Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / Building a 7 figure beauty brand steeped in Indian rituals with Michelle Ranavat

Transcript

Building a 7 figure beauty brand steeped in Indian rituals with Michelle Ranavat · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Michelle for Female Startup Club.
• 0:12
  Hello and welcome back. It's Dune here, your host and hype girl. I actually cannot believe we are so close to Christmas. Like where the heck did this year go? I don't know. On the show today, we're learning from Michelle Ranavat. She's the founder of Ranavat, a skincare line inspired by Indian beauty rituals.
• 0:36
  With a background in science, four years of work at a prestigious finance firm on Wall Street, and after six years of pharmaceutical sourcing, Michelle fused her expertise with a love and appreciation for artisanal Indian tradition. Since the launch in 2017, Runavat is now sold in department stores such as Neiman Marcus, Credo Beauty, and Specialty Boutiques worldwide.
• 1:01
  This episode is really, really cool. I got so much out of the six questions at the end, and I bet you're going to as well. And if you do, please do shout about it to someone who will benefit from listening to this episode or share a cute post on social media tagging us so we can highlight you on our channels. Let's get into it. This is Michelle for Female Startup Club.
• 1:25
  Michelle, hi, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. What's going on? Well, just here in rainy LA for once. It's not perfect, but I'm here for it. And I'm excited to have a soulful chat with you.
• 1:40
  Me too. I'm excited for a soulful chat. That sounds pretty nice. I always love to start by going back to, you know, your origins and the early beginnings before you even started the brand to understand what you were up to, what got you started, what got you thinking about starting a business. And also, I guess, like for you in particular, what's the first thing
• 2:02
  the kind of things that were going on in your life, the rituals that you were having within beauty and skincare that were getting you excited about starting a brand? So for me, it's really interesting. I think the beauty piece came very much at the end and the initial sort of ideas, whether it to be to start a business or, you know, really even my background in education really came from science.
• 2:29
  And so I think the beauty piece was kind of layered on later. But the humble beginnings were really, you know, my biggest lesson was watching my parents. They immigrated from India to the US in the 70s, and they did not have a security blanket or anything. And the day that my dad found out my parents, you know, my mom was pregnant with me, their oldest, my dad had actually lost his job. And so they filed income below the poverty level. They really just didn't have...
• 2:59
  anywhere to turn. And so my dad decided in that moment, because he grew up with a lot of entrepreneurs in his family, he was like, I'm going to start a company. And of course, that's like, not really the first thing you think about typically when you get laid off, you're just thinking about security. But I think my dad took it as an opportunity. And I feel like that like decision in that moment completely changed the rest of our lives. And so he did that.
• 3:24
  And, you know, I just grew up watching this dream come true just through a lot of hard work. So he started the company in the basement of our home, grew up in a small town of Milwaukee. It's called Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
• 3:39
  And, you know, instead of fancy summer camps, I was in my dad's warehouse. That was my summer camp, picking and packing orders. And I honestly learned a lot through those experiences. And I think that was like the sort of baseline, how I even came to understand what being an entrepreneur is all about. And I think some of those lessons have really guided me and stuck with me to this day.
• 4:07
  Wow. And when does the beauty piece come into it? And what was that kind of light bulb moment where you were like, I'm also going to take this path. I'm going to do this too. So it's really funny because there's a parallel. So when I, so I studied engineering in school and immediately after I got my master's degree. And at that time,
• 4:29
  finance was super hot. Like everyone, that was a very aspirational thing to do. And so I was like, oh, I'm going to work on Wall Street. And I did. And that was a goal of mine and a dream. And I walked into Lehman Brothers feeling really proud of what I had accomplished. And, you know, in my four years there, ultimately the company went bankrupt and I got laid off myself. Yeah.
• 4:49
  So that was really interesting parallel to what happened to my dad. So in that moment, I actually didn't start my company right away. I ended up working at his company for six years. And I actually ended up using my science background a ton. Your dad's company?
• 5:04
  My dad's company. Yeah. I worked there for six years. You went to Oakley's dad? Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. And you know, it was like, it was funny because at that time I was like, oh, I'll do you. I thought it was like a favor. I mean, I had no other job, but I just felt like, okay, my dad's been kind of like hinting at, you know, wanting me to come on and help him. And I didn't have any other options at that point. So I just kind of thought I would try it out. I had nothing to lose. And it was honestly one of the most rewarding experiences. And I,
• 5:33
  I loved working with my dad and I and my actually my entire family at some point has worked there. So we all were working together. So funny. What were you doing within the business? Like what like part of the business were you kind of focused on?
• 5:49
  So I was focused on, well, I did a lot of different things, but my background is in industrial engineering. So I was focused on process and quality, ingredient sourcing, manufacturing, product development. So what we do is all of the large pharma companies that are building, you know, new building blocks for life and new drugs, and they're trying to find new cures, we're going to do that.
