Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 2/4/26: Melinda Gates Blasts Bill Over Epstein, ICE Victims Testify, US Shoots Iranian Drone

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2/4/26: Melinda Gates Blasts Bill Over Epstein, ICE Victims Testify, US Shoots Iranian Drone · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. I was last week.
0:37
Speaker 4: Last week.
0:38
Speaker 5: It was so sad without your end, but we all
0:40
Speaker 5: managed to get through. I think more people are curious
0:42
Speaker 5: how you were last week.
0:43
Speaker 3: Was good time, Good time was had.
0:46
Speaker 6: Apparently some Epstein's news dropped while I was gone here.
0:50
Speaker 5: Ryan was in Cancun at Fish shows as the Epstein
0:53
Speaker 5: files were being released.
0:54
Speaker 4: I felt bad texting you, Oh, I.
0:56
Speaker 3: Was loving it.
0:57
Speaker 6: I was loving it. It added to it, it did, Yeah,
1:00
Speaker 6: I mean, because this is.
1:02
Speaker 5: It's not a tropical vacation without learn for people who
1:06
Speaker 5: are genuinely curious about how the world works and who
1:10
Speaker 5: the people are who run this world.
1:12
Speaker 3: This is like, this is the moment that the window
1:17
Speaker 3: is actually open.
1:18
Speaker 4: It's so unbelievable.
1:19
Speaker 6: And that's and Mac was just telling us that we've
1:23
Speaker 6: had hundreds of new premium subscribers over the last couple
1:27
Speaker 6: of days, and I think that's because we've been covering
1:31
Speaker 6: this honestly from the beginning, and it's such a disorienting
1:38
Speaker 6: mess of a story because there's so much active disinformation
1:43
Speaker 6: that gets pumped out into it. Yes, and you want
1:46
Speaker 6: to know what's true, what's not, what matters, what doesn't,
1:49
Speaker 6: and like we're trying to actually be honest about it
1:52
Speaker 6: not and we don't care who it offends.
1:55
Speaker 5: Right, not trying to smooth the edges of the story
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Speaker 5: out or anything like that. So you can get a
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Speaker 4: Appreciate it. If you do, you can go sign up there.
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Speaker 5: Otherwise, just follow us, you know, subscribe on YouTube to
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Speaker 5: get us in your feed and wherever you get your podcasts.
2:11
Speaker 5: It's very helpful. But this has been to your point
2:13
Speaker 5: of watershed. We yeah, I mean it's been like we've
2:16
Speaker 5: got the drip drip coming out for a couple of
2:18
Speaker 5: years now, but nothing like the geyser of the last
2:22
Speaker 5: several days.
2:23
Speaker 6: And while we're on the subject of gratitude for viewers
2:27
Speaker 6: who are making this possible, I was thinking, you know,
2:30
Speaker 6: Mexico watching fish, it's a good time for contemplation, and
2:34
Speaker 6: I was thinking about how last year we didn't go
2:37
Speaker 6: to the show because my wife had just gotten out
2:40
Speaker 6: of the hospital with complications from chemo, which is damn
2:44
Speaker 6: near killed her. And to think that now, like a
2:47
Speaker 6: year later, we're back on the beach and like celebrating it,
2:53
Speaker 6: and like throughout that whole thing, you guys were so
2:56
Speaker 6: cool about like missing shows, being late like that was
3:01
Speaker 6: that was really that was really moving. So I just
3:05
Speaker 6: really appreciate that and also my mother in law to
3:07
Speaker 6: like watch the kids the whole time.
3:09
Speaker 3: Big thank you to Virginia.
3:11
Speaker 6: That's so so And now I'm recharged ready to go
3:17
Speaker 6: get these Epstein goons.
3:18
Speaker 4: So in a way, it was great timing perfect. You
3:20
Speaker 4: were recharging your battery just as the world needed our
3:23
Speaker 4: super soldier Ryan grim Most.
3:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we have said we have a lot to
3:27
Speaker 5: get through today. We're going to start actually with Epstein
3:30
Speaker 5: because the drip drip is continuing. But also what's important
3:34
Speaker 5: is putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and there
3:36
Speaker 5: are a few people.
3:37
Speaker 4: Better Quip to do that than Ryan Grimm. So we're
3:40
Speaker 4: going to.
3:40
Speaker 3: Start loving reporting on this.
3:42
Speaker 6: I've been addicted, you've been You've been going through it
3:46
Speaker 6: like a pro.
3:47
Speaker 4: It's addicting.
3:47
Speaker 5: I mean, the Epstein library is addicting on the DOJ's website,
3:51
Speaker 5: which is a weird thing. You don't not many people
3:53
Speaker 5: get addicted to the DOJ's website.
3:54
Speaker 3: But you can also now go through jmail.
3:56
Speaker 6: We have all of the latest volume eleven up on
4:00
Speaker 6: Gmail dot world, which is project with drop side.
4:02
Speaker 4: So I find that even more addicting because it's like
4:05
Speaker 4: being in the sims.
4:05
Speaker 6: Right and you can and you can then like see
4:08
Speaker 6: the ones that came right before it, and you can
4:10
Speaker 6: put it in time and yes, the articles it links
4:12
Speaker 6: to links to the articles.
4:14
Speaker 5: It's yeah, it's a technological feat. It's very very cool. Yeah,
4:17
Speaker 5: so folks should also go there.
4:18
Speaker 6: If we put we put in for a pulletzer like
4:20
Speaker 6: they wanted to do it. I was like, you want
4:22
Speaker 6: to understand that the pulitzer is housed in Columbia, right, Like, we're.
4:26
Speaker 3: Not getting a pullet. We deserve one. Yes, you like,
4:30
Speaker 3: if it was a fair fight, we would get one. Yeah.
4:32
Speaker 6: It's the most innovative journalistic project I think ever on
4:35
Speaker 6: a massive data set. Uh, and it's the biggest story
4:38
Speaker 6: in the world, so it deserves it. I was like,
4:41
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if you followed the news around Columbia
4:44
Speaker 6: University lately.
4:45
Speaker 7: It's not happening.
4:45
Speaker 3: Don't think they're doing it in Epstein Pulleitzer.
4:48
Speaker 5: No, not to drop side, definitely, not to drop side.
4:53
Speaker 3: It's free to apply. I was like, look done hard
4:55
Speaker 3: to apply.
4:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, that's true. A lot of new details to
4:58
Speaker 5: go through. So we'll start with We're then going to
5:01
Speaker 5: have Van Lathan join us once again because Renee Goods
5:04
Speaker 5: family testified in Curing yesterday.
5:06
Speaker 4: We have clips from that.
5:07
Speaker 5: We're going to talk about it with Van and just
5:10
Speaker 5: Democrats on the ending of the guard. So the government
5:13
Speaker 5: shutdown technically ended yesterday. The quote unquote partial government shutdown
5:16
Speaker 5: technically ended yesterday.
5:17
Speaker 4: You probably didn't notice. Nobody noticed even in DC, nobody noticed.
5:21
Speaker 3: Cruise right through customs yep.
5:23
Speaker 4: Oh good point.
5:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we will be talking to Van about DEM's
5:29
Speaker 5: decision when it came to reopening the government, having he
5:32
Speaker 5: joined with Republicans that sort of thing.
5:33
Speaker 4: And the United States shot down in Iranian drone.
5:36
Speaker 5: Yesterday, So we're going to bring the latest on that
5:39
Speaker 5: story as well. Elon Musk's X offices are being raided
5:43
Speaker 5: in Paris. Musk is now in a war of words
5:47
Speaker 5: with Spain and this is related to teen social media bans,
5:52
Speaker 5: but the raid is also related to some of those
5:55
Speaker 5: horrible images that were being created on X not You probably.
6:00
Speaker 6: Remember when when Grock went completely Yeah, yep, groc did
6:05
Speaker 6: his thing.
6:05
Speaker 5: We have a wild clip of Chuck Schumer about Israel,
6:09
Speaker 5: and Gaza will break down the latest new drop site
6:12
Speaker 5: reporting to talk about there, and then the Blowbok the
6:14
Speaker 5: blowback guys are here to talk about Cuba.
6:16
Speaker 3: They were just in Cuba. Yeah.
6:18
Speaker 6: Uh, Trump just put out an executive order declaring Cuba
6:23
Speaker 6: to be like the worst of the worst of the worst.
6:26
Speaker 4: Did that happen while they were there?
6:28
Speaker 3: They did?
6:29
Speaker 6: And uh, he's pressuring Mexico not to sell oil to
6:33
Speaker 6: Cuba because somehow it is the business of the United
6:35
Speaker 6: States who Mexico sells oil to and who Cuba buys
6:39
Speaker 6: it from uh. They're trying to completely.
6:43
Speaker 3: Send Cuba back to the seventeenth century.
6:46
Speaker 6: So we're going to talk to Brendan and know about
6:49
Speaker 6: what conditions are.
6:50
Speaker 3: Like there and what the what the politics are. Yeah,
6:52
Speaker 3: now and then and.
6:54
Speaker 6: Negotiations between the US and Iran, which most people suspect
6:59
Speaker 6: the US is just buying so they can get all
7:00
Speaker 6: their assets in place and then launch an attack. But
7:04
Speaker 6: they have moved to Oman at the request of Iran.
7:07
Speaker 6: They moved from Turkey to Oman. We might even get
7:10
Speaker 6: Kushner involved in them. So we'll talk about them.
7:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, lots to go through, all right, Let's start then
7:15
Speaker 5: with Jeffrey Epstein. Melinda Gates was on NPR and asked
7:20
Speaker 5: the most uncomfortable question anyone could ever ask an ex
7:24
Speaker 5: wife you.
7:26
Speaker 6: Married one that an ex wife is probably not that
7:28
Speaker 6: unhappy to answer.
