the.
• 22:32
  I don't know, he's probably done them all now.
• 22:34
  But his, his, his, his way of referring to the Doctor.
• 22:38
  Is sunbeam like that, you know? I love that bitch.
• 22:43
  Doesn't go at one point. There'll be something in here
• 22:46
  without a deal with it. Oh, this bit is total panto.
• 22:52
  Where she goes? Oh, we'll be all right.
• 22:56
  As long as the lights don't go out And the lights go out.
• 22:59
  It's like, you know, who are we aiming this at?
• 23:03
  I. Mean.
• 23:03
  This must have been a really hard scene to act because.
• 23:10
  You're talking about the whole story here, or just that?
• 23:12
  Scene. No, no, no, no.
• 23:13
  Just just well, there are other bits but that that that lift bit
• 23:18
  because how do you make it's quite mundane, sinister and
• 23:25
  threatening. It's like, I mean I don't know
• 23:28
  whether they do it successfully or not.
• 23:30
  If your body Langford, you take it up to 11.
• 23:33
  Yeah, yeah. But I do love the bit where the
• 23:38
  lift starts free falling. That's when it's really doing
• 23:41
  that. The building's trying to kill us
• 23:42
  stuff, you know? And then I fucking love the bits
• 23:47
  in the pool without robot. When I was a kid, oh man, I used
• 23:53
  to be in my bath. I was like, you're right, Yeah,
• 23:58
  I'm just playing male. No, again, it's it's another
• 24:06
  brilliant piece of of design as well.
• 24:09
  I think it's it feels like it's you know, again, it feels like
• 24:12
  something they've actually spent some money on.
• 24:14
  They haven't, you know. It doesn't feel like they've
• 24:16
  skimped on that, even though it's only.
• 24:19
  What is it in the story for? About like 5 minutes at the
• 24:22
  tops, you know? I do like POV shots from his
• 24:25
  heart, don't I? And stuff.
• 24:26
  Pixelation. With Mel there with a gun.
• 24:30
  Oh I love this bit. I'll tell you why.
• 24:33
  It's because as you've got her from keeping up appearances and
• 24:36
  in from the good life. So it's like a sitcom convention
• 24:40
  and he bribes her, doesn't he? You keep your mouth shut.
• 24:44
  I'll give you a bigger department, bigger apartment,
• 24:46
  you know about their deaths. And it makes it feel like this
• 24:48
  is a bigger world with sort of relationships between people and
• 24:53
  rules being broken. And I.
• 24:55
  But it's not doesn't feature the regulars at all, no.
• 24:58
  No I mean that's that's I think that's the lovely bit about this
• 25:03
  that there is wonderful world building in it isn't it that you
• 25:08
  know it's and it's not necessarily revolving around the
• 25:13
  Doctor and Mao you know they're they're they're sort of weave
• 25:17
  throughout this this world and they're trying to piece it
• 25:20
  together so that they can sort it but but you know we are
• 25:24
  looking in on these lives of these various.
• 25:29
  It feels, it feels like a an established setting before the
• 25:35
  Doctor and Mel arrive, and it feels like a setting that will
• 25:39
  go on after the Doctor and Mel have left.
• 25:42
  I'm telling you now, not every Doctor Who's story does that.
• 25:45
  A lot of Doctor Who stories feel like they are custom made for
• 25:48
  the Doctor to appear in, sort everything out and then go and
• 25:51
  that's all they exist for. You know?
• 25:53
  I'm talking what monster? A peloton Time Lash.
• 25:56
  That sort of story, Yeah. Did you?
• 26:00
  Did you? Did you?
• 26:02
  I don't know if you're into comics, but did you ever read
• 26:06
  the is it Obvious comics cutaway comics?
• 26:09
  They did. They did a A Paradise Towers
• 26:16
  for. Potter.
• 26:18
  I haven't read it, but one of my contributors to the book club is
• 26:22
  Ian Winston, who works for Cutaway Comics and does writing
• 26:25
  for them and play audio plays and things like that.