• 6:12
  what they do is they start with R&D. And so they work with a company like ours to provide all the raw materials for their R&D products
• 6:20
  experiments and programs. And so we're really at that early stage of discovery where we're making sure that the quality is right. How do you scale? How do you pick the right manufacturer, not just for today, but for when you're scaling up? What are the issues that happen when you scale up? And so this was really like a lesson in product development, ultimately, which I think you can already see where the link to beauty is coming in. But at that point, I just I really didn't
• 6:47
  combine the two together, but it was a good six years of traveling to places like Switzerland, where, you know, biotech and all of that is just so extremely popular and made it such a high level. And so what I got to see was exposure to some of the best manufacturing facilities. And I think I
• 7:08
  as a science nerd, I'm actually really quite motivated and inspired by that. And so that was really exciting for me. And it wasn't until I had my two boys that I was on maternity leave and I started to really think about my skin. At that time, I was early 30s and I was noticing that there were some changes. And I after going through the labor and delivery and just having
• 7:38
  I actually realized that it was turning to a lot of these more holistic approaches as well. And I found them to work. And so when I had issues with my skin, I started to think, okay, well, you know, my hair's falling out. It's postpartum hair loss, but what did, what is the, you know, the Ayurvedic
• 7:55
  recipe for this or what sort of ingredients go along with it. And I started to really sort of think and discover and use and try. And ultimately, I realized like, man, stuff is just so good, not available in the US. Like there's this opportunity to really share like my personal perspective of what I view Ayurveda or Indian traditions or, you know, whichever like sort of
• 8:24
  lens you want to look from. It was definitely a combination of heritage, science, all of that, and putting my own brand sort of viewpoint on that and kind of sharing it with the world. And I definitely wanted to take like an ingredient first approach because that's what I learned and was very passionate about to begin with.
• 8:46
  You must have had like everything in place just to get this brand started, get it out there and kind of like have the blueprint in front of you. But maybe that's a kind of obnoxious point of view. What was it like when you were getting started? Like, did you know everything that you needed to do? And what were those early days, like steps that you needed? Yeah.
• 9:06
  Man, I still struggle with so many aspects of the brand. And I think as you grow, you realize like you just have it's really just about continuous learning and not about ever needing or trying to learn everything. But I think the biggest hole that I had in my experience was honestly marketing, because when I came from a B2B space, right, I was in I was selling to pharma companies like that's very different than selling to.
• 9:36
  a consumer. I knew nothing about branding. My mom is actually an interior designer. She's very artistic. She's very, has her own sense of style.
• 9:46
  really keen sense of just like, whether it's brand, brand positioning, like she really like loves and understands it. She's like a avid consumer and shopper, I will say. So maybe it doesn't come from like a professional standpoint, but she loves, she loves shopping. And so, you
• 10:07
  I picked up a little bit, but that was nothing that I studied. And so it's funny. There's an Australian branding agency that I actually called a ton of people NLA.
• 10:19
  Nobody wanted to work with me. I don't know why, but maybe my pitch wasn't great or what. But I basically got turned out from so many LA agencies. I have this product and I knew I had a good product, which I'll get to that. That also changed, which is really interesting. But I knew I had a good product. I knew I had a good concept.
• 10:40
  But I knew nothing about graphics and branding. I knew like I still to this day know what I like and what I don't like, but I'm not like I can't go on Adobe and start making logos and things. So I knew that I wanted to invest. The visionary. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just not like I can say yes or no, but I can't create. And so, yeah, I knew that I needed and I knew I wanted to invest in the brand.
• 11:09
  tip that I would share. And I think one of the best things that I think the biggest things that propelled the brand in early days for sure and still is investing in the brand. I didn't have a ton of resources, but a lot of those resources I did put, you know, after of course having a
• 11:29
  It is very important. I see a lot of people skimping on getting a cheapy logo or just, oh, I'm going to revise it later, like when I have budget. No, like really spend the time. If you can't do 50 things from a top designer, do two things from a top designer. But don't don't change the top designer, like use the good person.
• 11:49
  Because that's really what's going to stick and grow your brand. And so I worked with this agency in Sydney, actually. And they were like one of the first people to like take on the project. That's so cool. What's it called? It's called Smack Bang Designs. Oh, yeah, I know it. I love it. You do? Very cool. They've worked on so many. Yeah. So I had a really...
• 12:11
  positive experience working with them. And I do think Australia, like just kind of what we touched upon earlier, like recall, they have a very keen sense in terms of like holistic and health. And so, yes, like LA would have been great, but I actually kind of like that I was turned down by a lot of LA people because when you use the same agencies, everything tends to look alike. And so having this like renewed perspective, working with someone that,
• 12:38
  honestly, in like in a different country and, you know, totally different perspective on branding, but very keen sense. And they really did understand some of this holistic approach. And they had done a couple of skincare brands prior. And so I just felt like, you know, I think that they understand me. And the first mood boards that they even put together were,
• 12:58
  I just like was in love. And even to this day, we do get a lot of Australian customers. And in my like mind, in my heart, I'm always like, yes, because this soul is in Australia because we actually did. The brand did come to life there. So I always have like this very sort of soft spot for it. But we actually still to this day work with someone that...
