Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL! Sex killer Jodi Arias ensnares new boyfriend. Part 1

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BOMBSHELL! Sex killer Jodi Arias ensnares new boyfriend. Part 1 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Jodi Arius convicted in the murder of her lover Travis
0:09
Speaker 1: Alexandra brutally murdered so many stab wounds they really couldn't
0:15
Speaker 1: be counted. Um somewhere between twenty seven and twenty nine
0:20
Speaker 1: stab wounds, and then shot in the head, his body
0:23
Speaker 1: left to decay naked in his shower stall. We are
0:28
Speaker 1: waiting the outcome of a Jodi Aris appeal in Arizona.
0:32
Speaker 1: We ain't heard the last of her yet. Crime stories
0:43
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. What's going on? Our friend of ours
0:49
Speaker 1: is dead in his bedroom. We hadn't heard from for
0:52
Speaker 1: a while. Blood. I didn't know when that I. Can
1:00
Speaker 1: you give you the song to someone who went in there? Can? Yes?
1:02
Speaker 1: Please name? Hello? Hi? So, what's going on? He's dead?
1:08
Speaker 1: He's in his bedroom, Okay, in the shower. Okay, how
1:12
Speaker 1: did this happen? Do you have any idea? We have
1:14
Speaker 1: no idea. Everyone's been wondering about him for She said
1:17
Speaker 1: that there's blood, So is it coming from his head?
1:20
Speaker 1: Did he? It's all over the place? Hold on just
1:23
Speaker 1: a moment. Okay, you're a good friend of if Travis's Sam? Okay?
1:30
Speaker 1: PSI has been depressed it all thinking about getting suicide
1:33
Speaker 1: anything like that. I don't think he's been He's been
1:37
Speaker 1: really depressed because he broke up with this girl and
1:40
Speaker 1: he was upset about that, But I don't think he
1:43
Speaker 1: would actually kill himself over that. Has he been threatened
1:46
Speaker 1: by anyone recently? He has? He hasn't. He has an
1:49
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend's been bothering him and following him in, flashing
1:53
Speaker 1: tires and things like that. And do you know the
1:55
Speaker 1: ex girl friend man um Her name is Jody's Jodi Arius.
2:00
Speaker 1: Is her name a name that will live in infamy?
2:03
Speaker 1: I mean, as he Grace. This is crime stories. Thank
2:05
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Jodi Arius convicted in the
2:09
Speaker 1: murder of her lover, Travis Alexandra, even converting to Mormon,
2:14
Speaker 1: the Mormon religion to please her lover, Travis Alexander, a
2:18
Speaker 1: devout Mormon. He ends up dead, his body decomposing in
2:22
Speaker 1: the shower stall with about twenty eight to twenty nine
2:25
Speaker 1: stab wounds. Nobody was ever sure how many, because of
2:28
Speaker 1: overlapping stab wounds and a gunshot wound to the head
2:33
Speaker 1: in the prime of his life. Why. Although the state
2:36
Speaker 1: doesn't have to prove motivation, it was speculated because he
2:40
Speaker 1: insisted on breaking up with her and dating a new woman,
2:43
Speaker 1: actually planning a trip with a new person. But as
2:47
Speaker 1: I said, it ain't over yet right now, an appeal
2:52
Speaker 1: hangs in the balance with Jodi Arius. As we learned
2:55
Speaker 1: disturbing new information regarding Jody Air is spending the holidays
3:02
Speaker 1: with her boyfriend behind bars, what with me right now?
3:06
Speaker 1: And All Star Panels kicking it off with Kurt Nurmi,
3:10
Speaker 1: that is Jodi Aris's former defense lawyer and author I've
3:14
Speaker 1: trapped with miss Arius. I guess that title says it all.
3:18
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone, friend and colleague, former special agent FBI and
3:23
Speaker 1: star of the FB watch series Curse of Akacre. Doctor
3:27
Speaker 1: Karen Start, renowned psychologists, joining me out of Manhattan. You
3:30
Speaker 1: can find her at Karen Stark dot com. Forensic expert,
3:34
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jackson State University and author of Blood Beneath
3:37
Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. If that title doesn't make you
3:40
Speaker 1: want to read it, I don't know what would. Joseph
3:42
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan joining me right now to Radar Online dot
3:46
Speaker 1: com investigative reporter Alexis terres Chuck. Alexis terres Check, I
3:50
Speaker 1: can always count on you to do some digging. How
3:54
Speaker 1: the hey did you find out that Joe? What is
3:57
Speaker 1: wrong with men? Why do they Why are they attracted
4:00
Speaker 1: to Jodi Arius. Look, I'm not saying she's not pretty,
4:04
Speaker 1: not to me, because I know she's a cold blooded
4:06
Speaker 1: killer and she's crag gray. But a lot of men
4:10
Speaker 1: think she's attractive. They think she's got a pretty face,
4:12
Speaker 1: they think she's got a great body. Is that all
4:15
Speaker 1: they think? That's a question for the shrink, because clearly
4:19
Speaker 1: Alexis Terres, even from behind bars, she can lure men.
