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Bring people with you: lessons from APM’s Project Professional of the Year · Project Podcast

0:08
Welcome to the APM podcast brought to you by the
0:10
Association for Project Management, the chartered body
0:13
for the project profession. My name is Emma DaVita and I'm
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the editor of Project APM's quarterly journal and your host.
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In this podcast I'm speaking to Jimmy Wien, APM's Project
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Professional of the Year 2023 and Associate Director at Turner
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and Townsend. Jimmy works on the Bromford and
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Castlevale flood risk management scheme for the Environment
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Agency. He was praised by APM's awards
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judges for his successful dealing with stakeholder
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pressure, garnering support from the local MP and forming a high
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performing team to deliver the project for the overall benefit
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of the local community. Listen on for his top projects
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and career tips to help you get ahead in your project career.
1:02
Welcome Jimmy to the APM podcast.
1:04
Thanks for your time. Pleasure to have you.
1:06
Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.
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Why don't you give us a brief overview of your role and
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responsibilities and the types of projects you're involved with
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at the moment? I'm an associate director of
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Turn in Townsend and I because I work for a consultancy, I I get
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seconded out into client teams and particularly deliver
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projects for them as to be as a project manager.
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But it also means that I do look after consultant teams to
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deliver on ranges of, of projects and that will include
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things like resourcing, health and safety, well-being
1:42
development and ensuring that there's a quality service
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assurance, etcetera. And over which providing that
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sort of guidance and support to the to the wider team.
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I do have like a direct team that I look after within the
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within turning Townsend. So I'm accounts for about 13
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project managers and five of them report to me directly and
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there's a couple of people that I mentor.
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So that's sort of my, my loose role.
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And so projects I'm, I'm actually seconded into a, a kind
2:12
of national team at the moment within my organisation.
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And we're just working on sort of major bids.
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So that's kind of framework tenders and sort of winning new
2:20
work. It's kind of at the forefront of
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our service offering. It's kind of a sidestep away,
2:24
but it's, there's lots of learning and development and
2:26
networking, which is big, big parts of why I'm, I'm doing this
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secondment, both for my own professional development, but
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also for the organisation support and development.
2:35
But my last project that I worked on towards the, the kind
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of start of this year was a sort of a large combined storm
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overflow project. And it was just building about
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10,000 cubic metres of capacity to kind of improve the nearby
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river water quality and reduce that sort of storm spillage,
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which is a bit of a, you know, a hot topic with within the
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industry, but there's a lot of investment going on.
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So it's quite an exciting time in space within the water
3:01
industry. Yeah, it's very much a hot
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topic, isn't it? Everyone's looking at what's
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going on with rivers and storms and climate change and there's a
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real feels like a real need, an urgency to deal with all of this
3:13
in the UKI wanted to congratulate you again for being
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OPM's Project Professional of the Year 2023.
3:20
Thank you very much. And part of the reason I wanted
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to talk to you was to understand a bit more about what what has
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made you so successful in delivering projects.
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And I remember the last time we spoke, it was very much the
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approach he took that impressed me so very much about trust and
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importance of transparency. Just looking back, tell us about
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the project that won you the award and and what the judges
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liked about what you were doing. Yes, so the, the project I
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worked on was a large flood defence scheme in, in the heart
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of Birmingham. And it had a, it was, it was
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built in a kind of a, a complex urban environment and it was
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next to a, a kind of a, an estate.
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So you had a lot of stakeholders, internal,
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external, you know, third party service providers.
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We were dealing on, on working with the council directly and
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there was kind of an immediate benefit because not only did we
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build a, a physical flood defence, it will also cut
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through this, this, this, this estate area.
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And therefore the, the residents were able to use that space.
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So we've actually built a, a cycle track on top of the flood
4:38
defence. There's a two kilometre cycle
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truck brand new and that meant that the residents were able to
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use that, you know, post delivery of the project.
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So I think I really focused on how did I leverage and get the
4:54
community involved and also provide a, a direct benefit to
4:58
them. I think that's what impressed
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the, the judges the most. There was an element of the
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environment side of, you know, you know, protecting homes, but
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then there was also a direct benefit to people who would be
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using that every single day. And that was my whole my whole
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focus. So it's very much delivering
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benefits to the community. What lessons or advice would you
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pass on to others? How did you actually make that
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work in practise? Any good tips or hacks or things
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that work really well? Yeah.
