Latest / Terri Messenger's Genius Zone / From Darkness to Light: Journey Through Vision Loss and Healing

Transcript

From Darkness to Light: Journey Through Vision Loss and Healing · Terri Messenger's Genius Zone

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Hey, hey, hey, and welcome, welcome to this week's Genius
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Zone. And this is the place and the
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space where we bring coaches, healers and leaders to add
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exceptional value to our audience.
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And today we have a very special gift.
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We have a beautiful woman, a woman who is a doctor of
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chiropractic, Oh yes, like my husband, and she has a PhD in
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somatic depth psychology. Yes, you heard that, and you
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will find out more about this and she will share her
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transformative journey from losing her own eyesight to
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discovering the deep healing through somatic and prenatal
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psychology. So this is rooted in the
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groundbreaking work of Carly Jung and this lady.
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With no further ado, I hope I say her name right, Elizabeth
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Wisniewski. I'm going to bring her right
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here to the stage and introduce her.
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How are you, Elizabeth? I'm great.
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Thanks so much for having me. It is an absolute pleasure.
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So I guess let's begin with, before we move in to, you know,
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what your work is about with the mother archetype.
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Let's move into your own experience of losing your sight.
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So do you want to talk us through that?
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Yeah. Absolutely, when I was about 5
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getting ready for kindergarten here in the United States.
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I grew up in the state of Michigan, and the pediatrician
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just noticed something looks a little bit different when we're
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looking in her eyes and looking at her retinas, even though I
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could see totally fine. So my parents pursued that and I
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went to some different ophthalmologist.
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They wanted to do exploratory surgery on me.
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And my parents said no. And I'm grateful for that
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because I'm, you know, five years old and it took about a
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year and I got diagnosed with a really rare retinal disease
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called familioxidated vitre retinopathy, also known as
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fever. And it's mostly found in boys in
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the Middle East and often has a genetic component.
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I have none of the genetic mutations and I'm a woman of
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Polish ancestry on both sides of my family and nobody else has it
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in my family. So that was a mystery and I'll,
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I'm sure I'll talk about it later of how I've made meaning
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of that and some really deeply soulful experiences I've had
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around it. So growing up, I was having all
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these surgeries and most of the time they'd be laser to stop the
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bleeding or to reattach my retina.
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There was times I would be like the third or fourth person in
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the world to have a particular surgery.
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And during this time as well, my mother was going through breast
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cancer treatment. She went through 3.
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She had breast cancer three different times starting when I
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was in about third grade and she passed away when I was in 9th
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grade, but also in 9th grade. I lost both of my retinas
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detached within about 5 weeks of each other.
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The first one I was at swim practice.
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I was a competitive swimmer my whole life.
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And all the sudden I couldn't see the wall for a flip turn.
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And during this time when my mom was still alive, she had been a
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special Ed teacher. And she she helped me through
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geometry and really visual classes with making pegboards
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with rubber bands and feeling and learning different ways to
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meet objectives, but getting there in a different way.
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And that really served me later on down the road because about
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seven years later, I'd finished undergrad in environmental
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studies and political science, wanting to go to law school, be
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an environmental attorney. And I had my 30th surgery on a
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week after finishing my undergraduate studies, and I was
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supposed to get vision back in my left eye.
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I'd already lost all the vision in my right eye when I was 14.
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And I woke up from that surgery just deeply knowing in every
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cell of my being something was really wrong.
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And I in fact, lost most of the rest of my eyesight instead of
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gaining anything back. So here I was turning 22 and
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thinking, you know, my whole life is over now.
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And but I didn't let that stop me.
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I heard a commercial for medical massage school, enrolled in
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that. And a couple weeks in, I had
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never taken anatomy or Physiology before.
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I went to my dad. And I just said, you know, thank
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you for paying for my undergrad, but I I need to go in a
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different direction. I think I meant to be a
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chiropractor. And my dad said OK.
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And so I went and I took all my science classes like chemistry
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and physics without being able to see them.
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Employing all those skills my mom taught me when I was younger
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of how to meet course objectives in a different way, how to feel
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things, how to be kinesthetic in my learning.
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And that's what led me into becoming getting my first
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doctorate degree. Wow.
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And if I may say so, this also awakened your sensory breeds
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because they say when 1 three goes down, then, you know,
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there's this incredible awakening in the other elements.
