Latest / Go Long Podcast / How Andrew Brandt makes all of us “Smarter About Sports”

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How Andrew Brandt makes all of us “Smarter About Sports” · Go Long Podcast

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on, everyone?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Man, what a pleasure to welcome on a familiar face for not just us here at Golong,
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  SPEAKER_01: but the entire sports world.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Andrew,
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  SPEAKER_01: you've definitely been so generous with your time and just sharing your experiences
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  SPEAKER_01: and your knowledge with everybody has made everybody smarter about sports,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is why I love the title of your new book.
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  SPEAKER_01: There it is,
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  SPEAKER_01: Smarter About Sports,
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  SPEAKER_01: My Life, Navigating Athletes, Agents, Media, and the Business of the NFL.
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  SPEAKER_01: Andrew Brand, of course, VP with the Green Bay Packers from 1999 to 2008.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: All of your amazing work at ESPN.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I just I love what you're doing today.
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  SPEAKER_01: You got into it on our happy hour podcast a few years ago.
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  SPEAKER_01: But now you're helping the next generation at Villanova as the executive director of
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  SPEAKER_01: the Sports Law Center.
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  SPEAKER_01: Is that right, Andrew?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great to be with you, Tyler.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've known you for a long time.
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  SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed working with you and It's been,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think,
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  SPEAKER_00: really since I left the Packers some 16 years ago,
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  SPEAKER_00: I've just tried to do this,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: and this meaning make people smarter about sports through TV, radio,
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  SPEAKER_00: podcasts,
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  SPEAKER_00: all my writing first for National Football Post, then for Sports Illustrated.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, then for ESPN, then for Sports Illustrated.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now I do the Sunday 7 newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the podcast and all the appearances I do, and I'll talk, and of course, students.
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  SPEAKER_00: I've probably taught a thousand students over the years.
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  SPEAKER_00: And when I started thinking about a title for the book,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm trying to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to do that in like 20 different ways in my life now.
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  SPEAKER_00: And let's just sum it up there with Smarter About Sports.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'll get right to it, Tyler.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the one thing I thought I could do is through stories, That only I can tell.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are stories that only I can tell.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there are hundreds of them, literally.
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  SPEAKER_00: There's more than a hundred stories in the book.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's the way I teach in front of my classes.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's the way I lecture when I talk to corporations or whatever I talk to.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's stories.
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  SPEAKER_00: I've found in life that what resonates more than anything in terms of learning is a story.
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  SPEAKER_00: Not just standing up there and telling theory,
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  SPEAKER_00: not just saying this is the way you should do something.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like through stories.
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  SPEAKER_00: So that's what the book is through my entire life.
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  SPEAKER_00: And as you've seen,
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  SPEAKER_00: like so many chapters, I know a lot of people want to talk about the Packers.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's just part of it.
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  SPEAKER_00: In the way I've sort of lived my life through these different angles in sports.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I hope it's instructive and informative and certainly entertaining
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  SPEAKER_00: for anyone interested in the business of sports,
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  SPEAKER_00: the law of sports,
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  SPEAKER_00: the sociology of sports, sports policy, and of course, working in sports.
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  SPEAKER_00: I hope it's great for everyone.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love that approach, Andrew, because it's visual.
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  SPEAKER_01: We can picture you in these situations.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's easy today when a contract goes down or somebody gets suspended
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  SPEAKER_01: or something happens in pro football and you got chat GPT,
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  SPEAKER_01: you have Google AI and bada bing, bada boom.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we think we know everything.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that 1.2 seconds it takes for something to get spit out or that's,
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  SPEAKER_01: that's not going to tell you anything.
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  SPEAKER_01: You lived it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you were,
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  SPEAKER_01: you were at the negotiating table,
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  SPEAKER_01: literally with some of the biggest names in sports.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, you had to roll up your sleeves at times.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's where you learn how this stuff really goes down, isn't it?
