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The 50 States of Conspiracy: North Carolina · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Conspiracy, the show.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Adam Todd Brown. Joining me as guest
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: co-host this week, hailing from the great state of North Cackalacka,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: from the Punk Lotto pod, Justin Hensley. How's it going, man?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: It's going great. I am recording here from my palatial
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: beach house at Oak Island, North Carolina. So very North
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Carolina today.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: The Oak Island?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: No, that Oak Island is in Canada.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Damn it. That would have been so fucking
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: cool if I could have been like on location from
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Oak Island, Justin Hensley.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Seven seasons deep and they still haven't figured out what's
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: going on.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Someone's going to die there. That's the episode I want
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to watch.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I'm from North Carolina and like I grew up going
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: to Oak Island my whole life. And then when I
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: started hearing about this show, I was like, that's funny.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I go down there all the time and I've never
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: heard of any of this stuff. And then I was like, oh,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: it's not here.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: That's why that makes sense. Who could have known more
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: than one Oak Island in North America? Shocking. So we
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: are carrying on our 50 States of Conspiracy series. It's
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: America's birthday. We're all celebrating. It's all we're doing this year.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: As you'd expect, we're talking about North Carolina. We got
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: a lot. There's a lot to cover. It was more
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: than I expected. I forgot about the Hurricane Helene stuff,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: which we've covered previously. But beyond that, I had not
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: heard of... A lot of the things on this list.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: How about you?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I was looking at your list of everything that you
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: compiled because I had a list of my own stuff
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: that I was fully aware of and I was going
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: to bring to it. And I saw a bunch of
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: things I'd never heard of either. And then I kind
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: of went down a rabbit hole and I kept going
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and going and going. And I was like, we've got
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: like four or five cryptids here. We've got ghosts. We've
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: got stuff like Roanoke was here, even though. Everybody thinks
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: it's in Virginia. It's not. It was in North Carolina.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And we've got like the Devil's Tramping Ground, which I've
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: been there. The Judical. We have so much stuff here.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I kept finding new things to
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: add to the doc. And I was shocked. I was like, what?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: And my wife kept giving me stuff, too, because she
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: loves like folklore mythology stuff. And she was telling me
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: all sorts of things. I was like, this could be
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: in its own show. Just North Carolina conspiracies, ghosts, supernatural stuff.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It seems pretty extensive. And yeah, Justin, as a
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: podcast host himself, added to the notes. So we're going
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to go through some stuff he brought also at the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: end of the pod. Very interesting stuff. Should we just
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: dive right in?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got plenty here.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: We got so much. I like this first one because
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: we usually start with historical stuff. But this is a
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: mix of recent and historical. The Franklinton Records legend. Is
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: this one you were familiar with?
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Once I read some of the details, those sounded a
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: little familiar. But as far as like the name of it,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: it wasn't one that I was very familiar with.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had definitely never heard of this. The only
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: source I really found was a WordPress blog called Stumbling
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: in the Shadows of Giants. You know, you've all read it.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Huge hit website. Everybody follows them.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: As it goes, a clerk of court, as they say
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: it in Franklin County, apparently sometime around 2013 ish is
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: said to have discovered this entire room full of documents
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: in a previously sealed room. in the Franklin County courthouse,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: which I saw in one of the articles about this,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: that this room was at one point considered a graveyard
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: for documents that they wanted to go away, which begs
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the question, why not just burn them? I know we
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: didn't have shredders and things way back during the civil
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: war and whatnot, but we had fire. You couldn't just
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: burn all these papers. You had to put them in
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: a room. Couldn't use that room for something else.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: It seems very odd to just keep it, especially if
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: it's what people believe these documents are. Like, why hang
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: on to this?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The clerk of court who discovered these contacted the
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: local historical society, as one does in that situation. And
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: apparently the local historians walked in and were like, whoa,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: we are over our heads here. this matter which really
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: begs the question of what they saw in those documents
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and don't worry we're gonna find out these historians call
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: in the North Carolina Department of Archives for help the
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: North Carolina Department of Archives show up and just halt
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: work on the project entirely and then according to this
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: legend on Friday December 6 2013 They swoop in, seize
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: all the documents with law enforcement in tow, take everything
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: to an incinerator and burned it all just like your
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: ancestors should have. So also, damn it. I said that
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: previous line wrong. I had a great joke about how
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I wrote it to make it sound like they actually
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: incinerated the cops, but they didn't. But I still wanted
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: to say incinerated the cops, even though I botched it there.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: It's a great phrase. Cop incineration. Yeah, that's a band.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: That's a hard.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: That should be a hardcore band.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Cop incineration. Hell yeah.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Cop incinerator. There we go.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. But also, again, according to the lone
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: source we'll link to about this, it was not the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: North Carolina archive squad who sees the documents. They think
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: it was maybe the Franklin County manager's office. And here's
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: my thought on that. Who fucking cares? That doesn't matter.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Doesn't matter at all. Whatever the case, all the documents
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: were destroyed. Apparently the official explanation was mold. They had
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to be destroyed because of mold. Couldn't you at least
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: run them through a scanner first and destroy that scanner
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: also at the end of the process?
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Or just photograph them. You don't even need... It was 2013.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: We had smartphones, right, in 2013. They were fairly prevalent.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: You could just take pictures of all this stuff and
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: use it for later.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Who hasn't ever wanted to work Under one of those
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: chemistry lab hoods where you stick your hands in the
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: gloves and then it's all a glass case inside. You
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: couldn't slide the documents in there, run them through cam
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: scanner on your phone, something like that.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: There's an app you have where you'll just scan documents
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and turn them into Adobe PDF scanner on your phone.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: You could have done and they would have PDFs and
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't have to do anything to them.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So many options. So, yeah, that does seem a little suspicious.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: The theory is that they were destroyed because they were proof.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: of carpetbaggers coming to the South and sometimes forcibly taking
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: land that had been deeded to freed slaves by their
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: former owners, captors. Captors feels like the right way to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: say it. in 2K26. Here's a quote from the article.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: My suspicion is that in and amongst all those now
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: destroyed records was a paper trail associated with one or
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: more now prominent politically connected North Carolina families that found
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: its wealth and success through theft, intimidation, and outrageous corruption.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: End quote. I kind of believe that.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: That sounds extremely believable. Like knowing the, even the political
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: parties in this state, it's It's a really messed up
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: state politically because it's a state that has had a
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: lot of Democratic governors for a long time. But we
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: have a Republican House, Republican Senate, and we occasionally get
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Democrats on our Supreme Court. But there are times where
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: we have a Democrat governor, but he's so lame duck
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: because they have a super majority in the state House
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: and Senate. So they can override his veto power all
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: the time. So it's I believe it. I believe there
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: was just this party of just guys are like, we can't.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Let this get out. We have to destroy this stuff.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: And I could also with it said to have happened
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: in 2013. By that point, reparations had been talked about
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: for years as a thing that we should consider. And
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: they absolutely are a thing we should consider. And the
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: question becomes, well, Who should that money come from? I
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe wealthy North Carolina families who built their
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: wealth in part by stealing land that was deeded to
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: freed slaves, maybe.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And North Carolina has a bad history, too, of
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: especially in that time period. You know, everyone learned about
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the Tulsa Black Wall Street stuff through mainly through that
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Watchmen show.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: But.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Like North Carolina had its own version of that too
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: in Wilmington, which is right off the coast. And it
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: was the same thing where like they gave these, well,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: they purposely tried to give these, they appointed, you know,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: former slaves, these positions of like leadership in the community,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: but they purposely chose like the least educated and the least,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, intelligent that they could find because
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: they wanted them to fail. And they then could prove
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: and say, well, you see black people can't, they can't
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: govern themselves. That's why we've got to do it for them.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: And when they actually started to succeed at it, they're like,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: oh shit, They're actually really good at this. I guess
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: we got to kill them all and burn all their businesses.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And it's I mean, there's dozens of stories like that
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: throughout the South. And it wasn't just Tulsa. But yeah,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: North Carolina's got a nasty one, too.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if these