5:25
So if it goes back to the approach that that we spoke
5:28
about and I like to, I like to have a really kind of open
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approach based on transparency and trust.
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And that means focusing on lots on people.
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Now from a from a project sense that means the project teams and
5:41
and the wider organisation really focusing on them.
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And I, I prefer the word, the term people rather than
5:47
stakeholders because it, it reminds me that everyone is a,
5:52
someone with a story. And I, I just, I like talking to
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people, right? And I like to engage and I
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actually like to try to find out what their story is.
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And that entails their experience, their background,
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what they've gone through, what they've learned from different
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projects or also just outside of work as well, because you, you
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learn a lot of interesting things about people and then you
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can connect with people on a more deeper basis as as a
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result. And I use that sort of
6:15
relationship to help motivate Dr the team.
6:19
So if I, there's a common interest in, you know, I don't
6:22
know, sport, for example, we can, you know, sometimes I would
6:25
just bring it up and talk to people about that and just
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really focus on what their interests are.
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But for me, I like to learn about what other projects people
6:33
have worked on and what's gone well on those projects.
6:36
And again, what, what hasn't gone.
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So what could be improved? And it's kind of trying to build
6:40
upon that learning. So from a, from a project base,
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it's connecting with, with people and focusing on them.
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But when it comes to wider people that could be impacting,
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in this case, the community and residents, it's taken that same
6:52
approach. So the site office was opposite
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a community centre that was used by, by the residents.
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And they would have, they came and they met like twice a week.
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So whenever I came down to site, I'd walk across and just have
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kind of a cup of tea with them and just to speak and give them
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an update of how things are are going.
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And the backdrop is that the, because the project was was
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being built during COVID, there was large elements of this kind
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of open space which had to be closed off for safety reasons.
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And therefore there was a bit of the residents were keen to
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really get that reopened. So that's supposed to be used.
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So it's just kind of giving them as many updates as possible and
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just, and just talking to them, being open and honest about sort
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of time scale, some of the challenges that we were, we were
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dealing with and giving them that reassurance that we were
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doing everything that we we could physically to get that
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space open so that the benefit so that the community can use
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it. And I would get feedback like
7:46
because of the engagement, daily engagement and just speaking to
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them and just giving them updates, They really appreciated
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that. And you imply that same you, you
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apply that same process to to people within, within
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organisation and projects. I just extend that a bit further
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to people who are affected by the projects, but not a part of
8:03
the project team. And again, it's down to focus on
8:06
people and building relationships with them.
8:08
Am I right in remembering that when you were dealing speaking
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with the community that did the cycle path come out of
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conversations with them or had that always been planned?
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So that had always been planned, but there was there was an
8:21
element where there was like a under 12 play park.
8:25
Yes, that was it, yeah. Yeah.
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That was always part of the plan.
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But again, we will, we will really try to accelerate that,
8:32
basically open it in time for the school holidays, which we
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managed, which we managed to do and we invited the community on
8:38
on the opening and they've really enjoyed it.
8:40
We've got like the local councillors involved and the
8:42
local MP was involved as well. So we've really brought a lot of
8:45
different people together to really enjoy and and celebrate
8:48
that. But that was a, you know, that
8:50
was trying to really problem solve and complete and
8:54
accelerate the works ahead of time.
8:56
And it was just again, going back to communicating with
8:58
people what the plan was and who was focusing on on what area.
9:02
And I think they really appreciated it.
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And it was one of the most satisfying parts of delivering
9:07
the project for me is that sort of element of how I was able to
9:10
help support and benefit the wider community.
9:14
And again, I suppose I intentionally wanted to focus on
9:17
on the people, but certainly that was seeing that in action
9:22
and and seeing that that that direct benefit was, was really
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satisfying. I mean, why you're talking and
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you're saying talk about communication, but what's
9:30
striking me is that you must be a really good listener because
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you are responding to what the community had asked you.
9:36
You've been responding to that. How important is it to listen to
9:42
your team and to the people you're working with?
9:47
I think it's one of the most important kind of boost this
9:51
that you can provide as a leader to your team, because by
9:54
listening you, you give a sense of autonomy to your team, right?
9:58
And and then you can take all of those wonderful ideas that
10:02
diverse of experience and really put that into action.
10:06
But by listening you, you start, you solve a lot of problems
10:09
simply by listening to people. And whenever, whenever I start
10:12
any project, I like to speak to a wide range of people from
10:18
diverse experience and, and backgrounds.
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And I just asked them to, you know, same two questions.
