Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Mark Dodyk about his choice of Fury from the Deep (1/6)

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Talks to Mark Dodyk about his choice of Fury from the Deep (1/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:40
Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt penknife the Doctor Who
0:44
commentary podcast, I'm Mark, do dick.
0:47
I'm back for some more being persuaded, didn't take much
0:50
persuasion. I have to admit I am here with
0:52
Jewel Ford as ever, the ever-present podcast enabling
0:57
gentleman that he is and today we're going to be going for a
1:03
wiped story. Recently animated.
1:07
I might add and we're going to see If it really F.
1:12
Well let me think if we can get fired up, get a bit Furious
1:16
about this story at all. This is the longest I've gone
1:20
without scientific on this point.
1:21
I don't look at you and I know you can do it all on
1:38
his own. So did he get the next six
1:40
episodes? It's just, you talking off you
1:41
go, you made me think of them fainting goats.
1:48
No, no when you said your back. So you think of that song I Want
1:53
You Back for More. Whatever.
1:55
I said whatever I did I didn't mean it.
2:00
Mostly I'll say that's elusive. Nicole.
2:01
I say July I'll can we just do a shower for Lucy because we love
2:05
us some English thing. Yes, we love you.
2:07
All right, that does just just that.
2:10
Okay, you need to you need to knit all of us.
2:13
The whole hand file needs to be naked in it.
2:17
All of us. The white.
2:19
You know why? You know why she's going to
2:20
characterize those? I, you know, honestly Mama might
2:24
have a massive knob, you know what, started already tangents
2:32
you have firm. You have kind of given a little
2:35
hint as to what we might be talking about state, but I'm not
2:37
sure. You said, the tile, you said
2:38
we're going to get furious. Yeah, we're going to discuss
2:42
Fury from the deep and Aunt Oneness and are it really is
2:48
still undecided about how I feel about this story.
2:52
I've watched it a couple of times recently and on each
2:56
occasion, my opinion has changed.
3:01
I'll be interested to see where it lands lost out on the same as
3:03
you. I am utterly ambivalent about
3:05
this and I don't mean I've got no opinion whatsoever.
3:08
I mean I think there's some really fantastic stuff in this
3:12
and there's some stuff that kind of doesn't really work and from
3:16
seem to see you go from one to the other.
3:18
Our and I can't find myself going.
3:20
Is this any good? Yeah, this is really good.
3:23
Hang on. Is this any good like he is
3:25
going one is really odd. Yeah.
3:28
And I think, It's I think that's the main thing to sort of Bear
3:33
in mind is the fact that it's Victor Pemberton was more
3:37
accustomed to doing radio drama. Mmm, and that's probably why
3:40
it's such a wordy story. There's a lot of dialogue but
3:44
not any sort of set pieces. There are plenty of scenes of
3:49
middle-aged white men having conversation about oil rigs,
3:53
isn't it? I'm getting very, very heated
3:55
debate it and that sort of it. This is sort of the tail end of
3:58
the season where there's A lot of directors and controllers and
4:02
people in charge of facilities getting very het up about stuff.
4:06
You know what? It reminded me of a runaway bit
4:08
of power of Kroll because that's also full of middle-aged white
4:11
men talking about oil rigs. Yes, it's just, um, but I've got
4:18
a feeling this is quite a popular story.
4:21
I think this is kind of gone down in fandom reputation as
4:26
being a bit of a classic, I think so.
4:29
Yeah. There's this, you've got your
4:30
mythologized missing Stories. The ones that are always in
4:33
people's wish lists and generally, you know, it's going
4:37
to be part of the Daleks evil of the Daleks and maybe like 10 to
4:41
Planet part 4 and and Fury from the Jeep is probably sort of
4:47
high-ranking. Certainly it's always one of the
4:49
ones that comes up quite often and I think it's obviously lived
4:52
on well in people's memories because it's one that seems to
4:56
that I think there's probably a lot of visuals.
4:59
Is that unfortunately, we were missed out on but things are
5:02
probably etched in the memories of those original viewers.
5:07
And I think when the Australian Senate Eclipse came back of all
5:11
the really fucking chili B, like, van lutyens being dragged
5:14
down that impeller Shaft or mr. Oak, and mr.
5:16
Quill gassing Maggie and I are really scary moment, so, and so
5:22
everyone's gay yet. We knew it.
5:24
We knew his one was good. Yeah.
5:26
So I sort of I mean it Animation.
5:30
We're going to be watching is probably one of the better ones.
5:33
I'd say it's pretty good. Stands up really well, but just
5:39
kind of help fantasizing about what we may have been missing
5:41
out on if we had the real story, if we had the original ganga
5:47
sound, like I really ungrateful fan now, because I do think all
5:51
these animations. We are incredibly fortunate to
5:54
have them and the time and effort.
5:55
I think, one of the commentaries I listened to with episode 2,
5:57
and that's Gerry Russell talking about, Out.
5:59
Certainly length for. They went to and the minuscule
6:02
budget budget that they had. So what they achieved with, what
6:04
they had is phenomenal, tablet on the savages.