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: documents were destroyed and destroyed for exactly that reason. If
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: I was one of those families, I sure as shit
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: would want. those documents destroyed. I bet they were sweating
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: for decades over where those documents were at. And that
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: could even be the thing. Someone could have locked him
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: in that room with good intentions. Like, I'm not sure.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: not going to let these wealthy motherfuckers find this and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: hide what they did. And then the wrong person found it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: A lot of these stories are Eastern North Carolina centric.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: And that is where a majority of our most fucked
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: up shit kind of happens. And I was looking, I
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: was like, where's Franklin County? I wasn't sure where that was.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And it is.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: It's in that same area. It's kind of like northeast-ish,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: central east part. Not too far from Raleigh, but once
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: you get outside of the Triangle area, it's super conservative,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: super rural. It's a very red state with like six
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: major blue pockets.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've said this before on the pod. I've only
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: ever been to North Carolina once and it was fantastic.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: For a show on the Portugal The Man Tour. And
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: it's a show where I was running particularly late. So
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I got to the hotel, ate some crab cakes, went
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to the show, went back to the hotel, and then
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: had to leave the next morning. So I saw nothing
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: of North Carolina. But the people were nice.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Do you know where you were?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Somewhere near the campus of University of North Carolina.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: There's a venue very close to that.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's Chapel Hill and Carbro are like side by
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: side and they got a bunch of venues there. Cat's
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Cradle is the big one.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Carbro sounds right.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Great venue. That's where Merge Records is from. Super Chunk,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Arches of Loaf are from there. It's a great area
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: for music. And that is one of our little blue oases.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: It's one of the few really cool arty towns. But
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: it's also a college town, too, which correlates with a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: lot of that.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a fun show. Alex Schmidt came out
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: to that show. He was living in North Carolina. Oh, yeah.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I forgot he was here.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Good times. Hmm. So let's talk about this next one.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: This is also some old timey shit. Dates back to
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: around the Revolutionary War. The Llewellyn Conspiracy is what its
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: government name would be, I guess. But the far more
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: entertaining name, the Gord Patch Affair. It's mostly on this
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: list because the Gord Patch Affair also would be kind
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of a great band name for one thing.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine, like, a kind of arty indie rock band. Like,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: not jammy, but, like, as close to, like, a jam
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: band as you could get without actually being a jam band.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. God, I hate a jam band.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: We have so many here. Asheville is a city that's
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: full of hippies, and, like, all of those bands love
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: to come through. Widespread Panic is one of the big ones.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Jump Little Children. So many just awful jam bands here.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: No, thanks. So the name The Gourd Patch... refers to
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the pumpkin patch where this group held most of their
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: secret meetings, which, again, just adorable. Key figure, John Llewellyn.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: He was a planter, which I guess is a farmer,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: and justice of the peace, and member of the Anglican Church.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Anglicans were a little suspect of the Revolutionary War on
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: account of how... The new North Carolina state constitution nixed
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: any privileges the Anglican church held previously as the colonies
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: established church. Separation of church and state and all that.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: They were also worried that any alliances with France would
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: end in Catholicism being imposed on them. And the name
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: makes it sound cute, but Llewellyn had some fucking plans.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: He was going to assassinate Whig leaders, several of whom
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: he was apparently at least acquaintances with. if not friends.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: He was going to kidnap the governor. He was going
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to incite a slave revolt, and none of it worked.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: He got ratted out by the loyalist slave patrollers who
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: were supposed to incite the riot. But also, for the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: second time on this 50 states series, we have a
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: historical example of obvious treason trying to straight up overthrow
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: the government and no one goes to jail. Most of
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the people here were met with leniency by the new government.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Llewellyn was at first convicted of treason and sentenced to
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: be hanged, but the governor pardoned him later. And he
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: just lived out the rest of his life in peace.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, it worked on January 6th, too. I mean,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: it didn't work. But look at the ramifications. They all
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: have jobs now and they're going to get $ 40, 000 bonuses someday.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Our new AG, the day we're recording this, he finally
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: got the final approval. The whole thing was that slush fund.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: That was the holdup. And now he's through and it's
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: like you made him promise. And then he's just going
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: to turn around and do it again. You know, as
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: soon as he's in the office, he's going to just
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: do it. It's not just because he promised. It doesn't
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: mean he's not going to.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Is that the actual outcome of trying to overthrow the government?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Is the next administration just gives you a shit ton
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: of money? This next one. Ooh, sounds problematic. Let's talk
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: about the moon-eyed people. This is a race of small
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: men who once lived in the southern Appalachians. That's according
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: to Cherokee legend. Bearded with pale, perfectly white skin.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: It's me. I'm a moon-eyed people.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Very pale.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Before anyone starts objecting over body shaming concerns,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: please understand they weren't called moon eyed because they had
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: big stupid eyes. Justin doesn't have big stupid eyes.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I got beady eyes.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Got regular beady ass eyes like all us white people. No,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: it's because their stupid regular eyes didn't work during the day.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: They were too sensitive to sunlight, but they were nocturnal
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: and lived in underground caverns, which kind of makes the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: rest of the lore a little confusing. But we'll cross
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: that bridge when we get to it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I have a big beard. I also have a light sensitivity.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I may be a direct descendant to the moon eyed people.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could be part moon eyed people, part regular people.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to start working on overnight starting next
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: week for like the fourth time in my life. So, yeah,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I think I'm supposed to be in these caverns. Yeah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Let's see. Maybe you'll thrive in that position. Nocturnal is
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: in your blood. I did find this interesting. There are
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: apparently a bunch of weird stone structures around the southern Appalachians.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And according to the legend, at least some of these
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: are the remnants of a war that the moon eyed
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: people fought either against the Creek or Cherokee people, depending
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: on which version of the legend you believe. Either way,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the end result was that the moon eyed people started
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: living underground because they lost. That's where it gets confusing
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to me if they're mostly nocturnal and super sensitive to
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: the light. Weren't they always living underground? How is that?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: That feels like the war in Iran, where now we're
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: fighting to open the Strait of Hormuz, which was already
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: open before the war.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like they got the order of the story
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: mixed up. It's like they're supposed to be super pale
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: and can't see in the light because they live underground.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: It's weird that the Morlocks came out and they're like,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: we're going to wage a war because we want to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: be surface dwellers. And then they can't see for shit.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: And so then they lose. I don't know.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And couldn't you just let them come out at night?
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Don't you need to sleep at night? Cherokee or Creek people?
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Let the moon eyed people have the night.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the weird stone structures. There is one that
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I've been to. It's called the Judicola Rock, and it
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: is in Western North Carolina, kind of right outside where
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Eastern Carolina University is, which is like further west of, no,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Western Carolina, excuse me, west of Asheville. And it's this
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: rock with all these like etchings and markings on it
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: that have been carved into it throughout the years. And
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: the mythology is that a giant, because apparently they believed
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: in giants at the time, and a giant like landed
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: on the ground, landed its hand on this stone. And
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: then when it removed its hand, it had all these
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: markings on it. And it was kind of meant to be,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it was supposed to be from
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: that mythology point of view, but the other more historically
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: based one is that these were more etchings to determine
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: like a map to be like, all right, here's the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: river boundary. This is the boundary of our territory. This
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: is where, you know, the whites are at, you know,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. I don't know, but I've seen
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: some of these, these special rocks out there.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I like the giant story better. I'm inclined to believe
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: there were giant people at some point. We know for
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: a fact there were giant birds. There was a wolf
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: that was fucking gigantic. It's not outside the realm of
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: possibility that there was a race of giant ass people
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: that just died off for being too giant to hunt well. Yeah.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Too giant to fucking play basketball. I don't know.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And giant enough that you can be body slammed by
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Hulk Hogan.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Andre the Giant is buried in North Carolina. He had
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: a farm in Ellerbee, North Carolina. And yeah, he's buried
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: out there. And there's a little museum there, too, with
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: like all of his like his boots and like his
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: chair that he sat in. Really cool. Just huge things
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: that he had.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Why would he be buried there if no giants in
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: North Carolina?