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And I can just imagine how skilled you are through your
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hands. And obviously, you are very much
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about the profound insights of the mother archetype.
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Yeah. And you mentioned especially how
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unplanned Caesarean sections can cause dissociation and trauma.
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But you know, I'm just wondering where did you ever track perhaps
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anything yourself when you were in Utro that may have been
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LinkedIn with your own traumatic experience here, you know, from
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obviously, as we say here, the journey through vision, loss and
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healing. Yeah, so First off, I was
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actually born through a cesarean section and not having my mom
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now to ask why I've asked my dad and he's like, I don't know.
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That's what we were told we were doing and I was the first born
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and then my sisters were C sections after that.
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Subsequently feedback wasn't offered.
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But I have done all this healing work over the years of so many
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years of things like talk therapy, but then getting into
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more somatic and soulful based therapies, working with shamans
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and doing this soul returns and finding those different pieces
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of myself scattered. And one of them when a really
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profound experience I had was envisioning myself in utero and
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the soul fragment that I had left behind from that and my
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soul choosing this lifetime to lose my eyesight was this big
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piece of garnet. And that was my mom's
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birthstone. She was a Capricorn born in
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January. So I'm sorry, an Aquarius,
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actually my dad's a Capricorn and it was this big piece of
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garden. And so I was like, wow, that's
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really related to my mom. And I was able to make meaning
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of that experience of my soul chose this.
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So I'm here to do something bigger.
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So however that looks for people, whether you journey back
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to your own in utero experience or however you're making
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meaning, you know, having that kind of wisdom can be so
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helpful, however you get there. So yeah, I, I that's what I
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truly believe. I love that because that gives
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us, you know, because let's face it, there's always gonna be some
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trauma while women are carrying their babies.
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And I know I I had three babies and I birthed 3 beautiful
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children to cesarean myself. I think where I was fortunate is
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it was very much planned. So the doctor told me right from
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the get go, this is what's going to happen.
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So I literally had prepared myself for it.
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But each and every pregnancy was different.
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And I found that my emotions were quite different from when I
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was, say, carrying my daughter through to when I was carrying
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my son. I had more of the masculine kind
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of energy around it where I was very much in feminine.
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And then my third child, I called her my chosen child.
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And the reason being is because, you know, I had a lot of issues.
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She was unplanned, so she was our surprise.
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And you know, I believe that there were a lot of trauma right
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there in the wound when I was carrying her.
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And she finds it very difficult today to regulate her nervous
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system. So I love that you have spoken
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about being able to go back to you Troy and kind of re coat or
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reinstall that whole experience. So what do you teach people?
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Do you usually help them through that visualization where they
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can literally go back into Utro and recreate how that is?
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Not necessarily where that's my intention, but that certainly
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happened when I'm doing bodywork or gentle chiropractic work with
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them, where they're dropped so deep in that they'll envision.
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I've had people imagine a different way of birthing their
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own child that was deeply meaningful kneeling for them.
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So I really think that when we have the nervous system down
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regulated, because we're often in fight or flight and it needs
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a down regulated that and we're more open to these experiences
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than our psyche, which is connecting our unconscious to
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our conscious can bridge that and perhaps show us those in
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utero experiences, whether it's in our waking life, in our
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mind's eye, or even in a dream. And so that's really worth like
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the Jungian psychology, the Depp psychology can come in as well.
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So paying attention. So I'll ask my patients about,
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you know, what are you, what are you dreaming about these days?
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And that can be really insightful as well.
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So these things show up, whether it's images or symbols or
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archetypes all the time. We just have to ask different
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questions. I love that and the subconscious
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does process, you know, our memories differently and let's
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face it, most of our memories we're just making them up now
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anyway. So even when we do, you know,
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recall a trauma that is locked into our body, sure, our body
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has recorded that and that's that's what's there until we go
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through a healing process. But on the other hand, when
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we're revisiting it also in our minds eye.
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So if we're angry with someone or we've got a trauma that keeps
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coming up guaranteed 100% that as we read that we're going to
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add to it, we're going to subtract from it.
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It's never going to be exactly the way it was.
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So I mean, let's face it, if we're going to make up stories
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and we're going to create this kind of trauma loop, why not
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then create, recreate it so that it's, it's beautiful.
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So it's it's powerful and it is something that is going to be
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more befitting to what we want in our life.
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So you also talk, and I never knew this and I never thought
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about this until you mentioned it.
