Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / The NeverEnding Story (1984) - Wolfgang Petersen | Houselights #135

Transcript

The NeverEnding Story (1984) - Wolfgang Petersen | Houselights #135 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd Polity. Welcome back to Houselights, our directors discussion show
0:24
here on the Nerd Party Network. We're continuing in the house of Peterson of
0:28
the nineteen eighties as we discuss his nineteen eighty four fantasy epic The Never Ending
0:33
Story. Although I do promise this podcast will end at the appropriate time.
0:38
I'm Darren Moser and I am joined again by my friends the Hunter of the
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Purple Buffalo Warrior Tristan Riddell and the one with the big strong hands, Rockbiter
0:49
John Mills. Gentlemen, then nothing is approaching. Are you ready to have
0:54
your childhood scarred? As we discuss this film The Never Ending Story, which
1:00
that's want to be. My first question as did you watch this as a
1:03
kid and did it scar you? Because many a child in the nineteen eighties
1:08
would would say yes, what about you, John Well, I was a
1:12
child in the nineteen eighties, That's true, and I did watch this on
1:17
VHS also true. However, unlike most gen xers, I have a different
1:23
perspective on it because by the time I encountered The Never Ending Story, you
1:27
know, eighty four, I'd already seen like DC Cab and you know,
1:36
easy money with Rodney Dangerfield. So my film growth was a little bit weird.
1:42
So was I enough of a child to enjoy the never ending story by
1:47
the time I encountered it on videotape? That's the question, that's the question.
1:51
Or had I been grown up a little too fast? With my filmfare,
1:53
We'll find out you hadn't heard about these things called books. You had
1:57
to do some imagination on your side. Although I did have an uncle who
2:01
loved to read and he smoked a pipe and that guy looked kind of like
2:05
him. We all had that uncle. Well, you know, I feel
2:09
like that's an eternal uncle. It is, it is. I mean,
2:14
maybe none of our uncles owned a bookstore, but it was, you know,
2:16
close enough, close up. Yeah. What about you, Tristan?
2:20
Was this something you caught again on VHS when or maybe a sleepover at a
2:24
friend's house and then you never wanted to sleep ever again? This one,
2:30
this one was weird because I remember watching it as a child. I remember
2:36
flashes and key moments, but I don't remember why we watched. I have
2:42
more solid memories of watching the second one, okay than I do the first
2:46
one, but I don't remember where. I don't remember when. I just
2:52
remember being really little and watching it. Either we rented it from the from
2:57
the rental store or something like that, but I hadn't. I haven't watched
3:01
this since I was a wee lad, like super small, maybe in diapers,
3:07
I'm not quite sure, so it could be a couple of weeks,
3:09
but yeah, like I have didn't didn't watch this until just this weekend in
3:15
preparation for this podcast. So a lot of it was like I would watch
3:20
this with my wife, as I do with with most of the stuff that
3:22
we podcast about UM, and she was the same way. And as I
3:27
was watching, I was like, yeah, I have no memory of this.
3:28
I have no memory of this. And I was like, oh,
3:30
it's starting to come back. It's it's it's one of those things that just
3:32
burned buried, I should say, really deep in your brain. Maybe the
3:37
Ivory Tower shows up with that key theme and you're like, okay, I
3:40
kind of remember this and the really weird giant head rock people and just the
3:46
you know, the poor Man's Motley crew up there, but well, like
3:52
that was actually a pleasant surprise. But the um, of course I remember
3:57
the horse drowning. Yes, as everybody does. Everybody remembers that I remember
4:02
Foulk or I remember the Impress and that's about it. Like that, those
4:09
are pretty much those three things, is what I remembered. What about you,
4:14
John, what parts tickled your memory watching this? Or was it because
4:19
I was all there never left? I didn't really care for it as a
4:24
kid. I've revisited it every so often. This is one of those movies
4:27
from the eighties, like the Goonies, where it was like if you didn't
4:30
love it, like you just questioned reality, where you were like, Okay,
4:32
I gotta give this another try because everybody around me thinks it's amazing,
4:36
so I just got to keep giving it a shot. So I've given it
4:40
a number of shots through time. There's one weird memory I have from seeing
4:44
it for the first time, which was when He Ate the Apple. As
4:48
a kid, I was watching it with my dad and he like consumed the
4:53
whole thing and I didn't see a core and I was like, Dad,
4:57
that's weird, man, Like why did he eat the core? And my
5:00
dad was like, well, some people eat apples, and like I really
5:02
held onto that as a kid, I was like, that's disgusting. Did
5:04
he actually eat the core of that apple? Are you kidding me? Like
5:09
that? Yeah, that was my thing. I was like, what kind
5:13
of monster is this bastion? He's he's not really a human being, and
5:17
uh yeah, I remember the even back then, like the attic. I
5:21
was like, that's the attic to that school. That doesn't seem to make
5:26
sense. But okay, that's a midtown, midwestern town attic, not a
5:30
New York City street attic. Yes, okay, I'm so glad that you
5:33
mentioned that because my wife Um went to a very nice high school, like
5:41
like one of the top schools in the state, everything like that. I
5:45
went to one of the bottom schools. It's it's a it's lucky I know
5:48
how to read. But she she said the same thing. She's like,
5:54
what what kind of what school has an attict like that? I was like,
5:57
my school had an attict like that. It was disgusting, it was
6:00
horrible, Like it was a safety hazard, Like we very much had an
6:03
attic like that. Yeah, but I doubt that it looked like like it's
6:08
just it's maybe it's part of the whole thing that they're weaving that, like
6:12
he runs up into an attic like that, and it's supposed to signify that
6:15
he's already entered into this realm that's sort of like a magical different thing than
6:21
the actual school's attic. I could buy that if the film language said that
6:28
instead of almost communicating that that attic key it seemed like he had used it
6:32
many times. Yeah, it seems like this was his hideaway spot that he
6:36
this is where he ran when he didn't want to interact with people. So
6:41
so if if if film wise they showed him break that for the first time
6:45
to grab the key and get up to the attic, maybe it's like,
6:47
oh, okay, he's entered the that that attic is like some magical bridge
6:53
between the two of them. But yeah, it's just it doesn't feel it
6:56
felt like he knew exactly where that key was. Yeah, you know,
7:00
he knew that that's where the janitor left it because the janitor was lazy and
7:02
didn't want to put it on their ring. And they're just like, oh,
7:04
I'll just leave in here. No kid's gonna go up to this attic
7:06
except for Bashan m. Yeah, speaking speaking of which, Bashton the entire
7:13
movie, Oh my gosh, are they just not Are they just not pronouncing
7:17
it. I did not know this kid's name to the age of subtitles.
7:21
I seriously did not. I was like, what, because it is the
7:25
weirdest thing. I've never heard that name before. Maybe it's common in Germany.
7:28
I don't know, but I that was a really weird name. And
7:31
its whole name, Bastion Balthazar Bucks. That sounds like someone out of Fantasia.