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What do you think is going well on this project?
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And how do you think we can improve it?
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And then you, what you'll see is you'll get common areas that
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will run across those both 2, those two questions.
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And then you can group them together.
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And then you, what you'll find is you'll see some pinpoints and
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it's about, OK, then how do we take our collective knowledge to
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try to solve some of those, those elements?
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And then if you do that one you it allows you to take the ground
10:48
running quite quickly. It builds a really good picture.
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And also you see the focus areas that if you can then help solve
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in taking the kind of collective knowledge that is seen as really
10:59
positive within projects. And again, it comes down to
11:02
building that relationship. And most people have a good idea
11:05
of how to tackle some of the problems that they're dealing
11:08
with and listening to some of those solutions by not even
11:11
suggesting anything, by allowing people to talk, you come up with
11:14
a lot of great ideas. And from from a strategic point
11:17
of view, then you can kind of then look at those those ideas
11:22
and see which one can be implemented.
11:24
How do you encourage a culture within a project team where
11:28
people feel safe to speak up and and and tell the truth?
11:34
Just putting on sorts of focus on the relationship side is
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taking people on your project teams for coffee so that you
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have that a bit, you build that sort of that softer side, right?
11:45
And you do that as as a team and you have more face to face
11:50
meetings. You, you want to get people's
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ideas when you speak to them one-on-one and within the group
11:57
organised, you know, group team meetings.
11:59
So giving people that, that safe, trying to create that safe
12:01
space. And if you notice that people
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aren't as comfortable speaking within certain meetings, you as
12:07
a project leader, you can control that because you're
12:09
facilitating it. So it's trying to get everyone
12:12
involved by saying so. And so you know, what's your
12:14
opinion on this and then and giving everyone a chance.
12:17
And a very simple way that I do is at the beginning of the
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meeting, I like to ask what's everyone's expectations this
12:22
meeting? And usually send that on agenda.
12:25
Right before you start, you can ask you open it to everyone so
12:28
you know, what's the expectations.
12:30
And within that you can facilitate if you're finding
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that it's the same people always bring up the expectation.
12:34
Let's try maybe prompting and asking people what are their
12:38
opinions or what do they want to get out of it.
12:40
And then towards the end of the meeting, you can just circle
12:42
back and say, OK, let's look at the expectation.
12:45
Did we meet it? And if not, what's the next
12:47
step? And that it starts to build that
12:50
that culture of people being able to speak up.
12:53
And then you can pair that up with having one to ones with
12:56
people and encouraging it. I always like to start my one to
12:59
ones with health and safety moments, asking people, you
13:02
know, is there anything else that I can do?
13:04
How can I support? And it's kind of integrating
13:07
those two elements together on on in a one to one base and in a
13:10
group environment. And then you can implement
13:12
certain processes like having collaborative planning sessions
13:16
where you're bringing different groups of people together.
13:19
And, and if that's a kind of a pillar of the project, so say
13:23
you have monthly collaborative planning sessions and you might
13:27
focus on on say the schedule, or you might focus on, on risks.
13:31
And it's kind of facilitating that together by having those
13:35
processes on top of how you facilitate the, the meetings in
13:39
the workshops and speaking with, with people in and outside.
13:42
So mining all of those elements to, to then try to breed that
13:47
culture of, you know, openness and having that collaboration.
13:51
And, and that it really just starts with by speaking with
13:54
people and pick up the phone to them and encouraging it.
13:58
Because you start that process and you want that, that benefit
14:00
to, to then trickle down to the rest of the team.
14:04
Again, it's bringing together that some groups of people where
14:07
historically there could be tension.
14:09
So for example, between the client organisation, the
14:13
contract organisation, the delivery team, the commercial
14:16
team, the design team, the contractor team, you know,
14:19
there's a different, there's could be potential different
14:22
side of it's trying to bring those groups together to, to
14:24
break that, that barrier down. How do you do that in real life?
14:28
If you have people in a meeting that there is immediately to
14:32
detect there's some kind of tension there, how do you go
14:35
about diffusing that or dealing with it?
14:40
Live within a meeting if you sense that sort of tension.
14:43
It's trying to use the right language on both sides.
14:47
Say we all want this together. How are we going to serve this
14:49
together? You know, what's the plan here?