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  SPEAKER_01: It's not just being a self-anointed expert on the subject,
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  SPEAKER_01: which there are plenty of those in NFL media today.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Tyler,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: when I started, like,
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  SPEAKER_00: tweeting,
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  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, when I first left the Packers, all of a sudden people are like, wow.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, everyone knows this.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm finding out, no, no one knows this.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the this is hard to explain right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: but the this is like things that really go on in the inner workings of sports
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  SPEAKER_00: that I would try to tweet about or write about when I first started doing media.
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  SPEAKER_00: And people are like, I didn't know that.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you didn't?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't even know, like, you didn't know that these NFL contracts aren't guaranteed.
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  SPEAKER_00: You didn't know that you can cut a player and never owe him any money,
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  SPEAKER_00: like even a veteran after three years of a contract.
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  SPEAKER_00: So these are little things that sort of along the way.
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  SPEAKER_00: And when I put this book out,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think I was talking to Trey Wingo or Jim Rome or somebody and they go, Andrew,
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  SPEAKER_00: do you know that You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the magnitude of people you've been around your whole life,
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  SPEAKER_00: like no one gets to be around this sort of panoply of football, basketball, hockey.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all this and people in the business and Gary Vee spending two years with him.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just do
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  SPEAKER_00: it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And my editor's like, what are you thinking when you're with David Falk and Michael Jordan?
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  SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking when you're hanging out with Gary Vaynerchuk?
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  SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking with Brett and Aaron?
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm not thinking.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm just doing.
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  SPEAKER_00: And sort of my life advice at the end of the book is like, just do.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, don't talk about it.
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  SPEAKER_00: Don't ruminate about it.
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  SPEAKER_00: Just do.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sort of life is like mood follows action.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the people that get stuck,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, end up in whatever, low levels of depression because they just can't move.
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  SPEAKER_00: So just everything to me is onward.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I talk about that throughout the book.
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  SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to start that, Andrew?
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  SPEAKER_01: Like what really inspired you to dive into this world?
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  SPEAKER_01: I know you've kind of been all over the place, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: We got into it on the happy hour, you know, across the Atlantic as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: But where would you kind of point to as point A, okay,
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  SPEAKER_01: I love sports,
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  SPEAKER_01: I want to be involved with sports, and I want to go this different route.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: I guess early on,
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  SPEAKER_00: I was a big sports fan growing up in D.C.,
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  SPEAKER_00: two teams that have different names right now.
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  SPEAKER_00: One was the Redskins in football,
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  SPEAKER_00: and one was the Bullets in basketball, season tickets, and just a huge sports fan.
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  SPEAKER_00: Went to Stanford,
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  SPEAKER_00: came back to law school in my hometown of Washington,
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  SPEAKER_00: D.C., And luckily for me, there was this firm down the road called ProServe.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's no longer, but they're represented athletes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I always sort of went through life like,
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  SPEAKER_00: is there,
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  SPEAKER_00: as a young kid even,
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  SPEAKER_00: like, would there be a way to sort of marry this love of sports?
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm never going to be a pro athlete with, like, a law degree or business, anything.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the agent world was not that established then.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there were some agents, but it was like, maybe.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I go over to this firm and I was a tennis player and they ran tennis tournaments.
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  SPEAKER_00: And more importantly,
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  SPEAKER_00: I was a ball boy for the big Washington,
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  SPEAKER_00: D.C. tennis tournament every summer that they ran.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, yeah, OK, kid, you know, come on in, do some stuff for us.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that led to sort of an unpaid internship.
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  SPEAKER_00: And here I go.
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  SPEAKER_00: And after law school, finally got the job.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I I tell people that I chose a sports agent life over being a quote unquote real lawyer.
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  SPEAKER_00: And even as a young kid,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: I got to think about this because everyone's like,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah, you want to hang out with athletes, not stuffy lawyers.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I get that.
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  SPEAKER_00: But for anyone thinking about it,
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  SPEAKER_00: I gave up a tremendous amount of money and a tremendous amount of security and
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  SPEAKER_00: a life that would be stable in a law firm.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I went the sports route and I did because of this passion for sports.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I learned quickly,
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  SPEAKER_00: as I tell throughout the book,
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the glamour of working with high-profile athletes,
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  SPEAKER_00: that wears off in about two weeks.
