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Finally! JUSTICE FOR ABBY AND LIBBY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Guilty guilty on all counts in the Delphi double murder trial.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Richard Allen has just been found guilty in the murders
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  Speaker 2: of Little Abby and Libby. We are at the courthouse,
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  Speaker 2: joining us, Susan Hendrix.
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  Speaker 1: Susan, what happened?
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  Speaker 3: Four days of deliberation? Guilty on all counts, Richard Allen,
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  Speaker 3: it's on, guilty on all counts.
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  Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum joining me, who has been covering this story
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  Speaker 2: from the very beginning. Along with me, along with Susan
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  Speaker 2: Hendrick and Dave mac Cheryl, I understand that people poured
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  Speaker 2: out of the courthouse and had not made it to
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  Speaker 2: that bottom step where you and I waited to get in,
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  Speaker 2: and yelled out guilty, and then a cheer went up
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  Speaker 2: all around Nancy.
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  Speaker 4: They could not wait to get to the first step
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  Speaker 4: before they were celebrating. Guilty on all health Finally, for
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  Speaker 4: Abby and Libby, justice is served.
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  Speaker 2: A jury of five men seven women have returned a
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  Speaker 2: verdict of guilty. Richard Allen guilty on four charges and
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  Speaker 2: the murders of Abigail Abby Williams and Liberty Libby German,
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  Speaker 2: the fifty two year old Delphi man convicted. I saw
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  Speaker 2: when the defense attorneys were leaving the courthouse. People were asking, hey, hey,
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  Speaker 2: talk to us, talk to us. They got in their
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  Speaker 2: cars and they took off straight out to Dave Mac.
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  Speaker 2: Dave Mack, we've all been studying. The indictment. Is correct
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  Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong? Two charges of felony murder and
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  Speaker 2: two charges of malice murder?
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  Speaker 5: Is that correct, Dave Mac?
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  Speaker 6: That's absolutely correct. Guilty on all four charges.
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  Speaker 2: Abby thirteen, best friend Libby fourteen, going for a hike
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  Speaker 2: at the Monon high Bridge the noon February thirteen, two
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  Speaker 2: thousand and seventeen. Cheryl, can you believe it's taken this
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  Speaker 2: long frame veric to be handed down?
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  Speaker 4: You know it showed due diligence by this jury. Natty,
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  Speaker 4: When you were my prosecutor, you would tell me often
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  Speaker 4: every day of trial equals an hour of deliberation. Seems
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  Speaker 4: like to me they were right on time. They did
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  Speaker 4: their job as hard as it would, you know, was
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  Speaker 4: for them being away from their families. They did the
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  Speaker 4: work and we're seeing the results. Twelve people came to
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  Speaker 4: the same conclusion on the same day, at the same
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  Speaker 4: time for these two young victims.
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  Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks with us at the courthouse.
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  Speaker 2: Susan, as the hours went by, many people thought that
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  Speaker 2: today would either be a hung jury or time for
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  Speaker 2: a dynamite charge.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's what I thought i'd see Monday morning. When
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  Speaker 3: I came back this morning night, I just thought, Okay, hungary.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know why, my gut said that. These street
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  Speaker 3: from the sidewalk word lined here and I almost started
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  Speaker 3: crying when I heard the verdict, the scream kilty and
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  Speaker 3: there was a ruar of celebratory if you will, because
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  Speaker 3: of how long this has taken.
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  Speaker 2: You know, Susan Hendricks, What has the mood been in
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  Speaker 2: the courtroom when every day we would find out, well,
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  Speaker 2: they haven't reached a vertict. Today, they haven't reached a
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  Speaker 2: vertict today, they didn't reach it. At lunch, they didn't
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  Speaker 2: reach it. At the end of the day. We're going
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  Speaker 2: to come back over the weekend, We're going to come
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  Speaker 2: back on Veterans Day.
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  Speaker 1: What was the mood in the courtroom.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I'll just tell you one thing.
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  Speaker 3: The family looked and founded, depleted energy, gone exhaustion.
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  Speaker 7: Thinking the worst that we're going to have to do this.
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  Speaker 2: You mean, Abby and Libby's family, Abby and Libby's family.
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  Speaker 3: Yes the end, Richard Allen's family breaking down in tears.
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  Speaker 1: I know that they're all exhausted.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, Cheryl, when you and I would.
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  Speaker 2: Go through you know, winks and winks, a majority trial,
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  Speaker 2: it was like I'd be a zombie by the time
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  Speaker 2: I'd be so tired and exhausted at the time the
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  Speaker 2: verdict finally came in, and then when it would all
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  Speaker 2: be over, you just like practically fall over.
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  Speaker 1: I know.