14:52
Who's going to be doing what? What's the clear roles and
14:53
responsibilities? And that's immediate within a
14:56
meeting, but separately outside the meeting, if you still feel,
14:59
feel like that needs to be built upon instead of speaking to both
15:01
sides separately. And then if you can, if you
15:04
want, you can then feel just bring them together just between
15:06
the, the three, the three parties, yourself as facilitator
15:10
and those two potential groups that then there might be, might
15:12
be tension and just trying to re emphasise the goal, the vision,
15:17
you know, what are we trying to work towards here?
15:19
And, and what's the benefit of that?
15:21
And we all have a sort of part to play within that.
15:31
We're APM, the only chartered membership organisation for the
15:35
project profession. When you become an APM member,
15:38
you'll receive the resources and support you need to make an
15:41
impact, delivering better projects with better outcomes.
15:45
Plus, you'll access exclusive training and benefits to support
15:48
your ongoing career development. We'll find out how we can help
15:51
you reach your potential by visiting apm.org.uk.
15:55
Because when projects succeed, society benefits.
16:01
I'm detecting that you relish the people side of projects.
16:05
Is that is that true? And I think you probably would
16:09
agree with me if I suggested to you that the success of projects
16:13
largely comes down to the people working on the project.
16:18
Yeah, I would agree with that and I would say I've, I've only
16:21
really been as successful as I have been.
16:23
It's because I focus on that, the people element.
16:26
I also always emphasise it to to everyone because I feel like
16:32
it's a skill set that you can work on every single day inside
16:36
and outside of your profession and you don't need a lot of
16:39
training. It does come of experience, but
16:42
if you make it a, a priority, you would focus on how do I
16:47
unlock, you know, issues by speaking with people?
16:51
How do I motivate them a bit more?
16:53
How do I try to connect with people?
16:57
How do I learn more about some of the people?
16:59
Right? Because again, you learn about
17:00
more skills, diverse skills that you have within projects, which
17:04
are often multidisciplinary and people of all different sorts of
17:08
backgrounds and experience. It's just focusing on on that,
17:12
that, that element. And again, I'd like to remind
17:15
myself that everyone has a story.
17:16
I actually think about if I want to introduce people, when I
17:19
introduce myself to people, what story am I?
17:21
Am I going to tell them about my journey today?
17:24
And also in about 5-10 years time, what do I want that story
17:27
to to be? So I'm always looking kind of
17:30
backwards and forwards and trying to connect people in in
17:33
that way. And I think that's just been my,
17:36
my approach. And I think that's critical to
17:38
any project success. I don't think I'm saying
17:40
anything that's revolutionary, you know, focusing on people,
17:43
communication, listening, collaborating.
17:47
And again, whether you're just starting your, your career as a,
17:52
you know, as an assistant professor, assistant project
17:54
manager, or if you're highly experienced and you've been in,
17:58
in the profession a very long time, you can still always focus
18:01
on that connection of people. And I feel like it is a big
18:05
differentiator because experience comes with time.
18:08
Tools and techniques that you learn along the along the way
18:11
does come with time. The people element is it stays
18:14
throughout. And if you started it on today
18:16
and you decided, you know what, for the next two years, I'm just
18:19
going to focus on making sure I'm one of the best people
18:22
person around, right? That's going to become such a
18:24
good skill and that you can use inside and outside of projects,
18:28
whether you're delivering, whether it's, whether it's a
18:29
programme, whether it's trying to, you know, work in different
18:33
teams, solving, solving problems, having that strong
18:35
people, people element. And I, I've consciously tried to
18:39
focus on that throughout my, my whole career.
18:42
And you, you find that you, you're slightly happier as well
18:46
by just learning more about people and having that approach.
18:49
And that's why I'm, I'm more kind of, I always try to look at
18:52
the positive side of things as a result.
18:55
Where do you go to learn more about people's skills or looking
18:58
back over your career with any books or podcasts or resources
19:02
that you use that you would recommend?
19:05
I always say to people and find a mental and straight away and
19:10
with us and you don't have to just be starting out environment
19:13
or it could be anywhere at any stage in your career.
19:16
I should say. Do you have a mentor?
