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In Two Minds · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Me podcast, Muma Me your
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters. This
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on Patterns are what keepers grounded, the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: familiar rhythms that shape our routines and relationships. When they're good,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: they bring comfort, joy in a sense of home, and honestly,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: you just can't get enough of them.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: We were going on dates and eating out every couple
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: of nights. We were hanging out with all of my friends.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: He was continuously buying me flowers, sending me flowers to
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: my work. He would take me to gigs and to
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: the movies, and we were absolutely just obsessed with each other.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: But the thing about patterns is not all of them
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: are good. Some sneak up on you, starting small, barely
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: noticeable at first, Then before you realize it, they've taken hold,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and suddenly your whole life can feel like it's been
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: turned upside down.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I remember the moment he got home. We were fighting.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: He was instantly getting aggressive. He'd moved all his belongings
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: out of our bedroom into the room downstairs, the spare room,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: and it was like there were two separate people living
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: in the house.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: When I got home, I'm Georgia Love and this is
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: everyone has an ex Come with me as we dive
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: into a collection of unconventional stories about relationships past through
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the eyes and the hearts of the very people who
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: lived them. Meet Kate, self proclaimed perpetually single and perfectly
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: fine with it at the ohso wise age of twenty two,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: she wasn't exactly out there searching for the one. But
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: dear listener, we both know what happens next. A casual
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: scroll one night, and boom, a guy slides into a DMS.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: His name was Ben. I was very happy on my own,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: very happy at living with my cat. I was definitely
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: in my just single girl era and really comfortable and independent.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I had a really great, stable job and really really
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: supportive large friendship circles. So for me, I was always
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: the one that would be the person that's third wheeling
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: or fifth Wheeling or organizing the Taco Tuesdays, and wasn't
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: really searching for a relationship at that point in my life.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I think I'd been on dating apps a couple of
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: times and not really had much success. I don't think
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I'd ever even been on a real first date at
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: that point. So when Ben slid into my DMS. I
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: was really nicely surprised. I didn't know who he was.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I actually thought he could be a catfish because he
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: didn't have his first name in his profile at all.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: It wasn't in his bio, it wasn't in his username.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I just had a couple of mutual followers with him.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: He actually DM me asking who my secret Sanna was
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: and how many I had. I think I'd posted that
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: it was Christmas time at work and I was doing
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Secret Sander with my team, and he replied to my story,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I believe. And I remember just striking up the conversation
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: with him, asking my friend, Hey, who is this guy?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Is he a catfish? Is he even real? And she said, oh,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I know him from work. He's cute, he's very nice.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: You should speak to him. And I remember, as that
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: day progressed, we had some banter. He was at his
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: work Christmas party that evening and he asked me what
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I was doing. I said, I'm watching Gilmore Girls, and
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I remember he made a joke about loving Lorelei or
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: something like that, and then he said he wanted to
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: come and watch Gilmore Girls with me, and me being
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: in my single era, I thought, you know what, my
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: friend has cleared the fact that he's real. I'll just
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: let him come over. He did come over, and he
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: had had a little bit to drink, but not too much,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: and I remember we just sat on my couch and
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: talked for hours. One thing led to another, and I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: remember he stayed over the next morning. He was really
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: really sweet. We were intimate again, and he was very complimentary.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: He made me breakfast in my own kitchen, and he
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: realized that I was vegetarian and he was vegan, and
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: we were really excited about that, as not many people
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: we knew were at the time, and it all just
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: kind of started from there. He messaged me, I think
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: maybe an hour or two after he left my house
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: to go. He had a second job on the weekends
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: in retail, and he messaged me an hour or two
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: after he left, saying how adorable he thought I was,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: and how I had a cute cat, and he wanted
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to see me again. Anyway. I was buzzing. I had
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: a little crush immediately. He was really tall and tattooed,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: very fit as well, and so funny. I could just
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: tell the moment I met him that he was really charismatic,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: really funny, and really easy to talk to, so I
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: instantly also wanted to see him again. I remember I
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: went to lunch with my friends that day and I
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: was telling them all about him, and they said, this
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: is so cute. We've never seen me like this about
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: a man. So I was very, very excited when that
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: night I was going out clubbing and he said, I'll
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: come meet up with you, and the rest is kind
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: of history. We were inseparable from there. He came home
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: with me again that night. I remember he was buying
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: my friend's drinks and then McDonald's on the way home.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: The next day, he stayed over. I think we spent
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: the day together and then we just could not stop talking.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: It all happened really, really quickly. He was twenty five
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: at the time when I met him, about to turn
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: twenty six in a few weeks, and I think he
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: basically stayed over at my house every day, and he
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: took me on my first proper date. We went and
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: had vegan food, he bought us margaritas, and we were
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: playing Truth or Dare, and one thing led to another
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and he asked me to be his girlfriend, and I
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: said yes. I was so excited, and things had moved
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: really quickly. I think it had been four weeks at
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: that point, and he said to me, I think I
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: love you, and I remember just sitting there and being
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: in complete shock that it was happening so quickly, and
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I said to him, I can't say it back yet.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: This is a really big deal for me. I've never
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: said I love you.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: At this point, these stirred up memories of a ghost
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: of a situation ship past. His name was Jake.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: My previous dating experience had been limited to a bit
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: of a situation ship that was on and off from
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: when I was seventeen for three years. And with that situationship,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: we would go from friends to friends with benefits to
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: him blocking me and being quite abusive. So I'd never
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: actually said I love you to any man before, and
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: he had left me with a fair bit of PTSD
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: and trauma off the back of that three year period
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: where it was so up and down and so heightened.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I mean I was, yeah, seventeen, he was eighteen, and
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: it was so messy and so dramatic, and I remember
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: it was just the darkest period of my life on
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: and off at a really really young age. I learnt
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: how cruel men could be, and he had left me
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: feeling really untrusting towards men. And even though I wasn't
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: in an official relationship with my ex situationship, he had
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: really left this kind of mark on me where I
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: just didn't feel lovable. I felt really confident in myself
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: as a person and as a friend, but romantically I
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: didn't feel worthy of love. And so when I met
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Ben and he was everything that my ex situationship wasn't,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: that was a real turning point for me and the
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: way I approached love, I guess and romance. Our relationship
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: was very physical from the start, and we were definitely
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: really compatible in the bedroom. I remember teaching him some
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: new things, and he was a little bit shy. I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: think because he'd been in relationship since he was in
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: high school. He hadn't really found his feet in that area,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: so I guess it was really nice to teach him things.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: He would absolutely spoil me as well from the moment
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: we started kind of seeing each other, and in those
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: early days, he would bring me flowers all the time,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: little sweet treats. He would show up after work at
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: my work with, yeah, a bouquet of flowers or a
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: little gift that he'd thought of me, and would be
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: there whenever I finished work. He was just always there,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: ready to hang out. So yeah, pretty much inseparable from
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: day one. I think he was just so charismatic. He
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: knew how to just lie up a room. He made
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: everyone feel so welcome. He was so inclusive, so funny.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: You could just tell when he was thinking of jokes
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: as well, and then he'd pull them off really well.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: The whole room would be in fits of laughter. We
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: integrated really quickly, as in he would absolutely come along
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: to all my friendship events. I met his friends as well. However,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: he had a much much smaller friendship group. He was
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: a strange from his family and his mother had passed away.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: He had two younger brothers and a couple of older
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: siblings as well on both his mum and his dad's
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: side that he was completely estranged from, and he didn't