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  Speaker 2: The families on both sides are just a raw emotion, Sheryl.
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  Speaker 4: No way around it, Nancy. For a month physically it's
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  Speaker 4: been exhausting, but the emotional toll is just off the charge.
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  Speaker 4: And again you've got two families that have been victimized,
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  Speaker 4: one family of the accused now convicted. You've got three
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  Speaker 4: families then have been on pins and needles and exhausted
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  Speaker 4: and emotionally stent. But again, todays we have two families
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  Speaker 4: that can start the process of healing, and you've got
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  Speaker 4: another family that just unfortunately has got to deal with
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  Speaker 4: the consequences of what their loved one did.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we've heard a lot of the evidence at trial,
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  Speaker 2: and we're going to analyze what we believe turned the
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  Speaker 2: jury to this verdict. Finally, for those of you just
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  Speaker 2: joining us justice for Abby and Libby, the jury has
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  Speaker 2: handed down a guilty verdict.
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  Speaker 1: Guilty on all counts.
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  Speaker 2: That's two counts of felony murder and two counts of
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  Speaker 2: malice or intentional murder.
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  Speaker 1: Now what does that mean. This has been charged in
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  Speaker 1: the alternative malice murder or murder.
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  Speaker 2: One Premeditated murder simply means that you had the intent
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  Speaker 2: to do the act, not necessarily to kill, but you
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  Speaker 2: have the intent to slice the girl's throats with a knife.
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  Speaker 2: Felony murder does not require any intent at all. It
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  Speaker 2: simply means that a death occurred during the commission of
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  Speaker 2: a felony. The felony here man would be kidnapping. Forcing
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  Speaker 2: the girls down the hill. No set degree or amount
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  Speaker 2: of asportation, as it is called under the.
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  Speaker 1: Law moving the victim.
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  Speaker 2: You can move them to another country, you can move
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  Speaker 2: them three inches. That still qualifies as asportation under the law.
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  Speaker 2: In this case, forcing them off the bridge, down the hill,
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  Speaker 2: across the creek is asportation. That equals kidnapping. They're not
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  Speaker 2: going to be sentenced to felony murder life or forty
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  Speaker 2: to sixty five and on malice murder consecutively. Those counts
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  Speaker 2: now merge. I believe in that jurisdiction, and there are
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  Speaker 2: mandatory sentences, but the sentencing has been set down. I
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  Speaker 2: believe Susan Hendricks for December twenty, and I believe the
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  Speaker 2: defense is going to call character witnesses.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, December twentieth, you said it right and self stunned
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  Speaker 3: about the verdict today. I swore it was going to
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  Speaker 3: be deadlocked. So that's what I heard December twentieth.
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  Speaker 2: It's the next So Cheryl McCollum very quickly, I want
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  Speaker 2: to analyze what we know. There has been so much division,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, Susan Dave mac jump in, Cheryl, I've
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  Speaker 2: heard so much about the town of Delphi being divided.
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  Speaker 2: I haven't necessarily seen any division when we were there.
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  Speaker 4: I've never seen division in this town on any topic,
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  Speaker 4: whether it was the investigation, fighting for justice, or every
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  Speaker 4: single day and night after court. What I saw when
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  Speaker 4: the town started putting signs up, even on business windows,
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  Speaker 4: they were solid in what they wanted, justice for Abby
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  Speaker 4: and Libby. And I'm going to tell you something, Nancy,
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  Speaker 4: when a lot of the information came out, and a
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  Speaker 4: lot of his confessions came out. I don't think it
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  Speaker 4: was lost on this community or this jury when he
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  Speaker 4: told in chronological order what happened that day, That to
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  Speaker 4: me was when the tide turned completely for the majority
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  Speaker 4: of people.
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  Speaker 5: Oh gosh.
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  Speaker 2: I remember sitting there with Susan Hendrix in the courtroom
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  Speaker 2: when the first psych walla came up, and she was
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  Speaker 2: didn't seem like she had a dog in a fight.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not saying she was disinterested, but she was very clinical,
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  Speaker 2: and that's kind of what you want in a shrink
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  Speaker 2: or a doctor or an expert on the stand. You
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  Speaker 2: don't want them to be swayed by opinion or conviction
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  Speaker 2: of their own. You want them to recount in a
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  Speaker 2: clinical manner what happened, and she did that on the stand.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, later it came out that she was a
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  Speaker 2: crime sleuth and it had been investigating the case on
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  Speaker 2: her own, but she took copious notes of everything. Richard
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  Speaker 2: Allen said, Susan Hendrix, do you remember you and I
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  Speaker 2: are watching the jury like hawks when she described what
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  Speaker 2: he said, including Susan Hendrix when he asked to use
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  Speaker 2: the phone to call his wife, and Wala left the
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  Speaker 2: room to give him pride to see she came back
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  Speaker 2: and he goes, I want to call her back. She
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  Speaker 2: doesn't believe me. She doesn't believe I kill Dabby and Libby.