• 26:28
  And he's told me a lot about it. They've also done oh, Happiness
• 26:32
  Patrol as well. Yeah, I can't wait to see.
• 26:35
  That's Adrian Salmon drawing that.
• 26:36
  Why have you got that one then? The Paradise Hours one?
• 26:38
  I have yeah I I well I've got the first three parts I haven't
• 26:41
  got the 4th one I I I never got I don't know why I never got
• 26:44
  round to to buying it but I will do at some point but yeah I mean
• 26:47
  they they it was it was really good and it and it also kind of
• 26:50
  showed it's it I feel that point of view of you're seeing
• 26:54
  paradise towers after the after the ducks has been in calm you
• 26:59
  know money and and and how it although he's he's caused a
• 27:06
  revolution and sorted this but there's still issues you know
• 27:10
  it's it's not the magic wand this is now perfect society kind
• 27:13
  of thing. Some really great point because
• 27:15
  there's a couple of Doctor Who stories where I'm like I would
• 27:17
  really like to see because the Doctors basically Swans in
• 27:20
  changes the entire planet. I'm thinking like the sun makers
• 27:24
  where he just goes off at the end and leaves the rebels Bye
• 27:26
  you know, and then just toss someone off a building.
• 27:30
  Our adventures on virus, these are horrible people.
• 27:33
  He's overthrown, you know, the evil part of the government and
• 27:37
  just left the rest and completely OK, what the hell
• 27:39
  will happen next? Yeah, yeah.
• 27:42
  It's not a basis for a stable government, is he?
• 27:46
  So what happened in Paradise Towers?
• 27:47
  Do you remember? No.
• 27:53
  Well, I'll tell you what, before we do our next hamster
• 27:56
  commentary. That's if I haven't scared you
• 27:57
  off, then have a read and you can fill us in.
• 28:01
  Yeah, I'll I'll get the 4th part so I can tell the whole story.
• 28:09
  I like all of this. The the disc that shows the back
• 28:13
  story of Paradise Towers being created and how it was supposed
• 28:16
  to look. And all of that because they
• 28:19
  really are seeding this idea that the the person behind this
• 28:24
  incredible building is in fact the evil mastermind that is
• 28:28
  trying to murder everybody. Do you think we've made the
• 28:33
  connection at this point that that thing in the basement which
• 28:37
  really scared me as a kid, that voice that hungry?
• 28:40
  Have we made the connection that that's Karagnon, or do we have
• 28:44
  to be told? I mean, that's a I mean, I don't
• 28:52
  know if I cared as a child. I don't think I did.
• 28:55
  Generally I. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was.
• 29:00
  It was sort of like one of those.
• 29:01
  Oh yeah, I see. When, when, when, when?
• 29:04
  It was kind of fully explained. What are you doing there?
• 29:09
  Robotic cleaner number 479. I mean look at look at the, the
• 29:14
  shadows and the and the highlights.
• 29:16
  I mean, we don't see that very often in.
• 29:19
  This is what warriors that are deep should have looked like.
• 29:21
  Yeah. Oh yeah, with that red emergency
• 29:24
  lighting, you. You've seen submarines.
• 29:26
  Yeah, big time. Big time.
• 29:28
  Imagine the Merkah coming down that corridor.
• 29:30
  We'd barely be able to see him. Marvellous.
• 29:33
  Yeah, which? Which is what you needed.
• 29:35
  This is a bit punched in it. This him kicking the wobbling.
• 29:40
  Wobbling a bit as well, you know.
• 29:42
  He's touching it. She's definitely 11.
• 29:45
  She's like, well done, Pegs. Tone it down, Bonnie, come on.
• 29:52
  Oh, they're by all accounts like people.
• 29:56
  And Jay said they never wrote a scream into the script.
• 29:58
  Never once. So I think And JNT wanted a
• 30:03
  screamer and he wanted like in Trial of Time and he wanted her
• 30:08
  to scream into the key of title music.