19:17
If not, and I go out and and speak to someone and most people
19:21
are always willing to help, particularly people who are are
19:23
experienced. They people want to share that
19:26
that knowledge. So definitely finding and
19:27
identifying a a mentor and that that really helps that that sort
19:32
of that sort of process. If you're experienced enough,
19:34
then challenge yourself to maybe be to find some mentees and
19:37
impart some knowledge. I I guarantee you everyone
19:41
within the space has two or three experiences that really,
19:45
really shaped their careers, really helped them that they can
19:47
impart onto someone else. My one is dealing with people
19:51
and I like to emphasise that, you know, if I was to ask you,
19:54
Emma, you know, a couple of experience that you can think of
19:56
that really helps you, you could probably be able to give that
20:01
that knowledge of someone else and I and they could probably
20:03
apply it. And if we did that more on a
20:06
consistent basis? And we've made it as part of the
20:09
culture you're, you're creating something that where people
20:11
always learning and and developing as a result.
20:15
We're kind of delving into the world of, you know, learning
20:19
lessons. When you have completed a
20:21
project or you're working on a project, how important is it to
20:26
think about the lessons you're learning and then to share that
20:29
with the team or with others? Yes.
20:32
So with, with learning, with lessons learned, you always want
20:35
to you never want to start from scratch, right, Particularly in
20:40
I don't know, I work with an infrastructure project.
20:42
These sort of projects have been done for decades and you want to
20:46
kind of build on top of that. So always looking at what kind
20:51
of went well within the project and and sort of the areas where
20:55
you want to improve and plug, plug the gaps.
20:58
So never start from scratch and just just by talking to people
21:04
who have seen it all and who have a lot of experiences, they
21:07
know where the areas where if we focus on, we could probably be
21:11
quite successful, successful projects.
21:12
And equally some areas that would be pitfalls.
21:16
And before you start, or even even when, if you, if you come
21:20
onto a project a bit later on the middle of the project life
21:23
cycle, it's sitting down and having a collaborative sessions
21:29
and, and just having sitting there and saying, OK, let's
21:32
review what the last six months have looked alike.
21:36
And, and then and there you can look at lessons learned based
21:39
live within the project and then maybe come up with a few, you
21:43
know, three or four priorities that the team should focus on
21:48
and then agreeing that with everyone.
21:50
And because it's, that's in a collaborative workshop
21:52
environment, you can get sort of consensus on that.
21:55
That's, that's within, that's, that's sort of a practical thing
21:57
within a live project. But before you start a project,
22:00
you can always, you know, look at if you, you based on your
22:04
experience, others experiences, you take the same exercise and
22:08
you, you plan out what's gone well previously.
22:11
And where do we know that there's going to be risks and
22:15
where, where sometimes it's been difficult to unblock and what's
22:18
worked well in the past and try to agree to implement that.
22:21
And always on a regular basis trying to, trying to go back to
22:24
that because it's easy to finish the project, have a session
22:28
about lessons and then, and then never going back to it again.
22:32
And for me, that just needs to be baked as part of the, the
22:35
culture of delivering projects of having continuous
22:38
improvement. Because it's, it's likely that
22:41
the project you're, you're doing, someone else has done
22:43
several times and they, they, they, they can see elements of
22:48
how to improve and, and make it better.
22:51
And I'd always like to go to people who are highly
22:54
experienced because I know that they've seen it all,
22:56
particularly people on the sort of contracting side, because
22:59
they physically build it and they probably have a good idea
23:02
of how to really pragmatically Dr things forward.
23:06
So I, whenever I go to project, I go to designers who have
23:09
really experienced, I go to contractors who are really
23:11
experienced and I spend a lot of time with them because back to
23:14
learning development should pick a lot of things up, but you pick
23:17
up really good knowledge about how to improve the, the project.
23:22
So where wherever you are, even you're delivering a project at
23:24
the moment, you feel successful having a session saying, look,
23:27
how do we, how do we do this even better?
23:29
What needs to be true for us to hit certain requirements on, on
23:32
schedule or on the quality or the commercial side?
23:35
You know, how do we, how do we get better at this collectively?
23:37
And just brainstorm. You might come up with some
23:39
really great ideas. Really, some of the ideas might
23:42
not be applicable to the current project, but I guarantee you
23:45
that you're going to come out a few ideas that it's going to
23:47
have some sort of incremental benefit to that, to that project
23:50
at that moment in time. So do you go out of your way to
23:54
spend time with experienced people, designers, contractors,
24:00
before you start the project and literally talk to them about
24:05
what they've learnt from similar projects?
24:07
Is is that how you do it? You're actually talking to them
24:09
physically? Do you bring them in to talk to
24:11
the team? How do you make it work?
24:15
I do enjoy, particularly speaking with people experience
24:18
because I know I'm going to extract a lot of good knowledge.