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  Speaker 2: Do you remember that moment? And the jury was just
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  Speaker 2: sitting there staring at her. They weren't taking notes, they
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  Speaker 2: were just looking at her.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And those.
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  Speaker 7: When he told doctor Walla over and over and.
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  Speaker 3: Over again that he did this, and even like you said,
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  Speaker 3: mentioned that his wife didn't believe it, that his mother
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  Speaker 3: didn't believe it, and he sounded of sound mind. She
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  Speaker 3: said that she didn't believe that he was in.
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  Speaker 2: Psychosis crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 1: Another thing, Cheryl.
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  Speaker 5: Did you notice in court?
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  Speaker 1: And you too, Susan Dave mac jump in.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, we've been waiting for this day over seven years.
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  Speaker 2: This moment has been over seven years in the ma
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  Speaker 2: King since Abby and Libby disappeared on a simple walk
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  Speaker 2: Feb thirteen, two thousand and seven, investigators finding them both
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  Speaker 2: brutally murdered the next day, their bodies covered in branches
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  Speaker 2: in a wooded area near that high trestle bridge. I'm
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  Speaker 2: just thinking how the jury could look at him, Cheryl McCollum,
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  Speaker 2: because he looks so sane, you know, dressed up for
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  Speaker 2: the courtroom. He had those glasses perched up on his
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  Speaker 2: head that he never used. I never saw him use
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  Speaker 2: the glasses one time. And I mean to look at
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  Speaker 2: him talking to his lawyers asking hey, hammy cements, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and just looking when the door opened, you know, conversing
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  Speaker 2: back and forth, mouthing things to his wife.
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  Speaker 1: He was totally sane in the courtroom.
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  Speaker 2: So it's hard to reconcile what they were seeing with
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  Speaker 2: what the defense was saying.
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl.
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  Speaker 4: Again, I don't think they missed it. He's there taking no,
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  Speaker 4: he's talking to them, whispering, he's acknowledging what people are saying. Oftentimes,
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  Speaker 4: when somebody was testifying, he would.
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  Speaker 7: Be nodding yes.
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  Speaker 4: Sometimes he would almost scoff like, oh, that's ridiculous. Again,
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  Speaker 4: this is not somebody that they were portraying in this
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  Speaker 4: psychotic state. Again, Nancy, when you first sent me there,
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  Speaker 4: the thing that I remember most I was in the
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  Speaker 4: car with Kelsey. I was driving, and I said, please,
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  Speaker 4: don't anybody tell me how to get to the bridge.
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  Speaker 4: I want to see if I can find it, and
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  Speaker 4: I couldn't. There's no real signage, there's no way to
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  Speaker 4: get there. And I knew then, and I told everybody
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  Speaker 4: he's from here, He's right here, And I think that's something. Also,
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  Speaker 4: the jury knew this was not some transient person. This
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  Speaker 4: isn't somebody that they didn't zero in on. The jury
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  Speaker 4: took all the information, funneled it down into its pewett
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  Speaker 4: you know, purest form. It is Richard Allen.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: You just ask Joepan Dave.
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  Speaker 6: Yes, you can go a couple of things. One where
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  Speaker 6: you're talking about he seemed really sane in talking to
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  Speaker 6: his attorneys. Well, they turned the video away from the gallery,
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  Speaker 6: so we couldn't see what the jury saw where he
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  Speaker 6: was nude or partially nude and acting out in while
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  Speaker 6: he's being held in solitary, so we didn't get to
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  Speaker 6: see that. They did. They got to see this guy
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  Speaker 6: who's wacko nut job in jail and then seeing him
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  Speaker 6: over here acting normal. But the other thing was I
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  Speaker 6: was really concerned about the bullet, the whole the Cartri's thing,
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  Speaker 6: the one piece of actual physical evidence that tied Richard
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  Speaker 6: Allen to the crime scene. And you pointed out they're
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  Speaker 6: telling everybody. They're telling the jury to ignore the evidence.
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  Speaker 6: Don't even do that. And I thought as this went on,
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  Speaker 6: as the deliberations went on, I thought, oh my gosh,
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  Speaker 6: they're buying into this lie.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not just a bullet day. You're right.
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  Speaker 2: They were saying, Hey, I know he gave sixty plus confessions,
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  Speaker 2: but ignore that. It's like in the Wizard of a House.