6:08
The other day, I watch the Telly snaps and I think I got more of
6:12
an idea of what the Savages was like.
6:15
Watching the tennis that reconstruction than I am ever
6:18
going to do watching these animations, where sets a vast,
6:23
you know, the Landscapes of off this is establishing shots of
6:26
this enormous facility which I don't think In the original.
6:30
Yeah. I think I find I probably find
6:34
the same when I watch the tell us that reconstruction lives on
6:38
the Blu-ray. It was probably the first thing
6:41
that I'd really properly engaged with the story and got a feel
6:44
for it because it's one that I have no experience in many
6:47
different mediums. Haven't heard the Tom Baker.
6:49
Narrated version First. Is that the dragon teen or
6:53
Asian? I did it yes.
6:55
Haha with it, odd scripting and then obviously Freezer Haines.
7:00
Did the narration and Nary an updated narrated version years
7:03
later of, no, read the novelization in prep for this.
7:07
See, the tell us now. Okay, let's stop there thinking,
7:10
because I've never read the victim to novelisation, which I
7:13
believe is the longest one. Yes, for some reason, it's a
7:17
bumper Edition. Okay, don't think it justifies
7:22
it somehow alter, what does it bump it out with No, I'm not
7:28
really. It's quite enjoyed.
7:30
I finished it. And I thought, you know?
7:31
What, if Terrance dicks had done this, he would have told the
7:33
story in exactly the same manner but faster.
7:38
Later just had they were totally that a way of condensing down a
7:40
single episode into three chapters easily.
7:43
Yeah. And Victor Pemberton just is not
7:47
added a lot to it. It just seems to just go on and
7:51
on and on and on and it didn't feel like it was too much of a
7:55
challenge to read it. That it was too lengthy but I
7:58
was just reading it going. This could be brisker, this
8:00
could be PC. ER, but I suppose that's that
8:05
probably comes down to the fact that he's writing out scenes
8:08
where we've got lots of men being angry and shouting over an
8:11
impeller shaft. It's I think there's, there's,
8:14
there's there's like we say there's probably highs and lose
8:16
to this story. So, it's quite a, which is
8:19
really why we're both a bit ambivalent about the moment in
8:21
our feelings? Well, I think as well, like is
8:24
in the unfortunate position. In of being the last of the base
8:28
Under Siege stories, in a season of Base, obviously stories.
8:32
And the last of the stories with an angry petulant base commander
8:38
in a season of storing, we've angered petulant base
8:41
Commander's and I think Robin Robinson is an interesting
8:45
character. I think he's really well played
8:46
by Victor Madden but he's leader Clinton he's you know, he's all
8:51
the others Hobson. Absolutely.
8:52
Yeah. From the Moon bar?
8:54
Yeah, that's something that for the last. 12 to 18 months that
8:58
the viewers have been getting every Saturday night with a
9:01
couple of exceptions. So there's that I think there's
9:04
it. It's no fault of this story
9:08
really, but it's just repetitious by that stage but it
9:13
is worth saying as well. I think that everybody involved
9:15
in this and I, you can see in Italian snaps as well one.
9:18
They save some money for this one and two, from just from
9:22
those brief bits of footage that you can see See, I think you
9:27
David probably see you. David, you lawyer?
9:30
Yeah. You David maybe did a really
9:33
bang-up job with the trench this.
9:36
So there's a lot like you said there's a lot we're not seeing
9:39
that. I think actually visually this
9:41
probably was one of the most impressive Productions of the
9:44
year and despite whatever you or I might say about their base
9:48
Under Siege Formula One, it was a success because the Raiders
9:51
were good this year and to it did mean that they spend their
9:55
money wisely. Early on having these fantastic
9:57
sets because there was just one say and that save money for you
10:02
know, fantastic location work at the episode 1 of enemy of the
10:05
world or all the stuff by the seaside in this or down the
10:09
Quarry in Tomb of the Cybermen. You know, there was there was
10:13
some money on the screen in season 5.
10:15
Hmm. And I think it's Really it's
10:19
definitely too season that I think because there's so little
10:23
to show of it. And a lot of its now animated,
10:25
it's probably being discussed again, in a way that it hasn't
10:29
been for a long time because I died.
10:31
And my understanding, is that in the 60s in the 80s, they see
10:35
read this season was completely mythologized by fans.
10:39
Here was the height of Doctor Who Eliza who like this anymore,
10:43
you know, like it wasn't sick, the monster era, you know, and
10:47
at that point, how many are Episodes of existed one in the
10:50
world. I think the one of where the
10:52
fear there was very little to show for it was funny, as well
10:55
as the two EPS, the to nearly complete stories that came back
10:59
one isn't a massive anomaly in the season and as enemy of the
11:02
world, which is, you know, this, a globe-trotting political
11:06
thriller and the other one is where the fear, which is
11:09
probably the ultimate based on the stage of the season and
11:12
executes so brilliantly, everyone's going, okay?