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They're just all French.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: So this story actually has a lot of details to it.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: One of the interesting things, the moon eyed people aren't
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: described as supernatural in any way, even though that's a
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: regular thing in Cherokee culture. lore. They were just humans
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: who were different from the other humans. So, of course,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you got to force them to live underground. This one, again,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: lots of details, some of them involving a supposed Prince Madoc,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: a Welsh prince who fled his country to escape a
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: civil war, ended up bringing a bunch of his people
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to set up a colony near what is now North Carolina.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And the Moon-Eyed People are descendants of his colonists. There's
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: no historical basis for it. And there isn't even any
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: proof that Prince Madoc ever existed. But starting around the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: 17th century, stories of European settlers encountering white-skinned Welsh-speaking Indians
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: apparently start surfacing. So that's interesting.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I was talking to my wife about this, and she's
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: kind of a pseudo-historian on folklore-type things, just personal interest
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff. And I was mentioning like the Welsh speaking,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: you know, Indians. And she brought up the fact that
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: there is a very strong belief to that part of
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: back when it was still Pangea, the part of England
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: that broke away has connections to this area because there
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: are similar things like vegetation and like Scotland and that
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: sort of area, like that side of the coast of England.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: that are very similar to what you can find here.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: So I wonder if it's not even really Welsh, but
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: it's just similar enough to whatever historical ancient connections that
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: we still had from that time. I wouldn't, that'd be
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: interesting if we could find that kind of information.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is fascinating. So this next one, the Fort
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Fisher Hermit, this guy just sounds cool. Mm-hmm. So I'm
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: assuming this is the part where you cut me off
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and tell me he was a secret Nazi or something.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Had you ever heard of Robert Harrell, a.k.a. the Fort
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Fisher Hermit?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I had not. But I was doing a little bit
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: of research, too, right before. And I saw that he
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: apparently lived in Morganton before, which is the town next
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: to my town.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: And.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: He apparently used to live. He had like mental health issues,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: was abused as a child, lived in the woods. And
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: then like as an adult, got married, had five children.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: One of those children committed suicide, I think passed down
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: some of the mental illness. And then he, yeah, supposedly
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: lived in a mental institution and then was released at
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: some point. And then that's how we we get here.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: So not a Nazi, thankfully.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: That's good. He, according to legend, hitchhiked to Fort Fisher
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: on Saturday. the North Carolina coast at the age of 62,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: presumably after everything you just mentioned, and set up life
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: as a hermit, lived in an abandoned World War II
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: bunker in a salt marsh near the Cape Fear River. Man,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Cape Fear on Apple TV. So good. Javier Bardem is
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: a fucking treasure.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I always tell people whenever they're like, oh, it's a
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: great show on Apple TV. And I'll go, I'll never know.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sign up for Apple TV. I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: have too many. I don't need another one.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: That's fair. They got some good stuff, though.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have heard that. I should do like a
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: free trial and just like burn through as much as
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I can.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: So anyway, Harold just kind of lived off the land
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: and became a local tourist attraction. Apparently, people would sit
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: around and listen to him talk and he'd accept tips
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: and donations in return. So this guy's just me. Basically,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I'm the podcast game Fort Fisher Hermit. I never leave
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: my fucking house. People just give me money to sit
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: around and listen to me talk. Seems like the only
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: conspiracy here is his death. He died under mysterious circumstances
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: on June 4th, 1972. But even then, he just died
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: of a heart attack. I'm obviously not a skeptic in
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: general when it comes to conspiracy theories. But this is
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: one where I'd be like, well, why did they kill him?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Did anyone ever say that?
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't seem he's a hermit who lives in
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: an abandoned fort. Like what is there to gain from
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: killing this guy?
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: And to kill him in a way that medical examiners
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: come out of it and call it a heart attack.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: That feels like government assassination shit.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they use that blowfish gun, whatever they call that thing.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Shellfish toxin gun.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: We're just trying it out. See if it works. Nobody
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: will miss this hermit.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Booty and the shellfish toxin gun would be a fun
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: band name. That'd be a punk band there. How they
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: would have caused the heart attack is not clear, but
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: there are some locals who claim he was killed by
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a group of three men who were seen speeding away
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: in a car. There was a second autopsy done in
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: 1984 after the body was exhumed, but the results were inconclusive.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I read something that said that those men were apparently
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: doing some illegal clamming off of that coast. So that
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: could maybe have been their motive. They're like, oh shit,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the hermit saw us. We'll go get that old man.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And And maybe if he's, you know, in, you know, what,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: in his 70s by this point, probably or so.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe just like the surprise of someone kind of costing
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: him maybe would have caused a heart attack. I could
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: see that happening.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or maybe they just like pushed him over and
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: he had a heart attack, something like that. Yeah, it
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: could be. Could be. R.I.P. Fort Fisher Hermit. Let's talk
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: about the Brown Mountain Lights. You said you've seen these?
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I have.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I have seen these. Once we got to see them
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: and we've tried to see them a few times, but
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Hurricane Helene like destroyed one of the roads to get
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: up to it so we have we've tried a few
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: times but we haven't been able to get.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Back thanks democrats in your weather machine.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: They just wanted to hide the truth about the brown
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: mountain lights.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly These are apparently visible from several viewing points in
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: the Linville area of the mountains, most often reported as
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: small star-like dots of light of a brightness comparable to stars,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: varying reports of how they move anywhere from slow movements
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: to firework type action. What were they doing when you
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: saw them?
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: So when we saw them, they were more along the ridgeline.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: So there's basically this mountain here. And then you're on
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: another kind of like peak on the other side. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: there's a little creek river thing that goes down into
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: the valley. And you can look down into the valley
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: and see kind of up. And it's really well lit
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: because like if it's clear, the moon is coming down.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: It's pretty bright. But we saw them along the mountain ridge.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: So they're kind of like dotting the ridge. And they
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: do they twinkle like stars, but they like flash and
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: they go out and then they pop up in other places.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: And it's far enough away that, you know, they're not.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: you know, lightning bugs or anything like that. And too
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: high up in the air. It's like, that's not what
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: that is. And so, yeah, I've seen them. I didn't
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: see them go down and move like some people say
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: they will do. But I have we have seen them,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: which was really cool to see because it's not always
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: you don't always get to see them.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: You know, it seems like these sightings go back a long, long,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: long time to which I find that part interesting that
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing, like They move different sometimes,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: but the way people describe them are the same. And
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: there have been these sightings for such a long time,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and there's still no solid explanation for what they are.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: The article we linked to blames stuff like ball lightning. Interesting.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Tell me you're a bunch of college students without telling
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: me you're a bunch of college students. Fucking ball lightning.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was looking into it a little bit, too.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: And what I could find was there was no written
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: reference to it before like the 1890s. But there are
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: like stories that go back to Native people having seen
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: them and saying that they're like lost spirits, like people
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: who got lost in the woods. and died in the woods,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: and this is their spirits trying to find their way home.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: But then I've also read, too, that it was like,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: we have no reference of that prior to this point.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And it might just be a case of white people
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: making up shit about magical native people. So it's hard
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: to say.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: It's an interesting one. I would like to see the
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Brown Mountain Lights. It is still one of my failures
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: in life that I have never looked up in the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: sky and been like, oh, that was a UFO. I've
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: been to Albuquerque so many times. I've been to Roswell.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I've never, ever, even once experienced it. Come for me, UFOs, please. Please.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: All right. Now this next one. Oh, I love shit
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: like this. Are you a Stranger Things guy? I am not.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I watched the first season of the show. I thought
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: it's fine enough. And then when season two came out,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I was like, wait, nah, I'm not. I'm not interested.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I'm good. You guys could finish this without me. I
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: didn't care.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Everything about it makes it seem like it should be
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: extremely my kind of shit. But I got maybe three
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: episodes in and was just not interested at all. I
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: didn't realize the identical twin brothers who created that show
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: are from North Carolina, from Durham. North Carolina. And there
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: is a facility in the show Stranger Things. It's called
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the Hawkins facility, and it is alleged to be inspired
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: by a facility called Big Hole in Chatham County, North Carolina.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You ever seen this thing?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: No, this one was another one that I was surprised
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: to hear about. And I read the article, one of
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: the articles that you linked to, and I saw some
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: of the pictures of the building, and I guess I
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: just wouldn't even think anything of it.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: If I just saw it, it's a very nondescript building.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It's just a big white stone building, but it's surrounded
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: by barbed wire fence. There's no trespassing signs everywhere. There's a,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: seems like there's a guard stand, but it's not occupied anymore.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And it, I think they said sits on 191 acres
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: or something like that, but the building is small. It's
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: not what you would expect from 191 acres, but there
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: is apparently a bunker system. And that's where all the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff is supposed to be happening.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: That is the research triangle area, which that's where like
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: a couple different universities are there, you know, UNC, NC State.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I think there's a few more out there, too. So
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if it was tied in with
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: that in some way.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: It's connected to AT & T in some way. It
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: was part of a larger project that dates back to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the 1960s that AT & T just described as an
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: ongoing non-public project. There are similar facilities built inside various
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: northeastern facilities. mountains, AT & T never disclosed the purpose
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of these locations other than to say they were for, quote, communications.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: And yeah, man, you're AT & T. Of course, it's
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: for communications. That's what you do. Go on. Yeah.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And whenever you're just like, it's communications, which to me,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: that just says you're tracking something, at least data harvesting, maybe.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Is this just a secret NSA thing under the guise
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: of AT & T?
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: It would be like finding a secret camera in your
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: car pointed at you and you reach out to Ford
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: and ask what it's about. And they go, it's for cars.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, fuck face. It's in my car. I
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: get it. You're a car company. Go on. They're just like, nah,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: it's for cars. That's all. But there was a 2008
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: News and Observer article that explained this, apparently, and we'll
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: link to The original article about this, it's really well
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: researched and written. It's on IndieWeek.com. And they found this
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: 2008 News and Observer article that explained that these were
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: meant to be nuclear bunkers for military officials as like
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: a continuity of government thing. And I'm old enough to
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: remember the 80s were filthy with bunkers. for surviving nuclear war.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: They had one in my school and I shit you not,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the second it became apparent the Soviet Union was going
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to fall apart, they turned that into a lounge. They
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: put video games in there. It was rad as shit.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: But before that, fallout shelter, bunker. So I buy that.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: explanation it's just that one this one's way out in
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere apparently all the others are in
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the dc virginia area where you'd expect continuity of government
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: shit to happen but this one in the middle of
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the fucking woods i found that interesting.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: We have a pretty big military presence in Eastern Carolina.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Fayetteville has a couple bases there. And like if you
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: hear those stories, I don't know, you probably don't see
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: commercials for that. But there's like infomercials for them about like,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: were you exposed to this kind of water? Then you
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: may be exposed to nuclear content like that kind of stuff.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: And that is in that area as well. Like Fayetteville
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: is maybe like two, three hours because this is Durham area, right?