• 13:18
  was at the agency on our graphics as well. So we still have a bit of Australian, you know, blood on our team, which is exciting. But no, I think... I love that. Right. It just gives a kind of a more global holistic picture. I love having like just different opinions. Like we all have the same mission and vision for the brand. But I like that we all have different points of view that we kind of sprinkle in.
• 13:44
  And yeah, so I just I feel like early days it was investing in that brand. And yeah, maybe a lot of people said no to me, but I'm actually kind of happy that that happened because I ended up working with someone that really did cement the right brand positioning for us.
• 14:03
  Yeah, absolutely. Branding is so key, especially in today's world. Everything is saturated. You need to find ways to stand out. And that's your billboard. If someone sees you on a shelf, you have to make sure that that is catching someone's eye. I even think if people tell me there's two products next to each other and they're like, maybe one's not as good as the other one, I'm still going to go for the one that looks great. I'm just attracted to great packaging. Yeah.
• 14:30
  the look and feel of stuff. Like obviously we're visual creatures. So important. I'm with you there. I think we all are. It's kind of like when you walk into an interview and if I wore like sweats and my hair was crazy and I came to this interview to be the CEO of Google, I just don't know like how much I could wow them if like,
• 14:50
  They're not seeing like it. But if I dress the part and I look perfect, you know, and then I'm like selling myself, it just like it matters. Like, you know, you have to admit like you can't. There's just certain things that do contribute visually. And I think skin care is very visual. Any sort of consumer brand, it's selling an emotion as much as. And it's more interesting because it's like that's what they're seeing on the shelf first.
• 15:16
  So you have to connect with someone emotionally before they can even like, that's like, they won't even try your product if you haven't made that emotional connection with the packaging and the story and like why they're gravitating towards you. So I think it's like really...
• 15:32
  you know, super important. And I think these days, right, like you need everything, like you need an amazing product, you need the right packaging, you need a really unique and sort of soul touching story. But I think all of that really is great, because it pushes us a bit further, because I think we all have that within us. It's just that we have to, you know, now we're a bit more, how do I say this, but I think we just have to pull it out of ourselves a bit more.
• 16:02
  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You touched on something a moment ago that you said we should come back to. So I want to circle back to that. And that was around the product and how it changed. Can you talk about the product development in those early days and what you mean by that?
• 16:18
  Yeah. So, you know, being not a formulator by nature, so definitely work with lots of chemists and worked on the manufacturing side. And again, I would say I do have this like sense. I know a good beauty product when I see it, experience it, create it.
• 16:34
  I had all of those things, but I do think that I did evolve as a formulator. And I think that's really important for people to know that like you don't just start where you start isn't where you finish. And that's something that I definitely improved upon as I developed the brand. So first, I didn't have a ton of incredible success.
• 16:56
  you know, manufacturing content contacts. I was really just trying my best. And so what I wanted to do was come to market quickly. And so I created this, these masks and they were these beautiful, actually they're New Zealand Manuka honey masks with Ayurvedic botanical ingredients. And they honestly, they were incredible. They're really good products.
• 17:15
  But I never was in the beauty industry. So I didn't realize that like these like powder mixing, you know, so the idea was to take three different hydrosols and three different masks and mix and mask. So the idea was like you could kind of take like lavender hydrosol.
• 17:33
  mix it in with your, you know, detoxifying mask. And they were honestly really good products. But, you know, I didn't realize that like the whole idea of DIY and mixing and matching wasn't something that people really enjoy or want to do with their ritual.
• 17:51
  And I found that out over time and I got much more sophisticated with the formulations and what I wanted to do. So ultimately that like mass, like everything in that line that I launched with does not even exist. There's one product, which is the Jasmine Mist, which still, that's our oldest SKU. I did originally launch with that one, but everything else kind of came a year later. Like, well, the first next thing was my hair oil, which came a year later.
• 18:19
  And then a few months after that was the saffron serum, which is our number one seller. And then, you know, more and more sort of sophisticated products. But yeah, I just I wanted to share that because I started in one place and learned and I wasn't afraid to let go. You know, those are my first things. And I yeah, I discontinued them and they didn't.
• 18:42
  really resonate as much as I thought they would. And honestly, that's okay. I think the most important thing is you just take the feedback and you learn.
• 18:50
  And you evolve. And I did have people that like them. So that's kind of the other thing I would say that might be helpful. It's like, you may have people that still like I had, I also adjusted my packaging. I did a whole rebrand as well after two years. And I had a lot of people that were like, your packaging is so beautiful. You should keep it. I mean, my entire trajectory of the company shifted when I adjusted my packaging. So, you know, you may get
• 19:15
  people that encourage you to stay where you are. But I do think it's super important to always learn how to improve. And don't be afraid to evolve. Because where you start, you're going to learn so much that you're going to want to apply those learnings and make your product or whatever it is that you're selling to be better than it was.
• 19:38
  Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so powerful you say that because you can just get so caught up in being paralyzed with like it needs to be perfect. And I've worked on this for so long, so I may as well just keep on working until I feel really 100% confident. But until you put something out there and start getting real feedback from people outside of your own network and outside of your kind of community within your like friends and family, yeah.