24:20
And it's, yeah, it's literally just just reaching out and
24:25
having conversations and talk about elements on the project,
24:29
talk about the experience, talk about how, you know, how can we
24:32
make this successful? And then you just sit there and
24:34
just listen, right? You just ask them and they've,
24:37
they're going to have a lot of knowledge in part.
24:39
And you can note down all those elements and see where those,
24:42
those sort of gems that you've received, where they're common
24:46
across different sort of topics. And then you can focus on that
24:49
element. So I, I make it, I make it a
24:54
habit to spend a lot of time with, with those people and, and
24:58
also the fact that you're, you're listening to them.
25:01
That's that builds that, that builds that collaboration.
25:04
So when there is an issue and there is a problem because
25:08
you've spent and you've invested that time when you need their
25:11
support, they are willing to go out the way to, to, to help you.
25:16
And for example, in my last project there was I spent a lot
25:19
of time seeing the one of the commercial managers who has is,
25:22
has a very rich kind of career. And towards the year end, I had,
25:28
I was, there's some metrics I was trying to hit with year end
25:31
spend. And I was this person that I'd
25:35
invest a lot of time with and spoken to.
25:37
They kind of went out of their way to really support me in that
25:41
element. And they were from the
25:42
contractor side, they were giving me within the confines of
25:45
the contract, giving me a lot of ideas on how to, you know,
25:47
accelerate spend, accelerate works, etcetera.
25:51
And I felt that that was only possible based on the
25:54
relationship I had built with that person and the, the time
25:58
that we had invested together. And then when I needed them,
26:02
they, they really kind of ought to stop and really support me.
26:04
And then when I finished that project, I remember sending an
26:07
e-mail to, to this person and their, their framework manager
26:10
and say, Oh, by the way, you know, I had really positive
26:14
interactions with this, this person that really helped me
26:16
out. And it was just kind of a good
26:18
way to to tick that element off. How do you go about asking for
26:22
help and support in the right way?
26:25
I think it comes down to trying to build that sort of the
26:29
culture of learning development support.
26:31
And if let's say, let's about a relation between the project
26:36
leader, maybe the sponsor, you can put together, you know, a
26:40
relationship where it's built upon you reporting to them on
26:44
progress, right? And within that they, they can
26:48
see that you are solving certain issues or you are progressing
26:52
elements. And as part of that, you can
26:55
include, that's where you're OK asking now the sponsor for
26:59
advice of how do I, how do I then unlock certain you know,
27:02
XYZ? Because you're not just, you're
27:03
not just bringing problems, you are showing progress and perhaps
27:07
thinking about already what potential solutions you can come
27:10
that, that you think could work and giving, giving people those
27:13
options. So therefore, you're already
27:16
coming with a potential solution.
27:20
And this it makes it easier for sponsors.
27:23
I'm using sponsors as an example, but if you went to
27:24
anyone else, say you want to go to contractor for some ideas,
27:29
come up with a few already and play it back to them and bounce
27:32
idea back over them. So therefore, if someone is
27:34
really busy and they've got a lot of things to deal with,
27:36
you're already presenting them three different options and they
27:38
and they they might say, OK, option one is brilliant and
27:41
let's go there. Or they say hybrid of option two
27:43
or three or, or they'll say, great that you thought about it.
27:47
What's about this? You've been recognised as AP Ms
27:51
Project Professional of the Year so I'm sure people listening
27:56
will want to know the secrets of your success.
27:58
So have you got any secrets of how to be successful in your
28:02
career that you could give to those listening?
28:07
OK, Build up a a really good coffee fund and when you take
28:12
people out for coffee and you'll be able to connect with a lot of
28:16
people over that. Yeah, that's, that's a good
28:20
piece of advice, yeah. Again, being you know what,
28:23
willing, willing to support others.
28:28
Try to be that leader that when you were inexperienced, you
28:32
would love to have around. And it might be the case had a
28:35
lot of great leaders and support.
28:37
And if you if you hadn't, trying to focus on trying to make
28:41
yourself as that person fathers. And I think I think I've been
28:45
successful in that, in that respect that I'm seen as someone
28:50
who has a lot of drive and tries to unlock things and push things
28:54
through. That builds credibility with
28:57
those around you, but also those who can who are more
29:02
inexperienced and you can really support them along the way.
29:07
I always tell people that I'm either working directly with me
29:10
or reporting to me that I want to get them to a place where
29:14
they, they're more successful than, than I am and they can
29:18
succeed further than I am. And I help.