11:16
So this season was every bit as good as sweet.
11:18
With the way it was going to be, oh, absolutely, I think it's
11:22
probably has lived up to a lot of people's expectations, I
11:25
think. Kim even Tomb of the Cybermen
11:27
when that came back. A lot of fans that had seen it
11:31
or had grown up being told. I am using at wars were slightly
11:34
disappointed when it was returned because it was hyped to
11:39
such a great degree but I didn't know it was missing when it came
11:43
out on VHS, it said on the VHS cover it was missing and was
11:47
like that. Don't make sense to me, but I
11:49
was 45 years old going on holding it.
11:51
It's right in front of me. I put it on and I enjoyed it
11:54
enormously. I've got the only copy is the
11:57
huh and so for me I still think the Tomb of the Cybermen stands
12:04
up. Amazingly.
12:04
Well whereas some other people have gone on a we've got the
12:06
visuals, it's not what was in my head but because there's a few
12:10
dog she affects guess what, folks.
12:11
This is classic Doctor Who this is gonna be a few dodgy effects.
12:15
Yeah, and it look, I'll tell you what.
12:18
Should we go ahead and watch it? Should we shoot?
12:20
Because we honestly, we could probably keep talking probably.
12:23
Yeah, probably should talk over the action.
12:27
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, what I mean is what we're
12:30
here to do and it was the end of the day?
12:32
Yeah. Well alright, then go for it.
12:39
Are you ready? It's question.
12:40
Ready. I'm hovering on the button.
12:42
Have you ever ask every guest is now you ever listen to one of
12:45
these things alongside an episode.
12:48
Laughs. No actually, but I don't want
12:50
that. Once I thought that anyone does
12:53
it, I think the thing is I know a lot of these stories so well
12:56
that I know exactly what people are talking about import bit and
12:59
if you externally somebody suddenly goes home, I love this
13:01
pic coming up. I'm sitting there going home to
13:03
the pit where the I know what's coming, but you know what?
13:06
I thought herself to a day? Well, because most people
13:08
probably just listen to this as a podcast.
13:10
That means it's got re-listen ability because then you can go
13:12
what a, what I'm going to put them all on alongside.
13:14
The once, the whole library of have summer block, penknives are
13:17
out. Then you can watch the whole of
13:18
dr. Moreau we've as rabbit in over
13:21
it. Yay.
13:22
It's a legacy. That's your legacy.
13:24
Joel? What?
13:26
Rabbit in you? Never tell me that.
13:28
Lets say a rabbit in and sex gags.
13:32
Okay. I can't let see in a fight,
13:36
four, three, two, one. Off.
13:41
We go that, you know, brick box. It's only got the Black and
13:43
White Version. It's all good because I've opted
13:46
for the black and white version. Oh fantastic, it feels more
13:50
authentic. That way.
13:51
But I cut you off to say, we should probably go into the
13:54
episode but you were actually about start saying something.
13:56
Do you mean what it was? No, sorry.
14:01
I think fought. I'm so sorry.
14:04
Well, one of that is stunning opening of the TARDIS being
14:07
craned onto the sea I don't know how I feel about that one.
14:12
It's really all it's because I think it because it's one of the
14:16
clips that exists. Hmm.
14:19
And it's very it's a very wobble.
14:20
Some Tardis. Well, it was on a helicopter
14:25
hanging from a wire. I think it was a small town, it
14:27
wasn't. It wasn't like a it's like a
14:30
quarter size or something. But I don't you cop to pray as
14:33
high as Patrick troughton, a devil walking in the dinghy,
14:35
don't you? Yes, which is quite nice.
14:38
I think that I like the fact that they have to rush or more
14:41
than the TARDIS landing like that and maybe it maybe it's
14:44
just ingrained in me that the Artists should always be of all
14:46
back in mix effect not okay. Descending from the heavens
14:52
there. You know, when they play about
14:53
with that, remember within, it's one of the MARC, Lee bright
14:55
ones, where there's hottest Goes Pop, just vanishes.
14:58
Yes, I'm colony and species. That's right.
15:01
And in our brain of morbius when it goes, bang at the end.
15:04
Yes. And just I like that.
15:06
That's that's a nice guy, but I'll accept that one because
15:09
it's a gag enough Doctor Who stories take place on beaches.
15:13
You know, I think beaches are ripe for suspense. yes, and
15:16
horror and, you know, atmosphere I think it's that the thought of
15:24
sort of mist. And if you know, foam rolling
15:27
off the beach, there's all sorts of mysteries and things that
15:29
could be accomplished by suppose.
15:32
So often Doctor, Who was always shot in the midst of winter as
15:36
this one was, and being on a beach that time years, probably
15:40
pretty thankless. I think it one story I've done
15:43
beach in the middle of winter and that's cause of action.
15:45
Also, dungeon is absolutely. Yeah, it's Christ that poor.
15:49
I'll trample heads up in the I see Alayk.
15:53
Ya don't to be Pig been Josh well our war.