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  SPEAKER_00: And now you're just working for clients.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you're,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: being an agent,
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  SPEAKER_00: and that's a theme of the book,
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  SPEAKER_00: first sort of chapter of my career,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, beyond Barcelona, all being about agent work.
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  SPEAKER_00: And again, you're working for people that you think it's the player, but it's often...
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  SPEAKER_00: The wife,
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  SPEAKER_00: the girlfriend,
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  SPEAKER_00: the wife and girlfriend,
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  SPEAKER_00: the father,
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  SPEAKER_00: the cousin,
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  SPEAKER_00: the AAU coach, the friend, the half brother, the half sister, the half step brother.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you take on what I call the herd.
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  SPEAKER_00: And being an agent is a tough life because you're not just beholden to the client.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're beholden to all these people that are around him and want you to sort
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  SPEAKER_00: of answer the questions.
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  SPEAKER_00: And many times I had to be the no guy, which is like, no, no, usually about money.
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  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes about other things.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's what the client is paying you to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: I learned working at the foot of David Falk,
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  SPEAKER_00: the super NBA super agent with Michael Jordan,
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  SPEAKER_00: Patrick Ewing, all these great clients.
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  SPEAKER_00: That was a learning experience for me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I learned I got to be my own person.
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  SPEAKER_00: I can't do the style of David who is a very relentless negotiator and use
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  SPEAKER_00: the leverage of Michael in ways that I could never do.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't have the ego for that.
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  SPEAKER_00: I learned what not to do and also what to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sort of the beginning of my career as an agent,
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  SPEAKER_00: I was very blessed to be around superstars in that world.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Andrew, you just kind of like almost glossed over two pivotal moments in your life,
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  SPEAKER_01: too, where you truly did bet on yourself.
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  SPEAKER_01: An unpaid internship.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that alone first,
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  SPEAKER_01: where I think a lot of kids today,
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  SPEAKER_01: now I'm going to sound like a middle-aged man,
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  SPEAKER_01: they would hear unpaid internship and Give you the middle finger
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  SPEAKER_01: and go somewhere else.
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  SPEAKER_01: I imagine that was a pivotal moment to pour yourself into something
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  SPEAKER_01: and know you're investing in yourself and then get into that decision to go
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  SPEAKER_01: the sports route where, yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: you can have a cushy job and make God knows how much money and you can see in
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  SPEAKER_01: the future clearly where you're going to be,
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  SPEAKER_01: how much you're going to make,
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  SPEAKER_01: a sense of security, but you bet on yourself at that point too.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then, you know, You look for opportunity.
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  SPEAKER_00: I have this phrase in the book was a Stanford professor said it to me like allow
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  SPEAKER_00: in your life for serendipity.
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  SPEAKER_00: And like David Fox so invests in the NBA and I was representing NBA players,
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  SPEAKER_00: including the first client I had,
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  SPEAKER_00: the only client I could ever look down upon named Muggsy Bogues.
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  SPEAKER_00: He was like five foot three.
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  SPEAKER_00: He was my first client in basketball.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hang on.
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  SPEAKER_00: You got Muggsy's?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's Muggsy.
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  SPEAKER_00: He's right in the shot.
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  SPEAKER_01: Little did you know, my kids met him last summer.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was a great day.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, man.
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  SPEAKER_00: 12th pick overall with the Washington Bullets.
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  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I saw these football players, Ty.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I saw NFL players, no one anyone had ever heard of.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, no one's paying attention to them.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'll do it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'll do it because look at me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I never played football, but I'm like, I love football.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'll do it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that began my career as a football agent only because I saw opportunity at a young age.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
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  SPEAKER_00: I could be in this NBA and learn from David,
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  SPEAKER_00: of course, but no one's taking care of those guys.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I went over there and in seven years, I went from three to five to 10 to 15 NFL players.
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  SPEAKER_00: So there is a little serendipity.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then I'm doing a contract with the Minnesota Vikings,
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  SPEAKER_00: and the general manager at the time named Mike Lynn kind of looks me up and down
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  SPEAKER_00: after the negotiations and says, hey, Andrew, you speak Barcelonan?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I said, what is that?
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  SPEAKER_00: He said, like Spanish.