4:25
Speaker 1: What do you mean she had holidays with her boyfriends,
4:29
Speaker 1: her lovers. What So, according to the records that I
4:33
Speaker 1: obtained from the Arizona Department of Corrections, in the last
4:36
Speaker 1: three months, she has spent hours and hours and hours
4:40
Speaker 1: with this gentleman named Benjamin Ernst Ben and Jody met
4:44
Speaker 1: And in fact, she had hatched this plot while she
4:48
Speaker 1: was behind bars to marry Ben and she had even
4:52
Speaker 1: talked about trying to get pregnant by him, thinking that
4:54
Speaker 1: that would somehow get her out of jail. So explain
4:58
Speaker 1: to me what will wait, Alexis. I'm trying from the
5:00
Speaker 1: fire hydrant here. It's too too much, too fast. Did
5:03
Speaker 1: you just say get pregnant behind bars? I did, okay,
5:06
Speaker 1: I thought that's what you said. Now you have a baby, right,
5:09
Speaker 1: alexis a beautiful baby boy? Correct? You do know where
5:12
Speaker 1: babies come from? Right? So how is Jody Arius going
5:18
Speaker 1: to get a bun in the oven behind bars? Not?
5:20
Speaker 1: Under is our Pio is still in power out there
5:23
Speaker 1: is not in power of the jail anymore. Who's the
5:26
Speaker 1: Knie Sheriff? Paul Pinzone? Oh yeah, I love paulpins on this, right,
5:30
Speaker 1: m Paul Pinzone. Paul Pinzone is not going to allow
5:35
Speaker 1: anybody to get pregnant behind bars. I don't believe. So
5:39
Speaker 1: explain to me Alexis to rush, like, how can Jody
5:41
Speaker 1: Arius plot to have a baby from behind gail house walls? Well,
5:46
Speaker 1: this is just sort of one of Jody's hairbrand schemes.
5:48
Speaker 1: I think she thought maybe somehow they could smuggle some
5:51
Speaker 1: sperm into the jail and what happened. Jody's crazy, and
5:56
Speaker 1: that's what she was hoping that could happen. Right, Maybe
5:58
Speaker 1: she was thinking it would be immaculate conception. Where did
6:00
Speaker 1: you get that information? How do you know that she
6:02
Speaker 1: wrote this in a letter to her. I believe that
6:06
Speaker 1: we're in mitigation specialist Maria de la Rossa. She wrote
6:09
Speaker 1: in a letter that you know she was pregnant mate
6:10
Speaker 1: with Ben's baby, then maybe this would help her in
6:13
Speaker 1: her sense. Okay, as much as I really want to
6:15
Speaker 1: go to doctor Karen starts psychologists joining us, I'm sorry, Karen,
6:18
Speaker 1: but I've got to go to Kurt n Armie Arius,
6:21
Speaker 1: former defense lawyer who went through so much trying to
6:24
Speaker 1: defend her a trial, got a lot of hate mail,
6:27
Speaker 1: made a lot of enemies in his efforts to defend
6:29
Speaker 1: Jodi Arius, ending up with a big kick in the teeth.
6:33
Speaker 1: Kurt Narmie, Now I'm beginning to understand your title of
6:35
Speaker 1: your book, Trapped with miss Arius. What do you make
6:37
Speaker 1: of her scheme? I wouldn't even say that it's far fetched,
6:42
Speaker 1: because if anybody could do what Arias could to mitigate
6:45
Speaker 1: her sentence by getting pregnant with her old boyfriend from
6:48
Speaker 1: behind bars, what do you make of that, Kurt? Well, look,
6:51
Speaker 1: I think it's consistent with the plan I talked in
6:53
Speaker 1: my book about this. Back then, it was more related
6:57
Speaker 1: to money and getting attention from may of getting their money,
7:01
Speaker 1: and this may be more of the same, or it
7:03
Speaker 1: maybe some plots or get out or some sort of scheme.
7:06
Speaker 1: And she's always got some sort of scheme. She feels
7:09
Speaker 1: like she can play men with. And beyond that, obviously,
7:14
Speaker 1: miss de LaRosa is not her mitigation specialist. She was
7:17
Speaker 1: her mitigation specialists. So she's got these people that she
7:20
Speaker 1: can convince of her victimhood and get them to advance
7:24
Speaker 1: her agenda. Well, we know that Jodi Arius can't spin
7:28
Speaker 1: a yarn? Does anybody remember her Ninja story? Listen, I
7:33
Speaker 1: turn around. Two people are One was a guy, one's
7:37
Speaker 1: a girl. I couldn't tell it at first, but I
7:41
Speaker 1: could just see one was a girl. I assume that
7:43
Speaker 1: there was a guys. They're build and then their voices
7:49
Speaker 1: if you're wearing maybe jeans. One wasn't all black, one
7:53
Speaker 1: was in jeans. Don't say anything? What words did you hear? Um?
8:01
Speaker 1: Who is that? Who is that? I thought he was
8:04
Speaker 1: by himself or alone or something. He was like shut
8:10
Speaker 1: just finished it. And and Travis was screaming the whole time.
8:16
Speaker 1: He wasn't screaming like a girl. He was just like
8:19
Speaker 1: like he was in pain, like he was like shocked.
8:22
Speaker 1: You know. He took off and he's still anyway stopped
8:29
Speaker 1: to Oh, Charles. He was he was still conscious and
8:39
Speaker 1: still alive. She's actually crying here and start Karen. She's
8:45
Speaker 1: so convincing that when she tells the police during interrogation
8:51
Speaker 1: that two ninjas dressed all in black broke in while
8:54
Speaker 1: she's I guess, still having her sex marathon with Travis Alexander,
8:57
Speaker 1: trying to convince him not to take another woman to Camcoon.
9:00
Speaker 1: These two ninjas dressed all in black break in, kill
9:04
Speaker 1: Travis and she escapes and Travis is screaming and did
9:09
Speaker 1: you hear go like this? Oh the whole time? And
9:12
Speaker 1: she ran away. She's actually crying as she recounts the story.