29:21
I, I feel like I really, that's a good way to, to really
29:25
motivate people. And it shows that you're willing
29:28
to go that that sort of extra step and it, it builds a lot of
29:33
trust. And it also it builds that
29:36
relationship with people that you can, but then later on rely
29:40
and call upon because you're actively investing in their
29:43
development. I've always tried to find
29:46
mentors along the way. I've only really gotten to where
29:48
I am because I've had good mentors and I've actually tried
29:51
to seek, seek that out. So, so do you mean by that
29:54
you've, you've not gone through a kind of formal mentoring
29:58
programme, you've actually reached out to people and asked
30:01
them to help you? Most of the time I've just
30:03
reached out to people and identified people that I
30:06
thought, OK, I could probably learn a lot from from from this
30:09
person. And do they do they say yes
30:12
then? Yeah, I'd like people to try it
30:15
because most people are willing to, to, to provide mentorship
30:21
and, and support. I think people and when they
30:23
try, when they, when they as a mentor, you end up enjoying it
30:27
and you find that you learn a lot from your mentees as well.
30:31
So yeah, definitely just go out and reach out and try it.
30:34
And the worst thing someone could say, would say is I'm too
30:37
busy. I can't do it, but I might know
30:39
someone else who can. And that's the worst thing.
30:41
Someone might say no and then you just identify someone else.
30:44
There's so many people in an organisation with a lot of
30:47
experience that you could reach out to.
30:49
Early on in my career, when I was a graduate on an engineering
30:54
scheme, I was, I was provided a business mentor, which was,
30:57
which was good because I think at that stage maybe I wouldn't
31:00
have been as confident to reach out.
31:02
So, you know, the scheme there provided that and that was that
31:06
was really supportive. And that mentor, I'm still in
31:08
contact to until this day. There was a big gap recently and
31:12
that we, we hadn't spoken. And then recently I reached out
31:15
and I think it was like a seven-year gap and we caught up
31:18
and it was, it was almost as if we picked up where we left off.
31:22
And, and even though there was a long gap in between, I've kind
31:27
of maintain I've been able to have that relationship that's
31:31
probably going to last a lifetime.
31:33
It sounds as though you really go the extra mile and you're
31:36
there to listen to people and support them and, and then at
31:40
the same time, you're making time to learn from others.
31:43
So learn from your mentors, speak to those on the project
31:46
outside your immediate team. How do you find the time to do
31:50
all of that, and how do you manage your time?
31:54
Which has been trying to be as as organised as I can by
31:57
prioritising. I do like to prioritise and
31:59
focus on the areas where I know it's going to have the biggest
32:02
impact. Again, as a project leader in
32:06
inside and outside of delivering a physical project is being able
32:10
to prioritise and focus in the areas that you know that is
32:15
going to lead to the most benefit.
32:17
And then you can delegate out some some items I've tried to.
32:22
So that's the first step of being organised with my time,
32:25
making the most of the little time that you do have if you are
32:29
are busy making it that impactful.
32:31
So if you've got a meeting with someone, having a clear set
32:33
agenda. And if, again, if it's focused
32:37
on trying to support someone, having that the clear of your
32:40
mind and their mind so that you get the most out of that.
32:42
And for me, it's as part of my style.
32:45
I'd like to think that I've been focusing on trying to be a, a
32:51
motivator for other people as well.
32:53
So therefore I don't have to specifically allocate time to
32:56
that. It's more of a, a consequence
32:59
almost of the way that I deliver projects and the way that I work
33:03
with people. And I hope that that benefit
33:04
then is provided to others around around me.
33:08
Do you set aside a time every week or you plan what you're
33:11
doing throughout the whole week? How do you actually plan out
33:14
your time? Is that like a Sunday evening
33:16
thing or? It's good to have.
33:18
You can do this physically or or mentally having a kind of, sort
33:23
of To Do List high level and again, prioritising the elements
33:27
that you want to complete or for the week, look back at the
33:29
previous week, what you, what you got done and is to roll on
33:32
to the next week. I, this might be a very simple
33:36
advice, but my calendar, the way that I organise it, it's very
33:39
colourful and it just allows me to focus on what I needed to, to
33:45
do for the next couple of weeks and having that because I'm
33:49
quite a visual, visual person. So the high priority actions I
33:53
put on a certain colour and some of the elements are more team
33:56
focused on my calendar. It's like a purple colour.