• 30:13
  So what's weird is we said earlier about the the music, the
• 30:18
  original score that was very primitive and sort of 60s and he
• 30:22
  said no, that's too dated. I want to say more modern.
• 30:24
  And yet, in other ways, it's a throwback to the past.
• 30:30
  I think that's the thing he he's a very complex character, wasn't
• 30:33
  he? He read that book very complex.
• 30:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and very problematic in many
• 30:39
  ways if all of that's true. Can I ask you a question that I
• 30:45
  can only ask you? Really.
• 30:46
  Oh, who's the best looking Kang? Fire escape.
• 30:52
  Fire escape. Is she the one with the punk wig
• 30:53
  or the curly air? The the punk wig.
• 30:56
  Oh yeah, she's is. Is that Mark Strickson's wife?
• 30:59
  Yeah. At this point she was.
• 31:01
  Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, In fact, there's a
• 31:04
  wonderful story about that in JNT's diary that he did for
• 31:08
  Doctor Who Magazine, where Mark Strickson put his head into
• 31:11
  JNT's office and went John, Julie and I were getting
• 31:14
  married, all right, but please know publicity.
• 31:18
  And he he kept his word because he'll he'll get publicity out of
• 31:22
  anything. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:25
  Oh, wow. Yeah, No.
• 31:27
  Yeah, without a shadow of doubt. I didn't even have to think
• 31:30
  about that. Yeah, fire risking all day long.
• 31:34
  Also, we've got the blue kangs and the red kangs all together
• 31:36
  now. Yeah.
• 31:40
  See, that's what I like, is the bit where McCoy goes, you know?
• 31:43
  How the hell are we going to unite the factions of Paradise
• 31:46
  Towers, you know? But it yeah, but it it kind of,
• 31:50
  it comes together quite organically though, doesn't it?
• 31:53
  That because it because it's almost in in the pool that we've
• 31:56
  just just entered now, isn't it? Where he turns up with the the
• 32:00
  Kangs and he's got the Blue and the Reds kind of working
• 32:03
  together. And you know, then then Maddie
• 32:07
  turns up and says we need your help.
• 32:08
  And you know, and it's funny because because you know, the
• 32:11
  Kangs are there going well, you know, we'll we'll work with the
• 32:14
  Rezis. Or is it no to do is.
• 32:17
  It no to do. Yeah, no to do.
• 32:20
  We'll work with pecs. No to do, but we'll never, ever
• 32:24
  work with the Caretaker. Just as the Empty pulls the
• 32:28
  curtain. Back he goes, Hello.
• 32:32
  Oh, I just wonder, although Mccoy's a bit naughty and that
• 32:34
  bit as well. She goes, did you hear a noise?
• 32:36
  Mel goes. She goes to investigate.
• 32:38
  She goes, oh, it was nothing. And then McCoy goes.
• 32:40
  They comes out of the curtain, doesn't he?
• 32:43
  I've got to say, you know, given all the hive around this
• 32:46
  beautiful crystal watered pool, the one that's presented with us
• 32:51
  is a little bit substandard. Yeah, it it's.
• 32:56
  It's nothing special, is it? At least they did get a pool.
• 32:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh.
• 33:01
  I love that robot so much. That yellow robot.
• 33:04
  Yeah, see this? This was my one encounter with
• 33:11
  some other people that watched Doctor Who the only time.
• 33:16
  So the school that I went to, as as you can imagine, rural
• 33:20
  school, very small. And there were only there were
• 33:26
  there weren't very many of us that have had hot dinners.
• 33:29
  Everyone else had packed lunches, so they kept all of us
• 33:31
  hot dinners to two or three tables.
• 33:34
  And there was this one kid in the school.
• 33:37
  He was a couple years older than me, called Stan, and he was, he
• 33:42
  was a bit of a Jackala lad, bit of a rebel kind of thing.
• 33:45
  So it was really, it was really cool that he was on our table,
• 33:49
  right? And and I was, I was like, Oh
• 33:52
  yeah, you know, I'm with Stan, you know, kind of thing.
