Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Jammin' In July: A Deep Dive Into Grateful Dead July Concerts [Episode 202]

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Jammin' In July: A Deep Dive Into Grateful Dead July Concerts [Episode 202] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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Garcia once remarked about this right, that he would get frustrated that he didn't
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have a formula himself, right that a you know, had a drink of
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this and a puff on this, that he could somehow magically create the conditions
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that were right, and he couldn't do it. We're totally booked rock and
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roll. I mean gott to leave you. You're reading little hens this.
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It's time to rock and roll rot. I totally booked. Welcome back to
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Booked on Rock, the podcast for those about to read and rock. Find
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the podcast at booked on rock dot com. That's where you can find every
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episode of Booked on Rock, along with links to your favorite listening platforms,
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exclusive videos, blogs, links to all of the social media sites, and
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the latest rockbook releases. You can also watch every episode in full on video
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at booked on rock dot com or on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel at
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booked on Rock. And if you like what you see, be sure to
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click the like and subscribe buttons. That goes a long way to support the
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podcast. Author David Kaine is a first time guest. He is the author
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of the brand new book Infinite Dead, A Daily Guide to grateful Dead Concert
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Performances, Volume two, July. Infinite Dead is a groundbreaking guide to Grateful
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Dead concerts. Authoritative and entertaining. Volume two features detailed reviews of every Grateful
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Dead concert performed in the month of July, a total of one hundred and
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seventy concerts from nineteen sixty six to nineteen ninety five. It covers the band's
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first performances at Red Rocks, their nineteen eighty four revival of Dark Star at
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the Greek Theater in Berkeley, multiple performances with bout Dylan, as well as
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the eight concerts Patriotically played on July fourth to Here selected performances from the show,
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as we discussed in this episode, head over to the show notes page.
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David Kine, Welcome to the podcast. How are you doing well?
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Thanks for having me. Infinite Dead a daily guide to Grateful Dead concert performances,
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Volume two. This is July. There I volume cover the month of
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October that was released back in twenty twenty one. Before we get into the
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latest volume, can you talk about what inspired this project. I have some
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friends who I've kept in touch with about Grateful Dead related items for many years,
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and we had this ongoing email conversation. One time in the spring of
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twenty sixteen, I decided that all of us should be reminiscing about the Grateful
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Dead's May performances, and I sent them an email saying something like, guys,
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here's your May first and it was a list of the May first concerts,
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recordings of each and some anecdotes by me. And they enjoyed it.
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So I did May second, and third and four thirty straight days of this
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email, which triggered all kinds of discussions. And I continued to do that
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off and on through twenty sixteen and a little of twenty seventeen, and then
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decided, you know what, I am going to write, you know,
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quality review of every Grateful Dead concert and that's what really got things going.
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May is considered the best month. I know, May of seventy seven,
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may have seventy seven or may have seventy eight. That's considered like the month.
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There's a lot of great bootlegs that are out there that I have as
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well, Like Ithaca, I think is May of seventy seven, right,
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Yeah, So, in addition to it being a month filled with wonderful performances
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for us being college students in the Northeast late seventies, the dead used to
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come and tour, and so we have a lot of personal memories of seeing
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the dead in May, in addition to listening to all those great performances at
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the time. So I don't know when I saw it come up on the
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calendar, I thought we should be talking about it, and I started writing
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about it. I haven't really written that volume yet, but I'm looking forward
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to it yet. Yeah, that's the key word, right. There are
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some others I've actually written that haven't been published yet, but then there are
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a few months where I really need to go back to my notes and then,
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you know, craft a book out of it. But May is one
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of those that I'm really looking forward to doing someday. So that kind of
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answers my question, I think, because I was wondering the order of months,
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So you start with October now July. Is it just based on when
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you feel like you're prepared and you've got enough information together to come up with
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a full month's worth of reviews and putting all that together for a book.
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So when I started, I was just picking months at random. So in
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twenty seventeen, I did the month of April and then kept it in a
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Google drive and then said, let's do another month. And I wrote that
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one, and I wasn't thinking about publishing. The original idea was to write
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them all and put them into a gigantic book like the Penguin Jazz Guide fifteen
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hundred pages or something. And then I think it was in twenty twenty when
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one of my friends, one of the guys in the email trail, said
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to me, how's the book coming along? And I said, well,
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about half done. I should be done in a couple of years. And
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he said, you know, we're not getting any younger, hurry up,
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right, And I thought, so it was kind of funny, but it
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was also like, gee, you wouldn't want one of these guys to disappear
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on you and they wouldn't have a chance to read the book. And so
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I thought, what can I do? And the answer was pick a month
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and publish that. And so at that point I had to figure out how
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to do publishing. And I'd never published a book before and discovered from the
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publishers that they needed six months of lead time, and so I was exploring
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this in like January of twenty twenty one, and so the first possible month
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I could have done if I was ready to go. There was maybe August,
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right, they needs that six months, So I picked October to give
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myself some lead time. I had already done October, it just needed a
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lot of polishing. And that's how I picked October. And the same thing
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went into July. It was like pick a month and give the publisher six
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months lead time to actually put a book out. Yeah, that's Gatekeeper Press.
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They're the publisher on this one. Yes, there's a different publisher.
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For the first volume, they became twice as expensive, so this time around,
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I look for a different publisher and I've been working with these guys.
