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The Deals You Make and Don’t Make with Mariners GM Jerry Dipoto · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. I'm your host, Bad Levine.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: From being drafted in nineteen eighty nine to currently serving
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: as the Seattle Mariners President of Baseball Operations, Jerry to
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Poto has spent the last thirty seven years pouring his heart, soul,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and wisdom into the game of baseball. This marks the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: second half of our conversation with Jerry. In this episode,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Jerry discusses his tenure as the general manager of the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Anaheim Angels, his decision to resign from that coveted post,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: his path to success with the Mariners, and some of
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the most impactful trades that he made and some that
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: he did not make along the way. Well, you know, Jerry,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: it's you know so much as embroiled in what you
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: just commented on him. You're good friends with Josh Burns.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: He gave you the opportunity to go there. You're good
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: friends with aj Hinch. You and Josh had invested in
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: him as the manager in Newlson. You're effectively benefiting from
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: them leaving, and just to be able to handle that
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: with the professionalism you did. And then furthermore, I think
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: so many times when you get these interim tags, you
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: try to put a stamp on your last couple of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: months to try to justify their decision and solidify your
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: position as the GM moving forward. I recall the same era.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: In fact, I was with the Texas Rangers at the time.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I was the assistant GM. I got a call from
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: a guy who will remain nameless, who was also in
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: an interim status, and he called me and said, hey,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I got to make a trade to make sure they
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: know I know how to do this job and make
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a real impact on the franchise. And I said, all right.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I was like licking my chops. I'm like, this is
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: exactly the type of guy I want to make a
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: trade with. And he said, would you guys talk about
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Steve and Drew? And then I said, oh, this is
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the Texas Rangers. You meant to call the Arizona Diamonbacks
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: for your call. And then I thought to myself as
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I hung up, I bet you that guy doesn't retain
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: his position, and sure enough he didn't. So Jerry, I
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: want to Okay, So let's fast forward basically a year
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: or so and it's October two, twenty eleven, and you
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: were named officially the general manager, no interim tag at
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: all here at the Anaheim Angels.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: How did that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Day compare to say, the first day you were called
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: up to the big leagues as a player.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: You know, again, this time I felt like I was prepared,
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: you know, like the the experiences that I had in Arizona.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: You know that ultimately the disappointment of not, you know,
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: I guess getting the long term job there. But if
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: I'm if I'm being honest, if I remember correctly, Josh
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: told me at the time, he said, the likelihood of
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: you keeping this job long term is not very high.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: And I accepted it for what it was. I stayed
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: on and contributed in scouting and player development in the
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: following year, and then I got my opportunity in Anaheim,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: and I remember the elation. You know, it's funny we
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: were talking about Buck Showalter. And you know this because
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: how frequently we've talked, especially in those years I was.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: I was simultaneously going through the process of interviewing for
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: the job with the Angels and the open job with
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: the Orioles. And uh, part of my high opinion of
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Buck Showalter is that my interview process with the Orioles,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: it was an eleven hour marathon live interview hosted by
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Russell Smouse who was near and dear to you and me,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: uh and and Buck Showalter was was sitting there for
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: eleven hours, and that maybe the and and never waivered
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: had better questions than than anybody else who came and
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: went from the room, who ranged from you know, owners
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: to other members of the front office. And and I
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: was just taken with how prepared Buck was with everything.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: And then I was thrilled when the Angels offered me
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: their job. And part of that was at that time,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I've got three kids all in school. We lived in
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: in suburban Phoenix. Staying in in in the west southern
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: cow was was a lot easier for us from a
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: family perspective than going to Baltimore. And I was also
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: getting the opportunity to go to a team that had
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: an insane amount of talent already on the major league roster,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: which by itself, when you get these opportunities, you don't
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: often get these opportunities with perhaps the best prospect of
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: the last fifty years in your trip a clubhouse and
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: the players around the field like Howie Kendrick and Tory
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Hunter and Kendri's morales and one of the best starting
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: rotations in the American League. So I thought there was
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: the opportunity to do something to quickly get back to
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: the success that they had more recently had. And I
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: would say when I got called up to the big leagues,
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: I felt nervous, you know, it was a nervous energy
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: and I have to show somebody that I'm ready to
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: do this. And inevitably that's when you start squeezing the
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: ball a little bit tighter, and know, the sliders hang
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: a little more and the sinkers don't sink quite as much.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: By the time I got to Anaheim, you know, I
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: don't think I was in that mode. I was in
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: try to build up around the foundation of this team
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: to get them back to the postseason, and and then
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: started looking at infrastructure, because very different than when I
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: ultimately came here to Seattle. When I first got to Anaheim,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know whether they did me, you know, a favor,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: or or left me hanging, but I had no one
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: when I walked in the door, you know, And I
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: think that is, you know, these many years later, that
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: is to the benefit of Justin Hollander. You know, when
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: I got to Anaheim, there were three people working in
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: the front office, you know, Kathy Mayor, who was our
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: executive assistant and remained there for the next four years. Lover,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: she did a fantastic job and was so much more
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: you know she was. She was part of our planning,
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: you know, on virtually every level. And we had we
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: had two Baseball operations assistants, one of whom was Justin Hollander,
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: who at the time was single, and uh I was
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: I was just sinking my teeth into getting to know
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: a new organization, and Justin became my resource on everything,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: and I quickly learned to appreciate he was a wealth
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: of information. He was a quick study. Anything that I
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: threw out there, he could digest and spit back out.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: He wasn't afraid to tell you what he really thought
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: instead of what he wanted to hear. And he also
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: knew where the bones were, which was hugely valuable in
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: that situation or most others.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: And then shortly.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Thereafter we went through I don't know, maybe two or
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: three days later, we hired Scott's Service to come over
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and oversee scouting and player development, and maybe I don't know,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: ten days or so two weeks after that, we brought
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: over Matt Clintac to become the assistant general manager, and
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: we had a fledgling band, you know, from so we
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: started with you know, Justin who was singing solo by himself,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: and an organization that needed to fix a lot of
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: things internally, and within about a month, I thought we