7:38
It really does you know? Let me because you mentioned it, Darren,
7:42
Like, is it possible? Because this book was originally a German book,
7:47
It's done by a German director, and it's put together for an international
7:51
slash American audience, right, it's supposed to play equally. Well, well,
7:58
there's a German version. Sorry to cut you off, but there is
8:00
a German version, and Spielberg actually helped cut the international slash American version,
8:07
which is what we watched fair. I'm endlessly curious because I believe that that
8:15
that there is some sort of cultural bridge, the attic being a representation of
8:18
it, the names, those sorts of things. I think that there is
8:22
a I think that there is. You're taking something that is probably a uniquely
8:28
German point of view and putting it onto a bigger stage. And I think
8:33
that there are some translational problems, not literal translation like language like, there
8:39
are some cultural translation problems that occur. Yeah, I could see that.
8:46
Yeah, no, so the I probably watched this first, you know,
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not in theaters obviously, I was a little too young for that, but
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definitely like either a rental or watching at a friend's house. And man,
8:58
oh man, the nightmare fuel uh, the the wolf, the Grimac.
9:05
That was what haunted my nightmares, that lived in every dark shadow. As
9:09
I turned off the lights to head to my room, I could not rewatch
9:13
that part. It. I don't know if it's the green eyes. I
9:18
don't know if it's just the green it's all. It's just green eyes and
9:20
a mouth, that's all it is, coming out of the darkness. But
9:24
man, that is still one of my number one. If I had to,
9:28
man, I had to make a short list of things that terrified me
9:31
as a child, I'd say that one. The Boogeyman from the Real Ghostbusters.
9:37
That episode with the there was a character called the Boogeyman that looked creepy
9:43
as all get out. That also the cartoon from the cartoon Wow, see
9:48
what was that thing was? It. What was that thing? Was it
9:52
like an Elison one on one thing where like the muppets were dancing around and
9:56
then like they pop their eyes out. Oh yes, you're thinking of Labyrinth.
10:01
Uh yeah, the Labyrinth where there's they're they're they're furry and fuzzy and
10:05
then they take their eyes and put them on the edge of their fingers and
10:09
then they put them in their mouth. Yeah. Yeah, didn't didn't sleep
10:11
for weeks. Yeah, Labyrinth for weeks. See again, this is this
10:16
is where maybe somebody did me dirty when I was growing up, or maybe
10:20
it was just television in general. But by the time I saw The Never
10:22
Ending Story or Labyrinth on VHS, I had already seen Halloween and Halloween two
10:28
one fateful Halloween Night coming back from trick or treating. So Darren, I
10:33
wish I could say, like, oh boy, that will scared the hell
10:37
out of me, But like I couldn't turn my back on a flight of
10:39
stairs because Michael Myers was behind me one hundred percent of the time. Yeah
10:45
no, but it's just so funny. How especially in the eighties, I
10:48
don't know what it was about children's programming where you're like, this is okay,
10:54
I mean to get not that we couldn't handle it, but we also
10:58
are often scarred or remember for it. No this this. I'm glad you
11:01
brought that up, because like, as my wife and I were watching this,
11:05
we're like, man, the eighties were a different time like kids of
11:09
today. And I'm not saying this as an old man, Like I'm not
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saying that could just today don't have the attention span or anything like that,
11:16
like kids today watching this would be scarred and bored at the same time.
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And John go ahead, queada, No, well, okay, maybe this
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is not to myke. Maybe somebody's gonna call child Protective Services when I say
11:30
my kids wouldn't be scarred by this, Oh gosh no, because because I
11:35
just asked me all the time, like like every single time we watch something
11:39
like, we're like, did John show his kids this? And I was
11:41
like, probably, listen, eventually you have to encounter the existential crisis that
11:48
is the Shawshank redemption. And I say seven is the right age for that.
11:52
And I'm just kidding people in the audience, I'm just kidding. My
11:56
kids haven't seen Shawshank yet. Come on, they will sit lord and you
12:00
definitely got a double take from me, like I wish people could have seen
12:03
my face just now. Yeah, no, I um sky high tris I'm
12:09
I'm relatively I mean, the thing is, I'm your your sort of stereotypical
12:13
gene. I made it through it. Yeah, I know, but like
12:16
I made it through it, they can make it through it sort of thing.
12:18
I've made one that is such a gen X trait. I'm so glad
12:22
that you've listened. But at the same time, like a misjudgment occurs every
12:28
so often. Because my youngest she encountered the Penguin and Batman returns, and
12:31
she did fine for like the first thirty forty five minutes of the movie,
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and I would stop. I was like, are you sure you're okay?
12:37
Like penguin's a little freaky, right, You're all fine. She had no
12:39
problem with the penguin at all until he was menacing toward Batman and that the
12:43
things change dialogue between between the two of them when the when like stuff's dripping
12:48
out of his mouth. No, she didn't, she didn't get it.
12:52
Like the nose bite scene. No, that didn't even phase her, didn't
12:56
even phase her. It wasn't until he was menacing to or Batman that and
13:01
it was like things change like that freaked her out. And I'm like,
13:05
okay, well I gotta be a little more judicious here. Um. But
13:07
you know, mostly my kids can can roll with it. Um, but
13:11
I'm not. But to your point, Darry, that's just I know my
13:13
kids so like they they love this movie. Like that has helped me a
13:18
lot is actually watching it with sort of the intended audience. Is that's different?
13:26
That is true. I mean as a as a kid's movie. I
13:28
mean it is a kids movie. It's this is an evergreen. You know,
13:33
adults would love this, not that you couldn't love it as adult,
13:35
but is it is a fantasy, it's made for for kids. It is
13:37
it is a story book. Um, but yeah, you you also have
13:46
It's yeah, it's so interesting though, um because I feel like, so
13:50
we'll talk a lot about well not a lot, we'll talk a little bit
13:54
about how this Obviously, as Tristan had mentioned, uh, it got the
13:58
Spielberg treatment, and Wolfgang was like, hey, I made this movie.
14:01
I want to bring in two American audiences. Spielberg helped me out Joggers like
14:05
boom boom, Let's make these changes. I did find a video that kind
14:09
of talked about the two changes between the German and the American version. Very
14:13
minimal as far as like clips and run time, more differences in like the
14:18
music the whole. A lot of the music is very different. For one
14:22
thing, there's no pop song. It is not in the German version.
14:26
It is. Yeah, I mean I want um, well, you know,
14:35
as the synth was coming up, I'm like, oh, Tristan doesn't
14:37
like Sinse. I don't know if he's gonna like but um, I feel
14:43
like that at its core, though, it's more like explaining a little more
14:48
like there's lines that Bastian says about the swamp of sadness that aren't in the
14:52
German version. You're just like the horse just starts sinking and and yeah,
14:58
you know a Trey who talks about it a little bit. But I think
15:00
American euties do kind of need a little bit of hand holding of like what
15:03
am I watching here? You know what's going on? I want to talk
15:09
Okay, I want to talk about that a little bit because I've referenced this
15:13
a little bit at the beginning, talking about like kids watching it, like
15:18
John, you actually watched it with your kids, and you said that they
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loved it. Yeah, so they didn't think it was slow at all.