• 20:06
  You've you just you're just not going to know. You just need to, like, try and see what happens and iterate as you go and evolve. I totally agree with you. And I think evolution is 100 percent the key and not feeling one. I think like another little, I guess, art of evolution.
• 20:25
  I guess being a founder or creating a brand is like, you kind of have to know what advice to take and what not to take. And I think it's never in either direction. Like you shouldn't take every piece of advice that people give you, but you also shouldn't feel that you're so locked into anything, right? Like I think it's, it's really on that evolution piece of one, it's okay to improve. And I think that's a good thing. And I think people, you know,
• 20:50
  admire that and want you to grow and you know that you're going to evolve as a founder and as a brand. So I think that's completely natural. But also to your point about perfection and seeking that, I think the only way you can get closer to becoming what you want to be is to let go, honestly, of perfection and just continue improving. Because by the time you get to that next stage,
• 21:16
  you're already going to then need to think about, well, great. Well, now how do I improve from there? Like it's just never, it's not a destination. It's a constant process. And that's the same thing with brand. Like I'm, everything's crazy because like we literally relaunch our website like every single year. I'm always thinking about,
• 21:34
  brand and how I evolve my brand. What does it mean? We're adding different lines and different skews. How do we create, how do we improve and make it cohesive? I don't think the everyday customer is going to realize that we're tweaking and building on it exactly. But I think subliminally when they see those little, little details, they end up making quite a big difference.
• 21:58
  Yeah, absolutely. You said another thing that I just want to touch on quickly before we move into money and marketing, which I love to talk about. You said that when you change your branding after two years, it totally changed the trajectory of your business. How and why? What do you mean? Well, I think the whole...
• 22:22
  impetus and story behind the brand is really about luxury positioning. And that's something that I just, it's very...
• 22:31
  it's just the way that I create. Like when I'm creating a product, I'm not thinking like, okay, I need a $50 or something. And how do I figure out what ingredients I can use? I'm like, give me the best of the best. If saffron, sure, we got to use, and I just, that's the way that I want to experience a product. And so that's the lens through which I create. And when I was sort of envisioning
• 22:56
  this luxurious and just what the story was. It just did not fit the packaging. And I think the packaging that I had was great for that moment in time because it was stock packaging. It was this like Myron glass black bottle that we could put a label on. It was amazing.
• 23:14
  In LA, we could pick it up. And I think it was honestly very important for me to start that way because I had super low minimum. So anytime I wanted to change, it was really easy for me to change. I didn't have 10,000 units I was sitting on. And so I actually think that starting that way was fine. Maybe I didn't have them. And people did like the packaging. I worked with what made sense for me. But ultimately, I had the foresight to say...
• 23:43
  That was great. But as I now grow into these new products, and I saw that there was some
• 23:50
  great traction with the saffron serum and the hair serum. I'm like, okay, this like story and what's inside and the quality that we're creating like needs to be represented on the outside. So moving from things like labels to silkscreen packaging, going from things like folding cartons to beautiful rigid boxes, um, taking like,
• 24:14
  you know, clear glass and custom tinting the color. You know, these are things that like you may not be able to do your first round. You know, some people can do that and that's amazing. But I wasn't. And so I knew that I want to elevate and take it another level.
• 24:30
  And, uh, I mean, it's crazy because I did get some feedback initially, oh, I like your old packaging. And I honestly like almost stopped in my tracks and I was like, okay, no, I actually really like this direction. I'm going to stay with it. And I'm telling you like.
• 24:47
  people, it just grew. Like, I just think, I don't know if it was like a subliminal thing or what, like, I don't think anyone said, oh, I like this packaging and now I'm going to buy it. It wasn't like that obvious. It was just, you look at the sales and it was like way, you know, you could see the difference. Mm-hmm.
• 25:06
  Yeah, you could see the change. That's so interesting. And I guess that goes back again to this notion of like where you start isn't where you finish. Start with what you can afford, iterate and evolve it. And as you can, then you can sort of lean into the things that are really important to you and you have that feedback from customers to even be able to kind of level up and move forward.
• 25:28
  Yeah. I mean, imagine if I got like, you know, thousands and thousands of jars that you're mixing masks with that were fully custom. I mean, I probably would have had to throw those out. Not to say that that's I'm sure, you know, that's happened to many people and you've just got to make those decisions. But in a way, you know, it was kind of good that I had packaging I need to change with the product I needed to change. And it all kind of came together.
• 25:53
  Let's switch to talk about the money piece of the puzzle. I always love to understand, you know, how much kind of capital did you need to put in in the beginning? Like how much did it take to get started? And then what is your approach to the kind of working capital and funding plan moving forward? So I had, as you know, worked at Lehman Brothers, so I had a bit of savings from that. So I think I invested about, I want to say $70,000 in the first year just to kind of
• 26:23
  get the product, buy the packaging, make the labels, pay, smack bang designs. That was like a decent chunk of it. And just kind of like, yeah, I didn't hire anyone. I mean, I literally hired my first person November 1st, like a month ago. So this is four years ago. No way. Wow. That's crazy. I swear. I mean, I worked with a lot of contractors. Yeah. I can like, I'm telling you, I do feel like I...