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  SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
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  SPEAKER_00: that led to him offering me the first general manager job of the Barcelona Dragons
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  SPEAKER_00: of the NFL World League.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I, again, young, single, allow for serendipity.
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  SPEAKER_01: I said, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I left the agent side, the player side.
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  SPEAKER_00: For the first time in my career, there would be another time going to the Packers.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, why not?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
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  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm in Barcelona where they're cheering at the wrong times and they're doing
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: the wave the entire game long and they have no understanding.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's the hardest thing I ever did, Ty.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So at age 29, I'm a GM trying to sell tickets where no one understands the game.
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  SPEAKER_00: They cheered.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, they do the Ole song the whole game long.
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  SPEAKER_00: Our first touchdown,
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  SPEAKER_00: they have polite golf applause and our kicker kicks the extra point
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  SPEAKER_00: and they go nuts.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, where are we?
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  SPEAKER_00: And that steeled me for a life that was never as hard as that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Working for the Green Bay Packers compared to that, you know, like that was a great experience.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then I'm back to the agent business.
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  SPEAKER_00: I got a guy named Ricky Williams, the best client ever had, Heisman Trophy.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Three months later, he fires me for Master P.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, who's Master P?
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  SPEAKER_00: He says, a rapper.
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  SPEAKER_00: I said, what's going on?
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  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I don't like the company you're with.
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  SPEAKER_00: I like you.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: You want to work for Master P?
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, P?
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  SPEAKER_00: Me?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: He said, yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And again, serendipity.
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  SPEAKER_00: The exact same time, Ty, the exact week, like a day later, the Green Bay Packers are calling me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had some Packers over the years.
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  SPEAKER_00: No one great.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had third string quarterback at the time, Matt Hasselbeck.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, how'd you like to switch sides?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, what?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: They said, I said, you talked to 100 agents.
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  SPEAKER_00: Why me?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
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  SPEAKER_00: They said, Ron Wolf said, listen, Hasselbeck and these guys really like you.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You have a nice way of dealing with people.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know we weigh around these contracts.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we want to get more agent friendly.
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  SPEAKER_00: What better way to hire an agent?
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  SPEAKER_00: And then it's talking to my wife.
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  SPEAKER_00: We're both East Coast people.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I decided to leave the agent business.
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  SPEAKER_00: And Ricky was obviously a determining factor, but You know, I think it was time.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had a young family.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was time to get off that train and a little more secure life,
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  SPEAKER_00: albeit in a place we'd never, ever considered living.
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  SPEAKER_00: We moved to Green Bay, Wisconsin.
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  SPEAKER_00: And obviously of my 16 chapters in the book,
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  SPEAKER_00: I have four on my life in Green Bay,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: which was, again,
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  SPEAKER_00: as I call it in the first words I talk about Green Bay,
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  SPEAKER_00: The best story in sports,
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  SPEAKER_00: 100,000 people, a city thriving, not just competing, but thriving in the NFL.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone out there can think about a city near them with 100,000 people.
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  SPEAKER_00: Imagine having an NFL team, and I talk all about that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a ton of Packer fans who listen.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't even have to be a Packer fan.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, it's truly one of the best stories in sports.
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  SPEAKER_01: To live that up close, what does that look like?