15:24
They didn't think like it was the youngest, the youngest does the two oldest,
15:31
they're into it. The youngest. She is definitely a product of modern
15:35
times. And then you tell the audience, can you tell the audience your
15:39
your three daughters ages? Well, I don't want them to know too much
15:43
about me, Tristan, Fine, No, I'm kidding. Sixteen, fourteen
15:48
and seven. Okay, so there, yeah, as we all know.
15:50
Oh, I mean, I guess as the three of us know. There's
15:54
a big difference between in age wise, between your youngest in your middle.
15:58
So sixteen, fourteen and seven, that's that's a big difference. And so
16:00
I have a six year old, and I was trying to think about how
16:06
my six year old would view this movie. She would frigg and hate this
16:11
movie. And I think that's when I watched it, was when I was
16:15
that age. I was born in eighty six, and I think I watched
16:22
it around that age, if not a little younger. And I have very
16:26
few memories of it. And as I'm watching that, it's just like,
16:29
good Lord, this is for children, like not only is it scary and
16:33
weird and odd and a little messed up. It's slow as balls. That's
16:41
a technical term. It's so I'm just like Mike, like like, and
16:47
I'm trying to think like okay, so you feel like the whole group,
16:49
whole movie is at the pace of Moya, the ancient one, talking like
16:55
this, yeah yeah, and she's also allergic to yeah. No, I'm
17:00
sorry, I just want sidebar for half a second. Again. Honestly,
17:04
I understood this movie a lot more when the age of subtitles came because I
17:10
did not know what Bastian's name was. I thought they were skewering Sebastian the
17:15
whole time. I didn't know that Maria said that she's allergic to youth,
17:19
not you. I thought she said I'm allergic to you like human. Wait,
17:26
okay, because I didn't watch it with subtitles. Yeah, she's saying
17:29
youth, not you. I thought she was specifically saying she was allergic to
17:33
betray you. No, she's allergic to youth because she's old. That makes
17:37
more sense. And I also didn't know the mom's name that he yells at
17:42
the end, because of course it's at the it's it's Moonchild, which again
17:48
I'm not making that up. That is the mom's name, the beautiful name
17:53
that he that would be perfect with the child. A sempress is Moonchild because
18:00
they have the giant crap. They have the clash of the lightning right as
18:03
he yells it, you can't hear a dang thing. But there's so many
18:07
things in this movie where I'm like, that would have been really important to
18:11
make sure that was a really clear part of this movie. All of this
18:14
is dubbed, Like, every single word of this is dubbed. There's not
18:18
an inch of nats sound in this movie. And um, A tray You,
18:26
that's not even his voice. That that's that's a different actor. Like
18:30
no, no, that's that's so weird because it feels like his voice,
18:33
like it's I'm so ingrained with that. I'm gonna be on this one.
18:40
I'm gonna be teen tristed on this one. That the first time A Trey
18:41
You speaks every single time that I've seen it, I'm like, what,
18:45
wait, what, Like it doesn't it doesn't seem to flow. It's just
18:49
like when I watched it this time and I saw deep Roy pop up,
18:52
I was like, oh, my god, deep Roy and then he opens
18:56
his mouth and I'm like, oh, like that's somebody else that's totally not
19:00
Deeper. Yeah, that's not what he sounds like. That is true.
19:03
That is true. So he basically took everything from his uh DA's boot days.
19:10
Was like, you know, let's just ADR everything. We don't even
19:12
have to record sound. They probably didn't on the entire set. You know
19:18
why. It makes you wonder like did they even roll sound? Because I
19:22
mean the I mean maybe you can sinking bad audio. Yeah, for sinking
19:26
you have you have to do something so but you don't have to worry about
19:30
it. You have to worry about being good. Yeah, it's just insane.
19:34
Like more movies. How do I phrase this? Movies do ADR more
19:41
often than the average watch? Oh yes, yes and absolutely. And when
19:45
it started, there's good ADR and there's bad ADR, just like there's good
19:48
CGI and bad CGI good cgily notice because it's like tweaking things. This is
19:55
an example of bad ADR um. I would I would tend to follow on
20:00
on Team Tristan with that one as well. I think that the it's one
20:04
of those things where it's hard to describe, but when you're in tune with
20:10
the knowledge that a DR is there, and ADR is a tool that well,
20:15
you don't even have to know that a DR was used on the film.
20:18
There's something about how breathy the sound is where you can really tell it's
20:25
a DR. Because AD always sound like somebody's in a booth. You will
20:30
never sound like some natural sound of like yeah, word, you're looking for
20:34
his room tone. There's no tone like a trainer. Doesn't sound like he's
20:37
at a swamp. He sounds like he's in a conference room, exactly.
20:41
That's exactly right now. Conference room will give it credit for is the the
20:47
for ninety percent of the film, the green screen work and blue screen back
20:52
then. Yeah, I want to I almost swar so harding it. I
20:59
live for these moments. This is why I'm here, That's right? Why
21:03
is this? Why is this? At? What is what's wrong with this?
21:06
You? You like I swear the F word in my mouth forming the
21:12
words? This has made me so happy. Wait, Fantasia, I want
21:18
everybody to know in the hundred something episodes, in a hundred something episodes that
21:22
we've done, this is the happiest I've been the entire time that I frustrated
21:27
him this badly. It was. It was such, you should be I
21:33
should get I should be shot me. I should get a medal for restraint
21:37
on that one. I'm so happy right now you have no idea like go
21:47
on the matting, the um, the blue screen, the the film cutting,
21:56
the overlay. All like ninety percent of the time that was really good,
22:02
Like it's specifically for this era of filmmaking. It was really solid.
22:06
Like when there were times when you know, like Atreus would be on Falcourt
22:10
and I'm like, holy crap, like this is this is literally well they
22:12
do their angles that they do their angles. But then there was other times
22:17
when I'm like, like in the wide shot, like when Fulcore is doing
22:21
like the dip up and down, You're like, oh, yeah, there
22:23
there are I do feel they also knew when not to try to make it
22:26
work, Like when he grabs a tray you it's like literally half a claw
22:32
out of the top of the frame. Like they know they can't show any
22:34
more than that and it's not gonna fly, so they just don't. And
22:37
it's like and then you're off and you're on the next beautiful shot and boom
22:41
boom. But and and like when Atreus is walking like. They have a
22:45
ultra wide shot of atreus walking um like through the gates um with the big
22:52
um space statues. Yeah, um sphinx like their potato potato Like that was
23:00
cut. That was overlaid and superimposed really really well. Like I was looking
23:03
really closely on how that was put together, and it was a lot of
23:07
it was seamless. So much of it was seamless. And there was a
23:11
shot that I noticed because I so when the uh what's his name, the
23:18
crazy old man um, the scientist is in the is in the little bucket
23:25
and he's and his wife is cranking it. I noticed, I'm like,
23:27
why are we cranking like this? Why are we doing like that? I'm
23:30
like, a, oh, it's because of the wide shot. Because the
23:34
white shot is is a model and she's just glued her. She's just glued
23:40
to that crank and that the turning motion is what is animating the puppet.