• 26:51
  do a lot with a little. And I'm not saying that's always a good thing because ultimately, I feel like, you know, you are paying for that in timing. Like, I think I could grow faster if I had more people, but my mentality is always to prove something out. And so I've just been very sort of slow and cautious. And I found a lot of leverage with working with a ton of contractors. So I just didn't really...
• 27:18
  feel the need to hire anyone. And then now I'm like, I went from my first hire and I hope that, you know, I'm hiring someone is starting in January and then hopefully we have two more, um, within the first quarter of, uh, 2022. So I'm going from zero to four, hopefully. Um, I just have to find them. That's crazy. Yeah.
• 27:41
  But it's crazy. I mean, begin. Well, if anyone needs a job. If anyone needs a job, we're hiring social media and actually creative directors, the other role that I'm looking to fill, which I'm super excited about. Oof, both fun things. That goes back to my invest in brand. Absolutely.
• 28:00
  Oh, yeah. So, OK, I had one hundred thousand dollars that I put into. So it's like 70 in the first year or something like that. And then I wasn't profitable until the third year. But I also wasn't like bleeding a lot of money like I was still making money. So it's just like, I don't know, 10 to 20 thousand dollars. I just would have to put into the business at the end of the year. And honestly, those years are really hard because I.
• 28:24
  I already spent my Lehman Brothers savings. I wasn't making a salary. And on top of it, I was putting more money into it. And there was a subset of time where it's like, I had my old packaging. I had a product that didn't have a great market fit. Still, for some reason, I kept going on and evolving. And
• 28:50
  And then in that like third year, like things completely changed. And I and then I was profitable. And the reason that I went from like.
• 29:02
  a $20,000 like loss or investment to profitability so quickly was because I didn't have a ton of overhead that I was like needing to go. But like, as soon as I got a bit of traction with retailers coming on board, like it all just showed up in profitability really quickly because I already had created a business infrastructure that was,
• 29:27
  not super, it was already very lean. And so it allowed me to get from investment to profitability very quickly. So as soon as things like started to move, I was able to see that, um, in the bottom line quickly. And I think that also set the stage for, you know, 2021, which was a great year for us, knock on wood. Um,
• 29:48
  But also, again, because I just was very lean and still am very lean. And I think that's important because you need to build a sustainable business. You can't, you know, if you're building something where you're paying to paying customers to take your product or you're not building a profitable business.
• 30:11
  or sustainable business, whether you're hiring like too many employees, whatever it is, you know, it's important to make sure that you're solving that problem on a small scale so that as you grow, you're not multiplying that problem more and more. Wow, that's crazy. Go you. Holy moly. Love this.
• 30:36
  I read that in the beginning, I don't know if this was recently or I think this was probably closer to when you launched like 2017, 2018. I read that you launched early on into Neiman Marcus and you were basically like forced to figure everything out and you were kind of facing a lot of challenges. In those early days, what were those challenges and what were the things that you were having to figure out? And I'm asking you because I'm,
• 31:00
  I know there are a lot of women who are listening who are in that beauty industry and they are wanting to launch into retailers. And so I'd love to kind of like see if we can talk through any of the pitfalls that could potentially be avoided. Yes. Well, I don't know about avoiding because I do feel like part of the journey is experiencing these.
• 31:25
  like difficult pain points of growth. And I think that I experienced those in early days with Neiman Marcus. And I think even now we're experiencing a lot of that too. But I think what it is, is like, it's just preparation for knowing how to scale and learning how to grow your business. And so early days, right. Like Neiman Marcus, like they, you know, for me, it's just even funny thinking about like,
• 31:53
  And I just like look back at like the order and I'm like, I don't know why that took me like two weeks to fulfill. Like it just like that's something that we would do in a day.
• 32:03
  And not even in a day, right? Like, it's just something that now we're so set up to do these things. But you have to, you know, I didn't have like six people in our warehouse that were picking, packing, shipping all day. Like, I just had one person part time that was helping me. And I remember my dad and my mom, like, I feel so bad for them, although they like love to do this. Like,
• 32:24
  they would like come on to LA for a vacation. And I'd be like, okay, so just sit right here. We need to put labels on all these bottles and pack these boxes. And they would do it for me. And so it was just like a really, honestly, like super just had to, there was just a lot of elbow grease needed to like move things around because I just didn't have the scale and the people and the process. And now, you know, three years later,
• 32:54
  I'm still feeling those same things. Like we're really struggling on order volumes right now. Like we just had a huge spike in orders for holidays, which I just like didn't honestly anticipate, which in some ways it's nice because I,
• 33:08
  you know, you like being surprised to the upside, but you also care deeply about your customer and their experience and you don't want it to be negative. And it's like such a push and pull between those two. And so I'm already like feeling growing pains now. And we're thinking of we've got to move to fulfillment center and we've got to figure out how to scale and grow. So I would say that whatever people are feeling at,
• 33:33
  this stage, you know, if it's an earlier stage, like what I was experiencing at Neiman Marcus, or what I'm kind of going through now, it's like, those are all just, it's just a skill that you learn. And it's something that you
• 33:46
  just have to keep doing because I'm sure again, hopefully if I'm lucky enough, I'll have another pain point of growth and I'll have to figure out once again, how do we make this happen? And it's just pulling on that same, like, okay, like you just, you did it one time.