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: had put together, you know, a really fun base to
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: what became the foundation of our front office for the
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: next four years.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Jerry, this was another instance where we kind of intersected
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. So October twenty eight,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: twenty eleven is also a noteworthy date in my life.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: That was when the Texas Rangers lost Game seven of
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the World Series to Saint Louis. It was a soul
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: crushing experience for me, but adding insult to injury, as
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: we want to do at that era, we flew home,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: you know, got home, I feel like maybe around two
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: or three in the morning, and we had a nine
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: am meeting with the staff the next day in which
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: we you know, meticulously went over every single player from
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: that year and had off season plans set up on
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the whole bit. And I remember it was at one
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: break that the general manager, John Daniels pulled me aside
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, Nolan Ryan, who was the team president,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: just came over to me and said, hey, JD, I
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: think we're going to lose Shaed, and so I don't
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: know exactly what he was saying. He thought he was
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: saying Thad, but what I always heard was share shared,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: And JD said, oh, do tell what's going on? He said, well,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: the Anaim Angels called and asked if he would be
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: available to interview for their GM job, to which JD said, well,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I think they're announcing jury today and I think he
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: took the job like four days ago. And Nolan was like, well, great,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I guess we're not losing Shad. Let's go have lunch.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: But I will say John Carpino, the team president for
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: a long time, and you got to know, well, was
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: very gracious. The next General Managers meeting that off season,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: which was I think just a couple of weeks later,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: he pulled me aside and said, hey, I would be
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: happy to ask you the interview questions that we asked
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: people just so that you have the experience, and he
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: graciously spent I think over an hour with me doing that,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: which was a very kind gesture. Indeed, on his part.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: So your time in Anaheim was, you know, riddled with
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: some exceptional highs, I'm sure, because you got to work
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: with some amazing people, as you referenced, and you got
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to watch Mike Trout, one of the best players of
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: our generation, if not the best player. But it comes
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to an end a couple of years later, and it
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: comes to an end in a very rare way, which
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: is on your own terms. What what What went into
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: your decision to ultimately resign from what at one point
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: was your dream job.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: You know, it was a I would say, it really
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: wasn't that hard a decision, and it was probably more
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: emotional than I like to be when I'm making any
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: type of life changing decision, you know, but I just
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: reached a point where I felt like I couldn't help
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: the team move forward and uh in a in a
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: productive way. And you know, I think it it startled
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: everybody when when I decided I was going to leave,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: and I knew that it meant I was operating without
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: a net.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And you know, I I love the game.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to be out of work, and but
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I just felt like there was no way for me
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: to move forward with some of the things that I
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: wanted to do and the things that I wanted to
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: create and and just felt like I wasn't able to
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: do it. And and I don't think that's anybody's fault,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: but just the when you get a variety of people
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: who might think in different ways, pulling on different ends
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: of a of a rope, at some point someone has
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: to acknowledge that they're not capable of getting everybody moving
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: in the other direction. And and I think that's the core,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: you know, that's leadership is, you know, is trying to
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: get everybody moving in the same direction to accomplish something
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: that you wouldn't otherwise be able to accomplish. And and
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I failed at that. You know, it wasn't something that
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: that uh, you know, if I look back through the
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: years and I we we weren't where we needed to
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: be in terms of you know, infrastructure, The decision making
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: process wasn't consistent and and wasn't repeatable, And you know,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: that's it's something that that if I look back and
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: and I and I write it down for whatever chapter
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: that plays in the in the book of my professional.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Life, I didn't lead well enough.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: And and if I would have, then you know, maybe
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: it would have worked out differently. But I won a
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: division title. We had a ninety eight win season. Like
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: you said, I got to be around anything from iconic
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: players of the generation and you know, I got spent
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: four years of my life in Newport Beach, which doesn't suck.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: And uh and more importantly it what whatever, you know,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: the end was like there. It allowed me this opportunity
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: almost immediately afterward, and this has been the most.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Rewarding thing that I've ever done in my career.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: Is more so really than than playing, which I was,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: you know, only fair, but you know, this has been
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: an unbelievable experience.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Here in s Yeah.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Well, Jerry, I just want to say that, Uh, you know,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate how professional you are in responding to that.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: The reality is not all of these hands are meant
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: to be won, and we're not miracle workers, right. I
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: think part of the reflection too is, you know, when
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I look at successful franchises across all the major sports,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: most of them have really strong synergies between their owner,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: their chief executive, and their their head coach or their manager.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: The ones that have synergies across two of the three
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: have fleeting success. The ones who have. You know, patent
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: failure over long periods of time have disconnects across all
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: three and so I think the reflection I would also
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: have if I were you, is you weren't meant to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: overcome the challenges that were present there at the time.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: It wasn't set up for you to have a pinnacle success.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: So you yielded the post to the next person who
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: hopefully was going to have that opportunity, and you sought
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: out an opportunity in Seattle which was better suited to
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: your talents and your skills, and that you know very
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: uniquely you left Anaheim and then you do get the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: job in Seattle soon thereafter, as you were evaluating that opportunity,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: was there a criteria that was now shaped by your
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: experience in Anaheim that was vital for you to make
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the decision to join another franchise at the Helm.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know my understanding. After I came here, I
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: went through I don't know about five weeks working as
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: a special assistant with the Red Sox. Began with Ben Charrington,
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: ended with with Dave Dombrowski. You know, both still friends
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: to this day and have been incredibly gracious to me
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: in my career. But when I came and went through
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: the interview process with Mariners, as you may recall that,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: you know, the first interview process I ever went through
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: as a as a general managerial candidate was with the
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Mariners in two thousand and eight, and and just like
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: that player, you know it was, it was when Jack
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Creensick was ultimately hired and I got down to the
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: finals with Jack and ultimately they chose him, and I