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: So maybe two, three hours south of Durham is Fayetteville.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of military presence there. I wouldn't
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: be surprised if this was some strange like AT &
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: T government contract where they're maybe converted some old nuclear,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: you know, bunker areas into server farms, maybe, or just
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: somewhere where they could be, you know, storing data and communications.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, because it does seem like they're
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: still in use. All of that nuclear bunker stuff, continuity
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: of government stuff, continuity of government thing, especially once people
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: find out you're kind of burned.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: You can't make that your continuity of government spot anymore.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: They mentioned the Greenbrier Hotel in this, which is a
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: hotel in Virginia that famously has a continuity of government
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: bunker underneath it. And once that came out in a
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: newspaper article or a magazine article, something like that, they
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: were like, well, I guess we got to build another one.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: So it probably isn't that anymore because the one under
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: the Greenbrier Hotel, I think you can just go visit now.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I don't I think it's like a tourist attraction. One
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: of the things they suggest about why this was so
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: remote is, well, it's because if there was a nuclear strike,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: it's going to happen somewhere near D.C. And you want
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: at least one of these things. to be somewhere that's
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: not going to get hit by a nuclear weapon. I
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: kind of buy that. There's an interesting quote in the article, though.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I think the real question to ask is why is
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: there a direct line to the Chatham station from the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Greenbrier Hotel? Who would the president need to communicate with
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: at Chatham?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder. You know, thinking of that continuity concept,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I wonder if this is a way, if they hide
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: it within a private business, if maybe there's a way
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: to keep something off the records that they don't want,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: you know, because a lot of the public information stuff,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: government stuff is supposedly available through Public Information Act stuff.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: And maybe if they're like, well, if we hide it
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: in this non-public project for AT & T, then no
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: one can go in and only the government can go
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: in and check things out, really. So then maybe they're hiding,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: maybe it is just another like, continuation of that project.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: And now that the ones that were discovered and owned publicly,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: they figured out, let's hide them in private. That way
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: we can still use them when we need them. But
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's what the CIA does. They do
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: stuff through front companies all the time, front businesses. It
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: is weird that it seems to still be in use.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: People in this article, there are lots of accounts from
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: people who talk about going there and seeing dudes in
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: white lab coats and all kinds of weird Shit. So
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: who knows what's happening up there? Maybe some stranger things. Shit.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I'm still not going to watch the show, but who knows?
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: It's Matthew Modine. He's just still in North Carolina, just
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: in these labs.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Supporting women's sports. That guy, Matthew Modine, big WNBA guy. Yeah.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: All right. This next one. Come at me, motherfuckers. We
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: can't talk about this one long because I'll just yell
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: for like 35 minutes. An owl killed Michael Peterson's wife
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and not a motherfucker alive can convince me otherwise. How
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: do the locals in North Carolina feel about the owl theory?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I think everyone here just thinks he did it. And
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: it's one of those cases where they're just like owl theory.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of them don't even know the
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: owl theory as far as I'm concerned. And I'm on
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: the more Western side of the state. And this happened
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: in like the Raleigh Durham area. So like, I do
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: remember there being reportings though. I remember reading a news
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: story about like this owl that was just attacking people
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: in the Durham area. And it was just a random
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: unrelated to this case. And it was an owl was
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: attacking people. kind of similar to what's been described in
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: the staircase story. So I don't know. I've heard your
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: coverage of it before, and I'm with you on the
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: owl theory. I do think there is something to it.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we did a whole episode of the Pretty Scary podcast.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll re-release that to celebrate that. this episode but
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: we did a whole episode of the pretty scary podcast
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: about the owl theory and it kills me how little
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: regard people still have for it when one michael peterson
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: is not in prison because the forensic evidence against him
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: is nonsense They did it backwards. You're supposed to say,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: all right, well, here's how the crime happened based on
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: this evidence. They went in and like tried to recreate
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: the crime a bunch of different ways until their recreation matched.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: That's fucking backwards. That's not how that is supposed to work.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And if you watch the Staircase documentary, this dude went
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: to prison for being gay. The prosecutor in that trial
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: is a vile fucking person who should also be in prison.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: And the thing about the owl theory, if you look
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: at the actual physical evidence, this woman died with literal
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: talon shaped wounds on her head. The wound, one of
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: them goes straight up the middle and there's two more
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: that shoot off in an angle from the side of
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that one. Exactly like you would expect if an owl
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: landed on her head and like closed its claw to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: like lock in place. So she's got those wounds on
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: her head and She dies watching a bunch of her
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: own hair and a fucking owl feather. She had an
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: owl feather in her hand. And people are like, owl theory,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: that's stupid. No, you're stupid. And ACAB includes you if
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: you don't believe the owl theory. You are a fucking
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: cop if you don't think an owl killed Michael Peterson's wife.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Come at me, motherfuckers.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: There are owls all over North Carolina. They do exist.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: I have never seen an owl feather in my entire life.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: And I've lived here for nearly 40 years. Like, how
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: the fuck did she get an owl feather in her hand?
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: With her hair too? Clearly, grab the back of your head.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I got a bunch of hair where the
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: owl shredded it out of my scalp. There's a feather there.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: There's no other evidence to me that makes sense. Because
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I watched that documentary too. And I watched them trying
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: to make the like blood spatter work the way they
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: were trying to get it to work. And I was like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: you're trying way too hard to get this the exact
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: way you want it to be. That I'm like, no,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: this is not happening.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: That's why he was released from prison, because the forensic
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: evidence against him makes no fucking sense. I'm 100 percent
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: by the owl theory.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: What's funny, doesn't he not even believe the owl theory, too?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Like even even Michael Peterson's kind of like.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Could be. That wouldn't surprise me, but he should. ACAB
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: includes Michael Peterson if he doesn't believe the owl theory.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: He should be thanking that owl, you know, like, Oh,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: thank God. Well, I mean, I guess the owl is
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the reason why his wife's dead too, but yeah, there is,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: there is that you hate and love that the owl
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: did it, but.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: So this next one, we did an episode about this,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: so we won't get too deep into it. I'll, re-release
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: the episode, but Hurricane Helene and weather modification was a
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: big deal in North Carolina. And we've talked about HAARP
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: on this episode before. I do think there is something
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: to HAARP and the idea that with the right technology,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: maybe you can modify the weather in some way. I
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: don't think they have it controlled enough to just do
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: shit like this. Even if they did, the idea that, one,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: only Democrats are wielding the government's weather machine. That's bonkers.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: But also the idea that they would have done this
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: to keep Republicans from voting in the election that year.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: This shit happened in September. Elections happen in November. Why
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: would you do it and then give people a month
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: to recover and still go vote? You would do it
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: on fucking... the day before the election or some shit.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Makes no sense. It's a dumb theory.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this one really makes no sense to me because
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I agree with you as far as the ability to
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: seeding clouds. There is proof that they can do that.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe not on the scale of creating a hurricane. I
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: don't believe we're at that level yet. But the other
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: part of this is one of the actual hardest hit
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: areas in North Carolina was... was in the Asheville area.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: And I mentioned it earlier. Asheville is one of our
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: few blue oases in North Carolina that really helped to
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: swing the vote the other way. So why would a
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Democrat government want to ruin a potential Democrat stronghold? I
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: know a lot of the surrounding area like Chimney Rock
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: and a lot of those areas where some of those
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: were also hit just as hard are more red and
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: more conservative, but the population is so much smaller in there.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Like there's way more in Asheville and Asheville was like
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: literally flooded. And this story always pisses me off too.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Cause like, I know people in that who live there
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: who literally lost their homes and still don't have homes.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Like they're only just recently like getting new homes built. So,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: These kind of conspiracies always piss me off because it's
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: like there's real world people who have been hurt by this.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: And you're just like, it was the Democrats. It's like,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: this is stupid. This is too stupid. Yeah.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: I also like that there is an aspect to this
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: where at the time, one of the conspiracy theories was, well,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Democrats are intentionally withholding FEMA aid from Republican areas, which
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: is a thing that Trump is literally being sued for doing. Now,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: like openly doing it, openly doing it and admitting it.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like there was any evidence of that
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: happening in North Carolina, but it was a big conspiracy anyway. Yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: And that one bugs me, too, because I have a
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: cousin who worked for FEMA and he was laid off
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: by the Elon Musk cuts. And so that was the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: group that was trying to actually help. And then the
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Republicans came in after the fact and then like wiped
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: that out even more so. So it's there's so many
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: holes in all of this story that just they don't
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: work in any way for me.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So with that, let's move on to the stuff
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: you brought. Do you want to take us through the
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Rhonda Henson murder? Absolutely.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: This one's interesting. Yeah.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: So I came across this story a few years ago
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: when I was watching through all of the original Robert
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Stack Unsolved Mysteries. And within like the first season, they
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: did this episode that was very was centered on where
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: essentially where I live. It was Valdez, North Carolina, which
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: is the literal town I have since moved to. I
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: live in this town and where she was murdered is
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: the exit I take to go home every single day
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: for work. So this is one that was geographically the
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: closest to me as well. December 23rd, 1981, Valdez, North Carolina,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: a 19-year-old Rhonda Hinson was found on Mineral Springs Mountain
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Road exit with her car driver door open, and she
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: was laying on the ground outside of the car. And
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: she had been shot and killed by a single bullet,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: most likely from a rifle. And the police initially thought
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: that it was a random act of violence, but her
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: family really insisted that there was something else going on.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: She would never have stopped her car for someone she
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: didn't know. And that is always my favorite thing with cops.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: They're so lazy that their answer for almost every crime
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: is either, oh, it was a random act. I guess
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: we'll just never solve this. Or they just go to
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: the easiest, laziest possible outcome. The thing is, there is
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: a theory on who did it that you would think
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: cops would have gone with and ran with, but didn't
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: for some reason.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it seems like there's a, the boyfriend did
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: it theory.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: And cops love that.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Cops love that. But also, it seems like there is
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: a the boyfriend whose family was rich did it and
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: his family successfully managed to get this to go away, which, oh, man,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: do I believe that kind of shit, especially in like
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: a smaller town?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two witnesses would later come forward and say that
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: they had seen Rhonda, her car, and a man that
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: they did not know standing on that exit ramp. One
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: of the witnesses, under hypnosis, described him as a 5'10
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: to 6' tall with brown hair. Kind of matches her
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: boyfriend's features. And a dark colored Trans Am was parked
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: further down the road. And yeah, it's the theory. It's
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the long-standing theory that the boyfriend did it.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I will say, whenever I see stuff like under hypnosis,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh boy. Is someone getting railroaded?