7:29
Speaker 5: It's a little bit better than being Bill Gates's current wife,
7:32
Speaker 5: as she basically says in the clip. She's asked about
7:35
Speaker 5: the detailed Crystal and saga covered where in the files.
7:38
Speaker 5: This was in an Epstein draft to himself. Those drafts
7:42
Speaker 5: are a very bizarre hot to send. Yeah, hot, too
7:47
Speaker 5: hot for send, But it was the drafts are a
7:50
Speaker 5: very strange window into Jeffrey Epstein's mind. And in a
7:53
Speaker 5: draft you may remember, he mentioned Bill Gates, a Russian prostitute,
7:59
Speaker 5: and procuring four Bill Gates the type of medication he
8:04
Speaker 5: would need to slip into Melinda's diet somewhere or another
8:09
Speaker 5: to prevent her from getting an STD. Yeah, so Melinda
8:13
Speaker 5: Gates was asked about this, let's roll the club.
8:16
Speaker 8: I think we're having a reckoning as a society, right,
8:22
Speaker 8: No girl, no girl should ever be put in the
8:27
Speaker 8: situation that they were put in by Epstein and whatever
8:33
Speaker 8: was going on with all of the various people around him.
8:37
Speaker 8: No girl, I mean, it's just it's beyond heartbreaking, right.
8:42
Speaker 8: I remember being those ages those girls were. I remember
8:45
Speaker 8: my daughter's being those ages. Right. So for me, it's
8:51
Speaker 8: personally hard whenever those details come up, right because brings
8:56
Speaker 8: back memories of some very very painful times in my marriage.
9:00
Speaker 8: But I have moved on from that. I purposely pushed
9:04
Speaker 8: it away and I moved on. I'm in a really unexpected,
9:10
Speaker 8: beautiful place in my life. So whatever questions remain there
9:14
Speaker 8: of what I don't can't even begin to know all
9:17
Speaker 8: of it. Those questions are for those people and form
9:19
Speaker 8: even my ex husband. They need to answer to those things,
9:22
Speaker 8: not me well, and I am so happy to be
9:26
Speaker 8: away from all the muck.
9:28
Speaker 9: The emails in the files suggest that Bill Gates had
9:31
Speaker 9: additional affairs, and that he tried to get medication to
9:34
Speaker 9: treat a sexually transmitted infection, and that he was going
9:38
Speaker 9: to give you the medicine without you knowing. His representative
9:42
Speaker 9: has said all of this is false. It is not
9:45
Speaker 9: on you to have to respond to the details of
9:48
Speaker 9: that alleged behavior. But I wonder what your dominant emotion
9:54
Speaker 9: is when you read these news articles with these details.
10:01
Speaker 8: Sad just unbelievable sadness. Unbelievable sadness. Right, and again I'm
10:13
Speaker 8: able to take my own sadness and look at those
10:16
Speaker 8: young girls and say, my god, how did they have
10:21
Speaker 8: How did that happen to those girls?
10:22
Speaker 10: Right?
10:23
Speaker 8: And so for me, it's just sadness, sadness. For you know,
10:27
Speaker 8: I've left, I had, I left my marriage, I had
10:30
Speaker 8: to leave my marriage. I wanted to leave my marriage.
10:32
Speaker 4: I had to leave the.
10:33
Speaker 8: Fact I felt I needed to eventually leave the foundation.
10:35
Speaker 5: So it's just sad and ren that's pretty close. To
10:38
Speaker 5: confirmation from me Linda Gates. The divorce itself was related
10:42
Speaker 5: to the Epstein allegations with Bill Gates.
10:45
Speaker 4: And they're not allegations.
10:46
Speaker 5: I mean, it's the confirmed relationship between Bill Gates and
10:49
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously there are all kinds of different allegations
10:52
Speaker 5: that circulate around that, but it's not an allegation that
10:55
Speaker 5: they that they had a significant relationship. I'm not insignificant relationship.
11:00
Speaker 5: And in that clip, the way, the question was asked
11:04
Speaker 5: by NPR, what is your dominant emotion when you hear that?
11:08
Speaker 5: As opposed to did your ex husband secretly drug you too?
11:12
Speaker 4: Out of love?
11:13
Speaker 3: Of course she wouldn't know.
11:14
Speaker 4: I guess she wouldn't. But what is your dominant emotion
11:18
Speaker 4: when you hear that clip?
11:20
Speaker 3: Maybe sad too? I'm in anger? Like what what is comebag?
11:25
Speaker 4: I know?
11:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know she has said that she told
11:31
Speaker 6: him this. By the way, this guy is a creep,
11:34
Speaker 6: so like she didn't see him, you know, doing whatever
11:38
Speaker 6: the satanic stuff they're doing, but being around him, she
11:43
Speaker 6: was like, he's a creep. You should not be around him.
11:46
Speaker 6: And if you're keeping around him, like this is not
11:48
Speaker 6: going to work. And it's indicative of your character as well.
11:52
Speaker 6: She was dead on. From other people who have met him,
11:54
Speaker 6: I've gotten people have said the same thing that like
11:58
Speaker 6: your creep dar like just went up in immediately, and
12:01
Speaker 6: that goes sadly to the next guy we got to
12:04
Speaker 6: talk about. We can put up c three here, one
12:10
Speaker 6: of the for a certain subset of like gen X,
12:15
Speaker 6: particular left wing people. This one has been just a
12:19
Speaker 6: body blow.
12:20
Speaker 4: The Woodstock ninety nine crowd.
12:22
Speaker 6: Yeah, put up if you put up a three, and
12:24
Speaker 6: before that, you know everybody everybody older than that too, Yeah,
12:29
Speaker 6: put up a three. So this is an email and
12:32
Speaker 6: people have tried to do some some cope around it, saying, well,
12:36
Speaker 6: it's not from Noam Chomsky's email, so it's maybe it's
12:41
Speaker 6: not him, and basically what he what?
12:44
Speaker 3: What?
12:44
Speaker 6: The one, the one that's circulating comes from one that
12:48
Speaker 6: Nome did send directly to Jeffrey Epstein, and Epstein took
12:53
Speaker 6: out some personal stuff in it and then sent it
12:56
Speaker 6: to another friend saying this is this is the advice
12:59
Speaker 6: that I got from Nome.
13:00
Speaker 3: Now the personal.
13:02
Speaker 6: Stuff I think actually plays into this, and maybe we
13:05
Speaker 6: can have glenn On and we can talk about this.
13:09
Speaker 3: But let's we can move on from that for now.
13:12
Speaker 6: But basically what he tells Epstein says, I'm getting all
13:15
Speaker 6: of his terrible press for all of these women accusing
13:19
Speaker 6: me of abusing them.
13:23
Speaker 3: What should you know? What should I do? And this
13:26
Speaker 3: is this is twenty nineteen.
13:28
Speaker 6: This is deep into me too, and it's I believe
13:33
Speaker 6: this is long after the Miami Herald has done the
13:37
Speaker 6: investigation into the.
13:40
Speaker 3: Way that.
13:42
Speaker 6: What he did in Florida was way worse than he
13:45
Speaker 6: ended up getting charged with, because what he did was
13:48
Speaker 6: extremely clever for his own rehabilitation. There were dozens of,
13:53
Speaker 6: as we've reported, dozens of victims that they could have
13:56
Speaker 6: chosen to charge him with. Yes, some as low as
13:58
Speaker 6: like fourteen. He got them to make the one charge
14:04
Speaker 6: somebody who was seventeen, which was very smart on his
14:08
Speaker 6: part because what did he immediately start doing. It was
14:11
Speaker 6: a prostitution situation. She told me she was eighteen. Turns
14:16
Speaker 6: out she was seventeen and a half, and so many
14:20
Speaker 6: people in the elite world were willing to be like,
14:23
Speaker 6: you know what, hey, an age of consents at sixteen
14:27
Speaker 6: in some states and so and also he hangs out
14:31
Speaker 6: with the Secretary of State and former presidents and he's
14:34
Speaker 6: on the board of this and that, and he's a billionaire.
14:38
Speaker 6: Sure it's fine. But by twenty nineteen, so even if
14:43
Speaker 6: you like allow for that that cleverness that he was
14:45
Speaker 6: able to pull off with the cost in and the
14:48
Speaker 6: Bush administration, by twenty nineteen people knew the contours of
14:54
Speaker 6: that deal and the context of it. And so what
14:56
Speaker 6: Noam Chelnsey basically tells him is do not respond it all. Like,
15:01
Speaker 6: if you respond at all, it's just going to give
15:04
Speaker 6: the vultures. He says, you know what the vultures dearly
15:07
Speaker 6: want is a public response, which then provides a public
15:09
Speaker 6: opening for an onslaught of venomous attacks, many from just
15:13
Speaker 6: publicity seekers and cranks of all sort. And he goes
15:16
Speaker 6: on and on and so to see, because you know,
15:21
Speaker 6: some of us had our cope was Chompsky responds to
15:25
Speaker 6: everybody he has, He emails Everybody'll like, he'll speak wherever,
15:31
Speaker 6: He'll take any interview request. He has this voracious curiosity
15:35
Speaker 6: about humanity. Epstein was funding MIT. Obviously, Chompsky wants to
15:40
Speaker 6: do what he can to like get funding from my
15:42
Speaker 6: t so you could like you can get there and
15:44
Speaker 6: be like, look, but to see the level of emotion
15:48
Speaker 6: that he had in his relationship with Epstein, knowing that
15:55
Speaker 6: so many other people who met him or like, this
15:56
Speaker 6: guy's creep. It's uh sitting. It doesn't mean that he
16:01
Speaker 6: participated in any of the any of the sordid stuff,
16:07
Speaker 6: which and I've been consistent on that, Like people want
16:12
Speaker 6: to cancel every single person who's on an email with Epstein,
16:15
Speaker 6: but I don't think that's fair.