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: have a large friendship circle. So he really integrated quickly
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: into mine, and everyone made him feel really welcome, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: I think he fit in really well. We all had
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: very similar interests when it came to know movies, music.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: We were very much into the kind of alternative music scene,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: and it was really easy for us all to get along.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I think I felt this intense need to make him
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: feel included and part of my family, whether it be
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: my friendship family or my family family. I feel like
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: he was a very strong, strong person. He was so
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: intelligent and in tune with his emotions when we spoke,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and he had actually also told me that he'd lost
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: eighty kilograms and used to weigh one hundred and sixty
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and was around eighty when we met, and I thought,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: this person is so strong mentally. That is such a
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: sign of someone who is really really strong in terms
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: of their character, their perseverance, and their ability to see
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: an obsticle and overcome it. And he did that for
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: himself and was motivated himself to do that. He was
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: quite self conscious of that, and I was always just
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: in awe of that, and I thought that that was
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: one of the best things about him, was knowing that
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: fact as well. So he definitely was just someone I
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: wanted to embrace and bring into my circle really quickly.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: So she did things progressed really quickly. I think said
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I love you when he asked me to be his girlfriend,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and I definitely felt a lot of pressure from him
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: to say it back, but held off for I think
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: it was only a week or two, but it felt
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: like a really long time. And I was really clear
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: with him that it was a really big deal for me,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: as I'd never said I love you to anyone else before.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: When I said it, it was his birthday and I
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: wrote it in a card, and I remember he was
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: just so shocked and surprised, and we instantly just embraced
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: and it was very cute, see, and I was just
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: so in love with him so quickly. I felt so
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: so hard, and I never had before, so it was
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: all very very new to me. And that first couple
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: of months we were thrown into living together quite quickly,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: as his lease at his rental had come up and
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: he didn't want to sign on for a year when
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: he'd just kind of gotten into a really serious relationship.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: So I said, well, I mean, I have a one
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: bedroom apartment, but we can make it work. Move in here.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: There's no point in you signing a whole year long
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: lease at your current place. Let's make it work together.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: And so he basically never left. Essentially, it was a
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: one night stand turn relationship very very very quickly.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Despite only being together a couple of months, Cad and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Ben were totally and blissfully in love, but even in
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: their perfect little world, there were hints that things were
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: moving a little too fast.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: We went through the usual kind of initial relationship hiccups
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: of he was quite jealous of some of my male friends,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: especially ones I had passed intimate experiences with, and although
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: there was nothing there, he felt quite strongly about my
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: friendships with them, and I really started to distance myself
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and isolate myself quite quickly from them. And he was
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: quite attached and he would constantly text me, and if
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't reply for a couple of hours because I
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: was at work, he'd you know, double text, and I
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: thought that was completely normal, and that really felt like
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: he was just making a big effort and just wanted
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: to spend time with me and hear from me, and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: absolutely was just as obsessed with me as I was
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: with him. I think I had just had that security
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: even though I'd never been in a relationship. I just
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: didn't feel that need to text twenty four to seven,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: And so that was something that I noticed quite early on.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: About a month after I told Ben that I loved him,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: he went out for drinks with some friends. He didn't
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: come home that night, which wasn't abnormal as we had
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: just started dating, and he told me he was staying
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: over at his friend's house. I remember the next day
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: at work it was Valentine's Day and he came and
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: visited me before work while I was getting coffee and
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: brought me a bunch of flowers, which was really sweet.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: But then another bouquet of flowers showed up at my
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: workplace that day that had been pre ordered for Valentine's Day.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: So I didn't think too much into that until about
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: a week later and I get a message from my
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: friend who said, hey, I didn't know Ben and this
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: coworker of my friend was such good friends. It was
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: basically like a hate girly text, but from my friend
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: who worked with this girl at the time, and he
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: didn't outright say it, but I knew something had happened.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: So I questioned my friend and he has actually said
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: she was bragging about sleeping with him the week before.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I had a feeling in my gut. I knew something
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: definitely had happened because I thought back and I thought
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: it was strange that he didn't message me and come
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: home that night, and I think my gut just knew, yeah,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: he had done something and had a secret. I felt
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: really really confused, but I wasn't going to jump to
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: conclusions and just believe this other person. I was going
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to give Ben the chance to explain. I confronted Ben
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: about it, and he instantly got defensive and went outside
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to make a phone call. And I remember just sitting
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: there on the phone to my best friend, saying, Hey,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: this has happened. He's gone outside to make a phone call.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: He's denying that it even happened, and I was in
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: complete shock and a complete state of confusion. At this point,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I just knew that he was lying about it, and
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I messaged the other girl. She backflipped a couple of
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: times in that conversation and essentially ended up denying that
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: it happened. And then Ben admitted to it all. He
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: said that they got very drunk and that it was
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: just an accident. There was no real excuse for it.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: He was crying, he was really upset. I remember I
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: was in a bit of shock, so I was just
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: sitting on the couch, just still and frozen, not able
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: to cry, not able to get upset. And I told
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: him we needed space so I could think about it.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I took the next day off work, and I know
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: that Ben went and stayed with his friend and spoke
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: to his friend. And when Ben came back, he was
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: so full of remorse and he was saying, he just
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: doesn't know why it happened. He loves me, he sees
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: a future with me. He absolutely wanted to make it
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: work with me if I could forgive him. I remember
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I asked him did he use protection? He said no,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and so I instantly made us go to the doctor
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: and get a test together. And I remember just being
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: in the uber on the way to the GP and thinking,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I can't believe this has happened. I can't believe this happened.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: This is only a month in to my first proper relationship.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I love this man, and he's cheated on me already.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: When we got home, we had a big discussion about it,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and I said, if I choose to give you another chance,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and I choose to forgive you, I'm going to do
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that with a promise that I won't resent you. I've
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: seen how that ruins other relationships, even years down the track,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: where the partner will then be so full of resentment.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: If I'm going to forgive you, I'm going to let
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: go and I will give you another chance wholeheartedly. But
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: you need to promise to never do this again. And
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: he said, yep, I promise I won't do this again.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: After that, I chose to, yeah, forgive and forget and
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: move forward with absolute grace and love for him. We
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: just continued on as if it had never happened, and
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: it was just a tiny little blip. Very very early on,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: we were still separable. We were going on dates and
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: eating out every couple of nights. We were hanging out
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: with all of my friends. He was continuously buying me flowers,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: sending me flowers to my work. He would take me
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to gigs and to the movies, and we were absolutely
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: just obsessed with each other.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Every couple hits a few bumps along the way, and
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: as far as Kay was concerned, that was all behind them.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: In her mind, that bleep will only make them stronger,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and as it turns out, she was right.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: We were going to a engagement party on a Saturday
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: evening and we were shopping for an outfit for him
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: to wear during the day, and while we were walking
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: through them all, we saw a doory store how to sale,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and at that point we had been making so many
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: jokes about having kids, and I was saying to him,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I'm really traditional. I don't want to have kids until
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I'm married, and we were joking that we were going
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: to get married. He was telling me I was his
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: dream girl, I was the love of his life. He
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: was going to make me his wife. And so when
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: we saw this jewelry store sale, we walked in and
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: he said, let's just for fun, have you try some on?