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It's not yet in the stores, just so everybody will know it's The target
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date was the last week of June. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We'll
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make it. That's next week. Yeah. I've been spending the last week
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or so doing a lot of proof reading, trying to figure out whether to
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capitalize the b and dead base those kinds of important things. But we're getting
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there. It's getting close, so yeah, we can keep people posted on
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that we can put There isn't a link on Amazon at this time, is
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there? Last time a chap. There wasn't no until it actually gets uploaded
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right into the store. At that point you can kind of in a sense,
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pre order it, and then it takes a bit of time. The
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official publication date is supposed to be July first, but yeah, it's We're
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very much pregnant at this point. Okay, Well, we can get to
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the details too, where people can reach you online and get updates on that.
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Sure, we did talk before we started recording that. Well, you're
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in the Bay Area now, but you went to college here on the East
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Coast, which is where I'm from here, So let's talk about when and
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how you became a Dead fan. What was your first show. I'm interested
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in that as well. First concert I went to was January seventy nine,
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Providence Civic Center in Rhode Island. We were in school in Boston, got
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in the car, went down to Providence, saw the concert. Unfortunately,
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that was the eighteenth. Unfortunately we should have gone to the next one on
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the twentieth, which I think was Long Island, and I'm pretty sure they
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did at least Saint Stephen and kind of missed out on that one. But
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that was the first one, and then went to a bunch more. In
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the spring of seventy nine, Bill Ricca Let's see some friends went to UMass
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I went up to Portland, Maine. Those were some of the concerts that
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were happening then, and then in the fall went to quite a few more.
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Can you talk about your approach when listening to these shows for the book?
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Because I find this interesting? What kind of things are you listening for?
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When it comes time to put your thoughts and observations in writing? Is
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it difficult to be to be an objective? Yes, that's one of the
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things that I really work hard at is to try to be objective, accurate,
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fair, treat the music, you know, with a certain amount of
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fairness. I didn't set up to be a critic. My main goal is
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to describe what somebody's going to hear on the recordings accurately, right, while
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also having you know, a bit of fun with it, and you can't
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help but being through the astic about it from here from time to time right
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when you hear something. So that comes through in the writing as well.
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But objectivity was really important to me. There are other writings about the Dead's
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performances, and they tend to be pretty gushing right, like they can do
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no wrong. Every performance is great. I didn't think that was accurate,
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and if you ask the band members, they would tell you the same thing.
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It's not accurate. They weren't great every single night. And so you
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know, I talk about the performances that are great, the moments that are
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great, but also the stuff that was not so great. What I want
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to write is a whole different matter. I really don't know until I sit
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down and start listening to it and then I start shotting down notes. Sometimes
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it's pretty easy to figure out what you're going to write about, at least
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in part because you're familiar with the concert, or there's a big headline like
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hey, they just played dark Star for the first time in two years.
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You know you're going to kind of go with that. There are other concerts
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that are really a total mystery to me, and I have no idea until
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I sit down and listen to them. And that's part of the challenge is
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you know what is essential here for the listener? You know what's the most
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important thing about this concert that somebody should know about. I'm always interested in
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listening to the different tones on Jerry's guitar throughout the years too. I find
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that interesting. I think you get a different answer from every dead fan who's
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a fan of Jerry's early tone, because then that's like late sixties, early
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seventies, get a little more of a sharper edge to it, and then
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you get into the late seventies and he starts doing things like an estimated profit,
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you know, with the I always forget what the what the name of
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that effect is the mutron? Yeah, a mutron? Right, okay,
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see, I can make the sound. And then you get into the eighties,
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and of course you late eighties, early nineties, so that's that's always
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interesting. There are twenty five shows in the book denoted with a rose,
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that you say are the among the month's best or at least underrated, worthy
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of more attention. Not all of these are consensus choices, though some of
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them off the beaten trail. Any of those off the beaten trail shows that
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stand out to you that you can talk about, you know why you felt
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that way? I got the list in front of me. Yeah, you
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know, there's twenty five in there. Soh seven thirteen eighty four. That
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was the Dark Star at the Greek It was an interesting evening because there was
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a full moon, it was Friday the thirteenth, and they just decided that
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was a proper occasion to pull out Dark Star seven point thirty one, seventy
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four, which I think is Dylan Stadium. That's where at that time in
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seventy four, they had this section between China Cat and I Know You Ride
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or which people refer to as the feeling Groovy section, and they break tick
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out this certain chord sequence where Garcia has a field day, and this particular
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one, because they would do it in seventy three and seventy four, this
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particular version of it, you know, I think his finest example of his
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solo wing over that chord progression in this particular concert seven thirty one seventy four.
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There's some things that you know, aren't even denoted with a rose.