16:16
Speaker 3: He emailed thousands of people.
16:19
Speaker 6: The people that need to be face accountability and shame
16:22
Speaker 6: are the ones that participated, knew about and didn't say
16:25
Speaker 6: anything or knew about and participated in what he was doing.
16:29
Speaker 3: We know, at least Chomsky had a.
16:32
Speaker 6: Very close relationship with him, and we know that he
16:34
Speaker 6: was a creep and that it was easy to tell that,
16:37
Speaker 6: and we know that he's telling him, he's guiding him
16:40
Speaker 6: how to overcome this.
16:43
Speaker 3: Like wall of allegations.
16:45
Speaker 5: It's rather odd to see deference given to a billionaire
16:52
Speaker 5: supporter of the global intelligence state as well. Right, So,
16:56
Speaker 5: like it's one thing if Epstein had been a sort
17:00
Speaker 5: of left aligned billionaire and I mean and I don't
17:02
Speaker 5: mean Democrat, like obviously he was a dem donor and
17:05
Speaker 5: he was close.
17:05
Speaker 3: With the labor wing of Israel.
17:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, we can put a two up on the screen. Yeah,
17:11
Speaker 4: labor wave of Israel.
17:12
Speaker 5: But a two is the news yesterday from the House side,
17:16
Speaker 5: the Clintons have broken an agreement to be questioned on
17:23
Speaker 5: camera to avoid those contempt of Congress charges that it
17:27
Speaker 5: looked like they were barreling head on into.
17:30
Speaker 4: Just a couple of weeks ago, and they sent.
17:31
Speaker 5: That letter and said, no, this is all We're not
17:35
Speaker 5: doing it. They're not going to pull Steve Bannon and
17:38
Speaker 5: go to prison for defying the subpoena. They're not going
17:40
Speaker 5: to be on camera. But that's a reminder that again
17:44
Speaker 5: it's why of all of all the billionaires who have
17:48
Speaker 5: gnom Chomsky's deference and trust and support.
17:53
Speaker 4: Epstein's a non choice, but the worst one. It's a
17:55
Speaker 4: non choice, like who else you got?
17:57
Speaker 3: It's going to be worse than that.
17:58
Speaker 4: It's a weird one.
17:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it gives throwing it to rail the entire show.
18:05
Speaker 6: Chomsky was a an anarchist, and in the time that
18:09
Speaker 6: I was coming up, actual socialism had been somewhat significantly
18:16
Speaker 6: discredited on the left because of the collapse of the
18:19
Speaker 6: Soviet Union and a lot of like American The American
18:25
Speaker 6: idea in the late eighties nineties about communism was not
18:30
Speaker 6: that it was this bulwark against American imperialism and like
18:34
Speaker 6: an and a like vehicle for the rise of the
18:37
Speaker 6: working class. It was like this was a sclerotic, authoritarian thing,
18:43
Speaker 6: and that gave purchase to anarchism to really take hold
18:47
Speaker 6: in like the nineties and early two thousands as an
18:50
Speaker 6: alternative that radicals could glom onto. And you always had
18:55
Speaker 6: the socialists and communists saying that's fake, that's just that's
18:59
Speaker 6: just gloss over liberalism. And it allows them to say
19:04
Speaker 6: I told you so, because the answer to how could
19:07
Speaker 6: he align himself with somebody like this would be so interesting? Well,
19:11
Speaker 6: it's actually it really was just glossed over liberalism.
19:14
Speaker 4: That's so interesting. A four. Let's put a four up
19:20
Speaker 4: on the screen.
19:21
Speaker 5: This is an Epstein email to Peter Teal where Ryan
19:25
Speaker 5: This gets into a lot of the drop site reporting here. Epstein,
19:29
Speaker 5: February twenty eight, twenty sixteen. As you probably know, this
19:32
Speaker 5: is to Peter Teal, I represent the Ross Childs. I
19:35
Speaker 5: was hoping to figure out a way for the bank
19:36
Speaker 5: that has one hundred and sixty b and management can
19:39
Speaker 5: do something in tech best client lists in the world,
19:41
Speaker 5: prehistoric products.
19:42
Speaker 4: It can wait. Good luck in China.
19:43
Speaker 5: This is like a poem, like a sick pome. I'll
19:46
Speaker 5: be in Europe again twenty twenty eight, then island. So
19:49
Speaker 5: if you want to come around the world going west dot,
19:52
Speaker 5: come to the island dot. Or if you would like
19:54
Speaker 5: to meet in Saudi at the end of the month
19:56
Speaker 5: question mark and then Teal says, certainly, not in Saudi.
20:00
Speaker 4: I think I will would the Middle East for the
20:01
Speaker 4: next decade or so.
20:03
Speaker 5: Should be back on East Coast in late April May
20:05
Speaker 5: sometime in NYC or on island.
20:07
Speaker 4: Then dot dot dot.
20:10
Speaker 5: Lovely they have us hanging here in suspense. But Ryan
20:12
Speaker 5: Dropsite has done a deep investigation into the Epstein Rothschild's connection.
20:17
Speaker 3: Right yeah, so people can go read that.
20:18
Speaker 6: That's Arianda Rothschild, who herself is a fascinating character because
20:22
Speaker 6: she's not a Rothschild, just from Central America, married into
20:25
Speaker 6: the family and then became the first kind of married
20:28
Speaker 6: in person to run the bank. And she developed a
20:30
Speaker 6: very close relationship with Epstein, which she denied, but which
20:34
Speaker 6: our original.
20:35
Speaker 3: Emails showed not true at all.
20:36
Speaker 6: This further tightens it and shows that he was using
20:40
Speaker 6: his linkage with her and the bank to try to
20:44
Speaker 6: appeal to Teal.
20:46
Speaker 3: Here that's twenty fifteen.
20:48
Speaker 6: One thing I was proud of from this weekend that
20:50
Speaker 6: I had a nice scoop before we hit the tarmac,
20:54
Speaker 6: which was we found this three and a half hour
20:58
Speaker 6: conversation between sin Ahood Barack and Laurence Summers that was
21:03
Speaker 6: huge and pulled a piece out of it where he
21:06
Speaker 6: is telling ad Barack, who's still Minister of Defense. So
21:09
Speaker 6: this was February of twenty thirteen. He didn't leave the
21:13
Speaker 6: ministry until March of twenty thirteen. But so he's plotting,
21:16
Speaker 6: like what his next move is going to be, and
21:19
Speaker 6: Epstein is like, you should be on the board of
21:20
Speaker 6: this company called Palanteer.
21:22
Speaker 3: He spells it for him, incorrectly, spells it incorrectly.
21:26
Speaker 4: It's like traitors where they write the names. And then
21:28
Speaker 4: that's all I could think of it.
21:29
Speaker 3: And then Barack spells it back to make sure he's
21:32
Speaker 3: got it.
21:33
Speaker 6: Right, and gets it right no and yes, yes, even
21:36
Speaker 6: though it's been way off when Epstein spelled it and
21:39
Speaker 6: then they asked him to spell Teal. He gets that wrong.
21:41
Speaker 6: At one point Andres and Horowitz he gets that wrong. Meanwhile,
21:46
Speaker 6: but he's Meanwhile, Sommers is there and he tells that
21:50
Speaker 6: He's like, who's Andres and Horowitz. He's like, oh, Larry's
21:53
Speaker 6: an advised with him. He gets a million dollars a
21:54
Speaker 6: year from them just to give them advice. Larry can't
21:57
Speaker 6: even be like, I'll be spelled it wrong. So after
22:01
Speaker 6: that Teal Epstein invests heavily in Peter Teal's companies. Twenty
22:08
Speaker 6: twenty four, Palenteer and Israel strike up strategic agreement. Trump
22:12
Speaker 6: basically has a strategic agreement with Palenteer. Now, so this
22:16
Speaker 6: is interesting to see the kernels of this, this relationship
22:21
Speaker 6: starting to bloom.
22:22
Speaker 5: And from all of the reporting you've done on Ahood Barack,
22:27
Speaker 5: what then, big picture geopolitical significance would you or how
22:33
Speaker 5: would you describe the relationship in that context? What does
22:36
Speaker 5: it mean that they were forming that bond at that time?
22:38
Speaker 6: Ahu Barack played a well he goes back to Iran contract. Yeah,
22:43
Speaker 6: as you're learning in this book that and when are
22:46
Speaker 6: both reading now on Profits of War by Ari Ben Minsh.
22:50
Speaker 6: Barack comes up there in a bunch, but so he
22:53
Speaker 6: goes back to early which Epstein was also involved in,
22:57
Speaker 6: but after he leaves office and twenty thirteen he tries
23:00
Speaker 6: to come back. In twenty eighteen nineteen Epstein dying, I
23:03
Speaker 6: think the rails helped to derail has come back into politics.
23:09
Speaker 6: He played a central role in the creation or the
23:13
Speaker 6: advent and the expansion of Israel's cyber weapons in cybersecurity industry.
23:19
Speaker 6: Barack is on all of these keyboards. It became his thing,
23:23
Speaker 6: and it was Epstein who guided him toward this thing
23:26
Speaker 6: and telling him like, these people like Teal and these
23:29
Speaker 6: other these are the this is the future, and you
23:34
Speaker 6: need to be a major part of it, and you
23:36
Speaker 6: can open the doors. You can then be the one
23:39
Speaker 6: that can sell you know, you can build relationships with
23:41
Speaker 6: African countries, with Asian countries around the world to help
23:47
Speaker 6: these Israeli companies get in. And because Barack had been
23:51
Speaker 6: at the center of Israeli intelligence for so long, he
23:55
Speaker 6: had those relationships. So Epstein played a central role in
24:00
Speaker 6: the expansion of the surveillance state, global surveillance state that
24:05
Speaker 6: we have today and that continues to expand.