15:58
So can I set my store immediately with the dr.
16:01
Jamie and Victoria because it's not my favorite line up at this
16:04
area because I think the doctor gently and slowly is just about
16:07
the most perfect line, huh? There is I agree with you,
16:10
wholeheartedly on that front but I think they're they're strong
16:14
as individual characters. The dr.
16:15
Jamie Ansari was nothing Victoria's quite a weak
16:18
character. However, in terms of chemistry,
16:21
I think these three have got it in space and when they're all
16:24
together, mmmh fucking gold. Yeah, I think the these I think
16:30
they all sort of lift each other up and because they've got a
16:34
great chemistry, it is probably why I lived on so much in the
16:39
memory of fans. I imagine I am because I think
16:43
certainly before Amy the world and the way the fear came back
16:47
that Victoria was a companion that was very much like look
16:51
down upon because all we had were the ordeals, the
16:54
recordings. And all she does is Scream were
16:57
missing out on so much of the character moments going to
17:03
contradict myself already. I still don't think she is the
17:06
strongest of companions by any means.
17:08
Certainly my opinion. Went from holding her in very
17:12
low regard. To Felicia's more mid-ranking.
17:15
Now, having seen more of her stuff for real, now, what
17:20
baffles me is. I think she has a couple of
17:22
strong stories. I think she's pretty well served
17:24
in term of the size of and she picks up his still shoots a
17:27
cybermat, you know, and she's having a bit of fun by play
17:31
with. Was it Captain Hopper?
17:33
Yes, I think that. And then and then they suddenly
17:36
hit this sort of, she's the victim of the piece from sort of
17:40
the ice warriors, on Words that she just sniffling and screaming
17:43
and running away and and that bleeds into web of fear as well.
17:48
And then into this and I'm just like, there was Potential.
17:52
I think of this Victorian Miss with a bit of gumption and you
17:55
know that potential is. That's Charlie Paula's.
17:58
Yes, absolutely. And traveling polarities are
18:01
Edwardian adventurous, fabulous, but got a lot of been like this.
18:07
Yeah. Just screaming her head off,
18:09
every five people. Every totally is really
18:13
interesting because I think obviously some actors bring
18:16
something to the characterization as well.
18:20
And I think Her Walling was a very young actress and it's
18:25
really too harsh to see that she's probably miscast.
18:28
But I don't, I think she's probably one of the weakest
18:31
companion, castings of the original series.
18:35
I don't disagree with that. And you know what?
18:37
I'm not gonna lie to me because by all accounts to everyone in
18:40
was a wonderful person. Yes has nothing but good things
18:43
about to conventions. I've had wonderful stories about
18:46
her saying, fuck the fans. I'm going for a fag and a drink.
18:51
She's house. There's a wonderful story in
18:53
Mary's household, Barbara fee about her going off into the eye
18:57
of a storm when they were all told to stay on the boat and she
18:59
didn't hear the town away and came back as a drowned rat like
19:02
by. Oh, look at her.
19:03
She's wonderful wonderful, but the strongest actress probably
19:06
not. Yeah.
19:08
But, you know, you know, when you can kind of feel how much
19:12
actors love working together and about that.
19:16
But I think you get it with like David Tennant.
19:18
Catherine Tate in series for you, get it with the best of me.
19:21
Smith Karen Gillan, and Arthur darvill.
19:23
Yeah, in series 5. But I think with these free,
19:27
they just loved being together and you can really tell when
19:31
they get there, they're sort of 30 seconds.
19:34
Oh definitely. And that's true of a lot of
19:36
tardis teams. I think most doctors have if you
19:40
don't a companion or a group of companions that they really just
19:43
seem to gel with and are the ones that live on in fan memory
19:48
and in The Wider of yours you viewing public.
19:51
Except memory. So you know ja G his sort of
19:53
inextricably linked with the third doctor.
19:56
And the you know you've got the original Tardis team is no it's
20:01
the sort of thing. It's the Pinnacle for that Yura,
20:03
isn't it? Although personally I think
20:05
Vicki's base although I forgot I think those are the key and
20:08
Barbara doctor team is the Pinnacle.
20:11
I it's so strong, it's so good and it's I think it's true of
20:15
every doctor compare. There's a there's at least one
20:17
doctor companion combination for each doctor.
20:20
That is like The peak ball this way.
20:23
When is that second dr. Jamie Zoe.
20:26
They are like three kids go in the universe and they're always
20:30
bickering with each other. Our love it.
20:32
Oh yeah. And that was one of that was one
20:34
of the TARDIS teams that I came to first as a kid because I had
20:38
the Mind Rubber and The Invasion and seeds of death all and video
20:42
and the joy of that Trio. Just oh, there's what's not to
20:48
love about them. Now, ask you a question.
20:50
Hmm. What year is this saying?
20:54
Is this the start of the near future?
20:59
The scenarios I think is the future and especially the
21:01
seventies, I think. Yeah, but you know what's
21:04
different from this to your normal trout and saying the
21:09
future story is in those stories.