34:01
So I know I can see the balance of physical day-to-day
34:03
activities, project related task, team related task,
34:08
business related task. And that sort of helps me look
34:12
at very visually look at it and go, is there an imbalance?
34:15
Am I focusing more on one element I need to balance more?
34:18
And I'm always just flexing that.
34:20
So if I need to do something and put some time, physical time in,
34:24
I will. So I use that quite, quite a
34:26
lot. And within that, it's important
34:28
because you mentioned about rest, I think it's very
34:30
important to make sure that there's a rest baked in for
34:33
yourself, that you have time for yourself to reflect.
34:36
Because if you're always, if you're too busy, if there are
34:39
problems that that materialise even from projects or within
34:43
your organisation, you want to be able to have that slightly
34:46
free time in order to tackle those.
34:49
So what I've seen other people do really well is they'll block
34:52
out physical time within their calendar that says do not
34:57
meetings, things like that. They have that to reflect and
35:01
just just to organise. And you can do that at the start
35:03
of the week or the end of the week, wait for your own time to
35:06
just organise your the next couple of weeks.
35:09
And within a project environment, it's like when you
35:11
look at a schedule, you've got the programme, it's you can ask
35:16
the planner to say, look, give me the two or the four week look
35:19
ahead. And you can as a, as a project
35:22
team to, to focus on the key activities within that and who's
35:27
doing what, what the fiscal plan is.
35:30
It's no different from organising your, your actual
35:32
time outside of a project. And within a project, you will
35:36
just use the schedule and you're looking at a look ahead.
35:40
And I, I employed that that sort of that same technique.
35:44
Jimmy, you've given so much great advice here.
35:47
Is there? Is there anything else you
35:49
you've learnt that you'd pass on to your peers?
35:53
Honestly, just just try to enjoy the moment as you're delivering
35:57
projects and a practical way of doing that is celebrating the
36:01
small successes along the way. Because if a project might span
36:04
1212 months, two years, three years, you don't have to wait
36:09
until you get to the the output of delivering to time cost
36:11
quality to they say that it's been successful.
36:15
I think it's celebrating the small milestones as a team
36:18
throughout. And if you can draw benefits
36:23
within the project team or those outside.
36:25
In my example of the flood defence scheme is trying to help
36:30
the residents and in celebrating that as a project team and
36:34
business team and functional teams is making sure that you
36:38
you celebrate that along the way.
36:40
And then that builds quite good memories and experiences for you
36:45
and others around you. And then try to share that.
36:49
Again, going back to to my point of everyone's got probably a
36:52
positive experience within a project environment that they
36:55
can probably share with others. Make that a habit of celebrating
37:00
successes. And if and hopefully that leads
37:03
to a positive experience and that you can then share with
37:05
others and do that cross functional, do that cross
37:08
industries and to really share that that that knowledge.
37:12
How do you celebrate successes, Jimmy?
37:15
So I used an example of when someone helped me out unlock a
37:19
commercial issue, I sent a celebratory e-mail to that
37:24
person's line manager and that that for me directly celebrated
37:29
it without it being a, a sort of a formal way of doing it.
37:33
Whenever you achieve something within a project or something's
37:36
gone well, it's trying to bring people together to try and enjoy
37:39
that moment. We spoke about having more face
37:43
to face meetings, you know, Grant, taking people out for
37:45
coffees, that sort of element, that sort of intrapersonal
37:50
relationship and development, doing that at different touch
37:53
points throughout the projects. And that's how I like to to
37:58
really add those elements in throughout.
38:01
If you are achieving a particular milestone, everyone's
38:04
worked really hard towards it. Don't forget that that might
38:07
have been stressful for the whole team.
38:08
So how do you kind of decompress, review it, speak to
38:12
people and say that we, we, we should be proud that we kind of,
38:15
we saw we really put together to achieve this element, make that
38:20
as as part of the, the project culture.
38:24
I love that we're talking about enjoying and celebrating work
38:27
because often people don't take the time to think about that or
38:31
to think that it's something to be enjoyed every day if you can
38:35
find enjoyment in it. And that's, that's so brilliant
38:38
to hear that. Absolutely.
38:40
Jimmy, I'm feeling inspired already.
38:41
I'm not even a project manager. So thank you so much for your
38:46
your time. It's been a real pleasure to
38:48
speak to you today. Thank you.
38:50
Thank you very much. Thanks again to Jimmy for
38:57
joining us and to you for listening to the APM Podcast.
39:01
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