Latest / Startup Stories with Fexingo: Conversations About Founders, Funding, and Building Companies from Zero / How Notion Conquered the Note-Taking App Market
Transcript
- Lucas: So, Luna, you remember when we tried to plan our podcast calendar last year and ended up with a spreadsheet that looked like abstract art? Luna: Oh, don't remind me. We spent a whole afternoon just trying to make the columns line up. Lucas: Exactly. And then we switched to Notion and suddenly it all clicked. Which is kind of ironic, because Notion's origin story is basically the opposite of smooth planning. Luna: Yeah, I've heard it was a mess early on. What actually happened? Lucas: So you've got Ivan Zhao, who co-founded the company in 2013. He was coming from a failed game studio — actually, he'd dropped out of college to build that. And the original vision for Notion was this all-in-one workspace, but the first version was built on a custom engine that was just too slow and buggy. Luna: I remember reading that they almost ran out of money. They had like three users at one point, right? Lucas: Worse than that. At its lowest, they were down to something like two or three paying customers, and they were burning through their seed round. Ivan actually had to lay off most of the team — he and one engineer, Simon Last, basically rewrote the whole thing from scratch over a year. Luna: That's crazy. So how did they go from that to the juggernaut we know today? Lucas: Part of it was a total rebuild. They ditched the custom engine and used web technologies that were already proven — JavaScript, React, stuff like that. That let them iterate faster. And then they started to focus on what became the core innovation: the block-based editor. Luna: Right, the whole 'everything is a block' thing. But that sounds kind of nerdy. Why was it such a big deal? Lucas: Because it meant you could mix text, tables, images, databases — all on one page, without needing to switch tools. You could turn a simple bullet list into a kanban board in a click. That flexibility is what made Notion feel like a blank canvas, and it's hard to replicate that in a word processor or a wiki. Luna: Okay, so the product improved. But plenty of good products fail. What was the turning point for growth? Lucas: The turning point was the template gallery. Notion didn't just hand users a blank page — they encouraged people to share their own setups, whether it was a fitness tracker, a startup's OKR dashboard, or a wedding planning hub. That created a community of creators who made templates for every possible use case. Luna: And those creators became evangelists, right? Like, I see YouTubers selling Notion templates all the time. Lucas: Exactly. It's a classic community-led growth loop. The users do the marketing for you. Notion didn't spend heavily on ads; they just built a platform where users could publish and even sell their templates. That made it valuable not just for end users but for a whole economy of creators. Luna: But they also had that famous waitlist strategy. Wasn't that a deliberate move? Lucas: Yeah, they had this invite-only beta for a long time. It created scarcity and made people feel like they were getting access to something exclusive. When they finally opened it up, thousands of people were already primed to try it. That was a huge launch moment. Luna: It's interesting because that's the opposite of what most startups do these days — they want everyone in as fast as possible. Lucas: Exactly. But it built anticipation and helped them manage server load. And it filtered for early adopters who were actually engaged, not just curious clickers. That gave them a really solid base to build on. Luna: So what's the moat here? Any competitor could copy the blocks and templates, but Notion still leads. Why? Lucas: I think it's the network effect. The more templates and integrations people build, the more valuable the platform becomes. Plus, Notion has been careful about pacing their roadmap — they don't add features just to chase trends. They take their time to get things right, which builds trust. Luna: But they also raised a huge round at a high valuation. I think it was a $10 billion valuation in 2021, right? Lucas: Yeah, that was a big moment. But what's interesting is that they've stayed private and still operate pretty lean. They don't need to justify themselves to public markets every quarter, which gives them the freedom to keep being deliberate. Luna: And now with AI, everyone's worried about disruption. Is Notion doing anything about that? Lucas: They've actually leaned in. They launched Notion AI, which can help summarize notes, generate ideas, even write drafts. It's not just a bolt-on — it's integrated into the editor itself. That keeps them relevant because the core value proposition is still about capturing and organizing information, and AI just makes that faster. Luna: So what's the lesson for other founders? Is it just 'build a flexible product and hope for the best'? Lucas: Not exactly. The lesson is more about patience and focus. Notion didn't try to be everything at once. They built a solid foundation, then let the community shape the use cases. They also weren't afraid to start over when their original approach wasn't working. That's a tough decision to make. Luna: And they didn't take the traditional VC path to rapid scale. They bootstrapped for a while, then raised strategically. Lucas: Right, and that ties into something we've talked about on this show before — the idea that you don't always need to be in a constant fundraising sprint. Notion's journey shows that listening to your users and building a lasting platform can be just as valuable as hitting growth milestones super fast. Luna: Speaking of listening to users, one thing I love about Notion is how they use their own product for customer feedback. Like, they have a public roadmap and community forums where people can vote on features. Lucas: That's a great point. It's a very transparent approach. And it creates a sense of ownership among users. When a feature you requested gets shipped, you feel like you're part of the story. That's powerful. Luna: But it also means they have to manage expectations. Not every request can be fulfilled, and some users get frustrated. Lucas: True, but I think the openness outweighs the downsides. It's a lot better than a black box where users wonder if anyone's listening. And it's one of the reasons Notion has such a loyal following. Luna: So, Lucas, if listeners walk away from this episode with one takeaway, what should it be? Lucas: I'd say it's that a great product isn't just about features — it's about creating a platform where your users can build their own workflows and feel invested. Notion did that by being flexible, community-driven, and patient. That's a formula that's hard to beat. Luna: And it's a reminder that sometimes the best thing you can do is take your time, even when everyone else is rushing. Lucas: Well said. And on that note, let me just say — if you're enjoying these deep dives into startup stories, and you've found yourself taking notes or sharing an episode with a colleague, that's exactly the kind of impact we're going for. This show is ad-free, and the only way we keep it that way is through listener support. If you'd like to help, you can buy me a coffee at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. That's f-e-x-i-n-g-o. Every bit helps, and it keeps these conversations coming. Luna: Yeah, we really appreciate the support. It lets us spend the time researching and scripting these stories properly. Lucas: Anyway, back to Notion — there's one more thing I think is worth mentioning. Their approach to hiring has been just as unconventional as their product. They famously had a 'no assholes' policy in their job postings, which sets a tone for the culture. Luna: Really? That's bold. I guess it filters out a lot of people right off the bat. Lucas: It does. And it's consistent with their brand — they want thoughtful, collaborative people. That kind of intentionality extends to everything they do, from design to community management. It's a good reminder that a company's culture is built through small, visible choices. Luna: So Notion is not just a productivity tool; it's a case study in building a sustainable, community-driven business. Lucas: Absolutely. And I think as we look at the next wave of productivity tools, especially with AI, Notion will remain a benchmark. The question is whether they can keep that balance of flexibility and simplicity as they scale. That's something we'll be watching. Luna: Well, I know I'm going to open Notion right after this and clean up my mess of a dashboard. Lucas: Ha, good luck with that. Maybe we'll do a follow-up episode on how to actually organize your life with Notion. Luna: That could be a fun one. For now, thanks for joining us on Startup Stories. Until next time.