23:44
And it's because that wide shot where you have big tray you and they're you
23:48
know, little. But again, it clicked so seamlessly. I mean yeah,
23:52
if I was looking closely, I could tell that it was miniature work,
23:56
but it was it was the proper technique for that shot. I don't
24:00
know how else they would have done it, So glad you brought that up.
24:03
That was very much on the forefront of my brain when I was thinking
24:07
about what worked like that special effect, specifically that shot night. Granted,
24:11
they were smart, they did it at night. They showed it at nighttime
24:15
in the night sky where you like, you know, the darkness can hide
24:17
a lot of sins um. But but a tray, you and the scientist
24:22
up on the hill right before he goes to the sphinx with the with the
24:26
tell with the telescope, like it worked really well. It was. It
24:30
made me think a Lord of the Rings, like with you know, with
24:33
the way that they do right, he's supposed to be a little guy that's
24:36
like maybe half a tray whose height and but he's obviously a full grown man.
24:41
But he it works it really Falcore like I mean, you know,
24:47
like they built one Falcore and then they rebuilt the set around him, just
24:49
like the Millennium Falcon. But it worked when they pull back on that wide
24:56
shot of the of all of him. Okay, it works for eighty four
25:00
I'll say that. Okay, okay, thank you for qualifying it. Sorry,
25:03
than the lip sync is a little rough, but they get it in
25:08
the eyes. They Falcoor's eyes. I mean he's a dog. He's basically
25:14
a dog with a giant, long body tail like he. Everybody loves Falcoor
25:18
because I think they capture you in his face. I don't know that.
25:21
I love Falcor. I think Falkoor is okay this, you know, I
25:27
think Valcor is charming. Like there, I'll say, kids think Falcor is
25:33
charming. I thank you for the reference. I cannot watch this movie without
25:38
thinking of Family Guy. Oh, Peter, you little big guy. Oh
25:42
oh you think we could lay Yeah? Um, I think that if anybody
25:48
has seen The Family Guy where Peter is writing Falcore, it's pretty great.
25:55
Um, Falcore is good enough. Falcore is Sie Snoodles in nineteen eighty three.
26:02
It's good enough. This is the best we can do, so we're
26:04
gonna go for it sort of thing. John Obviously that reference. Yeah,
26:10
we all know that reference of sly Noodles. Just for the sake of argument,
26:14
pretend I don't know that reference. Oh my apologies. Si Snoodles was
26:18
the lead singer of the Max Rebo Band, and in nineteen eighty three it
26:22
was good enough for her just to be a marionette and have her lips just
26:26
go blah blah blah blah blah. And of course if you made it today,
26:30
you would not do that same sort of thing. And Foulcore falls short
26:33
in a couple of places, like his teeth. His teeth looked like molded
26:37
plastic. They don't look like now you know, he picks up the paw,
26:42
the toes aren't jointed like it's it's you can tell it's one piece of
26:48
plaster or whatever. It is. Like, there's little things like that that
26:51
don't now again, live a kid doesn't necessarily care about that, and so
26:56
it's like, it's okay, it's one of those series. Here's my child,
27:00
my kid analog. I'm supposed to imprint on flying on a luc dragon.
27:03
That's all I care about. It's awesome. And he goes and he
27:06
comes into our world and fights my bullies. Like what kid wouldn't love that?
27:11
Yes, And I well, I you know, it's it's interesting because
27:15
Falcore showing up the end speaks a little bit, I think to some of
27:19
the messiness of the movie. That's a whole nother Yeah, yeah, well
27:25
we should. Let's talk about the ending. Let's check up ahead, let's
27:26
talk about the ending. Well, I was mentioning to you, Tristan before
27:30
that the ending, because I mean it does kind of feel like tacked on.
27:34
He's like, well, what do you wish for? Uh, the
27:37
end of the movie? And then it ends, but the and then then
27:41
it's not the end of the story. Yeah, but then a voiceover artist
27:45
that we've never heard a narrator that we'd never hear before. Yes, yeah,
27:49
never here before. And it's like there could be a sequel tune in
27:52
next time. Bye. You cannot introduce a narrator at the at the eleventh
27:59
it's not even the eleventh hour, it's the eleven fifty nine. Well,
28:00
and especially since Bastian has been the narrator up to now. And I'm sorry,
28:06
are you saying Sebastian or Bastion I think he said since Bastion since okay,
28:15
But something else that it robs you, and something else that it robs
28:18
you of is and maybe this is too too much of a trope. I
28:22
don't know. Something else it robs you of is him having the moment with
28:26
his dad at the end. I would say that a staple of a story
28:30
like this is you have to have some of that resolution with the father figure
28:36
to say, Dad, I'm choosing my own way, and the father begrudgingly
28:38
acknowledges, Okay, you're right. You have to find your own way in
28:44
the world. I found my way. You found your way. And I
28:47
know that this movie doesn't lend itself to that, but that's sort of an
28:52
an expectation of the story, as is one of the characters in Fantasias should
28:56
have been had the dad's voice. Oh, the wolf, Yeah, the
29:02
wolf should have had the dad's voice. I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily go that
29:10
far. I would make it. I would maybe make it like the rock
29:12
Biter or some companion. I would say the wolf, because the wolf's whole
29:17
point is that nothing is coming. Who cares, I'm gonna help it come.
29:21
It's just the way his dad. But it is his dad, because
29:23
his dad is the one sitting there after making some monstrosity that involves a raw
29:29
egg and orange juice and he's drinking it there and he's sitting there and he's
29:33
like, oh, you know, mom's dead, but you know, you
29:34
gotta focus and keep on moving, kid. But that's the wolf. The
29:41
wolf is like, you can't fight the nothing. It's gonna come. Okay,
29:44
what are you gonna do about it? And the dad and the wolf
29:48
really do sort of mesh in that that sense, and it would have made
29:52
sense for the dad's voice to be the wolf, because that's what a tray
29:56
you. And therefore Bastion is fighting is the resignation to the idea that the
30:02
nothing is inevitable and so you might as well just give in. I mean,
30:04
I thought, I agree, and I think you probably would have gotten
30:07
that maybe one or two more passes through the script, you know, but
30:11
it that's not what we got. But what do you think What I can't
30:17
get over is the genius writing of having this, having Gerald mcrainey, who's
30:23
a fantastic actor. Yes he is. Don't let your mom's death get in
30:29
the way of getting possibility, you know. Whatever whatever it was he said,
30:33
it was just like it's terrible father later, Okay, I understand,
30:37
like there's bad father's out there, There are people there, there are father's
30:41
out there who don't know how to parent without the mother. I get guilty,
30:48
But to have such a so obvious line, you might as well have
30:52
had him like it's it's right up on par with somebody saying the wrong kid
30:56
dad. You know, it's just yes, it was such a weird.
31:03
It was such a weird statement to not it was to not have any follow
31:07
through. And I think, John, that's what you're talking like, do
31:10
not have any symmetry at the end? Nope, Nope, bookend is super
31:15
weird, super weird and easily fixed. Easily. Like, this was a
31:19
very expensive movie. This was fifty million Deutsche marks US. Yeah, this
31:27
was the most expensive non American movie made, um, I should say movie
31:34
made outside of the States at the time. You could have gotten a reshoot
31:42
to have you know, Bastion walk back home after he rides Falcore and talk
31:48
with Gerald McCraney and and have a closing arm and have a closing conversation.