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: stayed in Arizona. And when I was going through that
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: process and we went through, you know, four layers deep,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: and I came back to Seattle multiple times to go
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: through the next interview, you start envisioning yourself in that spot.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: You know, whatever it is, that city, that team, looking
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: at those rosters. You have to be immersed in it
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: to be good at what we do. And you know
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: when every time that you go through those those experiences,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: you become part of that organization. And so there was
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: always a part of me that felt like that, just
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: like the player who was drafted that ultimately gets you know, traded, right.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: And when I came back and went through the interview
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: process the second time, which was in two thousand and fIF teen,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: so this is September of fifteen, I was walking, you know,
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: I was actually with my wife and son. We were
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: in Toronto. My son had just graduated high school. He
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: was getting ready to go off to college, and he
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: was this will once again bring us to a crossroad.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: He was in I'll call it his Josh Donaldson face.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: You know, he was Josh was at the time at
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: the top of his game with the Blue Jays and
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: and they were trending. It was he was the bringer
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: of rain, you know, the MVP and Jonah my son had.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: You know, he had like Josh's hairstyle, he had his
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: look going. He thought he had the Josh Donaldson vibe
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: minus the power.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: He didn't bring the rain. He brought the drizzle. But
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: we were in Toronto to see the J's for a
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: weekend series and then go to Boston and meet the
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Red Sox. You know, when they got home and I
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: got a phone call walking on the streets to Toronto
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: from you know, the Mariners asking me of my interest
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: level and interviewing for the job. You know, credit to
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Sam Kennedy of the Red Sox, who you know, really spoke.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: He helped me kind of go from what might have been,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: you know, a tainted moment when an executive decides to
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: walk away to you know, just a few weeks later
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: winding up in an interview process that ultimately led to
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: another job. And you know, Sam was very helpful to me,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: and and I'll never forget his kindness in that moment
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: because I needed it. And you know, I got here
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: to Seattle and immediately felt that same way I felt
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: in eight where this is there's something about this organization,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: this city that just kind of made me feel at home.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: It also was was helpful to feel like I had
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: the full backing of ownership, upper management. You know, you
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: tell us what it is we need to do to
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: get from here to there, which was not always the
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: order of events, as you know, and in some in
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: some stops, and you know, I think when when I
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: felt that vibe during the interview, you know, and I
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: was able to ask those questions like you know, what
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: decisions are mine to make? And and what are are
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: are you know, where are the sacred cows? And you
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: know I was told there aren't. They're your decisions to
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: make and and this is at that time and this
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: will this will sound like h like it's almost too
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: good to be true. You know, we had we were
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: coming off of a seventy eight win season. We had
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Lloyd McClendon was our manager. He was he was booked
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: for another year, so what would have been twenty sixteen.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: We had an organization that was fully you know, we
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: were staffed, We had a direct or, a leader in
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: every area.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: We had.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: I would say, what at the time was an exceptionally
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: high number of heads in the Baseball Operations department, and
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: I was I was told redo it in the way
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: you would envision it. The only thing that we would
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: ask is that you please give real consideration to the
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: people who have been here. And we did all those things, uh,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: you know, very quickly determined before season's end that that,
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: you know, I thought it best to move on from Lloyd.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: And that was mostly I don't want to throw any
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: shade at Lloyd. That was mostly believing that Scott's service
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: was what the Mariners needed. You know, as you know,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: having worked all the years that you worked with Scott,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: you know, exceptional in his ability to create create discipline
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: environments where there is a focus on an outcome. And
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: you know, I think at that time we had a
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: veteran team, a lot of players who were in their
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: you know, early thirties, who were probably closer to the
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: end of their careers in the beginning. But we're still
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: super productive. But we needed to change the way we behaved,
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: the way we practiced, the way we showed up our
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: attention to the detail. And and I just I knew Scott,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: And my thought in that moment was, I don't have
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: time to figure out you know what when I when
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I got to Anaheim, I had the benefit of being
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: able to start from scratch, with the exception being that
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: all of our major league staff remained the same.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: And when I got to Seattle, I could start from
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: scratch entirely. And you know, in this instance, we started
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: from scratch on the major league staff with the major
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: league manager, within our front office operation and player development,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: and we we rolled forward with scouting as it was.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: And you know, maybe it's hubris. I felt like I
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: I could I could teach the scouts to see the
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: world through my eyes and and can you scout for this?
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: And you know, and and then just be consistent with
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: the you know, the the programming and then you know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: a major league and player development side, I was fortunate
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: enough to get with Scott with Andy McKay. A year
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: later after a moratorium was through and Anaheim, Justin came
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: over from from the Angels, you know, and and our
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: band was was kind of back together, and but everybody
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: with different jobs, you know, and so our lead singer
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: became the bassist and the bassist started playing the drums,
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: and and Andy McKay to me, of everything that we've
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: done in that in the time since I got to Seattle,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Justin is still here with me obviously as our GM.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: But Andy was.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: So transformational in in what we were able to do
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: in setting up systems and programs and from play development
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: to the big leagues. We developed, you know, a consistent
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: approach and a focus. We were in fact able to create,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: you know, an ideal what we're looking to scout for.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: And I'm proud to say that that almost everybody on
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the scouting leadership team, from our scouting director Scott Hunter,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: who was then an international cross checker for US, or
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: the entirety of our crosscheck group, they're all still here.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And you know, we we went from having you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: I don't think I'm gonna throw anybody under the bus
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: here we had a number, you know, maybe two decades
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: of you know, suboptimal drafts where we hit on an
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: occasional player, but generally speaking, especially in the early two thousands,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: you know, it wasn't great. A lot of the people
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: that were in the in position then are still in
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: position today and they just but they rallied around, you know,
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: an ideal like what what are we trying to create?