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There are two shows where they had thunderstorms, I mean major storms that they're
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trying to play through. Those are in July tenth, eighty nine, and
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ninety. Those are definitely kind of under the radar. Doesn't have a lot
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to do with the music itself, although trying to perform through those storms was
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pretty interesting. It makes for fun reading. Yeah, Dylan Stadium not far
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from where I'm at right now. That's about thirty minutes from here in Hartford,
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Connecticut, and I think it's now called the Trinity Health Stadium, but
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it'll probably change in about five minutes. They call some else, but Dylan
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Stadium was there for a long time. That's an iconic venue for sure,
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a lot of great shows here in Connecticut. One of the earliest bootleg cassette
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tapes that I became familiar with, and it was because of I think largely
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because of Garcia's playing on that segment. Really melodic, very creative, very
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compelling, and so it was kind of an easy choice for the top twenty
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five. I think you can tell also from this list of twenty five in
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the book that it ranges pretty far and wide. I mean, I picked
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at least one from nineteen sixty six. There's a couple shows from seventy six
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at the Orpheum in San Francisco, eighty nine, ninety seventy four. It
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really ranges across most of the years, and there's something compelling about each of
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them, for sure. I'm curious as to how the band approached their shows
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in terms of a set list, and still do Dead and Company in and
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all those guys that do their shows, because the usual thing is for a
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band to have it all laid out ahead of time. But with the Dead,
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was it different? I mean, did they have a loose concept of
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what they're going to play? Did they agree on a starting song and see
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where it took them? Depends on the year. You know, people think
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that the Dead kind of always made it up as they went along, But
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like in nineteen sixty nine, if you take a look at the set lists,
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quite a bit of it, particularly the first quarter of sixty nine was
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Dark Star, Saint Stephen, the Eleven, Lovelight. Every night they would
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do the same songs. Now, they wouldn't strictly play them the same way,
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although some of those songs at that time were written and so Garcia would
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in fact play these same melodic lines for night after night within Dark Star,
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the same theme. You fast forward to seventy two and they threw that Dark
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Star book away, right. They just completely decided we're just going to improvise,
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play the head the top theme of Dark Star, and then we're just
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going wherever we're going to go. So, you know, there were times
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where I think they were kind of winging it, and you can hear that
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sometimes in nineteen seventy six concerts, they'll come to the end of a song
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and it's not clear how they're going to get to the next one or what
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that next one's going to be. Now, part of that may be because
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they took a year off in seventy five and they were kind of feeling like
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they were going to maybe wing it a bit more, which produce some interesting
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results, whereas in seventy nine you start to feel a sense of a formula
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right where they're going to do a Garcia tune and then a Weird tune,
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and then Garcia and We're and Garcia and We're. Sometimes you know, they
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could decide amongst themselves, like Weird could say, you know, I want
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to do this, and boom, they would do it. But at least
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it was kind of formal in that you wouldn't hear three Garcia tunes in a
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row, right, It was kind of segmented, so they'd be, you
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know, alternating between the two of those guys. And then of course Brent
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got into the mix as well. Yeah, I love Brent's voice. Great
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voice, and there are shows where Dead's firing on all cylinders from start to
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finish, And I wonder if you notice anything that stands out regarding those types
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of shows, like did it come after the band had some time off or
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just the opposite, Like you mentioned, maybe they got into a groove.
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The more back to back nights led them into a groove. Do you notice
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anything there with their best shows. I've kept my eye out for that start
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of the tour, end of the tour, you know, third night of
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a three night set. But again, no formula there either. Garcia once
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remarked about this, right, that he would get frustrated that he didn't have
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a formula himself, right, that a he you know, had a drink
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of this and a pop on this, that he could somehow magically create the
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conditions that were right, and he couldn't do it. And so I never
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really found a particular, you know, formula for that. Some fans think
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they always played great at a certain venue. I'm not sure that's really true.
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So it's a little bit, you know, all over the map when
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it comes to that. I don't think it was really forecastable in that sense.
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Interesting, let's talk about the Red Rocks shows, the band's first of
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twenty shows at the Red Rocks Amphitheater in Colorado comes up in this book.
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Took place July seventh, nineteen seventy eight. It's the second show on the
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following night that gets a rose in the book, their last gig before heading
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into the studio to record the Shakedown Street album. And you say most of
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the magic Tricks are performed in set too. Stands out to you about that
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second set. It's a rare appearance of Werewolves of London in there that I
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noticed, and Sugar Magnolia probably the highlight I think you mentioned in the book.
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Yeah, those are some of the highlights. The one in particular that
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I remember most is the Franklin's Tower after drums, where Garcia has some fantastic
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phrasing, And that's something which I've spent a lot of time trying to figure
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out, like where he is his most melodic, right where he gets really
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creative and utters these phrases that you might remember, you know, for a
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really long time. And there's certainly some of those that appear in July.
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But throughout his career he was able to do it in all kinds of different
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concerts. But Red Rocks, of course, was a venue that people really
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loved and these just happened to be their maiden voyage at that venue. Another
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aspect of it had to do with the weather. If I'm not mistaken that
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some of the Red Rocks shows encountered rain, which was tough to play through,
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and you know, people will read about that as well. And as
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good as this show is, you say, there are a couple of other
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seventy eight shows that are even better. That's February third, in the fifth
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of seventy eight, and I'm curious as to what the siding difference between those
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shows and this show would be the one from from July seven, so February
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third of seventy eight, that has some of this magical Garcia phrasing, but
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on almost every single song, particularly in the first set. And I knew
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about it early because it was one of these early bootleg cassettes that I was
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given. Later it became known more widely because it was a Di's pick,
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right like number thirty, and he put it out and then it became pretty
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well known that two three seventy eight, along with two five seventy eight were
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you know, extremely great performances, particularly for Garcia. So there are times
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where I mentioned that to readers. There's these cross referencing in the book,
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right, It's like, if you liked this, you should check out this
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other concert as well. And that's one of the nice things that I try
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to do in the book book is cross for further reader not just to other
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things in July, but also to let them know about other concerts and other
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months that they might want to explore. Booked on Rock Podcasts. We'll be
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back after this, be right back with a snack, Jack Go Go Away.
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David Kane is the author of Infinite Debt, a Daily Guide to Grateful
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Dead Concert Performances, Volume two July. It's coming out soon. We can't
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say when yet, but it's soon. There's the band's revival of Dark Star
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in this book. You did touch on Darkstar a little bit a little while
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ago. This this comes from a show at the University of California Greek Theater,
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Berkeley, California, July thirteenth, nineteen eighty four, the first time
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in three years, and then they don't play it again for another five years.
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And we were chatting a little bit before we recorded about this as well.
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Any reason that you know why that is it's definitely among my favorites,
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and I'm sure many diehard Deadheads would say the same. But is it just
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that I think you were mentioning earlier before we started, was just maybe they
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got a little burned out on it. It's time for a change. Yeah.