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But you talk about women who disassociate from the scar of
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the caesarean. And I wonder if you can talk us
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through that and what makes a woman.
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Like when I think about it now, I mean, there's that that I
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carry. I mean, it's it's like a badge
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of honor. You know, this is where my three
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children were birthed. And but come to think of it, I
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yeah, it's untouchable. It's a no go zone.
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So, you know, can you tell us about that?
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What is it that causes women to go into that disassociation
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about that scar tissue? There's so many reasons and this
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is what brought me into my research for my PhD.
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My dissertation was on the lived experience of cesarean birth
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from a cross cultural perspective.
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And I got so curious because what was showing up in my
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practice was on plan cesarean births where they wouldn't touch
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the scar or anything below it. They weren't producing milk.
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And that's when I was realizing they were maybe disassociating
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from it or dismembering in those like nothing existed from that
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far down and they didn't, you know, there was so much going on
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and I was like, how can I help them remember that they're whole
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and complete and that is a window to how they brought their
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babies earth side. So what can be going on is a
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couple things like from my interviews when I did my
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research, one person had to go under general anesthesia because
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the epidural and the spinal block didn't work.
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And I've had a patient have that happened recently as well.
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And so when you have a caesarean birth under general, you're
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literally not there and present and then you're watching a video
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to make meaning of that experience that is really, that
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can be super traumatic. And then in terms of unplanned,
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a lot of people told me, you know, I had a birth plan and
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C-section wasn't part of it. So I didn't pay attention to
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that part of my childbirth education class or the hospital
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tour. So they were really traumatized.
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And there's a lot of, at least in the US, like a lack of
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consent in the ways of not telling them, oh, this
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medication is going to make you shake and feel really cold no
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matter how many hot blankets are on you.
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So then they're separated on their way to the OR going
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through this liminal space, stepping through that threshold
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into motherhood, not knowing where their partner is because
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the partner might be scrubbing in.
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And that's really hard, that separation, being in that
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liminal space alone, shaking. So your body is going to try to
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like block out these memories. So a lot of it is protection.
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And you know, even with that scar in the way that the body
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puts down scar tissue, it's adhesing to parts of your body.
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And so that's a big reason I recommend scar massage and
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actually touching that area, but starting with like touching it
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through a washpoth, using different textures, maybe then
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getting cupping from an acupuncturist or pelvic floor
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PT. So it's starting to engage with
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that area, but slowly. And the other thing you really
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should do is tell your birth story because the research shows
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every time you tell it, you can find more and more wholeness.
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So it's it's complicated and complex, like every birth story.
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Absolutely. And you know, because you are a
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chiropractor and obviously you, you're very much intuitive and
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you're working through your hands.
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And I know that my husband used to always say God is doing his
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work through my hands. And he did a lot of, he was very
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intuitive. I talk about him like he's past
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tense, but actually he's not, he's just not practicing
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anymore. But the fact is that he would do
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a lot of the kinesiology with it, so he'd be able to the back
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and the spine and their muscle and know where the trauma is.
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And in actual fact, I believe that played a huge role in
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releasing a lot of their pain in their body.
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How much pain are you dealing with in men and women that come
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to see you where there's a lot of pain?
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And do you find that it is trapped emotions held in the
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body? It definitely can be and I like
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to ask different questions. I'm not fixated on a pain scale,
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although that can be important information.
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It's not like my end all be all. I really like to know like what?
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What do you love? What were you not able to do
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when I'm talking about something like pain?
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And I also, because I studied Ayurvedic body work, I'll look
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at it from that perspective. I know some of the main
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meridians from traditional Chinese medicine, especially the
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lung Meridian and people with a lot of grief there.
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So I'm able to name that and talk to them from that
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perspective. So I kind of see it in layers
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and how I experienced them when they're on my chiropractic
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table. But absolutely trapped emotions
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in the body. We can see that show up in like
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Louise Hayes work, but also just the way that in TCM or Ayurveda
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or even Western anatomy and Physiology, there's similar
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patterns for like the upper tract trigger point in the
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shoulder going up and around the ear behind the eye.
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That's the gallbladder Meridian. That's frustration.
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So I really see it in layers and all that fashion.
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How can we unwind? That wow.
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So you can kind of detect that the symptoms as a result of
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unresolved issues. And I definitely have.