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And I tried some on. I tried on my dream ring,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: which was a kind of square cut silver diamond ring.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: It didn't look good on my finger at all. And
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: then there was one that was this beautiful round diamond
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: and we put it on my finger and it looked
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: completely different and it just fit. And I remember being
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: so shocked that this ring that I had liked. I'd
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: never really thought about rings before, but this ring that
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I had liked on other people, the style just looked
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: horrible on my finger. But then when we put this
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: one on, it was the one. He instantly walked outside
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: and I could see him. He just left me there,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and I could see him pacing back and forth on
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the phone, and I had no idea who he was
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: talking to. When he came back into the jewelry store,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: he looked at me and the salesman and he said,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: that was your mum. She gave us her blessing, and
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: he knew that he didn't need my dad's approval. My
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: dad was very chill and would just be completely happy
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: for me. It was my mom's approval who he needed.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So he'd called my mum and asked if it was
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: okay to ask me to marry him. She had said
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: it's Kate's choice, but I approved. They'd only met once
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: at this point, and he'd come into state with me
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: to meet my family a few weeks earlier, so they
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: had loved him and completely just fallen head over heels
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: with him the way I had. He made a huge
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: effort with my family when we were there interstate together.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: He got along with my sister in a way that
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't even get along with her. He got along
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: with my cousins, my nieces, my whole family just absolutely
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: fell in love with him. So once we bought the ring,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: we were giddy, and we got the tram home and
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: he was saying I'm going to surprise you and propose
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: when you least expect it. And I was absolutely completely
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: okay with that, but just knowing that the ring was there,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I can't even describe the feeling. I was so in love.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I just wanted it to happen then and there. And
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: then we were walking down my street, right outside our apartment,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: and he just couldn't take it anymore and got down
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: on one knee. I don't even remember what he said.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: I was in activewear and looked shocking. And a lady
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: was turning the corner as he got down on one knee,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: and she said, oh my God, give me your phone
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: and took my phone and took a photo of it
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: for us. I was crying. I was beside myself with joy,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: and I of course said yes instantly, and we went
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: upstairs and we called my dad and told my dad.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I think my mom drove over with the phone to
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: my dad. She was somewhere else at that point. I
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: think she was at a friend's house. Well, my dad
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: was at home, and my dad drove over to my
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: mom at a friend's house, and we told them together
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: on the phone, and then we called my grandma and
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: we did the rounds, and then we had to go
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: to this engagement party where we obviously didn't say anything,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: didn't tell anyone, and let my friend have her moment.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: But the whole time we were just giddy because we
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: had this secret. We posted about it on Facebook afterwards,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and I remember my phone was just blowing up and
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: everyone was saying, I'm so excited you but I'm so surprised,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: and I would just say, when you know, you know,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: and I know he's my person, he's the one, He's
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the love of my life. It was a really exciting
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: time anyway, just being in that engagement bubble. There was
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: no rush to get married, but there was a need
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: for us to look at our finances and really get
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: real about saving so we could be ready for a wedding.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Just five months after that first fateful dm, Kate had
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: a ring on her finger and a future unfolding before her.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: And around that time another big decision presented itself.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: My family had said they'd help us by our first
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: place together, given we were engaged. We found the apartment,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: and this was in the space of a couple of
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: weeks of looking. It was the perfect corner apartment, beautiful view,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: really easy to give a little facelift and make our
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: own really quickly and not for too much money. So
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: we decided we'd go for it, and we bought this place.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: It all happened very very quickly. We instantly made an
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: appointment at the bank to merge our finances. I work
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: in finance, so this is something that was really important
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: to me, so we could move together as a couple
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: and move forward. And we decided to consolidate our debts.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: We both had a credit card debt at the time,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: and we thought, let's put that into a personal loan
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that we can easily pay off and open a joint
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: account so we can start saving for the wedding. So
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: at the meeting with the bank, he ends up being
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: the one to take out the personal loan and we
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: use that money to pay off my credit card, his
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: credit card, and then an extra four thousand dollars was
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: added to that personal loan to pay for his mum's
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: burial fees. He said, we're still outstanding and left on
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: him to pay because his stepdad was refusing to pay
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: for those fees. She'd only died about a year before,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: he said, so. Essentially, he told me that she was
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: being buried in the cemetery, and he needed to pay
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: off those fees from when she'd passed. So everything was
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: going so well. I was on cloud nine, still in
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: my engagement bubble. We just bought our first apartment and
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: were waiting to settle and move in. My family loved Ben,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: my friends loved Ben. We were freshly engaged and just
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: ready to start that next, more adult chapter of our
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: lives together. When we joined our finances, we decided to
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: set some savings goals. I owned a little bit more
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: than Ben at this point and made it really clear
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: to him that what's mine is what's his is mine.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I would be happy to help pay off those burial
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: fees on the person alone. A couple of weeks later,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: we go out with my friends and the friend that
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: had told me about the cheating in February was out
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: with us and Ben and this friend ended up reconciling
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: that night and we were having the best time. We
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: were at a Korean bar and dancing on the tables,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: making friends with everyone, drinking copious amounts of sojo. During
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: that night. While Ben was reconciling with my friend, he'd
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: given me his phone, which was really rare for him,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: as he never let me touch his phone, but after
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: the cheating incident, he'd actually changed his passcode to the
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: same one as mine to give me peace of mind,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and I said, I'll never need to use it. I'll
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: never go through your phone. And while he was at
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the bar reconciling with my friend, I decided to go
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: on to his phone and unblock that particular friend, given
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: they were making up. I don't know why. I think
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: I was drunk too, It was just a drunk decision.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And when I saw his blocked list, I noticed a
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: couple of names that stood out that were names of
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: his family members. So later on that night, Ben was
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: extremely drunk and he left his phone next to me
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: when he passed out in bed, and I went back
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: on and had a look. It's something I'm not proud
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: of and had never done before and had never even
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: thought of before. But something told me go back and
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: look at those names, and it was the names of
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: his dad and multiple names of his mum, And I thought,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: this is really strange. His mom's dead and why would
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: there be multiple accounts with her name blocked? And I
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: went into his message requests and there was a message
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: from another account with his mum's name, and she was
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: essentially saying I'm so sorry, I'm clean now, or something
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: along those lines. And I've left a man's name I'm
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: assuming maybe his stepdad, please message me. I believe the
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: message was sent quite recently, not too much earlier, and
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: we had actually acknowledged the date of his mom's death
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: quite early on. I think it was in March. From memory,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: he was really upset one day and we acknowledged the
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: fact that his mum had died. He posted a photo
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: of her on social media and said miss you. And
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I remember lying in bed with him and he was
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: really upset talking about her death. So to see her
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: in his DMS in his message requests was a big shock.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: And then I put two and two together that she
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: wasn't dead. I instantly went on that cemetery website and
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: I searched her name. It was nowhere to be found.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I searched her name on Google, couldn't find any information
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: at all about her or her death. And I just
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: knew in my gut she was alive and not dead,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: and that he had lied about it. I felt really confused.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I felt betrayed, but something in me said don't jump
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: to conclusions. Just again, bring it up with him and
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: see what he has to say. I believe he's a
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: really good person, and if he told me that she
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: was dead, it was for good reason. And he obviously
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: didn't want to tell me the truth for one reason
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: or another. So the next morning, when he woke up,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I confronted him. I was open with him and told
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: him I'd been through his phone while he was asleep
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: and I saw this message. He told me that it
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: was his younger half brothers on his mom's side, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that they were pretending to be his mom to get
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: money from him, because he'd previously been sending them money
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: to support them. I knew in my guard that this
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't true, and I just gave up the fight at
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: some point and accepted, he's not going to tell me
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: the truth here, but I knew his mom was alive.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I remember I went out for dinner with a friend
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: a couple of weeks later, and I told her about
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: what i'd seen and what I knew and what he
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: had told me, and she said, look, he seems like
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: a really good person, and you're right, he probably wouldn't
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: say that his mom's dead if it wasn't just the
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: easiest option. What other reason could that be? And so
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I actually felt really sorry for him in the message
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: because it had mentioned from his mum that I'm clean
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: now and I've left my partner. I just knew, okay,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: this relationship wasn't great, and he had been honest about
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: the fact that there were substance abuse issues there and
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: it was clearly a broken relationship. So I just decided,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going to let this go and I'm not going
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: to push this and cause a huge fight. I mean,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: what is the big deal? But then there was a
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: question of the personal loan and where that money had gone.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: So I again just decided to let it go and
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: not cause a fight from it, and just accept that
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: he's telling me this because it's the easiest way and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want to admit to the truth.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: While part of Kate rationalized and trying to understand the situation,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: there was a niggling feeling that wouldn't go away.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: What I felt really uncomfortable about was the fact that
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: my whole family and whole friendship group knew that his
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: mum was dead, and when they'd ask me about him,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I'd say, well, he doesn't talk to his family. They're estranged,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: and his mother passed away. His dad had left when
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: he was really young and started a new family, and
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: he had a lot of trauma that he hadn't worked through,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: but he was happy on his own and had always
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: made it work with his previous partners. My mind then
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: turned to, well, what's this four thousand dollar burial feed
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: that I'm paying off and other fees that were paying
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: off together. And at that point I'd paid off maybe
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: half of that amount plus my own or I was
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: in the process of paying off half of that amount
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: plus my own debt with our person alone. There was
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: so many instances where he was taking me out for
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: extravagant dinners and buying me flowers and other gifts. Especially
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: on my birthday. He'd absolutely spoiled me. I had so
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: many gifts waiting for me when I woke up, and
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I just was so confused. Where did that money go?