24:08
Speaker 5: So this is one of the things that I've been
24:10
Speaker 5: going through the last like forty eight hours is mentioned
24:12
Speaker 5: in the files of the NSSA. And this is really
24:15
Speaker 5: interesting actually in the bigger contexts that you just mentioned.
24:19
Speaker 5: Epstein was obsessed with the idea that you can use
24:23
Speaker 5: NSA style decryption on human cells, and so he was
24:27
Speaker 5: engaged in this project. And maybe we can talk about
24:30
Speaker 5: this next week or something. But where he's trying, he's
24:33
Speaker 5: asking people to hook him up with Israeli hackers. I'm
24:36
Speaker 5: looking at one email right now to this guy who's
24:38
Speaker 5: at the Gates Foundation at the time, Boris Nikolic, who says,
24:41
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein says, let's think up NSSA types for Washington meeting.
24:46
Speaker 5: All these mentions, where do you have contacts at NSA?
24:51
Speaker 5: Can you find me the best codebreaker NSSAY type. I mean,
24:54
Speaker 5: it's just like over and over again. And that's really
24:57
Speaker 5: interesting that he was helping a Hubarak build the Israeli
25:01
Speaker 5: surveillance state and then looking to mine codebreakers at the
25:05
Speaker 5: American surveillance state for his science.
25:09
Speaker 4: Like he had these what's the right We're like these
25:11
Speaker 4: almost like millenarian ideas about technology, like he can bring about.
25:21
Speaker 6: Right, and unusually he brought it about. I've seen a
25:24
Speaker 6: lot of people who've watched his interview with either listen
25:28
Speaker 6: to that conversation or they watch his interview with Bannon
25:30
Speaker 6: and they're like, Oh, this guy is just this owner
25:33
Speaker 6: who's just like high flutint and ideas, but he's actually
25:37
Speaker 6: a dummy. And I would just strongly encourage people to
25:43
Speaker 6: give that analysis a second thought. This guy, this is
25:47
Speaker 6: not a dummy. This is a guy who can explain
25:51
Speaker 6: and understand extraordinarily. He can take extraordinary complex systems, whether
25:55
Speaker 6: it's global finance, global politics, science and medicine, surveillance, global surveillance,
26:02
Speaker 6: he can he can understand them intuitively and then he
26:05
Speaker 6: can explain them in a way that allows you to
26:09
Speaker 6: understand them. That is an extremely rare quality in somebody
26:13
Speaker 6: that is not a dummy, that is that is not
26:15
Speaker 6: somebody just sitting around pontificating. And man's plaining like, don't
26:22
Speaker 6: under don't underestimate this guy.
26:23
Speaker 3: That's what I would say.
26:24
Speaker 4: Well, one person who was not charmed by Jeffrey Epstein
26:28
Speaker 4: is Norman Finkelstein.
26:32
Speaker 5: Let's put this one up a five. Oh my gosh, Ryan,
26:37
Speaker 5: this is a great email.
26:38
Speaker 3: This is fun. So yeah, what's so the context here?
26:42
Speaker 6: You've got some reporters who are kind of reaching out
26:48
Speaker 6: for comment right about Dershowitz and and Epstein. Norman Norman
26:57
Speaker 6: Finkelstein twenty fifteen responds, My guess is, if Epstein put
27:02
Speaker 6: your daughter at age fifteen in such a position, you
27:04
Speaker 6: wouldn't publicly describe him as a quote friend and person
27:07
Speaker 6: of quote integrity. In fact, I would hope that you'd
27:11
Speaker 6: promptly throttle both Epstein and Dershowitz.
27:14
Speaker 5: Epstein is c seed on this email, by the way, Yes,
27:18
Speaker 5: and probably I was just going to say, yeah, I
27:21
Speaker 5: bet Dershwitz is one of the redacted names.
27:23
Speaker 6: We had Dershwitz on the program a couple of years ago,
27:26
Speaker 6: before Rising Rising, and I remember before Finkelstein was so
27:32
Speaker 6: the celebrity he rightfully is today. I asked him about
27:35
Speaker 6: his The context for this is Dershwitz basically destroyed Finkelstein's
27:40
Speaker 6: academic career because he didn't like a review that Finkelstein
27:45
Speaker 6: wrote of dershwitz book.
27:46
Speaker 4: This is another piece of drop site.
27:48
Speaker 6: Reporting well that that was actually that was about the
27:52
Speaker 6: Israel lobby merchant, that Epstein and Dershwitz both collaborated to
27:58
Speaker 6: try to undermine that the book the Israel lobby with
28:01
Speaker 6: Meerscheimer and Walt.
28:02
Speaker 4: They probably did the same thing with Singlestein.
28:04
Speaker 3: Too well, absolutely, I.
28:05
Speaker 4: Am collaborating behind the scenes.
28:08
Speaker 6: Was Epstein like involved with going after Finglestein like they
28:11
Speaker 6: could like probably yes, Oh the other fun thing, we
28:15
Speaker 6: don't have him here. Epstein and Woody Allen hated Alan
28:20
Speaker 6: Dershowitz so much that, which is the funniest.
28:25
Speaker 4: The girls were gossiping behind his back.
28:28
Speaker 6: It's the funniest ending to this that Alan Dershwitz has
28:32
Speaker 6: dragged his.
28:33
Speaker 3: Own meager reputation through the mud.
28:36
Speaker 6: Do defend Woody Allen and Jeffrey Epstein to the bitter end?
28:44
Speaker 6: And now to find out they despised the guy. They
28:48
Speaker 6: thought he was full of himself the worst. They call
28:51
Speaker 6: him a completely shameless name dropper.
28:55
Speaker 3: Yea, Like they just go in on him.
28:57
Speaker 4: Especially Woody Allen, I mean, and just.
29:01
Speaker 3: His wife, because sometimes his wife is writing from what
29:03
Speaker 3: he writing for him either one.
29:04
Speaker 5: And sometimes she's just emailing as well. It's just a
29:07
Speaker 5: lot of sunny and woody in these emails.
29:09
Speaker 6: But the and Epstein says to whatdy Allan, No, no,
29:13
Speaker 6: he's even worse than you think, and Alan's like, that's
29:16
Speaker 6: not possible.
29:17
Speaker 4: Like, I'm woody Alan, There is no there.
29:19
Speaker 6: Is no bottom to what I think of Alan Derschwitz. Yeah,
29:22
Speaker 6: those are his best friends.
29:25
Speaker 5: What a team, What a team just going around the world.
29:29
Speaker 7: All right.
29:30
Speaker 5: There's also an email we should talk about here where
29:32
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein March of twenty eighteen, subject line writes to
29:37
Speaker 5: a redacted recipient, quote he was passed away.
29:40
Speaker 4: That's the subject line, and it's.
29:43
Speaker 5: A Actually, it's the quote of an article that I
29:46
Speaker 5: think was published in The Mirror in two thousand and two.
29:49
Speaker 5: And Epstein put in Robert Maxwell and then went to
29:53
Speaker 5: the quote, which is quote threatened Masade. He told him
29:56
Speaker 5: that unless they gave him four hundred million pounds to
29:58
Speaker 5: save his crumbling empire, he would have expose all he
30:00
Speaker 5: had done for them. And that time he had free
30:02
Speaker 5: access to Margaret Thatcher's Downing Street, Ronald Reagan's White House,
30:04
Speaker 5: to the Kremlin, and to the corridors of power throughout Europe.
30:07
Speaker 5: Maxwell passed away, passed on all the secrets he learned
30:10
Speaker 5: to Mosad in Tel Aviv. In turn, they tolerated his excesses, vanities,
30:14
Speaker 5: and insatiable appetite for luxurious lifestyle and women. He told
30:17
Speaker 5: his controllers who they should target and how they should
30:19
Speaker 5: do it. Henointed, he appointed himself as Israel's unofficial ambassador
30:22
Speaker 5: to the Soviet Bloc.
30:23
Speaker 4: And then Ryan this is it's a quote.
30:28
Speaker 5: H It's quite interesting that Epstein yes, and then he
30:33
Speaker 5: says he was passed away his passive voice as.
30:36
Speaker 3: BFF is Maxwell's daughter.
30:39
Speaker 6: Before Jeffrey Epstein, there was Robert Maxwell, Like the biggest,
30:45
Speaker 6: the most similar scandal to Epstein today is actually Maxwell
30:49
Speaker 6: when he was killed, as this is as this is
30:54
Speaker 6: the allegation from Epstein Maxwell. And it was similar also
30:58
Speaker 6: in the sense that there were so many obvious clues
31:03
Speaker 6: that he was in his rarely intelligence asset.
31:07
Speaker 3: Including his like.
31:10
Speaker 6: His burial, like in Israel at the most prestigious place,
31:14
Speaker 6: including Ari Benmnash saying out loud he was an asset
31:18
Speaker 6: and I worked directly with him, including all of this evidence,
31:22
Speaker 6: and you'd have the press calling it a giant conspiracy theory.
31:26
Speaker 6: So it was similar in that sense where and the
31:28
Speaker 6: public eventually I think that fought It was like, no, yeah,
31:32
Speaker 6: I don't believe the press on this one.
31:34
Speaker 3: The conspiracy theory is true.