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: What does a Mariner player look like? And how do
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: we find them? And some people who've been here twenty
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: twenty five years are still doing those jobs. And I
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: think our results in the draft in the last handful
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: of years have been pretty good.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: You know, Jerry.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: One thing that ties some of the conversation together is
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: it didn't dawn on me until you set it. But
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you were an interim GM, you are a GM, and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: now you're a GM a second time over. But Scott
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Servis was the first manager you actually got a chance
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: to hire, which is pretty unique that you had gone
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: that far into your GMing career with inherited managers or
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: situations that were kind of set up for you rather
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: than you getting to participate. And it doesn't as you said,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: there's no indictment of Lloyd and McClendon. It's just simply
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: when you're in these roles, having a really unencumbered partnership
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: with your manager is really ideal to future success. These
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: jobs are so exceptionally difficult. If you don't have that,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: it really doesn't always work. So it's not a reflection
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: of the fact that that person is doing anything improper.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: It just may not be the exact partner you need
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: at that moment in your career. So, Jerry, what one
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: thing that I think you're relatively known for in baseball
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: is that you have a sweet tooth for making trades.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I have done some research on this front, and you're
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: not alone, but you're one of the guys who have
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: made a trade with all twenty nine clubs. I asked
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: old chat GPT how many trades you've made in your career.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: It said the ticker stopped at one ninety and it
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: hadn't clicked over. But my guess is the number maybe
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: even higher than that. But I don't want to talk
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: to you about the trades you did make. I want
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: to ask you this question because I think there could
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: be a coffee table book where all of us confess
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: to the trade that we didn't make that. We were
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: very upset that we didn't make, but if we had made,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: would have been very detrimental to the franchise for which
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: we worked. Do you remember such a trade?
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Do I remember such a trade? I probably remember about
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: fifty of them, you know, if I'm being honest on
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: the good and the bad side, like the O we
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: should have done that, we shouldn't do this.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I can remember about a two year stretch where I
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: think I offered you almost anything that that that you
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: could possibly dream of and return for Edward, Julianne and UH.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: And you dreamed of many things that Ryan with other
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: things and.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: That that turned out to be grossly inappropriate, unbeknownst to
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: us at the time, but now time would tell us that.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: But I think the you know, it's the deals that
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: you look back on and say, oh, if I would
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: have you know, I think the deal that we made
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: in in Arizona at the trade deadline when I first
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: became the interim UH general manager. The first deal that
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: we made was trading Dan Herron to the Angels, you know,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: where I later reaped the benefits of. It was all
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: a long game plan, right, I was trading Dan there
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and then ultimately.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Getting back and inheriting him.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: But h we traded Dan for a package of four players,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: you know, and and two of the four became Top
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: hundred prospects.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Sadly, Tyler Skaggs wasn't able to fulfill what I think
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: was still sky high potential.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Uh was untimely, very early death.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Patrick Corbyn, who became an All Star for the Diamondbacks,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: and Joe Saunders who gobbled up innings for two years
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: while the young guys contributed, you know, or grew and
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: you know, he contributed two hundred ditch innings to a
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: divisional champion. And I remember making that first trade, and
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: you know, let's just say that the talking heads were
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: not very impressed with it. And you know, we had
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: vetted through, we made it early. You know, it was
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: a week before the final gun, which by itself, you know,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: tells most in the industry that you acted too soon
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: based on what we know are you know, behaviors in
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: the industry. And I'll talk in a minute about why
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: I think that's significant. But the talking heads were not
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: impressed with the return, and uh, you know, and and
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: I had to wear it a little bit, and that
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: was really the first time in my non playing life
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: that I was exposed to a lot of you know,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: the the stuff that flies around when you do something
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: that's unpopular. And and I remember Ken Kendrick, you know,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: calling me, and you know that the local radio was
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: not impressed with what we were doing. And you know,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Ken called me and he said, you know, I am
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: not happy. I am not happy. We've got the same
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: people making the same types of decisions. I don't like
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: this move. But to Ken's credit, when when he brought
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: me on as the introim general manager, he said, no
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: one knows our personnel better than you. We need to reset.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: You know, you've got the keys to the car. Do
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: what you need to do. And and he didn't tell
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: me no on anything that that we were you know,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: we ultimately decided to do. But he was a little
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: rattled after the Dan hair and trade and you know,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: and then a couple of days later, we made a
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: trade with the White Sox where we sent them Edwin
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Jackson in return for in return for Daniel Hudson and
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: a left hand pitching prospect named David Holmberg. And that
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: one was wildly celebrated. So you know, Ken called again,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: and he said, he said, I'm very happy with the
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: way that the trade deadline went, you know, And I said, Ken,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: somewhere in there, I'm somewhere between the idiot that made
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: the first trade and the genius who made the second.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: I just hope I lent closer to the line on
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: the first one, you know. And and along the way,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: all the different trades that you make or don't make,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: the signings that you make or don't make. I think
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: there are so many players that that you could look
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: back and say, hey, you remember the deal we were
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: talking about.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: With so and so.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: But I'm going to bring you back to where this
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: conversation roughly began at Chase state him in nineteen seventy five,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: watching Catfish Hunter and Hank Aaron, really not remembering watching them,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: but now knowing that that was my first game as
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: a big leaguer. Those are kind of the stories that
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: happened to you. When you do these jobs for long enough,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: you think you were closer to a trade than you
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: actually were. You think that you were being offered a
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: player that you may or may not have been offered.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: You know, there's there's always some type of that little
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: you know, a quirk. I would say, if I had
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: one trade that I would love to go back and
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: do over again, it is. It is the deal in
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: which we sent Pablo Lopez to the Marlins. Pablo was
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: not having a very impressive year in the Cal League.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: We did not have, you know, much in the way