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  Speaker 2: Don't look at the man behind the curtain. Just keep
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  Speaker 2: looking at the big scary image. And I'm pre checking
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  Speaker 2: up on the wall. Don't look at me, don't look
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  Speaker 2: at the bullet Forget about that.
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  Speaker 1: It's not real. Forget about all the confessions. They're not real.
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  Speaker 2: Forget about the fact that he was wearing the same
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  Speaker 2: clothes as the bridge guy and places himself at the
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  Speaker 2: scene of the murder in the timeframe the girls were murdered.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you're right, Dave mac don't look here, look there.
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  Speaker 2: Look at the screen of him naked and masturbating and
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  Speaker 2: spitting and eating paper and.
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  Speaker 5: Putting his head in the commo.
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  Speaker 1: Look at that, Look at that, Look at that. That's
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  Speaker 1: what the defense was, Susan Hendrix.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously clearly it didn't work. I know that
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  Speaker 3: on Saturday, the jerry wanted to hear Libby's phone again
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  Speaker 3: the recording, and they also wanted to hear an interview
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  Speaker 3: that Richard Allen did October twenty twenty two. Were they
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  Speaker 3: comparing the voice? I'm guessing yet maybe they had one
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  Speaker 3: holdout who wanted to make sure the voice.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Is Matt Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Tell me again exactly what they wanted to hear, because
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: you know, Cheryl, that would throw me into a fit.
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  Speaker 2: When the jury had a question during deliberations, I would
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: love it and hate it because I always believe that
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: the questions they asked, that they asked during deliberations tell
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: you where they're headed. Do you remember, Cheryl, whenever we
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: would get a question during jury deliberations, oh, my.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Stars, oh without question. And Nancy, that's what this did
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: for me. You and I talked just privately, and both
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: of us said, if they want to look at those
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  Speaker 4: videos of the interrogation, that to me was for the prosecution.
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  Speaker 4: There was no doubt in our minds at all.
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  Speaker 2: I felt that, yes, you and I discussed that, and
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  Speaker 2: I felt on the other side of the fence, cheryld
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  Speaker 2: that if they wanted to look at him behind bars
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: acting out, you know, having his alleged psychotic break, that
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: would be bad for the state. But if they wanted
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: to hear his confession or his statement, that would be
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: good for the state.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Now, So, Susan, Henrick's.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Guys joining us at the courthouse. He's been there throughout
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: the trial. Susan, tell me what it is. They wanted
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: to hear on Saturday exactly.
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  Speaker 3: They wanted to hear what was on Libby's recording from
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: that day February thirteen, twenty seventeen, which is now why
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: we say, guys, down the hill. We all knew that
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: we saw it during trial, the entire forty three seconds.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: They wanted to hear that. And they also wanted to
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: hear the interview with Detective Holman and with Richard Allen
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: when it got heated the day he was arrested. They
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: wanted to hear that man that was aggressive with Detective Holman,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: and they wanted to compare the voices.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: So on Libby's phone you can hear down the Hill,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: down the Hill, okay, And on the interview you can
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: hear Richard Allen speaking to Holman getting angry.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I bet you're right.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I bet you're right, and I wonder if they were
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: listening Susan Hendrix for anything he said in that interview
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: that corroborated things that only the killer would know, such
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: as what Susan yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And also I shut my eyes Nancy in court as
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: he was talking, and I thought, that's Bridge guy because
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: I heard him say the word down, down talking about
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: something else. I drove down there, sit down this stuff,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: and I just shut my eyes and I opened it
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: and I saw one of the defense at herneys quickly
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: look away from me. But I was saying, that's him,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: that's him, because he hasn't spoken a word. He whispers
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: to his attorneys. You never hear him talk beside Libby's phone.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: I believe he is Bridge guy. That's what they wanted
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: to prove, and they did it hey day.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Cheryl, you and Dave and I agreed weeks ago that
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: there's no way this guy's going to take the stand
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: because he doesn't want the jury to hear his voice anymore.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: He doesn't want to provide another voice exemplar. But Cheryl,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I remember when Susan and I were talking and she
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: was describing that moment that she was just telling you about,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: and she was Nancy, it's him. I closed my eyes.
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  Speaker 2: I listened to him on the video on the interview,
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  Speaker 2: I listened to the bridge guy, and I knew that
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: is him.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: That's right. And she told me the same thing. And
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you something, nemethw that I think is critical.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: If you remember back when Wayne Williams was on trial,
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: when people first saw him, they thought this young, pudgy,
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: week looking guy, like, there's no way he's this big killer.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: But when Jack Miler was able to make him freak
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: out on the stand and burst into anger, that was
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: a change for the entire jury. I think that's what
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: happened here. They saw that he was capable of just
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: having this rage, and I think that was important to see.