31:35
Speaker 6: And now it's a pretty I don't now it's barely
31:37
Speaker 6: even a controversial thing to say that Maxwell wasn't at
31:41
Speaker 6: an Israeli asset like he just he just was, and
31:47
Speaker 6: he was. He also was, like Epstein, a bit of
31:50
Speaker 6: a con artist and a flim flam and and frittered away,
31:56
Speaker 6: you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. According to Ben Minash,
32:00
Speaker 6: the thing that actually broke his empire was there was
32:05
Speaker 6: this intramural dispute with the Israeli weapons traffickers involved in
32:11
Speaker 6: Iran Contra, and so they moved their money from banks
32:14
Speaker 6: that were guaranteeing Maxwell with the Iran Contra money to
32:19
Speaker 6: the East Block so the money would be safe from
32:21
Speaker 6: the CIA, which they were now starting to fight with.
32:24
Speaker 6: And so once that money got pulled, now Maxwell all
32:27
Speaker 6: of a sudden couldn't meet his monthly obligations. Maxwell then
32:31
Speaker 6: threatened that he would you blow the whistle on all
32:35
Speaker 6: the things that he was doing for them, And just
32:38
Speaker 6: a pro tip for assets out there, don't do that.
32:42
Speaker 3: Don't You're not going to win that one. Don't do that, like,
32:46
Speaker 3: don't don't warn that. If you do it, just do it.
32:50
Speaker 6: Don't tell them do x or I'm going to expose
32:55
Speaker 6: all of your secrets.
32:56
Speaker 3: Don't do that.
32:58
Speaker 6: You're not going to make it to that point. If
33:01
Speaker 6: you're going to leak stuff, leak it you might while.
33:05
Speaker 4: You might end up falling off the back of your gut.
33:07
Speaker 6: Don't walk into the room with the whists and be like,
33:09
Speaker 6: I'm going to blow this. If you don't give me,
33:13
Speaker 6: yeah exactly, you might wind up falling on of a
33:15
Speaker 6: window or off the back of your yacht or uh.
33:19
Speaker 6: One guy they said he got he'd played tennis, and
33:23
Speaker 6: like two days later they said he died of an
33:25
Speaker 6: aggressive form of cancer m.
33:28
Speaker 3: That he picked up like the day before.
33:30
Speaker 6: Like, oh, that's interesting, how that happens.
33:34
Speaker 4: One of those things, those crazy things in life.
33:37
Speaker 3: So yeah, pro tip, don't do it like this.
33:39
Speaker 5: And this is i mean the gist of what it's
33:42
Speaker 5: like going through these emails, and it's probably everyone's having
33:44
Speaker 5: this experience on social media right now. You're seeing little
33:49
Speaker 5: like tidbits in these single emails that like this seemed
33:53
Speaker 5: to confirm Epstein buys the conspiracy story. It's not really
33:59
Speaker 5: conspiracy anymore, but what has been treated as a conspiracy
34:02
Speaker 5: in the past about Robert Maxwell being quote passed away
34:07
Speaker 5: and it's just in.
34:07
Speaker 4: The subject line of an email.
34:09
Speaker 5: So there are it's wrong to call them gems, but
34:12
Speaker 5: like gems in the context of a getting to the
34:15
Speaker 5: bottom of what's actually going on, they're everywhere. And that's
34:18
Speaker 5: what makes it so addicting to be buried in the
34:20
Speaker 5: Epstein Library is you never know which silly email riddled
34:24
Speaker 5: with typos is going to be so significant and one,
34:28
Speaker 5: you know, throwaway email he sent what twenty eighteen?
34:32
Speaker 4: It has huge.
34:33
Speaker 6: Consequences and it's I love it in the sense that
34:36
Speaker 6: its teaching people history and very recent history that is
34:40
Speaker 6: still quite relevant to us.
34:43
Speaker 3: We're going way long. We should probably move on.
34:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do it.
34:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Van laith is joining us next to talk about.
34:49
Speaker 4: Oh no, we have a part two.
34:50
Speaker 3: Ice hearings. Congress probed the behavior of ice and hearings yesterday.
34:58
Speaker 3: Me or mar Martinez was there, who was shot five
35:01
Speaker 3: times by ICE agents in Chicago but survived, one of
35:04
Speaker 3: the more high profile survivors of ice violence.
35:08
Speaker 6: We're going to be joining in a moment by a
35:10
Speaker 6: friend of the show. Van lath And discussed the hearings.
35:12
Speaker 6: Let's start first with Martinez up on Capitol Hill.
35:16
Speaker 3: This is b one.
35:17
Speaker 10: As my attorneys showed the court, the disgusting text messages
35:22
Speaker 10: Exem sent to his fellow Border Patrol buddies, literally bragging
35:26
Speaker 10: about how many times he shot me. I got stick
35:30
Speaker 10: to my stomach. Seeing how a federal law enforcement officer
35:34
Speaker 10: will talk this way about shooting me, a woman who
35:38
Speaker 10: he swore into was both eye opening and heartbreaking.
35:44
Speaker 11: The true that in the body cam footage the CBP
35:47
Speaker 11: officer told you too, and I'm so sorry for saying this.
35:50
Speaker 11: The author told you to quote do something bitch before
35:54
Speaker 11: he fired. Yes, the disgusting, shameful, and it gets worse.
36:02
Speaker 7: Ms Martinez.
36:02
Speaker 11: These are images of texts sent by the agent who
36:05
Speaker 11: shot you, and they're actually were They're actually disturbing.
36:10
Speaker 7: To read, but I think it's important for the public
36:12
Speaker 7: to see this.
36:13
Speaker 11: The agent LinkedIn article about your shooting and texted, read
36:17
Speaker 11: it five shots, seven holes. I fired five rounds and
36:23
Speaker 11: she had seven holes.
36:24
Speaker 7: Put that in your book.
36:26
Speaker 11: Boys, Oh well, it is what it is. Shit happens.
36:33
Speaker 11: This is someone that works for the United States government.
36:38
Speaker 11: I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Now,
36:42
Speaker 11: he was talking about you, and it's our understanding that
36:45
Speaker 11: he was actually bragging about his aim shooting an unarmed
36:51
Speaker 11: American citizen?
36:53
Speaker 7: Is that right?
36:55
Speaker 4: Correct?
36:56
Speaker 6: And so we're hearing from mir Mar Martinez because she
37:00
Speaker 6: survives that attack. We didn't hear from Renana Cole Good,
37:05
Speaker 6: though we heard from some family members. Didn't hear obviously
37:07
Speaker 6: from Alex Pretty who's no longer here to testify. But Van,
37:13
Speaker 6: I'm curious when it comes to your when it comes
37:16
Speaker 6: to your audience, is this level of brutality kind of
37:22
Speaker 6: breaking through? And how have you how have you seen
37:25
Speaker 6: the conversation around immigration enforcement change?
37:28
Speaker 3: And also welcome to the program.
37:31
Speaker 12: Oh, thank you very much, glad to have you back.
37:34
Speaker 12: I hope you had a good time down there. I
37:35
Speaker 12: see no tank. There was work to be done.
37:37
Speaker 7: I can tell.
37:37
Speaker 3: I'm feeling good.
37:38
Speaker 7: And now what I'm seeing from my audience is rage.
37:43
Speaker 12: I'm seeing rage, and I'm seeing a sort of wake
37:48
Speaker 12: up call. Now, Ms Martinez, you guys just featured her.
37:53
Speaker 12: That was a story that I saw you guys cover
37:56
Speaker 12: that I saw majority report cover. I saw a lot
37:59
Speaker 12: of play in independent news media cover, but I did
38:03
Speaker 12: not see too much coverage of what happened to her
38:06
Speaker 12: anywhere else. I say that to say that I think
38:11
Speaker 12: that there were overreaches, brutality and violations of the Constitution
38:17
Speaker 12: by ICE prior to Renee Good that the general public
38:22
Speaker 12: wasn't aware of.
38:23
Speaker 7: I don't think they understood.
38:25
Speaker 12: I think they people got the sense in cities, particularly
38:29
Speaker 12: with large ICE deployments, of how you know, ICE was
38:33
Speaker 12: you know, roaming their communities and papers please sort of culture,
38:40
Speaker 12: scaring people that they share their communities with, and there
38:43
Speaker 12: were headlines being made.
38:45
Speaker 7: Don't don't don't get me wrong, but.
38:47
Speaker 12: As far as ICE agents taking out their guns, shooting
38:50
Speaker 12: people and putting their lives in danger, American citizens and
38:54
Speaker 12: undocumented people, I think that Renee Good and alex Pretty
38:57
Speaker 12: was a wake up call to those people, and I
38:59
Speaker 12: do not think they're as a way to put the
39:00
Speaker 12: genie back in the bottom.
39:01
Speaker 5: Let's roll this clip of renee Good's family testifying at
39:04
Speaker 5: the same hearing yesterday.
39:06
Speaker 13: B two, my name is Luke Ganger, and I'm here
39:10
Speaker 13: with my brother Brent. Renee Good is our sister. We're
39:19
Speaker 13: here on behalf of Nay's big family and those who
39:23
Speaker 13: loved her. We're here to ask for your help. I
39:32
Speaker 13: was talking to my four year old last week when
39:37
Speaker 13: she noticed I was not doing well. I had to
39:41
Speaker 13: come here today and talk to some important people. She
39:46
Speaker 13: knows that her aunt died and that somebody caused it
39:51
Speaker 13: to happen. The deep distress our family feels because of
39:55
Speaker 13: Nay's loss is in such a violent and unnecessary way,
40:02
Speaker 13: is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress, and desperation for change.
40:12
Speaker 13: In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation
40:18
Speaker 13: thinking that perhaps Nay's death would bring about change in
40:23
Speaker 13: our country, and it is not. The completely surreal scenes
40:33
Speaker 13: taking place on the streets of Minneapolis are beyond explanation.
40:41
Speaker 13: This is not just a bad day or a rough
40:45
Speaker 13: week or isolated incidents. These encounters with federal agents are
40:53
Speaker 13: changing the community and changing many lives, including ours, forever.