21:11
They're always making a big deal of.
21:13
Look at this great bit of technology or look at this thing
21:15
on the moon. Obviously, they're not making a
21:17
big show of it here. This is.
21:18
This could technically be told when it was filmed in the yeah,
21:22
the late 60s. But I think it is supposed to be
21:27
like the mid 70s or something like that.
21:30
I think so I think because they're the time the gas Fields
21:36
were only just being explored. I don't think we've quite
21:39
achieved bringing onto land or whatever.
21:41
The process is our I don't understand these things.
21:44
Even though they showed about impaler's for most of this next
21:46
six episodes, I'd still don't understand.
21:50
But I think it was, it was just sort of a naturally extrapolated
21:54
or just pop it up. Few years in the future.
21:55
So it's plausible that they were at by that stage but this is all
21:58
happening and it's all under way.
22:01
Can I ask you another question? Yes, so I kind of like mock
22:06
topic masterminds but the villain of the piece in this is
22:12
like sentient seaweed all sentient phone isn't a ha.
22:17
Yeah, I mean do you find sort of roughing white substances coming
22:22
at you particularly sinister? It would really depend on the
22:27
context to have to say, Well done, your dogs are all that one
22:32
brilliantly, it's an odd choice though, right?
22:38
Apparently I was sort of thing, read the information text, it
22:42
was a latter decision. It was more a case of they'd
22:47
already script of the story and they said to Victor Pemberton
22:50
working on the route during the Reed raft.
22:52
Can you maybe kinda get some form in here somewhere?
22:56
So it was totally a last-minute decision.
22:59
It wasn't because I got that phone machine guy and cheap.
23:01
You know, you're going to pump it full of full of foam.
23:04
So, we need you to what was it? Just seaweed and start off with.
23:07
Yeah, it's just meant to be sentient.
23:09
Esteemed, that's all choices. Well, wait a minute, and I
23:13
wonder how it would how By all accounts.
23:17
It's this story as transmitted was very atmospheric Deborah
23:25
Watling, because she wrapped up on the series and it was being
23:32
recorded on Saturdays at this point.
23:34
So she never actually saw it most of our stories being
23:36
transmitted so she actually is able to watch her last two or
23:38
three episodes go out. She recalled being scared by it
23:44
laterally and said, you know, children would have been freaked
23:48
out by this. They would have really enjoyed
23:50
this and I can see the neighborhood.
23:52
So I actually honest those sequences with open coil and
23:55
we'll get there. But those two men coming into
23:58
her house, overpowering her and seeming to enjoy it.
24:02
I mean, it's pretty scary and Paul's, it's really very
24:06
Sinister and I can only imagine how it was realized.
24:12
And what impact it would have had?
24:13
Because I, it's one of the few Doctor Who stories that my mum
24:19
has a recollection of having seen as a child, okay?
24:23
Because we've used to go to the beach when I was little and I
24:25
didn't really know what Fury of from the deep at that point and
24:28
she'd always be like, oh, no, it's Doctor Who they're see form
24:31
of. I was like, what is she
24:33
referring to? This means nothing to me
24:35
whatsoever. And then years later, clicked,
24:38
and I was like, she must be remembering this story because
24:41
She was about six or seven when this season went out and all of
24:46
her memories of Doctor Who really revolve around Cybermen
24:49
and C4 and a Salyers. Those are the sort of things
24:53
that ingrained themselves in her young head.
24:57
So it's quite a hint. I can imagine there's a lot of
25:00
wonderful visuals that unfortunately we're denying
25:03
initially was thinking seaweed really sentient seaweed and then
25:07
I was remembering I'll show you live by the beach every time you
25:10
go in to see and you touch a bit of seaweed you re coil and
25:14
you're going well is that disgusting slimy substance
25:16
around my feet? And then I'm like Ashley it's
25:20
just like a creature with tentacles, isn't it?
25:22
That's what the weed is. So it can burst from a pipe
25:25
which I think it does. It can come through the ceiling,
25:29
you know, that you and I think in the last episode, the whole
25:34
of the controller is just full of foam and it's riving around
25:37
like some horrible monster and I'm like, okay.
25:39
That's actually that is pretty gross.
25:42
Yeah, I imagine because a lot of that we've been shot on film as
25:45
well. I imagine it was really well
25:47
realized so they would be able to.
25:50
I think they were probably able to cut between shots, so you
25:52
would get the most effective teex so it's one of those ones.
25:57
So I think that's why it's one. I would love to see what because
26:00
there's a couple of shots of that last episode of them up in
26:03
front of our colored, that lit up map and it is shot on film
26:07
like you said, and it's so clean and beautiful and this looked
26:11
amazing. Yes, Greek.
26:13
Yeah. Well, I would like to say, okay,
26:15
because as we've been talking, I've been noticing all the
26:17
establishing shots of the base and some of them done from
26:22
behind the cliffs and things like that.
26:24
Like, they've added a lot of atmosphere to this.