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: And I think I just put two and two together
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: in my head. Okay, he spent that, I think on me.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I knew at this point that I was ignoring some
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: really big red flags, but the good just outweighed the bad,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: and you know, these were just a couple of little
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: hiccups in my mind, and we were engaged. He was
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: still the best person I knew, the person I trusted
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: and spent twenty four to seven with other than work.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: When things were good, he was incredible. I would come
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: home and he would have written I love you and
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: tea light candles across my floor, and he'd write me
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: love notes, and there would be texts that he'd send
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: me in the middle of the day that were so romantic.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't a romantic like him, and it didn't
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: come naturally to me. So I was slowly just warming
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: to this love that I was receiving it all times
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: of the day. And you know, I'd come home and
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: he would cook me dinner every night or take me
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: out for dinner, and everything just seemed perfect, other than
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: he'd cheated on me and he'd lied to me. And
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I kept thinking, this is all completely opposite to how
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: my ex partner Jake treated me, and I'd rather this
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: than have him scream at me, block me, yell at me.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And I just thought this is the only alternative for myself.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't actually ever entertain the idea of breaking up
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: with him. I never entertained the idea of being alone.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I just thought, this is our life together, now, this
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: was it, and I was blissfully happy. I just seemed
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: to compartmentalize these two big red flags.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And there were exciting times ahead, none more so than
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: finally moving into their very own apartment.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: It feels like this fresh start. We are happy beyond,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: and we make this apartment our home. We host my
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: family from interstate all the time, we have our friends
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: over all the time. It's just us and our cat,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: and we're just in this little love bubble. Saving to
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: get ready for our marriage. We went into state and
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: visited some family. We had some great experiences together. I
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: took him to the UFC for his birthday. It was
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: his absolute passion. We absolutely just move forward together and
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: was stronger than ever, and I just felt like I
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: trusted him completely and holy, and there were no red
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: flags that he was looking any other way or telling
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: me any other lies. We just had the best, most
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: perfect year, just us in our pre marriage bubble, just
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: absolutely enjoying each other's company and everything was great. We
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: rarely fought. If we did, it was about silly things
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: like him wanting to earn more money, so he could
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: kind of catch up to me, or we would fight
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: about who would clean the kitchen and little silly things
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: like that. There was nothing major.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: With the wedding approaching. Things were in such a good place.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: It prompted a pretty important conversation.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: It was a couple of nights before and my mom
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: had said to me while we were alone, how's Ben
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: feeling with none of his family attending the wedding? And
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I said, well, my family is his family, and my
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: mom had kind of realized something was off with the
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: story about his mom being dead, and I think I
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: was trying so hard to cover for him, but I
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: didn't want to continue lying to my mom, so I said, well,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: he thinks his mother's dead. We don't know if she's
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: actually dead. He was told by his brothers that she
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: was dead, and my mom knew that we'd taken out
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: this personal loan, so she kept saying, but what about
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the burial fees then? And I said, oh, I think
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: there are other fees that were to do with her
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: mum's death. I don't know, And I just remember being
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: really cagy to my mom and feeling so awful for
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: lying to her, but also trying to get my and
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: get Ben out of the fact that my mom thought
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: that his mum was absolutely dead, and that really shocked
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: me and rocked me a couple of days before the
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: wedding having that conversation. So I brought it up with
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: him a couple of nights beforehand and I said, I
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: know your mom's alive, and he didn't deny it and
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: finally admitted to it. And I remember we had this
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: really mature, healthy discussion. He didn't try and make any excuses.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: He just said it was what I thought. And he
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: said it was easier to tell people that she's dead.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And I said, okay, well, I'm still going to marry you.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: And that was that. Our wedding day was the best
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: day of my life. It was the easiest, easiest wedding
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: preparation that year. Everything had gone to plan. We had
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: the best bridal party. We had so much fun. We
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: stayed in an airbnb together the night before and we
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: spent the whole day just surrounded by friends and family
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: getting ready and getting to our wedding venue. At the wedding,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: we had the best time ever. Everyone was in fits
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: of laughter the whole evening. We could not stop laughing.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: My dad cried. My mom and my dad walked me
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: down the aisle, and the whole time we were just
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: cracking jokes and it was just the most joyous, joyous
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: day of my life, surrounded by everyone that loved us,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: all of my friends, all of Ben's friends, all of
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: my family had traveled down from interstate to be there,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: and it was the most memorable day. We danced to
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: this beautiful song Sunflower by Rex Orange County, and it
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: was the most special song to us. Sunflowers are my
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: favorite flower, and he bought me sunflower bunches all the time.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: It was the most beautiful, beautiful evening with my favorite song,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: the best music. My dad was so happy, my whole
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: family was so happy, and it was just yeah. We
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: were surrounded by lad and joy and it was the
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: best day.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: It was only fitting their best day ever led straight
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: into the trip of a lifetime, the perfect beginning to
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: their next chapter.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: It was our first kind of proper holiday overseas together.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: It was perfect, and we went to Paris, we went
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: to Rome, we went to Amsterdam and other places. It
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: was just the dream Europe trip for us, and it
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: was so beautiful. Could not have gone better. When we
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: got back. We had always said we'd tried for kids,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and so we were starting to think about trying and
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: getting our finances back in order. We hadn't really left
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: the wedding with much debt or anything. We had some
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: help from my family and had saved really hard together
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: to pay off our original credit card debts and then
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: be able to fund this wedding ourselves. And we'd done
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: a really, really great job at that. So we thought,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: let's regroup, take a couple of months to save and
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: also buy some things for ourselves that we hadn't been
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: able to while planning and honeymoon saving, and we decided
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: that we'd try for kids later that year. Then COVID hit,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and the first week into COVID, my dad passed away unexpectedly.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget getting that phone call and finding out
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: that my dad had died. It was so surreal, and
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I was beside myself. I remember just being almost catatonic
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: in bed, and Ben was just beside himself as well.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: My dad was like his dad, and I remember he
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: held me all night until we got up to catch
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: a plane at six am. The next morning. We flew
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: into State to be with my family and I said,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I want to go to the spot where my dad
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: had passed. He had passed really suddenly while riding a bike,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: and I all night had had these visions of where
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: my dad was, and luckily we knew he'd passed really
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: quickly from a heart attack and he was most likely
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: dead before he hit the ground, so he didn't suffer.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And we knew he'd left a cafe twenty minutes before that,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: so it wasn't long before he was found. And I said,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I want to go to the spot and I want
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: to see Dad. I want to see his body. And
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: my older brother and sister decided to come to We
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: drove a couple of hours to where my dad had
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: been staying at my sister's house house sitting for them,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and Ben was by my side the whole time. He
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: was holding my hand. He never let me out of
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: his sight. He was there comforting my family. He kissed
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: my dad on the cheek or the forehead when we
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: saw his body. He came with us to the location
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: where my dad had passed, and he was just the
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: perfect husband. In that moment. I knew he was just
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: as devastated as I was. The last messages from my
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: dad that i'd received the day before to me and
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: not to our group chat were my dad asking how
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Ben was. And I'll never forget that that's the last
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: thing my dad had heard from me. After that, everything
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: kind of changed in terms of our mindset around kids.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to start trying sooner rather than later,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: and I kept thinking, well, COVID's just hit. What if
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: my grandma passes, or what if my mom something happened
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: to my mom? And so I really wanted to start trying,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden Ben wanted the opposite, and
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: he said, I'm not ready. I think this is really
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: changed the way I feel about it, and just want
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: to do some things for myself first. And I said
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: what are those things? And he said, I want to
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: get my blue belt in jiu jitsu, I want to
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: fix up the shitty tattoos that I have that I'm