9:16
Speaker 1: It's a big fat lie that didn't happen. What is
9:18
Speaker 1: wrong with her? She's a pathological liar, and so when
9:22
Speaker 1: she tells these stories, Nancy, to her, they're real. She's
9:27
Speaker 1: reliving what she sees in her mind. And she can
9:30
Speaker 1: cry over anything. She's a most nipulative person. We know that.
9:35
Speaker 1: So she comes up with lie after lie, and it
9:39
Speaker 1: doesn't even cross her mind that maybe this won't be
9:43
Speaker 1: very believable because she just told about ninjas and now
9:46
Speaker 1: she's changing the story again, and Jody Arius will say
9:51
Speaker 1: anything to get attention and try and get people to
9:56
Speaker 1: empathize with her, see if she could change her sentence.
10:00
Speaker 1: In love with her really good at that time stories
10:17
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Aaron, you told me that you lived
10:25
Speaker 1: with Travis during the time he dated Jodi Arius. What
10:28
Speaker 1: was that relationship, Like, what did you observe, if anything?
10:31
Speaker 1: You know, when they first met, Travis was on cloud dying.
10:34
Speaker 1: Here was a very attractive young lady that he that
10:37
Speaker 1: he had met at that convention in Las Vegas. They
10:39
Speaker 1: shared a lot of similar interests and similar passions, real
10:43
Speaker 1: drive and ambition in life, and so he thought he
10:46
Speaker 1: had found the one. And at the beginning of the relationship,
10:51
Speaker 1: everything seemed like it was going to go perfectly and
10:53
Speaker 1: possibly go all the way. You know, things deteriorated quickly.
10:56
Speaker 1: There were lots of trust issues and oh, right there,
11:02
Speaker 1: right there, Aaron, let's not put perfume on the pig.
11:05
Speaker 1: What do you mean by there were a lot of
11:07
Speaker 1: trust issues. Well, you know, she's admitted in some of
11:10
Speaker 1: her statements that she would go through his emails, his
11:14
Speaker 1: social media accounts, his text messages. There was a time
11:18
Speaker 1: when they were on vacation together and he was a
11:22
Speaker 1: sleeper in the shower and a text message came in
11:24
Speaker 1: from another girl, and she responded to that girl as
11:27
Speaker 1: if she was Travis, telling her how happy that he
11:32
Speaker 1: was to be with her, and she's the best thing
11:34
Speaker 1: that ever happened, And in an attempt to scare the
11:36
Speaker 1: scroll away from Travis, Okay, what a whacka doodle. Okay,
11:41
Speaker 1: So she gets the now deceased lover Travis Alexander's cell phone,
11:45
Speaker 1: that's me speaking with Travis's friend Aaron Dewey and starts
11:49
Speaker 1: responding to a woman that had texted Travis Alexander as
11:54
Speaker 1: if she's Travis. Now, I want you to hear speaking
11:58
Speaker 1: of tall tales, take a listen to what now? I remember,
12:04
Speaker 1: Keep in mind Arius has said to ninjas broke in
12:10
Speaker 1: Travis's home while she's there having a sex marathon with
12:13
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander, and they slaughtered him. And she manages somehow
12:18
Speaker 1: James Bond sneaky snake disappear, get away from the killer ninjas.
12:25
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, not so fast. What about this
12:30
Speaker 1: household absolutely nowhere near Mason was near No Phoenix, I
12:41
Speaker 1: wasn't even close to him. You prove he with her.
12:53
Speaker 1: I wasn't there. I was not a Travis's house was
12:59
Speaker 1: not what. Okay, wait a minute, Bobby Chicon from our
13:02
Speaker 1: special agent FBI's current star of the FB watch series
13:07
Speaker 1: Curse of Agacre, which is crazy in itself, but that's
13:11
Speaker 1: the whole other can of worms, Bobby Chacone, the Curse
13:14
Speaker 1: of Agacre. Didn't she just say two ninjas broke in
13:18
Speaker 1: and murdered Travis and she managed it to sneak away.
13:21
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, she also said she was nowhere
13:24
Speaker 1: near there, and with a straight face, because I've watched
13:27
Speaker 1: the interrogation many many times, she looks right at them
13:30
Speaker 1: and says, no, I wasn't there, and then suddenly the
13:33
Speaker 1: ninja story comes up. What happened? Bobby? Yeah, I think
13:36
Speaker 1: what she did was she her initial lie, you know,
13:39
Speaker 1: was to say I wasn't there. And if you couldn't
13:41
Speaker 1: excuse me, if you listen to that, if you listen
13:44
Speaker 1: to her response saying I wasn't anywhere near Mesa, that's
13:46
Speaker 1: not the way a normal person would respond. A normal
13:48
Speaker 1: person would say I was in San Diego, or I
13:50
Speaker 1: was in Redding, California, or I was in New York.