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  Speaker 2: Dave, Mike, what do you think held the jury up
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: this long? For all I know, nothing held them up.
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  Speaker 2: They could have, Dave, Dave and I love to talk
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: about her second guess like, what does this mean?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: It may mean.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing, Dave, Okay, But what do you think was the
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: sticking point?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: If there was one? It may have really just taken
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: this long to go through everything.
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: I think there were sticking points, Nancy. I think the
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: sixteen questions. You know that I asked you this early on.
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: The jury was allowed to ask questions of people testifying
• 18:21
  Speaker 6: after they were done. They asked more questions about the
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: bullet than anything else. They asked a total of sixteen
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: questions about that. So I was concerned there. Another one
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: I was really concerned with was the cell phone data,
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: the phone ringing and then immediately having this the three
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: point five plug going in, the headphone plug going into
• 18:42
  Speaker 6: the phone, and then being unplugged five hours later. I
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: thought that was incredibly fascinating testimony. However, I also knew
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: from another trial that this is something that can happen
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: with water or dirt, something getting in there, and because
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: of the location of where that phone was found under
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: Abby's body, it made perfectly good sense that water or dirt,
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: a spect could have gotten in there and actually have
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: triggered that thing. To point out that it says the
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: headphone jack is in the biggest problem I had, and
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: I'm sure the jury questioned, this is why did you
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: have this for seven plus years and now you're googling it?
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: Why couldn't you have some better testimony than that? And
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: I think they came back with, well, it was an
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: obvious thing. There was nothing to it, and that's why
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: they didn't dig deeper.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess when asked, all you've got for me
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: to cross on cross me with is a Google search,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And I guess one answer me yeah, because that's all
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: it took. Doc Right. But that said, Richard Allen's wife
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: has come out of the courthouse and stated, quote, this
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: isn't over at all.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: M What do you make of that season, Hendricks.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I think that the family believes he's innocent, and I
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: believe the attorneys made the family feel he was innocent
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: and gave them a shot. And this is coming up
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: on a peel and they're going to blame judge Golf
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: for a whole lot of things.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh gosh, yeah, they're already coming down on
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: the judge. I got to tell you something. When I
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: was in the courtroom, I locked eyes with a judge.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: That woman she is as tough as nails, and she
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: kept an iron clad rule.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: On that courtroom, and she should have. She would tolerate no.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Talking, no eating, no drinking, nothing from either side. I
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: did notice she was very, very kind and considerate to
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the jury, which reminds me of a lot of the
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: judges that I practiced in front of, but to everybody else,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I would I don't think she was too firm.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I think she was just right. Wouldn't you agree, Susan?
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, I respect her.
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: I know she was strict, But what she went through.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Before having to go to the Supreme Court, they wanted
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: her kicked off the attorneys. It was a circuit and
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: he said, uh uh, isn't happening with me? And I
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: believe she did an excellent job.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: You know, she really did.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I believe that she has indicated she told the defense
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: attorneys to go ahead and file their motion about third
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: party suspects.
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: If there was going to be an appeal.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: The attorneys are already claiming the judges at fault by
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: not allowing them to bring up and I'm telling you
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: what they wanted to bring up, which I think was
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: a poor choice odinism. Oh, I mean, yeah, what they
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're going to convince a jury some thor
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: worshippers did this made a blood sacrifice like that?
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Kook on YouTube.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Said no, no, no, Dury would have ever believe that. But
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: what about Cheryl, the guy who passed away? He's not
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: there to defend himself anymore, he would have been the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: perfect scapegoat for the defense.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: Ron Logan is not there to defend himself all for
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: an up sacrifice that has never been done ever with
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: two young teenage white females was ridiculous. But Nancy, I
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: don't want to gloss over.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Wait, hold on, I want to clear up what you
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: just said. The reason you said it was ridiculous that
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Odiness would kill two white teens is because Oldiness in
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: certain areas, Odinism has been mixed with the Erya nation
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and quite supremacists. So if they killed anybody, it would
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: not be.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: A victim like Abby and Libby.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: They'd picked somebody else that they hated, Right, is that
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: why you're saying that.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: That's exactly why I'm saying it. Plus, it's never been done,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: so when you get this down to the mass of it,
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: it was never gonna hold. It was never gonna stick.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: But I would like to address something Susan just said.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: When his wife comes out and says this isn't over,
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: let me tell you something. She had the opportunity to
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: get on that stand attacked him and to make us
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: understand he didn't do this. She could have told us
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: what he did on the night of the thirteenth, how
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: it was Valentine's Day for the two of them. She
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: didn't do that. She had a chance to help save him,
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: and she chose not to do it. And when she
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: found out that not only was he at the trails,
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: he was on the bridge, her first statement to him was,
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: you never told me you were on the bridge. She
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: didn't want to take the stand because she knew she
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: couldn't because she recognized him. She recognized the clothes and
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: the walk and the boys. She knew not only that
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: he was there at that exact time. Keep in mind,
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Richard Allen never saw another man. He only saw girls.