• 34:03
  Now we just have to honestly think super smart. Like, for example, when it was like Neiman Marcus days, I just need to think of like, how do I get a number? I need people. I need people to move this process along. Now it's like, but you could like stay all night and you could finish it. There's just, you just need like two days of really intense work to finish.
• 34:25
  Now it's like the problems that I have, like I can't just like throw people at it. I actually need to come up with efficiencies and processes on better ways to do it. Otherwise, like nothing happens. So it's interesting. It's like the problems actually get more complicated. It's just that maybe you've been around the block a little bit, so you're able to solve it a little bit better, or you might have people in your network that might be able to help you. But it's just a skill that you learn.
• 34:56
  And I imagine it's also probably like you need to solve it now because next week or next month or next quarter, you're going to face the same problem. A hundred percent. And it's going to happen again. So you want to sort it out now so you don't have to go through that, you know, hassle all over again when you get a bigger order or a more complicated order or whatever it is. You need your...
• 35:16
  procedures and processes all nutted out. I totally, I totally feel that one. That's, that's, I hear so many founders talk about the struggles of like that operational side and those growing pains. I know it's like, that was like a problem that I was like dying to have. I was like, Oh my God, I would love to have so many orders. And like, um, I'm not going to know what, I mean, I do feel like so blessed that it, it did exceed my expectation. I, I,
• 35:45
  When it happened to me, though, I wasn't as happy as I thought I would be because honestly, like you work so hard to get the customer. And the last thing you want to do is disappoint them. You know, like that was that's hard. And I just feel so bad because it's like I care so deeply about every person's interaction. But it's like when you only have.
• 36:07
  so many people, you can only get so many orders out. And you also can't reduce the quality of the experience because it's like, okay, great. I could get all these like untrained people to do a bunch of work, but then I'm going to have like wrong things going out and that's going to be worse. But what I found, the lesson here that I learned is like, we weren't perfect on like being, I mean, it took us weeks to get orders out from...
• 36:31
  our event that we had that was like the thing that caused all the spikes. But I sent out personal emails to like everyone that was affected like every week. And I think there were so many, what I realized is like people actually just loved the communication and they were totally understanding that like, okay, this is a founder reaching out. This person actually cares about my order. I get that they're going through like, you know, I get that, you know,
• 36:58
  This is what has happened to them. And they're working really hard. That makes me really happy. And I want to support this person. And I actually feel like, of course, there's going to be people here and there. But really, like everyone that I connected with was super, super understanding. So that's what I would say is like a good lesson learned. Just communicate.
• 37:17
  I mean, like 100%. Anytime I'm frustrated at a brand for a customer service experience, it could have been resolved or like avoided by just having communication. Clear communication, clear updates, whatever it might be. Because then you're like, yeah, cool. I understand. Like now I know what's going on. Like no big deal, whatever.
• 37:36
  But when you don't hear from someone or you're emailing and you don't hear back for weeks and you're like, what the heck? Like, what's going on? That's when people get frustrated and then they want to vent and tell their friends or speak on social media. And that's when, you know, you can have a huge nightmare on your hands. I know. So I think it's super important to always be honest, always be.
• 37:59
  Be there for open communication. There are things that are going to go wrong. I mean, shipping is crazy. Logistics is tough. Finding people to ship and pack orders is impossible. So yeah, of course, there's going to be problems. But just trying your best to communicate and do right by the customer. We really try to go above and beyond. And not perfect, but really...
• 38:23
  like aim to be. And I take a pretty active role in a lot of that. So it's like, if something has gone wrong, like I'll just take the time out of my day to be like, okay, maybe we didn't, you know, do the best, like maybe this package got lost somewhere, but like, let me just tell you how much I care and we'll ship you a new one. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
• 38:46
  100%. I'm conscious of time. So I want to switch to talk about specifically your marketing over the past few years and how you've kind of approached it. What you think when you look back in hindsight, is it that was working really well for you in acquiring new customers and finding people who connected with and loved your brand?
• 39:06
  So marketing has been really interesting. I think one, it starts off with creating a good brand. So kind of tying back to what we had said, right? Like really identifiable. If you are luxury positioning, well, your branding and your marketing should sort of take that into consideration. So really making sure that everything you're putting out really represents the brand, brand positioning.
• 39:33
  and ties really well into marketing. So number one, that I think that consistency that we had where the positioning match the voice was huge. And then I think honestly, the growth and the connection really came, I think, from the authenticity and the way that we share. I mean, I think we did see a lot of growth on social media
• 39:59
  We do get a lot of like organic searches as well on Google as a lot of our leads. So I think people are finding us and seeking us out. And I think the reason for that is that we, you know, I just think we're luxury positioning and the product itself really does live up and tie back. So it's like.