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I think the more positive way to look at it is that they found
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other musical vehicles where they could do similar kinds of improvisation as early as say
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seventy two, where they started with the playing in the band right, that
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thing started off as an eight minute kind of a tune, and then ten
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minutes, and then twelve minutes, and you fast forward to seventy four and
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you've got one concert where they did playing in the band for forty five minutes,
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which is and it's sustained. It's not like some kind of a sleeper
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where they didn't know what to do. I mean, it was incredible improvisation,
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sustained throughout forty five minutes. And so I think they found these other
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vehicles right where they could do the kind of improvising that had been exclusively the
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territory of Dark Star, and so in that sense, I think they didn't
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really need to do it right because they could explore for themselves musically through these
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other songs, and you know, later they started doing that with Scarlet Pagonias.
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That started out short and they began to stretch it out. Then they
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would run it into Fire in the Mountain, and Fire on the Mountain became
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pretty long and extended. In seventy nine in the fall, they would start
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to do Franklin's Tower for twenty minutes, and they often had some really great
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improv on those. So I think that's part of it. But I think
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they just felt maybe their work on Dark Star came to a natural end,
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right, and maybe they had said all they had to say about it until
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they decided, you know, let's do it again and see what we can
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come up with. Yeah, and let's focus on that word they like,
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was this a vote by committee? Was there somebody that was was in charge
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of the decision making mostly? Was it Bob, was it Jerry? Or
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was it just all the guys getting together? I think they talked a lot,
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right, There's a lot of communication between these folks, particularly when Garcia
23:07
was healthy. You know, they kicked around an awful lot of stuff.
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And so because it always felt like maybe Bob and Jerry were the guys that
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I think it was pretty democratic, you know. I think there were a
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lot of strong personalities in the band. And you know, I wasn't there
23:29
on stage, I wasn't behind the stage, but from other things I've read,
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you know, I think everybody was given the power to kind of weigh
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in as you know, hot and heavy as they wanted to write about.
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You can hear it sometimes in some of the tapes where somebody says like we're
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will say I want to do this, and people will object and they'll go
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forward and do it anyway. You know, they often try to talk each
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other out of what direction they're going to go, and I think the band
23:56
has said various members have said that there was often kind of some you know
24:02
fight for the steering wheel about and that happened inside of jams, right are
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they gonna go left, gonna go right? Keep going, stop, go
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somewhere else? But this conversation that was going on musically through their instruments,
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although sometimes even there they you know, have a word with each other.
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So I think all of them were involved, all had strong personalities, and
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I'd say it was really group decision. I love watching them on stage.
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You see the head nods just watching to see what they're communicating nonverbally with little
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head nods, or they're looking at each other, we're looking down at the
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instrument, and see where they're going with it. I found that fascinating.
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I want to go back to scarletgoings into Firing the Mountain. You did mention
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that, When did that start? Because that's probably the probably the best one
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to two combo. The best song into Song of the Dead is Scarlet Fire.
25:00
It's a good one, yeah, or do you feel there's a better
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because that's that's my favorite. That's my personal favorite. Scarlet Fire. It's
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a great couplet. Fire on the Mountain didn't really come on the scene until
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I would say early seventy seven, right, and Scarlet you know, was
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hatched earlier. I can't remember the precise state where the first one occurred where
25:26
they were coupled up, but you know, somewhere in that seventy seven seventy
25:32
eight time frame, and they found it was a really good pairing and kept
25:36
doing it perfect and so you know, the transition between the two songs turned
25:42
out to have some fabulous jamming possibilities, and you know that was often kind
25:49
of the highlight of the two tunes was the piece in the middle sometimes and
25:55
so, yeah, wonderful stuff. I mean, my favorite of that is
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two five seventy eight Cedar Falls Iowa. Just a fantastic version of those two
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songs plus the transition jam. Just okay, I got to remember that two
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five seventy eight. Okay. Yeah, that was again one of those kind
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of under the radars for a while until so the Stick's Pick did not put
26:22
out the complete concerts of February three and February five. He put them together
26:27
and they came out that way, and that's how it found, you know,
26:32
a wider audience. For me. A friend of mine had turned me
26:34
on to the Cedar Falls concert. He was pretty good about finding great performances
26:41
and turned me onto it, and yeah, unforgettable. Really, I think
26:48
you'll find that sometimes popularity is now and has been driven by what comes out
26:53
officially, right, So if it comes out as a Dix Picks or Dave's
26:57
Pick, you know, suddenly there's a lot more interest in that particular concert.
27:02
It drives people to archive dot org there's more commentary on it. But
27:07
yeah, that was one of those that remained in the weeds for a long
27:11
time archive dot org. Man, I remember, boy, I remember visiting
27:15
that website as far back as two thousand, maybe two thousand and one.
27:21
Yeah, I loved going there to listen to all this stuff. And now
27:23
you got all the dis picks, Dave's pecks, you got all that stuff.
27:26
Is so much out there and then serious exam which I have, but
27:30
they got, they got the live stuff, they got the studio only stuff.
27:36
I think there's even a third one in there. But yeah, there's
27:40
plenty of debt out there. The one interesting Actually we're going let's go back
27:44
to that nineteen eighty four show July thirteen. That's when they insert touch of
27:48
Gray in between Scarlet Pagoona's and Fire in the Mountain. So that's interesting.