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I was talking on a podcast. I seem to have done a lot of
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podcasts this week, but the one that I did last night, the lady
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described that because my husband had out of control
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diabetes and she associated that with that with not, you know,
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life not being sweet enough. You know, that longing like,
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and, and I do, I do recall him always saying that he wished he
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had done that. Like one of the things he used
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to always say is I wish we had children together and I wish
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that we'd done this. And, and I'm saying, why not
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just be happy where you're at rather than constantly longing
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for what you perceive. And he was a very optimistic.
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And I say past tense because obviously for people who know he
19:55
is in Care now, but when you experience such a significant
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vision loss with this rare eye disease.
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Do you believe that enhanced your sensory gifts?
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Yes, yeah, I feel that. That's my embodied experience.
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And I also know that it's found in the research they've done,
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functional MRI studies where cells will migrate from one
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cortex to another when you have a diminished or lost sense.
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And so I absolutely feel that even for me, like memory is a
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sense my family always calls me and they'll be like Bethy, what
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happened this year? And I can remember and I feel
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like it's a superpower play. Like I really think it's because
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I have this very like spaced in Zend in experience of like being
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very like in my embodiment. So I definitely feel that.
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And I feel that's why I'm able to work on babies just use like
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the tip of my finger. And I have friends that are PTS
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and they're amazing practitioners and they'll bring
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their own babies to me. And I'm like feel that.
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And then they're like, Oh yeah, now I feel that.
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And it's just, I feel it through like this little part of my
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finger because I'm just attuned that way.
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That is incredible. And, you know, you obviously
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studied a lot of Carl Jung's work and, you know, going
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through the Webster certification.
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Can you talk us through some of the favorable Carl Yul theories
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that you bring to the table with what you you give and what you
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offer? Yeah, one of my favorite things
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within Jung's work is something he didn't write nearly enough
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about, in my opinion. And that's the unholy Trinity,
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which really appealed to me as someone who's raised Catholic as
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well. He talks about the unholy
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Trinity as these things that society doesn't want to talk
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about because it's like, you know what they talk about in
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like women who run with the wolves?
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It's it's the moist, the dampness, the things we want to
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like set aside. So Young said it's the
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unconscious, the feminine and the body.
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And when I first heard that in my master's, the PhD classes,
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and that was a six year program start to finish.
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So a lot studied a lot of Young. I was like, oh, that's the
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that's the juiciness of this program right there.
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I'm so interested. And so that's why I'll ask my
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patients what they're dreaming about, which is, you know, not
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your typical chiropractic question, but I'm wondering
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what's coming through? What are they?
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What are they learning from their dreams in that could help
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me give me some clues for what's going on in their physical body
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and the unconscious. So it's unconscious, the
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feminine, and that's when we look at it as an energy, it's
22:49
receptivity. Are they open?
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Is their heart space open? Are they really shut down with
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the way they're communicating and with their baby?
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Are they yelling on the phone while holding their baby and
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then wondering why their baby is constipated?
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You know, those, those things all are correlated for me.
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And then the body. And I think that if Young would
23:11
be alive today, he might want to consider changing the body to
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the soma, because the soma, you know, part of somatics, the soma
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is our lived experience. That's the first person
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subjective. And when we die, when we pass
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away, our bodies left on the earth, but our soma is no longer
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there. And I think that Soma has this
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beautiful life force part of it, which is so chiropractic as well
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and chiropractic philosophy that there is innate intelligence,
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there's a life force, this energy flowing through us that
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gives us so. You're the real deal, girl.
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Oh. I won.
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The philosophy award, a lot of the, the recent chiropractors
23:58
that are up and coming have got no philosophy and that really,
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but I can hear you've got a lot of philosophy.
24:08
And he was always banging on about innate intelligence and
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the intelligence. And that's why I'm a firm
24:16
believer that since he always taught that the first thing that
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was laid down at birth is the the central nervous system and
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the innate intelligence of our body is truly a miracle to
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behold. Then why on earth couldn't we
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surely heal something that we might be suffering, you know, an
24:42
element a, a back pain, diabetes, you know, whatever
24:50
that happens to be Because how much easier is that than
24:56
actually creating the, the whole body and it's innate
25:00
intelligence, which is absolutely incredible.
25:04
So you obviously are a strong advocate for the archetype of
25:10
the mother. Yeah.
25:12
And we focus in on the trauma. And obviously you do you deal
25:15
with both men and women. I take it you would.