• 33:58
  All with Stan and. Yeah, but it was really
• 34:03
  surprising the the lunchtime after this episode came out with
• 34:07
  with the yellow crab robot attacking Mel in the pool.
• 34:10
  Yeah. He he, he goes, he goes, he
• 34:14
  goes, Did you watch Doctor Who last night?
• 34:16
  I go, yeah. Oh my.
• 34:19
  God you stand watches Doctor Who.
• 34:21
  Yeah, exactly. He he was going, yeah, it was
• 34:23
  really cool, wasn't it? That robot was brilliant, you
• 34:26
  know? And I was like, wow, where did
• 34:32
  this come from? I I had no idea.
• 34:34
  Anyone else like Doctor Who you know and?
• 34:36
  You're so funny. Stan is such an old man name,
• 34:39
  isn't it? Yeah.
• 34:40
  Yeah, but there was me thinking, wow, he's so cool.
• 34:44
  So sorry you was in the hot dinner club, were you?
• 34:46
  Were you in the cold, cold blood?
• 34:47
  Club hot dinners. Yes, you must have had some
• 34:50
  money then. Oh, well, I, I yeah, we had to,
• 34:53
  yeah, I remember I had to take in like our lunch money in an
• 34:58
  envelope every Monday to pay for the pay for the dinners.
• 35:02
  And I can even remember now I think it was like £2.50 for the
• 35:06
  week. Oh yeah, Jesus.
• 35:09
  Christ, that wouldn't get you a portion of the chips, now you.
• 35:11
  Know you wouldn't get a meal deal from, you know, I suppose
• 35:15
  or wherever for that. That was I.
• 35:19
  Now look, I don't know if you noticed that, but Richard
• 35:22
  Breyers was in fact taken over by a sinister light at the end
• 35:25
  of that episode. And he's he's in getting sort of
• 35:29
  being dragged in there going. I've always given you taste a
• 35:32
  little morsels. You know what?
• 35:34
  What's the matter? And then Sylvester McCoy was
• 35:37
  rather unconvincingly grabbed by the OR the clinic law, or rather
• 35:41
  put his neck into it because the cleaner couldn't reach him.
• 35:44
  Is that one of the better Doctor Who cliffhangers?
• 35:50
  Well, I mean a bit. Of a leading question there.
• 35:53
  Yeah, yeah. I mean like if you, if you've
• 35:58
  come from the Colin Baker into this, then this probably seems
• 36:03
  quite dramatic and dynamic, doesn't it?
• 36:05
  Because, bless him, all the cliffhangers were pretty much a
• 36:10
  crash. Zoom into Colin Banks went.
• 36:12
  Up his nose. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:15
  So I think if you look at it from that point of view, you it
• 36:18
  probably would be quite exciting.
• 36:20
  But yeah, it's not. It's, It's not.
• 36:25
  I mean it's on paper, it's possession and an attack by
• 36:28
  robots. I just don't know if the
• 36:31
  directions that is strongest there.
• 36:33
  No, but but I mean like that point you were saying that that
• 36:36
  you know Sylvester had to put his, his, his neck into it.
• 36:40
  They they've had that problem since the first since that head
• 36:43
  taker. Because he he almost grabs it,
• 36:45
  doesn't he? And and pulls the claw over to
• 36:48
  his just the camera's a bit. Tired at that point, so
• 36:53
  disguises it a bit more. He's doing this in sort of mid
• 36:55
  shot. Yeah I I think that's I think in
• 36:59
  theory it's great in what we actually see not so yeah I I I
• 37:07
  mean like I think cliffhangers for this story the the only one
• 37:11
  that I feel is very good or or or good is is that one where
• 37:15
  Mel's menaced by the the two Rezis.
• 37:17
  I like I think because because just because it's whoa, that's
• 37:20
  shocking. I I feel that's the best of one
• 37:24
  of the best of the season as well.