27:55
Opens the second set and I was giving it a listen, and it's really
28:00
interesting because it's played faster than the studio version. And then it sounds like
28:03
Jerry says cat has not been fed in years instead of dog has not been
28:08
fed in years? For you, how does it sound with touch of gray
28:11
in the middle? An interesting choice. I mean, they they would continue
28:18
to play around with stuff like that. They would do you know, sugar,
28:23
they'd stick sugar Magnolion there like attach it to scarlet or something, right,
28:27
And so if you look in dead Base you can see the entire history
28:34
of Scarlet and what it was paired with. And so for the most part
28:41
Scarlet was married to fire. But here and there, right, they would
28:45
change it up a little bit, and you could see the particular dates where
28:49
it you know, changed dance partners if you will. So, you know,
28:56
Estimated Eyes. That was another one that was pretty standard, right,
29:00
that Eyes of the World would always follow Estimated Profit at least starting say in
29:03
seventy nine, that became a dedicated kind of couplet, and in fact,
29:07
he could go to a concert and kind of expect that the top of the
29:12
second set would be, you know, Estimated Eyes, Scarlet Fire or vice
29:17
versa, something like that. But then later they began to change it up
29:22
a bit, and of course, like today, Dead and Company, they
29:26
do whatever they want, right, I mean you find second set dead tunes
29:29
in the first set and first set songs in the second set, So it's
29:33
all kind of a work in progress, I guess. Yeah. John Mayer
29:37
was talking about how he learned, he learned the hard way of what it's
29:41
like to be in the band that Bob Weir was just changing the tempo on
29:45
a song, changing the chord structure, changing all the stuff, like on
29:48
the fly, and he had to be ready. It's like boom, okay,
29:52
we're doing this. But I tell you that's probably the best for me,
29:56
the best, the best version of the band or extension of the band
30:00
since Jerry passed. What do you think Bobby's new band is really good too?
30:07
Man? I saw Bobby's band, Well, what do they call Bob
30:11
but we were in us Wolf Brothers Outstanding. They came to Connecticut. Yeah,
30:18
but yeah, sorry, But what do you think of the John Mayer
30:22
era? Well, you know what a wonderful surprise, right that John Mayer
30:30
had such a feel for this music. Who the hell knew? Right?
30:33
And I still remember there was a video of when he played with Phil at
30:38
terrapin Crossroads and I think did Sugary and blew everybody away? I mean,
30:44
just took that song to another level. And he's kind of made sugaryan deal
30:49
of course his own. That's what you could hear in the first year,
30:52
second year, like wow, he's taken these songs to a new level,
30:57
and you know, continued to just do some amazing things with some of these
31:03
songs, even this you know, more recent tour, if you will,
31:08
their residency at the Sphere. Some friends of mine went and after the first
31:14
night, they went on a Thursday, and I said, you've got to
31:17
hear the Brown Eyed Women. And lucky there was a video of it.
31:21
Somebody had captured it a fan right from the third row of sorts and wow,
31:26
yeah, absolutely stunning, just killing it and so a hell of a
31:33
band. Fantastic improvisation. Very fortunate, right for anybody who loves this music,
31:41
that this happened and is available. You think there's a there is an
31:45
official release. I think I saw on Spotify. I think I put one
31:48
of the songs in the in this episode's playlist. I believe there's one from
31:52
the twenty twenty three tour. Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, I don't.
31:56
I haven't followed what they've done kind of officially, like if they've released it
32:01
to some of those radio stations. I mean, I don't think there's like
32:06
a formal picks where you get MP three's and you pay twenty five bucks or
32:09
whatever. But you know, it certainly captured my imagination. I've been keeping
32:15
notes if I ever get finished with this project, you've added another chore,
32:22
another task. Yeah, I mean I have to say my heart is still
32:28
with the Grateful Dead, and you know, if I have a moment to
32:32
listen to something that's kind of where my ears would like to be. So
32:37
I think, first, yeah, I'd like to finish this project. But
32:40
I think Dead and Company's work is certainly worthy right of investigation and documentation.
32:47
Just some fantastic music they've created. Absolutely, staying with touch Aga a little
32:52
bit longer. I'm not sure how many of those outside of the of the
32:57
Dead world know that this is a song there's played live for quite a while
33:00
before it was recorded and then released in nineteen eighty seven and became the hit
33:04
single. When did the band first perform that song? Do you know?
33:07
Far two? Yeah, you got it eighty two and some of the early
33:14
versions are among my favorite I'm trying to remember now. I think it might
33:19
have been Stanford in the Spring again a cassette that I have in my head
33:24
of Garcia's soloing on Touch of Gray. Fabulous, just great, and so
33:30
yeah, they played it a lot until you know, it became something that
33:36
was on an album and a top ten hit. Amazing, amazing. I
33:40
love the visit that Bob and Jerry did on The Letterman Show, and just
33:45
the way they they played down that whole thing, like, yeah, I
33:50
guess we're we're pop stars now. Yeah, you know, it's just like
33:54
who knew? Nobody expected that one? So funny, so funny, the
34:00
one aspect of Dead live history that is kind of it's just confounding. You
34:06
would think this teaming up with Bob Dylan thing would have been just massively successful
34:13
and with the fans and critics. But that album from eighty nine, that
34:17
was taken from the eighty seven Dead Dylan tour, and it was just panned
34:21
by critics. Although when I went and searched online, there are some Dead
34:25
fans on Reddit who say they liked the album. They're a fan of those
34:29
shows. What is your take on that tour, the Dead Dylan Tour of
34:32
eighty seven, So you know, I have reviews of those multiple yeah,
34:39
multiple three About the book, I think maybe there are five at least five
34:43
concerts in July where they were backing Bob Dylan, So there are of course
34:51
grateful Dead sets in there, right, I mean, it wasn't all just
34:53
Bob Dylan, and so I think the first maybe the second you've got one
34:59
long, grateful Dead set, and then they would play two Grateful Dead sets
35:04
that are a little more normal for the fans to expect, right, and
35:07
then the last set would be Bob Dylan tunes where they're the band and they're
35:12
doing Bob Dylan songs and Dylan is singing, and you know they're grateful Dead
35:17
fans, right. Some of them like Bob Dylan and appreciate his music,
35:22
but it's different, right, And so I wouldn't necessarily expect the same kind
35:29
of enthusiasm right from the audience or from the record buying public for the Dead
35:35
as Dylan's backing band. But there was one of the Handful, right that
35:42
happened in July that I reviewed that I thought was pretty good. But I'm
35:45
a fan of Bob Dylan. I love his songs, right. A little
35:51
more interesting for me was kind of what the Dead themselves did with Bob Dylan
35:54
songs. For example, Bob, we're doing Desolation Row and actually trying to
36:00
actually pull that off. I mean, there's how many verses and they're all
36:04
long verses. I mean, why would anybody take that risk. Right,
36:07
It's like an impossible task just to do that song, and he would do
36:12
it over and over again. And I really admired that that they would tackle
36:16
these songs that were really long and challenging, and they would do them.