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  SPEAKER_01: Because you hear how they're publicly owned,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: and There's no owner to report to,
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  SPEAKER_01: but day to day,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: month to month,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: when you're living there,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was out there at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel for five years.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing it to an extent, but I'm still on the outside.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not in the building every day.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: What makes it different there than really any professional sports team to you, Andrew?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I didn't grow up with a history of it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I get out there and I'm like,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: first of all, there's this, it was just the bowl before our renovation.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like a high school stadium.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is where the ice ball, this is like, what?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then everyone can talk about this where you're driving down
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: a residential neighborhood and there's Lambeau Field, like out of nowhere.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you sort of realize, oh, this is a little different.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm looking out my window first weeks and I'm like,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: wait a minute, these people are driving up.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And actually genuflecting to the building.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's something different here.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I, like our GM, like our coach, had tremendous autonomy.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if I did a $5 million contract or a $50 million contract,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: there's no one up there somewhere saying, hey, great job, bad job, Andrew.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was trusted to do that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just like our personnel was trusted on the player side or coaching on
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: the coaching side, no owner.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we had a board of directors,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: we had an executive committee,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: but they were pretty rubber stamping most of what went on on the football side.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: They got involved on the business side, pro shop, concessions, parking, etc.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't awed by it.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciated the magnitude of it, the vast Packer nation.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to operate, you know, what would the shareholders want?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think working for the Packers is like working for a public trust.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, this is important to people.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I never lost sight of that.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: the unique things about living in Green Bay,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: where I'm pumping gas and someone's like,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: hey, how's that Donald Driver contract going?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: I tell the story of trying to make a trade and my phone went out and I go
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: to this ranger station.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the middle of the park.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I said, hey, I got to make a trade.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm with the Green Bay Packers.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: He looks at me like, who the F are you?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I finally go right up to him.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually in my swim shorts and I look at him and I say, listen,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: we're trading David Bowens to the Buffalo Bills, but I got to do it right now.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I knew I had him, Ty, when he looks at me and he goes, we're trading Bowens?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, yes, if you let me use your phone.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we trading Bowens?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's good.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I said, listen, Let me do it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I come back the next day, he's got the paper and I sign it about the trade.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: But this is Green Bay.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was truly unique.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I detail in the book,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to be very vulnerable too,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: because I think the things that we sort of loved in our early time in Green Bay
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: kind
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: of pushed us out.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't go out of my house after a while.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And not be asked about the Packers.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just socially.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's so insular with that team.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen a community wrap itself around a team.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Pro, college, high school.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And nothing's wrong with that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: People are nice.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: People are nice.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it just, I want a little more diversity for my family, but also for my life.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for my life.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to do more.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I had done all the contracts.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had done all the cap management.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd done Brett's hundred plus million dollar contract.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd done A.J.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hawk's one of the biggest rookie contracts.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'd done all the small contracts.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: The cap's in good shape.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, like this is enough.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Packer, a lot of people I know in the NFL are lifers and that's fine.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's for them.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: This was never going to be a life for me.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was a chapter and actually four chapters of the book.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But a special place,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: and obviously I talk about the highlights everyone wants to talk about with Brett
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: and Aaron and everything else as well.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that's such a perfect way to put it, Andrew,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: because it's win or lose, you can just feel the community take on the result.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I still remember when they lost to San Francisco.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say it was the 2013 season.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it was frigid at Lambeau Field, the wild card game.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the next day, it was even colder.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how they would have played a football game.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was negative 30, no wind chill, negative 50-something with the wind chill.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And a depression just sets in when they lose in the playoffs.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's cold.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there's really nothing else to kind of distract you from that result.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be extreme both ways to be wrapped up into it.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Then intensely,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: but man,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: like you kind of alluded to,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: you were around for, I mean,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Brett Favre and some magical moments there and then transitioning to Aaron Rodgers.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you write about this in the book.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: You were close to both.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're in a really tough position there as they're making this move to Aaron Rodgers.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, start with Favre.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: What was that relationship like?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get to know him?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, I mean,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: like that $100 million contract that had to have been a seminal moment
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: in your career as well.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm going to say this to you.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: This may disappoint readers, but I am extremely positive about both those men.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Brett was the biggest thing in sports.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: this was pre-social media,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: but he was Mahomes, he was Brady, he was Michael Jordan when I got there.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: The lines when we pulled into hotels just to get a glimpse of him.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And just a couple things to note that you never read about.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Brett...