31:55
Yes, And it's just to correct the record. It's sixty million deutsch Mark,
32:00
which was around twenty five million the US back then. Million. I
32:04
didn't think it was quite two to one, but yeah, for twenty five
32:06
million budget, one hundred million box office in US, so it did well,
32:12
really well, one hundred one hundred and again this is one of those
32:15
things where it's like, oh, in my day, but like a hundred
32:19
million was your blockbuster benchmark. Yeah, back then it was one hundred million
32:23
dollars with the you know, adjusting for inflation, blah blah blah blah blah.
32:29
Like nowadays, we're so used to that Disney marketing juggernaut of we made
32:32
we made the GDP of a small nation with one release, and it's like,
32:37
back then, we thought one hundred million dollars was a lot of money,
32:40
and it's like, but now you don't make a billion, you're not
32:43
really a hit. And it's but like that was massive. That was a
32:46
massive hit nineteen eighty four. Yeah, No, absolutely massive, No,
32:52
it was. And I think I think we've hit on some of the points
32:55
on just the story. Um, but I do think, you know,
33:00
I wanted to let's circle back around to the music. So we have the
33:06
you know, the super pop intro and outro, but beyond that, I
33:13
think there's some some really good music cues in this. You know, there's
33:16
kind of the the main Fantasia theme, you know with the strings which you
33:21
kind of have when they're flying. There's a lot of flight music. Ivory
33:25
Tower que is one of my favorites, Like, I don't know, I
33:28
mean something really special about the every Tower. But it's it's a really impactful
33:31
cue when it hits you and you're just like, oh, this is a
33:35
special place, like this is where the Empress is, is where we're going.
33:38
It feels like magic and it's a very I mean, it's a very
33:43
unique building, like I've never seen anything like it in fantasy or fiction.
33:47
And then you know you have a Treys theme. So John, what do
33:52
you think of just the overall just the music, just how it it's I
33:58
was getting tiny princess vibe, Princess Bride vibes as far as like you have
34:02
a little bit of synth and stuff like that. That's as deep as I'm
34:06
going. But what did you think of how that told part of the story.
34:12
Well, I'm glad you mentioned Princess Bride because this time on this watch
34:15
through, because we watched Princess Bride so recently. I definitely picked up that
34:20
Princess Bride, there's a vibe very similar to the the scientist and his wife.
34:24
I was like, oh, this is a Billy Crystal Carol kind of
34:28
is the music I thought was fine. I didn't think it was special.
34:37
Everybody loves the song that's become a pop hit. You know, the never
34:40
Ending Story. Okay, I get it, and it's a Stranger Things reference
34:44
now and all of that. But I remember because we just watched dos Bolt.
34:50
I never thought of it in terms of Oh, the same composer did
34:52
this score, and I saw his name in the credits. I was like,
34:57
huh, I wonder how well this is on a play. And then
35:00
I also saw Giorgio Moroder, who also did um. He did some some
35:07
odd ball ones here and there. It kind of feels like a tale of
35:10
two composers, like trying to you had like this first pass it didn't quite
35:15
work or jedl but see it can it can work really really well. See
35:21
Last of the Mohicans, that which is one of the greatest scores of all
35:24
time. And then this. This is fine. I don't have any specific
35:31
problem with it, but I also don't think that it is something where I'm
35:36
like, yeah, I'm gonna put on the never Ending Story sounds like Last
35:39
again, going back to the Last Mohicans or something contemporary with it. I'll
35:44
listen to to Last, I'll listen to Indiana Jones and the Template Doom.
35:47
I'll listen to et. I'll listen to a Return of the Jedi. I
35:50
listen to Ghostbusters. Am I like Never Ending Story? I'm like, maybe
35:54
I'll listen to but yes, yeah, more than But like you know,
36:00
if I do Never Ending Story, it's going to be like, oh,
36:02
listen to this theme song ironically and then move on to the next thing.
36:08
It's fine, there's nothing terrible about it. But there's nothing that I think
36:12
is particularly special. That's my take on it. I'm sure that makes me
36:15
a terrible person. I don't know. Then let's go on to some of
36:20
the characters. So this of any of the early eighties fantasy, Like,
36:27
we have a variety of movies with interesting characters. You have like Sloth from
36:32
Goonies, you have this one feels like it's so interesting. It's like nowadays,
36:40
you know that every single person at the top of the Ivory Tower would
36:44
be from modern IP. They'd be recognizable. Because this is supposed to represent
36:49
all of the fiction of fantasy, of every story, every told, every
36:53
magical place ever written. And I swear there is some like, uh,
37:00
what was the Federation Council of Star Trek two level vibes of some of these
37:07
creatures with like dual eyes and heads, and it is really interesting character design
37:15
as far as these eye characters. Loved that character. I loved all those
37:20
characters. I loved the huge head guy. What vibe did it give you,
37:23
Tristan? What is man? I don't know how to describe the vibe.
37:27
But I loved the creature work in this Yeah. And I don't want
37:30
the tone of my voice to convey too much positivity because I I did not
37:37
like this movie, and I'm I'm trying. I want to get okay to
37:40
like the character design and I'm noting it yet the pacing, but I love,
37:45
Yeah, I love the character design. That was one of the things
37:47
that really stuck out to me was just the big heads, the multiple eyes,
37:52
the multiple faces, where like they had like the the the Yanis thing
37:57
or however you want to say janis Janus? Like really, I think it's
38:01
well, that's the way they pronounced it a judge dread, which features um
38:07
the same actor that was in Doss Boat. So I'm gonna say Janas Okay,
38:12
alright, but back then, back in back in ancient room, they
38:15
probably would have said uh, probably would have said Janus. But right,
38:19
I don't know. I think exactly, but like even the Star Wars,
38:22
like the Star Wars references in the background, you know, like with Yoda
38:24
and whatnot, you know, like like all that stuff. Like I really
38:28
liked it, I think, And and even with them um with a Moses
38:31
Gun, like just having a little bit of a peak. He's not human,
38:37
No, there's no humans here. It's and even a tray a trey
38:42
you was supposed to be like in the book, he's he's green, like
38:45
his skin is green, and that would have been interesting to green hunting the
38:50
purple Buffalo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I loved it.
38:53
I love that. That was probably my favorite scene, was all of those
38:57
those creatures put together. I just want to make a special shout out to
39:00
Moses Gun in that scene because he has always been one of my favorite actors
39:05
who showed anything. He's so good. But but that's the thing is,
39:10
you want to talk about a guy who nobody I could walk down the street
39:14
and be like, do you know who Moses Gun is? And nobody everybody
39:16
be like, who the hell are you talking about? That is a guy
39:22
who had screen presence when he walked out. He was old school. He
39:27
would walk out and the camera knew who it was supposed to be paying attention
39:31
Al Ginnis of the Fantasia. He really is something like something like that.