26:27
And it's like Gary Russell said in the commentary, we delivering
26:31
the visuals that they would have liked to have been able to
26:33
deliver if they could have, if they had the technology to do
26:36
Drone footage and things like that, that's what they would
26:38
have done. But I think that is reasonable
26:40
enough because I meet a mic and some fans have got themselves
26:46
very het up about the fact that they're not slavish Lee trying
26:51
to recreate things from camera scripts.
26:54
But there's certain things that you'll never quite Be able to
26:57
recreate anybody. There are no good people to
26:59
create the atmosphere of this story to the same degree in
27:01
animation, they're doing in a different aspect ratio.
27:05
There's all sorts of little differences.
27:07
I am their silences that they probably don't know how to fill.
27:11
So they've had to guess. It's it's the best.
27:14
It's an educated guess of how the story would have looked and
27:17
with some added wisdom bangs and visuals.
27:20
It's why not. If you can add those Wizards and
27:23
things like with the macro Tara well stablishing shots of the
27:26
colony. Micro picking up poly.
27:28
Like if you can make it look a bit cinematic and deliver it to
27:31
an audience in a way that the current, you know, modern-day
27:34
audience fight through it. Why would you do that?
27:37
Exactly. It's the only thing, you know,
27:38
might be spitting out, it's called Flakes and saying, well,
27:41
that's not how I remember it, you know, but, but we all know
27:45
the memory cheeks. Exactly.
27:48
And he's always angry about something and he exactly, so if
27:51
his knickers, aren't in a bunch, he's not happy.
27:54
So some of the most entertaining tweet something, know your claw.
27:57
Gosh. Yes I have and more block
27:59
capitals that he uses the better.
28:02
Now I will say, you know, like we said about Victoria
28:05
sniffling. Yeah, actually he's really well.
28:09
Here one has, scream is used in a brilliant way and if it's 06
28:14
car but to there's a very good reason why she's so scared for
28:19
out this story, isn't it? What she's deciding to leave.
28:26
You know. So this is her exit story.
28:29
And you know what, I think they do weave in some really lovely
28:33
character moments for our and this a bit in the about know, is
28:36
three or four where she has a conversation with Jamie and he's
28:39
trying to fob were off again, you know, why do you keep saying
28:42
about how awful it is like, it's always awful.
28:46
You know like yeah I think it's well done and well paced and
28:51
well plays. Yeah.
28:52
And I like the fact that it is sawn sort of through the story.
28:56
The fact that she is not content with this life, I think there's
29:01
even mentions of it in the way the fear as well.
29:03
She she goes on about not be, you know, she's sick of being so
29:07
scared all the time. So it's it's quite nice for a
29:12
companion, departure story, to actually have some thought, put
29:15
into it because quite but, you know, the 60 stories in
29:18
particular, you've got something.
29:19
I've got wonderful exits in others that seem either.
29:23
Completely unrealized, you know, it's just a case of all.
29:26
Well, do just not coming back or, you know, been probably just
29:30
walk off you today. It's it's nice that they've
29:33
given her an exit, but also they knew it was coming.
29:37
So I'd rather have this than Ben and Polly like you say, where
29:42
they just pop up one saying ago. Well, we're saying goodbye.
29:45
Yeah, I think it's a shame when you've got characters that
29:49
people have been who have been invested in and you followed for
29:53
a long. Time have a thought of this sort
29:54
of offhand or unreasonable, you know, a departure that just
29:59
doesn't feel right for them. but it's it's just part of the show,
30:06
isn't it? Always changes and I think the
30:08
neat the speed of the production as well man, that sometimes the
30:12
decisions were being made with little or no time to prepare.
30:17
So it's a shame in it that I think it probably it's a diss,
30:22
they do that. They do some of the cast a
30:24
disservice by not giving them the same dose they deserve.
30:28
I think there's only one of a companion that gets an exit as
30:33
well sort of seed into there. Final story and that's 20 grand
30:37
in the green deaf. I think that's that's not really
30:39
well done as well, possibly a drink as well.
30:42
I feel like in life shock, like the he has that route the
30:44
beginning, I want to go home and you're like oh no all's good.
30:48
They've made up and you're like okay so he's going to integrate
30:50
now and then he's killed. Yeah, like it's weird spoiler.
30:54
Oops. I like I like Tegan's departure
30:58
and I know that it's a slightly divisive one with some fans.
31:01
A lot of people, some people think it comes from nowhere.
31:05
Makes no sense. But Tegan is among the most
31:08
impulsive of companions. She's had like a really crap day
31:12
and she just goes, I've had enough of this, I'm sure he's
31:16
worse off the sidemen, get massacred on that board in 500.
31:20
The whole of the sea bass be massacred in Warriors of the
31:23
deep. And now, resurrection of the
31:25
Daleks, the biggest is the reservoir dogs Massacre.
31:27
Yeah. And she's just come straight
31:29
from Frontiers. She's probably not slept in two
31:31
or three days when she said. So at the end, it's not being.
31:35
Fun. She's basically there to case of
31:40
Amazon is just around the corner.