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Was a prisoner of the hotel when we traveled.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: He couldn't go out.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: He was too big.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: But he loved the production meetings.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So for people who don't know, it's CBS, NBC, Fox, ESPN.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: The day before the game,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: they sit with the visiting team and they request the head coach,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: they request another player, and they always requested Brett.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And Brett always wanted to go last because he just loved talking ball.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: With Troy Eggman, with Chris Collinsworth, with Matt Millen, and especially John Madden.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember so many times we'd get together for a 7.30 or 8 o'clock meeting on
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: a Saturday night or a Sunday night, and everyone's like, where's Brad?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where's Brad?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he's still talking ball with Madden or Collinsworth or Phil Simms.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's just, he loved it.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he's just that, he was a coach's kid.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of coach's kid, his, You know, I remember that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget that day.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in Oakland.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're on Sunday.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: We get the day off.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: We have a Monday night game.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And his agent, Buss, who I talk to all the time, is like, where's Brett?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Buss is usually a jovial guy.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: He called in a panic.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Where's Brett?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was day off.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: He says, Irv died.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And Irv was not only Brett's dad,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: but well-known around the team, kind of a fixture in the locker room.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, long story short, we finally found him where else on the golf course was.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have his phone.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: He never had his phone,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: but we got Doug Peterson on the phone and Deanna told Doug,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Doug passed the phone to Brett and he came back and Ty, I'll never forget it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: We caught him right in the lobby and he said,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: listen, he's in tears, but he said, before you go on, I'm going to play.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to play tomorrow night.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was his first words.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Then we bring him in front of the team.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: He said that about his dad wanted to play and there wasn't a dry eye in that house.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: as everyone knows,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: the magical game against Oakland that night,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: that Monday night where the balls fell out of the sky.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went to Mississippi for the funeral, a few of us, and that was a different breath.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this was no superstar.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't speak, but He was a friend.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: He was a neighbor.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: He was a son.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: He was a community member.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's just Brad.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just the guy in Brad, Brad in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: That taught me a lot.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: sort of getting to know him as things were going late in his career about,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's going to end and,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: and then sort of being with him as he was retiring, but then he wanted to come back.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say this, you know, One thing I try to point out in the book is that these are people.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes in sports, we just think they're automatons.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're people.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we forget about drafting,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've told the story many times about drafting Aaron and he's the only one on
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: the board that we had a first round grade on and combustion in the room.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Should we take him?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Should we go to our second round grades, et cetera.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: But everyone turned away.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's three years,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: three years where myself and John Schneider, Reggie McKenzie, we're managing this.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this is Brett and Aaron.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Nowhere in life would you put a country Mississippi guy in a room
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: with Northern California cool for five hours a day, nowhere.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And Brett's calling me and his agent's calling me all the time like, hey, Andrew,
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: do you know what it's like sitting in a room and sit
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: with your replacement every day?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's no fun.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And Aaron's camp is calling, Andrew, he's never going to retire.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we doing?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I just try to be professional and patient and tactful and like, yes, I get it.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is hard.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: But listen, there's going to be a change.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: We just don't know when.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the hardest part.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: See, again, the whole world turns away.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, Brett's got a backup and Aaron.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then all these people like Aaron's never going to play.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, aren't you going to get like a Kerry Collins, kind of a stopgap Jeff Garcia?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I said, no, no, no.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to Aaron.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And people couldn't believe us.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're going to a rookie or he wasn't a rookie by then.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, yes, yes.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: This was not like all the other Packer quarterbacks,