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: of a deep farm system. The only way we were
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: going to improve was to like volume our way through
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: some trades to piece it together and.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: You know, an ultimate le.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Ultimately we wound up piecing it together with four players,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: one of whom turned out to be what would have
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: been the best acquisition we could make for the better
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: part of the next ten years. So I regret that one,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: and there are others that I certainly regret. In there,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I would tell you that there is a certain six
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: plus win player who plays shortstop in the National League West,
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: who who we had an opportunity to acquire along the way,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: and you know, instead opted to hold and not make
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: the deal at all. And you know, now I can
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: look back on that one and say, well, that's thanks,
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: bad move. So it's it is. You know, the game
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: teaches you lessons and it teaches you not to I've
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: said this before the very first phone call I got
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: with any advice in that summer at twenty ten when
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: I took the interim job, was from Billy Bean, and
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Billy said, I'm just gonna give you some advice. Shoot
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: your shot, do what you're gonna do. Don't worry about
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: the blowback, don't worry about what people think, and don't
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: track the result. Just keep your head down and move forward.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: If you look back, you'll drive yourself crazy. And in
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: the years since, I've never forgotten that, and I've always
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: remembered or equated it to it's the same thing as
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: being a relief pitcher. You know, you're I if I've
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: thrown thousands of sliders in my life, and I'm gonna
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: remember this the one I hum far more often than
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna remember the ones that.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Missed the bat.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: And you know, if I focus on all of the hangers,
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I'll never go back and remember fondly the years that
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: I was able to pitch in the big leagues. I'll
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: think about all the hangers. And the same is true
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: of the trades, which coincidentally, I was informed by Cesspatas
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: Barbecue very recently there were in one ninety nine, So
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: the next one has to be something momentous. It's probably
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: gonna be like a marginal roster upgrade somewhere along the
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: way or you know, but they've been religiously counting them
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: for purposes of Internet tracking, and this flies in the face.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: One of the things that I told the Mariners when
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: I interviewed here in that September of fifteen, I sat
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: in the final interview with our now chairman and owner
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: John Stanton, another member of our ownership group, Jeff Raikes,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: and you know, and they asked me what my thought
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: was for the short and long term of this roster,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: and I said, you know, I think in the short term,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: a couple of turns of the screw and this team
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: could be you know, competitive now and probably looking at
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: a two or three year window of trying to build
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: up the floor to stay competitive by making a few changes,
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: you know, and then I think you're just going to
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: have to rebuild the roster and start again. And that
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: was in September of fifteen. That off season, I think
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: we made forty trades and I'm not exaggerating. And at
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: one point, at one point Jeff Rick said to me
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: at a function, he said, I.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Thought you said it was a turn of a screw,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I have fast wrists.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: You know well, Jerry, I mean this is something you
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: taught me. This is something that Josh Burns taught me,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: which is, you have two approaches to these jobs. You
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: can either try to survive to tomorrow because these jobs
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: are so coveted, or you can try to thrive on
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: behalf of the organization. And if you try to thrive,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: you're eventually going to make so many decisions that maybe
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: one or two won't go your way. But that the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: error is to stop making the decisions. You should learn
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: from every single one of them. And I obviously try
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: to fail forward if you can. But I think the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: owners should be worried when we stop making decisions and
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: we prioritize maintaining our jobs, because indecision is much more
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: difficult for a cessmentous barbecue to judge than activity is.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: So I give you credit for continuing to plod forth
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: and trying to better the organization. The reality is the
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: other side also has great information. And so as much
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: as my attitude always about trades was I actually hope
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: both sides win, I just hope we win slightly more
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: than the other side. It used to be simpler because
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: usually the buyers were trading with the sellers, so I
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: could win today and you could win tomorrow. Now, the
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: way the game is played in terms of trades, more
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: often than not you're trading with somebody who's also trying
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to win today, and so therefore it's a little bit
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: more challenging, I think, for both sides to win at
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: the same time. But I remember distinctly it was after
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: twenty ten. We had gone to the World Series of
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: the Texas Rangers. We were trying to improve. We were
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: dead set on trying to resign Cliff Lee, who we
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: had acquired. That trade deadline from Seattle was an epic
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: trade story in its own rate for another episode, but
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: we ultimately fell short of that. And I don't want
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: to portray this in any negative light, but Plan B
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: was to go after Adrian Beltray. Well, Adrian Beltra I
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: think from that day forward accumulated over forty one more
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: for the Texas Rangers and walks into the Hall of Fame.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: No chance we would have been the French as we
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: were for the next five seasons without Adrian Beltray. So
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: sometimes those decisions we make that are devastating in the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: moment when we don't get what Plan A was. I
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: think the art form is always making sure Plan B
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: becomes tomorrow's Plan A. You can't just sit with one plan.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't simply work that way.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Jerry, I want to.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Walk you through one of the trades you made, which
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I just picked out one it seemed to me to
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: be a real turn for the franchise, and that was
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: when you guys acquired Luis Castillo in twenty twenty two.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: It was an extremely bold move, you know, on both
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: sides of the coin. But one was for Nick Crawl
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to trade what was one of the better starting pitchers
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: in the game, certainly on the market at that time.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: But you, if memory serves, also traded four prospects of
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the time I believe, all of whom were pretty ballyhooed.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: A few were considered top prospects in the game. What
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: went into that trade and how did you decide to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: that moment, because also, if memory serves, you guys were
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: not exactly in contention at that point. You were eleven
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: games back of the Houston Astros. You were in a
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: wild card position, but you were not in division position.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Why was that the time to push as many chips
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: in as you did.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: You and and it was you know, the first two
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: players in that return for the Reds. I think we're
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: both you know, top fifty ish prospects in the game.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: And Noelie Marte was I believe a consensus top fifteen