31:42
I'm going to get any better exactly when it's around the
31:44
doctors, got to be stronger than you and a few stories time.
31:47
Exactly me as well be somebody else or you know.
31:50
But I suppose that's that's her. She's basically saying what
31:53
Victoria saying here isn't it is that I am not enjoying this
31:57
anymore. Yeah it's like it's definitely
32:02
something that some companions thrive on and others.
32:05
Indoor firing is is the next two stories are the wheel in space
32:10
and the dominators and those two are scary at all.
32:13
Exactly. She probably had a lovely time
32:15
on their peaceful planet of donkeys.
32:18
Hang out with a Dawson's, you know.
32:20
It's a few political debates. Uh-huh.
32:22
Yes. Born some lovely frocks here of
32:26
cartons. Oh good.
32:29
We had talked about any of the base Personnel.
32:30
Yeah, well, we got hardly supposed to get for one.
32:34
Yes, that's Not use other all up litter litter, put my head back
32:38
in her. Let's not use up all our
32:41
material yet because there's some actors I'd really like to
32:45
talk about. I'd like to wait until now
32:46
ponary one point. Yeah absolutely Caesar still
32:51
wall is me. If he is he always please.
32:56
A fairly straight actor. It's Annie always please.
33:00
It with complete seriousness. There's other factors that come
33:03
into dr. Hayoon plea up a bit and have a
33:07
bit of it's obvious that they're having a bit of fun at our
33:10
expense or getting a bit, too carried away with it all but he
33:13
always takes it. Absolutely seriously and all
33:16
those rules this is General Carrington in death to the
33:19
Daleks and and a pair of cruel even when he's painted green and
33:22
he's got dreadlocks, okay, if everyone is got going for that
33:26
tentacle or go Almighty, crawl. Front of you, it's open.
33:31
And that's the funniest thing, I've always that, it's the
33:34
captain mannering affected. It's taking it so seriously,
33:36
it's hilarious. Oh yes.
33:38
And it's you got, he got to respect somebody who can do that
33:42
with utter conviction and you know, like if you're gonna have
33:46
scenes of a lot of middle-aged white men, arguing then find
33:51
some bloody good access to do it and they are actors.
33:54
Absolutely I imagine it would have been really compelling
33:56
because you've got somebody like Victor imagine As well.
33:59
In that combination, he's great and are earlier in the season.
34:03
When you've had a piece of art worth in the ice Warriors that
34:09
is one of that such a coup for the production team at that
34:12
time. And if it wasn't for him, I
34:14
would find watching the ice Warriors almost completely
34:17
unbearable but he absolutely convinced of that bark worth and
34:21
Salas have had some a relationship a lot of it Springs
34:26
from because there's so much chemistry between those two
34:28
Acts. There's some some very unspoken
34:34
tension going on there. I'm wondering if trout was a bit
34:37
of a drawer actually because trial was the doctor and he's
34:41
was a widely respected actor that some of these sort of
34:44
burning press law, you know, bark worth victim at and we're
34:48
going to ride. Yeah, well have will do this,
34:50
you know? Yeah, I'm butting heads with
34:52
growling. Oh, definitely.
34:54
I think it's by that by your five years into the sea.
34:58
Series, the show is starting to get a little Kashi being
35:01
involved in Doctor Who already. It's got there.
35:05
You know, I'm only doing it for the kids, you know, my kids.
35:07
See. I really need to be in Doctor
35:08
Who that's that. Those stories are already
35:10
starting at that stage in the series history.
35:14
And it is a well-established show.
35:16
At this point, isn't it? You know, why not be here in the
35:19
ratings? It was getting sort of in season
35:22
2. I think some parts of five were
35:24
getting sort of a million viewers.
35:26
Wow, it's still performing pretty well at this stage and I
35:30
feel like there was a there was almost like, yeah, we can look
35:32
back now at the creative choice of having that formula in season
35:36
5. But I think an audience watching
35:38
at the time, there is something quite comforting, it's like
35:41
this. Why we watch procedurals and
35:43
sitcoms and things like that? That you go back to our show
35:46
because you kind of know what you're going to get and at this
35:50
era of Television is very formulaic.
35:53
Anyways, look at the prisoner, The Avengers the very much of
35:58
the same format over and over and over again week after week,
36:00
after week, and we're still enormously popular.
36:05
But what's interesting is in you, then you get season six.
36:07
Now, there is a bit of a peek. I think around the time of the
36:11
crow sobs, I think Roshan's episode 1 gets nine million
36:14
viewers. Oh, and then it do waves and
36:17
season six is far less formulaic and far more experimental and I
36:21
think people were going for what the hell is this?
36:23
The space pirates, you know, and it's weird because it's doctor
36:29
who is Ever Changing and it will have Peaks and troughs in
36:32
ratings and in popularity and different production, teams and
36:36
script editors, bring different things to it.
36:39
And it just shows you how much They are three years of training
36:44
differ. You know you've got you've got
36:46
the fifth year that seems very formulaic formulaic and you've
36:49
got the sixth, were you actually don't know what length.