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: including my former client, Matt Hasselbeck, where they were picked to be traded.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: This was a real guy.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And You know, the transition, of course, the messy divorce.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, I was close to both sides and it was tough.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And again, back to Brett.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: He called, Bus called me that June 20th, 2008.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: He had just gotten out of Mike McCarthy's office and he was crying.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, what's up, Bus?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was hiking on the mountain somewhere.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, McCarthy just told us three words.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: We've moved on.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine the face of a franchise for 16 years hearing that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what you learn working in sports.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's phenomenal.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember being an intern that summer in 08 for the Shawano Leader and Packer Report.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a sophomore in college, just living out of a hotel out there.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what a baptism by fire to cover the NFL.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was madness that summer.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: My naivety, I'm thinking, of course.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking like Brett was thinking.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: He wants to play.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: He should play.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the accomplishments.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: You just were one throw from the Super Bowl.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a team that went 13-3.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: The conviction that the Packers showed in that moment.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we heard it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: You should have heard my voicemail.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was nothing like.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: What was the voicemail?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Ted Thompson's and so many.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was 95% Brett.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody couldn't believe it.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I told Aaron, just keep his head down.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Aaron became a favorite of ours pretty soon after he came in.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was just a wry sense of humor,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: smart off the charts, physical skills, amazingly spinning the ball.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we loved Brett and we loved Aaron.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what happens in sports sometimes.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an either or.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: how do we make this transition as gracefully as we can And now they're trying
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: to get Brett to be an ambassador, but he wanted to play.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, that pissed him off, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Trade him to the Jets.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, and then again, I am positive about both those because I saw their impact.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is what sports can do.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I called it the afterglow.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like when Brett or Aaron were brought over to children,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: especially developmentally disabled children or people in disabled,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't perfunctory for either of them.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Either of them, they spent time.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I always called it the afterglow.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when Brett walked away or Aaron walked away, my eyes would focus on the family.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that beaming, that beaming, like, I don't know what else can do that.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: A sports superstar like those two.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they were both great at it, like great, never feeling like it was something they had to do.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you appreciate those things when you're around people like that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Both unbelievably charismatic in their own ways too.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, and both very demonstrative on the field in their own ways where Brett's going
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: to tackle you in the end zone and Aaron,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: we'll let you know if you screw up on the field,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: but they, they, they wear their emotions on their sleeves.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Ty,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of people are,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: are like, well,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: see what,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: what they're spewing out of their mouth is this part of their careers and lives.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, listen, I don't know them the way I knew them then.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've stayed in touch with Brett,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've stayed in touch with Aaron,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm not here to talk about what they're talking about politically
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: or anything else.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here to talk about what I knew and saw in this developmental time
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: in both my career, Aaron's career, at the end of Brett's career.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And again, no one really can talk about that in the way that I can, and I try to be very honest.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what's so great about your book, too.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: You do kind of bring it full circle to where Aaron may,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: toward the end of those Packer years, maybe didn't understand how good he had it.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: The grass isn't always a greener.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot how you worded it, but he's definitely living that reality.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, lo and behold,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: he's come full circle with Mike McCarthy there in Pittsburgh,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: which I never would have.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it should have been a surprise when Brian Gutekunst was ready.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: To move on,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: but he was surprised that he kind of wanted something on the other side where he's
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: a little more appreciated.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Can you glean anything on what it's like behind the scenes there?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Cause you,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: the mechanisms and maybe what would have ticked him off with how things are run
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: or I guess,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of Packer fans are trying
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: to figure out how could he not have seen this coming?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think, um, you know, Brian is a disciple of Ted and, and, you know, Ted is disciple of Ron.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing that people have to understand about the Packers, it's football.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what makes it so different than any other team.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this is, I detail why my job was so different than my colleagues at every other team.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's all football.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, the money's not going to some yacht.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: The money's not going to some vacation spot, the kids' houses.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it's all back into the team.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And having said that, you get guys like Ted or Brian Gutekunst It's all scouting.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're in their element in a dark room looking at players on the screen.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they're not the most warm and fuzzy,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: but that's, I mean,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ted relied on John Schneider, myself,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know, just sort of massage things with agents, massage things with players.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't his forte.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think Brian's a little more personable than Ted was,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: but Yeah, I guess Aaron could say, hey, these guys aren't warm and fuzzy.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they're scouts.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they do.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to make those hard decisions.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And his area of grievances at press conference,
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: he's rallying off those players that they let go.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think Tom Silverstein pointed it out to Aaron in the moment.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Aaron, Ted was right in a lot of those cases.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to make the hard decision.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's so amazing is, obviously, I was long gone by then, but...