13:52
Speaker 1: They wouldn't automatically say I was nowhere near Mesa. This
13:56
Speaker 1: didn't sing herself already from it is a sign that
13:59
Speaker 1: she her mind is working to distance herself from that
14:03
Speaker 1: crime scene which she knows she was at. So that
14:05
Speaker 1: response in itself, not saying I was in Ridding or
14:09
Speaker 1: I was home with my grandparents in California, rather I
14:12
Speaker 1: was nowhere near Mesa, would indicate to me as an
14:15
Speaker 1: interrogator that she's lying. And then, so what happens is
14:18
Speaker 1: that's the initial response, I was nowhere near there. That's
14:20
Speaker 1: the initial lie in her mind. She probably starts already
14:23
Speaker 1: analyzing that, saying, there's somehow going to figure out that
14:26
Speaker 1: I was there. There's somehow going to prove be able
14:28
Speaker 1: to prove that I was at his house somehow, So
14:31
Speaker 1: she adjusts her lie on the flaw. Yeah, Bobby, didn't
14:33
Speaker 1: you notice? And they said the interrogator said, well, what
14:37
Speaker 1: if I could prove that you were there? There was
14:40
Speaker 1: a long pause. There was a very long pause, and
14:42
Speaker 1: I'm guarantee there's some rapid eye blinking right there. So
14:46
Speaker 1: what do you do as a defense lawyer when your client, Remember,
14:50
Speaker 1: the appeal is happening right now, The appeal is hanging
14:53
Speaker 1: in the balance in Arizona. What do you do with
14:56
Speaker 1: a client who first says I'm nowhere near it and
15:00
Speaker 1: then says there was a home invasion by ninjas. Where
15:04
Speaker 1: else can you go? Listen to kirk Nermy, the man himself,
15:08
Speaker 1: trying to dig his client out of the hole she
15:11
Speaker 1: dug with her own teeth. Something did happen in this
15:14
Speaker 1: moment of time. And the point of this, I think
15:17
Speaker 1: is what this evidence shows you is that either what
15:21
Speaker 1: happened is that Jody Airis defended herself and didn't know
15:25
Speaker 1: when to stop, or she gave in to a sudden
15:31
Speaker 1: heat of passion from a fight that began up in
15:34
Speaker 1: that bathroom, and that what she did she did under
15:39
Speaker 1: that sudden heat of passion. Demonstrative of that is this idea.
15:45
Speaker 1: She doesn't remember any of it. So what I'm saying
15:48
Speaker 1: to you, ladies and gentlemen, is, ultimately, if miss Arius
15:54
Speaker 1: is guilty of any crime at all, it is the
15:58
Speaker 1: crime of manslaughter. You're hearing kirk Nurmi trying to make
16:02
Speaker 1: a silk purse out of a cow's ear. He's got
16:05
Speaker 1: a client that he's got to defend. The judges ordered
16:10
Speaker 1: him to use all of his talents, all of his education,
16:14
Speaker 1: all of his expertise to defend jodi Arius. And he
16:18
Speaker 1: gets in the ring and he tries. So what do
16:21
Speaker 1: you do with the client that's given multiple stories, none
16:24
Speaker 1: of them can coincide with the other. Kirk Nurmi joining me,
16:30
Speaker 1: author of Trapped with miss Arius, a renowned defense attorney,
16:34
Speaker 1: defended Jodi Arius. I've told you the story before, Kirk.
16:37
Speaker 1: I had a judge, Judge Alverson, who would tell every jury,
16:41
Speaker 1: it is your duty to make all witnesses speak the truth,
16:44
Speaker 1: impugning perjury on no one. In other words, don't assume
16:48
Speaker 1: witnesses are a line because their story doesn't jeehoss with
16:52
Speaker 1: some other witness. Maybe they can both be telling the truth.
16:55
Speaker 1: Maybe at one had a different vantage point, Maybe one
17:00
Speaker 1: heard something the other one didn't, and the stories are
17:02
Speaker 1: slightly different. But Arias, really, her stories are so widely
17:06
Speaker 1: divergent there's no way to cobble them together to make
17:10
Speaker 1: a beautiful quilt. It ain't gonna happen. So you went
17:13
Speaker 1: with self defense. How difficult was it to represent Jody Arius? Well,
17:19
Speaker 1: it was very difficult. And in terms of we went
17:22
Speaker 1: with self defense. Remember the client guides the story. She
17:25
Speaker 1: has a six Amendment right to get on that stand.
17:27
Speaker 1: We saw her soaking up the media attention in that
17:31
Speaker 1: eighteen days, and she wanted to make the claim of
17:33
Speaker 1: self defense. But you know, since you can't prove that
17:38
Speaker 1: a lie like you were just explaining in your story,
17:41
Speaker 1: you have to let her get on the stand and
17:44
Speaker 1: say her piece because it is ultimately her life that
17:47
Speaker 1: is in jeopardy. Well, you're right about that. You cannot
17:51
Speaker 1: stop a client that wants to take the stand. Jo Scott, Morgan,
17:54
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jackson State University, author Blood Beneath My Feet
17:58
Speaker 1: on Amazon. Joe Scott, when you hear someone like Jody Arius,
18:06
Speaker 1: I just can't help but think that you're chomping at
18:08
Speaker 1: the bit because you know, somebody that talks that much
18:11
Speaker 1: has got to have left a trail of evidence a
18:14
Speaker 1: mile wide. Yeah, you're right, Nancy, And for her, she
18:19
Speaker 1: backtracked so many times and then offered these these alternatives,
18:24
Speaker 1: you know, the ninjas, all these sorts of things, and
18:26
Speaker 1: I think that you know, you kind of captured it
18:29
Speaker 1: there in the moment when she went to that pregnant
18:32
Speaker 1: pause where the police officer said, hey, listen, I can
18:36
Speaker 1: actually prove that you were there. You know, she's thinking
18:39
Speaker 1: in her mind, oh my god, have I stepped off
18:41
Speaker 1: into this thing? Because now, even if she doesn't know
18:45
Speaker 1: anything about forensics, she knows that she was there. And
18:48
Speaker 1: as our old friend Lecard said over a hundred years ago,
18:52
Speaker 1: every contact leaves a trace. She has left something behind
18:56
Speaker 1: at that scene that is physically going to tie her
18:59
Speaker 1: to that event, and not just that, as we find out,
19:03
Speaker 1: as the timeline goes on, there's this connectivity with her
19:06
Speaker 1: with these timelines, moving about buying gas cans and all
19:10
Speaker 1: these sorts of things that kind of tie her back
19:12
Speaker 1: to these events. It's a web that she just could
19:15
Speaker 1: not escape from. Prime stories with Nancy Grace, Well, there's
19:38
Speaker 1: a lot of forensics suggesting that I was, you know,
19:41
Speaker 1: in his house. Of the evidence that they prevent presented
19:46
Speaker 1: to me, I was asked the question, if you were
19:51
Speaker 1: presented this evidence and you were a third party, what
19:52
Speaker 1: would you think? And you know, I need to be
19:55
Speaker 1: honest in it. The evidence is very compelling, but it
20:00
Speaker 1: proves that I committed a murder. None of it proves
20:02
Speaker 1: that I committed a crime. What it does substantiate is
20:07
Speaker 1: what I did tell detectives. Did I have to ask
20:12
Speaker 1: you this. Did you kill Travis Holds? Absolutely not. Now,
20:15
Speaker 1: I had no part in it. Did he have any
20:19
Speaker 1: enemies at all? To my knowledge? Now he was. He
20:23
Speaker 1: had a strong personality, but he was very well liked
20:27
Speaker 1: and loved. Um. I just can't think of a single soul.