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: He never even saw the.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: Women that saw him. She knew, She knew what happened
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: when the police came to her house, She knew what
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: happened when they came the second time that she didn't
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: call them, and she knew what happened when they showed.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Up with a warrant.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Susan Hendrix, when was the first confession taken?
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: April April twenty twenty two, April early April twenty twenty two.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: And I have an entire timeline in my six notebooks
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: of when Oh gosh, yeah. But when he did first
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: confess he was a found mind that came first before this.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: Elegy COVID.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: Let me ask you, Dave Mac.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: We have been coming through all of the fantastical theories
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and I was really worried the jury might latch onto
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: one of these if if there was a scentilla of
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: evidence put forward about it. But why are people so
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: convinced that he's innocent. I mean, the crazy theories online, Dave.
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: Mac are horrible. It just shows you that some people
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: have too much time on their hands, and they couldn't
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: They could not fathom that a single person would be
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: that evil to take on two children and convince them
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: at gunpoint to go down the hill and do as
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: they were told. He picked the perfect victims. I hate
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: to say that, but he picked two girls that were
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: still girls, and they were told by an adult man,
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: I got a gun, I'm gonna use it, go down here,
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: do what I tell you to do. And they bought
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: into it because of some bad digital camera footage that
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: they saw online. By the way, the people who come
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: up with these crazy conspiracies, they don't ever actually see evidence.
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: What they see is things online they don't even know
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: what they're watching online has been fixed by somebody else
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: who's messing with them. I'm shocked that we didn't hear
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: the defense throw up more of a you know, Keegan
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: Klein defense, the Ronald Logan thing. I'm surprised. I'm wondering, Nancy,
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: And this is my question for you. Was the defense
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: laying groundwork so that, if convicted, Richard Allen could come
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: back and say, my defense didn't do what they should
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: have done. Here are some other avenues that should have
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: been explored, and they weren't.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you're right. But I'm sure I got to
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: tell you something. I really have faith in this judge.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I do just listening to her demeanor on the bench,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the way she handled everything that happened from the very beginning,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: all the pre trial motions, you name it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: She has been very consistent. Now, the law varies.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: From jurisdiction of jurisdiction, state to state, but generally speaking,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: one thing is true. All three of you please jump in.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: If you have a sentilla of evidence that someone else
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: did the deed, you can bring on third party guilt.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: For instance, Ron Logan, it was his property didn't he
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: lie about his alibi, Susan Hudricks.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: He lied because he was on probation for drinking and
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: driving exactly.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So that to me, using the fact that he lied,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: using the fact that it was his property, using the
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: fact that he has gone on to the hereafter and
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: cannot defend himself would have been a perfect capegoat. They
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: did not do that. They went with the odness theory.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Now to bring in a third party guilt theory, some
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: other dude did it.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: You have to have some evidence.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Right after they brought it up again the other day
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: and yes, I kept talking.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: About odenism, and everybody online was like, stop talking about it.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: She's ruled out odenism. Like no, no, she's ruled it out.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: But if they can get in facts to support it,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: they can then.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Bring it in.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying is you can't say, Cheryl, well, I
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: heard about a child killer out in wy and maybe
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: he came to Indiana because it's the same mo. Maybe
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: it's him, all right, maybe it is Maybe little green
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: men from Mars did it too, and then beamed right
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: back up. Yes it's possible, but you have to lay
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: some factual foundation. And that was not laid for odinism, Nancy.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: But they didn't give up. They tried again last week
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: and she said, for the thousandth time, no, unless there's proofs.
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: Of course, the jury was not never Nancy.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: The two days that I was sitting there in court,
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: it was evident that this jury was sophisticated. They were
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: not in any way gonna be snowed by that defense.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: They didn't have a choice but to drop it. Whether
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: the judge said they could bring it or not, they
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: weren't going to buy it. The second thing that I
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: noticed again when they didn't bring up ron Logan, it's because,
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: if you remember, the FBI even served a warrant, it
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: didn't pan out. They couldn't connect you. So, like you
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: used always tell me, follow the evidence, not the theory.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know, I don't remember ever saying that, but
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: if you sounds really smart. So if you're gonna attribute
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: that to me, I'm really happy, Susan buckle your seatpeal.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: People are already online screaming this was a setup.