39:36
But like when he was out there, I was engaged, Like it was
39:39
like, oh, okay, I'm paying attention to him. He was a
39:45
terrific I'm sorry. I don't mean to say was he is. No,
39:49
he did pass away in ninety three, so okay, fine, I can
39:52
say was. But he was a beautifully gifted actor. And I think that
39:58
the casting of him in this film was a master stroke because he played the
40:04
exact right role. That is the role he needed to play in this film.
40:09
But but it's a you know, in terms of character design, I
40:17
love the character I agree with you, Tristan that I love the character design,
40:22
but it's it's one of those things where I look at these characters and
40:30
I my brain immediately says the sketches were better than the execution. With the
40:37
exception of a few things. I look at it and I say, oh,
40:43
that's really clever. That probably looked great on paper, and instead it's
40:49
stunning to me that it did cost so much money it budget wise, because
40:54
I don't necessarily see that budget on screen in those character designs. You take
41:00
me back to Return of the Jedi, or you take me back to I
41:05
think Darren you mentioned Sloth from Goonies. I see budget in those things because
41:10
they're convincing there. I know the magic trick behind them, but I buy
41:15
in. But there are certain things in this film, and I think that
41:21
this Council of Fantastical Creatures thing is a great example of it, where it's
41:28
like, oh, the concept was there, they just didn't quite get the
41:31
execution. And frequently it's like, but you had the money, so you
41:37
can't use budget as an excuse for why you didn't get there. So why
41:40
didn't you get there? And maybe some people think I'm being too hard on
41:44
it, but you know that's just where I am with it. Yeah,
41:49
I mean I think I liked all of the cleverness, you know where you're
41:52
looking at it, and especially with like the dual faces or the eyes where
41:57
you think for half a second and you're like, Okay, how where is
42:00
the human inside this? Like you you have to kind of think for a
42:04
moment, which is good. I mean, I want to be kind of
42:07
challenged in that way. But I love that, you know, Matt paint
42:10
or not a Matt painting. But the the Matt shot of that terrace you
42:16
know, which you know is like the largest sound stage they had, and
42:21
they built this massive court and put the camera really far in the corner and
42:27
you know, and then matted around it, and then you know, all
42:30
the skies are are replaced. But again because it's it's eighty four, so
42:35
everything is is real, everything is or some sort of optical trick to put
42:39
it into the camera. Um, you know, I love the little the
42:45
three messengers we meet the rock Bier, you know, the racing snail and
42:49
the and the bat. You know again, I they're just memorable enough for
42:54
the moment we see them, because we never see them really much again or
42:59
they're not a part of the story, but uh never, the Rockbrider gets
43:02
a lot of lines. He talks, he talks quite a bit. But
43:07
that's good. But now in you so you go through this adventure, you
43:12
know, you have the testing of a tray, you you know, and
43:15
then at the end he's you know, trying to get back as as the
43:21
world is being destroyed. What do you guys think of the villain being nothingness
43:25
and being like again, how do you think it worked? How they represented
43:30
that visually, because you can't just say, like, here's the black literally
43:35
black nothing. I mean, I guess you could, but it may not.
43:37
It may not work as well. I think it's effective for the kid
43:45
audience of the time. I think that the film falls down a little bit
43:53
because I think a great read of the film is if you look at it
43:58
and you say, well, then nothing is representative of Bastion's fear of death
44:04
because his mother has died, so he sees the nothing as death. But
44:08
then they layer on a thing where the nothing is the death of imagination,
44:14
which speaks to what the pipe smoking bookstore owner is in the death of imagination
44:20
because you're darned kids play video games. Oh oh, if only he lived
44:23
to see this age. But it's one of those things where it's like,
44:29
what does the nothing really represent? Does it represent the loss of imagination?
44:36
Does it represent death itself? And I think that that's where it's sort of
44:40
falls apart a little bit. The opening sequence obviously is supposed to represent the
44:45
nothing invading Fantasia, but even that, it's really just a bunch of cool
44:52
cloud tank effects. Yeah, it's a lot of cloud tank and that's one
44:57
of the big differences again in the music. In the German version, the
45:00
beginning is kind of an eerie synth track that you know, doo doo doo
45:07
doo doo doo doo doo doo doo like theme that's playing in the German version,
45:12
and I watched a comparison video on it, and it is haunting,
45:15
like it gives you a very different vibe of like because it's supposed to be
45:20
I think Bastion dreaming because he wakes up like I dreamt of Mom again,
45:23
and which again is a very different tone than what we get in the American
45:29
version, which is, you know, the pop song playing, and you
45:32
know it's like, oh hey, guys, here comes the Fantasy Tour,
45:36
the magical Mystery Tour. It's it's very different. I think you could almost
45:42
I mean, they don't do it, but you could almost have the nothingness
45:45
represent growing up and losing that sense of fantasy and wonder. But that's not
45:51
where they go at all with this story. You know, It's honestly,
45:54
it took me a couple of views to even realize that his mom had died,
45:59
because it's I mean, I get that they say it, but if
46:02
you kind of miss it in the very beginning of that early scene, like
46:06
they only kind of mention it once, and if you like, I just
46:10
I don't think I caught it enough that that is what had happened, because
46:15
there's not really mentioned throughout it. I mean, he says, my mom
46:19
had a beautiful name, but besides that, they don't mention it at all
46:22
throughout the whole rest of the movie. So little Darren missed that for a
46:27
while. I think that I think that the toughest thing is, let's go
46:34
back to another movie we watched recently in the Hallway of Ephron, where we
46:38
watched Sleepless in Seattle, and that had the it was it was thoughtful enough
46:47
to have the scene of them standing at the funeral to clearly communicate visually what
46:52
had happened. Now you can still communicate through dialogue. But to your point,
46:59
Darren, if there's if there's a portion of the audience that doesn't get
47:04
why Bastion is having a hard time, then a lot of the thrust of
47:08
the movie is a bit lost, where you know, it's It's one of
47:15
those things where I agree, I wish it had been communicated a little more
47:19
cleanly. I don't know if that is a product of the you know,
47:24
adapting the film and then read ring it and all of those sorts of things
47:30
to bring it across. But from you know, from what I've read again,
47:37
with some of the changes from the German version, besides adding more music
47:40
and more tone, it's short. I mean, this version is shorter.
47:45
The German version I think is around one hundred and one minutes and this one's
47:49
ninety four. So they cut out little bits here and there, a shot
47:52
here, a shot there. And I think from what I've read is that
47:55
the German version has a lot more melancholy in it, a lot more of
48:00
hanging on Bastion as he's thinking about how he's feeling or the moment or the
48:07
emotion. And not that that's not in this movie, but I think it's
48:10
sounds like they double down on it in the German versions. It's definitely a
48:15
cornerstone. I mean, it's possible that my German ancestry is coming to bear
48:22
here saying I want to see that longer version. Maybe it would speak to
48:27
me in a different way. But again, it spoke to my kids.
48:31
Okay, So maybe I'm just not the right audience. Maybe I was never
48:37
the right audience to have seen this film because of the way I came up
48:44
and the things I had seen by the time I encountered it. Maybe this
48:49
is something where it's it's hard to describe if you were coming up in the
48:52
eighties trying to explain to somebody in the nineties why the Muppets were so magical?