20:33
Speaker 1: So you had nothing to do with Travis und Alexander's
20:37
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, nothing what soever. She's adamant
20:42
Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with it. At this moment,
20:44
Speaker 1: her appeal hangs and the bounce. Oh oh wait, take
20:49
Speaker 1: a listen to this. You're the person who actually slid
20:53
Speaker 1: mister Alexander's throat from ear to ear. Yes, wait a minute,
21:03
Speaker 1: what alexas terrestchuk It's something wrong in my eye? Have
21:06
Speaker 1: bab because I just sort of say I had nothing
21:10
Speaker 1: to do with it, no part of it. And then
21:13
Speaker 1: did you slice his float? Yes, it just comes out
21:17
Speaker 1: alexas Terrestchak. Now, with all that in mind, you're telling
21:21
Speaker 1: me that some guy is visiting her behind bars and
21:24
Speaker 1: is in love with her. He is for years and years,
21:28
Speaker 1: and it's consistent. He spends his holidays with her. He
21:31
Speaker 1: was their Veterans Day. Now you get a day off
21:34
Speaker 1: from work to think the people that have saved our
21:36
Speaker 1: lives in our country. And he travels and spends from
21:40
Speaker 1: eight am to four pm in the prison with Jody
21:44
Speaker 1: and does this like and I believe according to your research,
21:48
Speaker 1: he also spent Labor Day with her. He did. Yeah,
21:51
Speaker 1: he spends holidays with her. Weekends too. He'll spend entire
21:54
Speaker 1: weekends throughout the months with her, a Saturday and a
21:57
Speaker 1: Sunday again eight am to four pm. One day. I
22:00
Speaker 1: think he got there at nine am. He's a little
22:02
Speaker 1: bit late that day, but he spends the entire day
22:05
Speaker 1: with her, the whole weekend. This on top of the
22:08
Speaker 1: fact that her appeal is very active at this moment.
22:12
Speaker 1: We're waiting to hear from the court. Now we learn
22:14
Speaker 1: in a headline that Jackie, thank you so much for
22:17
Speaker 1: lifting my spirits by giving me this headline. Jodi arias
22:21
Speaker 1: new artwork website is now launched and live. It starts
22:25
Speaker 1: like this Happy twenty twenty quick post to let you
22:28
Speaker 1: know Jody Jodie's new artwork website is now launched and
22:33
Speaker 1: live at art by Jodi Arias dot com. Be sure
22:36
Speaker 1: to check out everything that's available. Limited edition prints, original
22:40
Speaker 1: colored pencil pieces with an extensive archive section. I bet
22:46
Speaker 1: they are archive because you know nobody actually somebody is
22:49
Speaker 1: buying it. Now, a lot of it looks like she
22:52
Speaker 1: thumbs through and I'll have to go to you on this, doctor,
22:55
Speaker 1: Karen Start, a psychologists joining me from Manhattan at karenstart
22:59
Speaker 1: dot com. It looks to me like she thumbs through
23:01
Speaker 1: magazines and traces pictures and then colors them in. Now,
23:07
Speaker 1: I'm certainly no art credit. You know that about me,
23:09
Speaker 1: Karen Start. But I'm pretty sure she's tracing out of
23:14
Speaker 1: a magazine. But there's only people who are fascinated by
23:19
Speaker 1: the macabre, right Nancy. So they love the idea that
23:24
Speaker 1: because that's how you say that word. I've always wandered. No,
23:29
Speaker 1: wait a minute, but what is wrong? No offense? Bobby Chicoon,
23:33
Speaker 1: Kirk Nurmi and Joseph Scott Morgan? What is wrong with men? Like?
23:37
Speaker 1: There's not enough women? Jackie single people? Yep, she's raising
23:42
Speaker 1: both hands. What I'm saying is aren't there enough women
23:45
Speaker 1: on the outside? Do they have to go to a
23:47
Speaker 1: convicted killer that slides her last lover, well that I
23:51
Speaker 1: know of her last lover, throwt ear to ear? What why?