• 37:25
  I think, yeah, I don't think this is the strongest year at
• 37:29
  4:00. You know when you've got, like,
• 37:33
  weird green puppets popping up an egg that's meant to be a
• 37:39
  baby? With the thumb of the mouth, you
• 37:42
  know, or I'm not sure. The bubble trap cliffhanger is
• 37:45
  great, isn't it? What time in Irani won the
• 37:47
  bubble trap Cliff? Yeah, that's a good.
• 37:49
  Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's
• 37:51
  any others. No.
• 37:51
  I see the fella that attacks them in Delta with the Elvis
• 37:55
  Presley sort of cosplay. That's not the best in the
• 37:58
  world, Do you? Because you you guys when you
• 38:01
  when you did that commentary on that, you didn't mention that he
• 38:04
  he's a a musician the guy that plays the the obviously.
• 38:08
  I didn't know, Yeah. Do you do you remember they were
• 38:12
  an A cappella group called the Flying pickets in the in the in
• 38:16
  the 80s. Do you remember those?
• 38:19
  What? Was one of their famous songs.
• 38:21
  Only you. La La La La yeah, La La La La.
• 38:27
  He's. No, he's not.
• 38:28
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the fellow who goes, I
• 38:31
  don't just do it because I I do it for pleasure.
• 38:34
  Like it? Yeah.
• 38:35
  With the the Brahmi accent. Yeah, yeah.
• 38:37
  Yeah, that's the fellow from only you.
• 38:39
  Yeah, I'm pretty sure, Yeah. Oh.
• 38:40
  Buckle me. I can learn something new every
• 38:42
  day. Yeah.
• 38:44
  I'm going to throw a couple more questions at you, if that's all
• 38:47
  right before before we out, Dave Rennie asks, Hello, Dave, Which
• 38:53
  Kangs are the best? Reds.
• 38:56
  Reds. Yeah, about Shadow, Madam.
• 38:58
  It's only because he wants to have it off with Mark
• 39:00
  Strickson's ex-wife, Yeah, it is the Reds, definitely.
• 39:03
  Or I'll say with whoever. Yeah, fabulous lady from Bad
• 39:06
  Wolf. Whatever side she's on, I'll go
• 39:08
  with. OK.
• 39:10
  Damien Macmillan just says I love this episode.
• 39:13
  Quite right. So do we, Time Lord, Danny says
• 39:17
  Mrs. Remington Fan. That's David Maskell and I would
• 39:22
  like to know who you prefer out of Tilda or Tabby if you had to
• 39:27
  pick one. I would go with Tabby, Tabby,
• 39:35
  Tabby. Yeah.
• 39:38
  I I I might need to be corrected on this as well, but I believe
• 39:42
  the actress that played Tabby was in a ACBBC programme called
• 39:49
  Simon and the Witch. Did you remember?
• 39:50
  That yes. Yeah, so, so I I for me it's
• 39:54
  like, oh, it's the witch from Simon and the witch.
• 39:57
  So yeah, I I've got enough you. You kind of get attachments
• 40:00
  through that sort of childhood programming also.
• 40:03
  Elizabeth Spriggs. That's the actress's name, who
• 40:05
  was originally cast as Cicini between the two doctors.
• 40:09
  But Peter Moffett fired her because she wouldn't turn up for
• 40:12
  rehearsals. Wow.
• 40:15
  Yeah. Wow.
• 40:16
  So you don't learn anything on this podcast.
• 40:18
  No. And she also appeared in a truly
• 40:22
  abysmal episode of the 90s. Tomorrow People was by far the
• 40:26
  best. Thing is, she was just mad Old
• 40:28
  Country bumpkin. But she was very funny in that
• 40:31
  too. See, I mean it's not a program
• 40:33
  I've watched The Tomorrow's People, but I hear it the
• 40:36
  production wise it was really. Really.
• 40:38
  You know, the 90s one, actually, the production values were
• 40:41
  pretty good. The early ones, I mean.
• 40:44
  I'll. I'll recommend a few.
• 40:46
  There's one with Sylvester McCoy.