• 40:18
  The product is really good. The brand itself is like tying into the luxury positioning, the marketing and the void, like all of it is like coming together. But then I also do make a big effort on social to really sort of share authentically as a founder. And I think when people connect to someone that's behind the brand, as like awkward as it was for me to...
• 40:39
  put myself out there on Instagram reels or TikTok and do things that are a bit out of my comfort zone. They're truly authentic to me. And I think people really like that connection and they, they really feel like they want to support you and try it. And then when they try the product, it's like, whoa, the product really sort of speaks for itself and people, you know, buy it again and again. So I just think it's, it's like a combination, but I do think showing
• 41:10
  the brand growth. Yeah. You really need to take that leap and like lead, lead with, you know, your authentic self, but also have the confidence to show up every day, even when you feel really awkward or embarrassed. Like I still get that even though it's like inherently part of what I do. And it's, it's,
• 41:33
  Sadly, for people who don't like social media, it's the world that we live in now. Like people want to see the faces behind the brands they're buying. People want to know who they're buying from and like what they care about and what their, you know, outlook on the world is. And people connect with people over brands. So it's super important. I'm 100% with you there. What do you think is your most important piece of advice for entrepreneurs in the beauty industry coming into 2022? Yeah.
• 42:03
  Most important advice I would say is, I would say pinpointing or using what makes you unique as your superpower, because I feel like one of the big things that we're seeing in the
• 42:23
  very similar to one another. So number one is like, you've got to differentiate yourself and you yourself by virtue of being, you are unique to the world. You're the only person of you that exists. So by doing that one, you're just opening the door to making something that's authentic to you too. You're going to make it unique because you are unique. And three, I think it just gives you that personal connection.
• 42:47
  And so I think a lot of times what I see is people being like, I want to be like that brand or I like their pack. And it's okay to...
• 42:56
  to seek inspiration in some ways, or look at benchmarks, or do your research. But I think some of that can be distracting. And I think it's really super important to just lean into you, your authenticity, and have a point of view. Like, don't just, like, I see so many brands, like a mishmash of like, oh, it's the font of this brand and the color of this other brand and the product of another.
• 43:24
  And I just think you're not doing service to anyone if you're just recreating something that exists. And I think there's so much out there in terms of innovation that we should all just push ourselves a bit more to innovate, push the industry forward. And I think that will pay off pretty well. Such great advice. I love that. Thank you for sharing.
• 43:51
  At the end of every episode, we wrap up with a series of six quick questions, some of which we might have covered, some of which we might not have, but I ask them all the same. So question number one is, what's your why? Why are you doing what you're doing?
• 44:07
  Why am I doing what I'm doing? I mean, it sounds like a very simple question, but I'm doing what I'm doing because I truly feel that it's in my blood. And I think that being in business and starting this company is so much of what my my dad has has taught me and instilled in me. And so I just feel like it's sort of my mission in a way to kind of follow his footsteps.
• 44:33
  Oh, I love that. That's so cute. Question number two is what's been the number one marketing moment that's made the business pop? Oh, my God. Well, I just immediately thought about Hayley Bieber sharing our cream cleanser on her YouTube channel, like as a super surprise. It was like her first post. Oh, my God. I know she used it in her AM routine. I'm like, what this is? Nuts.
• 45:00
  Oh, my God. And you didn't know she was going to do that? I didn't know. I will say, though, to like... That is Christmas there. It was Christmas. It was like Christmas and Hanukkah and the volley in one. It was amazing. Holy moly. So that was really good. But, you know, I just have to preface all of that with like...
• 45:22
  If you're a small brand, like, I mean, I'm a small brand too, but it's like one, one moment does not make you. And I like, I'm very grateful for this Haley Bieber moment. And we've had so many moments like that, that are super exciting and revolutionary, but it's like, if you have a bad product or like, you just have to be doing everything. Like, that's not just like, you don't get this one moment and then you just like sit back and relax forever. Like it's, it's awesome that these things happen and they've,
• 45:52
  propel you and inspire you to continue to push. But if that hasn't happened for someone yet, like that's okay. It doesn't need to happen. It's actually really all the other work that probably is overall more impactful over time.
• 46:08
  Yeah, the consistency and the compound effect of one tiny step after the other, every single day, every year. Absolutely. Question number three is where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you reading or listening to at the moment that's a great resource? Well, I do love NPR, How I Built This, which I'm sure everyone listening also loves that as well. In addition to that. But I would say...
• 46:35
  My friend circle is honestly what I would do. And I think a big part of joining a new industry, like for me, the beauty industry was really new. A lot of that was creating and building a network and doing it super authentically. It wasn't like, oh, I'm trying to be friends with so-and-so so that I can get this piece of information.
• 46:57
  It's never like that. Sometimes you're helping people. Sometimes people help you. But building a genuine network of people that are smarter than you, they might know something more than you do. They inspire you. They might be just kind souls, you know, whatever their role is.