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Well, it says nothing has happened. No, but yeah, that
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: hypnosis line jumped out to me when I read it too.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know about that one.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Right before we started recording, I was eating lunch and
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I just turned on investigation discovery. I don't remember what
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: show was on, but this crime that happened, they're interviewing
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: a woman who was a witness and she's going through
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: the entire fucking thing, naming her boyfriend in this accomplice
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of his. And at the end, They go, oh, well,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: but also witnesses saw a white guy drive in the car.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: And that's the moment where she was like, oh, yeah,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: there was a third person with him. Also, they had
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: a third friend. It's like both of you shut the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: fuck up. None of this happened. What are you talking about?
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: That's like with the West Memphis three where there's that Mr.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Bojangles character in the story. This is like this dude
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: comes in like covered in blood, smearing the walls of
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: blood into a Bojangles gas station like the day that
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: the kids were murdered. It's like you don't wonder about
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: that guy. Where who was he?
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: I want to ask that guy any questions at all.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: So Rhonda was dating Greg McDowell. He was a high
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: school sweetheart and he had a tendency to be very
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: like possessive and like you need to be here when
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I do this. A very controlling kind of boyfriend. Total
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: dickhead behavior. He goes off to college. She's like, I
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: don't want to go to college. I'm just going to
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: stay here. She starts working at the Hickory Steel Company,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: which I used to live in Hickory as well. And
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: her mom works there as a clerical. So the night
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: of her death, there was a Christmas party at work.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: And initially she didn't want to go. But then she
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: was like, Oh, yeah, I think I will go. I
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: will go. But I'm not taking Greg. Greg's not going.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: And they her family kept trying to convince them that like,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: just let Greg go. You know, it's fine.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: It's fine.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Greg can go. And she was like, No. And he
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: they said he called a bunch of times while she
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: was getting ready. And they would talk for like three
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: minutes and then hang up. Like it was just like.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: an argument. She didn't want to go with him. So
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: she goes to the party. She initially intends to stay
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: with her friend that night and just, you know, have
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: a girl's night after the party, but then decides last
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: minute to go home. And then this is where the,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: you know, the fateful event happened. I do wonder if
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: there is a possibility into this story that he got
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: in touch with her somehow at the party, or he
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: knew someone, maybe his mom was there and like said,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: you need to go home and talk to him or
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But that being said, She goes
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: home and that's when this happens. There is an interesting detail, though,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: that a few weeks prior, her mother, Rhonda's mother said
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: that she asked her, like, is it OK for someone
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: to see a married man? And her mother gave her like, no, no,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: that's not OK at all. You shouldn't do that. That's terrible.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: It's just an awful idea. You shouldn't do that. And
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: she's like, oh, OK. And then like it never came
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: up again. And so there is the theory that maybe
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: there was another man involved and Greg found out. And
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: that is what led him to do this.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I would feel like the married man thing would still
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: kind of point to the boyfriend. Right.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: You have someone mad because the married man's getting what
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: he wants on the side. Anyway, he still got his
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: wife at home. He gets his side piece. Why is
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: he going to mess that up? Unless she's going to
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: go tell somebody, but it didn't seem like that's what
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: she was trying to do.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: So there is another element to this story that is
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: very interesting. There was a website. It's called like the well,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: the Wilkes recorder and they had a very long series.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: It was like a or six part series on this
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: story published within the last 10 years. And the site
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: is down. I've been to the site before, maybe a
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: year or two ago, and I can't get it to
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: work now. It seems like a lot of those stories
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: have been scrubbed from the website or even the site
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: itself is down. But someone did archive all of these
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: because there's a Facebook group. It's called like Remembering Rhonda Henson.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: And it's the entire Facebook group is just about her
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: and trying to solve it. And someone shared all six
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: articles there. in the series in there. So you can't
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: read them all. They're just all on a Facebook post.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: It's kind of awkward and annoying to get to. But
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: in one of those stories, it talks about how Greg's
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: father was a preacher. And his name, I think, is
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Charles McDowell. And he was one of those disgraced preachers
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: because he was caught having an affair with another woman,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: winds up getting a divorce from his wife, and then
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: winds up marrying this woman. Now, the idea is, you know,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: preachers are pretty well regarded in this area, even still
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: in 2026 or 2027. They're kind of considered pillars of
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: the community. It's a southern state, so there's still a
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: lot of religiosity in the area and very strong southern
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Christian values and that kind of stuff. They all look
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: forward toward preachers all the time. Never mind the fact
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: that so many awful people go into the clergy and
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: but regardless. So the part of the theory is that
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: he is a very well connected individual in the town.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: He is well known.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Greg is known for being a hothead. And the idea
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: is there was another witness who says there were two
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: people in a truck spotted driving in a different direction.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I couldn't find much sourcing on that. That may have
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: just been one of those Facebook posts that said that.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: But there is a theory that Greg did it and
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: his dad covered it up before, even though he's like
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: a disgraced preacher, he is still considered a preacher. He's,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: you know, they're just like, oh, he just had flaws.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: He had flaws. You know, this just strikes as one
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: of those stories where everybody knows what happened, but nobody
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: will do anything about it.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I can absolutely see him still having enough
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: power in the the community to cover something like this up.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: It's also, it strikes me as the kind of crime
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: where if you just do what the Instagram videos tell
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: you and lawyer up right away, you'd probably get away
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: with it. I mean, they would almost have to have
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: the murder weapon on you and match it to the
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: bullet that was in her. Otherwise, this is the fucking, what,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: the 80s? 81.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: So it's not like there's surveillance cameras. It's not like
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: the cameras in her Tesla are gonna pick anything up
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: like yeah you could totally get away with this shit
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: god if i was older in the 80s man i
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: would have been murdering motherfuckers left and right i spent.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Enough time with like anarchists and like just gutter punk
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: streets you know like trying to figure out how to
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: find ways to survive And the number one thing they
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: always say, don't talk to cops. Never talk to a
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: cop about anything, even if they're not even asking you
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: questions about what you did. If they're talking about other people,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: don't tell them shit because they always will just spin
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: it around on you. And they don't have anything on
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: you if you don't give them anything because they're lazy.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Don't talk to the police. The official motto that you
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: don't even like podcast network. Let's talk about the Beast
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: of Bladenboro.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: This one's fun. We have a couple cryptids. We have
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Normie in Lake Norman, who is supposed to be like
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: a Loch Ness monster type creature. But I think it's
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: just a really big fish. But they do say that
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Lake Norman has the similar wave patterns as Loch Ness does.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: And then they do the they call them the Loch
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Ness game or the Loch Norman games here where they
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: have like this big Scottish festival with like the caber
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: tossing and all that kind of stuff. But you know,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: That one doesn't really have many stories about it. It's
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: just like, I saw it.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: That's kind of it.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: But the Beast of Bladenboro was centered around events that
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: happened in the winter of 1953, 1954. Bladenboro is another
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: eastern Carolina part of the state, very close to the Lumberton,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Fayetteville area. A lot of freaky, weird shit around Lumberton, too.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Worst crime. I think Lumberton is considered to have the
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: worst crime in the state. So it's like really rough, rundown,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: poor area. So between December 29th and January 5th, nine dogs,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: a pet rabbit, and a goat were all found dead
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: in extremely violent manners. Most of the instances of the
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: animals were described as having been shredded to ribbons and
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: literally crushed with like one dog's jaw being ripped out entirely.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: And skulls crushed is it has to be a pretty
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: big animal that could do that kind of thing. Yeah.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Some of the stories say there was blood everywhere. But
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: then there are other stories that said there was no
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: blood at all. And when they did the autopsy on
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: the dog, they had only one or two drops of
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: blood in their body as if all the blood was