36:23
And so it was interesting to watch them add one Dilan tune after another,
36:28
right, and they would even you know, Lesh had his I think Tom
36:31
Thumb's Blues was the Lesh choice of a Dylan tune. So they all loved
36:37
him and they all you know, made it part of their repertoire, which
36:40
was you know, fun for me to see. I'm assuming they knew each
36:45
other going back to late sixties San Francisco era. Did they cross paths early
36:51
on? Perhaps? You know, you would think they would. I don't
36:59
think. I think Dylan was touring as regularly right as the Dead early seventies.
37:07
Not so sure he was, you know, he was. He had
37:10
a lot of business putting out albums, right, I mean, that was
37:14
his forte really, He certainly had a history of touring. But the Dead
37:21
really, you know, loved being on the road and that was their thing,
37:24
and of course Dylan was a zillion times more famous, right, So
37:29
I think it was maybe a little harder for him to get around without being
37:34
noticed and having any sort of normal life, almost like the Beatles, right.
37:37
So, I don't know, I don't know how often they really cross
37:42
paths. But from a musical perspective, yeah, the Dead knew all about
37:46
him. They were voracious students of music, which would include certainly all of
37:53
Dylan stuff, going back to Baby Blue, right, which the Dead covered
38:00
very very early in their career. I think that was maybe the first Dylan
38:05
song that they covered as the Grateful Dad, and he first joined the band
38:09
July second, nineteen eighty six, University of Akron, the Rubber Bowl in
38:14
Akron, Ohio. That is in your book quite a few July fourth shows
38:17
covered. Talk about the two that give that you give roses to, which
38:22
are Manor Downs in Austin, Texas nineteen eighty one and then rich Stadium in
38:27
Orchard Park, New York in nineteen eighty nine. What stands out about those
38:30
shows in particular? There is a great not fade away during the Orchard Park
38:36
show that you mentioned. Yeah, it's been a while since since I visited
38:42
them. You know, sometimes it's just, you know, a great performance
38:47
and you hear it in the music. The Orchard Park as the Long Morning
38:53
Do right, which man one of my favorite yeah, one of my favorite
38:58
Dead Duns. Yeah yeah, so there you go. That was certainly a
39:00
highlight of that particular July fourth performance manor Downs. I think they did quite
39:10
a lot of jamming in set two, which was great, and so it
39:15
just it's surprising to me, you know, that kind of a holiday occasion
39:20
where they would actually turn in a great performance, right, particularly being outdoors,
39:23
it can be a little unfocused and hard to you keep your attention on
39:29
things. A lot of times it was extremely hot too outside, But it's
39:35
interesting they were able to turn in some really good performances on the fourth,
39:38
which is great. Morning Dew I always think Grateful Dead. Of course it
39:44
was not written by them. It goes back to I think the early sixties.
39:47
But there's another great version that Jeff Beck and Rod Stewart did too,
39:52
that's on Truth Fascinate, you know, just a fascinating recording and and and
39:59
just beautiful song. I don't think i've ever heard the original Morning Dew.
40:02
It's just like I always think Grateful Dead. You know, they've had they
40:06
they when did they first start playing that? That must have been early on
40:09
because the song was written and I think sixty two sixty three. Yeah,
40:15
it was an early part of their repertoire. And one of the things that
40:21
I do in the book is I'll often note the original source of a particular
40:28
song, right, and if it's the first time they played it now in
40:31
July, who the heck knows, Right, they've already played Morning Do a
40:36
bunch of times. But wherever it's the first time they're doing a cover of
40:40
their tune, I've tried to note in a footnote who is the original artist
40:45
on this song. And they were very much students of American music, and
40:52
they would just pull from anybody, anywhere, anytime, R and B,
40:58
country folk, and that's what made their repertoire I think so wonderful. It's
41:04
very eclectic, and of course they just came up with these really interesting treatments
41:08
of the song. Morning two became a really powerful anthem. I think my
41:15
favorite versions are still from nineteen seventy two. I mean the europe seventy two
41:19
version. Oh yeah, that's still maybe my favorite. You know, if
41:22
I was going to listen to one, I think I think that would be
41:27
it. And but yeah, that's it was Bonnie Dobson, the original artist.