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: not proud of. And I want to earn X amount
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: of money. And there were these things that he wanted,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: and I said, well, they're just, you know, things you
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: can do anyway, They're not things you need to do
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: before we have kids. But eventually I came round and
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I respected his decision and I didn't want to force anything,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: so we put a halt on trying for kids and
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: just decided to navigate COVID. We both got promotions during
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: that time, and I was working really, really hard while
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: we were in lockdown, so was he. And Ben was
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: really determined to catch up to me in his career,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: and that was something he was really really self conscious
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: about and would be a constant state of discussion for us.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I kept saying to him, well, I have seven plus
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: years on you at my job. You've only just started
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: at your job. You need to be patient with yourself
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: where it doesn't matter what's mine is yours. I'm not
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: thinking that I earn more than you and holding it
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: against you. And it wasn't by much at all, but
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: somehow he kept putting value on that, and so there
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: was a lot of pressure he was putting on himself
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: to work really hard, and I knew that that was
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: also impacting him and his mental health. I really enjoyed
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: COVID because it brought me closer to my family. I
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: didn't have to go and talk about the death of
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: my father whenever I spoke to someone. Because we were
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: all communicating through screens. I was able to kind of
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: process my grief alone and be in my own kind
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: of little bubble where I was just speaking to the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: friends I wanted to speak to, and I wasn't feeling
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: like I needed to go out and all of a
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: sudden social So it was a really really great time
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: for me, and I was just taking every positive out
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: of it that I could.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: One year of navigating lockdowns later, Kaid had been working
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: through her grief and things were going pretty well, so
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: for like the right time to start trying for a family.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I was taking the pregnancy vitamins, I was doing all
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: the research. I was peeing on the ovulation sticks, taking
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: my temperature every single day. We were doing everything we
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: could to try for kids properly and feeling really ready
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: to do that as well. Not long after this, we
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: decided to start looking at houses. I think COVID had
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: really solidified for us that we were stuck in this
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: two bedroom apartment and needed a bit more space, especially
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: if we were trying for kids, and so we started
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: the search for our dream home. I had inherited some
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: money after my dad's death and really wanted to either
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: use that money to travel overseas and take a long
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: holiday together post covid or. I wanted to use it
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: for property, then was adamant he didn't want to use
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: it to go overseas, and we had a few lengthy
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: discussions where he said, well, you can just go without me,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: and I was really upset by this. It would normally
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: end with myself in tears and I'd say, well, I
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: don't want to go overseas without you, and this is
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: my money and I want to use it on both
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: of us, and I really want to travel and see
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: the world, especially before we have kids. But he said no,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: let's use it on property, and I said, okay, well
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: that's the other thing I would use it on, so yes,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: let's do that. Then the house hunting was really exciting
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: for us. We really had a goal that we were
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: both working towards, and we were spending every weekend going
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: to inspections. We bid in two different auctions and unfortunately
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: weren't successful, and then went on a day where we
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: saw seven or eight different properties in the one morning.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: We fell in love with two of them. After the
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: second property, which was closer to so many amenities, then
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: walked outside and he said, let's put an offer on
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: this one. I love this house. It's beautiful, and I said,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I love it too. I think we should. However, the
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: other property was still stuck in both of our minds.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: We got home and had a really lengthy discussion about
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: it and Ben said he changed his mind and he
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: wanted to go for the other property. So we had
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: lengthy discussions that would last well into the night about
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: both these properties and whether we should bid on one
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: or the other. They were pretty similar in price and
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: there were selling points for both, but I was more
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: sold on the second property that Ben had originally said
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: he really wanted to bid on, and he was really
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: sold on the first one that we did both love
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: but didn't have that same reaction at first. The first
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: property as well, wasn't as close to really important amenities
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: like public transport, as I didn't drive, so that was
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: a big deciding factor for me. And there was definitely
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: some tension during these discussions, and I remember one day
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Ben said, no, it's your money, let's go for the
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: one you like, and I said, well, I don't want
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: this to be a point of resentment in our relationship
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: moving forward. If we're going to buy this, we both
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: need to be all in. This is a huge huge
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: decision to take out a mortgage this big, and it's
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: an absolute thing that we need to be aligned on.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I continue to have discussions like this with him, and
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: he ends up saying, no, I love this property too,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful. We absolutely should go for it. We'd be
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: silly not too, and so we put an offer on
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: the property. We're really excited when within a day our
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: offer gets accepted and it's our first home together, our
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: first real house. The house itself had so much character
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: and would need a bit of work, but we were
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: both ready to take that on. It's a Victorian terrast,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: so was absolutely an investment in terms of it would
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: increase in value given the heritage aspect, and the location
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: was only just getting more and more popular in the market.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Once we settle on the house in December twenty twenty one,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Ben starts acting really distant and I felt him really
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: visibly pull away. We celebrated with our friends and we
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: took photos outside the for sale sign, putting the salt
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: sticker on the house, We went for drinks. We had
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: a few days of real joy together and excitement about
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: moving into the property. But the moment we settle I
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: felt him pull away.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: It was only weeks since they'd achieved this huge milestone together.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Kate could sense something was wrong. She just couldn't quite
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: put her finger on it, and the lead up to
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Ben's thirtieth it got a whole lot worse.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: The day before Ben's birthday, Ben says, I want to
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: take you to dinner. And this was a couple of
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: days after we'd moved into the new house, and he said,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: let's go to the pub down the road. And I'd
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: been saying, I really want to try it out. It's
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: basically our neighbor. Let's go, and so I was really
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: excited that he'd asked me to dinner. I got a
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: bit dressed up, so did he, and we went to
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: the pub together and while we were talking, he brought up,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: out of the blue, what if I don't want to
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: be married anymore? My heart sunk, and I remember I
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: instantly started crying in the pub. And we talked and
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: talked and talked about it, and I was so confused,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: and I said, what is this, what's going on? Why
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: don't you want to be married anymore? And he essentially
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: said that he doesn't see a life with me anymore
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: and wanted some time to himself for his thirtieth I
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: had put aside part of my bonus that year and
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: taken out ten thousand dollars in cash for a trip
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: for us to Japan. And we got home and he said,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: let's do gifts early. And this is after a discussion
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: where he said he didn't want to be married anymore.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: And I said, okay, that I feel like this is
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: the wrong gift to give you right now. And I
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: don't know how you're going to feel about this, because
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you'll react and if there'll be
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: an imbalance with us. And I gave him his gift
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: and he was so excited and so happy, and I said,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: this is for our future Japan trip. We just wanted
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: to go to Japan together, and he said he was
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: so grateful. He was so thankful, and everything kind of
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: went back to normal for the rest of the evening,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: but I felt sick in my stomach. The next day.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I remember getting home and he said to me, what
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: if I don't want to go to Japan with you
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: and I want to go alone? And I remember again
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: my heart just broke and I just didn't know what
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: to say, and I said, well, how could you now,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's like me trying to bribe your
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: love and me trying it. This is, you know, something
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to do for you and for us,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: and I worked really hard for this money, and it's
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: something I want us to have, is a trip to
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: look forward to. We keep talking about wanting to go
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: to Japan, and now it's we've bought our house, it's
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: post COVID. We can go overseas together when the border
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: is open. Let's book in this Japan trip. And he said,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I just I want to go alone. And I just
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know what to say. And I knew
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: something was very broken with us at that point. So
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I spoke to my mom. I think i'd been speaking