25:19
And you found yourself, obviously, because everything is
25:22
about the law of attraction, right.
25:25
And we attract to us what is kind of an aligned match.
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So you attracted in the mother archetype and focused in on the
25:37
trauma relating to birth and its long term effects.
25:42
What do you believe are some of the most commonest issues that
25:49
may go unnoticed? Like, in other words, women
25:53
don't even realize that they're dealing with this kind of trauma
25:57
that happened at birth. Oh my gosh.
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Well, you're so right at the beginning because it's like, who
26:03
better to deal with the mother archetype and trauma than
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somebody whose mother passed away when they're young in a
26:08
traumatic way? And so of course it shows up and
26:13
you know, and I, I, it's, it's so it's not even ironic.
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It's just like what it is, you know, with trauma, people will
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often share their birth stories because I always ask and I'll be
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listening and I want to be like, Oh my gosh, that is so much
26:28
trauma. But you don't want to say that
26:30
when you're being trauma informed.
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So you just say that witness and hold space and help them.
26:35
Just guide them gently in their meaning making experience.
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And eventually they may realize I had a lot of trauma, but I've
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listened to some very traumatic births, and they don't realize
26:46
it because you don't know what you don't know.
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So if you're pushed into like a cascade of interventions and you
26:53
didn't have somebody like a doula there to advocate and
26:55
support you, which the research shows is the number one way to
26:59
prevent birth trauma, you might not realize that getting a
27:06
membrane sweep or having your water broken without consent is
27:10
traumatic. In some cases, even obstetric
27:13
violence. You may, you just might not know
27:16
that. So those are the things that I
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hear a lot where it's like then this happened and then we gave
27:21
you side attack and we did servital and those are the
27:24
prostaglandins. And then we did this then, oh,
27:26
now you're on Pitocin. It's really intense.
27:28
And you know what? Your pelvis is actually the
27:32
wrong shape and you're it's too big or it's too small, your
27:35
baby's too big, and there's all this mother blame game shame
27:38
happening, and now we need to whisk you away for an emergency
27:42
C-section. And so all of that can be
27:45
traumatic. And those are stories I hear,
27:47
especially with our Caesarean birth rates in the United States
27:50
and throughout the world as well.
27:54
Wow. What are the rights?
27:55
What are the rights, Elizabeth? A couple places that I know of
27:58
hand within the Western Hemisphere, Canada's 26%, most
28:04
of the Caribbean in Latin America is 45%, Brazil's 55%.
28:09
So I really, I know those just because of all my research right
28:12
offhand. But one that really stands out
28:14
to me that's interesting is actually South Africa, because
28:17
they have a public and a private hospital system and their
28:20
private hospital system. So people that can afford
28:23
private care is 77%. So yeah.
28:30
And so we can look at it culturally.
28:32
Like in Brazil, they want to do AC section before your valley
28:36
pops at the end a lot. Some cultures, it's about
28:40
vaginal preservation. In India, there's this an upper,
28:45
you know, echelons of society. People are meeting with their
28:48
Vedic priests like they do. They pick their wedding time,
28:51
picking the time of birth based on the astrology.
28:54
So there's a lot happening. I hear you.
29:01
I sorry, I hear you so much on that.
29:05
With all my children, I chose the date and I thought, well, if
29:08
I'm going to have a Caesar, I have the right first.
29:14
My first birth, which was a daughter.
29:19
In the Burmese culture, which is where my father comes from
29:24
originally, they believe that it's better not to have a child
29:29
first born on a Saturday. Now this is just cultural
29:33
belief, but because of that belief, I insisted she would be
29:37
born on a Friday. And my third child, the the girl
29:42
she was, my doctor announced that he would deliver her on
29:48
Halloween. And I said hell no, what
29:54
happening? And you know, I bless all the
29:57
people born on Halloween. By the way, I have got a couple
30:00
of friends. I actually, I made that because
30:05
really I think you and I both know this a lot.
30:09
It comes down to our belief system.
30:11
So if we believe something, then we're gonna make that true, you
30:17
know? So.
30:18
So it is. Yeah.
30:21
So, you know, with the Carl Jung concepts, the other concept is
30:27
about the tension of opposites. Now, can you help navigate that
30:34
one and how that is all kind of tied into what you do and your
30:41
practices? Yeah, so Carl Jung talked a lot
30:44
about this tension of opposites where maybe you're between two
30:48
decisions and you're not sure which path to choose.