23:55
Speaker 1: What is wrong with them, Kara. They are tracted to
23:58
Speaker 1: the fact that she's notorious. That's the appeal. Nancy. Women
24:03
Speaker 1: do it too. Women write to men who have been
24:06
Speaker 1: in jail. Look at all the women that were in
24:09
Speaker 1: love with Ted Bundy. There's an appeal to these guys.
24:12
Speaker 1: They don't They don't want to believe that this beautiful
24:16
Speaker 1: women who can cry at the drop of a hat,
24:19
Speaker 1: actually is capable of murdering or anyway, she would not
24:24
Speaker 1: murder them. Maybe she would murder them. They don't understand
24:26
Speaker 1: in the mind of somebody who's a psychopath that this
24:30
Speaker 1: person can't love, that no one is real to them,
24:34
Speaker 1: and they find it extremely appealing. You know, Alexis Toschi.
24:38
Speaker 1: As much as I'd love to keep talking about Jodi
24:40
Speaker 1: Arias getting pregnant behind bars, can I ask you who
24:45
Speaker 1: are these people that publicized quote we are team Jody
24:50
Speaker 1: and we will with will underlined, we will be victorious.
24:56
Speaker 1: Who are these people? These are? This is the craziest thing.
25:00
Speaker 1: These people have been supporting Jody since the beginning. They
25:03
Speaker 1: are random, I mean, for lack of better words, they're
25:06
Speaker 1: random Internet trolls like you know, in the beginning, when
25:10
Speaker 1: Jody was going through the trial, they were raising money
25:12
Speaker 1: for her. They kind of figured out that you can't
25:14
Speaker 1: give money to a criminal and she can't profit off things.
25:19
Speaker 1: But they've raised money quote unquote for her defense and
25:23
Speaker 1: it's up to it like almost I think one hundred
25:26
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. It has really twindled lately though there were
25:29
Speaker 1: I think there were only eight hundred dollars in donations
25:32
Speaker 1: made in twenty nineteen. But these are people from all
25:34
Speaker 1: over the world that believe that Jody is innocent. They
25:39
Speaker 1: believe that what she did was in self defense because
25:42
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander was a pedophile and he wait who wa
25:45
Speaker 1: wa wa wa wa wait wait wait, Kurt Narmie, please
25:48
Speaker 1: help me because now my chest is hurting. Thanks Alexis
25:50
Speaker 1: for the chess pain. Kurt Narmy with me Arius's former
25:53
Speaker 1: lawyer or author of Trapped with miss Arius on Amazon
25:58
Speaker 1: Kirk when Alexis terress, Chuck Alexis, I'm afraid you just
26:07
Speaker 1: sold your soul to the devil by putting the name
26:09
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander in the same sentence with the pedophile Kirk,
26:16
Speaker 1: Was there ever evidence that substantial evidence that Travis Alexander
26:25
Speaker 1: had ever been a pedophile I mean, I know that
26:30
Speaker 1: I think some of his underwear had a superhero. I
26:32
Speaker 1: can't remember how it went now, but I thought that
26:35
Speaker 1: was really unfounded. Oh look, it goes back to what
26:40
Speaker 1: I said before. Look, you know, testimony is evidence, and
26:44
Speaker 1: a client, even irregardless of their attorney's advice, can go
26:48
Speaker 1: out and tell the story they want to tell unless
26:50
Speaker 1: that attorney can prove it wrong. So its ills advices.
26:54
Speaker 1: It might be miss Arius was able to present that
26:58
Speaker 1: argument despite a lack of actual evidence in favor of
27:03
Speaker 1: that in making that connection. Well, as a matter of fact,
27:06
Speaker 1: take a listen to this. Travis was not a pedophile.
27:10
Speaker 1: That was just a story that she was told to
27:12
Speaker 1: come up with that would help her in her defense
27:14
Speaker 1: for the murder of Travis. Her father never molest her,
27:18
Speaker 1: that her laid a hand on her sexually in any way.
27:20
Speaker 1: That was also just a story that she came up
27:23
Speaker 1: with that would hopefully help hands for murder and get
27:26
Speaker 1: her off of the charges. Jody never thought that she
27:29
Speaker 1: ever would have been charged with these charges because of
27:31
Speaker 1: those allegations. That's Fromwriter online dot Com speaking was Donovan
27:35
Speaker 1: bearing you know to you kirk Nermy I want to
27:38
Speaker 1: follow up and I don't even like talking about the
27:41
Speaker 1: fact that Travis Alexander was never a pedophile at all. Ever,
27:47
Speaker 1: that was a story fabricated by air Yes to try
27:50
Speaker 1: to help her defense, to get the focus off her
27:54
Speaker 1: and on him, the innocent victim. That's right, and that's
27:57
Speaker 1: far from the truth. As a matter of fact, we
27:59
Speaker 1: did every thing. I did everything I could to not
28:02
Speaker 1: have her advance that story. There was no evidence behind it.
28:05
Speaker 1: But miss Arius and we've talked a little bit about
28:08
Speaker 1: her being a sociopath and putting things forward. She has
28:12
Speaker 1: her way, she has her ideas, and that's what she's
28:15
Speaker 1: going to follow, regardless of the cost on humanity crime stories.
28:32
Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, when was the last time he saw Travis?
28:36
Speaker 1: Was it three days ago? Um? That do you guys
28:39
Speaker 1: were waking this off that? But I mean, satis, they
28:41
Speaker 1: want to know what m last time I saw him? Was?
28:45
Speaker 1: What part the last time Ember seen him? The last
28:49
Speaker 1: third day? MEI saw him last Tuesday, on our last Monday.