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: to her and the lead up to this and saying
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: how detached I felt. And I said to her, I
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: think I need to come visit you into state, and
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I need to give Ben some space, because clearly he's confused,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: he's lost, he doesn't know what he wants. I think
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: turning thirty had really shocked him. I think opening our
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: bank account and seeing a million dollars in debt really
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: shocked him. I think having to work really hard for
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: our money had really shocked him. To be able to
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: pay the mortgage, and knowing that things were going to
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: be a little bit tighter really shocked him. And he'd
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: said he was ready for all these things, and we
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: were still trying for kids at this point, and I
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: was making assumptions, but I think all of these really
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: adult decisions sent him into a complete phase where he
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: was just absolutely lost and didn't know how to proceed
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: with life. He did put a lot of pressure on
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: himself turning thirty, and he said he wasn't where he'd
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: imagined himself. And I said, well, you're married, we're trying
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: for kids, We've just bought our dream house, and you know,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: people would die to have what we have, like we
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: are so privileged, and you know, we are so lucky
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: to be where we are in life and to have
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: each other and to be a team, and to have
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: our health and our stability in our workplaces and the
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: friends that we have and the family that I have.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: So what's missing I don't understand. And he just couldn't
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: tell me. So I said, all right, I'm going to
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: give you some space and I'm going to go to Queensland.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: And I asked him if he'd get counseling with me,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: and he said yes.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Kate needed space, a safe space, so she packed her
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: banks and went into state to stay with their mum.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: What was meant to be a few days turned into
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: three weeks. Is Ben's behavior remained cruel and cold. That
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: was until Valentine's Day.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: He admitted that he missed me. On Valentine's Day, we
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: had a phone call that lasted hours and it was
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: like we were back to our old selves. We were laughing,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: we were crying, we were talking about us in our relationship,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: and it was really beautiful. We then go on to
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: have our joint counseling session a couple of days later.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: It was our first one with the joint counselor. The
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: first thing I remember saying when we got into the
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: joint counseling session and it was my time to speak,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: was did you cheat on me? And he said yes,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I did, and he wanted to wait till the counselor
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: was there to admit it to me, and he couldn't
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: admit it. The week before, he says he was out drinking.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: He doesn't even remember the girl's name. He says he
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: didn't take his wedding ring off when it happened, and
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: I was absolutely disgusted and I couldn't believe that he's
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: done this to me again. And the counselor said, well,
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: you know, now you need to make a decision. Are
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: you going to move forward or not? And Ben said,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: I want to be with Kate. I want to be together.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I absolutely think that the marriage is worth fighting for
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: and that we can work through this, and I'm committed
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: to doing it. Then I said I need to think
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: about this, and I remember leaving the session and going
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: and hugging my mum and just crying and saying, he
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: cheated on me. He cheated on me. She had no
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: idea about the first time when we first started dating.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I just knew that she would know that this was
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: a really big deal for me. And I cried day
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: and I remember he texted me and he said, I'm
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: so sorry, and I booked a flight for the next
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: morning back home. When I got home the next day,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: he was at work all day at his weekend job
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: in the warehouse, and he got home really late. I
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: remember the moment he got home, we were fighting. He
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: was instantly getting aggressive. He'd moved all his belongings out
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: of our bedroom into the room downstairs, the spare room,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: and it was like there were two separate people living
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: in the house when I got home. Things were really
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: rocky after that. The next night after he invited me
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: to the warehouse party where he worked now on the weekends,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: and that night we had a fight because I said
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go home, and he was threatening to
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: drunk drive. He was screaming at me, he was punching
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: the steering wheel, threatening to kill himself, using a voice
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: that I'd never heard before, and finally I just decided
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: to back down and please him and say, okay, I
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: will continue to party on tonight. Let's go to Karayoke
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: if that's where we're going, And he said great and
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: snapped right out of it. We ordered an uber to
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: carryoke to catch up with his friends, and I remember
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: sitting in the back of the uber. He was in
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: the front. I was just crying and crying and crying silently,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: and he turned around and he said, you'd better put
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: a smile on your face, and I will never forget
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: the tone. I'd never heard anything like that before, and
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: I just couldn't say anything. And I think I pretended
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: to smile and he said good or something like that,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: and I just kept thinking, this uber driver is going
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: to know that he is controlling me right now. And
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking, these are red flags, these are red flags,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: these are red flags. This is not his normal behavior.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: It is not okay.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: This rollercoaster of emotions and Ben's behavior were unpredictable and erratic.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it was bad, and sometimes it felt like things
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: truly were going back to normal.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Things after that night seemed to look up. We continue
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: to get counseling really regularly. We're working on our communication,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: We're having regular check ins, and a couple of months
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: after this period, he says in counseling, I want to
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: start trying for babies again, and I say, no, I
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: want to make sure we're okay. First, let's focus on us.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Our intimacy had gotten so much better since I got
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: back from that month away, and since we'd been working
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: through counseling and everything seemed really, really good. We were
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: making a huge effort to go on dates. He took
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: me to the sunflower fields, he took me to Dal'sford
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: for the weekend. We had day trips and made a
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: much bigger effort to just be present with each other,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: communicate through anything we were thinking and feeling, and be
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: better to each other and better at each other's company.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: So as the year progresses, he says to me, Japan's
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: not opening their borders yet. Why don't we use the
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: money you gave me for my thirtieth to book a
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Europe trip. Let's basically relive our home honeymoon together. And
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I had fallen in love with Europe on our honeymoon
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: and I was all too happy to say, absolutely, let's
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: do this. So we planned this Europe trip together from
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: months long trip. During the trip, we saw our favorite
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: band together. We got matching tatoos in Amsterdam, and everything
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: was perfect. We end up being intimate in every country
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: we visit it and every time we'd make little jokes
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: and say, oh, imagine if our baby's conceived here, and
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: we weren't being careful. We weren't not trying at this point,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: so we were absolutely, you know, still talking about having children.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: When we get back from Europe, we have a week
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: off together. We go to the movies twice, we go shopping,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: we eat out, We're just having a great week and
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: we're back at work and I felt like everything was
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: distant all over again. I called Ben on my lunch
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: break and I say, what's going on. It's your Christmas
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: party tonight. I really feel like everything's distant. I just
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: want to talk before you go to the party, and
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: he says, I feel like I did at the start
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: of the year. I don't want to be married to
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: you anymore. I instantly start hysterically crying on the phone
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: and I say, well, this is just such a shock.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: We got matching tattoos a week and a half ago.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I'm completely blindsided. I'm hysterically crying, and I just don't
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: know what to say.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Every day, the same patterns emerged. Kate never knew which
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: version of Ben she would get. The hardest part was
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: that she still loved him, and that love was what
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: kept her trying doing everything she could to make at
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: work until one day he did the unforgivable.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: In March twenty twenty three, I was house sitting for
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: a friend and it was a great opportunity for me
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: to give him more space, and I noticed that he
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: wasn't feeding our cat, and that was it for me.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: He was saying he was there and he was feeding
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: our cat. But I just knew in my gut that
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: he wasn't. So I was going back to our house
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: every day and checking to see if she'd been fed,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: and she hadn't. And that happened a couple of times,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: and that was when I knew, and I said, you
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: need to move out. Now. I put my foot down.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go to Sydney and I'm going to
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: get as far away from you as possible on my
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: birthday weekend. You can move out in peace. I won't
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: be there to watch that happen. While I'm celebrating my bat
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: day that weekend I'm in Sydney. He is blowing up
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: my phone. He texts me happy birthday, he sends me
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: photos from the span of our relationship. He's complimenting me,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: He's telling me he misses me. He's then saying fuck