30:51
And while you're in that decision making space, the
30:55
liminal space, it can be really uncomfortable.
30:58
But what Jung would say is that's OK, sit with this
31:01
discomfort and just be with it and be present with it because
31:05
eventually 1/3 option will emerge.
31:09
And so that's, you know, so if we're looking at something like
31:13
birth, it could be, you know, I want to try to have a feedback a
31:17
vaginal birth actor cesarean or I've already had AC section.
31:22
So like maybe that's easier. So it's like, what's that other
31:25
option? Because that, you know, babies
31:27
are going to be born vaginally or through your belly.
31:30
So the third option that may emerge is I'm going to try, you
31:35
know, child labor in a really intentional way.
31:39
But if I need AC section, I'm actually going to be prepared
31:43
with my own rituals this time, especially if it was on plan the
31:46
first time in an emergency situation, I'm going to have
31:49
fake candles. I'm going to ask to choose, you
31:52
know, choose the music in the operating theatre.
31:54
I might have some lavender or sage Clary, like Clary sage oil
31:58
or something with me and make it really intentional.
32:00
And so there's these other beautiful things you could do in
32:03
these circumstances. And actually, you know, there's
32:05
a trend out of Australia the last few years called gentle or
32:10
maternal focused and with a clear carton and also maternal
32:15
assisted is a thing coming out of Australia where the mom
32:18
actually pull the baby out of that incision.
32:22
So that I find really interesting as well, because you
32:26
know. Maybe the real baby actually
32:29
pull it out of there, right? Now really, yeah, it's kind of
32:32
like the myth of Gaia. Like don't call it the.
32:36
Wrong way though, huh? They'll they'll guide you.
32:39
But you know, I think that's really cool.
32:41
So talking about, you know, sending that tension of
32:43
opposites, there's something else that can happen that can
32:47
make this a redemptive experience if you in fact had a
32:51
traumatic experience the first time around.
32:53
OK, so there's no such thing as a double-blind then that double
33:00
binds in NLP, you know, would you like to go this way or would
33:03
you like to go that way? And they have to make a choice,
33:08
but I do that. I'd have to.
33:11
But that, that's the general conception.
33:15
So where what you're teaching here in the tension of opposites
33:20
to help people navigate feelings of being pulled apart or feeling
33:25
unworthy. And I have heard this, it's a
33:28
bit of a theme, 'cause I, as I said, I've done a lot of
33:31
podcasts this week, you know, where you know, you, you, you
33:37
sit with it and you be with it and you embrace it.
33:42
And then, you know, another opportunity comes along and how
33:47
sweet that is. So yeah, I actually have a
33:53
beautiful friend who is Soul birth.
33:58
Her name's Faye and she is on Edge Radio.
34:02
So we branch out to Edge and I believe she's got a Tuesday
34:08
show. And I truly love to put you
34:12
together with Faye because she's, you know, she's just got
34:16
so much knowledge and I feel she would do what you're doing a lot
34:23
of justice because, you know, she understands that work that
34:28
you're doing. I mean, obviously as a
34:31
chiropractor, are you mostly in person or do you do anything
34:38
virtual? I'm really branching deeper into
34:41
virtual embodied coaching and embodied leadership coaching.
34:46
My new website will be launched soon with those offerings so
34:50
that I can work with more people and you know, impact more
34:53
people. I'm also in the midst of a
34:56
course that I'm creating with a really good friend of mine who's
34:59
a doctor of PT, She's a pelvic floor PT that we're putting
35:03
together a somatic and trauma informed birth prep course
35:07
together that people will be able to do virtually.
35:09
So I'm having more and more virtual offerings as I'm, I'm
35:15
fading, you know, way a bit. So you know some of my
35:18
chiropractic hours because I I want to do other things and be
35:22
able to be on the world more so much as I love that hands on
35:26
care and individual care. Well, you know, you've just got
35:30
so much about you with your, you know, incredible gifts, your
35:35
Carl Jung theories and even shamanic perspectives.
35:41
So it's. Dive a little bit deep into the
35:44
shaman. I love this, the shamanic
35:51
healers in Costa Rica and all that kind of jazz.
35:58
So can you talk us through because a lot of listeners may
36:02
not even know what a shaman is. So let's let's go back to grass
36:06
roots and talk deeply from the perspective of, you know, what
36:11
happens in the shamanic healing and what does that mean for a
36:16
person when they're experiencing this?