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: Jesus lot of that's.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Who I just ran into Libby's. I've just ran into
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Libby's favorite teacher, and I saw him in court one
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: day when the phone call was played, and he just
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: hugged me and said, don't I'm gonna cry right next
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: to me. So that's really what this is about.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: It's like, so this is what I know about sentencing. Guys.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: You know, in many, many jurisdictions, a murder charge is
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: a mandatory life sentence and you can then try to
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: get the death penalty or life without parole.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, here, that's not true.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: The sentence is anywhere from forty five to sixty five
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: years behind bars. There is an advisory sentence of fifty
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: five years. We know that the sentencing is set for
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: December twenty. We know at that time that the defense
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: is planning to bring on character, evidence of good character.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I can only imagine what is the state going to
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: bring on. I guess the heinous nature of the crimes
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: number one. But what do you think?
• 30:25
  Speaker 8: I think maybe they just play his voice again, they
• 30:28
  Speaker 8: played Libby. I know Nick mcleland. The last words out
• 30:31
  Speaker 8: of his mouth were maybe always wanted to solve crimes.
• 30:34
  Speaker 8: She did her own?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: What about it? Cheryl?
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: I believe that this judge is going to give the
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: maximum because the prosecution is going to lay out that
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: a fourteen year old girl gave us the best evidence possible,
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: which was video and audio of her killer and with
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: her friend that don't leave me.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: She didn't, So, Susan, has the death penalty ever been
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: on the table?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Does Indiana even have the death penalty?
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, Indiana does. They have been administered in a long time.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: It was something to do with the medicines and the manufacturer.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: It's never been on the table though I have several times,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: and no it has not.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: They do have the death penalty, but this is not
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: a death penalty case.
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: Hmm.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, and let.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Me tell you if it hasn't been tried as a
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: death penalty, that's not an option at sentencing. When you're
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: trying a case is a death penalty case, you have
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to quote Witherspoon the jury and question the girars about
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: their beliefs on the death penalty. That did not happen
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: in this case. This is not a death penalty case. However,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: the judge can steal sentence to the maximum sentence. You know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I'm very curious, guys, why is there so much hate online,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: especially but about this case. What do you think, Sharon?
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, you and I have been under oh my goodness,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I thought they were going to drag me out of
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Target the other day and put me on a stake
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: in burme Nancy.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of people that are hiding
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: behind the keyboard number one. I don't think they really
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: believe he's not guilty. I think they're just doing it
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: to antagonize people and be hateful. And I told you before.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: When you have somebody that has just held been on
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: making somebody miserable and hurting them, and they won't give
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: their real name, and they won't you know, have more
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: than two followers, they are baseless, faithless, factless cowards. And
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: for me, none of those people factor here. What factors
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: are the real people that have been fighting? Like you, you
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: sent me to Delphi before anybody had ever heard of Delphi.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: I didn't know where it was that. I went to
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: Purdue for a while. So to me, there are people
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: that have been advocating for this family, like Susan Hendrix
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: that left her own family for a month. It has
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: been there every day.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, now wait a minute, I want to I want
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: to say something follow up on what you're saying, Cheryl. Guys,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Susan left her family and Susan, your son.
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: What was he saying the.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Other day about murder? You tell me?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: She's like, please, don't tell that to the other moms.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: She said second grade and he said, mom, he has
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: a baby voice.
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: Still I love it.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: And he just said, mom, guess what. My friend's mom
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: came in to talk, and she writes poetry books. And
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I turned to my friend Henry, and I said, my
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: mom writes books.
• 33:34
  Speaker 7: And he said what kind of books?
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: And he said, don't tell anybody murder. And Henry said
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: to him, I think I'd like a murder book. I thought,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, therapy's company.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot more fun to read about than
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: in poetry, right, yeah, not gosh, oh gosh.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: It's just every day I've been on speaker.
• 33:52
  Speaker 7: But I had to be here. I wanted to be here.
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: It's been so full of raw emotion every single day,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: the ups and the downs, the ups and the downs.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: And I got to tell you, guys, when I saw
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: the victim's family in person again.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Last week when I was.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: At the trial, their faces were just like stricken, kind
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: of like pinched.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: And nothing had even happened.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Remember, Susan, it was first thing in the morning and
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: they were just you know, oh my heart, they just
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: looked raw, Susan, just raw.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: But I saw their eyes light up when you were there.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: You know what you signify, Nancy, not only a wonderful
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: person to them, but that their girls matter.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: You know what we haven't talked about.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: We haven't talked about Libby and Abbey. And I remember
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Lucy and John David at this age and I just
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: cannot imagine imagine someone doing this to them.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, Cheryl, you've raised a boy and a girl.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Remember that tender sweet age just before they turn into.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: A full on crazy team.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: You know, it all happens when they're about sixteen, everything
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: goes haywire. But they're half little girl and half teen
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: and everything is new and wonderful and they always smell
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: like bubblegum and strawberries and oh gosh.