41:00
Speaker 5: So Van, I kind of disagree, respectfully with Renee Good's
41:04
Speaker 5: brother there on the point he's making about feeling as
41:07
Speaker 5: though her death has not brought about change. Public opinion
41:12
Speaker 5: has put a lot of pressure on the Trump administration,
41:14
Speaker 5: and that really, I mean, the Renee Good death was
41:18
Speaker 5: the moment that changed from my vantage point at least,
41:22
Speaker 5: I'm curious what you make of that. And one thing
41:23
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask too is people talk and we've
41:26
Speaker 5: talked here about the kind of dem Tea Party moment.
41:29
Speaker 5: It feels to me like the abolish Ice movement has
41:32
Speaker 5: become a really critical part of like Obamacare for the
41:36
Speaker 5: Tea Party movement was that rallying policy question. It feels
41:40
Speaker 5: to me like abolish Ice has kind of emerged as
41:42
Speaker 5: that for the Tea Party moment.
41:46
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I'll take your first question first.
41:50
Speaker 12: I tend to agree with you, I think from his
41:54
Speaker 12: vantage point, and I hate to speak for him, but
41:59
Speaker 12: when you are the victim of an injustice that's as
42:02
Speaker 12: profound as the loss of a family member, then the
42:07
Speaker 12: only elixir is for the source of that injustice to
42:12
Speaker 12: be held accountable and then for that to stop. It
42:16
Speaker 12: will probably be difficult for somebody that's dealing with that
42:20
Speaker 12: type of tragedy to see what we're seeing, which is
42:25
Speaker 12: that event being a flash point for really a political
42:30
Speaker 12: and cultural awakening for a lot of people in terms
42:33
Speaker 12: of how far ice has gone, what Ice really represents
42:37
Speaker 12: right now. You're seeing it in all the podcast spaces
42:41
Speaker 12: with a lot of the guys who are part of
42:43
Speaker 12: laundering Trump's reputation prior to the election, and just how
42:47
Speaker 12: they're being held accountable by their audiences for what they
42:51
Speaker 12: told people they should do, which is go out and
42:53
Speaker 12: support this regime. All of that's political. I think what
42:58
Speaker 12: would be cathartic to that, gentlemen, probably is to see
43:02
Speaker 12: one there be accountability in the death of his loved one,
43:06
Speaker 12: and on top of that, to see ice abuses stop
43:10
Speaker 12: or for there to be some plan for them to stop.
43:13
Speaker 7: And we, frankly haven't seen that quite yet.
43:16
Speaker 12: We've seen a lot of political tug of war happening,
43:19
Speaker 12: but nothing that seems like an answer to the problem
43:23
Speaker 12: of how they're being deployed in certain cities. To your
43:28
Speaker 12: second question, which I have totally forgotten in that little
43:32
Speaker 12: articulate and eloquent rant, what was.
43:34
Speaker 7: It again about?
43:35
Speaker 5: How so you have some Democrats voting with Republicans on
43:38
Speaker 5: the shutdown yesterday and basically the demp tea party moment
43:42
Speaker 5: seems to me like it's coalescing around abolish ice and
43:46
Speaker 5: the way the Republican tea Party was coalescing around Obamacare.
43:49
Speaker 4: And I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.
43:52
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's funny. How can I be that's funny? The
44:00
Speaker 12: Democrats don't.
44:02
Speaker 4: Get it, and it's I feel like you're about to
44:07
Speaker 4: uncork something.
44:08
Speaker 7: Then no, no, it's you know.
44:11
Speaker 12: I had a homeboy back in the day, and he
44:14
Speaker 12: used to like to, you know, have an occasional drink
44:18
Speaker 12: on Sunday night, you know, you come and he he
44:22
Speaker 12: polished off three or four twelve packs and he'd be like,
44:26
Speaker 12: he's a light he's a light drinker. I remember his
44:29
Speaker 12: girl telling him, hey, enough, like enough enough of it,
44:34
Speaker 12: like everybody had had enough. And I remember talking to him,
44:37
Speaker 12: talking to him. We go out one time and he goes, hey, man,
44:40
Speaker 12: I'm just gonna stay around here. I was gonna have
44:42
Speaker 12: a couple of I'm like, nah, man, you have an issue.
44:45
Speaker 12: You have a problem. We're dealing with you in love.
44:48
Speaker 12: But I'm telling you, this is a serious thing. You're
44:50
Speaker 12: gonna lose your family. I'm telling you. I'm telling you,
44:52
Speaker 12: I'm telling you. And it wasn't until he was seeing
44:56
Speaker 12: his kids at Barnes and Noble that he really got
44:59
Speaker 12: the the idea that she wanted something different and he
45:03
Speaker 12: had a serious problem. The problem was a part of
45:06
Speaker 12: his makeup and it was time to address it. I
45:08
Speaker 12: wonder when the Democrats are going to see themselves in
45:13
Speaker 12: the mirror, like when they're going to what Barnes and
45:16
Speaker 12: Noble visitation or we're going to have to arrange for
45:19
Speaker 12: them for them to see that they are orphaning their base.
45:27
Speaker 12: As you see me search for words. I really don't
45:29
Speaker 12: know how to articulate it. They do not get it.
45:33
Speaker 12: We're not going for it. That's it. We're not going
45:37
Speaker 12: for it. We're not going for it. It can't be negotiated.
45:42
Speaker 12: There's so many things that we're not going for, Like,
45:45
Speaker 12: it can't be negotiated. You can't talk nice about it.
45:49
Speaker 12: I'm wear that up on the hill everybody. There's all
45:52
Speaker 12: these histrionics and then they all go out and have
45:55
Speaker 12: a stake together and go to Epstein's house and all
45:57
Speaker 12: of that stuff like that. I get that that's how
45:59
Speaker 12: it goes. But like at this point, right now, that's over.
46:04
Speaker 12: We want this to stop. And how much ever pain
46:08
Speaker 12: has to happen to the general American public and project
46:13
Speaker 12: for this to be headed off.
46:15
Speaker 7: For this, for this part of.
46:17
Speaker 12: It, Ice Ice overreaches for us to say, hey, abolish this.
46:21
Speaker 12: This can't be reformed. The guts of it have to
46:23
Speaker 12: be torn up, torn up. Immigration enforcement is a part
46:28
Speaker 12: of having a country you have. You're gonna have borders,
46:31
Speaker 12: You're gonna have integration, immigration reform, and reform and enforcement
46:35
Speaker 12: excuse me, enforcement, should I say?
46:37
Speaker 4: You?
46:37
Speaker 7: Guys pissed me off with the question.
46:39
Speaker 12: I'm so mad at the at the Democrats, and I'm
46:41
Speaker 12: not coming across as articulate as I would want to.
46:45
Speaker 12: But I have conversations with politicians. I talked to them
46:49
Speaker 12: a lot. They called me, and they honestly don't get it.
46:53
Speaker 12: They are still in the phase of this where they
46:57
Speaker 12: are attempting to launder the reputation of ice to convince
47:02
Speaker 12: me and other people like me the usefulness of ice,
47:06
Speaker 12: where they're attempting to soft pedal it, and it really
47:12
Speaker 12: is I'm not even baffled. I'm fascinated, right. I think
47:16
Speaker 12: that a lot of people, if they had the conversations
47:18
Speaker 12: that I had, they would be gobsmacked by some of
47:24
Speaker 12: the political weakness. And I get it. It's complicated. I
47:27
Speaker 12: understand that it's complicated. But I was on the phone
47:30
Speaker 12: with somebody a couple of days ago. I said, man,
47:34
Speaker 12: figure out what the figure out what desperate looks like,
47:40
Speaker 12: figure out what truly obstructionists looks like. Figure out what
47:45
Speaker 12: ten is and go there, figure out what ten is.
47:49
Speaker 12: If there are all kinds of things, ICE is funded
47:52
Speaker 12: for a long time, I get it, all that stuff,
47:54
Speaker 12: figure out what ten is and go there. Because the
47:57
Speaker 12: disconnect between what I feel like the political intelligency of
48:01
Speaker 12: the left in Washington. That disconnect as it relates to
48:08
Speaker 12: the people that I'm having conversations with that listen to
48:11
Speaker 12: my show that.
48:11
Speaker 7: Taught to me, it's vast.
48:15
Speaker 12: They're talking about this issue as if it's regular, where
48:18
Speaker 12: there are people who are seeing Americans killed on the street,
48:21
Speaker 12: and they're like, what are you guys gonna do?
48:23
Speaker 6: And it feels like for a while, and tell me
48:25
Speaker 6: if this connects with what your conversation had been like
48:27
Speaker 6: feeling for a while, Democrats thought their answer needed to
48:31
Speaker 6: be to grow a beard and start using profanity.
48:34
Speaker 3: Yes, and like that.
48:36
Speaker 6: That was gonna show like how serious they were about changing,
48:42
Speaker 6: you know, their approach to Trump and to and to politics.
48:47
Speaker 6: I see, I can't tell if I see a little
48:49
Speaker 6: bit less of that. Like they started realizing, okay, it
48:51
Speaker 6: actually it's not authentic, and like if it's not coupled
48:56
Speaker 6: with something meaningful, it doesn't doesn't really land. And so
49:00
Speaker 6: maybe this is like an answer to what they could do,
49:02
Speaker 6: Like the Maga movement. They they were serious about changing
49:10
Speaker 6: the country. They like they told you, if we get
49:14
Speaker 6: into power, we're doing We're doing We're gonna build the wall,
49:17
Speaker 6: We're gonna do mass deportation, we're gonna do tariffs. Like
49:20
Speaker 6: they had these big ideas that stood in for the
49:26
Speaker 6: expression of the anger that people had, Like you've got
49:28
Speaker 6: this anger, and we're gonna do these big fundamental things.