36:19
I would say if anyone ever calls themselves a shaman go the other
36:23
way cause a lot of times they're not so be really be really
36:28
clear. But shaman comes from from
36:31
Siberia, the the word itself and and Spanish speaking countries,
36:37
they're called Kurandanas and they're really they're hands on
36:40
healers and or bone setters, which is the precursor to
36:44
chiropractic found around the world and a lot of cultures
36:47
still today in villages all over.
36:50
And they might use herbs and local botanicals.
36:54
And so I just, I think it's a really interesting perspective,
36:59
you know, being able to see the world in a different through
37:01
like a spiritual lens as well. So I would never consider myself
37:06
a shaman, but like if I was allowed to call myself a bone
37:09
setter instead of a chiropractor, I would really
37:11
love that. What was that?
37:13
Sorry, what was that? I missed that I call yourself
37:15
what? A bone setter.
37:18
A bone setter. I love being like, I want to be
37:22
a priestess bone setter. That's way more exciting to me.
37:26
Bone setter that is so important.
37:32
I know that you know, I I guess the more you become unique and
37:38
original and the more ish down you become too.
37:42
That is just so incredibly powerful, so.
37:47
How do? Dreams reflect through our life
37:51
and some of those shamanic perspectives.
37:55
Oh, I I want to share a little story about that.
38:00
I had a dream when I was first about six months into my program
38:03
for my masters and PHDI was dissolving my initial practice
38:08
with a business partner. That was a really toxic bad
38:10
situation for me building a new practice and in school.
38:14
And I have this dream where I'm being surrounded by a snake and
38:20
but it started in the middle of my spine.
38:21
It came out of my spine. So whenever I say that people
38:24
think kundalini, but that's kundalini isn't my thing and it
38:29
wraps around me and I literally set up in waking life in like it
38:34
wakes me up because it freaks me out.
38:35
And I go, this is a message from psyche.
38:38
Like I yell this out loud. And so I'm like, what was this
38:42
dream? So I go and I meet with my
38:44
therapist because when I was getting my master's, we were
38:47
required to be in therapy a certain amount of hours.
38:50
And so I'm like, I was sitting in this yard working this dream,
38:54
like going back in being in the place of active imagination,
38:58
which is a Jungian principle of, you know, it's like a, it's that
39:02
liminal space. You're, you're there, you're
39:05
engaging with the snake. And I'm like talking to them,
39:09
but I'm kind of in 1/2 meditative state.
39:11
So I worked this over and over, going over the dream so many
39:15
times. And eventually I witnessed the
39:18
snake fully wrap around me and then lower itself into the earth
39:23
and it leaves me, its tail and its tails around.
39:28
And I was like, whoa, this is an initiation, right?
39:31
Like. And so then I, I eventually,
39:35
soon after at a yoga festival, meet somebody and he's, you
39:39
know, I, I believe we have multiple soul mates and I meet
39:41
this guy and it's really magical.
39:43
And I like, we learned a lot from each other.
39:46
But as our journey came to an end, the next year, we're
39:50
traveling to Mexico and I get out of the car and there's an
39:55
actual rattlesnake. And it fell.
40:00
I was like. OK, I think this journey is
40:03
complete with him. Like my soul learned what I
40:06
needed to in this partnership in this time.
40:09
So that's how I engage with dreams.
40:12
And it's not always like that though.
40:14
When I, I usually have this sense, this felt sense in my
40:18
being of like this is a big dream.
40:20
And that's when I'll write it down.
40:22
I'll voice memo it to myself and I might paint it.
40:26
I might put on music and dance with it.
40:28
I want to engage with that, you know, and that's an archetypal
40:31
thing to do. And you don't want it to let it
40:34
overcome you, but you want to come into a relationship with
40:37
it. And so there's books on dream
40:40
tending that I by Steven Eisenstein.
40:42
He was the person who founded Pacifica, where I've got my PhD.
40:47
It's literally called dream tending.
40:49
And that teaches you how to do that and how to tend to your
40:53
dreams. Look, they can be very
40:59
prophetic. I can remember about 15 years
41:03
old and having a dream where I was surrounded in pygmeats and
41:11
they were all these evil little people.
41:14
And, you know, it was quite a scary dream.