28:57
Speaker 1: She talked to him last Monday. Okay, and everyone is
29:01
Speaker 1: out of the house. There's no one else in the house. No,
29:03
Speaker 1: no one's in the house. And what is your name?
29:06
Speaker 1: My name is Michelle. Um, I need to ask a
29:09
Speaker 1: friend from being here. I'm giving the phone to me. Okay, Um, Hi,
29:13
Speaker 1: Hi business partner Okay, and this is okay. The hub
29:18
Speaker 1: is in his bedroom. Yeah, you were hearing part of
29:22
Speaker 1: the nine one one call made by Travis Alexander's friends
29:25
Speaker 1: when they had not seen or heard from him in days.
29:29
Speaker 1: I want you to hear the rest of that conversation. Listen. UM.
29:32
Speaker 1: I didn't go in, but from what I heard, his
29:34
Speaker 1: dreammate went in. They fled in his bedroom behind the door. Uh.
29:39
Speaker 1: And then he said it's all over. And then they
29:42
Speaker 1: went in the bathroom and heath in his shower. Ok.
29:46
Speaker 1: And his his um, his bedroom is where in the house.
29:52
Speaker 1: It's upstairs. Um. And if you go up the stairs,
29:56
Speaker 1: it's on the left. It's the first door on your left.
29:58
Speaker 1: It's the only door on your left. And um, and
30:02
Speaker 1: it's just a big master sweet s bedream Monday. And
30:12
Speaker 1: she's talking to his friend right now. And there's a
30:15
Speaker 1: girl that spends stocking him and see and she's trying
30:20
Speaker 1: and he's trying to Uh, you might know some information.
30:25
Speaker 1: I hope my phone doesn't die. My Emma on like
30:27
Speaker 1: one bar of statary Okay, Well, I'm just gonna keep
30:30
Speaker 1: you on the phone until officers are right be there.
30:31
Speaker 1: Officers are paramedics arrival. Okay, okay, I've been keeping hare
30:34
Speaker 1: of the soone Travis Alexander brutally murderred so many stab
30:42
Speaker 1: wounds they really couldn't be counted. Um somewhere between twenty
30:47
Speaker 1: seven and twenty nine stab wounds and then shot in
30:51
Speaker 1: the head, his body left to decay naked in his
30:54
Speaker 1: shower stall. I mean, I see, Grays, this is crime stories.
30:57
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us right now. Well, you
31:00
Speaker 1: are awaiting the outcome of a Jodi Aris appeal in
31:03
Speaker 1: Arizona with me Alexis Treschak Radar online dot com investigative
31:08
Speaker 1: reporter who has gone and done her homework and found
31:12
Speaker 1: out that Jodi Arius is actually having secret prison visits
31:16
Speaker 1: with her boyfriend, that convict to kill her, spending holidays
31:20
Speaker 1: and weekends with her old lover, and he travels to
31:24
Speaker 1: come and see her. Alexis, how far does he traveled
31:26
Speaker 1: to get to Arias on weekends? I believe he lives
31:29
Speaker 1: about four hours away, that it is a four hour
31:32
Speaker 1: drive each way for him, so he spends he must
31:35
Speaker 1: spend the night near the prison. But it is a
31:38
Speaker 1: very because he's there two days in a row. He
31:40
Speaker 1: never just comes for one day. He's there and you
31:42
Speaker 1: know who else he was just joined with. Jody has
31:45
Speaker 1: random visitors. She has these supporters that have been her
31:48
Speaker 1: friends for all these years. But her family had not
31:51
Speaker 1: visited her in a very long time. I've been I
31:54
Speaker 1: check on this, I report on this every quarter, really,
31:57
Speaker 1: and nobody from her family had visited her. All of
32:00
Speaker 1: a sudden, her mom and her sister and her brother
32:03
Speaker 1: visited her, and the boyfriend was there at the same time.
32:07
Speaker 1: Who knows. They maybe had a wedding behind Barlex terres
32:10
Speaker 1: Right now, the appeal is pending. Tell me about the
32:14
Speaker 1: appeal and the status of the appeal. So Jody has
32:17
Speaker 1: filed has some OA. Are you back on a first
32:20
Speaker 1: name basis with Jodi arias you calling her by Jody
32:23
Speaker 1: this and Jody that. What do you think she can
32:25
Speaker 1: invite you over for dinner when she gets out, or
32:27
Speaker 1: invite me to the prison because she had some fancy
32:29
Speaker 1: rost beef for Christmas dinner. Maybe she'll invite you to
32:32
Speaker 1: the wedding. But go ahead, plays I want to hear
32:34
Speaker 1: about the roast beef too, But go ahead. She has
32:37
Speaker 1: a new attorneys. They filed an appeal for her. What
32:40
Speaker 1: they are claiming is not that she didn't kill Travis Alexander,
32:44
Speaker 1: but that the prosecutor acted so poorly during the trial,
32:50
Speaker 1: and that because of that, it created a media circus,
32:53
Speaker 1: and the media circus unfairly influenced the trial. And they
32:59
Speaker 1: did not mention you by name, but they did talk.
33:02
Speaker 1: They were talking about you. Okay, wait a minute, I
33:04
Speaker 1: didn't know I was dragged into this. What do I
33:06
Speaker 1: have to do with it? It is all your fault.