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: sucked out of it.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's chupacabra shit.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right? That's like goat eater stuff, which we have
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: a dead goat in this story. So there are also
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: some stories where like the dog's bodies were like soaking
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: wet as if it was being carried in this creature's mouth.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, please. Yeah, I know.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: It's such a sad story to read because like, oh,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: these poor doggies, because they all sound like they're all pets.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, saddest one on the list.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: I know, right? These dogs didn't do nothing. So there
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: are some eyewitnesses to a few of these attacks, and
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: there always would describe it as a large creature with
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: some say mostly feline, but some also say like a bear.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: It's described to being about four point five feet long,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: bushy and resembling like a mountain lion or a panther
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: in some instances. I don't really think of them as
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: bushy animals, though. I thought that was kind of an
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: odd description. Other descriptions say it was a little smaller
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: and that it had another smaller creature around it, like
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: a baby or something. There are hunters from Wilmington who
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: said they tracked it around swampland for about three hours
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: one night and it kept making like a circular motion
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: in its path, which implied that it had like offspring
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: or a mate somewhere that it was kind of trying
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: to stay close to. but just out of reach of
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: these hunters as much as possible. There's a couple different
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: witnesses that said that they heard like a crying sound
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: that maybe sound like a baby. And then there's another
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: description that said it had like a scream, like one
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: of those, like a Panther kind of growl or scream.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: And as a North Carolinian, I'm familiar with that sound
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: because we have the Carolina Panthers and we're their bad team,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: but they love that sound effect. So the night of
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: January 5th, 500 people and dogs began hunting through the
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: swamps and woods looking for the creature. The following night,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: more than 800 people are there. The next night, it's
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: like 800 to 1,000. But then the mayor calls it
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: all off the next night. He's like, look, there's way
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: too many people out there. There's way too many guns.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Somebody is going to accidentally get shot because they're going
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: to get scared and like, there's the beast, shoot it.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a responsible mayor. Put mayor in right there.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: So they call off the hunt. January 13th, a local
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: farmer finds a bobcat struggling in a steel cage, probably
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: a trap set up to try and catch it. The
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: hunter or the farmer then kills the bobcat, shoots it
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: in the head in the cage. Sad. Poor kitty. And
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of people. And then the mayor goes and says,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: all right, the beast said that was the beast. It
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: was the bobcat. That's what did it. And a lot
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: of people are like, I mean, we know bobcats are
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: pretty dangerous. They get a hold of you. They can
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: do some really bad damage. But dogs are pretty big, too.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: And a dog.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know about a bobcat being able to crush
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: a dog's skull.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: What about the drained blood? Also, right.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like is a bobcat sitting there suckling blood?
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Doesn't sound right at all.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: So another farmer claims he ran over a cat that
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: was like kind of smaller and spotted. I think that
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: guy just ran over a cat. I don't think he
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: ran over the beast of Ladeboro.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: And then another hunter later claims he killed a bobcat too.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: So there's like three people are like, we killed bobcats.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I wonder if this is a Jaws situation where they're
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: just out there just killing all these animals. And it's like,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think bobcats did this. I don't know what
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: you're talking about here. The reason why a lot of
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: people don't think it is a mountain lion or a
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: panther is that supposedly in the state of North Carolina,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: mountain lions are extinct. They supposedly don't live here. They
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: don't exist anymore. The people who live here say that's
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: full of shit. They're like, they do live here. I've
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: seen them with my own eyes. My wife is one
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: of those people. She said when she was like a kid,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: like close to pre-teenage, she woke up one night, went
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: to the bathroom, came back, and she was like... I
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: feel like there's something watching me. So she went to
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: the window, looked out the window, and she says there
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: is a mountain lion on the porch.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so cool.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: And she like runs to go get her sister, like,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: and then they go look and they see it together.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: And they run back and just like, turn, like, turn
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: the lights off. Don't let them see us. You know,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: we stay inside. We should be safe. So my wife
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: is like firmly convinced, like, no, we have mountain lions
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: still here. I think they do still exist in the state.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: I just think it's not in the population amounts where the,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: you know, these experts are able to find enough to
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: give them the proof, but it's just spread out enough.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And shit like that happens all the time. Either
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: something that experts and scientists thought was extinct just pops
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: up again. And they're like, oh shit, look at that.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: We thought you were dead forever. They're still finding new
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: shit all the time. They just discovered some species of
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: monkey that has orange lips and in a jungle somewhere
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: in Africa. And it's not like it's a little pocket-sized monkey.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: It's a regular-ass monkey. It's just the jungle is fucking huge.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: So it took that long for someone, not only for
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: someone to see it, but for someone who could do
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: something about it to see it. Because it's one thing
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: for your wife to see it, but... I doubt she
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: knows the next steps to contact the right authorities to
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: get that on the official record somehow. Like you need
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: an expert to see it for them to be like, nope,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: they're back. And until that happens, yeah, it's just going
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: to be a fucking rumor. But it's not crazy to
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: think they could be back in North Carolina.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Especially since they're not extinct in the rest of the country.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Like that's the other part. It's like, just because they're
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: not here in huge numbers, doesn't mean they couldn't come here.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Like one got away from wherever it's normal territory is
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: and wound up in swamplands in North Carolina.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of my favorite documentaries from the past few
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: years is about a guy in a small area in Ohio.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: And one of his jobs is just going out to
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: reports of people owning wild animals as domesticated pets. And
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: he's in like some small community near Dayton or some shit,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: I think. And he's like, no matter where you are,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: In this country, you're probably not more than like five,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: 10 miles away from a tiger. Someone in your community
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: owns a fucking tiger. They own a snake they shouldn't own.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: It's just so widespread. Who knows if someone brought home
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: two bobcats as fucking pets one day and was like, whoops,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: that's a boy and a girl. This is going to
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: be a problem. And just let them out. And now
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: it's everybody's problem. That shit could happen. So easy.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: There are other theories, too, about like it could be
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: like an ex-cop dog, which ACAB includes ex-cop dogs, I guess.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Sure does. Sorry, puppies.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: There's a farmer who says he gave a German shepherd
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: mix to a native kid who lived near like the
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: swampy parts of Lumberton. And there was like a local
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: veterinarian who was like, well, that is possible. That dog's
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: name is Big Boy. It was known to be able
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: to like jump over like a six foot high fence
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: and like would go kill chickens all the time. So
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: local veterinarians are like, it's possible. It is the right
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: size to do that kind of damage. It doesn't really
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: explain the blood, though.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we're just going to frame the native kids dog. Sure. Cops.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I believe that big boy is innocent.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Freedom. Release big boy. Yeah. Big boy is probably very dead, but.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, sure. Sure.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: The mayor, though, does say later that he believes that
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: the story is actually a hoax. And even though he
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: was the one to initially report the story, the initial
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: killings at least, and he claims that a little publicity
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: never hurt a town, which is their full theory.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: I think it's a mountain lion. And then I think
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: the reason why they never found it is because a
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: thousand hunters with dogs and shotguns went roaming through the swamp.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: And it said, I'm getting the fuck out of here
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: and never came back.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: That's probably when mountain lions actually went extinct in North
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Carolina was that night. Fucking night of the long knives
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: for mountain lions.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: A year later, December 15th, 1954, five pigs and three
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: chickens were found with their skulls crushed. and the blood
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: removed from their bodies. Very much like the previous deaths.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: So it's hard to say really what caused this. It's
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: hard to say any of this even actually happened. You know,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: it is a weird story.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Even that if it's just a regular ass animal, why
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: is it striking like a serial killer? And just showing
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: up every once in a while, doesn't it always need
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: to eat? Wouldn't it just be fucking murdering animals left
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: and right in that area?