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: you know prospect in the game.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: You know we had.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: This is more Mariners history I for for so many years,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I would constantly preach to our people, you know, don't
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: get caught up in what's happened since nineteen seventy seven,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: don't take responsibility for what's happened since two thousand and two.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: You know, there's we can only control what we do
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: now and what we do moving forward. We don't have
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: the ability to go back and wipe away, you know,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: fifty or twenty five years of history. Well, when we
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: got to the trade deadline in twenty twenty two, you know,
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: we were we had come out of our rebuild, maybe
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: a year earlier than we were expecting to. We had
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: an unexpected and probably unsustainable, you know, degree of success
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, where I think a combination of
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: unbelievable late game heroics, some kind of crazy success in
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: one run games, and you know, and a lot of
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: luck went into winning ninety games and falling short of
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: the postseason. And you know, then going into twenty two
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: or in that off season between twenty one and two,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: we signed the raining American League Sy Young Award winner
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: Robbie Ray as a free agent, and we had made
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: some inroads toward like beefing up our roster. We are
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: actually getting better. Now, let's you know, let's push in
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: a little. And at the deadline in twenty two, we
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: were hovering right around that wild card and you know,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: that meant so much more to the Mariners then it
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: probably did to twenty nine other teams, simply because we
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: were holding on to the longest you know, dry spell
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: in terms of teams that had not been to the postseason.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: We felt like we were sitting on one of and
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I think what ultimately became, you know, regarded as the
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: top farm system in baseball. We felt like we could
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: move some of our prospect you know, I guess some
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: of our prospects in order to beef up our chances today.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: And in Louis's case, you know, you weren't just getting
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: two and a half months of a playoff run. You
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: were getting the next year as well. And as you
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: are aware, when you go through these things, a lot
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: of it is you're doing recon in the background, and
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: you know, we at least had some reason to believe
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: that there was there would be a pretty good chance
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: that we could get a deal done if we wanted
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: to do an extension. And so when we made the deal,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: we knew it would minimally be for a year in
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: two and a half months, and on the low end,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: if it didn't work the trade deadline in twenty twenty three,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: he was going to be just as valuable to the
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: next team, and or we could hold him, get a
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: draft pick and make a run for the next two years.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, the Rock was a consensus top
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: ten starter in MLB at that time and pretty highly coveted,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: so we felt like it was a safe move. And
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: then lo and behold, he got here. He made two starts,
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: he loved it, signed an extension, and he stayed. But
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: we were, I guess, over zealous and in what we
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: you know, were willing to give up. And I would
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: say at the same time, in the background, and this
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: is just true, you're always running plan b's, Plan c's
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: you know, as as these things go. And at a
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: certain point we were in we were pretty deep in
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: conversation with with the a's at the time about Frankie Montas,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: who was in a very similar situation, a one plus
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: control and guy was equally as as as dominant in
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: that moment as as Luis Castillo. And these are the
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: sliding doors moments, you know. And ultimately, and I believe
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: this had more to do with the fact that Oakland,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: you know, than Oakland was still in our division. The
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: premium that they were asking us for in return for
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Frankie Montas, we felt like was you know, over the top.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: And you know, when I first called Nick Crawl on
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: Luis Castillo this this is maybe you know, early June,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: late May, early June of that year, when you first
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: start making your your you know around.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: The league calls.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Ah, it was, yeah, we would consider moving them, not
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: dying to move them. But we get to the end
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: of June and now they're in a different situation. We
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: do have premium prospects to trade. And the first ass
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: that Nick made was it was nine and you know,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: and I said all nine of them, and and uh,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: you know, he laughed, and he said, I told you
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: how to be bold. We don't have to move them,
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: and and we were able to negotiate it down and
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: and uh, and I think the reason why we opted
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: to move toward Louis Castillo was simply because we thought
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: the the acquisition costs for Frankie Montas was was even
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: more off putting. And you know, and then you wake
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: up a year later and realize the difference in the
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: next you know, twelve months of the careers of Louis
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Castillo and Frankie Montas. Those are the sliding doors where
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: it's sometimes you know, it's it's better to be lucky
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: than good. Because we had Louis as our as our
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: primary target. And as you as as modern day front
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: offices go, you know, it's all the the ROI is
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: going to drive so much of what you do. And well,
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Frankie Montas might have been number two on our list,
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: there's a price point where that might make more sense
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: for you. And fortunately in this case, we were able
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: to go out and get our top target. We gave
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: up real talent to get them, and it changed our
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: arc and it immediately made us, you know, it gave
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: us validity, not just in the public spectrum, but in
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: our clubhouse, you know, our players at the time saw
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: it as a huge step forward. This it's on now,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: we're ready to go win. Ultimately we did, and Louis
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: started the first two games of the next of two
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: playoff series that year, and one we we won and
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: the other we did not. But and he's been on
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: truly a rock for us ever since. And uh has
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: I would say it's it's probably not quite on the
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Adrian Beltra level, but it's it's been transformative for us,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: you know, in the time since we acquire for sure
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: well in jury.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not like you were right about him
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and wrong about Frankie montas everybody in the game thought
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: those two guys were transcending talents and we're going to
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: be aces for years to come. As you said, sometimes
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: for needs to shine, we have to get a little
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: bit lucky because we can't predict health in all these situations.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: And you know you also talked about it earlier. This
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: also coincided with when your player development system in your
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: amateur scouting was really shining as you start surrounding him
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: with guys like Wu and Miller and Gilbert and Kirby
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: it's just an exceptional staff you built. Welcome back to
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Roster Ster Rings. What a tremendous conversation with Jerry. So
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: appreciative to him for his time, as energy and his passion.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: We're now shifting our attention to listener questions. The Grand
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Puba of Producers is joining us Jason to ask us
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: a few questions from our listeners.