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was 15 years to the day they chose Jordan Love.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I've said this,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: like there's no team in the NFL except the Packers that even has a quarterback sit
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: for one year.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think Pat Mahomes sat one year behind, but he played at the end of the year.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like three years.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like imagine that.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: We'd be surprised if Mendoza sits for three months.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Three years is just an amazing stat.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I put a stake in the ground.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's never going to happen again, unless it's the Packers.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right, because when you don't have an owner kind of breathing down your neck,
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: forcing this to happen, that's a real thing.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can make these prudent, patient decisions.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so proud to have been part of one of those because we – We were patient.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And Ted, I mean, me a little bit, but Ted was in the face of all the things I talked about.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how dare you do this?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just stood forthright.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, Aaron turned out pretty good.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And Jordan too, Jordan too.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Ted Thompson, Brian Kutigans both to
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: make that, it wasn't easy.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember the shareholders meeting that summer too,
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: like fans going right up to Ted with the petitions.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, booed him relentlessly.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: It had to have taken such a toll on him.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's so stoic.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he would never bleed in public.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: He'd never know.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, just a few years ago, Aaron Rodgers kind of puts it out there.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I want the GM fired to return.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then he said what he said just a few weeks ago.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: But that's kind of why GMs are GMs.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Coaches are coaches.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Players play.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's all these variables and all these moving parts to put together
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: a winning football team.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it's what makes football a beautiful thing.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and since I've left, I've never really wanted to be back in a team.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about a couple, you know, when Al Davis called me.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And just, again, for me, it was a chapter of my life.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was enjoyable and, you know, unique, especially working for the Packers.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I was on to other things.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was time for me to move on to other things.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And when I went back to Green Bay for the first time,
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I remember seeing all my friends on the team.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, yeah, we're surprised you stayed as long as you did.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you got a lot.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like a four or five year shelf life for most people.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, even like Ron, my mentor, Juan Wolf, people think he was there a long time.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was there nine years.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nine.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Mike Holmgren, seven years.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know,
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: all these great people have come through Green Bay,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: but they don't stay that long because, you know, people are moving around.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, truly unique.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: All of us were in this fishbowl.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: All of us came from somewhere else.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a truly unique place to live where,
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about being a fish out of water and my first banquet,
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know, I go to team banquet.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Supper club, not a restaurant.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: The supper clubs in Wisconsin.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a huge glass in front of me of whole milk.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, milk?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I take a sip.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Here comes a guy pouring up, you know, filling up the milk.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's different.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are things I, you know, I've never used to something like that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Ron takes me out to lunch at some sandwich place, puts down $5.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, it's a nice, I guess, decent tip.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: She comes back with change for two sandwiches and a Coke.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, this is a little different, this place.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I have nothing but warm feelings about the people, the team, the city and the region.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So great.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Andrew, this is amazing.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can't thank you enough for taking some time.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody out there, please listen and watch.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Smarter About Sports, Andrew Brandt.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm reading it now.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's phenomenal.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: We are just scratching the surface on your stories.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: The Ricky Williams stuff, Master P, all of that.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I could listen to those stories forever.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: So do yourself a favor out there and make sure you buy a copy today.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm guessing anywhere.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Amazon, Barnes & Noble.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to send folks anywhere in particular?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, obviously Amazon's the easiest.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: There is a website, smarteraboutsports.com.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of people listen to me on your pod that are in and around the Green Bay area.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm coming out.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I just did a couple of signings.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm coming out to do a Cowboys weekend.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the game is Sunday night, Saturday in Appleton at Barnes and Noble.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sunday or no, Saturday afternoon in Green Bay, something called Lion's Mouth Bookstore.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then Sunday, Barnes and Noble Green Bay.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you're going to have three chances if you're around the Packers area
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: on Cowboys weekend, October 16, 17, 18, I believe.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to get that out there.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be there within a month for three signings.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: We will be sure to repeat those dates to everybody as much as we possibly can.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: We got to get our butts out there too.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: That weekend, I got to see you in a person.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love that Barnes & Noble.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's the, right near the stadium, right?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not too far down.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a little shopping area.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oneida.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oneida, yeah, exactly.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the Appleton one's at the mall, and it's a big, big, big Barnes & Noble.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then a private store.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, how you doing?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Ella's making her appearance in her genetic stuff.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: I miss those days.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I got grown children.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're at 7, 5, and 1.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: So as you know,
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: every day is Tetris,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: which means we should probably get ready for gymnastics here, Andrew.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's my cue, right?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: But no, this was awesome.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Stay in touch.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I will have all the links and be sure to promote this because, I mean,
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: you've been so gracious with your knowledge to the world and we're all smarter
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: for it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks so much, Andrew.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Ty.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it.