49:32
Speaker 6: Democrats don't seem to have that, Like they've got profanity
49:35
Speaker 6: some of them. Some of them have grown beards, but
49:39
Speaker 6: they're not really there's nothing that you can grab onto
49:43
Speaker 6: that you can say, Oh, if they get into power,
49:46
Speaker 6: this is how the anger that I have a what's
49:48
Speaker 6: going on is going to be expressed abolished. Ice would
49:51
Speaker 6: be one of those things to say, like ice is irredeemable,
49:55
Speaker 6: We're getting rid of it.
49:56
Speaker 3: We're still doing immigration enforcement.
49:58
Speaker 6: But this rogue agency that's killing people in the streets
50:03
Speaker 6: like CBPS actually like killing more people in the streets.
50:07
Speaker 3: Deal with that separately.
50:08
Speaker 6: Uh, they gotta go like something like that, like does
50:11
Speaker 6: that does that track that? Like they feel like they
50:13
Speaker 6: feel like all they have to do is channel the
50:15
Speaker 6: anger by sounding angry themselves, but without any kind of
50:21
Speaker 6: meaning or substance behind it.
50:24
Speaker 4: Uh.
50:24
Speaker 12: I think you're you're you're dead on and I think
50:26
Speaker 12: that comes or that exists because they have for so.
50:31
Speaker 7: Long been a harm reduction party mm hm.
50:34
Speaker 12: And that robs you a vision, right, the Republican Maga,
50:40
Speaker 12: Trump is and wing they provided a vision to America. Now,
50:44
Speaker 12: in my opinion and opinion of a lot of people,
50:46
Speaker 12: that vision was grotesque, but it was a vision, nonetheless,
50:49
Speaker 12: and behind that vision, in order for them to be
50:53
Speaker 12: taken seriously, there had to be action. Now that action
50:56
Speaker 12: is disorganized, it violates the constant, it's inhumane, it's the
51:03
Speaker 12: entire list of things. But it had to exist, it
51:06
Speaker 12: had to be there. Abolished, ice is vision, defund the police.
51:14
Speaker 12: I know you guys don't like it. That's a vision statement,
51:17
Speaker 12: that's a statement idea. It's a big idea, right, It's
51:21
Speaker 12: it's something that says, hey, let's reimagine that and this
51:26
Speaker 12: and whatever.
51:27
Speaker 7: Is it the most popular thing?
51:29
Speaker 4: No?
51:29
Speaker 12: Is it something that should have been discussed for the
51:32
Speaker 12: merits of what it actually was. Yes, are some of
51:36
Speaker 12: these things jarring and shaking to the milk toast Boulet
51:41
Speaker 12: bourgeoise person who doesn't want to see society set on
51:46
Speaker 12: flames and reimagine cool, get all of that.
51:49
Speaker 7: The question is what's your version of that? Like, what
51:52
Speaker 7: is your vision?
51:54
Speaker 12: Okay, we know that this needs to stop. How do
51:57
Speaker 12: you imagine it stopping? How do you imagine immigration enforcement?
52:03
Speaker 12: How do you imagine a path to citizenship? How do
52:06
Speaker 12: you imagine humanity for people that we share borders with?
52:10
Speaker 12: What is your version of this? And it's very difficult.
52:14
Speaker 12: They are so concerned with not being rude that it
52:20
Speaker 12: seems like they care more about that than actual victory
52:23
Speaker 12: and the protection of the people who put them in power.
52:26
Speaker 5: And in the politics of it, the political value of
52:29
Speaker 5: being able to milk the energy to have the hearing
52:32
Speaker 5: like they put together yesterday without putting their policy, like
52:36
Speaker 5: you said, whatever they're reimagining, putting it on the table,
52:40
Speaker 5: you can talk and end up never actually Republicans of
52:44
Speaker 5: this with Obamaca, it's a perfect parallel. They never put
52:46
Speaker 5: anything right now, they don't have anything. It's been fifteen
52:48
Speaker 5: years right.
52:50
Speaker 12: Because their resistance to Obamacare has nothing to do with
52:56
Speaker 12: what we're trying to talk about, which is how are
52:59
Speaker 12: people going to get to the doctor. Yeah, okay, Like
53:04
Speaker 12: how are people going to get care? And I think
53:07
Speaker 12: that really on both sides of this, there.
53:11
Speaker 7: Is something happening.
53:13
Speaker 12: And I really desperately hope that we can take advantage
53:18
Speaker 12: of the moment people that want to live in a
53:22
Speaker 12: society of freedom, that people are really getting to a
53:25
Speaker 12: point where they're starting to ask a question. And it's
53:28
Speaker 12: a question that all Americans should always have asked themselves,
53:32
Speaker 12: but it's a hard question to ask, like what's in
53:35
Speaker 12: this for me? I think the biggest thing about the
53:39
Speaker 12: what ICE is doing in the overreaches is people are
53:42
Speaker 12: seeing in their communities, in their societies dysfunction and chaos,
53:48
Speaker 12: and they're going, is this changing my life? And are
53:53
Speaker 12: things cheaper? Are societies better? Or are you injecting a
53:58
Speaker 12: whole bunch of chaos into my world for political reasons?
54:02
Speaker 12: For your power? We voted for a long time to uh,
54:08
Speaker 12: I guess we know what's in it for Trump, we
54:12
Speaker 12: know what's in it for Chuck Schumer, we know what's
54:14
Speaker 12: in it for all of these people. They get power,
54:17
Speaker 12: they get to continue to pull the strings of society.
54:20
Speaker 7: We'll just ask yourself, like, what's in it for you?
54:22
Speaker 7: What have you.
54:23
Speaker 12: Gotten for this? Have you gotten better medical care? Do
54:26
Speaker 12: you get lower grocery prices? What's the is any of
54:28
Speaker 12: this working for you? And I think on both sides
54:31
Speaker 12: of the aisle people are going it doesn't seem like
54:33
Speaker 12: anyone's really thinking about me.
54:35
Speaker 3: Yep, Ben, Always a pleasure to have you on. Look
54:39
Speaker 3: forward to your next to Parents Higher Learning podcast.
54:42
Speaker 6: Everybody check it out. Thanks so much for joining us.
54:45
Speaker 7: No problem.
54:46
Speaker 12: I would have hack because next time I want to come,
54:47
Speaker 12: I want to fish. I want to fish and go
54:49
Speaker 12: to fish fishing today and then we go to fish
54:52
Speaker 12: in the evening.
54:53
Speaker 7: Ryan, don't leave me out, brother.
54:55
Speaker 6: You're in, You're in the crow, all right, say all
54:58
Speaker 6: right up. Next, Iran talks are moving to Oman. Is
55:02
Speaker 6: it just a they just like faking this so they
55:05
Speaker 6: can get their assets in place to bomb Tehran again?
55:07
Speaker 3: Probably we'll talk about it next.
55:12
Speaker 5: Details out of the Arabian Sea. Let's put this first
55:15
Speaker 5: element up on the screen. As Fox News says, here,
55:18
Speaker 5: the US military shot down and unmanned Iranian drone after quote,
55:21
Speaker 5: it aggressively approached a US Navy aircraft carrier with unclear intent.
55:26
Speaker 5: A US Central Command spokesperson told Fox News. The USS
55:30
Speaker 5: Abraham Lincoln was transiting the Arabian Sea, approximately five hundred
55:34
Speaker 5: miles from iran southern coast, when in Iranian had one
55:37
Speaker 5: thirty nine drone unnecessarily maneuvered toward the ship. According to
55:42
Speaker 5: that spokesperson for Centcom Ryan, this is a reminder of
55:47
Speaker 5: how fragile the conditions in the Middle East star right now.
55:51
Speaker 5: And I know a lot of people on the right
55:54
Speaker 5: who are disappointed that Trump has not made good on
55:57
Speaker 5: his promises in Iran. But reminders they got a drone,
56:01
Speaker 5: Reminders of plenty, yes, they got a drone. Of how quickly, quickly,
56:05
Speaker 5: quickly this can escalate the second an American is hurt,
56:09
Speaker 5: you have a different, completely different war.
56:12
Speaker 6: The the like asymmetry here as wild. Like if you try,
56:16
Speaker 6: if we try to add up the amount of money
56:18
Speaker 6: the US spent to shoot down this was it twenty
56:23
Speaker 6: thousand dollars drone, It would reach into well into the
56:27
Speaker 6: probably hundreds of millions. I mean if you count the
56:29
Speaker 6: billion dollar aircraft. Although we can keep aircraft carry we
56:32
Speaker 6: can keep using that the missiles, the like, the equipment
56:38
Speaker 6: this is this is a fundamental material problem for the
56:42
Speaker 6: US going forward, that it's up against it's up against
56:46
Speaker 6: this new cheap drone warfare with and it is using
56:52
Speaker 6: it's older like multi billion dollar assets. We're in a
56:59
Speaker 6: war of attrition with somebody who can actually produce them
57:02
Speaker 6: like consistently, like China. Like we've run out of like
57:07
Speaker 6: ten million dollars missiles pretty quickly, and they can just
57:09
Speaker 6: keep slapping together these drones.
57:11
Speaker 5: And I will see in this case, like there's a
57:14
Speaker 5: you and I made disagree on this, but there's I
57:16
Speaker 5: think an interesting test case happening right now for the
57:20
Speaker 5: piece through strength doctrine at its best. So if Trump
57:26
Speaker 5: de escalates by having aircraft carriers in the Arabian Sea
57:31
Speaker 5: and threatening her on but not actually going much further,
57:36
Speaker 5: like doing what they want him to do, and they
57:38
Speaker 5: being the neo conservative bulwark that remains in power through
57:44
Speaker 5: Lindsay Graham and many many others here in Washington, though
57:47
Speaker 5: not many others around the country, average voters, not a
57:51
Speaker 5: huge constituency, of course, but by not giving into their
57:55
Speaker 5: demands for like full scale war and using the big stick,
58:01
Speaker 5: it's possible that fewer people die and you spare your
58:05
Speaker 5: spared a broader conflict.