48:57
Is you know, I always going back to Homer Simpson. Well,
49:00
it's not quite a mop and it's not quite a puppet, but boy,
49:02
it's really funny. You know. It's one of those sorts of things where
49:07
I think that if this film hits you at just the right time and just
49:13
the right combination of factors, it turns into that absolutely magical reference of your
49:20
life sort of thing, Whereas if those tumblers don't align quite right, it
49:25
doesn't strike that same chord. Now, I think that's true, Tristan,
49:30
Do you feel the same way where if if you don't have a hefty dose
49:37
of nostalgia for this because of being in that right place and right time growing
49:43
up, does this movie really not click or hold hold hold up? Yeah,
49:51
not at all. I think without nostalgia, this movie has nothing.
49:53
This is this is poorly constructed. This poorly executed. The pacing is horrible,
50:00
the writing is horrible, and it's just the the acting is subpar because
50:05
everything is adyr poorly except for you know, with the childlike Empress and um
50:14
with and Moses gun and and you know, there's obvious exceptions and everything like
50:17
that. But I couldn't stand a tray you. You know you you basically
50:21
you have Bashton and a tray you, and I couldn't stand either of them.
50:24
And they're they're the leads, and especially a tray you, and just
50:30
there's so much wrong with this movie. And I wanted to like it.
50:36
I wanted to have that childlike wonder and I kept trying to put myself in
50:40
a childlike state and I couldn't get on board. And a tray you was
50:45
not charming, a tray you was not magnetic, and Bashtion was just kind
50:50
of there that the structure didn't pay off until the very end. It's it's
50:54
kind of like, I get hate for this, but it's kind of like,
51:00
um, oh my gosh, I can oh geez, the Christmas movie
51:05
Jimmy Stewart. Um, it's a wonderful life. It's a wonderful life.
51:08
It's a wonderful life. Um there's like I don't think that movie needed of
51:15
the alternate reality, and so many people are like, but that's the crux
51:20
of this film. I know, that's the thing I get called monster.
51:23
You know, children point at me in the street. But with this movie,
51:30
like you could, I could, I could absolutely get it. I
51:34
can understand a cut of this film without Bastion, without the modern day,
51:38
where it just takes place in Fantasia. But then you'd have to rework the
51:43
conversation between a tray you and the Empress. But that's only where it gets
51:47
interesting when you get like super meta yeah, where you know the Empress is
51:52
talking into a tray you where they start talking about Bastion, who's reading the
51:54
book. But then it gets onto another layer of inception where they start talking
52:00
about the people who are watching Bashton. They're like, oh my god.
52:02
It's like when you go to an avant garde theater performance, you're like,
52:06
we're a part of the show. Um, I hate like stuff. Nobody
52:12
likes it. But like in that moment, like that's the only cool moment
52:16
to me where it's just like, oh that's interesting. Too bad we don't
52:20
have a whole movie of that, because otherwise you're wasting your premise. They
52:23
have a few moments like where he yells out and he's like, oh,
52:29
how they couldn't have possibly heard me? But there's too little, too late
52:32
exactly. It's like, that's cool. They should expand on that. They
52:37
should expound on that. There should be moments, there should be more interaction
52:40
between our trae, you and Bashton, whether whether whether obvious or not,
52:45
that should have been more. And also also just the freaking horse. The
52:51
white horse died way too early, narratively speaking, way too quickly, too
52:55
early and too quickly. It is definitely the too quickly thing, because it
53:00
is it always blows. The movie sort of has me up until that where
53:07
I'm like, wait, what was the swamp of sadness took? What happened?
53:10
Like it really moves too fast, and this is the this is the
53:17
thing where you know, sometimes you feel like you're you're a crazy person because
53:22
you don't love the same thing that your generation loves. I always talk about
53:25
jen X in this movie. Blah blah blah. But even the author of
53:30
the book did not care for this adaptation and said, this is a quote
53:35
from an article at the time, he said the makers of the film simply
53:38
did not understand the book at all. They just wanted to make money.
53:44
So if the writer of the book says that there was an issue translating it
53:51
to film because the blue screen, yes, that's purely the only it's the
53:57
foul core puppet. Actually, Now there are times where that's not true.
54:00
For instance, you know, Stephen King hated the adaptation of The Shining But
54:08
it's because they're in different media and they excel in their own media, right,
54:15
that's just the way that it is. They respect what the audience,
54:17
how you communicate to the audience in this different media. I think that never
54:22
ending story probably, even though I've never read the book but I want to
54:25
now, it probably exists in that hellish space between wanting to be too faithful
54:32
to the book and therefore hamstringing itself in the film expression of it. Now,
54:40
I don't hate the film. Spoilers for the ratings later, I don't
54:45
hate it. But it's definitely something that has a number of problems trying to
54:52
achieve what it wants to and there are a lot of things where it feels
54:58
if you know, you know, if Peterson is sitting down with Spielberg to
55:06
say, hey, Stevie boy, give me some edits here to help me
55:09
bring it down. I don't think that Spielberg necessarily helped him, or you
55:14
should have sat down with Spielberg of like when he's writing the draft and it's
55:17
like, hey day on preproduction, not on post post post production. It's
55:23
like, what is he gonna do. He's gonna snip a little here,
55:27
change a little music, maybe at a little dr and narration. That's all
55:30
you can do at that point, right Or I like what you were saying
55:36
though, John about that. It's just it's an adaptation, and how do
55:38
you Where do you draw that line? I think of Jurassic Park or Lord
55:45
of the Rings, where as a core they are that story in the book,
55:50
but they do take liberties in good ways, either changing characters slightly or
55:57
making adjustments on when the story chapter ends and whatnot, and so it works.
56:00
So there are definitely ways to do it well. Fantasia. Again,
56:05
we haven't read the book, but we can kind of infer that it was
56:07
not done as well in this film well, even independent of the book.
56:13
And I'd throw another Spielberg adaptation out their jaws the people are all despicable.
56:17
In the novel from Peter Benchley and Spielberg, Spielberg wife like having an affair
56:24
with Quint or something like that. Not no, not Quint, not Quint.
56:29
It was with I always forget his name, the Richard Dreyfus character Hooper.