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: You know, Cheryl, what.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: Are your thoughts, Nancy. I had a chance to hang
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: out with Kelsey and my daughter Caroline. And Caroline at
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: the time we first met, Kelsey was Libby's same age,
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: and I have watched them the last seven years become friends,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: and every single time they hang out, I can't help
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: but think for kelseye. That's what it should be, you know,
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: the two of them laughing, the two of them joking,
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: the two of them wanting to go get lipstick and
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: bubble gum, at the same time about movies, talking about boys,
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: talking about what they would name their own babies. I've
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: watched this and I watched this friendship. But at the
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: same time every year fifteen, seventeen, nineteen, now Caroline's twenty one,
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: Libby should be twenty one. So I watched them and
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: I think that's what could have been, That's what.
• 36:26
  Speaker 7: Should happen to it.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: I know I would at Libby's grave days right before
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I heard that a verdict about and I put the
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: bracelet down that to today to day, and then heard
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: verdict and I just was looking at her grades stage
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: with her faith on there, and it said everything she'd
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: loved to do. Short, that's over. These girls are not
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: coming back. That DOWNPI will never be the same right now,
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: should have the sidewalk. I'm looking across at a purple
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: and peel living around a light pole and outside of
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: the courthouse where I spent day after day after day
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: after day. But it's not about me. It's about these families.
• 37:00
  Speaker 7: They go home.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Now they have a verdict, they don't have the laughter.
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: In the house.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: That's forever gone, forever taken, you know, Dave Matt.
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: It just.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Now is the time I believe the victims' families need
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: us the most because until the trial, First of all,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I had to get through the funeral, the shock of
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: what had, the shock of them being passed away, then
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: the shot of discovering they were murdered. You know, first
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: they were missing, then they find out they passed away,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Then they find out the cod was their throats were split,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: they were murdered.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Then the search, the search for.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: The killer completely consumed. Remember they would come to Crime
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Con every year, and we would do show after show
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: after show, trying and trying and trying to get closer
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: and closer to who did this thing. Then there's a suspect,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: then there's an arrest, Then there's the wait for the trial.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Then there's a trial. Now the trial is over.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Now what Now they are left with the reality that
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: the girls are gone and that empty house is forever
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: the mission is over, Dave Matt.
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: This is where the grief they'll actually be able to
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: mourn now, and this is you know, Nancy I told
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: a friend of mine, they're talking about the case, and
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: I said, you know, the one thing I got in
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: this because we've been covering it since it happened, and
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: I said, the one thing I noticed in the families
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: is that they felt in you, Nancy, that they had
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: somebody that cared, because after a while, people get tired
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: of not hearing an answer, you know, because there was
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: no suspect. There was this question after question, and it's
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: like you were giving them that hope that this is
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: not going to go away. We will find who did this.
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: And then you mentioned the arrest and then all of
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: the stuff that happened leading up to trial. And right now,
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: while we all cheer, you know what, the rest of
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: us go on with our lives. But they go back
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: home just to a silent house. But you know, it's
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: not a victory for them. They lost Abby and Libby.
• 39:06
  Speaker 6: They lost two children who should be young adults now.
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: And all I could remember looking at their pictures is
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: when I would take my daughter Hannah to the roller
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: skating rink when she was that age and her friends,
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: and I'm looking at them and I'm thinking I would
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: I don't know how I would go on and that's
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: what they're now going to face with because the solution
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: has happened. The answer is there, the conviction has happened,
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: and after sentencing, to be honest with you, I mean,
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: if he serves consecutive sentences, he gets one hundred and
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: thirty years. Their daughters are still gone, their granddaughter's still gone,
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: and they're not coming back.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Today is a day to sigh a sigh of relief.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: The trial is over. Justice was served. And I remember
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: every time I would get a verdict, a guilty verdict
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: and a murder case, people thought, oh, where are you
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: going to celebrate? Where are you going to go? It
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: was no celebration. I know that's hard for a lot
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: of people to understand. It's a sigh of relief. It's
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: not a time to celebrate and be giblant because you steal.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Everybody leaves that courtroom with a broken heart. But this
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: at least puts a band aid. Doesn't heal it. It
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: can never be healed, but at least, for now, anyway,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: a band aid on their hearts. Dave mac Cheryl McCollum,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Susan Henrix, Thank you, gals, I'll see you tomorrow.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: On Crime Stories, goodbye friends.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you all for enjoying us today.