36:52
The next story is going to be. You don't know where they're
36:54
going to wind up the stories. It's great.
36:58
And I quite like that that's probably the template that John
37:01
nathan-turner. Then took forward in the 80s
37:03
where you never really had two stories alike in a row.
37:06
It was love that about the AC. So in terms of you never know
37:11
what you're gonna get into Was of narrative and setting but
37:14
also in terms of quality. Yeah.
37:17
Like I think the series season 5 is pretty consistently.
37:21
It's competent. It's always good.
37:23
Yeah, I'm times is excellent other times, it's just good.
37:27
Well, shoot, I don't think there's a single J&T season.
37:30
Maybe one or two, where you just say it's always extremely
37:34
competently done. Yeah, there's all there's always
37:37
a clunker in the mix own way. Yeah, well we should what that
37:40
clunker is is awful. Debatable.
37:43
Absolutely. It's all relative.
37:44
There are some stories that sir you know there's there's there's
37:48
contributors to have found that are great.
37:49
Champions of stories that other people have not got the time of
37:53
day for and somebody the other day, you know, Champions time
37:57
lash exactly. And I love time wash.
38:00
I think it's one of my faves, but a Madness shared by two
38:04
then, yeah, exactly. And that too.
38:07
I'm sure it's fine. We're all, we've all got our
38:10
little are quirks. I did that happen.
38:17
We were too busy narrow in a way.
38:18
I'll tell you what. That is a good Cliffhanger.
38:20
I think I would. Yeah, a good ol Victoria
38:25
screamed to all because they get out.
38:27
Don't they? If she know she's been locked in
38:29
by mr. Oak or mr.
38:31
Quill one of them. Yeah, and she's cornered.
38:34
Yeah. And we still at this point
38:35
though, really, no war. The the monasteries and a no
38:40
more starts to emerge and I know on the Telly snaps, you do see
38:42
it coming through. The pipes are at her and the
38:46
kids wandering down, go, what the fuck is it?
38:48
Oh, no! Victoria stuck in the dark
38:49
trapped and it's imagery like that your left hanging onto for
38:53
a week, just like get rid of versus when annoying, you know,
39:02
but let's be honest, if there's one thing this season and this
39:06
era, Gets right, is the scarce? Yes.
39:12
And I think I think Doctor Who you need to get the balance.
39:17
Absolutely, right? I think there should always be
39:19
humor, but they need to always be scared as well.
39:22
I mean, even in Seasons, like, season 24, that sort of
39:26
ostensibly very light. And comedic, you've still got
39:31
things that are jumping out on people and, and trying, you
39:33
know, they've got atmospheric stuff going on in Europe.
39:36
It's getting the That's absolutely right.
39:38
Is really key to talk to you because I think if it goes all
39:41
out in one direction or the other, it's usually much more
39:45
divisive. But if you've got a bit of the
39:47
each, your honor winner, I think it's not always like the obvious
39:52
case as well. I don't think like some of the
39:54
bits in the trout layer that really get me.
39:57
I like this happen to him, the sidemen where they all are down
40:00
in the tombs and their Dash up up through the hatch and then
40:03
that Simon comes out after him and he's holding onto the hatch.
40:07
And they just about get it closed and then suddenly starts
40:10
punching a and I'm like, Jesus Christ.
40:12
This thing is unrelenting, you know, that's that's just great
40:16
and I think especially when you go into season six as well and
40:20
you've got things like the main draw bar, some of the visuals in
40:23
that and those Cliffhangers, it's all really quirky and mad
40:27
and wildin out there, but that first Cliffhanger spinning into
40:29
the void, you've got Medusa the next, you know, you've got
40:33
unicorn stampeding. It says you're awfully decent
40:38
snow and I feel like there's this in the seat of death.
40:41
Thus, the shots of the ice Warrior come in towards the
40:43
camera in silhouette with the sun behind him, that really
40:46
effective. It's a In web of fear, where
40:49
they go into, they Soldier, I think goes into the web and you
40:54
just hear this like horrible scream and then they pull the
40:58
rope and now he comes just covered in the web and it's
41:00
like, you don't know what he's been through.
41:02
But yeah, fuel for the imagination.
41:05
They just had it. Whatever it was when it comes to
41:07
Art Fear Factor, they just had it in the trout, in era.
41:10
Oh, 100%. Well, should we watch some more
41:13
than live? So to think we better?
41:15
Yeah, let's do it. In web of fear, where they go
40:50
into, they Soldier, I think goes into the web and you just hear
40:54
this like horrible scream and then they pull the rope and now
40:58
he comes just covered in the web and it's like, you don't know
41:01
what he's been through. But yeah, fuel for the
41:04
imagination. They just had it.
41:05
Whatever it was when it comes to Art Fear Factor, they just had
41:08
it in the trout, in era. Oh, 100%.
41:12
Well, should we watch some more than live?
41:13
So to think we better? Yeah, let's do it.