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: All right, So, first off, I got Davy from Queen's
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: and I'm pretty sure you probably know where this is going.
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: Matt's twelve game skid, you know, second in ay roll,
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: you know, all this stuff starts piling on. What do
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: you do as a GM in this situation that when
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: you know the everything's piling on you from a media
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: perspective and you blow yet another game in the nine dating?
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the fans see the losses and that's
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: not lost on the front office, but they see so
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: much more behind this. And we try to preach when
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: we're in these leadership roles of we're focused on the
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: process over the results, except for when the results are extreme.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: And on the extremes, sometimes when you're winning a lot,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: you become a little bit complacent. You actually think you
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: have it figured out for a minute. You feel like
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: you're entitled to win every night's game. That can be
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: dangerous in and of itself. But the example you're talking
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: about right now is the other end of this extreme,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: which feels like everything that could go wrong is going wrong.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: So I think the responsibility of the front office here
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: is across a lot of platforms. One is to understand
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: how bad is the team right now? There's underlying numbers
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: that the front office with the Mets are looking at,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I assure you right now to try to parse out
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: how much of this was bad luck and how much
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of this is bad performance. Effectively, is this a bad
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: sign or is this a bad stretch? When they went
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: into the season, as you reference, with one of the
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: top payrolls in the game, there was a mandate to win,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and they unequivocally thought they were going to compete for
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: the National League East title, if not a deep run
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: into the playoffs. The reality, though, is that there was
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: a pretty wholesale change to this team's roster this offseason.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: A lot of the leadership change, a lot of the
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: faces in the clubhouse change. Similarly, a lot of the
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: coaches on Carlos Mendoz's staff, changed. So I think there's
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: a window within which, as a front office executive you're
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: thinking is just part of the growing pains as we
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: get acclimated to one another. The other thing you have
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: to look at is Juan Soto, who is their best player,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: has been out for quite some time. He's returning very soon,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and so you really don't want to evaluate or over evaluate,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: should I say, team, when the best player isn't out
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: there to perform. Now, the mark of a championship caliber
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: team is that even when they are missing their best player,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you're able to excel. I'm thinking of Garrett Cole who's
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: been missing and with the Yankees, and the Yankees seem
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: to be doing quite well. The Milwaukee Brewers have been
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: without Christian Yellich and Jackson Curio for quite some time
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: and are doing quite well. So it's not that they
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: get a Hall pass for want so and not being there,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: but is a factor you should consider. So I'm sure
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: David Stearns and his group is looking at the underlying
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: information to understand is this something that we should be
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: concerned about long term or is this just a bad streak.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: But Jason, I can tell you unequivocally What's going on
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: there in that clubhouse right now is this dread, this
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: sense of like, here we go again, and so they
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: feel as if they're trying to every night, they're trying
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: to not lose that night's game rather than to win.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: You've got to shift the mindset back to we have
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of talent in this room. We are capable
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: of winning if we have some adversity in this game,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: which every game presents. It's not a here we go
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: again mentality. We have the talent here to win, and
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: let's go out and get this thing done.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Always that New York market as well.
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's twelve games, you know, it's you know,
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: still relatively I think, a small sample size in the
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: grand scheme of things, but you know, New York media, you.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Know, Jason. One more thing just to highlight here is
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Steve Cohen gave a you know, kind of an impromptu
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: press conference in the dugout the other day. I think
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: when you see ownership start stepping up and having this conversation,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: it is an indication to the fans that the spotlight
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: is a little bit more on them right now. I
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: also would just like to reference Dave Dombrowski I guess
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: was asked in a recent press conference about the security
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: of Rob Thompson, his manager, as they've lost seven games
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: in a row. So once you start seeing these comments
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: made more publicly, these questions being forced to be addressed,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: and as the game closed out last night and the
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Mets unfortunately lost their twelfth in row, you hear the
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: boo birds there. Owners start becoming a little bit more
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: responsive emotionally. When the fans who were paying money to
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: see the product start doing so, you may start seeing
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: some action if the team doesn't turn it around, and
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: turn it around relatively quickly.
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: Fair enough that thank you. Let's shift a little bit
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: to something like off the field and not so much
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: on the field as we just discussed, you know recently.
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: You know, we've all seen these headlines around the you know,
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: Russini Vrabels story and what's going on. We're not going
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: to go into that, but what I am going to
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: ask about, and what Sarah from Seattle wants to know about,
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: is what type of role does the GM play in
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: that and how do how would someone like yourself like
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: look at something like that and what would you do?