• 40:48
  It's Sylvester McCoy. Peter Davidson in gold
• 40:50
  underpants and a terrible wig. OK, we've got a question here
• 40:54
  from, I don't know who this person is, Rod who?
• 40:57
  Who asks? Do you have anyone called Rod?
• 40:59
  Ian Oliver, If you foolishly believe, like Andrew Carbel,
• 41:04
  that two actors are hideously miscast, namely Briers and Cook,
• 41:09
  who would you have cast instead as the chief caretaker and Pex?
• 41:15
  Well, I. I will stand by this and I feel
• 41:19
  that that Briers is a good casting in my in my opinion
• 41:25
  we've talked about that I I feel that that his his persona is the
• 41:30
  as that sort of officious kind of caretaker is brilliant.
• 41:35
  I I I do have issue a bit of possession.
• 41:39
  Oh. Who would you?
• 41:44
  That's a good question. X was.
• 41:47
  There any muscle men in British acting talent at the time?
• 41:52
  The general problem with that is that if you've got someone who's
• 41:56
  big and muscly, they tend to not be a very good actor.
• 41:58
  Do they? Arnold Schwarzenegger, I'm
• 42:01
  looking at you. Yeah, it's it's a good point.
• 42:04
  What about Sony Calderas, who played Kemel in Evil and the
• 42:07
  Daleks? He was a big muscly bloke, yeah.
• 42:14
  Yeah, but but he then they, they made him have like mute parts,
• 42:20
  didn't they? He didn't.
• 42:22
  And have you heard him on the documentaries?
• 42:23
  He's fucking hilarious, that man.
• 42:25
  Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.
• 42:29
  I mean it's I'm trying to think who who was kind of in the 80s
• 42:34
  he was around that was reasonably mostly in in in UK.
• 42:39
  I don't. I think we could search for some
• 42:42
  time and come up with absolutely nothing.
• 42:45
  But but I do agree with Rod that that I don't think it because
• 42:51
  because it feels like part of that part was that he was meant
• 42:57
  to be this big muscly guy who was a coward and we ended up
• 43:01
  with with this guy who who you know is is not very big you know
• 43:09
  and it and it and you lose that that kind of joke I suppose that
• 43:16
  like. Visually you missed the point of
• 43:17
  the character, but I do think Cook gives a good performance.
• 43:20
  Oh yes, yeah, without a shadow of a doubt.
• 43:21
  I I think he, you know, what he does do with the part is is is
• 43:25
  really, really good and he and he plays that sort of caring
• 43:29
  sort of I suppose. You see, it reminds me a little
• 43:34
  bit of how it is going to sound daft, Shaggy from Scooby-doo or
• 43:39
  like, you know, sort of shivering and shaking, you know?
• 43:43
  Raggy. Yeah.
• 43:45
  Oh my God. We just needed a bit.
• 43:46
  He could do the voice, couldn't he?
• 43:48
  You know what, Mel? Oh, sorry, that was awful.
• 43:53
  I mean, all how I could really need this too, was he.
• 43:55
  I don't know 1000 chicken breasts and rice can do you
• 43:59
  know, 9000 reps? I mean, I mean, nowadays you
• 44:03
  actors do that sort of stuff, don't they?
• 44:05
  Yeah. I don't know if they were doing
• 44:07
  it for Doctor in 97, though. They were only getting paid
• 44:10
  about 50, quids. I mind you, Tony Tony Selby put
• 44:14
  on weight for for his role in Doctor Who, didn't he?
• 44:16
  I don't think that was a chore for him.
• 44:18
  No. He said he just ate a load of
• 44:20
  doughnuts. Well look, whilst it would be
• 44:25
  lovely to continue to talk about Tony Selby's dietary habits,
• 44:29
  maybe. We should.
• 44:32
  Jump on into Episode 4. What do you reckon?
• 44:35
  Yes, we should do that. We should, because that's what
• 44:38
  people have come to listen to. People love all the bumps more
• 44:42
  than anything, I'll tell you.