• 47:13
  You may not know that initially, but I do think building a network of friends mutually, where you share that mutual passion for the industry and you trust their opinion, I think is super key and important. So I do feel like I get smarter with my friends.
• 47:33
  I love that. I do too. Okay. We're on the same page. We're on the same page. Yes. Question number four is how do you win the day? What are your AM or PM rituals and habits that keep you feeling happy and successful and motivated?
• 47:49
  Oh my God. Winning the day is like my vibes. So I like winning the day early on, like any, I truly feel like, and I think there is a science to this. Like if you accomplish something, even as simple as making your bed, which I never do, I'll be honest.
• 48:05
  or what I do is also like working out, you are just like set with this like sense of accomplishment already. And when you like do something early on that like feels really good for you early in the morning, you're just setting yourself up for a really super positive day. And I think that that truly does help
• 48:25
  set the stage for like an incredible rest of the day because I felt like I've won the morning. I felt like, wow, I've already so accomplished. So the ways that I do that, number one, um, is honestly mostly working out. And also I do drop my kids off to school in the morning, a few days a week. And that also feels really nice because, you know, you just get to like spend a bit of time,
• 48:50
  with the kids and then I'll take a call on the way back but it just feels nice to have like a little bit of family time in the morning before starting the craziness but I love that I love winning the day that's like my the thing that I say to myself me too I love to win the day
• 49:08
  Question number five is if you were given $1,000 of no strings attached grant money, where would you spend that in the business? And it's kind of to highlight the most important spend of a dollar because I know it's not a lot of money.
• 49:20
  Okay, so not, I was going to say Desai Foundation because we partner with them to give back and we do a percentage of proceeds. But if I were to think about outside of something charitable and if it's something that's like my business, what would I spend a thousand dollars on? I mean, if I'm saying honestly right now in terms of what I need,
• 49:41
  It's on images. I literally need beautiful product images and content. I would spend it on content. And I think content is how people discover you. And if you can share the right content, I think goes a long way.
• 49:59
  Mm hmm. One hundred percent. So true. So important at this time, especially with, you know, everything changing and the paid performance landscape. It's like content now that hooks people in and you've got to you've got to be there. Just like showing up on Instagram. You've got to be out there putting that content and finding people that way.
• 50:19
  So I will say you touched upon paid content. So we did launch paid content, of course, like in a time where people are seeing it not be as profitable as prior. And we launched a number of different ads and the ads that perform the best were all the ones where I'm talking. And it's like a before and after kind of vibe. And it's really just like my authentic founder story and things that legitimately happened to me. Yeah.
• 50:46
  and why I created the product. And so that's just something that I would put out there. It's like, yes, there might be decreased, like we're just inundated with too much information. But I think that just encourages all of us to just put the right information out there to really share that. That's just, you know, even seconds, the importance of creating authentic, good content and connecting with your customer in a very genuine way. And that's like, still works.
• 51:15
  Yeah, absolutely. And question number six, last question is, how do you deal with failure? What's your mindset and approach when things don't go to plan? I definitely try to think about how to fix the problem. There are a lot of times where
• 51:37
  I mean, I think I experience failure all the time, whether it's in the form of rejection, whether it's the form of, you know, messing something up and doing something wrong, making the wrong decision. But I don't know. I'm going to be honest. Like I just of course, like we have some part of us that feels wrong.
• 51:58
  bad about that or upset or sad or whatever that emotion is. But I think one, just knowing that whatever that was, wasn't for you in that moment, I think is like a key, right? Like, okay, so maybe ex-retailer doesn't want to bring me on. Okay. Well, that's tough news, but maybe it's not the right time. And maybe if I were to be there, maybe it wouldn't have gone well. I don't know. It's
• 52:28
  knowing that you can revisit that opportunity and know that no is not never, I think sometimes keeps me going because I did experience in my history, many things that were a no ultimately became a yes. Not that it was like, and then there's some things that were a no and are still a no. And I guess that's okay. And there's some things that were a yes that I was like, oh man, I didn't know that this experience would be this way. And I wouldn't have wished for this
• 52:58
  Don't worry if you really want it. No is not never. So you could still get it. If it's a no, maybe it's not right for you and maybe you need to improve and that's OK, too. Maybe you need to take a lesson and learn, hey, what's the feedback instead of being so down about that opportunity? What's the feedback? How can I improve and do better next time and use this as a growth opportunity? I just think you have to kind of separate the mental.
• 53:25
  blow a bit from using it as an opportunity. And so I think that's kind of key, but of course, easier said than done, but it's, again, it's a skill. So the more you see it and the more you thrive from those experiences, you realize like, all right, it's okay. It's another, it's another rejection that might, might work out.
• 53:46
  Might work out in another way. There might be a silver lining. There always is. Michelle, this was so, so cool. I'm so grateful to have had you on the show to share your story and your learnings and what you're building. And I'm excited to see what happens next. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. And I feel like you just provide so many incredible nuggets of insight. And I'm just really grateful to be your guest today. Oh, thank you so much.
• 54:19
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 54:43
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 55:06
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 55:23
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 55:47
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 56:10
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.