41:17
And I remember waking up and telling my mother, and my
41:21
mother's always been a spiritual person.
41:24
You know, she transitioned from clairvoyancy into Christianity.
41:30
And, you know, she basically told me things about myself when
41:35
I was a young girl that actually did come to pass.
41:38
But she wouldn't go. She wouldn't.
41:41
She transmuted that gift into prophecy and healing.
41:48
And when I was 15, she was definitely that strong
41:51
Christian. And she said, Terry, I think
41:53
this is a warning. But the interesting part was
41:57
that I'd had a short person come to the door and I'm a short
42:01
person too. I mean, I'm not short short, but
42:04
you know, I'm, I'm about 158 centimetres tall.
42:08
So this short person followed by another one and next thing I'm
42:15
surrounded by. And a lot of them were guys, but
42:21
it was also a lot of evil that took place.
42:24
There was a lot of bad stuff that happened.
42:28
And reflecting back on it, I went, oh, that dream.
42:34
And it was a warning. And, you know, as a
42:38
hypnotherapist today, I'm I'm aware that dreams don't always
42:43
mean what they seem, but they can be very metaphoric.
42:47
So it can be in, you know, a language of its own.
42:53
So, you know, I want to ask you the the final question and it
42:56
just wouldn't be fair for me not to ask this because it's, you
43:00
know, you get heated up. And I feel that if anybody only
43:04
had 15 minutes to listen to a podcast or a a video, go to the
43:12
middle to the end because that's where momentum is filled and
43:18
everybody gets into it. So what is the one thing that
43:23
you haven't shared on this show today that you would love to
43:29
share with someone out there that is perhaps praying to meet
43:34
someone like yourself in the field you do?
43:38
What would you say to them that you know really can give them
43:45
some insight? Everybody has challenges.
43:50
I don't think anyone gets through this life unscathed from
43:53
certain sort of trauma. And you don't have to identify
43:57
fully with that trauma. But like I said, be in
43:59
relationship with it, learn from it.
44:02
And so from that challenge, hold that tension of opposites like
44:07
we've talked about already, because something else may
44:10
emerge. And for me, my challenge has
44:13
been losing my physical eyesight, But I gained this huge
44:18
vision for myself and for the world, and I'm able to be in a
44:22
career where I don't need my eyes and my eyesight.
44:26
I use my hands and my heart and my third eye intuition really
44:31
tapping in and witnessing and holding space for other people.
44:35
And this didn't happen overnight.
44:38
I did a lot of work, all sorts of therapy from talk therapy to
44:42
EMDR somatics, became a $500 yoga teacher.
44:47
But you know, another example right there, like if I can
44:51
become a yoga teacher without being able to see, I really
44:53
think anything's possible. And we're getting Helen Kelly.
44:59
We were to Helen Keller in the main here.
45:02
Yeah, I mean. A profound woman.
45:05
Yeah, so I think turning your challenge into your greatest
45:08
strength is the best thing you can do.
45:11
A gift to your soul, a really gift to others.
45:15
Absolutely so. Turn your pain into your power
45:19
and your work into wisdom. That's what the Genius Zone is
45:22
all about. You know, every person that
45:24
comes on this show, it's all about their beginnings, where
45:29
they started, how they have been able to transmute that and, you
45:34
know, bring it into their power of genius and that that's a very
45:39
healing aspect right there just in itself.
45:43
So how will people find you now? Firstly, we will be putting all
45:49
your links into the show notes, so make sure you do get in touch
45:54
with this beautiful lady. And where would you like to
45:59
recommend people will find you? First would be Instagram Doctor
46:04
Elizabeth Wisneski and on there you'll see my link tree because
46:08
I have a new web page with a new domain coming out soon.
46:12
So if you're following me on Instagram, you'll get all of
46:14
that. That's really the best way to
46:16
engage with me, you know, send me a DM on there.
46:19
But also, I have a tech platform I'm actually the president of
46:24
called Dream Planet. And that's another great place,
46:28
especially if you're a creative, an artist.
46:30
Find me as Doctor E Queen, dream on Dream Planet.
46:36
I love that. I love that.
46:38
So I love those letters after your name.
46:40
DC, doctor of chiropractic, PhD in somatic depth psychology.
46:48
Thank you so very much, Elizabeth.
46:51
It is has been an absolute pleasure to have you on show.
46:55
Thank you, this has been so wonderful, I really appreciate
46:58
it.