33:09
Speaker 1: You were the one that you were there every single
33:11
Speaker 1: day making everybody in this whole in herr country care
33:13
Speaker 1: about this case, talking about it NonStop. Don't remember Jodi
33:16
Speaker 1: arias One gave you the finger and then also slit
33:19
Speaker 1: made this slid across her throat. Wait wait, wait, wait,
33:21
Speaker 1: I remember her shape. I remember her shooting a bird
33:24
Speaker 1: at me. If she slid her throat at me, I
33:29
Speaker 1: must have blocked it. Okay, maybe it scared me, alexis
33:32
Speaker 1: what I don't remember that part? Yeah, that happened. She
33:36
Speaker 1: made a motion like a cutting across her throat motion
33:38
Speaker 1: with her finger. Oh right, right, right now. You know,
33:43
Speaker 1: Kurt Nermie, if only that could have been brought in
33:47
Speaker 1: as a similar transaction. Okay, Kurt Nermie with me Aria's
33:51
Speaker 1: former defense attorney, Trapped with Miss Arias is his new book.
33:55
Speaker 1: You can find it on Amazon. Kurt Nermie, did you
33:58
Speaker 1: know your client gave me the thing you're during the trial?
34:00
Speaker 1: You know what? I'm sorry, Nancy, I had my focus
34:03
Speaker 1: on other things. But oh, I bet you did. Let
34:08
Speaker 1: me tell you. I mean, but what do you make
34:11
Speaker 1: of the lover visiting driving? Um? Okay, I just got
34:16
Speaker 1: to ask you, Kirk, did she ever come on to you?
34:20
Speaker 1: Don't lie to me. I know you're, you know, happily
34:23
Speaker 1: in your relationship and all that, But did she ever
34:26
Speaker 1: come on to you? Don't? Why do you know? Because
34:30
Speaker 1: because you know what, she has an innate ability. Hang
34:34
Speaker 1: on a minute, she has an innate ability to test
34:37
Speaker 1: the waters. She knows which she immediately senses, which men
34:42
Speaker 1: are subject to manipulation and which aren't. So she focuses
34:45
Speaker 1: on those that will drive four hours and spend the
34:49
Speaker 1: entire day in prison with her, and doesn't pay mind
34:53
Speaker 1: to those she knows who won't fall for that crack.
34:56
Speaker 1: I think you're trying to tell me she didn't. But
34:58
Speaker 1: you know, to Bobby Chicone joining me, former special agent FBI,
35:02
Speaker 1: current star of FBS series Curse of Aqacre, Bobby, come on,
35:08
Speaker 1: you know the deal. When you don't know a horse,
35:12
Speaker 1: look at her track record. That's how Areas operates. If
35:16
Speaker 1: she's got a man, she will turn him come hell
35:19
Speaker 1: or high water. Bobby, Yeah, I mean, that's one thing
35:21
Speaker 1: you do look at. I mean, obviously you can't bring
35:23
Speaker 1: it into a trials, but it's something that's that's you know,
35:26
Speaker 1: Germaine to an investigation. When we're looking at someone's background,
35:29
Speaker 1: whether they're capable of doing something like this or not
35:32
Speaker 1: as you thought. You look into the background, you look
35:34
Speaker 1: into their previous relationships. Do they have a pattern of
35:36
Speaker 1: behavior that could have carried forth into the current situation
35:40
Speaker 1: that we're investigating. So sure, all of that, and when
35:42
Speaker 1: you find somebody like this, usually when they're this level
35:46
Speaker 1: of crazy, they've had past relationships that have either been
35:50
Speaker 1: on this level or leading to this level. And so
35:53
Speaker 1: those types that you find ex boyfriends or ex girlfriends
35:56
Speaker 1: who are no longer in the picture but have said
35:58
Speaker 1: I ran away from that person astaf I could when
36:01
Speaker 1: this stuff started happening. So these patterns of people that
36:05
Speaker 1: are this obsessive, they're very hard to hide, and so
36:09
Speaker 1: oftentimes they're very obvious in the backgrounds, and then they
36:13
Speaker 1: lead you, and they can lead you to things in
36:15
Speaker 1: the current situation. That's why they're relevant to an investigation.
36:17
Speaker 1: Jety Arias can certainly point the finger listen. Three years
36:22
Speaker 1: into serving that life sentence, Areas is appealing to have
36:25
Speaker 1: the conviction overturned, alleging, among other things, prosecutorial misconduct and
36:30
Speaker 1: that the court's failure to control news coverage created a
36:34
Speaker 1: circus like atmosphere, which deprived her of the right to
36:37
Speaker 1: a fair trial. The appeal also alleges that certain TV personalities,
36:42
Speaker 1: like Nancy Grace, gave the trial a reality TV flavor.
36:46
Speaker 1: Grace reacting to that accusation on her Serious XM podcast
36:50
Speaker 1: Crime Stories on Friday, how can you get away from
36:53
Speaker 1: the fact that her own admission and her camera convicted her,
36:58
Speaker 1: not me or inybody else, And just days after her conviction,
37:02
Speaker 1: a defiant Arias speaking to ABC News, So you really
37:06
Speaker 1: are never going to tell the truth about what went
37:08
Speaker 1: on in the bathroom. I don't know what you mean
37:10
Speaker 1: by that, because I've told the truth. Okay, I didn't
37:15
Speaker 1: know that you were a hater when you came to
37:16
Speaker 1: interview me. Mmmmmmm. You're hearing from our friend Paula Ferris
37:20
Speaker 1: at ABC. It's everybody but Arius, but warning again, it
37:26
Speaker 1: ain't over yet. Stay tuned tomorrow for more of our
37:32
Speaker 1: conversation about Jodi Arias and the death of Travis Alexander
37:36
Speaker 1: Tomorrow on Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.