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, is this mountain lion, you know, it
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: went through its cooling down period that all serial killers
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: go through and then like, oh shit, it had like
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: a really stressful, like six months where like, oh man,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: it lost its job at the textile plant and its
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: wife left it. Yeah. And then it was like, you
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: got to fire that, that killing drive up again.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Naughty mountain lion. Holy shit. So there's a Cold War
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: nuclear warhead in Goldsboro?
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a few of these stories down here.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I don't have a ton of details on them just
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: because they're, you know, we had a lot of stories already.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: So I just wanted to touch on these. But yeah,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: apparently in North Carolina around 1961, a B-52 carrying two
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: nuclear bombs had some sort of like malfunction. I don't
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: know if it was an issue with like the wing itself,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: but it dropped both nuclear bombs automatically. In Goldsboro, North Carolina.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: And as far as I can tell, this is considered
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: one of the most dangerous, almost explosions in United States
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: history involving a nuclear weapon. It basically like if it
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: had actually gone off, it would have been the biggest thing,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: nuclear thing to have ever happened in the United States.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: They're both equipped with parachutes for in case of something
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: like this happening. The first bombs parachute went off and
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: it just gently floated down to the ground. No worries
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: at all. The second bomb parachute did not work and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: it just crash landed into a farmland. And the only
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: reason why it didn't explode is because the whatever mechanism
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: that is supposed to like trigger the, you know, the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: nuclear detonation and the actual like explosive part of it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: It began the process mid air. But by the time
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: it hit the ground, it wasn't far enough into that
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: process to actually do the full thing. I assume that's
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: a case of you have to hit something in the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: cockpit to begin that process before you release it. So
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: it will work. There is like a bunch of really
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: boring like science about it, too, that I was just like, uh-huh.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: Just just tell me it didn't work. And so they
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: found the site. They removed the explosive component of the bomb.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: They were able to like get enough of that out.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: But they dug and dug and dug and they could
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: not get that nuclear warhead out. Like they basically are like, oh, shit,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: it's down here somewhere. We can't find it. They don't
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: think it was stolen or anything. They think it's still there.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: And they're just like they are like, oh, that's safe.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: It's safe enough.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's comforting.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: And it's like we think about those toxic nuclear waters
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: that they have off near Fayetteville. And it's like, is
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: there toxic chemicals like leaching into the water in that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: area now?
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Nah, it's probably fine.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: It's only a nuclear warhead that's been sitting there for
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: over 60 years.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Those things, they were probably built to last.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: That story kind of reminds me of the documentary Command
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: and Control, which is about an incident that happened in
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: 1980 in Damascus, Arkansas, where it's a very similar thing
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: where a nuclear weapon, I believe. I don't think it fits.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: fell i think it was just in a silo and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: failed in some way if i'm not mistaken it did
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: explode but like not in a nuclear way or something
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: it's a fascinating documentary but we were all almost fucked
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: in 1980.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: It's wild how many times that it almost happened the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: one thing needed to make it actually be a horrible
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: event didn't and saved so many people's lives because of
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: it yeah fascinating pizza gate Yeah, you've covered this one
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: pretty extensively, I believe. Pizzagate, you know, infamous story of
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: the Democrats are secretly running a pedophile ring and involves
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: emails with John Podesta and Hillary Clinton and cheese pizza
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: code words and emails and all that.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Very weird.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: I do think the pizza is code for something. I
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily think they would be being like, hey, Hillary,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: here's my child ring, you know.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not by any means convinced John Podesta is
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: not a pedophile. Yeah. And it is weird that when
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: it comes to Pizzagate, it all started with someone being like, hey,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: those hacked emails, search for cheese pizza. And all this
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: weird shit does, in fact, come up referencing cheese pizza. Yeah.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Because it was Democrats were supposed to just be like
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, like, ah, I don't know. He seems pedophile adjacent.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: You seen the art on his walls? That's not normal.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I do wonder what Hillary's connection to that is. I
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: don't get that vibe from her, but.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think there's anything to Hillary Clinton. I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: think that was the whole thing. I think they were
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: maybe pointing to a possibly real thing about John Podesta
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: that does not involve Hillary Clinton, but trying to connect
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: her to it. in a way that makes her seem involved.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think Hillary Clinton is a pedophile. I don't
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: think Puma Abedin drinks adrenochrome and eats the pituitary glands
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: of children or whatever the fuck. But John Podesta being
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: a pedophile?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe. We know they exist.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: We do. And we got one in the highest position
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: in the land.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: And I feel like with the art thing, because if
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: people will just have to look it up, John Podesta
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: has a very disturbing reputation art collection and it's the
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: kind of thing where if he was outed as a
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: pedophile at some point you would look at that art
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: collection and go oh he was trying to tell us
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: yeah me and connor talked about it i wouldn't be
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: surprised if that is kind of a litmus test for
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: new people he brings over where it's like oh how
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: do you react to this are you like fascinated by
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: it because then maybe we can really be friends yeah
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: maybe you'll be really fascinated by the other shit i'm
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: into And if you're horrified by it, then he knows,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: all right, maybe I won't mention what's on my computer
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: and we'll just drink wine and watch movies or something.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: It's a vibe check. It's to see if you're cool
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: with it. Yeah, I believe that.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: It's not, not weird. Yeah. We're damn sure. But Comet
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Ping Pong, I don't think is involved in that. I
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: think that's a weird leap to be like, oh, well,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: if they reference cheese pizza, they're talking about child porn.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: And then to make the leap to, oh, well, they
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: also ate pizza at this one pizza place. It's like, motherfucker,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: everyone eats pizza. Yeah. That's different. I... Probably just getting
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: pizza from the pizza place. Yeah. And then the child
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: porn is probably coming from other places. Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't hide the child porn in the literal abbreviations
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: of where... You're using the code word from.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: My favorite thing about Edgar Madison Welch, the shooter, was
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: the part where didn't they just like show him that
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: there was no basement? And he was like, oh, fuck. OK.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: It's like, man, you could have asked before you started shooting.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: They might have shown you.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: Edgar Madison Welch. That is the North Carolina Connection. He
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: is from Salisbury, North Carolina.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: And yeah.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: He bought into those theories and he went up there
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: and demanded to be shown. And then they were like,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: we don't have a basement, I think was one of
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: the stories. And then he and he gives up. I
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: think he got in there was like, oh, I just
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: ruined my life. All right. And because he like turned himself,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: he just went outside and was like, all right, you
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: can arrest me. So he gets his jail term. He
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: gets four years. I didn't know this. The judge who
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: sentenced him was on Supreme Court. Kataji P.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Brown. Oh, Kataji Brown Jackson.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Brown Jackson. Yep. She was the judge who actually sentenced him,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: which was like, that's that's odd. Well, we're going to
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: keep it going because once he's released from jail, he
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: goes back to his home in Salisbury, North Carolina. And
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: then he winds up getting stopped by police for a
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: traffic stop. There are people in the car with him.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: The people in the car get out of the vehicle.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: He does not get out. He has a gun that
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: he is refusing to drop. And the cops are like,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: put the gun down, put the gun down. And he
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: refuses to do it. And then they shoot and kill him.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: And there is this weirdness to it of was this
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: a case of just a guy whose life was so
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: fucked up that he decided to suicide by cop? Or
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: did this not happen the way it supposedly said it happened?
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: And there is something weird with maybe John Podesta's like,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: how about we take care of this guy? You know,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: like we don't want any lingering ties to remind people
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: of this event happening. I don't know. It's bizarre.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's weird to me that the police shot a
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: white dude for not lowering his gun. Because that doesn't
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: sound like the police at all. Did they ask him
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: if he was hungry first? Did they ask if he
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: needed to speak to anybody? Because that doesn't feel like
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: usual police protocol with white people. Yeah. It's weird that
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: this guy ended up being killed by police. I can't
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: imagine what he would have known, though. Like if he
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: showed up at Comet Ping Pong Pizza. feels like he
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: was kind of on the wrong track but who knows
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: yeah i wonder if comet ping pong ever entertained the
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: idea of like a buy a pizza and we'll show
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: you that there's no basement sort of emotion like just
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: reach out directly to the pizzagate crowd and be like
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: hey come through buy an entree at regular menu price
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: and you can inspect the building all you fucking want
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: they would have Made such a killing. Would have cleared
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: their name. I should be running comedy. Ping Pong Pizza.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: Did you know Comet Ping Pong hosts punk shows all
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: the time?