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: all my friends. I don't care about them. I just
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: want you, and being really aggressive towards the people that
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: love and care about him. But I'm just taking this
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: as a win, and I'm saying, Okay, well you need
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: to prove it. Let's maybe go on a date or something.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Let's and I'm trying to talk to him and be,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: you know, open to the fact that he wants He's
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: kind of changed his mind, and I thought, okay, him
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: moving out is a turning point, and he's realized this
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: is not sustainable and he wants back into this relationship.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: So I'm giving him some grace, but I'm not giving
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: in fully. I've still got my guard up completely. And
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: he's texting me in the middle of the night saying
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: that he misses me. Two days after that, I'm at
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: work and my friend pulls me into a room and says, hey,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: I've just received a message from my friend who's seen
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Ben on a dating app. I look at the photos
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm completely just numb. It's him, and he's using
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: photos from our wedding. I'm instantly just shocked and disgusted,
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: and I knew we're done. We are done. That evening,
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: I call him and I say, hey, today, I was
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: shown photos of you on a dating app. He says, oh,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I made the profile two nights ago. So the first
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: night when he was begging for me back, his first
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: night moved out of the house. I say, well why,
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: and he says, I just needed the validation, And I said,
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: are you not getting that from me? That's what I'm
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: here for I'm your wife, and he screamed at me
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: and he said this is all your fault and turned
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: it on me, and I remember he hung up on me,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: and he texted me and he said, just let me
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: enjoy a night with my friends, please. I wasn't even
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: going to message him. He then sends me a video
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: when I don't reply to that of him deleting Tinder,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: and I reply and I say, well, the screenshot I
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: was shown was of Hinge. A few weeks pass I'm
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: at the lowest point I've ever been out in my life,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: I think. And when my dad passed away, I ended
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: up in hospital one night. I just couldn't see a
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: way out, and I thought I was having a heart attack.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: I think I was having a panic attack, and I
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: was like, I'm having a heart attack, just like my dad.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Like it's actually there's no way out of this for me,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Like I've lost the love of my life, he's moved out,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: he's gone and begged for me back, and the same
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: night has made a dating profile like we're done, this
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: is done. And that was a real turning point for me.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: I ended up booking in with the GP the next
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: day and going on antidepressants that day, and it was
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: so clear when I went on those antidepressants that what
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: I'd been going through up until that point in April
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: was not sustainable. I was coming home every day and
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: crying for five hours every night. Every day I'd go
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: to work and I'd be a shell of myself and
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: work would be my safe place, and it was just
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: it was the darkest point I can ever even remember
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: going through every in my life. When I went on
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: the antidepressants, I became really, really numb to everything was
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: happening and kind of reached a state of acceptance. I
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: was getting regular counseling and therapy.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: At this point, all contact with Ben was limited to
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: financial and legal conversations as they navigated their split.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Until Ben tells me that Rex Orange County is coming
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: to Australia. I know he's really special to us. The
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: tickets are on sale, you might want to go. And
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: then he says, let's have a session with our counselor,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: which I think is really odd and really strange. I
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: ended up contacting our counselor who says, let's book in
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: a session, but just with you. And when I speak
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: to the counselor, the counselor says, I won't see him anymore,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: and essentially he says that Ben had tried to manipulate
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: him into springing a session on me to tell me
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: that he's got a new partner. I booked tickets to
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: this concept and was planning on going with a friend.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: And then a couple weeks later, I reactivate Instagram and
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: I can see that he has someone's initials in his bio.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: So I instantly had this feeling that it was another
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: person who had followed me, as she had instantly unfollowed
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: me when I reactivated my Instagram, I went on to
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: her Instagram account and she had his initials in her bio.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: So they'd been dating for a few months at this point,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: and they could have been overlap. Rex Orange County comes
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: along on in September twenty twenty three. I'm with my
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: friend and we're in the mosh pit and I turn
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: around and I see him and his new girlfriend walk in,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: and I just couldn't help myself. I walked straight up
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: to them. I don't know what came over me. I'm
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: usually quite shy and non confrontational, and I said, Hi,
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: I'm Kate. Has Ben told you that Rex Orange County
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: sung our wedding song. She looks at me and shock
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: and he says she knows. And I said, you have
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: some nerve bringing her here. And he said we're leaving,
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: and I said, good go. He leaves. They walk up
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: the stairs and they I can see them at a
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: different entrance up here. My friend and I just stay
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: where we are in the mosh pit down the bottom,
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: and he starts gesturing at my friends and waving at her,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: doing weird gestures, and it's so strange until the first
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: band comes on and the lights go out. I then
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: just try and forget about him. Our wedding song comes on.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: I cried the whole time, but I just thought, I'm
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: not going to let him control where I go and
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: ruin these special things for me. He used to serenade
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: me all of Rex's songs, and so the fact that
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: he took her to Rex's concert just felt really sick.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: We end up going through a binding financial agreement and
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: seeing each other to sign forms at the police station.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: In November twenty twenty three, Ben comes to the appointment
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: at the police station to see the Justice of the
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: peace and during this time we're making small talk and
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: he admits and apologizes for taking his partner to the concert.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: He admits it was disrespectful and takes full ownership. At
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: the end, he gives me a huge hug, and I
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: gave him some of the old cards and love letters
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: and things that we'd written each other or that I'd
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: specifically written to him, and he said, I have a
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: kate box at home. I'll never forget you. He gives
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: me a big hug, and I think, Okay, this is great.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: We've ended on really good terms. I may never see
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: him again.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Around the time all this was going on, another X reappeared.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Remember Jake, I go on Instagram and see that amongst
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: some of my friendship group and wider circles, my ex
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: situationship is being called out online by multiple women for
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: instances of sexual assault and abuse. I instantly am distraught
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: and all my old trauma gets brought to the surface.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: From twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, I knew that
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: this day was going to come. I knew that he
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: wouldn't get away with it. I knew, due to the
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: amount of women he was involved with and the nature
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: of his personality, that I wasn't the only one he
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: had impacted, and that one day things may come out
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: about him. Two of my exes exes started sharing the
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: stories of other women online and I got in touch
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: with them. Due to the three years on and off
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: that I'd spent with him, I instantly deactivated my Instagram
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: as I needed to protect my mental health, and a
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: day after the story started coming out, I was sent
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: an old video of Jake where he was threatening me,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: saying unspeakable things that I didn't know existed. The video
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: had been filmed maybe eight years ago, and it sent
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: me into a depression like I'd never experienced before. I
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: was at work at the time, and I just remember
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: having the panic attack of all panic attacks. I was
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: on the ground. I couldn't breathe. I saw this video
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: and heard the things that he'd said about me, and
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: he'd said horrible things to my face, but these things
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: were unspeakable and just discussing vile, threatening things. A week passed,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: and that happened to be during the same week that
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: my divorce was going through court, so I needed to
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: contact Ben to find out if the divorce was granted.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: He'd been the one to file and pay for it.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I was clear on that with him, that I wasn't
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: going to do that when he was the one that
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: chose to leave me, and I email Ben to find
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: out if a divorce had been granted. He said yes.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: A few days pass and the situation with my ex
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: situationship being called out online is escalating, and I'm feeling
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: like I need to share the video so others can
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: hear and see what Jake is like firsthand from his
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: own voice. I allow his ex to post the video
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: with my permission, even though I still don't have Instagram myself,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: and I think that it will help. Even if just
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: one other woman sees this video and remembers his face
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: and doesn't want to go on a date with him,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: I think that that would be worth it in the end,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: So she posts a video. A week after the video
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: is posted, I receive a phone call from the police