58:07
Speaker 6: But uh, just yeah, at this point, I would take
58:11
Speaker 6: that because my expectations of Trump are so low. But
58:15
Speaker 6: I'm really tired of him taking credit, uh for not
58:20
Speaker 6: doing bigger wars.
58:22
Speaker 3: That he didn't have to do at all.
58:25
Speaker 6: He's like, look at Venezuela, like we went in and
58:27
Speaker 6: we went out and could have done a long term
58:30
Speaker 6: occupation and invasion. Well you could have also just left
58:33
Speaker 6: them alone.
58:34
Speaker 3: Nobody will like.
58:35
Speaker 5: We still don't know that it's not going to It's
58:38
Speaker 5: the same thing with Iran.
58:39
Speaker 4: I mean there's so many people who were taking victory
58:40
Speaker 4: laps after June, like, oh, you guys were wrong.
58:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, we only did twelve days.
58:44
Speaker 4: I'm happy to take an L, happy to take an L.
58:46
Speaker 3: But it's February and here we are back again. Yes,
58:48
Speaker 3: why like again? Why like? What like?
58:51
Speaker 4: And here we.
58:52
Speaker 5: Are with Delsi Rodriguez and Judge of Venezuela like what
58:54
Speaker 5: was your what were you actually doing?
58:56
Speaker 3: Yeah? Good question.
58:58
Speaker 6: So, uh, nuclear talks are kicking up, so we can
59:01
Speaker 6: put up C three. So talks are scheduled now in Oman.
59:08
Speaker 6: They will not be their call news meetings calling them
59:13
Speaker 6: between the US and Iran, but Iran Iranian officials are saying, uh,
59:17
Speaker 6: they're there are indirect talks in a sense that the
59:20
Speaker 6: US is still refusing to kind of be in the
59:22
Speaker 6: same room. Cutters going to be there and they're going
59:25
Speaker 6: back and forth. There's some reporting out of Iran that
59:29
Speaker 6: they've gotten hints that that Kushner might end up becoming
59:32
Speaker 6: involved because we can put up C two. This is
59:34
Speaker 6: from on Launch Media, which is very well sourced among
59:37
Speaker 6: Iranian insiders. They were saying that one of the problems
59:41
Speaker 6: with the last round of negotiations, besides the fact that
59:43
Speaker 6: Trump killed all the negotiators, is that wit Cough consistently
59:49
Speaker 6: had to fly back to the United States to get answers,
59:54
Speaker 6: which you can imagine how frustrating that is. You're you're
59:56
Speaker 6: in the you're in an office, you're trying to buy
59:58
Speaker 6: a used car. Salesman like, I got to go talk
1:00:01
Speaker 6: to my manager, see if I can give you, you know,
1:00:03
Speaker 6: a discount on this true cote and he comes back
1:00:06
Speaker 6: ten minutes later, he's like, great news.
1:00:08
Speaker 3: You know, as long as you do the ten.
1:00:09
Speaker 6: Year warranty, we can do this true code at this
1:00:12
Speaker 6: at a discount. Imagine he had to fly back halfway
1:00:16
Speaker 6: around the world every time, and then the Iranians are
1:00:19
Speaker 6: sitting there twitting their thumbs and then they get bombed.
1:00:22
Speaker 3: So you can imagine that those are not ideal negotiating circumstances.
1:00:26
Speaker 3: So they're trying.
1:00:26
Speaker 6: They're saying, like, can you get some more people who
1:00:29
Speaker 6: are empowered to actually make deals? To me, the whole
1:00:32
Speaker 6: thing is absurd, Like, it seems pretty clear Trump is
1:00:39
Speaker 6: not serious about negotiations and it's just stalling because they
1:00:43
Speaker 6: launched most of their anti missile defenses during the Twelve
1:00:49
Speaker 6: Day War, and so they need to restock so that
1:00:52
Speaker 6: they can defend Israel from whatever counter attack comes. They
1:00:55
Speaker 6: can defend their other assets around the region, and they
1:00:58
Speaker 6: need to get all of their naval and air assets
1:01:02
Speaker 6: close enough to Iron so they can launch an attack.
1:01:04
Speaker 3: That seems to be what they're doing.
1:01:08
Speaker 6: In the past every time that they have invited the
1:01:11
Speaker 6: Iranians to negotiate, including Solomony, who I'll keep reminding people COSTM.
1:01:15
Speaker 6: Solomoney was in Bagdad when he was assassinated because he
1:01:21
Speaker 6: was lord there for negotiations towards peace, Like like, it's
1:01:25
Speaker 6: what it's Trump's move. He thinks it's clever, he thinks
1:01:28
Speaker 6: nobody sees it coming, and he's correct at first because
1:01:32
Speaker 6: that's like a maniacal thing to do. Yeah, because for
1:01:35
Speaker 6: thousands of years, like the one thing that even like
1:01:37
Speaker 6: Eengis Khan or whatever would like recognize and be like
1:01:41
Speaker 6: people go out and talk like it's just not pragmatic
1:01:44
Speaker 6: to kill that person. We'll talk to them and then
1:01:47
Speaker 6: you can go back and kill each other.
1:01:48
Speaker 7: Later.
1:01:49
Speaker 6: Trump was like, oh, but what if we killed them
1:01:51
Speaker 6: at the negotiating table when they're not looking?
1:01:54
Speaker 3: Have you thought of that?
1:01:59
Speaker 6: So you know, there's only so many red weddings until
1:02:02
Speaker 6: people show up at the wedding and like, so that's
1:02:07
Speaker 6: why I suspect that the Iranians are assuming that an
1:02:12
Speaker 6: attack is coming.
1:02:13
Speaker 3: You got you still got to take the invitation.
1:02:15
Speaker 6: You can imagine being tapped for these negotiations if you're
1:02:19
Speaker 6: an Iranian diplomat. I like, uh, really, this weekend helping
1:02:26
Speaker 6: my friend move.
1:02:28
Speaker 3: Like this is a chance of a lifetime. Would really
1:02:31
Speaker 3: love to do this.
1:02:31
Speaker 6: But if they can move it to am On, Oh
1:02:34
Speaker 6: they moved it to them on, God, then can't do
1:02:37
Speaker 6: them on.
1:02:38
Speaker 3: Actually turns out, yeah, I'm gonna worn out and am On.
1:02:42
Speaker 6: Things got a little out of control a couple of
1:02:43
Speaker 6: years ago when I was there I would really love
1:02:45
Speaker 6: to can't go to Aman. So yeah, and there's there's
1:02:51
Speaker 6: also reporting in that article that you can go go
1:02:53
Speaker 6: read that which backs up reporting that Jeremy Scalho had
1:02:57
Speaker 6: done earlier drop Site, which is that Iran had felt
1:03:01
Speaker 6: that the best way to de escalate these Trump attacks
1:03:05
Speaker 6: was to forecast exactly what they were going to do,
1:03:10
Speaker 6: tell Trump ahead of time so that there's minimal amount
1:03:14
Speaker 6: of damage and no actual damage to people, to American troops,
1:03:19
Speaker 6: and to announce ahead of time. We consider after we respond,
1:03:23
Speaker 6: we consider this finished. And so that's what they did
1:03:26
Speaker 6: multiple times, and there were people arguing at the time
1:03:29
Speaker 6: inside Iran, this is only going to convey weakness and
1:03:34
Speaker 6: invite more attacks.
1:03:36
Speaker 3: That you have to hit Trump harder.
1:03:39
Speaker 6: And the people who advocated for the restrained response, a
1:03:44
Speaker 6: lot of them were killed, and now they're being replaced
1:03:47
Speaker 6: by the people who had said, you're going to get
1:03:51
Speaker 6: yourself killed with this restraint. What Trump doesn't want is
1:03:57
Speaker 6: a forever war that he can't control. He's been very
1:04:00
Speaker 6: clear he hates those. So what we need to do
1:04:03
Speaker 6: is show him that we can pull one of those off.
1:04:07
Speaker 6: So we need to hit American assets in Iraq American
1:04:10
Speaker 6: assets in Syria, American assets in Doha, and you need
1:04:13
Speaker 6: to hit Israel as much as we can.
1:04:17
Speaker 3: And they've even talked about killing.
1:04:19
Speaker 6: As many as five hundred American troops to send a
1:04:24
Speaker 6: signal that they're going to be consequences to you continuing
1:04:30
Speaker 6: to attack us every six months. They feel like that's
1:04:34
Speaker 6: this faction feels like that's the only way to get
1:04:36
Speaker 6: this to stop, that that's the only language Trump understands.
1:04:40
Speaker 6: And the people in the room to argue against it
1:04:42
Speaker 6: were killed by Trump. So maybe they're all bluffing and
1:04:48
Speaker 6: or maybe the US can just annihilate their response capacity.
1:04:54
Speaker 6: Who knows, and hopefully we won't find out. But that's
1:04:57
Speaker 6: the current state of play.
1:05:00
Speaker 5: Well that's I mean, just the drone strike yesterday is
1:05:03
Speaker 5: again a reminder of how quickly this can completely change completely.
1:05:09
Speaker 5: You can wake up one day and an American could
1:05:12
Speaker 5: have been killed on an aircraft carrier, and we could
1:05:14
Speaker 5: be sending more and more troops, We could be sending
1:05:16
Speaker 5: boots on the damn ground in a heartbeat.
1:05:19
Speaker 4: Because of how fragile this is.