41:35
I'm looking here, just quickly googling, and you may have mentioned in
41:38
the book, and I apologize if if you had it in there. I
41:40
can Canadian folk artist. Yeah, I thought tim Rose. That's tim Rose,
41:45
Okay, but that's you know, a while to ask guests. Yeah,
41:52
oh yeah, tim Rose. Tim Rose recorded a version in nineteen sixty
41:54
seven. Okay, maybe there was somebody before him, but that's the one
42:00
that I remember, and it could be when it and I don't, you
42:06
know, have a clear working knowledge of the nineteen sixty seven album, although
42:08
I have it the Dead's album. But some of this I remember, you
42:14
know, reading a label right because they would give credit to the original artist
42:16
on it, you know. But yeah, great tune. Yeah. July
42:22
nineteenth, nineteen ninety four, the band played the Deer Creek Amphitheater, Noblesville,
42:27
Indiana, And you're right, quote Garcia, his vocals are week from
42:30
the start on the opening Shakedown Street labored thin with the occasional ray of strength
42:36
poking through the dark clouds. Is it fair to say that that would be
42:39
the case for those last few years of Jerry's performances, where it was kind
42:44
of hait or miss or where there shows where he was on the whole show?
42:50
A good question. So yeah, I think clearly he was physically challenged,
42:57
you know, ninety five for surety four? Yes, are there any
43:01
ninety four concerts that he kind of pulled it together and it was quite good
43:08
relative to nineteen ninety four The answers yes, Like October one, ninety four
43:13
I remember, and I mentioned in the other book was one where he sounded
43:16
like a younger version of himself suddenly, like it's something in nineteen ninety four
43:22
that really stands out as being different and really good. But generally speaking,
43:28
you know, he was declining in terms of his health. He was not
43:30
getting better, and so yeah, his voice was getting weaker, his hands
43:36
were getting weaker, and you can hear it on the recordings. I have
43:42
a picture looking at it right here on the wall of around ninety four ninety
43:45
five, And it was difficult to watch some of those last shows where you
43:51
can see it's just his head, he's he can barely get hold his head
43:52
up, and he's just he's weak, he's tired, but he man,
43:55
he went out there and played and he just he fought through it, and
43:59
then the last performance ever, he has that moment there where he's singing in
44:02
so many roads You're like, that's Jerry, you know, that's that magic
44:07
Jerry moment. And that's July ninth, nineteen eighty five, Soldier Field,
44:10
Chicago. So that's in the book. It just gives me goosebumps every time,
44:15
you know what, the same in the book. And then just one
44:17
month later he's gone. We know there are better shows out there in terms
44:22
of Jerry, but I think it's a pretty impressive last show considering his condition
44:25
at that time. What are your thoughts on that very last show with Jerry.
44:31
Well, nobody knew it was the last show. It was just another
44:35
concert, you know, even Garcia kind of. I mean, it was
44:39
the end of the tour if I remember correctly, and they had more shows
44:43
lined up for later, so they were going to take a break, and
44:45
I think the expectation is Jerry will be fine, he'll recover, what have
44:51
you, and they go on and do more shows. So they didn't really
44:53
know it was their last show. It's just in hindsight, everybody knows it
44:58
as the last show. You know. One of the things you can do
45:01
as a musician. As an artist when your health is starting to fail,
45:06
is you know, you can still do slower songs and do them really well
45:09
and fill them with a lot of meaning and emotion and passion. And so
45:15
you know, his treatment of ballads was still kind of working, right if
45:20
you had a slower song where you know, he didn't have to be a
45:23
rock guitar god anymore, right, and he could really just focus on the
45:30
feeling behind the vocals and you know, play a smattering of notes and fill
45:35
them with a lot of emotion. He could do quite a bit. And
45:38
I think that's you know, what fans were still you know, able to
45:44
enjoy at that time, right that. I think he was an artist to
45:49
the end. One of the things I noticed in the book was that in
45:52
these later performances you can hear how he's trying to alternate accents on some of
45:59
the words he's singing in the verses. Bob Dylan, of course, had
46:01
been doing this for a really long time, and you can start to hear
46:06
Garcia do it like this was within his wheelhouse right to accent and change up
46:10
emphasis on some of the words and the lines that he was singing. So
46:15
I think he was still at it as an artist. He was still evolving.
46:20
Yeah, still trying to do whatever he could do to invent and to
46:24
create and to you know, transmit feeling and so many Rose was planned to
46:30
be on a thirtieth anniversary album, I believe, so that was going to
46:36
be on the studio. They were going to record that in the studio.
46:39
I don't think they ever did, but it would have been great to hear
46:43
that, or maybe maybe there's something out there, maybe you know more than
46:45
me. I don't know if they ever even got started on that album.
46:50
I think, yeah, there's a whole bunch of tunes that you know,
46:52
they were starting to play for the first time. You know, there was
46:55
a lush tune and right and you know, and perhaps right, if things
47:01
had gone a little differently, they might have done what they had used to
47:07
do, which is they play songs live for a time, right, and
47:09
then they go into the studio and record them and put out an album.
47:14
So perhaps, you know, that was in the cards. I think Vince
47:17
well Nick would have had a song too, right, He was the keyboardist
47:21
at the end. Yeah, he had been with him for you know a
47:27
number of years. At that point. You know, joined in fall of
47:31
ninety formerly of The Tubes, a Bay Area band. Yeah, yeah,
47:37
that was that was a transition, right that It was not easy for them
47:43
to try to figure that out. I think it got a little easier in
47:49
ninety two when Hornsby, you know, exited right as a semi regular member,
47:54
and then you know, the keyboard and piano fell completely to Vince and
48:00
he had that space to himself, did a nice job. Do you have
48:05
a particular favorite It's starting of course with Pig Ben Ron McKiernan, but then
48:08
you have Keith, Gotshawn and Bred Midland and we mentioned well Nick and Hornsby.