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: to head down to the station as an IVO was
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: waiting for me. I'm beside myself. I'm so anxious, I'm shaking.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. I was already in
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: a complete state of shock and had been reliving my
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: past with Jake that whole week, so I'm very on
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: edge when I head to the police station. When I
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: get to the police station, I'm handed the papers thinking
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: it's from Jake, and the papers were from Ben. The
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: IVO essentially is written incoherrently basically stating that I'm benz
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Ex's wife, that I am going to be posting on
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: social media about him, that my friend has followed his
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: partner on Instagram. I have no idea who this is,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: who's followed her. We have many mutuals, so I truly
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: couldn't tell you who could have followed her. That he'd
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: broken out in hives, that he couldn't function, that I
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: have absolutely no reason to post about him, That I
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: stalked him and his partner at the festival and followed
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: them for hundreds of meters, That I'd blocked the entrance
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: to the mosh pit when I saw them at the concert,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: which again wasn't true. I'd never moved from the center
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: of the mosh pit and stopped them from walking back in.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: There was everything in the IVO I could refute and
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: had witnesses for, and had evidence for. Essentially, I'm again
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: beside myself, completely in shock. I don't know how to
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: react to this, and I called my friend who's a
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: lawyer to get some help. My lawyer ended up sending
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: a letter asking for an undertaking or a withdrawal of
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: the IVO, as it was spurious and wasting resources, money
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: and time. The IVO was completely hearsay and it couldn't
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: be reasonably associated with me. We also really made it
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: clear that this is a system that's for vulnerable members
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: of the community, and this was a way that he
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: was controlling me.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Kate realized Ben's actions were driven by fear and a
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: design to control the narrative after that damaging video surface,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: determined not to let him dictate the outcome. She fought
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: through months of legal negotiations before reluctantly accepting a one
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: year court undertaking to avoid being dragged through further turmoil.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: While this was happening and he was sign up the undertaking,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: I was taken into the support office at the court
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: and the support worker that normally supports the person who
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: lodges the undertaking came in and said, Hey, Kate, I've
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: just read your case. We have all been watching him
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: and his girlfriend all day. They're in the safe room
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: of the court right now. They have been giggling away
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: all day. She's like, I can see right through this instantly,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: and the strong feminist in me wants you to fight
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: this undertaking and fight this IVO. And I just said,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you so much. Thank you for saying that.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you for believing me when you haven't even heard
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: it from my mouth. Thank you. I was crying. My
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: mum was next to me, and she was crying. And
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: they said, I had no idea he was even in
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: the court I thought he'd be zooming in for it.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I had no idea he was even in the same
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: building as me. And turns out he'd been sitting there
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: with his girlfriend laughing the whole morning and making a
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: mockery of the system. And she was like, we have
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: all been watching them and thinking, what are they even
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: doing back there? It is not okay. And so she
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: instantly said, I think you should fight this, and I
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: just said I can't. I have no fight left in me.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Let me sign this one year document and be out
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: of here. So when I went into the courtroom, I
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: was shaking head to toe. I could hear him and
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: his girlfriend on the other side of the barrier. They
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: were hid him from me, so I couldn't see them.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: They talked the whole time as the judge was starting.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: I guess the hearing, the judge basically said I'm not
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: to do the things on the undertaking. I can't go
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: within one hundred meters of his work. I think we
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: edited that to one hundred from two hundred because he
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: works three hundred meters from me, and essentially I'm not
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: allowed to contact him do all those things, which I
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: had no intention of doing anyway. It was honestly just
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: heartbreaking because I've never ever had a situation like that
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: where I've had to deal with the courts, deal with
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: police anything at all, and he was just using it
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: as a way to control me and control the narrative.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: I leave the court with my mum and decide, Okay,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: I'm going to move on with my life. I'm going
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: to take my long service leave and I'm going to
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: book the trip of a lifetime and I'll go to
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Europe for nine weeks. It was truly the most life changing,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: freeing experience, and everything about that trip was perfect. Visited
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: some of the places we went on our honeymoon, and
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: rewrote those memories. I reclaimed those memories. I went back
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: to the same tatoo artists in Amsterdam and got my
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: tatoo changed so it no longer matches his. I just
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: did things for me and for me alone, and it
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: was the best experience of my life. I was able
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: to be alone with my thoughts. I was able to
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: think through a lot of the trauma that I'd been
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: through with him. I was able to create so many
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: new memories. I was able to really reflect on some
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: of those red flags, and when I got back, I
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: was like a whole new person. I'd found my spark again,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: my happiness again. I'd even been open to the idea
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: of dating again and met a couple of guys while
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: over there. While nothing romantic happened, it was just great
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: to put myself out there again. And everyone had said
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: to me in those last couple of years, I think
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: you should start dating. It'll help you get over him,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: because I was just holding on to him and I
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: was always thinking about him and loving him. But I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: really on that trip accepted I loved a version of
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: him that no longer existed, and I really needed to
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: come to terms with that, and I think I did
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: on that trip, and it was just this turning point
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: in my life. When I got back, not long enough,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: I found out that he'd gotten engaged and had been
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: in Europe at the same time as me. Thank goodness,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't know while I was there on my trip.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Recently I heard he said to my friend that he's
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: been doing so well since his big reset two years ago.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: And it's true. He reset his life, he pressed reset.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: He has only a couple of the same friends that
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: he did when him and I were together. I never
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: asked anyone to two sides. He did it for them.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: He blocked everyone. Everyone is blocked. My best friend's dog
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: is blocked on Instagram. It is so crazy to think
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: that this person has taken such lengths to restart their
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: whole life. My whole family was devastated. My mom was devastated,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: my sister, my niece, everyone was just completely heartbroken and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: never got a chance to have a goodbye, never got closure.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: It was just one day. He blocked everyone and never
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: spoke to anyone again. And so now I'm thirty and
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a divorce a and I'm really leaning into that stereotype.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: It's very chic, I think. After Europe, I've just started
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: dating again, and I've actually had some of the funnest
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: dates of my life and have met some really great,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: awesome people through the dating I thought going into it,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: I was so anxious. It took me two and a
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: half years to be able to start dating again after him,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: and he'd already gotten engaged in that time, and I
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: hadn't even kissed another man or held another man's hand,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: and he'd already gotten engaged. And I just thought I
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: was the most boring, unlovable, unattractive person. And now I
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: just I feel like I've learned how to flirt. I'm
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: actually enjoying the dating experience. I feel like I've found
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: my confidence and sexuality again. All the men I've been
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: on dates with have told me you are so much fun, Kate,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: you are so much fun organically, And it's actually been
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: so uplifting and so enlightening to hear that about myself
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: when he really made me feel like I was so
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: boring and so worthless. I don't know if I'll ever
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: trust anyone again. I definitely have trust issues, and I
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: think about how my dad will never get to walk
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: me down the aisle again. But I've learned so much
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: from the experience, and I'm just having so much fun
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: now restarting my own life with the same friends, the
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: same house, the same cat, and yeah, it's just been
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: such a joy finding myself again and finding my spark again.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: I truly feel like I'm the happiest I've ever been
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: right now, and just I feel like I'm succeeding in
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: every aspect of my life except for romance. But that's okay.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: It's just casual and no pressure up right now. I'm
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: just having so much fun. So I do think everything
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: happens for a reason.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Everyone has an ex is a Minti Media production, proudly
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: part of the Mum and mea network. This episode is
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: written and produced by Linda Scott. Interview conducted and the
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: episode narrated by me Georgia Love. If you have a
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: story you'd like to share, email podcast at momamea dot
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: com dot au. You can support us by following the
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: show and your favorite podcast up and leaving a five
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: star review. We'll see you for the next episode.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: Thinks