56:34
Yeah, yeah, anyway. I've never read the book, but I
56:42
can still look at the film and judge it on its own merits, and
56:45
I think that there are certain aspects that just fall short. The ending is
56:52
just one of them. I hate the fact that instead of teaching a good
56:59
man message to the children in the audience to say there are always going to
57:06
be bullies, you sort of have to figure out how to work in the
57:08
world and get around that. Instead, in the last minute, it turns
57:13
into a revenge fantasy of a kid writing a giant, scary dragon that terrifies
57:20
the entire population of this nondescript city. You know, as he's writing through
57:25
scaring everybody, and it's is it that that's happening in his imagination? Is
57:31
that it's really happening? Is like there are too many question marks around that
57:37
it just doesn't work as a result, And I can almost guarantee you that
57:40
is probably not in the book because this was the halfway point of the book,
57:45
Like the story keeps going, so you don't even have the whole story,
57:50
so of course I can't end properly. Yeah, this ending was borderline
57:53
malfeasance. It's I honestly feel like someone could have sued for like not including
58:00
the author, but I feel like the studio could have sued the Wolfgang Peterson
58:05
for the ending that he gave. It was absurd, it was, but
58:09
it's positively absurd. But let's couch all of this in this sense. It's
58:15
still made blockbuster money. It's still made so much one hundred million dollars,
58:21
right, we talked about this. It made blockbuster money for the day,
58:25
and it's a it is such a lower back then, well, it's it's
58:31
such an absolutely insane cultural reference that it comes back in stranger things that this
58:38
is a beloved reference of a movie from the nineteen eighties. People go back
58:45
to this, people adore it, people think it's great. The Family Guy
58:47
episode made fun of it, all of these sorts of things, and it's
58:52
just one of those things where it's bizarre because again, it just feels weird
59:00
to have these strong negative reactions to aspects of it, and it makes you
59:07
question how am I watching movies? Have I lost the ability to find joy
59:14
in the simplest pleasure when I look at a movie like The Never Ending Story
59:17
that is endored by so many people. Oh, I know I have,
59:21
and everybody else is wrong. I'm right. I think I think you just
59:22
have a different sense of tolerance of bad movies. Like we see so much
59:28
and we know when things are good and when they're bad, and we but
59:31
we also know that just because a bad portion, like justin you're saying,
59:36
you know and you can shift into your final thoughts. But like, I
59:38
liked what you said about you overall don't like this movie, but you really
59:44
liked the character design on that terrace and like, and that's okay to like
59:49
a part of a movie or an aspect of Like again, I love the
59:52
Ivory Tower theme, like that opening shot and like is it is magical.
59:57
It's probably the most magical shot of this movie to me. But that doesn't
1:00:01
necessarily mean you know that Falcore breaking the fourth wall into the real world makes
1:00:07
any sort of sense in the ending of the movie. Zero, Yeah,
1:00:13
zero, I've already gone on and on, like I ranted about what is
1:00:17
wrong with this? With this movie, so much is wrong with this movie,
1:00:21
and there's very little right. What is right is nice. But I'm
1:00:24
just going to go right into it, and I'm giving this a generous two
1:00:29
this is I'm getting the same rating that I gave to us both this is.
1:00:32
This is not a good film, two point five if you give it
1:00:36
a little bit of a bump after Oh did I okay? Well this is
1:00:37
less two stars, two solid two stars. I this this is not a
1:00:43
good movie. It's I don't know what, people. It has to be
1:00:45
rose colored glasses. It has to be nostalgia glasses. That's all that I
1:00:49
can think. I think it is. It is. It absolutely is.
1:00:53
Now, before I go into my rating, the one thing we didn't talk
1:00:58
about is that there was a discussion about doing a remake, or probably they'd
1:01:04
call it a reboot. Now and the infamous Kathleen Kennedy in twenty eleven said
1:01:10
that problems securing the rights to the story may mean that a second adaptation is
1:01:16
not meant to be. Well, it's been a few years since twenty eleven,
1:01:21
so it has, but not as but as recently as twenty twenty two,
1:01:24
there's like a bidding war for the rights for streaming and studios like is
1:01:30
it going to be a series? Is it going to be a film?
1:01:32
Mini series? Would work? I mean, there's a lot of dense material,
1:01:37
it seems, but I don't know. I don't know if the story's
1:01:38
there to I justify that much time. With the way the streaming ecosystem is
1:01:45
collapsing, I think that the bidding horse probably on hold for a little bit
1:01:50
as we record this. But I think that a series, it probably lends
1:01:54
itself to a series like I think, or eight episode series. I think
1:01:59
it could really I think a fourth episode with a promise of a second season
1:02:02
or something like that. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta tease the
1:02:05
audience along, get at least three seasons out of it, get the Netflix
1:02:08
viewers, and stuff like that. The problem I think with this is this
1:02:14
is something so much of its time, and it's it's got a good heart.
1:02:22
I think that when you watch this, even when you have problems with
1:02:25
it, you know the intent is so pure that you want to give it
1:02:30
as many breaks as possible. That said, I will also give it a
1:02:37
very generous two simply because the things that like it keeps me in it.
1:02:43
My kids were in it, but it kept me in it up until a
1:02:47
certain point, and then it drops off sharply, and I think it's the
1:02:52
swamp of sadness is where suddenly I sit there and I say, where was
1:02:55
the editor in this? What happened here? What? How did this happen
1:03:01
this way? And I really hinge on that, because after that everything feels
1:03:07
rushed. Everything feels like they're just taking shortcuts to get to the next point
1:03:10
in the story, and it turns into a bullet point movie. And I
1:03:16
have every intention of seeking out and watching the German version of this, because
1:03:22
I have a serious The most recent Blu ray Is is the German version with
1:03:27
English dub well. I have a very sincere belief that this is going to
1:03:34
be something where the longer cut helps it a great deal. But for the
1:03:39
American version, the version of everybody knows the version they reference in Stranger Things,
1:03:45
I'm going to go ahead and give this two stars because I'm in a
1:03:47
good mood and to give it lower probably get me death threats. Now,
1:03:53
I think I think we've said a lot of it all. I think,
1:03:57
yeah, I think the nostalgia is probably what would hurt it most in some
1:04:03
sort of remake reboot, because you could tell a beautiful story, and you
1:04:08
could actually do justice to the effects and the characters and no adr and all
1:04:13
of that. But everybody is comparing every frame to this rose colored, beloved
1:04:18
movie that they haven't actually watched in about twenty years that they remember from their
1:04:24
youth. But if they did go back and rewatch it because they were listening
1:04:27
to a great podcast called house Lights, they would realize this is not actually
1:04:31
that great of a movie. And again, you're talking about a very specific
1:04:38
slice of America that was at that right age, right time saw this in
1:04:43
theaters. You know, had a Valcore plushy at home or something, you
1:04:46
know, loved luck Dragons. So yeah, I would not if I would
1:04:53
not want to be hired onto the production of a of a remake of this.
1:04:56
I don't how could you win. I don't know. I mean,
1:04:59
great, you could if you put out something really, really interesting, but
1:05:02
it would just feel like such an uphill battle. So I too, am
1:05:05
going to give this a two overall. Again, there's great moments. I
1:05:12
also don't watch it very often just because it scares the but Jesus out of
1:05:15
me, Like, I'll kind of watch it from the side, like,
1:05:17
Okay, there's the well, I know he's going to be there. There
1:05:20
he is, And I think that's just for me personally, having that particular
1:05:25
character linked with, you know, just scariness in my childhood. But as
1:05:31
I promised the ever, this is not the never ending podcast. We are
1:05:35
coming to an end. So Tristan, what are we going to be talking
1:05:40
about next week? As we round out the three films of Peterson of the
1:05:45
eighties, we are talking next week nineteen eighty five Enemy Mine, starring Lewis
1:05:51
Gossip Junior, and Dennis Quaid. In order to hear what we say,
1:05:56
please tune in next week on house Lights. Join the Evolution, Joined the
1:06:00
Nerd Party.