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I can assure you when you had these visions
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: of what it means to be a general manager or
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: sports franchise. It's never dealing with problems like this. The reality, though, is,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: as you kind of ascend the ranks and you assume
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: a leadership role with an organization, when these things transpire,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: things that really eat at the integrity of a franchise,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: the brand identity of the franchise, you are brought in
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: to weigh in because as a leader of that organization,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you have a bigger responsibility to the overall appearance of
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: the franchise and how it's perceived by its fans. And
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: so I think fundamentally you are dragged into these conversations,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: whether you like it or not. You'd much prefer to
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: be talking about how do we build out a roster
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: that has a chance to compete for a in this
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: case a Super Bowl, or prepare for the draft which
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: is upcoming here tomorrow. But instead you're dealing with these
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: types of things. So at some competitive level, every other
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: team that is competing with this team in this instance
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: is loving this because their senior leadership is being drawn
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: away from building championship rosters and being drawn into these
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: types of conversations. Now separately, I'd also like to share
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: that the teams I have worked for they have what
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: is called a crisis management team for this exact type
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: of situation, and usually what that group is comprised of
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: is a sampling of the senior leadership of the organization.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the general manager sits in that group, but it's
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: also potentially people outside of the organization, somebody who is
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: who is more capable and experienced in dealing with crisis management,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: somebody from a public relations perspective. Also, it may be
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: somebody if there's a parent company, it's somebody from the
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: parent company who has a a little bit more of
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: an objective view, but a greater eye towards the betterment
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: of the brand name than necessarily the leaders who are
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: working for that organization. So I think two things are
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: happening at the same time. The leadership of the franchise,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: who will remain nameless in this case, but the leadership
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: of that franchise will be drawn in and drawn away
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: from their daily jobs and responsibilities to deal with this.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: And also, most likely a crisis management team comprised of
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: some of those same people and people external to the
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: building who are more expert in handling this are now
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: being employed to try to damage control or at least
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: turn this thing around so it doesn't really eat at
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: the fabric of the integrity of the organization.
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: Insightful wisdom, Thad. I always love your outlook on things.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: You know, take advantage of a bad thing and make
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: it an opportunity for yourself, So you know what I mean.
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: That's what I think all good leaders try to look
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: for that recent Padres sale three point nine billion, you know,
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: way over what anybody expected.
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: Tony Kay wants to know, you know, based on this
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: and where we see like the Braves is the only
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: publicly traded company jumping four percent, are we going to
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: see a fire sale going on in MLB baseball? And
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: do you expect teams to jump on this bandwagon and
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: owners to cash in?
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: So I think this is a fascinating development in the
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: game of baseball. To answer the exact question you asked,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I think there would be a number of owners who
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: would love to sell in the high three billion dollar
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: valuation range. But I think what we've seen recently between
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: the Minnesota Twins coming out to market, the Washington Nationals
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: and Anaheim Angels, and none of those three teams selling
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: is that not all teams are finding as favorable a
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: buyer as the San Diego Padres have. So I think
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: another thing that is going on behind the scenes is
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Rob Manford, who is the Commissioner of Baseball, is very
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: attentive to the aspiration that each of these franchises sells
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: for more than what the previous one did, to demonstrate
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: that there's this continuant upswing of the valuations of his markets.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: So I actually think it's going to be a little
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: bit problematic when they do finalize this deal because those
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: franchises in Minnesota, Washington, and Anaheim who may be dabbling
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: with being on the market have not demonstrated the ability
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: to reach these heights that San Diego just did, So
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I think it cuts both ways. There'll be a lot
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: of owners who would welcome a chance to sell in
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: the high three billions. I'm not sure that these markets
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: support that in other places, which may become a little
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: bit problematic for Major League Baseball to have the next
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: franchise sell for a fraction of what the San Diego
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: padres ultimately. So for the other element I think worth
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: noting here, Jason, is just the fact that oftentimes we
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: wonder how to value the impact of a general manager.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: And no one has been more scrutinized over the last
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: eight years than Aj Preller has been. As he has
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: bought and sold, he has torn down the franchise and
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: built it back up. He has built up one of
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: the best farm systems in the game and then decimated
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: that farm system by trading everyone away. No one has
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: made more transactions than Aj Preller. Interestingly, our guests today,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Jerry Depoto is probably the one guy who rivals him.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: But so here we are sitting with the ability to
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: sell a franchise for three point nine billion, and I'm
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: not certainly putting that all at AJ's feet and say
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: he's the one who's done it. But part of the
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: reason that the San Diego Padres are going to garner
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: something in the high three billion relative to Washington, Minnesota
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: and Anaheim who've tried to sell recently, is they're selling
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: out these games. And now they're the only sports team
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: in town. With the Chargers leaving to go to Los Angeles,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: it's the last sports team in town. They are a
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: very healthy franchise right now in terms of winning on
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: the field. Their payroll may be a little bit bloated,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and they're going to have some challenges on the horizon
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: when some of those aging veterans are still on the
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: payroll making a lot of money. But for the time being,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: they've demonstrated ability to go toe to toe with the
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: vaunted Dodgers, and fans are coming out from all over
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: the place to support that team as a loan standing
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: team in San Diego, and I think as a result,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: you're seeing a meaningful spike in the evaluation of that franchise.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: That has something to do, not exclusively, but something to
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: do with the work that aj Preller has done to
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: build out a roster that is so compelling that as
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: other teams are leaving town, they're selling out games night
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: after night.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: That very insightful, and you are correct, only game in
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: town matters. You know, maybe just a couple more months
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: of podcast revenue here and we'll be able to, you know,
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: put our offer down on one of the MLB teams,
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: So we'll be looking forward to that.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: It's one thing to be the only team in town.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: It's another thing to be the only team and be compelling.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: He's doing both and that's pretty impressive right now.
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: Thanks that appreciate you man.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Of course, and thanks to all the listeners for joining
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: us on Rosters to rings. Please join us every Thursday
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: on Rosters Tourings.