48:15
Any for any favorite era of the band for you? Hard to pick?
48:22
You know, they all had they all had their moments. So yeah,
48:30
that's a that's a tough thing to answer. I think, uh,
48:36
I mean, but more bluesy with the Run the Run McKiernan era, and
48:39
he was more into the the bluesy stuff. And then after his passing the
48:44
sound starts to change. I think, like mid seventies, you start to
48:46
hear it. Well, you know, his keyboard playing was mostly in the
48:51
background. You know, he wasn't really given sort of a whole lot of
48:54
space. I'm not sure there was much interest right from him and becoming you
49:00
know, a keyboard organ soloist exactly. I mean, his his sweet spot
49:07
was microphone in hand, being in front on the stage and getting the audience
49:12
worked up. Sometimes with an acoustic guitar in his hand, that was another
49:15
sweet spot. But Keith gotchaw different story, right. He really filled out
49:22
their sound in a really interesting way, and he got highlighted here and there
49:27
and many times in those Dark Star jams and seventy three say, you know,
49:31
he would be leading the way many times, bringing a lot of his
49:38
jazz ideas into that particular song. And of course Brent was very different.
49:45
Instead of being piano focused, Brent was keyboard focused, right, and he
49:51
had all kinds of different keyboard sounds and was more of a singer really than
49:55
Keith, you know Keith really Keith would do some harmony vocals, but didn't
50:00
really have his own book of songs, and Brent continued to try to bring
50:05
in songs of his own into the repertoire. So yeah, his vocals on
50:08
Dear Mister Fantasy I always loved. Yeah, that became a pretty popular cover
50:15
tune. I think Brent really shined for me in eighty nine and ninety.
50:21
When you hear the band at that point, it's very much to me an
50:28
ensemble where everybody's on an equal playing field. Like he finally wasn't the other
50:34
guy. He wasn't just the keyboard player. I mean he was everywhere.
50:38
If you listen to concerts from eighty nine and ninety, he was, you
50:44
know, singing harmony, vocals on stuff, he was taking solos on things.
50:47
He had his own tunes. He has zone tunes on both those studio
50:51
albums. Yeah, in the Dark and Built to Last. He really was
50:57
on an even playing field I think with everybody, and I mean to me,
51:02
it was kind of his finest hour and then you know, just tragically
51:07
right passed away. But that was a wonderful time for the band, and
51:14
I think generally they were happy with that feel, that ensemble feel, and
51:17
took some pressure off Garcia, I think too. Right. He was only
51:21
thirty seven years old when he died July twenty sixth, nineteen ninety Brent Midland.
51:27
Yeah, real sad, but a great player. And of course I
51:30
still remember in seventy nine, which is when I started to go see the
51:35
band in person, and there was a big question mark, who's the sky
51:37
Brent? Any good? Where did they get it from? By the way,
51:42
where was he before that? I could look here, Yeah I can't
51:46
remember. Yeah, he let's see pret grateful dead he was. He joined
51:52
a band with Rick Carlos. He was asked joins. Yeah, just he
51:58
was in a band called Silver which they signed with the Arista Records. And
52:04
then he got in touch with Bob we Are via connection from bat Dorf and
52:07
Rodney and joined weird side project Bobby in the Midnights. Okay, so he
52:12
was in Bobby in the Midnights. That part I remember, but you know,
52:16
the big question mark. And I was saying the Fall tour, which
52:20
is the first time for a lot of people sing the band with Brent,
52:23
and it's like can this guy play? Can he improvise? And and some
52:28
of those concerts in the Fall seventy nine he was the star of the show.
52:31
I mean, his im props on Franklin's Tower equal to Garcia's some nights
52:37
and it was like case closed. You know, this guy's a keeper.
52:40
Yeah. And he was in that chair a very long time, I think
52:44
longer than anybody. So yeah, it's a great era. So we have
52:49
the book coming out very soon, Infinite Dead, a Daily Guide to Gravel
52:52
Dead Concert Performances, Volume two July. People can get the October book that's
52:58
been out for over a few years now. So what's the game plan here?
53:01
Can people? Do you have a Facebook page or a website people can
53:06
go to just to find out when this book is going to be released.
53:09
The best thing to do, and I'm going to give a data around July
53:14
first, is just type Infinite Dead into Amazon and that's the best way to
53:20
find it. There is a blog infinitedebt dot net, but the purpose of
53:25
that blog is just to house links to recordings of the concerts. So the
53:30
e book version has hyperlinks that you can click on and be taken after reading
53:37
the review. You can click on the hyperlink and go directly to the blog,
53:40
and then click again and you'll go to the archive dot or recording the
53:45
paperback. Of course, there's no hyperlinks, but the ebook has a special
53:49
feature where you can do that. So just type in the Dead into Amazon
53:55
and keep my fingers crossedly first. Yeah, and it is a must read
54:01
for Dead fans. You sent me the advanced copy that has the the links
54:07
in there, and yeah, so it's just it's a it's a fun read.
54:13
If you get the the Kindle version, you know, the the E
54:16
copy, I mean for the October those links are live, so if you
54:22
have if you go buy the October ebook, they're all fine as far as
54:25
I know. Uh, these links don't get published till July first, so
54:30
when the book is out, the e book will have live hyperlinks and you
54:35
cannot just read the reviews, but you can listen to the music. Cool.
54:38
David Kane, Thanks man, this was awesome. We really enjoyed this.
54:43
Thanks so much for being on. Thank you. That's it. It's
54:52
in the books.