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: Someone did tell me that at one point, which is, oh,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: I wonder if we could do a live episode at
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Comet Ping Pong Pizza. I bet you could.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: I bet you would just have to be like, hey,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: can we rent out the space for the night? Because
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: like I saw bands play like bands I follow and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: listen to. had dates where they would list Comet Ping
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: Pong as one of their dates. And I was like,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: holy shit, I would totally play that place if I
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: was in a touring punk band.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, that's such a good idea. I'm going
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: to try and do a live Conspiracy the Show at
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: Comet Ping Pong Pizza.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: That'd be incredible. I'd come up for that. That's a
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: five hour drive for me. I'd do that.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: If anyone has any non-pedophile connections to Comet Ping Pong Pizza,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: reach out, help Conspiracy the Show. do a show in
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: your area, I would absolutely, I would do that. One
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: of my best friends lives in that area. Hell yeah.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: All right. Last one. The Lumberton serial killer. Tell me
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, we have apparently a serial killer in North Carolina
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: that they won't call it that. So a few years ago,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: there was details about a few kind of mysterious deaths
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: that happened within very close proximity of each other. Three
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: women are all found dead in the same four block
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: radius within Lumberton, North Carolina. Lumberton has come up several
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: times already in what we've talked about. Like I said,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: really rough area. So two women were discovered on the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: exact same day. Two of them, actually all three women
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: that they have found, they caught it. They found another
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: woman maybe a week later, maybe a month later. And
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: all of them in the similar condition, they were all
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: badly decomposed. They were all nude and they were all
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: stuffed in places where they were meant to be hidden
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: so that no one could find them. One was stuffed
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: inside of a television, which I don't even understand.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: What that is.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like a flat screen. Probably not. Yeah.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: I don't understand what I could even figure out the
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: physics on that one.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: So you got to take the guts out of the
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: TV to do. Yeah. You're just that feels like serial
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: killer shit.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: That feels like you're sending a very specific message. Like
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: you're like, could you see the body through the screen?
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Because if so, that's that's someone trying to do movie shit.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: They're trying to mortalized.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: And then the same day that they found her in
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: the television, they found just a woman in a trash can.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I guess they ran out of time.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: They had like, oh, I spent so much time on
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: setting up my TV diorama that I forgot to find
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: another place to put this lady out of stuff in
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: a trash can.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Trash can had all the guts from the TV
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: in it. They had to dump that shit out. Fucking hassle.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: So, and then like a month later, they find a
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: third victim. And I think she was just kind of
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: found behind a house. She wasn't necessarily like staged in
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: any theatrical way, but they all died with the same
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: amounts of trace cocaine in their blood, but it was
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: not considered enough to have been a lethal dose. So
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: it was basically like, maybe this person used cocaine to
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: find these women to like, you want to come party.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: And then like, people with substance abuse issues like yeah
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: that sounds fun i'll go hang out with you strange
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: man i don't know and then that's his way in
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: and then takes advantage of the fact but then like
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: essentially the police are just like we don't consider this
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: a serial killer and it's like it really sounds a
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: lot like a fucking serial killer like what why do
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: you not consider.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: That did they say why they don't consider it a
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: serial killer.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: They called the FBI immediately. They're like, this looks weird.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: We need the FBI. And then the FBI comes in
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: and then they don't really even consider it a serial
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: killer either. Now, I'm wondering if this is a case
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: of like, this isn't actually technically classified as a serial killer.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: This falls under more of the spree killer scenario, which
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: like maybe it's just a technicality that doesn't meet like
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: the five points that you need to be called a
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: serial killer.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: Well, you also hate to think it, but when you
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: say this is a pretty rundown area, what's the demo?
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: The demo is very heavily Native American. Lots of Lumbee Indians.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Huge Native community in Lumberton. Also very Black. I wouldn't
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: be surprised if it was also Hispanic as well. Also Lumberton,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: not far from Fayetteville, which is where all the military
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: bases are at as well.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: So.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: It is considered a very rundown area. It is a
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: very drug heavy area, especially meth. Meth is really bad
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: in that area. And I think this is a case
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: very similar to what was it called? Like the Grim Sleeper.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: Was that his name?
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: South Central LA. Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Where it was just like, who cares? It's not white
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: people in a shitty area with bad drug problems.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's what I'm getting at. This version of
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: the American government and even this version of the FBI
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: has made it clear that they're not here for people
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: of color. They are here for white people. They are
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: here to serve white people. And a crime like this
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: happening in a country impoverished area where it's mostly indigenous
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: people mostly people of color i can very much see
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: this version of the fbi being like you we're not
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: investigating that who cares and that's the kind of thing
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: that i'm sure five ten years ago people would hear
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: and be like okay that's conspiracy theory it's not the
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: 60s anymore that's not what the fbi does One, yes,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: they do. And they always did. They've never stopped. But two,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: I bet it doesn't feel like conspiracy theory anymore. When
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: you have the FBI openly firing black people, openly firing
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: people who are too woke. You have the Justice Department
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: shutting down lawsuits, civil rights lawsuits that are about black people.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: This government has made it clear we are for white people. So, yeah.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: I get why they would say this isn't a serial killer.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Because they're not going to fucking investigate it. They would
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: have to investigate it if they said it was that.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: And I think this is a case of either two,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: one of two things I think happened. One, this was
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: a traveling person, maybe related in the military. Maybe they're not,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: they got deployed somewhere and they're not there. Or maybe
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: they got, you know, kicked out of the military and
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: they went home where they're from. It could be that
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: it's just somebody who doesn't live in the area anymore.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: Or two, it is someone who lives in the area,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: got nervous about, from the way like the attention it
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: was getting and the fact the fbi was brought in
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: that they then are like either they change their methods
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: to just like look more like a regular drug related
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: death maybe switching to guns switching to just od or
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: something like that or just got so scared that they're
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: just like i'm hiding and just not going to do
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: anymore you know they got it out of their system
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: for the time being and then yeah i and because
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: it's like you said it's not white people the cops
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: just like i don't know that's why we don't have
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: as many well-known black serial killers in the country It's
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: because they just didn't bother to look into Black Death
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: and people who were being murdered. And it's just like,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: they don't have them. It's a white people thing. It's like,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: I think it's just a people thing and of all types.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just bad cops.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Ah, bad cops. The foundation of the true crime industry.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: So I think that's our episode. We did it. Justin,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing the pod. This was
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun. What do we have to plug
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: before we get out of here? Tell people about your podcast.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me on. I am a
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: big listener. I've been listening since the crack days. And
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: I mentioned to you earlier, we had Andy Sell on
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: our podcast a couple of years ago to talk about
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: the Mountain Goats. So if you dig into our podcast,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: you can check it out. Punk Lotto Pod, I host
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: it with my brother. And the premise is we choose
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: one year at random and select one punk, hardcore, emo
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: or punk adjacent album. from that year to discuss and
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: we kind of cover as much as we can in
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: that umbrella we hit things we love we talk about
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: things we don't love which infuriates some reviewers on iTunes
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: they're like you don't like this record ah zero stars
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: it's like you can't give zero stars for an opinion
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: you don't like the opinion but this is not.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: The construction can though I know.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah but So, yeah, we talk about punk rock. We've
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: been doing it for about eight years now. We are
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: coming up on our 400th episode later this year. And
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of fun. We do. We've been doing
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: it for a long time. We have a Patreon where
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: we talk about other stuff. Combined hours of audio every
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: single week is at least like three, three hours. So
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: we've been pretty busy. I also do a show. It's
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: part of our podcast feed. So it's all under the
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: punk lot of pod umbrella podcast. And it is called
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: the guest list where I have on guests to make lists.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: And it is usually I give the guest a prompt
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: and then they'll choose three to five albums or artists
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: that fit that prompt. And we talk about those records
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: and it's a ton of fun. And you and I
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: were talking a little bit beforehand. I'm going to try
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: and get you on as well and be really fun.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: I'll try and get Andy back on and it's really fun.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed doing it. I had a really good time.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: The most recent one I did was, With my buddy,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: John Russell, he was in a band called Drug Country.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: And it's kind of like this acoustic alt country, but
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: like kind of psyche, psych rock thing as well. Really cool,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: trippy stuff. That was the most recent guest list that's
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: going to be out. But yeah, love it. If people
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: checked it out, Punk Lottopod. And we're on all the
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: social medias under that name.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: Check it out, everybody. And like I mentioned on the
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: last episode, if you want to listen to this podcast
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: without all of the ads and get bonus episodes, you
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: can subscribe on Spreaker. There's a new way to do that.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: Go to youdontevenlike.com slash conspiracy subscribe and you will find
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: all the links to do that. And I think that's it.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: Let's get the fuck out of here. Justin, say goodbye. Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye, everybody.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: We love you.